I haven’t been writing here because, frankly, I just have a limit to how much stupidity I can tolerate, and the Trump Administration and Republican governors have gone so far beyond that I just tune most of it out. That said, I wanted to check in to give a counterpoint to Betty’s excellent run-down of what’s happening in Florida.
I’ve been watching Andrew Cuomo’s briefings, and reading local media. We are in deep shit here, but at least we’re fighting back, and Cuomo is leading the fight. It may not make a difference — we may be overwhelmed, but goddamit we are not going down without a hell of a fight, and what kind of state are we if we just roll over?
It’s not like New York is a sterling example of success. Our unemployment site shit the bed, too, but anyone paying attention to Cuomo’s press conference knows the person in charge, knows that the volume was two orders of magnitude more than usual, and knows what is being done to fix it.
We’ll probably run out of ventilators. Today, Cuomo authorized the National Guard to go to hospitals and pick up ventilators so the state can re-allocated them. Anesthesia machines have ventilators, and we’re using as many of them as we can. A hospital system on Long Island is 3D printing adapters so BiPAP machines can be used on intubated patients as a form of a ventilator. The other day Cuomo held up a bag and valve mask and talked about training National Guard personnel to use them on patients. We’re experimenting with using one ventilator for two patients. Will any of this work? It might, and we’re trying.
PPE is in desperately short supply. Today, Cuomo held up a N-95 mask and a gown and again asked any New York company to step forward and start making them. I know it’s not as easy as he says it is, but I hope that we develop some kind of homegrown supply. One success story in Rochester: at the request of our local health system, a plastic manufacturer has started making face shields for medical personnel.
We have over 80,000 retired medical staff who have volunteered to come out of retirement and work. After Cuomo asked for help from other states a couple of days ago, over 10,000 out-of-staters have volunteered. He’s promised that we will return the favor to other states once the apex passes our state.
We are treating our hospital systems as one resource, and transferring patients upstate when downstate facilities fill up. Medical personnel from upstate are rotating through the hot zones, and Cuomo regularly praises their bravery.
Aside from New Yorkers working together, the other theme of Cuomo’s press conferences is the almost complete uselessness of the federal government. The federal temporary hospitals that were set up were initially barred from seeing COVID patients, the theory being that they would take the non-COVID patients from regular hospitals so those hospitals could concentrate on COVID patients. There are few non-COVID patients in hospitals right now (people staying inside really cuts down on accidents and injuries). Cuomo announced today that he convinced Trump to convert the temporary hospital at the Javits center to a COVID hospital. The USNS Comfort currently has 20 patients because it is mired in red tape. It will probably be a floating COVID ward soon — Cuomo is good at working Trump. Cuomo’s criticism for the federal government is diffuse, while his praise for Trump is specific, which is the only way to deal with that madman.
There have always been incompetent shitheads in military leadership, and there have been good leaders who have lost battles. In New York (like Washington State, and California, and other blue and some red states), we have a good leader. We may lose this battle, but if I or someone close to me dies from COVID, at least I’ll know that New York did our best plus a little more. I don’t know what more I can ask for, even though I mourn the deaths caused by Republican stupidity.
E.
I just hope people notice. I hope people notice that there is a difference between a government that cares about its people and a government that cares about its friends.
trollhattan
Nerd alert: MIT students cobble together a ventilator using $100 of standard medical equipment. Can be done isn’t the same as will be done, but out-of-the-box thinking is needed.
joel hanes
If COVID-19 patients are admitted to the Comfort, it will become a deathtrap for the healthcare workers.
We must have learned by now that ships are not designed to allow for isolation of people with a wildly-infectious virus. Haven’t we? Do we really need another example ?
Brachiator
A wonderful post.
The governor and his staff are doing a great job. Not enough good things can be said about them.
We have also been fortunate in California to have a governor who has risen to the challenge. The local officials down here in Southern California have also done an excellent job. They have been creative and innovative in addressing challenges.
But yeah, the New York governor is a wonderful example of leadership, doing everything he possibly can for the people of his state.
trollhattan
@joel hanes:
I’d want to know if the ship is properly fitted out as a hospital especially WRT the HVAC system. IIUC cruise ship don’t have discrete systems for each stateroom and the virus freely circulates, making them floating plague factories. Perhaps Comfort isn’t susceptible to easy spreading?
It still seems risky, but so does a popup tent in a parking lot.
joel hanes
Credit where it’s due:
Republican governors DeWine and Hogan have been mostly sane and foresighted and responsible.
I wish I could say the same about Iowa’s Gov. Reynolds, who still has not imposed anything beyond closure of the schools. My family’s there, and practicing shelter-in-place to the extent possible, but an essential job puts some members at extreme risk, and the growth curve of COVID-19 fatalities in Iowa put it in the early stages of a grim outbreak.
joel hanes
@trollhattan:
My understanding is that the Comfort has normal shipboard ventilation. It’s not a new vessel (originally a tanker, built 1975, converted to a hospital ship before 1990), its refitting was interrupted, and its facilities were designed with combat surgery and trauma in mind, not with a wildly-infectious disease that spreads via airborne droplets.
Even if the ventilation were to be hospital-like, the crew quarters and mess and the corridors simply don’t allow the required isolation.
skerry
@trollhattan: The hospital ships are not outfitted for contagious diseased patients. They are for trauma patients. The Navy said no COVID19 patients should be housed onboard.
narya
I also have to credit JB here in Illinois–based on some data I was browsing this morning, we mayyyyybe are flattening the curve a bit; too soon to know for sure, of course. I can say that on my morning runs, other runners are being very aware of physical distancing (we veer away from each other), though the dog walkers are so very not. Luckily, the roads are seriously empty, so I can veer into the street. I continue to be grateful for my personal situation, and wishing I could do more to help the low-wage folks who are struggling.
A Ghost to Most
I read a story saying that c19 is exploding in Buffalo, but everyone is fixated on NYC, so they are getting very little help. Cuomo should pay attention to the rest of the state as well.
Mandalay
@mistermix:
Florida?
MazeDancer .
Anyone – adult or child – in NYC can get 3 free meals a day.
Just have to go to a designated school and pick them up.
No one will be turned away. Never been prouder of paying such high taxes.
A Ghost to Most
@narya: order takeout. Takeout is the new war bonds. My mission is to order out way too often.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
There are companies which manufacture full face snorkel masks. While I know their assembly lines aren’t up to that much volume, the templates and raw material could be of some use for some quicky shielding.
eddie blake
the gop has ALWAYS hated nyc,except for the one BRIEF moment after 9/11 when it served their PROPAGANDA purposes to (pretend to) love my city.
they don’t give a rat’s ASS about us and, i’m sure would be chill if the entire CITY died.
Kattails
I cannot fathom the level of absolute arrogance it takes to BE Jared Kushner, to BE Donald Trump, it’s beyond anything I can even begin to wrap my head around. That Kushner could claim that Federal resources do not belong to the citizens of this country, and a federal website was, within 24 hours, ALTERED to reflect that horseshit, has me so aghast I am near tears.
I’ve felt somewhat badly about avoiding staying in touch with a couple of people who are right wingers; my sister has been more forgiving and able to tune things out. Now I’m fine with it. I know a woman who didn’t vote for either Hillary or Trump because they were “equally bad” or some such crap. I’d run into her at my job and have to keep my mouth shut, but now, out of work? No way.
Trying to center myself in order to make a rational call to my governor’s office. He’s an R. and should have some standing to push back against some of this monumentally egregious garbage. And should do so in the interests of the nation.
Matt McIrvin
@joel hanes: Charlie Baker is… eh, could be better, could be a lot worse. He’s been reluctant to issue a mandatory lockdown for what I think are ideological reasons (though in practice there probably isn’t a huge difference between that and his advisory one, given the difficulty of enforcement), and I get the impression he’s been at odds with Boston mayor Marty Walsh over how much to shut down. And he was at least a week or two late with some of this. But compared to the shitshow in Florida or Georgia he’s a brilliant statesman.
The situation in Massachusetts is on the bad side, though, and I think he needs to do more than he has.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@narya:
I’ve been amazed, and seriously annoyed, at the number of joggers and bikers and walkers who still feel the need to be side-by-side so they can chat while they exercise. Can you really not be in your own head for thirty to sixty minutes?
Cheryl Rofer
This is a good explanation of how equipment must be allocated in an emergency. It sounds like what Governor Cuomo is doing and the feds are not.
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
My husband and I walk side by side because we live in the same house so what difference does it make? I assume that’s the situation with other people I see walking together — they’re in the same household.
Ohio Mom
Joel Hanes@6: I especially miss Kay (if you are lurking Kay, I’m waving) whenever DeWine comes up — would love to hear her perspective on what’s going on in our state, especially the botched primary.
I sometimes fear this episode of American history will be used in the future as an example to school children of how wise the Founders were in setting up the federalist system instead of being used as an example of the dangers of the Electoral College and the perniciousness of the modern Republican Party. This is because a full twelve years of witnessing the right wing history curriculum taught to Ohio Son has made me very cynical about the uses to which history is put.
But still, it turns out there is indeed wisdom in decentralizing power.
JoyceH
@Kattails: They ALTERED the website? Well, don’t worry – there are screen shots. And altering the website will be proof of malicious intent, and come in handy when Jared is put on trial post Jan 2021.
Bill Arnold
Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks (Nature Medicine, 03 April 2020)
Surgical face masks significantly reduced detection of influenza virus RNA in respiratory droplets and coronavirus RNA in aerosols, with a trend toward reduced detection of coronavirus RNA in respiratory droplets. Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals.
(pdf)
There have been earlier studies and the evidence has been moderately convincing IMO.
(Some instant reactions, all but the first positive.
expert reaction to a study about facemask effectiveness (April 3, 2020))
Fucking public health authorities in some countries (like the US) had to wait for studies like this to start shifting their dogma. Dogma kills, dogma in a deadly pandemic kills massively.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@A Ghost to Most:
coronavirus.health.ny.gov/county-county-breakdown-positive-cases
Erie (Buffalo) has 667 cases. New York city has 52K, Nassau (Long Island) 11K. Concentrating on downstate is the right play at the moment. Buffalo is not being inundated.
senyordave
The first question at every WH briefing should be “what is Jared Kushner’s role, and what are his qualifications?”
Nicole
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Or at least pay fucking attention so you can split and go single file if another person is coming towards you. I agree; it’s infuriating.
The other ones that get my goat are the people who are STILL GLUED TO THEIR PHONE SCREEN so they’re weaving back and forth all over the path like a drunkard and you can’t anticipate which way they’re moving. For that, they came outside?
download my app in the app store mistermix
@joel hanes: The Javits temporary hospital is just a bunch of beds separated by flimsy plastic dividers on a huge conference center floor. This is where we’re at right now.
Nicole
@zhena gogolia: I totally get that; my frustration is when couples or families won’t take 5 seconds to go single file to make room for people passing them or coming the other direction. I wish they’d pay attention to their surroundings and show some consideration to their fellow NYC’ers.
(Though I excuse kids out on their bikes or scooters or just running around from this; it’s my job as an adult to weave around them. This situation is stressful enough for them without people like me expecting them to become instant adults)
TriassicSands
@joel hanes:
Ohio has tried to use the pandemic to deny women safe and legal abortions.
Kristine
@Cheryl Rofer: I listened to that. Incredible.
Screw “look ahead, not back.” People need to go to jail after this.
Kattails
@JoyceH: Yes, I have a screen shot of the original. After Kushner’s talk last night someone posted the original to refute the lie. Then today, Laura Basssett saying “folks, this is some extreme gaslighting”. Nevertheless, it is horrifying that a federal website could be altered in such a manner.
smintheus
Here’s another of those deaths caused by Trump’s incompetence, the great jazz guitarist Bucky Pizzarelli. He played in a style that hearkened back to the pioneers of the 20s and 30s including George Van Epps and Freddie Green.
washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/bucky-pizzarelli-whose-guitar-mastery-extended-to-seven-strings-…
MomSense
@MazeDancer .:
I started crying when my son read the email from his school principal about the Wednesday pick up of food and clean laundry. The principal is communicating directly with kids so they can contact him if they need help – including any abuse situations. We have kids who don’t have laundry capability and who normally do laundry at school so the teachers are now doing it for them. The bus drivers are delivering to the kids without transportation. Our schools are the most important social institution.
NYCMT
One of the unwilling victims of the coronavirus in New York was my wife’s grandmother Shirley Rosenzweig Spilke, who died early this morning in White Plains Hospital at the age of 96. She lived in Riverwalk, the assisted living center of the Hebrew Home for the Aged in Riverdale, which was put on isolation a month ago.
Last Thursday, she tripped on her bathroom rug and fell in her bathroom, and was taken to St. Joseph’s in Yonkers, where she waited for two days waiting for orthopaedic hip surgery.
Her daughter, a lawyer for the State Department of health at Helen Hayes in Rockland, and her niece, a prominent Westchester physician, could not get her transferred to another hospital until Sunday, when she was moved to White Plains hospital, and where she was operated on the same day.
She came down with coronavirus symptoms on Monday, was unresponsive Tuesday, rallied on Wednesday, and died this morning.
Elizabelle
@NYCMT: How sad. My condolences.
Litlebritdifrnt
Cut and pasted from downstairs:
There is a story coming out in dribs and drabs and no one seems to be connecting the dots. Early on in the crisis (when the shitgibbon was calling it a hoax) the US shipped a bunch of medical PPE and equipment to China. China then sent the same type of equipment to Russia. Russia has now “sold” the equipment etc., to the US. Did the US Government just buy back its own equipment in order to line Putin’s pockets?
Miss Bianca
@NYCMT: so sorry to hear it. My condolences.
A Ghost to Most
Washington Post begs to differ with you, MM.
WNY is where NYC was 2-3 weeks ago, according to the article.
JoyceH
@Kattails: The Washington Post already has a story up about the altering of the website, with before and after screenshots.
Miss Bianca
@Litlebritdifrnt: going down that rabbit hole right now might be more than my tiny brain can handle.
JoyceH
@Litlebritdifrnt: Can’t Putin get coronavirus? Please please please? We all saw that photo of him touring the hospital in head to toe protective gear. But before he donned the protective gear, he spoke with and shook hands with the hospital’s administrator, who has now tested positive.
Soprano2
Speaking of Iowa, I heard a story about the Des Moines water treatment plant this week. The workers are living in trailers on the site, working two weeks on and two weeks off. They’re rotating because a lot of them have special training that’s hard to replace, and obviously water treatment is the very definition of essential. I just looked, and our old head of the street department is still the head of the public works department in Des Moines.
Brachiator
@senyordave:
Or better,”When will Young Jared be replaced by someone who is actually qualified and knows what they are doing?”
Ruckus
@joel hanes:
Neither is any naval vessel set up for infectious disease. The concept is to close them to the outside world, seal them up tight to warfare agents. And water. In ripe conditions we would every so often have an air bedding day. Everything out in the sun like on a clothes line, to get rid of the smell of filthy humans as much as possible. And several weeks without a shower creates filthy, smelly humans. Really, really filthy, really, really smelly humans.
Immanentize
@Cheryl Rofer: It is pretty clear that the administration’s only concern is maximum profits. I swear Milo Minderbinder survived the war and is in charge of PPE sales and distribution. That video is clear but sad. At least it suggests that there are competent people in this country who could be doing the right thing.
Tenar Arha
@NYCMT: My condolences & may her memory be a blessing.
smintheus
@narya: Recently I complained to my wife that while walking down our normally deserted country roads I was passed by multiple joggers or just nitwits walking together – all of them too close for comfort and almost certainly NY/NJ refugees. One infuriating encounter was on a tiny dirt lane only about 5 feet across; without a word to them I waved quickly as I veered off the lane, but grandpa decides he needs to stop to explain to me how I “just missed several deer crossing the road”. As if I don’t see deer in my garden every damn day.
Anyway, my wife suggested that I go back to doing something I adopted the first year of our marriage, when we lived in Athens. The drivers there are so aggressive and indifferent to the safety of pedestrians – even when you’re on sidewalks – that I started carrying around a short wooden pole with some kind of rusty metal tip that I found on a street. Anytime there were cars passing or we needed to cross a street, I dropped the pole to the horizontal and … lo and behold, cars suddenly became totally deferential. They’d give us a wide circuit because even if they didn’t care about our lives, they didn’t want the paint on their cars scratched. I guess it was enforced mechanical distancing. Would work with the nitwits out taking the air too.
CaseyL
@NYCMT: I am so sorry. Thank you for speaking of her, telling us about her.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
Who could possibly be better qualified than young jared?
Let’s see……
A monkey at the zoo……
A drunk wino……….
An average 12 yr old…….
Several republican dipshits that I know……..
Almost anyfuckingbody…………
narya
@A Ghost to Most: I have SO much food (that is my normal situation–I get a farm share, a fish share, and the Rancho Gordo bean club shipments, plus have a friend who supplies venison and wild turkey), so I’ve resisted that. However! My local CSB (community supported brewery) has a sale (some growlers for $10) and will deliver if you order at least four, so I think I know what I am going to buy. And, of course, the local food bank.
Nicole
@NYCMT: I’m so sorry.
Hungry Joe
Why not use the hospital ships for non-infectious-disease patients, to free up beds for those with Coronavirus?
japa21
One of my niece’s (wife’s side of the family) became a registered nurse last year in Northern Wisconsin at the age of 47. She tells everyone she meets that she wants to follow in my wife’s footsteps.
A couple days ago she received an official offer from NY to go there for six weeks, be given quarantine housing and be paid $6,000 per week.
She has not decided.
Immanentize
@smintheus: My son and I thought about attaching yard sticks to each arm and waving them around is people got to close. Science! Measuring device!
Ruckus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
How about if they are family and live together in the same house? They are together the other 23 1/2 hrs of the day, will this make any real difference?
Elizabelle
@Hungry Joe: That’s the existing plan.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Oh, for anyone who is interested, putting PPP SBA processing in the hands of your friendly neighborhood local banks is a fucking nightmare of epic proportions. They’re claiming to have zero guidance (this was supposed to be simple and seamless), but are of course, ever on the watch for potential irregularities in any aspect of the paperwork which they’re demanding, which is a small mountain.
You have to cough up a drivers license, a passport, your employee’s W2s, all four quarters of 2019 reports of income in addition to the W2s, the UI reporting for 2019, your Articles of Organization, your bylaws/operating agreements, a spreadsheet to their formatting detailing the relationship of all of these things. Oh, and you do owe them their simple application and the attachments.
Keep in mind, you’re starting from a bank where you already have to have an existing relationship.
Fuck these people. I’m ready to spraypaint anarchy symbols and break bank windows.
smintheus
@NYCMT: That’s terribly sad, my condolences to you and your family. I’m afraid that similar stories are playing out all over the world now.
Immanentize
@NYCMT: ugh. So hard for you all. My mom is in a transitional facility Upstate. She has a nice apartment there, but is basically locked in except she can go to the laundry on her floor. I worry so.
NotMax
@Ruckus
Cue Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.
;)
smintheus
@Immanentize: Do your yardsticks have rusty metal tips? Then I say go for it!
JoyceH
@Hungry Joe: “Why not use the hospital ships for non-infectious-disease patients, to free up beds for those with Coronavirus?”
That was the original intent, but there are a lot fewer non-infectious patients than there usually are. Elective surgeries are cancelled, and with the stay at home orders, there are fewer auto accident victims, etc. The hospital populations are heavily weighted to coronavirus now.
Kattails
@Cheryl Rofer: That was terrific, thanks for posting it.
Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)
@smintheus: Good for you. I couldn’t decide if I should carry a tape measure or a sword cane. Looks like the sword cane’s the winner.
smintheus
@Bill Arnold: I read that and found it strongly reassuring that we could control the spread of this disease if everyone wore simple cloth facemasks.
Robert Sneddon
@Hungry Joe: The problem is when they admit someone for, say, a broken leg and after they’ve got them on the ship and in an ER getting the leg set and plastered the person starts coughing repeatedly and only then mentions they’ve got a bit of a fever and… the result is yet another plagueliner situation.
They’d have to do a swab test of active coronavirus infection on everyone they admit and that takes time, equipment, materials, technicians etc. Basically the authorities can start with a non-COVID-19 treatment centre like the hospital ships but the nature of the disease means that eventually that centre will be dealing with coronavirus-infected people.
The UK is building out overflow “hospitals” in conference centres around the country. They’re all expected to handle COVID-19 patients, they can’t keep them out because of the nature of the disease.
taumaturgo
Has anyone here heard of this populist movement going on in WV? This is something the Democrats should emulate around the country. theintercept.com/2020/04/03/stephen-smith-west-virginia-governor-coronavirus/
Mandalay
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Is this what you are talking about, from February 7?….
If there is a silver lining to that gigantic fuckup, it is that Pompeo can never become president after doing that.
Reporters can ask him: “Sir, when you gave away those vital medical supplies to China, were you already aware that they would be desperately needed here, or were you completely fucking clueless?”
Kind of like Have you stopped beating your wife?, but better.
NotMax
@Immanentize
Or anti-cologne.
Eau de Skunque, Antique Egg, Bold Brimstone, Summer Effluentica.
:)
Robert Sneddon
@smintheus: The British government’s advice is that masks are useless to stop the spread of coronavirus, at least for the general public. This may be an attempt to stop people thinking that if they have a mask on they are bulletproof and can go out, meet with friends etc.
If people think they have coronavirus they shouldn’t be going out anyway so the masks are useless and may be self-defeating.
Suzanne
I hate Jared Kushner SO MUCH. Like, I am incandescent with white-hot rage. That failson piece of SHIT. Saying he read a fucking book and now he’s smarter and that people who actually worked in a fucking profession for their entire adult lives are LYING about needing life-saving equipment?! GOD. Someone just punch that motherfucker in the face, over and over again, until he’s unrecognizable and has to drink his meals.
Elizabelle
NY Times article, that’s probably free as part of their coronavirus package. The 1,000-Bed Comfort Was Supposed to Aid New York. It Has 20 Patients.
“It’s a joke,” said a top hospital executive, whose facilities are packed with coronavirus patients.
The existing regulations are no COVID patients, although one officer suggests the Comfort could be fitted to accept infectious patients. The Navy has also issued a set of 49 other conditions (not specified in article) that it is forbidden to treat. And, as JoyceH said, not as many illnesses/injuries to treat — allegedly — since people are staying home.
Only 20 patients had been transferred to the ship, officials said, even as New York hospitals struggled to find space for the thousands infected with the coronavirus. Another Navy hospital ship, the U.S.N.S. Mercy, docked in Los Angeles, has had a total of 15 patients, officials said.
… Ambulances cannot take patients directly to the Comfort; they must first deliver patients to a city hospital for a lengthy evaluation — including a test for the virus — and then pick them up again for transport to the ship.
[And think how we’re hearing of people who test negative for the virus and develop its symptoms one to three days later.]
Capt. Patrick Amersbach, the commanding officer of the medical personnel aboard the Comfort, said at a news conference that, for now, his orders were to accept only patients who had tested negative for the virus. If ordered to accept coronavirus patients, he said, the ship could be reconfigured to make that happen. “If our mission shifts, we do what we can to meet that mission,” he said.
From the outset, readying the hospital ship for use in a pandemic proved a challenge. The Comfort was built to operate in battlefield conditions, and its physicians accustomed to treating young, otherwise healthy soldiers suffering from injuries related to gunshots and bomb blasts. Most people who are hospitalized with Covid-19 are older and infected with a novel pathogen that even the world’s top medical researchers do not fully understand.
Any outbreak on board could quickly spread and disable the ship’s operations. As a precaution, the ship’s crew isolated for two weeks before embarking on their mission to New York. They must remain onboard for the duration of their mission in New York.
The ship has struggled to fulfill civilian missions in the past. After Hurricane Maria pummeled Puerto Rico in 2017, the Comfort was sent to relieve overextended hospitals, but ended up treating only a handful of patients each day.
A military physician who had previously served on the Navy’s hospital ships said in an interview that conditions on board were suitable for soldiers, but, with its narrow bunked cots instead of modern hospital beds, it was not ideal for treating civilians.
Link to the previous article about the Comfort and Puerto Rico, which probably is behind the paywall. Reading that now to summarize it for you.
zhena gogolia
@Nicole:
Yes. We constantly cross to the other side of the road when we see someone coming in the distance.
Sad part is not being able to pet people’s beautiful dogs as we pass.
Nettoyeur
@smintheus: Surgical face masks are very hard to find, and need to go to medical personnel. The important question is whether simpler measures like homemade masks or bandanas work. I’ve seen several articles that say they don’t, and can even worsen the problem.
Fair Economist
@Litlebritdifrnt: That sounds pretty awful, but I think it’s just part of a massive laundering scheme. The US government is buying PPE abroad, flying it to the states, giving it to private distributors – who are selling it back abroad. End result is a massive transfer of money from US taxpayers to private businesses, and no PPE getting to American healthcare workers.
Kent
Makes me think of that famous scene from Apollo 13 where the engineers had to figure out how to get the spacecraft home with the box of odd parts that were in the capsule
It is probably not all that hard to make a functioning ventilator. The difficulty is passing all the reliability testing that the government does on medical devices. That is a long and expensive process. But if we are in a state of national triage then maybe a bunch of hacked together interim devices are going to be necessary on a temporary basis. There would have to be lots of blanket waivers of liability and hospitals would need to be relieved of malpractice vulnerability if they are going to let these sorts of things into their wards though.
RSA
@NYCMT: I’m sorry to hear your story; thanks for sharing it. I had a similar scare a couple of weeks ago, with a happier outcome, when my father had a mishap in his workshop and needed to go to the local ER. But he’s better and there’s nothing more to report.
I’m afraid there will be so many such stories like your wife’s grandmother, though.
zhena gogolia
Re OP, Gov. Lamont in CT has been doing a lot of the same kinds of work as Cuomo. I’m paying attention only to him and Sen. Murphy and our mayor, ignoring the federal govt. completely.
Robert Sneddon
@Mandalay: I did a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation, estimating that the world’s primary medical care people will need about half a trillion N95 disposable masks before this mess really slows down in the autumn. That’s about two hundred thousand tractor-trailer loads of masks if my calculations and estimates are correct (each mask weighs about 10 grammes, not including pallets, packaging etc.) . A single trailer-load of PPE and medical equipment shipped around the world as a message of intent when this clusterfuck kicked off is a fart in the hurricane.
Fair Economist
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Sounds like a pretty clear plan to not process the application. Do you know why the banks would be so reluctant?
Suzanne
@trollhattan: The problem with needing AII (airborne infection isolation) space is that each space has to be negatively pressured to the space it’s next to. These open spaces filled with cots that people are talking about are not going to be like that, because there’s nothing separating the spaces. So they’re going to be super-corony really soon. And no one has really talked about what happens if even one other infectious agent gets in there.
Barbara
@NYCMT: I am so sorry. I made the mistake of reading hard copy newspaper obituaries this morning, and read about the CV related deaths of three prominent people who were 80 and 90+. It’s not enough to say that they lived a good life. We are falling so short of the standard that we set for ourselves in our treatment of people like your wife’s grandmother that it makes me want to weep, daily.
Brachiator
@JoyceH:
Yep. What is good and amazing to see is how NY is adapting when a plan needs to be revised.
They are doing everything they can to try to stay a few steps ahead of the pandemic.
Bill Arnold
@Soprano2:
I had to get a permit this week for a hookup to the water main, and needed signoffs (inked signatures) from the Water Department involved. We did it via email, scan-to-pdf, and phone calls and a paper handoff in the parking lot. (I at least was masked.) They’re only allowing one person in the office at the time and working 1/2 time (on one week off the next). Talked for a bit at about 30 feet; they’re being as cautious as they can be.
L85NJGT
Watching Holcomb’s (Indiana) presser from yesterday, he seems wigged out. Also hiding behind two woman and an African American male.
Elizabelle
ProPublica:
Early Data Shows African Americans Have Contracted and Died of Coronavirus at an Alarming Rate
No, the coronavirus is not an “equalizer.” Black people are being infected and dying at higher rates. Here’s what Milwaukee is doing about it — and why governments need to start releasing data on the race of COVID-19 patients.
KSinMA
@Cheryl Rofer: Amazing interview. Thanks, Cheryl.
Mandalay
@Robert Sneddon:
Your back of the envelope numbers are irrelevant. The issue is that from a political and populist perspective, Pompeo gave away medical supplies to China that we needed here.
All the public statements at the time strongly show that the Trump Administration (incorrectly) assumed that the USA would not be affected by the coronavirus, and that’s why Pompeo put his name on the press release.
But there is overwhelming evidence that the Administration was being told left, right and center that this thing was a massive threat to the nation. Pompeo can argue that he was doing as he was told, or that he thought it was a great gesture to help China, but either way he comes out of it looking like a dangerous and clueless idiot.
joel hanes
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
That’s actually better than a ship, because it does not force the healthcare workers to continually share cramped corridors, companionways, etc.
Sorry, mm, but IMHO they’re trying to avoid a preventable tragedy by trying to keep the infected off the Comfort.
Sending the comfort was a PR gesture, demanded by the President.
joel hanes
@Kattails:
Nevertheless, it is horrifying that a federal website could be altered in such a manner.
There have been many instances of federal web sites being retro-altered or just taken down entirely to avoid embarassing the Trumpies. Many. In 2016, this was common on the sites of agencies such as the EPA, OSHA, and the FDA, that had content produced by scientists and experts.
mrmoshpotato
@narya: ABC 7 Chicago’s YouTube page has been live streaming (and archiving) Gov Pritzker’s and Mayor Lightfoot’s daily press briefings FYI.
I’ve been relying on them instead of Dump’s nightly Watch-me-jerk-off-I’m-the-greatest liefests.
ABC 7 Chicago YouTube page
L85NJGT
@joel hanes:
Send the staff and medical equipment to the Javits Center.
Bill Arnold
@Robert Sneddon:
Read the Nature paper, perhaps? (There are plenty of other papers but they’re mostly weaker scientifically.)
(IMO the British Government’s advice will kill a lot of people in the fullness of time.)
MoCA Ace
@Cheryl Rofer: I’m not on FB but I’m going to have my wife post this and message everyone she can tonight (is that how they do it?). Everyone needs to see what a fucktacular shit show this is.
When this is over anyone I hear say we need to look forward and not back is getting a bat to the crotch… if I’m feeling generous I’ll stop at several whacks!
mrmoshpotato
@A Ghost to Most:
LOL
joel hanes
@TriassicSands:
Yes, I know. And he’s not alone. Republicans gonna Republican.
But DeWine’s response to the pandemic has been light-years better than that of Stitt (OK), DeSantis (FL), Reeves (MS), Parson (MS), or of Trump himself.
L85NJGT
@mrmoshpotato:
JB has the most FU Trump vibe of all the Governors or Mayors. Probably because his sister could by the Trump Organization ten times over.
Speaking of which – are they bankrupt yet?
Bill Arnold
@Nettoyeur:
Read the science. Here’s another collection, besides today’s Nature paper I linked above, a currated list on google docs, with some relevant quotes:
Papers about effectiveness of basic masks
They’re not particularly cherry-picked; I’ve looked at most of the available science and while it’s weak, the metaanalyses look more convincing, and that Nature paper linked above looks better.
Much of the advice against wearing masks is speculation, not science, or intended to protect supplies for medical works, who are not helped by 10X (or whatever, it’s exponential) the case numbers.
joel hanes
@L85NJGT:
Yes, that would be better.
Brachiator
@Robert Sneddon:
The medical authorities have been pretty consistent with the idea of social distance and washing hands.
Masks might help in preventing a person from passing the virus to you, but social distance and hand washing is still the best advice.
But people want masks to work and provide more protection than they actually do.
If wearing masks becomes more prevalent, I hope that people do not reduce social distance or try to use masks as an excuse to go out more if the advice is still to try to respect lock downs.
ETA: I haven’t seen anything remotely reliable on how long a person should wear a mask, or the best methods of disposing on previously worn masks.
Also, right now, I wouldn’t even know where to go to get a supply of masks.
West of the Rockies
Not alone in this, but I despise Kushner’s drab face. Specifically, he has a sneering mouth, where his thin lips perpetually turn down on the edges. He’s got a slightly beaky nose, bland, greedy eyes, greasy hair in a style popular with 9 year old boys in 1965, and a pasty complexion. Looks like he could bench maybe 60 pounds. Hunka-hunka lukewarm, limp love.
MoCA Ace
@NYCMT: So sorry.
Flea, RN
@Hungry Joe: That’s the current protocol. But it involves so many hoops as to be unworkable.
This process puts more of a strain on both the EMS and hospital system – unclear whether the extra bed on the Ship makes up for that.
danielx
@Ruckus:
My best friend’s daughter is a full lieutenant Navy nurse aboard the Comfort, and he is scared shitless for her. It’s a disaster waiting to happen, and probably will.
Could be worse, she was the head nurse on the Harry S Truman for a good while.
zhena gogolia
@West of the Rockies:
This is my favorite Jared Kushner meme:
Kent
States should be tracking where these private stashes of PPE are located that are being held by Trump-connected profiteers. And just send in the State Police or National Guard to confiscate it all.
Duane
Since Trumpov is a spineless chickenshit dumbass crook, can Congress draft legislation implementing a national lockdown? If he rejects it, override the veto and force this country to do the right thing. It’s worth trying. Desperate times, desperate measures.
Kent
@Flea, RN: I expect they are doing that to prevent a non-COVID case like say, a gunshot trauma victim or car crash trauma victim from being brought on board who happened to be an asymptomatic COVID carrier who would then infect the whole ship. But it seems unworkable.
Nethead Jay
Mistermix, if you’re around: Since this is about New York and Cuomo, I’d like your opinion on this column. I have no problem with saying Jay Inslee is the gold standard and the thing about hospital capacity seems like a legit criticism. But from looking at this guys other columns and twitter feed I’m getting a strong whiff of leftier-than-thou purity ponyism, which makes me distrust stuff these days.
Kent
I think Congress is out of session right now.
Mandalay
@Robert Sneddon:
The U.S. Surgeon General is saying exactly the same thing:
Regardless of all that, I suppose masks may prevent you from touching your face with your hands, but I don’t know how significant that is in terms of increasing your protection.
Another Scott
@Cheryl Rofer: Excellent. Thanks for the pointer.
We have people and systems – still – that can minimize this disaster but Donnie and his minions are not using them.
Grrr…
Cheers,
Scott.
MoCA Ace
I enjoy woodworking and have an idea to start making social distancing sticks. A blunt end for first warning and a pointy end for second warning!
Suzanne
@Mandalay: This makes no sense. Why should they be saved for healthcare workers IF THEY DON’T PROVIDE SOME POSITIVE EFFECT?! I realize that they are not a solution in and of themselves and that people have to be trained on their use and etc etc etc, but IMO this kind of messaging undermines trust. It’s patently ridiculous.
BBA
No mention of NYC’s esteemed mayor so far this thread…and let’s keep it that way. I was usually on his side in the interminable mayor-vs-governor feuds that have dominated the last 6 years, but for this one I’m Team Cuomo all the way. (At least until he tries to bring back the IDC and give the NYS Republicans a new lease on life. On that, I haven’t forgiven or forgotten.)
Another Scott
@Bill Arnold: They told the public not to wear face masks because there weren’t enough for critical people. And there still aren’t.
Of course, if the people in charge were trusted and able to give sensible nuanced messages about what works and what doesn’t, they could say something like – “Commercial face masks are needed for healthcare workers. But the public should cover their faces when out in public as well using a bandana or handkerchief or even something made from old t-shirts. Everything helps to lessen the spread. But it’s vitally important that specialized masks be left for the professionals…”
Of course, asking Donnie to make a statement like that and have people believe it is like asking my dog Ellie not to bark at delivery trucks driving through the neighborhood…
Grr…
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
@Suzanne:
Health care workers are in prolonged close personal contact with people who are known to have the virus.
Long, prolonged close contact.
With people who are known to have the virus.
This should not be the case with people walking around outdoors for short periods of time and maintaining social distance.
People want to wear masks. They want every ounce of possible protection. But again, the most effective protection for the general population is to maintain social distance and to wash your hands.
Gravenstone
@senyordave:
That callow fuck is going to get entirely too many people killed. Occurred to me he’s starting to outpace his FiL for a spot in the tumbrel line.
Duane
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Breaking bank windows you say. Well that is where the money’s at. I’m waiting for people to start hijacking delivery trucks.
cain
@Cheryl Rofer:
twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1245932600839090176
People are getting wealthy by getting their hands on those ventilators, masks and other PPE equipment. You can bet that Jared is getting the bulk of it and he will distribute it to the states at some high value amount. It’s fucking bullshit.
But nobody can investigate because this president will fuck them over during this time.
I want to see some jail time, life sentences for these people. I want his supporters to be shamed in life and in death. They all deserve all of that and maybe worse.
Chyron HR
@zhena gogolia:
Ice-T: “You’re saying this guy likes huffing medical equipment?”
Gin & Tonic
@BBA:
Bill DeBlasio, as stupid as Brian Kemp. And to think he thought he could be President.
Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)
@NYCMT: My condolences.
Bill Arnold
@Mandalay:
The US Surgeon General said that on “7:08 AM · Feb 29, 2020”. It was at best a point in time statement (white lie) to try to protect PPE supplies for medical workers because the general population wasn’t much infected. Now, my area somewhere about 1% of the people have tested infected and there are certainly a multiple of that who are infected and haven’t been tested, some of them asymptomatic or presymptomatic. Health care workers are not well serviced by faster growth of the infected.
Anyway, the official advice re masks in the US will be changing shortly (today sometime). I suggest looking at the papers I’ve been linking.
prostratedragon
@NYCMT: My condolences. Peace to her.
Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)
@MoCA Ace: I like how you think. And something near the pointy end that’s serrated for the third strike?
MoCA Ace
I think for most people its going to be the homemade cloth masks. Wash daily to disinfect.
Around here there are lots of people making these. My wife was looking for masks for all the employees at the pharmacy she works at and asked one person known to be a quilt maker. Within a few days she had more responses than she could handle… many of the makers around here are looking for places where they can donate masks.
Duane
@Kent: If that’s the only thing stopping it, perhaps they could be bothered to come back in session in order to save our country from the mad King.
Ruckus
@Gravenstone:
Both trump and jared need to hung by their ankles, maybe then some blood will go to their heads. Won’t do any good, both of their brains have been starved of blood for so long that zombies have taken over. Of course it is impossible to tell if that has made any difference in their behavior. They were shit before the zombies took over. Still, can’t hurt to hang them that way for say 3 weeks……in the sun, from the top of a 20 story building, just in case the rope breaks.
download my app in the app store mistermix
I realize this thread is basically over but I wanted to re-affirm that Buffalo and Rochester (where I live) are experiencing nothing like downstate. Nothing.
We have cases. Our hospitals are not yet overloaded.
washingtonpost.com/national/buffalo-conronavirus-cuomo-new-york/2020/03/31/58c8b8aa-7376-11ea-85cb-8…
This story, that was linked above, is about the dysfunction of Buffalo and that it’s gonna get bad. It is bad, today, downstate.
PAM Dirac
Maybe, but that Nature paper doesn’t look anything close to slam dunk evidence that broad mask wearing would have significant effects. First, it isn’t about transmission of disease, it is about viral load from breathing. That is going to be an important parameter in transmission, but not the only one. Second, it doesn’t get into how people actually use masks, it essentially measures how a mask would work in a one shot fashion. Again that is a very useful parameter, but not at all the only parameter to consider. I also didn’t see that they measured the viral load caught by the mask. If the mask is very effective at catching viral particles and not disposed of properly, it can be the method of transmission. Quoting the paper (bolding mine)
For masks to make a big difference, “prolonged close contact” would have to be a significant route of transmission and even then it’s unclear that it wouldn’t be as effective to just avoid prolonged close contact
ETA – Also note that for rhinovirus most patients did have detectable virus in the breath, but the masks were not effective.
mad citizen
@L85NJGT: This is funny. (This is in reference to the Indiana governor/situation). What I took away from his first one announcing the state shutdown was a kind of exasperation, which also comes across like he is speaking to a group of kindergartners. I guess that’s because he knows he has to convince the RWNJs of the measures. He’s much more from the old school country club wing of the party vs. the evangelical nut jobs (e.g. Pence) I’m hearing the Indiana shut-in will be extended two weeks to April 20. My county only had 13 new cases reported today (from yesterday). Improving hopefully.
There is a certain kind of Republican-Indiana politican-speak I’ve been identifying of late. It’s really not a good speaking style. Pence practices it as well. They all could use some elocution training, instead of emulating Mitch Daniels or something.
Another Scott
@Mandalay:
At least that’s my understanding. They weren’t US Government supplies, they were supplies collected privately for donation to China. The US Government provided the transportation.
Whether that was a good idea given the needs in the US is another question. Of course, Donnie saying that there were 15 cases going to zero and “fake news” and all the rest probably made the folks collecting the stuff think that there was no way that they would be needed here, also too, and that’s a huge issue that we’re all paying the price for now…
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Suzanne
@Brachiator: I get that. But that is not the same thing as saying that “they don’t work”. They reduce certain kinds of risks a certain amount. By saying “they don’t work”, they damaged their credibility.
Sab
@MoCA Ace: We started wearing homemade masks in the park and it’s awesome. People avoided us like we were infectious. Yay. That’s the point. Also it’s helping with my seasonal allergies.
divF
@narya:
They carry Rancho Gordo at our local produce store, but I’ve never heard of a bean club. Will have to look into it.
I stockpiled 8 lbs. of giant italian white beans before we went on lockdown, one way or another I look forward to using them.
Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)
@Ruckus: Hmm, you show promise in this sort of thing. I approve.
Bill Arnold
@PAM Dirac:
Thank you (seriously) for reading it.
The point is blocking at least partially forward projection of droplets/aerosols from infected asymptomatics/presymptomatics. The science is not super strong though there is another metanalysis that is also positive.
(I’m not going shopping until mask use/face covering is required at the store.)
Fox News. They’re late with this, later than most of the media, but they’re on it now:
New York ER doctor: Smart to recommend public use masks because of asymptomatic spread of coronavirus (Joshua Nelson, April 3, 2020)
ciotog
@narya: Did you see this? talkingpointsmemo.com/news/rural-counties-consider-an-alternative-type-of-social-distancing-kicking-…
People around here complaining about Pritzker, when Rauner would have done nothing at all and then tried to ban labor unions, just because.
Ksmiami
@West of the Rockies: but think of how easy it will be to lift him up on the gallows?!!!
everyday I get more pro-revenge
A Ghost to Most
@download my app in the app store mistermix: Go with that. After all, it wasn’t in the FTFNYT.
The Fat Kate Middleton
@joel hanes: WRT to Gov. Reynolds. I live in Iowa, in the county with the largest number of victims. Her pig-headed stubbornness is going to kill many more of us.
Robert Sneddon
@PAM Dirac: A lot of Asian folks who wear masks as a regular thing, usually at the beginning of the year are doing so to avoid allergic reactions from pollen more than trying to prevent the transmission of bacterial and viral infections. Those masks were typically not N95-type medical masks but more open types made of cotton or similar. Pollen grains are a lot bigger than viruses or even most harmful bacteria.
bluefoot
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
That’s because people can’t get tested, even if medical personnel say they should. At least two members of my family had known exposure AND had symptoms, their doctors told the county dept of health they needed to get tested, and so far they have waited for over two weeks to get a test. There are none available. COVID-19 has been prevalent in Buffalo, we just don’t have proof in the form of positive tests yet.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Bill Arnold: A friend of ours is making my husband and me washable surgical type masks with a pocket for a filter. I have some Hepa filters left from when I had a regular vacuum so we are going to adapt those. I will probably start wearing one at work since i am still going in (I work IT in a lab). I wish they would encourage everyone to make their own if possible so as to not complete with health care workers. A friend and her pregnant daughter are making some for all the people in her OB/GYN practice.
Ksmiami
@Suzanne: Nah he doesn’t deserve to be left alive after this. Back to my theme: tribunals and hangings
mrmoshpotato
@Suzanne: Gotta have variety.
Punch Boywonder’s face.
Punch Boywonder’s throat.
Kick Boywonder in the crotch.
Repeat. And change it up if you get bored. Yeah know, crotch shot, crotch shot, face wallop
MoCA Ace
@Boris Rasputin (the evil twin):
Third warning is back to the blunt end… with increased vigor!
Brachiator
@Suzanne:
I think their credibility is intact. You cannot reduce the issue of masks to work/don’t work. Nor can medical experts quantify how much more protection masks might confer.
However, social distance and washing hands work.
And you don’t have to try to figure out degree of risk or degree of effectiveness.
People want masks. They want to believe that masks are the final touch with respect to safety. And health officials are bowing to this demand.
mrmoshpotato
@L85NJGT: Bankrupt? Who? Dump Organization? I thought that was shut down for fraud.
PAM Dirac
I don’t have any problem with encouraging or even requiring masks in public as long as 1) the general public doesn’t use up all the high quality masks that health care workers need (the people who can not avoid prolonged close contact). and 2) It is made very clear that masks are not at all a substitute for maintaining proper distance.
Robert Sneddon
@Bill Arnold: The WHO’s advice on the general public using masks against coronavirus is on this page.
TL:DR; yes to masks if you’re healthy and supporting someone suspected or confirmed as suffering from coronavirus otherwise don’t bother. There’s a lot of how-to info about using a mask which Joe Public isn’t going to carry out religiously, like proper disposal and hand-washing, fitting etc. Some good dowloadable posters on the subject.
Telling everyone and their dog to wear masks gives the impression they’re doing something. It will probably lead to more robberies of ambulances and ERs and (since this is the US) some shootings too.
A Ghost to Most
@bluefoot: Fugedaboutit. The Washington Post is a rag, and it hasn’t been reported In the FTFNYT.
Eta also talked to a BIL in Oakfield Friday, and the locals still weren’t taking it seriously.
Ruckus
@danielx:
The hospital ships are support ships for the military and can be used in situations that allow little separation of patients, which describes a military situation or a natural disaster like an earthquake or hurricane, but not an infectious one. Of course bone spurs wouldn’t know any of this, nor does he give a fuck, he’s covered. And he gives not even a flying fuck about anyone but him. On top of that he has the intelligence of an already rotted rutabaga.
Kattails
@joel hanes: And I thought this was a new thing… silly me! (Smacks forehead with carefully-gloved hand. )
mrmoshpotato
@ciotog: Ahh this shit again. Woo hoo!
LMAO so true! Governor Headgefund (h/t Driftglass and Bluegal) totally would’ve pulled some sneaky shit now like other Rethuglican governors are being shitheads.
Ruckus
@Boris Rasputin (the evil twin):
I have an engineer’s bend for this sort of thing, large but specific problem solving. What’s the desired end result and a good, even if not the best way, to get there. Look at the entire picture and the individual pieces as both the problem and the solution.
And if you believe any of that……….
mrmoshpotato
@Ksmiami: Gonna have to fill his pockets with rocks to help the drop.
mrmoshpotato
Oh shit! JB Pritzker (gov IL) just bitchslapped Kushner by name!
Chicago’s mayor Lori Lightfoot is going in on the Dump admin now!
So proud of both of them!
Lightfoot just bitchslapped Kushner by name too!
James E Powell
@Litlebritdifrnt:
But all the money went to the syndicate. And everybody has a share.
joel hanes
@The Fat Kate Middleton:
My mom and sister live in north-central Iowa, right up the “Avenue of the Saints” from you.
Both are very vulnerable, but my mom can isolate. My sister can’t, and Reynolds is probably going to kill her via inaction.
Bill Arnold
@Robert Sneddon:
Coronavirus: WHO to review guidelines around face masks amid new evidence – Current guidance covers those with or looking after someone with Covid-19 symptoms (Zoe Tidman, 2020/04/02)
I have not found how the WHO recommendations were formed.
The study referenced is probably this:
Impact assessment of non-pharmaceutical interventions against COVID-19 and influenza in Hong Kong: an observational study (March 16, 2020)
(It is possible that the WHO guidelines are wrong and not properly science-based.)
Here’s a review of the guidelines in various countries. They vary quite a bit:
Rational use of face masks in the COVID-19 pandemic (March 20, 2020)
Nancy
Another good idea in New York state:
The Office of Mental Health contacted me because I am a licensed mental health therapist, asking whether I’d be willing to volunteer on a telemental health crisis hotline. (I would) Makes a lot of sense to get people lined up in anticipation of the need. Who could have imagined?
EthylEster
@EmbraceYourInnerCrone: I’m trying to imagine how you will force the air to go through the HEPA filter instead of taking the easier path around it.
Barry
@japa21:
“A couple days ago she received an official offer from NY to go there for six weeks, be given quarantine housing and be paid $6,000 per week.
She has not decided.”
Make sure that her contract specifies PPE.
Barry
@Robert Sneddon: “They’d have to do a swab test of active coronavirus infection on everyone they admit and that takes time, equipment, materials, technicians etc. ”
And given the quality of testing, and likely time between infection and a positive test, it woudln’t last long.