Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

Fear or fury? The choice is ours.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

We will not go back.

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

The arc of the moral universe does not bend itself. it is up to us to bend it.

Second rate reporter says what?

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you do not.

The snowflake in chief appeared visibly frustrated when questioned by a reporter about egg prices.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

One way or another, he’s a liar.

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

When I was faster i was always behind.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2020 / Wednesday Morning Open Thread: After the Brawl

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: After the Brawl

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The consensus I’m seeing is that, whatever might be said about the other candidates, Bernie Sanders did not have a good debate. Buttigieg, Biden, and Bloomberg all did well attacking him — and Warren, praise Murphy the Trickster God, finally got around to pointing out that while her ‘friend’ had some excellent ideas, she had those same ideas plus an actual record of implementing hers.

On the other hand, the South Carolina audience did not preserve the decorum suddenly considered desirable by the out-of-their-depth (un)moderators, which at least gave the Bernistas a chance to unleash their second favorite pastime, insisting that the seating had been ‘rigged’. (It was not rigged; people just disagreed with Sanders, unthinkable as that seemed to his supporters.)

Josh Marshall, at TPM:

… Especially on the first hour it felt like all the contenders finally understood the true terms of the contest and had been given one last two hour chance to level the attacks they wished they’d starting leveling three months ago. The mix of antic questions and desperate attacks made it feel like two hours packed with chaos and bad energy.

Debates only matter inasmuch as they affect the outcome of the race. The rest is just theater criticism about canned answers and yelling. The big question in this primary battle is whether Bernie Sanders builds on his momentum coming out of the first three contests and goes on to a string of victories in Super Tuesday which make it hard for any other candidate to overtake him….

We can talk about who did well, who had what strategy, who should get votes. But this seems like the one operative question, which of these two scenarios happens: Sanders building on his momentum and moving into a dominating lead or Biden using a South Carolina win to check Sanders’ drive and shift the contest to something like a two or three person race.

On those terms I think Biden had about as good a night as he could have hoped for. He himself had a strong debate. But it was more the other things that happened – mainly, Elizabeth Warren continuing to savage Mike Bloomberg; everyone else beating up on Sanders; and Tom Steyer giving a mainly anemic performance. (Steyer may seem like an irrelevancy but he’s actually Biden’s biggest problem in South Carolina.)

Even though it’s usually hyperbole, the next seven days do seem critical for the whole contest.

Things are unlikely to change much before Saturday’s South Carolina primary… although I personally think the Social-Security-eligible candidates should take this opportunity to announce their VP picks, because if Goddess forbid something should happen between now and November (worse: January), I for one would like to know whether it would be Kamala Harris, Julian Castro, or Tulsi Gabbard picking up the fallen torch.

Reader Interactions

257Comments

  1. 1.

    germy

    Pleased to see that 41 Strange, an account that CONSISTENTLY steals content without crediting (has stolen photos of Barlow ? and refused to even acknowledge me), has been suspended.

    — Amy W. Schwartz  (@lizardschwartz) February 24, 2020

  5. 5.

    germy

    Today, I was on a TV panel about car-free cities. During the interview, I got word that a 10-year-old was killed while walking in East New York just as a fellow panelist and car lobbyist said that there are no known public health risks associated with driving.

    — Danny Harris (@DannyHarris_TA) February 25, 2020

    Every day in America, 100 people are killed in car crashes. Moreover, cars lock people into poverty and debt, choke our cities, pollute our air, remove freedom from our most vulnerable, and convince humans that those who drive are superior to those who don’t.

    — Danny Harris (@DannyHarris_TA) February 25, 2020

    Our cities and residents deserve better than being a pathway or final destination for vehicles. Our cities deserve to be a place where all people have access to safe, equitable, dignified, and sustainable transportation alternatives.

    — Danny Harris (@DannyHarris_TA) February 25, 2020

  6. 6.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: I liked Biden, he came across as genial compared to all the shouties on the stage.

    Pete landed the best punches at BS.

    Warren is on track to losing in Massachussetts, her pact of deferring to BS is not working. She is not connecting to people outside her amen chorus.

    Amy was boring

    Steyer needs to go home

    Bloomberg had the lamest punch lines, he too can go home

    Old Shouty is going to give himself another heart attack on the debate stage.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Agree.  I thought it was nice, some might view it as weak.

    Still thought Pete had the best night, but he kept going after Bernie after everyone else stopped, so that might be influencing my views.

  10. 10.

    Lapassionara

    @Baud: Most of the “good people” in South Carolina are Republicans, and they have been encouraged to vote for Sanders.

  12. 12.

    satby

    @Baud: Bernie’s assholes are the ones spreading misinformation on social media about Pete and disrupting campaign events for Pete. Not surprised Pete called Bernie’s toxic ass out. But I didn’t watch.

  18. 18.

    germy

    @schrodingers_cat:  Politics has been very good to Bernie.  No one would have bought his book if he’d been an unknown adjunct professor in Jane’s college.

    But someones people who own more than one property can still do positive things. FDR was rich.  So was JFK.

    Bloomberg could do something positive.  He could drop out and take his cheering section with him.

  19. 19.

    Betty Cracker

    I was grateful for Pete’s comment that there is too much focus on the presidency and that we have to hold the House and flip the Senate to get anything done. So true, Pete!

    Not a Bernie fan, but I’ve been worried about how ill he looks lately, and I thought he seemed better and more energetic last night. Maybe he’s doing his cardiac rehab after all.

  22. 22.

    satby

    @germy: well, I was around for the 60s (and he’s talking the late 60s and SDS types, not the civil rights era) and what those revolutionary politics got us was a huge backlash and Nixon and Reagan, so he’s not wrong.

  25. 25.

    E.

    My upper-crust book club is full of lefty retired women. We got to talking politics last week and I was dismayed to see their complete dismissal of Elizabeth Warren as even a legitimate candidate. I felt really alone at that moment, and stunned. I think Warren would be an absolutely terrific president, possibly the best I have had an opportunity to vote for in my lifetime. They liked Bloomberg and Klobuchar. Their criticism of Warren was that she was making promises she wouldn’t be able to keep, that she does not know how to implement her programs, and she’s “too radical” to win. They believed Bernie was more prepared for the Presidency than Warren! I was so stunned as to be speechless. I thought the crowd would be 100 percent for her. Really I’m just very confused by the disconnect.

  26. 26.

    germy

    @satby:

    what those revolutionary politics got us was a huge backlash

    Clowns like Jerry Rubin and the yippies were destructive.  We would have been better without them. But I wouldn’t dismiss everyone who marched in the 1960s.

  28. 28.

    Betty Cracker

    @E.: Warren is the most qualified and visionary candidate by a mile in my opinion, so I don’t get it either. She’d be a terrific president.

  32. 32.

    germy

    @rikyrah: If anyone in Obama’s administration had said anything like that, there would have been angry mobs outside the White House.

    But no one in his administration would have said anything like that.

    I miss having smart, competent people in charge.

  34. 34.

    rikyrah

    ???

    This morning’s classified coronavirus briefing should have been made fully open to the American people—they would be as appalled & astonished as I am by the inadequacy of preparedness & prevention.— Richard Blumenthal (@SenBlumenthal) February 25, 2020

  35. 35.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: She willingly accepted to be BS second fiddle. That’s how people see her because that’s the image she is projecting to those not in the Warren bubble.

    Even yesterday she was relentlessly attacking Bloomberg and not taking on the man who is beating her in her own backyard.

  36. 36.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    I missed last night’s debate so I appreciate the assessments here. I lay awake in the night worrying about the election, my book, and the coronavirus in a rotating order. I feel stressed.

  38. 38.

    Betty Cracker

    The moderating last night was abysmal, IMO. Whatever happens this year, I hope the DNC revisits the way primary debates are handled in the future. Moderating could be done by the League of Women Voters and/or other civic-minded organizations that could be trusted to facilitate an illuminating discussion rather than stage a demolition derby for clicks and pundit hot takes.

  39. 39.

    Emma from FL

    @E.: Warren lacks the appropriate equipment. I have given up on expecting to see a female president in my time. Also, “uppercrust”? Meaning I got my tax cut, and my money trumps my politics? yeah.

  40. 40.

    Baud

    @schrodingers_cat:

    It’s my biggest disappointment with her campaign. She’s started to be more aggressive last night, but I don’t think it was enough (although she’s accurate that she is better than him in getting things done).

  42. 42.

    p.a.

    Can a K. Harris or E. Warren be more effective as veep than in the Senate?  Assuming they remain veeps and don’t ascend, I’d like to hear pros & cons from the hive intellect.  I’m inclined to +Senate.

  45. 45.

    Cheryl Rofer

    I spent the evening with neighbors, checked on Twitter when I got home. There wasn’t much to go on, seems like nobody really “won.” Which got me thinking.

    The following is not a criticism of front-pagers and commenters here. What I see is all horse-race commentary. The media have got us doing it too. What would the candidates do about, say, global warming? A pandemic? Putting a government back in place? None of that seems to have come up, or if it did, the answers were trivial and cut off in the middle.

    We need a President who can do the job, and the debates do not tell us who that is.

    I thought these three tweets summed it up nicely, although I would change the first to “all presidential debates.”

  47. 47.

    Shalimar

    @schrodingers_cat: I don’t know how much $500,000 is on Lake Champlain.  Housing in my area of the Gulf Coast is $600-800 a square foot.  $500k is what smaller middle-class vacation homes cost.

    @Betty Cracker: So true, Pete!  If only we had someone like the mayor of his state’s 3rd largest city to run for one of those House or Senate seats and help us flip them.

  49. 49.

    Betty Cracker

    @p.a.: I think Warren would be more effective in the Senate. If she doesn’t win the nomination, she won’t run for president again. Harris is young enough to use the VP job as a stepping stone, and her senate seat would definitely stay blue, whereas Warren’s might not.

  50. 50.

    germy

    @Shalimar:  There’s a house at the end of my street, currently for sale: $699,000.  Nothing special.  It’s just a house, two bathrooms, four bedrooms. Small.

    I have no idea how any young couple just starting out could afford it, unless their parents own car dealerships or something.

  52. 52.

    E.

    @Emma from FL: Maybe “high brow” would be better. We read Paradise Lost last year, we read Shakespeare regularly, just finished Beowulf and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, now reading Antigone. So you know, not a normal book club in this rural, very very very very red county. My not-so-obvious point was, these are pretty educated people.

  54. 54.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Shalimar: It’s his 3rd home and Vt is a poor state comparatively speaking. 500,000 would buy you a mansion in most of Vt and fairly average home on Champlain as my cursory forays into Vt real estate market show.

  55. 55.

    satby

    @Shalimar: like Beto, Pete wasn’t going to win in blood red, fundamentalist Indiana. This state might as well be Mississippi. Besides, he’s doing a good job of beating a lot of people with “experience”.

  57. 57.

    JMG

    @Betty Cracker: The Vice-Presidential nominee’s only job is to help the Presidential nominee get elected, period. Warren does little to help Sanders there.  Harris would definitely help. Bernie may be too dim to get it, but he needs a VP choice popular with the imaginary “establishment” (most Democrats) he loathes.

  60. 60.

    satby

    @Betty Cracker: agreed. I don’t want any Senators lost due to this campaign, unless they’re elected President. But Harris’s seat would stay blue, so VP would be ok. I think her talents would be a bit wasted though.

  62. 62.

    Amir Khalid

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    This. It’s frustrating to see jackals fretting about how candidate A fared in the rankout contest versus candidates B and C. People, being good at zinging other candidates doesn’t mean squat when they put you in the Oval Orifice and you have to do the POTUS job. Trump was good at zinging his rivals, so good that he sank them all, and what kind of president has he been?

  67. 67.

    snoey

    @satby: Sanders was one of the humorless newspaper sellers who were around the fringes of the demonstration with smeary tabloids going on about some incomprehensible intra-socialist issue.

    Yippies had weed.

  68. 68.

    Shalimar

    @schrodingers_cat: I think 3rd home is a better attack than the value of his vacation home, since so many people in the middle class have vacation homes.  The best attack is that Jane made a large profit for herself and her family by possibly criminally mismanaging an old college into oblivion, but no one is going to go there.

  69. 69.

    Don Beal

    I too was around for the 60’s and participated in the antiwar/ anti stupid norms of the day. It changed, society for the better for generations. Of course there was backlash. Reactionary forces  always pop up when the predominate view is challenged. Feminism, civil rights, reproductive freedom and more got off the ground because of those disturbing “clowns”.  Movements for change do not usually grow from within the existing power structure. Today, a corrupt DNC, so blatantly for sale, is hopelessly lost. Thus Warrens reluctance to make war on Sanders only reinforces my view that she is in it for the good of the Country. Props to her.

  70. 70.

    satby

    @Cheryl Rofer: I think the debates are an almost total waste of time. I hope the DNC revamps them to one or two issue oriented ones only. And discussions here have been a serious frustration of mine because people opine on candidates based on gut reactions and Twitter hot takes instead of research on their positions and plans on problems facing the country.

  72. 72.

    Van Buren

    @E.: I am also gobsmacked by the lack of support for Warren by the liberal professional women I am in contact with. Yet to hear a good explanation .

  74. 74.

    Immanentize

    @E.:

    just finished Beowulf

    Ignoring the universal advice to avoid any group where that is a topic?

    I am not surprised about your group. It sounds like Warren is in many ways “one of them”, so easier to criticize. Jessica Valenti (I think it was) said something like, “Second wave feminists got so used to criticizing their mothers that it became a habit and now they spend their time criticizing their daughters.”

  76. 76.

    Shalimar

    @satby: He was popular enough to become mayor of South Bend, so I’m not convinced Pete couldn’t have won a House seat.  But that’s beside the point.  If he’s so ambitious that he thinks he should run for president in his 30s with such a slim resume, which he obviously is, then he should have moved to an area where his career would have had more room for advancement.  He’s not far from Chicago.

  77. 77.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @JMG:

    I now have more sympathy for my parents who  used to demand to know who the hippies meant by “the establishment.” They suspected it was them, and they were right. I now suspect Sanders is talking about me, which makes it hard for me to be really enthusiastic about him even though I agree with most of his goals.

  80. 80.

    germy

    @Don Beal:   I used the term “clowns” to describe people like Jerry Rubin, not the good people who marched and worked for civil rights, reproductive freedom, gay rights, and peace.

    I remember Rubin running around as a yuppie, later in his career.  He contributed nothing.

  83. 83.

    satby

    @Don Beal: and reactionary backlash is diminished when the social change is brought about by consensus, some of which was built by demonstrating. I also was a part of many of those. But the tail end of the 60s had more destructive elements latch onto the progressive movements of the day, and we’re watching in real time the outcome of 50 years of backlash. A backlash we liberals didn’t really pay attention to, because we thought the argument won.

  84. 84.

    schrodingers_cat

    BTW Violence and arson against Muslim properties continues unabated for the 4 the day in the nation’s capital Delhi as a result of the BJP led anti-Muslim pogrom. More than 20 are dead. While our President lends legitimacy to the murderous Modi regime by praising Modi for religious tolerance. Meanwhile in Balloon Juice land our bloghost can’t sleep at night because the xenophobic bigot didn’t eat some snacks  at the tea served by the mass murderer.

  85. 85.

    germy

    “In 2012, [Bloomberg] scooped in to try to defend another Republican senator against a woman challenger. That was me. It didn’t work, but he tried hard. I don’t care how much money Mayor Bloomberg has, the core of the Democratic Party will never trust him.”
    – Elizabeth Warren:

  86. 86.

    Ocotillo

    Man whoever the nominee ends up being, this election is so damn critical!

    1.  Trump must be removed before he can do more damage to the country and our way of life.
    2. The House majority needs to be retained.
    3. The Senate needs to be flipped to the Dems.
    4. Getting the above 3 allows for judicial appointments of which it is likely there will be some for the SOCTUS.
    5. The thing no one is emphasizing, this is when the state legislatures will be elected that will conduct redistricting.

    Lose and we really are screwed.  Things are bad now and getting worse but you ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

  88. 88.

    Immanentize

    @germy: Rubin was no dummy. He was a very early investor in Apple. So everyone thank the Yippies for their MACs and iPhones.

  89. 89.

    JMG

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: The problem with Bernie is that in his mind, the “establishment” is the same one he was mad at in the ’60s, despite the fact all of those people are long dead. He cannot move on from ANYTHING, and as a candidate for President is happiest when he can have NYC coffeehouse arguments from 1965 at the top of his lungs. Too bad he was just a little too old for the sex, drugs and rock n’roll era. Would’ve done him a world of good.

  90. 90.

    SFAW

    @E.:

    “Well-educated” (per a subsequent comment of yours) does not necessarily translate to smart or having any (common) sense.

  91. 91.

    Ramalama

    @schrodingers_cat: I know everyone here loathes / is exasperated by Bernie, but the argument about the $700K house might not be the best reason. Burlington and surrounding areas, has been experiencing insane ‘growth’ in cost of living, housing prices.  I used to drive through Vermont every week for a decade and I saw the prices creeping up. A recent visit to Burlington has given me vertigo, skyrocketing prices.

    When I lived in a neighboring state, in a small working-class village, the neighbors across the street from me bought a house for $500K only to tear it down and build a new house. It stood on a postage stamp sized lot. That was 15 years ago.

    How must Democratic Socialists live? Squalor? Abject poverty?

  99. 99.

    Matt

    I agree with what a previous commenter has said, beyond getting rid of caucuses because they are undemocratic and just a hot mess, why are we putting up with the undemocratic nature of the democratic primary debates.  We need to push the candidates (ALL THE CANDIDATES) to get rid of network-run debates, they are not informative, they are repetitive, and honestly, they are all about making fake problems/attacks happen, versus introduce and flesh out the policy specifics of each candidate.  Say what you will about Bernie’s Medicare for All Plan, but have we really heard about the other candidates plans in depth much?  About their climate change plans?  About really anybody but the frontrunner at the the time’s plan?  The way we’re allowing this corporate capture of our debate process is madness, and also, a lot of the debates have been crap because they’ve been run by TV networks.  Tell your candidate (orcandidates if you haven’t decided yet like me) to change this undemocratic process for next time.

  100. 100.

    Ken

    @NotMax: IIRC from my one reading of the Illuminatus trilogy, levitating the Pentagon was a cover story.  The real plan was to draw a circle around the pentagram, which would release what it was holding.

  104. 104.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Dems got the same problem as the GOPers, too many old people who need to just retire and seem to be there just to block the younger people.

    And if Bernie is shocked people bood him, WTF does that idiot think is going to happen to him when he gets the nomination?

  105. 105.

    Immanentize

    @NotMax: On another point, did you watch Hunters?  I’m watching it now.  As I am approximately Jonah’s age, it has some odd 1977 resonance.

  109. 109.

    satby

    @JMG: He cannot move on from ANYTHING, and as a candidate for President is happiest when he can have NYC coffeehouse arguments from 1965 at the top of his lungs.

    And his cult cites that as a positive ?. He’s been consistent for decades. Even though they would hate to deal with someone so stuck in the past IRL.

  110. 110.

    Ken

    @Immanentize: I don’t remember and have absolutely no intention of re-reading the thing.  Wait a minute, I don’t have to do either.  Google says… Yog-Sothoth under the Pentagon!?  And the underwater Nazis were in Bavaria.  How much hash did Shea and Wilson consume while writing this?

  111. 111.

    Immanentize

    so the Immp and I were talking about the election —

    Me: Why do so many young people support Bernie? He is so old and angry.
    Immp: Don’t you think young people have plenty of reasons to be very angry?

    Fair point.

  112. 112.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @Baud: But didn’t the SC Republicans cancel their primary?

    Seems like a good step in setting up the ratfuck…

  113. 113.

    germy

    @Immanentize:  People like him show up at every movement.  They draw the attention to themselves and their stunts.  It does a disservice to hardworking people trying to create real progress. And the clownshow gives the media cover to mock all protesters. His clownshow contributed to the reactionary backlash.

    “But he made a ton of money in the stock market!”  Yes, I’ll give him that.

  120. 120.

    different-church-lady

    All this so that Sanders can inexplicably win S. Carolina and then spend the general campaign trying to reform Stalin in the American mind.

  123. 123.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @p.a.: Harris is from California; and will almost certainly be replaced by another solid Democrat.

    Warren is from Massachusetts, which currently has a Republican governor; so her replacement would be a net loss in the Senate.

    IMHO, of course

    [edit: what Betty said.]

  125. 125.

    Immanentize

    @satby: That’s one of the things he is particularly angry about.

    What I said actually was that he was right about reasons to be angry, but that Sander’s anger objects don’t align with his (climate disaster, tech anarchy, no future). He agreed. He is no Sanders puppet.

  126. 126.

    satby

    @mrmoshpotato: my favorite of the many recipes because you don’t have to cook the rice first. Followed the directions exactly, and it was spectacular. But next time I may cut about 1/3 cup off of the milk total, because I like a firmer pudding.

    Hmm, was that TMI?

  129. 129.

    NotMax

    @satby

    Rice pudding is what the great-grandparents would chow down on when their teeth were in another room.

    :)

    Do have an airtight sealed container in the fridge of dried apricots I’ve had soaking in brandy for a long, long time. Chopped some up to use to make an apricot-raisin loaf in the super duper bread machine just last week. Slices real good eatin’ when spread with a non-skimpy shmear.

  131. 131.

    Betty Cracker

    @Immanentize: Immp is right, and his answer tracks with what I’m hearing from young folks who support Sanders. Yes, anger drives Trump voters too, but their misplaced rage is about white men no longer being centered in a changing world, whereas young folks are angry about their future prospects — material and even the very existence of life on this planet — being blighted by selfish, short-sighted greed-heads. I’d say the young folks’ anger is more than justified, even though I’m not on board with their remedy.

  134. 134.

    Chyron HR

    What the fuck is Bernie doing at 0:30 in the Chris Evans video? “This is the black power salute! I invented this when I was the leader of the civil rights movement!”

  136. 136.

    SFAW

    @Immanentize:

    Fair point.

    No it isn’t Kids today have it SOOO much easier these days. None of THEM has to walk 25 miles to school, uphill (in both directions), through the Blinding Blizzards in July. And do they have to to shovel coal into the too-small furnace — not much bigger than one of them camping lanterns, actually — just to keep their fingers from falling off?

    Anyway, it sounds like you guys are still on your trip, yes? I hope it’s going great. [I haven’t been here much lately.] Best wishes to you and Immp.

  139. 139.

    Immanentize

    @Professor Bigfoot: Warren’s replacement would be, at a maximum, for 150 days when a new election would be called.

    Remember Senator Mo Cowan from Mass? I do because he went to Northeastern Law School; but he was the interim Senator appointed by Patrick when Kerry stepped down to become Secretary of State. Ed Markey (my then-Rep.) Went on to win the Senate seat in the special. Mo was a Senator for about six months. Very nice guy. Now has a lifetime Senate salary.

  142. 142.

    Another Scott

    @germy: Unpossible!!  Heartwarming gifs want to be Free and Uncredited!!

    /snark

    Actually, this is important.  People need to be able to make a living, and people stealing stuff and posting it as theirs hurts real people.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  144. 144.

    satby

    @Immanentize: Now has a lifetime Senate salary.

    Hmm, maybe that’s another thing that should change. The rest of us very seldom get pensions even after decades of work, much less six months.

  146. 146.

    Immanentize

    @Baud: There are many young who don’t like Sanders — he is the choice of the crowd.  So, if there is any iconoclast in you, Sanders is just an old shouty white guy.  The Immp started out  pro-Sanders in 2016, but my wife set him straight on that! He started out Yang gang this time around, largely because of the minimum guaranteed wage arguments. He is probably Warren now, but misses having a tech bro in the mix.

  149. 149.

    WaterGirl

    @satby:

    And discussions here have been a serious frustration of mine because people opine on candidates based on gut reactions and Twitter hot takes instead of research on their positions and plans on problems facing the country.

    That’s a pretty great sentence.

  151. 151.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @Immanentize:
    @snoey:

    Ahhhh, that’s good.

    Of course, I expect Republicans to come up with some way to ratfuck it; but then, I expect them to ratfuck everything. ?

  156. 156.

    Immanentize

    @Professor Bigfoot: Gov. Baker (R) could win in a special.  Maybe.  But he is just not the type of ass who would appoint himself to the interim Senate seat.  Nor does he want to be anything but Governor, I think.  The rest of the MA GOP has gone Trumpilstiltskin

  159. 159.

    Jinchi

    @Baud: the 2020 primary has less turnout than 2008

    A little early to make that claim. We’ve had two caucuses and 1 primary.

    After a lackluster showing in Iowa, Democrats flooded New Hampshire’s polling places. By Tuesday night, it was clear that turnout would surpass the 254,780 votes cast in the 2016 Democratic presidential primary. And on Wednesday, the record 288,672 votes cast in 2008 fell.

  161. 161.

    NotMax

    @Immanentize

    Six months is not enough length of service to become vested in the Senate pension plan. Number of years required varies (see .pdf file) but is never less than 5 years of federal service.

  163. 163.

    Baud

    @Jinchi:

    Ok, I didn’t realize NH was so high.  Maybe it’s just caucuses then.  OTOH, 2008 was open for both parties.  And this FTA:

    Takeaway: most of Dems’ turnout increase was attributable to Kasich/Rubio types crossing over from ’16 GOP primary – not heightened progressive/Sanders base enthusiasm.

  164. 164.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Cheryl Rofer: Amen to both your comments and the attached tweets. I think the probable suboptimal outcome of this year’s Democratic primary is at least in part due to these godawful poorly managed debates.

  165. 165.

    Shalimar

    @satby: To me, “true progressive” has become a synonym for “belligerent asshole Sanders supporter”, so yeah.  Among the worst things you can say to someone.

  166. 166.

    satby

    I know Fat Tuesday is over, but I still have cream cheese paczkis left. Plus half a muffaletta sandwich. I’m a serious observer of Fat Tuesday.

  167. 167.

    mrmoshpotato

    @SFAW:

    None of THEM has to walk 25 miles to school, uphill (in both directions), through the Blinding Blizzards in July. And do they have to to shovel coal into the too-small furnace — not much bigger than one of them camping lanterns, actually — just to keep their fingers from falling off?

    Well that’s a new spin on an old tale! LOL

    You forgot about the ceaselessly attacking ninja baboons.

  170. 170.

    Immanentize

    @Jinchi: that of course was just the Democratic primary numbers.  Ratfucking was extreme:. (same article)

    While the numbers in New Hampshire are promising for Democrats, it is worth noting that the first-in-the-nation primary allows voters registered with neither party to vote in whichever primary they choose. With an uncompetitive primary on the Republican side, independent voters were free to vote in the Democratic primary.

  171. 171.

    satby

    @Shalimar: possibly you shouldn’t prescribe what someone else should do to satisfy your requirements of how they should live their lives, then you might not get confused for something you aren’t.

    The guy meets the constitutional requirements for office. Vote or don’t vote for him as you please.

  173. 173.

    Kathleen

     

    @Baud: Al Giordano’s take is that she’s smart to focus on Bloomburg whom he sees as Biden’s biggest competitor right now and let other candidates deal with Bernie, though he was not saying she’s trying to help Biden. Now I’m back to lurking

  177. 177.

    Jinchi

    @Baud:  I thought turnout was lower this year, too. The idea seems to have permeated the general subconcious.

    When I looked it up, the top links had titles like “Trouble for Democrats” and “Turnout Down for Young Voters”. A closer look showed they were referencing exit polls, were written before the votes were counted and the links were to RedState and Breitbart. We’ll know more about enthusiasm in a week. Until them, I’m going to assume we’ll have 2018 levels of interest.

  180. 180.

    NotMax

    @SFAW

    You had coal? And a furnace?

    We had to scrounge empty sardine tins and search for still warm ashes in neighborhood alleyway ashcans.

    :)

    Which, more seriously, leads me to recommend a pretty decent documentary about living through the Depression available on Prime, When the World Breaks.

  186. 186.

    SFAW

    @mrmoshpotato:

    You forgot about the ceaselessly attacking ninja baboons.

    That’s because my neighborhood was too dangerous for them, they woulda been turned into dinner, or a late night snack — if we had cooking facilities, such as a fire.

  187. 187.

    SFAW

    @NotMax:

    We had to scrounge empty sardine tins and search for still warm ashes in neighborhood alleyway ashcans.

    Pure luxury! Etc., etc.

    Bleedin’ Yorkshiremen.

  191. 191.

    Chris Johnson

    @E.:

    My upper-crust book club is full of lefty retired women

    they liked Bloomberg and Klobuchar

    See, the word giving you trouble there is ‘lefty’. You are looking at wealthy right-wing people who happen to have some socially liberal idiosyncracies. You are NOT looking at lefties, or really Democrats in a traditional sense, and the reason they want Bloomberg is they are essentially the same as Trump voters, IGMFY protecting their privilege.

    There are very few of those people in the USA compared to those at risk from a Trump/Bloomberg style Presidency. (I’m not going to include Klobuchar: good for them for also considering a Democrat)

  193. 193.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Betty Cracker: It is the truth. An American President had no business going there in the first place. Especially after Kashmir and the citizenship bill, lending American legitimacy to Modi’s second term is the outrage. Not the boorish as expected behavior from the Orange One.

    I disagreed with our blog host, I expected more of him.  My bad.

    I have been reading of people being burned alive in their homes from 85 years olds to infants just because they are Muslim, all of yesterday and the past few days. One instance is worse than another.

    @satby: Just because I don’t agree does not mean I don’t understand what is being said.  I love your condescension BTW.

  196. 196.

    Chyron HR

    @Chris Johnson:

    they are essentially the same as Trump voters, IGMFY protecting their privilege.

    I thought Bernie said that Trump voters are the downtrodden proletariat who’ve been abandoned by liberal identity politics.  Is that statement no longer operative?

  198. 198.

    Jinchi

    @Immanentize: it is worth noting that the first-in-the-nation primary allows voters registered with neither party to vote in whichever primary they choose.

    Note they don’t cite any evidence that Republicans crossed over in large numbers, just that it’s possible. Every election we hear suggestions that trolls are going to cross over, and to that extent this problem is baked into the averages. And this is hardly unique to New Hampshire. Changing registration is trivial in many states. In California, you can switch parties, vote and switch back on the same day.

    And I know it sounds crazy, but there are actually a few Republicans who don’t want Trump re-elected, and yes some will vote in the Democratic primary in hopes that someone like Biden will be the nominee, rather than a socialist.

  200. 200.

    Geminid

    Buttegiege could make a run at Mike Braun’s Indiana senate seat in 2022. Joe Donnelly held it 2012-18, did not lose it by too much. And Braun is thoroughly mediocre.

  202. 202.

    Shalimar

    @satby: I understand you’re tired of constantly defending his lack of experience.  But “sit down and shut up. you get to vote, not talk about why” doesn’t seem like what you really believe.

  204. 204.

    Chris Johnson

    @Chyron HR: Don’t ask me, man, I’m Warren all the way.

    If you want to troll really effectively, you can always work on getting me to refuse to vote if Bernie is the nominee again. I eventually came down off that position because I figure the Dems can control him and he’ll be obligated to go along with stuff/legislation he won’t himself be writing, and judicial nominations he won’t himself be making. That offsets his obvious russianocity.

    Bloomberg is the only one remaining that I simply would not check that box, even while voting Dem across the board for literally everything else. Anyone coming off all ‘I’m a lefty but I am voting Bloomberg’: no, no you’re not that thing at all. Furthermore, if that’s your angle, you are probably a working troll because why are you cloaking yourself or your story in ‘I’m a lefty’ if you value it that little? If you say ‘I know a bunch of wealthy retired professionals and they might vote Bloomberg, or Trump’ this is much less surprising, and also it’s not a trolling angle to say a thing that obvious. The trolling technique is to say ‘oh look the LEFT wants to vote Trump’ or some such nonsense.

  206. 206.

    Ben Cisco

    @E.: I’m sad to say that Mama Cisco has reported similar findings among her cohort (retired educators!) – with many of them leaning at this point toward Bloomberg. One stated outright that she doesn’t believe that a woman, ANY woman, can be elected President at this point.

    Turns out that 2016 was even more traumatizing than I had thought…

  208. 208.

    Betty Cracker

    @schrodingers_cat: You implied Cole only cares about the breach of etiquette, not the atrocities. That’s not true, and there’s no basis for suggesting it. It was a shitty thing to say.

  211. 211.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Betty Cracker: Okay let me clarify I don’t for a minute believe that JGC is more worried about being Ms Manners and is excusing genocide. JGC is a good soul without a mean bone in his body. But I think it was thoughtless to focus on the Orange One being a terrible guest when the host is a genocidal maniac drunk on power. Whose main focus this term has been marginalizing Muslims in India.

    An American President ( a normal one like the one we had until 2016) should not have accepted the invitation or sent someone else to send a message.

    (Delhi is his second pogrom, Godhra Gujarat in 2002 was the first one)

  213. 213.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Ben Cisco:One stated outright that she doesn’t believe that a woman, ANY woman, can be elected President at this point.

    She must have not been around for the same 2016 election I was. You know, the one where a woman got 3 million more votes than the man and lost the election thru a perfect storm of electoral college fuckery?

  214. 214.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @schrodingers_cat:  I agreed with Cole’s post. At this point, I expect Trump to be a monster. I expect him to applaud and encourage mass murder. It is who he is and why he must be defeated. At the same time, it still amazes me that he is completely unable to simulate any kind of normal human interaction. As people have pointed out, he is fractally awful.

  216. 216.

    satby

    @Shalimar: not what I said. What I said is don’t be dictating other people’s life choices. But since you’re not going to discuss what I said, let’s just not discuss with each other at all.

  218. 218.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @A Ghost To Most: Yeah, it’s kind of a universal principal that applies everywhere, city, country…. But it was a joke. Do you remember what a joke is? And in my many years of experience out west I can state unequivocally that there is no shortage of stupid people out there too. And yet, God smiles on them anyway.

  219. 219.

    satby

    @Geminid: and depending on circumstances in 2022 he may. However, there’s no open Senate seat now, and he was originally considering running for governor, which he’s stated multiple times. And he’s second in delegate count right now, though certainly that will change, so “the kid” seems to know a few things about politics.

    Edit: and this is ridiculous to discuss, he’s in this race now. We need to deal with what is, not what we wish it was. A huge problem in politics in this country.

  221. 221.

    glory b

    @p.a.: Rachel Bitecofer said her research indicates that whoever wins should pick Stacey Abrams. She believes that the key to winning is to get out the vote for people of color, and Stacey would be best at that.

    And, Abrams already has a start on this with her get out the vote/registration campaign.

    Bitecofer is the analyst who predicted the 2018 House races almost perfectly, and stuck to her prediction when others started to back away from such a favorable outcome for Dems.

  223. 223.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Omnes Omnibus: Cole even said “I know this is a minor thing considering everything they have done” and in his first paragraph talked about how Trump’s people have and are doing much worse than this and it doesn’t really matter.

    His disbelief and outrage seem to come from what you say – that JFC, these assholes can’t even pretend not to be assholes for 3 minutes straight, and they’re representing us to the world.

    “Fractally awful” is it. No matter where you look at them, they’re terrible.

  224. 224.

    dww44

    @Baud: Never underestimate the lengths and depths that Republican operatives and voters will go to to undermine Democrats and democracy.

  225. 225.

    glory b

    @Jinchi: I remember that in 2012, WV gave a LOT of primary votes to a guy running against Obama who (if I believe correctly) was, at the same time, doing time in a Texas prison on a felony conviction.

    So, maybe some ratf*****g is at least possible.

  227. 227.

    Hoodie

    Last night restored some of my initial fate in Biden because last night he finally started to look like he will be able to weather the chaos that will be involved in running against Trump.   It would be nice to have someone with great management skills who is inspiring to folks across the spectrum of the party, but we simply don’t have that.  A lot of people love Warren here, and I admire her too, but the reality is that she just is not appealing to enough people outside of a limited section of the party.  Why? Who knows, sometimes people just don’t take a shine to someone.  You can blame that on sexism, the media, etc., and you might be correct, but that’s not going to change.

    I have no illusions about Biden inspiring anyone.  Joe has never been a good campaigner in the sense of oratory or debates.  However, he is a known quantity and folks from across the spectrum of the party like him because he generally treats people well regardless of who they are.   He is good at a one-on-one kind of politics, and presidents actually do quite a bit of that in their day-to-day work.  All that stuff about being able to work with Republicans, etc., is mostly nonsense which I doubt even Biden believes, but Biden would work well with Pelosi, Schumer and the rest of the Dem congressional leadership because he understands what they face and how they have to work.   He also has a level of international experience and credibility that none of the other candidates can even come close to matching.   If he picks a Harris or an Abrams as a running mate, it would be a formidable match for Trump.

  228. 228.

    Geminid

    @satby: Not implying that Buttegiege is not a good presidential candidate, just that he would make a good Senate candidate and that Indiana Senate seats have been won and can be won by Democrats. But I was a dummie when I talked about 2022. Braun’s seat is not up until 2024.

  232. 232.

    WaterGirl

    @Kathleen: Nope, you apparently got the red right.  Imm sees it in red.  You can see from the image in my comment above that it is showing up for me as black on my mac laptop.

    But I just checked, and it’s red on my iPhone!

    P.S. You are welcome!

  233. 233.

    zhena gogolia

    This is the real reason he didn’t eat the vegetarian feast

    As long suspected, Trump is getting puréed food. It’s ridiculous how they try to frame it & what’s happening to him…Like it’s a normal way to get vegetables…for babies maybe. Sounds like Ronny has been feeding Trump purée since early 2018- which helps timestamp his condition https://t.co/ckwvFbujSr— Tom Joseph (@TomJChicago) February 25, 2020

    And of course the courtiers couldn’t eat either.

  236. 236.

    Nelle

    @Ocotillo: My county chair is very focused on the state leg. And the monthly meetings are growing here in Iowa.  The Monday newsletter notes three county wide meetings in the next few weeks, and about six subgroups for various suburbs and parts of Des Moines.  I’m impressed.  We’ve got a regressive R state senator who may be on his way out and we’ll be working towards helping him in that direction.

    What I’m not impressed with is that the DNC has put their thumb on the scale (endorsement and lots of cash) on one candidate for Ernst’s Senate seat so early (i think last October), putting other candidates at serious disadvantage from even getting in.  They chose a woman who had to drop out last time because of forged signatures.  Meanwhile, a retired vice-admiral who retired rather than serve under Trump is trying to get traction.

  238. 238.

    joel hanes

    @Shalimar:

    I don’t know how much $500,000 is on Lake Champlain.

    Bernie’s camp has 300 feet of waterfront.   And, I think, a guest house.

  239. 239.

    MDB

    @satby: What “misinformation” about Pete ?  Go on and find the lie that he is a vile, racist-as-fuck,  loser-ass centrist of a corporatist clown.  I fucking DARE YOU.

  241. 241.

    Chyron HR

    @MDB:

    What “misinformation” about Pete?

    “He’s pretending to be gay” and “He’s a CIA agent” would be high on the list.

  242. 242.

    gvg

    @Betty Cracker: My understanding is the League of Women Voters asked to be removed from running the debates so I don’t think that exact solution is possible. I don’t know the details.

  246. 246.

    Lymie

    I thought going after Bernie about Cuba was ridiculous, a lot of fake outrage all around. He only said exactly what Obama said. Pete continues to be a pompous idiot. Moderators sucked. Chris Matthews sucks. Warren was pretty fierce. The audience was obviously a paid group, who cheers for Bloomberg?  I could only watch a few minutes at a time without rage surfing to the Olympic channel.

  247. 247.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Lymie:

    rage surfing to the Olympic channel. 

    Has this sport always been played during US nighttime?  What country’s won the most medals?

  248. 248.

    Ben Cisco

    @OzarkHillbilly: She was around, voted for Hillary, saw the result. My guess is that she believes either Warren or Klobouchar would suffer the same fate, and that no one would try to do the same to Bloomie.

    It doesn’t make sense to me either.

  250. 250.

    misterpuff

    Bloomberg(re NDAs): We have addressed this. A tiny fraction of the NDAs concerning my jokes have been released by the corporation. Why is SHE relitigating this?

    Me (yelling at the TV): Because She persisted! STILL!

  251. 251.

    the Conster

    @Immanentize:

    Depends on what they’re angry about.  White supremacy?  Patriarchy putting their thumbs on the scale for mediocre white men like Bernie fucking Sanders, who did everything in his power to give us Trump?

  252. 252.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Betty Cracker: Warren is the most qualified and visionary candidate by a mile in my opinion.

    And that would be fine if the times demanded a visionary. In fact they do not. The most important tasks of the Democratic Presidential nominee will be

    1. Win by as large a margin as humanly possible
    2. Flip the Senate & cement control of the House
    3. Rescind any & all destructive executive orders issued by Agolf Twitler
    4. Remove Cheeto Benito’s tools of hatred and chaos from any & all positions within the Federal government
    5. Settle a durable progressive majority into SCOTUS, if necessary via enabling legislation expanding its  composition
    6. Ratchet down the culture-war rhetoric by reminding everyone that our tribe is the American tribe, no other tribe should come before it, fairness to our tribal brethren is the issue,  that’s what it means to be a real American, & everyone (beyond the 27% of authoritarian followers) can redeem their membership in the American tribe simply by rejecting the bigoted, hateful attitudes that they may have dabbled in over the last few years
    7. Set forth a progressive vision of the American future that does not promote any group over any other and can be achieved without damaging people who are barely hanging in as is

    Kindly note that “visionary agenda” has 6 items before it, all of which are IMO far more important & necessary. In particular I believe that achieving Point 6 is absolutely critical to stabilizing our democracy & is necessary not only to achieve the most resounding victory in November (Point One) but also to start rolling back the respectability of any form of in-group/out-group bigotry & hatred in (NB) not just refined society but American society as a whole.

    Failing that, we will be stuck with 35-40% of the electorate convinced that the “lie-bruls” have stolen the election from their hero, pissed off that they’re being denied their Dog-given right to hate whoever they want & act on it. We progressives need to face the fact that we’re not good at sustained vigilance – i.e., standing with a shotgun 24/7 over the flat rocks the neo-Nazis & Nazi-curious will have slithered back underneath. That the global oligarchy will be relentless in setting up the next pseudofascist  catspaw for the followers to march behind. And that they only need to win one more election to ensure there will never be another anywhere near “free & fair.”

    She’d be a terrific president.

    All other things being equal? Probably. Other things aren’t. Four years of struggle to implement a “visionary” agenda against the hurricane headwinds of a corrupted media, bots spreading lies & mayhem, a judiciary poisoned by Federalist ideologues, and a bunch of oligarchs with more $$$ than Dog looking for the killshot against liberal democracy.

    A Warren Administration would be near-infinitely preferable to the shouty-finger-waggy fantasy-world incompetence & staff nastiness of BS. Even so it would in all likelihood make Jimmy Carter’s single term look like the epitome of competence. Particularly if a fractious Congress (under a new Speaker) & obstructionist courts permit the rich to continue skating on their responsibility to support the government, when Warren will have to choose between backing off her plans, or taxing the middle class to pay for them – which will lead to TeaParty 2.0, disaster at the ballot box in 2022 and a GOP POTUS in 2025. And then WWBSF.

    I truly do not understand why most folks here do not grasp that all the blather about “going forward” is actively dangerous. First we have to go backward, to a time when bigotry & fascism had no place in respectable conversation. If we don’t – & in particular if we continue to typecast anyone who doesn’t share our cultural snobbishness as an unredeemable troglodyte – then we will get civil insurrection. Or fascism. Or one followed by the other. And we will deserve it.

    (BTW for an insight into where I’m coming from, try [re]reading the FTFNYT op-ed “In the Land of Self-Defeat” from 4 October 2019 – but read it as if you were one of those not-all-that-well-off Arkansans who were sold on building a new county library with fracking extraction fees, & then when the revenues declined discovered they’d be on the hook for an overbuilt edifice most of whose facilities they’d never use. Keep in mind that the author, who grew up in the area but left for college & spent her adult life near DC, is one of the few who would use those facilities [for a book she’s returned to write], & that her mother was on the committee that recommended the library. See if you can understand why the residents erupted in anger when their supposed “betters” decided how to use that “found cash” & then stuck them with the bill when the revenue model went south. That is precisely what will happen on a national scale if a Democratic administration becomes so infatuated with its “plans” that even if the rich evade funding them it will tax the non-rich to pay for them.)

  253. 253.

    J R in WV

    @Ken:

    How much hash did Shea and Wilson consume while writing this?

    Just about enough — perhaps the exact correct amount…

    I thought it was hysterically funny, both being at some of those demonstrations way back in the day, and reading the novels later on.

  254. 254.

    J R in WV

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    WOW, that is a long and serious comment, thanks.

    I would say, though that of your list of 7 crucial tasks for the next Democratic president, most of those are visionary tasks that need a visionary person to undertake and succeed with. Not sure what the library in Arkansas is all about.

    Here locally the library, currently located in a re-purposed previously Federal Courthouse, intended to fund-raise to build a new facility, but soon realized that sum was unobtainable right now.

    So they took what they could raise, and hired skilled architects to remodel, expand and improve the existing facility, which is downtown and surrounded by 3 streets and a former bank tower now upscale condos. There will be a temporary facility while construction is underway.

    I thought that was a wise decision!

  255. 255.

    topclimber

    @Uncle Cosmo: Hey thread is long dead but I hear you. But please consider that a safe strategy is not necessarily a winning one.

    If your goal is to bring us close to where we were in 2016, sometime around 2024, you keep your head down and hope that somehow a moderate Democrat can get around the rigged game that is the Senate, dark money and ongoing plutocratic war against the poor and middle class–you know, the stuff that crimped Obama from 2010 on.

    If your goal is to start correcting those fundamental problems in our country and climate chaos in the world, you need to push the agenda left.

    If your goal is to act on both fronts, you start with a ticket acceptable to both camps. Then you empower the convention to produce a platform that 90% of our office holders can 90% support.

    Sample plank. Universal health care as our goal within 10 years. Do we ultimately go with Medicare for all (all folks, all ailments, with the added benefit that when faux deficit hawks go after Medicare, suddenly folks of all ages are in it together)/? Or do we go with a flavor that let’s folks add their private insurance to the mix and at minimum takes on costs of providers and the RX cartel?

    Whatever…we leave it to a Democratic President and Congress to figure out. We run united trusting that enough Americans understand we are the party that will protect their health care, not the GOP or Trolls International.

  256. 256.

    Barb 2

    Unfortunately women can be women’s worst enemies. I’m actually seeing liberal and moderate men as stronger supporters of the two women remaining running for president.

    We don’t have the ERA today because of the anti-feminists – those haters got attention because the media invited the bi*ches on to argue the “other side”.

    Warren is running because she spent a lot of time talking to people during her bankruptcy research. She is smarter than any other candidates on the debate stage. Plus the moderators should be fired.

    There was an older gentleman who was born before the women got the right to vote. His mom faught for the right to vote and she said other women were some of the strongest  anti women’s vote voices. Women can be women’s worst enemies.

    The witch trials in Scotland – the ancient transcripts show that women were women’s worst enemies. I read these transcripts while teaching myself to read the handwriting of that era in order to do genealogy research. The witch trials transcripts are online.

    The trashing of today’s women political candidates reminds me of the old witch trials.

  257. 257.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @J R in WV: It sounds to me (& I hope) that you more or less concur that the list of tasks I presented is appropriate & necessary. I disagree that they are “visionary” in any real sense; in fact I would say they are profoundly conservative, in the best sense of conserving what has been valuable (but woefully underappreciate) in our political behavior until the recent craziness. Recall the French expression, Reculer pour mieux sauter. IMO we as a nation need to back up & gather our energies, the better to leap into the future.

    Your library story is much more admirable than the one I cited –  an excellent example of a community that understands how to live within its means, & just as importantly, why – because public monies are given in trust by that public to be spent wisely. The “opinion leaders” in that Arkansas county saw a windfall from the frackers’ extraction fees & persuaded the residents that a gaudy new library (with capabilities few of them would ever use) was the appropriate place to spend it. I’m quite sure that part of the persuasion was that “it’s not going to cost you anything” – & then when it turned out that it would cost them, they turned on the library’s proponents in fury. (Part of the proposal was to raise the salary of the head librarian – someone who was from the community – to equivalence with similar positions on the coasts. Complaints over that [ongoing] expense were answered by, “But she has a master’s degree!” Few could understand why the advanced degree should matter to them – how it would allow the librarian to better serve them – or why a relatively poor community should be expected to offer a salary commensurate with those in more affluent areas: “If she wants that kind of money, she should take a job someplace where they can afford to pay it.”)

    The main reason I cited that op-ed was to show the level of condescension the (relatively) well-educated often show for people they consider stupid. That piece fairly drips with an implied Can you believe these ignorant goobers complaining about a library? The fact that its author grew up in the area is a further slap in the face: Once she made it out of “The Sticks” she looked back at it like an anthropologist, returning after decades to tell stories about its people as if they were the quaint myths of a cargo cult.

    Trump’s “pwning the libs” gets him crazy fealty from these folks who react in fury to this sort of treatment: They call you classless slobs because you put ketchup on your steak? Well, I do the same thing, & they ridicule me too! But I’m the fuckin’ President thanks to you, & who’s laughing now?!?!

    There are a lot of left-leaning, sorta-educated people out there who despise Trump as much (or more) for his cultural “foe-paws” as for his actively harmful actions as POTUS. I consider them my allies of the moment, but they certainly aren’t my friends. Particularly because fighting this “crude beast, its hour come round at last,/ Who slouched into DC to be sworn” on the cultural issues is doomed. But more so because I believe that “there’s no accounting for taste” & that no one has standing to criticize the preferences of anyone else, so long as they aren’t imposing those preferences on me. (I won’t normally dump ketchup on a steak – but I have eaten steaks that could only be made palatable by liberal ;^D application of steak sauce, particularly  at the dinner table with Depression-scarred parents who lived as far within their means as possible; I have put ketchup on hot dogs & eaten them with relish ;^D as well as salads based on the horror! the horror! of iceberg lettuce. No one will compel me to watch NASCAR or UFC or WWE, but I will respect that there are those who appreciate them**; and I tolerate no busybody who thinks s/he can shame or cajole me into acquiring a taste for curling or badminton or “footie.”)’

    …I seem to have rambled aways afield here so I’ll quit for the moment…

    ** Note, please, the distinction between respecting someone’s preferences or beliefs and respecting that they hold such preferences and beliefs. People are IMO generally not entitled to the former, but are to the latter, if for no other reason that they serve as a guide to understanding the behavior of those who hold such preferences or beliefs.

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