We still don’t know why the CDC decided to develop its own test for SARS-CoV-2. If the dysfunction persists, it’s a danger to other decisions being made about the epidemic. But, like the number of Covid-19 cases in the United States, we just don’t know.
The director of the CDC, Robert Redfield, was involved in the decision, but we don’t know how. It could be anything from a definitive order to passing it off to someone else, which is a decision too.
Redfield’s background is in the military and a university, as a clinician and researcher. Before he came to CDC, he had no experience in directing a public health agency. His research is in the area of HIV/AIDS. While in the military, in the 1980s, he called for mandatory HIV testing of recruits and segregating HIV-positive personnel, a move opposed by medical authorities at that time.
Also in the 1980s,
Redfield worked closely with W. Shepherd Smith, Jr. and his Christian organization, Americans for a Sound AIDS/HIV Policy, or ASAP. The group maintained that AIDS was “God’s judgment” against homosexuals, spread in an America weakened by single-parent households and loss of family values.
With ASAP, Redfield backed a House bill that would have effectively quarantined people with HIV. The bill died in Congress. Redfield also backed a developmental AIDS vaccine, lobbying Congress to fund a $20 million clinical trial. The vaccine and Redfield’s lobbying failed. ASAP is now known as the Children’s AIDS Fund, and Redfield was on its board in 2018 when he was named CDC director.
In last Friday’s press conference at the CDC, Redfield offered his adulation to Trump. Not a good look for someone who is supposed to be a scientific advisor.
Before Redfield was made director, the CDC was in turmoil from a poor decision on its director and continuing budget cuts. Thomas Frieden, appointed by Barack Obama, resigned in 2017. Six months later, Donald Trump appointed Brenda Fitzgerald, state health commissioner in Georgia. Fitzgerald’s directorship dissolved in revelations of a grant to a company that she and her husband held stock in and other conflicts of interest.
Those disruptions may have made CDC more susceptible to poor decision-making.
Cross-posted to Nuclear Diner
Yutsano
He seems nice…
WereBear
I am really getting tired of all the winning.
Scott
Let me guess: Mike Pence hired this guy.
MattF
I’ve pointed to Derek Lowe’s In The Pipeline blog before, he now has a series of posts on current drug development for COVID-19. And Redfield sounds like the wrong person for his job, very wrong indeed.
Roger Moore
It’s consistently amazing that no matter how bad any Trump hire is, they always manage to find a replacement who’s even worse. I guess that’s why Jared isn’t allowed to leave any post he’s been given; there’s no way to find a worse hire to replace him.
Yutsano
@Scott: CDC chief does not require Congressional approval. I think that’s one of the things that should change, with requirements on background for the nominee.
Betty Cracker
Yeah, that’s the exact moment I stopped believing anything he has to say. The only one of the bunch I listen to is Faucci.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I see TPM is moving to remote work only.
Major Major Major Major
Jesus Christ. I had no idea. Fucker. No wonder he can’t do anything right.
Cervantes
@Betty Cracker: Ritual panegyrics to Dear Leader are a job requirement.
Aardvark Cheeselog
I too took the liberty yesterday of looking up this Redfield character. Imagine my surprise when I found he’d been subject to a review about whether he committed scientific misconduct in trials of a vaccine in which he had a commercial interest! It was literally nonexistent (my surprise, that is)! We can’t, after all, have someone whose career is entirely unblemished by any accusations of cheating or self-dealing be in charge of something as important as the CDC, after all!
David C
In the bureaucratic community, Redfield is considered a not-horrible choice, but there are questions about whether the political appointees are up to the task. Schuchat knows what she is doing, but we don’t know what is happening behind the scenes. When Nancy Messionnier was criticized, we were warned. There are people who are afraid to open their mouths, and the White House preparedness team doesn’t exist.
Gin & Tonic
@Betty Cracker: I was half-listening to last night’s presser, and while I think Pence was most egregious, there were others, and I lost count of how many references there were to the “outstanding leadership” of Trump. Sounded like North Korea.
MattF
@Cervantes: Agreed. Redfield was making a public display of his ‘fitness’ for the job.
David C
And Betty is wise to listen to Fauci, as long as he still has his voice (a little raspy these days). People behind the scenes are getting him the latest data.
jonas
Talibangical nutcase? Check. Lack of qualifications? Check. Yep, sounds about right. I’m surprised Trump didn’t have a cabinet-level position for him.
germy
Israeli rabbi: Coronavirus outbreak is divine punishment for gay pride parades
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-rabbi-blames-coronavirus-outbreak-on-gay-pride-parades/
Mike in NC
The Surgeon General also appears to be a sniveling ass-kisser when he appears with Fat Bastard. What a surprise!
bbleh
Those disruptions may have made CDC more susceptible to poor decision-making.
Lol, no need to go out on a limb there …
Aardvark Cheeselog
Who wants a bet that it will turn out the CDC test requires some component or reagent that is only manufactured by a business in which Redfield has an interest? Or that it was designed with (paid) consultation by a 3rd-party crony of Redfield’s?
MattF
@Aardvark Cheeselog: Or that some Trump courtier has a financial interest.
Dadadadadadada
My daughter’s school in the Bronx just closed for 2 weeks. A parent of a student has tested positive, and another family is being tested. My wife was sent home from work. I think this is just the beginning.
Major Major Major Major
National Guard deployed to help lock down New Rochelle in Westchester.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Mike in NC:
It’s gross. How can they do it?
Martin
@Yutsano: Wouldn’t matter. Republican senators keep confirming hacks and idiots. Just having them confirm more hacks and idiots doesn’t solve anything.
Somehow we need to get them to stop confirming hacks and idiots, which would probably necessitate the voters stop electing hacks and idiots.
trollhattan
Redding is one of the California places we quarantine our wingnuts. An unintended consequence is the formation of organizations like this one.
Not to worry, this is TOTALLY NORMAL.
Sebastian
WTF is going on in New Rochelle?
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: Wow. Just reading that sentence is chilling.
Martin
@Dorothy A. Winsor: You hire people you know will do it. People know if they’re an ass licker or not. They know someone like Trump is their opportunity to get hired into a better position. It’s a self-reinforcing loop.
trollhattan
@germy:
That’ll show them gheys, by cracky! Israeli hillbillies, who knew?
Sebastian
@trollhattan:
How does this compute with FOX’ and their Orange God’s claim it’s just a “Democrat HOAX”?
Gin & Tonic
@trollhattan:
… and make the little girls talk outta their heads
Feathers
I remember early on that someone in Philadelphia was told that to get FDA approval for any test they developed it had to distinguish between COVID and two other viruses one which had not been seen in the wild since 2007 (SARS?) and another which was confined to the Mideast (MERS?). This person was upset because that would be impossible to prove but also pointless, because patients were not going to be presenting with either.
This is a highly plausible reason for the early test bungles. I worked for an engineering firm where this was called Design by Vice President, where a worthy goal makes a project functionally either impossible or unworkable or both.
Martin
@Sebastian: 1 mile restriction zone around the town. Hard quarantine of the town.
Good on Cuomo for having the courage to do this. Not a step to be taken lightly. Not sure it’s the right thing to do, but since the feds are doing nothing…
Jharp
I can think of only one reason to pass on using the WHO test.
Profits for a Trump cronie.
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: yeahhhh.
cain
@Aardvark Cheeselog:
If he thinks he gets to fuck this job up during a pandemic and his boss will help him cover it all up, he picked the wrong job. He’s going to be thrown under the bus. Cruel fucker.
This pandemic seems more like the worst curse for authoritorians everywhere. All these fuckers sunk deep in fake news and conspiracy are going to run headlong into reality – COVID19 is thy name.
Martin
@Feathers: That’s what my understanding is as well. The FDA could have certified the WHO test in a day, and then set about working on this better test and swapped it out once they got it right, rather than this idiocy.
MattF
@Sebastian: Cognitive dissonance doesn’t change anyone’s mind. Research shows, counterintuitively, that it strengthens the crazy.
trollhattan
@Gin & Tonic:
Heh, a reference that then made my brain jump to
But the second mother was with the seventh son
And they were both out on Highway 61
Cheryl Rofer
@Feathers: What we need to know is who made those decisions.
germy
cain
@Martin:
Their goal is to prove that govt is bad – and they believe in it so strongly that it is a religion. Zealots. I think we are all going to have a reality shift at this point.
Trump is running the fed like a business. Now everyone can see how badly that is failing and is going to fail.
David C
@Martin: An EUA could have happened rather quickly (a day might be pushing it, even assuming that everything is properly validated), but they won’t approve anything that doesn’t come to their desk.
Major Major Major Major
At least New Rochelle isn’t on a commuter rail line that ends seven blocks from my apartment or anything.
cain
@Martin:
But that only works if the ecosystem is filled with wingnuts. Otherwise, they are kind of fucked.
Gin & Tonic
@trollhattan: I’m glad somebody got it, and I like the segue.
Martin
@David C: I don’t trust Fauci much. Yesterday he was saying it was fine to get on a cruise ship. He’s clearly the best of the lot, and by a lot, but he let his credibility get wrecked by Trump.
And I hope Congress doesn’t fall for Trump stimulus bullshit. Payroll tax holiday and a bailout for the travel and hotel industry? Hmm, who’s going to profit most from that?
Fuck that. Put forward protections for workers – guarantee sick leave, pay for hourly workers, etc.
Martin
@Major Major Major Major: I used to take that line all the time. It’s possible that’s the only reason I know where New Rochelle is, and why I knew which of the Grand Central Dunkin Donuts had the shortest line.
jonas
@Sebastian: Bunch of outbreaks traced to a local synagogue there. Whole congregation was asked to self-quarantine, but now whole town is on lockdown.
germy
Martin
@cain: The ecosystem is always filled with wingnuts. Or at least enough of them to find one to hire. If not, you put Jared and Mulvaney in every job.
John Revolta
@Martin: The other problem of course is that it turns out that we don’t really need to confirm most of these bozos at all. We can just call them “Acting” Bozo and Hey Presto! Problem solved.
We need a law saying all the bozos need Congressional confirmation within 30 or 60 days or they can’t serve. Period.
Major Major Major Major
@germy: I’m shocked to find lying going on in this administration.
germy
friends helping friends.
MattF
@Martin: I do get the sense that media (except Fox) are looking past Trump for their facts. Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part, but I don’t think Trump is taken seriously as a source of information, not by anyone.
KSinMA
@Scott: I’d been wondering if a Christian wingnut or a fan of eugenics might be mixed up in this. Sounds like both.
David C
@Martin: Fauci only has 35 years of getting it right. For him to make an official recommendation for everyone when this hasn’t been discussed internally would probably not be his call.
bluehill
I don’t know if Trump and the coronavirus will be the end game of Grover Norquist’s drown the government bs, but maybe it will be the start.
germy
Martin
@germy: Fuck that shit.
dmsilev
WaPo:
Feel safer yet?
MJS
In other news, social distancing might be a good campaign strategy for Joe for awhile. I like pugnacious Joe, but he needs to learn how to say, “That’s not true,” disengage, and move on.
David C
@germy: My boss got called to the WH on day in April and we didn’t see him for another 1.5 years. Actually, we did see him a couple of times and got a West Wing Tour. Here he is with the BBC.
https://youtu.be/dcJDpV-igjs
trollhattan
@germy:
Oh lord, screw that with extreme prejudice. Can Trump actually bypass congress and shovel out a giant emergency Corona-gift to the awhl industry?
trollhattan
@dmsilev:
It reminds me so very much of Bush telling everybody to go shopping after 9/11. “Now, watch this drive.”
Yet another reason I wanted Warren–no golf.
Gin & Tonic
@dmsilev: I haven’t been to confession in a really long time, but…
Gravenstone
@germy: So Rudy is only off by a factor of 1000 in his bald faced lie. That seems conservative for him.
JCJ
@trollhattan:
Golan Heights?
germy
@trollhattan: I think he decided a long time ago he can do whatever he wants…
chopper
@Feathers:
problem is, outside of SARS and MERS there’s another family of coronaviruses that causes over 100 million cases of common cold every year in the US. so it’s important for the test kit to focus only on sars-cov-2 and exclude the other members of the coronavirus family.
germy
@Gravenstone: That’s what he gets for listening to Kirk.
sdhays
@trollhattan: Amen to that!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@David C:
He seems very level headed.
Raoul
Not that a twatter poll is even remotely scientific, but the US is following the Italian model of very poorly handled containment. It’s gonna get a whole lot worse here.
Obviously this leaves out many things people might be doing to prepare. But ‘no change at all’ is … not wise.
John Revolta
@trollhattan: Well, if some friend of the President losing 2 billion dollars isn’t a National Emergency, I’d like to know what is.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
SF Chronicle has a useful map on the corona virus cases.
https://projects.sfchronicle.com/2020/coronavirus-map/
National Map is interesting
Cal 143 cases, 2 deaths 1.4% mortality
New York 173 cases, 0 deaths 0% mortality
Washington 167 cases, 23 deaths 14% mortality
Says a lot about vulnerable segments of the population.
Martin
Good policy by Inslee: Nursing homes – one adult visitor per person per day, screened for virus. Exceptions for end-of-life care. That should be national, today.
Mallard FIlmore
@dmsilev:
Maybe we will have a “War Of The Worlds” endgame event.
The Dangerman
@germy:
Harold Hamm didn’t have to give a handy?
Villago Delenda Est
Involving “Christians”, with their ideology of cruelty, with ANY medical policy, is asking for trouble.
LuciaMia
Rob and Laura Petrie are acting up again?
Chyron HR
@bluehill:
We need a government sick enough to drown in its own lungs.
Chyron HR
@Mallard FIlmore:
Translation: Trump has been tested positive.
danielx
No, really? You don’t say!
bluehill
@germy: His tax cut doesn’t look so good now. Guess he forgot about Vlad’s oil buddies.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Roger Moore: Of course this guy is worse; no one serious about their career is going to work for Trump between getting humiliated, blocked from doing their job until they are blamed and then fired for Trump’s bad decisions. The only people will even apply for the Trump admin positions are crazies or losers.
Martin
Yolo and Placer counties in CA are following Sacramento county’s recommendation to stop 14 day quarantine for just coming in contact with someone with it. Sounds like they’re struggling to stay operational with that in place.
bluehill
@Chyron HR: I didn’t think of it this way and for once, I find myself agreeing with Grover.
The Dangerman
@Chyron HR:
The second Trump tests positive, he’s on his way to Walter Reed and Melania runs away like her ass is on fire.
Aziz, light!
@Raoul: “No change at all” can also mean that one’s work and life do not require out of town travel or attendance at large events, and that only basic precautions are needed to limit one’s exposure.
trollhattan
@Martin:
Just read that. They’ve thrown in the towel WRT containment and now their strategy is mitigation. It didn’t have to play out this way, but the lame federal response has rendered containment moot, at least in regions that are transportation hubs.
Super.
Aziz, light!
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: At this point the mortality rates are meaningless figures because without widespread testing the number of reported cases does not convey how many people have been exposed to the virus.
My guess is that we won’t know the actual rate for another month or three.
senyordave
OT, but this thing about Biden cursing out someone over guns. Is he fucking kidding? Its’ almost never a good look.
West of the Rockies
@trollhattan:
I suspect that the virus has been in the U.S. and in transmission since early January. I suspect a number of people caught it, didn’t even know, and recovered (after, of course, transmitting it to others). The idea that, for instance, Glen County (near Butte, Tehema Counties) is clear of the disease and would remain so with proper measures is naive.
joel hanes
@Aardvark Cheeselog:
My own theory is that Trump himself directed Redfield to restrict the availability of test kits and to slow-walk testing in order to preserve the plausibility of Trump’s “nothing to worry about” kayfabe. And that Trump still perceives this crisis as being a public relations problem, and about himself.
West of the Rockies
Random OT good news… After today’s mini-Super Tuesday, we’re closer to Bernie disappearing. The Dow has bounced back. Look for good news where you can. Be safe, all.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
Robert Redfield has gained a lot of weight. What a shame. He was so good looking in “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid”
Roger Moore
@cain:
Perhaps if we want to hire a business leader to run the federal government like a business, we shouldn’t choose a business leader with a history of bankruptcy and mob ties.
Another Scott
TheAtlantic (from March 7):
(Emphasis added.)
More at the link.
Messonnier seems to have the technical chops to do the job. I have to assume that she’s being told not to do it.
Cheers,
Scott.
patrick II
I haven’t heard or read this anywhere, so maybe I misheard it — but didn’t the last guy to speak at that presser yesterday, the person in uniform, say that coronavirus was no worse than the flu? And is that really what the last statement of that presser should be?
Gin & Tonic
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: In fairness, I was a lot better-looking in 1969 too.
Raoul
Def. off topic, but de-fucking-liscious:
Austin-based conspiracy theorist Alex Jones was booked into the Travis County Jail on a charge of driving while intoxicated just after midnight Tuesday, the Travis County sheriff’s office said.
burnspbesq
Wait until you see how quickly the payroll tax holiday becomes part of the reason why Social Security and Medicare have to be cut.
Martin
@Roger Moore: Businesses fail all the time. In fact, it’s a key prerequisite of capitalism.
Maybe we should think this through better.
Dorothy A. Winsor
My old field’s major annual conference was just cancelled. It was schedule for two weeks from now. I feel so bad for the people who did all the work and planning, and also for the scholars ready to do presentations, especially the not-yet-tenured ones. But I think it was the right decision.
Martin
@burnspbesq: Yep. And what’s the point? Businesses aren’t required to pass that on to workers. They’ll just keep it as they did with the tax cuts.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@Gin & Tonic: Los Bandidos Yanquis
West of the Rockies
@Raoul:
I bet he’s fun in a bar after a beer or four.
Martin
Harry Potter has coronavirus. I blame Snape.
Mallard FIlmore
@Aziz, light!:
My guess is that even this is too late. We will get the actual rate from other countries.
Roger Moore
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I think it says there’s a much bigger outbreak in Washington that hasn’t been detected because they haven’t been allowed to run enough tests.
Matt McIrvin
@cain: But it does give them an excuse to get their authoritarianism on, which some will surely abuse endlessly.
Singapore’s somewhat illiberal government is coming off really well in this crisis–they seem to have leveraged their power to control the thing, and the local culture of rule-following, without falling prey to authoritarian incompetence in the early stages. Of course they were also in a really unique geographic situation–an early target of the virus because of huge Chinese traffic to there, but they’re also a geographically small city-state with controllable borders.
Gin & Tonic
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I’m a little more skeptical about all these cancellations. As I posted this morning in a long-dead thread, I’m still looking at a trip to Ukraine in April – air fares are dropping, and the country seems to have a fairly good handle on things.
I’m over 60, yes, but no underlying health issues (unless you count all these steel and titanium components.) Statistically, I’m more likely to die driving to the airport.
Barbara
@Martin: You cannot stay operational — EMS personnel, nurses, doctors, even the laundry and food service workers would be perpetually at home with that kind of policy in place. People who don’t serve those kinds of functions should voluntarily stay home if they can, but requiring self-isolation is only possible when the number of cases is very small relative to the population.
Martin
@West of the Rockies: He’s the only person that gets more rational the more he drinks.
trollhattan
@Raoul:
Alex Jones behind bars for any amount of time is a gift to baby Jesus. That it was in Texas…[chef’s kiss]
gene108
@Aziz, light!:
I don’t think we’ll ever know the actual infection rate or number of people infected.
Researchers will be doing best guess approximations based on the testing data from other countries, who have responsibly responded to this outbreak.
Raoul
Yes!
trollhattan
@Martin:
Was a Weasley trick what gone awry that done it!
Raoul
@trollhattan: Them librul Austin cops, tho! Total conspiracy to deprive him of his liberty to booze and cruise.
Barbara
@Aziz, light!: I am definitely washing my hands more, but I have a separate office, so I don’t feel compelled — yet — to work from home. I still go to my gym, but mostly because it just offers classes, there is no gym equipment, and I am always three feet or more from other people. They are sanitizing all mats and soft and hard surfaces between all classes. They told everyone to wash hands before and after class.
I haven’t canceled plans but I was thinking about travel later this summer, and I have decided not to pursue it.
Gin & Tonic
Ladies and gentlemen, the estimable Daniel Dale presents the President of the United States.
Matt McIrvin
@gene108: We’re going to go straight from “tests aren’t available” to “this is endemic, there’s no point in testing everyone”.
chris
@patrick II:
The Surgeon General of the United States of America, Jerome Adams, aka Pence’s man from Indiana. Another great hire who told an interviewer that the preznit is in better shape than he is. He’s 45 and looks fairly well put together. Worth examining while you’re looking at Redfield.
bluehill
@Gin & Tonic: All of them, Katie.
Martin
Smart idea. NY is training school nurses to help with diagnostics. As we close schools, press them into broader service in their community. Everyone should be doing this.
John Revolta
@Matt McIrvin: Ah yes, the “Global Warming Gambit”.
dmsilev
@Gin & Tonic:
His MIT-physicist uncle would be so proud.
Ruckus
@Yutsano:
Words. Mouth. Right.Out. Of.
catclub
@Martin: Just having them confirm more hacks and idiots doesn’t solve anything.
Actually, even that is not enough. There are now many people ‘acting with the authority of’ who are NOT acting – which is time limited.
Mandalay
@Raoul:
Speaking of scumbags behind bars, Weinstein is being sentenced tomorrow morning. This is the latest (embarrassing) effort from his lawyers to win the judge over:
I don’t know how long his sentence will be – his lawyers are asking for the minimum of 5 years – but I think that he will leave prison in a box regardless.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
When you’ve already scraped the bottom of the barrel there’s only one direction left. Underneath the barrel.
catclub
@burnspbesq: Trump is not even pretending. He wants it to continue up to the election.
Is it needed all the way to the election?
Is it needed after the election?
doesn’t matter.
trollhattan
@Raoul:
“Ah’m just SO UPSET about them cancelling XSXW, ossifur!”
trollhattan
@Mandalay:
“should not be disregarded in total because of the jury’s verdict.”
What an elegant double-negative. Harv’s getting his money’s worth right there.
trollhattan
@Gin & Tonic:
Western edge of primitive map: “Here be numbers.”
Fair Economist
@Raoul: From what I see on twitter, preparing consists solely of stocking up on supplies. That will help people survive a forceable home quarantine, but as you say, won’t slow the arrival or need for said quarantine.
Another Scott
@germy: I think you may have buried the lede:
:-(
Cheers,
Scott.
MattF
@Mandalay: NYT article on Weinstein’s bad faith. Towards everyone. I’m glad he’s off the streets, but it wasn’t easy.
Brachiator
@Martin:
Is Trump talking about cutting the employee share of payroll taxes, the employer’s share, or both?
Fair Economist
@Matt McIrvin:
They’re trying, but do your best to not let them get away with it. The reality is the reverse – with such a dangerous disease to which nobody has immunity, if it’s really endemic we have to test EVERYBODY with a fever or a cough to prevent catastrophic infections of entire clinics or hospitals.
Martin
@Brachiator: Looks like both. May not matter, apparently his caucus thinks its a stupid idea.
Ruckus
@cain:
trump is running the country like one of his businesses. Very, very badly and right into the ground. He’s so fucking stupid he thinks he can declare bankruptcy and walk away.
Aardvark Cheeselog
@joel hanes:
This also is plausible.
Major Major Major Major
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
what this says to *me* is that it arrived first in a Washington nursing home.
mad citizen
Re: Biden’s swearing at a citizen. He picked a great news cycle to do it, it will be swallowed by Virus.
Also, I employ a Bill Murrayism: It Just Doesn’t Matter!
Major Major Major Major
@mad citizen: I am in favor of telling gun fondlers they’re full of shit.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major:
Me too. We keep telling our people to be tough and then get squeamish when they are.
Roger Moore
@Ruckus:
The truly scary part is that he probably can. If nothing else, he could leave the country and live in exile and probably avoid extradition if he picks the right country to run to. We’ll be left to pick up the pieces.
chris
124% increase in cases. Overnight.
Martin
Props to Bernie. He cancelled tonights Ohio rally over coronavirus concerns. Put aside alternate theories for why he did, that was the right decision for the right stated reason. Let’s take it as such.
Martin
@chris: 124% increase in testing. Overnight.
We’ll have a lot of this the next 1-2 weeks. We’re about to discover how widespread this actually is.
Major Major Major Major
@Martin: would it be wrong to start a pool?
Baud
@Martin: Yes. I thought earlier that if tonight is a really good one for Biden, there might be no more rallies.
Another Scott
@Brachiator:
There are a few sensible people also making the case for cutting the payroll tax:
Cheers,
Scott.
Immanentize
Expertise, rationality and competence are for losers!
What a den of Libtards.
Martin
Ok, more of this.
Artisanal craft sanitizer is a whole mood. There’s 6300 craft breweries in the US. That’s a lot of production capacity. Beats prisoners by a mile.
Chyron HR
@Martin:
There’s going to be Bernie rallies until the day he’s dead, otherwise the $27 tithes will dry up.
Sure Lurkalot
I canceled a 2-day trip to L.A. this weekend for my niece’s wedding. I waited until the last minute to make up my mind and not lose money on the hotel reservation. I will have a United credit for airfare to book another flight until next February.
I am a reasonably healthy 65 year old on no medications but I was too anxious about the flying, the hotel stay and the probably ridiculously remote chance of getting stuck in quarantine.
I feel badly about not being in attendance but moreso that usually a wedding is a time for hugging and dancing with relatives and strangers and that’s not going to be happening regardless. I told my niece, who expresses herself well, that she should write “Wedding in the Time of Corona”, but unfortunately, she didn’t get the reference.
dmsilev
@Martin: Agreed, and Biden should do the same.
And so should Trump, but we all know that will never happen.
Martin
@Baud: Biden needs to cancel his. Dude can’t stop shaking hands. I get it, it’s a habit. Get out of that space.
catclub
OT: The dollar had been quite strong, but in the past two weeks it has weakened noticeably against the Euro and the Yen. Anybody understand why? I thought the flight to T-Bills would make the dollar more in demand.
Yutsano
@Immanentize: A wretched hive of scum and villainy indeed.
Wait…
Martin
Biden’s is also cancelled. I wonder if the campaign mangers agreed to stand down.
Martin
@catclub: Cheap oil requires fewer petrodollars. Lower oil demand requires fewer yet.
Martin
@dmsilev: Trump can keep holding his. That seems like a worthwhile trade-off.
catclub
You can tell the lion by his claw.
When Leibniz posed a calculus problem, Newton sent in an answer anonymously – hence the lion quote.
I can tell it is Robert Reich by patents on drugs.
joel hanes
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
The data is pretty much statistically useless, because very little testing has been done, and the selection of people to test has been very skewed.
My take: Stanford spun up their own test, tested for a couple days, and immediately cancelled classes. I think that we’ll find that there are between 100 and 1000 undetected infections for every one that shows on the sfgate page.
Redshift
@germy:
Weird how the “the free market is best for everything” crowd are willfully blind to the fact that if you bail out the losers, it’s not a free market, and it doesn’t produce the benefits of one.
MJS
@Martin: Not sure breweries produce the same by-products distilleries do.
joel hanes
@Sure Lurkalot:
I commend your decision.
I’m 67, in Silicon Valley, and started isolating myself as much as possible yesterday.
No way would I get on a ship or go to an airport anytime soon. My family is supposed to go to Aruba at the end of June — I don’t think there’s any chance at all that it’ll even be possible to go.
Orange Is The New White
@Major Major Major Major: Lotta pearl clutching going on over that. “How will Dems get elected without reaching out to Trump voters?”
There’s no point in “reaching out” to people who would literally shoot a family member for voting Democratic, and Biden knows it, so might as well just start telling all of ’em they’re full of shit.
Martin
@catclub: This would be an excellent time for California to put the pedal down on the plan for the state to produce our own generics.
Major Major Major Major
Just went to the grocery. Didn’t check the housewares aisle but everything else was stocked normally. Lots of beans and ramen etc. Maybe the hoarding was a single wave…
Martin
@MJS: Oh, good point. They don’t. I guess I was assuming more were also distilleries.
The Dangerman
@Redshift:
Privatize the profits, socialize the losses is a sweet deal if you can get it.
LuciaMia
We can use any good news…
“Second person cured of HIV is still free of active virus two years later.”
trollhattan
@Martin:
Agree, it’s the right thing to do for the right reasons.
Kind of like McCain suspending his campaign to hustle back to D.C. to fix the recession. Okay, maybe not like that.
Orange Is The New White
@Martin: Problem: that plan was predicated on the raw materials being available from China. They may now not be. Now, I wouldn’t mind doubling down and making those too, but that’s not a trivial proposition. Nor cheap.
opiejeanne
@Martin: This is the first time I heard the name New Rochelle. I was about 17. In “How To Succeed in Business” Rosemary sings “Happy to Keep His Dinner Warm”
New Rochelle, New Rochelle,
That’s the place where the mansion will be
For me and the darling bright young man
I’ve picked out for marrying me.
joel hanes
@Major Major Major Major:
No bleach, nor any disinfecting cleaner, nor rubbing alcohol, nor sanitizer, nor hydrogen peroxide when I went yesterday morning early. Very little toilet paper. Garbanzos gone, kidney beans gone, lentils gone, many empty slots among the rice products.
MJS
@Orange Is The New White: It’s not the need to reach out to Trump voters. It’s the need to pick your battles, and not engage with a random audience member for any more than 10 seconds, especially when everything is filmed, and that person will do everything to catch you in a “gaffe.” “What you said is not correct”, and then engaging the next person who may vote for him is how this interaction should have gone.
trollhattan
@Martin:
Point of order: I think breweries would get into bigly trouble if they added distilling equipment to their production line.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@opiejeanne: New Rochelle to me is forever the home of Rob and Laura Petrie
Sanders and Biden have both cancelled rallies tonight. I think it will be a test for the Biden people if they can figure out some kind of on-line event to make up for it. I suspect Sanders team is a little more forward thinking in that regard
Martin
@Orange Is The New White: The cost to Medical is going to be massive. Cost is the least of our worries right now.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
Interesting article. I remeber the Make Work Pay credit. It didn’t do too much either way.
I agree, though, that the proposed payroll tax credit is not a great idea. And part of the idea here is that the nature of the problem is different. People who are forced to stay home may not be able to spend much, and another larger problem is the disruption of supply chains and the impact on all kinds of businesses.
The issues of paid leave, possible unemployment, potential medical costs, are much larger than a modest $400 or $800 credit.
And yeah, I don’t trust the Trump administration to restore any payroll taxes they might cut.
Immanentize
@Martin: Agree. Sadly this might just result in more commercial campaigning on TV and internet?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@trollhattan:
He canceled an appearance on Letterman saying he had to fly back to DC, then scheduled an interview with Katie Couric, on the same network, in the same building. Letterman aired in-house video of McCain in the make-up chair– not a good look for anybody– during his own taping. Letterman’s glee was a glorious thing to behold.
Martin
@trollhattan: Must vary by location. The closest craft brewery to me is also a distillery, which is why I was thinking it was more common.
Kids: don’t extrapolate from a sample of 1. You’ll look dumb.
trollhattan
@joel hanes:
My kid decided against going to Vegas for her soccer tournament weekend after next. Not because of plague fears but because she missed her 1,600m qualifying time for the state CIF track championships by a whopping 2 seconds, and needs to hit the mark that weekend at another track meet instead. (Hopefully they still hold said meet.)
Net plus in my book, because I was against the Vegas trip for the exposure possibilities.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Martin: I have a vague idea where New Rochelle is, having been born and grown up in NY. But my experience of the state is mostly right around NYC, or the far north part, the Erie Canal, the Adirondacks and the parts near Canada. The lower Hudson area is fly-over territory for me, or more accurately drive-through territory.
The main thing I knew about New Rochelle growing up was that it was where Rob Petrie (Dick van Dyke’s character) lived.
Immanentize
@Orange Is The New White: Insulin could easily be done
trollhattan
@Martin:
That’s a very cool pairing. ABC licenses for the two are very different, so it’s perhaps a rare bird. There could be federal ATF licensing for a distillery as well–this stuff gets complicated.
I blame Al Capone and Junior Johnson.
chopper
@Another Scott:
don’t see how effective a payroll tax cut is gonna be in fighting a supply-side slump but i’m no economics-talking guy.
catclub
I trust Nancy Pelosi to get this right. It has to be a change in law, anyway. Time it out.
Sure Lurkalot
@joel hanes: I did fly in February, as the Corona stories were just gaining traction. It was more of a no choice trip…a terminally ill sister who did pass away while I was with her.
This wedding was supposed to be the joy that comes after the trauma and I’m sad to say that I just didn’t feel the joy amid the anxiety.
It’s a shame there’s a good chance of your family missing out on lovely Aruba…I haven’t been to the A, but have been to the B and C of the ABC’s and there are lovely waters down there. Hope you can reschedule for better times.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
So we’ve tried to avoid the slippery slope of prepper-ism. But we just went out to reload the pantry and ended up spending nearly $400, “just in case”. Including the 20-pack of TP, that the guy was restocking because the shelves were completely cleaned out. Was going to get a 4-pack, but what the heck, the 20’s are more cost effective. And we do need more cleaning supplies. And we were out of produce, might as well get some extra and put it up.
The thing is, people are kind of self-quarantining everywhere around us despite there being only a couple of isolated positive cases. Universities are sending students and faculty home, offices are encouraging telework, etc. So being locked in seems like it’s kind of inevitable.
Plus I’m always kind of hoping to be locked in with the wife, though my preferred scenario is with a roaring blizzard outside and hot cocoa inside. Didn’t get so much as a flake of snow this winter, which in itself is almost as scary as the virus.
Major Major Major Major
@joel hanes: the pharmacies on Lexington are war zones but the neighborhood grocery is fine. Never ran out of wipes or came close to running out of soap. Commuters vs. residents I imagine.
jeffreyw
@Martin:
I don’t do that. I’m sure no one does!
Immanentize
Oh shit, my son’s friend who is returning from Haverford to Boston, reports that he was seated on the plane next to a guy from Italy who was wearing a mask and sweating profusely. He has asked to be moved…. The Quakers will have their meeting!
Raven Onthill
@UWVirology on Twitter:
Pass the word.
Barbara
@Redshift: It’s not an international energy shock attributable to COVID-19 disruptions. Clearly, that’s transitory. It’s Putin and MSB playing chicken at the OPEC conference. And his “loss” of $2 billion is not “fixed.” It’s not like he owes anyone $2 billion. It’s just that his assets are no longer worth as much as they were and Trump is worried that his buddy won’t feel quite as flush when it comes to campaign check writing time. But then, taking care of their own on the pretext of coping with a disaster is what they do.
zhena gogolia
So I got in a tiff with the lady at the veterinarian’s office. She was saying to a co-worker, “It’s not as bad as the flu . . .” and I went off on her! She said she heard it on Fox News. My husband was not happy with me. I ended up apologizing. Fox News is going to kill us all. But he said, “There are some things we can’t control.” I shouldn’t have done it, I’m just so on edge. Or if I did it I should have been more diplomatic.
catclub
@jeffreyw: …..wait a minute.
Roger Moore
@catclub:
I don’t know for sure, but I can hazard a guess: it reflects differences in our coronavirus response. Countries that manage the pandemic well will bounce back quickly and have functioning economies again pretty quickly. Countries that manage the pandemic poorly will have lingering problems that keep their economies from getting back on track.
Immanentize
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Not me, I just bought a diesel motorcycle!*
(kidding!)
* The ultimate prepper travel machine
Major Major Major Major
@Immanentize: as long as he didn’t get coughed on he ought to be fine… but eek!!
the person behind me on my flight last night was coughing a lot and eventually wrapped his sweatshirt around his face after I glared back a third time.
Gin & Tonic
@joel hanes: I was there the last week of Feb with no issues. Shit was just starting to hit the fan around the world, and we were more careful than usual in-flight, but we had a grand time.
Immanentize
@zhena gogolia: What you are upset about is not your message — but your delivery. I always try to parse that out after I embarrass myself at parties.
Martin
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: North on the 95 like you’re going to Connecticut, it’s the first town after you leave the Bronx. Next up Port Chester and Greenwich.
When we lived in CT we drove through there a million times heading to relatives in NY, but I was too little to register it. My girlfriend in college lived in Newtown, so I’d take the train up to visit with her and New Rochelle is a stop on that line.
Roger Moore
@Orange Is The New White:
This. It’s not just that there’s no point in reaching out to people who aren’t going to listen. It’s that our voters are tired of candidates bending over backward to try to impress people who are never going to give us a fair hearing. We want candidates who are going to bring the fight to the Republicans, and seeing Biden do just that is energizing. When our candidate fights for us, it makes us more willing to fight for him.
thalarctosMaritimus
@Another Scott:
Ah, I see the problem.
zhena gogolia
@Immanentize:
Yes, I really screwed up in my delivery. They were all smirking at me as if I were the nutjob. That doesn’t help get the message out.
jeffreyw
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Mrs J was needing bird seeds so we went to the local Rural King. The Kroger store is in the same development so we dropped in there while we were out. It was practically deserted. I told her to grab some TP, she said we just bought some three days ago, remember? I told her millions of panicking shoppers couldn’t be all wrong. I was meaning to look in the hand sanitizer aisle to see if they had some but forgot. One thing that did look hard hit was bananas
Cheryl Rofer
Immanentize
Speaking of great prepper instincts, I love the Immp so much! Yesterday, after shooting pool with his compadre, they were walking near Davis Square, Somerville (near Tufts University) and he spied what he thought was a discarded P.C. between two trash cans. So, of course he grabbed it and brought it home to scavenge. Turned out it was an eight bottle wine refrigerator. It was totally non-operational, but after a little you tube education, we were able to fire it up and good as new. I now have enough chilled white for two weeks in case we are isolated! What a good son!
The Dangerman
@MJS:
Mild disagreement; in the era of Trump, “WYSINC” doesn’t get any media.
FOS? Gets media.
There are clear limits. You can’t tell someone to FOAD, for example.
Martin
@Barbara: Not just that, but oil demand is falling FAST as people cancel trips, work from home, etc. Oil is fairly inelastic, so any drop in demand causes disproportionate price drops. That Putin and MBS have both decided to outproduce the other to drive prices below production cost is just adding to it.
ND and Alberta are fucked, but tough shit. We’ll get some free progress on climate change. Maybe it’ll stick.
Gin & Tonic
@Martin: Maybe she lived in Norwalk? Newtown is east of Danbury, which is on the Harlem line, while New Rochelle is on the New Haven Line.
Martin
@The Dangerman: Someone’s never lived in NYC. FOAD is your opener.
Raven Onthill
@zhena gogolia:
And when their grandmother dies, they will blame you for telling them the wrong way.
Me, I have a shelf of “you should have said it the right way” trophies.
Immanentize
@Cheryl Rofer: Did the doofus ask them to be fully engaged eight weeks ago? Did he convene a meeting of (as Ozark and I like to say) TOP MEN?
We are being ruled by the lowest quality hires.
Sure Lurkalot
@Major Major Major Major: I have flown a couple of times when I was really sick with cold and flu. I’m sure a lot of people do…especially when young and not a lot of money to be flexible. Besides, where do you want to be when you’re sick as a dog? HOME.
It’s miserable to fly with any kind of upper respiratory crud…it seems to worsen the sneezing, dripping and coughing. I hope the glaring worked though!
Kent
Is this thread still alive? The Bilgramage blog which covers politics from the perspective of an gay former priest has some interesting and detailed comments about the cadre of fundies that has been put in charge of the CDC. Not just Redfield, apparently there is a bunch of them. He quotes Digby’s Salon column and has a lot more details about the megachurch fawning over Trump’s performance on the coronavirus.
http://bilgrimage.blogspot.com/2020/03/pro-life-christians-may-yet-be-death-of.html
dww44
@Gin & Tonic: My bil, who’s visiting with us, wondered aloud why everyone was kowtowing to Trump. Spouse said that all those with principles and character long since left, freely or otherwise. We listened to it all and it was indeed kinda nauseating. Never in my life have I seen this behavior around any President and I’ve seen a good number of them. But wanna be King has been this way since the day after his inauguration. He expects everyone to bow and scrape in his very presence and beyond.
@Gin & Tonic:
Martin
@Gin & Tonic: She lived in Newtown but her dad would pick me up in Bridgeport. He was CT state police stationed out of there at the time. Cop dads always like a little time to chat with daughter’s boyfriend.
Immanentize
@dww44: There are still amazing professionals in the federal government who do no kowtowing to anyone. The ones I know are mostly EPA and DOJ. I think the ones G&T knows are mostly in State. But these fabulous people are not allowed out of their offices/cubes. Certainly not allowed to say anything outside the narrow confines of their job responsibilities.
Immanentize
@Martin:
Ain’t that the truth! Same with P.K.s
Baud
@Martin: He read your comment.
Immanentize
Mass. Governor declares State of Emergency based on large increase in likely CPAC-20 cases.
Immanentize
@Immanentize: And Governor Baker is the most cautious (often in a bad way) Pol I know.
Kent
Catholic Church closes the Our Lady of Lourdes healing pools due to coronavirus concerns. You would think if they had the integrity to stand by their beliefs they’d be keeping them open. I guess it takes something like the coronavirus to expose the fraud. https://catholicherald.co.uk/lourdes-shrine-closes-healing-pools-as-precaution-against-coronavirus/
Cheryl Rofer
@Kent: I’m not sure if the thread is still alive, but thanks for this.
Evangelical Christianity should take a big hit when this is all over, along with the other Trumpies.
debbie
Step 1: Check his bank accounts. //
Kent
It will be the opposite of course. Evangelicalism is like Republicanism. It can never fail, it can only be failed.
cckids
@Brachiator: Is Trump talking about cutting the employee share of payroll taxes, the employer’s share, or both?
And how does a payroll tax cut help those who are . . . just not working – laid off, furloughed w/out pay, small business owners whose cafe/dry cleaner/bar’s business just dropped off a cliff?
ETA: A bit of good news from Amazon:Amazon, along with many other tech companies, said it would continue to pay its hourly employees as its work from home policies were in effect. It also said it was subsidizing rent for businesses inside the buildings it owns. Today, Amazon announced it’s creating a $5 million Neighborhood Small Relief Fund to provide cash grants to local small businesses in need during the novel coronavirus outbreak, as well.The fund will be directed towards small businesses with fewer than 50 employees or less than $7 million in annual revenue, and with a physical presence within a few blocks of Regrade and South Lake Union office buildings. The businesses must be those that are open to the general public and that are reliant on foot traffic for customers.The businesses will be asked to share how much revenue they anticipate to lose during the month of March, and will be asked to back up that information in some way. Amazon will work with a third party to administer grant applications and distribute the funds.
Immanentize
@Cheryl Rofer: I think it is alive — I think that the Lourdes decision is a recognition that some who go there are tourists “taking the waters” while others are deeply religious people of faith who are suffering. My guess is that one would still be able to petition to enter the pools.
Otherwise, I agree. Megachurches especially should suffer. Maybe this is God’s way of putting Christ back into Christianity?
Another Scott
@chopper: Obviously, only negative capital gains taxes can fight that particular demon.
Cheers,
Scott.
cckids
Probably late for this, but Biden cancelled his before Bernie did.
Another Scott
@catclub: Dean Baker is the one who rides this particular hobby horse. ;-) He even has a free book about it (and other things).
Cheers,
Scott.
chris
Quite the hoax!
joel hanes
@trollhattan:
Hopefully they still hold said meet
I hope they don’t.
Kids will be heartbroken, and for some of them, there’ll never be another chance to shine like that.
But at least they’d be more likely to have living parents and grandparents six months from now.
Jay Noble
New Rochelle? Oh Rob!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_t6GSfInrQ
J R in WV
@Brachiator:
It doesn’t matter — if you have been quarantined, your salary is ZERO and your tax liability is also ZERO~!!!!~ Businesses will call that “laid off” and will not be providing salary, benefits, nothing —
What can the government tax if you aren’t earning anything?
If Trump gets away with this bullshit, there’s nothing he can’t steal.
I’m sure Pelosi won’t buy into this fraudulent scheme, as long as she can hang in there. Trump is a worm!!!
Yutsano
@Immanentize:
*waves*
Roger Moore
@cckids:
Magic. Tax cuts are a magic solution to every economic problem. Your lack of faith in them just proves you’re a heathen.
Martin
@cckids: Be willing to bet the managers talked to one another (they do that a lot) and decided that if they both cancelled, it’d even out, and be safest for all involved.
Martin
@chris: Note the corporate owned qualifier. Not sure I’ve ever been in a non-franchise one.
But it sets the right precedent. Hopefully the franchises will follow suit as their employees complain.
joel hanes
@Cheryl Rofer:
Evangelical Christianity should take a big hit when this is all over
Fundagelical Protestantism has already been taking a big hit, for some time, because young people find it unattractive.
Coronavirus is going to kill off a big tranche of the oldest believers, particularly if they get their health advice from Fox.
J R in WV
@Martin:
Yes. But we’re talking about distilleries, not breweries. Breweries can’t get much better than 15% alcohol. Distilleries get much closer to pure ethanol, and the “heads and tails” of the still run, the first part and the last part, aren’t very potable, but would be fine for sanitizer. They have other alcohols besides ethanol, which are not healthy for the drinkers, taste bad, cause hangovers, etc.
Martin
Tax cuts are thus far the only action Trump has offered in response to an epidemic.
Heywood J.
We still don’t know why the CDC decided to develop its own test for SARS-CoV-2.
zhena gogolia
@Martin:
I think they’re modeling good behavior.
zhena gogolia
@Yutsano:
Yay!
The Lodger
@Martin: I don’t think anyone living east of Palm Springs would actually call it “the 95.”
Roger Moore
@Martin:
Trump doesn’t care about people dying; he only cares about whether he’s losing money.
Dan B
@germy: The good burghers of Wuhan and mullahs of Iran are overcome with joy thst their gay pride parades are finally being acknowledged.
(Pssst.: When is the Onion getting on this?)