Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

People are complicated. Love is not.

After roe, women are no longer free.

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. don’t touch it.”

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Consistently wrong since 2002

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

An unpunished coup is a training exercise.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

In after Baud. Damn.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

You are here: Home / Healthcare / COVID-19 Coronavirus / Coronavirus Open Thread: To Mask, Or Not?

Coronavirus Open Thread: To Mask, Or Not?

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The Oval Office Squatter might not wear one (given the snorting noises, he has enough trouble breathing through his nose that he’s afraid of further obstruction), but it’s beginning to look like the rest of us will be. If only because of social pressure — going out in public ‘undressed’ will start to draw negative attention, and that’s more effective than public health advisories in changing peoples’ behavior.

From Joseph G. Allen, assistant professor of exposure and assessment science, at the Washington Post, “You need to wear a mask. Here’s how”:

… Now let’s talk about the right way to use masks:

  • Each person in your home should have a mask — absolutely no sharing.
  • The mask should cover the bridge of your nose and cup your chin.
  • There should be two straps, one that goes above your ear, and the other below
  • How to put it on and take it off — what we call donning and doffing in my field (yes, those are the terms we use) — is also important. To put it on, use one hand to hold the outside of your homemade mask and put the top strap over your head, followed by the strap that goes below your ear. To take it off, don’t touch your mask, which could have infectious particles on it if you came into contact with someone infectious. Instead, take it off using the two straps.
  • If you make one mask, wash it daily.
  • If you make multiple masks, place the recently worn one in a bag and set it aside for five days (there shouldn’t be any virus left after that time). Wear a new one each day.
  • Wash your hands when you’re done


    • … In Asia, masks aren’t just shields. They’re also symbols. They’re an affirmation of civic-mindedness and conscientiousness, and such symbols might be important in other parts of the world too. If widely used, masks could signal that society is taking the pandemic threat seriously. They might reduce the stigma foisted on sick people, who would no longer feel ashamed or singled out for wearing one. They could offer reassurance to people who don’t have the privilege of isolating themselves at home, and must continue to work in public spaces. “My staff have also mentioned that having a mask reminds them not to touch their face or put a pen in their mouth,” Bourouiba noted.

    Or masks could have the opposite effect. Whenever Santarpia sees someone wearing a mask in public, that person is constantly touching it, futzing with it, and pulling it down to wipe their mouth. “Masks are really uncomfortable, and no one wears them correctly,” he said. “Rather than being protective, you’ve put something on your face that makes you want to touch your face more, or to touch the outside of the mask, which is infectious. You’ve created a hazard for yourself that’s right on your face.”…

    Long thread:

    Reader Interactions

    142Comments

    1. 1.

      A Ghost to Most

      Thanks for the tips. I did some experimenting with my three ply t shirt model. I found the finest nylon mesh I had (1284 tpi!), and it is the innermost layer. It allows moisture to stay in the cotton, not on my face.

      Eta the bottom hem of a t shirt makes pretty good straps.

    3. 3.

      Patricia Kayden

      Hubby ordered masks but they haven’t arrived as yet. I guess I can start using my large hair scarves in the meantime.

    6. 6.

      Brachiator

      I like the paper towel improvisation.

      People wanted masks

      Now they have an excuse to wear masks

      Social distance and hand washing is still essential

    7. 7.

      mali muso

      I think I have some scarves and bandanas that I can make work, plus lots of hair elastics.  The only time I’ve ventured out in the past few weeks has been a run to Costco to stock up on staples.  Now getting my other groceries delivered from Aldi.  Hoping to keep the masking to a minimum as long as we’re just hanging out at home.

    8. 8.

      Gin & Tonic

      I’m a long-time active practitioner of two sports/pastimes – snow skiing and road bicycling – in which the prevailing style went fairly quickly from no-helmet to helmet. No legal requirements anywhere, but if you show up on a group ride or at the lift without a helmet on, you are really, really odd. I’m wondering if I’ll see the same phenomenon with masks.

    9. 9.

      RSA

      Wouldn’t it be nice if we had an authoritative source for this kind of information, instead of having to rely on random people on Twitter?

      Nemesis points out that vacuum cleaner bags are good for filtering out small particles. But that’s just one criterion. Davies et al., in “Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks: Would They Protect in an Influenza Pandemic?” Disaster Medicine and Public Health Preparedness, 2003, write,

      The surgical mask had the highest filtration efficiency when challenged with bacteriophage MS2, followed by the vacuum cleaner bag, but the bag’s stiffness and thickness created a high pressure drop across the material, rendering it unsuitable for a face mask. Similarly, the tea towel, which is a strong fabric with a thick weave, showed relatively high filtration efficiency with both B atrophaeus and bacteriophage MS2, but a high pressure drop was also measured.

      In lay terms, with a high pressure drop, you’re going to have difficulty breathing through a well-sealed mask, or you’ll be breathing around it, obviating its filtering capabilities. We have a Twitter recommendation for a material that is empirically found to be “unsuitable.”

      I’m no expert. I am angry at this administration and Republicans in general, for making it so difficult to find reliable information during a crisis.

    10. 10.

      Miss Bianca

      Walked into Ace Hardware in my tiny town this morning, masks are very much in the minority. Not quite convinced of their efficacy except as security theater, personally, so reluctant to start. Will if I have to, I guess, but I’m finding myself oddly resistant to the notion.

    11. 11.

      Elizabelle

      It was so weird yesterday deciding which bandana to use for a trip to the bank lobby.  Suited up like a bank robber.

      However, the lobby was closed and so drive-through it was.  Maskless.  There was a county policeman assigned to the bank’s parking lot.  He was maskless.  Beautiful sunny 70s afternoon.

      It seemed most of the shoppers at Lidl yesterday were masked.  Not the store staff, though.

    12. 12.

      RSA

      Also, I’m trying to figure out whether we’re living in a libertarian paradise, with oppressive government regulations out of the way and states competing for medical supplies on the open market. On the other hand, it could be a socialist hellhole, with the forced shut-down of private businesses and the give-aways to people unable to work. Hmm, maybe libertarianism doesn’t provide the right framing concepts…

    13. 13.

      Martin

      Data time:

      Italy: +681. A little bit down, but not enough to establish a trend. This is day 16 in the range. But Italy is reporting a drop in ICU cases, so their fatalities should be dropping around now. I mean, everything is going in the right direction in Italy. It’s just a matter of timing and degree. Spain is reporting lower fatalities, but I’m not sure it’s a meaningful number. I’ll be adding a Spain model. If it is meaningful, it’ll mean they could turn fatalities lower in a way that neither Italy or China could. Understanding why could be useful.

      US: +1320. I swear to God, if you are looking for a dataset to perfectly illustrate exponential behavior in a social context, you couldn’t find anything clearer than US fatalities. We are just bang-on. Slope of the log of the data fits R2=0.995. This is where I question the IHME model showing a peak +2600 fatalities on 4/16. We’re on track to hit that by Tues or Wed unless NY stalls out completely, and I don’t see why that would happen this early. So, I don’t think iHME has a bad model overall, but I think they are more determined to fit to a gaussian function than they are to connecting that function to known triggers. Anyway, as delightful as this data trend is to a statistician, this is someone dying every minute, and that’s horrific.

      NY: +630. So NY is nearly half the nation’s daily fatalities. Their trend continues to settle slightly. Their 7 day trend continues to diverge from their overall trend, but it’s slow and it started from a very high initial trend, but where the model was predicting simply impossible numbers, now it’s predicting bad but at least plausible ones. They should still see +thousands numbers. Send help to NY. And NJ is right on their tail.

      CA: +24. Again, easing like NY is. A small, slow divergence from trend. The upshot here is that as we race toward our lockdown payoff, the easing looks like it will keep CA below +100/day. I think I can say that Santa Clara has completely stalled out on fatalities. Same for other bay area counties. They shouldn’t have any appreciable growth in daily fatalities from here out. It may be weeks before they drop, but this should also indicate that their hospital pressure will soon ease and fall off. Curve flattened! LA is seeing similar easing to the state, but again, mild. LA may get to +40 or so, but they should be able to carry that with surge capacity. ICU cases are still climbing in my county but hospitalizations are not. They’re discharging non-ICU cases as fast as new non-ICU cases are coming in, but ICU cases keep piling up because they spend so long there. So to the extent that they can convert ICU beds and have a few thousand respirators, they should be fine – and surrounding counties should be able to pitch in. Good work CA.

      FL: +25, FWIW. Their data is all over the place. But their model (uniquely) keeps trending upward. In fact, their 7 day trendline is now steeper than NYs 7 day. Maybe it’s hitting the retirement communities and wasn’t there before? Anyway, if fatalities don’t turn until 21 days after lockdown, they’re looking at something in the +3000 range. Hopefully FL took voluntary measures before the state action and can avoid that.

    15. 15.

      Elizabelle

      I wish we could get Trump to wear a mask.  Am sick of seeing his face.  Enough.

    17. 17.

      Another Scott

      I made a mask from an old medium-size white t-shirt similar to the 2-minute YouTube of a no-sew dusk mask that’s been going around.  I folded over the bottom to give 4 layers of fabric maybe 5″ wide, cut it, cut out 1″ long straps, etc.  It was easy to tie on without knots.  I then went on a ~ 1 hour walk with our doggie Ellie around noon.  It worked OK.  The part over my nose did try to slowly slide down over time, and there were times when my exhalation made my glasses fog up, and the extra humidity made my nose more runny than usual, but it was workable.

      I’m thinking of sewing the edges of the 4 layers together, and using shoestrings instead of rubber bands or the t-shirt material for ties, to make it a little more stable on my face.

      I also ordered some bandanas from Etsy and from Nordstrom yesterday – Amazon seems to be sold out (as one might expect).  If I come up with a more optimized design for my face, I’ll eventually have more stylish fabric to use.

      Cheers,
      Scott.

    19. 19.

      Jinchi

      Remembering that the numbers of infected appear to be doubling every 2-3 days in many places, if one of your neighbors was infected 2 weeks ago, dozens of them would be infected today. The peak looks to be another 2 weeks off at best, at which point hundreds could be. The risk of exposure is getting much higher.

    20. 20.

      Kelly

      As I have mentioned before I use my neck gaiter (a kind of ski mask not a big growth on my neck) over the top of a bandit style bandanna mask. The neck gaiter is very stretchy which seals the edges a bit. Tucks into my collar, reaches above my nose and around my head like a big turtleneck. Entirely covers my beard. The bandanna is doubled over so I have 3 layers.

      Recommend whatever you wear give it a good long try at home so you don’t find you need to fiddle with it out in the world.

    21. 21.

      HumboldtBlue

      I have two sisters (including the one who was in Morocco when the pandemic took fire and who just managed to make it home with her husband) who have been sewing masks for a month. Hospitals can’t use them but everyone else can. Getting enough elastic has been a minor issue.

    22. 22.

      CaseyL

      I still have some craft respirators, which I can use/wash out/re-use.  I’m hardly leaving the house at all (other than to get mail and take out trash) so a couple of masks should last me a while.

      Dish towels?  Dish towels!  I have more of those than God.  My Mom sent me a whole stack of them ages ago and they’ve been stuffed into the back of a cabinet ever since.

      What I lack are rubber bands and surplus hair-ties.

    23. 23.

      Oklahomo

      My stepfather is a cancer survivor with one lung.  The family doc gave us all masks and told us to keep him home and for us to go masked and gloved two weeks ago.

    24. 24.

      lamh36

      Sigh.

      I sincerely hope people do not think wearing a mask means they are free and clear to no longer have to follow stay at home orders.

      Yes a mask offers some protection, but you know what offers more, staying home social distancing.  That is how we will control and flatten the curve of this pandemic.

       

      My biggest fear is that too many people will take wearing a mask as some type of fail safe against this virus.

      So sure wear a mask, but please only leave the house do for ESSENTIAL reasons only?

       

      Also too please learn proper care and disposal of whatever mask you plan to use for extended use

    25. 25.

      Bill Arnold

      I’m not going into a store of any sort until mask wearing breaks 50% in my area or it’s mandatory at the store (“private property” – they get to make the rules). It has not yet – too many Trump supporters and skeptics. Confirmed infection rate in my county is 1% and real probably 5 times that, some without symptoms (pre or asymptomatic), so maybe 1 in 20 to 1 in 50 2-way interactions are with an infected person; I would very much prefer that they (infected persons) were masked. Plus I do not have 100 percent confidence that I’m not personally infected, so blocking my particle spray from breathing/talking(/coughing/sneezing) is a public good, statistically. (I am not coughing or sneezing.[3])
      And look carefully at anyone who is saying that the science is not there for mask wearing. (I mean ask why the skepticism.) There are a lot of papers[2], none show a detrimental effect, and many show a significant effect. At least one metanalysis[0], and also a nature paper yesterday.[1]
      [1] Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks (Nature Medicine, 03 April 2020)
      Surgical face masks significantly reduced detection of influenza virus RNA in respiratory droplets and coronavirus RNA in aerosols, with a trend toward reduced detection of coronavirus RNA in respiratory droplets. Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals.
      (pdf)
      [0] Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses (06 July 2011)
      These data suggest that wearing a surgical mask or a N95 mask is the measure with the most consistent and comprehensive supportive evidence. Seven out of eight studies included masks as a measure in their study and six out of seven of these studies found masks to be statistically significant in multivariable analysis.
      [2] Papers about effectiveness of basic masks
      [3] Curiously, I have not coughed much at all (am cough-prone) since upping vitamin D to 4000IU per day (I’m large, 2000IU probably enough for smaller people.) Also vitamin E (200mg per day, but not more and 10-40 mg zinc per day also have reasonably supportive science re respiratory infections. These from a piece in this week’s New Scientist; I can’t drop more links in this comment.No evidence yet that it applies to COVID-19, but evidence exists for other viruses.

    26. 26.

      Martin

      @raven: Ms Martin has as well. She decided to take the weekend off after making 200 masks and will resume Monday with some Model 1 v3 masks (replaceable filters for front line workers), Model 2 v1 masks (fitted/washable for regular folks) and prototyping Model 3 v1. Model 3 will dispense with the elastic and go with a flexible fabric and velcro. She’s sourced some more non-woven poly, so she’s good for another few hundred. She’s trying to get enough different styles that she can make what she has the resources for.

      It has now turned into who can dig up the wildest fabric for a mask. I think she’s sourced some twink construction worker fabric.

    27. 27.

      Amir Khalid

      The paper towel and rubber bands mask sounds like a good idea, but I might consider using a double thickness of paper towel for sturdiness and better filtration efficiency.

    29. 29.

      The Dangerman

      @Miss Bianca:

      Will if I have to, I guess, but I’m finding myself oddly resistant to the notion.

      Will if I have to, I guess; I followed their suggestions and let the masks go to the frontliners…

      …so if they want me to wear a mask, when they are on the shelves, I’ll buy, I guess.

    30. 30.

      jl

      Huh, can’t reply to great comment by Martin. Wonder what is up?

      Anyway, thanks for information.

    31. 31.

      raven

      @Amir Khalid: OT, have you seen “The English Game” by the guy who did Dowton Abbey? It’s a six part series on Netflix about Fergus Suter and Jimmy Love and  Arthur Kinnaird. The football parts aren’t very good but it’s fairly interesting.

    32. 32.

      Scout211

      I made the fitted style of mask for the two of us 2 weeks ago.  For the last two days, I have been making the pleated style for my daughter and her family of 5.  I liked that design so I made two of the pleated kind for us, too.  I will be making another one for our neighbor who is in his 70s and lives alone.

    33. 33.

      debbie

      @lamh36:

      Every report I’ve watched or heard has emphasized a mask won’t protect  you from others, but will protect others should you be asymptomatic.

      I tossed my bandanas years ago, so have ordered a mask from etsy which should be here by next weekend, unless their shipping has become crappier than Amazon’s now seems to be.

    34. 34.

      Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

      Out of curiosity: Does anybody know if those rectangular furnace filters or those central AC filters could be turned into masks or be effective at filtering viral particles/aerosols?

      I have some blue cup surgical masks and 10 N95 respirators. I figure they can be reused multiple times for trips out to the grocery store and left alone between uses for several days to let any viral particles die

    35. 35.

      Martin

      @raven: She likes having her hobby be extra useful. I like finding a use for the fabric I’ve moved to 4 houses over 25 years because it might be useful some day. The day has finally come.

    37. 37.

      Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

      @debbie:

      Somewhat true, as even with an N95 or better respirator, the masks won’t offer 100% protection because of lack of proper fit testing, BUT it will still better than nothing for sure; and surgical and cloth masks will offer some protection as well. Along with these masks, people definitely should use social distancing when in public and stay home as much as possible

    38. 38.

      Bill Arnold

      I saw an unmasked family of 10 enter a grocery store today. I was simply scouting (car window closed, vent on recirculate, car has cabin air filter) to see level of mask compliance which seems to be stuck at about 20% today in my town.

    41. 41.

      Bill Arnold

      From thread below, coughing, sneezing, talking resulting in microdroplets floating in air, very interesting video.
      Micro droplets suspending in air
      Doesn’t directly address mask usage but obviously masks would block much of the projection of droplets during talking (and breathing) at least, and probably during coughing, sneezing too. Also an interesting bit about clearing the air with proper ventilation.

    43. 43.

      raven

      @rikyrah: No, the mail-delivery lady said her hubby was recovering from a heart attack but still working at a plumbing supply place so we gave her one. She’s making some to give to the hospital to go over the n95’s and then a bunch for friends and family. Almost everyone that learns she’s making them asks.

    45. 45.

      raven

      Elected leaders in two coastal Georgia communities on Saturday blasted Gov. Brian Kemp’s statewide shelter-in-place order, which allows beaches to reopen with social distancing, saying the mandate undermines local efforts to contain the coronavirus.

      As the state’s death toll from coronavirus increased to 208, Tybee Island Mayor Shirley Sessions and two Glynn County commissioners said Kemp’s order increases the chances groups will congregate there and raise the risk of infections. Sessions went as far as to threaten legal action.

      Local officials previously closed beaches on Tybee and St. Simons islands, while the state-owned Jekyll Island also closed its beaches. Kemp’s order, which took effect Friday, nullified local ordinances that did not match the statewide shelter-in-place order, doing away with many local actions such as beach closures.

    46. 46.

      Martin

      @raven: That’s legit amazing.

      We got elastic/non-woven poly from a local linen manufacturer. Their sales are down right now, so they have inventory of materials and they’re doing some mask production but they can’t use up all of their inventory on that, so they were happy to sell to us making masks.

    47. 47.

      Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

      @Martin:

      Has she thought about using virus-rated furnace/central AC filters as mask material? Apparently people have been making DIY masks out of them

    48. 48.

      raven

      “As the Pentagon ordered 100,000 body bags to store the corpses of Americans killed by the Coronavirus, Governor Brian Kemp dictated that Georgia beaches must reopen, and declared any decision makers who refused to follow these orders would face prison and/or fines.

      While the beaches have to reopen under the Governor’s order, Tybee will not have beach access and parking lots will remain closed until further notice. It should also be noted that Tybee currently is not properly staffed with Emergency Medical Services and there are no life guards in place. At no time has the state designated a single point of contact to orchestrate the implementation of the Governor’s plan.

      Additionally in spite of the serious health situation facing our community and the world, Governor Kemp has rescinded all restrictions put in place by local municipalities since March 1st.

      Tybee City Council and I are devastated by the sudden directives and do not support his decisions. The health of our residents, staff and visitors are being put at risk and we will pursue legal avenues to overturn his reckless mandate.”

      Around 2 p.m. Saturday, Kemp tweeted a message saying beachgoers are mostly locals who are complying with social distancing orders. He also said no issues had been reported by DNR or the Georgia Department of Public Safety.

    51. 51.

      Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

      @raven:

      Around 2 p.m. Saturday, Kemp tweeted a message saying beachgoers are mostly locals who are complying with social distancing orders. He also said no issues had been reported by DNR or the Georgia Department of Public Safety.

      Oh yeah, I totally trust the word of the guy that oversaw his own election and won by razor-thin margins /s

      If I was a mayor in Georgia, I’d tell Kemp to go fuck himself sideways and dare him to arrest/fine me.

      I have an old HS friend in the army who lives in Augusta, Georgia with his wife. He had asthma during childhood. He’s very fit and healthy because he did crossfit training to try to get into Westpoint, but ended up going the ROTC route. I’m worried about him and I’m furious with Kemp

    53. 53.

      Barbara

      I made a mask this morning. It is too big so I am going to insert darts and modify. I am going out so little that I feel like it isn’t necessary. My husband has three or four N95s that he bought for dust generating projects, which I can also use. I am still so angry.

    54. 54.

      Another Scott

      @chris: I haven’t noticed any posting issues.  Let WaterGirl know in the “Site Feedback” link (in the Contact Us section on the menu line at the top of the screen), just in case.

      Good luck.

      Cheers,
      Scott.

    56. 56.

      Timurid

      I’m still struggling with the calculus on groceries. I could go another 3 weeks or so without a grocery trip, but is that a good idea. We currently have ~250 confirmed cases in a city of about 150,000. In 3 weeks it will be more, so every person I see while shopping will have a higher chance of being infected. But traffic may be lower, and people (both the store staff and the customers) may be more serious about safety by then.

    59. 59.

      CaseyL

      @chris: I am gobsmacked by the ingenuity.  How do people come up with this stuff?  She must have been dismembering some material for something else, pulled on it, watched it become “string” all by itself, and a lightbulb went off.  Thank you!

      (My comments have been getting “520’d” all evening; I first noticed it when trying to link to photos in the Artists Among Us thread.)

    60. 60.

      dnfree

      The senior community (people 55 and over) I live in has several volunteers sewing masks. Orders are taken by email, payment left on the front door and masks delivered, and the proceeds are being donated to a local food pantry. Can’t think of a better plan than that!  Limit is two masks per household and orders are still coming in. Because it benefits a food pantry, some people donate more than the designated cost.

    62. 62.

      Barbara

      @raven: Those guys are coming into contact with a lot of people, as are grocery store workers, so that all makes sense to me. The skiing gaiter is a great idea I have several and they cover more area comfortably.

    63. 63.

      Eunicecycle

      I made the folding type masks out of my dad’s old handkerchiefs. When he passed away I kept them for some reason. He always had a clean white handkerchief. I didn’t know what I would ever do with them, so I’m glad I can make them something useful.

    66. 66.

      mrmoshpotato

      @Martin: Too warm for my fleece balaclavas – black with jolly Rogers, Curious George and one with bears (to ward off Stephen Colbert).

    68. 68.

      Bill Arnold

      @Barbara:

      Those guys are coming into contact with a lot of people, …

      I had some furniture moved this week (need to empty out a house for a (so far)pending closing, yay!) and when I called the young man with a pickup truck (he needed the work, reduced hours) he was very happy when I informed him I would be wearing a mask. Turned out he lives at home with older parents ((both over 60) and they’ve had him on on limited contact rules and he doesn’t want to kill him. I expect that delivery people would be happy to see everyone they contact wearing masks.
      We kept distant but he did not wear a mask (sigh) but that was mainly because he didn’t have one.

    69. 69.

      Martin

      @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): We have a decent amount of non-woven poly – the material the N95s are made out of. They’re either incorporated into the central layer of the mask, or for the ones with a removable filter, you just cut a rectangle of it and put it in the pocket.

    72. 72.

      ziggy

      Is it gauche to wear an N95 mask? I have a few, I looked into donating them, but they want unopened boxes only. I’ve tried scarves, they are very hot and the masks are much more comfortable. I also have a couple of dirty, torn dust masks. Thinking about making a stylish cover for the N95s.

    73. 73.

      Amir Khalid

      I’m getting intermittent 520 errors. I think Yutsano did too. Can any front-pager take a quick look under the hood?

    75. 75.

      Another Scott

      @ziggy: I found a few ~ 10 year old (unused) N95 masks in my basement.  I bought them for sanding drywall when we refurbished our family room.

      I don’t plan on using them going out – I’m saving them if one of us gets sick and has to care for the other while we self-quarantine…

      :-(

      If you feel you need to wear them outside, just tell the truth if someone asks.  If someone is going to be a jerk about it, it’s on them.  Wearing them outside is overkill, IMHO, but do what you need to do to be comfortable in your own skin.

      HTH a little.

      Cheers,
      Scott.

    76. 76.

      ziggy

      @Elizabelle: I wish we could get Trump to wear a mask. Am sick of seeing his face. Enough.

      Yes! but I think he’s too vain. One with a pig snout would look perfect.

       

       

    77. 77.

      Cheryl from Maryland

      For my home sewn cloth masks, I used ribbon and or seam binding as I didn’t have any elastic.  Cut 4 lengths of about 18” long for each corner.  The ribbon/seam binding is polyester so it can be tied for a good fit and is washable.

    80. 80.

      Martin

      Florida continuing to take things seriously.

      A gender reveal party in Florida went wrong and sparked a 10-acre fire, CNN affiliate WESH reported.

      Firefighters were called to a home in Brevard County, Florida, last weekend after reports that a blaze was possibly ignited by fireworks, fire officials said.
      But when they arrived, firefighters realized some explosives had been in the mix.
      “We were informed that it was caused by a gender reveal using Tannerite and a weapon,” Brevard County Fire Rescue Chief Mark Schollmeyer told WESH. Tannerite is a highly explosive substance often used as a rifle target

      I’m sure public officials have nothing better to do during a pandemic than dealing with your explosives and firearms laden gender reveal party.

    81. 81.

      Mallard Filmore

      I am dumping my opinion here before reading the comments and hoping this thread is not stale before finishing.

      Here is my totally unscientific view of personal and non-professional facemasks:

      When my son was 6 years old, I took him to an outdoor birthday party at a local park. During a pause in the kids activities, I was sitting in the shade watching two other adults talk to each other. I was sitting in exactly the right place, with exactly the right angle of sunshine, to watch spit dropplets pop out and spray from each speaker.

      They were not particularly “wet” speakers, not shouting, simply talking in a normal voice. Yet those sparkling little dropletts constantly jumped from the lips of each speaker.

      We are not in a chemical or biological war. A mask that is completely disease proof is not the point. Hell, even covering your mouth with an old T-shirt will stop (mostly) your spray. The point is to stop YOUR droplets to yourself, and provide some, maybe weak, barrier to the bombardment from others.

      I vote for a mask when going out.

    83. 83.

      chris

      @Timurid: I’ve been going to the store once a week and quietly loading up. The plan is to have enough nonperishable food to get by for several months if things go really pearshaped. If they don’t, well, I like lentils and sardines and canned milk in my coffee.

      Just a thought.

    84. 84.

      charluckles

      Wearing a mask just seems like the polite thing to do anytime you walk into a retail store or restaurant.  I’ve been going to the same grocery store for a decade and yesterday the manager and his longtime employees all looked like they had been through hell.  If for nothing else I want them to know that I am taking their health and safety seriously and that I appreciate them.

    86. 86.

      Mike in NC

      Fat Bastard won’t wear a mask (even though his ugly bloated head should be wrapped with several layers of duct tape) for the same reason he won’t wear reading glasses, a hearing aid, and has lifts in his shoes. Vainest prick that ever lived.

    88. 88.

      A Ghost to Most

      @Amir Khalid: True, but it is an old, beloved t shirt from Grand Tetons NP. I’m trying to see how much I can salvage. Sort of an engineering exercise.

    99. 99.

      Jackie

      Watergirl, tried to report a 520 error. I got a 520 error when I hit submit??‍♀️

    101. 101.

      Sebastian

      I would HIGHLY recommend to add two sheets of blue contractor paper towels in there. It improves filtration to almost N95 levels. Make sure to have a really good fit along the edges though or it doesn’t matter how good the filtration is.

    105. 105.

      Kattails

      @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): A comment I saw was “My mask helps protect you and your mask helps protect me.” Social distancing still being the caveat.

      Someone else likened it to the image of a door. One big football player is still small enough to get through no problem.  Three football players trying to cram through at once is another story. So I guess, after a lot of reading here and other places, is the fewer bits that get onto you, the better, the easier to wash off or have your system fend off. The fewer aerosols anyone puts out, the better. Ventilation is good.

    106. 106.

      Lyrebird

      @CaseyL: I’ve tried to read it carefully, and I think they mean flat-woven cotton tea towels.  They list linen separately, so not linen ones, and if they just meant terrycloth towels, why would they say tea towels and not just terry toweling?

       

      @Sebastian: Very true.  I like the part though where they bring in such formal language to point out that the vacuum filters are darn awkward:

      the mask effectiveness is offset by difficulty to breathe through the filter

    107. 107.

      Bill Arnold

      @MomSense:

      I used bra cups to make masks – work really well and they come with elastic.

      OK, compelled to link this patent now:
      Garment device convertible to one or more facemasks (2007)
      And the first independent claim:

      1. A bra garment comprising: a plurality of detachable cup sections, each of the cup sections having: (a) a filter device; (b) a first portion positionable adjacent to a first central area of a user’s chest; (c) a second portion positionable adjacent to a second outer area of the user’s chest adjacent to an underarm; and (d) a valve device; at least one securing device detachably coupling the first portions of the cup sections to one another; and at least one other securing device attached to the second portion of at least one of the cup sections, said other securing device operable to: (a) detachably couple the second portions of the cup sections to one another; and (b) for each one of the cup sections, attach the second portion of said cup section to the first portion of said cup section after said cup section is detached from the other cup section.

      The owner re-upped it somehow (something expired) early March 2020. (Your improv is not infringing by my reading.)

    108. 108.

      Dog Dawg Damn

      @ziggy:

      we are use tea cloths  over N100’s for a few reasons.

      1) tea cloth was shown to be 66% as effective as N95

      2) they hide the sophisticated looking N100 and look homemade

      3) they can be washed after each use, saving the mask underneath

       

      We only have 1 mask each.  Extending its life is important, and no, I don’t blame people for acquiring masks. The Govt has been derelict and would like to blame consumers…we bought ours from Sherwin Williams in January.  Nothing stopped Trump from buying those masks then, so I refuse to blame those of us with some foresight, so long as no one boards or profiteers.

    110. 110.

      CaseyL

      @Lyrebird: Well, darn.   I have oodles of dish towels, only a few tea towels.  Still, they should go a long way.  I have to go get catfood at some point, which means leaving the house.

      the mask effectiveness is offset by difficulty to breathe through the filter

      That seems like a more-than-minor problem with the mask!

    112. 112.

      Sebastian

      @Lyrebird:

      You cut the bag into sheets and then build the mask. Lol I am not sure if the comments were snarky, I don’t think anyone believes you strap a vacuum bag to your face?

      It’s about the material. Dissemble the bag, cut it into sheets and proceed with the remaining steps to build the mask.

       

      edit: apologies, I thought you were responding to my comment. I feel silly now.

    114. 114.

      Major Major Major Major

      At the bare minimum, masks significantly decrease the amount of virus an infected person is spewing. Many such people are asymptomatic. Universal masks are a perfectly sensible public-health protocol; we don’t even have to debate how effective they are at preventing inhalation.

      Proud to have been a mask crank from day one.

    118. 118.

      Jim, Foolish Literalist

      meanwhile…

      A small group of Bernie Sanders’s top aides and allies — including his campaign manager and his longtime strategist — have encouraged the independent senator from Vermont to consider withdrawing from the presidential race, according to two people with knowledge of the situation.
      The group includes campaign manager Faiz Shakir and Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), a top Sanders surrogate and ally, according to the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe sensitive private discussions….
      Beyond Shakir and Jayapal, longtime strategist Jeff Weaver has privately made a case that exiting the race more quickly and on good terms with Biden would give Sanders more leverage in the long run, according to one of the people

       

    120. 120.

      Odie Hugh Manatee

      In our small conservative hellhole (beautiful area though!) people are still taking their spouses and even kids shopping while ignoring keeping a safe distance. My wife and our daughter work at the local big box store (aka the social center of our community) and I think the store manager is taking the Trump approach to handling this, such as having employees attempt to restock shelves while customers are taking the products out of their hands. Another is not encouraging employees to wear a mask. He laughed at our daughter deciding to wear a P-95 mask to protect herself since she has lots of exposure to morons while acting as Defender and Distributor of the Toilet Paper of the Apocalypse. She bought the mask during the fires of 2017 and had a set of new cartridges for it so she put it to work. I’m sending my wife to work on Monday with one of my P-95 masks (I use them for fiberglass work, sanding, painting and the like) because he doesn’t seem to be taking this seriously. He does nothing to stop parents from letting their kids run around the store, which is fucking stupid. But at least he sends an employee around the store once an hour to remind people to keep their distance!

      One other interesting thing is that shoplifting is through the roof because I guess that’s what people do when they think the end is near. One interesting theft is someone stealing rib eye steaks and discarding the packages throughout the store over several days. That’s now going on with a variety of products because I guess it cuts down on packaging? A local police officer’s wife was recently busted for stealing about 4K in stuff, which really blows my mind. As an aside, she asked if they could call the sheriffs department instead of the city cops to keep her husband from finding out right away. Regarding toilet paper hoarding, our daughter says that she sees the same people nearly every day, some bringing other family members to each grab their limit of one package per day. Some of them know that she recognizes them and make excuses like they are picking some up for a neighbor or a friend.

      MAGA hat wearing old fucks keep coming up to them and telling them that this is all bullshit and my wife and our daughter wish they would STFU and keep their distance but that ain’t happening because they are pants-shitting whiny old fucks.

    121. 121.

      Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

      @Major Major Major Major:

      Proud to have been a mask crank from day one.

      You and me both. I think it really is about cultural norms for why Americans and westerners in general don’t like mask wearing. Asian countries in the last 20 years have had to deal with disease outbreaks, along with pollution, so that’s why public mask wearing is not only considered accepted but socially responsible

    122. 122.

      James E Powell

      @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

      They lied to us. I always thought the “masks don’t work” thing was bullshit

      Was it lying or stupidity or some other mental disease? Trump has infected the whole of the federal government with the fear of pissing off the Great Leader.

      I always thought there was something wrong with “masks don’t work” because why not wear masks? We all buy tiny bottles of stuff and take our shoes off to get on a plane? I have to be searched before I can enter a minor league baseball park in Lake Elsinore California. Why would they not go for the pandemic theater?

    124. 124.

      Anne Laurie

      @A Ghost to Most: Home Depot is open, Ace is closed. Go figure.

      IIRC, around here at least, most Ace stores are franchises.  I can see an individual franchise owner deciding it wasn’t worth the risk staying open, while a big-box chain like Home Depot figures that same risk (to their employees, more than their customers) is why they have all those lawyers on payroll.

    125. 125.

      James E Powell

      @Anne Laurie:

      while a big-box chain like Home Depot figures that same risk (to their employees, more than their customers) is why they have all those lawyers on payroll.

      They’re confident that if it gets too bad for them, the government will probably bail them out. After all, JOBS!!!

    129. 129.

      Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

      @James E Powell:

      Was it lying or stupidity or some other mental disease? Trump has infected the whole of the federal government with the fear of pissing off the Great Leader.

      I always thought there was something wrong with “masks don’t work” because why not wear masks? We all buy tiny bottles of stuff and take our shoes off to get on a plane? I have to be searched before I can enter a minor league baseball park in Lake Elsinore California. Why would they not go for the pandemic theater?

      Some people have theorized that authorities didn’t want people hoarding surgical masks and respirators that you can buy in stores. However, I don’t believe this, because I would assume that stores and medical facilities would have separate supply chains or that medical facilities would just have first priority no matter what.

      If that’s what they were concerned about, the feds should’ve just temporarily banned private sales of these types of face masks and explained to the public that medical professionals needed them more for the time being. Then, production would be increased and the general public would have access again

    130. 130.

      James E Powell

      South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem:

      the people themselves are primarily responsible for their safety” and that state and national constitutions “prevent us from taking draconian measures much like the Chinese government has done.” She also added, “South Dakota is not New York City.”

      This worldview is widely shared throughout America, not just in places like South Dakota.

    133. 133.

      Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

      @Major Major Major Major:

      yeah, it’s not like it’s some fringe theory. It’s not like there wasn’t half a world of public health experts for newspapers to interview while reporting on the “masks don’t work” propaganda.

      Hell, a lot of doctors and nurses who you think would know better got on this bandwagon too, downplaying COVID-19 a few weeks ago as “just the flu”. Like Italy wasn’t happening. The PRC, who’s only claim to legitimacy relies on upward economic expansion for it’s citizens, doesn’t just shut down it’s entire economy over something like the flu.

      What’s crazy is how many people would say, “the media is over-hyping this” when all through January and February, they were downplaying and comparing it to seasonal influenza!

      There was an infectious disease specialist from the University of Toronto, Dr. Abdu Sharkawy in early March:

      Infectious Disease Specialist Warns of Overkill When Cancelling Events Over Coronavirus Fears

      The COVID-19 outbreak has prompted officials to cancel big events and public gatherings around the world, but one infectious diseases specialist worries widespread shutdowns could do unintended harm.

      “[It] worries me that we’re going to see a serious hit to our global economy,” said Dr. Abdu Sharkawy, an infectious disease specialist at the University Health Network.

      “And it worries me about the social and the mental health unrest that may evolve from this — again, from people isolating themselves and being more fearful,” he told The Current’s Matt Galloway.

      “We want people to be concerned, we just don’t want them to be panic-stricken to the point that they don’t really know how to cope with this in a positive manner.”

      In Canada at the weekend, organizers announced the cancellation of the Arctic Winter Games, which were due to take place later this month in Whitehorse, Yukon. Athletes who had trained for the biennial event told CBC News that losing their chance to compete was “devastating.”

      Irish officials cancelled St. Patrick’s Day parades scheduled to take place across the country next week, as did organizers of the parade in Boston. Soccer authorities said Monday that at least four major matches — in France, Germany and Spain — would take place with no fans.

      Sharkawy said it’s logical to cancel events that pose a risk of “rapid transmission of the virus.”

      “When we’re talking about scales of thousands of people, it makes very good sense from a public health perspective to cancel events,” he told Galloway.

      But he wondered “if we’re going to see the possibility of movie theatres closing — are we going to see every sporting event being played in front of nobody?”

      “I do wonder if it is a bit overkill at this point in time.”

      Sharkawy suggested events could assessed on an individual basis, along guidelines issued by the Public Health Agency of Canada.

      Sharkawy said he wasn’t trying to trivialize the virus in any way, but that “we have to recognize that 80 per cent or more of people that are afflicted by this are not going to be very sick, they’re not likely to to die.”

      “If it can be a message where we can develop a very good sense of hand hygiene and break the chain of transmission, we’ll protect that vulnerable segment of 20 per cent that will be more likely to succumb to this infection and its complications,” he said.

      He said his advice is to “live your life.”

      “I don’t think it’s practical or sustainable to hole ourselves up in our basements, with an endless supply of toilet paper and canned tuna,” he told Galloway.

      “We will get through this, but we all have to be of the same mindset,” he said.

      “We need to create a system of solidarity and a system of respect and a system of patience, not one of stigma and fear.”

      Some of what he says isn’t unreasonable, but I think the economic hit of people not going to movie theaters, for example is worth it to save lives. He apparently also later changed his mind when it became evident how serious this disease actually is, but he wrote a viral post on Facebook that a lot of people took seriously

    134. 134.

      mrmoshpotato

      Oh these mobster shitpiles. “Nice order of face masks you got there. Be a shame if something happened to them.”

      Trump today: States should stock up and not rely on the federal government.Should have added: Oh, and when you stock up, we'll just take it. https://t.co/MMq52GWgag— The Rude Pundit (@rudepundit) April 5, 2020

    135. 135.

      TS (the original)

      @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

      Some people have theorized that authorities didn’t want people hoarding surgical masks and respirators that you can buy in stores. However, I don’t believe this, because I would assume that stores and medical facilities would have separate supply chains or that medical facilities would just have first priority no matter what.

      From what I am hearing there are no separate supply chains & trump is making sure each state (& probably hospital) has to bid to get supplies – so I think there was some truth in this. In my part of the world there is still no request from government for people to wear masks as a regular thing. No dount it may change.

    136. 136.

      SectionH

      I’m using homemade masks, with several-ply fabrics. Stuck some pellon in the middle of the one I use most. It’s thickish, but I have no idea if it’s useful in actually blocking virus-size particles, I mean in combo with the other layers. Wouldn’t trust any one thing on its own. Now if I could just my sewing machine to work… it picked a helluva time to crap out. Keeps breaking the thread, and I can’t figure out what’s the matter. I hand-sewed the stretchy ties on one mask, which is really really hard for me now (osteoarthritis big time in my right hand), so of course I sized it wrong. [expletive deleted] But that means I need to get the machine working again.

      The seriously easy-to-wear mask I’m trying to make work is the top of a T-shirt where the neck band fits below your eyes and over your nose. Which is a much snugger fit than any of the homemade masks I’ve seen, or the general “I have a bug and don’t want to spread it” kind that’s very common here in San DIego anyway . But then the mask needs to have added layers, preferably at least one layer of better blocking fabrics or whatever that could fit in an inside or outside pocket.

      Not sure how workable that is (and I can’t make the layered without a working sewing machine) but it would eliminate the need for damn straps that need to stretch over your ears or be tied around your head.

      Hmmm, maybe someone should suggest that sewing stores are in fact Essential businesses?

    137. 137.

      Robert Sneddon

      The World Health Organisation’s advice on masks for coronavirus is here.

      TL:DR; wear a mask if you’re caring for someone who’s suffering coronavirus symptoms otherwise don’t bother. Learn HOW to use masks, how to put them on, take them off, dispose of them or sanitise them if you do have to wear one. Follow these rules rigorously. Wash your hands. Stay away from other people (the last two instructions are just driving home what everyone should be doing anyway).

      Front-line medical professionals, first responders etc. are trained how to wear masks properly, they have supervisors and people around them that will catch failures and prevent bad habits developing. Joe Public puts on a mask (home-made or N95-manufactured), fiddles with it continuously because it itches, pulls it down to talk on the phone or have a drink and thinks it makes them invulnerable because they read an article in Nature.

      About the only good thing I can think of about the current mask craze is that it gives people with cabin fever something to do with their hands. P. S. if you lack sewing skills a desk stapler can come in useful.

    138. 138.

      SectionH

      @Robert Sneddon:  Where I live people often use masks in public when they just have colds, so they can’t accidentally cough or sneeze without covering. Which is good. For some of us, allergy season is about 51.5 weeks of the year, but it’s worse right now, so I started wearing a mask because I srsly didn’t want to do the dry coughing thing I’d had for almost 6 weeks, but they didn’t know that, in public, without a mask.

      I live in a shortish high-rise, so I’m well aware that any idiot could leave their calling card in the elevator, and there you go. The HOA has cancelled all renovations, and basically sez “no visitors.” But yeah. Blocks 50%, maybe? Oh well. I admit the masks are otherwise mostly propitiation to Coyote. Which I’m fine with.

      Ok now tell me about Sodium chlorohydrate. I’ve got the EPA website about stuff that’s effective against various viruses and the timing needed to kill them. Sodium chlorohydrate seems to deal with a fair number of viruses, including some that might be ? close-ish to the COVID-19. The stuff I have is a veterinary wipes, so probably pretty dilute, but the warnings about using it are fierce.

    139. 139.

      Bill Arnold

      Here’s what the WHO spokeman says. These things are as far as I can tell from current published science, almost certainly false. WHO issued these recommendations without a clear picture of how this virus spreads. (They fucked up, and need to pivot, and delays in pivoting may cost vast numbers of lives, and the downside risk to a pivot is minimal, except to their reputation.)

      “There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any particular benefit,” WHO’s epidemic chief Mike Ryan said during a news conference this week.

      The evidence is published. It is not specific to slowing transmission in a pandemic, but it is clear; spread from asymptomatic people is happening (e.g. explain the various well-documented superspreader events otherwise, and see the various studies including the April 3 nature medicine study), and mask wearing would block projection of droplets and aerosols from such people.
      Turbulent Gas Clouds and Respiratory Pathogen EmissionsPotential Implications for Reducing Transmission of COVID-19 (Lydia Bourouiba, March 26, 2020)
      Another bit of BS:

      “In fact, there’s some evidence to suggest the opposite,” he added, noting there are risks posed by improperly fitted masks or improperly putting one on or taking one off.

      Bullshit. If there is actual scientific evidence that the net effect of mask wearing by the general population is negative, he should cite it. He’s demanding actual scientific evidence that mask wearing at scale will slow down a pandemic. Evidence for the inverse gathered from health care provider tests does not apply to the population at large, which is likely if wearing a mask to get through the day with no mask contamination, if they’re otherwise being cautious and are not themselves infected.

    140. 140.

      Major Major Major Major

      @Robert Sneddon: the WHO is wrong. Just ask the health authorities in every country that has gotten this right. Asymptomatic people spread the virus everywhere they go and there are a lot of them. Ergo everybody should wear a face covering. It isn’t rocket surgery.

      i know this is a dead thread but I’m a mask crank.

    141. 141.

      Another Scott

      @Major Major Major Major: IMO, there’s too much reporting about masks that is like underpants gnomes.

      1. Masks help stop spread via coughing and sneezing.
      2. “Asymptomatic” means, among other things, that someone is not coughing and sneezing.

      (shrug emoji)

      My take is that the cloth masks that people are being urged to wear will cut down on people spewing aerosols and droplets on others, and help reduce people touching their mouths.  It will help reduce infection a little, but it has little to do with truly asymptomatic people.  Proper masks will help in the transition between truly asymptomatic and symptomatic, though.

      People don’t need N95 masks to stop aerosols and droplets.  N95 is overkill for that.

      FWIW.  Corrections welcome.

      Cheers,
      Scott.

    142. 142.

      J R in WV

      So I have a respirator I bought for hazardous material handling (like pesticides around the farm) and woodworking / sanding dust. Inspecting it, it is a 3M mask and the 60291 filters it came with appear to be n-100 for particulate matter, so better than the n-95 masks used by front line health care providers.

      On the other hand, it is a big old grey plastic device with two big lavender filters, one in each side. I do have a beard, but this mask can be fit really tight, and the filters are so big it appears t me that I am getting a good seal around the edges of the face-mask. I will look like I am a Martian invader, but I’m a hippy — I don’t care what I look like at all.

      I just wish I could get new filters for this puppy for subsequent trips into town. I found another 6-pack of tonic water, so we’ll be holed up at least for another week.

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