.
This is outrageous. We should use every tool at our disposal, including government manufacturing or contracting if necessary, to make this vaccine available to everyone who needs it. Former Pharma lobbyist Azar should stop putting profits ahead of people's lives. https://t.co/wJR76MEDpV
— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) February 27, 2020
Sen. Patty Murray, top D on Senate Health Committee: "Let’s be clear, public health, not corporate profits, must be the number one focus of our coronavirus response. A vaccine that’s just for rich people won’t do much to protect public health.” https://t.co/pWYpFklvoQ
— Michael McAuliff (@mmcauliff) February 26, 2020
NEW: @SenKamalaHarris demands answers from Trump administration on administration’s plans for transparency and funding for coronavirus response. pic.twitter.com/uLSJpdVQ65
— Meaghan Lynch (@MeaghanBLynch) February 26, 2020
Any emergency Coronavirus funding supplemental Congress approves must include provisions ensuring:
1—Pres. Trump can't transfer the funds to anything other than Coronavirus
2—Vaccines are affordable & available to all who need it
3—State & local governments are reimbursed https://t.co/MPCis40bpq— Chuck Schumer (@SenSchumer) February 27, 2020
In case anyone's forgotten, Azar was the president of Eli Lilly, a member of the board of directors of a pharmaceutical lobby group, and ran a strategist/consultant firm to the biotech and healthcare industries. https://t.co/jgfHeDXlWu
— Michael McAuliff (@mmcauliff) February 27, 2020
The House will be advancing a strong, strategic funding package with transparency and accountability that fully addresses the scale and seriousness of this public health crisis.
— Nancy Pelosi (@SpeakerPelosi) February 27, 2020
Somewhat wish a former U.S. senator and secretary of state was president right now and not a failed reality tv show host
— laura olin (@lauraolin) February 26, 2020
How long before they go from "It’s totally contained!" to "Culling the old and infirm will make America stronger!" https://t.co/0MNl19GmVa
— Mig Greengard (@chessninja) February 27, 2020
OzarkHillbilly
Blech.
Ten Bears
Didn’t hear anything about a vaccine till late yesterday afternoon.
Blowin’ sunshine at the rubes.
Mr. Mack
Good morning. I noticed Pence said several times during the presser “under the President’s leadership”. He may not be smart, but cunning enough to know he has to link his boss to this potential fuck-up.
debbie
If you didn’t see it last night, here’s the bit with Warren and Colbert in a SC restaurant. It’s hilarious. Warren has a really great sense of humor on top of her millions of programs!
Mr. Mack
Oh, and a hearty blech to the man from Mizzou.
JPL
@Mr. Mack: Pence knows that if he doesn’t suck up, Nikki will.
OzarkHillbilly
FTFNYT:
I wonder how many complaints they’ve received about teachers promoting the heterosexual agenda.
Baud
I don’t have a lot of confidence in the Trump administration’s ability to manage this crisis.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone ???
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
rikyrah
@Baud:
Just tell that truth ?
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
That’s what they did in sex ed when I was in school.
NotMax
Now you know.
:)
Geo Wilcox
A woman in Japan has be tested positive twice. She recovered and got it again. According to the article below that has happened in China as well. I don’t think a vaccine is going to work. There is no vaccine for the “common” cold and not really a reliable one for the flu, plus viruses mutate fast.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/27/japanese-woman-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-for-second-time
Mr. Mack
@Baud: Moar wallz!
Dorothy A. Winsor
Love Schumer’s dig about Trump moving funding around any way he pleases, despite what Congress appropriated it for.
debbie
@Geo Wilcox:
Like Trump, we will never be rid of this troublesome virus. //
Ken
@Geo Wilcox: It would be like the flu vaccine. You’ll need a new shot every year tailored to the strains the biologists think will be prevalent that season. They did after all name it “-19”.
Some people react to that with an “uh-oh”, some with an “oh sh*t”, and some with “This is great, my (ahem) former corporation will be profiting off the virus for years!” Unfortunately we have the third kind as Secretary of HHS.
Immanentize
Blech blechity Blech. What a Blech.
We are getting close to our cruise date — 2 weeks. What say the jackal pack mind? Should we stay or should we go? Immp does not want to cancel. We are both healthy (mostly) and not old, smokers or immune compromised. On the other hand, ports might be closed when we get to, at least, Italy. On the other hand, we need a trip and I have no particular place to go, even if quarantined….
If we stay there will be trouble. If we go there will be double….
satby
@debbie: oh, that was great! Thank you!
OzarkHillbilly
@Geo Wilcox: The report I read was that she did NOT get it again, but rather that it had gone “dormant” (I forget the med term they used and can’t remember where I read it so please excuse any innacuracies in my language) It “reappeared” in less than 2 weeks iirc.
ETA: And Debbie got there first with the proper med terms. Thank you Debbie.
Immanentize
@Ken: In any circumstance a vaccine could not possible be ready for 18-24 months unless they just make up some crap and no testing was done to determine effects. Besides the fact that no vaccine has yet been developed. They might as well give people saline placebos for the next two years. It’s not like they have a billion doses manufactured and ready to distribute if the thing that doesn’t exist.
Betty Cracker
@Immanentize: Tough conundrum, but honestly, if things get scary, I’d rather be subjected to public health crisis measures enacted by a sane government than one headed by an incompetent narcissist and his bumbling toadies, so maybe being abroad wouldn’t be a bad thing? On the other hand, being trapped on a ship with sick people wouldn’t be ideal…
Baud
@Immanentize:
I would go but I’m fairly reckless.
snoey
@Ken: Don’t think so. Flu recombines every year in a cycle with pigs and birds – it’s more than just a mutation or two.
Covid-19 seems to have been a single zoonosis.
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly: like shingles
NotMax
@Immanentize
Go for it. Introduce yourselves to the ship doctor too, and bring her/him up to speed regarding Immp’s situation., including providing a contact number for your own physician.
And take out contingency travel insurance to cover any cancellations while aboard.
Immanentize
@Betty Cracker:
@Baud:
Thank you. Both excellent points. Better health care, more reckless. Perfect combo.
If we set sail, I am expecting the ship’s passenger manifest, at least for the passage from San Juan, will be greatly reduced. From what I can gather from available rooms, a lot of people have already bailed. It might be fun to be on a ghost ship with lots of helpful employees.
SiubhanDuinne
@Immanentize: On balance, I’d say go. And have fun. And send pictures.
Immanentize
@NotMax: Will do! Thank you.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Immanentize:
Not Max gives what sounds like good advice to me. The ship might also change a port destination if it can make the arrangements. We had that happen once when the dock workers in Le Havre were on strike.
I think your final destination is Venice, right? There’s virus there, so they might want to dock somewhere else. If you made your plane reservations through them, they’re responsible for rescheduling you. Or they could bus you straight to the airport. Would it do any good to pack a few masks that you could wear if you wind up there? (I feel like a crazy person asking that.)
I assume neither one of you is taking steroids or anything that compromises your immune systems.
Immanentize
@SiubhanDuinne: I see no dissenters. Fun will most definitely be had. Maybe we will jump ship in Monaco if the Italian coast looks like 1944.
debbie
You know this administration is fucked up when it won’t demand that a vaccine be affordable. If he weren’t (presumably) on his honeymoon, I’d almost bet Stephen Miller is behind this.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Immanentize:
And btw, we were on a cruise somewhere–the Mediterranean, I think–shortly after 9/11. The ship was only partly full. We got upgraded to a better room, so that was great!
debbie
@Immanentize:
Stay home. Is this worth being wrong about?
NotMax
@Immanentize
You may be able to upgrade accommodations at no or a cursory fee.
Not to make light of it but unless the Wuhan chapter of the International Order of Oddfellows is aboard, the wager is stacked greatly in your favor.
satby
@NotMax: @Immanentize: Everything NotMax says. Go, if they don’t cancel the trip anyway, and enjoy yourselves.
And at least if they cancel it you will get a refund and you can go somewhere else.
Immanentize
@Dorothy A. Winsor: neither of us has any medication inhibitors. In fact, besides B-12, the Immp is entirely med free. I am a bit worried about the loss of the entire boot on the trip.
ETA boot = Italy
frosty
@Immanentize: oh shit. I’ve been wrestling with shingles (pretty mild case thank FSM) for a year and a half. We don’t need another virus that never goes away. Shingrix apparently hasn’t worked for me.
My opinion: similarity to flu would be the best case, with new vaccines every year. Similarity to colds next, and dormant virus hiding somewhere in your body waiting to break out the worst.
Ken
@Immanentize: But you forget, once Trump claims that a vaccine exists, the entire administration will have to pretend that one does – up to and including distributing saline placebos – lest His Orangeness throws a tantrum.
Another Scott
@Immanentize: I vote GO.
IIRC (no time to check), the Diamond Princess had something like 4000 people on board, and 450 got infected. That’s before they knew anything about it, before the staff were taking more precautions, etc. You know things are different now.
Keep your wits about you, wash your hands, and enjoy yourselves!
Cheers,
Scott.
debbie
@Immanentize:
Alas, I am one of those schmucks. Don’t forget how the Immp’s body has been seriously assaulted over the past year or so. That is sure to have an effect on his immune system.
Karen S.
@Mr. Mack:
Trumpty-Dumpty’s proclivity for throwing people under the bus and then driving that bus back and forth over them several times.
I’m paying even less attention to U.S. political news than I was a few weeks ago because my elderly mother (92 years old) went into the hospital with a UTI and with what turned out to be a fracture in her tailbone that was the source of a lot of pain. She’s in rehab now, probably for the next few weeks. She’s got osteoporosis and Rheumatoid Arthritis. Plus, my dad, who is also 92, is sort of managing to live on his own, though he’s overwhelmed. I don’t live too far away (I’m Chicago, parents in the northwest suburbs) so I go over there (and to see Mom in rehab) when I can. Dad’s got some dementia, but has been VERY reluctant to allow any outside help or to make significant changes to their two-story house (the house I grew up in) although they’ve expressed a desire to live there as long as possible. I have two brothers who aren’t helpful for different reasons. My older brother has special needs and lives in a group home. My younger brother who lives in NYC has decided to let the various grudges against my dad, some valid and others just plain baffling to me, get in the way of doing something like, oh I don’t know, coming back to stay with our dad for a long weekend or something. Fortunately, my wife is great and very supportive and I’ve got wonderful, understanding friends.
Anyway, right now I no longer have much mental and emotional space for politics, but I’ll continue to follow politics as much as possible, mostly by checking in here. I feel like political news is packaged here in a way that’s far less overwhelming and daunting than watching or listening to mainstream TV and radio. Thanks to Cole and the front pagers. I really appreciate what you do here.
satby
@debbie: no, former head of Eli Lilly is. Secretary of HHS Azar.
Ken
@snoey: From your keyboard to the FSM’s noodly equivalent of an ear.
Emma from FL
@Baud: I don’t have a lot of confidence in this administration’s ability to manage a hot dog stand.
satby
@Karen S.: Tough situation for all of you. We’ll be keeping good thoughts for you and your parents.
Immanentize
@debbie: “Being wrong” probably means, worst case, 2 week additional quarantine. If it’s going to kill either of us, it can do that in Medford, MA just as easily. So what I fear most is:
— Boredom
— Being trapped on a large ship with people who are sick while being well
— Getting sick and feeling crappy on a tossing vessel far out at sea.
— same for the Immp.
Steeplejack (phone)
@rikyrah:
Good morning. ?
Avalune
I’ve already commented about being on the flu barge – but I’m not a big fan of cruises even when they aren’t floating incubators of pandemic doom. Enjoy the zombie apocalypse! :-P
Geminid
@Immanentize: If your cruise is cancelled, try New Mexico. Hiking, hot springs, museums, and plenty of good food. Comet II in Santa Rosa has good chile stew.
satby
We got our several inches of snow over the last two days, and more lake effect snow today. Tempted to blow off the market, but I had a great day Tuesday so I’m wrestling with the decision. Going in late, for sure. The older I get, the less I want to hassle with driving in inclement weather. I’ll probably be a shut in by age 70 ?
Cermet
@Geo Wilcox: Uh, not sure if you understand that while virus do mutate, vaccines are easily made for that strain of flu so they do exist and work very well when they are correctly targeted. The issue is what strain will occur – it takes many months to create all the vaccine doses.
mountain granny
@debbie: Senator Warren is such a delightful, well-rounded human being. It is so frustrating to see her being disappeared by the msm.
snoey
@frosty: Colds aren’t much of a model. There are hundreds of different virii that cause colds so you just can’t make “a” vaccine.
Most likely/hopeful case is a single vaccine with occasional tweaks – like measles, etc.
Immanentize
@Geminid: I love N.M. Visited at University of in 2000. Sadly could not wheedle a permanent spot.
NotMax
@Another Scott
By wash your hands, cannot stress enough using soap and water. Outside of medical staff and food service workers, reliance on the gels can end up being sub-optimal.
a) It’s a virus, which antibacterials are not designed to deal with.
b) Every study I’ve ever seen has shown that because people take a longer time using soap and water (lathering, rinsing, etc.,) it provides greater efficacy as an immediate precaution.
TS (the original)
@Baud:
Around the world billions would agree.
OzarkHillbilly
@Immanentize: Aren’t you supposed to fly home? IDK but plan for the possibility of an enforced 2 week extension to your trip?
Avalune
@Emma from FL: That made me laugh out loud. Especially because I started trying to imagine a Trump hot dog stand. The best hot dogs! I know more than anyone about hot dogs!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Karen S.: That’s hard, Karen. Peace and strength to all of you.
O. Felix Culpa
@Immanentize: I’d say go. Not exactly analogous, but my elder son and I flew to NYC for college visits the day the flying ban was lifted after 9/11. Best flying experience ever: no one in the airport and we had the plane almost to ourselves. It was also oddly comforting to be in NYC with friends and strangers at a time of searing shared grief. I hope you’re given the joys of unexpected travel opportunities without the latter.
Bruce K
I’ll see that blech and raise a thbbft and an oop ack (courtesy of the National Radical Meadow Party of Bloom County).
From the ground in Greece, via Kathimerini, three confirmed coronavirus cases: two in Thessaloniki, one in Athens, apparently brought back by people coming from Italy. Carnival celebrations are apparently canceled nationwide.
It’s getting quite worrisome.
Immanentize
@Karen S.: That is a lot to handle. Stay strong! You are doing what you can in very tough circumstances.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@NotMax:
My DIL teaches her kindergarteners to wash long enough to sing Row, Row, Row Your Boat twice. I’ve taken to doing that, though unlike her kiddos, I sing to myself.
satby
@NotMax: this! The hand sanitizer doesn’t clean and only affects bacteria to a degree. Soap and water washing everyone! And all soap is anti-bacterial, so don’t waste money or pollute the environment with the “anti-bacterial” soap. Special attention to around your fingernails too, there’s a reason surgical scrub teams use nail brushes to scrub there.
Cermet
@snoey: Exactly; extremely likely that any vaccine developed for this Corona virus will work for a few years (assuming that is even necessary – like SARs, it might very well disappear. Here’s to hoping on that one.)
Avalune
@Dorothy A. Winsor: What’s the fun of singing it to yourself! I’m totally going to sing that next time I’m in the restroom. And I’m going to think of Imm on the flu cruise while I’m doing it…maybe ad lib some lyrics…row row row your boat sinking down in screams..
Kidding, kidding…about the sinking boat. I don’t wish any of that on anyone. I just don’t like boats and I’m full of sass this morning. I need more sleep. Or coffee. Or a nap followed by coffee would be ideal…
Another Scott
+1
Hang in there, everyone.
Cheers,
Scott.
PenAndKey
The worst part about this? 28 USC § 1498(a) quite literally grants the US government, and any contractors they utilize, the ability to do just that. I’ll just quote the wikipedia summary of the law because it’s pretty good:
Hell, the government doesn’t even need to ask the developers or manufacturers if they can use any patented item in an emergency. They don’t need to negotiate. If the feds tell the inventor of any vaccine that it’s nationalized, said inventor is essentially without recourse and needs to suck it up. They can try their hand in court, but good luck with that.
The only way profit is a barrier is because the administration cares more about money than they do the population. Or they’re morons who literally don’t know that this law exists. Me? I’m guessing both.
NotMax
@Dorothy A. Winsor
Heh. We were taught to sing (out loud or in the head) both verses of “Yankee Doodle Dandy.” For both hand washing and tooth brushing.
OzarkHillbilly
Let’s hear it for Floriduh Woman: Woman accused of leaving boyfriend locked in suitcase until he died
JWR
Saw this in JC’s twitter feed, and it is great:
Me too! But if it gets to this, (Bernies Rools™ trump all), I am going to be seriously pissed.
Baud
@Another Scott:
That’s a bit misleading. It’s only with respect to Bernie that people want her to be harder.
Dorothy A. Winsor
If you’re looking for something great to read, this might be the right moment for Katherine Anne Porter’s novella, “Pale Horse, Pale Rider,” about the 1918 flu.
PenAndKey
@satby: And to add onto satby’s statement, be more focused on the duration and volume of water than the temperature. It’s a common misconception that scrubbing needs to be done under hot water. Warm is plenty, and if it’s too hot people tend to shorten how long they scrub. You’re never going to use water hot enough to kill bacteria anyway (not if you want to keep your skin), so just be comfortable.
danielx
@Baud:
Or any other crisis for that matter.
However…putting Mike Pence in charge of the problem does show a certain amount of shrewdness. One of several reasons that Pence wanted to be VP was that he would have been beaten like a rented mule in his next gubernatorial contest. One of the reasons for THAT was his response to a mini AIDS crisis in my fair state way back in in 2011-2015. Scott County had/had a population of ~24,000, and in January 2015 had 215 diagnosed cases of AIDS – which is a hell of a lot. Issue was that a lot of people were contracting AIDS due to use and re-use of syringes for IV drug use. Pence (surprise surprise!) was totes opposed to needle exchange programs and had slashed funding for public health – a twofer! – because War On Drugs and wasteful government spending, donchaknow.
Going back to that shrewdness thing, guvmint response to the COVID-19 virus will likely fail. Almost certainly, under a guy for whom ideology is everything and who doesn’t believe in science.
By putting Pence in charge, Trump is making sure that none of the fecal matter emitted from the rotary impeller lands on him, which is another reason not to put Jared in charge of the problem. And hey, another twofer – If Pence fucks things up, gives Trump a reason to toss him over the side and pick somebody like Tom Cotton or Jim Jordan or (FSM help us) Devin Nunes in the VP spot, amirite?
NotMax
Is it too weird to say I want to marry this Firefox add-on? Good-bye, default gray on gray.
Not immediately intuitive as to how configure it but once that hurdle is cleared it works like a dream.
Betty
A doctor on TV once recommended singing Happy Birthday. So you have choices.
debbie
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Amazon is listing the paperback at $851.90! ?
danielx
@debbie:
Now if there was a tailored virus that would only affect brown people, Stephen Miller would be on that like an alligator on a toy poodle.
Oops, don’t want to give ideas to that Nazi sonofabitch. Although this one may have occurred to him already.
NotMax
@Dorothy A. Winsor
Can always curl up with Guns, Germs, and Steel (good book) while waiting for the price to drop.
;)
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: Gold plated illuminated manuscript?
Betty Cracker
@Karen S.: So glad you have a supportive spouse — that makes such a huge difference. Hang in there.
germy
chopper
@Geo Wilcox:
they’ve been working on a vaccine for SARS for years and haven’t been able to come up with anything very effective. human immune systems tend not to code well for coronaviruses for some reason.
germy
@OzarkHillbilly: She tried to make it seem like an accident when the police came. She said they were playing hide and seek, and then she fell asleep and forgot him.
But then they checked her phone, and she taped (filmed?) him yelling “I can’t breathe!” and her replying “Good, now you know how it feels when you cheat on me!”
A match made in heaven.
Betty Cracker
I touched base with some of my olds (father, mother-in-law, aunts, uncles, etc.) to see if they’re worried about the virus becoming widespread in the U.S. and find out if they want any help prepping. Interestingly, their reactions broke down along political lines.
The Trumpers are sure it’s overblown by the media to hurt Trump, aren’t making any preparations now and don’t intend to in the future. The Democrats and don’t-give-a-shits are watching the situation closely and buying a few extra canned goods here and there, but no panic.
Maybe we’ll finally get that “don’t drink bleach” reckoning we used to joke about in the Obama years.
NotMax
@OzarkHillbilly
It’s now a carrion bag.
;)
Dorothy A. Winsor
@debbie: Dear god, no. It’s anthologized everywhere. Here’s a kindle collection of three of her stories, including that one, for $9.99.
germy
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
To be fair, drinking bleach will stop the coronavirus.
chopper
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
there’s another really good book about the spanish flu i read years back. don’t have it tho, gave it to my brother. shit, what’s it again.
Avalune
@NotMax: Slow clap.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
God, how I wish more people were voting for Warren than Sanders. God, how I wish it. She wasn’t my top choice, but if she’s the nominee I will have absolutely no qualms about donating, working, evangelizing for her.
OzarkHillbilly
@NotMax: Oh Gaaaawwwddd, you should be shot and pissed on by a never ending horde of feral cats for all eternity.
zhena gogolia
@Betty:
Haha, I was reading this thread backwards, and I thought you meant a doctor recommended singing Happy Birthday as a way of warding off covid-19.
debbie
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I don’t have a Kindle, but I do have a library and it’s already waiting for me!
Elizabelle
@Dorothy A. Winsor: And there is a free PDF version. Yea internet.
Pale Horse, Pale Rider PDF.
The first two pages have really drawn me in. Foreshadowing about young, dead before her time Aunt Amy.
OzarkHillbilly
@Betty Cracker: And then there’s people like me who figure we’ll either get it or we won’t, and if we get it we’ll either die or we won’t.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
I feel the same. Oh well…
Just Chuck
Every time I see Mike Pence in a picture, I imagine him saying “I love lamp.”
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
I refuse to be forced to make a false binary choice.
NotMaxn
@Elizabelle
Guess it couldn’t hurt to sneak in a plug for Barbara Tuchman’s A Distant Mirror.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Yes. That would have won me over. Because of her stance towards BS she comes across as weak. If she is letting BS walk all over her how the hell is she going to stand up for me. It is more likely that she will throw me under the bus to get into the good graces of xenophobic BS supporters.
frosty
@germy: “… taped (filmed?)”
i think we’ll have to go with “recorded”. I doubt the old words from dead tech will ever go away. Our 30-something videographer at work talks about filming stuff.
Nicole
@Immanentize: i’m also in the you should definitely go on the trip camp. Worst case, you’re stuck on the ship for a couple weeks without much to do, and in the end, even if it’s boring, it will still end up making for some great memories for Immp when he’s old and gray. He can tell people about the cruise you two took just the start of a virus outbreak, and it will make for really funny stories.
and that’s the worst case scenario. Best case, you still get to dock in various cities in Italy, and have awesome memories of that. The important thing is you taking the time to have a vacation together.
frosty
@chopper: Spanish flu: Pale Rider by Laura Spinney?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@NotMaxn: I second that one too, though it is much longer.
germy
My local CBS news affiliate is a sinclair station. They have a good weatherman, so I watch to get reliable forecasts. But sometimes we leave the station on, and for the past few days they’ve been running promos for an investigative report they’re doing… on the Canadian healthcare system. The promo features a brief interview with a reporter from “The Mail” who says it isn’t a very good system. Very well then.
On Ash Wednesday, one of the anchors reported that it was Ash Wednesday, a day when “Priests sprinkle ash on the foreheads of Catholics.”
Sprinkle? Very well then.
debbie
@schrodingers_cat:
Do you ever consider that Warren might be treading lightly so as not to alienate his supporters in the event she’s the nominee and hopes to get their votes? Or do you think no further than your own interests?
Elizabelle
Angry Black Lady makes the Washington Post! Imani Gandy participated in an online fundraiser for Elizabeth Warren.
A woman [Charlotte Clymer] raised $170,000 for Elizabeth Warren by dangling gossip. The idea caught on.
[Charlotte Clymer of the Human Rights Campaign tweeted that she’d divulge the name of a TV series whose end grievously disappointed her if she raised $10K for Elizabeth Warren’s campaign, but not a penny less. She got it, and moved on to proferred gossip about a bad encounter with a US Senator, who has so far remained unnamed … but you get the idea. Clymer instead promised gossip about bizarre conversations with a presidential candidate in its place. Please don’t be Marianne Williamson.]
From the WaPost: As of Wednesday afternoon, the two fundraisers had netted $171,000 within 72 hours, according to screenshots Clymer provided from the Democratic donation platform ActBlue. She said she had also received a call from Warren, thanking her and her followers for the contribution.
The unorthodox idea inspired some of Clymer’s followers to rack their minds for things they could dangle for contributions to favored candidates (all Warren, aside from one who sought contributions for Democrat Amy McGrath, who is challenging Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell this year in Kentucky).
Rewire News legal analyst Imani Gandy came up with a recording of an old a cappella solo. Actress Heather Matarazzo offered to re-create a scene from “Welcome to the Dollhouse” in which she dances on a car. Attorney Elizabeth McLaughlin, the McGrath supporter, promised to share details of her tattoo.
… McLaughlin wrote on Twitter that she hit her $10,000 goal; in return, she posted the story behind the tattoo she got after a rough stretch in her life. Gandy, who set the price for her solo at $100,000 (“Yeah, it’s a lot, but I’m kind of shy,” she wrote), instead began posting a video heaping praise on the most recent donor after every $5,000. She had made four videos by Wednesday afternoon, but it appeared she would get to keep her solo to herself.
Yea Imani!
Karen S.
@Betty Cracker:
Thanks. Yes, it really does make a huge difference. She’s been great.
Avalune
@Just Chuck: Would Mother allow him to be in the same room as a lamp without a chaperone?
Betty Cracker
@OzarkHillbilly: You can figure that and still want to make sure you’ll have things to eat, Rx, etc., in case you DO live and the stores are either closed or filled with sick people.
germy
@frosty: I guess “recorded” suggests audio, while “filmed” specifies capturing a moving image. A movie!
Baud
@Elizabelle: That’s very cool.
JPL
@Immanentize: Do you both have nooks or kindles? Make sure to bring a deck of cards and maybe even tangoes. You could be on that boat a long time. Viking will cancel if they think the trip is not profitable for them. Listen to the younger you.
Baud
@Avalune:
Stupid sexy lamp.
Jinchi
Isn’t that Bloomberg’s position.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Elizabelle:
As I recall, one of the unusual things about that 1918 flu was that it was very hard on young people.
Fair Economist
@OzarkHillbilly:That’s a good point. By the time Imm & Immp’s cruise is done, more that likely they’ll have to do a 2 week home quarantine. We had wild transmission reported for the first time in both Spain and France yesterday.
@Betty Cracker:
They’ll keep going to church too, and Singapore, Korea, and Iran indicate that’s a great way to spread coronavirus.
Fair Economist
@Baud:
You had two choices: You could make a false binary choice, or you could refuse to.
I see you’ve made your decision.
schrodingers_cat
@debbie: I don’t have a multi-generational support system in this country. I am not obligated to think from the point of view of political candidates who are oblivious to my interests. And those of the other immigrants who are far more vulnerable than I will ever be.
You have no fucking idea what the Orange man being elected feels like as an immigrant. And BS and his supporters who EW is now courting played a large part in making that happen. I am sorry I have no forgiveness for him or his enablers. If that makes me selfish in your eyes. I can live with that.
Betty Cracker
@Jinchi: Did you see Bloomberg’s town hall last night? I’d vote for Biden or Sanders over him in a primary if it came down to it. But he’d be better than Trump for sure. I cannot stand Bloomberg — the very idea of his candidacy offends me! But maybe it was the juxtaposition between Trump’s loopy press conference and Bloomberg’s appearance immediately afterward that calmed me down a little on that score. Literally ANY FUNCTIONING ADULT, basically.
NotMax
@Baud
Flashing back to A Christmas Story.
‘”Fra-JEE-lay. It must be Italian.”
chopper
@frosty:
it was The Great Influenza by john barry IIRC.
germy
Geminid
@NotMaxn: Ken Follett does a good job with the Black Death in World Without End. One of the protagonists is a woman healer in 14th century England who applies practical methods despite the religious ignorance of the “doctors.” Follett is a very good story teller.
JPL
@Betty Cracker: Sanders and Bloomberg are on the bottom of my list with Sanders last, but Bloomberg did pretty good in that forum.
Biden was really good.
OzarkHillbilly
@Betty Cracker: That sounds like work to me. ;-)
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: I agree with this sentiment except for the BS voting part. Bloomberg will hire competent people compared to the living nightmare in the WH.
germy
@Betty Cracker:
Have you seen this?
James Adomian is the guy of a million voices. Does a great impression of Sanders and Chris Matthews, as well.
debbie
@schrodingers_cat:
I understand that, but it’s like demanding your candidate support XX cause 100% or you will refuse to support him/her. Your position, while it is not wrong, is not the majority position, and if there were a candidate who stood exactly where you wanted them to on immigration, they’d never win. This is not a single issue campaign.
Stand with whoever is closest to your opinion on all of the issues. Stand with whoever seems most capable of getting you as close as possible to your goals. There will never be a perfect candidate; you have to choose among the ones that are in the race
As for your addendum, fuck you. I do have empathy and again fuck you for presuming anyone who isn’t you doesn’t understand.
You’ve said this same thing over and over, and it and you are wrong in your opinion of others here. Stop condemning your supporters.
fancycwabs
Huh. Things Margaret Atwood experienced at the University of Alabama informed her creation of Gilead, too.
JPL
@schrodingers_cat: fyi Your nym was in the NYTimes crossword puzzle.
PenAndKey
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Yup. One of the reasons that particular flu was so deadly was that it triggered a hyperactivation of the immune system and caused what is referred to as cytokine storms, where the body pumps out so many antibody cells that it interferes with all sorts of processes. The worst part? The stronger the immune system is to start the worse the reason will be, and young adults tend to have some of the strongest immune systems around.
Betty Cracker
@JPL: Not at all a fan of Biden, but I agree he did well last night. He’s much better at town halls than debates, and something, perhaps getting blown out in the first couple of contests, seems to have jolted him out of a months-long stupor. If he does really well in SC, maybe he’ll resume front-runner status. I think that’s entirely possible.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat:
It is more likely that she will throw me under the bus to get into the good graces of xenophobic BS supporters.
This is the reason you are pied. You are rabid. Do you ever consider “hey, I might be wrong about this?”
Betty Cracker
Oof, the Dow is down 500-ish. I guess the markets weren’t reassured by Trump’s dog and pony show.
Geminid
@schrodingers_cat: I will be voting for Warren in Virginia March 3.I don’t share your thinking regarding Warren, but I have no problem with you thinking the way you do. And I respect your willingness to earnestly express your point of view.
OzarkHillbilly
How Alabama blocked a man from voting because he owed $4 .
germy
Elizabelle
@Geminid: You are kinder than I am.
With all this disinformation out here, I think making ugly claims on the basis of … what?? … is a real problem. This whole thing troubles me, because Ms. Cat used to be one of my favorites here.
I would rather be FOR something than tear it down.
Chris Johnson
@germy: You see, this tells me Pelosi has a plan. Ain’t just Warren who can have plans.
If Pelosi, knowing Sanders is being partially bankrolled by Putin, is still prepared to back him, that means she’s confident that Democrats can use him in spite of Putin’s ‘gotcha’ strategy. (that being: pump him up like hell among the existing left, and hold back the zingers until he’s the nominee)
If he does get the nom and then Democrats protect him from that planned sabotage, he will OWE us. And he will have been betrayed by Putin, which is something I think he’s aware of (just can’t admit it: ego and simple political calculus)
If Pelosi is OK with him then I’m down. But not for the primary: I’m 100% Warren and 100% not Bernie in the primary, and I’m a Vermonter and backed him (to a point) in 2016.
schrodingers_cat
@debbie: I will support EW in the general election if she wins the nomination although her proximity to BS gives me heartburn.
You are mind reading because you have no idea what I want for immigration reform. I don’t doubt your empathy or that of most Balloon Juicers. However empathy is not lived experience. I will speak up for myself you can choose not to read my comments.
Its not about plans and policies. Its about trust. I implicitly trust Nancy Pelosi, and trusted HRC and Obama. EW doesn’t have my trust.
@debbie:
Jinchi
Especially when they are the people in direct contact with the food supply. Someone yesterday pointed out that it’s easy for him to work from home if he gets sick, but it’s impossible for the woman working at the donut shop.
In a sane country, we’d encourage them to take time off to recover when they get sick. I don’t suppose anyone has pointed out to Trump that this could be a problem for his Big Mac supply.
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle: You called me a loon and now you are calling me rabid. I have never name called you.
What does that make you? An angel I suppose.
NotMax
Yay! Computer problem vanquished (fingers, toes and tendons crossed).
Was experiencing random restarts (no BSOD) on Win 10. Went through the normal regimen of attempts to fix, with little luck. Turns out was behind like six iterations on BIOS updates. Two weeks on, all is copacetic.
Hoodie
@Betty Cracker: Biden does seem to be upping his game. I’d be happy with him or Warren, but it seems like she just hasn’t been able to gain traction. That’s not all that surprising, if I think about all the previous candidates I liked who never went anywhere. Mo Udall would have been a great president.
schrodingers_cat
@Geminid: Thank You. FWIW I do respect EW and her plans for regulating the capital markets.
germy
@Chris Johnson:
That’s my position as well.
Betty Cracker
@NotMax: I had a similar experience recently. (Of course, it decided to shit the bed when I was on deadline!) My problem turned out to be an issue between updated Windows 10 and Chrome.
germy
@Jinchi:
A few years ago we moved to a new town. I decided to visit a restaurant I’d heard nice things about.
While chatting with the waiter, he confided in me that mgmt. told all employees “no sick days allowed” during an upcoming big tourist season.
I never returned.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: Just consider me a former friend who used to think a lot of you.
NotMax
@germy
In all reality, what else would one expect Pelosi to say?
Nothingburger.
Geminid
@Elizabelle: I doubt if I’m kinder than you. More tolerant, maybe.
Betty Cracker
@Hoodie: Someone here said voters may be experiencing a PTSD reaction to 2016 and subconsciously disqualifying qualified women. There may be some truth to that, I don’t know.
Personally, I think much Warren has a better chance of beating Trump than Biden, who I believe will depress turnout among key constituencies. But like you, I don’t have a great track record of backing primary candidates who go on to win the nomination. Obama was the first for me.
germy
@NotMax: Yes, she’s smarter than some of the cats she has to herd.
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle: You remind me of my extended family members who love me and are happy with me as long as I agree with them.
Baud
@germy:
The excerpt reads like NYT propaganda. Maybe the story provides more detail, but all that says is that a portion of supers aren’t committing to automatically vote for the plurality winner. Which is also what every presidential candidate except Bernie has said too.
Elizabelle
@Geminid: I want to defend someone I feel could be a really important change agent.
In all honesty, I am applying a double standard to Ms. Cat because there are hair on fire folks here that I scroll right past. I had always really admired Ms. Cat before, and appreciated her take on just about everything. Her continuing piling on bothers me in a way that others’ does not, and that means it’s time to grow a thicker skin.
You say “tolerant” and so did MomSense, but don’t we have a duty to say something when we see someone being defamed without cause, within a relatively small circle of people?
Also, if I knew you were a huge Lakers or Patriots fan, I would not come before you and talk shit about them every time I saw their name while in your presence.
But that’s just me being intolerant.
Betty Cracker
My daughter sent me this yesterday:
PenAndKey
Oh, we still encourage it. We just don’t, you know, do anything to ensure that anyone that takes that advice can pay their bills or keep their job.
The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
@Karen S.: So sorry for all you’re dealing with. Went through a somewhat similar situation with my own parents only a few years ago. Just know that some stranger on the internet is rooting for you!
NotMax
Aw, hell. TCM just showed an “in Memoriam” spot on Baby Peggy, the last surviving silent film superstar.
germy
Smarter than the av-ah-rage bear.
:)
Geminid
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: It’s not “agreeing with them.” It’s not making unfounded charges against what they hold dear.
It would be fine to say “I don’t believe in your religion.” Statement of fact. It is not fine to say “Your religion will soon be throwing cats into compactors, or already is.” Without evidence. That is … not helpful.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
EW should adopt that as her own. What does she have to lose at this point?
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: I love that image.
Thinking I might make some pins up with it for our volunteers. (And those of you who have attended a long ago DC meetup know how shabby my pin making skills are!)
NotMax
@Betty Cracker
Chrome is the Devil’s whimsy.
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle:
Fact: She is (and was) too close to BS. She agreed with him about 2016 primaries being rigged.
Fact: BS was a factor in HRC’s defeat.
Hoodie
@Betty Cracker: Do you think that the Biden hate is really all that deep? My feeling is that they think Biden is old and useless (I don’t agree with the latter), but generally harmless, and will still be motivated by the chance to dump Trump. I don’t sense it’s as profound or blind as the Hillary hate in 2016, now that it’s really clear what Trump means. It could also be ameliorated by a good VP pick.
With Warren not getting traction and Biden basically having to pull a comeback by bootstrapping a win in SC into wins in Super Tuesday states where he hasn’t been campaigning all that much, it’s kind of like drawing on an inside straight for either of them to outmaneuver Sanders, who stands to win a significant number of delegates in the next few weeks. That situation is a bit concerning, because a convention fight where Biden or Warren is picked based on super delegates over Sanders could really depress turnout. My feeling is that Biden has a better chance of pulling out a straightforward victory over Sanders than Warren, simply because more people know and trust Biden and, if he can pull off a convincing win in SC, the bandwagon effect would be more likely to kick in, with people quickly abandoning candidates like Buttagieg, Klobuchar and Bloomberg to vote for Biden.
montanareddog
@zhena gogolia: I was hoping to catch you during an open thread. Went to see Beanpole yesterday and there was this scene. A woman goes to the military hospital looking for her husband. Subtitles: “I am looking for Stepan”. “Who are you?” “His wife”. The dialogue for the last line, “Zhena” which would have meant nothing to me but for BJ and your presence.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: Only the second one is a fact. The first is an opinion. A valid opinion, but not one everyone is obliged to share.
ETA: Posted before your edit.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: And you take those 2 facts and come up with “she is going to throw immigrants under the bus to pick up xenophobic BS supporters.”
That is my intolerant point. How do you take 1 and 2 and get to 3?
Further, didn’t she walk back her comments about the rigged primaries? (And I winced just as hard as you did when I heard that. No excuse for that. Although: you look at the whole of a person and their work.)
FWIW, and I am a mean girl, I am hoping for a meteor or another serious heart attack for Bernie to save us from all this continued angst.
We cannot get it wrong this November. Or in Milwaukee.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: No worries.
Nicole
@PenAndKey:
And to make it even more interesting, if I remember right something I read recently, there is some theorizing that the hyper activation may have been due to younger adults having had a very dissimilar flu prior to the influenza. The immune system has a memory, and one of the many reasons getting a flu vaccine is good for you is because, even if you get the flu, the immune system has learned enough from the similar vaccine that it can leap into action faster so you don’t suffer as much (my son’s best friend got the flu this year after being vaccinated, but for him it was 3 days of staying home from school and complaining he was bored, rather than being totally bedridden). In the case of the Spanish Influenza, the immune system leaped into work, but in the wrong direction, so to speak. It knew the body was under attack, but didn’t know enough about the invaders to be effective.
(Whereas, older folk at the time had experienced a flu decades and decades before that was pretty similar to the Spanish Influenza and THEIR immune systems were able to leap into action in the correct direction.)
Again, just hypothesizing on the part of infectious disease researchers (we’ll likely never know for sure), but really interesting.
And I feel like there’s some sort of parallel to be drawn between this and contemporary Republican American foreign policy.
NotMax
Ooh. The Devil and Daniel Webster just begun on TCM. Worth it entirely for the final scene with Walter Huston inhabiting the persona of Old Scratch.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@satby: Alcohol-based hand sanitizers (70%) absolutely do have an effect on viruses. That’s why hospital workers use them all the time
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Alcohol-based hand sanitizers
Yeah, and I could sanitize with vodka too.
What do surgeons scrub up with?
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: The first one is still a statement of opinion.
Elizabelle
@Nicole: I found it interesting that the Spanish flu was barely mentioned, if at all, in my high school history classes. Kind of an addendum to stuff that happened during WW1.
It’s like it was so terrifying and heartbreaking that people did not dwell on it.
Did you ever see it in movies or popular culture? It’s like it did not happen. If there were references, maybe they were sufficiently veiled that a late 20th/21st century reader wouldn’t pick up on them
Do you guys recall anything that referenced the flu of 1918? Maybe it was addressed in art …
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Her rigged primaries comment and her inability until very recently on calling out BS are the two data points that have led me to that conclusion.
So as you say it is an opinion but it is based on evidence.
Betty Cracker
@Hoodie: Agree that Sanders is in the best position right now to win the nomination. Also agree that Biden has a better chance of outmaneuvering him than Warren does.
IMO, either Sanders or Biden would be a problematic nominee, but honestly, I think Biden would be worse. No one hates him, but they see him as the same-old same old, and they’re not wrong.
It’s entirely possible that the burning desire to get rid of Trump will propel our nominee is to the presidency, whoever it is. That’s my sense, really — that Trump is weaker than generally supposed and that we’ll win. I will be heartily sorry if we squander such an opportunity on some rickety old fart (either one!), but maybe that’s where we’re headed.
cain
@Geo Wilcox:
That poor woman. I was looking at the symptoms and it is not remotely pleasant. Being able to catch it again after having it shows who insidious this thing is.
Captain C
@Baud: Most non-Republicans might think the trade-off is a little high.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: Did you see BS bros stalking a D congressional candidate, it was a woman BTW. BS and his “movement” is like the MAGA movement but from the left. It is built on resentment and it promises the impossible. He will be far more corrosive as the nominee.
germy
@NotMax:
https://www.shorpy.com/node/25403
(Baby Peggy visits the president)
joel hanes
@debbie:
Like Trump, we will never be rid of this troublesome virus.
If you’re under 50 years old, you’ll probably be rid of Trump eventually. He can avoid taxes, but eventually he’s gonna have that conversation with a Terry Pratchett character who talks LIKE THIS
And in Trump’s case, I think what that character will say is SQUEAK
cain
@Karen S.:
My parents remark on this, and says that daughters are always the most reliable. They have no daughters, but for one reason or another you can always count on them when it comes to helping their parents.
Good for you for taking care of your parents.
schrodingers_cat
@cain: Husband kitteh has quit his WhatsApp family group. He got tired of pushing back against his uncle’s propaganda and constant barrage hate videos that he would forward on a daily basis.
joel hanes
@Immanentize:
I would say the magnitude of the bet depends on your ages.
If anyone in your party is over 70, the bet becomes markedly worse. Worse yet if the elderly people are male.
Geminid
Denver Riggleman, the Republican congressman of my home district, (VA 5th), has a Republican challenger. Riggleman was selected as Republican nominee in 2018 after Tom Garrett announced his retirement due to alcoholism. Ironically, Riggleman was a vodka distiller (Besides a Defense contractor). Anyway, an athletics fundraiser at Liberty University, Bob Good, is challenging Rigglelman, and the Republicans are deciding the contest by caucuses, in order to have a tent so small only religious zealots and tea party cranks can fit. The Dems are having a June primary. A good pickup opportunity.
david
Guessing Mike Lukovich doesn’t know how fire trucks work if he think the trucks “bring the water”.
Betty Cracker
@cain: An actuary I used to work with a long time ago said this is borne out in data: people who have daughters tend to live longer.
joel hanes
@danielx:
pick somebody like Tom Cotton or Jim Jordan or (FSM help us) Devin Nunes in the VP spot.
Nikki Haley is rested and ready.
She’s spent more than a decade preparing for this moment.
But I can’t imagine Trump nominating a woman, especially a woman of color.
J R in WV
@NotMax:
Actually, I have seen what appeared to be sourced from medical science, the opinion that alcohol kills Covid-19 about as well as bleach or hydrogen peroxide.
I’m going to go on a mission shortly to acquire a short ton of kibble, canned goods, dried onions/garlic, dried beans and rice, stuff easy to keep and to prepare. Don’t know exactly where I’ll put it all, but better to have it in stacks in the living room than to run out at the worst possible time.
joel hanes
@NotMax:
I once depended heavily on TabMix Plus, which gave Firefox tabs in rows instead of on a single long scrolling bar. It also allowed me to separately control the width, color, and font of tabs I’d visited versus tabs I’d opened but never visited.
The new Firefox architecture (which brought much good), made that functionality impossible.
At work, I sometimes had fifty or sixty open tabs; at home, I still sometimes have twenty or more.
I hate the single scrolling tab bar. Oh well.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: That makes sense to me, as the daughter who cared for both parents in home hospice.
Also: less social isolation if you have a daughter or two. (Unless Mom is toxic, and that does happen.)
PenAndKey
@Nicole: This is also a big reason why dengue fever is so bad the second time people get it. Rather than offering protection from the virus, your body’s quick anti-body response the second round is actually hijacked by the virus to more efficiently get into your cells. It’d be a bit like giving a race car a NOS injector that increased the amount of NOS being injected as the current levels increased.
You know, I believe there might be a reason I went into microbiology? Even when talking about pandemics a big part of me geeks out. I’m sure my old virology and pathology professors would be proud.
Immanentize
@Betty Cracker: we joke with my Mom that her worst retirement plan was only birthing boys. But you know, not a joke?
joel hanes
Betty Cracker:
Ten pounds of rice, five pounds of beans, five pounds lentils or garbanzos, several pounds each of raisins and peanuts. Pitted dates are a treat and keep pretty much forever. Five pounds of dried apricots. Ten pounds flour, canned shortening, and some sugar if you bake (I don’t).
On canoe trips and backpacking, our hard rations were trail mix, jerky, mixed dried fruit, and chocolate.
J R in WV
@debbie:
If you search for “Pale Horse, Pale Rider,” on Google, you will see a free pdf is available for that work.
Abe Books is selling a hardcopy for $4.09. That Amazon quote may be for a signed first edition or something like that… or just someone trying to cash in.
glory b
@NotMax: My thought exactly, what else could she say?
joel hanes
@NotMaxn:
Daniel Defoe, _A_Journal_Of_The_Plague_Year_
Albert Camus, _The_Plague
Elizabelle
@joel hanes:
Thank you.
glory b
@schrodingers_cat: I saw that, it looked kind of scary. She ran and got in her car, then they yelled st each other to block her in. This was at night too!
I believe the news cast said she didn’t understand what they were saying. They were yelling at her to agree to a debate with a “little-known left leaning challenger'” but she said she doesn’t know what they are talking about, she never refused to debate anyone.
There is also video of Bernie supporters going to the homes of local Dem party officials (again at night) and yelling at them through bull horns. I don’t remember where, maybe Nevada?
joel hanes
@Elizabelle:
I have discovered that my life is better if I don’t try to argue with people who are “wrong” on the internet. I’m registering sc’s comments as information: “that’s what sc thinks”.
Other people’s too.
Eolirin
@glory b: I thought Sanders cleared this all up, that anyone doing that were Russian actors and not legitimate supporters? //s
Nicole
@Elizabelle: It was very briefly mentioned in one of my school textbooks. Like, a paragraph or two at most. I knew about it because my parents had a copy of The People’s Almanac, which had a section on natural and man-made disasters and I found the entry on the Spanish Influenza absolutely terrifying (every bit as much as the entry on the Black Death and on Jack the Ripper- oh yeah, they also had a section on famous murderers, too. Oh, The People’s Almanac– the stuff of a young child’s nightmares. I miss it). My grandfather told me his grandfather died from the Spanish Influenza, but I looked up his death certificate and it doesn’t match- cause was pleural pneumonia, but he died in June of 1917, so too early.
The American Experience, I think it was, did a wonderful episode on the Spanish Influenza a couple of years ago, and they talked at the end about how it’s been forgotten from history- some of the speculation was that it was so terrible that the people who survived just wanted to not think about it after it was over. Highly recommend the episode; fascinating and heartbreaking viewing.
misterpuff
Dear Leader better get on this because the coronavirus in aimed squarely at his base. It will be cosmic justice if he loses the election because the MAGA horde is decimated by the fact Drumpf fired” all the best people” ’cause he’s “businessman”.
J R in WV
@NotMax:
People can use alcohol based hand cleaner in the total absence of running water. Or vodka. What surgeons scrub up with is irrelevant to everyone this side of an operating room.
Nicole
@PenAndKey: That’s really interesting about dengue fever! And terrifying, too.
I did not go into science as a field, but in the course of a job I read a number of medical textbooks and always liked the chapters on the immune system and viral infections. The medieval sweating sickness is another one I somehow find myself googling from time to time, just from morbid curiosity.
J R in WV
@david:
Guessing you have never thought about a house fire where there are no fire hydrants. The VFD will use their trucks to bring water to the fire. Most of the rural country has no water system with hydrants.
Elizabelle
@joel hanes: Words to live by.
And I shall. Thank you.
joel hanes
@Elizabelle:
I found it interesting that the Spanish flu was barely mentioned, if at all, in my high school history classes
Polio too also.
To tell the truth, I don’t remember them mentioning much about pertussis or scarlet fever or measles either. Or the incredible public health technology called “soap”.
Cholera they mentioned, but they never explained that disease was a critical factor in winning or losing many wars.
joel hanes
@Betty Cracker:
people who have daughters tend to live longer.
And children who have living grandmothers tend to do better in life, and to have more descendants. There’s some theorizing that this is one reason that women have menopause (not common in other mammals) and long life-spans.
I live with a daughter and have two grand-daughters. I’m set.
satby
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): they don’t clean and soap and water is better. Otherwise the surgical team would just sanitize down.
BTW, the only part of nursing school I never completed was the psychiatric clinical rotation. Ironically the part of nursing school that would have been most useful to my subsequent career in IT and for hanging out on this blog.
Nicole
@joel hanes:
I remember getting some kind of public health publications aimed at small children when I was little- like restaurant menus for kids, but instead of word searches about food, it was mazes where you ended up with serious childhood illnesses. Hmm… maybe THAT’s where the fascination with pandemics started…
But not much of anything by high school.
As a Gen-Xer who remembers those terrifying handouts, let me make a public service announcement to fellow Gen-Xers to get checked for measles immunity. I and my husband, who grew up five years and over a thousand miles apart, were both checked last year and neither of us were still immune. I’m pretty confident I had received two measles shots, too, because I found record of one when I was a baby and I remember getting a second one as a child (part of a public health initiative that was tied in to Star Wars. Truth. I have a photo of me and my brother, post-shots, looking very glum, standing in between cutouts of C3PO and R2D2).
Anyway, so worth getting the titer test. Obv. husband and I were freshly re-boostered last year after the result.
joel hanes
@Nicole:
I had the measles when six years old. That was a long time ago.
After talking to my doctor during one of the measles outbreaks, I redid the MMR sequence.
And it’s always good to renew DPT every few years.
And if you’re older: there is a pneumonia vaccine. Talk to your doctor.
Elizabelle
@Nicole: Thank you. And it’s time for PBS to rebroadcast that American Experience. Or make it available online. (It might be. Will check today.) Haven’t seen that one.
@joel hanes: Yes! Cholera and flu and epidemics and their effect on military actions. I remember the Yellow Fever (and other diseases) and its impact on the Battle of Veracruz. Learned that in passing when doing a paper on General Santa Ana.
The internet provides. By David W. Tschanz, MSPH, PhD, no idea where this was originally published. But it seems sound. Looks like maybe U of Montana.
http://entomology.montana.edu/historybug/mexwar/mexwar.htm
YELLOW FEVER AND THE STRATEGY
OF THE MEXICAN-AMERICAN WAR
Haven’t read the article, so I have no idea what the toll was on the Mexican soldiers and civilians.
Nicole
@joel hanes:
That’s so interesting- I was under the impression if you’d had measles, you were pretty much assured lifetime immunity. What was the doctor’s reasoning? (Just curious, as the MMR isn’t a big deal for most people who get it, but I know was the one shot I had to sit in the doctor’s office for 15 minutes after before I was allowed to leave)
My stepmom, who is Cambodian, had measles growing up, and, upon my asking, remembered that my stepbrother (my age but they didn’t emigrate until 1980) not only had it as a young child, but almost died from it. When I told him it was the first he’d heard of it. Family medical history is important to ask about.
joel hanes
@Nicole:
There’s some evidence that the acquired immunity for some diseases fades over a long time, especially in the weaker immune systems of older people.
MMR immunization shots definitely fade, so people born after 1957 should get them refreshed periodically. I was born before 1957.
It’s certainly true that tetanus immunization should be renewed fairly frequently.
debbie
@Nicole:
We were lied to when we were told things like this last forever. Nothing lasts forever, not immunity, not plastic surgery, nothing. It helps that things like smallpox and polio aren’t as prevalent as they used to be, but I’ve been told getting boosters for these things might not be a bad idea.
Aleta
@Immanentize:
Fwiw: A friend in Italy told me The Local is a good English language site for Italian news about the virus and articles about tourism right now. I took a look, and this article is accessible: https://www.thelocal.it/20200227/should-you-be-concerned-about-the-coronavirus-in-italy
Some articles are pay-walled, but according to the site, a 2 month sub is $4.99.
Best wishes to you two.
(Seems like a healthy immune system might be the best bet for those of us so fortunate to not be immune suppressed or compromised. So today I’m thinking … since exposure risk isn’t going to go away, maybe we should concentrate on the things that help the immune system and its circulation (less stress, extra fluids, fruits and veg, and relaxing movement?).
Travel with boullion and soup powder, electrolyte powder, Emergenc-C ? Eat soup when you can?
joel hanes
@debbie:
We were lied to when we were told things like this last forever.
I suspect that the idea of permanent immunity was supported by the best-available evidence at the time.
Nicole
@joel hanes: Oh that’s interesting. I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised, though. When my son was a baby, he got, as is usual, a couple of cases of coxsackie (hand foot and mouth disease). And, despite, I’m sure, having had it as a baby myself, and reading that it was supposed to mean a lifetime of immunity, I too, got coxsackie the second time he had it. And had it MUCH worse than he did.
I tried to get my tetanus booster at the same time as the MMR last year, but my doc said not until it had actually been ten years, so I’ll get it this year. Which is a hassle. But, on the bright side, I can assume I’m good on coxsackie for the rest of my life.
Ben Cisco
Not in so many words, but certainly would account for some of what has been relayed to me by people I wouldn’t have expected it from. How else can you explain any AA mother being willing to wave away Stop And Frisk?
tybee
@david: There are such things as pumper trucks that do carry water.
Jon Marcus
Oh FFS, are they seriously gonna argue over this?! If this vaccine isn’t affordable, then fewer people will get it. If fewer people get it, then covid-19 will spread. And if covid-19 spreads, then we’re *ALL* at greater risk. Even wealthy men like Alex Azar and Donald Trump!