(Even after he tried to hoard all the ribs, and she threatened to stab him with a fork.)
At rally for Warren in Charleston, John Legend says he already voted early in CA.
“I put it in pen early. I made my decision and I'm not changing my mind."
— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) February 27, 2020
Thing is — I’ve said this before — even if she’s not the nominee, Senator Warren already has a job she loves, and that she’s good at. So while I would very much prefer, given the current options, that she be our next president, well…
Tomorrow, I’m introducing a plan that takes every dime Donald Trump is spending on his wall, and diverting it to fighting the coronavirus. #CNNTownHall
— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) February 27, 2020
Watch this video and elect this woman president. pic.twitter.com/eTsEr8Lfo0
— Sawyer Hackett (@SawyerHackett) February 26, 2020
My favorite part of this video is when the guy counters by being like “the will of the voters must be respected because Bernie won 22 states 2016” and like brother I don’t know how to break this to you but sure sounds someone else won the other 28 https://t.co/u6urlrRqRB
— Ben Dreyfuss (@bendreyfuss) February 27, 2020
????????? @ewarren #Warren2020 pic.twitter.com/cjvYcQTGM6
— ?? OTEP SHAMAYA ?? (@otepofficial) February 27, 2020
Scout211
I voted early here in California, too. I voted for Warren and I checked the vote by mail checker on my county’s elections website to make sure it was a good ballot and it counted. It was and it did.
Bruuuuce
That guy who makes the “22 states” comment (a) didn’t do the math, (b) seems to believe Wilmer has already won those states again, and (c) comes across as wanting to whinge that it’s BS’s turn, and he shouldn’t ought to have to work so HARD for it.
Ruckus
@Bruuuuce:
As dad would have said, can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Most of the things I seen attributed to BS fans can be described by his initials. They want what they want and they want it now. And they are going to hold their breath till they get it.
Chyron HR
@Bruuuuce:
They literally believe that Clinton’s 2016 campaign slogan was “It’s my turn”, so why shouldn’t they expect deference when they declare that it is now in fact BERNIE’S turn?
Ronno2018
Maybe we do focus groups next time instead of primaries and the candidates need to be the same percentage gender and race of the US population? Also anyone with a net worth of over $2 million not allowed.
clay
@Chyron HR:
They don’t realize that it was Clinton’s “turn” because she spent
yearsdecades of building up relationships and goodwill within the party.Bernie has… not done that. In fact, sometimes it seems he’s done the opposite of that.
rk
I love Elizabeth Warren. Even if she doesn’t get the nomination she’ll still be the woman who took down Bloomberg. The guy spent 400 million dollars in ads and it took her around 60 secs to verbally stab him and repeatedly twist the knife. The expression on his face was priceless. $400 million for ads, but can’t pay someone a couple thousand to provide him with plausible sounding answers to questions he should have known were coming. Even high schoolers can hire someone to write their difficult essays. My 20 year old says that he has all the charisma of a “wet paper towel”. Unfortunately we seem to be stuck with worthless old men. Nancy Pelosi periodically humiliates Trump, Warren deals with Bloomberg. I want someone for Bernie.
Bruuuuce
@Chyron HR: Oh, I don’t know. Some word called hype, no, hypo, oh, yeah. Hypocrisy. Same as it ever was, with the Bros
pat
OMG I want Warren SO BAD and I want to see her on the debate stage with the orange menace…….
I am just sick thinking of the alternatives.
kindness
How can one not love Liz?
schrodingers_cat
@Ruckus: Did you see the bros hounding a female candidate for Congress? It was intimidating and scary.
Chyron HR
@Ronno2018:
And if we instituted your $2 million rule and the stock market subsequently did well enough that Bernie was no longer eligible to run for president, I’m sure you would accept that outcome without complaint.
In case you couldn’t tell, I was being sarcastic.
Betty Cracker
Dragging this up from the morning thread — my daughter sent it to me yesterday:
debbie
If you watch the Colbert video, watch his face. He’s really surprised at her agility and humor. She’s the equal of, if not better than, Obama when it comes to her sense of humor.
Jay
4:11 initial comments in a post about Elizabeth Warren are actually about Warren, 6:11 are Wilmer rants.
Sadly, there is little space for Warren in Democratic Party politics because so much space inside some peoples heads is occupied by Wilmer, rent free.
Avalune
@Betty Cracker: Yes. Good find.
Scuffletuffle
I would paper my entire vehicle with that sticker if it was real…
Butter Emails
Biden owes Warren big-time. If she doesn’t smash Bloomberg like a bug in the debate, Biden probably doesn’t get as strong a finish in Nevada and rebound in South Carolina.
Baud
@Butter Emails: Bloomberg didn’t compete in those states.
Amir Khalid
@Jay:
Where would we all be without the good news, optimism, and creative orthography that you bring to these threads?
Duane
I was surprised to find that there’s such a thing as a “Hot Pockets” heiress. Her name is Michelle Janvas and she was sentenced to five months prison time for paying to get her two daughters into USC. So everytime I eat a Hot Pocket I’m eating the rich?
Suzanne
Ann Coulter made this “endorsement” of Warren:
“Sen. Warren has convinced me that Bernie isn’t that worrisome. He’ll never get anything done. SHE’S the freak who will show up with 17 idiotic plans every day and keep everyone up until it gets done.”
That’s right, Ann.
Betty Cracker
@Duane: She’s lucky she didn’t get 90 seconds in a microwave. ;)
Subsole
Loved how the guy stood there saying it was “Not necessarily” Bernie’s position in 2016…
ALL of my side-eye RN.
Baud
@Suzanne: Has Warren done anything with that? I’m surprised if she hasn’t.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: I say pop that image into the Playing to Win post.
I’d use it for making a pin, or putting it in my car’s back window.
Mike in NC
Would love to see Congress defund Fat Bastard’s stupid wall and spend the money on public health. Doubt that they will, though.
delk
Colbert looks a bit like former presidential candidate Paul Simon.
Suzanne
@Baud: I hope she does. Her team is typically pretty smart about stuff like that.
I got my ballot in the mail yesterday. I was planning to wait until after Super Tuesday to fill it out, because if she drops out, I was thinking that I could vote for my second choice. But Mr. Suzanne and I were talking about it, and neither of us really has a second choice, because all the other candidates that we liked are gone and the ones that remain kind of suck. So I think I’ll drop it in the mail today.
Redshift
@Scuffletuffle: It’s the internet, any graphic can be a real sticker if you want it.
Amir Khalid
@Duane:
Alas, no. When you eat a Hot Pocket, which after all you paid for, you’re feeding the rich.
Kathleen
@Butter Emails: That’s Al Giordano’s contention. The more she destroys Bloomburg the more Biden is helped.
Butter Emails
@Baud:
Warren’s evisceration of Bloomberg was key in reestablishing Biden as the safe old white guy most likely to beat Trump. That bolstered his support even in states where Bloomberg wasn’t/isn’t on the ballot.
Duane
@Betty Cracker: Justice would be nothing but a Hot Pocket for every meal.
cain
Looks like the Bernie Bros have finally started their war against ewarren because she had the temerity to call out a Bernie Bro on Bernie’s double standard on the rules. So now #PrimaryWarren is now trending because the cult of personality cannot abide a challenge against their man.
Whatever you think about Bernie, his rapid supporters are assholes. There was something on twitter about one supporter who went to two homes with a bull horn – even the sander’s campaign repudiated them and the woman’s response were the Bernie campaign are part of the establishment, only Bernie is pure. WTF.
ETA: So the thought is that the Bernie campaign has lost all control of their own supporters and can damage them. I don’t know who these people are..
VeniceRiley
I got 2 pieces of mail from Bloomberg in 2 days. One was even a full letter in an envelope, ffs. I threw them both in the recycling unread. I want Liz, but was previously concerned she would just hand her delegates to Bernie at the convention if in the place to help him defeat Biden. So that bro takedown gives me relief. I’m voting for the female that places highest in SC.
chris
If anyone needs some comic relief Molly Jong-Fast is at CPAC. Once again she went so you don’t have to and she has learned that socialism is bad, very bad.
cain
@VeniceRiley:
She has said she’s going all the way to the primary. Her fundraising efforts have ticked up and I think she’s finally getting the media exposure that she needed. Stuff like the trending #PrimaryWarren on twitter will only help keeping her in the spotlight.
misterpuff
Mailed mine yesterday. Another Californian for the Esteemed SenatorProfessor.
WaterGirl
Anne Laurie, that video with Colbert was so charming.
@Betty Cracker: That is perfect.
She’s electable if you fucking vote for her. That should be a hash tag.
debit
I sent in my mail in ballot for the March 3 primary here in MInnesota, proudly cast my vote for Warren.
Baud
@Suzanne: Congrats to you and Mr. S.
A Ghost To Most
@Jay: It’s not like this came from nowhere. BS’ only talent in Congress is yelling. He has one piece of substantive legislation in 30 years. He doesn’t play well with others. To top it off, now he’s demanding the party he doesn’t belong to change the rules because it is to his advantage, after arguing the opposite in 2016. BS is BS.
surfk9
Just mailed my CA ballot for Senator Professor Warren.
Jager
One of my old pals (we started playing hockey together in the 7th grade) got his ass handed to him by his grandson yesterday. The kid is an MIT Jr in Electrical engineering. He is taking a semester off to work a paid internship for a big engineering firm, he’s got 3 weeks before the internship starts, so he’s going to Europe to hang out. My pal took him to breakfast before he took him to Logan. Unprompted the kid said, “It over for you and everybody else in your age group because you fucked up. You’re always been spouting off for as long as I can remember that all politicians are alike. They’re not. We need a fundamental change in this country we need to get health care straightened out, we need to the cost of education down, we need to, etc, etc. So gramps get the hell out of the way, okay?” The kid backs Warren and will go for Bernie if he has to.
I asked my old friend what he thought, “The kid is one hell of a lot smarter than I am and he’s right.”
ET
I don’t want to derail the discussion (since this is such that on this blog it might) but KITTEN DRAMA QUEEN VIDEO for those in need a political respite.
beef
@Ronno2018:
I will never for the life of me understand why so many voters think that politicians should be comically underpaid. These people have an enormous impact on our country. Their job security is mediocre. And yet, they’re paid less than your average doctor.
mali muso
I’ve been getting glossy mailers from Bloomberg almost daily for the last week here in Virginia. As of today, my vote next Tuesday will be for Warren, but I guess if after SC, the situation looks dire, I may shift to Biden. I really want Warren though. Why do we live in the worst timeline? [on a professional note, working in international education is kinda the worst at the moment]
Betty Cracker
@VeniceRiley: We’ve also received a couple of Bloomberg mailers here in Florida. One was on gun control, and IIRC, the other was more general but focused on his economic superpowers. Interestingly, both were addressed to my husband even though we are both registered Democrats.
chopper
@Duane:
only in america is there an heiress to the hot pockets fortune.
chris
Feel the Bern! Of course it made me laugh, I’ve been thinking this for a while. I’d rather have SPW but whatever it takes.
debit
@ET: That was so worth the click. Thank you!
WaterGirl
@mali muso: Glossy Bloomberg mailers here, too, this week. I threw them in recycling without even seeing what issues they were.
It’s obscene to have that much money and be pissing it away on his ego instead of actually helping beat trump.
Duane
@chopper: Make America Gag Again.
Nicole
@Baud: Here; I’ll try to do a link (via FB) of someone who did something with that Ann Coulter quote:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157967318843427&set=a.10150700820053427&type=3&theater
ronno2018
@beef: Yes, you have a point, my threshold is merely suggested to filter out the totally clueless wealthy, I think school teachers should be paid more than politicians. Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Mujica
LightCastle
@cain:
Honestly, my thought for a while has been that the completely out of control Berners are the ones Russia is goading. Not that all of the evil assholes are fake, obviously not. But the egging on in groups that just escalate that polarization? That’s them. Become trusted voices who are really “fighting the fight” and then slowly edge your followers away from Bernie because “his campaign has become corrupted”/”he sold out to win the brokered convention”/whatever.
Then you have a whole bunch of the loudest/most toxic that turn on Bernie, you have people depressed and thinking third party, and you have a ready made news story about how the whole thing fell apart for the news to flog endlessly over the course of the campaign.
debbie
@Suzanne:
I don’t know about your state, but here in Ohio, there was a deadline to announce withdrawing from the campaign (I believe it was tied to when the ballots are printed). Booker withdrew before the deadline and so will not be on the ballot and any write-ins will not be counted, while Bennet withdrew after the deadline and so his name is on the ballot and any votes for him will be counted and reported. Since I knew Warren would be counted since she hadn’t withdrawn by the deadline, I went ahead and voted early.
WhatsMyNym
@Suzanne:
Same for me, so I dropped my ballot off on Monday.
bemused
@ET:
Pissed off bitty kitty is hilarious.
patrick II
Whether Jack Kennedy, Barack Obama, or Elizabeth Warren — there is just something special about a politician with a sense of humor.
opiejeanne
@delk: “Colbert looks a bit like former presidential candidate Paul Simon.”
He’s dressed like the guy who served us shrimp and grits in Vicksburg.
Hoodie
@mali muso: Polls look pretty grim for Warren in SC. Her problem is that, outside of MA, there is nowhere where it looks like she could win a primary. New Hampshire was a disaster for her. I know people love her, but there is a point where you might want to consider whether your vote for her would be a futile gesture, especially if you have real reservations about it coming down to Sanders v. Bloomberg’s bank account. I could live with either, but I would really prefer Biden to either of them.
Amir Khalid
@WaterGirl:
Also too, a presidential candidate who delegates his campaigning to an expensive, glitzy advertising blitz instead of going out to meet people and persuade them strikes me as precisely the sort of entitled and out-of-touch person who shouldn’t be in the Oval Office.
debbie
@Nicole:
I love that “She opened that fresh mouth of hers”!
trollhattan
@Ruckus:
They don’t just want it now, they want it four years ago. They wuz robbed!
At LGM a couple days ago I had some dude use the “nominated the least-popular Democratic candidate ever, and lost an easy election” line. It’s 2016 all over again in their heads.
Baud
@Hoodie: Is she even going to win Massachusetts? I thought the polls there weren’t great.
debbie
@Hoodie:
A futile gesture, or a vote of principle? After all, this is a primary.
trollhattan
Report from Wild Kingdom:
On my morning commute was nailed by a bird (ID unknown, Jim is working on it) so bad it leaked though the jacket and stained my shirt, too. The jacket rinsed off in the men’s room sink (thanks, Jim!) but the shirt isn’t letting go of its new decoration, so I get to wear my target all day. Jim will have to take it to the cleaners, after he finds that bird.
This ends your report from Wild Kingdom, sponsored by Mutual of Omaha. Find Omaha on a map for a ten-percent discount on life insurance products.
Hoodie
@debbie: Your mileage may vary. Principles can include not wanting to see Donald Trump re-elected.
AliceBlue
@Baud: Last time I looked, it was a toss-up between her and Bernie.
trollhattan
@delk: @opiejeanne:
Fun fact: candidate Paul Simon of bow tie (in)fame was played on SNL by Al Franken.
Betty Cracker
Latest poll out of Florida:
Biden should send Warren a nice fruit basket: Bloomberg had edged him out in the last poll conducted by this same outfit.
sherparick
As much as people love her, the Village Media long ago made up their mind that Elizabeth Warren was not their type. Too liberal, and a woman to boot who was smart, which apparently is the greatest sin since she was smarter than most MSM. By the way, this explains why MSM journalists and pundits have loved Joe Biden for years. Because Joe will certainly never cause them to doubt that they are smarter than Joe. When she started gaining momentum in the fall, Sanders and the “true leftists” hit her from the one side and the Media and the Democratic donor class hit her from the Right and she never caught her balance. By the way, most of these people were in their 20s and 30s when Nixon beat McGovern and Reagan beat Carter. But its not 1972 or 1980 any more. The Berlin Wall fell in 1989, and the Soviet Union stop existing in 1991. Russia is now run by a right-wing White Nationalist who the Republican Party and its leader Trump have an obvious affinity. China is run as plutocratic, capitalistic, authoritarian State built on the bones of a Marxist-Leninist party structure to keep everyone in line. And of course Trump exchanges love letters with the hereditary so-Called communist leader of North Korea. I just don’t think the red baiting about which the Democrats are panicking will actually have much bite about Sanders, although Sanders own ideological delusions and long term distrust and animus toward the Democratic itself.
cain
@LightCastle:
I think it is absolutely true that Russia is involved – and given the volatility of some Bernie supporters, they are perfect for manipulation.
trollhattan
@Suzanne:
In trying to be more clever than she is in real life, Coulter lays out the perfect reason to vote for Liz. Thanks(?) Ann.
It must be hard to be her, 24/7. Exhausting, I suspect. Thanks, Federalist Society, another gem from the bottomless mine.
joel hanes
@kindness:
How can one not love Liz?
M I S O G Y N Y
… and also, many people hated school and resented most of their teachers, and she is so consummately a teacher.
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
Jesus, what is it, October again?
Florida is a profoundly weird place, I’m starting to realize.
gwangung
@cain: Yup. Here:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1232847509225078784.html
janesays
@Ronno2018: a $2 million maximum net worth qualifier would eliminate literally every single candidate still in the race except the two Millennials, Buttigieg and Gabbard.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Nice.
joel hanes
@beef:
why so many voters think that politicians should be comically underpaid
Many people resent anyone who is more effective and successful than themselves (except sportsball players and showbiz celebrities).
zhena gogolia
Great video up top. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a human being as president? Wouldn’t it?
glory b
@Jager: Clearly not African American, our elders don’t play that.
tam1MI
Alas, my state doesn’t go until after Super Tuesday, so I probably won’t get the chance to vote for Warren. For me it will probably be whoever is best positioned to stop Bernie Sanders, so it’s either Biden or Bloomberg.
Hoodie
@trollhattan: Nothing all that weird about it. People who are inclined to vote for centrist Dems are coming to the realization that none of the other centrist candidates is better than Biden and Joe isn’t as bad as they initially feared. The left didn’t desert Bernie for Warren, and the debates showed that Bloomberg is lacking, hastened, of course, by Warren’s fillet job on him. It was a real public service, which you would expect from her. She will continue to be a great senator in the Dem Senate and the Biden administration. She will not be done if she doesn’t win the nomination.
schrodingers_cat
@joel hanes: I don’t hate EW. I voted for her as my senator.But she is not my primary candidate.
I love NP and was 100% behind HRC in 2016. So I have no objections to a woman in the top job. I loved school and most (but not all) of my teachers. So its not misogyny either.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Nope. She is trailing BS.
The Moar You Know
new nym coming, request approval
Orange Is The New White
Still staring at my blank CA ballot. Biden or Warren? Head or heart? Fuck, I just dunno.
Cacti
@Bruuuuce: I distinctly remember someone’s voters shouting 4-years ago that it’s not a coronation.
PaulWartenberg
This is starting to bother me.
A lot of people in my social media circle – on Facebook, on Twitter, here at BJ and with the TNC Horde and even in RL locally – are into Warren, they totally love her as a candidate and all that she’s doing – especially pummeling the hell out of Bloomberg and other rich elites – and yet when the polling all comes out I keep seeing her under 10 percent, state by state, especially here in Florida where GODS HELP US Bloomie is polling second at 25 percent (?!).
I know the possibility I exist in a media bubble is there. I get that. Like-minded people will do that, form an echo chamber of agreement. But what the hell is wrong with everybody else? I’m trying to keep an open mind about most of the Democratic candidates (except for the obvious villains like Bloomberg and Gabbard), even with Bernie whom I still have issues with from 2016, and yet I *still* see and hear Warren talk and present her agenda and she’s *still* the sanest, best choice in the room. What the hell is going on?
glory b
@Hoodie: I heard this morning that BS has given up on SC and is heading to MA, trying to cut Warren off at the knees by beating her decisively in her home state.
Suzanne
@joel hanes: Hillary Clinton once observed that she reminded many men of their ex-wives, and I think Elizabeth Warren reminds them of their high school English teachers.
I am soooo sick of this psychodrama of American men.
Orange Is The New White
@janesays: pretty sure it eliminates Biden as well.
janesays
@beef: I agree with the gist of your comment, but I’m not sure using doctors as a reference point for “comically underpaid” is the best way to make your argument. Primary care physicians average salary in the U.S. is just under $240,000 per year, which puts them very comfortably in the top 2% of all earners in America. No, they’re not making the absurd money that celebrities, athletes, and business executives make, but they’re not really hurting financially, either.
I’d be OK with starting members of Congress at $200K per year in 2020 dollars, and giving them a 4% cost-of-living-adjustment at the start of every new Congress (every two years). Start the 4 House and Senate whips at $250K per year in 2020 dollars with the same biennial 4% COLA, the 4 House and Senate majority and minority leaders at $300K plus the COLA, and the Speaker at $350K plus the COLA.
Bump the presidential salary to $500K in 2020 dollars, with a quadrennial 8% COLA at the start of every new term.
Baud
@PaulWartenberg:
Everyone is in a bubble, but unfortunately our bubble, while righteous, is out of step with most other people’s bubbles.
@glory b:
I hope that’s true. Maybe S.C. Dems can help turn the tide.
Baud
@Suzanne: Yes. Me too.
anarchoRex
@Suzanne: what percentage of women voters are supporting Warren?
janesays
@PaulWartenberg: She was born XX (as opposed to XY). I think that’s the bulk of it. It’s shitty as hell, but it is what is. We’re not nearly as evolved on gender equality as we want to believe we are. If she were Edward Warren with the exact same personality and policy vision, she would very likely be the frontrunner right now.
Fair Economist
Just mailed my CA primary ballot for Warren. I’d been holding off because I had to research some local races. Very upset with the hubby because he had to register “Independent” because there are some Democrats he doesn’t agree with or something goofy like that and so his ballot doesn’t have the CA democratic primary on it. If Sanders wins I’m going to rag him mercilessly.
Likewise my son had to show he wasn’t being manipulated by the Illuminati and registered American Independent – which is apparently a joke party. For President, he can vote for Don Blankenship (of WV miner-killing fame) or Phil Collins, who is so before-my-son’s-time my son doesn’t even know who he is (and British to boot, so not eligible). I am not joking (even though it seems they are); they’re both on the AIP ballot.
Remember, “I” stands for “Irrelevant” on party registration.
joel hanes
@schrodingers_cat:
So my comment does not apply to you.
I have every respect for your viewpoint, and read all your comments for that reason, but you are hardly the typical American voter whose behavior I was trying to explain.
I would probably pay far less attention to the opinions of the typical American voter.
be well
indycat32
@Suzanne: My high school English teacher was usually drunk. I would have loved having Warren for a teacher.
mad citizen
@patrick II: Sense of humor is a great indicator (at least for me) of so many other attributes I like in people.
On the politician pay issue, House Member must be a very enticing job. My R Congresswoman is retiring in the Fightin’ 5th (IN), and there are now 24 candidates running for the seat. There is talk of a blue win, even though the 2018 margin of victory was 70K votes. Yet the national D committee announced they will fight here.
artem1s
SPW will do her job no matter what. I want her to be the nominee but I also know that she will keep working no matter what the outcome of this election is. She’s been a walking billboard for why the GOP is out of touch with the country. She doesn’t need a cult to ‘win’. She needs the country to start believing they deserve better.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Trying to prick a bubble just gets you called names and earn fuck yous be it Balloon Juice or the family whatsapp group.
Jay
Fair Economist
@chris: Nah, Bernie’d never have been PM even in Canada. He’d be NDP, and they’ve never led a government.
janesays
@Betty Cracker: St. Pete Polls is not a very highly-rated pollster (C+), but the polling averages at both FiveThirtyEight and RCP look very similar to that (although it’s worth noting that most of their data is coming from that polling outfit). It will be interesting to see what impact Super Tuesday and Mini Tuesday (March 10th) have on the race there – I imagine we’ll be down to no more than 4 candidates by the time the Sunshine State goes to the polls. By the time next week, I expect 2 or 3 candidates to drop out.
mad citizen
@janesays: House salary is 174K. I’m guessing with all the perks compensation is over, and maybe well over, 200K.
schrodingers_cat
@glory b: When is she going to stop being such a push over for BS.
Some Indian women I know are lionesses when it comes to everyone else but they defer to the men in the family (husband, father, and even sons). This reminds of that, taking a back seat to a man when you are aspiring for the top job, makes you look weak. And not just to me. Look at her poll numbers in fucking Massachusetts.
Orange Is The New White
@Fair Economist: If you’re “decline to state” (non-party affiliated independent) you can vote in the Dem primary in CA. It’s right there on your ballot. All the candidates. So your hubby’s done something else.
Both my wife and I are registered as such because we both have public sector jobs, and regardless of the rules, you can have supervisors, etc, come after your ass if they don’t like your party of choice. Because for some reason, party affiliation, our home address, our salaries and our jobs get posted by the state every year under some “sunshine law” bullshit. CA should get rid of that particular one. It’s just used to go after people for their politics.
If you’re AIP, which is no joke but a bunch of gun-toting psychotic sociopaths and the next stop down for those too extreme for the CA Republican Party (the mind reels at how nuts you gotta be to qualify for that) then yeah, all you can vote for is Rocky, Phil Collins or Blankenship.
KSinMA
@Betty Cracker: Love it!
schrodingers_cat
@joel hanes: Thanks. News out of India is bleak. 50 dead according to some estimates.
Suzanne
@anarchoRex: Not sure of that, but there was an interesting piece last year in FiveThirtyEight about Warren and the “women’s vote”.
Citizen Alan
@joel hanes:
They resent those people too if they’re the wrong ethnicity.
tam1MI
It wouldn’t be the first time Black women saved the Dems from themselves.
chris
@Fair Economist: You’re probably right but the 20th century zinger still holds.
Chyron HR
@schrodingers_cat:
Well, the important thing is that you’re rational in your criticism of Warren for (checks notes) being Bernie’s battered spouse.
Cacti
Maybe someone should send her a copy of that book “He’s Just Not That Into You”.
janesays
@Chyron HR: Bernie Sanders would already not be eligible under the $2 million rule. Every single candidate still in the race not named Buttigieg or Gabbard has a net worth in excess of $2 million (yes, even Klobuchar).
anarchoRex
@Suzanne: thanks for the link!
schrodingers_cat
@Chyron HR: I didn’t say that and you are putting words in my mouth. Whatever her grand strategy for winning votes is not panning out. Winning the Balloon Juice primary is not enough.
Hoodie
@Suzanne: Well, there’s that. I like and respect teachers immensely (I’m married to one), but some people may think that “teacher” – which Warren most definitely is – is not the best archetype for president. I’m agnostic on that myself, my concern about her now is that she just doesn’t seem to be able to win and she may be helping Bernie. I sense that a majority of Warren voters are not that enamored of Bernie and would probably settle on someone like Biden instead. I’m sure misogyny has a significant role in her struggles, but I think she had a bit of misfortune to go negative on Bernie in the wrong way (his “a woman can’t be elected” statement) and then backing off when that failed. If she had been more effective in attacking him (maybe by talking about his withholding of tax and health info, his dubious personnel decisions), it might have enabled her to strip away some of his support and then tack toward the center while Biden was still held down by the other centrist candidates. But I respect that she may not have wanted to do that out of general politeness (an admirable quality) and a certain kinship with Bernie’s stated goal of shaking up the economic/political establishment. Like a lot of progressives, she seems to operate in tension between the revolution and understanding the importance of institutions.
Betty Cracker
@schrodingers_cat: Maybe Mr. Thesaurus could help you find new ways to call Warren “weak” without resorting to sexist analogies?
Scout211
@Fair Economist:
He can request a Democratic primary ballot if he is an Independent Party or No Party Preference in California. I have several friends who have done that.
You have to request it, though. I’m not sure, but it may be too late. He should call your local county elections to ask if he still can request a Democratic primary ballot
FYI, in California, Independent Party is an actual political party.
JPL
Still wondering what Bloomberg’s end game is. He’s campaigning in Texas where Biden is ahead of him. His votes would come from those on the fence about Biden, not Bernie. At times I think republicans put him up to it.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: It’s past noon, is it okay for me to say Fuck Bloomberg?
WaterGirl
@The Moar You Know: What’s your new nym? Does it reference your old nym, so we still know who you are?
I don’t see anything pending, so someone else must have taken care of it.
WaterGirl
@Orange Is The New White: That’s why it’s nice that you have quite a bit of time left before you have to choose the top candidate in CA.
WaterGirl
@JPL:
I can’t speak to WHY he got into the race to begin with, or what bullshit he told himself, but now Bloomberg’s end game is to win.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: Your condescension towards me is not going to change her electoral prospects. But do carry on.
BTW may be you need Mr. Dictionary, I never actually said she was weak, she came out swinging against Bloomberg but she is oddly deferential towards BS in the debates and never calls him out on his outright lies.
Scout211
@Scout211:
To edit my previous post: Only the no party preference voters can request a Democratic primary ballot, not those registered Independent Party.
But you can change your party registration up until 2 weeks prior to the election. So that time is now up, sadly.
Suzanne
@Hoodie:
Agreed. I think she’s relatively few people’s first choice, but has the best chance of being a compromise candidate who can hold together a coalition of progressives and moderates.
What is interesting to me is that, within my bubble…. the vast majority of the people I know are supporting her. My MIL, who is a rural lady in her mid-60s with no degree… to a Latina woman I work with who just turned 30 and has a master’s degree. And a lot in between. I have one BIL who is in his mid-30s and is all in for Bernie, and a couple of others I know who like Buttigieg. But if you were to look at my cohort, you wouldn’t find much support for Biden and negative zero for Bloomberg.
schrodingers_cat
@WaterGirl: Anytime is a good time really.
Roger Moore
@Duane:
That’s an 8th Amendment case waiting to happen.
WaterGirl
@Orange Is The New White: I will miss you as The Moar You Know.
I don’t like it when people change their nyms, it’s like you lose all the history. :: sniff sniff ::
Another Scott
@janesays: Yup.
Our presidents have almost always been wealthy, going back to George Washington himself.
Cheers,
Scott.
Hoodie
@Suzanne: Jim Hightower coined the famous phrase “the only things in the middle of the road are yellow stripes and dead armadillos.” In the context you describe, i.e., within the Democratic Party, Warren is a middle of the road candidate. It’s hard to occupy that space unless you’re super charismatic to the point that everyone can project their hopes and dreams on to you, like Obama.
the Conster
@schrodingers_cat:
This has been my question about her all along. What is her strategy? How does she propose to take on Trump, while Sanders is in her way? What is she doing? Not taking out Sanders while she could at the beginning hasn’t worked out for her at all.
I’m going to vote for Biden in MA, to block Sanders. I’m tired of waiting for Liz to make her move. It’s time for the notBernie vote to consolidate, and I’ve been waiting for the SC primary to see who emerges, which looks like it’s Biden. I’ll take it. The Obama coalition is the Dem coalition we need. Warren polling at single digits in SC isn’t going to get it done.
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat:
You’ve asked this question lots and lots of times, and have been answered lots and lots of times. Maybe review previous threads?
:-/
She’s smart and she’s running her campaign the best way she knows how. She’s won more races, and raised more money, than any of us. She knows what she’s doing.
Maybe she won’t win.
But maybe she understands that this race is not a sprint, that it won’t be over on Saturday, or Tuesday or maybe even the week after that?
Don’t be so determined to demand defeat before the contest is even close to being over.
Eyes on the prizes.
Cheers,
Scott.
trollhattan
@Suzanne:
Ironically, Warren kind of reminds me of a handful of teachers and professors I really loved. The story of the Harvard grad who had tried like hell to get into Warren’s law class was pretty charming. (Somebody linked to it last week.)
Those who know her seem to like her. Bailey’s mom is who she claims to be.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: She is not weak but her current strategy with respect to BS is making her look weak.
Eljai
Full disclosure, I’m voting for Elizabeth Warren in the California primary. I’d like to speak to those of you who live in Super Tuesday states who also LOVE Liz but want to vote strategically. Vote for Liz. Here’s why. South Carolina is not indicative of her best states, so don’t go by that. There are many states where she is in second place or tied for second place. Delegates are assigned proportionally. Liz has the broadest coalition, meaning that she tends to pick up voters as others drop out. Incidentally, I saw a Texas poll where Elizabeth rose 6 points by taking Bloomberg out of the picture. Yes, that’s why she goes after him. She rises when Bloomberg drops. She also rises when other candidates fade. And she has enough true progressive followers to keep Bernie’s numbers down. There’s a good probability she’ll be in a much stronger position post ST if Klobuchar and either Biden or Buttigieg fades. We’re already headed for a brokered convention. If we have 3 candidates, say Warren, Sanders and a moderate at or near 30%, then one candidate can’t argue that they deserve the nom any more than the others. So it goes to a first vote. Candidates can free their delegates to vote for whoever they want – they can not tell them who to vote for. Right now, only about 6% of Liz’s supporters list Bernie as a second choice. Who’s going to do best in this scenario? Someone who attracts a broad coalition or someone who tries to bully every one into giving him the nomination?
chris
What could go wrong?
schrodingers_cat
@Another Scott: Is it her grand plan to lose in her home state? That doesn’t make any sense. I have to vote this coming Tuesday. If Biden wins SC I will vote for him. Because it is time for the ABB vote to coalesce.
ETA: My question was rhetorical. Her strategy is making little sense to me. It is possible as you say that it may work out for her. I have done some back of the envelope calculations and the numbers don’t add up if she doesn’t start getting traction soon. And by soon, I mean by Super Tuesday.
Roger Moore
@joel hanes:
Lots of people resent how much entertainers like athletes and actors are paid. In the case of athletes, at least, that resentment is deliberately, though indirectly, fed by their employers, who hope to use public resentment as a lever in collective bargaining.
trollhattan
@Fair Economist:
Ooh, that’s an own goal by hubby. CA Democratic Party has an open primary and he could have requested their ballot. In fact, at least in Sac County he can still get one at a polling place. Like, today.
Mandalay
Not completely O/T, the odious and disgraced Mark Halperin took time off from his ongoing pity party to say this in a recent interview with Mother Jones:
I can’t really trust anything that Halperin says, but assuming that it’s true he might consider writing a serious piece on why M4A is so important. The media have rightly shunned him, but someone would surely publish that.
Kent
My HS AP English teacher was a gay man with an affection for bow ties and pocket squares. He was from the South somewhere….maybe Atlanta? This was 1982 in Eugene OR. We read some pretty edgy stuff. It was awesome.
trollhattan
@Another Scott:
IIRC President Clinton (the first one) took office with about two nickels and not one decent suit to his name. Jimmy Carter had his peanut farm and Richard Nixon had Checkers and Pat’s Republican cloth coat. IDK about Jerry Ford or Truman, neither strikes me as being well-heeled.
Now, money and power travel together so handsomely I wonder if a working stiff will ever have a shot at the office. Or any office.
trollhattan
@Mandalay:
Bulllll pucky he’s applied at Target. Have you seen who Target hires?
the Conster
@Mandalay:
Too bad for his son, but he should have thought about this while he was rubbing his dick on women at work, and called Obama a dick on TV to help the GOP who want him and his son to be uninsured.
Baud
@tam1MI:
Nor the last, probably.
Scout211
@trollhattan:
Not exactly “open.” They are open to the “no party preference voters” if you request a ballot, but not to the voters registered as Independent Party or any other party.
Orange Is The New White
@WaterGirl: Dealt with! Very handily. Can’t complain about the service here.
Marcopolo
Been waiting for a new thread, alas, but I’m pretty sure putting up this off topic post will bring it about ;)
OT and probably just a blue state deep state plot to make the president look bad, but:
Roger Moore
@JPL:
I suspect, without much evidence, that he initially got into the race with the goal of kneecapping Bernie and Warren, but then let his ego get the better of him when he started polling well.
Baud
The problem with voting your heart in the primary like this one is the 15% rule. What do folks think about that? Should it be added to the list of primary reforms we need?
Orange Is The New White
@WaterGirl: Temporary. I’ve had that nym since I came here back when DKos imploded back in 2007-8, I’m not letting it go.
schrodingers_cat
@the Conster: People here think that I hate EW, I don’t. I would have been happy if she had emerged as the left alternative instead of BS because I do like some of her policies.
Her strategy to win the nominating contest has been a head scratcher.
Orange Is The New White
@schrodingers_cat: They’re co-workers, and odds are they’re going to have to go back to being co-workers after the primaries. I get the approach. We need Sanders in the Senate, very badly. If he decided to stop working with the Dems we’re in far more of a deep shithole than we already were.
And when he leaves (or is carried out, more likely) his replacement will be a Republican. So I suspect that Warren is thinking strategically, as she does.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Winner take all in a crowded field is also unfair.
Kent
I’m starting to think that our most likely path forward is going to be some sort of unity ticket coming out of a brokered convention. The fact that the leading men are all so geriatric and possibly unable to finish one term let alone 2 terms actually makes that more likely to succeed than if we were talking about the VP pick for a young Obama or Bill Clinton.
Two possible scenarios:
Sanders/Klobuchar which would be an obvious play for the upper midwest while trying to simply hold court everywhere else.
Biden/Warren which would be an attempt to bring the non-KoolAid Sanders supporters over to the ticket. I’m not sure what state Warren would bring in so this would be more of an attempt to unify the party with Biden hopefully winning back the upper midwest and maybe Florida.
In both instances they would have to sell it as more of a co-Presidency or 1A, 1B sort of thing. With the right marketing it might be doable.
In both instances, the VP pick will be the most consequential VP pick in at least 100 years, or perhaps ever.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Agree. I prefer this to that. But I’m hoping smart people can come up with an even better way.
schrodingers_cat
@Orange Is The New White: Why is it a given that Vt would elect a Republican? Other than Susan Collins I don’t think New England has any R senators.
Marcopolo
@trollhattan: Yeah, but if you are doing the hiring & this guy applies just think of all the negatives he’s freighting: he’s the kind of hire that will jump ship instantly upon finding anything better (so why waste training on him), he’s over educated so he’ll probably fuck up the work environment, and he’s old so more likely to get hurt or not be able physically to do as much.
Honestly, maybe he is so loathsome that he doesn’t have any friends to call on but you’d think he’d have a connection that could get him out of the public eye editing work or something like that.
Baud
@Kent:
Problem is those are all white tickets. Left/center unity isn’t the only unity we need.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: All primaries, no caucuses. And the states that go first should be by rotation. Why NH and Iowa all the time?
Kent
It is SUPPOSED to help weed out the minor candidates. But I guess if there are just too many candidates then they are all minor candidates and we reach the problem we have now. I expect doing away with the 15% would just make things worse as second tier candidates would have more incentive to hang in there longer if they were picking up a few delegates here and there rather than rolling goose-eggs.
the Conster
@schrodingers_cat:
Betty Cracker always weighs in to tell me to get over my EW criticism. I like her as my Senator but her political instincts are terrible. Everything she does seems to backfire on her, like that idiotic DNA test and the wine cave nonsense. She took on Bloomberg, but he’s not her problem, he’s Joe’s problem. Sanders is her problem and she runs interference for the old fraud. WTF is she doing?
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
GOP governor would appoint. See problem as Mass.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
I think everyone here agrees with that. Doesn’t address the 15% problem though.
Baud
@Kent:
Maybe a lower number? Or eliminate statewide winners and have the 15% be based on precinct or district?
Kent
Val Demings would be my pick for a non-white VP. She is seriously badass and might make a good counterpart for Sanders and should help with Florida. She has a very compelling life story. She would probably be a good pick for Biden as well.
schrodingers_cat
@the Conster: I agree with every word you said.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I would make the threshold higher 25% that would weed out the weak candidates.
ETA: Someone should run MonteCarlo simulations with various scenarios and find a robust solution.
Kent
I think she rightly understands that her path to the nomination is to consolidate the anti-Sanders vote and scoop up the Buttigieg and Klobuchar supporters as she is unlikely to peel off many die hard Sandernistas when they already have the real thing.
debbie
@Another Scott:
Seconded. Thank you.
trollhattan
@Scout211:
I was conflating “independent” with “no party preference” but perhaps hubby in question registered as American Independent Party, which is another kettle of fish entirely.
NPP registrations number between Dem and Rep at present.
the Conster
@schrodingers_cat:
Yup. We’re of the same mind about EW. No question she’s smart, just not politically. By the way, if she were to run against Charlie Baker for anything, she’d lose.
Kent
Unfortunately there isn’t a lot that the DNC can do alone to affect primary timing because most primaries are state-administered and are both Dem and GOP on the same day. So any major restructuring of the primary calendar would require coordinating with the GOP.
The Democratic Party isn’t in a position to run state-wide primaries, especially in big states. That isn’t remotely feasible.
the Conster
@Kent:
That’s Biden though, not her. She has no support in the AA community, and no claim to the center lane now. She let M4All, “I’m with Bernie” get wrapped around her axle. Like I said, she tied herself to Sanders and he’s the electoral kiss of death.
glory b
@WaterGirl: Yep, one of the panelists on Morning Joe said Bloomberg’s campaign managers think Biden winning in SC will be a dead cat bounce, and he’ll lose everywhere else.
I disagree, but they think Bloomberg can win.
Baud
@Kent:
I agree with that. I don’t think she should go after Sanders to peel off the Sanders vote. The question is whether going harder after Sanders would have helped her consolidate the anti-Sanders vote.
debbie
@Marcopolo:
What are the odds Trump will blame California for this because it’s a disgrace and is too nasty? //
schrodingers_cat
@glory b: How much did Bloomberg pay this person? Because I am really not seeing Bloomberg winning. He has the charisma of potato that has sprouted eyes.
Suzanne
@Kent: What about Sanders/Abrams?
Need more younger people in government.
Kent
Black women ARE the Democratic Party. More than anyone else by far. Certainly not white men, for God’s sake.
Roger Moore
@Baud:
That fails to address the problem the 15% threshold was intended to solve. The problem is we’d really like to avoid a contested convention, and splitting the votes more ways makes one more likely. I think the Republican solution of having early contests be proportional and later ones be winner-take-all is a reasonable approach to this. But fundamentally the only way of minimizing the chances of going into the convention with no clear-cut winner is to force people out of the race early.
Kraux Pas
I’ve been for Warren from the beginning with Biden near the bottom of my list, borderline unacceptable.
Bloomberg’s surge then possible falter have made me more willing to accept Biden as nominee so…good job Bloomberg?
the Conster
@Baud:
She would have gotten my vote, but she said “I’m with Bernie” instead. I was gobsmacked. What about his gun votes? What about his campaign’s all white male staff and sexual harassment settlement? What about his appearance in the Mueller Report as being helped by the Russians? If she can’t make those arguments, what is she running for? He and his cult aren’t about effectiveness and policies, it’s about mediocre white dude resentment and bending the knee to the old fraud. Why can’t she see that?
Groucho48
@janesays:
I’d say tie their COLA to the SS/Fed retiree COLA.
Fair Economist
@Orange Is The New White:
You can request one, but it’s not automatic. His ballot says “you have not received a primary ballot because you are registered independent. You may request a Democratic ballot by calling xxx-xxx-xxxx”
jl
Glad Warren is being aggressive about how horrible the Trump administration is on the coronavirus outbreak. Good God, I couldn’t believe that they are not going to make a vaccine as widespread as possible. Another reason we need to get Trump out of the WH. Next year when it becomes available, we need a Democrat who will follow sane policy, no matter who.
Edit: for older people who have gone down the rabbit hole of hating on a specific candidate, might consider that your life might depend on getting any Democrat into the WH next year.
I’m not a physician, or an epidemiologist, but I’ve done wok on the economics of infectious disease control. But take what I say with a grain of salt needed whenever an economist says something.
it is always (always!) economically efficient, and leads to lowest cost in terms of health effects, to totally whomp on the disease when the initial numbers of infected are small. So everyone should be whomping on this, to keep it from becoming a serious very costly pandemic. And if public health authorities just need the authority to whomp on it with aggressive tracking, quarantines, of individual cases, then the effects can be kept small even if circulating in population, if you get a big whomp at the outset. The basic reproductive rate can be greatly modified with with those control measures. Cheap tests to aid early diagnosis can probably do a lot.
But, there will be trade offs. A controlled epidemic that stays small, or limited to small outbreaks, will take longer to play out. So longer period of stress and worry, and little panic outbreaks in the population.
I hope the Trumpsters will stay out of control measures that would be most effective now. A lot of it will be done by state and local health departments, and the Trumpsters won’t have any idea what they and CDC are talking about.
Anyway, good on Warren.
Edit: found a good paper forecasting effect of different control policies published a month ago, Seems to me they put out some good predictions. I’ll comment with a link when I have time later
Kent
Doesn’t strike me as much of a unity ticket. I don’t really know Abrams that well being up here in the PNW. But she doesn’t strike me as the kind of VP pick that would satisfy the millions of Dems and Independents who are skeptical of Sanders. That seems like more of a doubling-down sort of ticket.
Eljai
@Betty Cracker: Bloomberg got some traction from people who were losing confidence in Biden and college-educated voters who thought Bloomberg was somehow more electable. His national polls have begun to reverse themselves since Warren’s been pounding him. Bloomberg in the race hurts Biden and helps Bernie. But it also helps Liz’s numbers when Bloomberg sinks.
Suzanne
@schrodingers_cat: I’d like all the primaries on the same day. This handshakes-at-the-state-fair nonsense is ridiculous. I don’t like the “narrative” thing that happens state by state, either. It changes voting behavior for people who live in states that go later and doesn’t really serve the purpose of finding out who the voters genuinely want.
schrodingers_cat
@Kent: Biden-Harris
Hoodie
@glory b: Bloomberg could beat Trump, but now I don’t see him winning the Dem nomination. People will go Sanders before they’ll go for him. Bloomberg blew his chance when he wouldn’t mea culpa for stop and frisk and other transgressions. He didn’t even have to mean it, but he’s in such a billionaire bubble that he just couldn’t humble himself that way. He does seem to be committed to getting rid of Trump, however, so it might be a good idea to not unnecessarily antagonize him.
trollhattan
@Fair Economist:
Sac County sends a postcard informing of the opportunity to get the Dem ballot, more than a month before the election. Mail it back to receive one, or get one on request at polling sites.
I don’t think we’re necessarily like other counties, so YMMV.
debbie
@Kent:
I think it’s more that Abrams’ presence would tick off the BS supporters, mightily and noisily.
Kraux Pas
How are her gun votes? What does her staff look like? Has she ever had to deal with a sexual harassment issue? How does she plan to deal with Russian election interference?
Is she not a distinct entity from Bernie?
glory b
@Kent: Again, I’ll mention Rachel Bitecofer, who said the next election will be won by turning out people of color and she recommends that Stacey Abrams be the VP pick, no matter who the Presidential candidate is.
I haven’t read it yet, but she also cites new research that indicates there are risks now for nthe Dems if the winner is BS or another candidate.
If BS wins, he would have to increase the youth turnout by 30%, significantly more than Obama, and the researchers don’t see that happening.
If he’s not the nominee, overcoming his supporters who will sit out is an easier lift.
Cheryl Rofer
@jl:
There is no vaccine for this coronavirus. There’s work being done to develop one, but there won’t be one available for at least a year.
What they should be doing is making test kits available, free of charge, to hospitals. This once was a standard public health measure.
PJ
@joel hanes: Many people also resent the athletes and entertainers they admire and whose work they spend so much time enjoying, and are angry that they are compensated more than they are (or that they get any compensation at all) for doing something which is “fun”, and which they are sure they could probably do just as well if they put their minds to it.
John Revolta
@Duane: One of the young women that hung around with the NY theater crowd in the 1920s was a ball-bearing heiress. Much ribaldry ensued
glory b
@schrodingers_cat: Ha! Lots, probably, it’s not like he can’t afford it.
PJ
@Orange Is The New White: Vote for whom you think will be the better President. If that person isn’t the nominee, you can vote for whomever isn’t Trump in the general.
jl
@Cheryl Rofer: Yes, I said that later in my comment.
cain
@WaterGirl:
DougJ is his new nym.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
I just saw this — haven’t had time to read it
Mandalay
@the Conster:
Exactly. For those who are undecided between Warren and Sanders, she really needs to spell out why she is the better choice. (Maybe she has done that, but I missed it?)
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: It leaves out the most important variable in the equation, caste. I have read it. Filkins is also taking Modi’s life story at face value. The tea seller, humble origins etc.
To understand the Hindu right you have to go back to the history of India to the Gupta Empire when Buddhism lost out to Brahminical hegemony and Hindu/Vedic rituals to really understand why 3% Brahmins dominate every field.
According to some polls BJP’s support among this highly influential group is 93%.
Elizabelle
@glory b:
I could live with that. In fact, I could be motivated to canvass and network and find replacements for the Bern or Bust types.
Or talk with his younger supporters. Explain about my own John Anderson vote, and Teddy Kennedy primarying JE Carter from the left. How well that worked out for us all.
The youngs might be a whole lot more reachable than peeps like that horrible woman from Cali who was out with a bullhorn harrassing the Nevada Democratic party officials. Stick to the reachable.
We all could find more voters. We have to. (And some of them probably got shamed pretty hard in 2016 for voting Jill Stein or Gary Johnson, even if they won’t admit it to you.)
Captain C
It’s not so much red baiting, as clips of Sanders shouting how much America sucks (or standing by smiling while other people say as much) that are worrisome. Even if these clips are cut to the point that they’re completely out of context, they’ll still be damaging (cf. Swift Boats, Butter Emails, &c.).
Hoodie
@schrodingers_cat: Maybe, but possibly a Latinx VP? Ashamed to admit I’m not up on who would be a possible choice other than Castro, and he seemed a little lightweight. Governor of NM?
Kent
Do you think a Biden/Harris ticket will better engage the Sanders lefty wing of the party than a Biden/Warren ticket? I don’t know. On paper I like a Biden/Harris ticket better because Harris was my original first choice. But is she who you pick coming out of a brokered convention when you want to pick up the Sanders wing of the party and at least peel off enough Sanders delegates to win the nomination?
I’m mainly talking about what kind of a unity ticket do you put together if say both Sanders and Biden go into the convention with about 40% of the delegates. Warren seems like a more likely second choice for many Sanders folks.
Kraux Pas
Didn’t hurt Trump. Just sayin’
VFX Lurker
I, too, was torn between the two candidates. George Skelton of the Los Angeles Times advised undecided CA voters to wait until after South Carolina before casting their ballots.
Freaked out about a Bernie Sanders nomination? Keep your eyes on South Carolina
I mailed my ballot in earlier this week. I voted with my head. I then walked with a younger co-worker to a vote center at lunch to help her vote with her heart (she used the Los Angeles County Democratic Party voter guide for all other races downticket). I hope both head and heart each get 15% or more of the vote here in California.
trollhattan
@Captain C:
Recalling how news networks primarily showed quick cuts of Hillary speeches invariably with her speaking at the top of her lungs, Wilmer presents a much broader target for the editing suite to slice and dice.
It will happen and it will seem grim, especially after three continuous months leading to the election.
schrodingers_cat
@VFX Lurker: I am waiting for South Carolina although we can early vote in MA this year.
opiejeanne
@Cheryl Rofer: I just met with my nutritionist (diabetes, my numbers are excellent now!). She downplayed the death percentage based on what we know vs. what we don’t know. She says it’s only really .5%. I mentioned that that’s a lot of people if you just look at America’s population, and she said, “Yes, a million people will die.” Very matter-of-fact. Then she said it will be the homeless because they are the most vulnerable. She’s wrong about the math, it’s nearly 2 million people dying at that rate.
She’s Russian and her bedside manner is bit abrupt. She’s flying to Moscow tomorrow to visit her mother. She told me to get masks for our trip to Europe to wear on the plane, and to get sanitizing wipes to wipe down everything we can where we’re sitting.
This appointment was in the nearby hospital and there are mask and hand sanitizer stations everywhere, and people do use the masks but today I didn’t see anyone wearing a mask. Same thing yesterday at the clinic. I think this is the first time I’ve been and not seen anyone wearing a mask, but both places were pretty empty. We must all think we’re healthy here, just outside Seattle.
trollhattan
@VFX Lurker:
Am guessing the bump from June to March will harvest a big increase in CA turnout versus ’16 but countering that, Republicans don’t have much incentive this go. We shall see soon enough.
the Conster
@Kraux Pas:
I would like to have heard her make those distinctions from him, for herself.
She would have my vote if she’d gone after him.
janesays
@Orange Is The New White: Yes, it does. It eliminates all of them, except for Pete Buttigieg and Tulsi Gabbard. Meaning, every other candidate who is still in the race – Biden, Bloomberg, Klobuchar, Sanders, Steyer, and Warren each have a net worth that exceeds $2 million. For most of them it is tied up in their homes, but a net worth is a net worth.
schrodingers_cat
@the Conster: Same here. Many of my friends who are active Ds in my town are either voting for Sanders or Biden. Far from being the unity candidate she has fallen between two stools.
VFX Lurker
California has same-day voter registration. If he’s in Los Angeles County, he should go to his nearest vote center, re-register to vote and cast his ballot right there. Same goes for your AIP-registered son.
PJ
As for Biden/Harris, this photo is from today:
https://twitter.com/tomwatson/status/1233101488815251467
Kent
The next election will be won by winning WI, MI, PA, and maybe FL, AZ, NH, NC, and OH.
Which of those states does Abrams help with more than say Klobuchar? Maybe FL and NC? Sanders already has the youth vote. How does she help with older whiter states? I’m not arguing with your point, just interested in the math.
Duane
@Marcopolo: When Halperin says he applied at Target he likely means a VP position.
oldgold
@Mandalay:
Warren’s campaign from the get-go to the present has been tactically challenged.
opiejeanne
@schrodingers_cat: Biden-Harris. In a heartbeat.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kent:
She campaigned in Georgia like a Georgia Democrat. lots of talk about bipartisanship and working across the aisle. That drives a lot of people here crazy, never mind Rose Twitter. And I doubt she’d want to embrace the full-on Bernie agenda on a highly risky ticket if she’s got an eye on a political future in Georgia
Eljai
@Mandalay: She’s better than Sanders because she has the chops to actually implement progressive ideas. She brought this up in the last debate where she said progressive ideas are popular and we have one chance to get it right and she’s the one who gets it done. That was an attack on Sander’s character and inability to achieve things we want. I’ve seen the others attack Sanders head on, but the frontal attacks have not been working.
Kraux Pas
She made those distinctions. Those votes and positions exist, have been stated and recorded. This sounds an awful lot like letting the media circus determine your vote.
And I’m glad she chose to go hard after Bloomberg. He’s the goddamn devil as far as I’m concerned and needed to be taken out. Even if she doesn’t win, she did a public service. Your mileage on this clearly varies.
Citizen Alan
@janesays:
That is a ridiculous metric. All of those people have been making six figures a year for at least two decades. Anyone with that sort of income who can’t accumulate at least $2 million in that amount of time is a spendthrift who has no business running the country’s finances. Hell, if I hadn’t stupidly walked away from a government job in 2006 because I thought I could make more in the private sector (right before the economy crashed), I’d probably have $2 million in assets to day. Unmarried, no kids, and making $90-100k a year? I’d have bought a half-dozen rental properties by now plus invested everything I inherited from my dad instead of spending it to ward of bankruptcy.
hueyplong
Daughter and I voted early today in NC.
Two votes for E Warren.
glory b
@Kent: I’d have to refer you to her on twitter. She was almost the only one who correctly predicted the number of congressional pickups in 2018. But as I also mentioned, there isn’t anything to indicate that Bernie would get the turnout he’d need (which would be more than Obama), and he would discourage some of the moderate voters. Again, this isn’t my math, it’s hers.
germy
debbie
@opiejeanne:
The JAMA paper I forgot to link to in the previous thread (here) says the fatality rate for critical cases with preexisting conditions is 49%.
janesays
@Kent: If Sanders and Biden enter the convention roughly tied in delegates (say within 3% of each other), I think you can safely broker it to make Biden the nominee. If any candidate goes in with a larger lead than that, nominating somebody other than the pledged delegate leader is practically begging to lose the election, especially if the person with the most pledged delegates is Bernie Sanders (with the caveat that some unforeseen monumental scandal with the frontrunner emerging just before the convention obviously changes the calculus).
Think about it – a lot of people hold Sanders highly responsible for Clinton’s loss because some of his supporters refused to vote for Clinton. We don’t know exactly how many of them did that, but we know it was more than zero, and in the three states that ultimately gave Trump the election, it may have been enough to change the outcome. In any event, if you think the defection of Sanders primary voters in 2016 to either Trump or third party candidates was significant enough to cost Clinton the election, what do you think is going to happen if their guy finishes the primaries having won more states, more popular votes, and more pledged delegates than any other candidate but doesn’t get the nomination? If you thought they behaved irrationally when their candidate clearly lost, how exactly do you think they’ll behave if their candidate does better than every other candidate but still doesn’t win?
If we want to beat Sanders and still have a chance to actually win in November, we have to beat him before the convention, not at the convention. A statistical tie in pledged delegates between the two leading candidates is the only possible exception, but even that is a highly precarious non-ideal situation. It would be best if he just finished the primaries unambiguously behind someone else.
John Revolta
@PJ: Post downthread there says the photo is from Dec 2018.
schrodingers_cat
@janesays: 25% of BS voters did not vote for HRC.
Kraux Pas
@schrodingers_cat: That’s a much larger number than others I’ve seen and I’m curious where it came from.
Immanentize
@the Conster: If there is ONE state in the whole country where you should vote for Warren if you really want to block Sanders, it is Massachusetts. Mass is pretty much a two person race and right now, it is neck and neck Sanders versus Warren. Currently the delegate projection in Mass is 46 Sanders, 45 Warren. Biden is not likely to get any.
Voting for anyone but Sanders or Warren is a vote wasted in Massachusetts. So if your goal is to slow down Sanders, even if you want Biden to win, the strategic move is to vote for Sanders.
Elizabelle
@Immanentize:
Are you editing this sentence even as we speak??
John Revolta
@Citizen Alan: Yeah, I’m no fan of rich people running for office but $2 million is way too low for this day & age. Also, such a provision would probably be unconstitutional (esp. with the SC we have now).
Kent
That would have been too much actual work. He was volunteering to write a weekly “conventional wisdom” political blog for the target.com web site for the discount price of about $175k/year. How can they turn him down? He has a Hahvarhd BA
White men with Ivy League degrees who can’t keep their pants zipped can’t actually be expected to do real work now can they?
Kraux Pas
@Elizabelle: Clearly the only way to stop Sanders is to give him the nomination.
schrodingers_cat
@Kraux Pas: Here is the poll that Dennis Green who used to blog here cites
Elizabelle
@Kraux Pas: And money too!
PJ
@John Revolta: Whoops, I was misinformed.
ETA: Someday I will learn not to believe everything I read on the internet.
randy khan
@Baud:
I like the 15% rule. Without it, you’d have a hard time having any candidate get to a majority in a multi-candidate contested race, and marginal players would have more incentive to hang on to see if they could help broker the result. That would be bad.
janesays
@mad citizen: I’m aware. Contrary to popular belief, senators don’t make more than representatives – they’re both paid the same $174K (members in various leadership positions make more). The $200K starting point I proposed would be just for salary – they would still keep all of their other perks. So basically, we begin by giving them a $26K raise for the next term. After that, we ensure that their pay keeps up with cost-of-living expenses by giving it a COLA bump every two years.
Another Scott
@trollhattan:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1979/06/01/financial-data-show-president-is-a-millionaire/7c44c7c4-aebf-4efa-8aa8-bb602eb9df4a/
;-)
Yeah, we’ve had people with more normal net-worth be president too. Agreed that we’re in a very bad state if only bazillionaires can be elected to office.
Cheers,
Scott.
Eljai
@janesays: The problem is that the ship has already sailed. We award delegates proportionally, so it’s highly unlikely that Biden will be able to get to 50 before the convention. I share your fear about a contest that comes down to Biden and Bernie. But the danger of trying to coalesce behind Biden now is that we don’t know if his projected SC win will continue. In a 3 way race at the convention, the ABB vote will be higher. Despite early wins, voter preference is still about 30% Bernie and 60% anybody else.
Also, here’s an interesting thread by journalist G. Elliott Morris showing Elizabeth Warren as the candidate with the biggest crossover appeal.
joel hanes
@schrodingers_cat:
News out of India is bleak
Yes. You have my sympathies, especially with the strain it’s put on your personal relationships.
Elizabelle
@Eljai: ABB is not gonna work as an acronym.
Anybody but Bernie? Biden? Bloomberg? Buttigieg?
Eljai
@Elizabelle: Thank you, I meant Bernie. One should never assume everyone else assumes the same thing! ABBS?
Kraux Pas
@schrodingers_cat: Fair enough, though I wonder why I should give this one poll more credence than others.
FWIW, most of the Bernie supporters I knew didn’t vote in either the primary or general as they were unregistered or were completely unengaged until after it was all over and asked things like “whatever happened to Bernie? I liked him.”
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat: Yes, if she doesn’t win she won’t win.
:-/
I haven’t made a spreadsheet of all the various cutoffs and who gets how many delegates as a function of various cutoffs and all the rest. Life is too short for me to worry about all that stuff.
In the primary on 3/3, I’m going to vote for the person who comes closest to what I want in a President.
On November 3, I’m going to vote for the Democrats.
Others can vote for who they want. What happens in South Carolina isn’t going to change my opinion.
My one vote isn’t going to sway the election, and it’s not going to make the candidates campaign differently, and it’s not going to Stop Bernie or Stop Mikey. That’s not what my vote is for. My vote is to express my preference.
Don’t make it so complicated. ;-) It’s not worth the stress.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kent
@janesays: I don’t disagree with what you write. That’s why I was talking more about unity tickets. If Sanders rolls in with say 45% they may not be able to take the nomination from him, but the superdelegates and delegates committed to Biden and other candidates may be able to determine the VP slot as the quid pro quo for putting Sanders over the top.
A unity ticket with a younger more centrist VP may be the price that Sanders has to pay to pull out the nomination if he comes into the convention short of 50%. And honestly, no matter who the VP pick is, the Sanders faithful aren’t going to abandon him if he is on the ticket. They might grumble in Twitter but who the fuck cares. They will still vote for him in the end.
Jinchi
We really need to stop pinning our hopes on this. You’re assuming that Bernie can only get the voters who are already coming out for him and that anybody else will get all the remainder. There is simply no reason to believe that is the case and quite a bit of reason to believe it isn’t.
janesays
I would say that’s entirely dependent on why they like her. If the root of their support is a deep belief in her specific policy vision, it’s hard to fathom why they would go to Biden rather than Sanders, given that she and Sanders are far more aligned on policy matters than she and Biden are. If it’s something about her personality, then it’s much easier seeing them to defect to Biden. I’m not sure BJ is the best place to gauge who the #1 backup preference is for Warren supporters.
A Quinnipiac poll from last month indicated Warren supporters would defect to Sanders more than to any other individual candidate, though it’s not clear if that’s a majority or just a plurality, and what impact other candidates also dropping out would have. I also obviously doesn’t factor in the rancor that seems to have increased between them in the past month.
Kent
Yes. Works for me.
Cheryl Rofer
@opiejeanne: The masks are most useful to keep people who are already sick from spreading their germs around by their wearing them. They are in shortage, so it makes sense in a hospital to only use them where they are needed most.
Kraux Pas
But what the candidates themselves do in response to SC may matter. If Warren actually drops out before super Tuesday, I plan to write in “fuck these old white dudes.” I expect this notion to surge any day now.
Eljai
@Jinchi: There actually is a reason to think that Bernie is not expanding his base if you look at the data. Despite early wins in small states, he has actually lost supporters who went to other candidates. He has not increased the youth turnout, Hispanic support for him in Nevada stayed the same as it was in 2016, and he lost white voters. Nevada is one of his best states. There is no evidence that he will expand his base in states that are less friendly to his candidacy.
joel hanes
@the Conster:
What about his gun votes? What about his campaign’s all white male staff and sexual harassment settlement? What about his appearance in the Mueller Report as being helped by the Russians?
What about trying to keep his fractious voters in the big tent? None of those things seem to deter them, and it would be easier to win various elections if they would vote Democratic.
joel hanes
@jl:
I couldn’t believe that they are not going to make a vaccine as widespread as possible.
But this is absolutely in character. Trump and his appointees:
1. view a pandemic as captive market in which they can charge all the market will bear
2. truly believe that the leopard will never eat *their* faces
trollhattan
@Kraux Pas:
Super Tuesday is five days away. I can’t see anybody, much less Warren dropping out.
Okay, how about Steyer, Steyer can drop out. Well past due.
Amir Khalid
@Another Scott:
I think I remember reading that Harry Truman was the first ex-POTUS to receive a pension after Congress found out he was almost broke. Is that true?
janesays
The problem is that voter preference at this moment for Biden is 13%, and 87% for anybody else.
I get the argument that there are more people who don’t want Bernie than there are people who do want him, but as of this moment, that is true for literally every single candidate in the race. If your argument is “We can’t pick Bernie because 70% of the country didn’t vote for him,” the response from his people is going to be, “So you’re going to give the nomination to Candidate X, even though 77% of the country didn’t vote for him? Yeah, that makes total sense.”
You better believe that Trump-supporting SuperPACs are going to spend every day between the end of the convention and the election blasting ads telling Sanders’ supporters that the Democratic establishment gave the nomination to a candidate who got less votes and less pledged delegates than him.
I get that we’re very likely not going to have a frontrunner with a clear majority heading into the convention. But I think if we have a frontrunner who has a pretty clear plurality, it would be a disaster to not make that person the nominee, whether it’s Biden or Sanders or anybody else. It’s not about fairness – the rules make it clear that the superdelegates have the power to decide this thing if it goes to a second ballot, and they don’t have to pick the frontrunner from the first ballot. It’s about the perception of fairness – and a scenario in which a candidate who got beaten in the primaries by another candidate in the primaries in terms of contests won, votes won, and pledged delegates won being chosen as the nominee is not going to seem very fair to an enormous number of people. It’s going to literally give credence to the whining from Sanders’ folks about the Democratic establishment having it in for him.
Another Scott
@John Revolta: Yup.
Cheers,
Scott.
joel hanes
@glory b:
If BS wins, he would have to increase the youth turnout by 30%
Youth are not all progressive.
If BS is the nominee, he would have to increase the progressive youth vote by 30%, without increasing the conservative youth vote.
I don’t think that’s going to happen, but it’s the fundamental claim of Our Revolution that it’s a shoo-in.
schrodingers_cat
Guys, Bros are trending primary Warren on Twitter right now. That’s how much they love her for her “non-agression pact” with their God.
Another Scott
@Kraux Pas:
Yeah, and if the Sun goes nova on Sunday then she won’t win either.
:-/
As long as she has a war chest, she will keep campaigning. She’s raised $20+M this month. She’s not dropping out anytime soon.
Sheesh.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@Amir Khalid: Sounds reasonable.
Things were different back then (Remember, Truman became president because FDR put him on the ticket, not because he was running for the job himself. Similarly with Ford.).
Cheers,
Scott.
janesays
@schrodingers_cat: Well, there you go.
If 25% of Sanders supporters didn’t vote for Clinton in 2016 when she clearly won the nomination by every available metric, what percentage of Sanders supporters do you think won’t vote for the nominee if that winds up being somebody who loses to Sanders in pledged delegates, contests won, and total popular vote, and only gets the nomination because superdelegates effectively overrule the pledged delegates? To any reasonable person, they had no real argument to say their candidate got screwed in 2016. If he finishes ahead of everyone else in the primaries this time and doesn’t get nominated, a lot of people will again be saying he got screwed, only this time it will actually resonate with a lot of people.
Jinchi
And it probably wouldn’t matter. Lots of votes are already cast and the ballots are already printed. California’s Democratic ballot still has over twenty names on it. If you want to vote Booker or Harris, you still can.
Anybody who has hopes of winning delegates will stay in, because delegates equal leverage. When people start imagining a split-convention, those delegates could make someone a kingmaker. I’m pretty sure that’s a big reason Steyer and Bloomberg are in it.
Chris Johnson
@schrodingers_cat: We don’t have to listen to what Russian trolls say. I’ve already mentioned about how ‘dirtbag left’ Reddit has been desperately trying to attack Warren this whole time. ‘Snake’ emojis are also Russian troll driven. They’re embedded into the Sanders campaign, were in 2016 too, but they are not American voters and they were not and are not dictating his platform, which Warren largely shares.
janesays
@Citizen Alan: I agree completely that it’s a ridiculous metric.
I wasn’t at all supporting the idea – somebody upthread argued that anybody with a net worth over $2 million should be disqualified from running for the presidency, and I pointed out that if that metric were in place right now, it would eliminate literally every candidate who is still in the race that isn’t a Millennial.
Jinchi
Now do Clinton-Obama 2008.
Bernie’s voters were just as loyal to the Democratic nominee as hers were.
Kraux Pas
@Another Scott: Hey, I have no horse in a Bernie/Biden race and if I’m going to lash out about the state of our politics, the primary seems the right place to do it.
Besides, it seems likely it won’t come to that.
janesays
@Jinchi: Question about that – if a candidate leaves the race, do they have the power to order their delegates to vote for another specific candidate, or can they just release them generally and make it clear that they want them to vote for a specific candidate? Say for instance I’m a Biden delegate and he drops out and says, “Cast your vote for Buttigieg”, am I actually obligated to cast my vote for Buttigieg or not? I would assume that pledged delegates are only actually pledged to the original candidate they were awarded to – if that candidate withdraws and releases them they are free to vote for whoever they want. Or am I wrong?
janesays
@Another Scott: Unless she gets absolutely trounced on Saturday (finishes lower than 4th place with less than 5% of the vote), I don’t imagine she’ll drop out before Super Tuesday, but if she loses Massachusetts or just barely wins it and doesn’t win any other state that day, she truly is finished. If she’s still a candidate when my state votes a week after Super Tuesday, she’ll have my vote no matter what, even if though it probably won’t matter. But as of this moment, I’ll be surprised if I’m voting for her on March 10th.
Eljai
@janesays:
No, I’m not saying that. The rules are that you have to get to 50% at the convention. That’s unlikely now. The person who wins at the convention will be the person who can build the biggest coalition. Going into the national election with a 60% + coalition is better than going in with 50.
schrodingers_cat
@Jinchi: According to Jacobin it is 15%. But HRC didn’t have a snit fit at the convention nor did her supporters boo Obama. She made a gracious speech at the convention while BS sat red faced pouting at HRC’s convention.
Kent
I think delegates are only bound on the first ballot. After that there are no rules. One assumes that they will be somewhat loyal to their original candidate because that is how you become a delegate. But I don’t think there are any rules at all that any delegate after the first round has to follow any orders from their candidates. It just becomes about persuasion after the first ballot. Even the front runner can bleed delegates after the first round. He doesn’t have them locked up either.
Eljai
@janesays: Biden can release his delegates and he can endorse another candidate. But the delegates can vote for whoever they want.
geg6
@trollhattan:
Can’t speak to his first run in 1960, but by the time 1968 rolled around, that mother fucker was rich. And he didn’t get any less rich by being impeached and resigning. No way was he as “poor” as Carter or Clinton on the day he was sworn in.
opiejeanne
@Orange Is The New White: I think that was the default party for John Schmitz, after he decided that Nixon was a lefty for going to China. He would still be considered extreme for his various opinions.
geg6
@Kent:
Here’s my problem with this…there really isn’t a Sanders lefty wing in the party. It’s a bunch of independents who mostly don’t actually vote in most elections and who hate the party but love the idea of taking it over and stealing everything our hard work over the years has produced. Fuck them. I don’t give a shit about them. Let’s get real Dems or Dem leaners to the polls and forget about lost causes that make up a small proportion of the party and populace. The biggest, most lefty Bern supporter I know is a guy older than I am who has been a socialist crank around my area for years and years. He’s never supported any of the Dems here and he’s not going to change. Clinton won without him and his friends. Obama won without him and his friends. Fuck him, his friends and all the Berners. I don’t give a shit about what they might do. It would be best if we all felt the same way.
senyordave
@schrodingers_cat: In 2008 you had McCain, and in 2016 you had Trump. I’m no fan of McCain, but he was not an unrepentant racist and not someone who bragged about sexually molesting women. The fact that a significant number of Sanders supporters voted for Donald Trump out of spite says a lot about Bernie Sanders’ supporters. Sanders attracts a lot of shitty people (just like some of his hires).
trollhattan
@senyordave:
In a weird and Rovian way, McCain was the target of a racist trope when the Bushies push-polled him having fathered a black baby. I have to believe McCain kept that memory close whenever dealing with the Bushies, knowing a good-sized cohort of Republicans were just fine with the tactic.
Origuy
The American Independent Party is the descendant of George Wallace’s independent run for President. It’s far right wing. A lot of Californians register for that because the non-partisan choice is “Decline To State”.
trollhattan
@Jinchi:
Booker and Harris were gone from my CA ballot FWIW.
opiejeanne
@debbie: Thank you. I’ll read it in a bit.
And YIKES!
opiejeanne
@Cheryl Rofer: That’s why the hospital has these stations, for sick people.
My point is that this is the first time that I’ve been to either site when there wasn’t at least one sick person wearing a mask. It surprised me.
opiejeanne
@Amir Khalid: Grant was broke after his presidency. Samuel Clemens wrote his biography and gave the proceeds to Grant, so that he would not be destitute.
opiejeanne
@Another Scott: The party put Truman on the ticket. FDR considered Truman to be an uneducated hick.
debbie
@opiejeanne:
As I recall, he spent his last years (while dying from cancer) writing his autobiography so his family would have some funds after his death.
Another Scott
@opiejeanne: Hehe.
I think I read/saw in some documentary that FDR went along because Truman had a great reputation as a result of his efforts to combat corruption in the war effort. (But then pretty much kept him out of the loop after the election (Truman didn’t know about the Manhattan Project).)
Cheers,
Scott.
Kent
Yeah, come to think of it, the Pacific Northwest is full of those sorts of cranks that get obsessed about weird shit that has no translation to Democratic issues. Like water fluoridation, nuclear power, homeopathy, naturopathy, wicanism, etc. The Bernie campaign seems to attract them like flies.
opiejeanne
@Kent: And so many of them don’t bother to register, let alone vote in an election.
So, 25% of 30% is 7.5%. Why worry about what they will do? They’re hardly a blip on the political radar.
The election for a water commissioner seat in Woodinville a few years ago was like a big slice of crazy. Two candidates ran on the idea that there was some sort of conspiracy at the Brightwater facility, I don’t remember what it was about, not fluoride, but just totally whacko stuff. Our other next door neighbor had both their signs in her front yard, because she had done business with them at some point in the far distant past. She owned a paving business.
There are a pair of loonies who get up and squawk about fluoridation at nearly every meeting, and the ones who have been screaming about the new water meters for the past couple of years. They either think they’re being spied on or that the meters will start a fire in their house. Considering that the stupid things are out at the street, it’s not likely to happen.
Jinchi
You’re conflating two things here. Above you cite a 25% number for Sanders voters (12% of whom voted for Trump, the rest stayed home or voted for other candidates.) YouGov has roughly 25% Clinton to McCain, but the difference in the numbers is probably well within the margin of error of these polls.
Jacobin cites Clinton voters going to McCain by 15% but he doesn’t cite a number for voters staying home or writing in other candidates. In fact, it’s compared directly to the 12% for Bernie-Trump voters.
This happens every election and with both parties. Clinton picked up about 10% of Rubio’s voters and 30% of Kasich voters in 2016. It will happen again this year no matter who the nominee is. Sanders is not unusual by this measure and neither are his supporters.
J R in WV
@indycat32:
My Jr High music teacher evidently consumed a lot of sherry in the teacher’s lounge. I was oblivious and could play the piano, so I never noticed the aroma and she loved me anyway, so easy Ace for me.
I would have loved SP Warren too, esp in college, once I learned study habits. Never needed them in High School… not until I decided to major in Comp Sci…
Suzanne
@geg6:
The biggest Bernie supporter I know is the chair of my LD. She is a longtime party operative, a two-time state Senate candidate, and was a delegate for Bernie at the 2016 convention. She is literally a pillar of my community and was named Tempe Woman of the Year. She was also my third-grade teacher and is one of the best people I have ever met. The idea that Bernie/socialism doesn’t have any support in some corners of the party is not accurate. I have met plenty of Bernie fans and progressives and socialists at my party meetings.
This is why I think it’s critical to find consensus with Bernie fans.
J R in WV
@the Conster:
You and Kraux Pas have written heartfelt comments full of undefined pronouns: Her, Herself, Him… She. This makes your comments meaningless to everyone who can’t read your minds.
There are multiple hers and even more multiple hims in the race. Perhaps you mean SP Warren and Senator Sanders? Perhaps not…
Perhaps you can use names for your first reference, and go to pronouns after that? IIRC that’s what we were taught to do, be specific first, then feel free to go with pronouns…
J R in WV
@Immanentize:
This doesn’t even make any sense in English !! Maybe, you were working in another language??? Or got cross-threaded?
tam1MI
@J R in WV: I think he meant to say that the strategic move is to vote for Warren.
J R in WV
@geg6:
Jimmy Carter wasn’t poor, he owned a great big successful farm in Georgia. We sometimes call that “land poor” but in a liquid market, it isn’t actually poor. He seems to be doing OK today …
J R in WV
@geg6:
cokane
I’d love to see it, but man, Warren has run a mediocre campaign. There’s really no one to blame except that campaign for her poor performance so far, as she is a great candidate herself. It’s a shame I think she lost track somewhere in the M4A weeds and tried to announce a plan on every single big issue. I get that’s what alot of highly engaged Democrats want, but it’s not good campaigning. A laser focus on one universally popular issue would have been better.
I don’t buy that the media hasn’t shown her love. I mean, the content of this blog post alone belies that claim.
The biggest thing is she clearly failed to garner support among black and latino Democrats. And she’s at roughly 10% nationally now.
J R in WV
@J R in WV:
Sorry about the block quote being messed up. While I was typing, the timer for dinner is done was beeping, so I ran off to serve dinner, as opposed to looking at my new comment. Darn it.
Second graph is mine, first is geg6.
cokane
@janesays: This is extremely well said. I think it’s one thing if Sanders has say 30% of the delegates at the convention and say Biden has 25%, then you don’t have to give it to Sanders.
But if Sanders enters at, say, around 40% of the delegates and the next closest candidate only has about 25%? That’s a no doubter who the nominee should be.
janesays
@Eljai: But how do you define a 60% coalition, if not by winning somewhere in the neighborhood of 60% of the votes?