Richard Nixon famously said about Barbara Bush that “she knew how to hate.” For a Republican, that’s a hell of a compliment. Even though I have to spit whenever I say David Frum’s name because of his role as warmonger speechwriter for GWB, I have to admit that his latest piece in the Atlantic shows that he knows how to hate, too. First, the facts:
That the pandemic occurred is not Trump’s fault. The utter unpreparedness of the United States for a pandemic is Trump’s fault. The loss of stockpiled respirators to breakage because the federal government let maintenance contracts lapse in 2018 is Trump’s fault. The failure to store sufficient protective medical gear in the national arsenal is Trump’s fault. That states are bidding against other states for equipment, paying many multiples of the precrisis price for ventilators, is Trump’s fault. Air travelers summoned home and forced to stand for hours in dense airport crowds alongside infected people? That was Trump’s fault too. Ten weeks of insisting that the coronavirus is a harmless flu that would miraculously go away on its own? Trump’s fault again. The refusal of red-state governors to act promptly, the failure to close Florida and Gulf Coast beaches until late March? That fault is more widely shared, but again, responsibility rests with Trump: He could have stopped it, and he did not.
The lying about the coronavirus by hosts on Fox News and conservative talk radio is Trump’s fault: They did it to protect him. The false hope of instant cures and nonexistent vaccines is Trump’s fault, because he told those lies to cover up his failure to act in time. The severity of the economic crisis is Trump’s fault; things would have been less bad if he had acted faster instead of sending out his chief economic adviser and his son Eric to assure Americans that the first stock-market dips were buying opportunities. The firing of a Navy captain for speaking truthfully about the virus’s threat to his crew? Trump’s fault. The fact that so many key government jobs were either empty or filled by mediocrities? Trump’s fault. The insertion of Trump’s arrogant and incompetent son-in-law as commander in chief of the national medical supply chain? Trump’s fault.
Then, the hate:
He has never tried to be president of the whole United States, but at most 46 percent of it, to the extent that serving even the 46 percent has been consistent with his supreme concerns: stealing, loafing, and whining. Now he is not even serving the 46 percent.
“Stealing, loafing and whining” captures Trump’s approach to the Presidency more precisely than any other phrase I’ve heard.
I don’t have any illusions that never-Trumpers like Frum or the equally eloquent Jennifer Rubin (she’s pitch-perfect here and in most of her recent, prolific output) are going to achieve their goal to eject Trump and Trumpism from the party. But it is instructive to watch their rhetoric, because both of them are good at criticizing Trump without pulling any punches. When they’re in, they’re all in.
Ohio Mom
Can you really “eject Trump and Trumpism from the (Republican) Party”? As far as I can tell, they are the distilled essence of Republicanism.
As I remarked before, I live in a Red suburb full of never-Trumpers who actually voted for Hillary by a good margin. They keep voting for the likes of Rob Portman though, so their protest vote accomplished nothing. F’em all.
Baud
@Ohio Mom:
Agree. The only thing that can eject Trumpism from the Republican party is spending 20 years out of power.
Dmbeaster
Rhetoric is important. This is the type of language that works. It coarsens the speaker, too, and its ugly. But this not a genteel fight.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
As driftglass coined it a number of years back: Republican Detachment Disorder. Thus, it’s always hard for me to give GOP water carriers like those two any credit.
That being said, again going back to driftglass, “The homunculi who are left inside the Batshit Thunderdome are either stupid, evil or nuts…or some cocktail of all three.”
When Frum and Rubin start to routinely state that they’ll be voting Democratic, maybe I’ll be convinced that they have, at least for now, left the Batshit Thunderdome. Until then…
Baud
It’s a fine phrase but it doesn’t capture the Trump approach because it leaves out the bigotry and hate.
Archon
If Trump loses this November (especially badly) I’m fascinated to see what happens to the anti-Trump Republicans. If that happens I suspect their exile from the party will be permanent because they will be looked at as collaborators to Democrats more then principled Republicans who saw the disaster coming. I think conservative elite supplicants to Trump along with his 5th avenue supporters will have their own “stabbed in the back” story ready to-go if Trump loses and anti-Trump conservatives will be the main antagonists in their rage.
I could be wrong though because I could also see a universe where by December Fox News is telling viewers that Trump was really a liberal democrat.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ohio Mom: @Baud: yup, if Bill Cohen isn’t campaigning against Susan Collins, and Jeff Flake isn’t campaigning against Martha McSally– just to pick two alleged never-trumpers in states with upcoming Senate elections– then all their alleged righteousness is just…. balloon juice.
For Ohio Mom: Has Jon Kasich gone as quiet in his one-time half-hearted opposition as it seems to me?
A Ghost to Most
@Dmbeaster: They ALWAYS double down, pull a gun from their boot, a knife from their belt.
Nuke them from space. Just to be sure.
Baud
@Archon:
They’ll tell themselves that Trump was an aberration caused by the unique horribleness of Hillary Clinton. The pundits and certain people on Twitter will agree, and then they’ll continue in as if nothing happened.
Kelly
Ads with video of Trump “I don’t take responsibility at all” paired with images of the disaster seem like a good idea.
Ten Bears
The Trump Pandemic
Dorothy A. Winsor
@A Ghost to Most:
Or as a friend of mine used to advise, bury the head separately from the body.
Archon
@Ohio Mom:
“I’m voting down ballot GOP but I recognize Trump is too dangerous to be President and has to go”, is a principled, logical position for a partisan Republican to take in my view.
Nettoyeur
@Baud: The GOP was pretty much out of power (though oppositional) form 1932 to 1952 (if. you consider Ike to really have been GOP) or 1960 if you don’t. And then they started the Southern Strategy and moved steadily back to McCarthyism, America Firstism, and Socialism for Rich White Guys. 20 years out of power was not enough to cure them.
clay
@Kelly: There have already been ads like that. Biden has one, and some independent groups as well.
BobS
That article by Frum is great- I’ve been sending it to friends and family since I read it earlier this morning. Given their pasts, I’m always suspicious of him and Jennifer Rubin, but both have used their writing talents for good purposes recently.
Hopefully, like John Cole, their turn away from the dark side is permanent.
Baud
@Nettoyeur:
They had improved, but the civil rights act was like an injection of mad cow right into their brains.
Betty Cracker
I read that piece in The Atlantic yesterday, and you’re right — it’s a good one. It’s been so disconcerting to agree with Frum and Rubin for the past three years. I used to look forward to hate-reading their columns on Israel or tax policy again when things returned to “normal,” but now I’m pretty sure I’ve seen the last of normal.
MattF
It’s true– if you want an honestly venomous, judgmental take on Trump, go talk to an ex-Republican. It’s how they roll.
ETA: I should add that, however, I will never follow Kristol. That’s a bridge too far.
Barbara
@Archon: I just don’t care what happens to them anymore. They have been so effective at distilling their own best interests for so long that they don’t need my understanding, concern, or my anything. While I appreciate our shared revulsion, for me to actually welcome their advice and ideas, they need to first demonstrate that they are motivated by the shared interests of the nation and not aesthetic distaste or worse over Trump’s particular manifestation of me first capitalism. In other words, they need to move off the Republican agenda that sees universal health care as “socialism” and regulation in general as a gross incursion on personal liberty. Sure, we can disagree about means and methods and degrees, but I don’t want to disagree about the fundamentals any longer.
Baud
@BobS:
I’m suspicious too but there are people who will be more receptive to a message coming from a disenchanted Republican than a dedicated Democrat.
Kelly
@clay: Excellent! I’ve missed the ads. With sports shut down my broadcast TV consumption is zero.
geg6
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I could be wrong, but I seem to remember several instances in the last year or two when Rubin said she would not be voting for any Republicans in the foreseeable future.
BobS
@Baud: Of course, the fact that Frum and Rubin are both ‘globalists’ makes it easier for ‘real Americans’ to dismiss what they speak and write.
Jager
A friend of mine, a retired aerospace exec, is doing contract work for JPL. He went to a meeting with one of the trump appointed NASA adminstrators and the Mars Lander Team. It was all politics rather than science, so much so that one of the senior guys said after the meeting, “maybe we should spray the god damned thing gold and paint a big T on it”.
Baud
@BobS:
Sure, those people are unreachable by anybody. Not much you can do about that except try to outvote them.
Gvg
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: it is strategically unwise for them to actually state that although I think they will actually do that. There is plenty of criticism of Trump that say they will vote democratic. In order to actually peel off a few more Republican voters, there has to be some critisism coming from inside the house. Most people do not listen at all to those they consider opponents or enemy. So there needs to be some who are stubbornly insisting they are real conservatives or republicans stating Trump is a bad leader.
its also useful if some publically change parties. You kind of need a multipronged approach and it’s the sum total that works, not one individual voice. I think, that’s my opinion anyway.
Professor Bigfoot
@Archon: These assholes refuse to acknowledge that Trump could not do what he does without the wholesale support of the Republican Party.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@geg6:
I vaguely remember that as well.
But, I have plenty of “Embarrassed Republican” friends who all screaming anti-Trumpers. But, they’ll never vote for a Democrat. Last time around almost to a person they abrogated their electoral responsibilities by voting Glibertarian.
OTOH, I’ve got two friends who have been lifetime Republicans, one from the business side of the party and the other from the evangelical side. Both came out saying they voted for Clinton and have been vigorous supporters whoever the Dem nominee would be. So there are some out there but until I see others flat out stating they will be voting for Democrats, I’m still ‘fuck em’.
Baud
@Gvg:
I agree. I tire of people looking for a single political holy grail that will fix everything.
WereBear
They want to blame Trump for all of it, eject him, and go on their merry way. Remember when they rebranded themselves as the Tea Party? Same tactic.
Now, if they declare they are voting Democratic from now on, that’s different. But I can name them on the fingers of one hand.
eric
@Kelly: this is a cold hard truth.
Miss Bianca
@MattF: Although, weirdly, Kristol, the man who is always wrong, has been right a few times lately.
If that’s not a sign of the End Times, I don’t know what is!
Renie
Unbelievable article by Frum,knowing he was Bush’s speechwriter. That adds a bit of weight to his views since he’s not ‘a libtard’. Will never understand how anyone can still support that imbecile unless that person is making $$ off of something due to trump or is just a plain racist.
Baud
@Miss Bianca:
A pandemic?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Ben Cardin apparently tosses out these nuggets about the SBA PPP and EIDL programs (per Reddit):
”-PPP only 30% of funds committed. Not concerned about funding but highly concerned about EIDL and grant fund that has already been exhausted.
-3.5 million EIDL advance/grant requests totalling $11 billion as calculated by SBA on sliding scale averaging $3142.00 per business. Even with sliding scale 10 billion fund totally depleted meaning some will not get anything. SBA not releasing funds in 3 days due to not having enough in fund, implying the issue is a matter of “fairness”.
-3.8 million EIDL loan requests totalling $378 billion, average request 200k. Out of all requests only $7.3 billion have been approved. Wants to add additional $50 billion to EIDL fund. As SBA has capped at 15k per loan.”
I am fucked. Mom and Pop shops are fucked. Everybody but big business is fucked.
Ten Bears
I has long been my contention that by whatever metric you choose: physical, moral, academic, aesthetic, drumpf uck is an accurate representation of your Average American… a blustering, bullshiting, baby-raping, conniving dumb fat-ass utterly lacking in moral principles, cognitive reasoning and ability to accept responsibility for their own actions, or the consequences. Basically the infamous forty-seven percent, those incapable of reading and following the directions to satisfactorily fill out a standardized employment application. The Rubes. A feature. Not a bug.
laura
@Archon: again, Driftglass is the go to guy for all things republican party. They’re attempting to “build the lifeboats” and will deny ever even knowing about trump let alone vote for him. There is no trumpism. There are only republicans doing what republicans have been doing for well over 50 years. Undo the new deal, undo the civil rights acts, undo any and everything that challenges the return to the Gilded age. Return to Taney, return to Lochner, return to The Jungle. If there is a blue WAVE come November 3rd, expect a fresh, shiny, all-new tea party. Expect the media to cletus safari the shit out of it. Expect a return to deficits are going to kill us all in our beds so we must end social security and medicare so we can save it. The caterwauling about rolling back the tax cuts for rich fuckers act will be heard in outerspace.
Burn. The. Lifeboats. Make them own this. Not ever going to be ready to make nice for the rest of my life.
MattF
@Baud: Still waiting for the Whore of Babylon to make an appearance, though.
Miss Bianca
@Baud: Well, that, too, of course, but really it was when I saw photographic evidence of cats! and dogs! living together and even snuggling under TaMara’s roof, that I had a feeling the jig was up.
Baud
@MattF:
I recently watched that on pornhub.
Subsole
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I find his framing of it as an addiction issue extremely helpful. Matches up with what I have seen as well.
Essentially, we’re gonna need a national detox program.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Baud:
The unscripted stuff is better, I hear.
Yutsano
@WereBear: We just need a few of them in a few places. Nibbling on the margins can make all the difference in this race. I’ll take those few multiplied across the country. That would be beyond a rout. Add in the Democratic enthusiasm and we should get the Senate as well.
Baud
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
“Hear.” Right.
MattF
@Baud: Y’know, it’s never occurred to me to search for Babylon porn. Hmmm.
Subsole
@Baud:
Any talk of reconciliation needs to bear in mind that we were right and they were lethally wrong, and that they will never, under any conceivable circumstance, forgive that simple fact.
Baud
@MattF:
Another good flick is Mark of the Breast.
hueyplong
Kristol’s twitter account lists him as a member of the Democratic Party, and he’s in some group promoting fair elections in the literal sense, as opposed to the Republican sense of elections fairly and openly comprised of white people. Rubin is arguably the best read there is about Trump in the major newspapers.
A look at the RWNJ comments on their twitter feeds makes it fairly clear that within a week or so of their apostasy, they had to pick between abject surrender and becoming lifelong members of the NFLTG Club. Both chose the latter. They know for a fact the difference between left wing “incivility” and the real thing, from the right.
I think both will be reliable through election day. All bets are off the day after that.
As for when the GOP turned into monsters, I’ll take their reaction to the surprise loss to Harry Truman in 1948. They were going to win the next time by hook or by crook, and a little Joe McCarthy was a small price to pay as far as they were concerned. The Southern Strategy was just another page added to a playbook that had already been chosen as an express embrace of amorality in the pursuit of power.
Nicole
@Baud:
Yeah, and that’s due to the GOP FOX News mouthpiece turning the Democrats into the “other” over the past 3 decades. I have family members whose personal ethics line up exactly with the Democratic party, but who cannot, cannot bring themselves to vote for a Democrat because being Republican is part of their identity, as much as their religion, and for 30 years FOX has told them Democrats are the enemy.
I wish some of these Never Trumpers would realize the best thing they could do is to not go Independent, but do the full John Cole and publicly announce they’ve registered as Democrats. The Never Trumpers can’t give up their identity as Republicans, either. And making a political party part of one’s personal identity is foolish. Republican politicians don’t show their constituents any loyalty, because they don’t need to. Their voters give it to them anyway.
I’m not trying to be a b-j suck up, but I do really go back every so often and look at that post Cole wrote when he switched his party affiliation. It’s still one of my favorite things I’ve ever read on the internet.
I’m still listening to Cuomo’s briefing every day, and man, while I get the tightrope he’s walking, I sometimes wish he would take time to point out that this blocking of aid by the Feds is a Republican blocking of aid. That this is the natural end point of a party that values capitalism over everything being in charge.
Duane
The country’s stockpile of PPE’s is nearly depleted according to the AP. Helluva job, Kushie.
Subsole
I’m gonna laugh my ass off when Trump gets up and says he was born in Slicakua and therefore never actually an American citizen, and therefore cannot be prosecuted as he was never actually president…
Bonus points if he does it after Fox spends a month making a pious martyr of him.
Gravie
Trump-leaning acquaintances of mine on FB have defaulted to decrying the “haters” (us, in other words) and pleading for us all to be nice and pull together. Nah gah happen.
Ivan X
@Archon: I concur.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I remember Janeane Garofalo saying something much like that years ago, something like “At this point, still being a Republican is a sign of mental illness.” And that was on Air America, it was so long ago. Remember them?
Republicans have managed somehow to go steadily downhill from that point.
Archon
@laura:
Because Obama ran on a unity platform in 08 he felt compelled to pretend Republicans had intellectually honest positions, unfortunately it helped give the media way too much cover to pretend the same.
Obama can be forgiven for trying to break the wheel and do things differently even though it didn’t work. My hope is that Biden knows better now and that any talk of “working with Republicans” is just kabuki for low information voters. I definitely understand people’s concern with Biden intentionally running into the same wall Obama did though.
Betty Cracker
I think I recall hearing recently that Kristol registered as a Democrat. (Maybe he announced it in a tweet?) Strange times we’re living in.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Jesus Christ, what a clusterfuck. Marco Rubio is trying very hard to own PPP. I hope it owns his sorry ass.
cain
@Baud:
I don’t know if that’s true. By this time they are apostates in conservative circles. I think they will be more involved in democratic circles and trying to pull them more conservative – eg a bulwark against the leftward shift that Democrats have been moving in.
Also, they’ve ingratiated themselves into our community, and you can bet they’ve made the political connections to boot. So I think they’ll be hanging around.
I dont think that is true of Tom Nichols though – I am not sure where he will be – probably an independent. I don’t think he is that comfortable in democratic circles.
Mai naem mobile
@Betty Cracker: I remember seeing Rubin years ago on some WSJ roundtable show they used to have on CNBC and I just thought she had just such a mean ugly tone. I had no idea who she was but I tell you it’s still a surprise when I see her stuff now.
Frum has never been a RWNJ. He’s just a Canadian Tory Warhawk.
MattF
@hueyplong: I don’t have a specific link, but I believe Rubin has made positive references to Hillary Clinton. There’s no going back after that.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Subsole: The story I expect in November is:
Nicole
@Archon:
That’s my big concern, too, and it’s a doozy. Biden was in Congress in such a different era, and it gets hard for a lot of people to accept that times change, even in the vaunted halls of Congress. There is no bipartisanship now. But part of what has made Biden last in Congress so long is that he wants to be liked, and wants to get along with people, and the current iteration of the GOP will take advantage of that six ways from Sunday, and the media will encourage them.
Yutsano
@Betty Cracker: Per his Wiki page it’s true. And he might have just gone total DFH. Although if he gets behind single payer I’m gonna start looking for avionic porcines.
hueyplong
@MattF: I have a similar recollection, but mine is more along the lines of “even Hillary would have been better than this.”
laura
@Archon: who owns the media? That’s why so few remember the immediate convening of a Republican hoolie just after the election where they committed to opposing every hot and tiddle of the Obama plan for recovery, for the ACA, court appointments. I am not aware of any rollback from concentration of ownership of the media.
It will not matter if Biden urges unity, the media will not support him they will make it nigh unto impossible to get anything done. Again. Please, prove me wrong.
AnotherBruce
If Rubin and Frum want to get rid of Trump. They should not only not vote Republican that, they should vote Democratic. Why weaken your vote when you have another viable choice. Are they afraid of getting Democratic cooties?
Aleta
Yes but the stock market.
Overrode T’s words and actions among, for one example, white wealthy liberal-living Connecticut-estate owners who “never liked him but.”
Now the market’s an issue. (Except for those fortunate to profit from instability.)
Yutsano
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: He’ll get all four con justices that’s already a given. But I could see that as a line too far for Roberts. And I bet he won’t be allowed to skip out that easily.
Kent
That’s not their MO. Their well-practiced MO from 2000 and 2016 is to fuck with the elections at the state level and then use the courts to block any remedies. So they will pick a few choice swing states that are in GOP control like WI and just steal the election there. Unfortunately both MI and PA are now in Dem hands. and WI has a Dem governor but he seems pretty powerless to affect the course of elections. But SCOTUS seems willing and eager to endorse every bit of GOP fuckery at the state level.
Subsole
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Sounds about right. I honestly didn’t even think about the SC shenanigans.
I dully expect he will loot the treasury. Probably sell every last state secret he can to the highest bidder, as well.
I wonder, given the massive security risk, is there some way to keep him surveilled, so he doesn’t skip bail? Marshalls Service, FBI, someone?
(Jesus, what a timeline…)
clay
@Baud: The Mark of the Breast is 669.
Subsole
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Sounds about right. I honestly didn’t even think about the SC shenanigans.
I fully expect he will loot the treasury. Probably sell every last state secret he can to the highest bidder, as well.
I wonder, given the massive security risk, is there some way to keep him surveilled, so he doesn’t skip bail? Marshalls Service, FBI, someone?
(Jesus, what a timeline…)
cain
Shit.. John’s transition is probably not typical. I think John was always socially liberal (hell he was a dead head!) but conservatism always had an aura of integrity, honor and truthfulness that is completely missing today but people seems nostalgic about (ok, not people but the media) I’m sick of older press people who keeps going back to that well. It’s harmful and untrue.
stinger
@Archon: Not if the down ballot includes US House and Senate members who failed to vote for impeachment or conviction. Within their state/municipality, sure, vote for members of the party that elevated Trump. Be that on your own head. Maybe individual Republicans are different at a local level. But to vote for anyone who had the chance to remove him from office and didn’t — that’s neither principled nor logical.
Kent
@Archon: If you actually read and listen to what Biden is saying. When he speaks of reaching across to Republicans he is almost ALWAYS talking about ordinary Republican voters, not the Senate.
Eight years in the Obama administration and the recent experience with the fake Ukraine scandal they tried to pin on him and his son and are STILL trying to keep alive in the Senate has most certainly disabused Biden of any notion that he can actually work with GOP Senators. All this talk of working with Republicans is almost entirely about getting Republican or Republican-leaning voters to VOTE for him. It isn’t about some Progressive agenda that will be voted on my the GOP Senate.
Biden isn’t always the most artful speaker and doesn’t always parse his words with precision. But I’m pretty sure his conciliatory talk about Republicans is entirely targeted at ordinary Republican and centrist voters, not the Senate.
senyordave
@Kelly: Ads with video of Trump “I don’t take responsibility at all” paired with images of the disaster seem like a good idea.
I would add an image of Harry Truman at his desk with the iconic plaque that said “the buck stops here”. I think it would be a great contrast.
Sebastian
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
That little Caribbean country will get a visit from the United States Marine Corps after some honest to God pummeling for the ages by cruise missiles and the United States Air Force.
If you ever wanted to see how it looks when a nation gets wiped off the planet, that’s going to be it.
cain
I wrote an entire comment and then instead of posting I hit clear and then hit some other button and it got posted. Argh.
Anyways, I was just saying that if Joe thinks that he will get along with Republicans he is in a rude awakening. They take no prisoners, they see us as the enemy and will treat us like one.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Baud: Ding! DIng! Ding! we have a winner! Same as it ever was. It’s the entire premise of the current (going back to Reagan or further) Republican party that is rotten. But they will never admit that the “Let’s make government small enough to drown in a bathtub/ regulations, we don’t need no stinking regulations” attitude is what got us to this point. Trump is a syptom. The disease has been festering for a long, long time.
Ruckus
The major problem is that the never trumpers have only woken up to trump, not to what led us down the trump road in the first place.
My safe bet is that they will revert back to form the moment he’s gone. It’s not the policies, or lack of them, they don’t like, it’s the so obvious way that he goes about them, not hiding the hate, bigotry and greed.
cain
Goddam it. This pisses me off.
WHY THE FUCK ARE WE ALWAYS REACHING OUT TO REPUBLICAN VOTERS?!
We keep treating them like special snowflakes. The DNC also formulates their plans to reach out to Republican voters.
How about we reach out and help black folks, immigrants and all these others. We don’t need these folks, we don’t need to treat them as special. Stop reaching out to them specifically.
It just annoys me because it seems to be happening all the damn time.. Obama tried for 8 years to reach out conservative voters and it’s always been a shit show.
ETA: Sorry Kent I wasn’t yelling at you – just at the idea that we need to reach out to conservative voters when there are so many others deserving our attention. These voters never will turn around and help us..
Ohio Mom
Archon @13: All my principled Republican neighbors who voted a straight ticket except for Trump are a part of the reason we are stuck with Trump.
Ohio has one fabulous Senator, Sherrod Brown, and Rob Portman, who could be Susan Collin’s brother.
If they hadn’t sent Portman back to the Senate, there would have been one more vote to remove Trump, and Also one less reason for Mitch McConnell to be running the Senate.
They want it both ways and that isn’t how the world works.
Ruckus
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
That sounds like what a normal psychopath would do, but trump being an idiot, he will screw that up and try and hide out in FL
playingcheating at golf.Renie
Pence is not allowing Fauci to appear on CNN until CNN shows the entirety of trump’s ‘rally’ press briefings. They don’t want CNN cutting off any portions. At this point, no networks should be airing any part of the briefings cuz they are all b.s. and just propaganda.
different-church-lady
@Archon: Trump is the symptom. The disease is in the party. Voting indiscriminately down ballot republican merely allows the disease an enviornment for further growth. It’s a lack of recognition of the true problem.
Bex
@MattF: In Revelation the Whore of Babylon represents imperial Rome and all its sins against humanity.
BobS
@Renie: It’s about time Fauci went rogue- he’s established himself enough that he can do more good pissing inside the tent from outside.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Archon:
he can be “forgiven” for winning the White House twice, appointing two Supreme Court justices, passing an $800B stimulus plan that rescued the economy, saved the US auto industry, passed a health care plan that among other things provided coverage to 20M poor people, leading the world to the Paris climate accords and the Iran nuclear deal….
That’s mighty… generous of you
different-church-lady
@cain: My read: Cole is a smart, decent guy who needed a bit of time to figure out how to operate his intelligence and decency correctly. His initial attachment to republicans and conservative worldview was more cultural than conscious. Eventually his inherent decency woke his brain up.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mai naem mobile: I’ve thought for a while that Rubin was the most likely big name pundit to do a full Cole-like switch, then somebody posted some of her writings on Obama that were almost moose-lamb soshulist sleeper agent stuff, so I’ve pulled back from that. But she does talk about choice and climate in a way that make me wonder if she hasn’t been transformed
different-church-lady
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: For cetain folk on the far left, he can never be forgiven for the sin of actually winning office.
johnnybuck
@cain: Because they are reliable voters.
Archon
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
When it comes to touting Obama accomplishments you’re speaking to the choir my friend. My point is he ran as a unity, “no red state, no blue state”, candidate and Republicans used that against him which boxed Obama in from going public and keeping it real on GOP duplicity from the beginning.
That is unless you think Obama was the last Democrat in America to figure out Republicans were stringing him along?
Cameron
@BobS: I think the Biden campaign should offer him a job as a public-health adviser.
jc
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: yes, Frum, Rubin and Steve Schmidt must be viewed with skepticism. But I wish more Dems would speak out with knives as sharp.
Archon
@Ohio Mom:
Out of curiosity would your calculation be different if Bernie Sanders was at the top of the ticket? Would you expect all Republicans to vote straight ticket Dem for left-wing revolution or be complicit for Trump?
Calouste
NeverTrump Republicans? Except for Mitt Romney, every Republican in Congress supported the shitgibbon during impeachment. If you vote Republican for Congress, you support Trump, simple as that. There is no significant opposition within the GOP as a party against Trump.
Archon
@different-church-lady:
Whether Trump is the symptom or disease I don’t think it’s a helpful or even useful argument to tell people that have been voting Republican their whole life that they must vote down ballot Dem or be complicit in Trump’s failures.
Origuy
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
All of the Caribbean countries have extradition treaties with the USA.
https://2009-2017.state.gov/documents/organization/71600.pdf
MoCA Ace
I tell them oh were pulling alright, and pulling you incompetent science denying assholes along with us because it’s the only way we can beat this thing. If there were any other way I would be happy to leave you all behind.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Archon:
so your theory is… what? that if Obama had screamed and yelled and jumped up and down and called Republicans dumb motherfuckers, then Arlen Specter and Olympia Snowe (and Blanche Lincoln and Joe Lieberman) would have voted for a trillion dollar stimulus? Mark Pryor and Mary Landrieu would have gone all-in on a public option? Colorado would’ve reelected Mark Udall? Martha Coakely would’ve beat Scott Brown? Scott Walker would have lost in WI? Explain to me how Obama “keeping it real” (good god) would have changed things. A birdie would have landed on his finger during a speech? I am fascinated– if really fucking annoyed– by the Performative Emo theories of politics.
“Obama can be forgiven” was your… I’ll be charitable and say unfortunate turn of phrase
MoCA Ace
@Archon: Agreed.
I ask all my republican and republican leaning acquaintances and family that if they can’t bring themselves to vote for a Democrat this November please stay home and let us fix this shit for you.
Edit: This is typically post-rant, and saved for those who then try to both sides it. You can’t bargain with true believers.
Upon closer reading, not agreed. I’m not talking just the top of the ticket… I want them staying home to starve the republican party until they get a clue (like in a generation or two).
burnspbesq
@Archon:
I’m voting down ballot GOP but I recognize Trump is too dangerous to be President and has to go”, is a principled, logical position for a partisan Republican to take in my view.
Maybe in the handful of states, like MA and MD, that have competent Republican governors. But if you live in, say, TX-01, what’s the principled justification for voting for Cornyn and Gohmert?
J R in WV
@Baud:
Yes, I am no longer amazed at the irrational behavior of racist bigots. I watched a cousin who moved to Columbus at a young age become a racist, followed by his turn to theocratic patriarchal crazed religion, including racism. After not hearing from him for years, I got a call where he asked me tearfully to consider voting for Ronald Reagan.
When his sister came out of the closet with a black choir singer partner, he didn’t change a bit. All 3 of those cousins smoked tobacco, all of them died pretty young. Two of them were great people, one was a RWNJ Theocrat. Sad.
I will never forget seeing the signs “Whites only” and “Colored only” in the Jim Crow south at a young age. Then I was shocked again as a 20 y o sailor in the Navy, my duty station was changed to Pascagoula in 1972, and Jim Crow was alive and well, beloved by all the white folks, in spite of the Civil Rights act.
I’m sure it still is beloved in most of what was Jim Crow. I will never go down south again, it is a moral wasteland populated by evil racists, except for the black folks, who are way too good for their white neighbors.
Archon
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I think an argument can be made that Obama could have been much more confrontational with GOP tactics early in his Presidency. That possibly would have increased public pressure on elected Republicans to do the right thing, especially during the crisis. That would have presented it’s own problems though for reasons I stated above.
I’m no emo leftie or green lantern theory political analysis but I’m definitely not one who thinks Presidential rhetoric is irrelevant either.
BobS
@burnspbesq: I’ve been politically sentient since the late 1960’s, and I’ve never defined Republican ‘principles’ as anything but hate, fear, & greed- they’ve never done anything to prove me wrong.
L85NJGT
Trump is an accelerant on re-alignment. Up until 2018 progressive observers were still selling the hope that districts like Lee Hamilton’s would come home with some good old time populist framing and candidates.
That ship has sailed.
burnspbesq
@Origuy:
UAE doesn’t have an extradition treaty with the US. wanna bet Trump pops up in Dubai shortly after 1/20/21?
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Origuy: Ah, OK. I guess he could move into Julian Assange’s old room at the Ecuadorian embassy then.
different-church-lady
@Archon: I didn’t say anything about telling them. I’m just saying to you it’s not really principled nor logical. Dr. Frankenstein will just make another monster.
How to get them to see the light is above my pay grade.
different-church-lady
@Gravie: As I recall there was a t-shirt that was very popular with Trump voters that read, “FUCK YOUR FEELINGS.”
Footwear. Feet. Rotation. All that, all that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@L85NJGT:
that’s a good way to put it, you may see somebody steal that in the future
Sebastian
@burnspbesq:
Never going to happen. Casus belli.
cain
Yes, but you’d have to change your platform to get them. It just seems that folks are obsessed with trying to change their mind. They aren’t going to change their mind.. you have to first shut down Fox News so that they have a chance to get de-programmed.
J R in WV
@Bex:
So the Whore of Babylon IS THE DONALD TRUMP after all?!!!?!?!
different-church-lady
@cain:
I guess it depends on how one defines “reaching out”.
If reaching out means trying to persuade those who are persuadable, then it’s very worthwhile, because as we’ve seen these things can be won or lost at the margins.
If reaching out means pandering, then fuck it right to hell.
Dan B
@Archon: It’s difficult to disentangle Obama’s “non-partisan” approach from his working with Jamie Dimon and taking it easy on the bad actors on Wall Street. Many Bernie fans believe that Wall Street is the worst thing in America. They see racism and other Us vs. Them issues as secondary. The existential fears of most minorities in this system don’t register. Obama made political calculations. He chose his battles and lost some.
If the GOP allows Biden to assume the presidency it will be non stop battles. How many should Biden take on?
Subsole
@cain:
This. This, right here, in glorious 200 pt. Technicolor.
catclub
The republican party in 1938 was America Firsters – hitler lovers.
It took 15 years… and then Mccarthy
ballerat
@Renie: WTF? How can you legally prevent a citizen from talking with members of the press?
Why are they reporting it as if Trump has that power? That is so dangerous. The media has no fucking idea how to deal with trumpism. They instead enable it by normalizing it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Dan B:
oh for fuck’s sake
this again
chrisanthemama
“Hope has two beautiful daughters named Anger and Courage: Anger at the way things are, and Courage to see that they do not remain that way”. St. Augustine
James E Powell
@Bex:
On American TV, the Whore of Babylon represents whoever the TV preacher needs it to represent this month in order to get the flock to send him more money.
I was brought up in Catholic school; we got mostly Baltimore catechism and did very little actual Bible study. First time I sat down and read the Bible was Revelation right after I saw the movie Omen (Gregory Peck and Lee Remick). I couldn’t believe anyone took Revelation seriously.
joel hanes
@MattF:
Still waiting for the Whore of Babylon to make an appearance, though.
Investigate the missing years in Melania Knaus’s work life, during which she was supposedly working as a model, but for which no published work nor even any portfolio shots have ever surfaced.
James E Powell
@Archon:
There were times I was frustrated that Obama would not use his magical powers. But back then and now, I thought the flames had to come from Democratic senators and congresspersons.
In the first two years, Obama wasn’t constrained by Republicans as much as he was by Blue Dogs that he needed to get things through the senate.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@joel hanes: I believe the polite term is “Courtesan of Ljuljana”
and she did so have a portfolio!
joel hanes
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: a
That was at the end of the invisible period.
She had at that point already achieved her goal of ensnaring Trump, while working as a “model” in his “modeling agency”.
joel hanes
@James E Powell:
I couldn’t believe anyone took Revelation seriously.
It is a great tragedy that the councils decided to include The Revelation of St. John in the canon — IMHO it has done more damage to the world than almost any other book.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@joel hanes: part of me wants to speculate on exactly how she rode I mean rose to the top of that “agency”, part of me thinks it would be irresponsible, to my own mental well-being, to speculate
patrick II
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
It is not that I respect Rubin or Frum’s politics, if Romney was running again they would vote Republican in a second, just the skill and unabashedness of their attacks on Trump.
I watch MSNBC and for quite a time Nicole Wallace and guest Rick Wilson were the most straightforward critics of Trump. The whole evening lineup, save “both sides” Brian Wilson have mostly caught up.
For months, if not years, most MSNBC guests, skilled reasonable people, would say things like “according to the law, this is what should happen now”. It was never going to happen. As about every commenter here has noted the Republican party has become the 21st-century version of a fascist party, led by their id archetype to take whatever they can grab and hold onto.
evodevo
@Archon: That is why we are not saddled (luckily!!) with Bevin in Ky…a LOT of “independents” and Repubs voted against him, but voted straight Repub down the rest of the ticket. That tells you right there what will happen in Nov. Even if they become convinced that Trumpy was a bad choice, they will STILL vote for Repubs down ticket. In Ky, it has a LOT to do with ‘bortion and immigration as emotional triggers for them.
evodevo
@Baud: Yes….describes it perfectly.
debbie
Frum’s list of things Trump wasted time on is missing an important addition: that he spent weeks calling COVID-19 a “Democrat hoax.”
Dave W.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ve been reading Rubin’s columns for the past few years since Trump got elected, and she has been pretty clear that the problem isn’t just Trump, but all his enablers in the House and Senate who need to be held accountable for their votes and actions and removed from office. She’s in the “burn the current form of the Republican party down” camp, not the “everything will be fine and normal once we get rid of Trump” camp.