I was raised by a guy who had a really hard life as a farm boy, dealt with a lot of death, and pretty much was never fazed by much during his career as a small town doctor. When he retired, his colleague, who was an incredibly talented physician, good friend, and fitness buff, said that whenever there was a crisis, everyone felt better when my old man showed up, because his indomitable confidence made them all think everything would be OK. Dad gave the eulogy for his younger friend after he died in his 60’s of a very malevolent form of cancer.
Two of my brothers had lymphoma in their mid-40s. One of them almost died on the operating table as they were inserting his port prior to treatment. The other had complications that required chest surgery and two weeks in a specialty hospital. Both were in perfect health before diagnosis, and, in each case, their lymphoma was diagnosed late because doctors seeing hoofprints were late to see the zebras. They are both fine today. My mom is currently fighting lung cancer even though she never smoked, was on no medicine, and was fit and flexible when she was diagnosed at 79.
Dad is still around and he was the voice we listened to when my brothers and mom got sick. We first got sad and angry about the diagnosis, then we listened to the experts, informed ourselves as best we could from reliable information sources, made our best treatment decisions, and moved the fuck on with the ugly work of dealing with cancer.
What we sure as hell didn’t do, by nature and by conscious decision, was panic. My Dad is pretty easy going with his kids, by my God I couldn’t imagine the anger and withering disapproval he would have had if any of us had panicked. Because everyone dies. And someone dies every moment of every day. Only blithering idiots think they can dodge death, or that there’s some justice in who the grim reaper chooses to hack into pieces. Panic wouldn’t save anyone. Panic would make us stupid, and we all needed to use our brains if my brothers and mom were going to live.
It’s with that perspective that I view the current virus panic. We can’t do anything about the cowards in charge (except work to vote them out), but we certainly can avoid being infected by panic. We can also plan for something good to come, and make sure that we hang every stupid, cowardly move they make firmly around their over-entitled, moron necks.
So, put your makeup on and fix your hair up pretty, because you’re alive today and odds are that you’ll be here tomorrow, no matter what any of the pants shitters in DC have to say.
Comrade Scrutinizer
r/phased/fazed
oclday
Excellent advice.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Comrade Scrutinizer: I like a commenter who lives up to his or her name. Fixed, thanks!
Comrade Scrutinizer
People love drama. Most don’t really believe down deep that they will actually be affected, but it feels so good to run around and kvetch.
germy
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
Meet the ‘Cannabis Czar’ Tasked With Ending New York’s Weed Prohibition
https://gothamist.com/news/cannabis-czar-marijuana-weed-legal-norman-birenbaum-
Comrade Scrutinizer
@download my app in the app store mistermix: Nice grepping with you!
zhena gogolia
On this topic, I’m trying to stick to people with real information. Political twitter is annoying me because it’s all about the incompetence of the Trump administration, which is a given. I can’t focus on that.
The best thing I saw today was “More hand washing, less face touching.” That’s about all I can control. Actually, I can’t control it because I constantly touch my eyes, nose, and mouth. But I can try!
Elizabelle
Wonderful essay, MisterMix. Saving it.
Keith P
@germy: “The Cannabis Czar” sounds like a bong
zhena gogolia
I’m also going to write to the minister to suggest that nobody touch anybody during the “passing of the peace.” Especially because we recently threw out all the hand sanitizer we had in the sanctuary because one person was allergic to it.
bemused
The word pragmatic came to mind reading about your dad. He reminds me so much of my Scandinavian family.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@germy: Could it be possible that Mario’s kid is finally getting serious about legalization? That guy sounds like the real deal.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Always good to see quotes from Bruce.
I just a tweet from someone at O’Hare who overheard people laughing at the idea that washing their hands would prevent Coronavirus because after all it was respiratory. I assume if they were laughing, they weren’t panicking, so they had that going for them. Since I live in the Chicago area, I don’t find them funny at all. Oh well. I’ll wash my hands and hope for the best, since that’s all I can do at the moment.
Just Chuck
@download my app in the app store mistermix: While we’re picking on you, the last sentence should probably read “you’ll be here tomorrow”
Starfish
@zhena gogolia: On most social media platforms that I have been on, I have found ways to mute the names of candidates in the run-up to elections because the political hot takes are just so stupid. You might consider muting the word “Bernie” on Twitter if you have not already. As an added bonus, things about Bernie Madoff are filtered out.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@bemused: Yep, German from North Dakota, similar.
Also, he hates Trump with a hate of a thousand suns. You guys on this blog are amateur hour compared to him.
bemused
It occurred to me to get a new thermometer to replace old one. Anyone recommend a good digital thermometer that isn’t super expensive?
Starfish
Some of the concerns are around summer travel plans and conference attendance plans. Do people want to be on planes while this is going on? Are some large conferences with a lot of attendees going to be canceled?
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Just Chuck: Thanks, changed it.
@bemused: Seconded. If anyone finds one let us know. Every one that I’ve bought in the past few years (expensive or cheap) has been a piece of shit.
germy
@download my app in the app store mistermix: Andrew is traveling to states that have legalized. He says he wants to learn from them.
I don’t know if this means he’ll give up his hopes for a slush fund from pot sales. (Wasn’t that a sticking point last time?) We’ll see.
bemused
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
Oh please, tell us more about his opinions of trump. No doubt very entertaining and I’m running out of new ways to express how I feel about the psycho prick.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Just Chuck: Unless it’s a more of an existential thing, like “No matter where you go, there you are,” not limited by a particular plane of being. Or something.
Jane2
Pay attention to the CDC information and “normal” government sites – ie, non-US. Take the sensible advice re handwashing and contact and preparing for self-quarantine if in the vulnerable population. As one who is, I’m getting a month’s supply of asthma medication and starting it now (I am symptom-free and rarely use an inhaler). No point in a run on hand sanitizer – it kills bacteria, not viruses. Other than that, be informed and pay no attention to Trump, Pence and the rest of the clown show.
And for heaven’s sake, no panicking about the markets – they were due for a correction anyway. It is what it is, and none of us is wealthy enough to do a thing about it. Take comfort in that if your investments tanked, so did everyone else’s–we’ll be living under that overpass together. Near a water supply with lots of soap.
debbie
Right! My battle plan will be avoidance of people in general. Not only will I avoid germs; I will avoid assholes who want to talk to me.
trollhattan
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
My unselfish side has me glad my folks and granny did not live to see Trump’s presidency. They would have taken it to mean the country is irretrievably broken.
Cermet
Sooner or later either heart troubles, cancer or immune system failure kills almost everyone at some point. Cancer and immune failure for those who are lucky to get to their 70’s, and 80’s. This current virus is just another danger we face – certainly more of a concern than some things. But due to AGW, population growth and destruction of the enviroment it is likely more and worse ones will emerge as we continue along these paths.
zhena gogolia
@trollhattan:
My husband and I say this all the time about our parents. And my mother was a Republican, sort of.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Starfish: I think a number of conferences have already been cancelled. IIRC Bloomberg (not the candidate) had an article on that earlier in the week. Grain of salt, ’cause I may be fabulizing and I’m too lazy to go look it up.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
If you spend time on twitter, you’ve probably seen this guy’s stuff retweeted. I’ve never been sure if eh’s a MAGAt parody or not, and this does nothing to clear that up
Comrade Scrutinizer
@debbie: So I should go on like always?
BGinCHI
Fabulous advice.
My kid woke up sick in the middle of the night last night and I had to fight that twinge of panic. I knew it wouldn’t turn out to be anything, likely, and it didn’t. He’s better this morning. But because those fucks in DC have made us all second-guess the otherwise fine people working on these problems, we’re all jumpy.
Better to spend our energies loving each other, being productive, and finding ways to burn the GOP to the ground.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@trollhattan: my parents hated trump, in their quiet way. The Pete Souza Obama book was prominently displayed on their coffee table, which I’m sure made a few wing nut (fundie Catholic) relatives uncomfortable, and a little confused
HinTN
I have a friend who’s very conservative but also hard headed in a very good way. She’s a NP midwife and she posted a big wall of words on FB to the effect that, despite the longer time it takes Covid 19 to run its course (compared to influenza), this thing isn’t really that big a deal when it comes to mortality. Its victims are (mostly) elderly and/or those with already compromised defenses. Children and young adults are rarely killed, although they may be sick for several weeks. That begs the question of our social structure, where extended absence from the source of income can be devastating, but it is realistic in terms of our physical constitution and its ability to withstand this virus. Her advice mirrored yours: Don’t panic, practice good hygiene, etc. Thanks for this post.
delk
I’ve posted before that I tested positive for HIV a week after my 23rd birthday. At the time there still were no treatments available and my doctor told me that at best I had 18 months to live. I did not think I would live to 25. This year I will be 58.
Starfish
@debbie: This is no way to Get Out the Vote. I say sarcastically as I sit on my couch having been sick for the past several weeks unable to do any GOTV stuff.
Ohio Mom
I went on a hand washing kick a couple of years ago — for one, I always wash them as soon I come back home from wherever I’ve been, if it was the store, I don’t even unpack the groceries first — and I’ve gone two winters without a cold, a record for me.
My other secret is zinc lozenges, if I feel the slightest bit of a scratch throat. Will my method for avoiding colds work as well in averting the Coronavirus, should it make its way to Cincinnati? Can’t hurt.
But I am fatalistic about most ailments. I had breast cancer seven years ago, dealt with it in a manner that would make Dr. Dad Mistermix proud, and live with the knowledge it could recur at anytime.
My main goal in life is to get Ohio Son launched, as much as you can launch someone with autism. That’s the clock that is ticking for me.
zhena gogolia
@delk:
I’m glad!
Cathie from Canada
The CDC and federal authorities have their Trump marching orders: lie! Pretend nothing is happening.
This means that nobody is supposed to be gathering statistics or announcing anything. But when the New York Times puts together state statistics from California, New York and Texas, and announces next week or the week after that it has found a thousand new COVID-19 cases, then everyone will panic, including the markets.
Starfish
@Comrade Scrutinizer: At first, they were canceling some of the conferences in Asia, but I feel like now some of the ones in California may be getting canceled too. I have not been paying a lot of attention, but some coworkers just got accepted to a conference in California and are not sure if they should book the travel or not yet.
wvng
I have difficulty understanding how the infectious disease and pandemic management experts at CDC and NIH can possibly be effective at their tasks with a vindictive President who doesn’t tolerate “disloyalty” out publicly calling the COVID19 threat a hoax?
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-accuse-democrats-coronavirus-new-hoax
germy
@wvng: Has he called the disease a hoax, or has he called the media’s reporting of his poor handling of the crisis a hoax?
JMG
All the self-care advice is relatively easy to practice, with one exception. For those of us with reading glasses, not touching the face is not easy.
Ken
But if people panic, they’re more likely to pay the jacked-up prices I’m charging for my antiviral aromatherapy candles.
BTW if you bought my plain aromatherapy candles last week, contact me. For a small upcharge I’ll send you a bottle of homeopathic water that you can mist over the candles, which will make them as efficacious against viruses as the ones I’m selling today.
Cathie from Canada
@HinTN: But in terms of mortality, it IS a much bigger deal than influenza – 2 per cent, rather than 0.1 per cent. A doctor on twitter said the aggressive measures in Wuhan had given the world an extra month to get ready for COVID-19, and maybe that extra month would help to limit its impact. Or maybe not.
germy
germy
trollhattan
@Starfish:
Kiddo has a soccer showcase tournament in Vegas next month, drawing players from western US and Canada, and I’m giving 50:50 on whether it will be held at all. You can probably go to a Vegas sports book and place that bet.
trollhattan
@Cathie from Canada:
2.0 vs. 0.1 seems like a big Biden deal to me, especially if it’s easily transmitted.
WereBear
I’m not worried about the virus as much as I am the societal disruption that will occur when we have nothing but fools and con artists running society’s levers during a crisis. This makes “no big deal” into OMG.
germy
@WereBear:
zhena gogolia
Okay, mistermix had the right idea, but this thread is making me panic now!
Central Planning
Some idiot parent at my kid’s rowing club sent out an email with things to do to keep your immune system healthy. It included such gems as
I’m almost ready to write my email to the club president asking him if this person is also an anti-vaxer. That kind of shit should not be sent out, especially anything that gives kids an out for not washing their hands. I feel like the writer probably believes this clip from the Princess Bride
Scout211
So mixtermix,
Is you dad looking to adopt any more adult children? Asking for friend . . .
japa21
@WereBear: Same here. We will survive the virus as a species. Individually, some will, some won’t. The problem is the handling of it.
The same people downplaying this crisis are those that blew Ebola way out of proportion. And con artists can only con people that want to be conned.
randy khan
@delk:
I have a friend with a very similar story. He decided when he was diagnosed that he was going to what he wanted to do with the rest of his life, and turned to art. Then effective treatments became available, so he made it through.
He’s still around, making a living as an artist (which probably astounds him), and has found love with a wonderful man. I know that he sees every day as a gift. Sometimes when I need to remember that I think of him.
Brachiator
Great story, and I can definitely relate to it. I don’t seem to have the panic “gene.”
However, to panic is an obvious and common human reaction. This is what some people do. They are not better or worse than those who keep calm, and they may need comfort or help, not hectoring or judgment.
And with this virus thing, I guess we just have to see what happens and adjust as necessary. The only thing that pisses me off is that we have Trump and his fools in charge, and I have very little confidence in their ability to handle this thing competently.
Hoodie
I’m less worried by the virus itself than I am about the consequential damage caused by panic or even just short term, rational but opportunistic measures that people will take in such a situation, coupled with the inability of our current administration to contemplate, let alone deal with, the situation. For example, for all his professed concern about the stock market, Trump’s denial and bullshitting is exactly the kind of behavior that does not calm the markets. For example, it’s pretty predictable that travel-related industries like the airlines and hospitality will be affected in the near term as individuals and companies cancel travel plans, but there is no understanding as to whether this disruption will last all that long. Instead of lying and paranoid nutjob whinging about Democratic and media conspiracies, you could take measures to assure people that the administration will work with the Fed, Congress and other institution to maintain the solvency of important industries as they ride through what is likely a temporary lull. You could also lean on the exchanges to rein in automatic trading algorithms and speculation on what is going to happen in response to this virus. This type of behavior is exactly what turns the markets into a back alley crap game.
germy
If HRC was the president right now, they’d be blowing this way out of proportion.
J R in WV
@Jane2:
I am pretty sure this is incorrect as a blanket rule, as well as wrong about this novel coronavirus. IN other words, I have seen what appears to be good advice ( from WHO, via an Australian site ) that states clearly that alcohol-based sanitizer (as well as hydrogen peroxide) kills many viruses, including that virus which causes covid-19.
Sadly, vodka is too low in alcohol content to do a good job on the virus involved!! I think 151 rum might work, though… but that’s just a WAG, not medical advice…
MagdaInBlack
Thank you for this.
Im feeling a mixture of dread, resignation, and cynicism, but not panic.
Baud
@germy: Truth.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
This article on Slate, by an actual doctor!, argues that the asymptomatic transmission (dumb guy will now use terms he just read on the internet) suggests that the actual mortality rate is much lower, because a lot of people are infected by the virus, but have no symptoms– they’re essentially carriers, as this dumb guy understands it.
He adds the caveat that the number of cases and fatalities is probably still under-reported
Elizabelle
@Central Planning: I would send a short email out, respond to all, with WHO and CDC guidelines — make them into bullet points.
Don’t even let that idiot parent scoff at handwashing. Of course handwashing is efficacious. Does idiot want to go to a dentist, or gynecologist/GP, or eye doctor who does not wash up?
Ella in New Mexico
@germy:
When the Bible said “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits” everyone thought it was a metaphor.
Apparently in this case Jim Bakker’s fruits actually will be blueberries.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-turned-blue-silver-dies-article-1.1466905
Lapassionara
@Cathie from Canada: This is one time when having a robust, functioning state public health system will be a plus. Trump might muzzle the experts at the CDC, but California health officials will be expected to report accurate figures.
For those of us in red states, we will have to see how our officials respond. I am keeping my over-washed fingers crossed.
Felanius Kootea
Best mistermix thread. My university sent out a message about hand washing, not touching your face, basically following similar precautions as you would for the flu.
Since smoking in the US is greatly reduced, I don’t think it’ll have the same rate of complications as countries where a majority of the men smoke.
kindness
For most folk coronavirus will be another flu. It’s already here. They say 15% have it and never show any symptoms and another group has only slight symptoms. The carriers are already here among us. Mortality is a lot higher. 13x higher. 2% vs 0.14%. So it will have a bigger effect. But not to most folk, just some.
Brachiator
@J R in WV:
I would think that vodka would work great. I generally recommend that you drink two shots…
Maybe three, to be on the safe side.
PsiFighter37
I’m not panicking by any means, but I am definitely going to slowly stock up on less-perishable food items. God knows once the first case of community spread shows up in Manhattan, all bedlam will break loose in the grocery stores.
Cermet
@delk: Thanks for sharing! I wanted to read some uplifting news. Very glad you are doing so very well and hoping for many, many more years of proving that MD wrong.
Kelly
A couple of my cousins belong to a Lake Oswego Oregon (Portland suburb) community band that canceled it’s winter concert this Sunday. Lake O is where the school where a staff member was diagnosed with coronavirus a few days ago. Kinda brings things close to home.
Kelly
I’ve washed my hands a lot during flu season forever. Worked really well until I had grandchildren those charming little disease vectors.
J R in WV
I’ve been reading various comic strips to divert myself from current events. Especially ones that have a plot running for many episodes, by going back in time and paging forward from back in the strip’s timeline.
I’m hitting the 2008 financial events now on one good strip, and the gags are especially good this second time. Non Sequitur by Wiley Miller in particular is using that series of events well. Recommended.
Cermet
This 2% (or 2.4%) death rate has ONLY occured in Wuhan – the rest of China (with its mostly poor health care system) is 0.4%. Yes, four times worse then the flu BUT Chinese are not as healthy (on average) as typical Amerikans due to nutrition and other issues – especially the older generation!
STOP the false posting that Corona’s death rate has been shown to be 2.4% – that is absoultly not true in general. ALSO – that number is highly suspect since it is extremely likely that far more people had Corona but it wasn’t serious enough to be tested. Just fucking stop that alarmist statements without properly noting these critical cavete’s.
Benw
US Olympic marathon trials just started!
Starfish
@trollhattan: This is how I am feeling about it. We were going to go to a music performance for the child on the east coast in early June, and “Should we even go?” It is not a necessary trip.
Amir Khalid
@Benw:
They’ll go on for hours.
Anya
My philosophy on the coronavirus is not to panic and just practice healthy habits. As always, I regularly wash my hands and avoid touching my face before I wash my hands. If people Washed their hands regularly and covered their noses and mouths when they sneeze, a lot of people will be saved. Panic will not do us any good. But also we know that if you’re healthy, your recovery is likely. Like common cold, people with increased risks are people with respiratory illnesses, older people and those with illnesses such as diabetes and high blood pressure. And even then, if we all practiced common health habits the risks will be reduced.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
can stock markets fall on Saturday?
A Ghost To Most
Some people stop livin’
Long before they die
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: get ready for insane stream of consciousness, self-pity and self congratulatory lunacy.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q_xpos5-XY
JR
I honestly don’t see a lot of panic. Prudent caution, for certain. But caution is warranted.
Amir Khalid
@A Ghost To Most:
When quoting Bruce:
Some guys, they just stop living
And start dying little by little, piece by piece
Some guys come home from work and wash up
Then go racing in the street
ninedragonspot
@Cermet: We know that there is an undercount of COVID-linked deaths in China. We don’t know how large that undercount is. Xi is anxious about the toll on the economy. Subordinates are “motivated” to get their figures as low as possible.
There is a long history of the CCP fudging statistics. Censorship was ratcheted up to 11 in February. Journalists are being arrested.
debbie
@PsiFighter37:
I confess I bought four cans of tunafish and a bunch of vitamin water this morning.
Amir Khalid
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
It must be a great sacrifice for Trump to perform an official duty on a Saturday.
MattF
CNBC is reporting that a tax cut is being considered by the administration as a response to the coronavirus.
LongHairedWeirdo
Ridiculous philosophical nitpick: death is never the enemy. Cancer? That’s life gone amok. Murder? That’s caused by a murderer. Pneumonia? That’s fluid in the lungs. Keep going, you’ll find that the enemy is *never*, ever, death. Death is just what happens when something else gets dickish and fatal; it’s the end of the suffering, and the tragedy is how such release was needed – when a body could no longer function, but the soul (if you believe in that) might still be trapped.
Thing is, people don’t “just die”. There is no grim reaper *killing* people. There is war, famine, disease, hatred, and indifference, and these all bring death much, much closer, but blaming death for those things is to ignore the real horror.
We now return you to normal reasoning. Please carry on with any slamming of death you prefer, I just had to make my opinion known, because, it’s the internet, and I didn’t have a cute cat video to share instead.
debbie
@JR:
Around here, it’s more flinging nasty looks at Asians than worrying about germs. ?
HinTN
@trollhattan:
But that’s exactly the point. The mortality rate comes from the reported cases, and yet the virus is highly infectious and easily transmitted. The presumption on my part is that there are FAR more cases that are unreported.
laura
@J R in WV: Wiley Miller is a really Really nice person. We were friends back in the ‘80’s in Santa Rosa where he was the editorial cartoonist for the local paper. He made some personal cartoons for roadie brother the elder when he had testicular cancer. Charles Schultz, Wiley Miller and Stephan Patsis – an embarrassment of riches.
im going to keep harping on the idea of a national unemployment insurance plan as a more effective economic stimulus for the Covid19 until someone with serious economic chops tells me to stop.
debbie
@MattF:
Yeah, that’ll scare the virus away. alright. //
Hoodie
@MattF: Maybe they could look into leeches or bloodletting, too. What a bunch of idiots.
Amir Khalid
@MattF:
Underpants-gnome reasoning at its finest.
Kattails
Some of us have to work in the retail sales business. I have people coughing in front of me all day. I have to handle filthy money. It’s really hard to get away to wash my hands nearly as often as I should under the circumstances, I work next to an automatic door that’s constantly opening & closing & takes its damned time to do it. And I’m a few days away from 69, with asthma. It’s taken me nearly 2 weeks to get rid of the upper respiratory cold I got. I can’t afford to quit this job right now, have no sick days, no backup.
You all might pass around the idea to your friends that taking care of themselves also helps out people who have to be out there keeping the basic stuff running. I have around 200 contacts a day with customers. I just love this “only the elderly and people with compromised immune systems will really get hit” like that’s just a few non-entities instead of self-aware beings.
Anyway, I see from the ads that I need to be more worried about ear wax and fatty livers….
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That seems to be the case with West Nile virus, which arrived in the area perhaps a decade ago and while it wiped out swaths of the bird population, a relatively small number of people were diagnosed with it, some of whom died. The unknown bit is how many asymptomatic people there may be, because it’s not routinely screened for to see who has the antibodies indicating a prior infection. Certainly they outnumber those diagnosed.
trollhattan
@MattF:
Tax cuts, a $200 check for everybody, and WIN buttons. It’s the Republican way.
Baud
@trollhattan:
Whip Infection Now!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@trollhattan: @Baud: WIN buttons for the win!
trollhattan
@Anya:
A general observation is when I began the current jerb about a decade ago [really? shit!] I took light rail because it’s handy. After a three-year wait I got a bike locker and now only light rail it when it’s raining (not so much this year, to be sure).
My number of colds plunged. Between cycle-commuting and getting the annual flu jab, it’s been a pretty successful accidental strategy.
ninedragonspot
@Kattails: Upvoting this.
trollhattan
@Baud: @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Obama used to have a good riff about Republicans solving everything with a tax cut. “Sick, get a tax cut. Bad roads? Tax cut. Hurricane? Tax cut for that.” God, I miss him.
MagdaInBlack
@Kattails:
I’m right there with you. A few years younger, slightly fewer customer and vendor contacts, but the rest, Yup ?
eta: as well as the liver and earwax ads ?
Cermet
@trollhattan: I pointed this out early last week; also, West Nile was deadly in the Middle East yet not in the West. Again, health difference due to economic conditions is a huge factor in many illnesses. That does not mean Corona virus doesn’t and will not kill in greater numbers than the common flu here in the U.S. It does mean, these huge death rates are highly unlikely. Even for Wuhan, that number is likely inflated (due to it being mild in many people. Not intentional mis-leading by authorities.)
PsiFighter37
@MattF: Fiscal stimulus (not in the form of tax cuts, which are generally the most inefficient) is not a terrible idea if the market craters, but I’d like them to explain where the money comes from after they blew their wad on the corporate giveaway at the end of 2017.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
This is a pretty fucking scary thread
this part especially relevant to the US
Barbara
@HinTN: There are several things that can enhance the disruptive power of a disease: death rate (how many), who is dying (young, old, already sick), and how many people need intensive medical support to survive, and for how long. The last of these is what seems to be a standout for Covid-19. Which also means the death rate will fluctuate more than normal based on accessibility to care. That might be why Iran seems to be faring worse.
zhena gogolia
@Kattails:
Great comment. I wish we had a less selfish culture.
I heard a young woman in Stop & Shop saying to a friend, “They don’t really know what flu virus to vaccinate against, so I don’t even bother.” I said, “You should bother.” She gave me the dirtiest look. I wish I’d been more diplomatic. ALL PEOPLE THINK ABOUT IS HOW IT AFFECTS THEIR OWN ASSES. That’s how we got Trump.
Barbara
@PsiFighter37: But the reason for the slow down is not going to change with stimulus. People are still afraid to travel and supply disruptions are still going to occur, (though hopefully ameliorate soon) regardless of how many people are clamoring to buy more stuff.
MattF
Conspiracy theory, comin’ right up:
https://twitter.com/gregyoung/status/1233174986925453312/photo/1
chopper
@Cathie from Canada:
an extra month would have been nice, but trump squandered it.
Hoodie
@PsiFighter37: One reason why tax cuts are ridiculous in a situation like this that they do not target the areas that are specifically impacted, do little or nothing to replace demand that should only temporarily be lost, and thus often end up rewarding people who do not need them. People are not going to take their tax cut and go on a vacation to Italy. Fiscal stimulus that replaces demand is far more effective. For example, some sort of public works project that helps the secondary suppliers for industries that are specifically effected.
chopper
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
well, that’s good and bad. if true, it means the CFR is lower. however, it also means the reproduction number is much higher, so the number of fatalities may wash out to about the same because there will be many asymptomatic people spreading it far and wide.
asymptomatic spreaders means we’re basically boned as to containing this, barring a widespread, effective vaccine and draconian containment measures like what china is doing.
Steeplejack (phone)
@bemused:
Consumer Reports is not currently rating thermometers. The Wirecutter likes the Vicks ComfortFlex for $10.
PsiFighter37
@Barbara: Stimulus could help things get up to speed once the virus passes. That said, it’s too early to predict the fallout, although China’s purchasing manufacturer’s index (PMI) that came out late last night was a terrible reading – 35.7, which is the lowest reading ever (even lower than the financial crisis). So…if that outcome happens everywhere, we are looking at a very dire situation, especially since corporate debt is way, WAY higher than it was 12 years ago.
delk
And… first US death reported.
Central Planning
@Brachiator: I’m willing to test tequila to see if it has the same protective benefits.
Hoodie
@chopper: I think most experts think that the only real chance for containment was when the disease initially surfaced in Wuhan, and the Chinese were unable to get on it soon enough (for whatever reasons). We’re likely more in the “slow it down” phase to buy time for building up of testing and treatment resources so we can reduce the transmission and fatality rates. This can limit the number of deaths and allow us time to build up herd immunity through more people getting less serious cases and, eventually (hopefully), the rest getting vaccinated.
MoCA Ace
@BGinCHI: Better to spend our energies loving each other, being productive, and finding ways to burn the GOP to the ground.
Yes! While seemingly inconsistent, all of these actions serve to make the world a better place.
Steeplejack (phone)
Hee-hee, the Dems whipped out an unlabeled map on Pompeo at his hearing this week.
chopper
@Hoodie:
it was pretty unlikely that china was going to be able to contain it in wuhan, a city bigger than NYC. they certainly did slow it down for a bit.
Central Planning
@PsiFighter37: Yep. I don’t see how a tax cut is going to help all the people that get laid off when the economy tanks. It will just help the wealthy.
trollhattan
@Central Planning:
My ongoing IPA experiment continues. I can report so far, so good.
Central Planning
@trollhattan: Excellent!
I have to show some self-restraint until I get home from my wife’s work event this evening.
trollhattan
@Steeplejack (phone):
I have to award ALL the Quatloos for that.
M31
That’s a great post, thank you!
M31
I see no one recommended a thermometer yet, so I will — I have one from “Thermoworks” and it’s great. Their normal models “Thermapen” are pretty expensive ($75 +) but I have one that is pretty small called a Thermopop (looks just like a lollipop) and it reacts very fast (2 seconds or so) and they have a great reputation for accuracy. I’ve made candy, yoghurt, steaks cooked to just exactly rare, etc. and it seems accurate. LOL you can take your termperature with it but the end is really sharp so I don’t recommend it.
They only sell through their website and indeed have warnings about counterfeits on ebay and amazon, so do go direct if you do.
They have good sales from time to time, as well — I bought a bunch of these Thermopops for $20/each a while back and ration them out as presents.
zhena gogolia
@trollhattan:
Pompeo’s performance in that session was supremely disgusting.
J R in WV
@M31:
I bought a Braun Thermoscan when wife got out of the hospital years ago. It samples one’s temp from your ear drum and uses a disposable plastic cover for sanitary purposes. I also got a Blood Oxygen Level device, which also reports pulse rate.
Wife lost one lobe of her left lung toward the end of her septic shock adventure. So her temp and BO2 level are both indicative of whether she needs to go to the doc’s office or ER.
ETA to add a little detail.
robmassing
Well said. Thank you
WaterGirl
@Steeplejack (phone): That is totally awesome! Do we know if he was a) able to identify what embassies were under imminent threat and b) could he find the countries on a blank map?
What an asshole.
HumboldtBlue
Soccer league matches in Italy died this weekend after the entire slate was postponed indefinitely due to virus concerns (what am I supposed to use, Corona or Corvid?).
They have already been playing in empty stadiums in Italy and Japan and now the status of major international tournaments — Olympics, Euro 2020 (bi-annual European national soccer tourney and immensely popular and lucrative) in particular — may soon be headed into uncharted waters and the possibility of postponement of both now seems less than far-fetched.
And we have President fucknozzle in charge.
PIGL
Thanks for this post, mistermix.
I’m very sorry to hear about your mother. I wish the best outcome for her and all of you.
Emma
Agree, although WA has just reported its first fatality at a hospital 15-20 minutes from me and in the school district I work in :D a high school in the district north of us closed to disinfect yesterday, so now wondering if schools in my district are going to disinfect on Monday… such interesting times we live in.