Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

The fight for our country is always worth it. ~Kamala Harris

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Consistently wrong since 2002

People are complicated. Love is not.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

Dumb motherfuckers cannot understand a consequence that most 4 year olds have fully sorted out.

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

We will not go back.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

Our messy unity will be our strength.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2020 / Sweet Mercy Apparently There’s Another Fucking Debate Tonight

Reader Interactions

373Comments

  5. 5.

    Sab

    My husband’s Maine coon comes running whenever Daddy calls him by either his name or his nickname. I mean drops everything and gallops over. Even when Dad is yelling at him. If Dad calls he comes.

    It’s weird. I have never seen another cat do this, but my sister says it’s typical of happily settled Maine coons.

  6. 6.

    Amir Khalid

    Bianca’s bedtime ritual, ever since she was a kitten, is to give my scalp and face a lengthy tongue bath. I learned to look forward to it.

    It seems to me that these candidate debates have been devolved by their organisers into a series of rank-out contests: more entertaining than having candidates argue for their position on things, but less useful for the voter who wants to assess them on merit.

  8. 8.

    WaterGirl

    Oh my god, John, did you actually do this?

    Apparently growling “See anything you like” at the well meaning stranger in the grocery store who informed you your zipper was down is not appropriate.

    First I laughed out loud, then I snorted.  (sorry)

  10. 10.

    The Dangerman

    Dear Abby,

    Scientists say the oceans are rising, doctors are warning of a worldwide pandemic, and the Stock Market is in free fall…

    …but Donald is doing the Kevin Bacon (“All is well. ALL IS WELL!!”) and blaming it all on the unfairness of the Deep State (so unfair to him) and fake news.

    Who do I believe?

  12. 12.

    Chyron HR

    One of the demands in Bernie’s Unity Ransom Letter to the DNC was debates every night until he wins, so here we are.

  13. 13.

    E.

    @Sab: I’ve got a runty little black cat that’s the same way.  When I call he runs. If I yell out “Where are you?” he usually just vocalizes. Never seen anything like it.

  14. 14.

    hilts

    Great thumbnail description by Kurt Eichenwald on the Republican opposition research file on Sanders.  He wrote this 4 years ago.

    I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers.

     

    Here are a few tastes of what was in store for Sanders, straight out of the Republican playbook: He thinks rape is A-OK. In 1972, when he was 31, Sanders wrote a fictitious essay in which he described a woman enjoying being raped by three men. Yes, there is an explanation for it—a long, complicated one, just like the one that would make clear why the Clinton emails story was nonsense. And we all know how well that worked out.

     

    Then there’s the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, and that he stole electricity from a neighbor after failing to pay his bills, and that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermont’s nuclear waste to a poor Hispanic community in Texas, where it could be dumped. You can just see the words “environmental racist” on Republican billboards. And if you can’t, I already did. They were in the Republican opposition research book as a proposal on how to frame the nuclear waste issue.

     

    Also on the list: Sanders violated campaign finance laws, criticized Clinton for supporting the 1994 crime bill that he voted for, and he voted against the Amber Alert system. His pitch for universal health care would have been used against him too, since it was tried in his home state of Vermont and collapsed due to excessive costs. Worst of all, the Republicans also had video of Sanders at a 1985 rally thrown by the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua where half a million people chanted, “Here, there, everywhere/the Yankee will die,” while President Daniel Ortega condemned “state terrorism” by America. Sanders said, on camera, supporting the Sandinistas was “patriotic.”

     

    The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don’t know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.

     

     

    h/t https://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

     

     

     

     

  16. 16.

    Another Scott

    I’m reading here and listening to the CBSNews broadcast in another tab. Let’s do this!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  17. 17.

    Elizabelle

    Bernie gets billionaires in in his first 20 words.

    Q is “hey, isn’t this actually a fab economy with such a low unemployment rate?”  — that’s the gist.

  19. 19.

    Another Scott

    Q to Bernie – How can you keep unemployment as low as God Emperor Trump has done?

    A – Yeah, it’s a great economy for Billionaires™… (track 5, 2016 stump speech)

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  20. 20.

    Sab

    @Amir Khalid: It syas a lot that BJers can’t be bothered to watch. Nobody watches for the media looking for selective soundbites. Disheartening, but then I door to door canvas ( canvass?) and it’s okay. Nice people out there.

    Last week I was a kind of naive asshole. They are sending us out alone since shortstaffed. I found my neighborhood and thought “hmm, that’s iffy.” I read the newspaper.

    So I called my husband to drive while I canvassed and he said “your not doing that alone” so I went back and said sorry I can’t do these streets.

    Then I dragooned another guy who had just  turned up to canvas, and it was embarrassing, because the street was a whole bunch of single moms on minimum wage just raising their kids. That’s part of our target group.

    ETA They live there with their babies all the time, mostly happily, and I was afraid to walk on their streets?

  21. 21.

    dnfree

    I have a debate question. What is the story about Democrats removing the one and only American flag from the debate stage in Las Vegas?  I am seeing right-wingers on social media ranting about this. “Why would anyone vote for Democrats who don’t display the flag???”  I haven’t seen anything about this in so-called mainstream media or fact-checkers.

  26. 26.

    Elizabelle

    EW.  Bernie and I agree on a lot of things but I think I would make a better president than Bernie.

    This is why I want her as nominee.  She is the real deal.  She is specific.

  28. 28.

    Another Scott

    Liz – Bernie can’t get it done.  I can.

    Liz – I got it done, and Bernie’s team trashed me for it.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  29. 29.

    Elizabelle

    Says Bernie’s team trashed her for it.  Progressives have one shot and we want to do it with a leader who can get it done.

    Lively debate.  Pete up now.

    Imagine Trump vs. Bernie.  Exactly.

  34. 34.

    Elizabelle

    Pete’s right about we don’t want our blood pressure through the roof watching Bernie v Trump.

    Who would think we would be collateral damage to 2 over the hill 70 year olds with advanced health problems?

  35. 35.

    jl

    Warren’s answer was good, Steyer’s is good, since make good policy points.

    Buttigieg’s was a cheap shot

    @Elizabelle: Guess we disagree. Biden’s OK too.

  36. 36.

    Another Scott

    Uncle Joe – Bernie voted against the Brady Bill 5 times.

    Uncle Joe – Bernie wanted someone to primary Barack.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  37. 37.

    Elizabelle

    Biden:  Bernie voted 5 times against the Brady Bill.  Brings up Mother Immanuel.

    Wanted to primary Barack Obama.

    Good.  Take him out, candidates.

    Progressive is getting things done.

  40. 40.

    Elizabelle

    @Another Scott:   I am your echo!

    We have to see if Bernie answers anything without “billionaires” in it.

    And his platform was stolen from the Dems.  Learn up, Berniebots.

  42. 42.

    PsiFighter37

    I don’t think I have the energy to hate-watch this, but I hope someone besides Bloomberg mentions Wilmer’s connections to the NRA.

  45. 45.

    Another Scott

    ex-Mayor Pete – I have more grass-roots donors than I have Billionaires™.

    ex-Mayor Pete – Send me money.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  46. 46.

    jl

    I like Buttigieg much much less every time I see him in a new debate.

    You don’t need cheap shots to take down Sanders. Easy to do without them.

  50. 50.

    Eljai

    @schrodingers_cat: I kind of think that as long as Bloomberg is in the race, it helps Bernie.  So I think she should take Bloomie out and leave the others to do the frontal attacks on Bernie.

  52. 52.

    jl

    This going to be another debate wrecked by moderators trying to be wanna-be C-list Tiger Beat gossip columnists? Horse race much?

    With coronavirus news, and resulting economic news we need some substantive questions.

  55. 55.

    RandomMonster

    @Adam L Silverman: I forgot about the stutter. I will admit this is the first debate for this season that I’m watching live, so I’m not used to hearing him speak for more than a sound bite.

  56. 56.

    Amir Khalid

    I think that whether a cat comes when called has a lot to do with how it feels about the human calling it. That, and whether it has some more immediate concern at the moment than coming to you.

  57. 57.

    Adam L Silverman

    @dnfree: Someone caught a screen grab of them setting up the debate stage in Vegas. No Democrats are on stage. No moderators are in their seats at the moderator table. An American Flag was set up on the stage where it was standing in between the entry onto the stage and the podiums. There is no sound and no indication any candidate or campaign or the DNC asked for it to be removed. My guess is that it was removed by NBC’s stage producer because he didn’t want the first candidate to come up, run into it, and knock it over.

  58. 58.

    Another Scott

    Amy: Instead of just talking about the past, we need to talk about how we’re going to move forward. But first like Dr. Martin Luther King said 50 years ago…

    :-/

    She finished strong, but man, talk about losing the plot at the beginning…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  61. 61.

    Another Scott

    SP Warren brings out the flame thrower: Trump will be here later to support Lindsey Graham. ex-Mayor Mike also supported Lindsey…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  63. 63.

    jl

    @trnc: Steyer’s answer wasn’t that great, but it addressed issues. I thought Buttigieg’s answer was almost Cillizza level theater criticism politics.

    I’m a Warren supporter, so don’t mind a bit if they make some effective attacks on Sanders. But I want them to be attacks on issues, not cheap shots.

  64. 64.

    JWR

    There’s been a lot of talk about Bernie’s 60 Minutes interview, but for me, this is the part that really got my spidey senses tingling:

    Anderson Cooper: It’s interesting you don’t like to talk a lot about personal stuff most people running, on a campaign, they want people to know that side of them. Why do you think that’s not important?

    Bernie Sanders: I’m not saying it’s not important, I’m a kinda private person in a sense, and I, you know, and I’m not particularly anxious to tell the world about everything personal in my life.

    Well excuuuse me!, “Mr. Not Particularly Anxious To Tell“, because the oppo is gonna be lit. Here’s hoping it’s used against him by the Dems, and not Trump.

  66. 66.

    Elizabelle

    Q: to EW: you’ve said Bloomberg is the riskiest candidate, not the safest.

    EW says Bbg funded Lindsey Graham.  (Graham’s name got a boo from the audience.)  Brings up his supporting GOP over women challengers — and one was HER — “that was me.  It didn’t work.  But he tried  hard.”

    Says that core of Dem party will never trust BBg.  So he is riskiest candidate on this stage.

    Bbg brings up smoldering piles of 911.  Cites experience, resources, and record.

  71. 71.

    Mnemosyne

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Take a look at the comments just above yours — looks like Liz decided that tonight was the night to take on Bernie. ?

    I’ve been skimming the terrible news about the pogroms in India. I hope you’re holding up okay. ?

  73. 73.

    Roger Moore

    @Eljai:

    So I think she should take Bloomie out and leave the others to do the frontal attacks on Bernie.

    This is more or less how I see it.  When you attack a candidate who is far from you ideologically, you can use it to show your own ideological position, while you have to be very careful about attacking somebody who’s close to you.  So it makes more sense for Warren to attack Bloomberg and let the more centrist candidates go after Bernie.

  77. 77.

    Adam L Silverman

    @RandomMonster: I asked my mom, a retired speech language pathologist, about it. About whether the combination of age and stress could make him start to revert. She said it is certainly a possibility.

  83. 83.

    jl

    @zhena gogolia: Biden has been very uneven on effective oratory. I listened to some of his trial speeches before he declared. He was practicing such an over elaborate folksy Uncle Joe schtick, with long long stories, slipping in and out of various characters, that it was almost impossible to figure out what he was saying.

    So, he may have had trouble working up a more effective approach. I think he’s been getting better recently.

  91. 91.

    ET

    I am from New Orleans but don’t live there, so instead I am watching  c-are of the WYES YouTube channel – the meeting of the Courts – Rex and Comus which is the end of Mardi Gras essentially.

    The is a whole Twitter “thing” for #tweetingofthecourts and #rexcomus

    It is HIL-AIR-E-OUS!  Bring booze if you watch.

  100. 100.

    Elizabelle

    Someone should pivot to Coronavirus.

    And stick up more for improving our healthcare system.  Amy is weak sauce on “we can’t afford it.”  We can’t afford the status quo.

  105. 105.

    Another Scott

    Uncle Joe is saying that one of the billionaires bought a private prison… Steyer?

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  108. 108.

    Ohio Mom

    Just got here. Pete is ripping Bernie to pieces, now Biden is at it. Swoon…the moments I’ve been dreaming of.

  111. 111.

    Elizabelle

    Amy re tearing the party apart will lead to Trump continuing to tear the country apart.

    Says Bernie is not best person to lead the ticket.

    No shit.  Yea Amy!

    It matters if we can actually get things done.  Not just talk.

  112. 112.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Elizabelle:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/michael-bloomberg-women/

    The most high-profile case was from a former saleswoman. She sued Bloomberg personally as well as his company, alleging workplace discrimination. She alleged Bloomberg told her to “kill it” when he learned she was pregnant. Bloomberg has denied her allegation under oath, and he reached a confidential settlement with the saleswoman.

    The Washington Post interviewed a former Bloomberg employee, David Zielenziger, who said he witnessed the conversation with the saleswoman. Zielenziger, who said he had not previously spoken publicly about the matter, said Bloomberg’s behavior toward the woman was “outrageous. I understood why she took offense.”

    More at the link.

  116. 116.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    IIRC, it can be difficult for someone who has a stammer to speak extemporaneously because they can unexpectedly run into the word pairs that give them trouble. That’s why he’s much more likely to reach eloquence with a prepared speech that he can write to avoid the word pairs that give him issues.

    (Note: not a speech pathologist, but I did some basic reading about stuttering after I saw “The King’s Speech.”)

  118. 118.

    jl

    I’m turning down the sound, will turn it up if I hear a decent question. Hate this debate so for. Same damn questions that have been asked ten times over. Candidates are spouting slogans.

    ‘howugonnapayforit’ question is totally bogus. Either M4A or improved ACA have to bring down sky high prices of US medical care. Either can or can’t depending on the details. If they can, they save money, if they don’t, we go bust.

    US spends 18 percent of GDP on health care. Other M4A or improved ACA countries spend between 10 and 12 percent. There you go. That’s all the math you need. I think Warren said that once, and she should have stuck with that instead of playing the  ‘howugonnapayforit’ GOP talking point game.

    Edit: half the game of ACA was to bend the ‘cost curve’. Big sighs of relief after it started doing so. One piece of damage Trump sabotage has done is to allow prices to start rising too fast again.

  119. 119.

    WaterGirl

    Did bloomberg just accidentally say he “bought” all the new members of congress who got elected in 2018?

    edit: I see that Scott at #122 heard the same thing.

  122. 122.

    Another Scott

    ex-Mayor Mike – I bought 20-some-odd seats in the House. Bow down to me.

    ex-Mayor Mike – Teh Debt will Kill Us All in our Beds!!1

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  125. 125.

    guachi

    Filled my California ballot out for Warren. I’m keeping my fingers crossed she’s the best one to take out Sanders as I’d be reasonably happy with Biden or Klobuchar (whom I’ve donated to).

  127. 127.

    Elizabelle

    Bloomberg:  Polls are not the election.

    Can anyone imagine moderate GOP going over and voting for Bernie?

  136. 136.

    Martin

    @schrodingers_cat: Warren needs 15% for viability to get any delegates. That’s either gotta come out of Bernie, out of Bloomberg, or out of Amy dropping out. Having 5-6 candidates splitting the 70% that Bernie isn’t winning is turning the race over to Bernie. Someone needs to get knocked out.

    Bloombergs whole proposition is to knock out everyone with massive early ad buys. That’s failing badly on stage. Biden only has downward momentum. Warren is soaking up all of the non-Bernie energy right now. Tom needs to drop out. Amy probably does as well, though I don’t blame her for staying in after NH. Just getting it down to 4 splitting that 70% would help a lot.

    This is why the GOP race went the way it did. It was Trump and everyone else, and the everyone else divided up what was left to such a degree that Trump walked off with it.

    We gotta get this field down to 4 or fewer, like, now. Liz got some money out of the last debate. Without that, I think she’d be on that list to drop out as well, but she’s gotta turn that into votes, and it’s just not in the polling yet.

  141. 141.

    Another Scott

    @WaterGirl: Yup.  They need to get their acts together.  But spending so much time on Bernie for the first question or so invited the others jumping in.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  142. 142.

    trnc

    @Elizabelle: There better be some solid, solid evidence for the Bloomberg “kill it” comment.

    Yeah, I expected at least that she could point to a woman testifying under oath. She shouldn’t have said it without having anything solid since there’s plenty of other stuff to ding him on.

  145. 145.

    guachi

    I want someone to mention that Bernie’s health care plan has a 100% chance of dying in Congress but lets not just talk about his health care plan, let’s talk about his health. A male in his 70s who had a heart attack has a greater than 50% chance of dying in five years.

  155. 155.

    jl

    Besides the crap question, the moderators keep insisting on using unworkable unenforceable rules, so they could pick and choose what questions to ask which candidates for their gotcha trolling, not to produce an informative or fair debate. When candidates are desperate to save their campaigns, chaos ensues.

  157. 157.

    trnc

    @Another Scott: Uncle Joe is saying that one of the billionaires bought a private prison… Steyer?

    Yup, then turned around and sold it rather than reform it. I think it was the most pathetic response tonight.

  160. 160.

    Another Scott

    Uncle Joe “Congress” has not been able to pass gun legislation in 25 years? Why are you and the rest of you a bunch of old losers?

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  162. 162.

    Elizabelle

    @schrodingers_cat:   EW needs to sharpen her answers a lot.

    A lot of basic progressive — actually, Democratic! — ideas are popular.  Bernie, however, is the last person to implement them.  I think people should give more credit to Dems for the platform.  It’s not all Bernie.  Stop that.

    I think she wandered a lot in the response.  Bullet point what’s popular that you’re not getting out of GOP and Mitch and Trump.  There is a lot.

    It was not a great answer at all.

  164. 164.

    WaterGirl

    @Martin:

    Without that, I think she’d [Warren] be on that list to drop out as well, but she’s gotta turn that into votes, and it’s just not in the polling yet.

    Someone reported a national poll today that has Elizabeth Warren polling in 1st place.

  166. 166.

    Mary G

    @Elizabelle:  A female employee who sued him said he did and a male colleague backed her up in deposition under oath. Bloomie has always  denied it, but he did settle with her.

  167. 167.

    Tom Q

    @Martin: Difference is, the GOP has winner-take-all primaries, so the split enabled Trump to win delegate numbers from which none of the others could catch up.  Dems are proportional all the way along, so Sanders continuing to win in 30% range won’t bring him near the numbers he needs to clinch it.

    It’s still helpful to thin the field, but not crucial in the way it was for GOP 4 years ago.

  169. 169.

    Elizabelle

    Bernie cannot defend himself on guns.

    Tries to attack Biden on trade policy.  Boos from audience.

    Confesses that he has made some bad votes.  That is refreshing.

  171. 171.

    TheronWare

    Hey did Biden just say that one hundred fifty million people were killed by firearms in the U.S. ?! Someone please tell me I heard that wrong!

  176. 176.

    guachi

    @Tom Q: It will if there continue to be candidates that poll below 15%. In Nevada Sanders received 47% of the final vote and 69% of the delegates, for example.

  177. 177.

    WaterGirl

    I know it’s immature to call names, but I’m gonna do it anyway.

    How can Bloomberg by such a whiny baby at the same time as he’s a fucking arrogant prick?

  180. 180.

    Avalune

    I also was wondering if Bloomberg had paid for people to cheer him. I mean why not? He’s paying Instagram Influencers to “make him look cool.”

    Bloomberg is just…Trump trying to claim Democrat. It’s gross.

  181. 181.

    JWR

    Yeah, Bloomberg must have hired a cheering section. But hey, he’s bought everything else thus far, so why not?

  187. 187.

    jl

    @WaterGirl: “How can Bloomberg by such a whiny baby at the same time as he’s a fucking arrogant prick?”

    My guess is that you don’t know many rich people.

  194. 194.

    Adam L Silverman

    @WaterGirl: That was not a cheap shot about how the blog functions. It was me complimenting all of us with front page access that when we see someone ask for a moderator, we immediately check to see if someone got stuck in moderation. Believe me, if I want to take a cheap shot about whether I think something is broken or not, it’ll be crystal clear.

  196. 196.

    WaterGirl

    @jl:

    My guess is that you don’t know many rich people.

    You would be correct!   When he’s not being whiny or arrogant, he has that condescending tone of voice that people use when they are trying to “handle” a problem customer. Ugh.

  197. 197.

    PsiFighter37

    Why is Tom Steyer even on this stage. The man has even less accomplishments than Bloomberg.

  199. 199.

    Leto

    “How do we change the Senate in a material way?”

    *Proposes dumb idea.

    ”Your time is up, as well as your campaign. Please collect a gift bag on your way out.”

  200. 200.

    Elizabelle

    Bernie, the American people have known how awful the mass shootings for a long long time.

    Steyer talking about gun manufacturers own DC.

    WRT fillibuster:  60 votes for everything is too heavy a lift.  Unless we have a Blue Tsunami.  A girl can hope.

  201. 201.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Leto: He’s cheating on the line of scrimmage to get a jump on making that pointy stabby finger thing he does.Think of his arm and hand like a striker action hand gun. It is precocked and all he has to do is pull the trigger to deploy the moving finger of emphasisity!

  204. 204.

    Another Scott

    Charter schools. ex-Mayor Mike says they were great in NYC.

    Yay! Get the teacher unions madder at him.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  207. 207.

    Leto

    @PsiFighter37: He could be spending the money that he’s using on his vanity campaign to help change the Senate, something he says he wants. Do the right thing, Mr Tartan.

  210. 210.

    PsiFighter37

    Bernie waving his arm around every time he talks is highly distracting. Dude clearly never took a public speaking course that meant anything.

  212. 212.

    Avalune

    Pains me to say that was a good answer from Pete.

    And he almost didn’t use his exasperated dad voice.

  214. 214.

    jl

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: “Being that the President has jack shit to do with it, yeah.”

    They are talking about a lot of things that being president has jack shit to with directly.

    Like Warren’s answer on schools. I think she’s doing the best in terms of appeal. I don’t think that attacking Sanders is a good strategy for her to get much of his support right now. She has a lot more appeal to moderates than Sanders, better to see if she can get some of them, if she needs a quick boost. IMHO.

  215. 215.

    guachi

    The Bernie Bashing ™ has stopped. Has any candidate brought up Sanders’s love for Cuba and China yet?

  216. 216.

    Leto

    @Adam L Silverman: Hahahaha :)

    @JWR: He does. I would say he needs to get his limbs under control but he’s 78 (?) and it’s too late.

    And Private Garrett talks over EW. Yes, intentional demotion there.

  221. 221.

    PsiFighter37

    At least from the little bit I have watched, I honestly have zero idea what concrete plans any of these people have, aside from Wilmer’s freebies that are paid for by revolution (I think).

  225. 225.

    PsiFighter37

    @Leto: It’s his natural position, as he complains about his soup being too cold, or about billionaires controlling his precious bodily fluids.

  227. 227.

    Another Scott

    Liz jumping on housing discrimination.

    Uncle Joe whines that “is this how we’re going to do this? Everyone just jumps in?”

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  228. 228.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @jl: The President appoints the Sec. of Education, Warren mentioned her choice would be a teacher.  Good answer.

    She needs to separate herself from Bernie, otherwise to most voters(folk here excepted) just see her as Bernie Lite.

  232. 232.

    Another Scott

    ex-Mayor Mike says Liz is “misinformed” about his recorded remarks on red-lining.

    ex-Mayor Mike – “I won last week”.

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  233. 233.

    Avalune

    @WaterGirl: Not really. And only partially because of the disappointed dad voice…

    Bloomberg is trying to be strong but he’s still just coming off as a prick.

  235. 235.

    hitchhiker

    watching with the sound off

    pretending i’ve never heard of any of them

    on that basis, Pete is the one who comes across like a calm, rational person, and Amy is the one who comes across as most phony … those big smiles just don’t fit on a tense face.

    Bernie looks truly deranged at times, Tom and Mike are cipherish, and Elizabeth just strikes me as alarmed. Joe seems much more relaxed than the other old guys, for what that’s worth.

    YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH I WISH KAMALA WERE THERE, RIGHT IN THE CENTER OF THAT STAGE.

    also, my question for the group would be: give us your best trump impression.

  238. 238.

    WaterGirl

    Bloomberg trying to gaslight by saying he won last week so he’s shocked that anyone would dare to attack him tonight.  Fuck you, Bloomberg

  239. 239.

    mrmoshpotato

    Mike: You can work across the aisle.  You have to know how to deal with people.

    How far up your ass was your head from 2008-2016?

  243. 243.

    Leto

    @PsiFighter37: “Garçon, garçon! My… lentils are too cold, there’s not enough ham, I see that table over there has more ham, and the only way to get more ham is if you tax the milluhnairs and billuhnairs! No, I’m not going to explain how that will lead to more ham; more ham!”

  245. 245.

    WaterGirl

    @hitchhiker:

    Amy is the one who comes across as most phony … those big smiles just don’t fit on a tense face.

    I noticed that last year, too.  I typed “year”, but I meant at the debate last week, but I left “year” in there because dammit, it feels kind of like a year.

  247. 247.

    Elizabelle

    Can you imagine Trump fielding any of these questions?  Or discussing race’s impact on housing and finance and gentrification, etc.

  252. 252.

    zhena gogolia

    I’m not watching, just getting it via you guys. I wish Kamala, Stacey, and Schiff were up there.

  255. 255.

    dnfree

    @Elizabelle: at the risk of someone yelling at me, Warren runs overtime on almost all her answers.  She’s passionate but then she expresses the same basic idea three different ways while the moderator is telling her time’s up. Once in a while would be okay, but doing it consistently maker her look shouty too. Is that what you mean by sharpening her answers?

  257. 257.

    Jinchi

    Am I paying for sins from a previous life?

    I don’t think we could’ve been that bad. Maybe we’re paying in advance for the next one.

  261. 261.

    PsiFighter37

    @WaterGirl: No offense, but if people are voting on reparations, they are focused on the wrong things this year in 2020. Perhaps not the most popular opinion, but that’s far back on the list of issues to deal with if we win the presidency this year…

  265. 265.

    Elizabelle

    @dnfree:   I think she wanders into biography too much and stays there.  Some of that — introducing herself to voters/viewers — but then a sharper answer on the policy and why it would be popular.

  266. 266.

    zhena gogolia

    @hitchhiker:

    FWIW, my husband has a visceral reaction to people’s faces, and he also thought Amy was phony just based on her face, not on anything she was saying.

  268. 268.

    guachi

    @hitchhiker: I’d add that there are times that Biden becomes intense, but not in a bad way. Otherwise I think your analysis is spot on. Pete’s problem is he comes across as a bit phony in how he speaks but he presents well purely on visuals.

  271. 271.

    JWR

    @Leto:

    and the only way to get more ham is if you tax the milluhnairs and billuhnairs!

    FTFY. Please, people, keep up with Sanders’ wealth.

    ;)

  273. 273.

    dnfree

    @Baud: I have seen local LWV debates where they just hold up time cards and the candidate stops talking. It’s much easier to listen to than the overtalking.  Shock collars might help.

  274. 274.

    Another Scott

    @WaterGirl: I blame Bernie for setting the tone at the beginning.

    Pete’s trying to get a word in edge-wise and jumping in a lot.

    Uncle Joe is being shut-out almost as much as Steyer.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  277. 277.

    Elizabelle

    @PsiFighter37:   Agreed.  Reparations can be polarizing.  Deal with the underlying problems once in office.  Don’t give the GOP a distraction they can run into the ground, and they will.

  280. 280.

    Chyron HR

    @guachi:

    The Bernie Bashing ™ has stopped.

    It’s like they don’t even know Bernie declared himself king of the Democratic party last week.

  282. 282.

    Avalune

    I kind of hate that we are talking about Amy’s “phony face.” Like I see what you are saying but at the same time I think that comes from being a woman doesn’t it? Being told to smile more…no wait not too much but don’t frown it makes you look bitchy but no no now it’s insincere…more teeth! You’d be pretty if you smiled more!

  285. 285.

    Tom Q

    @PsiFighter37: In fact, it’s a “we’re not seriously trying to win” self-inflicted wound.  Trump is an existential threat; why do Dems want to make beating him as difficult as possible by focusing on divisive issues?

  287. 287.

    gwangung

    I admire the passion of some Warren supporters around here. Their grasp of electoral campaigning…less so.

     

    Attacking and getting rid of the lesser candidates IS an attack on Sanders. A great advantage for him is the size of the field. He gets his rock bottom 30%, and the number of candidates divides the rest of the delegates, often putting them under 15%. That allows Sanders to grab delegates at a higher proportion than he would normally be entitled to.

    That goes away when there are fewer candidates (4 or so?). So focussing fire on the weaker candidates is a tactic that fights Sanders.

  290. 290.

    Leto

    @mrmoshpotato: Not too bad, getting stronger. I’ve been running (I hesitate to use that word, really) for about 5 mins at a time. Walk/run combo for 5 mins. It’s all my knees/waist can tolerate at the moment but it’s improvement. Biking a lot more. Avalune and I did two trips this weekend, about 12 miles each, which was a lot of fun. :)

  291. 291.

    Marcopolo

    Not watching tonight. On twitter there has been some commenting that Bloomberg seems to have a cheering section. This may actually be true. In order to guarantee getting a ticket for tonight’s debate you had to be a debate sponsor…which started at $1750.00.

    Voters hoping to attend the Democratic presidential debate in Charleston this month will be hard-pressed to find guaranteed tickets unless they pay thousands of dollars as a sponsor.
    The last presidential debate before the South Carolina Democratic primary will be on Feb. 25 at 8 p.m. at the Gaillard Center.
    Voters Emily Kiley and Peter Davis have been volunteering and supporting Bernie Sanders’s campaign for months.
    “We watch every debate that goes on so now that one’s coming to Charleston that’s insanely exciting,” Kiley said. “Of course the first thing we do is look for tickets.”
    The couple has signed up to be a part of more than 800 volunteers to help set up or work the debate.
    “But there’s no access to tickets on any Democratic site that we could see,” Kiley said.
    That’s because tickets aren’t readily available. The Charleston County Democratic Party website says “The only guaranteed way to get a ticket is to become a sponsor of the debate.”

    Sponsorship ranges from $1,750 to $3,200 each for attendance to multiple “First in the South” events.
    Charleston County Democratic Party Chair Colleen Condon said neither the state nor local party knows how many tickets will be available to the general public. She said tickets are first handed out to organizers. Then, campaigns may get some tickets to disperse among supporters.
    “This is something that the average person doesn’t usually get to go to,” Condon said. “The Gaillard is only so big and this is something that is just a hot ticket from across the country. These kind of events really are set up for sponsors and things like that.”

  292. 292.

    guachi

    @Elizabelle: Absolutely. They piled on about M4A and… that’s it. Not his health. Not his terrible comments about China or Cuba. Not his BernieBro employee who trashed Buttigieg and Warren.

    EDIT: They did a little on guns.

  293. 293.

    Leto

    @Elizabelle: They keep throwing questions to Bloomberg; why? I mean, I know “why” but seriously…

    Not really enjoying this format. Moderators are dickish.

  294. 294.

    Elizabelle

    Glad Bernie said “War on Drugs.”  Short and descriptive.  He has a good answer on this.

    Does not want any marijuana billionaires.

    Commercial break!

  299. 299.

    Immanentize

    @WaterGirl: Frankly. It is good if Steyer convinced everyone in the country that only he supports reparations.  I know they are fighting for South Carolina at this minute, but let his statement stand to free people up after SC.

  301. 301.

    trnc

    @dnfree: Part of the problem with modern debates is that the candidates basically have to use time pointing out the problems with other candidates. That’s the media’s job, but they don’t often do that in any meaningful way for people not named Clinton. If it weren’t for that, we’d be served much better by more town halls where candidates can spend more time on policy ideas.

  302. 302.

    JWR

    I fully support opening PERMANENT businesses that sell pot. (Around here, they pop up, and a month later, poof!

    (Yes, I actually use it for pain, and it does work!)

  305. 305.

    Jinchi

    @dnfree: I am seeing right-wingers on social media ranting about this. “Why would anyone vote for Democrats who don’t display the flag???”

    Have your right-winger friends Google images of the the 2016 Republican primary debates and count flags. Let me know when they get above zero.

  306. 306.

    RandomMonster

    Has Bernie given that ‘legalize maijuana’ speech before? I found it slightly shocking, though I’m not against legalization.

  309. 309.

    jl

    @Marcopolo: I thought the audience seemed to be composed of cliques for the different candidates. And that explains it.

    Who decided to do that? Why? For more reality show shit instead of a real debate?

    I’ve turned it off. I’ll catch up on any parts that are interesting later.

  311. 311.

    Leto

    @mrmoshpotato: Oh, meant to add this (Avalune just reminded me): went to the hematologist today and starting next week I should be able to come off the blood thinners. I’ve been on them since Oct ‘18, so coming off of them is Big Biden Deal. :)

  315. 315.

    Another Scott

    @Baud: The way I heard the question was “Would you, on your First Day™, expunge the records of those arrested for drug offenses.”

    It was stupid on so very many levels…

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  323. 323.

    Avalune

    He’s almost off ALL his prescription drugs. Fewer and fewer doctors visits. Beating me up hills. It’s disgusting.

  325. 325.

    Mary G

    @Baud: Amy McGrath emailed me that KY polls now have her tied with Yertle the Turtle, so this’ll be another sign of trouble for him.

  329. 329.

    Elizabelle

    EWarren:  Not to use our military to solve problems that cannot be solved militarily.

    Use all the tools in our toolbox.  Need a strong State Dept.

    Great answer.

    Importance of alliances and be nicer to our friends than dictators.

    Great answer.

    And straight to Bloomberg.  Again??

     

    9 11.

  333. 333.

    Aleta

    Where are the 178(?),000 units of affordable housing that Bloomberg took credit for providing in NYC?

  338. 338.

    Elizabelle

    No new thread?

    Now to Pete as only veteran.  Brings up his Afgh service.  His flag represented a country that was known to keep its word.

    Restore the credibility of the US.

    Applause.

  346. 346.

    Ukko

    Uncle Joe is whining about the moderators. Not covering himself in glory. Does he think that is a good look?

  347. 347.

    Elizabelle

    I am glad they are emphasizing relations with our allies.

    That is a great attack against Trump.

  353. 353.

    trnc

    I like that Amy pushed the CDC website, but I wish she hadn’t preceded it with the “I’m not going to push my website.” Pretty obvious setup for “I want a cookie.”

  357. 357.

    guachi

    I always wanted to see a candidate who was going to drop out to go kamikaze on one or two other candidates and just attack, attack, attack and then use the closing remarks to drop out and endorse someone else. It would probably make big news.

  361. 361.

    Leto

    @Immanentize: Oh man, why you gotta raise my blood pressure this late at night??? :P

    Turns out my retirement paperwork was submitted as a separation. Meaning instead of retiring and collecting pay, I was… just separated. I have no idea how it happened, the person acknowledged the mistake, and then we walked through the entire damned process again. This marks the third time I’m having to do this. Tomorrow I’m writing my boss to get our big wig boss involved in this to 1) make sure this shit doesn’t happen again because it’s a fucking simple process that’s executed across scores of bases every day and 2) get her very very heavy hand involved in this to make sure this time it goes smoothly. Because JFC!!! Avalune described me as verbally strangling the person I met today, which is a fair description. After it was all done, I expressed my sincere gratitude for their help and emphasized I wasn’t mad at them, just the fuck ups that keep happening. They understood and sympathized.

     

    Do you remember the Morton’s Salt motto? :)

  363. 363.

    Avalune

    @zhena gogolia: Fair enough. I just said I kind of hate that we were talking about it in that manner. I totally see why people are saying that about her, I just kind of hate that we’re going there because of the whole “you’d be prettier if you smile” kind of way we focus on women’s appearances. I don’t know – complicated topic.

  364. 364.

    Duane

    @Baud: When Sanders was asked about authoritarian governments he should have turned it right to Trumpov. Now he’s getting beat over the head with it.

  370. 370.

    Citizen Alan

    @trnc: It’s worse than that. Term limits make the problem of money in politics worse because the newly elected politicians don’t have enough time in office to master the political rules and so become dependent on lobbyists to write their bills for them.

  372. 372.

    WaterGirl

    @Dan B: Look in the sidebar under Calling All Jackals, and you will see Nominate a Rotating Tag.

    Click on that.  :-)

    If you’re on mobile, you’ll find side bar items at the bottom of the post, after all the comments.

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