As I joked on twitter, my current coronavirus prep has been to order a bunch of dog and cat food and a couple pounds of coffee, which is actually just my monthly subscription from amazon. I did stock up on the prescriptions I take, and I have a bunch of N95 masks already as well as the Breaking Bad style respirator I bought when I had to deflea the house when I bought it. Other than that, I really don’t plan on doing anything.
I wonder how this will all play out. I do think it will spread like wildfire for several reasons. The first of which is that Americans have spend 50 years convincing themselves that America has the WORLDS BEST HEALTHCARE™, so probably a lot of people won’t be as careful as they should be. A lot of people think this is something that is just happening in the backwater provinces of China, and EVERYONE KNOWS their healthcare is nothing compared to ours.
The second of which is that people don’t was their hands well enough, never have, and never will. America, fuck yeah.
The third reason is this:
Even companies that do offer sick days, best I ever had was three. So, you’re allowed to get sick once a year. Unless your kid got sick and you had to use your days in January.
— Lauren Hough (@laurenthehough) February 27, 2020
Capitalism might really kill us all. That would be ironic.
Annie
Nobody has enough sick days to stay home every single day they have any symptoms at all. and I say this as someone whose employer is very generous with paid sick days. I used a lot of them in January for a cold that hit me unusually hard. But I do still cough now and then (into a kleenex of course.)
Shana
Reminds me of the Douglas Adams bit where they fired all the telephone sanitizers and then all died off from a disease they caught from unsanitized telephones.
Man I miss him. And Molly Ivins. I’d love to be reading what they both thought of this crappy timeline we’re in.
Elizabelle
You’re a leading Democratic candidate, elderly white male, recently a heart attack survivor (maybe not for the first time — who knows?), and your job requires constant mingling with
the great unwashedAmericans, in large groups, plus — apparently in your view — shouting constantly too.How will you fare with the coronavirus out there?
LuciaMia
Have antiviral drugs like Tamiflu been shown to help at all with this current virus? If so, would it be a good idea to get a scrip from your GP to have on hand?
lee
Same here, we’ve made sure to have plenty of dog & cat food. We usually have quite a bit of ‘dry’ rations for us.
Several people I follow have pointed out some issues with the numbers China has been reporting. One of which is that party officials were told they would be sanctioned if they reported any more virus infections.
I think the CDC’s reporting will probably be more accurate unless it has to be ‘vetted’ by the White House.
Jay Noble
Perhaps we can get all the antivaxxers to throw COVID-19 parties? We’ll know who’s a potential carrier and go from there.
Alex Azar needs to host these parties dressed as Tarzan.
Mary G
My housemates are caregivers and when they moved in I was kind of gobsmacked at how many times a day they wash their hands. I do mine a lot more often due to their good example.
opiejeanne
@LuciaMia: I read that Tamiflu does nothing for COVID 19.
Baud
Quarantine means more time for BJ.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
“I’d go to the hospital, but my 7K deductible hasn’t been met and I don’t get paid time off. I know my temp is 103, but I can take some ibuprofen and ice down my armpits, right? And who wants that kind of diagnosis.”
It was this gloomy concept that had a CNBC panel stammering with stunned smug nothings this morning.
bluehill
Apparently White House press pool called for unscheduled event this afternoon. Speculation is that Trump is trying to calm markets again. Didn’t work out too well today. Futures markets open soon. We’ll see if he does any better.
Ninedragonspot
There are plenty of terrible knock-on effects even for those who don’t get sick. There are already shortages of medical supplies. School cancellations will put working parents in a bind. The virus could have a devastating impact on the performing arts sector, cinemas, museums, cafes, restaurants – anyplace people gather.
I’ve been closely following developments in Taiwan. President Tsai’s government has been handling the crisis extremely well – the total number of cases in Taiwan has been in the low 30s (compare with Korea and Japan). Her popularity is soaring. Even so, the coronavirus is still having a sizable impact on the local economy. It’s very tough to watch.
Cheryl Rofer
I bought extra cat food and litter yesterday. Also dental floss.
As things are going in the US, it looks like we aren’t going to be shut down in major ways any time soon. So if you’re stocking up, you can do it a little at a time. If a case of coronavirus is identified in your locality, that’s when to top up what you’ve got.
From what I’m seeing, it looks like in places where people are required to isolate themselves in their homes, one person is allowed to go out shopping once a week.
There’s no way to know how supply chains will hold up, though.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Elizabelle:
I think I need a cigarette after that.
Yutsano
It’s funny how many people are recommending hand sanitizer. Most hand sanitizers aren’t antiviral. It might make people feel better, but unless there’s handwashing with it as well it’s pretty much useless.
gwangung
You do see the problem here, though.
Cheryl Rofer
@bluehill: There is no way any Trump statement (other than “I am abdicating in favor of Elizabeth Warren) can calm the markets. But he will be the last one to recognize that.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Cheryl Rofer:
I bought two bigger bags of dog and cat food a couple of days ago. I may do more.
LuciaMia
My current fantasy. Trump is holding one of his rallies. Suddenly one of the people , in that greek chorus that is always standing behind him, collapses, shivering and puking. Germaphobe-in-chief panics, stumbling and almost falling ff the dias, yelling for his security detail. Film of that show on an almost continuos loop on all news outlets.
Cheryl Rofer
@Yutsano: The alcohol in hand sanitizer is some help. Washing hands is better, but if that’s not available, hand sanitizer is better than nothing.
Kent
So my oldest daughter is graduating college in 2 months with a degree in PR and Marketing and a specialty/interest in the travel and leisure sector.
Pretty damn unlucky timing.
Mary G
I have no words anymore, imagine a gif from “Animal House” of an impossibly young Kevin Bacon in a crowd shouting “All is well,” and ending up a pancake on the sidewalk. If Twitler’s approval rate doesn’t go down I give up on America.
mrmoshpotato
@Elizabelle: THE ONLY PROBLEM WE HAVE IS INCOME CORONAVIRUS INEQUALITY!
Obdurodon
@LuciaMia: Common cold/flu medications might help with symptoms, but only up to a point. After that, whether it’s flu or COVID-19 or whatever, you’re going to need real medical care. There seem to be some promising results with remdesivir and chloroquine, but nothing that could be called a cure (and I’ve heard those are both pretty nasty). The best measures for now are the classics – isolation, hand washing, etc. Doesn’t hurt to stock up on things that you’ll need if you stay isolated at home for a couple of weeks (e.g. daily medications and non-perishable food), but that’s true any time. Zeynep Tufekci wrote a really good no-nonsense guide for Scientific American.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/preparing-for-coronavirus-to-strike-the-u-s/
LuciaMia
LuciaMia
A quality brand of bourbon.
mrmoshpotato
@Cheryl Rofer: Did you buy gauze and bandages and arm-length work gloves for the inevitable when you try to floss the furball’s teeth?
wvng
Consider buying a large pack of toilet paper for storage, as well as other non perishables that you will use eventually but would want to have in the event of supply shortages. Watching how the flu very suddenly hammered my area this year with large numbers of kids home sick, this new virus could easily erupt in any community just that quickly and basically shut it down. It’s not something any of us have ever experienced but now may.
delk
30 plus years of antivirals coursing through my body better make me immune! ?
wvng
@Kent: bad luck. The travel and leisure sectors will be hit very hard.
mrmoshpotato
@Mary G: Holy forking shirt balls! (headdesk!)
NotMax
Anyone mention the Foxconn factory that switched over from making iPhones to churning out face masks? Two or three weeks ago, IIRC.
As they say in the funny books: Not a hoax, not a dream, not an imaginary story.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Kent:
As I understand, luxury travel consultants are fielding large numbers of calls from people who are looking to cancel travel plans. It has transitioned already from “I’m worried about coronavirus” to “I’m worried about spending money”.
This is at the top end of luxury leisure travel, with travelers who routinely engage in multiple trips in the 5 and 6 figure range.
We’re supposed to go to Roatan (Honduras) for a week of diving a week from Saturday. Given the stupidity of this administration, I can imagine being stranded and prohibited from re-entering my own country even without any symptoms.
Those dipshits are completely capable of that.
cain
@LuciaMia:
OH yeah, this virus thing is going to totally put a stop to the viralphobe in chief’s jaunts to connect with racist america. He might still encourage it, spreading the virus even further. But hell we know that he’s the foremost virus expert.
Speaking of incompetence – that whole thing with the HHS is not really Trump’s fault he was upset that they had brought them in, but regradless because they didn’t do proper procedure has helped spread the virus even further – never mind near an airbase.. so if the armed forces all get sick – there will be all kinds of reckoning.
They aren’t going to be able to use the same play list for this like the other shit storms. This thing will spread and it won’t give a shit who you are, and how much you donated to the Republican party, and how loyal you are to Trump. You’re going to get it and whole supply chains are going to get busted.
Russia should STFU, they are going to get hit too – maybe a good distraction away from our own election.
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
The shouting will scare away the virus. Doncha know?
He’s also in the high risk group, known as – old farts.
debbie
@Mary G:
If Trump can sue for libel, I don’t see why they can’t also.
Yutsano
@delk: I’ll get the giggles if that old bat AZT is the actual cure here.
bluehill
@Cheryl Rofer: That would the be ultimate humiliation for Trump.
VOR
Link to an NPR (yeah, I know) piece on sensible coronavirus preparation
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/26/809650625/a-guide-how-to-prepare-your-home-for-coronavirus
Dow Jones down over 1100 points today, largest drop in history on a point (not percentage) basis. Someone found an old Trump tweet where he said any President with such an event under their watch ought to be shot into the sun. Paging NASA…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Meanwhile…. trump is hosting a forum on African-American business and empowerment
apparently the meeting (photo op) was called with about an hour’s notice
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@wvng:
Cruising has been fried now for a couple of weeks. The rest is on its way.
mrmoshpotato
@LuciaMia: C’mon Dense! Let’s flee to Russia before they know we’re gone!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Yutsano:
Vigorous handwashing with soap for 20-30 seconds is preferred. But alcohol-based hand sanitizers (70% is best) on the go are pretty good at killing microorganisms
Edit: Whoops, Cheryl beat me to it
VOR
Companies are cancelling conferences. Facebook canceled their developer event, F8. Epic Games, Microsoft, and Unity will announce they are withdrawing from the Game Developers Conference in San Francisco next month. AT&T, Verizon, and IBM pulled out of the RSA conference this week. IBM was a Platinum level sponsor. A big mobile phone conference in Barcelona was canceled.
mrmoshpotato
@delk: Delk: Bring it on! (bodyslams self onto a folding table)
Martin
@Annie: I have 33 sick days and 46 vacation days banked.
Public employee.
delk
@Yutsano: heh—I tolerated AZT. It sure was an improvement over drinking aloe vera juice.
Jinchi
You know you don’t have to start by eating the cat food, right? You’re supposed to eat all the human food first.
Mary G
#Delete Facebook, part eleven million and one:
kindness
I work in a hospital. Usually we whine that we are in a locked windowless room all day. It isn’t so bad though. I don’t deal with patients face to face and no one is allowed in our area without the correctly coded badge. Except walking to and from the parking lot, bathroom and cafeteria which I’ve been avoiding.
Jinchi
@VOR: Down over 3000 points over the last week, too.
oclday
COVID19 will spread like wild fire because this administration is incompetent, they have already exposed untold thousands by not protecting those who helped the evacuees from Wuhan. We had a short window of time that the CDC was able to give us accurate information. That window is now slammed shut because they are more worried about the fricking stock market than people. Kudlow is on the task force? Really, WTF does he know about epidemiology?
JMG
Many of those service workers will stay home unpaid because their employers will send them home for lack of customers. If an area gets hit hard, don’t see too many people eager to roll through the drive-in at Mickey D’s.
HRA
@Elizabelle: During the last debate, Wilmer was not only flushed in the face. His hands when he stopped churning them around were turning blue. I have seen that happen to my Dad who survived 7 heart attacks and not the eighth one. Then during a pause in the debate, the camera was panning (?) the candidates in their row. It passed very fast over Bernie although not quite fast enough for me to see him lean over the with his face a dark color.
TS (the original)
@Annie:
My part of the world, the standard is 8 sick days per year & they can accumulate forever. Mr TS worked for the government which gives 10 sick days per year. He rarely took more than 5 but did take time off when needed. Back in 2006 he had major cancer surgery & 8 weeks (40 days) off work. He then went back part time – 3 days/week – for about 6 weeks. A month after he was back full time he had a detached retina in one eye which was another 4 weeks off work.
He didn’t miss a days pay – he did deplete the build up – but that was why it existed.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
So I bought some Milwaukee N95 respirators off Amazon on Monday. They shipped in only two days via USPS, which was insanely fast. Guess where it shipped from? San Francisco.
You know where the first confirmed COVID-19 patient they didn’t know how they contracted it was found? NorCal. In Solano County, which is pretty close to SF.
I disinfected that fucker wearing vinyl gloves with Lysol spray and Clorox wipes. The box was wrapped up in some plastic packaging to ship. Slapdash, so probably some price gouging outfit. I took no chances and disinfected the box too
bluehill
@VOR: IOC member said he would consider canceling Tokyo Olympics if this isn’t stabilized in a few months. Stock market is freaking out because virus does not appear to be contained and still a lot of unanswered questions about transmission methods and the mortality rate. It’s already starting to disrupt China-centric supply chains, but now starting to see knock-on effects on broader economy.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@oclday:
“We can’t announce or do that. It’ll cause more financial panic and ruin President Trump’s re-election chances!”
Martin
@Jinchi: I think that’s an indication Cole is more afraid of Steve than Covid.
Elizabelle
@Mary G: Or you could say they’re blocking fake science and fake cures.
No fan of Zuckerfuck and Facebook on the veracity front, but they may be trying to tamp down disinformation about health. They could care less about disinformation about politics.
I am seeing plenty of news stories about the coronavirus that are getting through just fine.
mrmoshpotato
@delk: Chug all the sunburn lotion. :)
danielx
There are upsides to working at home, but seems the five gallon bucket of kitty kibble may need to be doubled.
Elizabelle
@HRA: Someone needs to call Bernie out on this, hard.
I’ve had people tell me he released his medical records. He did not.
This affects us all. We have a need to know.
White & Gold Purgatorian
This article from Stat scares the crap out of me. I took them 10 days to get permission from the CDC to test this patient in California. And that was before Trump put Pence in charge of Covid19 response. Dear God, how many other patients with symptoms haven’t even been tested yet because the CDC said no, they don’t match our notion of who might be infected. Way to keep the numbers down, guys.
laura
Holy Schnikies 8,400 suspected cases in Cali!
I mentioned not knowing a darn thing about the economy in an earlier thread, but I’m thinking that a gigantic emergency unemployment insurance program might not be a half bad idea instead of the interest rate cut proposal that was blathered about on the npr yesterday. What say all a you all?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Spanish Flue happened during WWI were taking off sick was treason. Same Old Shit.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@White & Gold Purgatorian:
There’s no epidemic if you don’t test anybody ???
cain
@Elizabelle:
They have to. Otherwise it will get worse and then well who will use facebook if everyone is sick? So, this is making sure the business is healthy.
BTW – who is going to protect all those caged children? I’m suddenly worried about them.
Cermet
As someone who hasn’t had the flu in 44 years, I can say that the flu just isn’t something I worry about: between the vaccine many of those years, and handwashing, I’ve been very successful (not so relative to brown recluses and black windows.) That said, the corona virus is in a different class obviously and certainly more dangerous. But hand washing has been one of the best ways for avoiding the flu so that, I do believe, is hands down the best defense (besides good nutrition and sun (i.e. Vitamin D.)
debbie
@oclday:
I just saw that Mnuchin is on it, too.
Jeffro
@bluehill:
Is that the one he had with diamond and silk?
TS (the original)
@VOR:
Apparently this one was not a real tweet – the one where he tweeted “If the dow loses 1000 points over 2 days, the president should be impeached” was a trump tweet.
cain
@laura:
Well shit, I’ll be in the bay area on Sunday. This is not good.
Ivan X
I plan to just die. Fuck it.
Roger Moore
@Obdurodon:
My mantra for this whole thing has been “if you’re prepared for a generic disaster, you’ll be mostly prepared for this specific disaster”. Have enough supplies that you can survive without needing to leave your home for a couple of weeks, and you’re well on your way to being prepared for most disasters.
laura
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): she’s intubated and on a ventilator at the UC Davis Med Center just up the street from my house. 2 Sac State students were exposed during her transport. I’m picking up critter chow and bum wad on the way home just because we’ll need it anyway.
mrmoshpotato
@Ivan X: We all do. I mean that’s kinda the literal endgame of this life thing. :)
bluehill
@Jeffro: Don’t know. Just some twitter chatter I saw and haven’t seen anything else about it.
Fair Economist
Pence was appointed to run a cover-up. This will come out shortly – already partly has with the evacuation worker whistleblower. The other thing we know about that was crazy was the super restrictive testing criteria. Both those decisions were totally insane and would never have been made by any qualified appointee, so they were made by political appointees. I’ll bet there are more.
If it gets out that Trump appointees made decisions that basically guaranteed a big outbreak in the US, over the strenuous objections of department experts, this becomes WAY bigger than Katrina – because Bush, even with his nyu-clur level of mismanagement, did not cause the hurricane itself.
Pence isn’t running anything. He is trying, desperately, to keep the truth of these decisions from coming out. Note he’s not been given any authority over action, just over releases on information.
Origuy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
In Solano County, which is pretty close to SF.
20 miles as the crow flies, and on the other side of the Bay. Get some perspective.
Kent
I think the longest land border in the world is between Russia and China. Just saying…
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@laura:
Any word on how old the patient is? Conditions? I understand this information would be protected under HIPPA I believe
Fair Economist
@laura:
Not that bad – it’s 8,400 under observation because of foreign travel to suspect locations. However, there is a suspected patient in Orange County, and I’ll bet there’s one in SF as well based on the emergency calls.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Origuy:
I’m aware. But this thing has perhaps been spreading under the radar for weeks. 20 miles is nothing. I felt it was better to be safe rather than sorry
Ivan X
@Kent: makes me wonder what the shortest one is. Corners don’t count.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Fair Economist:
Fuck these people. If a lot of people die this will be on their heads and they will be held accountable
Mary G
I endorse this message.
wvng
I would be surprised if the national political conventions are held. They are months away, and the odds that this thing hasn’t exploded in at least some American communities seem remote. Is a political party really going to bring all their people together into one giant Petri dish?
White & Gold Purgatorian
@cain: From what I have read, this disease isn’t hitting children hard at all. The vast majority of fatalities are people over 50. So, instead of worrying about the kids in cages getting sick, maybe worry about their jailers? Or don’t…
Martin
@Cermet: I was pretty much in the same spot a few years ago. I was in good shape – 5K run every other day, other exercise in between. Got a cold, turned into a pneumonia. Doctor warned me to take it easy, might take a month or two to recover from – I was nearing 50 and it takes longer, yadda, yadda.
Psh. Look at me – I’m in great shape. I’ll be running again in a week – you watch. Fucking knocked me on my ass. I tried to keep walking at least. Walked until I was dizzy and had to sit down. Maybe it helped a bit, but it did take 2 months to get over. It was humbling to say the least.
I’m a white male who looks younger than I am. I am used to charging through the world without a care. That was quite a reminder that I need to take this shit seriously.
Martin
@White & Gold Purgatorian: Kids go home to their parents. They bring the virus with them.
Roger Moore
@cain:
It’s absolutely his fault. He put bozos in charge of HHS, so he’s at fault when HHS makes dumb, avoidable mistakes.
Sally
@LuciaMia: The answer is no. Current anti viral medications are ineffective against Covid-19.
Ed: Day late and dollar short!
Kent
Of COURSE it’s the fucking Trump Administration’s fault. Trump put a pharma exec in charge of HHS and they have spent the past 3 years diligently purging and reassigning competent professional employees for being insufficiently willing to sabotage and undermine the ACA. And they have been slow-walking backfills of staff vacancies because they don’t give a shit.
You break the Federal government, you own it.
Jeffro
@Mary G: this is how we bring the party together…
mrmoshpotato
@Fair Economist:
Ooooo I blame Shrub for massively bungling the Hurricane Katrina response, but I never thought of blaming those bastards for the hurricane itself.
Thank you.
Republicans cause hurricanes!
LuciaMia
A little harder to do these days with rampant Social Media
Chyron HR
@Elizabelle:
You can’t be a messiah if you’re not willing to die to save mankind.
mrmoshpotato
@Kent: Wait, isn’t China a made-up hoax?
I keep hearing a Dayglo orange manbaby bellowing something to that effect.
Kent
You want to really fuck with the universe. Go to a big MAGA rally, take lots of selfies of yourself swimming in the sea of red hats, hopefully in the same frame as Trump, then announce the next day that you may have been exposed to coronavirus the day before.
khead
@Martin:
I rarely take the opportunity to flex over it but….. telecommuter here. Heh.
Maybe I should stock up on some shit though. At least grab some extra food for the cats like Cole.
Sally
Elizabelle
Top of the WaPost right now. Uncompromising language.
Do let me know if FTF NYTimes ever comes out with something this plainly stated.
“Hollowed out the very government agencies …”
They did not say “Democrats say that President Trump has hollowed out the very government agencies …”
Props to the WaPost.
chris
@Kent: Longest land border is between the US and Canada.
https://www.traveller.com.au/country-with-the-most-national-borders-worlds-longest-national-borders-h1504q
Jinchi
Alas, I have a couple of anti-vaxxers in my family with 6 kids between them.
LuciaMia
@Kent: That would be totally evil.Yet why do I still wish it would happen.
White & Gold Purgatorian
@Martin: Yep. And their grandparents. Kids are perfect little vectors. My sister is 70+ and regularly cares for her great-grandkids. She at least gets the flu shot but still comes down with a significant portion of the stuff they bring home. I worry for her if this becomes widespread because the parents have not been good about teaching hand washing, use of tissues, etc., and sis is in a bad demographic for this disease.
LongHairedWeirdo
Hee. I remember an episode of ER where one of the (reception?) workers (a guy) was found to be passing around a staph infection. It comes from not washing your hands, after you use the bathroom.
I remember his shocked “EVERY TIME?” response when told he had to wash his hands after using the toilet. All jokes about peeing on your fingers aside, yes, your junk can get touched by a fart (much less interesting than touched by an angel, for all the various jokes that can be made), plus you’d be surprised how often a guy decides to fiddle or scratch a bit, without really consciously thinking about it. Plus, heck, it’s a warm, damper-than-dry, area – ideal for growing bacteria.
*YOU* never got sick, because *you* are used to all those bacteria. Your family probably never got sick because they’ve also gotten used to it (though they may have, and you (plural) may never have had any reason to connect the two). Other people could get sick – that’s why there’s such a strict hand washing policy in food handling; it’s not that your hands are so specifically filthy; it’s that you’re handing over the germs on your hand to people who have never been exposed to that particular one before.
I used to work in a crowded IT environment (we called them “vendor caves” – I’m betting at least one or two Juicers will have a guess as to what major software company I was a vendor for! ) and I learned the value of washing my hands, not because I’ve got the creeping crud, but because anyone might have it (including me!), and I might have touched any one of a dozen things that that one person touched (maybe something as innocuous as a doorknob).
Hand washing is your best defense; 70% or better alcohol based hand sanitizers help a lot, but aren’t perfect – e.g., I believe most (all?) flu viruses are killed or rendered inert by alcohol; most bacteria will be, but absolutely, positively, *NOT* all viruses are. So handwashing is better than sanitizer, always, but if you can’t wash, alcohol based sanitizer is better than nothing.
Oh: and, helpful hint: DO NOT forget hand lotion. You may not need it, but if you do, start using it early. Not only is dry, cracked skin a possible way in for a microscopic invader, it makes you less willing to wash your hands (because “ow”), and makes you want to finish up quickly, rather then giving them a good going over (remember, scrape some suds under your fingernails, and make sure every surface of your hand has had soap rubbed into it). You need to think “I’m going to wash these hands again *SOON*, and frequently – are they going to be happy with that? Will they still be happy tonight? And tomorrow?”
The hand lotion suggestion goes double if you use hand sanitizer. Alcohol actually draws water away from your skin – its hydrophilic properties are why you might dump some in your gas tank to suck moisture out of your fuel lines. Ideally, you want to have your own hand lotion, too. Does that sound silly? It really isn’t. It’s not *critical*, but it’s far from silly, if you see the distinction.
jl
We still don’t know what a big outbreak and subsequent epidemic would look like in places like Western Europe or the US. Published models of the epidemic in Wuhan that I’ve seen include the effect of sustained and substantial transmission from whatever animals that carried it in the food markets to humans, That may have set off the epidemic like pouring a stream of gasoline on a fire. And then, the disease circulated for a while before it was recognized.
Cole is imagining the worst case scenario, where the US has big outbreaks, travel into and out of certain areas is banned, events canceled and people spending most of their time at home for several months.
But, best case scenario is that resources are provided to allow public health authorities to level maximum control on small outbreaks for diagnosed individuals, at least until a reliable highly effective vaccine is developed and given to most of the population. So that probably requires that a cheap and very quick diagnostic test is developed and widely distributed and used, aggressive contact tracking for diagnosed individuals, and they abide by 2 week self-quarantines. Then, if we’re lucky, we’ll have permanent programs like we do for serious STDs and TB, but for this new virus. Unless some unexpected good news comes, probably this will be a new endemic disease that will always have to be aggressively controlled to prevent large outbreaks.
So, Azar saying that there is no reason to cut into corporate profits for a patented vaccine to make it available to everyone is very bad. And our new novel coronavirus czar Pence let a needle exchange program (IIRC it was needle exchange) rot for lack of funds until there was a public health emergency in Indiana.
So far, the type of people at the very top are not overly promising for the best case scenario. Maybe call your Congressperson to complain.
mrmoshpotato
@LongHairedWeirdo: What about farting in people’s general direction?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@mrmoshpotato:
Fecal-Oral route ;p
Chris Johnson
@Kent: I have a friend who’s like, if I die of coronavirus I want you to basically yeet my corpse into a Trump rally :D
I think that’s fair. Most of us cannot protect ourselves or get tested for cost reasons. So basically, if your number comes up, try making LOTS of new friends among the MAGA hordes. With extra hugs. Don’t wait until they are yeeting your corpse into the throng! That is messy and probably not as effective!
Barbara
@LuciaMia: I don’t know how Tamiflu works (it’s no more than moderately effective) but Covid-19 is not a flu virus and seems primarily to target the lungs, so I would not expect it to work.
Martin
@jl: It was a clean needle program. And it wasn’t the public health emergency that triggered the change, it’s that he prayed over it, according to him.
That’s what we’re relying on at this stage – if Pence prays real good, maybe we’ll get an effective public health policy.
mrmoshpotato
@Chris Johnson: “Corpse coming through! Big, BIG Trump fan! Totally braindead.”
Elizabelle
The FTF NY Times redeems themselves. Yes, top story is the stock market. But they gave us Gail Collins.
… Our president had to be going crazy over a problem that involves both declining stock prices and germs. This is the guy, after all, who thinks shaking hands is “barbaric,” who is followed around by aides bearing sanitizer. During his press conference he told the story of a fever-ridden supporter who gave him a hug. Do you think it was an apocryphal fantasy? Either way, the idea has been haunting him forever.
Meanwhile, he’s come up with a totally new explanation for the stock market skid. It turns out investors were not frightened so much by the pandemic as the Democratic debate.
“I think the financial markets are very upset when they look at the Democrat candidates standing on that stage making fools out of themselves,” Trump told reporters.
Plus that virus thing is … not necessarily a big deal. What really “shocked” him, Trump said, was his discovery that “the flu in our country kills 25,000 people to 69,000 people a year.”
… The run-up to the Pence unveiling had not been exactly calming for citizens who wanted to have faith in competent White House oversight. Barack Obama used to have special epidemic-watching groups just in case this kind of crisis developed. One was headed by the highly regarded Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer, who got sent packing by John Bolton. Another infectious disease expert, Tom Bossert, suddenly vanished from the Department of Homeland Security in 2018, presumably also at the hand of John You-know-who.
If Bolton’s memoir ever makes it into print, do you think it’ll have a chapter called “My War on Pandemic Fighters?” OK, probably not.
Virus Week hasn’t really provided a whole lot of comfort to citizens who wanted to believe the president’s replacements were super high quality.
Jinchi
For the Trump administration, PR is everything. It was reported that Health Secretary Azar was blindsided and shocked to learn that Pence was named to lead the coronavirus response. But he probably doesn’t need to worry. Since then it’s become clear that Pence is there to make sure people like Anthony “it will take 12-18 months to deploy a vaccine” Fauci, never again contradict Donald “we’re very close to a vaccine” Trump.
LongHairedWeirdo
@mrmoshpotato: Believe it or not, underwear provides sufficient protection, according to a semi-scientific study I heard.
The story went, one day a nurse voiced the tiniest of joking concerns that she had a bad case of gas, and hoped it wouldn’t affect the OR. One of the doctors, surely interested only in the scientific principles, and not by juvenile interest in the vulgar, decided to find out, and spent the next few days farting into petri dishes.
Outerwear, and underpants, allowed no bacteria through (or none easily detectable), but bare (unsurprisingly) allowed plenty – more than enough to grow a healthy culture. (Is that what they call microbes grown in a petri dish? I never learned much about bio; as a math geek, I found physics far more interesting.)
So unless you act like a French knight while mooning them, no risk; but drop trou, and you can imagine it’s both chemical and biological warfare (though the distance might prove to be a factor for both – unless you’re a Bad Janet (cf: “The Good Place”).
mrmoshpotato
@Elizabelle: Dump thinks shaking hands is barbaric? Is that why he tries to shake people’s arms off instead?
jl
A problem with Azar’s reasoning is that there is a problem with profit maximizing companies providing prevention and treatment products and services for infectious diseases. Their profit maximizing solution tends to settle at a very expensive very socially suboptimal control program. They’ll want a higher level of disease so they can sell more to control the disease. So you get excessive costs of the products and services they sell, and a high cost of the disease itself. Theory and evidence agree on that. The problem occurs with both competitive and monopoly markets.
Kent
The point isn’t to actually infect them. Just get get the entire Trump campaign and 10,000 MAGAts locked up into preventative quarantine for a month or so on a false alarm
Oops….
Elizabelle
And who is hiring the crack team that will protect us from coronavirus, and run our government?
Moar Gail Collins (link above):
Losing faith in presidential appointees for health protection? Stop being so negative. They’re all vetted by the Presidential Personnel Office, which is now headed by John McEntee, 29, who was previously fired from another White House job because of concerns about a history of gambling problems and tax issues.
McEntee will be getting plenty of help from other stellar appointees, the newest being a 23-year-old college undergraduate. Together they’re going to be cleaning house, getting rid of folks who are insufficiently loyal to the president. Or maybe aren’t qualified or something. Never can tell.
You cannot make this crap up. It’s all true. It would get your screenplay, your play, your novel trashed. Because it’s too much piling on. And people just can’t act that irresponsibly.
Can they?
Incitatus for Senate
Where is all this hand sanitizer bullshit coming from? The CDC says it works for Coronavirus, and it’s easy to find summaries of real studies that show the same thing.
The last thing we need is more disinformation.
Humdog
I was under the impression that the correct masks to protect against transmission are in short supply. It would therefore be irresponsible to take any of those masks out of the hands of front line medical workers. Unscrupulous sellers are getting in the way of the medical profession needs. Why would a dude in a small town in WV need a medical grade mask?
geg6
I am extremely lucky with sick days from my employer. I get twelve per year and can accumulate them. I am also lucky in that I am not often ill and have had no extended illnesses or surgeries. I could take months off and be paid for every day. I shouldn’t be lucky. Everyone should have that freedom and security.
Elizabelle
@LongHairedWeirdo:
“People. This is no time for going commando.”
mrmoshpotato
@LongHairedWeirdo:
Let’s be serious. Is there any other way?
Sally
@Sally: And gloves. Wearing gloves when you go out will help to stop you from touching your face and can be removed to eat. Washed and sun dried when arriving home. Sun (UV) breaks down many viruses.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@mrmoshpotato:
Ever watched the Life of Brian?
Roger Moore
@Kent:
Nope. The longest land border is between the US and Canada. The border with China isn’t even Russia’s longest; they have a longer border with Kazakhstan.
mrmoshpotato
@Elizabelle: Commando
mrmoshpotato
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Oddly, no.
Elizabelle
@mrmoshpotato: Of course there’s an Arnold movie for that.
mrmoshpotato
@Elizabelle: Would you want to live in any other world?
Chris Johnson
@Kent: Oh no no. The point is to infect them.
The phrase ‘hoist by their own petard’ comes to mind.
This is not fucking around. This is basically war, and now it’s not just immigrant children in cages and such things: no, now the MOTUs and oligarchs are led by an asshole who is prepared to risk the POPULATION for his own convenience.
This is no longer a matter of mere politics or trolling. These choices will KILL us quite directly, and the people who’ve arranged for current asshole to be in charge are sitting there with mixed messages and still subject to ‘yah own the libs and their stupid viruses’ idiocy, and their leader has betrayed them and the people in charge are protecting the profits of private medicine companies.
If you seem to be getting coronavirus, best wishes for a recovery, but you DEFINITELY should go around trying to infect Republicans. What, we’re gonna protect them from their own consequences for some reason? How much more ugly does it need to get before we understand that this is war?
Amir Khalid
@mrmoshpotato:
Remember what Bruce Springsteen called him? President Bystander. You guys might want to keep that nickname in mind for the current White House occupant.
White & Gold Purgatorian
@Humdog: You can buy those masks at Home Depot. Or you could until approximately yesterday. My pack rat self checked our paint and tool cupboards and found two partially used boxes of the 3M N95 masks -total of 9 which is enough for peace of mind for the 3 of us. I doubt they are the same as the ones used in hospitals, but should help in a pinch. However, hand washing, gloves and staying home a lot form our first line of defense.
NotMax
@Incitatus for Senate
No one is saying don’t use it. Just not to rely on it if/when soap and water is at hand for a thorough washing.
Amir Khalid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
The French Knight reference is from Monty Python and The Holy Grail.
Incitatus for Senate
@NotMax:
Comment 15:
”Most hand sanitizers aren’t antiviral. It might make people feel better, but unless there’s handwashing with it as well it’s pretty much useless.”
debbie
@NotMax:
I use a fair amount of hand sanitizer at work, what with the hundreds of other people around touching door knobs, stair rails, etc. There are dispensers in the hallways, and when I walk by one, I swipe and a blob of it comes out.
The cafeteria is even scarier. There are open boxes of plastic silverware; you just reach in and grab one. Hard pass, I keep a box of them in my desk. To be honest, I can’t believe the Health Department hasn’t put a stop to it.
jl
@Martin: IIRC Pence’s neglect of the program did eventually lead to a public health emergency, and then something had to be done after the damage got to great. Maybe I don’t remember well.
But if I do, then in a sense, Pence could say his praying worked, eventually…
Tinkletoes
My girlfriend came home from a trip to Florida two weeks ago with symptoms of the virus, weariness,bit of temperature and a bad cough. In the 13 years we’ve been together this is the first time I’ve seen her with a cold or flu like symptoms. I get everything so I get a sore throat for a couple days then it’s in my sinuses,runny nose, sneezing. Then its in my lungs and I’m coughing and Hacking up thick white phlegm for a couple of days. I think I’ve got it beat but my lungs are still a little messed up so I’m going to try to take it easy for a couple days to keep the pneumonia at bay. Long story short, l would not be surprised if we just had it. We live in rural southwest Virginia, not by god!, the horney one, so l guess if we see the old-timers start dropping we’ll know.
Kent
@Roger Moore: Yeah, OK. I was going from memory and was wrong. But it is still a massively long land border with lots of crossing and smuggling back and forth. Russia is not going to be isolated from this crisis.
opiejeanne
@VOR: Tourism in France is down about 30% right now, mostly the visitors they get from Asia. Iceland Air has been refunding on all flights to and from China and other parts of Asia.
We’re going to be in France from late April to near the end of May, unless our flights are cancelled, which may happen. We’re flying on Iceland Air. I’ve made only a few reservations at hotels, not making any more unless they’re refundable. We have trip insurance, but I’m not sure if we’ll need to invoke it.
PaulWartenberg
References to Stephen King’s The Stand has gone up 99.44 percent.
opiejeanne
@Mary G: FORSYTHIA!!!
If you’ve seen “Contagion” you’ll understand.
MobiusKlein
@laura: Incorrect.
a very different thing.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Gavin-Newsom-coronavirus-California-people-monitor-15089928.php
Ksmiami
@Chris Johnson: if I get it, I’m heading to a Maga rally then a mega church. Fuck Trump and his supporters time for payback
MoCA Ace
house on 80 acres at the end of a long driveway . check
in a sparsely populated town, check
lots of accumulated sick time and vacation, check
90% of my work is outdoors and not among people or could be done from home, check
chickens and a freezer full of food, check
probably three months of canned goods, check
plenty of masks for dust control in the workshop, check
Wife works at a pharmacy where every sick person in town passes through daily, FUCK!
death it is then.
Bill Arnold
@LuciaMia:
No, but plenty of other drugs are undergoing trials.
Coronavirus puts drug repurposing on the fast track – Existing antivirals and knowledge gained from the SARS and MERS outbreaks gain traction as the fastest route to fight the current coronavirus epidemic. (Nature Biotech, news, 27 February 2020)
See “Table 1 | Selected repurposed drugs in clinical development to treat COVID-19”
Two phase-3 trials of remdesivir:
Gilead Sciences Initiates Two Phase 3 Studies of Investigational Antiviral Remdesivir for the Treatment of COVID-19 (February 26, 2020)
dnfree
@Martin: I had pneumonia once, just before I turned forty. I am scared of ever having it again. If I ever get a cold or fever that doesn’t seem to be getting better after 4-5 days, I am at the doctor’s having my lungs checked. Never want to experience that again. I had young kids and yet I felt like I didn’t care if I lived or died.
Tom Fisher
@Shana: Moly was one of my favorites. Where are these great ones when we need them?
Mike in Pasadena
Speaking of lack of hand washing, I observe guys at my gym leaving the urinals or the stalls and walking directly out to the floor to start lifting weights without washing their hands. When I finish lifting, I return to the sinks to wash my hands and my water bottle very thoroughly, then I return to the bikes for cardio. I suppose people call me paranoid, but I don’t know very many people who can piss or shit and remain sanitized without washing their hands. When I worked in a large office, I often observed the same behavior. So yes, Americans have no real hand washing skills. It makes me wary of eating in restaurants. When I was in culinary school, the hand washing wasn’t much better and sometimes I watched students lick their fingers and return to task. I brought my lunch from home.
J R in WV
@Humdog:
Because he used pesticides on his newly purchased house which was overridden with fleas, because of Walter being trapped inside by the previous owner.
I have masks too, because I did wood work, generating much very fine dust from oak plywood. People do things that, to be safe, you need a respirator, even a moon suit. Pesticides are a big reason but not the only one.
But you wouldn’t know about that, right?
Another Scott
@Incitatus for Senate:
You’re overstating what the CDC has said.
CDC:
Purell is 70% ethanol.
It’s clear that the CDC (and WHO) recommend hand washing first and foremost, and sanitizers (> 60% alcohol) only as a backup.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Percysowner
@geg6: Agreed. I’m retired now, but when I worked I got 1.25 days of sick leave every month and they could accumulate as long as I was working there. Heck they paid me for 1/4 of my accumulated days when I left. My son-in-law had so many days off that he has had to sell back vacation time because he has hit his maximum accumulation and gifted time to employees in his department because he had so much sick time. He blew a lot of that when they had a child, but it meant that he took off 3 months with full pay. That is the way it should be everywhere. Thank you public employee unions.
Incitatus for Senate
@Another Scott: That’s great if you have access to soap and water 24 hours a day, its kind of difficult to wash your hands every time you walk into a store, then every time you walk out of a store, every time someone hands you something, every time you realize you touched your face, and so on.
And hand washing is only better when its done right, which most of us don’t do.
pluky
@Yutsano: Hmm, possibly. Like HIV, coronaviruses are RNA based. AZT as a Uridine analog works as a disrupter of the reverse transcription to DNA needed for retroviral replication. And there’s the rub, coronaviruses are not retroviruses! The viral genome can commandeer the host ribosome directly without need of a DNA reverse transcript. So if AZT is effective against COVID-19, it will be using a novel pathway not currently observed with other coronaviruses.
Annamal
Potentially the first case in New Zealand has just been found. It seems pretty inevitable that it will come here eventually but I’m hopeful that the public health response will be up to it.
Our public health system is underfunded but at least it can be co-ordinated.
Humdog
@J R in WV: I wouldn’t know about this?
My husband is in automotive body repair. His business’s regular order for 3M masks was not filled and they said all masks are reserved for medical personnel. Now, he will be exposed to sand dust and paint. Hearing that others are buying masks, today, gets under my skin.
Why did you need to respond with that last line? Pretty assholey.
Another Scott
@Incitatus for Senate: You seem to be willfully misinterpreting the recommendations.
Cheers,
Scott.
Be BernieAPOSTROPHEs Valentine
Melancholia on the mind
Odie Hugh Manatee
Stay away from the big box stores; the customers will shop while infected/sick and the employees will come to work infected/sick because many of them have no insurance (lots of part timers) and the ones who do have it have policies that are shitty and they can’t afford to use them on their shitty pay.
Stocked up on N95 & P95 masks here, pantry and deep freeze are packed.
Barb 2
Coronavirus or the revenge of the bat?
There is a large bat in Asia that is suspected to be the source of this virus. These bats are cute things from the photos I’ve seen. The Chinese like to eat rare things. Apparently the idiots are still buying bats in Chinese meat markets. Must be Republicans.
So I call this the revenge of the bats.
I did Bing search for – coronavirus bats – and there are lots of articles plus photos. African bats also carry coronavirus. American bats are smaller and are dealing with their own plague. I’m a fan of bats, the fruit bats are big and harmless.
How about some rat on the menu?
satby
The obsession with face masks for non-medical personnel is weird to me, so I looked it up. Not all that helpful.
laura
@MobiusKlein: you are correct and I erred.