I think we know that no matter whether COVID-19 is a massive epidemic, or a nothingburger (in terms of US mortality), the Republicans will politicize it. The trade disruption will, somehow, be Democrats’ fault for opposing TPP, or whatever other stupid reason they cook up. The deaths will be due to Obamacare impinging upon the robust function of the invisible hand.
The reality is that a COVID-19 pandemic will highlight one issue where Democrats can win: our fucked-up healthcare system. Sick people will avoid going to the doctor because they don’t have insurance (or good insurance), and they’ll infect others. Our overcrowded emergency departments, still the first point of contact for the sick working poor who don’t have a family physician, will grind to a standstill under the weight of infection precautions. The for-profit urgent care centers that dot the landscape around here will be relatively useless monuments to the greed of the hospital systems that overbuilt them to capture insurance money.
Every single Democratic candidate has a good healthcare plan that would be better than this. M4A is miles ahead of our common disaster.
And then there’s the incompetence, just the sheer stupidity that would lead the State Department to overrule the CDC. Expect more of this in the days and weeks to come.
We need to stick it to Trump on this one – it’s all on his watch and we need to make him own it before his media machine makes it Obama’s Katrina. We have the plans, and we have the competence. For once, that ought to be appreciated.
Don’t forget “Fire a whole bunch of infectious disease experts two years ago and then don’t bother to replace them”.
I’m good with sticking it to ALL the trumpublicans on this one…they’re the ones who have enabled this clown from Day 1
– cuts to CDC while giving huge tax breaks to their wealthy donors?
– complete denial of COVID-19 while trying to prop up the markets (Kudlow, trumpov, others)?
– complete ineptitude from DHS (especially its ‘acting’ director/deputy director)?
– trying to tie epidemic-fighting funding to cuts in home heating assistance?
The TV ads just write themselves. Will any of the Dems have the guts to go there? They sure should.
Not only does Elizabeth Warren have a plan for that, she had a plan weeks ago.
The Trump administration is absolutely bungling the response to coronavirus, putting our public health and our economy at risk. This is why we need a real plan and an adult in charge. Here’s what I think we should be doing.
Glad Warren shows signs of being aggressive about this. If the dingbat moderators try to avoid the issue, and ask a bunch of ‘howugonnapayforit’ and ‘aintuallsocialists?’ GOP talking points, I hope Warren barges in and forces it into the debate.
@Jeffro: looks like Warren is getting ready, and well prepared to do so.
The Noise Machine is blaming China. That high-containment biolab near Wuhan. And common colds are coronaviruses, so there’s nothing to worry about, the whole thing is a fake news hoax.
It isn’t just the healthcare system. It’s the politicized and underfunded CDC, as well as completely incompetent agency heads in this administration. Sadly, that isn’t terribly obvious in a quick check of coronavirus headlines in the MSM.
hells littlest angel
The Trump administration is laser-focused on addressing the coronavirus problem, specifically on finding ways to blame it on Obama.
I noticed yesterday that Klobuchar and Warren tweeted out their plans for pandemic prevention. In both cases the plans were drafted before this crisis, which shows their preparedness for office. I didn’t check the twitter feeds of Sanders, Biden, Buttigieg, & Steyer. Does anyone know if they tweeted out anything substantive yesterday? I could have missed it…but my first impulse was to think that the female candidates dot their i’s and cross their t’s, which is what we need.
Great. Put that in the ads, too, alongside images of trump smooching Xi at Mar-a-yucko and bragging about their great friendship.
Mission: Impossible 7 Halts Production In Italy Due to Coronavirus
I don’t see how a potential pandemic can be turned on Democrats. People blame the President when things go wrong. Bush tried to blame local and state officials with Katrina and it blew up in his face.
Repost from downstairs – Thread.
@hells littlest angel: Anything and everything wrong can be traced back to “the previous administration.” This is a common theme in Trump (and his minions’) speeches.
@hells littlest angel: Heard on the news that Trump is babbling false and dangerous things that are so outrageous, WH is clarifying that he is randomly talking about previous epidemics, just all mixed in with talking about this one, just to make everything clear and OK-dokey. See… Trump actually does know what he’s talking about.
Why is Trump using “YMCA” at his rallies? Am I missing something here?
We will know that our politics are irrevocably broken if there is a downturn and the iron rule of blame for economic distress – that is, the party in the White House gets it – does not apply in November.
Even Trump probably realizes that he’s going to shoulder the blame if bad things happen to the economy, so of course he wants everyone to think everything is fine.
From The Post:
@germy: He and his minions think it says USMCA.
@germy: Why was he using “You Can’t Always Get What You Want”??!
@randy khan: I think the way things are going, there will be a downturn in the economy, with CDC saying, in classified(!?) briefing that the epidemic is unlikely to be contained.
If current estimates on spread and fatality rates come to pass, and strict CDC tracking and quarantine policies can’t delay the spread to US, then the Trumpsters may be on the way to 100K to 400 K excess deaths in the US by the end of the year, mainly among older adults with chronic health conditions.
Not all of that will be Trumpster’s fault, but lack of preparedness will make some of it their fault.
I hope Warren goes apeshit over the Trumpster incompetence and dishonesty tonight.
hells littlest angel
@germy: I don’t know. Men? Christian? Certainly not young.
hells littlest angel
@jl: Kudlow already went on air and told the public that “everything is contained…not airtight but almost totally contained” and also that “while it is a human tragedy, at least it’s not an economic one”
These Dem campaign ads just write themselves, don’t they?
@jl: I hope Warren and everyone else on that stage tonight repeats over and over again, “Worst two day point drop in the history of the stock market.” They should be tweeting it out now.
The Moar You Know
@germy: More to the point, they can’t. Few artists can.
The issuance of a “mechanical license” is compulsory. If you pay the fee, the copyright owner HAS to let you use it. But that doesn’t mean you can use the recording. Just the music (like a cover band).
If you want to use the actual recording, you then have to pay the actual rights owner. Few musicians own the rights to their music (I can only think of two: The Rolling Stones and Madonna). But no big deal, you just throw a few bucks to the corporate entity that does own those rights, and then you can play to your heart’s content.
I guarantee you the Village People (which was a corporate-concocted entity from day one) do not own anything they released. I doubt they even get residuals, because they didn’t write any of it, either.
Trump doesn’t use “You Can’t Always Get What You Want” anymore because the Stones do own ALL the rights to that, and everything else they’ve ever recorded, and when they said “stop” it took a little while to figure that this wasn’t Spingsteen asking Reagan to stop using “Born in the USA”, this request had TEETH. And they’ve stopped, as you no doubt noticed.
@MJS: Might be a good time to point out that Trump’s promise to bring back manufacturing jobs has been a complete bust. I mean exactly nothing, zero, nada, zilch.
But the emphasis should be that corrupt, depraved and irresponsible, and ignorant… and… oh, a whole lot of other pejorative words, may well get a lot of people dead.
there’s the incompetence, just the sheer stupidity that would lead the State Department to overrule the CDC
Dwarfed by the incompetence, the sheer stupidity, that led the Trumpists to spend three years deliberately destroying the nation’s pandemic-protection resources.
The kids and I are scheduled to spend a week in a resort in Aruba in early July. I haven’t had the heart to tell them yet that there’s a good chance that we won’t go — waiting to see how bad it gets in the Western Hemisphere.
Why is Trump using “YMCA” at his rallies?
He is too stupid to understand the subtext, and so are his followers. They think it’s “politically incorrect”.
“This epidemic is Obama’s fault.”
–All Republicans, in unison in about ten days
I was thinking of skipping the debate tonight but now I’m considering watching it.
Trump likely wants an epidemic. He can close the borders. Declare martial law. And the take over is complete.
Plus, could kill off all the kids in his camps. And a lot of Dems in crowded urban centers.
On a lighter note, I read about a regular sounding guy in CA, who might have had business ties in Asia, who decided maybe it couldn’t hurt to lay in 45 days worth of food now. (Guess he wasn’t already earthquake prepared.)
And I thought, you know, that’s not all crazy. I can always eat it or use it if not needed. Not like it’s costing extra.
So I ordered 30 days worth of cat food from Chewy. 1O pounds of organic brown rice from Amazon Pantry. Getting organic black beans. Canned salmon was on sale at the store.
Already had a huge order on its way from Penzey’s Spices.
It’s a start.
It finally occurred to me that maybe I should be worried about my pregnant niece and her husband who are living in Bangkok through the end of the next school year. Guess I’ll check in with my sister, the grandma-to-be.
Thanks all for jogging my memory
@hells littlest angel:
That’s very wicked. But it was my first thought, too.
I guess the upside of Bernie being the nominee is that if Trump tries cancelling the election, Bernie will mobilize his army of Twitter freaks to (checks notes) behead Nancy Pelosi.
@Chyron HR: Yep. It will be taken as proof that the DNC and GOP are exactly the same.
IMHO when any Dem is asked “howugonnapayforit” they should just answer “Mexico”. And not serving military families having their housing budgets slashed so they have to live in slums and kids attend sub standard schools. I bet ex- Pres Fox would deliver a funny response.
@Jeffro: They are willing to sacrifice anything – including their own kids/families – in service to “Sir” Tiwts-A-Lot.
First they suffer PG&E blowing the joint up due to their own incompetence, and now San Bruno has an infestation of cougars. Rrrrrr.
“Honey, I thought I heard something. Go check.”
Small happy dance from here. Go Liz!
@Baud: Wish you were on stage. You have such pithy comebacks.
YMCA is fun to sign along to. I don’t think the audience at Trump rallies is really down with the message about how the YMCA is a great gay meetup spot, but they probably haven’t paid too much attention to the lyrics.
Incitatus for Senate
Worth noting that disposable N95 masks have pretty much vanished from store shelves. Respirators are still available, the reusable plastic/rubber ones with disposable filters, which are about a gazillion times better than the N95s anyway. Many of us folks who like working with tools already have them, and the P100 filters last forever when they are not being used in a cloud of dust.
Read somewhere that a contractor came back from China and out of an abundance of caution he got tested for C-19. Hospital bill was something like $5K. He makes $55K and has no health insurance and is screwed. America, fuck yea we are prepared.
<blockquote class=”twitter-tweet”><p lang=”en” dir=”ltr”>My grandparents raised me and taught me everything I know. So when they lost their house to a con man, I made a promise to myself to make it right when I grew up. <br><br>I’m proud to have kept my word — we need more folks in Washington who keep faith and uphold their promises. <a href=”https://t.co/asjJ00S9lI”>pic.twitter.com/asjJ00S9lI</a></p>— Jaime Harrison (@harrisonjaime) <a href=”https://twitter.com/harrisonjaime/status/1232331685947170817?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw”>February 25, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src=”https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js” charset=”utf-8″></script>
The earthquake preparedness guidelines usually recommend a few days to a couple weeks worth of food. You have to be unusually well prepared to have 45 days worth.
@rikyrah: Wut???? Lost in translation..
And I’d be willing to slap Chuck Todd (who isn’t doing tonight’s debate, but I’d still do it.)
@Baud: OMG You could sell raffle tickets.
Masha Gessen at the NewYorker:
(via Adam Serwer via LOLGOP)
@Baud: (Camera shows empty podium) “Candidate Baud could not make it tonight due to pressing business in Washington.”
@Another Scott: because it is a rocking ode to resentment, and there is nothing his base likes better than resentment and grievance
I’m still flabbergasted by the China example, since it was the expansion of trade and opening up of foreign investment that helped achieve those results. Does Bernie think China is more socialist now than it used to be?
Jamie Harrison is running for a Senate Seat,
I’m going to spend the next six months thinking I’ve come down with the coronovirus every time I need to scratch my nose.
Re: the ER visits by the uninsured, don’t forget that they’ll be going in among vulnerable people, and that it can spread when a patient is asymptomatic.
This is one of the reasons why it’s so blindingly obvious that universal health care is a good thing.
(Another reason? If everyone is covered, insurance companies will have reason, and, “skin in the game”, at spotting and evaluating health risks. If someone’s fracking solution is leaking into the drinking water, right now, *no one cares*, unless/until there’s enough evidence for a lawsuit, which won’t happen until delayed justice is denied justice for a multitude of death, and a huge amount of suffering. The insurance companies will see their bottom lines hit, and probably want to figure out why their careful actuarial calculations have gone so horribly wrong. We might finally get someone pushing the GOP to *STOP LETTING INDUSTRY POISON PEOPLE*. That might seem like a no-brainer, but it’s clearly not, because the GOP has no brain, and still can’t see it. So, call it a 5%-brainer (to avoid that ludicrous meme that we only use 10% of our brains).)
@Jay: Not just any Senate seat – he’s running against Lindsey Graham in SC.
What happens if we ban insurance companies?
After hearing people criticize Warren’s attire, can you blame me?
What happens if we ban insurance companies?
Only outlaws will have insurance.
It’s a play to have China interfere with Russia’s election interference and thus, victory!
He goddamn well needs to pull his ass out of the ’60s if he thinks he’s going to win in November. This ain’t the SDS rally in the quad, pal.
the problem with any comments on Cuba, China, Nicaragua, etc is that any “comment” needs be a full on essay, carefully crafted with cites and footnotes to try to break through the Exceptionalist propaganda, the fake history and the wilful attempts that will be made to twist what is said.
Socialistic benifits in countries the US was/is in conflict with, cannot be mentioned.
Socialistic benifits in Countries that are also longstanding US Allies can also not be reasonably discussed, ‘cause those people ain’t ‘Merkins.
The US MIC as the largest Socialist program on the face of the earth, run for the benifit of Corporations, Politicians, a Military Elite and a tiny segment of the US workforce, also cannot be reasonably discussed.
The lists of what Americans can’t actually talk about, is quite amazing.
@LongHairedWeirdo: I think the problem with this is that folk don’t stay with the same insurance company long term enough for this to work. The insurance folk(as Mayhew has pointed out), try to ride the churn in the market, so they figure that long term issues will end up as another company’s problem.
Has it gotten so bad that hundreds of thousands of amerikans dying and millions in the world via Corona so the fart cloud loses is our hope, here? I hope not! Especially since, as a older …ah, mature person, the illness is a bit more threatening to me (though never having smoked anything and growing up in clean air, increases my odds of recovery, I’d think.)
Yet if these terrible results do come to pass, then if the dems drop the ball on this one, they deserve to lose (and the fake (aka fox) news old folks watching that murdoc shit deserve what will happen to them.)
” After hearing people criticize Warren’s attire, can you blame me? ”
More innovative thinking from Baud 2020! “Criticize my pants? OK, no pants! How do you like me now, jackasses?”
Good that we are talking about this now and preparing for the worst. The crazies like Rush limpballs are making up lies – just a cold being used to hurt Trump. Amazing the stories crazy people make up. Maybe the can pray to their God – oops that was tried in South Korea. Way to spread a virus you dumb ass religiously crazies.
It does surprise me that Trump is not prepared to lead and that he doesn’t have a central leader to inform and coordinate a reasonable response. We know that the Republicans have a problem with science.
I predict that What ever can go wrong will go wrong. A bunch of white males will be shouting and blaming everyone but the dumb jerk in the White House.
My prediction is that the sane response to the health crisis will be handled by the states. The blue states most likely have professionals working on a plan right now. On an individual basis I’ve been planning ahead – we have food for two weeks. we live in a rural area and we have had major storms that knocked out power and cut off out only road out. If you are in a high risk group – then educate yourself. Carry a hand sanitizer – ect. Poor people are going to get hit the hardest.
We have had a lot of warning and the health experts (science again) tell us that the question is not if but when this pandemic will hit the US. How will the Trumpies spend all that money they are demanding? Will they share the money with the states? Or will the blue states like Calif be cut off?
The problem with dismantling the government’s ability to deal with a crisis like this AND the lying liars who now run the country is that the outcome could be like Puerto Rico.
@LongHairedWeirdo: Just another thought: if we’re truly trying to go all Swiss model then have all health insurers be true non-profits. They can be folded into existing insurance companies for other iterations like life etc. But no more profit/rent seeking.
I know. I’m a dreamer. But I’m not the only one…
Long story short, 99% of what has been “reported” is bs. fearmongering and ignorance.
Now that’s just crazy talk.
Ironic if Rush is describing it as a “cold” given than an old, overweight, immuno-compromized dude is dead center in its crosshairs. Know anybody who fits that description, Rush?
Twitler has got to be shitting bricks over the stock markets; if they don’t recoup by the end of March the first quarter reports on people’s 401ks and IRAs are going to look terrible and his approval ratings will tank. It looks like they’re going to go with the Chernobyl action plan of pretending everything is fine because the big boss is in denial and will shoot the messenger. I feel bad for being happy about this. I certainly don’t wish financial losses and deadly illnesses on anyone. But still if it had to happen better now than next January, when it becomes the new president’s fault.
In other words, a massive jolt of capitalism.
in Canada, your extra “private” insurance is ususally with your Employer’s carrier, which might change once a decade. If you are self employed and not on your spouses extra coverage, you will often stay on the same insurer for decades or even life long.
It isn’t a shock to us that the Trump Administration is run by mentally challenged individuals. And I’m trying to be polite by not saying worse. That the rest of America can look at the landscape and still want to vote for Trump or any other Republican tells me Fox News has won.
@Yutsano: “if we’re truly trying to go all Swiss model then have all health insurers be true non-profits. They can be folded into existing insurance companies for other iterations like life etc. But no more profit/rent seeking.”
It won’t be that bad for them. Countries with Swiss style private insurance still allow them profits from two sources. One, they get essentially a ‘normal’ economic profit from managing the claims, but it is not explicitly labeled as such. Since that is an important line of insurance business for many companies in the US now, it they would know how much money they would make from that, just looking at the current fees (David has a few posts on this, a corporation or union bears the actuarial risk, but hires an insurance company to manage the claims and do some management analysis). Two, if they offer the minimum mandatory benefit package contract, then they can sell for profit supplemental insurance.
But, the insurance industry will fight that as hard as M4A. And centrist candidates never get into how strong the regulation would have to be in order to make such a system work, and are never challenged on it. They are allowed to offer vapor plans described by slogans. Which is the huge missing part of a real debate on health care in the US. But, it’s given a pass by corporate media.
@trollhattan: Yes. I was thinking Rush is in no shape to tangle with the coronavirus.
in part. Many factors created Chinas economic rise as a Nation and a “People”. Some were Socialistic, some the product/advantage of a totalitarian Government, some, liberalism, some Capitalistic, some, outside Investment, some the return of emigres, some, the product of short term, poorly thought out Corporate rent seeking and worker disempowerment.
@Jay: I can see some of the mega churches – prosperity gospel folks going to church to pray away their “cold”. The Koreans are very much into the fundamentalist born again/evangelical western type churches. From the news accounts the church in S.Korea was of this category. Remember that the Moonies leader came from Korea.
There are a whole lot of mega churches in the U.S. ripe for spreading this virus.
@The Moar You Know:
What is your definition of “stopped”? “You Can’t Always Get What You Want” was being played at a Trump rally within the last couple of weeks. There was a brief discussion on here about it.
@trollhattan: exactly I’m hoping that a bunch of old white republican men are afflicted because the virus doesn’t care about what you believe, or your cockamamie conspiracies it’s just gonna view you as fresh cell meat and perhaps we can emerge from this emergency with some sort of national basic health care
@Elizabelle: pity… thoughts and prayers
that the close knit church communities and other groups are vulnerable to the spread of any infectious disease, isn’t the story being spun in the US MSM and social media.
it is being “hyped” that they are a doomsday cult when they are not,
this is then used to raise fears and unsubstantiated claims that they are deliberately engaged in spreading the disease globally, to bring about the end of the world, ( along with claims that they have tried this with other diseases in the past).
Yes, they are a Cult of Nutters, but like other insular nutter cults, their Cult practices make them vulnerable, not complicit.
hells littlest angel
@Roger Moore: I often have at least 30 days worth of food on hand, but that’s because i hate going shopping.
Realistically, what does he care? He’s dying of cancer anyway.
@hells littlest angel:
50 cans of soup or whatever per person is just $50…kind of a small price to pay for a little extra peace of mind. Plus if it all blows over, just donate it to a food back this coming holiday season.
The official statements of the CDC are scary enough, if one is an old man whose mother is still alive, and who has three living sisters over 60.
Some, historic and cultural.
Been a while since you paid attention to the cost of canned soup, I wot.
Or maybe you just always buy the supermarket store brand on sale.
@LongHairedWeirdo: I have a co-worker who just spent Saturday with her 91 year old grandmother-in-law waiting in the ER with a possible heart attack while everyone around them was hackimg away with flu symptons. For hours. Best health care system in the world.
@Baud: Their help will not be protected, and will be serving them and cooking their food.
@Jay: I really wish Christian churches would change Communion for a while. My church has ” intinction”, where they dip the wafer in wine and then give it to you. That would work, except that it’s optional, so every other congregant wants to actually drink out of the common chalice that they then dip the next wafer in. It’s nuts.
The Chinese I know from China are pretty hygienic. They prefer bowing to shaking hands. They take their shoes off inside. They madly wash everything (hands, rice, veggies) that we ignore. They wear face masks when they feel poorly.
We could do a lot better by emulating them instead of running in the opposite direction. They have millenia of experience living in high density environments.
@dmsilev: “Because they had Obama cooties.”
Don’t forget that that was the motivating factor for Trump regardless of his administration’s attempt to point the finger at Bolton.
I don’t have permission at this point to talk about it but I am very excited because in a few minutes I am going to start a rush transcription for a conference of people who are working on a coronavirus vaccine. By midnight tonight, I’ll know the latest on where they are on that effort and what things look like now and going forward.
They want timestamps, so I’m guessing we’ll be seeing clips of this on the news and in press releases. Exciting stuff!
@Jay: There is a relationship between the concept of some idiots who might want to cause a pandemic and end of timers.
Many of the evangelical churches are believers in the very soon coming of Christ. They are the believers in the End of time or end of timers. Doomsday cult are the really extreme ones who tend to kill themselves off in suicide pacts (Heaven’s Gate) or they try to force the end of time by killing innocent by standers. The one in Japan using sarin gas in the subway.
Most reporters really don’t understand The difference between cults and The evangelicals, doomsday cults, Moonies, Jim Jones. The US has a hell of a long history with cults. I was raised in one The SDA cult. There are many varieties of evangelicals. Most have turned hard right as many got the taste for politics and control in the 1980s.
The awakening happen around 200 years ago in the US. All of this stupid crap seems to have started in the US and then spread out to the rest of the world via missionaries. Every last person on earth must be told about the second coming before Jesus can return. Somewhere in Daniel or Revelation there is something about something which The evangelical preachers yammer on about – scaring the hell out of children.
The End of time, God is going to rapture born again folks up into the clouds naked. All of these are cults – authoritarian leaders use mind bending techniques to keep people in the cults.
Evangelical refers to the promised second coming of Jesus. The doomsday cults like the one in Japan and others all have a crazy leader who manipulates his followers.
Anyway – Trump’s evangelical followers may want some sort of plague to hit the world. ’cause Jesus. And these creeps get away with child abuse.
FantasyLand by Kurt Andersen is on interesting source on the history of the crazies. New York has had a few female cult leaders going way back. These cults show up in census reports of the era. Mormons show up as well. Interesting research into early American history.
Then the prosperity gospel cults – where does this fit? They are Trump supporters.
@Baud: Chuckles chin beard deserves that and more
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I sure won’t argue with THE expert in my circle of people! And, you illustrate why having either government paid health care, or something like a private option with big reach, has an advantage over stuff like the ACA.
Really, insurance in most cases shouldn’t be a “for profit” business, unless it’s *very* tightly regulated, for the reasons you mention, plus the additional, obvious, issues: unless forbidden, they will delay, deny, and put up barriers to collecting, claims. It should be seen more like a public trust, where, sure, you keep an eagle eye out for fraud, to protect the public, but claims are paid quickly with minimal fuss, because the claims aren’t “OMG, there’s my annual bonus going down the toilet!”
@Yutsano: I’m suddenly wanting to filk “Imagine” to US politics, except for the horrible danger that many in the filk community are big Lennon fans.
(Filking is part of the scifi/fantasy fan community (I believe using “scifi/fantasy” proves I’m *not* a member of the community, so take all this with a grain of fine salt) – often, popular songs are taken, and, a la Weird Al, given new lyrics, like “Tie after Tie” (about Star Wars Tie fighters, but based on the (Cyndi Lauper?)song “Time After Time”). It’s a very friendly community, accepting of those who have little talent (as I know from personal experience), and, honestly, they’re far too friendly to get all het up about a bad filk of Imagine. But some of them love Lennon so much, I’d hate to put them through the stress of beating their initial reaction down :-) . )
Good idea, right up until that two-bit ratfuck soulless criminal Stephen Miller convinces the dumpster fire to declare martial law and start rounding up “the infected” so they can be “quarantined.” Moscow Mitch and Rubberstamp Roberts will be standing right there, nodding and smiling the whole Gaia-damned time.
Be careful what you wish for.