I’m not a Pete person,* but the effect of his candidacy on this kid (and millions of other kids we don’t see) is a wonderful thing:
It’s a big fucking deal that an openly gay person won a statewide contest for one of the two major party’s presidential nomination. That’s never happened before.
Sometimes I think we (Americans who aren’t homophobic assholes, I mean) should pay more attention to that. For all the dismissive talk about “identity politics” in some quarters, what it really comes down to is that people need to know their country values them as equal human beings who have as much right to participate in their democracy as anyone else. There is no default setting for “American,” or at least there shouldn’t be. Representation matters.
Open thread.
*If Buttigieg wins the nomination, I’ll become a Pete person so damned fast it’ll make my head spin.
Roger Moore
The surest sign that representation matters is that conservatives constantly flip out about it. If it weren’t advancing the interests of underrepresented people, they would focus their energy on something more consequential.
WaterGirl
Do we know what Chasten gave the 9-year-old boy? I heard something like “I’ll explain that later” before Chasten walked him off the stage.
taumaturgo
Now, to more pressing news: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article240476806.html
WaterGirl
I think Pete handled that well. I bet he wasn’t prepped for that question!
WaterGirl
@taumaturgo: on comment three of a new thread?
JPL
Now off to find some tissues.
TaMara (HFG)
I’m not #teamPete, but the best part of his campaign, with very few exceptions, his sexuality hasn’t been an issue. Saw the same thing with our Governor campaign when Polis won. It’s an amazing thing and great to see.
ByRookorbyCrook
Too often we say, ‘This is how it is supposed to be.” without celebrating the fact that we finally achieved something as a society. Take the win. We moved down the arc of justice a bit.
pamelabrown53
@JPL:
I know! I started tearing up while the question was read.
What a beautiful, powerful exchange. Thank you, Betty Cracker, for sharing it with us.
P.S. I loved how Mayor Pete began his answer by providing acknowledgement and encouragement of the kid’s bravery .
Brachiator
Too often, complaints about “identity politics” means that people should just shut up and assume that the default position in society is white people, and sometimes just the world as defined by presumably straight white males.
And it’s funny. Representation matters, but sometimes this also means acknowledgment of folks who have been there all along.
JanieM
Gee, I wonder why that made me cry.
— Signed, a gay person who grew up not knowing there was such a thing.
retiredeng
Gay and a veteran. Both refreshing.
germy
I’m Team Warren, but I liked Pete’s response to Rush Limbaugh’s mocking. Pete said “The likes of Rush Limbaugh” rather than just Rush. I liked the contempt Pete responded with
If he wins the nomination, he certainly has my vote.
mali muso
Ok, that was really lovely and it made me tear up. It’s refreshing to see something positive and affirming, amidst all of the ugliness of this primary season.
WaterGirl
@germy: I liked Pete’s answer to the question of what he would do if he won and the dumpster refused to leave the white house.
It was something like “well, if he’s willing to wash dishes, I guess we could work something out”.
Buttigieg is not my top candidate but I would be happy to have him as president.
satby
@WaterGirl: Chasten have him a challenge coin from the campaign. It’s given to supporters and campaign workers. It’s not for sale, but it also has the campaign “rules of the road” on the back (as seen in this T-shirt). Chasten is a teacher, and was initially rejected by his family for coming out, so he wanted to go talk to the parent probably (the kid’s mom was there).
patrick II
We have commented often on the effect of misogyny on the candidacy of Elizabeth Warren in both the primaries and the national presidential election. Are a majority of Americans ready to vote for a woman by a large enough margin (and in the right places — I’m looking at you Ohio, West Virginia) to beat the electoral college? Because of, I think, fear of being accused of homophobia, we don’t talk about Pete and whether a significant majority of Americans would vote for a gay person for president in a similar fashion. We know the Democrats who vote in primaries think highly of him, and I am proud of them. But do we think that will happen in general, with a broader, more moderate group of voters, or do we not mention it because we think he has no real chance of being the Democratic nominee anyway, and why raise moot uncomfortable questions?
germy
@WaterGirl:
I hadn’t heard that one. A good way to treat the current occupant: with sardonic contempt.
Balconesfault
Call me old-fashioned, but I don’t like 9 year old kids up on a stage talking about sexuality in any forum.
Betty Cracker
@WaterGirl: I heard about that too — it was a great answer.
satby
@WaterGirl: he speaks off the cuff most times when he’s not giving a speech. It’s funny to me that people think he’s so rehearsed when what he is is thoughtful and pretty grounded in his positions. And kind, which goes a long way.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Open thread (more or less)? I blogged about handling rejection mostly because I wanted to include the story of a guy who tried to desensitize himself to rejection by setting out to be rejected 100 times. Good for those out knocking on doors or phone banking.
germy
@Balconesfault: Not sure it’s so much about sexuality as it is about identity.
Don K
By the time I was 8 or 9 I knew I wasn’t like the other boys (I enjoyed seeing other guys naked and had crushes on lots of teenage male TV and movie stars), but I didn’t have a word for what I was feeling. I have a feeling these days I would tell myself, “Yeah, I’m gay”, and get on with life. It’s so refreshing that now gay boys (and young lesbians) can understand what they’re feeling and what it means.
Kent
One of the most heartwarming things about the Obama Administration was seeing all the young Black children who were so inspired and supported by having a Black president. I taught in highly diverse public schools in Texas during the entire 8 years of the Obama Administration and how meaningful it was to see a role model in the White House can’t be overstated
This stuff does matter immensely. Especially to the young.
dlw32
@Brachiator: Yeah, I keep wondering what Identity Politics means. All politics is about convincing voters that you’re with them. When a politician gets up and stumbles through some Bible verse that they clearly never read before their speechwriter gave them the page… that’s identity politics, right?
satby
@Balconesfault: the child asked for help and came up on the stage of his own volition. So your opinion is what, that if we just pretended 9 year olds can’t be in turmoil about their feelings that maybe that’s better?
Baud
@satby: He was excellent here.
mrmoshpotato
Drop down ad for Wisconsin outdoor wedding venues.
Who wants to get hitched tomorrow in 39-degree weather with 20mph winds?
germy
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I wish you’d been around when I was a young writer just starting out!
I read so many “advice for writers” books that were simply horrible. Hack jobs. Your blog is consistently good and valuable.
geg6
It is a very great thing for kids like this to see Pete and how seriously he is taken. I’m so happy they have this to look up to and realize they can aspire to anything.
Unfortunately, for all the young girls watching Elizabeth and Amy, they are getting a lesson in how little America values strong women. As if what happened to Hillary wasn’t disheartening enough, the fact that these women are being erased by both the media and too many voters is completely depressing.
Baud
@Brachiator:
Projection.
pamelabrown53
@JanieM:
I grew up in a small town in Ohio. When I reached puberty, I found that boys really liked me…got lots of attention. Hell, it never occurred to me to recognize the fact that the deep connections and attractions I felt for women required examination.
After 2 husbands, 2 sons I finally figured out why I was such a failure in hetero relationships. I was in my early 40’s! Thankful for all those who were courageous enough to be out and proud for lighting the path.
Betty Cracker
@Balconesfault: I remember back in the day people would say, I’m all for equality, but why do I have to hear about so-sand-so’s sexuality? Why do they have to be in my face about it?
But it’s not just about “sexuality” in the sense of who does what to whom. We (as a society) make so many assumptions based on the male-female paradigm. I bet that kid has already been asked a thousand times (by well-meaning relatives) if he has a girlfriend.
germy
@geg6:
Sad but true. But they’re also getting a lesson in persistence and courage from Warren and Klobuchar. And I’m still hoping Warren rises to the top.
satby
@germy: @Don K: of course it’s about identity and a nine year old is old enough to understand that they’re maybe feeling different than society tells them they should be.
Gravenstone
@mrmoshpotato: Put on your blaze orange, and you’re all set!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@mrmoshpotato: I’m sure you could get the venue for a pretty cheap price.
trollhattan
That is really moving, thanks for posting it. His interaction with the boy reminded me of how Obama can connect with an individual in a public forum, in a compelling way that makes the other person feel truly heard. Not many have this ability, and I applaud Mayor Pete here.
Literally just returned from dropping off my (CA) ballot at a voter center. I chose a museum because it’s fun to see school kids around while committing a civic act. It’s a good reminder.
I
pulled the leverfilled the oval for Foe of Megabanks and Hedge Funds, Wielder of Flamethrowers, Slayer of Bloombergs, SP Warren. Nothing coming out of our first three states has changed my opinion that she is the best, by a damn good margin. Stood pat on my city councilman, state assemblyman and US House rep. Some of those initiatives though, oye, who can say whether this or that bond issue is the best way to fund X or Z?JanieM
@pamelabrown53:
So did I. :-)
Betty Cracker
@geg6: True. It’s thoroughly depressing for me too. I’m starting to think I’ll never see a woman elected president of the United States.
Mnemosyne
@patrick II:
Ironically, I think that societal misogyny means that some people would still vote for Pete over a woman — he may not be using that peni$ in a way that they approve of, but at least he has one. I still think that was the motive of some of the Obama-to-Trump voters: it was more important that the president be a man than anything else, even his race.
Brachiator
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
A former co-worker who was a master salesman once said he learned to shrug off the “no, no, no” and enjoy the “yes” when it happened. He also loved persuading someone to “yes.”
And tangentially, this may relate to the thread in that more openness about gay, lesbian, and transgender issues means that people can know that there may be a “Yes” in the world for them.
WaterGirl
@satby: I wondered if it was a challenge coin. I only saw Chasten for just a minute, but I like that he’s dressed like himself and doesn’t feel the need to wear a suit.
satby
Absolutely this. And little girls the same age have been asked about boyfriends and told “young ladies don’t do (whatever) just as frequently. The norms start getting slapped onto them before they’re a born now, thanks to gender reveal parties.
JanieM
@Betty Cracker:
I wish this were just a walk down memory lane, but there’s still plenty of this attitude to contend with.
So — I’ll get out of their face if they’ll get out of mine. Get the wedding announcements out of the local paper. Get the pictures of your perfect family headed by a heterosexual couple off your desk at work where I have to see them. Stop holding hands with your opposite-sex partner in the public park. Forbid romcoms about straight people. Etc. etc. etc.
Straight people’s sexuality floods the world. Fuck ’em if they don’t want to see evidence of mine.
Mnemosyne
And, yes, representation ABSOLUTELY matters. This is what RWA is battling over right now — who gets to be at the center of a romantic story? Who are the gatekeepers who decide that: publishers, editors, or readers?
germy
Conservative thought leader shares his thoughts:
Baud
@geg6: Agree.
satby
@Baud: watch his interviews, he’s excellent a lot of places. My primary in IN is May 5th, so my primary vote won’t really matter by then, but Liz or Pete. Happy warriors is what I want to vote for.
Baud
@germy:
“If we’re not horrible people, Jesus will have died for nothing.”
WaterGirl
@satby: I pretty much share your view about Pete Buttigieg and I wasn’t intending to imply that Pete speaks in platitudes (blah-blah-blah… the stuff people like to repeat when they have never given him a chance).
There are things to be concerned about with Buttigieg, as with all our candidates, but when I hear stuff like it just tells me the person has dismissed Pete out of hand without doing anything more than perhaps watch him in a couple of debates.
I am Team Warren at this point, but I would be happy with Pete. Or Biden (except for his age).
Betty Cracker
@satby: Yep. My sister is gay, so I had a ringside seat to how early the “othering” starts and how pervasive it is in every facet of life, things that would have flown right over my head otherwise since I randomly happened to land in the socially approved category.
Baud
@satby:
I should. I’ve gotten to a place where I am avoiding the primary, even though I know for a fact that watching any of the Dem candidates directly is much more inspiring than catching snippits filtered through the media and social media.
WaterGirl
@mrmoshpotato: My down coat would not go well with the wedding gown, so I’m out.
germy
@Baud: I’m doing my part.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I’ve been impressed by how little it’s mattered to Ds that Mayor Pete is gay. The world has changed a lot in a very short time.
Race and gender attitudes seem to be slower.
balconesfault
Not faulting Pete for meeting the boy or how he fielded the question. I just don’t like the rapid acceleration of it into our national narrative.
FWIW, I also don’t like Honey Boo Boo, or the Little League World Series having national TV coverage. It bothers me a lot to have pre-teens shoved into our mass media world, unless they’re locked in cages and we’re trying to shame the government into letting them out.
pamelabrown53
@Balconesfault:
Okay. You’re “old fashioned”. What, IYO, is the “proper” age for a child to speak their mind? to be fearless enough to ask pertinent questions?
Maybe your problem is limiting attraction to only sexual acts.
Kent
I would put it slightly differently. Trump is a uniquely unpopular President at a time when the economy and world is basically doing OK. If the Democrats put up a traditional mainstream sort of candidate (generic Democrat) then the election becomes largely about Trump.
On the other hands, if the Democrats put forward an unconventional candidate of any sort we make it into more of a “choice” election between two poles. Trump vs a young gay man. Trump vs an old Socialist. Trump vs a woman, etc. etc. I’m not arguing it is wrong to do so. But there is no getting around the fact that doing so will dramatically change the course of the election for better or worse depending on the type of “choice” we are presenting to the Nation.
In the end, political talent generally trumps a lot of other factors. Bill Clinton and Barak Obama (and yes…Trump) were rare political talents. Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney, John McCain, and John Kerry were not. It makes a difference.
At this point I’m starting to think that the best course forward is going to have to be some kind of unity ticket emerging out of a brokered convention. If Sanders walks into Milwaukee with say 45% of the delegates and is forced to take a more moderate mainstream dem VP like Klobuchar or Harris or Booker than going full lefty like he might if he had the nomination locked up.
Betty Cracker
@JanieM: You explained it better than I did. Thank you!
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
If Pete becomes a serious challenger, the anti-gay nonsense will erupt with a fury. To the most despicable sexists, a gay man is even worse than a woman.
Jamey
Pete’s gay?! When did this happen?
satby
@germy: @Baud: Graham has to go the “we’re all sinners” route because he has no other defense to respond with.
Stephen Colbert called it way back on his old show.
Kent
Every white family has someone gay in their immediate circle. But they don’t all have someone black or Hispanic. That’s my guess.
gvg
@germy: I haven’t paid much attention to him, so I hadn’t known he was senile now. What the heck is that even supposed to mean?
Redshift
@Baud: I wouldn’t call it projection exactly. Almost all straight white males have the experience that we’re just people, and everyone who isn’t is some particular kind of person. Being the default and having everything structured to fit you doesn’t feel like an identity, it just feels like the background to everything. That’s why assholes asking “why don’t we have white history month” seem so crassly racist, because being white isn’t that kind of thing.
White, Christian, male, those are absolutely identities, and appealing to them is identity politics. But that’s something people have to learn, whereas every other identity is something you know from early on because your treated as that, not just as a person.
satby
Homophobia is misogyny on steroids. A man “acting like a woman”!
Kent
It’s already a huge fucking deal in the right wing evangelical world. I’m on some religious forums just to keep track of that sort of thing (and my own extended family who are fundies) and it is one of the signs of the apocalypse to hear some of them. It’s like abortion. Just one more reason for the right wing fundies to vote GOP. But they were already lost anyway. The real question is how many persuadable voters will be affected by it. I don’t have an answer for that.
Mnemosyne
@JanieM:
I still sometimes catch myself doing a double-take if I see a same-sex couple holding hands in public — I’m 50 years old and bad habits die hard — but I try to follow it up with a friendly smile and approving nod if caught. ?♀️
satby
@Betty Cracker: a woman was elected, but a confluence of ratfuckery robbed her of her win. It will happen again.
Morzer
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bernie-sanders-campaign-russia-bots-trolls-bros-2020-election-a9352026.html
wjs
@trollhattan: That Bill Clinton guy was the best ever at exactly that sort of thing. He obliterated his opponents because he was so good at it.
Baud
Speaking of watching change happen, has anyone observed a significant uptick in ads for consumer goods featuring interracial and gay couples and families? I don’t watch as much TV as I used to, but the last 5 years or so seem to have experienced a sea change in what has been a traditionally “conservative” space.
satby
@Kent: how many Balloon-Juicers are affected by it? Buttigieg is second in delegate count, but is mostly treated like a non-entity here. Isn’t that interesting?
TBH, I never thought he’d get this far, but any other candidate currently in second place would get a bit more commentary normally, I would have thought.
Kent
@satby:@Betty Cracker:
Yes, it will happen again. Stacey Abrams, Andrew Gilliam, Al Gore, etc.
patrick II
@Kent:
That is a very thoughtful answer. Thank you.
geg6
@Brachiator:
Not in my experience. Having a penis is the most important factor, I have found. No penis, no brains, no agency, no way they would vote for her. I’ve seen it in action. Now, I realize correlation is not causation and this is purely anecdotal, but it is my experience with that situation.
Cacti
I’d like to think such a thing is possible. But given all past behavior by the “revolution”, I doubt its likelihood very much.
JanieM
@Mnemosyne: I’m well acquainted with bad/old habits. The traces of yesteryear’s knee-jerk reactions may never entirely go away (although sometimes they seem to…and thank the FSM for that). I feel like I just have to keep cultivating self-awareness and taking responsibility for my actual choices out in the world.
I’m finding challenges in relation to gender/trans politics these days. Twenty years ago I was talking about gender in ways that most people I knew found incomprehensible. (No one in my world had ever heard of Jan Morris or Kate Bornstein, for example, and Jenny Boylan hadn’t even gotten started yet.) The advance guard of the culture has since then leaped over me, to the point where I’m kind of afraid to open my mouth for fear of being shouted at. But then, I’m 70. So maybe that’s the natural order of things.
patrick II
@Mnemosyne:
I sometimes have the same thought. Any man will do. The Evangelicals will go nuts though.
Yutsano
@Baud: It’s almost like Madison Avenue figured out there are more people in this country with money than just white straight males!
I’m not making fun of you here. It’s a fantastic development.
On the main subject: I was Team Harris and am now Team Warren. But damn if I ain’t proud to have a fellow queer taking a shot.
Mnemosyne
@Baud:
I’m so old that I remember going on a trip to Hawaii when I was 16 and being shocked that the local commercials featured INTERRACIAL COUPLES! It was quite the eye-opener for a sheltered suburban white girl from the Midwest.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: No. I’m stockpiling Bob’s Burgers, and it’s not baseball season yet.
ETA – And The Good Place is finished ?, but it was a great ending ?.
Baud
@satby:
FWIW, I think with BJ, it’s mostly about his perceived policy stances. May not be fair, but I don’t think it’s related to his sexual orientation.
balconesfault
@Morzer: As I’ve said elsewhere – there’s a core group of Bernie supporters which can best be understood by reading the Bacchae.
Morzer
@balconesfault:
I could see Putin as Dionysus and Sanders as Pentheus.
Kent
@Morzer: And who wrote that anti-Bernie article? Andrew Feinberg. Who is Andrew Feinberg you ask? From his Wiki page:
And what is Sputnik News?
How about a little more filtering before posting that sort of Russian agit-prop here? I’m not a Bernie fan, to the contrary. But I can smell bullshit when I see it.
Gravenstone
@Morzer: They saw it work for Trump, so why not try it themselves?
pamelabrown53
@satby:
“Homophobia is misogyny on steroids”. Agree a million %!
The idea of 2 women having sex is a turn-on for many men: they can imagine themselves in the middle and/or the woman just haven’t experienced their penis.
Makes me wonder if lesbians have a better crack at higher offices at this stage of our white man’s male world view.
trollhattan
@wjs:
Agree, when Big Dog was on his top game he was amazingly effective, like nobody in my lifetime. He’s got a bit of the magic still, but the years have taken their toll too. Hard to believe he took office twenty-seven years ago!
Aardvark Cheeselog
@dlw32: It is truly an ill-thought-out accusation. As if there were any kind of politics other than “identity” politics. The same phenomenon as decrying “social justice” warriors: all justice is “social” (try for an instant to envision what “asocial justice” might consist of).
These are words used by people who want to appear sophisticated without going to the trouble of acquiring any sophistication, who then think they have won arguments when all they accomplished was to prevent conversations from happening.
satby
@Baud: his policy stances are left of center regular Democratic ones. It’s ridiculous when people imply he’s Republican lite.
Kent
WTF do I know. On the other hand, there is only one person who has to make that decision. And it isn’t his underlings. If Bernie is sitting there in the convention short of the number of votes needed and he can get over the finish line by taking a moderate VP I think there is a good chance he would do it. None of the Bernie bots are going abandon the ticket because of the VP choice. And if it brings him closer to the White House……
Because otherwise, the unity ticket becomes Elizabeth Warren.
Mary G
Pete’s husband Chasten is one of the best things about him. It’s a process for the world to accept change, but it’s proceeding. If you’d told me ten years ago, when President Obama was at least theoretically against same sex marriage, that we would have an out gay man and two women in the top six in this primary, I wouldn’t have believed it. Of course, I wouldn’t have believed that Twitler would be president, either. Nothing grows in a straight line.
FelonyGovt
As the parent of a gay daughter who says she knew from the time she was 5 that she was different. I’m so thrilled to see this.
Morzer
@Kent: Sure, sure. It’s all Russian agit-prop. Whatever floats your boat.
Elizabelle
@geg6: Representation. Except for women. Le sigh.
It is time for a woman. Past time.
Kent
@Morzer: Surely you can find stories about chaos in the Bernie campaign that isn’t coming from Kremlin mouthpieces? I mean, if it is really true? There are only about 5 thousand reporters following the campaign at this point.
Mnemosyne
@WaterGirl:
I still feel that Pete is too young and inexperienced politically to be president, but I think he has a bright future as a Democrat.
Sister Golden Bear
@Roger Moore:
Exactly. Aside from outright intending to hurt us, the 260+ state/federal bills this past year targeting LGBTQ people are very intentionally designed to eradicate (not a word I use lightly) us from public life.
Both to protect their snowflake sensitivities, but also very explicitly to prevent LGBTQ folks—and LGBTQ kids in particular—from seeing that people like themselves exist.
delk
@FelonyGovt: I knew as far back as I can remember.
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
I don’t disagree. But there are also misogynists who will vote for any man over any woman. There aren’t a huge number of them but, as we saw in 2016, you need fewer than 80,000 of them in four states to tip the election.
Morzer
@Kent: Surely you can manage to do some factual refutation? If all you’ve got is screams of “Kremlin mouthpiece”, that’s laughable.
Mnemosyne
@Morzer:
They can’t get over the fact that Hillary beat them. They can go cry about it.
Cacti
@satby: I can only speak for myself, but apart from youth and inexperience, the reason I doubted Pete’s ability to make a deep primary run is his lack of appeal to non-white voters.
I think IA and NH represented peak Pete, and that he will fizzle out in more diverse states, starting with NV.
OTOH, given her performance in NV, I don’t understand why Klobuchar is staying in the race at all.
Betty Cracker
Description of the Weinstein perp walk:
Mnemosyne
@Kent:
If you follow Bernie’s campaign staffers on Twitter, you can watch the chaos for yourself in real time. It’s not for the faint of heart, though.
Morzer
@Mnemosyne: Apparently Bloomberg is going to start hitting Shouty Heart Bern with some new ads. Can’t happen soon enough.
geg6
@Mnemosyne:
Completely agree. Not interested in him being president right now. Maybe he should run for congress or senate. Or governor. Or something more than mayor of a city the size of which is a third of my city and would be barely a neighborhood of the big ones, like Atlanta, New York, LA or Chicago.
chopper
@germy:
well, god created the universe and trump is part of the universe. game set and match, libtards!
mrmoshpotato
@geg6: Makes me wonder how many people live in my neighborhood.
Morzer
@Betty Cracker: How long before Trump goes on a crazy rant about how Weinstein is innocent?
Cacti
@Morzer: Wilmer is actually in an unusual spot right now.
His blowing a kiss at the ghost of Fidel Castro on prime time TV earned him his first real negative coverage in his 5-years of running for President.
If no challenger can make hay out of that, they have no business running.
tam1MI
Great news everybody! Bloomberg is making ad buys to after the Asshole from Vermont! I may not have to leave the top of the ballot blank in November after all!
Baud
@chopper:
Bad trade off.
FelonyGovt
@Cacti: That was so breathtakingly stupid. Good luck winning Florida.
Baud
@Morzer:
@tam1MI:
Maybe I’ll go to the Bloomberg news website and turn off my ad blocker to help contribute some spare change to the effort.
Kent
I would have him slotted for Secretary of Commerce in the next Democratic administration. Commerce is actually the most high-tech agency in the Federal government and also contains the lead science agency on climate change (NOAA). Also the Census and Patent Office. It’s the perfect place for a younger technocratic type leader such as Buttigieg.
Economic Development Administration
Census Bureau
Bureau of Economic Analysis
International Trade and Investment Administration
Bureau of Industry and Security
Minority Business Development Agency
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
Patent and Trademark Office
National Institute of Standards and Technology
National Telecommunications and Information Administration
mrmoshpotato
@tam1MI: Obligatory
Betty Cracker
@Mnemosyne: That’s a legit issue with Sanders, IMO: he hires toxic people. His press secretary is not only incompetent at her job, as we’ve seen recently, she unleashed unhinged Twitter hordes to dox random people on Twitter. That said, Kent has a point about the source. I believe the accusations I’ve seen with my own eyes but distrust the Sputnik reporter’s alleged sources and suppositions until they’re verified by someone who hasn’t knowingly worked for a Kremlin agit-prop outlet.
gsp
Thank you for pointing that out. It is pretty damn big. Don’t like the guy but damn, so very important what he has done.
trollhattan
@Cacti:
He what now?
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Agree. It’s how I feel about the Intercept and the NYT domestic political desk.
Jaleh
@WaterGirl: I love Mayor Pete. I would love to see him as our President. However, I am not going to vote for him in the primary because I think we live in a backward country and not ready for someone who is this brilliant because…
Mary G
Markets dive with Dow down -1,031.61 / -3.56%.
Cacti
Congressional Dems in Florida have already denounced it in the harshest terms.
satby
@geg6: his run was initially to improve his name recognition for a run for governor, but damned if he didn’t exceed all expectations. And when contrasted with the more “experienced” candidates he beat, it seems the former Mayor has some very good executive skills. But the sniffy dismissal from so many people may play a part in why he keeps exceeding those expectations.
Morzer
@Betty Cracker: The Independent is not Sputnik. It’s a well-respected British newspaper, owned by someone who is very much anti-Putin.
Cacti
@trollhattan: 60 minutes, last night. Train wreck.
Geminid
Two observations: 1) I recognize that male homosexuality can sometimes make me uncomfortable. But I also recognize that this a problem with me, not gay men. 2) when I hear conservatives decry “identity politics” it is almost always a poorly disguised effort to play “identity politics.”
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
Mentioned over at LGM that he needs to take his prop walker along, because you can make hundreds of shanks from it. Win the day, Harv.
geg6
@mrmoshpotato:
Well, if you live in NYC, it’s over 26,000 people per square mile. Less than four square miles in NYC pretty much equals the population of Bloomington.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Betty Cracker:
I’d go with Kay’s formulation “low quality hires”.
Mandalay
@satby:
I don’t come here much these days, but my impression is that over the past few weeks there are more posts here on BJ attacking Sanders, than there are posts saying anything at all about all the other Democratic candidates combined.
Even this thread has it: an article from Sputnik dutifully reposted here without any comment from the poster. Even if you loathe Sanders doesn’t it get a wee bit fucking boring after a while?
Bex
Love is love.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
The New York Times is garbage, I heard that here.
Morzer
@Betty Cracker:
And then there’s the rather recent story of how the Bernie trolls went after Lindy Li (with some help from Glenn Greenwald):
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/02/inside-bernie-biden-twitter-troll-war-lyndi-li
sdhays
@germy: Is this the Onion?
Morzer
@Mandalay: The article was from the Independent. Not that anyone bothered to check the facts after the local conspiracy theorist started a false claim running.
geg6
@Mandalay:
Checks boredom level…nope. No, it never gets old bashing that asshole. Never.
Baud
@Cacti:
Yeah, it was not quite “Sure, Hitler is bad but the timelines of the trains is excellent,” but it had that feel.
satby
@Kent: yeah, he’d be a good fit in a lot of positions, so I hope the next Democratic president picks him for a Cabinet position.
But I’ll miss seeing Chasten and Pete at the farmers market ?. He’s a great guy, and the country needs great people back in government service.
Betty Cracker
@Morzer: Yeah, but the reporter worked for Sputnik. Maybe he’s legit, but that makes me wonder.
PS: Biden is out with a new ad (YouTube link) that every Sanders hater is sure to LOVE! :)
Redshift
@Morzer:
I’m no Bernie fan, but that’s bullshit. Anonymously-sourced allegations from a source who’s worked for a propaganda outlet area not established facts that must be refuted with facts. Even without that angle, a Maureen Dowd column, for example, doesn’t demand factual refutation.
It could be true, it could be exaggerated, it could be false. This primary and election are going to be filled with disinformation to cause chaos and infighting. We all need to be skeptical of reports that seem to confirm what we want to believe.
The Dangerman
@Mnemosyne:
I’m not sure about the young thing as I haven’t a clue of his age, but I would agree with everything else.
PB strikes me like vanilla ice cream strikes me; now, I like vanilla as much as the next ice cream lover (and, really, there is no such thing as bad ice cream), but ice cream needs a few sprinkles and some pistachios or some similar ingredient to make it interesting.
The fact that his sexuality doesn’t strike people as all that interesting of an “ingredient” is a sign of progress.
satby
@Baud: here’s something to start you off, and as usual with our shitty news media, it’s a comedian who asks a thoughtful question.
Amir Khalid
EPL nailbiter at Anfield. Liverpool have had to come back from behind to lead visitors West Ham 3-2. Sadio Mane may have scored a fourth — but no, he’s been ruled offside. Four minutes to go.
ETA: Five minutes of injury time announced. Squeaky Bum time.
geg6
@The Dangerman:
All of 37 years. I’m not a big fan of the old white guys, but the young white guy is a bit too young for my taste. I’m a woman and we mature, emotionally and intellectually, faster than men (I know I sure did) and I didn’t know shit at 37.
trollhattan
@geg6:
Come sit by me. ;-)
Ruckus
@pamelabrown53:
Sounds about like my sister, a little earlier and only one kid but I think that was because she got out of the house at 17 to go away to college. Her first gay relationship in her late 20s became a very good friend of mine for over 40 yrs, till she passed away 3 yrs ago.
I am so lucky for so many of the people I’ve met over all these decades. They have been gay, straight, all skin colors, dozens of countries, dozens of different languages, cultures, even walks of life, shades of health, but the one thing they have in common is respect for other people and their commonalities and differences.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@The Dangerman:
He’s 38.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@trollhattan: I think we’re gonna need a bigger sofa.
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
Absolutely. Past time.
Ruckus
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
No kidding!
MisterForkbeard
@Betty Cracker: This is something I keep coming back to that makes me worry about him. Sanders doesn’t just hire toxic people, he hires bad people. They exemplify everything I dislike about The Left and none of the good things – and it shows Sanders is a hypocrite to me, because he keeps these people and they keep doing their thing and he does the “I’m SHOCKED there’s gambling in this establishment” routine.
I could deal with that easily if I thought it might actually work in the General. But he’s not getting the presumption of innocence or general handholding he’s been getting during the primaries, so he’s already starting to fall down a bit.
Mnemosyne
@Betty Cracker:
Ah, yes, knowing that definitely puts a different spin on the piece. ?
satby
@geg6: oh, he meets the constitutional requirements. And it’s not all that unusual in other, more enlightened parts of the world.
Jacinda Kate Laurell Ardern is a New Zealand politician serving as the 40th Prime Minister of New Zealand since 26 October 2017. She has also served as the Leader of the Labour Party since 1 August 2017. Elected at age 37.
The incumbent Prime Minister is Sanna Marin of the Social Democratic Party. Marin was sworn in on 10 December 2019 and at 34, she became the world’s youngest serving state leader and the youngest Prime Minister in Finland’s history.[2]
mrmoshpotato
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
@trollhattan:
@geg6: I’ll bring my own recliner. What aspect of Pouty the Shouty Soviet are we groaning about today?
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
I agree with this.
Maybe now some might see that a dick is just a dick (unless it’s a Nixon) and not an organ with any ability to think, speak or act. Especially logically or rationally.
zhena gogolia
@Betty Cracker:
Very nice, thank you!
Brachiator
@Cacti:
What was the episode about?
satby
@satby: in fact, a huge number of countries have leaders around that age. Maybe we should pay attention.
senyordave
He was served up a softball to repudiate his past positive comments about Castro and he doubled down! Can someone remind Bernie that he is supposed to tank the election AFTER he was the candidate?
MJS
@Baud: Bernie appears incapable of admitting a mistake. It wouldn’t have been hard, at all, to simply indicate, “I don’t believe that anymore.” But he had to make sure that everyone understood that his central point was correct.
Amir Khalid
@Amir Khalid: Liverpool squeak through. The bid for an invincible season, the home winning streak, etc conrinue. But it was close to being West Ham manager David Moyes’ career-first win over Liverpool at Anfield. (He spent many years as manager of Everton, the not-red club in the city of Liverpool.)
satby
@Brachiator: Sanders interview.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: Needed that 4 months ago.
Amir Khalid
@MJS:
One of Wilmer’s many failings. A person who cannot admit error lacks the character required of a POTUS.
Brachiator
@MisterForkbeard:
He is much like Trump in this regard.
japa21
@Betty Cracker: I expect we’ll hear more on that tomorrow night. Would be a major point in SC.
Also, I hope someone (preferably Biden or Warren) makes the point about down ticket races, specially Senate and House. Again, a major point in SC. With Bernie, there would be no chance Graham could be beaten. With Biden and possibly Warren, there would be a chance (long shot yes). Same goes for KY.
Not to mention AZ, CO, ME, IA, GA and others where there are legitimate chances for pickups.
Ruckus
@JanieM:
You sound like a number of people I know. One, the first time I met him, showed up at my friend’s house I wrote about above for the 4th of July. He’s a businessman, wears 3 piece suits in this day and age and I opened the door and he’s in a flag print tank top and shorts. It was enough of an outfit and my friends being gay told me he most likely was. I was right. Fun day was had by all. Next 4th of July he walked in in the same outfit and gave me a big hug. A fun day was had by all once again. He’s one of the people who have made me like life, for all it’s worth and even for sometimes when it sucks. I’m extremely glad I got to met him, he’s made my life better.
Ruckus
@germy:
One thought for Franklin Graham.
FUCK YOU, you fucking asshole.
Amir Khalid
Liverpool have 79 points from 27 English Premier League matches this season — of which they have won 26 and drawn one, dropping just two points. When Liverpool last won a top-flight title, it was the First Division in 1990, before the EPL era. And their winning points total that season was … 79.
trollhattan
@Amir Khalid:
Luckily we’ll never make that mistake.
Cacti
@satby: With all due respect to the nation states of New Zealand and Finland, the weight of responsibility that comes with the office of POTUS is several orders of magnitude greater than the Prime Minister’s office in other of those nations.
There are 22 individual US states with a larger population than Finland, and 25 larger than New Zealand.
LongHairedWeirdo
Hee! I’d put it as “once Buttigieg wins the nomination, I’ll already *be* a Pete person, so much so, I’ll memorize his last name’s spelling, so I always get it right!”
(I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and you might be surprised at how hard it is to remember “two Ts, one I, then g, i-before-e, g.” It becomes Buttiegig, Buttigeig, etc. I know his name if I see it, and I even saw it, and *knew* it was spelled wrong – but for some reason, I’ll never be one of those people who can “see” the word, and recite the letters.)
Betty Cracker
@japa21: My guess is Warren hangs back and lets the 3Bs pummel Sanders.
Kent
The Castro stuff is stupid. But seriously. Fidel Castro died 4 years ago and hadn’t been in power since 2011. Why are we still debating Castro?
Ruckus
@Jamey:
It was before last week. Can’t be more specific than that.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@mrmoshpotato: What, too good for the couch with the rest of us?
The Dangerman
@Kent:
Oh, we are just getting started with the stuff that happens when someone is pushing 80 and running for President; we’ll get to the Soviet Union stuff soon and the SU disappeared almost 30 years ago.
Cacti
Because the erstwhile Democratic frontrunner has a 5-decade history of going weak at the knees for Marxist strongmen, which all of his competitors intentionally ignored until now.
Immanentize
@Kent:
Older Florida voters who live near Ronald Reagan Blvd. in Little Havana. And Hialeah. Duh. And last I looked, Raul was still the Boss.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Immanentize:
I thought Bruce was The Boss.
Ruckus
@satby:
I watched your Colbert clip and it was good.
But.
Next up in the rotation was this delight. Yes it’s not that time of year yet but it was worth it.
Immanentize
@?BillinGlendaleCA: That is exactly why Cuba is still an issue — they refuse to accept Springsteen!
Brachiator
@Cacti:
Wait. Are we talking about Trump again?
MJS
@Kent: Because it’s an issue in Florida, and regardless of who the nominee is, they can’t afford to simply write off so many electoral votes. Even if the nominee ultimately doesn’t win there, we need Trump to have to spend money and time there. Also, as I indicated above, Bernie can’t admit a mistake, and that’s only going to become more apparent. He’s been in the public eye for a long time, so there’s a lot of video and audio of him saying less than helpful things out there.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Immanentize: Amir’s gonna have a problem with that.
J R in WV
@WaterGirl:
There’s a reason I pied taumaturgo about the third time I saw his comments…. I got down to no one pied a few months age, and now suddenly I’m back up to nearly 10… Stress of the primaries and increasing sturm und drang in the Weißes Haus in DC.
And trolls popping up, and russians. I don’t pretend to be able to tell the difference, which is one reason I hate it that our fellow jackals who know Russia and Russian seem to be stopping their commentary. Their insight is so valuable in IDing oddities in syntax and vocabulary that might be a tell of Russian influence.
Immanentize
@?BillinGlendaleCA: But Cuba totally embraces Keef.
Kent
@Brachiator: Unlike Trump, Bernie was apparently a premature Russian Stooge. It’s all so confusing.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@J R in WV: I don’t think I’ve pied anyone since the site update.
Amir Khalid
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
True, it’s been a sticking point in my relations with Cuba.
jonas
@WaterGirl: I think it was “if he’s willing to pitch in with the yardwork” or something like that — but yeah, I got a good chuckle out of that as well.
Pete’s obviously very smart and very talented, and if he had at least, say, Beto O’Rourke’s level of experience, it would go a long way towards allaying my concerns that he’s not quite ready for primetime. But in moments like this, he’s very charming.
Baud
@Kent: It’s relevant to assess how he’d handle foreign affairs.
Rob Lll
@Don K:
My experience is similar — by the time I was 9 or so this aspect of my identity was definitely making its presence felt, although I didn’t have words for it back then.
I teared up while watching this exchange, thinking of both what it could’ve meant to my 9 year-old self and how it might make a difference to some young person out there watching right now. Despite everything that’s messed up in our society, I feel blessed to have seen us make this kind of progress.
Kent
Look guys, I completely understand the issue, and how Castro is a lightning rod for aging white Cubans in south Florida. But at the same time, this annual Castro outrage strikes me as similar to white evangelical outrage over Hillary Clinton because she was pro-choice. They were all going to vote for Trump anyway, the pro-choice thing just gave them something to shout about without looking quite like the racist bigots that they were. How much of this sort of thing is actually old right wing Republicans in Florida rattling around for something to yell about vs actual persuadable voters?
I honestly don’t know the answer but I suspect it is more like the abortion issue. Something to yell about for people who are already hard core Trumpers anyway. In 2016 my right wing MAGA relatives lectured me endlessly about Hillary the ‘Baby Killer’ I was like “fuck off and stop bothering me. Even if she was pro-life you’d just find some other reason to vote for Trump”
Raoul
@balconesfault: How many queer people need to opine here that yes, representation matters, that lives as young as nine are at risk when kids are in dark, closed closets?
You’ve weighed in. But this isn’t about you, except to the extent that your discomfort could put kids at risk. Queerness is a leading cause of youth suicide.
Move on, please, to other threads.
Immanentize
@Baud: Politically, I do not think a promise to re-open Cuba after Trump’s ridiculous re-closure of travel and trade is a bad position to take. Moderate and conservatives want that market and know we are losing it to Canada and the EU. But Sanders cannot seem to pivot from a question about his prior position or statements to a current POLICY issue that would bring in more voters. If he is to be our nominee, can I at least hope for that type of growth in the candidate?
J R in WV
Franklin Graham forgets to mention that the scriptures ask everyone to attempt to not sin, while acknowledging that no one can live without sinning.
Franklin sins every time he opens his mouth, Trump sins whenever he makes a decision. Mayor Pete tries not to sin, while Franklin and Donald revel in their sins. That’s the difference that Franklin cannot acknowledge, ever.
Kent
How so? He might cozy up to dictators like Kim Jong Un? He might cozy up to the Chinese? Cuba is about as relevant as the Dominican Republic with a similar population and economy.
Baud
@Immanentize:
I mean, I don’t care about Castro. But it’s not objectionable for people to ask about how he would react to dictators in terms of his rhetoric and his policies. Maybe he passes that test in some people’s eyes, but he can’t hide behind his stump speech forever.
Raoul
@Ruckus: My thought is: Sure, Franklin, we’re all sinners. But you’re better at the mortal ones than most of us.
Ofcourse “better” =/= better. Oh, and as JR points out, we ain’t seeing much (any) repentance.
mrmoshpotato
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Hehe, did you upgrade the couch?
Cacti
@Kent: There are 13 Dems from Florida in Congress. Tied with Texas and Illinois for the third largest House delegation by State, and trailing only California and New York.
Check their reactions if you want to see whether it’s an important local issue for them.
Even outside of Florida, do you think nostalgia for Fidel Castro is going to be something welcomed by candidates like Mark Kelly and Sara Gideon, or incumbents like Doug Jones? McSally is already running ads in AZ linking Kelly to Sanders.
sgrAstar
@satby: really appreciate your comments about Mayor Pete. Thanks.
?
Baud
@Kent:
Because it’s a statement by him about a foreign affairs issue. It really could be about any foreign affairs topic, but it’s Cuba because of his prior remarks on Cuba.
Geminid
@japa21: You make a very good point. And you listed seven potential Senate pick ups, and “others.” TX, NC, and KS are three others.
Immanentize
@Kent:
This comment suggests an utter lack of knowledge or sincerity about US politics. It is not a rational thing, it is not a report, it a novel stretching over hundreds of years with so many protagonists and antagonists that it is never safe to try to insert yourself into the story. But people must, and at the very least, they should not be completely blind to the realities of the moment which will determine whether they win or lose. The Cuba narrative is a political reality for everyone born before 1959 and for many born afterwards. Tell Florida that Cuba is just like the DR. Tell the CIA and the Mafia that. Maybe I will recommend that position to Sanders.
mrmoshpotato
@Immanentize: LOL
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@trollhattan:
I’m going to drop off my ballot at City Hall tomorrow, and I did the same. I waffled for a while about whether she’ll be out of the running before the votes are counted – she’s been my preferred candidate for a while – but finally realized that even if the race changes before March 3, I won’t change my mind. And of course, broken glass, etc. in the general election.
As for ballot measures, they’re just a really crappy way to make law and I hate that we always have so many, and so many that will do more harm than good or will have unintended and irreversible consequences (Prop 13, I’m looking at you).
mrmoshpotato
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Amir can’t vote in US elections, unless he’s a ghost, then he can vote as much as he likes in Chicago elections.
Baud
The Sanders people thought Hillary’s relationship to Kissinger was an important issue in 2016, and Cuba is far more relevant to the U.S. than that.
TomatoQueen
@Baud: Yes. As everything else becomes increasingly intolerant and intolerable, the adverts are right there, ever so gently showing various and sundry flavors of particularly mixed families having a lovely time together. Last night there was an ad for something or other, music “I don’t know why I love you but I do,” family matriarch relaxing in her bath, scrolling on her phone, as her various family members are portrayed doing their various things. Can’t remember what product was on offer, but do remember that when I were a lass this ad would have caused all of Madison Ave to blow up, and today it doesn’t matter because the message is bonhomie, harmony, good cheer, fun and oh wait a minute, Coke did a little something with that one time, got me through high school. Plus ca change…
MJS
@Cacti: Exactly. Trump won Florida by 1.2%. The Governor and Senate races in 2018 were even closer. It can be won, but not if the nominee doesn’t understand that he’s not infallible, and that he doesn’t know everything. If Bernie has such a strong organization, why didn’t he know what the reaction from Democratic reps would be to that comment?
Baud
@MJS:
I think those are all Establishment Democrats in this mind so he doesn’t care.
Kent
@Immanentize: I’m not arguing whether Cuba is a lightning rod issue. Obviously it is. I’m not willfully ignorant of this fact. However there are two completely separate issues here:
In any event, I’m no Sanders supporter. I think he will be a disaster of a general election candidate. And the Cuba stuff is pretty stupid, but also pretty tame and common sense if you click through to see what he actually said and not what was reported. But I also understand that you can’t say anything about Cuba without it getting distorted.
Yutsano
@MJS:
You make the egregious assumption that he cares what Democrats think. He doesn’t. He’s not a member of the party. He’s not a team player. He and his staff sincerely believe that he can win this whole thing without any Democratic support simply by getting independent and non-voters out. That’s not only horrifically naïve, it’s just stupidity.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
You mean beyond Sanders comes across setting it up so he wins the nomination and tanks against Trump? Loathing Sanders is saying he is deliberately is doing it out of spite to stop Warren from going off and fixing things and leaving Sanders nothing to shame the Democrats about because Sander’s real interest isn’t a better America, it’s complaining about moderate liberals.
A Ghost To Most
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: My wife has been there all along, and I have arrived at the same conclusion. Warren it is.
I have no idea how BS gets stopped, but it was time to get off the pot.
MJS
@Baud: Well, it will be very interesting to see how he governs with that attitude. Just kidding – if that is his attitude, he won’t get the chance.
Geminid
The problems with Sanders’ Cuba answer on 60 minutes are obvious. Another answer that got my attention was when he said that he would intervene militarily if China attacked Taiwan. Even if we don’t substantially cut the Pentagon budget, which Sanders consistently advocates, a US military intervention in a war between China and Taiwan seems like a very heavy lift. I don’t think China will invade Taiwan anytime soon, and I’d hate to see it, but I question whether we have the naval power to stop them. Not sure if Sanders thinks these things through.
mrmoshpotato
@Yutsano: And calling it stupidity is an insult to stupidity.
“Hey, fuck you Clinton voters! I can win this without you!”
Is he expecting all 70 million+ non-voters in 2016 to vote for his gloriously vague revolution?
debbie
@Baud:
Pity the 60 Minutes interviewer didn’t ask him to name the leaders of the various Stans. //
germy
Only the best people:
MisterForkbeard
@Betty Cracker: This ad kind of sucks. It’s actually relatively tame – it’s not “Bernie can’t be trusted” it’s “Bernie can’t be trusted to build on the success of Obama”, and it goes out of its way to be nice to him in general.
In terms of negative campaigning, it’s pretty mild.
debbie
@J R in WV:
And even more, his father would be ashamed of him if he were still around.
J R in WV
@Morzer:
Kent looked up the reporter and his employer, you, on the oether hand, are just full of shit so that it comes out of your mouth.
Welcome to the pastry discussing group, ass!!! You were on the edge for a while, plunged into the abyss right now!!!
PJ
@J R in WV: Incorrect use of articles (Russian and other Slavic languages don’t have them) is the biggest tell. Odd word order (not subject-verb-object) is another.
mrmoshpotato
@germy: WTF? That scumbag is still in our government?
I know. I know.
PJ
@Geminid: Even if, in the event of such a war, we decided not to intervene (a big if), no President or wannabe can say that we won’t – that defeats the whole purpose of deterrence. We might as well hand Taiwan to the PRC on a platter now.
germy
@mrmoshpotato:
Principal Deputy Director of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) agency and Acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security.
A busy man, apparently.
Kent
@Geminid: that has been US policy for 50 years. That answer was completely mainstream. We have an alliance with Taiwan. Anything different would be huge.
cmorenc
@Betty Cracker:
Careful what you wish for, you may get President Joni Ernst as first-female. (Far less egregious example, but Sandra Day O’Connor was first female member of SCOTUS, when we all expected back then the first female justice would someone of much more progressive inclinations).
I’m with you and thought it would be Clinton until 11-ish election night 2016, and hope it’s Warren in 2020. But fate can sometimes have a malevolently dark sense of humor.
JPL
@mrmoshpotato: He was railing against democrats yesterday. He railed against me.
J R in WV
@Morzer:
And you can provide a link to the article, then? But you didn’t provide a link because…?
Kent provided links to all his statements, you have none. Still in the pastry division…
FelonyGovt
@Kent: My in laws are Cuban, and they are Democrats. Don’t ever mention Castro to them. Castro is like an all purpose bogeyman for older Cubans. I seriously think this could lead Cubans in Florida who might otherwise vote Dem to stay home.
Mary G
Amusing thread:
Ella in New Mexico
So as of today, I think we have an idea of what at least three substantive (as opposed to hyperbolic “he’s a communist” wails) opposition attacks on Bernie Sanders can/will be:
!. He’s a Socialist, authoritarian regime apologist, (see “At least Hitler made the trains run on time”). He basically killed the Dems chances in Florida if he’s the nominee because of his statements on Cuba. We can’t afford that.
2. Jane Sanders improper and potentially illegal acts in her handling of the Burlington College land buy. I’m guessing lots of his supporters don’t even know the story, but it will potentially put him at risk for Trump DOJ investigations during either/both the primary or general.
2. He might be sicker than he’s letting on, and voters are entitled to know what they’re getting into. See, calls today from Heidi Przybyla and others saying we need to know, specifically, his cardiac ejection fraction and to clarify how many heart attacks he’s actually had (apparently he referred to “this heart attack” when asked about his medical records, leading to suspicions it’s not his only one).
Knowing a lot of Sanders supporters, I think they won’t be moved by most of the above, but if they’re feeling at all skittish, I’m guessing that if #3 proves at all true, that might be enough for many of them to save face and switch to another candidate
Bottom line: pressure must be put on him to get ahead of any of these potential scandals and provide a clearer, more transparent explanation in case he does become the nominee.
Ruckus
@satby:
The center of possibility has changed over the last decade.
Medicare was passed while I was in HS, 1965.
The ACA was passed in the last decade. We’ve had a black president and republican bullshit aside, the country didn’t end. What is possible is changing. And I think that is part of the republican backlash, that and they found the perfect candidate for their racist, money grubbing, asshole contingent.
Kent
Yes, the article was in the Independent. The author Andrew Feinberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Feinberg is a freelancer for the Independent and currently works is “White House Correspondent and Managing Editor for Breakfast Media LLC” which if you google it bounces back to Andrew Feinberg: https://www.beltwaybreakfast.com/about/
What we do know about Andrew Feinberg is that in 2016 after the election of Trump he went to work for Sputnik news which is a Kremlin-run agit-prop mouthpiece. He made this choice AFTER the election of Trump, knowing full well the Russian role in his election. Since then, who knows? But there is plenty there to question his bias and independence. Certainly enough to question an article full of unidentified “Democratic Operatives” who have concerns about the Sanders campaign.
I have my own numerous concerns about the Sanders campaign too, but I’m also not interested in recycled Russian agit-prop. There are a bazillion reporters and news sources covering the Sanders campaign. Can we not find some who are a bit more reliable?
leeleeFL
@Betty Cracker: worse, I am afeared the first will be Republican, damnit!
J R in WV
@Kent:
Thanks for making that clear. Your attacker could have done that, but preferred not to. Well done, Kent.
My bad for not understanding that the article was in the Independent.
Geminid
@Kent: You may be right, and we do sell Taiwan fighter jets, but my understanding was that U.S. policy regarding intervention in a China vs Taiwan war is “strategic ambiguity.” We don’t say we will, we don’t say we won’t. The idea is to discourage China from invading, and Taiwan from declaring permanent independence. Maybe Mayor Pete, Naval Intelligence officer, will comment tomorrow night. Regardless, Sanders’ robust Taiwan policy conflicts with his goal of substantial military budget cuts. We would probably need to increase the Pentagon budget if we were to fight a war with China over Taiwan.
Ruckus
@Kent:
It’s important because that kind of information gets seen over and over on TV. And makes an impression, subtle or otherwise over time. The next step is all democrats get tagged with it as democratic BS, which of course it isn’t. One more data point to stop someone from voting “the wrong way.”
Kent
@Geminid: Yes, officially it is “strategic ambiguity” but it is completely mainstream for a US presidential candidate to declare solidarity with Taiwan. Sanders is not outside the mainstream on this issue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act
gwangung
@Ella in New Mexico: I will guarantee a new probe from the DOJ into Jane Sanders if Bernie gets the nomination.
If the Sanders team was smart, they’d been preparing for it three months ago.
I’m afraid they’re not smart….
Ruckus
@Geminid:
One of the unspoken problems between Taiwan and China is that Taiwan was building and industrializing – with help from the US. Now that China has taken to industrialization with massive zeal there is much less for China to be pissed about.
Geminid
@Ruckus: Yeah, but a democratic Taiwan is still a moral challenge to the Chinese Communist Party’s control of the mainland. I’m guessing that there is a plan to “reunite” the wayward province by 2049, the hundreth anniversity of the Revolution. Maybe also retake the large areas of eastern Russia that are still shown as Chinese on their maps.
Bex
You don’t know the first thing about the guy, but you have an opinion. It’s easy being clueless.
WaterGirl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: :
That makes CatCake very sad.
LongHairedWeirdo
@satby: Yeah, and “turn from your sins” no longer applies, because, hey, Trump and the GOP. So, now Graham can only go, “we’re all sinners, and the voters are the One True God, next to Trump, but, obviously, but far far ahead of that guy, and his bastard son, born of a “virgin”, who kept talking about helping the poor, and saying BS like “whatsoever you do, to the least of my people, I consider that done to me, and will remember it on Judgment Day.” And did you actually *see* the things that bastard son said about that? It wasn’t that the bad people *murdered* the hungry, the thirsty, those in need of shelter and succor; it was that they just flat out *ignored* them, and did nothing to help! He condemned them for failing to care about their fellows! No, that’s not a Republican deity! Let the VOTERS decide who is a good Christian, instead! (After they’ve been told that Christianity is about being a good Republican, and hating the right people – Muslims, gays, trans, people who use birth control, etc.)
I mean, can you *imagine* that? If you listened to SCRIPTURE, you’d think God cares about immigrants, and would be horrified by ill treatment of them, tearing children from parents, and getting them adopted by Americans, so the families may never reunite. Hell, people who read SCRIPTURE might think it’s awful to start wars, and kill people, and watch them get poisoned, so the Grahams of the world need a new, different god to worship. And GOP politics is just ripe for godhead; Republicans tend to think they’re above and beyond normal humans (and common decency)!
Gex
Apparently we have a Juicer that, much like homophobes, can only think about SEX when they think about gay people. Acknowledging a gay child is bringing up sexuality and not identity.
As others have so adeptly pointed out, it is very customary to talk about children’s sexuality when we presume them to be straight. It’s so normal people don’t notice it, much less express discomfort over it.
I know from my own personal experience how hard and damaging it is to grow up not realizing you are gay, dealing the the unthinking denial you engage in and the damage you do to yourself spending key development years being someone who you are not.
But you know, it does make some straight people uncomfortable so I guess that’s what matters.
balconesfault
@Gex: Well yeah.
Because the only difference I see between a “gay” guy and a “straight” guy who they are sexually attracted to.
I don’t think there’s any difference in intelligence, in how neat they are, in how well they groom, in how tolerant they are of others, in whether they’re liberal or conservative politically, in how moral they are, in how tolerant or racist or misogynistic they might be … on even in how much they like musicals or Barbara Streisand.
When I hear terms like “gay culture” I scoff, because I have gay friends and acquaintances who don’t fit popular stereotypes of “gay culture” in the least.
So yeah – I do associate “gay” with sexuality. Without that, I don’t really understand what the reason for the distinction is whatsoever.