Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

I conferred with the team and they all agree – still not tired of winning!

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Republicans can’t even be trusted with their own money.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / One Thing is Clear

One Thing is Clear

by | 147 Comments

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Looking at the remarks by Joe Biden that were released simultaneously with Bernie’s announcing he is leaving the race, one thing is pretty damned clear- Bernie and his staff FUCKING HATED Hillary Clinton. It’s been mentioned before that Biden and Sanders are friends and get along, and maybe the tire fire of the past three years has changed some minds, but this is far less acrimonious than the last time around.

Reader Interactions

147Comments

  2. 2.

    Quaker in a Basement

    We’ll need to give Sanders supporters a short while to grieve and wail. Go ahead, ya’ll.

  7. 7.

    Roger Moore

    The story I read was that Biden was one of the few people who treated Bernie like a big shot when he first came to Washington, and Bernie has always had a soft spot for him ever since.  It’s basically the whole reason Biden won the nomination in the first place: he spent his career trying to work with people and build coalitions to get stuff done.  Yes, it meant he compromised and wasn’t as pure as Bernie, but when push came to shove he had a lot more people on his side.

  11. 11.

    trollhattan

    Bernie needs to toddle off, take care of his heart and general health, and be a senator. No bullshit 2024 run, no undercutting the convention, nada. Get Trump out. Just like you said you’d do.

  12. 12.

    kindness

    I hope you are right John.  My FB BernieBro friends are crying and whining.  Only some of them are going 2016 on the Democratic Party.  Oh and I see Jill Stein has jumped in on the action.  Karma won’t be pretty there.

  13. 13.

    hitchhiker

    That was my first reaction, too, Cole. The 2016 debacle was mostly driven by hatred for that woman. I don’t pretend to understand why, but if you look at what people did and said  — including, obviously, the media — there’s no other conclusion.

    It’s still so vehement that I don’t even know if it makes sense for her to publicly support Biden.

  14. 14.

    Chyron HR

    @trollhattan:

    no undercutting the convention

    Look, it’s completely unfair to hold Bernie responsible for the delegates that Bernie’s campaign chose.

  15. 15.

    joel hanes

    A year ago, I took a holy vow not to re-litigate the 2016 primary.

    At this time, I am taking a similar vow to not re-hash Sen. Sanders’s 2019/2020 campaign.

    I broke the first vow, occasionally, and I’ll probably break the second, even if the judges rule that this comment itself is not a technical violation.   But I can’t see any constructive purpose.

    And boy, do  we need constructive.

    Later, jackals

  18. 18.

    mrmoshpotato

    @kindness:

    Oh and I see Jill Stein has jumped in on the action. 

    Oh!  Well, the more ratfuckers the merrier as the phrase goes!

  19. 19.

    dr. bloor

    I’ve already come across a number of tweets that in effect cut Bernie slack for 2016 because he and his people reeeaaalllly, reeeeaallllly hated HRC, as if that was some sort of excuse for the shitshow that follows, to which I say,

    Fuck You, you narcissistic old fuck.  Go back to your three homes.

  20. 20.

    low-tech cyclist

    This race has been over ever since it started getting overshadowed by COVID-19 about four weeks back – Bernie was already way behind, and there was no way for him to win people over if they were only barely paying attention to the primaries anymore.

    Glad he finally had the sense to realize it, and throw in the towel now rather than sometime this summer.

  21. 21.

    mary s

    @Roger Moore:

    I don’t know Bernie personally, and I am very suspicious of any personality-based reporting on any politician. But I wouldn’t be be surprised if it’s true that Sanders is not well-liked in the Senate. However. I don’t understand why people say that Sanders is too “pure.” I mean, sure, that’s the way he sold himself as a presidential candidate, and sure, he espoused a lot of the same views for decades (I say this with respect). But as a senator he signed on to a lot of Democratic legislation — including the ACA — that was the result of big compromises.

  23. 23.

    schrodingers_cat

    BS played a pivotal role in bringing us the Orange nightmare. I had to cancel my plans of going to India in 2017 for a wedding. My lawyer said that it would be too much of a risk to go, after the Muslim ban stunt. And I am not even Muslim or from the countries the Orange One banned.

    I had applied for citizenship but didn’t have an interview date yet. Some of my older relatives who I wanted to meet are dead. I can’t go this summer either for COVID reasons. Last time I was in India was 2014.

    I  am sorry have zero compassion for the Leap Year Democrat.

  24. 24.

    A Ghost to Most

    @Baud: 
    Nah, that would presume we give a shit.

    He will change his affiliation back to (M,M,&I-VT), and no one will care.

  25. 25.

    Bruce K

    @mrmoshpotato: Would Memorial Day be good? Hopefully the balance of Bernie’s supporters will come through anger, denial, bargaining, and depression and arrive at acceptance by then.

    (Although in re Trump, I’m still ping-ponging between anger and depression almost four years later. Then again, I’m mourning not just an election result, but my country.)

  26. 26.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    @low-tech cyclist: Except he plans to NOT have his name removed from the ballot so apparently the state Presidential primaries will still need to be held..

  27. 27.

    Ken

    @trollhattan: no undercutting the convention

    The problem of undercutting a convention that very possibly will be held over Zoom is left as an exercise for the reader.

  28. 28.

    Gin & Tonic

    @kindness: With travel restrictions being what they are, though, Stein can’t go have dinner with her friend Comrade Vladimir Vladimirovich.

  30. 30.

    brendancalling

    @Baud: what does the T Bogg reference refer to? I used to work with that guy. He was…

    well, Mom always told me if you can’t say anything nice. But I’m curious, I couldn’t find it in the lexicon.

  33. 33.

    cckids

    No-one ever addresses the question of why only Bernie’s voters are so very special that we all need to feel their pain, address their issues specifically, and generally try to apologize for not seeing the greatness of the Bern. Those of us who supported Warren, Harris, Mayor Pete, Booker, never were given such treatment. We accepted reality and moved on.

    I’m unpleasantly reminded of 2009-11 interviews in diners across white America, assuaging the feelings of all the old coots who were disappointed in Obama.  Some are more equal than others, apparently.

  37. 37.

    Quaker in a Basement

    @mrmoshpotato: A week. Maybe 10 days. I had my turn when Warren dropped out. And when Brown decided not to run. And when Hickenlooper (yeah, yeah, I know! I’ve met him personally.) fizzled. So give ’em a little while to feel sad.

  38. 38.

    trollhattan

    @Ken:

    Virtual convention on some social platform or other seems like a solid possibility. IDK how that will work, but nobody can yell from the cheap seats so it could be an improvement. I really, really want Donny deprived of his “Triumph of the Will” moments. Slumped shoulders at COVID pressers just don’t seem to feed the beast.

  39. 39.

    pamelabrown53

    @EmbraceYourInnerCrone:

    I’d like to know if there are any remaining primary states that have not yet printed their ballets? Otherwise, Bernie saying he’s not removing his name from the ballot, sounds like a throwaway line.

  43. 43.

    negative 1

    @pamelabrown53: I can say in my northeastern state (still hasn’t had the primary yet) that I have always had the chance to vote for people who had dropped out.  I will guarantee that this year I could vote for Beto O’Rourke or Tulsi Gabbard if I so chose.

  45. 45.

    Roger Moore

    @mary s:

    I don’t understand why people say that Sanders is too “pure.” I mean, sure, that’s the way he sold himself as a presidential candidate

    People took his campaign seriously.  It’s unreasonable to campaign as the candidate of ideological purity and then complain when you’re rejected by people who believe in the necessity of compromise.  More importantly, as far as I can tell his claim to ideological purity has some basis in fact.  While he may have eventually voted for a lot of compromise bills, he was never the one involved in crafting those compromises.

    The point here is that Bernie is basically a back bencher.  He’s the guy who talks a lot about principles and refuses to dirty himself with the ugly business of compromise, but shows up to vote for the legislation that the people who are willing to compromise put together.  That’s fine.  Parties need people like that, both to remind them of the principles they’re nominally committed to and to provide them the votes they need.  But people like that aren’t party leaders, because party leadership demands the kind of politician who’s willing and able to put together coalitions and cut those deals.  This primary shows why.  It’s not just because we think it’s a good idea for our party leaders to be able to build coalitions and cut deals.  It’s because building a coalition within the party is how you win the primary.

  46. 46.

    James E Powell

    I never understood the Hillary Hate, never heard an adequate explanation for its intensity or its longevity. And I’m not talking 2016, I’m talking 1992 to 2020. I just don’t get it.

  47. 47.

    mrmoshpotato

    @trollhattan:

    I really, really want Donny deprived of his “Triumph of the Will” moments. 

    You don’t want to see a bunch of Russthuglicans shaking hands and smooching their Dear Leader in the middle of a pandemic?

  51. 51.

    negative 1

    @mrmoshpotato: Excellent point.  New Trump campaign slogan:

    Give the Commander in Chief a Hug for Freedom!

    Really it must be easy to be a republican campaign worker.  You don’t even have to make sense, just say the word ‘freedom’.

  53. 53.

    Martin

    Bernie and his staff FUCKING HATED Hillary Clinton.

    So what. That’s 4 years and 15,000 US covid deaths ago. Biden is the candidate, Trump is the target, a pandemic and rampant corruption is the motivation. Nothing that happened in the 2016 or 2020 primaries matters given the circumstances. We’ve got real shit to deal with, and the middle school grudge isn’t deserving of any of our energy. Move on everyone.

  54. 54.

    mvr

    @cckids:

    No-one ever addresses the question of why only Bernie’s voters are so very special that we all need to feel their pain, address their issues specifically, and generally try to apologize for not seeing the greatness of the Bern. Those of us who supported Warren, Harris, Mayor Pete, Booker, never were given such treatment. We accepted reality and moved on.

    As someone who would have been one of those Warren voters, it is just you do what you have to to make your coalition work. If someone happens to be harder to please over something and it doesn’t cost you much to please them, and you need their vote and maybe over time even their work, you do it

    But maybe I should cut us some slack since we seem to be wanting an apology.

  55. 55.

    trollhattan

    @mrmoshpotato:

    If I never see another Trumper in a “Fuck your feelings” tshirt–much less sixteen-thousand of them–then my life will be measurably improved. I figure the die-hards will still go out and get infected just to own the libs.

  56. 56.

    Melusine

    Thank Goddess he’s finally out.

    And fuck him and his bros/pick me’s for fucking over some amazing female candidates, at least one of whom had far better chances of putting some the ideals he supposedly supports into practice, and would have pushed hard to hold this administration accountable.

    Every time I see Warren or Harris or Hillary in an interview I curse him and his cultists with every once of bile I have.

    Trumptards, bernistas, and Mammon-worshipping “Christians”.

    Never forget, never forgive.

  57. 57.

    mrmoshpotato

    In unrelated news, I have a big loaf of bread that I’m going to garlic the fuck out of tonight.

  60. 60.

    trollhattan

    @mrmoshpotato:

    David Sirota tells me all I need to about the candidate’s character and underlying morals. So far as I know nobody working for him was forced upon him. “Hire my worthless son-in-law and I’ll endorse you.”

  61. 61.

    Anotherlurker

    @mrmoshpotato: The hate for HRC has one good aspect: It prompted me to leave FB.  I posted a Hillary quote referring to trump’s inadequacy during this Pandemic.  A FB friend answered “Murderer!”.   Silly me, I thought he was referring to the Orange Menace.  He corrected himself and said he meant her.

    I was taken aback by his shortsightedness in holding onto this thoroughly debunked B.S.  He had also been of the habit of calling me a babykiller because I posted a positive article about Planned Parenthood.  He is the perfect example of the corrosive effects the Catholic Church on Ireland.

    Anyway, he was politely told to fuck off and take his ignorance elsewhere.  Soon after, I deleted my account.  Between this a-hole and the rabid Berniebros, I had had enough.

  62. 62.

    The Thin Black Duke

    I’d really like the Bernie Sanders supporters who are allegedly on ‘our’ side to tell the BernieBros to go fuck off. That’d be nice.

  63. 63.

    kindness

    Maybe now is a good time to allow Trump to have his stadium rallies again?

    Wouldn’t hurt us that there would be less of them around come November.  Let the Evangelical Mega Churches have services too.  7 days a week if you ask me.

  65. 65.

    laura

    @Leto: you get to look up a photo of his basset hounds, both living and dead. Oh, those beautiful low long big eared socks pooling arpund there dinosaur cankles bassets.

    It’s easy, just set your google-tubes for tbogg twitter and then bask in the basset reward. You wont be sorry.

  68. 68.

    Archon

    @James E Powell:

    I have a friend who represents the cohort of voters who would likely be voting Republican if the party didn’t go off the deep end (40 year old, educated white male) who hates Hillary Clinton with the power of a 1000 suns. He voted for her because he understood who and what Trump was but he had an irrational dislike of her and believed pretty much every sordid tale that had to do with how corrupt she was.

  69. 69.

    Mohagan

    @Roger Moore:  I read something similar – that Biden always treated Bernie well (in stark contrast to other Ds, apparently), so Bernie refused to really go negative on Joe when his staff wanted to when it became clear the road to the nomination had become unlikely.

  70. 70.

    Emma from FL

    @mvr: You did not answer the question, I think. Why should those of us whose preferred candidate lost and, at varying levels of happiness, moved on to support Biden, should have to treat Bernie supporters like delicate little hothouse flowers? Especially when previous experience teaches us that a solid subset of them will do what they can to disrupt the process?

    Personally I think we keep on going. Leave the door open for those that want to join us. Ignore the rest. They are adults. If they want to act like psychopathic brats they can on their own time.

  73. 73.

    Anotherlurker

    @kindness: One side of me wants to see the Orange rallies and the cheek by jowl evangelical grifting starting again. The other side of me knows that these assholes wouldn’t just infect themselves.  They would endanger actual good people.

  74. 74.

    ThresherK

    @Anotherlurker: I posted a Hillary quote referring to Trump’s inadequacy during this Pandemic. A FB friend answered…

    I have had a few experiences like this.

    I am giving my BernieBro friends time to grieve their loss.

    I was greatly heartened by Warren’s “if someone picks up my standard (policies) and carries it into battle, I’m delighted” response after her withdrawal.

  79. 79.

    laura

    @A Ghost to Most: and so he did, that vile filth. He killed John Prine and Bill Withers. Two blue collar working stiffs who wrote simple songs that tapped deep emotion about our human condition and leave lasting legacies.

  83. 83.

    Miss Bianca

    @Archon: It is a never-failing source of amazement and pain to me just *how much* most white people hated Hillary Clinton. I have never been able to fathom how they could fall for all the shit that the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy threw at her, but it’s true – the ones who didn’t vote for her practically froth at the mouth when they talk about her. It’s creepy and sad.

  85. 85.

    Elizabelle

    Linda Tripp has left this planet.  Illness; may not have been COVID-related.  Aged 70.

  86. 86.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    Tactical gear in the time of coronavirus:

    I'm seated at my makeshift desk in my suit waiting for first Zoom court appearance to start.
    Wife: [peeks under desk]
    Me: YES I AM WEARING PANTS.
    Wife: Why?
    Me: WHAT IF THE JUDGE ASKS?
    Wife: Lie?
    Me: I AM AN OFFICER OF THE COURT!
    Wife: NOT ABOUT PANTS!
    Elaina, 13: WHY ARE WE YELLING?

    — VeryBigVeryPowerfulHat (@Popehat) April 8, 2020

  87. 87.

    Betty Cracker

    Huh, this is interesting [CNN]: “Sanders had multiple conversations with Obama ahead of decision to end campaign.”

    Former President Barack Obama played an active, albeit private, role in the Democratic presidential primary that effectively ended on Wednesday when Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders dropped out of the race.

    Obama and Sanders spoke multiple times in the last few weeks as the Vermont senator determined the future of his campaign, a source familiar with the conversation tells CNN. Sanders’ decision to get out on Wednesday paves the way for Joe Biden, who served as Obama’s vice president for eight years, to become the Democratic nominee.

    I know Obama is writing a memoir. If he includes all the political intrigue over the past several years, it’ll be impossible to put down.

  88. 88.

    Miss Bianca

    @Mary G: I don’t think he actually did – personally, I think he took a lot of credit for what others, most notably HRC, were already doing and promoting. But whatever – if people can console themselves with that notion and reconcile themselves to voting for the Democrats on that account, that notion will have served its purpose.

    I am nothing if not pragmatical.

  89. 89.

    lige

    I think the hate went both ways in the 2016 election between the HRC and BS campaigns.  There’s plenty of blame to go around for acrimony.  I’m still a little mystified by the Tim Kaine VP choice when it seemed like it was time to pick someone from the left wing of the party to help unify things.

  90. 90.

    MJS

    @kindness: Unfortunately, the attendees of those events also live among us, and will spread the virus to more than just fellow attendees. Also, their illness will further burden an already overburdened health care system. Finally, given their almost universal whiteness, it’s likely they’ll receive treatment at the expense of non-whites. So, as fun as it might be to fantasize about all of them getting sick, it’s not a good plan.

  91. 91.

    Brachiator

    one thing is pretty damned clear- Bernie and his staff FUCKING HATED Hillary Clinton.

    Unfortunately, they were standing in a pretty long line.

    The only thing we can do is push ahead towards the future and do better.

  93. 93.

    trollhattan

    @Anotherlurker:

    Agreed. On a much larger scale Florida, Georgia, et al are going to extend the epidemic by months in the States because of their reflexive need to filter every decision through a political sieve. Just as Trump has, is and will kill people needlessly, they’re doing it too.

  100. 100.

    Archon

    @Betty Cracker:

    If Obama keeps it 100 and is prepared to make a few enemies in the endeavor I think he has the ability to write one of the most fascinating political memoirs of all-time.

  101. 101.

    BC in Illinois

    On Linda Tripp, Monica Lewinsky tweeted a gracious message:

    no matter the past, upon hearing that linda tripp is very seriously ill, i hope for her recovery. i can’t imagine how difficult this is for her family.

  104. 104.

    negative 1

    @BC in Illinois: Did you see Monica Lewinsky on John Oliver’s show?  She’s a very incredible person, to put it mildly.  If I had gone through what she did I would… not be as good a person as her.

  109. 109.

    VFX Lurker

    I lost 17-year old relationships in 2016 because Sanders revealed the deep misogyny of people I (thought I) knew. Sanders didn’t make voters misogynist, but he courted misogynists, and he won misogynist votes.

    Sanders taught me that not all “liberals” are my allies. Bitter lesson learned.

  110. 110.

    Betty Cracker

    @Archon: Agreed. And Obama is a genuinely gifted writer too. If he decides to really open up, it will be fascinating.

    @negative 1: Haven’t seen that Oliver episode yet, but Lewinsky does seem incredibly gracious given what she went through. I mean, she was just a kid when all that happened.

  114. 114.

    Ocotillo

    Think about the contrast between GOPers and Dems…….

    If Trump had prevailed over an opponent that was not a member of the party but used the GOP as a vehicle to try and get a nomination he would not have to worry about appeasing said defeated foe’s supporters.  As a matter of fact, he would go on the offensive and run a real GOPer against the loser and constantly deride and insult the person until they either retired or lost their next election.

    Democrats have no such luxury.  Hence the old saying Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line.

    sigh.

  115. 115.

    Brachiator

    @Miss Bianca:

    It is a never-failing source of amazement and pain to me just *how much* most white people hated Hillary Clinton.

    There were people who hated both Bill and Hillary, and people who seemed to hate Bill as soon as he started out and seemed to be headed for a political career.

    But I agree that the hatred directed at Hillary intensified to an insane degree.

  116. 116.

    Facebones

    @cckids: Damn right! No one gave a shit about the supporters of Pete or Harris or Warren. I’m tempted to react to them the way they did to our candidates dropping out. Namely by pointing and laughing and mocking them. <Nelson.ha-ha.gif>

    But, no. Their tender fee fees must be considered.

    Suck it up, cupcakes. You think no one else had had to vote for a candidate they didn’t like? No one else had a candidate they loved suffer defeat? Jesus, grow up.

  117. 117.

    Ksmiami

    @laura: payment for the GOP needs to be in kind. Normally I’m a non violent person but when it comes to these fascist thugs, show trials and guillotines. leave no survivors

  118. 118.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Miss Bianca: The irrational hatred of Hillary Clinton baffles me (and I’m a fan, even as I see her faults). I’ve heard never-trump Republicans talk about the shady business deals– the Bush brothers say hi! I remember Colin Powell saying in (IIRC) leaked emails that even though he had endorsed her, he thought she was “greedy” and “ambitious”. Really, St Colin, you wanna talk ‘ambition’? tell us about your involvement in the My Lai investigation; you wanna talk greed? Let’s see your income from speaking fees. And his silence in the trump years is deafening and damning.

    (and of course, the “ambitious” part gives the game away)

  119. 119.

    BR

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I never liked the Clintons (either of them), but I think it was rooted in something real: they, like Bernie, hired a lot of toxic staff and attracted and kept around a lot of toxic personalities, and didn’t seem to recognize the problem with that.

    It was the opposite of Obama, who knew how to pick competent, no-drama folks.

    Clinton ’16 was better than ’08, in part because of ex-Obama folks.

  120. 120.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @BR: I always liked Hillary better than Bill, but I never have quite been able to let go of the fact that she hired Mark Penn. It’s way down a list that starts with the Iraq vote, but it’s there.

  121. 121.

    Omnes Omnibus

    I am wondering how old some of you who never liked the Clintons are?  I also wonder how long you have been Dems.  No casting aspersions, I just remember how much of a breath of fresh air they were in ‘92 and how great it was to win.

  122. 122.

    JimV

    “Bernie and his staff HATED Hillary Clinton”–yes, there was a lot of that going around, and after the election I wanted to say to them what Teardrop said to the sheriff in “Winter’s Bone”: “Are you happy now?”

  123. 123.

    Mnemosyne

    @Mohagan:

    Given that Bernie’s Jewish Outreach Coordinator is the one who started pushing the “Biden is a rapist!” claim, I give leave to doubt this. This is just Bernie trying to pretend that he wasn’t the one who asked his staff to rid him of a meddlesome competitor.

  124. 124.

    Mnemosyne

    @Brachiator:

    In addition to misogyny, the other problem with the Clintons is that they were race traitors. Bill Clinton was a Southern white man who forged strong ties with Black politicians and helped move their causes forward. There was no greater betrayal as far as white conservatives were concerned.

    And remember, one of Hillary’s first jobs out of college was helping racist white “academies” get shut down for violating equal protection laws. The millennials who hated Hillary didn’t know about it until the convention, but Southern racists knew and they hated her for it.

  125. 125.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Omnes Omnibus: 52, all my life. I never liked the lip-biting, the overacting (even as I recognized its effectiveness), the neediness. Should he have been impeached over his fling? No. Should he have recognized the risk he was running for his own presidency, and for all those of us who supported him? Fuckin’ A. When Bob Kerrey called him “an unusually good liar”, he wasn’t talking about anything having to do with Little Willie, he was as I recall reacting to Bubba going before a room full of country club types and saying “I think I raised your taxes too much too”– that need to always be liked, to always seduce, to always win the room.

    And he’s become less likable in his post-presidency, from his sale of the Iraq War to his apparent conviction that he’s an elder statesman who deserves respect and gratitude from the party (that’s IIRC what his ‘this guy should be getting us coffee’ remark to Kennedy was about); to my mind, we saved his presidency from his own immaturity. Not reining in (and I strongly suspect encouraging) the loyalists like Carville and Ed Rendell (that in itself…) who spent Obama’s first term trolling the man who robbed Bubba of his third term. Telling Mitt Romney that he would’ve won in 2012 if it hadn’t been for hurricane Sandy– he knew that would leak. The over-complicated and star-fucking charitable foundation he couldn’t explain when it counted. And even though I at the time thought it was no big deal (politically), he just couldn’t resist the urge to give Loretta Lynch the chance to bask in his presence on a tarmac in Phoenix

    Yeah, it felt good to win, and I bought into all of it, the place called Hope, the bridge to the 21st century, even Don’t Stop Thinking About Tomorrow, but even in real time and on the sunny side of thirty, and before anybody knew about Monica Lewinsky, I recognized that he was sloppy and self-indulgent.

  126. 126.

    Geminid

    @Brachiator: Misogyny was obviously a factor in Clinton’s loss; her loss was so narrow that that a number of other factors also contributed. Some were within Clinton’s control, like campaign strategy and tactics, and some, like the actions Sanders and Comey, were outside her control. But she was also half of “The Clinton’s,” and a lot of misogynistic animus was intensified by resentment of Bill Clinton. I thought he did a good job as President, but I myself  did not like the political-industrial complex and the way it could  enrich Bill Clinton. Other people hated it. Al Gore also cashed in, but he held a lower office and lacks the charisma that made Bill Clinton both loved and hated. Hilary Clinton also bore the brunt of people’s general resentment of the establishment.             I always believed Hilary would have been a good president, but in spite of her qualifications I did not consider her a good candidate, partly because of the irrational intensity of the resentment I could see lot of people had towards her.

  128. 128.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: That’s my memory, too.

    I always hung on to that. Always liked Hillary better than Bill, too – she got shit from the very beginning, the minute she said she had bigger things to do than bake cookies. I, ardent feminist that I am, thought I was prepared for the backlash to that remark. I was wrong – it was truly stunning, how that remark got twisted into “Hillary the He-Woman True Woman Hater”.

    I thought we could get beyond that. I was wrong.

    From there it was a short step – or it seemed like a short step, altho’ it was over 20 years in the making – to watching young white feminist academics seriously arguing that being a Bernie supporter was more feminist than supporting Hillary.  smdh

    I guess we are officially Olds, eh, when we can remember the Clintons as being young and exciting and Kennedy-esque, rather than the despised “Establishment”. They were considered upstarts, at the time, by the actual political establishment in DC – and despised for that, too. : (

  130. 130.

    Subsole

    @mrmoshpotato:  Yeah, it can be pricy. But I loved it. The cafeteria here served some for a few weeks and it was delicious. Pungent, but also with a bit of sweet to the aftertaste.

  132. 132.

    J R in WV

    @James E Powell:

    I never understood the Hillary Hate, never heard an adequate explanation for its intensity or its longevity. And I’m not talking 2016, I’m talking 1992 to 2020. I just don’t get it.

    I’ll take a swing at Clinton hate. When the Clintons showed up in DC, they were not insiders; they had never been to one of the Graham cocktail parties, for example. I forget which DC party circuit maven said it, but “They aren’t one of us!” was one of the cogent points.

    They were from Arkansas, never mind that Hillary was from Chicago and they met at Harvard. Never mind that Hillary worked hard in the south to desegregate schools, and to force educators to accept disabled students. They weren’t part of the political establishment, they were hicks, not invited to cocktail parties for years gone by.

    Plus they were liberal Democrats, and whatever else DC is, it is most specifically NOT liberal. So the long time DC folk joined with the Republicans to hate the hick liberals from Arkansas.

    And the Special Prosecutor spent millions of dollars and years calling witnesses to testify before his Grand Jury. Couldn’t find any crime anywhere, until a Republican Stooge squealed on Monica L, who unwisely shared her tryst with Bill with the Stooge.

    Impeachment for the famous blowjob. The rest is history, ugly horrible history, but still…

  135. 135.

    J R in WV

    @J R in WV:

    Ah, yes, “Race Traitors” was the term used by the racists to drum up Clinton Hate.

    How could I have forgotten that term?? ~!!~

  136. 136.

    laura

    @Steeplejack (phone): thank you for pointing out my error. I still hate trump and he still killed John Prine and I’m still saddened by the loss of these towering singer songwriters and their working class roots.

  137. 137.

    rivers

    @J R in WV:

    One of the famous quotes was David Broder’s “He (Clinton) came in here and he trashed the place, and it’s not his place.” Insiders – which included a lot of media – thought of Washington as “their place” and they only grudgingly allowed outsiders into their special circles.  The Clintons never had a chance where the establishment media was concerned. And it got worse as the years went on. I’ve often thought that a lot of it was jealousy – many of the men who had top jobs in the Washington media world were Bill Clinton’s age or only a little older. How dare he waltz in from Arkansas and claim the top prize? And the New York Times loathing for them both began very early.

  139. 139.

    suffragette city

    It was always apparent to me anyway Bernie decided to jump into 2016 because a woman was running and also too how dare she do better than he!!  I’m still hoping he takes his wagging finger and shoves it up his own…well nevermind.

  140. 140.

    Zelma

    I have often pondered on “Hillary hatred,” because to a degree I shared it.  Not hatred exactly, but not unalloyed support.  I was a strong Clinton supporter in 1992 and was actually impressed by Hillary.  I was in what was largely a male-dominated field and I saw Hillary as a role model.  I felt her treatment by the press, etc., was terribly unfair.  I did not fault her for staying in her marriage; their relationship was none of my business.  I was appalled by Bill’s behavior.

    But I was less happy with her post-White House behavior.  Clearly, she had her eyes set on the presidency.  I certainly do not fault her for being ambitious but I just wasn’t comfortable with what I felt was a sense of it being her due.  I didn’t want a Clinton restoration.  So I supported Obama in 2008.  And nothing in her behavior during that campaign made me feel any better about her.

    I supported her in 2016 with both money and time, if with less enthusiasm than I felt for Obama.  Clearly she was the best candidate and may have been one of the best prepared candidates ever.  It is a tragedy that she lost and she was certainly treated unfairly by the press and the pundits.  I cried myself to sleep on November 8.

    She made life choices that I completely understand.  I am about four years older than she is and I faced similar issues.  In a more enlightened world, Hillary Rodham should have been able to have a career that could have led her to the presidency.  But that was not her world.

    In all probability, I will not live to see a woman president.  But it will happen.  And when it does, it will be because that woman could forge a path to the presidency on her own.  Hillary could not.  She is a woman of her time and her time did not afford her that opportunity.

    I’m not sure the above makes much sense.  But I think my ambivalence about Hillary explains something about what happened in 2016.

  143. 143.

    Medicine Man

    I don’t think it is fair to chalk up 100% of the Clinton-hate in Sanders circles as misogyny. I won’t deny there is plenty of misogyny all over North American politics, but I haven’t personally found the Sanders crowd any more misogynistic than any other group (with the notable exception of the trap house types and a few other media provocateurs). I acknowledge that some of you may have seen different things than me and had different experiences.

    I’ve found the defining characteristic of the Sanders crowd is a subterranean opinion of triangulation, influence-trading, and basically anything that smells like old-school politics. It is a pretty visible through line in Sandersland and one goes a long way to explaining their deep dislike of Clinton, without applying an -ism of any kind. Regarding her as an exemplar of the politics of careful hedging is not irrational or unwarranted.

  144. 144.

    senyordave

    @AxelFoley: She was 22 at time of affair.  If Clinton was CEO of any publicly traded company he would have been shown the door for having a consensual sexual affair with a 22 year old intern.

  145. 145.

    James E Powell

    @Zelma:

    I don’t want to argue your points, but consider how different your narrative would be if Comey had not sent the letter.

  147. 147.

    Sloegin

    @James E Powell: 20 plus years of RW Anti-Clinton propaganda did the job it started out to do. Propaganda works amazingly well. It saturated the Right, thoroughly soaked the Bernie Brahs, and even colored regular D voters of all stripes. It’s irrational, it’s pervasive, it’s endemic.

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