Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

Americans barely caring about Afghanistan is so last month.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

Bark louder, little dog.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

Come on, man.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

A dilettante blog from the great progressive state of West Virginia.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

A Senator Walker would also be an insult to reason, rationality, and decency.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

“Squeaker” McCarthy

You can’t love your country only when you win.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

Infrastructure week. at last.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Democratic Primary Debate Open Thread Part II: VP Biden Breaks Some News

Democratic Primary Debate Open Thread Part II: VP Biden Breaks Some News

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VP Biden has now committed that if he is the nominee, his vice presidential running mate will be a woman. And that he is committed to putting the first African American woman on the Supreme Court. Senator Sanders has committed to most likely choose a woman as his running mate were he to get the nomination, but he needs to ensure that it is a progressive woman.

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

347Comments

  2. 2.

    Kent

    Is it just me or is Biden kicking his ass?  Really feels like it to me.  But I may be biased.

  6. 6.

    Mary G

    @Kent: No. I agree. Biden looks like an old guy who may have slowed a step, but still has all of his marbles, and is willing to move left. Bernie looks like Bernie.

  7. 7.

    lamh36

    I suspect the campaign already have someone in mind or at the very least a good list to chose from.

    Hopefully someone young enough to bring the party forward and NOT someone as old as he.  The Dem party needs it.

  8. 8.

    mali muso

    Wish the election was yesterday. I’m ready for Uncle Joe now. Please stop the crazy!

  9. 9.

    nwerner

    they they should both commit to Liz Warren for VP to ensure a unified party and a truly hysterical vice presidential debate.

  14. 14.

    dmsilev

    @Kent: In retrospect, Bernieville spending the last couple of weeks pushing the “Biden is going to drool over himself after the first five minutes” theme may have been a tad counterproductive.

  15. 15.

    Hoodie

    @Kent: I’m probably biased, but I’d agree. Joe started trying to be nice to Bernie, but when Bernie starts dredging up 30 year old votes to show his saintly but inconsequential purity, Joe gave up trying to be nice.

  16. 16.

    Ken

    @Elizabelle: Question about the last thread.  You wrote:

    Only felonies committed in the US? Ummmm ….

    I’m not watching the debates so have no context, could you clarify?

  24. 24.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Wilmer just said “who cares” about rejoining the Paris Climate Accord!

     

    Kook!

  25. 25.

    Raven Onthill

    I’ve just written an article, “In Praise of Joseph Robinette Biden Jr:” https://adviceunasked.blogspot.com/2020/03/in-praise-of-joseph-robinette-biden-jr.html. Damn, I hate being politic.

    I also asked myself, “How many Senators – those old mostly men – are likely to die of COVID-19?” So I did some calculations, and got two or three for an answer. I titled the article “1,000 Plagues on the Senate” and you can read it here: https://adviceunasked.blogspot.com/2020/03/covid-19-1000-plagues-on-senate.html. It even has a cool (well, it took some effort anyway) graph.

  26. 26.

    Jeffro

    Per the primary poll numbers in the next several big states, this race is over.

    Per Biden’s certainty vs Sanders’ hedging about a female VP, this race is over.

    Let’s get on with it and unleash the full firepower of this battle sta…er…Democratic Justice League…on trumpov and his gang of looters, idiots, and malicious neo-Nazis.

  31. 31.

    Ken

    @EthylEster: No, to be Trumpian, Adam would have had to correct the original post, then reply at 10 with a vociferous denial that there was ever anything wrong with it.  Describing those who pointed out the errors as “criminals” is optional.

    @Adam L Silverman: Two errors; you still have “running mater”.

  32. 32.

    lamh36

    I have a feeling the lack of an audience is making the contrast between the two starker than ever. It’s also allowing Biden to be focused on one thing…seeming Presidential and focusing on Bernie without seeming like he’s attacking

  33. 33.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    The visuals are so lopsided.

    Biden standing confidently at the podium, while Wilmer flails his arms around like a crazy guy on the subway.

  35. 35.

    Kent

    @dmsilev:@Kent: In retrospect, Bernieville spending the last couple of weeks pushing the “Biden is going to drool over himself after the first five minutes” theme may have been a tad counterproductive.

    Yes, major fuckup on their part.  Lowering expectations.  They don’t know how this game is played.

  36. 36.

    TS (the original)

    I’m way behind, still on the last thread

     

    he is committed to putting the first African American woman on the Supreme Court.

    Anyone mentioned Michelle Obama?

  38. 38.

    dmsilev

    I doubt this debate is going to change very many minds, on either side. That’s pretty much the end for Bernie then.

  41. 41.

    Kent

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:

    The visuals are so lopsided.

    Biden standing confidently at the podium, while Wilmer flails his arms around like a crazy guy on the subway.

    Good point.  Every time the pan back and you see them both, Biden is standing there dignified and ramrod straight.   Sanders is just hunched over like a troll, waiving his arms about.  It is striking when you point it out.

  44. 44.

    trollhattan

    This would have been a dream come true.

    Despite emergency declarations due to the coronavirus pandemic, the California Republican Assembly plans to move forward with a large gathering of over 200 people in Tulare County [Devin’s district] next weekend.

    To make matters worse, the group’s leader is publicly deriding coronavirus concerns as “an overreaction,” according to a story by Politico’s Carla Marinucci. CRA Executive Director Carl Brickey told Marinucci that, despite the public health emergency, CRA won’t cancel because “it’s not warranted at this time.” He says the group has advised elderly and ill attendees to use their “best judgment.”

    “What’s going to happen when we truly have a public health crisis?” Brickey asked, rebuffing coronavirus concerns. “People will just go, ‘Oh jeez,’ and they won’t take it seriously.”

    The Visalia conference will feature speeches from conservative figures like former Trump advisors Steve Bannon and George Papadopolous. Brickey, dismissing the advice of doctors and scientists, said CRA members have a “historical perspective” because they lived through past outbreaks of SARS and swine flu.

    Regrettably, a Tweet indicates they’ve cancelled.

  45. 45.

    Elizabelle

    @Ken:   It was Biden’s only criteria for deporting a foreign national (aka illegal alien).  I was thinking that their having committed actual felonies abroad, or in their home countries, could be a fine reason for deporting them.

  47. 47.

    dnfree

    We are watching this, and Bernie keeps emphatically rgesturing and accusing. He’s hard to listen to. My husband just commented that if you were in his cabinet, it would be hard to disagree with him or make a point. You can see why it’s hard for him to work with others to get things done.

  49. 49.

    Kent

    @dmsilev:I doubt this debate is going to change very many minds, on either side. That’s pretty much the end for Bernie then.

    Bernie’s numbers have been tanking day by day by day since Super Tuesday.  Nothing here is going to reverse that.  Nothing.  He is behind by 25-40 points in every state coming up this Tuesday.

  52. 52.

    Ohio Mom

    Do we need a betting pool for who Biden has chosen for his VP: Kamala Harris? Stacey Abrams? Who else?

  53. 53.

    lamh36

    @jmeacham

    More

    Don’t care what your politics, @JoeBiden is fulfilling presidential role of reassurance without mindless optimism.

    7:22 PM – 15 Mar 2020

  54. 54.

    Kent

    @Elizabelle:@Ken:   It was Biden’s only criteria for deporting a foreign national (aka illegal alien).  I was thinking that their having committed actual felonies abroad, or in their home countries, could be a fine reason for deporting them.

    That’s called extradition, not deportation.  Separate processes.

  55. 55.

    Elizabelle

    @lamh36:   I prefer this without an audience.

    Bring back the League of Women Voters, and drop the audience.

    And now, more blessed silence during the commercial break.

  56. 56.

    John S.

    @Chris Wolf: Either that or Kamala Harris. I’m leaning towards it being Harris because 1) she’s more aligned with Joe ideologically and 2) she’s better positioned to succeed him.

  57. 57.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Hoodie:

    I’m probably biased, but I’d agree. Joe started trying to be nice to Bernie, but when Bernie starts dredging up 30 year old votes to show his saintly but inconsequential purity, Joe gave up trying to be nice.

    I’m not watching, and even reading this thread I’m breaking my self-imposed rule about reading things that aren’t politics, on paper, for at least an hour a day, but… remember this is a debate where all the leaks were about how Bernie likes Joe and didn’t want to do any damage in this debate. He can’t not piss people off.

  58. 58.

    Luthe

    And that he is committed to putting the first African American woman on the Supreme Court.

    I don’t think Anita Hill will accept the job. /snark

    Seriously, Biden has read the tea leaves and seen the hunger for a woman in the Executive Branch. He’s playing smart here.

  60. 60.

    Elizabelle

    @Kent:   Good catch.  Although, haven’t we deported some Nazis, and barely gotten their home government to take them??  Not like they were requesting we send them back.

  61. 61.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Shorter Bernie:  “What’s the Frequency, Kenneth?”

  63. 63.

    dmsilev

    @Ohio Mom: My guess is Harris. That might be wishful thinking on my part since she was my first choice when this primary started 35,000 years ago.

  64. 64.

    WaterGirl

    @Kent: Nothing here could.  But if people who support Biden stay home to be safe and Bernie’s young pups vote?  I don’t take anything for granted.

    It’s not over until people fucking cast their votes.

    (Not being crabby at you.)

  65. 65.

    mali muso

    Kamala Harris was my pick for top of the ticket originally, so I’m rooting for her to be his running mate. Make it so!

  67. 67.

    lamh36

    @Ohio Mom:I actually think the depth of names for VP is def longer than the names for AA SCOTUS…but hey…I’ve got two names that’ll fill both…I’m already know who I’d choose for VP….but can anyone say “SCOTUS Justice Letitia James”!!!

  69. 69.

    Martin

    @Elizabelle: A hell of a lot of refugees that have come to the US are because of political crimes in other countries – speaking out against the government, etc.

    It’s tricky.

  72. 72.

    trnc

    @Ohio Mom: Do we need a betting pool for who Biden has chosen for his VP: Kamala Harris? Stacey Abrams? Who else?

    Those seem like great choices, although I’d be happy to see Harris as AG.

  76. 76.

    Miss Bianca

    @dmsilev:

    In retrospect, Bernieville spending the last couple of weeks pushing the “Biden is going to drool over himself after the first five minutes” theme may have been a tad counterproductive.

    Gee, ya think? >: >

  82. 82.

    James E Powell

    So, let’s get into the hot stove speculation. Who will it be?

    Harris? Warren? Klobuchar? Abrams? Gillibrand? Baldwin? Duckworth?

  86. 86.

    Kent

    @Ohio Mom:Do we need a betting pool for who Biden has chosen for his VP: Kamala Harris? Stacey Abrams? Who else?

    There’s at least 10 I can think off of the top of my head:

    Warren, Harris, Abrams, Klobuchar, Val Demings, Gina Raimondo (gov of RI),  Tammy Duckworth, and there are a variety of other bright congresswomen.

  89. 89.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Bernie can’t bring himself to committing to a female running mate, but has no problem defending Fidel Castro.

  91. 91.

    lamh36

    So what exactly was Bernie’s game plan for this debate?

    Whatever it was Biden committing to a female VP threw him for a loop.

    And guess what…Biden camp reiterated the pledge with this tweet!

    @JoeBiden

    Following Following @JoeBiden
    More
    My running mate will be a woman. #DemDebate

    8:10 PM – 15 Mar 2020

  92. 92.

    mad citizen

    @Baud: Yup.  I didn’t read about the Detroit rally, but figured it was a test run to see how Joe felt with having Harris on stage with him.  Abrams is simply too inexperienced, it does not compute.

    Still keeping my Kamala sticker on the back of my vehicle.

  93. 93.

    Ken

    @trollhattan: Brickey, dismissing the advice of doctors and scientists, said CRA members have a “historical perspective” because they lived through past outbreaks of SARS and swine flu.

    So the CRA members think all the doctors and scientists are under 17.  Good to know.

    I’ve been thinking that a big problem with covid is the same one we have with the anti-vax movement – the remarkable success of medical science in the twentieth century.  Not enough people have lived through a pandemic, so they have no idea what used to happen.

    And to make things a little worse, the few people that remember measles and polio are the prime Fox News demographic.

  95. 95.

    joel hanes

    @trollhattan:

    Devin Nunes was on TG last night, interviewed by Bartiromo, urging people to go to restaurants, playing down the threat of the pandemic.   Bartiromo nodded approvingly.

  99. 99.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    He can’t help himself.  He can’t resist defending the Chinese Communist Party

  101. 101.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
    You ain’t going to make it with anyone anyhow

  102. 102.

    Kent

    @WaterGirl:

    @Kent: Nothing here could.  But if people who support Biden stay home to be safe and Bernie’s young pups vote?  I don’t take anything for granted.

    It’s not over until people fucking cast their votes.

    (Not being crabby at you.)

    College students are scattered all across the country with their universities closing left and right.  I’m not sure how that is going to work.  They are the ones who’s votes are going to be most disrupted by this crisis.

  103. 103.

    JanieM

    @nwerner:

    they they should both commit to Liz Warren for VP to ensure a unified party and a truly hysterical vice presidential debate.

    That made me laugh out loud. I would love to see it, even though in the longer run I don’t think VP is the right role for Warren.

  108. 108.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud:

    At Joe’s Michigan rally, Booker introduced Kamala who introduced Joe.

    I wonder if Mike Pence is very nervous these days, or just resigned. And if Nikki Haley is as smart as I think she is and Pence has no reason to worry.

  112. 112.

    joel hanes

    @lamh36:

    SCOTUS Justice Letitia James

    I’d love it, but even more I want her in NY AG for all of 2021 to do the front work to the grand juries impanelled to indict Trump and cronies.

  114. 114.

    Marcopolo

    Goddamnit you two old fools fucking pivot to Trump!

    So fucking frustrating watching this.

  119. 119.

    trollhattan

    @JanieM:

    Oh god, Liz would strangle Mike with his own dick and not break a sweat. “Karen, would you care to come collect Mike?”

    A two 70+ ticket will never happen. They know better.

  120. 120.

    Morzer

    @Kent: I feel that this entire debate has consisted of Sanders desperately scrambling up a tree and yelling “Stump speech!” while a prowling Joe Biden growls and flashes his sharp white teeth.

  124. 124.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Marcopolo: Don’t make me fight you over our governor. //

    This state rivals MIssissippi in nearly all poverty metrics. We’re digging our way out of a 8-year hole created by a miserable Republican governor (redundant, I know). We need Lujan Grisham here more than Joe needs her.

  126. 126.

    trnc

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: She’s an excellent Senator.

    Absolutely, and I think she would continue to be a great senator, but some of my favorite senate moments have been her prosecutor-like questions of Barr, etc.

  127. 127.

    Chris Wolf

    @John S.:  Can’t be a sitting Senator. Too risky

    Though less risky because I know California won’t elect, or the Governor won’t appoint a republican.

  130. 130.

    Kent

    @JanieM:That made me laugh out loud. I would love to see it, even though in the longer run I don’t think VP is the right role for Warren.

    The next VP stands a very strong chance of being the next President.  More so in any time in the past 100 years other than when an elderly and ailing FDR chose Truman during the middle of WW2.

    Whomever Biden picks is very likely the next president in 2024 or earlier.

    I also expect Biden to do more delegating of duties to the VP than any president in modern history (except may for Bush’s delegation of the war to Cheney).

  131. 131.

    Elizabelle

    Yea.  Biden makes it clear.  He is a Democrat with Capital D.

    Enough of this Leap year Democrat at the other podium.

  134. 134.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    ignores question about Blacks and goes back to stump speech

  136. 136.

    Kathleen

    I think it will be Harris. The reason I say this is because when I saw her in the front line of the Selma march with John Lewis I felt that was especially symbolic and I got a strong hunch.

  138. 138.

    Elizabelle

    @Chris Wolf:   From California?

    No problem whatsoever.  Kamala would be replaced with a Democrat.  Governor is a Dem.

    Other states:  caution, caution.

  140. 140.

    Marcopolo

    @O. Felix Culpa: Assume a fair part of that is the Native American pop, but it’s kinda crazy when you consider NM has either the highest or close to educational attainment per capita in the nation.

  142. 142.

    WaterGirl

    Biden will choose a black woman as VP.  Remember, Clyburn has someone strongly in mind.  Clyburn bent Joe’s ear on this, Joe obviously respects him, PLUS Biden owes Clyburn for Biden still being in the race.

  143. 143.

    Ken

    @Adam L Silverman: I’ll add them to the list I started compiling in the last thread, of groups Sheriff Clarke says are trying to destroy capitalism.  Gee, with the Catholic Church, Major League Baseball, Disney Corporation, and the federal government’s HR department all allied in this nefarious plot, they just might pull it off.

  144. 144.

    mrmoshpotato

    Joe: “The energy and excitement has been for me.”

    ROFLMAO!  Bernie, feel the burn!

  146. 146.

    WaterGirl

    I have touched my face a few times during the debate.  Have you all been able to train yourselves to never touch your face.  I rubbed my eyes today, twice, before I caught myself.  Luckily at home, at least.

  151. 151.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Marcopolo: Those are retirees who moved here and people who worked at the labs. New Mexico schools rank at or near the bottom of the barrel. Native American poverty is significant but it’s not limited to that group.

  155. 155.

    lamh36

    “A Democrat with a capital D” –Biden

    “Big turnout has been for me — and I had no money!”

  157. 157.

    Raven Onthill

    Dear VP Biden: the Cold War is over. And, yes, you did vote for the invasion of Iraq.

    Sigh.

    Oh, and health care for everyone is too expensive. In the middle of an epidemic you say this, Joe?

  158. 158.

    Another Scott

    @Elizabelle: It was clear and direct and will get some pushback.

    But I can see the logic in it.

    So many of the places that people are fleeing have legal systems that have, er, questionable standards (or questionable implementations of those standards).  If someone lives a sensible life here, their past convictions elsewhere shouldn’t be an automatic deportation offense here if they’re fleeing for their lives.  (If a country wants to do some sort of extradition request, that’s a different issue.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  159. 159.

    Marcopolo

    @WaterGirl: Whenever I wash my hands I take the opportunity of having clean hands to touch my face as much as I want for the next couple minutes. Gets it out of my system.

  163. 163.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @WaterGirl:

    I sometimes scratch my face. I figure as long as I don’t stick my fingers in my mouth/nose, touch my lips, or rub my eyes, it’s ok

  166. 166.

    Morzer

    @Baud: I am rather perplexed by the sudden strategic brilliance of Joe Biden. For weeks now I have been assured that he was senile and ready for a nursing home – and here he is mauling Bernie Sanders without mercy!

  167. 167.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    our enemies are all those in league with imperialism–the warlords, the bureaucrats, the big landlord class and the reactionary section of the intelligentsia attached to them. The leading force in our revolution is the industrial proletariat. Our closest friends are the entire semi-proletariat and petty bourgeoisie.

    Who said this Bernie or John Candy in “Volunteers”?

  168. 168.

    Kent

    @WaterGirl:@Kent: Good point.  I guess we shouldn’t count our chickens just yet.

    My daughter in college already voted in the WA mail-in primary from her college in Fayetteville AR two weeks ago.  I mailed her ballot to her and she mailed it in.  But students in school in places like IL, OH, and FL that are coming up Tuesday?  How are they going to vote if they’ve gone home out of state?  Those aren’t mail-in voting states and probably too late to get absentee ballots.  It’s a cluster fuck. But it will mostly hurt the Sanders vote in the primary.

    Hopefully by Nov we will be back to more normalcy.

  169. 169.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Bernie: “We are winning the ideological struggle.”

    he keeps saying that. He’s been endorsed I believe by one fellow Senator, and that was last time, and those candidates we’re all hoping will give us the Senate majority are wishing he would retire to one of his VT residences to begin dictating his memoirs.

  177. 177.

    Ken

    @mrmoshpotato: Bernie: “We are winning the ideological struggle.” LOL

    I’ll give him partial credit, but it’s mostly because people have finally had the California experience – living under a unified Republican government that implements all the things it threatened promised for years.  (Well, almost all – curious how they always forget to do anything about abortion.)

    But only partial credit, because Sanders still thinks that he and his “movement” are part of that “we”.

  180. 180.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Kent: Which is why, as a RI resident, I’d cross Gina off your list. She just doesn’t have national-level gravitas, IMO.

  182. 182.

    Dan B

    @O. Felix Culpa: Thursday night we and our friends decided on Val Demings.  She’s Florida, a vet I believe, was a police chief, and picked by Adam Schiff to the impeachment crew.

  185. 185.

    hueyplong

    When an old white guy says his VP will be a woman and he’s committed to an AA female SCOTUS nominee, my money gets put on a white woman for VP.

     

    Just saying.

     

    (I don’t actually like to gamble.)

  186. 186.

    Kent

    Biden instantly projects empathy with suffering Americans in his closing statement.  Bernie does his stump speech.  The tone could not be more different.

  187. 187.

    Percysowner

    I’m guessing Klobachar or maybe Stacy Adams for VP, Harris as the Supreme Court pick.

  192. 192.

    Kent

    @Percysowner:I’m guessing Klobachar or maybe Stacy Adams for VP, Harris as the Supreme Court pick.

    Supreme court pick will be some young judge. There are plenty.

  195. 195.

    WaterGirl

    I was SO disappointed when Obama chose Biden as VP instead of Kathleen Sebelius.  I actually cried when I got the text from Obama at 5 am that Saturday morning.

    Then drove to Springfield for the announcement speech with Obama and Biden later that morning.  But Joe was a good pick, much better than Sebelius would have been.  So if Joe doesn’t pick my first choice, I will try to roll with the punches.

  196. 196.

    Adam L Silverman

    So Biden stays on the stage to chit chat with the debate moderators while Sanders walks off with a scowl.

  200. 200.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Debates end.

    Biden on stage talking to panel.

    Bernie walks off in huff of frustration.

  205. 205.

    Morzer

    @Percysowner: I think Harris would be much better on SCOTUS.  I wonder whether Gillibrand might be under consideration for the VP role. She strikes as being a pretty good pick if you want to reassure recently converted suburban Republican women and keeping her seat wouldn’t be a problem.

  207. 207.

    Jinchi

    @hueyplong: my money gets put on a white woman for VP.

    I think that was done to keep his options open. I still think Biden would strongly like an AA woman as his running mate. He can choose his vice president, but there’s no guarantee that he’d ever get a Supreme Court nominee if Mitch is still majority leader next year. Certainly no guarantee that Mitch would OK a minority woman. He’d much rather negotiate for an 80 year old white man, instead.

  211. 211.

    Elizabelle

    The tragedy of this debate is that we still have to wait almost a year until we have a better administration in office.

    I kind of wish we had a parliamentary system.  Trump would be gone on no confidence.

  212. 212.

    trollhattan

    @Percysowner:

    Picking Klobuchar would be a message to me that they believe they need to flip those elusive Obama-Trump voters. I wouldn’t be impressed by the move.

  213. 213.

    lamh36

    I know I may be biased at this point, but I know which one of these answers sound more Presidential.

    @Yamiche
    What’s your closing message to those concerned or affected by coronavirus?

    @BernieSanders: We need to make sure ppl have healthcare & resources they need. It’s time to ask of where the power is in America. Who owns media? Why do we pump up oil industry with so much homelessness?

    @Yamiche
    What’s your closing message to those concerned or affected by coronavirus?

    @JoeBiden: We need to bring ppl together & make sacrifices. We need to listen to scientists and pull together best minds in the world to figure out how to save lives. Need to also deal w/ economic issues.

  215. 215.

    Elizabelle

    @Jinchi:   If Mitch obstructs, just seat the Justice after a reasonable period of time and have the USSC toss him/her.  Terrible, terrible precedent with Merrick Garland.

  220. 220.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud:   LOL.  I think all five, but just kinda glanced.

    Wouldn’t it be something if Sanders avoided because he’s ill.  Not rumor-mongering.  It just occurred to me ….

  223. 223.

    Jeffro

    OR…outside chance…Tammy Duckworth for VP.

    Biden will need someone who can be on fire and blasting the trumpov maladministration, every day, while he pops up from time to time as the face of unity (both Dem and U.S.)

  226. 226.

    Jinchi

    @Elizabelle: I kind of wish we had a parliamentary system.

    I see Boris Johnson and Narendra Modi and Benjamin Netanyahu and I have no faith that the parliamentary system is better at removing bad leaders.

  229. 229.

    M31

    hahahah if Biden picks Gillibrand do you think Hillary will run for her old Senate seat again?

  230. 230.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Elizabelle: Actually thanks to Newt Gingrich and Mitch McConnell, we do have a parliament. Which is why Congress is broken because our system isn’t set up for a parliament.

  233. 233.

    M31

    HAHAHAHA Hillary can chair some Benghazi investigations in the new Democratic majority, I’d pay good money to see that

  236. 236.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Morzer: I’m not sure putting them all on the high protein, high fat diet that sumo wrestlers eat is going to really solve the problem.

  238. 238.

    Raven Onthill

    @Adam L Silverman: the mods are on Biden’s side. No surprise there.

    Biden…is making it hard for me to support him. He is so obviously frozen in time. But, it is older voters who will decide.

    As to China: yes, they are authoritarian. But China, just as Sanders said, is lifting its people out of poverty, and has made a good response to the coronavirus, and the USA is pushing its people back into poverty, has been for 40 years, and is failing in its coronavirus response. (Don’t ask the Uighurs what they think, though, if you want to defend China.)

    For 170 years socialists have been telling us: pay attention to material circumstances. For 170 publics have been paying more attention to … to … almost anything but. This is an old story.

  240. 240.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    As to China: yes, they are authoritarian. But China, just as Sanders said, is lifting its people out of poverty, and has made a good response to the coronavirus, and the USA is pushing its people back into poverty, has been for 40 years, and is failing in its coronavirus response. (Don’t ask the Uighurs what they think, though, if you want to defend China.)

    Extremely Twitter Nixon voice: My god. My god.

  243. 243.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Raven Onthill:

    You should’ve just stopped after you said “but China…”

    The Chinese government tried to suppress information about this outbreak from the start until it was untenable to do so.

  244. 244.

    Another Scott

    @Jinchi: +1

    Israel has trouble actually forming a majority government, also too.

    Belgium, also, too, too.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  247. 247.

    Raven Onthill

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: address the arguments, if you can. It doesn’t matter whether or not you answer me – it is the world that must be persuaded. Right now, the world is looking on as China responds to the coronavirus, and the USA does not.

    Who do you think looks better?

  252. 252.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Raven Onthill: Actually the world is looking on as South Korea is doing what it is doing and wondering how much of the information that China has put out can actually be trusted. It also looked on as video was made available showing the PRC’s draconian responses. Draconian responses that were and are only possible because it is a police state.

  253. 253.

    Raven Onthill

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    they did finally respond, though. We had two bloody months warning, did nothing, and still aren’t doing enough.

    Understand, I have no brief for Xi Jinping and the Chinese Communists, but I think we have to recognize their real accomplishments, if only because they are our rivals and it does no good to underestimate a rival.

  254. 254.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Raven Onthill:

    It’s all Trump’s fault. Trump was not legitimately elected president. Russian interference tipped the scales in his favor.

    Edit: Also what Adam said above. ROK has done a really good job. Part of it was luck too; they did aggressive quarantining/contact tracing early on and a lot of cases were confined to that church/cult

  256. 256.

    Another Scott

    @Raven Onthill: China joining the WTO – IOW, Capitalism – is what brought so many out of poverty so quickly.  I don’t think St. Bernard mentioned that, because it doesn’t fit his stump speech.

    HTH.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  257. 257.

    Jeffro

    @Mary G: wow.

    So I guess the list now is all professional and college sports leagues, major hotel chains, Patagonia, Apple, anyplace with over 50 people…just closing up shop for a month or more.

    Move over, ‘Great Recession’…

    But

    Her

    Emails

    There is no way on earth the orange moron gets out of this without being the most-reviled president* in U.S. history, bar none.

    NOT THAT MANY OF US HAVEN’T SEEN THIS COMING!

    FOR FIVE F-‘in YEARS!!

  258. 258.

    Martin

    @Raven Onthill: Didn’t we lift people out of poverty 150 years earlier?

    China has only achieved this by reducing their levels of socialism in pretty substantial measure. And it’s odd that he’s praising China when they (surprisingly) don’t have single payer there.

    That’s not a defense of the current state of capitalism in the US, but a nations with more wide-ranging socialist policies are places like India and Brazil, neither of which is a paragon of poverty reduction or income equality.

    The problem isn’t that we need a lot more socialism, it’s that we need to restrain capitalism from it’s tendency toward excess, with some socialism sewn in.

  260. 260.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Gantz is center to center right. He used to be the Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces. Where he is better than Bibi is that he’s willing to include the Joint List, which is a coalition of the Arab parties in his government. My guess is that while he won’t make major changes in the settlement policy – no Israeli PM ever has, not even Rabin while he was negotiating peace – what he will do is NOT annex parts of the West Bank. He’s also, as far as I know, not a crook or corrupt, which Bibi definitely is.

  261. 261.

    Raven Onthill

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Not just Russians, unfortunately. It is so easy to blame outsiders, but it is wrong. The USA is not a weak power, to be overwhelmed by a simple propaganda onslaught. There was 40 years of buildup to get the country to this point. The Republicans didn’t magically turn into fascists when Trump was elected; they were trying to become fascists for a long time.

  262. 262.

    Another Scott

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I’m no Israeli politics expert, but I would guess that it depends on his coalition.  It would take a miracle for Israel to significantly change its policies in the region.

    Haaretz might be a good place to look around.

    HTH.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  263. 263.

    Mary G

    This story from Italy is quite remarkable if true "Italian hospital saves Covid-19 patients lives by 3D printing valves for reanimation devices — The supply chain was broken, people and 3D printing rose to the occasion" https://t.co/Q5SfXxbrkm— The Restart Project (@RestartProject) March 15, 2020

  265. 265.

    Mary G

    During the peak of the Spanish Flu epidemic of 1918, WB Yeats refused entry to his Dublin home to Maud Gonne, who had been his muse and a great love of his life. I told my wife this story earlier as I was setting up her sleeping bag in the garage.— Declan Lawn (@DecLawn) March 11, 2020

  266. 266.

    lamh36

    Welp…you can tell when Bernie had a bad night…the resident BJ Bernie cultist come through late in a long azz thread of comments to speak spread their delusions…

    Good night BJ…back at work in the lab tomorrow, bound to be a long day still trying to get our Corovirus protocol in better place

  269. 269.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Another Scott: He could just read the answer from the person at Balloon Juice who worked on the 2014 Israeli-Palestinian peace process. But that might just be crazy talk.

  270. 270.

    sdhays

    @Jeffro: I don’t know if I’d say “has to be”, but I think it’s a really compelling ticket. Biden was at his absolute best running with Obama, and I think Harris would bring back that dynamic.

  271. 271.

    Raven Onthill

    Sanders is right now talking sense on health care to Anderson Cooper. Naturally no-one will pay attention.

    I have no idea why Biden thinks McConnell will be any easier on him than on Obama. Or maybe he doesn’t think that.

  275. 275.

    tam1MI

    @Raven Onthill: Right now, the US, marginally.  Our government hasn’t executed a doctor trying to tell people the truth about the outbreak.*

     

     

    ‘* – Yet.

  276. 276.

    Ken

    @Adam L Silverman: One of my fantasies is that the next Democratic president announces the US embassy will be moving back to Tel Aviv “unless of course Mr. Adelson is willing to make another contribution.”

    BTW did we ever take any concrete steps to move the embassy to Jerusalem?

  278. 278.

    Raven Onthill

    @Martin: no. It was what you might call social democracy during the 1930s followed by the command economy of the 1940s war that finally compressed the income distribution of the USA. Since 1980 that has been reversed, and we are back at Gilded Age levels of income inequality.

  280. 280.

    Immanentize

    @Ken: My fantasy is that we keep the embassy move to Jerusalem, but then add an embassy in East Jerusalem to the Palestinian State.

  281. 281.

    Feathers

    Wait. We’re not supposed to touch our faces at home? I thought this was just outside of the house. I live alone, have done a deep clean, and have only left the house twice in the last two weeks. I hate hand sanitizers, but I have a good sized box of disposable gloves that I am going to start wearing when I go out. Am I cool?

  282. 282.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Ken: If I was in a position to advise the next president on Israeli policy, what I would recommend is the following:

    1. The Consulate General in Jerusalem (the US’s oldest diplomatic outpost and the de facto diplomatic mission to the Palestinians) be reestablished.
    2. The US Embassy to Israel will be relocated to Tel Aviv.

    I have a lot of other thoughts, but if I put them in this comment, I’ll never ever be confirmable by the Senate.

  283. 283.

    Raven Onthill

    I’m supporting Biden, remember? I even wrote a post about his virtues. But Sanders is right about a lot of things, and we should pay attention.

    And Biden is wrong on health care.

    Do we really want to repeat the mistakes of the past four decades?

  291. 291.

    Adam L Silverman

    @sdhays: I’m not, largely because I highly doubt the Senate would confirm someone who had beaten several of its members to death with their desks during his confirmation hearing.//

  293. 293.

    Feathers

    @Ken: @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Thanks. That makes sense. Ugh. I realized as I was falling asleep the other night that I had my hand against my cheek. Never noticed before. Will have to thoroughly wash my hands before going to bed.

  294. 294.

    joel hanes

    @Kelly:

    whenever I wash my hands I wash my face

    This.

    And so when my face itches, I go wash my hands, and then my face.

  296. 296.

    TS (the original)

    @Jinchi:

     if Mitch is still majority leader next year

    After what he has done in regard to Judges and SCOTUS, and what he hasn’t done in regard to everything else, leaving a GOP Senate in power is much the same as re-electing trump. The US will have nowhere lower to go.

  297. 297.

    Ken

    @Adam L Silverman: if I put them in this comment, I’ll never ever be confirmable by the Senate.

    Oh, that’s no problem. Just marry the President’s daughter, then you can do whatever you want in the administration without a Senate confirmation or a security clearance.

  299. 299.

    J R in WV

    @Raven Onthill:

    Right now, the world is looking on as China responds to the coronavirus, and the USA does not.

    Who do you think looks better?

    We can’t know!

    China is lying about things, we don’t know about those same things because we haven’t tested.

    Everyone looks terrible right now but South Korea and Singapore…

  302. 302.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Raven Onthill: As I wrote last week, while we can’t know exactly how, the country is going to be a different country by June, let alone November or next year because of the novel Coronavirus, the President’s toxic leadership, and his administration’s inept and incompetent response.

  303. 303.

    Raven Onthill

    @tam1MI: has China done that? Li Wenliang was harassed and forced to recant (and later died of COVID-19), but I don’t recall seeing that any doctors were actually executed.

    I am genuinely fearful for Dr. Helen Chu, the Seattle researcher who broke the news about COVID-19 in the USA.

  305. 305.

    joel hanes

    @Mary G:

    WB Yeats … Maud Gonne

    And what of her that took
    All till my youth was gone
    With scarce a pitying look?
    How could I praise that one?
    When day begins to break
    I count my good and bad,
    Being wakeful for her sake,
    Remembering what she had,
    What eagle look still shows,
    While from my heart’s root
    So great a sweetness flows
    I shake from head to foot.

  306. 306.

    prostratedragon

    Whenever I’m reminded that Tulare is Nunes’s district I then recall that Hitchcock and his writer reportedly had it in mind for Marian Crane’s last destination.

  309. 309.

    Marcopolo

    If folks have seen those tweets about what people did when in isolation due to disease (Newton invented Calculus; Shakespeare wrote King Lear), I think you’ll agree with me that this is both really bad and really good:

    If you're worried about what to do while you're quarantined, remember that while he was in isolation, Mathematician Theodore Kaczynski completed more than 16 successful technical projects and wrote a 35 thousand word essay that was published in the New York Times.— PearlRiverFlow (@PearlRiverFlow) March 14, 2020

  310. 310.

    Kent

    @Raven Onthill:

    @tam1MI: has China done that? Li Wenliang was harassed and forced to recant (and later died of COVID-19), but I don’t recall seeing that any doctors were actually executed.

    I am genuinely fearful for Dr. Helen Chu, the Seattle researcher who broke the news about COVID-19 in the USA.

    Some of the Chinese who criticized Xi over coronavirus have apparently disappeared.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/chinese-executive-who-called-xi-a-clown-over-coronavirus-response-is-missing

  315. 315.

    Brachiator

    @nwerner:

    they they should both commit to Liz Warren for VP to ensure a unified party and a truly hysterical vice presidential debate.

    I greatly respect Warren, but she doesn’t seem to have that many committed supporters. If Biden picked her as his VP, that would be good. But she is not necessarily at the top of the list.

     

    ETA. And yes I know a lot of folks think it best if she continues as a senator.

  316. 316.

    Elizabelle

    @Marcopolo:   That is funny in a very bad way.

     

    @Ruckus:  Scout’s honor.  Him was behaving.  And then he did a non-shouting interview with Anderson Cooper about 20 minutes later.

  317. 317.

    Martin

    South Korea installing thermal cameras in schools so they can spot which kids have fevers.

  320. 320.

    Brachiator

    @Kent:

    Some of the Chinese who criticized Xi over coronavirus have apparently disappeared

    You know Trump would like to do something similar with his critics.

  325. 325.

    Brachiator

    @Raven Onthill:

    I’m supporting Biden, remember? I even wrote a post about his virtues. But Sanders is right about a lot of things, and we should pay attention.

    I guess I must have missed it. I find that Sanders is nothing more but a lot of empty posturing. I think he has done more harm than good to the progressive movement.

  326. 326.

    Princess Leia

    No more gatherings of more than 50 people for the next EIGHT weeks….

    “Guidance as of 3/15/2020

    CDC, in accordance with its guidance for large events and mass gatherings, recommends that for the next 8 weeks, organizers (whether groups or individuals) cancel or postpone in-person events that consist of 50 people or more throughout the United States.”

  330. 330.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I’m supporting Biden, remember? I even wrote a post about his virtues.

    Sighs of relief and prayers of gratitude all through Wilmington, I am sure.

  331. 331.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Yes, somebody else besides me got the reference!

    We could be looking at Poe’s Law here.

    Though it should be noted, pretty much all of Rumiko Takahashi’s characters are assholes of legendary proportions. Kinda like Seinfeld

  333. 333.

    Brachiator

    @Mary G:

    This story from Italy is quite remarkable if true “Italian hospital saves Covid-19 patients lives by 3D printing valves for reanimation devices — The supply chain was broken, people and 3D printing rose to the occasion”

    And I read recently that some French perfume companies are going to start making hand sanitizers. For free.

    The world is recovering from shock and getting busy working to beat this virus.

  336. 336.

    L85NJGT

    Kid at the grocery said he did seventeen hours yesterday, as they were press ganging staff to stock after hours.

  339. 339.

    Morzer

    @Raven Onthill: No sensible person trusts any official numbers coming out of China on any topic, whether it be the economy, the coronavirus or, for that matter, air pollution.

  343. 343.

    Raven Onthill

    @Brachiator: I am not sure anyone can do any good for the progressive movement; it is too heavily mired in wrong beliefs.

    Look: since Karl Marx, socialism or progressivism or whatever you want to call it has focused on the material conditions of life. And there is no doubt that improving these conditions improve lives. But that has not persuaded the public to be progressive.

    There’s a disconnect: on the one hand, according to Converse’s work (and I don’t think matters have changed much since he first published) the largest plurality makes its voting decisions based on what he called “group identification” and what we would now call representation. But any good or bad we get from government comes from policy and from the conduct and character of the people who govern.

    Ideally, democracy should create a bridge between the two; the candidate you feel you could have a beer with (or would like to have in your sewing circle) should also be, or be able to pick, the people whose policies will be good for you. In practice, we get affinity scammers: Reagan and Trump and the like, but also various Democratic leaders, though they are less toxic.

    And every now and again, a great leader slips through the haze of self-regard, but it’s not common.

    A successful progressive movement, if such a thing ever comes to pass, would combine the sense that the various leaders and elected officials were people you could trust with policy wisdom and, well, we’re still working on that.

  344. 344.

    cain

    @trollhattan:

    Thats too bad – I would have let them have it and let them have our “Please proceed, governor” moment. If it wasn’t for the fact that these assholes are going to make public health worse I would have prayed for casualties.

    I seriously don’t know why we bother being concerned.

  345. 345.

    PJ

    @Raven Onthill: I think the thing is that minority parties which want to be controlling parties by any means necessary can only do that through violence and illegal activity, which means some kind of totalitarian rule (governed by the threat of violence and oppression of “out” groups, not the rule of law).  Republicans, electorally speaking, have been a minority party since the mid-00’s, and their members are dwindling.  Betraying their country to the Russians and defending a corrupt and incompetent Administration are part of the “any means necessary” to retain control.

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