Brian Kemp is giving a press conference wherein he is outlining how Georgia is going to reopen its economy (despite the fact that we are testing a TINY speck of the population) and there is a loud ambulance siren in the background, which is just a little too on the nose
— Hannah Riley (@hannahcrileyy) April 20, 2020
Just call Covid19 “General Sherman” because it’s about to burn through Georgia again.
— RevDJEsq (@RevDJEsq) April 20, 2020
Governor Kemp announces gyms, barbers, nail salons and more will be allowed to reopen on Friday pic.twitter.com/zowGvQ2Fyb
— Justin Gray (@JustinGrayWSB) April 20, 2020
Houses of worship will he allowed to open to in person services
— Justin Gray (@JustinGrayWSB) April 20, 2020
IOW, lobbyists for gyms, salons, bowling alleys (?), & restaurants convinced Kemp to compound public heath risks & permit employers to force employees to expose themselves to coronavirus or be fired, so workers lose unemployment benefits & lower employers’ payments to the fund https://t.co/CF6QhKPxrT
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) April 20, 2020
I suspect there’s not much pressure on governors to “open the economy” coming from workers who’d potentially be exposed to coronavirus, but that there’s tremendous pressure from industries that want to expose their employees to coronavirus if it helps stave off bankruptcy.
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) April 20, 2020
I originally assumed that Kemp, having stolen his seat with the considerable assistance of the RNC, was just determined to smash’n’grab whatever he could reach before he has to flee for sanctuary to Mar-A-Largo and the full-time Trump-sycophant sinecure for which he’s been so publicly auditioning. But Georgia local & revered jackal Raven linked to a Decaturish letter from public policy advocate George Chidi, which supports Dana Houle’s tweets:
… Kemp is looking forward to the fiscal discussion in 2021 and 2022, when all of this really starts to hit. He got elected by out-yahooing the field. His base has been trained to view government spending as a crime, and he knows that he becomes politically vulnerable to an attack if he raises taxes. He is not capable of delivering a nuanced message around necessity, because his base doesn’t know how to hear it.
The state is staring at one million unemployment applications. It probably cannot pay those over six months. The unemployment fund has a reserve of about $2.6 billion. Last week it paid out about $42 million — which is about three times as much as it usually does. That figure will double in two weeks, give or take. Maybe more.
At that rate, the fund is empty in about 28 weeks. Probably less. Even if things improve later, that fund will run dry in a year, because unemployment isn’t going to return to 5 percent for a long time…
If there’s no state order calling for businesses to be closed, the people who are unemployed can no longer claim that their unemployment is involuntary, even if it would be utter idiocy for them to return to work. A hairdresser or a massage therapist cannot maintain social distance. But they can certainly file for relief … unless the law says they can work.
“Gyms, fitness centers, bowling alleys, body art studios, barbers, cosmetologists, hair designers, nail care artists, estheticians, their respective schools & massage therapists.”
Not banks. Not software firms. Not factories. Not schools.
It is no coincidence that the businesses on this list are staffed by relatively poor people. Because that’s who he wants off the unemployment rolls. And if they die … well, they’re mostly black people, or Asian, and poor, and an acceptable political loss for a Republican governor…
Georgia’s fervently pro-Trump governor’s early breakout from a coronavirus shutdown is stirring fears of a deadly new wave of infections and warnings that he is derelict in his duty and acting on political motives | Analysis by @StCollinson https://t.co/gf6cgD6Sdm
— CNN (@CNN) April 21, 2020
We closed down April 1 with Kemp saying he was just *now* learning about asymptotic transmission ??. I’m not very confident in his data driven decision making process.
— Bpdshelter in place (@bpdshit1) April 21, 2020
A view of the GA governor’s decision from the front lines of hospital healthcare here. https://t.co/t6ImW5teey
— Maryn McKenna (@marynmck) April 21, 2020
Dumb? Venal? Easily led?…
Or, since we’re talking about Georgia and Brian Kemp here, “democracy”
— Scott Lemieux (@LemieuxLGM) April 20, 2020
The riskiness of Gov. Brian Kemp’s decision to reopen Georgia business so soon after shutdown was made clear by the fact that he put Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan and House Speaker David Ralston in front of the cameras. If it backfires, the governor won’t be the only one on the hook.
— Jim Galloway (@politicalinsidr) April 20, 2020
Georgia’s #Covid numbers don’t meet the 1st gating criterion. Cases trending up?? @GovKemp, if disease transmission picks up after a rush to lift interventions, GA would pay the full cost of interventions w/out the benefit, esp. if you return to lock down. ~18k cases, 726 deaths. pic.twitter.com/3Lj6WOGdlH
— Thomas P. Bossert (@TomBossert) April 20, 2020
Betcha a store-bought cookie Guv Kemp ain’t gonna be dropping in for the unlimited refills at Chik-Fil-A, though!
Seriously, though: Georgia has had one of the most serious outbreaks in the country (around Albany.) Why this would strike anyone as a good idea after that experience is a TOTAL mystery.
— hilzoy (@hilzoy) April 20, 2020
We aren’t ready.
And fact that now local governments can’t put their own restrictions in place is ridiculous. One of the reasons that metro-Atlanta did not see higher numbers of #COVID19 is bc of local leaders acting before the governor would.
Now their hands are tied. https://t.co/4B3U0yLJ5y
— Jen Jordan (@senatorjen) April 20, 2020
“I will continue to use my voice as mayor of Atlanta to ask people to continue to stay home, follow the science and exercise common sense,” Atlanta Mayor @KeishaBottoms says on @ABCNewsLive. https://t.co/cSopoNm7SP pic.twitter.com/tl6LE2Xnas
— ABC News Live (@ABCNewsLive) April 21, 2020
Whether or not movie theaters are technically open, I suspect fewer people are willing to risk choking to death alone to watch BATMAN V. ROBIN V. JAR JAR BINKS XI than Brian Kemp thinks https://t.co/T71GnI2jwY
— Scott Lemieux (@LemieuxLGM) April 21, 2020
Social distancing in Georgia. Starting Friday. pic.twitter.com/lAhyoWF39W
— Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) April 20, 2020
Death cult gonna death cult. https://t.co/100YOoBmNm
— Peter Wolf (@peterawolf) April 20, 2020
From death panels to death perms. #LostDecade
So, we have an experiment. Here’s the coal mine, here’s the canary, here’s the methane. And, just to make things interesting, here’s a lighted match.
That lighted match is to be able to see what is going in the coal mine, or their heads up their asses, I’d imagine it’s dark in either place. Just because there is a little methane is no reason to be in the dark…… or pig ignorant.
Also, while Kemp may be able to declare movie theaters open, he can’t force movie studios to release anything. Good luck opening the theaters without any new movies to show in them.
I would be really interested for someone to explain to me how you observe social distancing at a tattoo parlor. Remote control, sort of like X-box?
Pro-Life my ass.
I have to disagree with ALL the blame to the Governor. There is another co-equal branch of government in Georgia that is doing nothing to reverse this decision. Go ask the GOP legislators what they think about this. Get them all on record. This is a group effort in the same way the GOP in Washington is joining Trump in his (in)action. The whole lot of them need to own this. If only there was an institution in Atlanta with access to mics and reporters.
How many people are going to die in Georgia, and elsewhere, because Kemp was allowed to blatantly steal the election from Stacey Abrams without anyone anywhere in the system being willing to stop him. Literally steal it. In America. Appalling.
Dorothy A. Winsor
As I look at the country and think we could have had Hilary Clinton, I look at Georgia and think they could have had Stacy Abrams.
The virus will make any argument there is to be made.
@Roger Moore: Free advertising! It will be the new thing.
I would have expected Florida or Texas to do this first.
The flaw in Kemp’s theory about unemployment is that most of these businesses will reopen to next to no business, and thus will shortly go out of business, putting their workforce back on unemployment. If they reopen, they have to pay rent and their other fixed expenses, utilities, insurance, etc. It’s not a magic wand driving customers into their premises. I mean, who in Atlanta or Macon has been jonesing for a tattoo the last six weeks?
It’s going to be fun (okay, fun isn’t really the right word) to see all the gaslighting the GOP will do after the inevitable second wave hits and the fatalities creep over 100k, because you just know that’s coming.
The Thin Black Duke
Years ago, slaveowners had no problem working black people to death because they saw them as disposable tools to be thrown away when no longer useful. Some things never change.
Florida did open up the beaches?
Mike in NC
They can play “Gone with the Wind” all day long to empty seats. Nothing bad happened to Georgia in that one, right?
Nothing less than premeditated murder.
@The Thin Black Duke:
Or they really, really want things to go backwards 150+ years.
@rikyrah: I honestly believe that if people were careful, beaches and parks could be relatively safe venues for recreation — certainly more so than a bowling alley or gym.
Venality is too mild a word. Sociopathy, cruelty, one can find many ways to describe this behavior and still not fathom the depths of their depravity. Back to work for the serfs, who are expendable and replaceable, but gilded sanctuaries for workers in the real (read, entitled) economy.
You have to wonder if these sociopaths have looked at the disparities in who has been affected and see an opportunity to do the social engineering of their fantasies, culling out the “takers” while the “makers” in the FIRE sector can continue to “work” from the comfort and safety of their home offices. Feature, not a bug. Chidi is dead on, they don’t give a damn whether this actually increases economic activity.
The unemployment rolls won’t magically diminish when the state “reopens.” Even the most wingnutty business won’t stay open if too few people show up. Sensible businesses won’t open up until it is reasonably safe and customers are ready to venture out again. If businesses aren’t bringing people back, they stay on unemployment.
I don’t know if you know about this. But, Naomi Campbell is doing a series on YouTube called Naomi Unfiltered.
Yesterday’s guests were Venus and Serena.
Though we may have to erect a monument to the poor saps who are killed by this ridiculous order. If experts are right, in 2-3 weeks GA will see a huge spike in cases, hospitalizations and deaths, hopefully demonstrating to the rest of the states that opening too early and unprepared is a BAD idea. Sadly it will be too late for the hair dressers and church-goers in GA, but maybe they’ll have died for a noble cause?
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, but a lot of these businesses are one-man or family operations, or gig-economy stuff. The idea is to create the illusion that things are “normal” which makes it harder to do special compensation for people who fall through the cracks for unemployment insurance and other benefits. Informal economy in Italy is having a big problem with this.
@Hoodie: Good point. I was thinking of the people who are normally within the UI system.
@The Thin Black Duke: Oh no, slave owners took very good care of their slaves. The best food, the best housing, the best clothing, the best healthcare, etc etc. So said the guide on the plantation tour I took and she was a very nice older lady. I’m sure she would never lie to me.
They could, too bad about the lack of careful people.
@OzarkHillbilly: And the inability to wash your hands with soap!
This will be an interesting experiment, especially since many of these businesses seem exactly the type that should remain closed. I am not sure how these places can actually maintain social distance, even if required.
And fitness centers? I recall reading news stories about a cluster of virus cases at gyms in Japan. Bodies in close proximity, staff moving around customers, making it easy for the virus to infect people.
The governor says they will be on the alert for hotspots. They may be overestimating their ability to contain a significant outbreak.
It will also be interesting to see how many people roll the dice and put their lives at risk.
Should we have mandatory testing for Georgia residents who travel to other states?
ETA. Repost from an earlier thread.
@OzarkHillbilly: “Assume a spherical cow…”
BY THE TIME THE HOTSPOT MAKES ITSELF APPARENT IT’S TOO LATE!
GodDAMN these people are dumb.
Pastor facing arrest warrant for allegedly backing his church bus toward a protester over coronavirus
@natem: That’s coming whether things reopen or not.
There is a reason I could never live in Georgia.
@Omnes Omnibus: The whole Trump effort is about creating an illusion that things are rapidly returning to normal in order to (1) minimize the blame put on Trump for failing to act in February and March and (2) blame Dem (and blue state Rep) governors for the recession. In addition, try to characterize all the low-paid workers who are the victims of this as a bunch of whining snowflakes who are not like the brave, DeVos supported cosplay patriots blocking hospital entrances. They know that they’ll have to give in to a bunch of socialism if they actually wanted to do anything to address the problem and, anyway, they’re too damn corrupt and incompetent to do anything in that vein other than the quick smash and grab they’ve already been doing. It’s not a strategy that has a high likelihood of success, but they’ve always counted on the short attention span of the general public to make plays like this work. It’s what they’ve got and they’re going with it.
That’s a big if.
I dont wonder.
I have very little doubt.
@JMG: Plus, isn’t the federal government likely to backstop a LOT of state unemployment insurance funds? They are already doing that by funding larger payments than the stingy states.
On the other hand, the present GOP opposition to helping state and local governments – for Trump’s extortion to work – is not encouraging.
We can hope that Pelosi and Schumer will win the negotiations for the next bill.
China experimented with opening their movie theaters for a while.
And then they closed them down again.
Orange Tyrant wants to stop all immigration via executive order. I am only surprised that it took him this long to blame his favorite object of ire and derision.
Schumer says deal in place to boost spending for small businesses and virus testing, but GOP urges caution
A nearly $500 billion package to replenish a small business lending program and provide billions for hospitals and testing may head to a vote in the Senate on Tuesday afternoon. Lawmakers and the Trump administration are still trying to finalize it.
I just want to say that compared with a nail salon, a bowling alley at least allows the possibility of maintaining distance. Although the point of many bowling alleys seems to be sharing secondhand cigarette smoke.
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: Here in RI, the state beaches are technically open, but the parking lots are closed, and the access roads are controlled by the towns, not the state, so they’ve banned on-street parking. So I guess if you can find any place to park, you can walk or ride your bike to the beach. That will keep the crowds manageable
ETA: Well, add the fact that the current air temperature and water temperature are about 45F, that keeps the crowds down too.
Couldn’t any laid off / or fired workers just claim they are gig workers for the present version of expanded UI paid for by the Federal government?
@Hoodie: exactly right.
Or as the always-relevant Catherine Rampell puts it, “trumpov has almost nothing to lose”
@blacque_jacques: It is a competition among Red States to see how many people they don’t like is going to get killed.
I’d have had my money on either of those, but no: Georgia edges up. Which means, when it comes to blatant sociopathic valuing money over lives, you gotta bet on the Confederacy.
My primary income while living here in Atlanta has been contracted to play music at the Airport (a ghost town) and the Marta Subway system (no customers). I’d like to see the illegal governor convince them to re-open…
I just saw that article. Isn’t it nice to know that other political systems are just as disfunctional – or worse– than ours, in terms of facing the reality that gig workers ( or the informal economy) need to be supported by federal bailout funds.
This is wrong on a number of levels. The governor is a fool if he believes that he is primarily putting poor people at risk. As an aside, many of the people who own these businesses and work on site are not poor, so even some of the people writing about this are idiots.
But the very larger issue is that these fools do not understand how pandemics work. Again, let me refer to the cluster in Japan in sports gyms and compare that to fitness centers. And let me add the following.
In Pasadena, California, every death from the virus involves nursing homes. In some of the cases, the deaths are spread equally among staff and patients.
The unprotected staff moved about coming in contact with patients.
Not all that different from what happens in fitness centers and nail salons. And in fitness centers people are sweaty and exhaling.
And even if you wrongly assume that the staff is mainly poor, the customers are not.
So again, these businesses may be the best selected to insure that the virus gets recirculated throughout the state.
@Gin & Tonic:
It only takes one butthead beachgoer who’s an asymptomatic carrier. I’d rather not trust a stranger’s willingness to main social distance unless I really had to, and no one really has to go to the beach.
Not to be outdone…
Trump-humpers like DeSantis and Kemp will double-down on stupidity and fecklessness like their idol because that’s their only play. The rest of us will pay the price.
if Trump loses the election in November, the time until January 20 will be especially dangerous.
Via Rick Wilson, this is just brilliant.
Or, to paraphrase one of the great philosophers of our time, if people don’t want to come to the tattoo parlor, nobody can stop them.
@natem: It doesn’t sound like they’ve really finished their first wave.
You nailed it.
Also, Trump is a peculiarly small minded man. He keeps coming back to the same obsessions in the same way. The wall, keeping immigrants out, undoing any Obama policy.
And yet the professional pundit class keep looking for signs of growth and maturity in Trump. They keep giving him the benefit of the doubt, and he keeps demonstrating that he is mean spirited and dangerously incompetent.
Not for long. Trump has made it clear he doesn’t want to backstop state and local governments because he wants to force them to rescind their stay-at-home orders.
@Jeffro: Had not read her column, but that’s on the money. It’s very consistent with Trump’s past, he likes to gamble with other people’s money. However, the thing to keep in mind is that his “nothing to lose” is not that he’s acting out of desperation; he has never had to pay the price himself and, even now, he probably thinks (not without reason) that the worst thing that could happen to him is not getting re-elected. It’s less about “nothing to lose” and more “everything to gain without any risk” because he has no fear of judgement. Anyone else might be wracked with guilt and loss of face from having a hand in so much avoidable death and destruction. He can always go back to his golden toilets and some Hollywood scumbag might even give him another reality TV gig.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
She seemed overprepared though. As Scarborough was noting this morning, he only thinks about escaping his next moment, and never actually plans. Isn’t that a better way? So disruptive to the old paradigms of thinking that public policy should be planned for, that contingencies are important.
Lead with an ample gut, I always say.
@rikyrah: just Jacksonville/Duval county around here. Folks in the adjacent counties are furious. The officials had agreed to work out an opening criteria and work together. Jacksonville folded. Nassau Co./ Fernandina Beach has some good emergency management people. They say we have not come close to meeting the 7 reopening criteria so our beaches stay closed. They are getting very strong support from most of the locals. Of course DeSantis could do to us what Kemp did to Atlanta and Athens. We’ll find out soon.
I think this “reopening” will be a flat failure. Nail salons, hair salons, gyms and others rely on the trade for events-graduations, weddings, some funerals. Without these events, there’s no money to be made, because there are no customers. The remainder of the business is high-end business stuff like interviews and offices All are working at home, hiring via Zoom, or just closed. Whose left? And he forgets that trust has to go both ways. How many customers are going to trust that a stylist or operator is free from corona? On the cleanliness of the place they are going to? Even if you do appointments, sometimes the way to make daily rent is to take a walk-in or two when an appointment or several fall through. No way to screen customers for that.
Movie houses? Stay home and watch Netflix or Pay For View. People were already doing a lot of that anyway, and going to movies is mostly an event for opening week of a highly anticipated release. With covid, a lot of studios are just going to Netflix for releases. So so much for going to the cold, dark movie house. And as what others have said, studios aren’t going to release to theaters and take the responsibility or risk for infections.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
I’m surprised that nobody smacked her for that.
But his entire behavior is making a massive resurgence more likely.
That article, like many others, gives Trump more credit than he deserves. There’s no strategy, there’s only chaos.
@germy: They really are determined to reveal themselves in all their transcendent moral glory, aren’t they.
Disney executives are cold blooded. Ice cold. I can’t imagine them putting visitors to their theme parks at risk or letting the Disney brand be associated in any way with endangering children. Disney’s spirit animal is Scrooge McDuck, sitting on a mountain of cash. I don’t see them letting a mere Florida governor fuck with their money.
There is a reason I could never live in Georgia.
Right now, all else being equal, had I stayed in my home state, I would be struggling to get onto UI insurance, and in the extremely unlikely change of me getting it, it would be literally half the money and half the time my blue state gives me.
Constantly worried that the Republican governor would order us to open up again and I’d have to play Your Money or Your Life.
Knowing I wouldn’t have a frozen bat in hell’s chance of getting medical care should I need it.
And my health insurance is gone in any case.
Yes. Fleeing the Confederacy is always a good move.
These are “pro life” politicians – but not if it costs (them) money.
@CarolDuhart2: They know that, you just have to look at Sweden, for example. No stay at home orders, but theaters, restaurants, etc. down 90%. The point is blame-shifting. They want to blame the empty movie houses on fear-mongering by liberals.
@MattF: That is great! That’s what he sounds like!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
in last night’s Follies, trump claimed he hadn’t left the White House in “months”, Yamiche Alcindor pointed out he held a rally in March. A couple hours later:
then this morning:
Alcindor put a big grain of sand in the folds of his diseased brain, and the pressure made these shit pearls to make him feel better about himself, and show his ass to the rest of us
I think there’s another important motivating factor: Trump himself wants to get out. He was recently complaining about having spent the last month in the White House. I think he’s getting stir crazy. He wants to go golfing, hang out at Mar-a-Lago with his sycophants, and hold his Nuremberg rallies rather than deal with an ongoing serious problem with no end in sight. Reopening everything is as much about relieving Trump’s boredom and cabin fever as it is about electoral calculations.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Kentucky ducked a serious bullet when it elected Andy Beshear. The guy is getting knocked as “Mr Rogers” by wingnut circles, where they keep forgetting that Fred Rogers is revered for kindness. Beshear comes off as empathetic, thoughtful, and from their own little theological chunk of the world. He’s got crossover that guys like Greg Fischer (Louisville’s mayor) can’t because he doesn’t talk evangelical (Fischer is a Greek Orthodox convert by marriage).
Were the last asshole still in place, Kentucky’s orders would have looked worse than Florida’s.
@Hoodie: They can blame, but blame doesn’t pay the rent. If there are no-or too few customers, they have to close order or no. And they know if their name is associated with Corona spread or dead people, they simply have to forever go out of business. Far better to file for unemployment and wait this out. I mean, if you do go out of business, assuming you haven’t already done so, you can start over. It’s not that hard to restart a barber or beauty salon. Even a bowling alley can restart, especially since there will be a lot of them priced low enough to rebuy.
The GOP politicians are flailing around for something, anything, to be able to argue that the coming ~ 25% unemployment numbers are wrong and that things are on the upswing and they’re doing a great job – certainly better than those Demonrats who want Open Borders for the Invisible Horde…
It’s all about finding a way to deflect blame.
“It’s the evil Demonrats who are keeping the economy locked down over some fake virus that’s no worse than drowning in a bathtub. We’re opening up America for Business!!11”
Meanwhile, they’re refusing to actually do their jobs (ensure adequate surveillance of outbreaks, testing, tracking, planning for future waves, working together to make the systems work better, etc.).
And too many people will be fine with it.
I’ve read that the most dangerous time for a victim of domestic abuse is the interval between when they’ve decided to leave their abuser and when they act. Unfortunately, the Constitution defines the interval when we have to remain with our abuser if we decide to get rid of him.
And THIS is nothing but TRUTH
“And in fitness centers people are sweaty and exhaling.”
Not to mention have fans running, making sure that everything in the air gets nicely dispersed throughout the room.
But this is just preaching to the choir; it isn’t going to change any minds. The people who are currently staying away from those places voluntarily aren’t going to suddenly start believing it’s all liberal fearmongering when they themselves have already accepted it. The only people who will buy that explanation are people who already believe it’s all a liberal plot.
There is no guarantee that these business will be rehiring laid off employees. No doubt they will wait to see how many people actually show up. And even if these service workers are poor, their customers frequently are not.
BTW no one has a fucking clue what this “immigration ban” means.
I will never ever forgive the people who voted this disaster into office and those who stood on the sidelines protecting their purity instead of voting for “that woman”
Not only did he sit, but he swam in it! Just like the Disney executives.
@Roger Moore: I have been thinking about this. If I lived in Georgia I still wouldn’t go back to work, but would continue working remotely, so all the lunch places and coffee shops that I go to would still be sucking wind. I sure as hell would not visit a nail salon, or a fitness center. I might go to my neighborhood restaurant if it were not busy, and would take out if it were.
We don’t know what it means as policy, but we do know what it means politically: Trump is running scared. He always retreats to racism and nationalism when he feels politically threatened.
Me neither. But I might suppress my anger and pretend to forgive from time to time if expedient when trying to cajole some purity ponies back to the polls to vote for Democrats. Especially if they happen to be my kids.
I didn’t think that article was giving trumpov more credit than he deserves…this kind of dumb hail-mary-using-other-people’s-lives is right up his alley. It’s not a strategy, it’s just his only option left.
If they’re going to continue these dumb substitute hate rallies that he calls press conferences, hopefully some enterprising reporter will ask him that. Get him on record, right now: “What will you do – what will your guidance be – if the states that ‘open up’ early see huge spikes in infections?”
Also: “where are the tests, motherfucker?”
@Roger Moore: There are GC holders stuck in different countries, there are people who have various applications pending.This creates an unnecessary anxiety in an already tense situation.
But for both the MAGA peeps and the cosplay socialists, immigrants are not people. So they don’t care.
This panic politics affects lives.
It’s the chaos policy.
@Roger Moore: Yes, but isn’t that always what Trump has done? He is all base, all the time. His definition of success is getting enough mouth breathers to fill a small arena so he can claim how popular he is. It’s not likely to work, particularly now, but it’s all he’s got. He doesn’t know how to do anything other than bullshit, and he doesn’t really have to pay any meaningful price if he fails. The guy doesn’t have a soul, so there’s nothing for him to lose. At the risk of an incoming “fuck LBJ” from Raven, even LBJ seemed to bear the weight of his failure in Viet Nam. Sociopaths like Trump do not feel guilt.
@PST: I understand. My mother has turned into a Modi Bhakt.
@MattF: I know that but a tweet like this sends waves of panic among those immigrants who are here and adds to their uncertainty.
@MattF: Well done!!!
@Roger Moore: yeah, maybe…but his lizard brain has to know on some level that while it will feel good to get in front of 5,000 MAGAts and rant for a couple hours, it puts down a marker that would be hard to deny (even for him) later if/when infections in ‘re-opened’ areas tick up again.
As long as he has his substitute hate rallies /”press conferences” and his people have their dumb guns-and-Confederate-flags cosplay opportunities to publicly show their feverish (d’oh – see what I did there?) loyalty to him, I can’t see him getting out there like he used to. We’ll see.
One word. Disinheritance.
Assuming Georgia is as bad as NYC, about 12,000. I wait with bated breath to see if that is as bad as it can get or if it is just the beginning.
Gin & Tonic
@schrodingers_cat: Also sends waves of panic among those who are abroad but have an application in the pipeline. Those waves have kept my phone buzzing all morning.
At least Kemp can now go to a hair dresser when his hair gets mussed.
We need to work up a set of posters or Post Cards: Come Visit the Plague Pits! Take some pressure off Hawaii who doesn’t want the vector visitors anyway.
@Jeffro: Gov. Cuomo just gave the best explanation of the supply chain problem with testing. I hope he explains it to Trump, since he seems to think if the states have the testing machines he sent them, they can do as many tests as they want.
@Jeffro: He’ll still have rallies, except it will be 1984ish with him on a massive Jumbotron speaking to an arena full of idiots who are swapping virus particles while he’s safely ensconced at the WH or Mar-a-Lago.
I disagree on two levels:
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@The Thin Black Duke: Flip side of that is blacks are descendants of those slaves who figured out how to survive that abuse, unlike the white master class who is doubtlessly buying tickets on line see Micheal Bay’s Batman verses Jar Jar when the theaters reopen (were a blonde haired Batman uses gun to shoot the deadly plague virus that Jar Jar unleashes)
@schrodingers_cat: As somebody on the radio pointed out this morning, this virus is so dangerous that we must stop legal immigration but it apparently is not so bad that businesses can’t reopen.
Trump’s brain would be a horrible place to live.
@germy: Disney World just recently, furloughed a lot of its employees. There is no way they will want to open u.p.
Gin & Tonic
@germy: I’m sure all the GREAT American Citizens are lining up to pick strawberries.
@Gin & Tonic: Yes. Orange Ogre will walk it back significantly because this will kill the economy which is currently on a ventilator.
“And in fitness centers people are sweaty and exhaling.”
Great point. Even if you had some kind of social distancing, fitness centers might soon become Virus Central.
I recently had to go out to run some errands. I saw a young man near Pasadena Community College, bare chested and in shorts, jogging near the campus. He of course was not wearing the recommended mask.
Many young people think that they are immune to the virus and forget that they may be carriers. A good chunk of these people may be dumb enough to return to the gyms and fitness centers.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Hoodie: That’s the thing GA will have a spike, but it won’t be noticed next to New York because people only count total dead on deaths per capita. As others have pointed out Albany GA has higher death per capita like that of New York city, but because that’s only 66 people, no one cares.
@Brachiator: For Disney, the brand is everything. Someone pointed out here a month or so ago that there’s never been a virus outbreak on a Disney cruise ship, because they take care of those things so much better than the other cruise lines, who are just looking at the short term money. Because if all things go belly-up, you can rename Carnival cruiselines to Festival cruiselines and people will still come. But you can’t rename Disney.
@JMG: I guarantee you Kemp’s minions have paced this out to the day. There will be a time gap where a lot of people will not qualify for unemployment benefits prior to actual bankruptcies.
Think “evil” and multiply by “stupid” and raise to the power of “greed.”
@Roger Moore: As long as his hotels stay empty, they and the mingling events at Mar L. aren’t bringing in enough $. Ivanka’s spas are empty! And he’s losing the opportunities the family set up for people to pay money to their businesses for connections and favors. Are they also losing money laundering opportunities?
@WereBear: Yep. Will say this again. China is currently treating its citizens better than American Capitalists do…and they are in the process of rounding up millions of Muslims for a cultural if not actual genocide. So there you have it. Even a country committing a genocide looks more desirable than what the big bucks right wing has foisted on us.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Considering the group that’s most likely going to go to the theater is Evangelical and hard right conservatives, this is Kevin Sorbo’s moment! He has a full catalog of movies tailored to that demographic for any theater needing product.
That would be a bad take. A virus doesn’t stick to “poor neighborhoods”, and there are plenty of places the rich and the poor will mix and the virus will happily jump to any host foolish enough to expose themselves to it.
Atlanta will be overrun spread specially through the wingnut churches. It might initially hit the poor but it is definitely going to go through the batshit evangelical wing just as well and that’s a big money loss for grifters. Whatever Kemp thinks he’s doing, it will backfire. There is no play in the Republican and Trump playbook that is going to work.
You need to do what the Republican governors from Maryland and Ohio are doing. In the end, those governors are going to come out smelling like roses and might be serious Presidential contenders for the party.
@JMG: The more activity levels return to normal, the more hospital visits return to normal. Since pre-COVID hospital systems were already running at the max (because healthcare is run just like any other “free enterprise, market-based” ball of shit), adding in just a handful of hard ICU cases will be disastrous.
THAT is the problem, it’s the same one that was recognized early and resulted in the whole “flatten the curve” message, and it hasn’t gone away.
Staying in place is also is very difficult to deal with. I’ve got it GREAT compared to >90% of the people I know, but I’m still going bonkers occasionally. I don’t know how other people have been able to handle it so well.
The key thing with Disney is that they’re a premium brand. They understand their profitability depends on people seeing them as fundamentally different and better than the alternatives. Here in Southern California, you can get an annual pass to Knott’s Berry Farm or Universal Studios Hollywood for less than a single day pass to Disneyland. They can’t keep up that kind of price disparity if they don’t maintain their brand.
@CarolDuhart2: That’s the thing I don’t get. They’re throwing half a trillion dollars at businesses to cover expenses so they don’t go out of business permanently. In most cases, it is far more efficient to give people unemployment now so tbey don’t starve or lose their homes, then have massive subsidized loan programs to help businesses start again after it is safe. The buildings will be waiting to be occupied again. They’re not going anywhere.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
I have no doubt.
If it’s possible to wrap one’s brain around the concept that Trump has been holding back his worst impulses, then November-January would–at long last–treat us to The Real, Full, Most Awesome Trump There Ever Was.
God help us all.
On the upside, there would no longer be any reason for Stephen Miller to hide his authentic Nazi regalia. The uniform should be nicely pressed and ready to go.
Places like restaurants, nail salons, hair dressers, and gyms. They’re like the upper class British people in a murder mystery who are terribly surprised when the butler did it. They literally don’t see the poor people who make their lives work, so they can’t imagine that they might possibly contract coronavirus because the person who did their nails had it.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
The programs to keep businesses going have failed at their essential pupose – SBA mismanagement has choked them out, and rerouted the money which was to comfort the afflicted to the already comfortable.
That’s why there is so much desperation.
@rikyrah: Great Migration 2- Will dumb white fuckers ever learn?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Speaking of that, simple narcissist doesn’t explain that. Trump’s thinking makes a lore more sense if you think of him as a junkie; that lack of impulse control, conviction that what ever stupid idea in his head is awesome, mixed in with paranoia. I bet it will come out Trump is hooked on prescription drugs. Look how Trump likes quack doctors. Not to mention Trump’s bizarre obsession that drug cartels are the worsty thing ever.
Brad delong has a phrase something like marking expectations to the market. I argued with BJ commentors about 200k deaths being a reach in the US but now I’m not so sure.
I think you are right when you note that Trump doesn’t care about this and does not think things through.
In response to his reaction to the hurricane in Puerto Rico, people noted that Trump did not care about Latinos.
But in pandering to the “liberate” morons, and in his actions during the pandemic, Trump is showing that he doesn’t care about anyone, including his base.
He is bored with the pandemic. He is eager to have someone tell him “good job, Mr President,” so he can take a nap or go out and play a round of golf. In his tiny little brain, things are always perfect.
@schrodingers_cat: “The cruelty is the point.”
Exactly. In every southern state the older populations trend whiter and more Republican. They are painting a target on their base. Even if your 75 year old retiree doesn’t go to the gym or movies, the people they unavoidably come into contact with might be.
Nope, the slo-mo effects of COVID will make it much longer than that. For the next 2 weeks cases will continue to wane due to existing social distancing. Then they’ll start going up but it won’t be for another week or two that they get back to where they are now. Kemp will probably drag his feet for another week after that before giving in to reality and re-instituting stay-at-home. But then deaths will continue to increase for another 3 weeks due to the lag.
So the spike from this won’t peak until late June. Then we’ll probably see the long slow decline for 6-10 weeks from there.
Sorry, this is probably not right on many levels. “Market based” anything is not the main issue. Hospitals and health systems have been stressed to the max everywhere that virus cases have exploded, including every country with universal health care.
Most employed people get their health care and retirement benefits through their employer. Keeping people on the payroll as they are doing in most of Europe keeps all of that in place, as well as makes the transition back to full employment much quicker. Tossing everyone onto unemployment like we are doing tosses millions off health insurance. And will make it much more chaotic to return to full employment if all those employers have to go find new employees, get them trained up, and so forth.
Places like Germany are just paying employers to keep their employees on the payroll for the duration.
@rikyrah: Thank you!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Elliottg: my understanding is the higher estimates (~250K) were based on pre-distancing models. Widespread distancing changed the models, so people like Kemp and McMaster are declaring Mission Accomplished, so there will, I assume, be new models.
I agree. The media coverage of the beaches reopening in Jacksonville was really poor. People weren’t congregating, you had to keep moving, you couldn’t sit, or even bring a towel. In itself it wasn’t a reckless idea at all.
But the problem is that as soon as you say it’s safe to go on a beach in Jacksonville folks start asking why it’s not OK to go on a beach in Miami, and telling them that the risks are far higher when there are a hundred times more people on the beach doesn’t really fly.
It’s really important to persist with the message “we’re all in this together” as folks start getting antsy. That’s why it sucks that nobody at the WH press conferences wears a mask. It’s not that it would make them significantly less likely to be infected, but it would send an important message: “This shit is real! I’m a big shot mixing with other people and I’m wearing a mask, and you should as well“. But they don’t.
And that’s why it really sucks that Trump BRAGS that he won’t wear a mask. Of course what he doesn’t tell you is that everyone who gets near him has already been tested recently.
@Butch: Giant robotic arms like in the movie Dave.
They also make a giant sum of money with all the Disney-owned hotels and restaurants around the parks. And honestly probably 90% (wild ass guess) of their business is from out of state or out of the region. Disney isn’t going to make any money on local Orlando folks. They need the whole world to open back up and start getting full flights of tourists flying back into Orlando International before they can start making money again.
It’s entirely different from say a hair salon or movie theater.
@Patrianakos: Its a desirable side effect. The point is to destroy America and everything its stands for. Bring it to the level of Russia. A mobocracy.
J R in WV
Gosh, Now I just don’t know what to do!
Should I book Tix to fly to Atlanta to get tattoos and work out in the big gym?
Should I book Tix to JAX for fly to Florida to get tattoos and work out on the big Beach?? I can go bowling and get my hair done either place… I’m sure the food will be good at the great restaurants either place. Southern Iced Tea both places…
I Just Don’t Know What To DO?!?!?!
Maybe I should stay home, w/o a hair cut, or new tattoo, and be safe.
Dumb asses!! What do you think folks will do if no one wants to go out and party while their grandparents are in lockdown at the rest home? After the Gov. “OPENS” everything up and no one is out there to be a potentially infected customer… how long will it take for those businesses to reclose? One day? Two days?
So Many Sociopaths.
@Mandalay: This is what happened in early March when Oregon shut down most businesses but left the beaches open. Thousands of idle folks laid off from work decided to hit the beach. And I promise you that March in Oregon is not prime beach weather:
Parking lots were all full to overflowing and there was bumper to bumper traffic on the coastal roads. Local townspeople freaked the fuck out to see the hordes of city folk descending on their little coastal towns.
It wasn’t Fort Lauderdale Spring Break, but it was alarming.
@Mandalay: “We’re all in this together”. (Gasp.)
But that’s . . .socialist!
@Elliottg: SO far there are 788,920 COVID-19 cases in the U.S.
As of today there are about 42,458 deaths. There have been a total of 4,026,572 people tested in the U.S
We hit 40,000 deaths a day or two ago. I think but can not prove that we are not testing enough people and we are way under-counting deaths.
I think we could get to 200,000 deaths by the time we a done with this, but then again, how do we tell when we are done? Getting a vaccine that works takes time, then producing enough for everyone/everyone who hasn’t had the disease takes time. And does having the disease mean you will never get it again?
Remember the landlords. If these small business are given the go ahead to re-open, they won’t have any leverage to get rent reductions out of their landlords. Commercial real estate is where local rich people park money. Increasingly, Wall Street as well.
This downturn needs to put an end to the financialization of the economy. We’re already fucked, so drag the Delaware Corps out into the light, the shell companies, the offshore accounts, all of it.
I think this says it best:
@Searcher: And how about the extreme cases that survive? Are there any numbers on how many people will have health problems for life? Some of these are horror stories, and should get more press, IMO.
@Brachiator: It’s not mutually exclusive. Our outcomes may be even worse than, e.g., France.
If only I could make that a viable threat!
@Chief Oshkosh: Poor leadership is a greater cause for that than “capitalism” though.
Yes, yes, yes.
Early on, I noted that Canada, Denmark and various other countries were taking a comprehensive approach designed to help small business as well as corporations and, most importantly, keep people on the payroll. I hoped that the US would be more innovative in thinking about reacting to the pandemic.
About the only thing that the GOP varied from their typical way of thinking was to at least give some direct payments to people. But I thought that the Democrats erred big time in emphasizing unemployment compensation over maintaining employment. It is absurd to think that you best help people after they have been thrown out of work if you can keep them employed and maintain their health care coverage.
However, I will also note that many European countries already had some form of employment guarantees, so they were expanding systems already in place. The US has a much different model with less government support.
I don’t think that the country will rocket back to normal in post pandemic society, but there is a lot of demand that has been artificially contracted. I think that there will be an employment boom. It may be very uneven, since some entire industries may never fully recover. But I think that the degree to which economies in the US and around the world will rebound will surprise a lot of people.
@Chief Oshkosh: There are no long-term numbers yet. COVID-19 can create a horrifying array of problems – direct attacks on the lung, kidney, and brain that we know of, significant effects on liver and brain, and a disseminated coagulopathy that could cause vicious effects anywhere (like strokes, and probably leg amputations like with that NY actor). Plus (somewhat speculatively) the attacks on T-cells might cause an effect like with measles where the immune system “forgets” about diseases it was previously immune to. The frequency of all these is entirely up in the air. With SARS1 there was roughly one long-term lung damage for every death; with SARS2 I’d guess several times as much because of the much broader range of targets but that is a WAG.
All sorts of theories from health professionals about lasting consequences, including lying dormant in the body rather than being permanently eliminated by the immune system. We can’t know for a long while and need to plan based on the possibility of health issues beyond the initial infection.
Trump’s got this!
About the tests that Hogan of Maryland bought….another viewpoint of Dolt45’s answer
From Greg Siskind’s blog
+1. Just add Kushner Corp to the list. They have rapacious business practices.
Congrats to the “sanitation engineers,” you garbage men are no longer the most ridiculously named profession.
Also, people are going to wish Sherman had torched the entire state.
I’m worried that our governor in MO will do the very same thing, and for the same reason.
O/T, but bad news for Trump:
Gin & Tonic
Um, how’s that supposed to work if you don’t have a visa?
Legal jackals: can Kemp be sued for negligent homicide?
Is there a “reasonable person” standard to keep a governor or mayor in line? This has got to stop: Republican politicians possibly killing or severely injuring their constituents through depraved indifference to bolster their own electoral prospects.
Adolph Eichmann’s situation and actions used to be a cautionary tale. Not an instruction manual.
At least we avoided her:
Speaking of ventilators, just who’s working the machines these days? I’ve sure had a lot of foreign-born doctors and nurses over the years. Out healthcare system depends on immigrants at all levels, from department chairs at distinguished university hospitals to hard-pressed rural ERs. Send more, world, not fewer.
@Gin & Tonic: I guess he probably means GC holders and those with multiple entry visas like the student visa, is my guess.
RE: Disney vs other businesses
Very true. However, I don’t see Disney saying “Come see the next Star Wars or Marvel movie, then go home and die!”
This largely red state approach to re-opening the economy is stupid and dangerous on so many levels.
@PST: Yes 1/3 of all doctors and 1/4 of all nurses are foreign born. Estimates in under served areas is probably even more.
Speaking of her, the right is getting desparate (no link for obvious reasons):
God (TM) forbid Kemp take even the minimally reasonable step of telling DT to start using the DPA to get some goddamn masks made for all the people being forced back to work too early.
I genuinely wonder if our fellow jackal Mnemosyne, who just got laid off by Disney, agrees with you. Her view would certainly be informed and nuanced.
I honestly think the US did the right thing under the circumstances. Because the UI system was the only real existing way to funnel emergency cash to unemployed Americans. Seeing all the grift and graft and discrimination exposed with the bank-administered forgiveable small business loans suggests to me that the alternative as it existed in 2020 in the US was worse.
Building a system such as they have in Europe wouldn’t have been possible in a week or two. There is just no mechanism in place to do it. At least the UI system already existed. Although apparently much better in most blue states compared to red states.
Building a different type of employment security system might be a worthy goal. But it is going to take years if not decades to put in place.
I just learned that Biden’s middle name is Robinette. I wonder where that came from.
The Moar You Know
@Brachiator: They have no plans to reopen anywhere before December and even that is subject to change. As you note, they have a reputation for safety and fun, that reputation is what keeps them literally sleeping on a pile of gold, and they’re not going to let any two-bit political party fuck with that.
They are planning on a reopen. They’re remodeling all the parks and they just bought more acreage in Florida. But that reopen will be on their timeframe, not Trump’s.
God, I compare this bullshit with Cuomo’s briefing yesterday, where he talked about the unfair burden being put on necessary workers, many of whom are black, and advocated bonuses equal to 50% of their yearly income being paid to them.
I confess, I find it rather discombobulating to hear Cuomo talking like a, uh, you know, actual honest-to-god Democrat. Don’t get me wrong though, I like it.
There isn’t any sense to Republican actions because it’s never been about sense.
It’s about performing the ideology which puts money in their pockets. Full stop. It can’t be explained by any kind of logical path. It doesn’t follow any rules besides the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition. Even when lives are literally at stake; lives that you would think politicians would care about, like their own voters, turns out to be way way way down the list because money is the one thing and the only thing.
Only when you get your pointy heads and bleeding hearts in that space does it make a sorta kinda sense.
Unfortunately, Trump long ago convinced his base to discount, ignore and deny the fact that the Russians meddled in the election.
Also, Trump’s infantile ego furiously defends against anything that might possibly taint his “perfect” election. We will probably get a chance to watch him go off on another unhinged rant if any reporter brings this up.
I’d be interested to know. But having visited those sorts of parks, I gotta think the burn rate to keep a park like Disney open must be enormous. It takes a HUGE staff to keep all that stuff running. They must have a break-even point in terms of number of daily visitors that is pretty high. I have no idea what it is. Pre-covid the Magic Kingdom averaged over 50,000 visitors a day. A trickle of locals visiting the Magic Kingdom isn’t going to turn the cash spigot back on. I’m guessing they need dozens of plane loads of tourists a week to even get close to breaking even.
This is entirely different from say a local hair salon or gym or movie theater.
The Moar You Know
@Kent: Disney makes the lion’s share of their money from their intellectual property (movies/merch). If the parks went away, it would hurt them. It would not come close to putting them out of business. They can keep them closed for years if need be.
The way they handled the initial shutdown seemed riskier than it should have been–having a big “goodbye folks” observance on the last day that had everyone crowded together at Magic Kingdom to watch Mickey wave at them. Probably should have been lower-key at the very least.
@Brachiator: We aren’t disagreeing. I’m saying I doubt parks like Disney are going to re-open until they can actually make money, no matter what kind of temper tantrum the GOP governor of Florida has. They are a different kind of business entirely from say Smithfield Foods. Their employees don’t create value on their own. They need visitors to come.
In other news, GovExec:
If we just made those wiring harnesses out of West Virginia coal, then we wouldn’t be having these problems!!1 Javanka should get right on that – maybe that GM* plant in Lordstown can make those along with those ventilators…
* – GM sold that plant in November, but Donnie still talks about it.
Yes, of course. A quick bit of googling tells me that the Disney parks in the US average about $16 billion in revenue and $2 billion in profit. Which isn’t nothing. But is a drop in the bucket compared to their digital properties. The parks are probably more marketing than anything else.
@Hoodie: I can see this happening.
Snooze media: “trumpov finds innovative new ways to break through on messaging, rally Americans”
41,000+ Americans dead and he was tweeting about his fucking TV ratings this morning.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: No, the 250k deaths were assuming perfect behavior.
Models are only as good as the data we have and we had crappy data in the beginning.
@Baud: He’s Joseph Robinette Biden, Junior. It’s his grandmother’s maiden name.
“Hillary and the whitey tape, how it torpedos Biden’s chances–Tucker Carlson explores this unfolding crisis for his campaign at the top of the hour.”
Thread on how NPR views the employer/employee relationship:
@Roger Moore: ok, well…maybe. But then why hasn’t he done any in the past six weeks?
They’ve got a good thing going now. He gets to rant for two hours and have it covered (mostly) by (most of) the networks, and then in sort of a moron call-and-response dynamic, he gets to tweet-incite his followers to parade around with guns and wave Confederate flags for a day.
RE: But I thought that the Democrats erred big time in emphasizing unemployment compensation over maintaining employment. It is absurd to think that you best help people after they have been thrown out of work if you can keep them employed and maintain their health care coverage.
Strongly disagree. Even with fuck-ups, the US has been able to send $1,200 checks to people. And they may be gearing up for more.
The problem has been a lack of innovative thinking. Trump is the wrong man in the wrong place for so, so many reasons.
The state of California and Los Angeles county government has been able to implement smaller scale job protection programs.
Shit, Trump and his minions could have strong-armed more corporations into keeping furloughed employees on the payroll.
And again, the initial Democratic Party proposals left small business owners and independent contractors totally unprotected.
There was more than enough time to craft a workable program.
Just as there was enough time to prevent some of the major grift and mismanagement in the loan programs.
Unfortunately, this has largely happened because the GOP leadership are fools and the Democrats had to play catch-up since they have been sidelined from direct participation in the Trump administration economic schemes.
@Baud: It’s his grandmother Biden’s maiden name. It’s not an unusual practice. My brothers middle name similar and for the same reason.
They could lay off the mechanical engineers and maintenance folks who service the rides. That will ease the financial burden, plus nobody will notice!
@Kent: Also, Disney owns the parks. They aren’t making money, but they aren’t paying out money either. Although they may have financialized them in ways that will hurt them now.
@Baud: I believe she is French Canadian or an ancestor was French Canadian.
@germy: Scott Horsley wrote/presented the story, and was very sloppy about it.
@germy: Surprise surprise, NPR views employment EXACTLY like their corporate overlords and sponsors tell them to view it. Who the hell do you think shops these kinds of stories to them? A coffee shop in Kentucky that would actually stay open in a pandemic except that his workers are paid to stay home?
Where do they find these people? Actually the probably don’t go find them at all. The stories are probably shopped to them on a silver platter.
The US Surgeon General got sidelined from the Trump briefings for saying the same thing. tis a mystery.
Sure, a report by the Senate Intelligence Committee is not going to dissuade any die hard Trumpsters. But the point is that the Senate Committee, run by a Republican Senator with 8 of its 15 members Republicans, concluded:
This has to make it tougher for Barr to go after those at the top of the intelligence agencies.
And Trump is flailing badly at the moment, and some Republicans in Congress must be wondering whether it’s time for a bit more than social distancing between themselves and Trump.
@Baud: I think they bust out a “Hillary the All-Purpose She Demon” story on the 21st of every month. It’s like a calendar reminder that someone forgot to delete.
5th: socialized medicine
11th: Clinton Foundation
14th: Comey/FBI/’deep state’
17th: back to AOC
24th: whatever fake thing James O’Keefe is up to this month
27th: something some liberal professor said one time, somewhere
From public filings, we see that 28 percent of Disney’s operating income comes from parks and resorts. It is a chunk of money, but they could easily keep parks closed and keep on going.
In fact, keeping the parks closed for a while may even help their bottom line in some ways.
However, Disney is part of the huge worldwide travel/leisure industry. You and others may have noted that they are dependent on the nation and the world recovering from the pandemic, not just the local decisions on a small time governor.
ETA: I note that we are largely in agreement on these issues. In an earlier post, I just wanted to note that Disney also has a vested interest in wanting the movie theaters where their films are shown to be healthy places to go. In the meantime, their new Disney Plus streaming service may become even more of a goldmine than it already is.
@Brachiator: I’ve mentioned this before, but it seemingly didn’t ‘take’. USAToday from 3/25:
Schumer and Pelosi put what you wanted in the bill. There’s money (that doesn’t have to be paid back) for small companies to make payroll. As we know, Donnie’s minions made a mess of actually getting the money out to companies that need it, but it wasn’t for lack of trying by Democrats.
And more is coming from the House.
Interesting. I was unfamiliar with that tradition.
@Mandalay: So there’s a movement to provide a wisp of cover for elected officials of team R if the Orange Almighty doesn’t come out of this smelling like roses?
trump is the person we think he is. Well, with the exception that he’s actually worse than most of us have been saying. Because words don’t seem to convey how dramatic his mental deficits really are.
The Ferengi are much smarter than this. Number 57 of the Rules of Acquisition:
Corollary to Rule 57. Sick or dead people make poor customers.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Another Scott: first thing I thought of was, maybe those lazy baristas have young kids who aren’t going, can’t go, to school. Doesn’t seem to have occurred to Horsely.
Also, it’s been a while since I felt the need to pointlessly email an NPR reporter. Seems to me there used to be links to reporters emails on a story like this. I can’t find it for Horsely
EDIT: This country is being run like every dumb ass company I ever worked for.
Trump supporters listen to Trump. They conveniently dismiss the rest of the party when it helps them to help their Dear Leader. They will also turn against any Republican who is not loyal to Trump.
These dopes translate “intelligence community” into “Deep State Enemies of Trump” and “Russian meddling in elections” into “Democratic Whining about Dear Leader’s Shining Moment of Electoral Glory in Which He Won the Popular Vote By A Landslide Apart From 5 Million Illegal Immigrants Who Were Allowed To Vote.”
Sure, but a lot of that demand is inherently time-sensitive, so once it’s gone it’s gone. People who have missed a few months of eating in restaurants, going to the movies, getting their hair and nails done, etc. may do a little bit more once the restrictions are relaxed, but they aren’t going to make up for months worth of missing out. People who haven’t been driving won’t buy all the gasoline and car repairs they would have needed had they been driving to work. And so forth.
@The Moar You Know: Disney +, movies and the IP/licensing are the meatloaf and mashed potatoes of the Disney universe the Parks are a nice benefit feeding into above mentioned
Yes, it really depends on the industry I think.
For example, my wife works for a big HMO and they have already announced that all approved vacations for the summer months are canceled. They are expecting a huge backlog of patients showing up for deferred non-essential care and visits. Especially for things like dentistry. But pretty much everything from colonoscopies to mammograms. And all the deferred routine office visits. My wife is pissed because we had some late summer trips planned. Hopefully we can still defer the airfare without fees like they are doing now.
@Brachiator: Maybe they’ll listen to Moses, as played by Charlton Heston:
Suppose They Built a Hospital and Nobody Came…
Oops. Building the hospital in nine days was the easy part.
@Kent: Interesting how things move around. 30 years ago Disney made most of its money from the parks and viewed the IP as mostly advertising for the parks. But that was at the start of the second “golden age” of Disney films, and before the Disney channel shows and the acquisition of Pixar.
@raven: A few months ago, this cheapass donated $670k or $680k to fight Australian wildfires.
The band Metallica donated $750k.
I know this. I’m a tax guy. I have actually had to read a chunk of the actual goddam legislation. And it has been painful, on top of everything else I have to do.
I still maintain that there should have been and could have been a better way of setting up and administering small business assistance.
However, I give Pelosi and Schumer credit for what they have done.
I also have tried to note that a huge problem, in addition to the lack of truly innovative thinking, has been the fact that the Republicans, as usual, deliberately refused to include the Democrats from the beginning in any of these proposals.
This has been the standard Republican model for some time, and I cannot emphasize how much it disgusts me. I mean, I read the legislative text and see how blatantly the GOP does not give a shit about the impact of the pandemic and write laws that reward their corporate friends as though it is just another spring day.
And allow me to rant a bit more here. There is an error caused by hasty, secretive Republicans written into the 2017 tax law. This section was meant to help the restaurant industry in particular, and other small businesses who needed to invest in physical improvements to their property. Both Democratic Party and Republican Congressional leaders agreed that this section needed to be corrected. And yet both sides agreed to avoid fixing this in the $2 trillion bill they recently passed. This correction, and maybe even additional legislation might be needed to help the food service industry reconfigure in a post pandemic world. And it should be focused on small business. Again, no one in Congress seems to give a damn despite anything that they say in public. Neither party.
Also, and I may come back to this later. Trump’s tax law fucked over employees who may have to spend their own money to set up and maintain remote work operations. The irony just lays there, especially given all the Trump loving fools who praise him for tossing a few pennies of tax cuts to them while piling on the bucks for Trump’s rich buddies.
Denmark’s reopening and is allowing hair salons and physical therapists to reopen- I assume with some social distancing requirements- but I am kind of surprised that this is one of the first things that are being allowed. I feel like I am missing something. Also masks are neither required nor suggested, just distancing.
It’s worse than you think. Trump and McConnell will probably prevent any assistance to state governments in the next aid bills to force the states to open sooner:
Trump demands states reopen “soon” and thinks “additional funding could deter them from doing so,”
“The thinking among some Trump administration officials is that many states should be reopening their governments soon and that additional funding could deter them from doing so,” according to the report. Politico similarly reported that the White House has been “holding out because, in part, they believe if Congress keeps cutting checks for state and local governments, they will be disincentivized to open up their economies.”
Meanwhile city and state governments in many states are facing steep cuts now:
“These are not hypothetical future budget cuts. Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti announced on Sunday that the city will have to furlough workers. More than 100 cities in Texas have pleaded for funding to avert similar moves. Missouri lawmakers are expected to approve steep cuts when they return later this month. Ohio cities are facing calamitous budget shortfalls.”
I hate these monsters so much.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I can see physical therapy. That’s a medical thing. But hair salons? How do you physically distance? Maybe they mean distance between occupied chairs? And what kind of thinking does it take to count a hair salon as essential?
@mrmoshpotato: That’s a weird comparison. If you’re going to compare, you should compare total percentage giving, not on a per cause basis.
@Princess Leia: Ummm how does a hair stylist distance from a customer?
@Mandalay: A hospital named Nightengale with a nurse shortage, the irony.
@Baud: Biden’s paternal grandmother’s maiden name was Robinette.
Via GovExec – Anna Scherbina – AEI Working Paper – Determining the optimal duration of the COVID-19 suppression policy: A Cost-benefit analysis (27 page .pdf):
(IIRC, Dean Baker estimated that the bursting of the housing bubble destroyed $6T in wealth.)
Lots and lots of caveats, lots and lots of unknowns, lots and lots of assumptions, but it’s a starting point for considering the implications of ending “lockdowns” too soon.
[eta:] Sorry about the wonky formatting – C&P from PDFs often has that effect…
I realize you’re being facetious, but Disney has actually done almost the opposite. They took advantage of the parks being closed down to do kinds of maintenance that are hard to do in an 8 hour shift between when the park closes and opens the next morning.
@Baud: True, but we all know Bezos is ridiculously richer.
@Brachiator: Democrats should create a new rule that any tax giveaway the Republicans grant to the 1% gets clawed back with interest once the Democrats are in power again. All Trump’s tax cuts need to go away, and a surcharge equal to the amount not paid over the time they were in force must be added, until the Treasury is paid back.
Corruption should be assumed.
You don’t understand. If things didn’t work out perfectly, it’s the Democrats’ fault. I thought everyone knew this.
RE: I don’t think that the country will rocket back to normal in post pandemic society, but there is a lot of demand that has been artificially contracted.
No. I think you are very wrong here. And the demand will create new opportunities. Time sensitive? No, no, no.
In the long term, you don’t have to worry about making up for months of missing out. And we really don’t know how people will react once they can return to work in relative safety.
BTW, I don’t know if my barber will have been able to survive being shut down for a significant length of time. But I am dying to get a good haircut.
And we don’t know how well movie theaters and restaurants will be able to bounce back. I noted in an earlier thread how Starbucks is trying to reconfigure. Some locations may become drive-thru only and other stores may eliminate dine in service entirely, becoming takeout only. Other restaurants may also have to depend more on takeout, and other places are trying to figure out how they can survive and implement social distancing.
However, if people can do so safely, they will be hot to get out of lockdown, and this in itself will help spur economic activity.
On the other hand, gas may be cheap for a while. I saw a story that car insurance companies were considering discounts because many automobiles have been sitting idly for a while. And again, the wild card is pent-up demand, just to get out of the damn house. And if more people continue to work remotely, the costs of running a vehicle may decline a bit, a good thing.
On the other hand, the post pandemic outlook for the use of mass transit may not be very good at all.
Air travel? Big question mark.
Side note: I have been listening to the NPR program Marketplace, and it is interesting to hear interviews with some economists who want to think in old ways about this enforced lock down, comparing it to more traditional recessions. And it has been refreshing to hear other economists admit that they need to think about this in new ways.
I went back and watched an episode of the wonderful series “Connections” on YouTube and host James Burke noted how the economy of Europe rebounded in unexpected ways from the much more devastating Great Plague.
I believe that a similar unexpected effect may accompany recovery from this pandemic.
@Baud: If someone has a middle name which doesn’t seem like a name, assume it is someone’s last name (usually Mom’s). I had a friend whose last name was Fish. They told everybody they were giving the kids her last name as their middle name. Convinced some people that the baby was named Emma Fish Jones. I offered to cross stitch a sampler for the baby’s room. Kind of sad they turned me down.
While I agree with you, I would point out that state governments are not helpless. Yes, many of them have artificially constrained themselves with balanced budget amendments and other nonsense that doesn’t adapt to cyclical economics. But interest rates are at historic lows and states have the ability to borrow billions by issuing bonds, exactly like the federal government. I’m not sure I understand the difference between the State of Washington issuing $5 billion in bonds to pay for expenses, or the Federal Government issuing $5 billion in T-bills in order to pass the funds to Washington State.
I’m sure there are equity reasons why it is better to do this at the Federal level. California has more resources than say Arkansas or Mississippi. But a lot of those Republican states also have artificially constrained spending limits embedded in their constitutions and statutes that could actually be changed. They CAN raise taxes if they have the political will.
And, honestly, there is a SHITLOAD of state spending that could be revisited in a serious emergency. Spending in freeway projects and spending on prisons, for example.
Oh, no, I didn’t hear that she got laid off!
Scissors with really long handles. You know, the sort of things that arborists use for trimming high tree limbs. I’m sure it’ll be fine.
I wonder how much of the cost of the parks is related to updating them to match the new IP. They’ve spent a ton of money on building new Star Wars and Marvel related areas and rides in their parks. Once that’s done, though, they can probably milk it for a good long time.
Right now the US has 43,663 coronavirus deaths, and 684,595 active cases, and the current “death rate” for closed cases in the US is 37% (75,317 Recovered/Discharged vs 43,663 deaths).
So I’m struggling to understand why Fauci has been saying “the U.S could see closer to 60,000 deaths by the end of the pandemic“. Even assuming there is not a single new case of coronavirus as of right now, for that to be true the death rate for the 684,595 open cases would have to fall from 37% to ~2.38%, and that’s plainly not going to happen.
Even if you accept the argument that Fauci is a shill for Trump, why isn’t he getting challenged about his numbers? Reporters don’t have to be epidemiologists; all they need is some very basic mathematics.
@Baud: That is a really awesome ad.
They know they have Trump’s ear, so they make requests:
I’m really trying to imagine how you use social distancing when you are cutting hair or giving physical therapy.
Remote control hair clippers? Robots?
why am I 99% certain these states that want to resume normal business are mostly concerned about college football? If things don’t open up soon, no summer practice. State universities will be forced to adhere to the wishes of the Board of Regents (appointed by the governor). You know GA just has to have it’s cross state rivalry go on as usual, even if it means killing half the state. Once one opens the stadiums for business, how long before every state governor is pressured to do the same. And the NCAA, well, they are hardly trustworthy when it comes to the health and well being of their athletes.
They are basically fucking themselves. I have been trying to help my daughter in Arkansas apply for unemployment and it has been utterly impossible. We’ve been trying for weeks. She is a college student but has enough hours working at a local fitness center to qualify for UI. Except that the web site crashes at the end, every time. And if you try at 3 am to avoid the traffic you get the message that the system is only open from 8 am to 6 pm. WHO THE FUCK SHUTS DOWN A WEB SITE A NIGHT? It is deliberate to make it harder to file claims in ordinary times.
BUT…..Congress has appropriated $600/week extra to all unemployed. So, blue states with functioning unemployment systems are already tapping into this money and distributing it. Red states are not. Do they think people are saving it in offshore accounts? No, they are using it for rent and food and utilities and clothing and everything else. It is all going straight back into the local economy.
If it were not for the human misery, I would actually be laughing at all the red southern states that are missing out on tens of billions of dollars of economic stimulus because they are governed by horrible people. It is about time that Federal dollars flow the other direction for once.
Hopefully she will pop up to clarify, but I think she was furloughed. This might mean that she is able to retain some benefits such as health insurance.
It’s not just Disney. Taking advantage of the light traffic, there are roadworks everywhere in South Florida right now, in the evening and overnight.
There aren’t many good things about the coronavirus outbreak, but this is surely one of them.
I was thinking hedge clippers with 6 foot handle extensions.
It might take a bit of practice, though. Let them test it out on a few other customers first.
I think you’re coming at this from a L.A. perspective, in many major cities, it’s the only way around the city.
@germy: Oh No! Not the Help…
Gin & Tonic
@Fair Economist: And before they got copyright law changed to their (immense) benefit.
I’m going to keep saying this:
So-called free market capitalists like to say that individual rational decisions add up to what’s best for society. So maybe there should be a constant reminder that neither Trump nor governors nor Bill Barr have the ability to “open the economy” — that is up to people choosing to go to restaurants and stores and movie theaters and malls and gyms and stadiums. If people feel the government has put in place measures to make things safe, they will show up.
I know you have hammered on this before. Just getting tired of hearing (and being told) that there’s a fight about how to “open” the economy when no such power exists in the hands of governments — they can close things, but opening is in the hands of the people.
@Kent: I think states are constrained on what they can issue bonds for, they can do it for capital projects but not for budget expenses.
I think that Disney saw early on the value of exploiting it’s entertainment properties. Didn’t they derive a great deal of revenue from the Wonderful World of Disney TV show, and the range of shows from live action programs to the Mickey Mouse Club?
And Walt seemed to understand the value of guarding intellectual property, which stemmed from Universal Pictures stealing Oswald Rabbit from him.
The death rate for closed cases in the middle of a pandemic is a pretty meaningless number. People who die are definitively dead, while it’s often pretty fuzzy about when someone has completely recovered. And since the number of cases is still growing rapidly, most of the people who have been diagnosed are still relatively early in their case, so they haven’t really had a chance to recover yet. The death rate among closed cases has been dropping steadily, and we can expect it to continue dropping. I agree that we can expect a lot more than 60,000 deaths- we’re already over 40,000, and we’ve averaged about 2000 deaths per day for the past two weeks- but the recovery rate is a terrible place to start making predictions.
@Roger Moore: Heh, they’ve been milking Mickey Mouse for almost 100 years.
I think I see the problem.
@Jinchi: DO I get hazard pay? If it pays well enough I might consider it! Seriously Thank you! I needed a laugh.
Dorothy A. Winsor
This is like my local library taking the chance to expand their parking lot.
@artem1s: There’s a lot bigger games than Tech. We play Bama the third week of September and that would be one where 100,000 people who don’t even try to go to the game will show up in Tuscaloosa. The economic impact on Athens would be huge, it’s incredible what 6 home games bring to this town but I don’t think it’s going to happen this year. The Georgia BOR will have zero say in the overall situation in college football.
@dmsilev: Oh well, I didn’t really need 2 ears anyway…might wear some goggles though, just in case.
RE: On the other hand, the post pandemic outlook for the use of mass transit may not be very good at all.
People are going to reluctant to ride mass transit everywhere.
Transit agencies all over America have reduced schedules (not sure what is happening overseas). But cities are also looking at cuts to transit subsidies and may face increased operating costs related to implementing social distancing and to cleaning buses and trains more frequently. And also, of course, the possible impact of continued remote working and remote education programs.
Southern California is its own special case. Metro buses and trains, DASH and Commuter Express. Other cities (Montebello and Foothill appear to be having some particular problems) and of course Metrolink.
Even the courtesy of some drivers allowing homeless people to ride on early morning and late evening buses and trains may need to change. Little things. Big things. And agencies in other cities and states have their own equivalent issues.
I think the study is a useful start to estimating the economic damage ahead, based on the scenarios contemplated. But I don’t know that working out a best duration for the lockdown in dollars-and-cents terms, with an eye to minimising the economic damage, helps very much.
Covid-19 is a public-health issue. Lockdown should last as long as it is deemed a necessary public health measure; I can’t imagine anyone wanting it to last one day longer than that. The costs will just have to be what they are. This is about lives, not money.
But money is fungible. And accounting can get creative. I don’t think there are statutory prohibitions on states issuing bonds for non-capital projects. It is just not something most have ever done.
It’s borrowing money either way. Whether it is the Federal or State taxpayers on the hook.
I’m not saying any of this is good or easy. Just that States are not entirely helpless.
@Roger Moore: You make some good points, but the ratio of deaths to recoveries looks pretty bad now.
If we assume that many, many more people are infected and have recovered than is known, then that lowers the CFR, but how do we square that with the rule of thumb that we learned early on that (roughly):
80% of cases are mild.
20% of cases are not mild.
5% of cases are life-threatening.
Something doesn’t add up.
There’s still a lot that we don’t know, but that 20-25% CFR number is terrifying. And a best case CFR of 0.16% for, say, Americans infected is still 320,000 dead.
It’s looking as if even the “mild” cases are at serious risk of permanent lung damage.
Yeah, but if it’s the only way to get to work, they’ll ride. One of the reasons many mass transit systems are cutting service is there’s less demand. Once things open back up that will cease to be an issue. I’ll echo the comment above that “opening back up” involves trust from consumers no matter what Long Red Tie or the Governor says.
I may not have said that right. She said she was furloughed: no pay, but full medical benefits.
@germy: The laws on endowments need to change, because as of now donors are allowed to severely restrict how the money they give can be spent. They probably should in the short term, but after 10-20 years or so the money should become fungible.
Having worked at Harvard, it is oddly set up. Each school has its own fundraising, budget, and endowment. The Business School is rolling in dough, some from donations, but mostly through selling their cases to students at other business schools. The Divinity School is basically broke all the time. One of the museums (or maybe even one of the galleries/collections in one of the museums) pays their guards and curators substantially more than the others because someone left money only to be spent on that collection/museum. So people are making $20/hr instead of $15. There are weird little pots of money around, which count as part of the endowment, but can only be spent on say, scholarships for music students studying overseas. Or purchasing books of poetry.
It’s even crazier in the fields where faculty have to raise the money to fund their labs and research.
Higher ed needs a complete overhaul. No preferential admission for children of alums. Changes to how graduate education is funded, with the goal of little to no student funding of PhDs. This will probably mean far fewer grad students. Bringing tenure track and contingent faculty close(r) to parity in terms of salary and availability of resources. The wealthy Ivies need to increase the size of their student bodies.
@Another Scott: Editing error. The closing sentence should be:
of 0.16% for, say, 200 M Americans infected is still 320,000 dead.
From the National Conference of State Legislatures:
ETA: In California, we require supermajorities for voter enacted bond issues.
For what it’s worth, of 3,441 cases in Malaysia that have had an outcome, 92 patients have died for a case fatality rate of 2.67%.
James E Powell
I’m convinced that there is no such thing as bad news for Trump. For one thing, that conclusion will be buried under a pile of COVID-19 stories, so the great mass of Americans will never know about it.
More important, it doesn’t matter what happens; his supporters will never desert him. The press/media make him the star of every show, every night. As long as the “news” is what Trump said, things people said about what Trump said, and what Trump said about those people, it’s all good news for him.
@Dorothy A. Winsor: My mom is getting in-home PT right now. They come in masked, gloved and gowned like they’re going into an operating theater.
I see you are not a conservative.
@Feathers: Yes to all of this. The University of Texas alone educates more people than all of the Ivies combined.
In a sane world we would write all of that sort of thing into legislation and schools that don’t want to comply would lose their tax exempt status. Sure, keep granting preferential treatment to legacy admits if you want to, but don’t expect the US taxpayers to subsidize it.
James E Powell
Did those go out? I thought they were being held up for some.
@James E Powell: I think we’re finally in a scenario where that’s no longer true. Things are bad enough that people who otherwise waved away his awfulness and abject incompetence and lack of giving a shit because it didn’t affect them are now affected. Sure, 40% of the country voted for Hoover in the midst of the Great Depression; those type of people are still with us. But there’s a softer set of people who are going to be pissed, at least enough to stay home. Polls are starting to show this, and it’s going to get worse.
Stunts which really just make some level of lockdown, whether official or voluntary, perpetual like Brian Kemp’s hunt for bigger wave aren’t going to help either. And at the rate thing are going, the lack of testing capacity is going to still be an ongoing scandal in October unless enough capacity opens up overseas and they somehow bail us out.
Are you going to include research funding for PhD students? Because it’s hard to imagine anyone getting a PhD in the sciences without it.
The GOP is continuing to slow-roll the federal response, but Schumer and Pelosi are continuing to do their jobs and fight for us.
@Another Scott: Do we have even have non-spit-ball estimates about the number of people who are asymptomatic? A lifetime ago (i.e. last month), they were saying that “mild” symptoms were equivalent to a really awful flu, and the rest built up from there. How many people/what percentage are “extremely mild” in that they don’t know or only barely know that they’re sick?
As long as there are research grants going to universities then grad students will get their cut. It’s hard to imagine any serious researcher getting anything done without paid grad student RAs doing the grunt work. None of the professors I knew and worked for in the UW College of Fisheries and Oceanography would have gotten anything done or published without grad students on the payroll.
@sdhays: All I know of are the various anecdotal reports (e.g. 60+% of the infections on the Theodore Roosevelt being asymptomatic; various recent surveys in California). Without more high-quality testing of people who aren’t immediately admitted to the hospital (i.e. truly random samples of representative populations), we just don’t know.
There are lots of stories that we must have vastly more infections than have been detected, but it seems to me that the stories around the world aren’t consistent yet (e.g. the vastly different death rates, etc.).
We need more data. Donnie is doing his best to keep us from getting it.
@Ruckus: When you call these people ‘pig ignorant’, I think you are selling the pigs short….
This is from April 6:
Detroit rep says hydroxychloroquine, Trump helped save her life amid COVID-19 fight
He needs the rush that he gets from his live racism events, which used to be known as KKK rallies. He doesn’t worry about the virus, he’s better than it is, he doesn’t think it can affect him.
You have to ask?
Somehow I doubt the non mouth breathing republican governors are going to be looked upon well by the 27%. They are not trying to wipe out liberals, and that is treason to conservatives.
@Kent: Yeah, states can do anything if they ignore their laws. WTF? That is Trumpian logic.
one dead child from this re-opening…..
don’t mess with the mouse.
@Calouste: It might have been me who mentioned Disney Cruises and the lack of a Norovirus problem. My youngest worked on The Wonder in 2007 as an entertainer. The ships are not owned or run by Disney, but Disney leases their name to the company and oversees the operation and shows to prevent anything un-Disney-like happening. You think it’s going to be tame and G-rated and dull, but the shows are vert entertaining, the food was incredibly good, and you don’t have to be around kids at all if you don’t want to. We don’t have any grandchildren and the only kid we had much contact with was a delightful 4-year-old from Iowa who was one of the party at our table, along with his parents and grandparents. The 8th seat at the table was our daughter, when she could manage it and wasn’t on stage for a show. They also had an incredible small restaurant that does not allow children, reservation necessary, and you can only eat there once during the cruise.
There were sanitizing stations all over the ship, and before we could enter the dining room we were required to sanitize our hands. Everyone complied that I saw. My daughter said that if anyone got sick with Norovirus during a cruise, the cruise would be over. The ship would head back to port in Cape Canaveral immediately.
I’ve been on one other cruise because my arm was twisted to do so, and it was nothing like the Disney cruise. There was no one checking on hand-washing, no sanitizing stations, and I think that was Viking.
Carnival has long had a bad rep for other issues besides Norovirus running wild, and it’s always, always a Carnival-related cruise that has that problem, but Norovirus is enough of a horror story all by itself.
you are absolutely on point
Not one muthaphuckin’ dime to the Oil Industry unless the money is there for the states and municipalities
@Kent: Did you visit a Disney property during the two years following 9/11/2001? Because Disneyland in Anaheim was nearly a ghost town but it was fully staffed. The park was supported during the two dry years by their other products and media: they own ESPN, among other things, or did at that time. They also owned The Ducks and The Angels then, and the Anaheim Angels had a historic run to win the World Series in 2002, when the park was still empty.
Employees were unnerved to learn that the guys who flew into the World Trade towers had scouted Disneyland as a possible site for their monumental disaster.
@Roger Moore: Replying late, but what I mean is that PhD students should have full funding, including living expenses from the university where they are studying. There could be some flexibility in terms of partial funding the masters portion, but once a student is getting a doctorate, it’s on the university’s tab. Part of the goal of this is to cut way back on the number of grad students. It would also mean needing more funding from the government. There would probably fewer institutions granting PhDs.
@Amir Khalid: Yep, beach volleyball, with a great big automated, laser guided alcohol spritzer, at the net?
I had to go take care of a few things, so don’t know if this thread is still active. Transit lines cut service as part of the lock down. People did not just decide not to ride anymore. So the impact on demand was artificial. We don’t know how transit ridership might be affected by social distance requirements. And even fear of disease might put a big damper on people coming back to mass transit.
In Southern California people will look for transit alternatives. Increased incursions by homeless people and an increase in crime has continued to suppress ridership despite improvements and new lines. People will jump through hoops to buy cheap used cars to avoid the bus or train.