This imbecile:
Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly made an unhinged speech to the crew members of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, in which he lashed out at former Capt. Brett E. Crozier and told sailors to stop complaining and do their jobs.
Modly fired Crozier on April 2, two days after the San Francisco Chronicle published a leaked copy of a memo written by Crozier, in which he warned his superiors that sailors aboard the aircraft carrier would die of the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) unless about 90% of the crew were moved into individual quarantine. Crozier has since tested positive for the coronavirus.
“If he didn’t think, in my opinion, that this information wasn’t going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive, or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this,” Modly told the Theodore Roosevelt’s crew on April 5. “The alternative is that he did this on purpose. And that’s a serious violation of the UCMJ which you are all familiar with.”
Crozier, of course, did the right thing for his sailors.
eric
The best part is the audio right after he says naive or stupid, you can hear “what the fuck?”
Geoboy
Well, Modly is an ignorant asshole, so he’s the prototypical Trump pick.
Frankensteinbeck
People were asking in previous threads how the enlisted (not the ones on his ship, in general) feel about actions like Crozier’s, and about the retaliation against him. You would have a good idea, I guess, Cole?
Cheryl Rofer
David Ignatius said that Trump told Modly to fire Crozier. There are quotes earlier from Modly saying that there would be a proper investigation, and then, suddenly, boom, he fired him. Probably Trump also told Modly to get those troops (is that what you call them in the navy?) in line after the videos of their farewell to Crozier surfaced. And probably Modly is enough of an apparatchik to believe he could do that.
Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)
I do not envy the poor soul in the TR who’s in charge of re-enlistments. There might be a problem making quota this quarter.
We watched Zombie Trump last night, reverting to form and peddling snake oil. His “briefings” are turning into a new take on “Downfall.” How long before he tells us Army Group Steiner is on the way to save us?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Way to rally the troops dumbass, Secretary Moldy. I mean even a horses south end like Cato the Censor knew better.
MattF
@Geoboy: And, one may assume, was chosen for his current job because he’s an ignorant asshole. Chain of command, and all that.
Cheryl Rofer
Nice thread
Enhanced Voting Techniques
WTF
Is this guy a character from 1984?
Baud
This guy agrees with you.
MattF
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: “However, you must love our Big Orange Brother.”
Brachiator
Trump is fucking up in all the ways it is possible to fuck up. It is wild to watch the right wing propaganda machine scramble to justify their Dear Leader’s dumbass decisions.
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I assumed the cheers were a reflection of respect, not love.
kindness
It’s my understanding that most of the enlisted & uniformed military is Republican or Republican leaning. I have to wonder how Trump has changed that? From what we see it appears they are drumming everyone out who isn’t willing to kiss Trump’s grits.
Bruuuuce
Jim Wright has, as usual, been on top of this story from the beginning. Here’s today’s analysis, skewering — no, disintegrating — the unqualified Acting Secretary.
Baud
It’s hard to believe that the same Trump who disrespected the Khan family and John McCain in 2016 would disrespect the military like this.
raven
Pogue Colonel : Marine, what is that button on your body armor?Private Joker : A peace symbol, sir.Pogue Colonel : Where’d you get it?Private Joker : I don’t remember, sir.
Pogue Colonel : What is that you’ve got written on your helmet?
Private Joker : “Born to Kill”, sir.
Pogue Colonel : You write “Born to Kill” on your helmet and you wear a peace button. What’s that supposed to be, some kind of sick joke?
Private Joker : No, sir.
Pogue Colonel : You’d better get your head and your ass wired together, or I will take a giant shit on you.
Private Joker : Yes, sir.
Pogue Colonel : Now answer my question or you’ll be standing tall before the man.
Private Joker : I think I was trying to suggest something about the duality of man, sir.
Pogue Colonel : The what?
Private Joker : The duality of man. The Jungian thing, sir.
Pogue Colonel : Whose side are you on, son?
Private Joker : Our side, sir.
Pogue Colonel : Don’t you love your country?
Private Joker : Yes, sir.
Pogue Colonel : Then how about getting with the program? Why don’t you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?
Private Joker : Yes, sir.
Pogue Colonel : Son, all I’ve ever asked of my marines is that they obey my orders as they would the word of God. We are here to help the Vietnamese, because inside every gook there is an American trying to get out. It’s a hardball world, son. We’ve gotta keep our heads until this peace craze blows over.
Private Joker : Aye-aye, sir.
Litlebritdifrnt
Keel Haul the motherf*cker. What in god’s name was the purpose of him going to make a speech to the crew anyway? Then, to then use said speech to a heartbroken crew who had just lost their beloved Captain, to trash said Captain is beyond belief, it is beyond evil and cruel it is deranged. As Mike Barnicle said on twitter this twat went to Annapolis and obviously didn’t absorb a single thing that he was taught there. He needs to be fired, and then keel hauled.
Ella in New Mexico
Acting-AKA-Pretending Navy Secretary Modly needs to be fired immediately. Lets see if Esper has even the one frigging testicle necessary to push for it.
MattF
Also, ‘captain of an aircraft carrier’ is not a job that one gets merely as a by-the-way. Crozier was tested and vetted over many years by his superiors– so all the flag-rank officers who judged him capable of his former job are going to be holding their breath, waiting for the second round of consequences.
RepubAnon
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: He sounds like the character Neidermeyer from Animal House.
Sloane Ranger
I just came over to say that I had heard this on the news.
Unbelievable! If there’s any serving sailor of any rank who still thinks Trump is on their side, they are too delusional to be on active duty.
Did your SecNav really think this would play well with the TR’s crew or did he not care? He will need an armed escort to get out alive.
RepubAnon
@Litlebritdifrnt: Keel-hauled from bow to stern – hopefully on a hull covered in barnacles.
JPL
@Baud: Yeah… who woulda thought.
West of the Rockies
Frank Burns said it best: We can only know true freedom by blindly following our leaders.
dmsilev
Well, I’m convinced. Also, as quoted upthread, Joe Biden called his actions “close to criminal” and that distinction is important. So, Mr. Modly is a liar as well as a knave.
West of the Cascades
@Baud: That guy seems pretty smart.
Baud
@dmsilev: Best endorsement Biden could ever get.
ETA: I assume Modley will now retire so he can lead the “Lock Him Up” chants at the 2020 RNC.
Litlebritdifrnt
@RepubAnon: I’m a big fan of the old fashioned punishments where warranted :)
The Thin Black Duke
Modly is the officer who would have a grenade tossed into his tent in the middle of the night, I bet.
MattF
@Litlebritdifrnt: Ever heard of John Byng?
Steeplejack (phone)
@Cheryl Rofer:
Excellent point about “‘prophylactic cowardice,’ wherein everyone is so afraid of the boss that normal systems grind to a halt.”
Baud
@Sloane Ranger:
We shall call them “Patriot Sailors.”
laura
Some War President we’re saddled with…. some Commander in Chief right there. Real leadership and sacrifice. Also, Stars and Stripes and savings…
James E Powell
@raven:
One of my favorite scenes of all time.
Litlebritdifrnt
@The Thin Black Duke: Yup.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@RepubAnon: Yes, it’s mind boggling someone gave a speech so absurd. It almost feels like some staffer who secretly loathes the Secretary wrote it for him to get the guy to pants himself in public.
laura
@Baud: and they shall know him as “Sir.”
jonas
Are enlisted folks and vets noticing the way Trump treats the military? Can you imagine if, after sacking Stanley McChrystal, Obama’s Army Sec had gone over to Afghanistan and delivered a screed to troops who were upset about seeing McCrystal go telling them to STFU? JFC, the mind reels.
And, by the way, where *are* all the people who were calling McCrystal’s firing the worst crime in history, and evidence of Obama’s runaway ego and disregard for national security and the interests of the troops? Do I need to ask?
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Boris Rasputin (the evil twin): Keep in mind that the recruiting offices are also closed so the recruiters only have phone calls and email/online chat to try to drum up more recruits. Add that to the fact that boot camp is a COVID-19 disaster waiting to happen and the next year should be interesting for future enlistments. Often-times you enlist for a particular type of job/skill and you may sign up but be waiting at home for your assigned slot in that school/class (delayed entry program is the technical term) A lot of people are not going to be willing to sign up when they don’t know what’s going to be happening to their family in 1 or 3 or 6 months. Should be interesting what happens to recruiting numbers in the next year.
Recruiting struggles
Betty
@Baud: Why not both?
NotMax
Welcome to the Uproaring Twenties.
;)
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@dmsilev: Moldy is whining here about how rough this has been to a crew who are terrified the Virus Grim Reaper is about to literally decimate them. Trump find this guy on 4/chan or something?
Baud
God, I hope Crozier doesn’t come out as a Trumpster.
cain
@Sloane Ranger:
Imagine how worse it would be if the carrier was named John McCain.
Elizabelle
Trump is the Vector in Chief, for all bad things, and Modly snivels. He’s already been passed over to be Senate-confirmed SecNavy, so I don’t know what was in it for him.
James Fallows has been covering this with two recent blogposts — his blog at The Atlantic is not behind a paywall. (And thank you, Jim, for that.)
He published 3 letters from readers today.
First says husband serves on the carrier, and family would like to be in touch with Crozier to thank him. Also that Navy has known about presence of coronavirus way longer than they’re letting on.
Captain Crozier risked his career and did what he thought was best to get the resources they needed. The acting SEC NAV, who amounts to a little more than a modern day mercenary (you know, on account of forgoing his national service for profit in the private sector), railroaded CAPT Crozier and it’s an absolute disgrace.
Second is from a Jr. officer who was disillusioned and got out after 5 years. He was pleasantly surprised by Crozier.
Then I remembered—while careerists don’t always stick out their necks, they are generally good people. They generally have the same visions and ideals as every other officer. They just have a different sense of when to push the line to make their commanders uncomfortable. And so nearly every officer I’ve met would undoubtedly do anything they can to save the lives of their troops.
I think most military members dream that such decisions happen in moments of action. Hardly any dream of making the right call by leaking a memorandum to the press. And yet Capt Crozier recognized his moment, and did the right thing.
So from this jaded veteran—kudos to Capt Crozier. And here’s to recognizing that despite the way he’s being treated by the Navy—he is a remarkable credit to that organization, because he is a product of that organization.
Last:
What was the Secretary thinking? He must be out of his mind. Any ship Captain who is that concerned about his or her crew, which ultimately affects the ship’s mission should get the Navy Cross, not be fired.
Any CO that is willing to risk his or her career for the health of their crew is a hero in my book.
… This firing reminds me of the Chinese government’s reaction to the young Doctor in Wuhan who tried to warn his country and the world about the COVID-19 virus.
So: a cowardly and awful action is going about as well as most of the horrible shit we have seen from Trump and the cowards in his administration.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: It is astounding that anyone with a brain would have given THAT speech to the same crew who gave a hero’s send off to Captain Crozier. How dumb is this guy that he thought that would do anything but go over like a lead balloon. And if they try to go after the people who put the video of Capt.Crozier departing, out in the world, it’s going to be shooting themselves in their own knees.
raven
Need a break, watch this brother listen to Free Bird for the fist time!
Another Scott
@Bruuuuce: Excellent.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
cain
@Baud:
I dunno.. I’ve met people who could do these things but also believe in morons like Trump. It’s kind of crazy. The human brain, man.. a mysterious organ of unfathomable depths and nuance.
Mary G
@Bruuuuce: I loved this comment by one of his readers:
Another nomination for rotating tag line though I suppose the f-word is disqualifying.
Brachiator
@MattF:
And Byng’s story inspired a section of Voltaire’s Candide.
It is telling that many people sought to spare Byng, but a stubborn George II would not relent.
James E Powell
@Steeplejack (phone):
That’s what makes the comparisons to Chernobyl so apt.
Everyone in the federal government, everyone in a state government that needs federal resources, and everyone in the press/media who wants access. All of them, before saying or doing anything, have to ask themselves, “Will this annoy Trump?”
The really scary part is that’s what ~42% of Americans want them to do.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Fucking yikes. This doesn’t sound healthy at all to civilian (as in citizens/voters) control of the military
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
If he was, hopefully he isn’t any longer, considering Trump fucked over his Naval career because he wanted to save the lives of those under his command….
cain
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
This speech is a lot like how evangelicals and folks like Rush Limbaugh coach their messaging to their followers. Always in apocalyptic terms.
They use conservatives love of their institutions to destroy the very institutions themselves, to be used for grift.
Elizabelle
From John’s Task and Purpose link:
This Acting Sec is embarrassing himself and the media all on his lonesome. With his loathesome Vector in Chief.
If you can be that “embarrassed” by an action that is accurately reported in the press, maybe that should be a clue.
cmorenc
My bet is that the “leak” to the SF Chronicle will at some eventually be revealed as a deliberate ratfuck operation by a Trump toadies within the Naval hierarchy who was on the distribution list.
Elizabelle
Modly:
And he and his family are victims, victims, I tell you. Can this jackass. Although who else wants to be the second Acting Acting SecNavy, to a commander as evil and cowardly as Trump?
jackmac
It’s always projection with these Trumpsters.
Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly is today’s Exhibit A: “If he didn’t think, in my opinion, that this information wasn’t going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive, or too stupid.”
Elizabelle
@cmorenc: That’s even better, because it blew up badly on Trump and the Acting SecNavy.
And you know the sailors and families of the Roosevelt are watching this very carefully, as are most of the rest of the Navy.
Omnes Omnibus
I said when this originally happened that Crozier knew that he would be relieved of command due to his actions. He made a decision that his sailors’ safety was worth it. I commend him for it. He did the right thing as he saw it.
The administration should have let it rest there. I bet that flag officers are gnashing their teeth over the stupidity of Modley. Everyone in the military knows that sometimes stupid shit happens for admin reasons and a good guy gets fucked over in some way. Simple fact of military life. This speech is beyond stupid. Getting fucked over happens; having some shitbird from the Pentagon fuck over someone and then trash talk him is just not done. Morale on that ship is gone.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
From the same speech:
He denies he did anything wrong and has the gall to portray himself as some kind of victim? Even if he was getting threats, why should anybody believe him unless he has evidence? He’s proven himself to be a Trump lickspittle who lies. I don’t condone threats against this man’s family, but towards him? Boo-fucking-who. He put people’s lives in danger for literally no reason but to keep his worthless fucking job
Mary G
OMG:
I wonder how this doofuss is able to breathe on his own. Also, too, the massive amount of publicity Modly has generated for himself with this dickhead move is itself going to get him crosswise with the president, who requires “all eyes must be on ME.”
NotMax
@Elizabelle
Based on recent practice, Dolt 45 will tap some college student wiling to do it for extra credit.
//
MattF
@Mary G: Well, Modly did lie about Biden’s reaction, so Trump will give him credit for that.
Elizabelle
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): You and I are channeling each other here.
Mike in NC
Modly ought to be keelhauled for being such a Trumpian asshole.
West of the Rockies
@Elizabelle:
Thank you for that material. Several times people have asked about what military personnel think of events. You’ve supplied something of an answer.
lee
I’m subscribed to the USMC subreddit (prior service).
For quite a while after his election the sub was about 50/50 pro/anti Trump. Most of the time it was civil.
Recently it is almost all anti-trump. Even some of the most vocal of his supporters on the sub have turned against him and even more most of the sub is turning against the GOP in general. The reason is because the GOP in general is absolutely not standing up to him and defending what is right.
FWIW (very little) one of the comments about this event is ‘This is how revolutions happen’.
Elizabelle
From another item in Task and Purpose:
A sailor who is kinda sympathetic to the spot Crozier put Modly in, but …
Modly is a class act, just like the Vector in Chief he serves.
pamelabrown53
By the time Trump leaves office (hopefully in January), all our institutions will be in varying degrees of decimation.
One of the most rage-inducing behavior of Trump and his minions is how they make horrific decisions then constantly whine and play the victims. Beyond revolting.
feebog
You know, if I was Joe Biden, I think I would go beyond my remarks on Sunday and announce a full blown investigation once elected. And promise reinstatement if the investigation proves Crozier went through his chain of command first with no response.
Elizabelle
@West of the Rockies: You will enjoy checking out James Fallows. He puts up a lot of good stuff, and I love that he shares what he is hearing from his readers.
joel hanes
What Modly is providing is not “leadership”.
It is courtierism.
When your boss demands “respect”, give him integrity instead.
When your boss demands integrity, give him your respect.
Trump cannot tolerate integrity in subordinates, and when he cannot browbeat it out of them, he forces them out or fires them in the most cowardly possible way. e.g. Sally Yates, Marie Yovanovich, Michael Atkinson
And the concept of “honor”, as used in the military, is as far beyond Trump’s comprehension as is spherical trigonometry.
Aleta
Admirable headline:
“in leaked speech to ship’s crew” + “Acting Navy Secretary blasts … captain”
[for leaking] [with not a shred of proof]
“If he didn’t think, in my opinion, that this information wasn’t going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive, or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this,” Modly told the Theodore Roosevelt’s crew on April 5. “The alternative is that he did this on purpose.”
Also, “He waved me off.” Sure.
Lies all the way through. Probably sent the transcript over to the press beforehand.
He warned sailors that under no circumstances should they talk to the media, saying all journalists are biased and they will use any information to embarrass the Navy and “to embarrass you.”
“Imagine if every other CO also believed the media was a proper channel to air grievances.”
Yeah imagine that.
“Not long after that, we would no longer have a country.”
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Another Task and Purpose article about the crew’s reaction:
Moldy issued a statement today in response:
He stands by every word. Oh but he said sorry for swearing!
And of course, there was one moron who defended him, sounding like some low-info voter:
Unhinged rants by top brass are apparently a-ok with this swabby
Mallard Filmore
“You have been volunteered for a suicide mission … so stop complaining.”
H.E.Wolf
I appreciated your spelling choice! I am absolutely certain that some lowlife or other is already wiling to do it. :)
Meanwile the rest of us are wiling away the days, using all our whiles to figure out how to help ourselves and each other through this bewhildering time.
It’ll be a longish wile, but our whiles whill eventually whin out.
(We now return to regular orthography.)
Brachiator
@Omnes Omnibus:
You nailed it. Trump does not know how to let things rest. He lacks an essential understanding and empathy for anyone other than himself.
And what makes it worse is that even if his subordinates know better, they must please Trump, not consider, counsel or do the right thing.
Another Scott
@Omnes Omnibus:
NavyTimes:
(Emphasis added.)
“… poor, poor, pitiful me. Poor, poor pitiful me…”
Grr…
Cheers,
Scott.
pamelabrown53
@feebog:
Don’t know whether or not I agree with your advice to Biden on announcing a full blown investigation (if elected).
On one hand, we have the norm of “one president at a time” but on the other, Trump (and minions) keep breaking our norms and traditions on a daily basis. Sometimes multiple trashings in a single day.
Maybe, I’m just reacting too fearfully because while the media normalizes all this devastation, democrats are held to old standard.
Ruckus
@Geoboy:
Where we are.
I read that as he’s the typical trump prick.
Funny how it works either way.
Gin & Tonic
@Elizabelle: In the earlier reporting I didn’t get that Modly flew all the way out to Guam to deliver this rant.
What a colossal dick.
cain
@lee:
Once they make that mental break, they break hard. It’s also followed up with all new friends because they would turn into an apostate to their current circle of Trumpers.
A lot of what makes people stay Trumpers is that their support system are all Trumpers and to turn against it is to turn against that support network and that’s hard hard thing to do.
Elizabelle
More James Fallows. I tell you, he is balm for the soul. On Trump and Queeg: A Followup (and doesn’t every leader love a headline like that??)
Fallows: Three days ago I argued that if Donald Trump were in any consequential job other than the one he now occupies—surgeon, military commander, head of a private organization or public company, airline pilot—he would already have been removed. A sampling of reader response:
Another:
Last:
Elizabelle: I personally disagree with that last reader. Trump might rise to the top, but he would not long stay there because he cannot manage even a modicum of behavior expected of CEOs. It is no accident that Trump stayed within his own privately held company his entire career, and never had to resign from any corporate boards to assume the presidency — he was not on any, because they realized how worthless his advice is. He is an entertainment and media creation, wholly.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Another Scott:
“…this perception that the Navy’s not on the job, that the government’s not on the job, and it’s just not true.”
Neither the Navy nor the government are on the job, you monied fucknut.
Ruckus
@Frankensteinbeck:
That is actual leadership. Most people in the military know how it works, some lead, most follow.
Bad leadership gets people killed.
Shitty leadership gets lots of people killed.
trumptastic leadership gets a metric fuck ton of people killed.
(A metric fuck ton is 10% larger than a fuck ton. Which is way, way too many)
Faux News
@Geoboy: I was not surprised by the action of the acting secretary. Another Right Wing Azzhole that made morale go down.
Another Scott
TheHill:
(Emphasis added.)
Heh. Hoist on his own petard?
Norfolk has a huge Navy presence, so of course Virginia’s senators are on top of this. They won’t let it go, either.
Cheers,
Scott.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Mike in NC: Come sit by me.
Kent
So….let me get this straight. While talking to the media, Modly advised sailors not to talk to the media? Is that one of those “IOKIYR” things?
pamelabrown53
@Elizabelle:
You are en fuego. Gracias!
cain
@Kent:
Well, it’s okay because he’s on top of the chain of command :-) So he can talk to whoever he wants. Besides, his remarks are for an audience of one.
eemom
Strictly from a military standpoint, did Crozier act properly or not?
I can’t seem to find a straight answer to this anywhere. Maybe there isn’t one? I know less than nothing about anything military, but I did think the rules were pretty clear.
Elizabelle
I wonder what Modly has done to his own chances of buckraking on corporate boards in the future?
He’s Mr. Unsuitable for Duty. Seen as a mercenary and clown (and courtier).
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Elizabelle: Trump tried to rise to the top of a large corporation and failed. His whole persona of a successful business man and not a failed real estate agent is something that was created for The Apprentice.
Nora
@Elizabelle: Is being a courtier and a clown disqualifying for boards in corporate America?
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
Reality makes the Trump administration actions look more and more stupid, heartless, mean-spirited.
lofgren
There is of course a decent chance that any written communication, especially involving something salacious like betrayal of the troops, will end up leaked to the media in our modern age. There are two possible solutions:
1. Don’t write anything down. This would leave the government unable to function, as, for example, the captains of aircraft carriers whose ship was being ravaged by disease would have no mechanism for submitting a formal request for help.
Or
2. Don’t betray the troops.
Elizabelle
@Nora: We shall find out.
And so many of us are unemployed, we have the time to watch them very closely.
trollhattan
Well, well, well, it’s taken three or four churns but Trump finally has himself competely surrounded by mini-me ass-lickers, just as he’s always wanted. [Waves to Kellyanne: hey girl, you made it!] That they’re almost all interim appointments free from senate confirmation is a feature/bug thing He, Trump is happy to live with.
I hope we all make it to January 2021. I have my doubts.
Adam L Silverman
At the link is the guidance that the Vice Chief of Naval Operations pushed out two days before the Acting SecNav relieved CAPT Crozier
https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=112518
I’ve highlighted with bold and italics the most relevant part:
James E Powell
@feebog:
I think Joe Biden is better off letting other people talk about this. He is going to be commander in chief.
Cameron
That speech wasn’t addressed to the ship’s crew. It was for an audience of one, back in Washington.
ETA: see that I’m a day late/dollar short.
WaterGirl
@Brachiator: How many of those tested might have tested negative a few days ago, but now have the virus?
Have they all forgotten the exponential nature of the spread?
germy
Barbara
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
You are SUPPOSED to be treated like shit and like it you idiot proles. Whoever told you different?
Uncle Cosmo
Oddly and Trumpolini probably think they’re safe from a remake of the Aurora on the Neva because the Potomac is too shallow for a capital ship (let alone the TR) to get within gunnery range of the Pentagon or White House. Hey shitheads, it’s an aircraft carrier. With long-range airplanes. And precision guided munitions.
Tl;dr version: History doesn’t repeat, but the rhyming dictionary is open…
trollhattan
Wonder what the takeaway for China, Russia, et al is, from this real-world example of taking one of the world’s most powerful warships out of service sans combat?
Gin & Tonic
@eemom: I’ve mentioned in other threads, a friend of my wife’s is USN-retired, was CO of a significant vessel. He’s an out-and-proud anti-Trumper, but based on the information that has come out so far, he thinks Crozier shit the bed here. Apparently Crozier’s superior was also berthed on the TR, and was blindsided by the letter. If those are true facts, that’s not a good position for Crozier.
But as OO has said, Crozier had to know he was flushing his career.
Elizabelle
I wonder if we can start a pool on how long until Modly gets forced to walk the plank. He will not be striding down the gangplank, to the applause of those he led.
WaPost story: Acting Navy secretary says ousted captain leaked concerns to media, or was ‘too naive or too stupid to command a ship’
trollhattan
@Barbara:
That will make for great marketing when folks come up for re-enlistment.
James E Powell
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Yesterday John Harwood at CNN had an article with headline “Trump’s coronavirus mismanagement again undercuts his CEO image.” Nowhere in the article was it acknowledged that Trump’s CEO image was always a total fabrication promoted by, among others, CNN.
germy
Did Modly know his “pep talk” was being taped?
Elizabelle
@Cameron:
I loved this part of the WaPost story:
What is that, about 4,000 people? Yeah, right.
germy
Subsole
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Wrong cinematic universe.
Neidermeyer was Animal House, not Orwell.
trollhattan
@Elizabelle:
Now would be a good time to swap that ladder for a pillory.
Elizabelle
@pamelabrown53: You must develop a James Fallows habit. He is a good antidote to all the gaslighting forced upon us.
https://www.theatlantic.com/author/james-fallows/
Brachiator
@Elizabelle:
Oh shit. Now somebody’s going to have to apologize to teenage girls, too.
Cheryl Rofer
I don’t think I would have tried to walk the remarks back this way, but okay I guess.
Barbara
@germy: You really would have to be stupid not to realize that it would be taped. They have smart phones in the navy.
Elizabelle
@trollhattan: I’d forgotten what a pillory was. LOL.
I’m good with the “imprisoned” part. Modly has already exposed his own damn ass to “public abuse.”
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: The Chief of Naval Operations has instituted a command climate survey, assessment, and report on command climate in the task force. Basically he wants to know what, if any, issues there were between the 1 star commanding the overall task force from The Roosevelt and the Commander of The Roosevelt. He wouldn’t have done it if he didn’t have an inkling that there was a problem there.
trollhattan
@Elizabelle:
My dad was on a CV during a shooting war and I’m betting the crews then and now aren’t much different. (So many stories.) If that moron thinks he can say “Now just between you and me” and be taken seriously, please bid early and often on my ebay bridge listing.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Here’s the entire four page transcript that Task & Purpose posted to Scribd:
455234876-Acting-Navy-Secretary-Thomas-Modly-comments-to-USS-Theodore-Roosevelt-crew
Elizabelle
@Cheryl Rofer: He’s apologizing for the profane language, but not for the obscene message he imparted.
And take it away again, previously sympathetic crewman on the Roosevelt:
Modly is not being called out for his “swear words” although maybe he is stupid enough to think we are stupid enough to think that.
Mandalay
Both Navy Secretary Thomas Modly and Chief of Naval Operations Michael Gilday have done a complete u-turn on their earlier public statements which supported Crozier. Trump must have told them both that if they didn’t fire Crozier, and publicly attack him, then their careers were over.
From April 1, just five days ago:
trollhattan
@Elizabelle:
Trumpian misdirection. Which Kubler-Ross stage is this, again? I forget.
spc123
@Cheryl Rofer: of course. Crozier knew what he was doing and knew there had to be consequences even though it was the right thing to do in an emergency. But he shouldn’t have been in that position in the first place and naturally the aftermath has been handled as deftly as one has come to expect from these cretins.
Kent
Actually, no. Let’s not denigrate teenage girls. I have two teenage girls. They both have MUCH more maturity and know better how to treat people than Modly.
Another Scott
@Elizabelle: Modly is eventually going to be out. Donnie nominated Kenneth Braithwaite to become the next Secretary of the Navy.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah, noticed that.
Also wondering if they will look anew at the decision to allow the sailors to visit Vietnam in early March, which only had a few COVID cases, miles away. (Yeah, right.)
Know the visit was a huge deal, but it looks terrible in retrospect, and has pretty much put a major carrier out of service (with the whole world knowing about that).
SFAW
Earlier today, someone at TPM speculated that, because Modly used the word “betray” (or “betrayal,” maybe) in his unhinged rant, he might have been setting the stage for Crozier’s court martial. [Supposedly because betrayal of the service justifies/requires a court martial.]
I know next-to-nothing about the UCMJ, so I have no idea if that speculation was reasonable, or just hyperbole. On the other hand, given the evil that is rampant in the maladministration, doing something that vile would not surprise me.
Elizabelle
@Kent: Yeah, I did not like the “teenage girls” part either. I put in the [Hey!]
I think Amber will get some backlash over that part of her tweet.
Barbara
@Cheryl Rofer: If spoken from the heart then his heart is rather self-centered and hard. I mean, the bottom line is that he is embarrassed because he looks bad. From the Facebook link from James Wright someone shared above:
SFAW
@James E Powell:
I also noticed that. Strange how that eliding happened.
Elizabelle
@Mandalay: That’s terrible. Because you could see Gilday’s possible support in the earlier stories.
Hell of a time for Trump and his morons to be blowing this up, now. Not enough going on with a pandemic that will kill thousands this week and rampant unemployment.
Time for the Navy command to show some courage.
Another Scott
TheHill:
As I said above, the Navy is a huge deal in Virginia because of Norfolk (and the Pentagon and a whole lot more). Virginia senators and representatives are not going to let this go.
And rightly so.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
@trollhattan: Maybe the “hey, what I am I doing, lying out in the road like this?”
We know they’re very shabby “bargainers”, but excel in “denial.”
Subsole
@pamelabrown53: These people have a good hard schoolyard asskicking coming, with about 40-60 years’ interest.
Adam L Silverman
@Mandalay: It wasn’t Gilday, it was Modly. ADM Gilday was overruled by Modly and the decision making was taken from him on this by Modly, which is highly unusual as personnel decisions are almost always handled by the uniformed chain of command.
lee
@eemom: If he leaked his letter to the press, then ‘No’ as he went outside his chain of command to solve a problem.
If someone else leaked his letter to the press, then obviously he did act properly.
I think everyone assumes he was the person who leaked his letter as he was not getting traction from his chain of command and he wanted to save the lives of his crew.
If he did leak the letter what he did do was act morally. Which at times can be different than the appropriate military protocol.
Another Scott
BBC is reporting that BoJo is now in intensive care.
Cheers,
Scott.
scav
But, when we see the ratings for this event and will the Orange One brag about the viewing figures or throw his Modly toy out of the pram for upstaging him?
Adam L Silverman
@Elizabelle: The other carrier in the Asia-Pacific area of responsibility is also headed to, if it hasn’t already reached, home port because of the outbreak so it can quarantine infected Sailors and disinfect the ship. Right now we have limited Naval force projection in the Asia-Pacific reason.
...now I try to be amused
@trollhattan:
The Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov was taken out of service by mechanical breakdown. COVID-19 is just one more threat to every navy’s readiness.
WaterGirl
@Elizabelle: Yeah. Crozier thought they should be taken off the ship before most of the servicemen would get sick and possibly die.
The top brass appear to have been taking their sweet time. Sometimes you don’t have the luxury of fucking time, you have to act.
WaterGirl
Today is a bad day to be following the news.
susanna
@raven: Love this guy!
Subsole
@Adam L Silverman:
1. Wow.
2. So am I correct in assuming that boat is pretty much mission-killed?
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
Oh, shit. Last night, I was listening to BBC political reporters downplay Johnson going to the hospital. They even talked about how he had inadvertently upstaged the Queen’s televised speech to the nation.
I was thinking that they should just have avoided any speculation, since it seemed to me that his being admitted to the hospital had to be serious, even if only so that they could more closely observe him.
A number of people had noted that he looked significantly unwell in some public appearances, and seemed to be struggling to catch his breath.
Kent
B I G fucking deal. My wife (a physician) says once he is on a ventilator, the chances are good he won’t come out. The man does not look particularly healthy to begin with.
Dorothy A. Winsor
In terms of leadership crisis, Boris Johnson has been taken to the ICU.
MattF
@Another Scott: Guardian too.
SiubhanDuinne
MSNBC is reporting that BoJo has been moved to intensive care.
I don’t like him, but I sure wouldn’t have wished this on him. I hope he recovers so I can hate on him with a clear conscience.
CaseyL
@Another Scott: I’m honestly amazed and puzzled none of the T* Admin is in similar condition. WH medicos must be pumping everyone full of some drug or other.
nasruddin
@kindness: They totally love it. They are in the cult, mostly.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Kent:
The numbers I’ve seen are that only about 20% of those on ventilators survive.
Ruckus
@Baud:
I doubt there is any current or future possibility of that, even if there was a few days ago. Man is not an idiot, like everyone in trump’s circle of doom.
NotMax
@trollhattan
Frantic tap dancing.
;)
Mandalay
@Adam L Silverman:
That’s a distinction without a difference. Gilday backed Modly’s decision despite favoring an investigation, and previously publicly supporting Crozier:
Gilday came to a fork in the road. He knew which path served his personal interests rather than his personal beliefs, and he took it. Fuck him.
MattF
@Kent: I’ve seen a survival rate of 20% quoted, once you’re on on a ventilator.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman:
Picture of Elliot Carver rubbing his hands with glee.
lee
@WaterGirl: So the question is did they fail to act quickly enough because of a general lack of civilian leadership or because that civilian leadership was telling them not to act as it would make their Lord & Savior look bad?
The military has plans for everything, I can’t imagine they don’t have one for ‘everyone gets sick on a carrier’
germy
@SiubhanDuinne: I worry about all the poor souls he shook hands with. Wasn’t he visiting a hospital when he did that?
NotMax
@WaterGirl
New rotating tag?
:)
trollhattan
@Brachiator:
Am no BoJo fan but this has to be deeply unsettling for the UK. Significant challenge to their entire chain of command.
Miss Bianca
@Another Scott: So, let me see if I’ve got this straight…
Modly doesn’t “regret” that he said swinish, stupid things to a bunch of sailors while dissing their captain, who threw away his career for them…
He “regrets” that he SWORE in front of…a bunch of sailors? While making it clear that he would be the *last* person in the world to sacrifice his career for them?
I am so glad my father, who served on the USS Andrew Jackson during WWII and always loved the Navy, didn’t live to see this. Altho’ *his* invective on the subject would have been highly profane and entertaining.
Adam L Silverman
@Subsole: The Roosevelt is out of service until it can be decontaminated and the crew can be put back on board. There are COVID-19 infected Sailors on The Ronald Reagan, the other Asia-Pacific AOR assigned carrier. My guess is that both are going to be out of action until they can be disinfected and the crew put back on board. We just put a second carrier group in the CENTCOM AOR because the President wants to show Iran we’re serious. My guess is they’ll quickly transit one of those two carrier groups into the PACOM AOR to cover the shortfall.
WaterGirl
@NotMax: Good idea. I just added it to the nominations list.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
Wow. I never saw that movie but now I think I have to.
WaterGirl
@Miss Bianca: Maybe someone told him he should apologize, and all he could bring himself to apologize for was the swearing, which everyone knows was not a big deal.
Maybe it’s the equivalent of the job interview question where you are asked what your biggest fault is.
And your answer is something like “I work too hard.”
Adam L Silverman
@Mandalay: I hadn’t seen that subsequent WaPo reporting. I sit corrected.
Mandalay
@SiubhanDuinne:
Likewise. But unlike some, BoJo really went looking for trouble, and he found it:
What to do when your Prime Minister exhibits that level of recklessness, irresponsibility and raw stupidity?
Yutsano
OT:BoJo just got moved to ICU.
The Thin Black Duke
If Crozier didn’t do what he did, most of the crew on that ship would have died because it was more important to his superiors that Donnie didn’t get embarrassed. Crozier made the decision to sacrifice his career because he refused to see the men and women serving under his command as collateral damage. Crozier chose not to be a monster, unlike the other creatures in this administration.
cain
@SiubhanDuinne:
It would be some serious irony though if he died due to the virus – given his ambitions to be PM and that he finally got it only to become a victim of this cursed virus.
I don’t like the man, his ambitions, or his politics – but it would be chaos for the UK if he were to die so I’m hoping for the sake of the country that he recovers.
Chyron HR
@Another Scott:
Sadly, it’s not possible to cling to a virus’s boots and whine, “But I’m on YOUR side!”
Brachiator
@cain:
I hope that Johnson recovers, but has to step down. It will be chaos for the UK if he continues in office.
Miss Bianca
@SiubhanDuinne: What oft was thought, but ne’er so well expressed…
FWIW, I agree with you wholeheartedly, but since I am a bad animal I can’t help but think it would be some sort of cosmic justice if BoJo ended up paying the ultimate price for presiding over an administration that thought allowing COVID-19 to run rampant throughout Britain was somehow an excellent public health strategy.
Mandalay
@cain:
Why? He’s a fucking idiot, a massive liar and a complete fraud. He chose to publicly brag about shaking hands with hospitalized victims of coronavirus, FFS.
I truly don’t wish him any personal harm, but I’m pretty sure that the UK would be better off if he died. The Conservatives have a solid majority so the government is stable, and anyone would be an improvement on Johnson.
trollhattan
@SiubhanDuinne:
Excellent movie (it’s Kubrick, so, you know) but not an easy one to watch so be in a…whatever the opposite of vulnerable mood before viewing. Invulnerable mood? You will never see D’Onofrio again without thinking of this role.
CaseyL
@Mandalay: Dom Cummings is Johnson’s proxy, and by all accounts no improvement whatsoever.
ETA: My bad: not Cummings, but Dominic Raab.
cain
@Mandalay:
That may be, but it is still going to be a mess if he dies. The devil we know rather than whatever unknown is going to take his place. In any case, if he recovers he will hopefully take the experience to heart and use his second chance at life appropriately.
PaulWartenberg
@germy:
in this day and age you have to expect someone with a smartphone is recording everything.
You better be able to say in private what you need to say in public.
PaulWartenberg
@cain:
Part of me remembers – it was barely a month ago – that the British response to the COVID-19 crisis was to let it spread and “build a herd immunity” to the disease. And then three days later their scientists and pandemic experts all came back with a report that said “YOU CRAZY IT’S GOING TO KILL MILLIONS OF PEOPLE” and then the Tories agreed to a Stay At Home policy.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/coronavirus-pandemic-herd-immunity-uk-boris-johnson/608065/
There is irony to this now.
I will feel some level of sympathy for him if Boris succumbs to the COVID, but I feel a hundred times more sympathy for the regular citizens of the United Kingdom dying already because Boris failed to act in time.
eemom
@Miss Bianca:
I am an even worse animal because I’ll be fucking green with envy.
Uncle Cosmo
Hyperbole much?
This is pure, unadulterated horseshit. Most every one on the TR probably would have caught COVID-19, but atality rate for a cohort with an age distribution equivalent to its crew is under 5%. Maybe under 2%.
Sheesh.
Mike in NC
@Mandalay:
Not a US citizen, so he can’t run for president as a Republican.
Uncle Cosmo
Niggle Falange holding for you on the blindingly white courtesy phone…
Ryan
@eric: Man, you don’t have to strain to hear it or anything! Roughly 1:45 mark.
Searcher
@Elizabelle: I’m not sure I’ve ever heard any male CEO besides Eddie Lampert take the blame for the troubles of the corporation they oversee the way every female CEO does.
(Quick, name a CEO of Yahoo! besides Marissa Mayer.)
Brachiator
@PaulWartenberg:
Johnson was taking advice from his political advisor Dominic Cummings. This fool believed that his free market, libertarian ideology was superior to science and facts.
Adam L Silverman
@CaseyL: Cummings is BoJo’s equivalent to Stephen Miller. Cummings has also tested positive for COVID-19.
Ruckus
@Uncle Cosmo:
Not everyone on board is all that young. Also there are approx 5000 people on a carrier with flight staff on board. The medical crew can not handle that size of issue, and a naval ship really has no way of separating and treating the crew, even a carrier. The likelihood that the death rate is on the very high side is most likely the result. You are right that 100% is too high, but a lot higher level than a non ship percentage seems quite plausible.
JaneE
If you want to talk about stupidity, making those remarks in front of the crew who cheered their (former) captain off the ship pretty much takes the cake. For the current minute, anyway.
NotMax
@Searcher
ThresherK
Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly is another Trump appointee whose name I didn’t know a week ago* along with Surgeon General whats-his-name.
Gawd, they’re all so useless.
(*I can’t keep track of them. Can you blame me?)
ThresherK
@NotMax: Nutmegger here. I think my state has rid itself of Linda McMahon, professional candidate.
Also, Meg Whitman.
Not amazing what these women have in common.
SiubhanDuinne
@germy: Yeah, and his wife/fiancée/GF whatever is pregnant. Haven’t heard whether she’s shown symptoms or been tested.
LongHairedWeirdo
I mentioned in other threads that I wasn’t sure about the Crozier issue – that his having allowed the combat readiness of the Roosevelt to leak *might* have been cause to relieve him.
News is, Modly actually recommended against relieving him (based on the crazy circumstances), until he heard Trump wasn’t happy. And now, he’s doubling down, telling lies, and calling a man in an impossible situation “stupid” rather than, I don’t know, “having made a regrettable, albeit very noble, and human, mistake”.
For some reason, that offends me even more than his being relieved. Relieving him might have been a way to send a message, “never, ever, give out combat readiness information, even if we’re not at war”, but if that was the case, they’d want to emphasize that he did a good, noble, and extremely smart thing, but he by-golly needed to do it via proper channels.
Honest to goodness, now, I think this makes Crozier and Michael Schiavo blood brothers – people slandered by the GOP for trying to do the right thing. There’s one difference, of course: Crozier being slimed makes it far more likely that people will die needlessly.
LongHairedWeirdo
@eemom: Wow, you can have sex? With *colors*? And if so, how does that leave you feeling *envy*?
(Sorry – you said “f*cking green with envy” and I decided to put a mental comma after “green”.)
Still – maybe you could have Kermit change his tune?
Another Scott
@SiubhanDuinne: She was reported a week or more ago to be suffering from “COVID-19 Symptoms” and supposedly is doing better since then. Dunno if she was actually tested.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Subsole
@Adam L Silverman: Show Iran we’re serious?
Pardon my millennial ignorance, but HOW did the embassy crisis break these peoples’ brains this badly?
NotMax
@LongHairedWeirdo
I’m Not Easy, Being Green.
:)
way2blue
My understanding is that the captain DID follow UMC protocol earlier and was dismayed by the chain of command’s callous disregard for the health of his crew as COVID-19 spread through the ship. And in desperation, reached out to additional colleagues, in hopes additional pressure would push Trump’s peas-in-a-pod to safeguard his crew. Rather than cover their collective butts…
I wish Cap’t Crozier a rapid and full recovery. The imps, not so much. We can only guess at this point how many other Navy ships are in similar straits.
Subsole
@SiubhanDuinne: Great movie.
The bootcamp scenes are positively excruciating to watch, emotionally.
way2blue
@Cheryl Rofer: Sailors.
Subsole
@trollhattan: FMJ or Paths of Glory?
Jeffro
@germy: Here’s hoping the WH press corps follows the sailors’ example…
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Gin & Tonic: It’s s even worse than you think. The ship just lost her commanding officer so the Executive Officer has to run things until a new Captain is assigned. The XO has to oversee the continuing testing and evacuation of the crew. And in swoops the acting SecNav with all the ceremony that’s going to entail. I m a horrible person but I hope the SecNav gets COVID-19 from this little trip because he should have stayed home. Side note personal pet peeve but not all sailors are men and not everyone on this crew is male.
J R in WV
@EmbraceYourInnerCrone:
I’M sure Sec Nav got all the formalities, stone faced rigid honor guard standing at attention, not looking at the man they’re supposed to honor. Formality from the officers who’s command he has disrupted, but no respect whatsoever.
No one can disrespect someone while following standard protocol like the military can, and no doubt did in this case. That’s why there is protocol to follow with hated enemies. I’m not sure Sec Nav is aware of this, since he never served on a ship. But he should know, if he doesn’t.
I was an E-2 and I knew.
Jim Vandewalker
@Uncle Cosmo: The numbers appear to indicate that around 20% of those infected become intensive-care-level ill; this would mean about 850 of USSTR’s 4200-member crew.
Even a nuclear carrier doesn’t have that kind of sickbay capacity. And the death rate is 2%, if that’s for all infected, Crozier would have been looking at 85-90 dead.
CWZ
I am still surprised after all this time how incompetent so many of these suck-ups are in this Administration. Anyone with any leadership experience could have done this in a five minute, relatively somber speech. This is what you say (even if you don’t f’cking mean it!): 1) I understand this is a very difficult situation for everyone; 2) It is obvious your CO was putting your welfare front and center, and you are lucky to have served under him; 3) unfortunately, although I sympathize with his difficult situation, there were some issues that required me to make the very difficult decision to remove him from command; 4) this was not an easy decision but we decided it was best for the current situation; 5) you should be proud of your accomplishments and to have served under his command; 6) Keep up the great work and Go Navy.
Done. Five minutes, tops. Instead, he rambles on incoherently in an incredible display of a Cover My Ass temper tantrum.
I cannot imagine any time that this would have happened when I served in the 1980s. Incredible.
Geminid
@CWZ: Trump seems to bring out the worst in people. And the current Covid-19 crisis seems to bringing out the worst in him. His remarks about Captain Crozier Saturday evening were churlish and politically stupid, and totally unnecessary. I know people are irate at the unwillingness of media figures to denounce him, but I think most Americans can understand what they are seeing and judge correctly as to Trump’s unfitness without Maggie Haberman’s or Chuck Todd’s help. He has a hard core of unconditional supporters for sure, but they can’t get him elected. I believe the conditional supporters are defecting. We’ll see.
CWZ
@lee: The son of a coworker was finishing up training at Quantico a few months ago. My coworker went to visit his son and came back saying how much he and all his jarhead buddies hate Trump. I was surprised to hear it, and we don’t know why, but it’s definitely happening. My coworker is apolitical.
jonas
@Mallard Filmore: Who knew catching Covid-19 and dying without receiving the necessary care would turn out to be such a patriotic gesture?
jonas
@CWZ: I keep seeing anecdotes like this, yet his approval ratings climb. Don’t know what to make of that…
Art
IMHO concern over the chain-of-command violation has nothing to do with it. The captain simple made the mistake of telling the truth about how Trump, as CinC, thinks about and treats the military and how loyalty is, for Trump, a one-way street. The captain pointed out a problem that was needlessly risking the health, if not the lives, of the sailors under his command. This made Trump look bad and, truth or not, and lives on the line or not, nobody gets away with making Don the Con look bad.
The CoC thing is simply a ready excuse. If CofC was important there wouldn’t be a pardoned SEAL, and at lest one other, showing us at GOP meet ups.
As for the claim he gave away readiness issues that could by used by enemies, please. Eric Prince’s operations are funded by the Chinese and Trump has already handed the Russians everything they asked for, and more. Selling our military, and everything else of value, down the river for fun and profit is how the Trumps operate.
Eric Prince’s operations are funded by the Chinese:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rosalindadams/blackwater-erik-prince-frontier-services-group-iraq
Procopius
I’m retired Army, so I’m familiar with the UCMJ. I don’t think Thomas Modly is. In fact, although I strongly support civilian control if the military, I think Thomas Modly is to naive or too stupid to hold the position he was appointed to. Remember his name. He should not be accepted in polite company. In fact, he should not be allowed to cut his own meat.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@J R in WV: He apparently served 7years on active duty as a helo pilot so he should be aware, but he was probably one of those officers who never cared about anything except himself and looking good. My favorite officers were the LDOs/mustangs because they had seen things from the enlisted side first. My most interesting officer was an ROTC grad who had graduated from MIT with a degree in, I believe astrophysics. She was super, super smart and one of the nicest people I every met, but had zero real life experience. I retired as an E-6. I had neither the smarts, nor the ambition to make Chief and I while I was decent at being in charge of people, I don’t want to be in charge of anyone but me (and not even that some days)