Last night:
DR OZ: "Schools are a very appetizing opportunity. I just saw a nice piece in The Lancet arguing the opening of schools may only cost us 2 to 3%, in terms of total mortality. Any, you know, any life is a life lost, but … that might be a tradeoff some folks would consider." ?? pic.twitter.com/aifMeKTsIv
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) April 16, 2020
Never once in 20 years was this greater-comparative-death-from-mundane-occurrences argument acceptable on the right when it came to terrorism. But for millionaires to save their investment portfolios, a lItLLe PeRSpEctIVe Is iN OrDeR https://t.co/utKZGe6H8J
— Spencer Ackerman (@attackerman) April 17, 2020
.
Today:
100's of protestors outside Governor of Minnesota home shouting, "USA" 1 women reported to say, "don't come near me I have #COVID19"
Trump incited Minnesota on Twitter, saying "Liberate Minnesota" TRUMP THIS IS ON YOU. No masks, no social distancing!??pic.twitter.com/eEuWyg4Ank
— Peter Morley (@morethanmySLE) April 17, 2020
EMULATE MARYLAND!https://t.co/7t3seiWVt0 https://t.co/jV0T5Rg3c7
— Slava Malamud (@SlavaMalamud) April 17, 2020
Oh fuck off https://t.co/08Mk3Owata
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) April 17, 2020
Thing about Trump’s call for insurrection: the kinds of people who showed up in Lansing—a lot of old people who wouldn’t get out of their cars—are far from a Freikorps or Bolshevik vanguard.
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) April 17, 2020
Call out the serfs!…
I gotta say what makes the tweet sublime is the obvious implication that, just as in the conflicts she mentioned, Ms Ingraham will not be doing any “liberating” herself.
— Adam Serwer?? (@AdamSerwer) April 17, 2020
The “LIBERATE” stuff makes no sense outside of a herrenvolk ideology, where a majority of actual citizens is meaningless because only the Volk, represented by its Leader, can offer legitimacy. If you’re not a Real American or their anointed you don’t matter.
— Adam Serwer?? (@AdamSerwer) April 17, 2020
The fiction-writing professionals find themselves outdone:
I have to admit that the number of people openly and publicly disappointed that there have not been more dead because of this virus has been educational in itself. https://t.co/J4XjkRUOjC
— John Scalzi (@scalzi) April 15, 2020
Baud
Keep tweeting. In November, we Americans are going to liberate the White House.
Nora
Liberate Michigan from sense and science. Let’s go back to the good old days of the Black Death. /sarcasm.
CaseyL
You know it’s bad when the creator of the Crazification Factor says, “I underestimated just how insane these people are.”
8 man shell
People saying stupid shit on Twitter.
People reposting people saying stupid shit on Twitter.
Same shit, different day.
taumaturgo
Pro-life? My ass.
Bex
Liberate Ms. Ingraham from Faux News and wherever else she might find a job.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
They are also idiots who can’t do basic math; that’s 6 to 9 million Americans dying.
Chyron HR
That was the REPUBLICANS, you dumb stunt.
Baud
FWIW, I’m not overly worried about violence before the election. We need to be prepared for domestic terrorism after we win, however.
dmsilev
So many questions. The obvious one is does the long arm of the law also extend to pants-optional mopping? We also have to ask whether it is morally correct to snitch on one’s neighbors for engaging in such activities. Are any police officers undergoing PTSD treatment?
Elizabelle
@Baud: And Liberate the Senate. And Trump’s tweets could help make that happen.
Heading out for a walk. Catch you guys later.
germy
Dr. Oz has apologized.
mrmoshpotato
Oz can go first. Asshole.
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Freedom isn’t free.
germy
Patricia Kayden
Baud
@germy: “I’m sorry people were offended” or a real apology?
Mike in NC
We ought to be grateful that celebrity quack Dr Oz wasn’t placed in charge of tackling the pandemic from the beginning. “Only 5 million dead! Thank you, Orange God!”
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@germy: Oz can’t apologize for pig ignorant stupid.
I am not surprised Oz thinks drowning deaths are a big deal, doubtlessly they in his inbreed idiot family from bathing and dental care accidents.
mrmoshpotato
@dmsilev: Where’s the mustard?
dmsilev
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Mr. President, I’m not saying we wouldn’t get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks.
germy
Scout211
Bad day. My neighbor, who said he didn’t think masks were all that necessary and social distancing was enough, continued to meet with people in his AA program and now is sick. He’s in his late 70s and has serious heart and lung problems.
This post just resonated with my current state of shock that so many people are so invested in denial and disregard for facts.
Sigh.
Lapassionara
@germy: How does someone apologize for this kind of ignorant statement? We need to bring back the stocks.
germy
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Dr. Phil is the one who quoted drowning deaths. He and his family are grifters.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Patricia Kayden: That tweet fits my thought what’s really going on is the GOP is losing control of their base and desperately maxing out the stupid to keep the rest of them from thinking.
mrmoshpotato
@Lapassionara: I think I have some tomatoes I should throw out.
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Yep. Increasingly cornered animal. Especially after their Wisconsin gambit failed miserably.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@germy: Ah, I stand corrected, there are so many worthless media ghouls these days. I mean seriously WTF does Oz mean “appetizing”; He’s planning to eat the corpses?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@germy:
The word “misspoke” has slipped free of all meaning.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Dr. Oz is a fucking grifter who ought to know better
Sister Golden Bear
@taumaturgo: Don’t you know life only exists from conception to birth. //
Lapassionara
@germy: Seriously? He misspoke? What he did was emulate Dear Leader’s approach to the plague — he said the quiet parts out loud. It works for Trump, but for some reason, others are surprised to discover that being an asshole is not a get out of jail free card for everyone, only for Trump.
I still don’t understand this, but I am glad that “letting Trump be Trump” has not yet resulted in widespread affection for Trump-like behavior in others.
Lapassionara
@mrmoshpotato: ?
Josie
@germy:
Bullshit. He didn’t misspeak. He miscalculated how many people are as sociopathic as he is. The blowback must have surprised him.
Jeffro
They’re all sick and we should keep calling them that. Donald J(im Jones) trumpov really will happily send them to their deaths just to avoid the accountability and great shame that is at long last coming for him.
WaterGirl
@germy: This is the same “apology” I would get from my cocker spaniel when I would catch her getting into the garbage.
Dr. Oz is surely very sorry that he said that out loud, on camera.
The Thin Black Duke
“Republican Monsters” is a redundancy.
Jeffro
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: he means the idea of his stock portfolio bouncing back, regardless of the cost, is really arousing to him…tasty…exciting…delicious…
…(barf)
But this is how these people think, and it’s how they talk when they’re amongst their own kind.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
That’s what I have a hard time wrapping my mind around. Who do these fucks think they are?
It’s like the Bundy Bunch and all of the militia groups descending on Malheur and Harney County. A lot of people in those towns didn’t want them there, but they apparently didn’t care.
Uncle Jeffy
Quick, someone re-run Johnny Carson’s “Karnak the Magnificent “: routine:
Karnak: “Trump University “
The Envelope: “Where did Dr. Phil get his degree in Epidemiology?”
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Reposting from below, because dead thread:
From the NY Post on March 25th:
The article is of course trying to lower expectations: “Nobody could have predicted and we did the best we could. Oh well!”
And I found this article from last year interviewing Auerbach and he seems to sing a different tune:
Somebody’s lying here.
germy
Brent
Not to defend Oz, whom I find incredibly loathesome, but he actually did misspeak. The study he was talking about referring to is actually talking about a 2-3% increase in the overall number of deaths. Not, as it sounded like he was saying, an an additional 2-3% of the entire population.
Again, it was still a pretty awful sentiment which makes sense because he is an awful human being but not quite the genocidal lunatic his statement appears to present.
August West
Trump should be tested for rabies because he’s acting like a rabid dog. It’s also time for him to be fitted for a straitjacket.
Capri
The thing is, the virus doesn’t care about posturing.
If somebody in the protester group is shedding the virus – then other folks will catch it. And they’ll get sick, or people they get close to will get sick. These people have this reverse Tinkerbell mentality that seems to be if you don’t “believe” in the virus it can’t touch you.
Dudes, the virus doesn’t care.
Jeffro
Btw glad to see some progressives like Josh Marshall and Adam Parkomenko starting to beat the drum for trumpov to resign. He won’t, but it needs to be a constant refrain from now through November.
L85NJGT
Natural causes……
germy
BR
Not sure who made this but it’s the best photoshopped Office meme I’ve seen yet with dear leader:
https://twitter.com/Terrence_STR/status/1250979617797746690
Achrachno
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Yeah, what’s a Holocaust or two among friends?
These people are straight-up criminal sociopaths, and we need to figure out some way to get this under control before they start killing people more widely. How can a democratic society cope with this sort of thing? Especially when they are numerous and our political system is deeply flawed with grossly undemocratic features that magnify their power beyond their numbers.
Michael
@germy: He said there are 350,000 swimming pool deaths. There are 3,500. His degree was not in medicine, and not in math either. Or critical thinking apparently.
Josie
@Brent:
I disagree. I understood exactly what the 2-3% was, and I also understood how he feels about the children, teachers, and support staff when he used the words “appetizing opportunity.”
different-church-lady
Oh heck, I did that way back in November 2016.
Ksmiami
@Capri: Same with their attitudes toward Global warming… The earth and the sun and the natural processes guided within really don’t care about your religion or politics- they’ll kill you either way so best to use our intelligence to make life livable
Ksmiami
@Achrachno: trials, hangings and Re-education camps. also tax the living shit out of religious organizations.
Ryan
Maryland is liberated!
danielx
@Lapassionara:
Stocks, hell – after seeing that picture of the guy with the swastika banner with ‘Trump’ and ‘Pence’ emblazoned on it, I’m thinking bring back the guillotine.
8 man shell
@WaterGirl:
But I bet your cocker actually looks remorseful when caught…
MattF
@Michael: The difference between the numbers is only zeroes, so it doesn’t count.
James E Powell
Paul Campos at LG&M asks, is this peak Haberman?
I say no! Peak Haberman is a myth!
Dmbeaster
@germy: Not an apology, but doubling down on being a d!ck. I knew Oz was bad, but not this bad.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
I may be nothing but a dumb lawyer, but something appears awry with Liddle Marco’s math:
Now, I was fiddling around.
74% of the total number of borrowers cited is 1,184,000
Assuming that each PPP loan in that lowest tranche was $150,000 (which it wasn’t – some an order of magnitude less), you only burn 177B.
So where’s the fucking money gone?
MattF
@James E Powell: It’s the WH line. Henry Olsen, a RW WaPo columnist, tried the same claim and I can guess where he got it.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
3% of 330 million is 9,900,000 dead, the equivalent of 16,500 Vietnam Wars.
MoCA Ace
I read the original quote… it is not confusing.
Geoboy
@germy:
I’ve realized my comments on risks around opening schools have confused and upset people, which was never my intention. I misspoke. pic.twitter.com/Kq1utwiCjR
— Dr. Mehmet Oz (@DrOz) April 16, 2020
We’re not confused at all, asswipe. Upset? Yes. Thinking that if you really do have a license to practice medicine it should be taken away like yesterday? Yes. Trying our hardest not to wish coronavirus on you but struggling with it? Absolutely.
Croaker
13 days and counting …
J R in WV
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Same place all that extra Inauguration money went — Trump’s hip pocket, or overseas bank account, or somewhere like that.
Didn’t Ivanka give one of her besties $50 million for “organizing”?? Some amount of that magnitude, anyhoo.
kindness
@danielx: My Dad and my uncle fought in WWII. They were Republicans but there is no way in hell they would stand for these miserable shits running around with swasticas after what they went through. I have a hard time with that stuff.
hueyplong
Following up on an earlier comment, the modifier “appetizing” did not fall out of the air and hit Oz in the head. What non-ghoul uses the word “appetizing” in the context of talking about a mortality bump arising from opening up schools?
And that tweet doesn’t even rise to the level of non-apology apology. He can fuck right off.
John Revolta
WTF? I knew these people were grifters but I didn’t think they were straight-up evil sociopaths.
What’s their angle here? Are they hoping to milk the traumas and guilt of a bunch of little kids who killed their grandparents?
Bluegirlfromwyo
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Appetizing with fava beans and a nice glass of chianti, apparently. What a sicko.
mrmoshpotato
@germy: Hahahahahahaha, shitpile political party says what?
GOP: What? How dare you call us a shitpile political party! We demand an apology!
J R in WV
@kindness:
My uncle came home from North Africa and the Med with jaundice and a Croix de Guerre from the Free French army.
He was a pacifist before and after the war, but I’m sure he would be totally offended by current people acting out like Nazis. I know I am.
Brent
@Josie: Fair enough. Like I said, I have no love for Oz myself.
My point, and it’s been confirmed by the interpretation of a few people in this thread (and many more on twitter), is that his phrasing made it seem like he was downplaying millions of additional deaths when he wasn’t really. In context, he was actually downplaying a few hundred more deaths.
Still pretty terrible, I don’t disagree.
Mandalay
@Josie:
Exactly right that he didn’t misspeak, but I think it was just a trial balloon to see what kind of sicko arguments you can get away with in the get-America-back-to-work movement.
joel hanes
@germy:
Oprah should have taken that shotgun to anti-vax eedjit Jenny McCarthy, to whom Oprah gave national exposure, long ago.
MattF
@John Revolta: They’re demonstrating their fealty to Trump. Since Trump is a psychopath, they’re following suit by being just like him. Same thing happened in Nazi Germany— the most ‘successful’ Nazis were the ones who saw themselves as little Hitlers.
Cacti
Dr. Oz is a snake oil selling charlatan whose specialty is cardiovascular surgery.
Dr. Phil isn’t even a physician, or a licensed clinical psychologist.
Oprah has major blind spot for medical phonies.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:
3% is even larger that the US Civil War deaths which were at 2.5% of the population. Though I gather outside the frapping fantasies of Hard Right Ghoul, the pandemic would die when 70% of the population is infected so the number is more like “only” 0.7% of the population dead or 2.3 million. Oh that would be in like three months, 2.3 million people would just drop dead.
Question – the real reason for the lack of hand lotion is because the 27% GOP hard core base been masturbating nonstop for the last month over the thought of mass death in population? It would be irresponsible not to ask.
Kent
Wow….along the lines that a stopped clock is correct once a decade, Roger Cohen actually writes a good column. No shits left to give?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/opinion/trump-coronavirus.html
an excerpt
Mandalay
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Well you’re not going to like the answer, so brace yourself, but there was a loophole in the small print the size of Montana:
Since few, if any, restaurant companies have more than 500 workers at any single location, that effectively meant than almost any restaurant chain was eligible to apply. And they did…
Yes, that would be the parent company for Ruth’s Chris Steak house, with 5,740 employees and $468 million in revenue last year. They fucking qualified for PPP as a “small business”.
The whole thing was a legalized scam to enrich the rich. And that’s where a good chunk of the fucking money has gone.
Martin
So, I want to temper these criticisms somewhat. I’m not defending the statements, but there’s two potential paths here:
We of course desire for 1, but the feds have no plans in place for 1. Some states are exploring it, but I don’t know they’ll be able to succeed with no restriction of movement from states that aren’t doing it.
It’s not unreasonable for people to speculate how 2 might work, because I think that’s what we’re stuck with. If we accept that we’re going to kill off x% of the population in order to avoid killing off 5x% of the population, then at some point you need to do the math on how to maximize the benefits under the x% approach. We can and should be mad at decisions made to put us on plan 2: mitigation, but we shouldn’t be too upset with folks that are saying ‘assuming plan 2: mitigation, this would be the best approach’.
I will never defend Drs Oz and Phil but Gavin and Cuomo may have to start making decisions along those lines, because I cannot see a path to 1, given Trump.
Kent
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: 3% is the exact percentage of the world’s civilian and military population that died of all war-related causes during WW2 including the Holocaust, famines in Ukraine and China, and all the combat deaths on every theater of war.
John Revolta
@MattF: I guess I didn’t realize who these guys’ audience was. I mean they started out on Oprah ferChrissake!
Martin
@Mandalay: Not sure how a govt loan enriches anyone.
ltelf
@germy: A bit of a Freudian Swift on his part.
TriassicSands
As I said in a comment last night we need new words for Trump and Republicans. The English language is simply no longer adequate to describe the utter depravity and worthlessness of those people. I suggested upgrading and updating “clusterf*ck” to “clustertrump” for things that are unimaginably bad, way worse than mere “clusterf*cks,” like pretty much everything Trump does. After telling states to call their own shots concerning reopening, to then tweet calling on people to “free” states with Democratic governors should be met with removal from office. Another new word we need is for the kind of “treason” Trump commits regularly. His actions don’t fit the constitutional definition of treason but they are betraying the country and the people just as surely as aiding the enemy in wartime does.
Truthfully, the ideal tool would be the 25th Amendment, but it wasn’t designed for a president who is unfit and unqualified for office and surrounded by a VP and cabinet members who are no better. It’s a shame this isn’t a virus that targets stupid people and monsters. The GOP would disappear. Trump would be an ugly smear on the floor. So to speak.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Yes, this what we are left with, because of that useless horses ass Trump, the best possible case is 2.3 million dying over the next year so lest we can burry the bodies in an organized manner. Jesus fucking Christ.
Lapassionara
@Martin: so what you are saying is that I should just accept that I am going to die soon, since I have a compromised immune system.
chopper
who the hell says this, land sharks?
trollhattan
This is what a full-service city government looks like in action. Okay, maybe less action than usual on the day.
Kent
@Martin: I understand the point you are making. But logically, schools don’t really add much to national productivity in the short term anyway. Teachers are all employed and doing distance learning. Kids are doing some rudimentary school work for the most part. Re-opening schools isn’t really going to do all that much to put America back to work except for maybe folks like the bus drivers who are currently furloughed.
If you want to start opening the country back up, things like construction and manufacturing would do a lot more to bring people back to work and generate economic activity than schools.
It was just an utterly dumbass comment all around. You get GREATLY increased transmission with not a lot of increase in economic activity.
Martin
@Lapassionara: No. I mean, even under 2 we need to protect people that are highly likely to die from this, and the states can do that kind of effort. But yeah, it’s not pleasant. It basically means to quarantine you for an extended period, and then build services around that reality.
Martin
@Kent: No, I agree 100% there, which is why I’m not willing to defend any of these specific statements.
What’s more, keeping kids home presents some real opportunities to move education out of the 19th century bunker that it insists on staying in.
I’ll add, the US is VERY service oriented. And we’re discovering just what it means to have ⅓ of our economy to be service based at a time when social contact is verboten. The service economy can adapt, somewhat, but they need to be much more aggressive in doing so.
trollhattan
@MoCA Ace:
“Let’s say 2, 3% of schools had a mass shooting. I think we could all agree that’s decent price to pay for keeping our holy Second Amendment.”
“I would think 2, 3% of 737 Max flights crashing would be an acceptable outcome for getting airlines and Boeing back on their feet.”
“We can all agree that 2, 3% of Republican congressional heads atop pikes would be applauded by most.”
Which of these is acceptable?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Kent:
But how do you send parents back to work if schools are closed?
Lapassionara
@Martin: I prefer to do everything possible to convince my government to follow the experts advice and ramp up testing and contact tracing. If I have to stay home in any event, I’m focusing my energy on the elections.
party of life, hah!
Martin
@Dorothy A. Winsor: That’s very much a different problem. That we view education as child care as its primary function says a lot about how fucked up education has gotten.
Put another way, if you have a massive service economy largely out of work, and a child care problem, you potentially have a problem that solves itself, albeit not inexpensively.
Chyron HR
Do the people running the GOP really think that 350 million brave American patriots would lay down their lives for the DJIA if only those liberals weren’t stopping them?
Uncle Cosmo
@Michael: My guess is that some serious ca$h changed hands to get him an “advance review copy” of the Elementary Statistics final back in the days when Dr Phool was just plain psych-student Phool.
lamh36
debbie
These MAGAts are too dumb to see that their heroes Ingrahm, Limbaugh, Beck, et al. are playing them for suckers. They’re all safely away in their socially distanced studios. The MAGAts should demand they leave their havens and stand at the front of the pickets lines in solidarity! Bastards.
In sad news, I found out one of my work teammates (there are six of us) died yesterday. She was tested for COVID the day before she died, but she had other health issues. She had worked there for 38 years (her only job) and was less than a year from retirement and had busted her ass to make it there. So much for goals.
Management kindly let us know via an email blast. I’d thought I was beyond being shocked. Au contraire.
Martin
@Lapassionara: Yeah, 1) is by far the better option.
I’m also worried about the longer term. Everyone is assuming some future date with vaccine and herd immunity.
Can anyone show me a coronavirus that has a vaccine? There are 4 common coronaviruses that routinely sweep through the population and confer virtually no immunity. MERS and SARS do, at least for a while, but that’s only been used to achieve containment. There is no reliance on herd immunity to address those outbreaks. I fear 2 may just dig our hole deeper.
JPL
Retail is open in TX for pickup only. Isn’t that what is happening now? Truthfully I can order from Kohl’s and if the store near me has it in stock, I can do curbside pickup.
danielx
@kindness:
My dad was an Eisenhower Republican…until Nixon.
Uncle Cosmo
@Josie: Perhaps as “appetizing” an “opportunity” as his ethnic forefathers saw in moving the Armenians out of eastern Anatolia in 1915. But, as a former German Chancellor famously remarked, who remembers them?
debbie
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I see Reason is defending Oz, but I won’t link. They basically say he meant thousands, but not millions. What I want to know is why they aren’t objecting to the use of the word “appetizing”? It’s totally inappropriate.
Ruckus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Grift long enough and have success you forget to understand that all good things come to an end. Bad things most often come to a smashing halt.
japa21
@trollhattan: None. 2,3% of Republican heads on pikes is way too low a number.
Nora Lenderbee
@Brent: The problem is the language he used. You downplay a few hundred deaths by calling it “better than the alternative” or “manageable” or “could be worse.” You don’t describe it as delicious and tempting.
debbie
@Martin:
Then we wait until November.
Wapiti
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Eating corpses is what ghouls do. Corpses are appetizing to them. One can see how he got confused and let slip the words he did.
Baud
@germy:
Reminds me of when Gabbard thought Hillary was talking about her when mentioning a candidate who was a Russian asset.
Just One More Canuck
@dmsilev:
Does the Taneytown Police Department have jurisdiction in Bethany?
Ruckus
@Ksmiami:
I think I see your problem. The people you are talking about have a rather small amount or control of their intelligence, which is what caused them to be republicans in the first place.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Martin:
BTW Where do your models predict we are on the curve? And how do you feel about a place like Ohio slowly opening up beginning on May 1st?
I know that the University of Washington model’s optimistic predictions rests on the assumption that that strong social distancing will continue until at least late May. How do you think states opening up beginning May 1st will affect that?
Lapassionara
@Martin: What bothers me is the basic premise that we will accept a certain number of deaths so businesses can make money again. If we did what the European countries did, and essentially guaranteed a percentage of everyone’s salary, which we could afford, and if we had a functioning federal response (I know, big if), we could manage this.
Just FYI, in my neighborhood construction is still going on, so they must be essential. The pain is being felt by restaurants, theaters, shopping centers, etc. and lifting a stay home order without testing, etc, does nothing to bring those types of businesses back, as people will still be reluctant to go out, not to mention not having the money to do so in the present circumstances.
Uncle Cosmo
For the GODDAMNED MOTHERFUCKING ‘LEBENTY-SEVENTH TIME –
(e.g., during general anesthesia for surgery)
Otherwise you might as well impeach & remove the bastard – it requires fewer votes (simple majority in the House instead of 2/3).
JPL
So nice to see CNN not cover his bullshit and I wish MSNBC would follow. Local NBC isn’t covering him though..
Chief Oshkosh
@Brent:
Even if he meant 2-3% of the projections from the WH, that’s still over 7,000 people.
Of course, it wouldn’t really be “just” 2-3% of the projection…
Skippy-san
Scalzi’s tweet is beyond fucked up. It proves he is a sociopath.
God I hate these people with the heat of a super nova
Van Buren
Are there any protests or calls for liberation in states run by Republicans? Just curious.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Skippy-san:
What’s wrong with what Scalzi said? He’s commenting on how fucked up sociopaths like Oz are
chopper
i agree, this is a very delectable opportunity. we should reopen schools, deliciously, so that every morsel of children can go back and wait, what was i talking about?
Delk
Gozer
“Appetizing”?
Unless he’s a cannibal or a pedophile I can’t see any reason why he’d use this wording. And he’s definitely smart enough to be able to use his vocabulary strategically.
Ruckus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Same question as you.
WTF?
debbie
@Van Buren:
I think Trump might be afraid of Mike DeWine. Kinda like the stories about elephants and mice.
Peale
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: once they found out that black people are disproportionately affected, of course they are demanding we
spread covid as widely as possiblereopen immediately. Seriously. Why do you think the Proud Boys were involved in the protests?Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Ruckus:
Often times, yes. Hopefully Oz loses his TV gig over this. He peddles woo
Bruuuuce
Variables don’t.
Constants aren’t.
Neither are “acceptable” losses.
May they all catch the virus. Twice, if they get past it the first time.
Elie
It seems sometimes that we have been possessed by a plague of demons. Its hard to imagine the evil that we see happening — and the number of people who have suffered and lost their lives — and those who will in the future — because of this creature and his supporters. My heart would be breaking but I need to keep it together for the fight/s ahead….
Wanderer
Mr. Os whatever type of advanced degree and licensing you have contact your university and review board and turn them both in now.
Jess
I think too many people read “A modest proposal” in high school and didn’t realize it was satire…
Tehanu
@Skippy-san:
Huh? Are you sure you read that right? Scalzi’s not saying he thinks these people are right or anything.
germy
Probably.
Parfigliano
@germy: Rule # 1 through infinity for insurance companies is in business to collect checks not write them.
Achrachno
@Ksmiami: trials. — OK. What are going to charge them with?
hangings — I’m not sure we can currently charge many of them with capital crimes. We need to think about convictions we can actually get. Better to get lots of 5 & 10 year sentences than create a couple of RW martyrs.
and Re-education camps. — OK, as long as we’re careful. That sort of thing can go totalitarian pretty easily. Again, what do we charge them with?
Charges of intimidation, threatening, illegal display of firearms and the like is probably where we should be going. Well, along with the usual rape, robbery, assault and battery, blocking traffic, etc.
also tax the living shit out of religious organizations– We’ll need to tailor that a bit to be sure we don’t hit the “normal”churches. Pull tax-exempt status for those run as scams, that violate various social distancing rules (public nuisance, or whatever), or that are political organizations.
Ksmiami
@chopper: Chomp Chomp!
Leto
Sweden Grapples with High Death Toll Rate After Controversially Refusing to Lock Down
Here’s your “Doctor” Oz/Phil case study. But we’re blazing our own trail of stupid on this.
germy
@Parfigliano: Yes, that’s their business model. And they’ve got all sorts of delaying tactics to avoid paying. But “this is unconstitutional!” is a new one to me.
Jeffro
@germy: I have a feeling that “New York Times Pitchbot” would phrase it as “Dr. Phil not provided enough time, thesaurus, to clarify his insights”
(izzat about right, DougJ? ;)
mrmoshpotato
@chopper: Plumber!
Dan B
@Delk: I like “flavo(u)rsome”, and “yummy”. They insert so picturesquely into Oz’s statement.
“Flavorsome opportunity” suggests a delicious first course – appetizer.
And “Yummy opportunity” feels ripe for a Randy Rainbow parody!
Ksmiami
@Achrachno: Trials of GOP: crimes against humanity, depraved indifference, profiteering, fomenting violence, RICO etc.
Hangings- kill or imprison the worst. Seize assets, outlaw the GOP as a criminal terrorist organization.
Re-education camps – not camps per se but reintroduce truth and civics into schools- private schools get fined if they promote BS.
Finally- there is no reason Churches should be exempted from taxation- this is partially why the Evangelicals and Catholic Churches have been allowed to get away with so much. If you are on American soil, you pay taxes and you obey the laws
@Achrachno:
JMG
My two brothers are classic throwback country club Republicans (a common species in our home state of Delaware). Oh, they loved Mitt Romney. Neither voted for Trump and took pains to tell me, but I’m pretty sure they didn’t vote for Hillary. I will be interested to see what they do this November.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@debbie: that’s 35,000 dead a month until January 2021.
Again, Jesus Fucking Christ.
Ohio Mom
Van Buren @124: Ohio has a Republican Governor, DeWine, and I believe we were the first to have a “Free our State” protest (you might have seen the photo of the zombie-like protesters screaming into the windows of our state capitol building’s locked doors).
Up until yesterday, DeWine was being very cautious, for example, closing the state down mid-March, insisting that he would follow the science, and so forth.
But now he is all about, “We’re opening the state up on May 1st.” It’s a big change in approach and I don’t know what to make of it.
I haven’t seen any numbers that would indicate we are past the worst, and I hate to think the protesters are going to take this as a direct result of their little rally.
i wish Kay would pop in, she generally has the skinny on Ohio politics.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@JMG: I know six people who are Republicans, two of them describe Trump as a “twat” and the other two are conspiracy huffers, the thirds says they trust doctors before politicians on this.
debbie
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Frankly, he needs to be carted away this very minute for those tweets encouraging his followers to liberate their states. That can’t legal in any sense of the word.
Brent
@Chief Oshkosh: Sure. Really what he said was based upon the Lancet study, which I don’t think (I don’t really remember) uses a specific number. It was more just an extrapolation based upon the UK as an example.
But of course, that’s right. Based upon how you model the projected death count, 2-3 percent would equal multiple thousand. Even the most optimistic models for the US will probably put that 2-3% near a couple thousand on the low end.
The funny thing is that my number one reason for disliking Dr Oz is that typically he is shamelessly alarmist. But here he is trying to downplay an outcome which is genuinely alarming. Indeed, as others have pointed out, he is actually expressing enthusiasm for that outcome. What a freak.
Frankensteinbeck
@Martin:
Where do you get the ‘virtually no immunity’ part? I can’t find it, but most references are swamped with 19. From what I’m seeing there are no vaccines because A) The 4 that are common are considered too weak to bother vaccinating, B) MERS has an incredibly low infection rate, even though it’s very deadly. That really slows down developing a vaccine, so they’re only getting vaccines now, and C) SARS was gone in a year, rendering the question moot. There’s no reason to think coronaviruses can’t be vaccinated, and MERS and SARS gave us the background knowledge needed to get started on 19.
Uncle Cosmo
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Skippy-san (whoever the fuck he is) sounds like just another Dunning-Kruger “progressive”** – convinced he understands everything when he doesn’t understand a fucking thing. He couldn’t carry John Scalzi’s pencil case.
** Yeah, we have ’em – a lot fewer than the knuckledragging mouthbreathers on the other side of the aisle, but even so…
Mandalay
@Martin:
When the “loan” isn’t really a loan at all, because it will be completely forgiven under conditions that many small businesses (and even large business like Ruth’s Chris) will be happy to comply with …
J R in WV
@Martin:
I think all the the Small Business loans are automatically “forgiven” — in other words, a gift. I could be wrong, happens all the time. But I do read a lot, and I don’t fabricate thoughts….
Martin
@debbie: I’m not sure we could get to 1 if we wait until then. I’m not sure we can get to 1 now. At some point it’s sufficiently widespread that you just can’t get it back to 0 without shutting down even critical businesses.
Martin
@Mandalay: Ok, yeah, in that case, you can get rich off of that…
lgerard
@Martin:
see: trump. fred
Fair Economist
@Martin: South Korea, Iceland, Taiwan, and Hong Kong all show it’s possible to contain this virus without draconian surveillance.
No human coronavirus has justified a vaccine, but their is one for bovine coronavirus, so you can be pretty confident it can be done in people.
Achrachno
@Ksmiami:
Trials of GOP: crimes against humanity, — Is that on the books here, or do we need to drag them to The Hague? I’d be OK with that if we can do it. Can we get a bulk deal by including W, Cheney, and that bunch?
depraved indifference — might be tricky, because too squishy. Probably need concrete examples to get convictions.
profiteering — is that even a crime here? More of a virtue locally I’d have thought.
fomenting violence, –absolutely
RICO — yes, please
Hangings- kill or imprison the worst. — OK, but we need to do this legally with specific charges and fair trials. Not that they believe in fair trials.
Seize assets, — OK, and raise taxes to flatten the wealth disparities
outlaw the GOP as a criminal terrorist organization. — OK, but we’ll need the RICO investigations and convictions first
Re-education camps – not camps per se but reintroduce truth and civics into schools— absolutely!
private schools get fined if they promote BS. — Might be tricky. Free speech and all that. We could just have tight standards for recognizing their degrees. Make sure graduates of East Jesus H.S. can’t get into any decent college without remedial work. And that Liberty U. grads can’t get work anywhere because of their trash degrees.
Finally- there is no reason Churches should be exempted from taxation- this is partially why the Evangelicals and Catholic Churches have been allowed to get away with so much. If you are on American soil, you pay taxes and you obey the laws
— I agree, but we’re not to a point where we can win that taxation fight, IMO. Let’s work first on the worst ones, those that nobody likes. After the country has secularized more we can fight those bigger battles.
J R in WV
@Skippy-san:
Here is what Scalzi said:
Skippi-san can not read for meaning, is the take away here. Nothing more, nothing less. He can’t understand the meaning of the “have not been” and has reveald himself to be a total ass.
Welcome to the Pie Safe, Skippi-ass !!
debbie
@Martin:
I’m convinced states trying to open will be shut back down. I just don’t see any way of getting around Trump
ETA: At least until he sees his supporters are dying too.
PersistentIllusion
@J R in WV: My father came home from WWII with a taste for gin and tonics. He told his teetotaling grandmother (who raised him) it was medicine to treat his malaria.
Fair Economist
Unfortunately, new high in US deaths today, according to Worldometer. 2,516 and their day is not quite done. Nobody’s going to be “opening up” May 1st, that’s for sure.
chopper
@Frankensteinbeck:
sars didn’t “disappear” enough to make it moot. they were working on a vaccine for over 10 years. cause sars doesn’t only infect humans, and anything with an animal reservoir can come back at any time. they just didn’t have luck getting a vaccine to take.
PersistentIllusion
@Uncle Cosmo: Agreed, major Scalzi fan here. Halfway through his new book. Mentioned I liked it on Twitter and he responded to me. swoon Sorry Kristy.
Kent
And what do you wanna bet the enforcement and auditing by the IRS of the full employment mandate for loan forgiveness will be zip to nothing. Companies like Ruth’s Chris probably already take that for granted. They can pocket their $20 million, do whatever the fuck they want, and the IRS will NEVER come to check.
Jay Noble
@Leto: This from Kos puts some actual facts to this such as Sweden’s population is nearly double that of the othe Scandinavian countries. You do need to scroll a bit to get to the meat of the post.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/4/13/1936788/-The-facts-about-how-Sweden-is-battling-the-corona-virus-pandemic?utm_campaign=trending
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Achrachno:
I don’t think Slab City*(featured in a recent OTR) has a high school.
*East Jesus is in Slab City.
japa21
@Jay Noble: Basically, Sweden’s death rate is more than double the other Scandinavian country.
Achrachno
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I know, I go through there periodically. It’s sort of an eastern suburb.
Fair Economist
@japa21: Sweden’s rate is triple Demark and even more other Scandanavian countries.
J R in WV
@PersistentIllusion:
My uncle, whom I really liked, handsome, strong, capable, self-medicated with bourbon. Woke up screaming at 2 or 3 am, taken to the ER where they could help calm him down.
He used to always tell a racist joke when we went to their home, to “get” my more liberal folks. But I totally forgave him when my other cousin came to visit with her partner, a beautiful black choir singer. The end of peculiar jokes, because he loved his only niece. Enough said.
From reading about the bomber fleet in the Pacific, I’m sure he saw his crew mates shot to rags by Zeros or AA flak from surface ships as they made their final runs over Imperial Japan; repeatedly. He was a belly turret gunner. Perhaps the most dangerous task on a heavy bomber, hanging off the belly of that giant warplane.
After my mom died, followed by my dad 7 years later, we went through Mom’s things. There we found my uncle’s silver wings, which he gave to his little sister after he got back from that war. I immediately gave them to my cousin, his son, who came along 20 years later on.
I suspect Uncle couldn’t stand to see them again. War is Hell. And we are in it right now.
None of my uncles talked about the war much. My dad volunteered, but at the induction center the doctors decided he had a heart murmur, which made him 4F. May have saved his life, and mine.
I’m sure many families had all the male members volunteer. This is hard to think about, to type. War is Hell and we are in it….
My cousin, his only child, and I are really close now, and I totally hate the social distance we are religiously following. He’s about 11 years younger than I, but we have a lot in common, including John Prine, RIP.
RSA
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I don’t know what Dr. Oz had in mind, but here’s the Lancet article he was probably thinking of:
That is, Ferguson et al. were talking about percentages of the death toll rather than percentages of the total population. Not that this makes a difference to Trump and his supporters, of course; I think they’d find millions of deaths acceptable if it saved the economy.
Frankensteinbeck
@chopper:
No infections in 16 years really slows down development.
Elie
And please do not forget the number of people who are NOT getting health care right now — not sick enough to service in an already jammed system. Wonder what their excess mortality will be?
My sister was fortunate enough to have her emergency treated in a large medical center in Chicago. She was lucky. Not sure she would have been in a rural or underserved area…
She is lucky, but has been in surgical ICU and I have been unable to see or touch her in person. I am very very sad about that, but I have to weigh the whole situation.
What a time this is.
rikyrah
Maddow reporting now that the cluster in South Dakota – that meat packing plant is now up to 777. They haven’t even tested everyone.
Total number of hospital beds in South Dakota.
2300
2300????
But still, no stay at home order from their idiot Governor.
rikyrah
Grand Rapids, Nebraska has an COVID-19 per capita infection rate on par with Louisiana…
only has 1 hospital…
and the Governor still won’t do a stay at home order
And……
is going to open up a muthaphuckin’ MALL next week.
sdhays
@rikyrah: Rural medicine has never been very good, and we have been gutting it now for decades. It is not up to handling anything like what’s coming.
joel hanes
@Jay Noble:
http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/\
Third graph down.
Set for “Total deaths” and highlight Sweden
Their approach is looking pretty bad — similar trajectory to UK and Italy, and much worse than other Scandanavian countries.
EmanG
@Uncle Jeffy: well played sir.
Bill Arnold
Curious. Dr Oz mentions this short Lancet (Child and Adolescent Health) article:
Pandemic school closures: risks and opportunities (April 08, 20200, no author listed)
Which in turn says “a modelling study by Ferguson and colleagues concluded that in the UK, school closures alone will reduce COVID-19 deaths by only 2–4%.”
And if one looks at the Ferguson article, it has long tables for various R0 values and “on triggers” comparing various combinations of measures. The only 2-4% I see is comparing doing nothing at all with closing schools. In combination with other measures, the reduction in death rate is an order of magnitude higher. (Perhaps I’m misreading the tables.)
So Dr Oz was lazy and gullible, suckered by a misleading Lancet piece. IMO.
Report 9: Impact of non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) to reduce COVID-19 mortality and healthcare demand (pdf, 16 March 2020, Neil M Ferguson et al)
MoCA Ace
Willingly, no. But that’s not the calculation they are doing is it?
LongHairedWeirdo
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
To be excruciatingly fair, he seems to be saying “if we were going to lose 100,000 people, without sending kids to school, sending the kids to school might result in an additional 2-3,000 deaths.” That is, he seems to be saying we’ll add 2-3% to the total number of deaths – not that we’d lose 2-3% of the populace.
Please note: I AM NOT DEFENDING HIM! I’m clarifying the numbers about which I believe he was speaking. He’s still being a stupid, heartless, Oz-hole, just, you know, not a Trump.
laura
@germy: don’t make me remind you of son of dr. Phil’s sad mansion of doom (or so one could opine) currently for sale in the 90210 which he described as: The whole place, the idea is kind of Tim Burton threw up on a canvas and it turned into a house. The guy that raised that entitled vapid coaster could surely be the guy that casually dismissed the lives of others as an acceptable sacrifice to the market for the benefit of their better – the money and power people.
ziggy
This thread is probably old and crusty, but has anyone seen the studies on seroconversion/Covid-19 antibody prevalence? One from Santa Clara County in CA that indicates a past infection rate 80 times higher than reported! Or the one from Chelsea, MA with 30% of those tested showing antibodies! Combine that with the results from the Teddy Roosevelt showing 60% of those with on board with Covid are asymptomatic. Then on top of that, more evidence emerging that some of those previously testing negative are becoming positive again.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/17/health/santa-clara-coronavirus-infections-study/index.html
https://www.navytimes.com/news/coronavirus/2020/04/16/secdef-majority-of-roosevelt-sailors-with-covid-19-are-asymptomatic-flattop-still-wartime-ready/
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/04/17/business/nearly-third-200-blood-samples-taken-chelsea-show-exposure-coronavirus/
If these levels of prevalence and asymptomatic presentation hold out, this is really mind-blowing stuff! I can’t imagine how something like this could be contained. We truly would have to come up with a completely different management theory and procedures to implement that.
Raoul
The other day on the twittbox, an exasperated person asked on a thread where I thanked Gov. Walz “why does he get to decide to not let doctors see elective patients?” To which I said, well he won an election. But I hadn’t really thought about the herrenvolk aspect.
Never mind that Walz is a military veteran and was for a long time a small town teacher and football coach. He’s a Democrat, so his herren don’t volk (to just make up some late evening nonsense).
patrick II
@Kent:
I am not sure you are counting the babysitting for parents when they go back to work in your analysis of school productivity.
TriassicSands
@Uncle Cosmo:
i wrote a much longer response to your overwrought comment but somehow it got eaten. The shorter answer is you are wrong. Read Section 4.
The reason I think it would be the best way to remove Trump is precisely because it requires so many votes, including Republicans, that it would carry weight that impeachment wouldn’t have. I don’t believe for a second that a thoroughly corrupt GOP and a cabinet filled with corrupt bootlicking toadies would ever get it done. And the SCOTUS could nullify it. But the power and message would be overwhelming.
So, stop shouting and read Section 4.
yellowdog
@Skippy-san: What is fucked up about Scalzi’s tweet? Why do you hate him? He’s a very progressive person and a very good science fiction writer. I follow him on Twitter and I’ve never read anything questionable from him.