NO SEW MASK! ???? Please share with your friends ! pic.twitter.com/ThUh1lKfNt
— Constance Jones (@Constance8News) April 3, 2020
Paper: Surgical face masks effectively block the spread of seasonal coronaviruses in respiratory droplets, suggesting that masks could prevent transmission of SARS-CoV-2. https://t.co/dbGDQW3xaB
— Nature News & Comment (@NatureNews) April 4, 2020
The Oval Office Squatter might not wear one (given the snorting noises, he has enough trouble breathing through his nose that he’s afraid of further obstruction), but it’s beginning to look like the rest of us will be. If only because of social pressure — going out in public ‘undressed’ will start to draw negative attention, and that’s more effective than public health advisories in changing peoples’ behavior.
You’re welcome.#Masks4All pic.twitter.com/BPDpOwbGxf
— HoopGod (@TheeHoopGod) March 29, 2020
From Joseph G. Allen, assistant professor of exposure and assessment science, at the Washington Post, “You need to wear a mask. Here’s how”:
… Now let’s talk about the right way to use masks:
Each person in your home should have a mask — absolutely no sharing. The mask should cover the bridge of your nose and cup your chin. There should be two straps, one that goes above your ear, and the other below How to put it on and take it off — what we call donning and doffing in my field (yes, those are the terms we use) — is also important. To put it on, use one hand to hold the outside of your homemade mask and put the top strap over your head, followed by the strap that goes below your ear. To take it off, don’t touch your mask, which could have infectious particles on it if you came into contact with someone infectious. Instead, take it off using the two straps. If you make one mask, wash it daily. If you make multiple masks, place the recently worn one in a bag and set it aside for five days (there shouldn’t be any virus left after that time). Wear a new one each day. Wash your hands when you’re done
Here is a useful chart on what materials to use for people that want to make a mask themselves. pic.twitter.com/RxwdsJn0uP
— Nemesis (@pard0nmyfr3nch) April 4, 2020
Terrific & useful piece by Mr. @edyong209 about the debate over how SARS-CoV-2 transmits (droplet v aerosol) & what the evidence & the experts say about the public wearing masks. #Covid19 https://t.co/jtiXwUVeVz
— Helen Branswell (@HelenBranswell) April 3, 2020
… In Asia, masks aren’t just shields. They’re also symbols. They’re an affirmation of civic-mindedness and conscientiousness, and such symbols might be important in other parts of the world too. If widely used, masks could signal that society is taking the pandemic threat seriously. They might reduce the stigma foisted on sick people, who would no longer feel ashamed or singled out for wearing one. They could offer reassurance to people who don’t have the privilege of isolating themselves at home, and must continue to work in public spaces. “My staff have also mentioned that having a mask reminds them not to touch their face or put a pen in their mouth,” Bourouiba noted.
Or masks could have the opposite effect. Whenever Santarpia sees someone wearing a mask in public, that person is constantly touching it, futzing with it, and pulling it down to wipe their mouth. “Masks are really uncomfortable, and no one wears them correctly,” he said. “Rather than being protective, you’ve put something on your face that makes you want to touch your face more, or to touch the outside of the mask, which is infectious. You’ve created a hazard for yourself that’s right on your face.”…
(1/2) New study just out, face masks effective for source control against influenza and seasonal coronaviruses, even reducing virus detection in aerosols in patients with coronavirus infections. 5 years of hard work to generate the data https://t.co/nXJOKLVTvk
— Ben Cowling (@bencowling88) April 3, 2020
Long thread:
Yes. Cloth masks (less so than surgical masks & less again than N95 respirators) *can* reduce risk of inhaling potentially (an as yet unproven, but possible route of SARS-CoV-2 infection) infectious aerosols & can protect mouth/nose from impact of larger propelled wet droplets 1/
— ɪᴀɴ ᴍ ᴍᴀᴄᴋᴀʏ, ᴘʜᴅ ?????? (@MackayIM) April 4, 2020
?There have been interesting & innovative additions to cloth mask designs & inserts of late but these haven't been put through tests. They may be more effective than those in earlier studies. More funding of research & some direction might have better-positioned us for now.
4/— ɪᴀɴ ᴍ ᴍᴀᴄᴋᴀʏ, ᴘʜᴅ ?????? (@MackayIM) April 4, 2020
You can iron cloth masks to clean them. Would microwaving work, @c_drosten? https://t.co/nyVIMZaDWy
— Helen Branswell (@HelenBranswell) April 3, 2020
Designers are sewing fabric masks for those of us who want an extra layer of protection against coronavirus—and to ensure medical-grade supplies are reserved for the healthcare workers who really need them. https://t.co/ZXPaofeNmW
— Vogue Magazine (@voguemagazine) April 4, 2020
America isn’t a first world nationpic.twitter.com/d06BjlCmjZ
— Russian Active Measure (@EmilyGorcenski) April 4, 2020
A Ghost to Most
Thanks for the tips. I did some experimenting with my three ply t shirt model. I found the finest nylon mesh I had (1284 tpi!), and it is the innermost layer. It allows moisture to stay in the cotton, not on my face.
Eta the bottom hem of a t shirt makes pretty good straps.
Baud
Mask sex is going to be HOT!
Patricia Kayden
Hubby ordered masks but they haven’t arrived as yet. I guess I can start using my large hair scarves in the meantime.
rikyrah
I will be making myself a mask, while I wait for the ones that I have bought.
rikyrah
@Baud:
????
Brachiator
I like the paper towel improvisation.
People wanted masks
Now they have an excuse to wear masks
Social distance and hand washing is still essential
mali muso
I think I have some scarves and bandanas that I can make work, plus lots of hair elastics. The only time I’ve ventured out in the past few weeks has been a run to Costco to stock up on staples. Now getting my other groceries delivered from Aldi. Hoping to keep the masking to a minimum as long as we’re just hanging out at home.
Gin & Tonic
I’m a long-time active practitioner of two sports/pastimes – snow skiing and road bicycling – in which the prevailing style went fairly quickly from no-helmet to helmet. No legal requirements anywhere, but if you show up on a group ride or at the lift without a helmet on, you are really, really odd. I’m wondering if I’ll see the same phenomenon with masks.
RSA
Wouldn’t it be nice if we had an authoritative source for this kind of information, instead of having to rely on random people on Twitter?
Nemesis points out that vacuum cleaner bags are good for filtering out small particles. But that’s just one criterion. Davies et al., in “Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks: Would They Protect in an Influenza Pandemic?” Disaster Medicine and Public Health Preparedness, 2003, write,
In lay terms, with a high pressure drop, you’re going to have difficulty breathing through a well-sealed mask, or you’ll be breathing around it, obviating its filtering capabilities. We have a Twitter recommendation for a material that is empirically found to be “unsuitable.”
I’m no expert. I am angry at this administration and Republicans in general, for making it so difficult to find reliable information during a crisis.
Miss Bianca
Walked into Ace Hardware in my tiny town this morning, masks are very much in the minority. Not quite convinced of their efficacy except as security theater, personally, so reluctant to start. Will if I have to, I guess, but I’m finding myself oddly resistant to the notion.
Elizabelle
It was so weird yesterday deciding which bandana to use for a trip to the bank lobby. Suited up like a bank robber.
However, the lobby was closed and so drive-through it was. Maskless. There was a county policeman assigned to the bank’s parking lot. He was maskless. Beautiful sunny 70s afternoon.
It seemed most of the shoppers at Lidl yesterday were masked. Not the store staff, though.
RSA
Also, I’m trying to figure out whether we’re living in a libertarian paradise, with oppressive government regulations out of the way and states competing for medical supplies on the open market. On the other hand, it could be a socialist hellhole, with the forced shut-down of private businesses and the give-aways to people unable to work. Hmm, maybe libertarianism doesn’t provide the right framing concepts…
Martin
Data time:
Italy: +681. A little bit down, but not enough to establish a trend. This is day 16 in the range. But Italy is reporting a drop in ICU cases, so their fatalities should be dropping around now. I mean, everything is going in the right direction in Italy. It’s just a matter of timing and degree. Spain is reporting lower fatalities, but I’m not sure it’s a meaningful number. I’ll be adding a Spain model. If it is meaningful, it’ll mean they could turn fatalities lower in a way that neither Italy or China could. Understanding why could be useful.
US: +1320. I swear to God, if you are looking for a dataset to perfectly illustrate exponential behavior in a social context, you couldn’t find anything clearer than US fatalities. We are just bang-on. Slope of the log of the data fits R2=0.995. This is where I question the IHME model showing a peak +2600 fatalities on 4/16. We’re on track to hit that by Tues or Wed unless NY stalls out completely, and I don’t see why that would happen this early. So, I don’t think iHME has a bad model overall, but I think they are more determined to fit to a gaussian function than they are to connecting that function to known triggers. Anyway, as delightful as this data trend is to a statistician, this is someone dying every minute, and that’s horrific.
NY: +630. So NY is nearly half the nation’s daily fatalities. Their trend continues to settle slightly. Their 7 day trend continues to diverge from their overall trend, but it’s slow and it started from a very high initial trend, but where the model was predicting simply impossible numbers, now it’s predicting bad but at least plausible ones. They should still see +thousands numbers. Send help to NY. And NJ is right on their tail.
CA: +24. Again, easing like NY is. A small, slow divergence from trend. The upshot here is that as we race toward our lockdown payoff, the easing looks like it will keep CA below +100/day. I think I can say that Santa Clara has completely stalled out on fatalities. Same for other bay area counties. They shouldn’t have any appreciable growth in daily fatalities from here out. It may be weeks before they drop, but this should also indicate that their hospital pressure will soon ease and fall off. Curve flattened! LA is seeing similar easing to the state, but again, mild. LA may get to +40 or so, but they should be able to carry that with surge capacity. ICU cases are still climbing in my county but hospitalizations are not. They’re discharging non-ICU cases as fast as new non-ICU cases are coming in, but ICU cases keep piling up because they spend so long there. So to the extent that they can convert ICU beds and have a few thousand respirators, they should be fine – and surrounding counties should be able to pitch in. Good work CA.
FL: +25, FWIW. Their data is all over the place. But their model (uniquely) keeps trending upward. In fact, their 7 day trendline is now steeper than NYs 7 day. Maybe it’s hitting the retirement communities and wasn’t there before? Anyway, if fatalities don’t turn until 21 days after lockdown, they’re looking at something in the +3000 range. Hopefully FL took voluntary measures before the state action and can avoid that.
Amir Khalid
@A Ghost to Most:
So would a shoelace, I think. One could use a new pair of them to make a mask.
Elizabelle
I wish we could get Trump to wear a mask. Am sick of seeing his face. Enough.
Martin
@Elizabelle: It’d smudge the orange make-up.
Another Scott
I made a mask from an old medium-size white t-shirt similar to the 2-minute YouTube of a no-sew dusk mask that’s been going around. I folded over the bottom to give 4 layers of fabric maybe 5″ wide, cut it, cut out 1″ long straps, etc. It was easy to tie on without knots. I then went on a ~ 1 hour walk with our doggie Ellie around noon. It worked OK. The part over my nose did try to slowly slide down over time, and there were times when my exhalation made my glasses fog up, and the extra humidity made my nose more runny than usual, but it was workable.
I’m thinking of sewing the edges of the 4 layers together, and using shoestrings instead of rubber bands or the t-shirt material for ties, to make it a little more stable on my face.
I also ordered some bandanas from Etsy and from Nordstrom yesterday – Amazon seems to be sold out (as one might expect). If I come up with a more optimized design for my face, I’ll eventually have more stylish fabric to use.
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
My wife has been making them for three days now.
Jinchi
Remembering that the numbers of infected appear to be doubling every 2-3 days in many places, if one of your neighbors was infected 2 weeks ago, dozens of them would be infected today. The peak looks to be another 2 weeks off at best, at which point hundreds could be. The risk of exposure is getting much higher.
Kelly
As I have mentioned before I use my neck gaiter (a kind of ski mask not a big growth on my neck) over the top of a bandit style bandanna mask. The neck gaiter is very stretchy which seals the edges a bit. Tucks into my collar, reaches above my nose and around my head like a big turtleneck. Entirely covers my beard. The bandanna is doubled over so I have 3 layers.
Recommend whatever you wear give it a good long try at home so you don’t find you need to fiddle with it out in the world.
HumboldtBlue
I have two sisters (including the one who was in Morocco when the pandemic took fire and who just managed to make it home with her husband) who have been sewing masks for a month. Hospitals can’t use them but everyone else can. Getting enough elastic has been a minor issue.
CaseyL
I still have some craft respirators, which I can use/wash out/re-use. I’m hardly leaving the house at all (other than to get mail and take out trash) so a couple of masks should last me a while.
Dish towels? Dish towels! I have more of those than God. My Mom sent me a whole stack of them ages ago and they’ve been stuffed into the back of a cabinet ever since.
What I lack are rubber bands and surplus hair-ties.
Oklahomo
My stepfather is a cancer survivor with one lung. The family doc gave us all masks and told us to keep him home and for us to go masked and gloved two weeks ago.
lamh36
Sigh.
I sincerely hope people do not think wearing a mask means they are free and clear to no longer have to follow stay at home orders.
Yes a mask offers some protection, but you know what offers more, staying home social distancing. That is how we will control and flatten the curve of this pandemic.
My biggest fear is that too many people will take wearing a mask as some type of fail safe against this virus.
So sure wear a mask, but please only leave the house do for ESSENTIAL reasons only?
Also too please learn proper care and disposal of whatever mask you plan to use for extended use
Bill Arnold
I’m not going into a store of any sort until mask wearing breaks 50% in my area or it’s mandatory at the store (“private property” – they get to make the rules). It has not yet – too many Trump supporters and skeptics. Confirmed infection rate in my county is 1% and real probably 5 times that, some without symptoms (pre or asymptomatic), so maybe 1 in 20 to 1 in 50 2-way interactions are with an infected person; I would very much prefer that they (infected persons) were masked. Plus I do not have 100 percent confidence that I’m not personally infected, so blocking my particle spray from breathing/talking(/coughing/sneezing) is a public good, statistically. (I am not coughing or sneezing.[3])
And look carefully at anyone who is saying that the science is not there for mask wearing. (I mean ask why the skepticism.) There are a lot of papers[2], none show a detrimental effect, and many show a significant effect. At least one metanalysis[0], and also a nature paper yesterday.[1]
[1] Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks (Nature Medicine, 03 April 2020)
Surgical face masks significantly reduced detection of influenza virus RNA in respiratory droplets and coronavirus RNA in aerosols, with a trend toward reduced detection of coronavirus RNA in respiratory droplets. Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals.
(pdf)
[0] Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses (06 July 2011)
These data suggest that wearing a surgical mask or a N95 mask is the measure with the most consistent and comprehensive supportive evidence. Seven out of eight studies included masks as a measure in their study and six out of seven of these studies found masks to be statistically significant in multivariable analysis.
[2] Papers about effectiveness of basic masks
[3] Curiously, I have not coughed much at all (am cough-prone) since upping vitamin D to 4000IU per day (I’m large, 2000IU probably enough for smaller people.) Also vitamin E (200mg per day, but not more and 10-40 mg zinc per day also have reasonably supportive science re respiratory infections. These from a piece in this week’s New Scientist; I can’t drop more links in this comment.No evidence yet that it applies to COVID-19, but evidence exists for other viruses.
Martin
@raven: Ms Martin has as well. She decided to take the weekend off after making 200 masks and will resume Monday with some Model 1 v3 masks (replaceable filters for front line workers), Model 2 v1 masks (fitted/washable for regular folks) and prototyping Model 3 v1. Model 3 will dispense with the elastic and go with a flexible fabric and velcro. She’s sourced some more non-woven poly, so she’s good for another few hundred. She’s trying to get enough different styles that she can make what she has the resources for.
It has now turned into who can dig up the wildest fabric for a mask. I think she’s sourced some twink construction worker fabric.
Amir Khalid
The paper towel and rubber bands mask sounds like a good idea, but I might consider using a double thickness of paper towel for sturdiness and better filtration efficiency.
raven
@Martin: She smiled as I read this to her.
The Dangerman
@Miss Bianca:
Will if I have to, I guess; I followed their suggestions and let the masks go to the frontliners…
…so if they want me to wear a mask, when they are on the shelves, I’ll buy, I guess.
jl
Huh, can’t reply to great comment by Martin. Wonder what is up?
Anyway, thanks for information.
raven
@Amir Khalid: OT, have you seen “The English Game” by the guy who did Dowton Abbey? It’s a six part series on Netflix about Fergus Suter and Jimmy Love and Arthur Kinnaird. The football parts aren’t very good but it’s fairly interesting.
Scout211
I made the fitted style of mask for the two of us 2 weeks ago. For the last two days, I have been making the pleated style for my daughter and her family of 5. I liked that design so I made two of the pleated kind for us, too. I will be making another one for our neighbor who is in his 70s and lives alone.
debbie
@lamh36:
Every report I’ve watched or heard has emphasized a mask won’t protect you from others, but will protect others should you be asymptomatic.
I tossed my bandanas years ago, so have ordered a mask from etsy which should be here by next weekend, unless their shipping has become crappier than Amazon’s now seems to be.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Out of curiosity: Does anybody know if those rectangular furnace filters or those central AC filters could be turned into masks or be effective at filtering viral particles/aerosols?
I have some blue cup surgical masks and 10 N95 respirators. I figure they can be reused multiple times for trips out to the grocery store and left alone between uses for several days to let any viral particles die
Martin
@raven: She likes having her hobby be extra useful. I like finding a use for the fabric I’ve moved to 4 houses over 25 years because it might be useful some day. The day has finally come.
raven
@Martin: Tell me about it! We haven’t moved much but, damn! We drove 50 miles Friday to get some elastic from a friend. She’s been doing “thread paintings”but decided to do this for a bit. This is a thread painting of the Bohdi on a pillow.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@debbie:
Somewhat true, as even with an N95 or better respirator, the masks won’t offer 100% protection because of lack of proper fit testing, BUT it will still better than nothing for sure; and surgical and cloth masks will offer some protection as well. Along with these masks, people definitely should use social distancing when in public and stay home as much as possible
Bill Arnold
I saw an unmasked family of 10 enter a grocery store today. I was simply scouting (car window closed, vent on recirculate, car has cabin air filter) to see level of mask compliance which seems to be stuck at about 20% today in my town.
chris
@CaseyL: Site went 520 and ate my previous comment so trying again.
Try this T-Shirt Yarn. It works well
ETA: Yay, it worked. Anyone else having problems today?
raven
@Bill Arnold: We had a second refrigerator delivered today and the guys both wore masks.
Bill Arnold
From thread below, coughing, sneezing, talking resulting in microdroplets floating in air, very interesting video.
Micro droplets suspending in air
Doesn’t directly address mask usage but obviously masks would block much of the projection of droplets during talking (and breathing) at least, and probably during coughing, sneezing too. Also an interesting bit about clearing the air with proper ventilation.
rikyrah
@raven:
Does your wife sell them?
raven
@rikyrah: No, the mail-delivery lady said her hubby was recovering from a heart attack but still working at a plumbing supply place so we gave her one. She’s making some to give to the hospital to go over the n95’s and then a bunch for friends and family. Almost everyone that learns she’s making them asks.
rikyrah
@Martin:
Like Mrs. raven, I ask….does she sell them and if so, how.can I purchase a few?
raven
Local officials previously closed beaches on Tybee and St. Simons islands, while the state-owned Jekyll Island also closed its beaches. Kemp’s order, which took effect Friday, nullified local ordinances that did not match the statewide shelter-in-place order, doing away with many local actions such as beach closures.
Martin
@raven: That’s legit amazing.
We got elastic/non-woven poly from a local linen manufacturer. Their sales are down right now, so they have inventory of materials and they’re doing some mask production but they can’t use up all of their inventory on that, so they were happy to sell to us making masks.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Martin:
Has she thought about using virus-rated furnace/central AC filters as mask material? Apparently people have been making DIY masks out of them
raven
raven
@Martin: Good deal.
Tdjr
@raven: I would set parking rates a $500 an hour or something. That should keep the riff raff out. ?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@raven:
Oh yeah, I totally trust the word of the guy that oversaw his own election and won by razor-thin margins /s
If I was a mayor in Georgia, I’d tell Kemp to go fuck himself sideways and dare him to arrest/fine me.
I have an old HS friend in the army who lives in Augusta, Georgia with his wife. He had asthma during childhood. He’s very fit and healthy because he did crossfit training to try to get into Westpoint, but ended up going the ROTC route. I’m worried about him and I’m furious with Kemp
raven
@Tdjr: Tybee is tiny and Jekyll is a bit bigger. I don’t like the water at either one.
Barbara
I made a mask this morning. It is too big so I am going to insert darts and modify. I am going out so little that I feel like it isn’t necessary. My husband has three or four N95s that he bought for dust generating projects, which I can also use. I am still so angry.
Another Scott
@chris: I haven’t noticed any posting issues. Let WaterGirl know in the “Site Feedback” link (in the Contact Us section on the menu line at the top of the screen), just in case.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Gordon is a pit but it’s now the center for cyber-security and Augusta College has a brand new program to try to take advantage of it.
Timurid
I’m still struggling with the calculus on groceries. I could go another 3 weeks or so without a grocery trip, but is that a good idea. We currently have ~250 confirmed cases in a city of about 150,000. In 3 weeks it will be more, so every person I see while shopping will have a higher chance of being infected. But traffic may be lower, and people (both the store staff and the customers) may be more serious about safety by then.
mrmoshpotato
@Elizabelle: It’s a science experiment!
Elizabelle
@raven: That is one amazing pillow.
CaseyL
@chris: I am gobsmacked by the ingenuity. How do people come up with this stuff? She must have been dismembering some material for something else, pulled on it, watched it become “string” all by itself, and a lightbulb went off. Thank you!
(My comments have been getting “520’d” all evening; I first noticed it when trying to link to photos in the Artists Among Us thread.)
dnfree
The senior community (people 55 and over) I live in has several volunteers sewing masks. Orders are taken by email, payment left on the front door and masks delivered, and the proceeds are being donated to a local food pantry. Can’t think of a better plan than that! Limit is two masks per household and orders are still coming in. Because it benefits a food pantry, some people donate more than the designated cost.
mrmoshpotato
@Elizabelle: It’d get in the way of Dump sucking Putin’s ass.
Barbara
@raven: Those guys are coming into contact with a lot of people, as are grocery store workers, so that all makes sense to me. The skiing gaiter is a great idea I have several and they cover more area comfortably.
Eunicecycle
I made the folding type masks out of my dad’s old handkerchiefs. When he passed away I kept them for some reason. He always had a clean white handkerchief. I didn’t know what I would ever do with them, so I’m glad I can make them something useful.
Martin
@rikyrah: I’ll ask how much of her new batch are spoken for.
chris
Via r/Ireland: Even the cats get it.
mrmoshpotato
@Martin: Too warm for my fleece balaclavas – black with jolly Rogers, Curious George and one with bears (to ward off Stephen Colbert).
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@raven:
Oh yeah, I believe that’s where he’s based out of. He went to college for IT
Bill Arnold
@Barbara:
I had some furniture moved this week (need to empty out a house for a (so far)pending closing, yay!) and when I called the young man with a pickup truck (he needed the work, reduced hours) he was very happy when I informed him I would be wearing a mask. Turned out he lives at home with older parents ((both over 60) and they’ve had him on on limited contact rules and he doesn’t want to kill him. I expect that delivery people would be happy to see everyone they contact wearing masks.
We kept distant but he did not wear a mask (sigh) but that was mainly because he didn’t have one.
Martin
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): We have a decent amount of non-woven poly – the material the N95s are made out of. They’re either incorporated into the central layer of the mask, or for the ones with a removable filter, you just cut a rectangle of it and put it in the pocket.
mrmoshpotato
@raven: Brian Kemp (Mayor) – Amity Island
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Elizabelle: We should get Trump a gag-ball, tired of hearing him as well.
ziggy
Is it gauche to wear an N95 mask? I have a few, I looked into donating them, but they want unopened boxes only. I’ve tried scarves, they are very hot and the masks are much more comfortable. I also have a couple of dirty, torn dust masks. Thinking about making a stylish cover for the N95s.
Amir Khalid
I’m getting intermittent 520 errors. I think Yutsano did too. Can any front-pager take a quick look under the hood?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Amir Khalid: me three
Another Scott
@ziggy: I found a few ~ 10 year old (unused) N95 masks in my basement. I bought them for sanding drywall when we refurbished our family room.
I don’t plan on using them going out – I’m saving them if one of us gets sick and has to care for the other while we self-quarantine…
:-(
If you feel you need to wear them outside, just tell the truth if someone asks. If someone is going to be a jerk about it, it’s on them. Wearing them outside is overkill, IMHO, but do what you need to do to be comfortable in your own skin.
HTH a little.
Cheers,
Scott.
ziggy
Yes! but I think he’s too vain. One with a pig snout would look perfect.
Cheryl from Maryland
For my home sewn cloth masks, I used ribbon and or seam binding as I didn’t have any elastic. Cut 4 lengths of about 18” long for each corner. The ribbon/seam binding is polyester so it can be tied for a good fit and is washable.
Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA)
I’ve seen a couple of articles saying shop towels were better than bandanas, but I haven’t seen actual medical experts weighing in. Does anyone know if there’s any truth to this?
Linky.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@lamh36: This is true, and a mask is not a substitute for social distancing when you have to be out.
Martin
Florida continuing to take things seriously.
I’m sure public officials have nothing better to do during a pandemic than dealing with your explosives and firearms laden gender reveal party.
Mallard Filmore
I am dumping my opinion here before reading the comments and hoping this thread is not stale before finishing.
Here is my totally unscientific view of personal and non-professional facemasks:
When my son was 6 years old, I took him to an outdoor birthday party at a local park. During a pause in the kids activities, I was sitting in the shade watching two other adults talk to each other. I was sitting in exactly the right place, with exactly the right angle of sunshine, to watch spit dropplets pop out and spray from each speaker.
They were not particularly “wet” speakers, not shouting, simply talking in a normal voice. Yet those sparkling little dropletts constantly jumped from the lips of each speaker.
We are not in a chemical or biological war. A mask that is completely disease proof is not the point. Hell, even covering your mouth with an old T-shirt will stop (mostly) your spray. The point is to stop YOUR droplets to yourself, and provide some, maybe weak, barrier to the bombardment from others.
I vote for a mask when going out.
dww44
@Martin: LOL!
chris
@Timurid: I’ve been going to the store once a week and quietly loading up. The plan is to have enough nonperishable food to get by for several months if things go really pearshaped. If they don’t, well, I like lentils and sardines and canned milk in my coffee.
Just a thought.
charluckles
Wearing a mask just seems like the polite thing to do anytime you walk into a retail store or restaurant. I’ve been going to the same grocery store for a decade and yesterday the manager and his longtime employees all looked like they had been through hell. If for nothing else I want them to know that I am taking their health and safety seriously and that I appreciate them.
A Ghost to Most
@Miss Bianca: Your Ace is open? Ours is shut down.
Mike in NC
Fat Bastard won’t wear a mask (even though his ugly bloated head should be wrapped with several layers of duct tape) for the same reason he won’t wear reading glasses, a hearing aid, and has lifts in his shoes. Vainest prick that ever lived.
Miss Bianca
@A Ghost to Most: Hardware store isn’t considered an essential business?
A Ghost to Most
@Amir Khalid: True, but it is an old, beloved t shirt from Grand Tetons NP. I’m trying to see how much I can salvage. Sort of an engineering exercise.
A Ghost to Most
@Miss Bianca: Home Depot is open, Ace is closed. Go figure.
Yutsano
@Amir Khalid: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I haven’t had one for a while but to be fair I wasn’t on for a while either. But I’m seeing intermittent reports. Something might be going cattywampus under the hood.
Jackie
@A Ghost to Most: Ours (Kennewick, WA) is open for curbside pickup. Locally owned, so family business.
BBA
@Martin: Gender was a mistake.
MomSense
@Martin:
I used bra cups to make masks – work really well and they come with elastic.
chris
@MomSense: For the knitters.
Could you? Should you? Yes, please!
A Ghost to Most
In act of unity, Denverites howl, cheer together every night
Is this happening elsewhere?
Martin
@MomSense: Well, beats the jock strap mask by a mile.
MomSense
@chris: Thats awesome and a little scary!
MomSense
@Martin:
I saw some thong masks, too.
Jackie
Watergirl, tried to report a 520 error. I got a 520 error when I hit submit??♀️
Lyrebird
@Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA): There’s a summary of the results of a UK study on mask materials in this article…
Cotton tea towels seem close to the top.
Has anyone found research links about liner materials e.g. paper towels or mesh?
Sebastian
I would HIGHLY recommend to add two sheets of blue contractor paper towels in there. It improves filtration to almost N95 levels. Make sure to have a really good fit along the edges though or it doesn’t matter how good the filtration is.
Sebastian
@Lyrebird:
Vacuum bags are only bested by genuine N95 masks. Miele has some of the best. Amazon is already running low.
Yutsano
@Jackie: Just had one after a refresh.
CaseyL
@Lyrebird: Cotton teatowels or dish towels made of terrycloth?
Kattails
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): A comment I saw was “My mask helps protect you and your mask helps protect me.” Social distancing still being the caveat.
Someone else likened it to the image of a door. One big football player is still small enough to get through no problem. Three football players trying to cram through at once is another story. So I guess, after a lot of reading here and other places, is the fewer bits that get onto you, the better, the easier to wash off or have your system fend off. The fewer aerosols anyone puts out, the better. Ventilation is good.
Lyrebird
@CaseyL: I’ve tried to read it carefully, and I think they mean flat-woven cotton tea towels. They list linen separately, so not linen ones, and if they just meant terrycloth towels, why would they say tea towels and not just terry toweling?
@Sebastian: Very true. I like the part though where they bring in such formal language to point out that the vacuum filters are darn awkward:
Bill Arnold
@MomSense:
OK, compelled to link this patent now:
Garment device convertible to one or more facemasks (2007)
And the first independent claim:
The owner re-upped it somehow (something expired) early March 2020. (Your improv is not infringing by my reading.)
Dog Dawg Damn
@ziggy:
we are use tea cloths over N100’s for a few reasons.
1) tea cloth was shown to be 66% as effective as N95
2) they hide the sophisticated looking N100 and look homemade
3) they can be washed after each use, saving the mask underneath
We only have 1 mask each. Extending its life is important, and no, I don’t blame people for acquiring masks. The Govt has been derelict and would like to blame consumers…we bought ours from Sherwin Williams in January. Nothing stopped Trump from buying those masks then, so I refuse to blame those of us with some foresight, so long as no one boards or profiteers.
Jackie
@Yutsano: I get one after EVERY refresh. Has BJ been Coronavirus compromised?
CaseyL
@Lyrebird: Well, darn. I have oodles of dish towels, only a few tea towels. Still, they should go a long way. I have to go get catfood at some point, which means leaving the house.
That seems like a more-than-minor problem with the mask!
Kayla Rudbek
@Martin: My husband was griping at me Friday and Saturday about my fabric and yarn stashes. At least I donated a good amount of fabric stash due to a request on NextDoor.
Sebastian
@Lyrebird:
You cut the bag into sheets and then build the mask. Lol I am not sure if the comments were snarky, I don’t think anyone believes you strap a vacuum bag to your face?
It’s about the material. Dissemble the bag, cut it into sheets and proceed with the remaining steps to build the mask.
edit: apologies, I thought you were responding to my comment. I feel silly now.
mrmoshpotato
Major Major Major Major
At the bare minimum, masks significantly decrease the amount of virus an infected person is spewing. Many such people are asymptomatic. Universal masks are a perfectly sensible public-health protocol; we don’t even have to debate how effective they are at preventing inhalation.
Proud to have been a mask crank from day one.
Mandalay
U.S. Surgeon General on February 29:
U.S. Surgeon General on April 4:
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Martin:
Oh ok, gotcha.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Mandalay:
They lied to us. I always thought the “masks don’t work” thing was bullshit
Jim, Foolish Literalist
meanwhile…
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Kattails:
Pretty much. Viral loads you are exposed to matter. Lessening that in any way is important
Odie Hugh Manatee
In our small conservative hellhole (beautiful area though!) people are still taking their spouses and even kids shopping while ignoring keeping a safe distance. My wife and our daughter work at the local big box store (aka the social center of our community) and I think the store manager is taking the Trump approach to handling this, such as having employees attempt to restock shelves while customers are taking the products out of their hands. Another is not encouraging employees to wear a mask. He laughed at our daughter deciding to wear a P-95 mask to protect herself since she has lots of exposure to morons while acting as Defender and Distributor of the Toilet Paper of the Apocalypse. She bought the mask during the fires of 2017 and had a set of new cartridges for it so she put it to work. I’m sending my wife to work on Monday with one of my P-95 masks (I use them for fiberglass work, sanding, painting and the like) because he doesn’t seem to be taking this seriously. He does nothing to stop parents from letting their kids run around the store, which is fucking stupid. But at least he sends an employee around the store once an hour to remind people to keep their distance!
One other interesting thing is that shoplifting is through the roof because I guess that’s what people do when they think the end is near. One interesting theft is someone stealing rib eye steaks and discarding the packages throughout the store over several days. That’s now going on with a variety of products because I guess it cuts down on packaging? A local police officer’s wife was recently busted for stealing about 4K in stuff, which really blows my mind. As an aside, she asked if they could call the sheriffs department instead of the city cops to keep her husband from finding out right away. Regarding toilet paper hoarding, our daughter says that she sees the same people nearly every day, some bringing other family members to each grab their limit of one package per day. Some of them know that she recognizes them and make excuses like they are picking some up for a neighbor or a friend.
MAGA hat wearing old fucks keep coming up to them and telling them that this is all bullshit and my wife and our daughter wish they would STFU and keep their distance but that ain’t happening because they are pants-shitting whiny old fucks.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Major Major Major Major:
You and me both. I think it really is about cultural norms for why Americans and westerners in general don’t like mask wearing. Asian countries in the last 20 years have had to deal with disease outbreaks, along with pollution, so that’s why public mask wearing is not only considered accepted but socially responsible
James E Powell
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Was it lying or stupidity or some other mental disease? Trump has infected the whole of the federal government with the fear of pissing off the Great Leader.
I always thought there was something wrong with “masks don’t work” because why not wear masks? We all buy tiny bottles of stuff and take our shoes off to get on a plane? I have to be searched before I can enter a minor league baseball park in Lake Elsinore California. Why would they not go for the pandemic theater?
Mandalay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Another tweet from the Surgeon General on March 6:
He has since deleted the tweet, but not before some unkind folks took a screen shot. What a dangerous fucking idiot. How the hell does he still have his job?
The first thing President Biden should do when he takes office is fire that bozo.
Anne Laurie
IIRC, around here at least, most Ace stores are franchises. I can see an individual franchise owner deciding it wasn’t worth the risk staying open, while a big-box chain like Home Depot figures that same risk (to their employees, more than their customers) is why they have all those lawyers on payroll.
James E Powell
@Anne Laurie:
They’re confident that if it gets too bad for them, the government will probably bail them out. After all, JOBS!!!
MisterForkbeard
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I saw that too. Apparently he wants to wait until at least after Wisconsin to do so, and I’m skeptical he’ll do it. But props to him if he does.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Mandalay:
Oh, it’s just the flu, it’s just the flu
Whatever are you gonna do?
Shut down Park Avenue?
No way!
It’s just the flu!
I’ve been watching too many old Hollywood musicals lately….
Anyway, yeah, he should be fired pronto
Major Major Major Major
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): yeah, it’s not like it’s some fringe theory. It’s not like there wasn’t half a world of public health experts for newspapers to interview while reporting on the “masks don’t work” propaganda.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@James E Powell:
Some people have theorized that authorities didn’t want people hoarding surgical masks and respirators that you can buy in stores. However, I don’t believe this, because I would assume that stores and medical facilities would have separate supply chains or that medical facilities would just have first priority no matter what.
If that’s what they were concerned about, the feds should’ve just temporarily banned private sales of these types of face masks and explained to the public that medical professionals needed them more for the time being. Then, production would be increased and the general public would have access again
James E Powell
South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem:
This worldview is widely shared throughout America, not just in places like South Dakota.
smike
@James E Powell:
A lot of them are right wingers, so of course they’ll get bailed out.
Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA)
@Sebastian: A/k/a shop towels. That answers that.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Major Major Major Major:
Hell, a lot of doctors and nurses who you think would know better got on this bandwagon too, downplaying COVID-19 a few weeks ago as “just the flu”. Like Italy wasn’t happening. The PRC, who’s only claim to legitimacy relies on upward economic expansion for it’s citizens, doesn’t just shut down it’s entire economy over something like the flu.
What’s crazy is how many people would say, “the media is over-hyping this” when all through January and February, they were downplaying and comparing it to seasonal influenza!
There was an infectious disease specialist from the University of Toronto, Dr. Abdu Sharkawy in early March:
Some of what he says isn’t unreasonable, but I think the economic hit of people not going to movie theaters, for example is worth it to save lives. He apparently also later changed his mind when it became evident how serious this disease actually is, but he wrote a viral post on Facebook that a lot of people took seriously
mrmoshpotato
Oh these mobster shitpiles. “Nice order of face masks you got there. Be a shame if something happened to them.”
TS (the original)
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
From what I am hearing there are no separate supply chains & trump is making sure each state (& probably hospital) has to bid to get supplies – so I think there was some truth in this. In my part of the world there is still no request from government for people to wear masks as a regular thing. No dount it may change.
SectionH
I’m using homemade masks, with several-ply fabrics. Stuck some pellon in the middle of the one I use most. It’s thickish, but I have no idea if it’s useful in actually blocking virus-size particles, I mean in combo with the other layers. Wouldn’t trust any one thing on its own. Now if I could just my sewing machine to work… it picked a helluva time to crap out. Keeps breaking the thread, and I can’t figure out what’s the matter. I hand-sewed the stretchy ties on one mask, which is really really hard for me now (osteoarthritis big time in my right hand), so of course I sized it wrong. [expletive deleted] But that means I need to get the machine working again.
The seriously easy-to-wear mask I’m trying to make work is the top of a T-shirt where the neck band fits below your eyes and over your nose. Which is a much snugger fit than any of the homemade masks I’ve seen, or the general “I have a bug and don’t want to spread it” kind that’s very common here in San DIego anyway . But then the mask needs to have added layers, preferably at least one layer of better blocking fabrics or whatever that could fit in an inside or outside pocket.
Not sure how workable that is (and I can’t make the layered without a working sewing machine) but it would eliminate the need for damn straps that need to stretch over your ears or be tied around your head.
Hmmm, maybe someone should suggest that sewing stores are in fact Essential businesses?
Robert Sneddon
The World Health Organisation’s advice on masks for coronavirus is here.
TL:DR; wear a mask if you’re caring for someone who’s suffering coronavirus symptoms otherwise don’t bother. Learn HOW to use masks, how to put them on, take them off, dispose of them or sanitise them if you do have to wear one. Follow these rules rigorously. Wash your hands. Stay away from other people (the last two instructions are just driving home what everyone should be doing anyway).
Front-line medical professionals, first responders etc. are trained how to wear masks properly, they have supervisors and people around them that will catch failures and prevent bad habits developing. Joe Public puts on a mask (home-made or N95-manufactured), fiddles with it continuously because it itches, pulls it down to talk on the phone or have a drink and thinks it makes them invulnerable because they read an article in Nature.
About the only good thing I can think of about the current mask craze is that it gives people with cabin fever something to do with their hands. P. S. if you lack sewing skills a desk stapler can come in useful.
SectionH
@Robert Sneddon: Where I live people often use masks in public when they just have colds, so they can’t accidentally cough or sneeze without covering. Which is good. For some of us, allergy season is about 51.5 weeks of the year, but it’s worse right now, so I started wearing a mask because I srsly didn’t want to do the dry coughing thing I’d had for almost 6 weeks, but they didn’t know that, in public, without a mask.
I live in a shortish high-rise, so I’m well aware that any idiot could leave their calling card in the elevator, and there you go. The HOA has cancelled all renovations, and basically sez “no visitors.” But yeah. Blocks 50%, maybe? Oh well. I admit the masks are otherwise mostly propitiation to Coyote. Which I’m fine with.
Ok now tell me about Sodium chlorohydrate. I’ve got the EPA website about stuff that’s effective against various viruses and the timing needed to kill them. Sodium chlorohydrate seems to deal with a fair number of viruses, including some that might be ? close-ish to the COVID-19. The stuff I have is a veterinary wipes, so probably pretty dilute, but the warnings about using it are fierce.
Bill Arnold
Here’s what the WHO spokeman says. These things are as far as I can tell from current published science, almost certainly false. WHO issued these recommendations without a clear picture of how this virus spreads. (They fucked up, and need to pivot, and delays in pivoting may cost vast numbers of lives, and the downside risk to a pivot is minimal, except to their reputation.)
The evidence is published. It is not specific to slowing transmission in a pandemic, but it is clear; spread from asymptomatic people is happening (e.g. explain the various well-documented superspreader events otherwise, and see the various studies including the April 3 nature medicine study), and mask wearing would block projection of droplets and aerosols from such people.
Turbulent Gas Clouds and Respiratory Pathogen EmissionsPotential Implications for Reducing Transmission of COVID-19 (Lydia Bourouiba, March 26, 2020)
Another bit of BS:
Bullshit. If there is actual scientific evidence that the net effect of mask wearing by the general population is negative, he should cite it. He’s demanding actual scientific evidence that mask wearing at scale will slow down a pandemic. Evidence for the inverse gathered from health care provider tests does not apply to the population at large, which is likely if wearing a mask to get through the day with no mask contamination, if they’re otherwise being cautious and are not themselves infected.
Major Major Major Major
@Robert Sneddon: the WHO is wrong. Just ask the health authorities in every country that has gotten this right. Asymptomatic people spread the virus everywhere they go and there are a lot of them. Ergo everybody should wear a face covering. It isn’t rocket surgery.
i know this is a dead thread but I’m a mask crank.
Another Scott
@Major Major Major Major: IMO, there’s too much reporting about masks that is like underpants gnomes.
(shrug emoji)
My take is that the cloth masks that people are being urged to wear will cut down on people spewing aerosols and droplets on others, and help reduce people touching their mouths. It will help reduce infection a little, but it has little to do with truly asymptomatic people. Proper masks will help in the transition between truly asymptomatic and symptomatic, though.
People don’t need N95 masks to stop aerosols and droplets. N95 is overkill for that.
FWIW. Corrections welcome.
Cheers,
Scott.
J R in WV
So I have a respirator I bought for hazardous material handling (like pesticides around the farm) and woodworking / sanding dust. Inspecting it, it is a 3M mask and the 60291 filters it came with appear to be n-100 for particulate matter, so better than the n-95 masks used by front line health care providers.
On the other hand, it is a big old grey plastic device with two big lavender filters, one in each side. I do have a beard, but this mask can be fit really tight, and the filters are so big it appears t me that I am getting a good seal around the edges of the face-mask. I will look like I am a Martian invader, but I’m a hippy — I don’t care what I look like at all.
I just wish I could get new filters for this puppy for subsequent trips into town. I found another 6-pack of tonic water, so we’ll be holed up at least for another week.