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You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Wednesday Morning Open Thread: After the Brawl

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: After the Brawl

by Anne Laurie|  February 26, 20207:13 am| 257 Comments

This post is in: 2020 Elections, I Can No Longer Rationally Discuss The Sanders Campaign, Open Threads, Warren for President 2020

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Omg Bernie was so shook when they booed his stupid ass. ??

(H/t @josecanyousee) pic.twitter.com/PWsqCRvWLz

— chris evans (@notcapnamerica) February 26, 2020

The consensus I’m seeing is that, whatever might be said about the other candidates, Bernie Sanders did not have a good debate. Buttigieg, Biden, and Bloomberg all did well attacking him — and Warren, praise Murphy the Trickster God, finally got around to pointing out that while her ‘friend’ had some excellent ideas, she had those same ideas plus an actual record of implementing hers.

Oh, so THIS is what Thanksgiving dinners at white people's houses are like

— Elliot Williams (@elliotcwilliams) February 26, 2020

On the other hand, the South Carolina audience did not preserve the decorum suddenly considered desirable by the out-of-their-depth (un)moderators, which at least gave the Bernistas a chance to unleash their second favorite pastime, insisting that the seating had been ‘rigged’. (It was not rigged; people just disagreed with Sanders, unthinkable as that seemed to his supporters.)

This is like if there’d been a big fight scene in Cocoon

— Rebecca Traister (@rtraister) February 26, 2020

Is it me or is everyone trying to be like Warren last week so it’s um chaotic?

— Nelini Stamp ???? (@NelStamp) February 26, 2020

Vince McMahon. https://t.co/GIIrXm6Mnj

— Greg Pinelo (@gregpinelo) February 26, 2020

so everyone complains that the debates are boring when the candidates go back and forth on substance and then everyone complains that it's chaos when the candidates go after each other

— Edward-Isaac Dovere (@IsaacDovere) February 26, 2020

Josh Marshall, at TPM:

… Especially on the first hour it felt like all the contenders finally understood the true terms of the contest and had been given one last two hour chance to level the attacks they wished they’d starting leveling three months ago. The mix of antic questions and desperate attacks made it feel like two hours packed with chaos and bad energy.

Debates only matter inasmuch as they affect the outcome of the race. The rest is just theater criticism about canned answers and yelling. The big question in this primary battle is whether Bernie Sanders builds on his momentum coming out of the first three contests and goes on to a string of victories in Super Tuesday which make it hard for any other candidate to overtake him….

We can talk about who did well, who had what strategy, who should get votes. But this seems like the one operative question, which of these two scenarios happens: Sanders building on his momentum and moving into a dominating lead or Biden using a South Carolina win to check Sanders’ drive and shift the contest to something like a two or three person race.

On those terms I think Biden had about as good a night as he could have hoped for. He himself had a strong debate. But it was more the other things that happened – mainly, Elizabeth Warren continuing to savage Mike Bloomberg; everyone else beating up on Sanders; and Tom Steyer giving a mainly anemic performance. (Steyer may seem like an irrelevancy but he’s actually Biden’s biggest problem in South Carolina.)

Even though it’s usually hyperbole, the next seven days do seem critical for the whole contest.

Things are unlikely to change much before Saturday’s South Carolina primary… although I personally think the Social-Security-eligible candidates should take this opportunity to announce their VP picks, because if Goddess forbid something should happen between now and November (worse: January), I for one would like to know whether it would be Kamala Harris, Julian Castro, or Tulsi Gabbard picking up the fallen torch.

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Reader Interactions

257Comments

  1. 1.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 7:14 am

    Pleased to see that 41 Strange, an account that CONSISTENTLY steals content without crediting (has stolen photos of Barlow ? and refused to even acknowledge me), has been suspended.

    — Amy W. Schwartz  (@lizardschwartz) February 24, 2020

  2. 2.

    debbie

    February 26, 2020 at 7:16 am

    At long last, she turned on Bernie.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 7:17 am

    I hope the good people of South Carolina do right by us.

  4. 4.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 7:18 am

    FWIW, I would have picked Pete as the “winner” in terms of debate performance.

  5. 5.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 7:19 am

    Today, I was on a TV panel about car-free cities. During the interview, I got word that a 10-year-old was killed while walking in East New York just as a fellow panelist and car lobbyist said that there are no known public health risks associated with driving.

    — Danny Harris (@DannyHarris_TA) February 25, 2020

    Every day in America, 100 people are killed in car crashes. Moreover, cars lock people into poverty and debt, choke our cities, pollute our air, remove freedom from our most vulnerable, and convince humans that those who drive are superior to those who don’t.

    — Danny Harris (@DannyHarris_TA) February 25, 2020

    Our cities and residents deserve better than being a pathway or final destination for vehicles. Our cities deserve to be a place where all people have access to safe, equitable, dignified, and sustainable transportation alternatives.

    — Danny Harris (@DannyHarris_TA) February 25, 2020

  6. 6.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 26, 2020 at 7:21 am

    @Baud: I liked Biden, he came across as genial compared to all the shouties on the stage.

    Pete landed the best punches at BS.

    Warren is on track to losing in Massachussetts, her pact of deferring to BS is not working. She is not connecting to people outside her amen chorus.

    Amy was boring

    Steyer needs to go home

    Bloomberg had the lamest punch lines, he too can go home

    Old Shouty is going to give himself another heart attack on the debate stage.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 7:23 am

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Agree.  I thought it was nice, some might view it as weak.

    Still thought Pete had the best night, but he kept going after Bernie after everyone else stopped, so that might be influencing my views.

  8. 8.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 7:23 am

    NBC reporter: “It seemed like you were almost arguing & debating with the crowd.”

    Bernie: “Ahh, interesting question! You know how much a ticket to the debate cost? $1,750. Most working people I know don’t spend $1750 on a debate.”pic.twitter.com/LlErigZzPm

    — Siddak Ahuja (@SiddakAhuja) February 26, 2020

  9. 9.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 7:24 am

    As for the anti-Muslim pogrom happening during his visit? “I didn’t ask him about it. That’s up to India.” https://t.co/l3Bmm4GCT6

    — Matt Duss (@mattduss) February 26, 2020

  10. 10.

    Lapassionara

    February 26, 2020 at 7:24 am

    @Baud: Most of the “good people” in South Carolina are Republicans, and they have been encouraged to vote for Sanders.

  11. 11.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 7:27 am

    Hearing the first gay presidential candidate condemn the "revolutionary politics of the 1960s" is uhhhhhhh something pic.twitter.com/YdouVzxq4M

    — Gillian Branstetter (@GBBranstetter) February 26, 2020

  12. 12.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 7:27 am

    @Baud: Bernie’s assholes are the ones spreading misinformation on social media about Pete and disrupting campaign events for Pete. Not surprised Pete called Bernie’s toxic ass out. But I didn’t watch.

  13. 13.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 26, 2020 at 7:27 am

    @germy: Most working people don’t have a “camp” on Lake Champlain waterfront worth $500,000.

  14. 14.

    rikyrah

    February 26, 2020 at 7:28 am

    Good Morning, Everyone ???

  15. 15.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 7:29 am

    @Lapassionara:

    The vast majority of voters in our primary will be Dems, unless SC Republicans are a lot more organized than in other states.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 7:30 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  17. 17.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 7:30 am

    @germy:

    I think a gay person is allowed to be economically moderate.

  18. 18.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 7:31 am

    @schrodingers_cat:  Politics has been very good to Bernie.  No one would have bought his book if he’d been an unknown adjunct professor in Jane’s college.

    But someones people who own more than one property can still do positive things. FDR was rich.  So was JFK.

    Bloomberg could do something positive.  He could drop out and take his cheering section with him.

  19. 19.

    Betty Cracker

    February 26, 2020 at 7:31 am

    I was grateful for Pete’s comment that there is too much focus on the presidency and that we have to hold the House and flip the Senate to get anything done. So true, Pete!

    Not a Bernie fan, but I’ve been worried about how ill he looks lately, and I thought he seemed better and more energetic last night. Maybe he’s doing his cardiac rehab after all.

  20. 20.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 7:31 am

    @Baud:  The Stonewall Riots were 1969.  And he’s dismissive of 1960s activism?

  21. 21.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 26, 2020 at 7:32 am

    @Baud: Seeing as I skipped it, it sounds like I won.

  22. 22.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 7:32 am

    @germy: well, I was around for the 60s (and he’s talking the late 60s and SDS types, not the civil rights era) and what those revolutionary politics got us was a huge backlash and Nixon and Reagan, so he’s not wrong.

  23. 23.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 7:32 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Agree.  Best comment of the night.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 7:34 am

    @germy:

    Doesn’t have anything to do with what the debate today is about, since all the Dems are good on LGBT issues.

  25. 25.

    E.

    February 26, 2020 at 7:34 am

    My upper-crust book club is full of lefty retired women. We got to talking politics last week and I was dismayed to see their complete dismissal of Elizabeth Warren as even a legitimate candidate. I felt really alone at that moment, and stunned. I think Warren would be an absolutely terrific president, possibly the best I have had an opportunity to vote for in my lifetime. They liked Bloomberg and Klobuchar. Their criticism of Warren was that she was making promises she wouldn’t be able to keep, that she does not know how to implement her programs, and she’s “too radical” to win. They believed Bernie was more prepared for the Presidency than Warren! I was so stunned as to be speechless. I thought the crowd would be 100 percent for her. Really I’m just very confused by the disconnect.

  26. 26.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 7:34 am

    @satby:

    what those revolutionary politics got us was a huge backlash

    Clowns like Jerry Rubin and the yippies were destructive.  We would have been better without them. But I wouldn’t dismiss everyone who marched in the 1960s.

  27. 27.

    rikyrah

    February 26, 2020 at 7:35 am

    Trump spokesman threatens fed’l employees: “the federal government is massive, with millions of people—and there are a lot people out there taking action against this president and when we find them we will take appropriate action.” https://t.co/cyN4eU6lKm— Joyce Alene (@JoyceWhiteVance) February 26, 2020

  28. 28.

    Betty Cracker

    February 26, 2020 at 7:37 am

    @E.: Warren is the most qualified and visionary candidate by a mile in my opinion, so I don’t get it either. She’d be a terrific president.

  29. 29.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 26, 2020 at 7:37 am

    @germy: I am not against capitalism or wealth, the tribune of the masses is. He no longer rails against milliyonaihs if you have noticed.

    Its not his wealth but his hypocrisy that rankles. YMMV.

  30. 30.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 7:38 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: OzarkHillbilly 2020?

  31. 31.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 7:38 am

    @E.: Wow.

  32. 32.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 7:38 am

    @rikyrah: If anyone in Obama’s administration had said anything like that, there would have been angry mobs outside the White House.

    But no one in his administration would have said anything like that.

    I miss having smart, competent people in charge.

  33. 33.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 7:39 am

    @Baud: @Betty Cracker:  he knows without holding the House and getting the Senate,  not much consequential legislation will pass. Wish our citizens were as focussed on that.

  34. 34.

    rikyrah

    February 26, 2020 at 7:40 am

    ???

    This morning’s classified coronavirus briefing should have been made fully open to the American people—they would be as appalled & astonished as I am by the inadequacy of preparedness & prevention.— Richard Blumenthal (@SenBlumenthal) February 25, 2020

  35. 35.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 26, 2020 at 7:40 am

    @Baud: She willingly accepted to be BS second fiddle. That’s how people see her because that’s the image she is projecting to those not in the Warren bubble.

    Even yesterday she was relentlessly attacking Bloomberg and not taking on the man who is beating her in her own backyard.

  36. 36.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    February 26, 2020 at 7:41 am

    I missed last night’s debate so I appreciate the assessments here. I lay awake in the night worrying about the election, my book, and the coronavirus in a rotating order. I feel stressed.

  37. 37.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 7:41 am

    @rikyrah: No fascist!  No fascist!  You’re the fascist!

  38. 38.

    Betty Cracker

    February 26, 2020 at 7:43 am

    The moderating last night was abysmal, IMO. Whatever happens this year, I hope the DNC revisits the way primary debates are handled in the future. Moderating could be done by the League of Women Voters and/or other civic-minded organizations that could be trusted to facilitate an illuminating discussion rather than stage a demolition derby for clicks and pundit hot takes.

  39. 39.

    Emma from FL

    February 26, 2020 at 7:43 am

    @E.: Warren lacks the appropriate equipment. I have given up on expecting to see a female president in my time. Also, “uppercrust”? Meaning I got my tax cut, and my money trumps my politics? yeah.

  40. 40.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 7:43 am

    @schrodingers_cat:

    It’s my biggest disappointment with her campaign. She’s started to be more aggressive last night, but I don’t think it was enough (although she’s accurate that she is better than him in getting things done).

  41. 41.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 7:43 am

    @germy: and neither did Pete. Sanders is a throwback to the yippies types. It’s so obvious to anyone not in his [Sanders’] thrall.

  42. 42.

    p.a.

    February 26, 2020 at 7:43 am

    Can a K. Harris or E. Warren be more effective as veep than in the Senate?  Assuming they remain veeps and don’t ascend, I’d like to hear pros & cons from the hive intellect.  I’m inclined to +Senate.

  43. 43.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 7:44 am

    @schrodingers_cat: Don’t say that too loud.  You might get woken up with a late night phone call yelling at you that Vernont Jesus is the only true savior.

  44. 44.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 26, 2020 at 7:45 am

    @Betty Cracker: Students running a high school or a college newspaper could do a better job than these overpaid bimbos and himbos of TV

  45. 45.

    Cheryl Rofer

    February 26, 2020 at 7:45 am

    I spent the evening with neighbors, checked on Twitter when I got home. There wasn’t much to go on, seems like nobody really “won.” Which got me thinking.

    The following is not a criticism of front-pagers and commenters here. What I see is all horse-race commentary. The media have got us doing it too. What would the candidates do about, say, global warming? A pandemic? Putting a government back in place? None of that seems to have come up, or if it did, the answers were trivial and cut off in the middle.

    We need a President who can do the job, and the debates do not tell us who that is.

    I thought these three tweets summed it up nicely, although I would change the first to “all presidential debates.”

    Primary debates should be run by a neutral party (as neutral as one can get and I don't mean non-partisan) and available for every network to air/stream online

    As others have mentioned, it's a broken process and the networks/DNC have proven they can't handle the responsibility

    — Yashar Ali ? (@yashar) February 26, 2020

    3. And it's time for issue oriented debates for both parties (obviously there isn't a real GOP primary this time around).

    1. Healthcare debate
    2. Economy debate
    3. Foreign Policy/National Security debate
    4. Education debate
    5. Environment debate

    — Yashar Ali ? (@yashar) February 26, 2020

  46. 46.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 7:45 am

    @germy: And decades of Faux News calling Obama a tyrant.  Oh wait, make that centuries.

  47. 47.

    Shalimar

    February 26, 2020 at 7:46 am

    @schrodingers_cat: I don’t know how much $500,000 is on Lake Champlain.  Housing in my area of the Gulf Coast is $600-800 a square foot.  $500k is what smaller middle-class vacation homes cost.

    @Betty Cracker: So true, Pete!  If only we had someone like the mayor of his state’s 3rd largest city to run for one of those House or Senate seats and help us flip them.

  48. 48.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 26, 2020 at 7:47 am

    @mrmoshpotato: OzarkHillbilly for hermit!

  49. 49.

    Betty Cracker

    February 26, 2020 at 7:47 am

    @p.a.: I think Warren would be more effective in the Senate. If she doesn’t win the nomination, she won’t run for president again. Harris is young enough to use the VP job as a stepping stone, and her senate seat would definitely stay blue, whereas Warren’s might not.

  50. 50.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 7:50 am

    @Shalimar:  There’s a house at the end of my street, currently for sale: $699,000.  Nothing special.  It’s just a house, two bathrooms, four bedrooms. Small.

    I have no idea how any young couple just starting out could afford it, unless their parents own car dealerships or something.

  51. 51.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 7:51 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: You want to be elected to a position you already have?

  52. 52.

    E.

    February 26, 2020 at 7:51 am

    @Emma from FL: Maybe “high brow” would be better. We read Paradise Lost last year, we read Shakespeare regularly, just finished Beowulf and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, now reading Antigone. So you know, not a normal book club in this rural, very very very very red county. My not-so-obvious point was, these are pretty educated people.

  53. 53.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 7:51 am

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    What I see is all horse-race commentary.

    And theater criticism.

  54. 54.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 26, 2020 at 7:52 am

    @Shalimar: It’s his 3rd home and Vt is a poor state comparatively speaking. 500,000 would buy you a mansion in most of Vt and fairly average home on Champlain as my cursory forays into Vt real estate market show.

  55. 55.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 7:53 am

    @Shalimar: like Beto, Pete wasn’t going to win in blood red, fundamentalist Indiana. This state might as well be Mississippi. Besides, he’s doing a good job of beating a lot of people with “experience”.

  56. 56.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 26, 2020 at 7:53 am

    @Betty Cracker: Most likely will stay blue. Scott Brown was an aberration. For the most part we have had 2 Dem senators.

  57. 57.

    JMG

    February 26, 2020 at 7:54 am

    @Betty Cracker: The Vice-Presidential nominee’s only job is to help the Presidential nominee get elected, period. Warren does little to help Sanders there.  Harris would definitely help. Bernie may be too dim to get it, but he needs a VP choice popular with the imaginary “establishment” (most Democrats) he loathes.

  58. 58.

    Chyron HR

    February 26, 2020 at 7:55 am

    @germy:

    Bernie, do we need to have another talk about the third mansion you inherited, you hypocritical old bastard?

  59. 59.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 26, 2020 at 7:55 am

    @mrmoshpotato: Can one be elected by an absence of votes?

  60. 60.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 7:55 am

    @Betty Cracker: agreed. I don’t want any Senators lost due to this campaign, unless they’re elected President. But Harris’s seat would stay blue, so VP would be ok. I think her talents would be a bit wasted though.

  61. 61.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 7:57 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yes.  Looks who’s in the people’s house as a result of absence of votes.

  62. 62.

    Amir Khalid

    February 26, 2020 at 7:58 am

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    This. It’s frustrating to see jackals fretting about how candidate A fared in the rankout contest versus candidates B and C. People, being good at zinging other candidates doesn’t mean squat when they put you in the Oval Orifice and you have to do the POTUS job. Trump was good at zinging his rivals, so good that he sank them all, and what kind of president has he been?

  63. 63.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 7:59 am

    @Chyron HR: Can I spend the next 5 minutes railing against billionaires?!

  64. 64.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 7:59 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I would definitely vote for you, but I couldn’t find the Hermitage polling place.

  65. 65.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 26, 2020 at 7:59 am

    @mrmoshpotato: Not a complete absence of votes.

  66. 66.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 26, 2020 at 8:00 am

    @Immanentize: That is not an accident.

  67. 67.

    snoey

    February 26, 2020 at 8:00 am

    @satby: Sanders was one of the humorless newspaper sellers who were around the fringes of the demonstration with smeary tabloids going on about some incomprehensible intra-socialist issue.

    Yippies had weed.

  68. 68.

    Shalimar

    February 26, 2020 at 8:03 am

    @schrodingers_cat: I think 3rd home is a better attack than the value of his vacation home, since so many people in the middle class have vacation homes.  The best attack is that Jane made a large profit for herself and her family by possibly criminally mismanaging an old college into oblivion, but no one is going to go there.

  69. 69.

    Don Beal

    February 26, 2020 at 8:03 am

    I too was around for the 60’s and participated in the antiwar/ anti stupid norms of the day. It changed, society for the better for generations. Of course there was backlash. Reactionary forces  always pop up when the predominate view is challenged. Feminism, civil rights, reproductive freedom and more got off the ground because of those disturbing “clowns”.  Movements for change do not usually grow from within the existing power structure. Today, a corrupt DNC, so blatantly for sale, is hopelessly lost. Thus Warrens reluctance to make war on Sanders only reinforces my view that she is in it for the good of the Country. Props to her.

  70. 70.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:03 am

    @Cheryl Rofer: I think the debates are an almost total waste of time. I hope the DNC revamps them to one or two issue oriented ones only. And discussions here have been a serious frustration of mine because people opine on candidates based on gut reactions and Twitter hot takes instead of research on their positions and plans on problems facing the country.

  71. 71.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 8:04 am

    @Immanentize: It’s on Hermitage.

  72. 72.

    Van Buren

    February 26, 2020 at 8:04 am

    @E.: I am also gobsmacked by the lack of support for Warren by the liberal professional women I am in contact with. Yet to hear a good explanation .

  73. 73.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 26, 2020 at 8:04 am

    Where women rule: the last matriarchy in Europe – in pictures

    Big Heart, Strong Hands is the story of women on the isolated Estonian islands of Kihnu and Manija in the Baltic Sea. Often viewed as the last matriarchal society in Europe, the older women there take care of almost everything on land as their husbands travel the seas

  74. 74.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 8:04 am

    @E.:

    just finished Beowulf

    Ignoring the universal advice to avoid any group where that is a topic?

    I am not surprised about your group. It sounds like Warren is in many ways “one of them”, so easier to criticize. Jessica Valenti (I think it was) said something like, “Second wave feminists got so used to criticizing their mothers that it became a habit and now they spend their time criticizing their daughters.”

  75. 75.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:05 am

    @snoey: LOL, truth!

  76. 76.

    Shalimar

    February 26, 2020 at 8:06 am

    @satby: He was popular enough to become mayor of South Bend, so I’m not convinced Pete couldn’t have won a House seat.  But that’s beside the point.  If he’s so ambitious that he thinks he should run for president in his 30s with such a slim resume, which he obviously is, then he should have moved to an area where his career would have had more room for advancement.  He’s not far from Chicago.

  77. 77.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    February 26, 2020 at 8:06 am

    @JMG:

    I now have more sympathy for my parents who  used to demand to know who the hippies meant by “the establishment.” They suspected it was them, and they were right. I now suspect Sanders is talking about me, which makes it hard for me to be really enthusiastic about him even though I agree with most of his goals.

  78. 78.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 8:06 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Ah.

  79. 79.

    Cheryl Rofer

    February 26, 2020 at 8:07 am

    @satby: I largely scroll through the candidate discussion threads because I learn nothing from them beyond people’s reactions.

  80. 80.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 8:07 am

    @Don Beal:   I used the term “clowns” to describe people like Jerry Rubin, not the good people who marched and worked for civil rights, reproductive freedom, gay rights, and peace.

    I remember Rubin running around as a yuppie, later in his career.  He contributed nothing.

  81. 81.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 8:08 am

    @snoey: And a sense of humor.  Remember the dollars at the stock exchange prank?

  82. 82.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 8:10 am

    I don’t think you’re going to see substantive issue debates or campaigns in a populist era.

  83. 83.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:12 am

    @Don Beal: and reactionary backlash is diminished when the social change is brought about by consensus, some of which was built by demonstrating. I also was a part of many of those. But the tail end of the 60s had more destructive elements latch onto the progressive movements of the day, and we’re watching in real time the outcome of 50 years of backlash. A backlash we liberals didn’t really pay attention to, because we thought the argument won.

  84. 84.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 26, 2020 at 8:12 am

    BTW Violence and arson against Muslim properties continues unabated for the 4 the day in the nation’s capital Delhi as a result of the BJP led anti-Muslim pogrom. More than 20 are dead. While our President lends legitimacy to the murderous Modi regime by praising Modi for religious tolerance. Meanwhile in Balloon Juice land our bloghost can’t sleep at night because the xenophobic bigot didn’t eat some snacks  at the tea served by the mass murderer.

  85. 85.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 8:13 am

    “In 2012, [Bloomberg] scooped in to try to defend another Republican senator against a woman challenger. That was me. It didn’t work, but he tried hard. I don’t care how much money Mayor Bloomberg has, the core of the Democratic Party will never trust him.”
    – Elizabeth Warren:

  86. 86.

    Ocotillo

    February 26, 2020 at 8:13 am

    Man whoever the nominee ends up being, this election is so damn critical!

    1.  Trump must be removed before he can do more damage to the country and our way of life.
    2. The House majority needs to be retained.
    3. The Senate needs to be flipped to the Dems.
    4. Getting the above 3 allows for judicial appointments of which it is likely there will be some for the SOCTUS.
    5. The thing no one is emphasizing, this is when the state legislatures will be elected that will conduct redistricting.

    Lose and we really are screwed.  Things are bad now and getting worse but you ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

  87. 87.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:14 am

    @Shalimar: you must be a very true progressive, since you’re all set to dictate how people you don’t even know should live their lives.

  88. 88.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 8:14 am

    @germy: Rubin was no dummy. He was a very early investor in Apple. So everyone thank the Yippies for their MACs and iPhones.

  89. 89.

    JMG

    February 26, 2020 at 8:14 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: The problem with Bernie is that in his mind, the “establishment” is the same one he was mad at in the ’60s, despite the fact all of those people are long dead. He cannot move on from ANYTHING, and as a candidate for President is happiest when he can have NYC coffeehouse arguments from 1965 at the top of his lungs. Too bad he was just a little too old for the sex, drugs and rock n’roll era. Would’ve done him a world of good.

  90. 90.

    SFAW

    February 26, 2020 at 8:15 am

    @E.:

    “Well-educated” (per a subsequent comment of yours) does not necessarily translate to smart or having any (common) sense.

  91. 91.

    Ramalama

    February 26, 2020 at 8:15 am

    @schrodingers_cat: I know everyone here loathes / is exasperated by Bernie, but the argument about the $700K house might not be the best reason. Burlington and surrounding areas, has been experiencing insane ‘growth’ in cost of living, housing prices.  I used to drive through Vermont every week for a decade and I saw the prices creeping up. A recent visit to Burlington has given me vertigo, skyrocketing prices.

    When I lived in a neighboring state, in a small working-class village, the neighbors across the street from me bought a house for $500K only to tear it down and build a new house. It stood on a postage stamp sized lot. That was 15 years ago.

    How must Democratic Socialists live? Squalor? Abject poverty?

  92. 92.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 8:15 am

    Nancy by Olivia Jaimes for Sat, 22 Feb 2020 https://t.co/NlSA91WHZA pic.twitter.com/iU2huCXgy7

    — Nancy (@SluggoIsLit) February 22, 2020

  93. 93.

    NotMax

    February 26, 2020 at 8:16 am

    @Immanentize

    Concentrating on levitating the Pentagon.

    Good times, good times.

  94. 94.

    Betty Cracker

    February 26, 2020 at 8:17 am

    @schrodingers_cat: What a shitty thing to say.

  95. 95.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 8:18 am

    @Immanentize:

    Rubin was no dummy.

    He certainly was no dummy.  He was an opportunist.

  96. 96.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:20 am

    @schrodingers_cat: I think you completely missed the point of John’s post.

  97. 97.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 8:22 am

    @NotMax: Pigasus? poor little squeaker.

    understudies of Ionesco.

  98. 98.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 8:23 am

    @Ocotillo:

    1. The thing no one is emphasizing, this is when the state legislatures will be elected that will conduct redistricting.

    Good point.

  99. 99.

    Matt

    February 26, 2020 at 8:24 am

    I agree with what a previous commenter has said, beyond getting rid of caucuses because they are undemocratic and just a hot mess, why are we putting up with the undemocratic nature of the democratic primary debates.  We need to push the candidates (ALL THE CANDIDATES) to get rid of network-run debates, they are not informative, they are repetitive, and honestly, they are all about making fake problems/attacks happen, versus introduce and flesh out the policy specifics of each candidate.  Say what you will about Bernie’s Medicare for All Plan, but have we really heard about the other candidates plans in depth much?  About their climate change plans?  About really anybody but the frontrunner at the the time’s plan?  The way we’re allowing this corporate capture of our debate process is madness, and also, a lot of the debates have been crap because they’ve been run by TV networks.  Tell your candidate (orcandidates if you haven’t decided yet like me) to change this undemocratic process for next time.

  100. 100.

    Ken

    February 26, 2020 at 8:26 am

    @NotMax: IIRC from my one reading of the Illuminatus trilogy, levitating the Pentagon was a cover story.  The real plan was to draw a circle around the pentagram, which would release what it was holding.

  101. 101.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:26 am

    @NotMax: howdy! Been hoping to see you. Three words: Instant Pot rice pudding. Try it!

    Edit: ok, four words

  102. 102.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 8:27 am

    @germy: You say that like it’s a bad thing.

  103. 103.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 8:28 am

    @Ken: Underwater Nazis?

  104. 104.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    February 26, 2020 at 8:29 am

    Dems got the same problem as the GOPers, too many old people who need to just retire and seem to be there just to block the younger people.

    And if Bernie is shocked people bood him, WTF does that idiot think is going to happen to him when he gets the nomination?

  105. 105.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 8:30 am

    @NotMax: On another point, did you watch Hunters?  I’m watching it now.  As I am approximately Jonah’s age, it has some odd 1977 resonance.

  106. 106.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 8:30 am

    @satby: Good. golly. Miss. Molly.

  107. 107.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 8:30 am

    @JMG:  He’s younger than John Lennon.

  108. 108.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 8:31 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Dump will treat him with kid gloves.

  109. 109.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:31 am

    @JMG: He cannot move on from ANYTHING, and as a candidate for President is happiest when he can have NYC coffeehouse arguments from 1965 at the top of his lungs.

    And his cult cites that as a positive ?. He’s been consistent for decades. Even though they would hate to deal with someone so stuck in the past IRL.

  110. 110.

    Ken

    February 26, 2020 at 8:33 am

    @Immanentize: I don’t remember and have absolutely no intention of re-reading the thing.  Wait a minute, I don’t have to do either.  Google says… Yog-Sothoth under the Pentagon!?  And the underwater Nazis were in Bavaria.  How much hash did Shea and Wilson consume while writing this?

  111. 111.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 8:33 am

    so the Immp and I were talking about the election —

    Me: Why do so many young people support Bernie? He is so old and angry.
    Immp: Don’t you think young people have plenty of reasons to be very angry?

    Fair point.

  112. 112.

    Professor Bigfoot

    February 26, 2020 at 8:33 am

    @Baud: But didn’t the SC Republicans cancel their primary?

    Seems like a good step in setting up the ratfuck…

  113. 113.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 8:33 am

    @Immanentize:  People like him show up at every movement.  They draw the attention to themselves and their stunts.  It does a disservice to hardworking people trying to create real progress. And the clownshow gives the media cover to mock all protesters. His clownshow contributed to the reactionary backlash.

    “But he made a ton of money in the stock market!”  Yes, I’ll give him that.

  114. 114.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 26, 2020 at 8:33 am

    @germy: Ahem. John Lennon is forever 40.

  115. 115.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 8:33 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    “Largest voter turnout in history.”

    Meanwhile, the 2020 primary has less turnout than 2008, so far.

  116. 116.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:35 am

    @Immanentize: point out to him that Trump and his voters are pretty fucking angry too. And where has that gotten us?

  117. 117.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 8:35 am

    @Immanentize:

    Sounds like a justification for Trump supporters TBH (although we would reject their reasons for being angry).

    ETA: satby and I are in sync.

  118. 118.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 8:35 am

    @Ken: A sufficient amount.  But not too much to make actual writing impossible.

  119. 119.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 8:37 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:  Right, should have said “he was born after John Lennon.”

  120. 120.

    different-church-lady

    February 26, 2020 at 8:37 am

    All this so that Sanders can inexplicably win S. Carolina and then spend the general campaign trying to reform Stalin in the American mind.

  121. 121.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 8:38 am

    @satby: Consistently living in the 60’s. :)

  122. 122.

    ellenr

    February 26, 2020 at 8:38 am

    @Don Beal: Thank you for this.

  123. 123.

    Professor Bigfoot

    February 26, 2020 at 8:38 am

    @p.a.: Harris is from California; and will almost certainly be replaced by another solid Democrat.

    Warren is from Massachusetts, which currently has a Republican governor; so her replacement would be a net loss in the Senate.

    IMHO, of course

    [edit: what Betty said.]

  124. 124.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 8:38 am

    @different-church-lady:

    Stalin turned the USSR into a superpower.

  125. 125.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 8:39 am

    @satby: That’s one of the things he is particularly angry about.

    What I said actually was that he was right about reasons to be angry, but that Sander’s anger objects don’t align with his (climate disaster, tech anarchy, no future). He agreed. He is no Sanders puppet.

  126. 126.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:40 am

    @mrmoshpotato: my favorite of the many recipes because you don’t have to cook the rice first. Followed the directions exactly, and it was spectacular. But next time I may cut about 1/3 cup off of the milk total, because I like a firmer pudding.

    Hmm, was that TMI?

  127. 127.

    Professor Bigfoot

    February 26, 2020 at 8:40 am

    @Cheryl Rofer: I’d like to see a “Voting Rights/Civil Rights/What will we do about burgeoning white supremacy?” debate…

  128. 128.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 8:40 am

    Rivals pepper Sanders with barrage of attacks
    For a moment, I thought I was reading the Boxing News.

  129. 129.

    NotMax

    February 26, 2020 at 8:40 am

    @satby

    Rice pudding is what the great-grandparents would chow down on when their teeth were in another room.

    :)

    Do have an airtight sealed container in the fridge of dried apricots I’ve had soaking in brandy for a long, long time. Chopped some up to use to make an apricot-raisin loaf in the super duper bread machine just last week. Slices real good eatin’ when spread with a non-skimpy shmear.

  130. 130.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 8:40 am

    @Ken: Isn’t it a little early in the day to have gone completely mad? :)

  131. 131.

    Betty Cracker

    February 26, 2020 at 8:41 am

    @Immanentize: Immp is right, and his answer tracks with what I’m hearing from young folks who support Sanders. Yes, anger drives Trump voters too, but their misplaced rage is about white men no longer being centered in a changing world, whereas young folks are angry about their future prospects — material and even the very existence of life on this planet — being blighted by selfish, short-sighted greed-heads. I’d say the young folks’ anger is more than justified, even though I’m not on board with their remedy.

  132. 132.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:41 am

    @Immanentize: He is no Sanders puppet.

    never thought he would be, he’s a smart kid.

  133. 133.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 8:42 am

    @Immanentize:

    He is no Sanders puppet.

    I wonder what it’s like to be a young who doesn’t support Sanders.

  134. 134.

    Chyron HR

    February 26, 2020 at 8:43 am

    What the fuck is Bernie doing at 0:30 in the Chris Evans video? “This is the black power salute! I invented this when I was the leader of the civil rights movement!”

  135. 135.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 8:43 am

    O’Keef strikes again:

    ABC News suspends veteran correspondent after Project Veritas sting

  136. 136.

    SFAW

    February 26, 2020 at 8:44 am

    @Immanentize:

    Fair point.

    No it isn’t Kids today have it SOOO much easier these days. None of THEM has to walk 25 miles to school, uphill (in both directions), through the Blinding Blizzards in July. And do they have to to shovel coal into the too-small furnace — not much bigger than one of them camping lanterns, actually — just to keep their fingers from falling off?

    Anyway, it sounds like you guys are still on your trip, yes? I hope it’s going great. [I haven’t been here much lately.] Best wishes to you and Immp.

  137. 137.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:44 am

    @Baud: ? I am a Baudy after all.

  138. 138.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 26, 2020 at 8:44 am

    @germy: The battle was mighty but in the end I could not resist my inner pedant.

  139. 139.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 8:46 am

    @Professor Bigfoot: Warren’s replacement would be, at a maximum, for 150 days when a new election would be called.

    Remember Senator Mo Cowan from Mass? I do because he went to Northeastern Law School; but he was the interim Senator appointed by Patrick when Kerry stepped down to become Secretary of State. Ed Markey (my then-Rep.) Went on to win the Senate seat in the special. Mo was a Senator for about six months. Very nice guy. Now has a lifetime Senate salary.

  140. 140.

    snoey

    February 26, 2020 at 8:46 am

    @Professor Bigfoot: Mass has a special election to fill the vacancy.

  141. 141.

    Shalimar

    February 26, 2020 at 8:47 am

    @satby: Thanks for the slur.  That is the only possible explanation.

  142. 142.

    Another Scott

    February 26, 2020 at 8:48 am

    @germy: Unpossible!!  Heartwarming gifs want to be Free and Uncredited!!

    /snark

    Actually, this is important.  People need to be able to make a living, and people stealing stuff and posting it as theirs hurts real people.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  143. 143.

    chopper

    February 26, 2020 at 8:49 am

    @rikyrah:

    no, we have to keep the briefings classified. we don’t want the virus knowing our strategy.

  144. 144.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:49 am

    @Immanentize: Now has a lifetime Senate salary.

    Hmm, maybe that’s another thing that should change. The rest of us very seldom get pensions even after decades of work, much less six months.

  145. 145.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 8:50 am

    @Another Scott:  A few weeks ago, Cheryl actually warned us about that place, which is why it stuck in my mind.

  146. 146.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 8:50 am

    @Baud: There are many young who don’t like Sanders — he is the choice of the crowd.  So, if there is any iconoclast in you, Sanders is just an old shouty white guy.  The Immp started out  pro-Sanders in 2016, but my wife set him straight on that! He started out Yang gang this time around, largely because of the minimum guaranteed wage arguments. He is probably Warren now, but misses having a tech bro in the mix.

  147. 147.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:50 am

    @Shalimar: “true progressive” is a slur? Who knew?

  148. 148.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 8:50 am

    Angry people, when they achieve political power, get angrier.

  149. 149.

    WaterGirl

    February 26, 2020 at 8:51 am

    @satby:

    And discussions here have been a serious frustration of mine because people opine on candidates based on gut reactions and Twitter hot takes instead of research on their positions and plans on problems facing the country.

    That’s a pretty great sentence.

  150. 150.

    Another Scott

    February 26, 2020 at 8:51 am

    @germy: That struck me, also too.

    Really, Pete?  You want to go there??

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  151. 151.

    Professor Bigfoot

    February 26, 2020 at 8:52 am

    @Immanentize:
    @snoey:

    Ahhhh, that’s good.

    Of course, I expect Republicans to come up with some way to ratfuck it; but then, I expect them to ratfuck everything. ?

  152. 152.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 8:54 am

    @SFAW:Trip starts March 12. Covid19 allowing.

  153. 153.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 8:54 am

    @satby: Who wants watery rice pudding?

  154. 154.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:55 am

    @chopper: what’s classified is all the gaps in preparation due to TOTUS’s decimation of our CDC.

  155. 155.

    different-church-lady

    February 26, 2020 at 8:56 am

    @mrmoshpotato: Not if you never went to bed.

  156. 156.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 8:57 am

    @Professor Bigfoot: Gov. Baker (R) could win in a special.  Maybe.  But he is just not the type of ass who would appoint himself to the interim Senate seat.  Nor does he want to be anything but Governor, I think.  The rest of the MA GOP has gone Trumpilstiltskin

  157. 157.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 8:57 am

    @mrmoshpotato: ?

  158. 158.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 8:57 am

    @NotMax: That was too much information.

  159. 159.

    Jinchi

    February 26, 2020 at 8:58 am

    @Baud: the 2020 primary has less turnout than 2008

    A little early to make that claim. We’ve had two caucuses and 1 primary.

    After a lackluster showing in Iowa, Democrats flooded New Hampshire’s polling places. By Tuesday night, it was clear that turnout would surpass the 254,780 votes cast in the 2016 Democratic presidential primary. And on Wednesday, the record 288,672 votes cast in 2008 fell.

  160. 160.

    Kathleen

    February 26, 2020 at 8:59 am

    @Betty Cracker: Yes this please. Back to Lurk Land.

  161. 161.

    NotMax

    February 26, 2020 at 8:59 am

    @Immanentize

    Six months is not enough length of service to become vested in the Senate pension plan. Number of years required varies (see .pdf file) but is never less than 5 years of federal service.

  162. 162.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 9:01 am

    @germy: What fresh garbage is this?  Seriously – the Post won’t let me read it.

  163. 163.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 9:01 am

    @Jinchi:

    Ok, I didn’t realize NH was so high.  Maybe it’s just caucuses then.  OTOH, 2008 was open for both parties.  And this FTA:

    Takeaway: most of Dems’ turnout increase was attributable to Kasich/Rubio types crossing over from ’16 GOP primary – not heightened progressive/Sanders base enthusiasm.

  164. 164.

    O. Felix Culpa

    February 26, 2020 at 9:01 am

    @Cheryl Rofer: Amen to both your comments and the attached tweets. I think the probable suboptimal outcome of this year’s Democratic primary is at least in part due to these godawful poorly managed debates.

  165. 165.

    Shalimar

    February 26, 2020 at 9:01 am

    @satby: To me, “true progressive” has become a synonym for “belligerent asshole Sanders supporter”, so yeah.  Among the worst things you can say to someone.

  166. 166.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 9:02 am

    I know Fat Tuesday is over, but I still have cream cheese paczkis left. Plus half a muffaletta sandwich. I’m a serious observer of Fat Tuesday.

  167. 167.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 9:03 am

    @SFAW:

    None of THEM has to walk 25 miles to school, uphill (in both directions), through the Blinding Blizzards in July. And do they have to to shovel coal into the too-small furnace — not much bigger than one of them camping lanterns, actually — just to keep their fingers from falling off?

    Well that’s a new spin on an old tale! LOL

    You forgot about the ceaselessly attacking ninja baboons.

  168. 168.

    germy

    February 26, 2020 at 9:04 am

    @mrmoshpotato:  I couldn’t get many details from the article.  All I know is the reporter was suspended

  169. 169.

    Morzer

    February 26, 2020 at 9:04 am

    @Ramalama:

    How must Democratic Socialists live? Squalor? Abject poverty?

    Just the one Winter Palace.

  170. 170.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 9:05 am

    @Jinchi: that of course was just the Democratic primary numbers.  Ratfucking was extreme:. (same article)

    While the numbers in New Hampshire are promising for Democrats, it is worth noting that the first-in-the-nation primary allows voters registered with neither party to vote in whichever primary they choose. With an uncompetitive primary on the Republican side, independent voters were free to vote in the Democratic primary.

  171. 171.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 9:07 am

    @Shalimar: possibly you shouldn’t prescribe what someone else should do to satisfy your requirements of how they should live their lives, then you might not get confused for something you aren’t.

    The guy meets the constitutional requirements for office. Vote or don’t vote for him as you please.

  172. 172.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 9:08 am

    @Baud:

    On that note, WTF happened to Kasich? He used to be all over the TV as the reasonable Republican against Trump.

  173. 173.

    Kathleen

    February 26, 2020 at 9:08 am

     

    @Baud: Al Giordano’s take is that she’s smart to focus on Bloomburg whom he sees as Biden’s biggest competitor right now and let other candidates deal with Bernie, though he was not saying she’s trying to help Biden. Now I’m back to lurking

  174. 174.

    Another Scott

    February 26, 2020 at 9:09 am

    @Immanentize:

    Looks like Senators are in FERS and that requires 5 years vesting for benefits.

    HTH.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  175. 175.

    Another Scott

    February 26, 2020 at 9:10 am

    @NotMax: Ah, I’m late again.

    ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  176. 176.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 9:10 am

    @Kathleen: I don’t know.  I know what I’d like to see, but I also know I’m no where near where most voters are.

  177. 177.

    Jinchi

    February 26, 2020 at 9:11 am

    @Baud:  I thought turnout was lower this year, too. The idea seems to have permeated the general subconcious.

    When I looked it up, the top links had titles like “Trouble for Democrats” and “Turnout Down for Young Voters”. A closer look showed they were referencing exit polls, were written before the votes were counted and the links were to RedState and Breitbart. We’ll know more about enthusiasm in a week. Until them, I’m going to assume we’ll have 2018 levels of interest.

  178. 178.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 9:12 am

    @satby: I’ll mark you down for “No way in hell!”

  179. 179.

    Morzer

    February 26, 2020 at 9:12 am

    Speaking of Sanders and the angry, mobilized youth, some wicked smaht people crunched a bit of data and there’s good news and there’s bad news:

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/25/21152538/bernie-sanders-electability-president-moderates-data

  180. 180.

    NotMax

    February 26, 2020 at 9:13 am

    @SFAW

    You had coal? And a furnace?

    We had to scrounge empty sardine tins and search for still warm ashes in neighborhood alleyway ashcans.

    :)

    Which, more seriously, leads me to recommend a pretty decent documentary about living through the Depression available on Prime, When the World Breaks.

  181. 181.

    sdhays

    February 26, 2020 at 9:13 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I think you’re over-prepared.

  182. 182.

    SFAW

    February 26, 2020 at 9:14 am

    @Immanentize:

    If you had Obama’s time machine, you coulda left already.

    Anyway, thanks for correcting me. I hope you guys have a great trip!

  183. 183.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 9:14 am

    @satby: Are…are you complaining? :)

  184. 184.

    Morzer

    February 26, 2020 at 9:14 am

    @NotMax:  You had warm ashes?  I always knew you belonged to the bohemian hipster demographic!

  185. 185.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 9:15 am

    @germy: Gotcha.  Thanks.

  186. 186.

    SFAW

    February 26, 2020 at 9:16 am

    @mrmoshpotato:

    You forgot about the ceaselessly attacking ninja baboons.

    That’s because my neighborhood was too dangerous for them, they woulda been turned into dinner, or a late night snack — if we had cooking facilities, such as a fire.

  187. 187.

    SFAW

    February 26, 2020 at 9:17 am

    @NotMax:

    We had to scrounge empty sardine tins and search for still warm ashes in neighborhood alleyway ashcans.

    Pure luxury! Etc., etc.

    Bleedin’ Yorkshiremen.

  188. 188.

    frosty

    February 26, 2020 at 9:17 am

    @Kathleen: Back to lurking twice in one post? We may have to revoke your Lurker’s License. :-)

  189. 189.

    NotMax

    February 26, 2020 at 9:18 am

    @SFAW

    Mmm, baboon sashimi.

    Well, it would be if we’d had a knife.

    :)

  190. 190.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 9:18 am

    @NotMax: But were you happy?

  191. 191.

    Chris Johnson

    February 26, 2020 at 9:19 am

    @E.:

    My upper-crust book club is full of lefty retired women

    they liked Bloomberg and Klobuchar

    See, the word giving you trouble there is ‘lefty’. You are looking at wealthy right-wing people who happen to have some socially liberal idiosyncracies. You are NOT looking at lefties, or really Democrats in a traditional sense, and the reason they want Bloomberg is they are essentially the same as Trump voters, IGMFY protecting their privilege.

    There are very few of those people in the USA compared to those at risk from a Trump/Bloomberg style Presidency. (I’m not going to include Klobuchar: good for them for also considering a Democrat)

  192. 192.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 9:20 am

    @SFAW: LOL

  193. 193.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 26, 2020 at 9:20 am

    @Betty Cracker: It is the truth. An American President had no business going there in the first place. Especially after Kashmir and the citizenship bill, lending American legitimacy to Modi’s second term is the outrage. Not the boorish as expected behavior from the Orange One.

    I disagreed with our blog host, I expected more of him.  My bad.

    I have been reading of people being burned alive in their homes from 85 years olds to infants just because they are Muslim, all of yesterday and the past few days. One instance is worse than another.

    @satby: Just because I don’t agree does not mean I don’t understand what is being said.  I love your condescension BTW.

  194. 194.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 26, 2020 at 9:20 am

    @sdhays:  Prepared??? Boy Scouts are prepared. Preparation for a Hillbilly is having somebody to hold my beer.

  195. 195.

    NotMax

    February 26, 2020 at 9:21 am

    @Morzer

    Yeah, the quintessence of hep. Not to mention the bee’s pajamas and the cat’s knees.

    :)

  196. 196.

    Chyron HR

    February 26, 2020 at 9:22 am

    @Chris Johnson:

    they are essentially the same as Trump voters, IGMFY protecting their privilege.

    I thought Bernie said that Trump voters are the downtrodden proletariat who’ve been abandoned by liberal identity politics.  Is that statement no longer operative?

  197. 197.

    Morzer

    February 26, 2020 at 9:23 am

    @NotMax: 

    There’s good eating on a cat’s knee. Of course, the rest of the small, furry menace tends to be unhelpful.

  198. 198.

    Jinchi

    February 26, 2020 at 9:24 am

    @Immanentize: it is worth noting that the first-in-the-nation primary allows voters registered with neither party to vote in whichever primary they choose.

    Note they don’t cite any evidence that Republicans crossed over in large numbers, just that it’s possible. Every election we hear suggestions that trolls are going to cross over, and to that extent this problem is baked into the averages. And this is hardly unique to New Hampshire. Changing registration is trivial in many states. In California, you can switch parties, vote and switch back on the same day.

    And I know it sounds crazy, but there are actually a few Republicans who don’t want Trump re-elected, and yes some will vote in the Democratic primary in hopes that someone like Biden will be the nominee, rather than a socialist.

  199. 199.

    Morzer

    February 26, 2020 at 9:24 am

    @Chyron HR:   Bernie was misquoted by the millionaire B. Sanders who sometimes impersonates him.

  200. 200.

    Geminid

    February 26, 2020 at 9:25 am

    Buttegiege could make a run at Mike Braun’s Indiana senate seat in 2022. Joe Donnelly held it 2012-18, did not lose it by too much. And Braun is thoroughly mediocre.

  201. 201.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 9:26 am

    @Chyron HR: You mean ones who only voted for Dump because they were upset about INCOME INEQUALITY?

  202. 202.

    Shalimar

    February 26, 2020 at 9:29 am

    @satby: I understand you’re tired of constantly defending his lack of experience.  But “sit down and shut up. you get to vote, not talk about why” doesn’t seem like what you really believe.

  203. 203.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 9:30 am

    Well this is fun.

    Jane Sanders on Russian TV. Imagine that https://t.co/vLF32tNPCI— Hillary Warned Us (@HillaryWarnedUs) February 26, 2020

  204. 204.

    Chris Johnson

    February 26, 2020 at 9:31 am

    @Chyron HR: Don’t ask me, man, I’m Warren all the way.

    If you want to troll really effectively, you can always work on getting me to refuse to vote if Bernie is the nominee again. I eventually came down off that position because I figure the Dems can control him and he’ll be obligated to go along with stuff/legislation he won’t himself be writing, and judicial nominations he won’t himself be making. That offsets his obvious russianocity.

    Bloomberg is the only one remaining that I simply would not check that box, even while voting Dem across the board for literally everything else. Anyone coming off all ‘I’m a lefty but I am voting Bloomberg’: no, no you’re not that thing at all. Furthermore, if that’s your angle, you are probably a working troll because why are you cloaking yourself or your story in ‘I’m a lefty’ if you value it that little? If you say ‘I know a bunch of wealthy retired professionals and they might vote Bloomberg, or Trump’ this is much less surprising, and also it’s not a trolling angle to say a thing that obvious. The trolling technique is to say ‘oh look the LEFT wants to vote Trump’ or some such nonsense.

  205. 205.

    NotMax

    February 26, 2020 at 9:35 am

    @mrmoshpotato

    Well, that set off a cobwebbed brain cell for some reason. Gotta link it for the grins.

  206. 206.

    Ben Cisco

    February 26, 2020 at 9:37 am

    @E.: I’m sad to say that Mama Cisco has reported similar findings among her cohort (retired educators!) – with many of them leaning at this point toward Bloomberg. One stated outright that she doesn’t believe that a woman, ANY woman, can be elected President at this point.

    Turns out that 2016 was even more traumatizing than I had thought…

  207. 207.

    WaterGirl

    February 26, 2020 at 9:37 am

    @frosty: @Kathleen:   Suspend, perhaps.  But not revoke! :-)

  208. 208.

    Betty Cracker

    February 26, 2020 at 9:38 am

    @schrodingers_cat: You implied Cole only cares about the breach of etiquette, not the atrocities. That’s not true, and there’s no basis for suggesting it. It was a shitty thing to say.

  209. 209.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 9:39 am

    @NotMax: LOL

  210. 210.

    Kathleen

    February 26, 2020 at 9:46 am

    @frosty: Now I’m up to 3. Time to rip the Z List Social Media Maven secret decoder ring from my withered arthritic fingers.

  211. 211.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 26, 2020 at 9:47 am

    @Betty Cracker: Okay let me clarify I don’t for a minute believe that JGC is more worried about being Ms Manners and is excusing genocide. JGC is a good soul without a mean bone in his body. But I think it was thoughtless to focus on the Orange One being a terrible guest when the host is a genocidal maniac drunk on power. Whose main focus this term has been marginalizing Muslims in India.

    An American President ( a normal one like the one we had until 2016) should not have accepted the invitation or sent someone else to send a message.

    (Delhi is his second pogrom, Godhra Gujarat in 2002 was the first one)

  212. 212.

    Kathleen

    February 26, 2020 at 9:47 am

    @WaterGirl: ❤???

  213. 213.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 26, 2020 at 9:48 am

    @Ben Cisco:One stated outright that she doesn’t believe that a woman, ANY woman, can be elected President at this point.

    She must have not been around for the same 2016 election I was. You know, the one where a woman got 3 million more votes than the man and lost the election thru a perfect storm of electoral college fuckery?

  214. 214.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 26, 2020 at 9:52 am

    @schrodingers_cat:  I agreed with Cole’s post. At this point, I expect Trump to be a monster. I expect him to applaud and encourage mass murder. It is who he is and why he must be defeated. At the same time, it still amazes me that he is completely unable to simulate any kind of normal human interaction. As people have pointed out, he is fractally awful.

  215. 215.

    A Ghost To Most

    February 26, 2020 at 9:55 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: That may work in the Ozarks, but being unprepared in the Rockies can get you dead.

  216. 216.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 9:59 am

    @Shalimar: not what I said. What I said is don’t be dictating other people’s life choices. But since you’re not going to discuss what I said, let’s just not discuss with each other at all.

  217. 217.

    Geminid

    February 26, 2020 at 10:00 am

    @Geminid: Sorry. Mike Braun is not up for reelection until 2024.

  218. 218.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 26, 2020 at 10:02 am

    @A Ghost To Most: Yeah, it’s kind of a universal principal that applies everywhere, city, country…. But it was a joke. Do you remember what a joke is? And in my many years of experience out west I can state unequivocally that there is no shortage of stupid people out there too. And yet, God smiles on them anyway.

  219. 219.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 10:04 am

    @Geminid: and depending on circumstances in 2022 he may. However, there’s no open Senate seat now, and he was originally considering running for governor, which he’s stated multiple times. And he’s second in delegate count right now, though certainly that will change, so “the kid” seems to know a few things about politics.

    Edit: and this is ridiculous to discuss, he’s in this race now. We need to deal with what is, not what we wish it was. A huge problem in politics in this country.

  220. 220.

    WaterGirl

    February 26, 2020 at 10:04 am

    @Kathleen: I am terrible at understanding icons and emojis.  What does the little black heart signify?

  221. 221.

    glory b

    February 26, 2020 at 10:05 am

    @p.a.: Rachel Bitecofer said her research indicates that whoever wins should pick Stacey Abrams. She believes that the key to winning is to get out the vote for people of color, and Stacey would be best at that.

    And, Abrams already has a start on this with her get out the vote/registration campaign.

    Bitecofer is the analyst who predicted the 2018 House races almost perfectly, and stuck to her prediction when others started to back away from such a favorable outcome for Dems.

  222. 222.

    Immanentize

    February 26, 2020 at 10:07 am

    @WaterGirl: I see a red heart.  Followed by yellow hearts.  Did you get a b and w phone again?

  223. 223.

    MisterForkbeard

    February 26, 2020 at 10:08 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: Cole even said “I know this is a minor thing considering everything they have done” and in his first paragraph talked about how Trump’s people have and are doing much worse than this and it doesn’t really matter.

    His disbelief and outrage seem to come from what you say – that JFC, these assholes can’t even pretend not to be assholes for 3 minutes straight, and they’re representing us to the world.

    “Fractally awful” is it. No matter where you look at them, they’re terrible.

  224. 224.

    dww44

    February 26, 2020 at 10:09 am

    @Baud: Never underestimate the lengths and depths that Republican operatives and voters will go to to undermine Democrats and democracy.

  225. 225.

    glory b

    February 26, 2020 at 10:09 am

    @Jinchi: I remember that in 2012, WV gave a LOT of primary votes to a guy running against Obama who (if I believe correctly) was, at the same time, doing time in a Texas prison on a felony conviction.

    So, maybe some ratf*****g is at least possible.

  226. 226.

    Kathleen

    February 26, 2020 at 10:10 am

    @WaterGirl: It just means I geezer texted and missed the red! This effing phone keypad (shakes mouse). I really appreciate your comment!

  227. 227.

    Hoodie

    February 26, 2020 at 10:12 am

    Last night restored some of my initial fate in Biden because last night he finally started to look like he will be able to weather the chaos that will be involved in running against Trump.   It would be nice to have someone with great management skills who is inspiring to folks across the spectrum of the party, but we simply don’t have that.  A lot of people love Warren here, and I admire her too, but the reality is that she just is not appealing to enough people outside of a limited section of the party.  Why? Who knows, sometimes people just don’t take a shine to someone.  You can blame that on sexism, the media, etc., and you might be correct, but that’s not going to change.

    I have no illusions about Biden inspiring anyone.  Joe has never been a good campaigner in the sense of oratory or debates.  However, he is a known quantity and folks from across the spectrum of the party like him because he generally treats people well regardless of who they are.   He is good at a one-on-one kind of politics, and presidents actually do quite a bit of that in their day-to-day work.  All that stuff about being able to work with Republicans, etc., is mostly nonsense which I doubt even Biden believes, but Biden would work well with Pelosi, Schumer and the rest of the Dem congressional leadership because he understands what they face and how they have to work.   He also has a level of international experience and credibility that none of the other candidates can even come close to matching.   If he picks a Harris or an Abrams as a running mate, it would be a formidable match for Trump.

  228. 228.

    Geminid

    February 26, 2020 at 10:15 am

    @satby: Not implying that Buttegiege is not a good presidential candidate, just that he would make a good Senate candidate and that Indiana Senate seats have been won and can be won by Democrats. But I was a dummie when I talked about 2022. Braun’s seat is not up until 2024.

  229. 229.

    WaterGirl

    February 26, 2020 at 10:16 am

    @Immanentize: Ha!  I see a little black heart, followed by yellow hearts.

    A red heart I would have understood!  :-)

  230. 230.

    zhena gogolia

    February 26, 2020 at 10:17 am

    @Hoodie:

    I agree.

  231. 231.

    Baud

    February 26, 2020 at 10:19 am

    @Hoodie:

    I go back and forth between Warren and Biden for the reasons you mention.

  232. 232.

    WaterGirl

    February 26, 2020 at 10:21 am

    @Kathleen: Nope, you apparently got the red right.  Imm sees it in red.  You can see from the image in my comment above that it is showing up for me as black on my mac laptop.

    But I just checked, and it’s red on my iPhone!

    P.S. You are welcome!

  233. 233.

    zhena gogolia

    February 26, 2020 at 10:25 am

    This is the real reason he didn’t eat the vegetarian feast

    As long suspected, Trump is getting puréed food. It’s ridiculous how they try to frame it & what’s happening to him…Like it’s a normal way to get vegetables…for babies maybe. Sounds like Ronny has been feeding Trump purée since early 2018- which helps timestamp his condition https://t.co/ckwvFbujSr— Tom Joseph (@TomJChicago) February 25, 2020

    And of course the courtiers couldn’t eat either.

  234. 234.

    Hoodie

    February 26, 2020 at 10:26 am

    @Baud: Clyburn just endorsed Biden, will be interesting to see what that means in SC.

  235. 235.

    zhena gogolia

    February 26, 2020 at 10:28 am

    @Hoodie:

    Oh, that’s good news. I’m sure he’ll be anathematized by Sanders fans.

  236. 236.

    Nelle

    February 26, 2020 at 10:41 am

    @Ocotillo: My county chair is very focused on the state leg. And the monthly meetings are growing here in Iowa.  The Monday newsletter notes three county wide meetings in the next few weeks, and about six subgroups for various suburbs and parts of Des Moines.  I’m impressed.  We’ve got a regressive R state senator who may be on his way out and we’ll be working towards helping him in that direction.

    What I’m not impressed with is that the DNC has put their thumb on the scale (endorsement and lots of cash) on one candidate for Ernst’s Senate seat so early (i think last October), putting other candidates at serious disadvantage from even getting in.  They chose a woman who had to drop out last time because of forged signatures.  Meanwhile, a retired vice-admiral who retired rather than serve under Trump is trying to get traction.

  237. 237.

    Kathleen

    February 26, 2020 at 10:46 am

    @WaterGirl: I’ve noticed emoji colors look different depending on site I’m on – Facebook vs Twitter vs here.

  238. 238.

    joel hanes

    February 26, 2020 at 10:57 am

    @Shalimar:

    I don’t know how much $500,000 is on Lake Champlain.

    Bernie’s camp has 300 feet of waterfront.   And, I think, a guest house.

  239. 239.

    MDB

    February 26, 2020 at 11:01 am

    @satby: What “misinformation” about Pete ?  Go on and find the lie that he is a vile, racist-as-fuck,  loser-ass centrist of a corporatist clown.  I fucking DARE YOU.

  240. 240.

    satby

    February 26, 2020 at 11:03 am

    @MDB: you seem nice.

  241. 241.

    Chyron HR

    February 26, 2020 at 11:13 am

    @MDB:

    What “misinformation” about Pete?

    “He’s pretending to be gay” and “He’s a CIA agent” would be high on the list.

  242. 242.

    gvg

    February 26, 2020 at 11:31 am

    @Betty Cracker: My understanding is the League of Women Voters asked to be removed from running the debates so I don’t think that exact solution is possible. I don’t know the details.

  243. 243.

    Ben Cisco

    February 26, 2020 at 11:42 am

    @Professor Bigfoot: Wouldn’t mind seeing that one myself.

  244. 244.

    Lymie

    February 26, 2020 at 12:06 pm

    @Professor Bigfoot: Massachusetts requires a special election within 100 days. Maybe check your facts before stating “conventional wisdom”

  245. 245.

    taumaturgo

    February 26, 2020 at 12:15 pm

    @germy: https://www.live5news.com/2020/02/06/charleston-voters-express-confusion-frustration-over-presidential-debate-accessibility/

  246. 246.

    Lymie

    February 26, 2020 at 12:26 pm

    I thought going after Bernie about Cuba was ridiculous, a lot of fake outrage all around. He only said exactly what Obama said. Pete continues to be a pompous idiot. Moderators sucked. Chris Matthews sucks. Warren was pretty fierce. The audience was obviously a paid group, who cheers for Bloomberg?  I could only watch a few minutes at a time without rage surfing to the Olympic channel.

  247. 247.

    mrmoshpotato

    February 26, 2020 at 12:59 pm

    @Lymie:

    rage surfing to the Olympic channel. 

    Has this sport always been played during US nighttime?  What country’s won the most medals?

  248. 248.

    Ben Cisco

    February 26, 2020 at 1:00 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: She was around, voted for Hillary, saw the result. My guess is that she believes either Warren or Klobouchar would suffer the same fate, and that no one would try to do the same to Bloomie.

    It doesn’t make sense to me either.

  249. 249.

    WaterGirl

    February 26, 2020 at 1:24 pm

    @Kathleen: Interesting!

  250. 250.

    misterpuff

    February 26, 2020 at 1:38 pm

    Bloomberg(re NDAs): We have addressed this. A tiny fraction of the NDAs concerning my jokes have been released by the corporation. Why is SHE relitigating this?

    Me (yelling at the TV): Because She persisted! STILL!

  251. 251.

    the Conster

    February 26, 2020 at 1:56 pm

    @Immanentize:

    Depends on what they’re angry about.  White supremacy?  Patriarchy putting their thumbs on the scale for mediocre white men like Bernie fucking Sanders, who did everything in his power to give us Trump?

  252. 252.

    Uncle Cosmo

    February 26, 2020 at 2:19 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Warren is the most qualified and visionary candidate by a mile in my opinion.

    And that would be fine if the times demanded a visionary. In fact they do not. The most important tasks of the Democratic Presidential nominee will be

    1. Win by as large a margin as humanly possible
    2. Flip the Senate & cement control of the House
    3. Rescind any & all destructive executive orders issued by Agolf Twitler
    4. Remove Cheeto Benito’s tools of hatred and chaos from any & all positions within the Federal government
    5. Settle a durable progressive majority into SCOTUS, if necessary via enabling legislation expanding its  composition
    6. Ratchet down the culture-war rhetoric by reminding everyone that our tribe is the American tribe, no other tribe should come before it, fairness to our tribal brethren is the issue,  that’s what it means to be a real American, & everyone (beyond the 27% of authoritarian followers) can redeem their membership in the American tribe simply by rejecting the bigoted, hateful attitudes that they may have dabbled in over the last few years
    7. Set forth a progressive vision of the American future that does not promote any group over any other and can be achieved without damaging people who are barely hanging in as is

    Kindly note that “visionary agenda” has 6 items before it, all of which are IMO far more important & necessary. In particular I believe that achieving Point 6 is absolutely critical to stabilizing our democracy & is necessary not only to achieve the most resounding victory in November (Point One) but also to start rolling back the respectability of any form of in-group/out-group bigotry & hatred in (NB) not just refined society but American society as a whole.

    Failing that, we will be stuck with 35-40% of the electorate convinced that the “lie-bruls” have stolen the election from their hero, pissed off that they’re being denied their Dog-given right to hate whoever they want & act on it. We progressives need to face the fact that we’re not good at sustained vigilance – i.e., standing with a shotgun 24/7 over the flat rocks the neo-Nazis & Nazi-curious will have slithered back underneath. That the global oligarchy will be relentless in setting up the next pseudofascist  catspaw for the followers to march behind. And that they only need to win one more election to ensure there will never be another anywhere near “free & fair.”

    She’d be a terrific president.

    All other things being equal? Probably. Other things aren’t. Four years of struggle to implement a “visionary” agenda against the hurricane headwinds of a corrupted media, bots spreading lies & mayhem, a judiciary poisoned by Federalist ideologues, and a bunch of oligarchs with more $$$ than Dog looking for the killshot against liberal democracy.

    A Warren Administration would be near-infinitely preferable to the shouty-finger-waggy fantasy-world incompetence & staff nastiness of BS. Even so it would in all likelihood make Jimmy Carter’s single term look like the epitome of competence. Particularly if a fractious Congress (under a new Speaker) & obstructionist courts permit the rich to continue skating on their responsibility to support the government, when Warren will have to choose between backing off her plans, or taxing the middle class to pay for them – which will lead to TeaParty 2.0, disaster at the ballot box in 2022 and a GOP POTUS in 2025. And then WWBSF.

    I truly do not understand why most folks here do not grasp that all the blather about “going forward” is actively dangerous. First we have to go backward, to a time when bigotry & fascism had no place in respectable conversation. If we don’t – & in particular if we continue to typecast anyone who doesn’t share our cultural snobbishness as an unredeemable troglodyte – then we will get civil insurrection. Or fascism. Or one followed by the other. And we will deserve it.

    (BTW for an insight into where I’m coming from, try [re]reading the FTFNYT op-ed “In the Land of Self-Defeat” from 4 October 2019 – but read it as if you were one of those not-all-that-well-off Arkansans who were sold on building a new county library with fracking extraction fees, & then when the revenues declined discovered they’d be on the hook for an overbuilt edifice most of whose facilities they’d never use. Keep in mind that the author, who grew up in the area but left for college & spent her adult life near DC, is one of the few who would use those facilities [for a book she’s returned to write], & that her mother was on the committee that recommended the library. See if you can understand why the residents erupted in anger when their supposed “betters” decided how to use that “found cash” & then stuck them with the bill when the revenue model went south. That is precisely what will happen on a national scale if a Democratic administration becomes so infatuated with its “plans” that even if the rich evade funding them it will tax the non-rich to pay for them.)

  253. 253.

    J R in WV

    February 26, 2020 at 2:19 pm

    @Ken:

    How much hash did Shea and Wilson consume while writing this?

    Just about enough — perhaps the exact correct amount…

    I thought it was hysterically funny, both being at some of those demonstrations way back in the day, and reading the novels later on.

  254. 254.

    J R in WV

    February 26, 2020 at 2:58 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    WOW, that is a long and serious comment, thanks.

    I would say, though that of your list of 7 crucial tasks for the next Democratic president, most of those are visionary tasks that need a visionary person to undertake and succeed with. Not sure what the library in Arkansas is all about.

    Here locally the library, currently located in a re-purposed previously Federal Courthouse, intended to fund-raise to build a new facility, but soon realized that sum was unobtainable right now.

    So they took what they could raise, and hired skilled architects to remodel, expand and improve the existing facility, which is downtown and surrounded by 3 streets and a former bank tower now upscale condos. There will be a temporary facility while construction is underway.

    I thought that was a wise decision!

  255. 255.

    topclimber

    February 26, 2020 at 2:58 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: Hey thread is long dead but I hear you. But please consider that a safe strategy is not necessarily a winning one.

    If your goal is to bring us close to where we were in 2016, sometime around 2024, you keep your head down and hope that somehow a moderate Democrat can get around the rigged game that is the Senate, dark money and ongoing plutocratic war against the poor and middle class–you know, the stuff that crimped Obama from 2010 on.

    If your goal is to start correcting those fundamental problems in our country and climate chaos in the world, you need to push the agenda left.

    If your goal is to act on both fronts, you start with a ticket acceptable to both camps. Then you empower the convention to produce a platform that 90% of our office holders can 90% support.

    Sample plank. Universal health care as our goal within 10 years. Do we ultimately go with Medicare for all (all folks, all ailments, with the added benefit that when faux deficit hawks go after Medicare, suddenly folks of all ages are in it together)/? Or do we go with a flavor that let’s folks add their private insurance to the mix and at minimum takes on costs of providers and the RX cartel?

    Whatever…we leave it to a Democratic President and Congress to figure out. We run united trusting that enough Americans understand we are the party that will protect their health care, not the GOP or Trolls International.

  256. 256.

    Barb 2

    February 26, 2020 at 6:07 pm

    Unfortunately women can be women’s worst enemies. I’m actually seeing liberal and moderate men as stronger supporters of the two women remaining running for president.

    We don’t have the ERA today because of the anti-feminists – those haters got attention because the media invited the bi*ches on to argue the “other side”.

    Warren is running because she spent a lot of time talking to people during her bankruptcy research. She is smarter than any other candidates on the debate stage. Plus the moderators should be fired.

    There was an older gentleman who was born before the women got the right to vote. His mom faught for the right to vote and she said other women were some of the strongest  anti women’s vote voices. Women can be women’s worst enemies.

    The witch trials in Scotland – the ancient transcripts show that women were women’s worst enemies. I read these transcripts while teaching myself to read the handwriting of that era in order to do genealogy research. The witch trials transcripts are online.

    The trashing of today’s women political candidates reminds me of the old witch trials.

  257. 257.

    Uncle Cosmo

    February 27, 2020 at 2:22 am

    @J R in WV: It sounds to me (& I hope) that you more or less concur that the list of tasks I presented is appropriate & necessary. I disagree that they are “visionary” in any real sense; in fact I would say they are profoundly conservative, in the best sense of conserving what has been valuable (but woefully underappreciate) in our political behavior until the recent craziness. Recall the French expression, Reculer pour mieux sauter. IMO we as a nation need to back up & gather our energies, the better to leap into the future.

    Your library story is much more admirable than the one I cited –  an excellent example of a community that understands how to live within its means, & just as importantly, why – because public monies are given in trust by that public to be spent wisely. The “opinion leaders” in that Arkansas county saw a windfall from the frackers’ extraction fees & persuaded the residents that a gaudy new library (with capabilities few of them would ever use) was the appropriate place to spend it. I’m quite sure that part of the persuasion was that “it’s not going to cost you anything” – & then when it turned out that it would cost them, they turned on the library’s proponents in fury. (Part of the proposal was to raise the salary of the head librarian – someone who was from the community – to equivalence with similar positions on the coasts. Complaints over that [ongoing] expense were answered by, “But she has a master’s degree!” Few could understand why the advanced degree should matter to them – how it would allow the librarian to better serve them – or why a relatively poor community should be expected to offer a salary commensurate with those in more affluent areas: “If she wants that kind of money, she should take a job someplace where they can afford to pay it.”)

    The main reason I cited that op-ed was to show the level of condescension the (relatively) well-educated often show for people they consider stupid. That piece fairly drips with an implied Can you believe these ignorant goobers complaining about a library? The fact that its author grew up in the area is a further slap in the face: Once she made it out of “The Sticks” she looked back at it like an anthropologist, returning after decades to tell stories about its people as if they were the quaint myths of a cargo cult.

    Trump’s “pwning the libs” gets him crazy fealty from these folks who react in fury to this sort of treatment: They call you classless slobs because you put ketchup on your steak? Well, I do the same thing, & they ridicule me too! But I’m the fuckin’ President thanks to you, & who’s laughing now?!?!

    There are a lot of left-leaning, sorta-educated people out there who despise Trump as much (or more) for his cultural “foe-paws” as for his actively harmful actions as POTUS. I consider them my allies of the moment, but they certainly aren’t my friends. Particularly because fighting this “crude beast, its hour come round at last,/ Who slouched into DC to be sworn” on the cultural issues is doomed. But more so because I believe that “there’s no accounting for taste” & that no one has standing to criticize the preferences of anyone else, so long as they aren’t imposing those preferences on me. (I won’t normally dump ketchup on a steak – but I have eaten steaks that could only be made palatable by liberal ;^D application of steak sauce, particularly  at the dinner table with Depression-scarred parents who lived as far within their means as possible; I have put ketchup on hot dogs & eaten them with relish ;^D as well as salads based on the horror! the horror! of iceberg lettuce. No one will compel me to watch NASCAR or UFC or WWE, but I will respect that there are those who appreciate them**; and I tolerate no busybody who thinks s/he can shame or cajole me into acquiring a taste for curling or badminton or “footie.”)’

    …I seem to have rambled aways afield here so I’ll quit for the moment…

    ** Note, please, the distinction between respecting someone’s preferences or beliefs and respecting that they hold such preferences and beliefs. People are IMO generally not entitled to the former, but are to the latter, if for no other reason that they serve as a guide to understanding the behavior of those who hold such preferences or beliefs.

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