.@JoeBiden has served our country with dignity and we need him now more than ever. I will do everything in my power to help elect him the next President of the United States. pic.twitter.com/DbB2fGWpaa
— Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) March 8, 2020
I know from the comments, there are still a few of us mourning her exit from the race.
I hope this paves the way for a VP slot for her.
Meanwhile, I’m crabby as hell. Poor Scout was up from about 4 am to 5 am vomiting. No idea why or what triggered it. She seems fine otherwise. I believe she may have just eaten a bunch of tree bark.
I will try and have a respite thread later – I have some cute duck video to share.
Open thread
Baud
Yay!
oldster
Good?
As a big Liz fan, I would rather she get the VP nod.
But Harris would be almost as good, and it would free up Liz for a different role.
Roger Moore
AG. I really want to see her be the AG who cleans house of all the filth Trump has left there.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Kewl – I’d still like to see Biden-Harris 2020!
oldster
I meant, “Good!”
not a question.
JPL
Poor Scout and I hope she’s feeling better soon. Last week I gave my mutt a bath at four in the morning because he had an accident. It did last two days so hope Scout doesn’t have a repeat tonight. Rest when you can.
Omnes Omnibus
Okay, I’ll do this again. Yeah, two fucking people in their 70s on the ticket. That is brilliant.
germy
JMG
For what I hope is the last time I repeat. Warren has no desire to be VP. She MIGHT take Treasury Secretary, but probably her hope is to get a committee chair if Dems retake the Senate.
germy
@Omnes Omnibus: Biden has said we need Warren in the senate.
Jerzy Russian
@oldster:
Which is pronounced “good factorial”.
Betty Cracker
The timing is interesting, but here’s an explanation (The Times):
Also from Harris’s statement about the endorsement:
Good for her.
NotMax
And the general public gives out with a hearty “Harris? Who dat?”
:)
I was staunchly in her camp when she entered. Now would like to see her finish at least one complete term in the Senate and firm up contacts she will need later on should she seek office elsewhere.
TaMara (HFG)
@Omnes Omnibus: Please be kind. We are all on the same team here.
Shalimar
I decided my one vote for Biden is not going to make any anti-Sanders difference even in Florida where Sanders will get trounced, so I voted for Warren yesterday. Harris would have been my 2nd choice if i got 2 votes.
PsiFighter37
@Betty Cracker: I also don’t understand why Harris would endorse Biden ahead of the CA primary, when it was quite evident that, given the mail-in ballots, it was more likely Sanders was going to win anyways.
It’ll be interesting to see how they do on the same stage tomorrow. Good chance that ends up being the ticket, IMO.
eclare
Good to hear, I also hope she gets the nod for VP.
Omnes Omnibus
@germy: I know that. It still won’t stop people from wanting her to be selected as VP.
PsiFighter37
@Shalimar: That is so stupid. Voting for someone AFTER they have dropped out serves no purpose at all. You might as well have not bothered voting.
PeakVT
Bad to have two people over 70, she’s a great senator, MA has a Repuke governor, and like it or not Biden needs to be thinking about viability in 2024.
Of the ex-candidates, Harris is probably the best choice.
MattF
Harris was my first choice pretty much since the start of primary season, though I was tempted by Warren for a while. So, good.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I agree, and since we are where we are, I’ll make this critique one last time.
It astounds me that neither Harris nor Warren nor Amy thought it worthwhile, while they were struggling to get voters and distinguish themselves, to mention Hillary Clinton’s name and rally the anger of her supporters.
Maybe it’s just me, because to the media doesn’t seem to ask this question, but any campaign post mortem should ask why.
Betty Cracker
@Shalimar: I’m surprised there hasn’t been more polling in Florida. Maybe they just gave up? Last poll I saw (post Super Tuesday) had Biden at 61% and Sanders at 12%.
Jerzy Russian
@JMG:
We can assume that Warren wanted to be the president, since she ran for the nomination. We have seen there are two ways to become president: (i) you run for the nomination and eventually are elected; (ii) you are the VP and the president leaves office. Possibility (i) seems unlikely for Warren unless the two frontrunners have to drop out owing to old age. If Warren really wants to be the president, then why not consider possibility (ii)?
WereBear
I liked her a lot, sorry she didn’t gain traction, and hope her prosecutorial chops are used for good.
I try to not second guess these kinds of decisions. Especially when we have the luxury of hindsight when we make them, and the decision-makers do not.
germy
@Baud:
Are you sure that never happened?
JMG
@Baud: Any positive mention of Hillary Clinton would immediately earn any candidate, but especially a woman, months of unrelenting bad press from our “elite” political media.
Baud
@germy: I’m not aware of any.
@JMG: And are these candidates better off now?
germy
@PsiFighter37:
No dumber than saying “I really like Warren, agree with everything she says, would love to see her as president, but I’m not voting for her in this primary because I don’t think she has a chance of winning.”
Shalimar
@PsiFighter37: They make me go through more than a year of this horrible campaign before i can finally vote, then the person i think was by far the best candidate gets my vote whether she is still asking for it or not. It’s not like she endorsed one of the 3 remaining candidates.
debbie
@germy:
“I was the dog.” ❤️
germy
@debbie: Bloomberg was the taco.
Baud
@Shalimar:
Haha. Tulsi’s still in it. Take that, women!
TaMara (HFG)
Okay, anyone watch SNL last night? I tuned in for Warren, fast-forwarded through most of the remainder of the show – but caught Daniel Craig snubber Warren at the end. It was weird.
lamh36
@Betty Cracker: I said way back before Super Tuesday that Kamala Harris would not endorse until after Super Tuesday and seeing where thing fell with Warren.
As I said then, she has always been considerate of other candidates, especially the other female candidates, when when she didn’t always get the same consideration in return.
Ex..Steyer campaign stealing her SC data. Could have maybe should have gone all in on him for that but didn’t ??♀️
hueyplong
Between Harris and Schiff, one for VP and the other for AG. Both would do Nowell, and no threat that their replacements would be GOPers.
Shalimar
@Betty Cracker: That was the last poll i saw too, 4-way with Warren and Bloomberg still in it. I assume them dropping out helps Biden more than Bernie but will get Bernie over 15%. Who knows with how volatile it has been though.
oldgold
This morning I watched Fareed Zakaria’s show on CNN.
The show featured a long and thoughtful interview of Hillary Clinton. Damn, is she impressive. As Whittier said long ago: “For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: ‘It might have been!’”
Part of me wishes she would have run this year. I know the practical problems that would have presented, but …… I think she would win a rematch and we would end up with a brilliant leader.
I think Joe probably wins, but he is limited. I will vote for a restoration(Joe), but fear he does not have the capacity to lead us boldly into the future.
MattF
@Baud: Is ‘Troll’ a gender?
Betty Cracker
@Baud: My guess is they didn’t see much upside to it. Like JMG said at #27, it would send the media down all sorts of unhelpful rabbit holes. It might alienate Democrats who aren’t Clinton fans. And probably most importantly, it would call attention to the elephant it the room: fear that 2016 PTSD would scare voters off supporting any woman.
Warren obliquely took that last bull by the horns when she urged people to not let fear dictate how they vote. You could take it a couple of different ways: fear of trying to achieve significant change, fear of a 2016 repeat.
Maybe naming that fear instead of letting voters fill in the blanks themselves would have been more effective; it’s a good question in hindsight given the outcome. But I don’t find the strategy inexplicable at all.
debbie
@lamh36:
Hey, wanted to thank you for all your information the other night. It took me a while to catch up on all my thread-reading, but I wanted to let you know it was very appreciated.
debbie
@Baud:
What would be the point? Rush would have latched on to it faster than Bailey could grab a taco, and besides, sisterhood does not require a public parade.
lamh36
@JMG: I wish people would stop doinf it to Warren with the VP thing and Harris won’t the AG thing.
It’s already been reported Barack Obama all but offered Harris the AG position and she declined it. If Harris wanted to be AG she would be.
Folks need to stop with the AG thing as if it’s a conciliation prize or something….esp since if she wanted it she’d have had it already ??♀️
germy
@Betty Cracker: Many people who worked on HRC’s campaign joined Harris’s campaign staff (including Harris’s sister).
(An old article from January)
Miss Bianca
@Baud: I am there too. Surely there’s a bunch of us out there, HRC voters who have suffered the torments of hell watching Trump fuck everything up, *and* knowing that we were brought to this point by 40 years of pointed, deliberate, anti-HRC misogyny. Including from Senator Sanders. ‘Twould have been nice to have her name invoked and that passionate fury ignited.
PsiFighter37
@germy: Yes, so let’s spite everyone who may have voted that way by just tossing your vote away in the primary.
I usually don’t get feisty over this kind of stuff, but this is really dumb. In 2004, in my first primary, I voted for Kerry in the NY primary, even though I was a huge Dean supporter and he was still on the ballot – but had dropped out. Even at 18 years old, I got that making meaningless gestures was stupid.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I would agree that the risk wouldn’t be worth it if they were front runners. But they mostly weren’t (except Warren briefly).
It also seems to me that if you’re going to talk about sexism and misogyny in this primary, you have to talk about how those things are reinforced by making Hillary invisible. Why should voters take a chance if the candidates won’t?
I’m frustrated because I would have preferred each of these women to Biden, and they didn’t run their campaign the way I would have liked. :-\
MomSense
@Baud:
Harris definitely did.
Baud
@debbie:
The point would have been rallying voters. Any candidate that is afraid of Rush doesn’t deserve our vote.
debbie
@TaMara (HFG):
WTH happened to Weekend’s face? He had that Omar-type scar for the first song, but I fell asleep after the news updated.
Baud
@MomSense: Do you have a link? I completely missed it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@TaMara (HFG):
? ? He gave her a big loud shout-out
It was a pretty lame show, overall, I think Warren was the best thing about it. McKinnon’s half-assed Laura Ingram is proof, if more were needed, that she shouldn’t have right of first refusal on every freakin’ impression. If you don’t get Ingram’s nasally snarl, you’re doing it wrong. Melissa Villasenor is said to be an amazing impressionist, but they always seem to forget she’s in the cast
Chris Johnson
@PsiFighter37: Not at all. Votes are counted. Knowing that it’s gonna be Biden, his job becomes looking out over the electorate and figuring out what it wants.
Voting for Warren in places where it’s not going to hand the win to Bernie is about the most positive way left that you can register a progressive vote (or a vote for a woman, or a vote for big structural change that we’re getting anyhow, like it or not).
Also, voting for Warren as a write in, under those conditions, says ‘I’m NOT voting for the Bernie campaign, but those values he claims to be all about? Yeah, those.”
debbie
@Baud:
Trump’s more than a sufficient rallying cry.
Han
@Baud:
So you’re suggesting they should have banged their head against a wall, since they were going to end up with a headache anyway?
Betty Cracker
@lamh36: I didn’t know PBO offered Harris the AG position! Not surprised though. I think she’s the best VP pick Biden could possibly make.
Shalimar
@PsiFighter37: Nah. Writing in Jimmy Stewart because Clinton, Bush and Perot all sucked was stupid. This is just a primary where it is already obvious who will win. Not even in the top 100 of stupid things I have done.
PsiFighter37
@Chris Johnson: The justifications being given to voting for Warren after she dropped out are ridiculous. I had no issue with folks voting for her in Super Tuesday – she was still in the race, even if the chances were marginal – but now, after she is out? Dumb, dumb, dumb. These silly rationales are the same ones used by the Berners and firebaggers to justify voting for Jill Stein, Gary Johnson, Nader, etc.
For a blog that seems to be filled with people who generally have their heads screwed on straight, this stance of voting for a candidate after she has dropped out makes no sense.
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I think she nails the attitude and facial expressions and makes Ingraham look the total fool. Works for me.
Baud
@debbie:
In a Democratic primary, that’s not a distinguishing factor.
lamh36
Biden and Kamala will be in Detroit tomorrow.
Jessie Jackson will endorse Bernie in Michigan tomorrow.
??♀️I don’t think that’s the get Bernie folks think it is.
Jackson was born in SC and some folks still have high regards for him there. A Jackson vote in SC was their missed opportunity.
2hrs after posted that Harris endorsement already had 1 million views and counting.
evodevo
@JMG: Yes, I hope she stays there – much more effective than a VP slot where she’d be wasted. Would love to see her questions in one of the many investigations the Trump regime has earned…and has been noted, MA has a repuke gov who would appoint a GOPer in her place. Not good.
Baud
@Han:
I’m suggesting something that might have worked, since we know what they did didn’t work. I’m suggesting that it’s odd that no one thought it might be worth a shot.
Omnes Omnibus
Just like voting for Jill Stein symbolized that someone opposed Trump even if they couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Clinton.
debbie
@Baud:
Also, why would you invoke a mishegas when you’re trying to project Winning? Are you hearing the GOP bring up GWBJr. at all?
MomSense
@Baud:
Here is just one example. Note the first comment.
https://twitter.com/kamalaharris/status/1178341672826146817?s=21
Eolirin
@Omnes Omnibus: There’s a huge difference doing that in a primary and doing that in the general and you know it.
lamh36
@Betty Cracker: According to Bakari Sellers who was an official Harris backer and surrogate, PBO def was interested in Harris as AG.
Bit I’d bet being a new Senator and already making waves, along other aspirations it was a no go.??♀️
david
If Crazy Uncle Joe had run 4 years ago, we wouldn’t have what we have today.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I was already pretty much all in for Biden when Harris announced, but I’m still glad she endorsed. And I’ll say again, if she does agree to be his Veep, she’ll be taking one for the team. He needs her more than she needs him.
Are the people who want Warren as Veep thinking in terms of Biden not making it through four years? Cause I really think we– we here at the almost-10,000th-ranked political blog, in the Dem party and on the broader left– need to pay more attention to the other branches of gov’t.
Baud
@MomSense:
Thank you! See that wasn’t hard. I wish I’d seen more of that.
Shalimar
@Chris Johnson: Warren isn’t even a write-in. The ballots were printed months ago. I didn’t go name by name, but Castro was still on it and there were roughly a dozen of them. You just fill in the circle for her instead of Biden or Sanders.
Brachiator
@JMG:
I suppose that Warren can be very effective if she remains in the Senate, but no one can say what she might do if offered the VP spot in the future.
lamh36
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I def agree. He needs her more than she needs him at this point.
Plus her Senate seat is safer from a Republican appointment than Warren’s is, right?
Shalimar
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s a primary. Trump isn’t on the ballot.
Eolirin
@lamh36: She was still CA’s AG when the offer was made if I’m remembering an interview with her correctly. But probably had her eyes on the Senate even then.
Baud
@debbie:
So Warren, Harris, and Amy are now failures, and I shouldn’t listen to what have to say about sexism, and people should now shun them?
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus:
I lobbied for that to make the cut for a rotating tag. Alas, I was not successful. In this round anyway.
lamh36
@Eolirin: ah thx. I was trying to remember the timeline and i think ur right she was still AG
Chris Johnson
@PsiFighter37: No, pursuing Great Man Theory is stupid. Especially now, when the Republicans are all-in on it, and are paying a horrible price.
INDICATING your wishes is a gesture. Raising your hand to be counted is a gesture. We are electing public servants. Right now, their inability to understand what their electorate wants is a crisis (let’s say we’re talking about Republicans, OK? But this is the message of the left, and look at what’s happened)
We are not powerless peasants to be herded into adulation of some Great (White, Old) Man who decides everything. Hell, the whole reason Biden is a good choice is that he will NOT become a king and rule everything himself: black voters know he listens. He listened to Clyburn. He listened to, and served in the administration of, Obama. He’s proven over and over that he understands we’re a team, and a team with a mighty big bench.
It’s fine to make sure he wins the nomination. Right now, his talents are what’s needed because they are community-oriented talents and because he can listen and reach out and connect with people. (compare with Bernie)
But the whole point is HE IS REACHING OUT. The guy is listening, that is his strongest point. There is no better way to demonstrate the size and determination of the Warren faction than to write her in and continue to vote for her, wherever that’s (a) possible and (b) not risking a Sanders win. Imagine if she still picked up the occasional delegate, even with Sanders RIGHT THERE and demanding the whole Left as his rightful due. What would that say? Who would Biden be listening closely to? Who would Pelosi be listening closely to?
PsiFighter37
@david: I don’t think Biden would have beat Hillary head-on in the primary. That said, I also think that Bernie would have gotten no traction, so Hillary would have been far less damaged than she was heading into the general election.
It didn’t happen, though, so speculating on the ‘what if’ scenario is a waste of time – so no need to tumble further down this particular rabbit hole.
Omnes Omnibus
@Eolirin: Explain the difference then. I really don’t see it. Tamara asked me to be nice, so I will stop there.
Princess Leia
Would love to see HRC as AG. It would be epic.
debbie
@Baud:
That’s a leap I am not following. Sorry.
Baud
@debbie: You said don’t associate with losers, even if they were the victims of evil.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
this man cannot not be an asshole. “Senator Sanders, why is your movement so toxic?” “It really is just a mystery to me.”
I hope he pissed off Klobuchar and she goes all snarky on his ass.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
He’s the political equivalent of an anti-vaxer or a truther.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I agree Biden needs Harris more than Harris needs Biden, but I don’t see it as taking one for the team at all, not with the actuarial realities of the situation.
JPL
@Princess Leia: That would be awesome!
PsiFighter37
If someone wants to understand why Bernie Sanders cannot get black people to support him, read the NYT article about his townhall with Cornel West. Apparently, the man is so uncomfortable talking to black voters about policies they care about, that his prepared speech was scrapped, and Wilmer was reduced to being the moderator asking questions to West and others. What a goddamn joke. It’s plainly evident that Bernie is either a racist, or talking about race makes him very, very uncomfortable for some reason. Maybe because it challenges his stupid fucking worldview that everything is an economic problem, and that black folks being enslaved / treated like second-class citizens for centuries didn’t have something to do with it.
Another Scott
@debbie: It was makeup/plastic bandage. It seems to be part of his “tour” – he’s been made up like that since at least January.
I don’t know the story behind it (for some reason I can’t hear the lyrics in pop songs any more. :-/)
Cheers,
Scott.
Sab
@Omnes Omnibus: I love Liz and I am with you. Too old to be VP. Cheney we hoped he died before Pres. Didn’t happen. Don’t go threre again. Not a good way to run a country. Get a pres and Veep both good to go.
WaterGirl
@debbie: Do you recall what thread that was? I was looking for it last night and didn’t find it.
Chris Johnson
@PsiFighter37: They REPRESENT us.
I think it’s you that’s confused. These are public servants. They are representatives. We communicate with them by voting (and bugging them). Casting a vote is the biggest and most significant way to communicate to them that there’s a distinct faction capable of voting, and a primary is where they take stock of the electorate.
Nobody is suggesting writing in Warren in the general election. She would slap you, and her dog would bite you. This is a primary and it’s still happening. This shows who’s out there: it’s a kind of a census. That is ongoing.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I hope we all live long enough to see Hillary Clinton get her due as a historical figure, let alone a party stalwart for decades. She’s a personal hero of mine, and I believe some day she’ll have Susan B. Anthony-level stature among feminists. But the grubby politics of the day complicate the picture right now. It sucks, but there it is.
debbie
@Baud:
That is not at all what I said.
Eolirin
@Omnes Omnibus: In a primary we’re arguing over who gets to represent us. Our choices are between people who broadly share our views. The opportunity cost for a protest vote or not voting at all is completely different than when it’s a contest that has more meaningful policy consequences.
As a sort of opposite dilemma from not liking either of the candidates left that’s still illustrative, I couldn’t decide between Hillary and Obama in 2008, so I didn’t vote for either. I could afford to not cast a vote because I didn’t need to be invested in the outcome. Either would be fine.
Biden is about to wrap this up. The only people who really need to be engaged with voting for him are the ones who either actually support him or actively oppose Sanders. Everyone needs to vote for him in the general though. The stakes matter there. A protest vote there gets us a bad outcome. A protest vote here does not.
lamh36
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: notice who wasnt mentioned in this clip? Why? Cause those voters he still thinks he can get . So he won’t shit on EW supporters just yet. Unless or until they break for Biden…
Miss Bianca
I have to admit that I have been dreaming of a Biden/Harris ticket. I don’t know whether that’s logical, practical, a big vote-getter or what – I just like her so much, and I think she would be a *ferocious* ally on the trail. And in the WH.
Funny about Jesse Jackson and Sanders, tho’ not that surprising I guess, really. Fun fact: I actually voted for Jesse J in the ’88 primary, I believe. *And* donated to his campaign! I still lived in Michigan at the time.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: Yeah, me too. We’ll obviously never know if my idea would have worked. Like I said, we are where we are, and time only moves forward (even if societies don’t.)
@debbie: You analogized her to W.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: catching up on Joy Reid and I just saw a little bit longer version of this clip. Actual voters are completely absent from his political analysis. There is only Bernie, Billionaires, and “The Establishment”
pamelabrown53
@lamh36:
I think Kamala would be the perfect VP pick. She’d bring energy, charisma and pizazz. Plus, she’s definitely qualified.
debbie
@WaterGirl:
Here’s the thread.
(And if I didn’t link correctly, it’s the Friday night thread about the cancelation of SXSW 2020.)
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Bernie had a shit-ton more money going into Super Tuesday than Biden did.
debbie
@Baud:
FFS, I did not.
Baud
@debbie: Explain what you meant by comment #65 then.
WaterGirl
@Eolirin:
A week ago, Bernie’s peeps were saying the same thing. With all the cheating and stealing, we can’t assume anything.
Think about the Brexit people who were sure Brexit wouldn’t pass, so they either didn’t bother to vote or they voted the opposite to make a statement.
If we can’t figure out that, this time around, every vote matters, it does not bode well for us.
Wanderer
I wonder if Senator Warren could become Senate Majority Leader?
Haydnseek
@Baud: I can only surmise that they were suffering from the Gorona virus. Al Gore treated Bill Clinton like he was radioactive, much to his detriment if the extensive post election analysis is to be believed.
Amir Khalid
The good news is that the Democratc party is uniting, and not behind the Vermontese blowhard phony.
Omnes Omnibus
@Eolirin: I will just say that I disagree with that take.
Eolirin
@Baud: I think one of the interesting aspects of Biden’s success here is that he did it without any of the things that are generally viewed as important to elections. No money, no ads, no ground game.
I expect the circumstances here are somewhat unique so I’m not sure how much we can draw from it. But it’s interesting.
Baud
@Wanderer:
I think you either want her in charge of the Senate or you want be her pushing her policy ideas. No one can do both effectively.
germy
@PsiFighter37: He went on the Breakfast Club and seemed comfortable discussing the issues.
Chris Johnson
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Bernie’s doing the thing I don’t like. He figures he will be the Great Man and the point of the peasants is not to think, but to rally behind him and his greatness.
This is separate from his leftist politics, and is part of what turns me off about him. He talks a good game of ‘Not Me, Us’ but his actions don’t measure up: he and his people aren’t building stuff, they are behaving like it’s a winner-take-all race with no consequences other than winning and losing. And it shits all over the Democratic community, to be acting that way. Compare to the actions of Clyburn, and the response of Biden who’s cooperating with what Clyburn thinks is necessary.
Governing is LIKE THAT. With or without Russian backing, I don’t see Bernie being good enough at governing. His notion of a Veep choice will further illustrate that (or, maybe, end up being too little too late?)
Baud
@Eolirin: Absolutely. It’s historical IMHO, even though, as you say, the circumstances are unique.
WaterGirl
@debbie: Thank you! I had remembered that it was called Un-Fun or something like that, but when I was skimming the titles, I must have ignored it because I didn’t think it had been a virus thread.
I wanted to share it with my niece. thanks again
Baud
@Haydnseek:
Fair comparison.
germy
Clyburn has taken more than $1 million in pharma money in a decade, far surpassing peers
Eolirin
@WaterGirl: Is just a primary. Unless you’re actively opposed to a Sanders win or actively in favor of a Biden win, then no, it doesn’t matter what your vote is.
Even if things flip, if neither Sanders or Biden are appealing to you, it doesn’t matter who wins. As long as you vote for them over Trump you can afford to not vote for either in the primary.
JPL
It was Bernie Day on the morning shows. At one point, I tried to stream CNN and Sirota was on Brian Stelter’s show. The only escape was to turn it off.
Betty Cracker
@Eolirin: You’re correct about the unique circumstances, IMO. Bloomberg temporarily knocked Biden out of first place in FL and other places with ads, across voter demographics too, so ads work. But voters just as quickly quit Bloomberg for Biden when the latter started looking like the safer bet (thanks, Senator Warren). This will all be studied for generations, if the republic survives. Whoever came up with the idea to corral endorsements from Buttigieg, Beto and Klobuchar and announce it before Super Tuesday and generate all that free media will be hailed as a genius! :)
lamh36
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: oh and nothing from Amy K camp yet…but Pete’s camp has responded
Omnes Omnibus
@germy: Do you have a point you would like to make?
HalfAssedHomesteader
It seems unlikely to me that he would pick a senator. We have a reasonable — but by no means certain — chance of taking the Senate this time. Removing a senator from the pool raises the risk even if she is from CA. I think a governor is more likely. Jay Inslee? Someone passionate about climate policy could (theoretically) give a bump for younger voters.
Baud
@lamh36: A little weaker than I would have liked.
WaterGirl
@Wanderer: Why do we think that being great at planning would make someone a great Majority Leader?
germy
@debbie: I think the premise that no female presidential candidates mentioned Hillary Clinton is a faulty one.
What is said at a rally is far more than what is reported (if it’s reported at all) the next morning by the media.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I’m early voting this coming week, and pretty much all the candidates names are on the D ballot. I was a Harris supporter, than for Warren. I’ll vote for Biden. Voting is too important to use it to “send a message.” As someone once said, call Western Union.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Yes, that’s great. Now if I only live to see the election.
germy
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s not an article from jacobin or the intercept.
Sab
She was always my number two.
Now if you can just get my tuxedo cat to not eat my rottweiler. Sounds improbable but could happen.
WaterGirl
@Eolirin:
Biden is the democrat. Bernie is the socialist who will be tarred with that, rightfully or not, during the general. To me it’s a no brainer.
Gvg
@lamh36: it’s not a consolation prize, it ‘s a needs of the country job. It hasn’t been a step to higher office in the past, true, but we currently have a bunch of criminals in office, to a much worse degree than even Bush. That makes considering her for the job or her thinking about the job different than when Obama offered. We aren’t wishing she would do this for her sake, we are wishing she would for our sake. It would probably be a sacrifice for her but then again we are all in this country together and not cleaning up past internal messes in many people here, has lead to a time of danger to us all.
it means she impressed us and we think she could do this particular thing really well.
it may be that there are other people out there that would be even better but we have never heard of them. Running for President gets a lot of publicity. I hope there are lots of good prosecutors out there because it’s a really big job that needs lots of helping.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
So the physician who was put in charge of Housing and Urban Development because “urban” is now being asked to help clean up the mess about an epidemic, and he clearly has no more idea what’s going on than Pence or Azar because of the demented Beast in the Oval Office.
And you guys were all too tasteful and mature to do Diaper Don this weekend? I salute you.
FelonyGovt
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He’s pissed because he thought the anti-Bernie vote would continue to be divided and he could coast into the nomination.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: I doubt anyone could have done the except Barack Obama.
Baud
@germy:
I obviously can’t follow every word uttered by every candidate. MomSemse found a single tweet I hadn’t seen.
lamh36
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The “establishment” is Bernie camp new way if shitting in Black voters in a less directly racist way than just the ole “the Southern Black vote dont count anyway” they used to use
germy
@Baud: No, and yet
Eolirin
@WaterGirl: I personally agree. Lots of people don’t. I think it’s fair that they don’t.
AnotherBruce
@Princess Leia: Oh God, I know it won’t happen, but I got all tingley thinking about it.
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I know. McKinnon’s impressions are all the same.
lamh36
@germy: this ain’t gonna getxha the response ya may think it will ?
but hey go on ahead I guess
Baud
@germy:
So prove me wrong if it’s so obvious. That is, if you’re finished posting information about Clyburn.
germy
@WaterGirl:
I agree. I think he’d be beaten badly in the general election. But I’m glad some of his ideas have seeped into the mainstream, into the hands of hopefully more competent politicians.
lamh36
@Baud: right but it’s Lis Smith so I expect nothing more of her??♀️
JPL
@WaterGirl: Same. I wasn’t going to vote early, but now that the field is decided, I’m planning on voting tomorrow.
germy
@lamh36:
In this place? It’s easy to predict the response.
Another Scott
@germy:
DesMoines Register (from May 2019):
(Emphasis added.)
Yup. Hillary was always there. Elizabeth didn’t feel the need to beat people over the head about it. And didn’t feel the need to give Politico and FTFNYT an easy cudgel to beat her up and take the focus off her message.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
germy
@Baud: Prove to me the candidates ran away from HRC. That seemed to be your point.
WaterGirl
@germy: @lamh36:
Can you guys tell me why we are supposed to care if Rep. Clyburn took money from big pharma? Is that supposed to make him suspect for some reason? Or make his role in SC suspect? Or make his recommendation on VP suspect?
As far as I can tell, anyone shitting on Clyburn or on black voters in order to help Bernie has their head on backwards.
Suzanne
@Eolirin: I have my personal suspicions that, in the social media era, “ground game” is just not that important anymore. I have done a lot—A LOT—of knocking on doors and making personal phone calls for candidates in the past 15 years or so. I don’t think I have ever actually made contact with a person who honestly didn’t know about a candidate’s positions or who was running. (I met lots of people who didn’t know where their polling place was or how to get on the PEVL, though.) I am sure that this is because canvassing and phone call efforts are directed to those who are already likely to vote for the candidate.
I also did a fair amount of nonpartisan voter registration, and my experience was that the people who weren’t registered already were either undocumented or were ineligible to vote for another reason (probably a felony)…. or just plain did not give a shit and nothing I could ever say would change that. There is a widespread rumor here that registering to vote means you will get called for jury service, so I have met multiple people who will not register because they think they won’t get called.
Baud
@germy:
My proof is what I witnessed. Which was nothing. Your turn.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@zhena gogolia: I should say her Warren and RBG and Merkel all get to me. Her Sessions is pretty good, but I think when they gave her Rudi it was just “Hey! I bet it will piss him off to be played by a woman!”
Jumping topics: I don’t think it’s just the word “socialist” that would make Bernie radioactive in the general. The honeymoon in Russia, getting kicked out of the commune, his… problematic essays… all that just contributes to the general impression of the weirdness of the man. What would kill him in swing states and suburbs is a campaign that is essentially shouting: “Yes I’m going to raise your damn taxes and cancel your damn corporate insurance, and whether you like it or not, it’s for your own damn good!”
Omnes Omnibus
@germy: Ah, the old prove a negative gambit.
JPL
@Another Scott: Taking lessons from the president, the current Secretary of State, mocked her pinky swear.
Eolirin
@WaterGirl: Oh, it’s stupid alright, but the conspiracy theories that are going to be used to attack Clyburn, Biden and the party in general from the BernieBros and Russian trolls are going to be intense.
germy
@Baud: “I didn’t see any candidates mention HRC, therefore it never happened. Prove me wrong.”
lamh36
@WaterGirl: If you can figure it out you tell me ??♀️
My response was a meant mire sarcasticlyrhan interpreted.
I agree with you. At this point it a response to what Clyburn was able to do for Biden.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@JPL: That pic of him and his son smirking as they linked pinkies made me want to punch them both right thru my computer screen.
Baud
@germy:
LOL. You can’t prove me wrong.
debbie
@germy:
I don’t see that any failure to do so is faulty, let alone mandatory. And I would bet Hillary doesn’t either. All it would have done was set off the ravening RWNJs, which is not the kind of publicity a candidate fighting in the primary would want, even from them.
Another Scott
@Suzanne: A “hot take” I heard a few days ago that seemed to me to be correct was:
“Earned media” is worth much more than paid ads. And people knowing who you are is worth much more than “earned media”.
William Proxmire supposedly never spent a cent on campaigning for re-election. His voters knew who he was, and he always got a bunch of “earned media” with his annual “golden fleece” awards. It was a long time ago, but it still holds for well-known politicians.
So, being broke wasn’t a problem for Biden at the time. But it would have been impossible for ex-Mayor Pete to come back or even do well early without spending a bazillion dollars and being on the debate stages.
tl;dr – Biden was a special case.
Cheers,
Scott.
Nicole
I think if Warren had tried to enlist the rage of Clinton supporters, the media would have been very quick to more forcefully remind everyone that she claimed in 2016 that the primaries were rigged against Bernie (that was the one time I was really disgusted with her as a politician. I got over it, and I supported her in this primary, but I didn’t forget it. Stupid, stupid thing to say).
Huge props to Harris for waiting until Warren was out to endorse. She’s such a good team player. I think Biden has a number of good women candidates for VP, and she’s certainly one I’d be happy to see on the ticket. Just, seriously, Biden, please pick a woman. Give us THAT, at least.
And I hope this whole 2020 experience has permanently damaged the Warren-Sanders alliance. Because Sanders is out for what’s good for Sanders, and nothing else, and I think Warren does genuinely want what’s best for the country.
germy
@Baud: Okay, so none of the female candidates mentioned HRC?
Very disrespectful of them! Running away from her like that.
I remember reading more than one article about Hillary having phone conversations with Harris and Warren. Kirsten too, I believe. It was reported widely. I think the candidates mentioned that in interviews.
joel hanes
@oldster:
As a big Liz fan, I want her in the Senate, where she can do considerable good, and not in the VP’s office, in which her talents will be largely wasted. The Vice Presidency, as has been noted, is not worth a bucket of warm spit.
TaMara (HFG)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It was a lame show.
After his shout-out, she went in to shake his hand (or hug him) and he turned away.
It may have been inadvertent, but broad enough I caught it and rewound to see if I saw what I thought I saw. And a couple of reviews of the show mentioned it, so I guess I didn’t imagine it.
Ruckus
@Baud:
I think it’s pretty obvious. She didn’t earn or deserve the crap she’s had thrown her way but, Hillary Clinton has baggage in this country. She’s brilliant, I worked and voted for her to win, and I was very proud that she won the popular vote. But as we all know and hate, she’s not president. And there are a large number, I believe, of people who voted for trump who have found out why we hate him. We need them to help crush him in November and crush him and his supporters massively. We can not afford to win like we did last time, the popular vote and lose the electoral. It’s wrong that she is not far better respected than she is but that’s where we are. No one running mentions her name because while she is still very important to the country she can not help us win this race. That’s wrong on so many levels but it is the reality. She ran a great campaign, she shouldn’t have won by only 3+ million, she should have won by 30 million over shit for brains. That’s how good she is and how bad he is.
But we are where we are, no matter how we got here and we have to move forward, for the sake of all of us, even those idiots who think shit for brains is doing a good job. And Hillary Clinton can’t help us do that, as shitty as that entire concept is.
Baud
@germy:
My point was that none of the candidates did anything to rally Hillary voters to them. Your recollection of possible articles that may have referred to her behind the scenes phone calls doesn’t change my view.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Baud
@Ruckus:
I don’t disagree. My point goes to whether it would have helped the losing primary campaigns to have taken that risk.
WaterGirl
@TaMara (HFG): I didn’t catch that Warren went in for the hug or the handshake, but I did catch the expression on her face, and it seemed like she was kind of startled or taken aback.
MomSense
@lamh36:
I’m personally hoping big pharma saves our bacon since the trump admin is hell bent on making the covid pandemic worse.
joel hanes
@PsiFighter37:
There’s simply no need for this level of personal attack.
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s awful. And stupid. And awfully stupid. Bernie has lost the plot.
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yes, they want to focus on BS’s old-manness, like his bringing up Biden’s vote on invading Iraq. How tired, how pointless.
debbie
@TaMara (HFG):
He’s a stodgy Brit, doubtless a Conservative. They don’t need no stinkin’ manners!
JMG
As someone who’s voted Democratic for going on 50 years, I only wish to hell we HAD an “establishment.” It’s a laughable concept, especially coming from Sanders who’s only been in Washington for 30 years.
Suzanne
@Another Scott: I agree with that hot take.
I also tend to think that candidates’ policy positions don’t matter all that much. Personality and brand matter much more to most voters. This is also why I think that Warren was at a specific disadvantage: her brand was about the thing that most people don’t really care about.
germy
@Baud: I’ll have to disagree. The campaigns of Gillibrand, Warren and Harris were a continuation of what was thwarted in 2016. The only one who was against HRC was Tulsi, who implied she was a warmonger (among other things). Tusi makes the entire theme of her candidacy “I am the anti-Hillary.” The others were vocal on building on what HRC started, not tearing down. The women at the rallies were the same ones who voted for HRC and were cheated by the electoral college.
debbie
@JMG:
I think BS forgot it wasn’t the 1960s. That’s what he meant by “the Establishment.” How long before he begins to call his opponents pigs or The Man?
Sab
@PsiFighter37: Stuff it. She isn’t in it anynore, I have wanted to vote for her for YEARS. Ain’t going to happen. In my state Bernie is a real threat, so I will vote for Biden who I am okay with instead of Warren whom I love. Eveey state is different.
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: You guys are reading a lot into one impromptu moment on a stage.
CaseyL
I don’t agree that a Biden Administration would necessarily be mostly palliative. A lot depends on who gets Cabinet positions. Joe will have a wealth of choices, and can get much needed clean-out-the-stables work done if he picks committed, energetic people for AG, State, Interior, etc.
johnnybuck
@Nicole: I think if Warren had tried to enlist the rage of Clinton supporters, the media would have been very quick to more forcefully remind everyone that she claimed in 2016 that the primaries were rigged against Bernie (that was the one time I was really disgusted with her as a politician. I got over it, and I supported her in this primary, but I didn’t forget it. Stupid, stupid thing to say)
I have often wondered if that stance didn’t hurt her this year. I think a lot of people who voted for Hillary Clinton remembered that, because it pissed them off at the time.
Conversely Harris was the frontrunner until the debate where she attacked Joe Biden on busing. She sank like a stone after that.
I think there is still a lot of affinity left for Obama’s VP, and HRC in certain communities.
germy
germy
Amir Khalid
@WaterGirl:
Has he? Bernie and his followers have always been focused on one thing only: MAKE BERNIE PRESIDENT. No other goal is legitimate.
Shakti
@Shalimar: I remember that Sanders got trounced in Florida last time in the primary. His followers were more content to bash “evil Hillary Clinton” than the real difficulties people had in getting the ID they needed to show to be able to vote.
Warren dropping out clarifies for me that I’m not gung ho about Biden or Sanders. They act like they’re not taking real threats to their campaigns seriously. Or just real threats.
Betty Cracker
@TaMara (HFG): Didn’t watch the whole show, just the opening via a clip, but I thought SNL absolutely NAILED the way Fox downplays the pandemic. McKinnon’s portrayal of Ingraham was good if not stellar IMO, and the woman who did the Pirro impersonation was perfect.
A Ghost To Most
@JMG: Same here. This is the most organized I’ve seen the Democratic Party.
Eyes on the prize, people.
patrick Il
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Didn’t Pence say he has a million tests ready? That would be a nice place to start. We could go from there. Of course, unless he was lying about the available tests.
jk
Biden 20…You Know the Thing
debbie
@Betty Cracker:
Yeah, Cecily Strong’s Pirro bits are all awesome, worth digging up on youtube.
“I walk into a room and houseplants DIE!”
trnc
I would love to see heads explode all over the media if Biden made Hillary his AG (although I doubt she would be interested, and the grief over it would probably outweigh the benefits).
trollhattan
@Shakti:
Now that myriad campaign staffers are suddenly looking for gigs, I’m hoping Biden vacuums up the best ones and sets course for the next half year.
Wilmer’s loyalty test will filter out a lot of them.
Ruckus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
One of the most ineffectual parental phrases ever issued.
And spot on.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@patrick Il: for the moment, I still trust Fauci
Our Surgeon General on the other hand:
trollhattan
@trnc:
Ambassador to Russia. Splody heads in two countries.
Cheryl Rofer
@patrick Il: Pence said that a million tests were ready a week ago Thursday. We see how that went.
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Until sometime last week the feds restricted use of their test kits to people who had traveled to the affected part of China or had direct contact with somebody who had. It was a policy literally two months behind the knowledge base.
Morans.
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Nope, I was just remembering the many “discussions” over beers with Thatcherite Brits.
A Ghost To Most
West of the Rockies
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I heard on Science Friday two days ago something by neurologist and author Daniel Levitan that brain surgery is not rocket science, that it’s “plumbing.” I’m sure he was being somewhat quippy, but I think he also was serious about in-deifying brain surgeons. Perhaps our HUD head is not as super-duper incandescently brilliant as we’ve been led to believe?
MisterForkbeard
About the endorsement: Awesome. I think Harris waited until after CA voted to be fair. and until the nomination was mostlyocked up so that the Very Left wouldnt hate her as much for ‘rigging’.
I’m going to wait for the rally where she publicly endorses Biden and drop him a money bomb so he knows why I did it.
patrick Il
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
My first instinct wasn’t to punch Pompeo’s smug smile — like a toddler who is so proud he didn’t shit himself. My feeling was embarrassment, looking at his stupid smile and knowing how a real Secretary of State should act, and knowing that metaphorically he should probably change his underwear.
BBA
My impression is that all the Hillary enthusiasts already backed Warren 1000% and it wasn’t enough to get her out of third place. Biden picked up most of the Dem regulars, while Bernie has his usual base of hardline misogynists and idiots. Predictable as fuck. Well, there’s always 202[4/8].
(Personally as a misandrist I was backing Gillibrand early on, though I figured Harris was most electable and Warren would do the best job as president… turns out there really is no constituency for misandry.)
taumaturgo
@Shalimar: Are Floridians on board with a most assured Grand Bargain 2.0 by Biden and his adults in the room?
Wanderer
@Baud: Perhaps you are right. I know she is always well prepared and always seems willing to problem solve. It seems leading a democratic majority would require those skills.
Baud
@BBA:
Anything less than full misanthropy is not worth getting out of bed for.
Jinchi
I agree. Although, I’m pretty sure that the Dem nominee’s pick for VP is going to be critically important. I’d give it high odds that they serve as president before the next term is over, at least in an acting capacity.
Wanderer
@WaterGirl: I imagine planning and coordinating are large parts of the job. I also believe she loves the senate and would be happy continuing there. Committee Chair?
oldgold
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
”for the moment, I still trust Fauci”
I do not. Why? Trump, like a black hole, warps every damn thing that come close. There are no exceptions.
Litlebritdifrnt
I just had one of the most “it could only happen round here” moments ever. The area where I now live (Westgate in Morecambe) is heavily occupied by a) old people (it is almost all Bungalows and is hoverround central) and b) Travelers (formerly known as Gypsies. That is no longer politically correct but the World Champion boxer Tyson Fury, who lives down the road, calls himself “The Gypsy King”) Anyhoo, I went to the local Grocery Store to pick some things up and a Traveler with a Pony and Trap were circling the parking lot. Couldn’t understand it until I was leaving the store, turns out his mate had gone into Lidl to buy a bag of carrots for the Pony, which they were feeding him outside the front door of the store. It was one of those iconic, yup this could only happen around here moments. :)
trollhattan
@BBA:
Gillibrand was so long ago I practically forgot she was in. I had high hopes for her but her campaign must have been mired in concrete because she never developed a national presence.
Too many, too early. Look when Biden announced compared to the others. Dumb, or dumb like a fox I’ll leave for discussions post-election.
J R in WV
@MattF:
Nope! It’s a psychiatric diagnosis!!
laura
@joel hanes: The Vice Presidency, as has been noted, is not worth a bucket of warm spit.
That may be true when there are no clear and present dangers. IMHO, the Veep will be very important to 2020 voters if for no ther reason than the advanced age of the likely candidate – let alone the current state of their health. I will find it reassuring if the Vice Presidential candidate is younger, as smart or smarter than Biden or Bernie and capable of stepping up and into the Office of the President on a moment’s notice. On a semi-related note, I’m surprised by the lack for concern about the protesters who got the run off by Jill Biden and Joe’s sister – the lack of security is shocking to me. Another Sirhan Sirhan event would be devastating and I hope that in the future the Secret Service is assigned to each of the candidates.
Maybe someday the VP can go back to being a ceremonial role, but not this election.
J R in WV
@PsiFighter37:
As always, we disagree. To me a vote for Warren, after she dropped out, is a strong statement in favor of progressive policy, and against Senator Sanders, who is a flaming ass as well as a Russian stooge.
But you be you, I can always put you back in my pie filter… let the thought be the deed!!! Done!
Ruckus
@Baud:
They obviously didn’t think so. None of the actual democratic candidates were or are stupid. They wanted to win and if they all acted the same way, doesn’t it make sense that the general consensus is that they agreed with it? Hell I’d bet that Hillary Clinton agreed with it. Doesn’t mean they like it, doesn’t mean they didn’t want to, it means they had a decision to make and they all came up with the same answer. That’s pretty reasonable, given the history, that they would all have the same answer, especially given the political reality of this country. That doesn’t make it right or proper or good, it just is. It’s no secret that our politics are toxic to reason, we have one party that has aligned itself to a racist, narcissistic moron as the epitome of leadership.
Nicole
@trollhattan: Gillibrand was not going to overcome 2 things- voting against the bank bailout in 2008 as a Representative (bank execs have long memories and they weren’t going to give her $$) and being the first to publicly call for Franken’s resignation (by barely 90 minutes, but the media will sell the story the media will sell and they wanted to sell the story that the Jr. blonde Senator from NY singlehandedly forced out the Senator from MN). As she herself said, there is no prize for someone who tries to hold accountable a powerful man who is good at his day job. Her campaign was never going to get any traction.
satby
@Chris Johnson: it’s “wins” and “losses”, not “also rans” that get counted. People really need to grow up about voting.
Baud
@Ruckus:
Maybe. We question campaign tactics all the time on the tubes. This is my critique. We’ll never really know.
hitchhiker
Since this thread is about to die, it’s time for me to weigh in.
Someone in the Biden org has poll-tested the words “dignity” and “decency.” Every time somebody endorses him, they use those words. This is going to be the brand, and it works because it’s what most people already think about him.
This is why there will be a lot of media on the right pushing his gaffes — it’s about removing the “dignity” aspect of his persona. Likewise, the effort to smear his son is aimed at “decency.”
I don’t think any of that will work, because Joe has been a presence in national politics for a very long time.
Geminid
Senator is a good job, and excepting Doug Jones of Alabama, the Democrats have good job security, so I don’t look for any Senator to take a cabinet post. Luckily there are plenty of good choices for AG: former U.S. Attorneys like Joyce Vance of Alabama, current state Attorney Generals like Tish James of New York. I’d like to see a woman in that post, but there are good men like Preet Bharara. Maybe Geoffrey Holder would do a second run. I thought he was very good. Assuming there is a Democratic elected to make appointments, of course. I’m just glad I’m not wondering who Sanders might pick, like I was 10 days ago.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Geminid: I’m still hoping Tish James is the one to make the dream of trump in jail a reality
James E Powell
@J R in WV:
Let me offer a different interpretation, one that I hope will not be taken as a slam against you personally, but as a hypothetical.
Warren gets a bunch of votes. The press/media says, “Democrats in disarray. Many still not sold on Biden.” Or “Democrats showing buyer’s remorse on Biden.” And how do you think Sanders and his followers will interpret & spin things?
I was Harris, voted for Warren, now I’m Biden because that’s what my team members have decided. Why not just say, okay we got out candidate, he is much better than their candidate, so let’s get to work and elect him?
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
I think you are quite possibly correct. EW was/is showing us that we can be better, we can do things that make our life better, we can have a country that doesn’t throw away people in the rush to succeed, that everyone counts. She wants better for all of us. And our country has been for so long wanting better for ME, ME, ME, or at least not for them, so that message is foreign to many, even the people that need it most.
J R in WV
@Betty Cracker:
This Betty! She worked hard to create equal educational opportunities for disabled kids, without that work we wouldn’t see school buses with wheelchair lifts and little kids in wheelchairs coming home from school. She did that in Arkansas when Bill was not yet Governor. She worked for civil rights back then as well.
All reasons for RWNJs to hate her, they hate disabled people in school, think they should all be either in the basement or the attic. And we know what they think about civil rights, no one should have any but registered Republicans! She would make a great AG, but I’m afraid the RWNJs would use her email “scandal” and her bengazi “scandal” to distract from her crime fighting amongst the Trumpers.
Plus, she deserves her status as elder statesman and a great, happy retirement with grandkids. Perhaps Ambassador to the UN? Near home, prestigious, beneficial to rebuilding our international status~!!~ And if that puts some RWNJs heads on slow burn, that’s a benefit as far as I’m concerned.
She is a hero, which is why I will always be glad I volunteered for her and worked my ass off to help her win that election. Which she did by millions of votes, only to have it stolen by Russian agents embedded in the Republican party!
Suzanne
@J R in WV:
My vote for Warren was a statement of my belief in visionary progressive politics without a cult of personality around it; a statement of my belief that intelligence, skills, and character matter; and a statement of my belief that mediocre old white dudes need to sit down. Like, yesterday. I am sick of the country working through its psychodrama via elections.
Suzanne
@Ruckus: I’m not sure if it’s even nefarious. By nature, most people get comfortable with a status quo, even a sucky status quo. Progressive politics (and this has nothing to do with Bernie) requires a visionary outlook, i.e. the ability to imagine something we don’t have. And Eminem said it best: “Visionary, vision is scary”. Warren represented a change from what is known and that is always a risky thing, including for—especially for—the people who need change the most.
Sanders did an excellent job aligning his personal brand with progressivism. We should never have made that category error. Progressive politics don’t belong to Bernie.
Darkrose
@lamh36: Absolutely. CA has a Democratic governor. The top two primary and the fact that the CA GOP has decided to go all-in on the crazy means it’s likely that a special election will be between two Democrats.
BBA
I’m considering voting Warren (who will be on the ballot when New York votes nearly two months after she dropped out) mainly because Biden is an old man, and if he has to leave the race for health reasons then I want her faction to have as much of a say as possible in who replaces him on the ticket.
Geminid
@Nicole: Yeah, I thought Gillebrand got a bad rap about Franken’s resignation. This was an event conditioned by the context of the Alabama special election to fill Session’s seat. The Democrats wanted Franken off the board so as not to undercut the attack on Judge Moore for going after underaged adolescents. A ruthless move by Senate Democrats. Another time they would have let the Ethics Committee recommend a reprimand, and then left the matter to the people of Minnesota to decide in Franken’s next election. He was a big hero to some Democrats, though. I thought he was a good Senator, but expendable, so I didn’t mind the ruthlessness. I felt like that Alabama election mattered a lot.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Geminid: as a Franken-stan and someone unimpressed by Gillibrand as a candidate, she has a long record of risking her career over sexual harrassment and assault. She went up against the Pentagon, fercrissake. And subsequent events have proved her right. Someone here who knows people who worked on SNL crew back in the day said those people were not surprised by the allegations.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
Agreed.
Darkrose
@WaterGirl: I think someone who fights for what she believes in and who understands that the filibuster has to go would be an excellent Majority Leader—and certainly better than Schumer.
joel hanes
@BBA:
all the Hillary enthusiasts already backed Warren 1000%
Anecdata : The HRC enthusiasts I know were all over the map. Several saw Buttigeig in person and were captivated. One always thought Klobuchar was the sensible, proven, hard-as-nails obvious choice. Two all in for Warren. One Harris -> Warren. Two afraid that anyone but Biden would either lose outright, or have no coattails.
joel hanes
@taumaturgo:
a most assured Grand Bargain 2.0
Not gonna happen.
Fifty dollars to the charity of your choice if it does.
Kathleen
@Baud: Excellent question. I’m still angry because now we have Sanders Slimes The Dem Nominee Part Deaux and I’m sick of him being considered as a viable real candidate with something to offer.
Kathleen
@lamh36: Truth. I hope she gets VP nod if she wants it.
Ruckus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I remember when it was suggested that Franken was asked about running for president and he said he had too much baggage. I remarked here about how quickly he bowed out of the senate. He’s not a dumb person, he seems to be a rather staunch democrat, and he recognized his past may not be the perfectly clean one that we demand, forgetting that the vast majority of humans are not close to perfect. Really, really not close to any level of perfection. That does not excuse him in any way, just that we should recognize that everyone is human, that all of us are flawed, and that some are flawed a little and some massively. trump is human, barely, but he is, massive flaws and all.
Kathleen
@Miss Bianca: May I sit next to you?
PsiFighter37
@J R in WV: I’m glad to know there are plenty of progressive non-Bernie Bros who are more than pleased at throwing their votes away. It confirms a lot of the implicit privilege that people here feel that they can effectively trash their own vote to ‘make a statement’. Really showing how much y’all actually value democracy. Good grief.
Kathleen
@Haydnseek: I definitely held that against him. That plus the Lieberman pick.
Kathleen
@Omnes Omnibus: I think it’s Establishment Dems Bad.
Kathleen
@lamh36: Yup. It’s that kind of dog whistling by his campaign that makes me wonder why so many still think he’s an “acceptable, viable” candidate.
Also, thanks so much for link to thread from Michael Harriot yesterday. It was enlightening and uplifting.
Kathleen
@WaterGirl: Cue AOC and Justice Dems primarying Clyburn.
Shalimar
@taumaturgo: Thank you for condensing the biggest problem with Sanders and his supporters into one question. There isn’t going to be a Grand Bargain, because even if Biden wants one, the vast majority (90%+) of Democrats don’t. The damage would be immeasurable. Biden isn’t God, just like Sanders isn’t God. One person can’t get anything done just by yelling.
Chris Johnson
@PsiFighter37: It’s a PRIMARY. Holy crap.
Omnes Omnibus
@Chris Johnson: Yes, and some people don’t think it is the best place for virtue signalling.
pamelabrown53
@Chris Johnson:
Yeah it’s a PRIMARY but “Holy Crap” it’s an existential one. If there ever was a time to circle the wagons it’s now. We cannot allow Bernie and his Bros to to use right-wing disinformation to hurt our candidate like he did with Hillary in 2016.
I understand Psi’s POV: your dismissiveness is self referential and indulgent at a time where Me needs to bend the knee to We.
J R in WV
@PsiFighter37:
I’m glad I toggled this comment, it’s a perfect example of why you deserve to be, and ARE pied. Voting is how we communicate with people seeking office. While people who didn’t vote for Hillary in 2016 did actually throw their votes away, because even though she won the popular vote by around three-million votes, she lost the electoral college vote in the end, people who vote for their favorite candidate in an election where the actual winner is known ahead of time don’t throw anything away. By voting for Warren they make a political statement, knowing that an acceptable dandidate will win the primary in their state, while telling that successful candidate that they prefer a more progressive candidate who retired from the elective race. That vote sounds like a powerful statement in favor of a real progressive platform, going into the convention.
“Implicit privilege” … “make a statement” … no one displays more privilege than Russian tool Sanders and his minions, like you. Not only throwing your own votes away, but doing your best to throw everyone else’s votes away by electing a guy who’s VP candidate is literally Fidel Castro. ;-) Or someone else equally appealing to American voters.
I would say the people on here I haven’t pied value democracy pretty highly, as opposed to the trolls and Russian tools in my pie list, like you. And “y’all,” so condescending, y’all. Thanks, and g’bye to you back in the pie-safe!
@Chris Johnson:
Such a great job, boiling my comment down to 5 words, makes me look bad by going on and on when five words work just as well!! Thanks Chris~!!~
Duane
@Kathleen: Good reason to vote Biden and kick Sanders while he’s down. Leave him so defeated there’s nothing left for him to do but concede and fully support Biden’s candidacy.
Omnes Omnibus
@J R in WV: Where do you get the idea that Psi is a Bernie Bro?
J R in WV
@Omnes Omnibus:
I got that idea from his arrogance and condescension, but I could be wrong, won’t be the first time. Still in the pie-safe forever more…
I guess they could just be an especially arrogant and condescending troll with no special love for Sanders? Who cares, trollish is as trollish does.
ETA:
I didn’t see this comment, which, as you say, doesn’t indicate that psy is a big Bernie booster. My bad. Just a troll then? still arrogant and condescending.
Omnes Omnibus
@J R in WV: He is right on this issue.
pamelabrown53
@Omnes Omnibus:
I agree. Maybe you could show your work. I tried just above but perhaps you would be more erudite than me?
Chris Johnson
@pamelabrown53: Any primary vote for Warren that doesn’t actually deprive Biden of a delegate majority (we’re not talking about throwing it to a brokered convention here, folks, that ship has sailed) is a vote that Michael Bloomberg cannot claim he represents, and a vote that Bernie Sanders cannot claim he’s entitled to as the official Left.
Omnes Omnibus
@pamelabrown53: I have typed at length on the past about importance of voting and not using your vote as a fashion accessory or method of virtue signalling. While Warren was still in the race, voting for her even if it was unlikely that she could win was a completely appropriate thing to do. If someone thought she was the best candidate, then she was the person they should have voted for. Now that she is no longer in the race, voting for her is not is not choosing the best candidate in the race; it is “sending a message.” In my view, only very privileged people who are unaware of the extent of their privilege feel free to use their vote that way. I am unlikely to be persuasive on this point, but thanks for the vote of confidence.
Omnes Omnibus
@Chris Johnson: Neither Bloomberg nor Warren are candidates anymore. Why is this hard to understand?
pamelabrown53
@Chris Johnson:
Normally, I’d agree with you but we are not in normal times. IMO, it’s imperative that there are no avenues for Bernie and his minions to do what they did to Hillary and our convention.
pamelabrown53
@Omnes Omnibus:
@Omnes Omnibus:
Thanks for your reply. You got to the crux of the matter much better than I.
pamelabrown53
@pamelabrown53:
I don’t know why there’s so much space and I don’t know how to fix it!
Ella in New Mexico
@Omnes Omnibus:
Ok, sooo….
LIz is 70, a female with no chronic illnesses who runs and walks daily, eats well, and is in robust health. On my life expectancy algorithms (which I use regularly as a primary care provider) she comes in at greater than 89 yrs. I bet if we ran her labs and looked at her telomeres she’s really around 45-50 body clock wise.
Everyone ages differently, and it’s important to keep that in mind when heaving agist comments around. Look at the person and how they’re functioning before assigning an arbitrary age at which to send them to the glue factory.
Ya’d think watching Nancy Smash literally do that for the past two years should have taught everyone here a lesson in this by now…
Omnes Omnibus
@Ella in New Mexico: Oh ffs.
Ella in New Mexico
@Omnes Omnibus: No offense intended personally to you cuz I do like your presence and comments but I’m approaching 60 and don’t take kindly to this kind of stuff anymore than I did hearing people tell me “women can’t ….” whatever. ;-)
Brachiator
@BBA:
I have been out and about and am sampling posts a little late. This post caught my eye.
I understand this sentiment, and note that I voted for Warren in the California primary.
However, I don’t see that Warren has much of a faction at all. The primary voters so far have, unfortunately, indicated that they are not much impressed by what she has to offer. And even if Biden continues to do well in primaries, but has to withdraw for any reason, I don’t see that Warren would necessarily be in a strong position to make a case as the nominee.
That said, I think that folks in the remaining primaries should vote any way they wish. I think it unlikely, but it would be interesting if Warren showed a stronger showing despite dropping out of the race.
Another Scott
@Ella in New Mexico: Thanks for the reminder.
Women on my step-mom’s side of the family routinely lived to be over 100. One made it to 103, I think. One of her aunts was a (retired) college professor and was still very sharp at 100.
Averages and calendar ages really don’t tell us much about how a particular person will handle the stresses of the Presidency. And Ronnie and Donnie showed us that the Presidency really doesn’t have to be all that stressful a job, if the occupant doesn’t want to make it one…
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ella in New Mexico: @Another Scott: Fuck it. Let’s run a pair of septuagenarians. Let’s see how it turns out. I’m sure it will do wonders for the youth vote.
ETA: Any of you who haven’t voted already, please make sure you vote for Warren as well. Let’s make sure we send good messages. I’m going to go play outside.
Another Scott
@Omnes Omnibus: Heh.
I’m a fan of picking the best candidates we can, independent of age, myself.
Donnie is old.
Bernie is old.
Uncle Joe is old.
Age isn’t going to be an issue in November, unless something unexpected happens. Is Donnie’s “team” better because Pence is “young”?
The issues will be Donnie’s record.
Eyes on the prizes.
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
@Ella in New Mexico:
Good point. Still, I want to see a younger VP and a much younger cabinet. It is about longevity and turning things over to a new generation, not just about the health of a possible president and VP. If we can take the government back, we want to build for the future.
@Another Scott:
My mother recently had her 91st birthday. Most people her age are dead.
Another Scott
@Brachiator:
Thank you Captain Obvious.
Most people don’t run for President. That’s the point.
Cheers,
Scott.
PsiFighter37
@J R in WV: No, just someone who takes high exception to people throwing their vote away to send messages that make themselves feel good.
If you’ve read any of my posts here over the years, you’d know I hate Bernie with the fire of a thousand suns. I don’t have much particular love for Biden, but I would vote for him a thousand times over the guy who is more focused on destroying the Democratic Party than defeating Donald Trump.
Kathleen
@Duane: Amen.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
My mother is not running for president either.
ETA: Long ago, in a number of threads, I pointed out that the people who worried about John McCain’s health and the possibility that Sarah Palin might succeed him did not consider his relative good health and his family history. His mother is still alive at age 108 and her twin sister died, I believe at age 99. And as we now know, had McCain been elected, he likely would have been able to serve two terms.
So, yeah, that Biden, Sanders and Warren being in their 70s is not disqualifying, but it is still reasonable to prefer a younger candidate for VP and, as I noted, for cabinet slots, the Supreme Court, etc.
Yeah, this is pretty obvious.
Kathleen
@pamelabrown53: You are so right.
Ella in New Mexico
@Brachiator:
Point well taken. As long as they’re smart, good leaders and can actually get things done because they have a frigging plan rather than just look like they do cuz they’re young and talk pretty, I’m totes on board. ;-)
Omnes Omnibus
@Ella in New Mexico: Thanks for assuming that I just wanted someone young who talks pretty as VP.
No One You Know
@Baud: Hillary is still hated by everyone that used to hate her, but her support then may have moved on. We aren’t monolithic. That’s my take.
Ella in New Mexico
@Omnes Omnibus: not only was that not a reply to you, it was my characterization/ generalization of some of what I hear around here when folks fantasize who should be VP