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You are here: Home / Healthcare / COVID-19 / Wednesday Evening Open Thread: To Repeat, These People Are Monsters

Wednesday Evening Open Thread: To Repeat, These People Are Monsters

by Anne Laurie|  April 22, 20206:39 pm| 227 Comments

This post is in: COVID-19, Republican Stupidity, Republican Venality, Trumpery, MONSTERS

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“N45 Mask” pic.twitter.com/Zf7yuYYVKt

— Edel Rodriguez (@edelstudio) April 20, 2020

there’s now a case to be made that if trump had done *absolutely nothing* in response to the crisis except enter a cone of silence and let people do their jobs we’d have this halfway under control already and be cruising towards resumption of most normal activities https://t.co/YVBTSf3O1R

— kilgore trout, compulsory consumer (@KT_So_It_Goes) April 22, 2020

was it jared and ivanka https://t.co/SOmWaHX3AA

— darth™ (@darth) April 20, 2020

And also idiots. Idiots can be monsters, too!

He's going to suggest that everyone buy rakes, isn't he? https://t.co/kVjJDwOOzT

— Dr. Tara C. Smith (@aetiology) April 21, 2020

Speaking of idiots — Visit Las Vegas, if the slots don’t get ya the coronavirus might!

Keep in mind that this assumed ignorance is a common ploy. It's the old, "if I didn't know I couldn't have done anything about it." It's CYA and implausible deniability. https://t.co/iyIZ4lCAuo

— Mig Greengard (@chessninja) April 21, 2020


None of this have it both ways, who knows for sure, everybody dies sometime, blah blah. "Experts say this will kill people and the economy will still tank. So why are you doing it?"

— Mig Greengard (@chessninja) April 21, 2020

Going full Leroy Jenkins on a contagious disease is bonkers, and the only reason to do it is if you're sure you can't do test and trace. Or if you don't want to, for hidden motives.

— Mig Greengard (@chessninja) April 21, 2020

As an election ploy, maybe not the best…

So you're telling me Operation Sacrifice the Elders isn't exactly clicking with FoxNews's core demographic? https://t.co/y8jHHhMpaF

— Zeddy (@Zeddary) April 21, 2020

Despite scattered protests, most Americans support shelter-in-place, Reuters/Ipsos poll shows https://t.co/6yJjMkgCH7 pic.twitter.com/2VmsRhehpd

— Reuters (@Reuters) April 22, 2020

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Previous Post: « What will happen to all the little colleges?
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Reader Interactions

227Comments

  1. 1.

    Hungry Joe

    April 22, 2020 at 6:45 pm

    New motto: “Live free AND die!”

  2. 2.

    debbie

    April 22, 2020 at 6:45 pm

    Ohio’s Director of Health Amy Acton is Jewish and there have been a couple of anti-Semitic incidents since the protests began. The wife of an Ohio State Senator implied Acton was acting like a Nazi in a FB post. She eventually removed it, but accused leftists of turning her remark into something it wasn’t.

    So, same old, same old.

  3. 3.

    prostratedragon

    April 22, 2020 at 6:47 pm

    Programming note before immersing in the latest outrages (reposted from the Earth Day thread):

    Tonight at 8 Central time radio station WFMT Chicago will broadcast a performance of a new work, Terra Nostra (Our Earth) by composer Stacy Garrop. It’s an oratorio setting of ancient and modern poetry around the themes Creation of the World, The Rise of Humanity, and Searching for Balance. There’s a link to excerpts of the text and score at that post. I think this will show up tomorrow and for a couple of weeks thereafter at the WFMT podcast page.

  4. 4.

    jl

    April 22, 2020 at 6:48 pm

    Two pieces of good news I see here:

    One, majority of population, from vast to just big enough, have the common sense to know that this kind of disease epidemic is very serious stuff and they resist falling for BS.

    Two, Trumpster/GOP is still rapidly, in the space of a few minutes, cycling through A/B/C testing of propaganda and swindler sales lines in desperate attempt to find one that will work. So far they haven’t found one that even remotely works, except with a small minority of nutcases. Which makes sense, because their position is patently, obviously, thoroughly, indefensible. There is a lot unknown about the disease, but if you look at the research literature, the basic outlines of the problem, and what new problems needed to be tackled for control, were known since late Jan early February. And US had example of three or four countries in effective response. US fed govt sat there doing nothing and fumbling.

    Longer the Trumpster/GOP cycles through incoherent and self-contradictory BS swindler sales pitches for CYA, the more they discredit themselves in the eyes of the public.

  5. 5.

    Cermet

    April 22, 2020 at 6:57 pm

    The bottom line is we are fucked; these mass murdering asswipes will cause many thousands of preventable deaths all because they are stupid assholes. Thanks to all the asswipes who either voted for this pile of shit or refuse to vote for purity reasons. Just hope no BJ’ers pay the ulimate price for these imbeciles.

  6. 6.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 22, 2020 at 6:59 pm

    Well Orange has signed the EO for the total immigration ban.

  7. 7.

    There go two miscreants

    April 22, 2020 at 7:01 pm

    I have been re-reading an excellent book about the 1918 Pandemic, “The Great Influenza” by John Barry (it has been mentioned not long ago by some other commenters here). The parallels with the present are just chilling, but the one thing that just LEAPS from the pages is the deadly effect of people travelling (because the Wilson administration would NOT brook any interference with war mobilization) and crowding together (in troop quarters, the Philadelphia War Bond parade, etc). It was quite clear that people, especially servicemen being moved from post to post, were rapidly spreading the virus.

  8. 8.

    Captain C

    April 22, 2020 at 7:01 pm

    Jared and Ivanka remind me of the Sarah Michelle Gellar and Ryan Phillippe characters in Cruel Intentions, but with less class.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    April 22, 2020 at 7:05 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I couldn’t find any details.

  10. 10.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 22, 2020 at 7:05 pm

    there’s now a case to be made that if trump had done *absolutely nothing* in response to the crisis except enter a cone of silence and let people do their jobs we’d have this halfway under control already and be cruising towards resumption of most normal activities

    What? No there isn’t.

  11. 11.

    germy

    April 22, 2020 at 7:06 pm

    “Wow, that’s really ignorant.”

    @AndersonCooper clashes with Las Vegas Mayor Goodman after she justified her wish to quickly reopen casinos saying, “this isn’t China, this is Las Vegas,” after he showed her a graphic of how coronavirus could spread in a restaurant in China. pic.twitter.com/w3QscYmiIH

    — Anderson Cooper 360° (@AC360) April 22, 2020

  12. 12.

    VOR

    April 22, 2020 at 7:07 pm

    I haven’t heard, has COVID-19 reached The Villages yet? That would certainly dampen Trump’s polling.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    April 22, 2020 at 7:08 pm

    I read that Trump threw Kemp under the bus.

  14. 14.

    Roger Moore

    April 22, 2020 at 7:08 pm

    @jl: 
    The Trumpers’ biggest problem is that they aren’t just dealing with people who they can hope to bamboozle with their latest line of bullshit. The coronavirus doesn’t give a damn about their latest argument, and even Trump’s loyal followers will start doubting him when people they know are hospitalized or dead. They’ve finally encountered a situation that can’t just be backed out of and papered over by pretending that was their strategy all along.

  15. 15.

    MisterForkbeard

    April 22, 2020 at 7:09 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: More like: There’s a solid case to be made that Trump has actively made things worse – made outbreaks larger, made the sick more likely to die, and funneled money towards corporate friends and supplies to loyal Republicans.

    I mean, we know he did those things.

    And if he’d just nominated someone to oversee the whole and shut up we’d be in a much better space… but we’d still be pretty fucked. :/

  16. 16.

    Sab

    April 22, 2020 at 7:11 pm

    My son’s fiance is an essential worker at a BP gas station/ convenience store. She has worked there since she was sixteen, when her mother died. Her bosses treat her like cheap help, although she has basically been managment forever. If she dies, they have a serious staffing issue.

    If she dies, my stepson has no reason for living.

    I wish I had enough money to get her to quit. But she has supported herself since forever.

    We are home alone. But we are terrified for those we love who are forced to be out in the world.

  17. 17.

    dmsilev

    April 22, 2020 at 7:11 pm

    @germy: I think my favorite part of that interview was when she suggested that Vegas be the control group in a ‘does social distancing work?’ study.

  18. 18.

    Mnemosyne

    April 22, 2020 at 7:13 pm

    I posted this in a different thread below, but in case anyone needs some election-related comedy, Biden “announced” his VP pick to James Corden and it’s hilarious.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/OfficialJLD/status/1253061318019411968

  19. 19.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 22, 2020 at 7:18 pm

    Tom Nichols @RadioFreeTom ·1m
    FINALLY a question about the doc pushed out. Trump professes total lack of awareness, “I’ve never heard of him. I don’t know who he is.” Instead of pinning him down about this, the next reporter asks whether there’s going to be a Fourth of July celebration. FML

  20. 20.

    germy

    April 22, 2020 at 7:20 pm

    OK, I've been holding my tongue on the theory that a pandemic is no time to be calling people out on anything other than failing us in a public health sense. I thought it might be a moment for peace and reconciliation. But I feel a thread coming on….1/ https://t.co/G1mUq7RmAV— Abigail Disney (@abigaildisney) April 21, 2020

  21. 21.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 7:21 pm

    I see Las Vegas’s mayor wants to possibly be in the dock at the American Nuremberg trials too.

    Good for her!  Asshole.

  22. 22.

    dmsilev

    April 22, 2020 at 7:21 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: ‘I’ve never heard of him’ is probably true, but every bit as damning.

  23. 23.

    germy

    April 22, 2020 at 7:21 pm

    A Once-in-a-Century Pandemic
    by Joyce Rice, Eleri Harris and Sarah Mirk

    We’re repeating a lot of the same mistakes from the 1918 “Spanish Flu” H1N1 outbreak

  24. 24.

    Achrachno

    April 22, 2020 at 7:22 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Don’t want a lot of immigrants diluting the worlds largest concentration of COVID patients.

  25. 25.

    dmsilev

    April 22, 2020 at 7:22 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: Look, she just wants to promote games of Russian Roulette; is that so wrong?

  26. 26.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 22, 2020 at 7:22 pm

    @dmsilev: I’m more of this school of thought

    Windsor Mann@WindsorMann·15m
    The only time Trump says “I don’t know” is when he doesn’t want you to know.

  27. 27.

    The Moar You Know

    April 22, 2020 at 7:23 pm

    hahahahaha go to a Vegas casino?  NOW?  I don’t know what that mayor is thinking but nobody’s coming back to Vegas.  Not now and possibly not ever; like cruise ships.

  28. 28.

    germy

    April 22, 2020 at 7:27 pm

    "Sacrifice the Weak" – imagine not just thinking of this but actually writing it out AND taking it out on the street in Nashville, Tennessee. pic.twitter.com/dLPutBoJzG

    — Conor Blennerhassett (@ConorBlenner) April 22, 2020

  29. 29.

    Gravenstone

    April 22, 2020 at 7:28 pm

    @dmsilev: Because walls of slot machines, gaming tables and buffets are ideal environments for “social distancing”. Fucking homicidal morons.

  30. 30.

    Mandalay

    April 22, 2020 at 7:28 pm

    @Baud:

    I read that Trump threw Kemp under the bus.

    Well yes, but it was a very nice, beautiful bus. Some people told me they couldn’t believe how beautiful that bus was. It was a bus like you wouldn’t believe.

  31. 31.

    Calouste

    April 22, 2020 at 7:29 pm

    @Achrachno: Most of those immigrants are already in the United States. Or at least if we’re talking about stopping the processing of Green Card applications. The majority of those are people upgrading from work visa to permanent residency.

  32. 32.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 22, 2020 at 7:29 pm

    Aaron Rupar@atrupar·18m
    Here’s Trump comparing the crowd he got for his speech last July 4th to crowds MLK used to get for his speeches

    Asked to say more about his disagreement with Gov. Kemp about his move to reopen businesses, Trump changes the topic to talking about how Kemp’s victory represented a win in his proxy war against the Obamas

    huh, seems he’s extra-racially resentful tonight– “the Obamas”…. I wonder if that plural was trump or Rupar

  33. 33.

    lamh36

    April 22, 2020 at 7:32 pm

    @notcapnamerica

    FollowingFollowing @notcapnamerica

    More

    .@KamalaHarris just taught @MarkWarnerVA how to make a proper tuna melt on Instagram. Yes it was as entertaining as you’d imagine, including Mark being surprised that you’re supposed to drain the water from the can first.

    There are four parts Chris posted here:
    https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1253086254767517698

  34. 34.

    Calouste

    April 22, 2020 at 7:32 pm

    @germy: And for a bonus, a bit of casual racism thrown in towards a significant consumer base of Las Vegas.

    We’ll see if the Beijing-Las Vegas flights start up again in the future or whether they will be going to Macau instead.

  35. 35.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 22, 2020 at 7:32 pm

    Tom Nichols @RadioFreeTom ·7m
    Trump alternating here between giving Birx the sideeye and furrowing his brow as he tries to understand the words coming out of her mouth.

    I almost wish I were watching

  36. 36.

    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)

    April 22, 2020 at 7:32 pm

    A girl I went to high school with lives in Vegas and works in the trade show industry, and she was told by management that the earliest they could expect to resume shows would be next year.

    I personally wouldn’t go within 100 miles of Vegas or a cruise ship even after all this is said and done.

  37. 37.

    lgerard

    April 22, 2020 at 7:32 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    FINALLY a question about the doc pushed out. Trump professes total lack of awareness, “I’ve never heard of him. I don’t know who he is.”

    It is just maddening that the next question wasn’t ‘Why don’t you know who he is, asshole”

  38. 38.

    Roger Moore

    April 22, 2020 at 7:35 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

    I see Las Vegas’s mayor wants to possibly be in the dock at the American Nuremberg trials too.

    I looked her up online and noticed she left the Democratic Party to become an independent in 2009.  Make of that what you will.

  39. 39.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 7:38 pm

    @jl:

    Longer the Trumpster/GOP cycles through incoherent and self-contradictory BS swindler sales pitches for CYA, the more they discredit themselves in the eyes of the public 

    For me personally, the racist, fascist, pussy-grabbing, Soviet shitpile, mobster conman discredited himself with his campaign announcement in June 2015.

  40. 40.

    Patricia Kayden

    April 22, 2020 at 7:38 pm

    Cruelty is the point.

    Just learned that cartoon villain Betsy DeVos is banning colleges from granting emergency Coronavirus assistance to DACA students. As always, cruelty is the goal.— Kaivan Shroff (@KaivanShroff) April 22, 2020

  41. 41.

    hueyplong

    April 22, 2020 at 7:38 pm

    Doesn’t know who the Dr is?  So he inadvertently fired the Dr?

    Does that mean the Dr will now be reinstated or would that constitute the unacceptable reversal of a Trump decision?

  42. 42.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 22, 2020 at 7:39 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: much better!

  43. 43.

    Achrachno

    April 22, 2020 at 7:39 pm

    @Roger Moore: Her husband was the mayor before her, and apparently was well-liked.

  44. 44.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 7:41 pm

    @Captain C: Good comparison.  And now I want to listen to Counting Crows.

  45. 45.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 7:42 pm

    Wait it all comes out that Jared and trumpov slow-walked the “response” not just ’cause they’re stupid, but because they wanted to get in position to profit off of PPE, hydroxywhatever, tests, and more.  To say nothing of shorting the stock market and tipping off their big-donor buddies to do the same.

    And then even when the pandemic became clear, made organized attempts to hijack PPE, testing equipment, and more in order to reward “friends” (ie, trumpov loyalist governors) and punish enemies*.

    *I know there has already been reporting on this…I’m talking about evidence and witnesses.

  46. 46.

    Bex

    April 22, 2020 at 7:43 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Dr. Scarf assumed the hands folded head bowed position when she had to (slightly) disagree with the Messiah.

  47. 47.

    Baud

    April 22, 2020 at 7:43 pm

    Biden wins backing of environmental stars Gore and Inslee

  48. 48.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 7:44 pm

    @Roger Moore: wait…did something big happen in America in early 2009?  Politically speaking?

  49. 49.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 7:44 pm

    @Roger Moore: I’ll take She’s A Racist POS for $600.

  50. 50.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 7:45 pm

    @Baud: May it serve as an object lesson to all potential trumpov ring-kissers.

    It won’t, but whew it sure should.

  51. 51.

    Baud

    April 22, 2020 at 7:46 pm

    Exclusive: Poll signals strengthening support for Biden over Trump in three Midwest battleground states

  52. 52.

    Baud

    April 22, 2020 at 7:47 pm

    Biden makes end run around Trump as the president dominates the national stage

  53. 53.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 22, 2020 at 7:47 pm

    Tom Nichols@RadioFreeTom 4m
    Trump now bristling at the idea that Dr. Bright has great gifts. “Why do you say that? Do you know him?” Pretty hostile response from President who said he didn’t know the guy an hour ago

    Trump on Fauci: “If I’d let him speak, I’ll let anyone speak.“ I would love someone to ask a follow up here: what did you mean by that, Mr. President?

  54. 54.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 7:47 pm

    @germy: that thread was epic.  Most people have no idea that the payouts for the 1%, .1%, .01% are that ridiculous, or that big corporations screw their “cast members” so egregiously.  Ok maybe the latter (and then they just hope they don’t end up getting screwed as badly) but definitely not the former.

    What’s that Chris Rock quote again, about “if people only knew…”?

  55. 55.

    Baud

    April 22, 2020 at 7:48 pm

    @Jeffro:

    No Republican can stand against the God of White Entitlement.

  56. 56.

    Achrachno

    April 22, 2020 at 7:48 pm

    @Achrachno: I’m not sure he should have been well-liked but I gather he was.  LV is the core of Democratic strength in NV and should be doing better in who they select for mayor.

  57. 57.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 7:52 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    They’ve finally encountered a situation that can’t just be backed out of and papered over by pretending that was their strategy all along. 

    It also doesn’t care if it’s called a “Total loser! SAD!” on Twitter.  It has no pussy to grab. And, Cohen, could threaten to sue it from home confinement but…

  58. 58.

    germy

    April 22, 2020 at 7:52 pm

    A @Reuters special report: HHS chief Alex Azar tapped ex-professional Labradoodle breeder to coordinate the coronavirus response https://t.co/i6fU90uRgY pic.twitter.com/ka4ft86FWl— Reuters (@Reuters) April 22, 2020

    Heck of a job, doodle.

  59. 59.

    Poe Larity

    April 22, 2020 at 7:53 pm

    See, the problem here is the more successful progressive thinking in govt is, the more people in a few months will say “see, Trump was right, one big nothingburger.”

    Fauci isn’t getting a Presidential Medal of Freedom. Jared is.

  60. 60.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 7:54 pm

    @Baud: Biden really is an excellent “figurehead for a coalition of interests”, aka the 2020 Democratic coalition (the Obama coalition of voting blocs + a more progressive policy agenda than 2008.)

    Usually everyone seems to focus on the individual in question.  And not to take anything away from Uncle Joe, but this time it’s like at least some of the focus is on our various ‘wings’ and issues, and the most prominent figures for each wing/issue are weighing in saying “Joe’s our guy”.

    I confess, I did not see that coming.  But it’s working quite well.

  61. 61.

    dexwood

    April 22, 2020 at 7:55 pm

    Come to Las Vegas, Gamble With Your Lives… you know you want to.

    Man, the marketing possibilities.

  62. 62.

    Baud

    April 22, 2020 at 7:56 pm

    @Jeffro:

    Except for Bernie, it’s no different than what Hillary achieved.  The difference is that Biden isn’t some sort of larger than life figure like Obama and Hillary were.

  63. 63.

    MattF

    April 22, 2020 at 7:57 pm

    Derek Lowe, the guy I go to for a knowledgeable perspective on drugs, vaccines, immunology, etc., has lost his cool.

  64. 64.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 7:58 pm

    @germy: You wrote it before I could!

    So true though…with trumpublicans, you get dog-breeders and horse-breeders in charge of your vital governmental functions.

    But then again…mustard, arugula, tan suits…

  65. 65.

    germy

    April 22, 2020 at 7:58 pm

    Full statement from Dr. Bright & his attorneys. Bright says he was removed as BARDA Dir & transferred to NIH for pressing the govt to better vet COVID-19 treatments, esp hydroxychloroquine. He’s asking HHS IG to investigate. @CBSNews h/t @nancycordesFirst reported by @maggieNYT pic.twitter.com/i4Fmn1uoH4— Sara Cook (@saraecook) April 22, 2020

  66. 66.

    MisterForkbeard

    April 22, 2020 at 7:59 pm

    @lamh36: Kamala is still my favorite Democrat. Love her.

  67. 67.

    MomSense

    April 22, 2020 at 7:59 pm

    @Sab:

    I wish I could do something more than send you a virtual hug.

  68. 68.

    Roger Moore

    April 22, 2020 at 7:59 pm

    @germy:

    Getting a horse guy to run disaster response is so 2005.

  69. 69.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 7:59 pm

    @The Moar You Know: I think you’re right (I sure hope you are).

    Two industries that 2120 American civics students will study (not!) and wonder, “WTF?”

  70. 70.

    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]

    April 22, 2020 at 8:00 pm

    @VOR: It has absolutely reached the villages. The Republican governor has been doing his utmost to keep that information from the press.   I listened to a great Slate podcast on this very thing.   Here’s the link:  https://slate.com/podcasts/what-next/2020/04/florida-nursing-homes-coronavirus

  71. 71.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 8:00 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Dr. Coffee Boy?

    Fuck these traitorous shitstains.

  72. 72.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 8:03 pm

    @dmsilev: You earned this! ?

  73. 73.

    dmsilev

    April 22, 2020 at 8:03 pm

    @germy: I’m pretty sure a labradoodle would be an improvement over Jared Kushner.

  74. 74.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 8:04 pm

    @Baud: yes – good call.  Obama did it well, with hope and change and dreams of a new era in many ways.  Hillz also did it well, but was sandbagged by 3+ decades of the Republican Noise Machine (and the Russians, and Comey).

    This time it just feels like there is a lot more unity, early, and a lot more recognition that none of our single issues will matter if we don’t win this time.  This time more than ever.

    H/t to all three of them (and the entire DJL) – they fought, and are fighting, the good fight and then some.

  75. 75.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 8:08 pm

    @dexwood: I never understood the appeal of pulling on a slot machine for days on end anyways…I’m trying to imagine how folks will “enjoy” themselves with masks on, gloves on, the nearest person 6+ feet away, conversation muffled, every cough causing folks’ heart to skip…

    …OMG three 7s!!  I just made back 10% of my losses this weekend!!

    May we get to a new paradigm, and soon…

  76. 76.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 8:08 pm

    @lamh36:

    including Mark being surprised that you’re supposed to drain the water from the can first.

    ? I guess tuna salad wasn’t big growing up.  Would’ve been funnier if he’d used tuna packed in vegetable oil.

  77. 77.

    trollhattan

    April 22, 2020 at 8:16 pm

    @Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman):

    Yeah, Vegas is like a yuge, landlocked cruise ship. Believe they’re still the largest convention spot in the States and so, books the biggest, yugest conventions that would basically need to be in contract negotiations right now for…let’s say 2023 or ’24.

  78. 78.

    Poe Larity

    April 22, 2020 at 8:18 pm

    This is what happens when you refuse his parades: Trump plans air shows around country

    Trump said the plan, named Operation America Strong, was an idea that came from military officials.

    “The Thunderbird and Blue Angel crews…wanted to show support to the American medical workers, who just like military members in a time of war, are fiercely running toward the fight,” Trump said.

    We could start a Corona Chemtrails Meme…

  79. 79.

    Jinchi

    April 22, 2020 at 8:20 pm

    @dexwood:Come to Las Vegas, Gamble With Your Lives… you know you want to.

    I think that could actually be their sales pitch.

  80. 80.

    ColoradoGuy

    April 22, 2020 at 8:20 pm

    @There go two miscreants: Grossly unsanitary “wet markets”, superstitious wild-animal consumption (aka Traditional Chinese Medicine), and cheap air travel got humanity into this mess.

    We may not be able to do anything about Chinese food preferences and TCM, but cheap (and crowded) air travel has to got to go. It’s just too damned dangerous with all the potential zoonotic viruses out there.

    I’m seriously wondering if the only viable form of air travel might be individual small cabins with 2 to 4 seats each, at premium prices, and known-safe airflows. Anything else is just rolling the dice for the next pandemic.

  81. 81.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 8:21 pm

    @Jeffro: And all of the horseshit and dogshit that comes with it.

  82. 82.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 22, 2020 at 8:23 pm

    @Baud: From Greg Siskind’s summary

    The rule largely hits negatively the following groups – Parents of US citizens Siblings of US citizens Spouses and minor children of permanent residents Green card lottery winners By the way, how do minor children of permanent residents hurt US workers?

  83. 83.

    Kent

    April 22, 2020 at 8:24 pm

    @Jeffro:

    @Baud: Biden really is an excellent “figurehead for a coalition of interests”, aka the 2020 Democratic coalition (the Obama coalition of voting blocs + a more progressive policy agenda than 2008.)

    Usually everyone seems to focus on the individual in question.  And not to take anything away from Uncle Joe, but this time it’s like at least some of the focus is on our various ‘wings’ and issues, and the most prominent figures for each wing/issue are weighing in saying “Joe’s our guy”.

    I confess, I did not see that coming.  But it’s working quite well.

    I can actually see Biden being a better president than Obama because I think he may be more likely than Obama was to bring top people into the government and then empower them.  There was a little bit of cult of Obama in the Obama White House and some very mediocre cabinet picks (Arne  Duncan, Robert Gates, Ray LaHood, and, of course, James Comey )

  84. 84.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 8:24 pm

    @Poe Larity: love that this is his idea of ‘doing something’ about fighting the pandemic.

    Right in line with gun-toting “very fine people” marching in front of statehouses and blocking ambulances.  Yes, very helpful, very helpful…

  85. 85.

    Roger Moore

    April 22, 2020 at 8:25 pm

    @ColoradoGuy:

    The problem with air travel and epidemics isn’t the risk of people catching the disease on the plane; it’s that it allows the virus to get all over the world quickly.  Coronavirus had no trouble spreading once it got to the USA (or Italy, France, etc.), so there’s no reason to think changing the layout of airplane cabins would have done a thing to stop it.

  86. 86.

    Gravenstone

    April 22, 2020 at 8:25 pm

    @germy: Ruh roh, there’s that pesky Inspector General position again. We know how Trump just hates those people. Well, he actually hates everyone not him, but that’s neither here not there.

  87. 87.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 22, 2020 at 8:26 pm

    some good news:

    (((Harry Enten))) @ForecasterEnten · 2h
    Twitter: Where the heck is Biden? Why isn’t he doing more?… Polls today from FL, MI, and PA have Biden up 4, 8, and 8. All larger leads than his longer term average in each state.

    I thought I had seen Biden up by 8, or at least more than 4, in FL, but I look at these and move on

    and more surprising (to me) good news:

    Josh Kraushaar @HotlineJosh 28m
    Fox News poll in MICHIGAN tested the state’s Senate race: Sen. Gary Peters (D) 46, John James (R) 36.

    This race has had  me nervous for a while. I relax when the polls close

  88. 88.

    lumpkin

    April 22, 2020 at 8:27 pm

    Somebody must have used a forest fire analogy to try to explain disease propagation to him and now he thinks he’s talking like a professor of epidemiology

    Edit: the “we’ve learned a lot” is the tell.

  89. 89.

    Baud

    April 22, 2020 at 8:27 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Thanks. It’s so irrational.  Hopefully, the courts strike it down.

  90. 90.

    Kent

    April 22, 2020 at 8:27 pm

    @Baud:I read that Trump threw Kemp under the bus.

    Kemp got out too far over his skis and was hogging too much TV time.

  91. 91.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    April 22, 2020 at 8:28 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    …how do minor children of permanent residents hurt US workers?

    Well, if they repeal the child labor laws…

  92. 92.

    zhena gogolia

    April 22, 2020 at 8:30 pm

    Couldn’t Trump just disappear from the face of the earth? Please?

  93. 93.

    Baud

    April 22, 2020 at 8:31 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    No one is going to redesign airplanes over this.  They’ll probably just make passengers wear masks if nothing else.

  94. 94.

    Kent

    April 22, 2020 at 8:31 pm

    @ColoradoGuy: I’m seriously wondering if the only viable form of air travel might be individual small cabins with 2 to 4 seats each, at premium prices, and known-safe airflows. Anything else is just rolling the dice for the next pandemic.

    Air travel isn’t remotely the biggest problem.  Crowded shopping malls, football stadiums, basketball arenas, crowded high schools, big suburban churches, even crowded subways and buses all have much more potential for contact with many more people than air travel does when you just sit there buckled into a seat.

    The answer is to get a vaccine for covid-19 and then do a much better job in the future of pandemic management worldwide.

  95. 95.

    Brachiator

    April 22, 2020 at 8:33 pm

    @jl:

    Trumpster/GOP is still rapidly, in the space of a few minutes, cycling through A/B/C testing of propaganda and swindler sales lines in desperate attempt to find one that will work. So far they haven’t found one that even remotely works, except with a small minority of nutcases.

    Good point. What is unfortunate is that the GOP is backing Trump just to placate him, even though his suggestions and actions are clearly wrongheaded and harmful. They continue to play politics when it is pointless to do so.

    The mainline GOP are not just as bad as Trump. They have been so entirely roped into his con that they cannot back out or try to rein him in. He would only lash out and attack them. He has suckered them into believing his bullshit. The perfect con.

    Fortunately, the smarter governors are ignoring Trump, or playing up to him just enough to get what they need from him. Sad thing, this still puts too many lives at risk. But this is where we are.

    The other thing is that Trump has abandoned any pretense that he is the leader of the free world. The only other leaders who pay any attention to him at all are fellow idiot authoritarians.

  96. 96.

    Baud

    April 22, 2020 at 8:33 pm

    @Kent:

    I can actually see Biden being a better president than Obama because I think he may be more likely than Obama was to bring top people into the government and then empower them to have an electorate that’s learned their lesson about taking people for granted.

    Fixed.

  97. 97.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 8:34 pm

     

    @Poe Larity: We could start a Corona Chemtrails Meme…

    No.  We don’t need Asshat Jones hoarsely screaming about that and gay lizard people.

  98. 98.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 22, 2020 at 8:34 pm

    @Baud: It makes perfect sense for the Orange Ogre in the WH, its red meat to his base. Immigrants even naturalized citizens are not people deserving of the same rights as naturalized citizens. We are either a revenue stream  (see David Anderson’s post on international students) or labor  required to do the work that Americans won’t do ( a frequent talking point of even the pro-immigration people) so who the fuck gives a damn about our siblings or parents especially if they are outside the United States.

    Orange gets extra points with his base for tweeting about this on Hitler’s birthday for the first time.

    I am hoping that the courts strike it down.

  99. 99.

    West of the Rockies

    April 22, 2020 at 8:35 pm

    Arrogance and ignorance form a deadly combination.

  100. 100.

    trollhattan

    April 22, 2020 at 8:36 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I relax when the polls close

    Is there an option? I had not been informed of any. I blame my education.

  101. 101.

    Citizen Alan

    April 22, 2020 at 8:36 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Would’ve been funnier if he’d used tuna packed in vegetable oil.

    Thank, I nearly puked from just thinking of that.

  102. 102.

    dexwood

    April 22, 2020 at 8:37 pm

    @Jeffro: Me neither. I live in a state that’s had Native casinos for many years. I’ve been three times, only to their concert areas for music. Walking through the gambling areas to get to the music venues was Aversion Therapy.

  103. 103.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 8:38 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Back in August of ’46?  Yes please!

  104. 104.

    Citizen Alan

    April 22, 2020 at 8:39 pm

    @Kent: My single biggest fear about President Biden is that he really will try to reach across the aisle to the Republicans. There should not be a single Republican holding an office of any importance whatsoever in a Biden Administration. Just as there should be no judicial appointments for anyone who so much as went to a Federalist Society meeting just to score some free appetizers.

  105. 105.

    trollhattan

    April 22, 2020 at 8:39 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    That’s apparently what happened to President Lindbergh. (Plot Against America reference).

  106. 106.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 8:41 pm

    @Citizen Alan: ?

  107. 107.

    Achrachno

    April 22, 2020 at 8:42 pm

     

    @Achrachno: There’s a book about the current mayor’s husband:
    Being Oscar: From Mob Lawyer to Mayor of Las Vegas

  108. 108.

    Roger Moore

    April 22, 2020 at 8:43 pm

    @Kent: 

    Air travel isn’t remotely the biggest problem.

    Air travel is a big problem. It’s how the virus got from Wuhan to the United States within weeks of the start of the outbreak. It’s not the way it spreads within a community, but it does allow it to spread between communities much faster than if we were limited to slower forms of travel.

  109. 109.

    Brachiator

    April 22, 2020 at 8:43 pm

    @ColoradoGuy:

    We may not be able to do anything about Chinese food preferences and TCM, but cheap (and crowded) air travel has to got to go. It’s just too damned dangerous with all the potential zoonotic viruses out there.

    Yeah, I remember how the Great Plague and the Spanish Flu were spread by air travel. Curious ideas here, but you can’t seriously want to ban air travel.

    I’m seriously wondering if the only viable form of air travel might be individual small cabins with 2 to 4 seats each, at premium prices, and known-safe airflows. Anything else is just rolling the dice for the next pandemic.

    Air travel only for the super rich. I imagine that Trump would love this, if only as another way to keep immigrants out.

    But I wonder whether the larger practical problem is dealing with recirculation of air on flights.

    Aside from this, any form of mass travel may need to include some degree of health screening.

  110. 110.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 8:45 pm

    @dmsilev: Your money AND your life!

  111. 111.

    dmsilev

    April 22, 2020 at 8:45 pm

    @Baud:

    No one is going to redesign airplanes over this.  They’ll probably just make passengers wear masks if nothing else.

    Or maybe airlines could increase seat pitch somewhat to improve distancing.

    Crazy talk, I know.

  112. 112.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 22, 2020 at 8:45 pm

    BTW Kushner’s scam GCs (E#B-5) for “investors” are exempt from this EO . This has zero to do with the pandemic but this what the immigration restrictionists have wanted for a long time.

  113. 113.

    Brachiator

    April 22, 2020 at 8:48 pm

    @Citizen Alan:

    My single biggest fear about President Biden is that he really will try to reach across the aisle to the Republicans. There should not be a single Republican holding an office of any importance whatsoever in a Biden Administration.

    Doesn’t really matter. The biggest problem will always be the GOP policy of complete and total obstruction.

    I would hope that Biden would be smart enough to talk bipartisanship, but to recognize reality when dealing with the GOP.

  114. 114.

    Roger Moore

    April 22, 2020 at 8:49 pm

    @dmsilev:

    Or when there’s a pandemic brewing, we could quarantine people who travel between countries.

  115. 115.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 8:49 pm

    @lamh36: I’m sorry.  I couldn’t make it through part 1.

  116. 116.

    dmsilev

    April 22, 2020 at 8:49 pm

    @Roger Moore: I read that airlines had, mainly for cost reasons, pushed back on various initiative to systematize contact tracing of all passengers in the event of an outbreak. That’s something which could (should) become not-optional once air travel recovers to above where it was in 1954.

  117. 117.

    different-church-lady

    April 22, 2020 at 8:51 pm

    Mayor: Assuming you’re correct..

    Tur: There’s no assuming that I’m correct. Those are the numbers

    It took tens of thousands of deaths, but apparently the media is finally waking up and pushing back against the relentless half-assed gaslighting attempts nearly every member of the GOP has adopted.

  118. 118.

    dmsilev

    April 22, 2020 at 8:51 pm

    @Roger Moore: Definitely an option. At a bare minimum, screening for anyone who is obviously symptomatic (showing a fever, in this case) and requiring them to quarantine.

  119. 119.

    rikyrah

    April 22, 2020 at 8:55 pm

     

    ‘Open the Economy’ Is the New ‘White Lives Matter’ https://www.theroot.com/open-the-economy-is-the-new-white-lives-matter-1842987034/amp

  120. 120.

    Gin & Tonic

    April 22, 2020 at 8:56 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Read his blog and still have no idea how my son and DIL are affected. He’s a citizen, she isn’t, they got married last August and filed for a green card, then left the US and are abroad for at least another 4-5 months.

  121. 121.

    zhena gogolia

    April 22, 2020 at 8:56 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    I was going to say, she’s the “sez who” lady, but she isn’t. But she does occasionally push back with people, more than most of them do.

  122. 122.

    different-church-lady

    April 22, 2020 at 8:58 pm

    @dmsilev: It’s Vegas: I’m not seeing a downside.

  123. 123.

    Kirk Spencer

    April 22, 2020 at 8:58 pm

    @Roger Moore: So here’s the deal – we are not getting rid of air travel. To me the cornerstone of /why/, and hence the source of the heavy subsidization of the industry, is the Civil Reserve Air Fleet.

    Basically, the military strategic thinkers believe(d) that wars are going to happen on other continents, and our obligations and necessities would require shuttling a lot of people into that/those theaters. Some fairly bright people realized that given that requirement, it was a heck of a lot cheaper for the US to make a deal with civilian air carriers to keep up trained personnel and well-maintained aircraft vs the US having a military only seldom-used fleet for the express purpose.

    So we get cheap air travel. Any ‘cures’ that start with ending air travel that don’t deal with the underlying cause are as useful as discussing paint schemes to cover the mildewed walls of the house.

  124. 124.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 22, 2020 at 8:59 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Spouses of American citizens are not affected. This will be challenged in the courts. He is treating GC holders worse than temporary visa holders in this EO.

  125. 125.

    Brachiator

    April 22, 2020 at 9:00 pm

    @Kent:

    Air travel isn’t remotely the biggest problem.  Crowded shopping malls, football stadiums, basketball arenas, crowded high schools, big suburban churches, even crowded subways and buses all have much more potential for contact with many more people than air travel does when you just sit there buckled into a seat.

    Yep. Human beings as social animals makes us vulnerable. We’re gonna need a vaccine for this.

  126. 126.

    Mike in NC

    April 22, 2020 at 9:02 pm

    If Fat Bastard insists on digging a deeper hole, let’s keep throwing him more shovels.

  127. 127.

    rikyrah

    April 22, 2020 at 9:04 pm

    Maddow is going over the nursing home deaths

  128. 128.

    Gin & Tonic

    April 22, 2020 at 9:05 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Except her visa expired and her GC application is who-knows-where, so she currently has no legal entry.

  129. 129.

    different-church-lady

    April 22, 2020 at 9:05 pm

    @Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman):

    A girl I went to high school with lives in Vegas and works in the trade show industry, and she was told by management that the earliest they could expect to resume shows would be next year.

    Yes, I was on a Zoom yesterday with an events company, and their man-in-Vegas said the same thing. The pipeline for these things can be years long. You don’t just “start things back up”. Even if you start planning things right now they won’t happen in the blink of an eye.

  130. 130.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    April 22, 2020 at 9:06 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s Trump, it’s quite possible he doesn’t know and he senses that he doesn’t want you to know the answer ether. Trump, prince of darkness.

  131. 131.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    April 22, 2020 at 9:09 pm

    @germy: “Sacrifice the Weak” – imagine not just thinking of this but actually writing it out AND taking it out on the street in Nashville, Tennessee.

    Politics of white male mid life crises.  That’s why there are people showing up to the “protests” dressed as ninja’s with assault rifles.

  132. 132.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 9:11 pm

    @Kent: The answer is to get a vaccine for covid-19 and then do a much better job in the future of pandemic management worldwide.

     

    Plus also beating anti-vaxxers over the head, but yes, you nailed it.

  133. 133.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 22, 2020 at 9:11 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:  Has her I-130 has been approved?

  134. 134.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 9:12 pm

    @Brachiator: test, test, test the world…however many times it takes.

    test, trace, isolate until we have a vaccine.

    knock the anti-vaxxers senseless

    and then invest* so that this never happens again

    *I have a good idea where to find the money…let’s just say it was all accumulated over the past 40 years…

  135. 135.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    April 22, 2020 at 9:13 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: huh, seems he’s extra-racially resentful tonight– “the Obamas”…. I wonder if that plural was trump or Rupar

    Obama endorsement of Biden (Obama bin Biden? sorry, erm my sense of humor….erm) gave Biden 5pt bump in the polls over Stable Genius, so knowing Trump, Trump is pissed that Obama didn’t endorse Trump for a second term.

  136. 136.

    Mnemosyne

    April 22, 2020 at 9:13 pm

    @Kent:

    There was a little bit of cult of Obama in the Obama White House and some very mediocre cabinet picks (Arne Duncan, Robert Gates, Ray LaHood, and, of course, James Comey )

    I’m not sure if that was due to a “cult of Obama” or if they felt they needed to try and appease the Republicans with picks that they couldn’t object to (except for Arne Duncan, who was a terrible pick by everyone’s standards).

    Biden won’t need to publicly appease the Republicans because their failure will be completely obvious to everyone by the time November rolls around.

  137. 137.

    Gin & Tonic

    April 22, 2020 at 9:15 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I don’t know.

  138. 138.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 9:16 pm

    @dexwood: apologies to the gamblers out there, but yeah, it’s like “is this the best thing you could be doing with your time and resources?  Are you that bad at probability/math?”

    Erg.

    I mean, if I just want to stare at a screen and randomly throw stuff out there to no effect…I’ve got Ballon Juice, and (for now) it’s free ;)

  139. 139.

    different-church-lady

    April 22, 2020 at 9:16 pm

    @Baud: That’s good to see. The numbers on white voters Rikyrah posted a couple of days ago scared the shit out of me.

  140. 140.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 22, 2020 at 9:17 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: That is the application for intent to immigrate for a relative which your son must have filed when they filed for her GC. You can travel and return to the country provided that you are not out of the country for more than 6 months on the basis of an approved I-130 or I-140

    You get provisional travel permission and a work permit on the basis of an approved 1-140 or 1-130

    I wish your son and DIL good luck. I hope they are in touch with their immigration lawyer.

  141. 141.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 9:17 pm

    @Brachiator: per your last line…add on-the-spot temperature-taking to the list of things that air travelers will have to subject themselves to in the future when they arrive at the airport.

    which is fine, but the complaining about it will be unbearable.

  142. 142.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    April 22, 2020 at 9:17 pm

    The vaccine testing blocking is one thing that makes utterly no sense to me. Beyond if we had a vaccine for this crap this would make this go away like a bad dream and turn into a two quarter mess, not a three year mess, England today announced it’s started clinical tries on a vaccine.   So we will be paying England for it, and it’s going to come out we could have had the cure ourselves and Trump blocked it. How does that work? I suppose it’s another example about utterly inept the Trump admin is.

  143. 143.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 22, 2020 at 9:18 pm

    Well done.

    This ad is phenomenal. “Are you better off than you were four years ago?” pic.twitter.com/xeiYBMaL4j— Adam Smith (@AdamJSmithGA) April 23, 2020

  144. 144.

    Gvg

    April 22, 2020 at 9:20 pm

    @Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]: The Villages are not nursing homes. The Villages is a very large set of suburbs aimed at moderately well off retirees who are not yet in need of nursing homes. They buy an amazing number of golf carts and socialize with each other. Tend conservative and a lot of sexually transmitted diseases.

    Yes, the corona virus has hit them, but so far it hasn’t been catastrophe like predictions.

    the nursing home thing is all over the state, not the villages.

  145. 145.

    hueyplong

    April 22, 2020 at 9:20 pm

    This is absolutely the time for Nancy Pelosi or Barak Obama to go on television and say: “Under no circumstances is anyone to try the totally untested orally administered liquid bleach.  It’s an unvetted anti-coronovirus treatment, and absolutely not a miracle cure that could get Donald Trump off the hook for his failures.

    “Do not take a chance.  And, yes, I’m looking down at you in an elitist way as I order you not to drink that bleach, you gun-totin’, Bible-clutching, flyover country rubes.”

  146. 146.

    Jeffro

    April 22, 2020 at 9:21 pm

    @different-church-lady: this is all they have left…this is what trumpov has either led them to or is their logical endpoint of where they were going anyway.

    Just lie outright and then fight it out…claim “both sides”…blame the media…trust on a low-info, low-standards public…

    Hell, Josh Hawley was trying to get rid of the ACA and its protections for pre-existing conditions when he was Missouri’s AG at. the. same. time. he was telling campaign crowds that he would “always protect those with pre-existing conditions”.

    He won.

    The GOP is like, “so we didn’t have to finesse this stuff all along?  We could have just been outright lying and still win??1!?”

  147. 147.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    April 22, 2020 at 9:23 pm

    @Brachiator:

    We returned to MIA from Roatan (Honduras) on 3/14/2020. We’ve both traveled through temp screening checks in Asia and Africa in the past – typically, masked, gloved teams have checked temps quickly with handheld devices, quarantine teams standing by.

    At MIA on 3/14, there was nothing – we were completely shocked. No spacing at Global Entry, no fluid or wipes for the machines, and the TSA guy at precheck on connecting flights was handling all the IDs.

  148. 148.

    joel hanes

    April 22, 2020 at 9:23 pm

    @dexwood:

    Vegas mayor was married to a mob lawyer who defended Meyer Lansky, among others.

  149. 149.

    joel hanes

    April 22, 2020 at 9:24 pm

    @Baud:

    Sec. Clinton did not set out to be a larger-than-life figure.   She tried to counter that, to no avail.

    It was done to her,   At great expense.

  150. 150.

    dmsilev

    April 22, 2020 at 9:26 pm

    @different-church-lady: There’s an annual conference I go to, not huge by convention-hall standards (maybe 11 or 12 thousand people). The organizers generally book a venue 4 years in advance.

  151. 151.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    April 22, 2020 at 9:26 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    I’ll be happy to go to Las Vegas next year, after there is either a complete burnout of this pig or a vaccine.

  152. 152.

    Kent

    April 22, 2020 at 9:26 pm

    @Mnemosyne:I’m not sure if that was due to a “cult of Obama” or if they felt they needed to try and appease the Republicans with picks that they couldn’t object to (except for Arne Duncan, who was a terrible pick by everyone’s standards).

    I’m speaking in the more general sense that it seems that getting Obama in office was the final and highest objective of a lot the Obama administration and they did very little to build bench in state and local areas.  They had built the best grass roots organization ever built by far, and just let it atrophy after the election.  It was a little bit Sanders-esque in that way.

    I was and still am a huge Obama fan. But if I had to criticize him and his administration, it was that the took their feet off the gas pedal and didn’t really do what they needed to do to continue building a durable Democratic majority.   They sort of just crouched and watched the tea party happen.  Republicans don’t do that.

  153. 153.

    Gin & Tonic

    April 22, 2020 at 9:29 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: They will have been out of the country for more than 6 months by the time his work is done.

    I know they’re in touch with their attorney, and I try not to ask a lot of questions, but he’s stressed by this and therefore so am I.

  154. 154.

    HumboldtBlue

    April 22, 2020 at 9:30 pm

    @Jeffro:

    Usually everyone seems to focus on the individual in question. And not to take anything away from Uncle Joe, but this time it’s like at least some of the focus is on our various ‘wings’ and issues, and the most prominent figures for each wing/issue are weighing in saying “Joe’s our guy”.

    Thanks for expressing what I was thinking.

  155. 155.

    Jinchi

    April 22, 2020 at 9:33 pm

    Trump reportedly threatened to fire a top doctor at the CDC for sounding the alarm about the coronavirus in February

    While Trump did not end up firing Messonnier, The New York Times reported that the entire episode effectively killed any efforts to persuade Trump to take decisive action to mitigate the virus.

    Cue Fox citing this as proof that the whole debacle is Messonnier’s fault. If she hadn’t gotten him so angry, he would have acted sooner.

  156. 156.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 22, 2020 at 9:34 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: IANAL but she should return before the 6 months are up. Falling out of status when your GC is in process is  bad  even in normal circumstances and with these cray cray people in charge that’s a risk not worth taking.

    As I understand it, filings within the United States are not affected  by this order. So she will have more options once she is back.

  157. 157.

    cain

    April 22, 2020 at 9:41 pm

    @MisterForkbeard:

    People better be going to jail when we get the white house and the senate. I mean, a full disclosure of everything – and there will be jail time. It’s completely indefensible.

    I don’t want to hear any kind of kumbaya nonsense.. these people do not believe we are one country.. they want to claim it for themselves – we don’t have to do anything to make them happy. Giving them the nod only extends their political power.

  158. 158.

    hitchhiker

    April 22, 2020 at 9:43 pm

    Are any of you reading the front-line-dispatch type articles printed in the New Yorker or the NYT? I mean the ones written by ER doctors and floor nurses and ICU staff. They’re monumentally disturbing, as in, Susan Collins would never come out from under her bed again if she knew these details.

    And trump would shit himself if he had to walk around one of these hospitals, even for half an hour. It’s pathetic that all that news juice is getting drained with dumb brag fests, and huge swaths of the USA are oblivious.

  159. 159.

    Ksmiami

    April 22, 2020 at 9:47 pm

    @Mnemosyne: As far as I’m concerned, the only outreach We Democrats need to do to the GOP maggots is extending our arms as we lift them onto tumbrels

  160. 160.

    Kent

    April 22, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: They can turn you away at the border for nearly any damn reason unless you hold a US passport.  Seems like playing with fire to do that these days.  But people have to make their own decisions I guess.

  161. 161.

    Miss Bianca

    April 22, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    @dmsilev: The only Labradoodle breeder I know is a Democrat and very sensible, and I’d trust her over a thousand Jared Kushners. No – a million.

    (I did send the Twitter link to her – could not resist).

  162. 162.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 22, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    @Kent:

     They sort of just crouched and watched the tea party happen.

    While passing the Stimulus and the ACA, most of which involved arguing with, while carefully not alienating, other elected Democrats (Max Baucus didn’t want to damage his working friendship with Chuck Grassley; Joe Lieberman wanted revenge for… everything), in the face of well-financed and often border-line pathological opposition, with “allies” like Ed Rendell and James Carville trolling Obama for not being Bill Clinton, and people like Jane Hamsher and Ed Schultz (remember poor old addle-pated Ed?) and much if not most of the liberal blogosphere (as we used to say) trolling him for not being the benign dictator of their foot-stampy dreams (that’s how I wound up here, I found out not all lefties were as nuts as the ones at Eschaton).

    Republicans don’t do that.

    Republicans have: A) limitless cash B) party discipline C) rabidly committed grass-roots activists, C and B being not unrelated to A. We have an army of tweeters who have spent the last week in a frothy-mouthed rage over Nancy Pelosi’s freezer

  163. 163.

    joel hanes

    April 22, 2020 at 9:51 pm

    @Kent:

    They had built the best grass roots organization ever built by far, and just let it atrophy after the election.

    I have always blamed Rahm Emmanuel for this — Emmanuel’s behavior in the years after being replaced as chief of staff have amply demonstrated his burning hatred of leaving any agency in grassroots Democratic organizations.   It’s clear he thinks that he should have total control from the top.

    Of course, Obama chose Rahm, and bears responsibility for the consequences.

  164. 164.

    Miss Bianca

    April 22, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    @ColoradoGuy: Ahem…ColoradoGuy…this ColoradoGal eats wild game. It’s not really that exotic a habit.

  165. 165.

    cain

    April 22, 2020 at 9:56 pm

    @dexwood:

    What you catch in Las Vegas.. oh wait.. never mind.

  166. 166.

    Miss Bianca

    April 22, 2020 at 9:56 pm

    @Brachiator:

    The only other leaders who pay any attention to him at all are fellow idiot authoritarians.

    Speaking of which…I wonder what the latest is on Kim Jong Il? Anyone seen Adam in the comments this eve?

  167. 167.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    April 22, 2020 at 9:58 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: August of ’46?  So you’re giving baby Donald 2 months?  You’re getting soft.

    (Trump’s b-day is Flag Day.)

  168. 168.

    Kent

    April 22, 2020 at 10:00 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: All of that is true.

    That doesn’t negate my point that I think Biden has less of an ego than Obama and that a Biden administration would be more about getting shit done and less about worshiping Biden or making sure he gets credit.  That’s just my sense of the guy.

    I thought Obama was a great president, the favorite in my lifetime for sure.  But I don’t think he did all he could have done to build the party and lay out a future beyond his presidency.

  169. 169.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    April 22, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Human beings as social animals makes us vulnerable.

    Guess I’m safe then, since I’m antisocial.

  170. 170.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 22, 2020 at 10:07 pm

    The categories of Green Cards that this executive order takes aim at are the categories the Orange Person has been wanting to get rid of since 2017.

    1. siblings of citizens

    2. parents of citizens

    3. spouses and children of GC holders

    4. Diversity visa

  171. 171.

    TS (the original)

    April 22, 2020 at 10:12 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Well Orange has signed the EO for the total immigration ban.

    Probably save more lives if he stopped people leaving.

  172. 172.

    HumboldtBlue

    April 22, 2020 at 10:13 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Jane Hamsher

    Fuck, it’s been a while since I read that name.

  173. 173.

    cain

    April 22, 2020 at 10:16 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    And those of us old timers can’t help but remember our blog host talking about the “Jane Hamshers of the left” . :-)

  174. 174.

    Ruckus

    April 22, 2020 at 10:16 pm

    @Jeffro:

    I used to have to go to LV every year for my job. One year I had to make 3 trips in one month. A trade show, a sporting event and our awards banquet. I don’t use this word lightly but I fucking HATE Las Vegas. With unbridled passion HATE. At least the glass work at the Bellagio is amazing to see and there are a number of actually good restaurants around town.

  175. 175.

    James E Powell

    April 22, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    @Kent:

    I can actually see Biden being a better president than Obama because I think he may be more likely than Obama was to bring top people into the government and then empower them.

    Please. Let’s not forget that in the Obama years, the Democrats in the senate and house still included a rather large contingent of Blue Dogs, many of whom were key senate chairs.

    People talk about how the party has moved to the left. The cause for the big change is that it’s no longer dragged to the right by the Blue Dogs.

  176. 176.

    James E Powell

    April 22, 2020 at 10:24 pm

     

    @Baud:

    I read that Trump threw Kemp under the bus.

    @Kent:

    Kemp got out too far over his skis and was hogging too much TV time.

    All this figurative speech!  What happened?

  177. 177.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 22, 2020 at 10:27 pm

    @Kent: without denying that Obama has an ego, I’d argue that Biden just expresses his differently, from his inability to admit error or apologize– remember “Cory should apologize to me!”– to his (to me, disturbing) cult of his own family– “my word as a Biden”, picking up the clan flag from his fallen son, etc.

    that said, this

    a Biden administration would be more about getting shit done and less about worshiping Biden or making sure he gets credit.

    the implications here are baffling. You were watching a different presidency than I.

  178. 178.

    cain

    April 22, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    @cain:

    Whelp here it is ! – https://balloon-juice.com/2006/03/24/who-needs-ann-coulter/#comment-147679

  179. 179.

    cain

    April 22, 2020 at 10:29 pm

    @James E Powell:

    The rage we had with the blue dogs who are just moderate republicans in disguise. Now of course they would be left wing paramilitary zealots.

  180. 180.

    patroclus

    April 22, 2020 at 10:31 pm

    @James E Powell: I read that Trump nutmegged Kemp.  And that he threw him a high hard one.  I heard that he aced him with a can-opener, and left him holding the bag…

  181. 181.

    TS (the original)

    April 22, 2020 at 10:31 pm

    @MattF:  from your link

    This is supposed to be a great nation, not a racket run by a bunch of smirking grifters.

    Defines trump & co rather well.

  182. 182.

    Ruckus

    April 22, 2020 at 10:31 pm

    @ColoradoGuy:

    Only about 1% of the people would be able to fly, given the economics of flying like that. And they have/can afford their own planes.

  183. 183.

    A Ghost to Most

    April 22, 2020 at 10:37 pm

    Among the things I learned today, along with how to safely produce ethanol from a still:

    A gathering of covidiots is called a covfefe.

  184. 184.

    Kent

    April 22, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    @James E Powell:All this figurative speech!  What happened?

    Trump outright said that he strongly disagreed with Kemp’s reopening of some businesses.  Because he wasn’t following the Trump Administration’s guidelines for re-opening.

  185. 185.

    Bill Arnold

    April 22, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    @dexwood:

    Come to Las Vegas, Gamble With Your Lives… you know you want to.

    House usually wins.

  186. 186.

    Yutsano

    April 22, 2020 at 10:44 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I know someone who got married on Flag Day.

    Dammit. I really respect him too. I’m pretty sure he had no idea. Of course he was also eloping so…

  187. 187.

    Ruckus

    April 22, 2020 at 10:46 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Jimmy Carter seems to me to be one of the very few presidents without an oversized ego. And some were actually deserving of a bit of ego. And at least in my lifetime President Obama seemed to have his ego in better control than the rest I’ve seen. How could you stand up in front of an audience and ask people to vote for you without an ego of some substance? So under my premise, yes Joe Biden has an ego. trump has about 12 of them and they are all completely fucked up. Hell I have an ego, it’s allowed me to stand up at a podium and give a speech to 500 people without notes, being laughed at or booed off stage, to talk on a PA to thousands of people, to be on live TV. We all have egos, some have egos that makes them think they are better than everyone else, with a lifetime career batting average that only exists to the far right of the decimal point.

  188. 188.

    Kent

    April 22, 2020 at 10:48 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I was in education for the entire Obama Administration so my perspective may be somewhat distorted by the Obama Administration’s utter fuckup with public education.  From the worshiping of the charter school grifters, to the Race to the Top nonsense, to going all-in on standardized testing and the Common Core, as well as their science counterpart, the “Next Generation Science Standards” or NGSS.  The Obama folks basically bought the elite narrative on public education hook, line, and sinker.  Public education was probably more fucked up when he left office than when he entered.  But a lot of that was state cuts during the 2008 recession that were never completely restored.

    But he was in an incredibly tough spot as the first black president.  And had to put up with endless media-driven bullshit like that famous beer summit with the racist cop.  Perhaps he did as much as he could have given the sideboards imposed by our racist society.

    I’m just trying to be hopeful about the prospects of a Biden presidency.

  189. 189.

    James E Powell

    April 22, 2020 at 10:50 pm

    @patroclus:

    I read that Trump nutmegged Kemp.  And that he threw him a high hard one.  I heard that he aced him with a can-opener, and left him holding the bag…

    Apparently Kemp’s mouth was writing checks his ass couldn’t cash.

  190. 190.

    rikyrah

    April 22, 2020 at 10:50 pm

    ????
    This should go to a respite thread.

    this is the best thing I’ve seen online in a minute. ? pic.twitter.com/3E71oLSElv— vaun (@_Vaun) April 22, 2020

  191. 191.

    rikyrah

    April 22, 2020 at 10:53 pm

    @Cermet:

    ????

  192. 192.

    Fair Economist

    April 22, 2020 at 10:54 pm

    @Roger Moore: This outbreak has shown what a problem air travel creates spreading an epidemic. When the first sequences came out of the Netherlands they were spread all over the SARS2 tree – every major lineage had multiple representatives, and almost every one of the 20 or so sequences in that one small country was a separate introduction. Just horrifying.

  193. 193.

    rikyrah

    April 22, 2020 at 10:57 pm

    @Gravenstone:

    Vegas casinos are human Petri dishes ????

  194. 194.

    rikyrah

    April 22, 2020 at 10:59 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    ?????

  195. 195.

    Aleta

    April 22, 2020 at 11:04 pm

    @There go two miscreants:

    In graphic story form:  A Once-in-a-Century Pandemic
    by Joyce Rice, Eleri Harris and Sarah Mirk

    We’re repeating a lot of the same mistakes from the 1918 “Spanish Flu” H1N1 outbreak.

    https://thenib.com/1918-spanish-flu/

    Contrasts the actions taken by St. Louis and (not taken by) Philadelphia

  196. 196.

    J R in WV

    April 22, 2020 at 11:15 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Well Orange has signed the EO for the total immigration ban.

    Brilliant! Morally wrong, industrially wrong, indefensible in so many ways!

    Who will harvest the fruits and vegetables?

    Who will be the resident doctors in rural hospitals?

    Who will be staff in residential nursing homes?

    Who will write the code for government projects?

    No one will~!!~

  197. 197.

    khead

    April 22, 2020 at 11:17 pm

    @VOR:

    I only kinda skimmed the thread so I don’t know if anyone else answered, but this shit has been a bit of a bugaboo of mine since I saw a bunch of jackasses in The Villages say they were more worried about their investments than their lives last month.  The virus is starting to blow through the area like a hurricane now.

  198. 198.

    Yutsano

    April 22, 2020 at 11:18 pm

    @J R in WV: Veggies and fruits are already getting plowed under. We’re already getting screwed food wise. Might as well ruin a bunch of other sectors of the economy at the same time.

  199. 199.

    sanjeevs

    April 22, 2020 at 11:21 pm

    @Jinchi: The Messonier story came out today in a big story in the WSJ which was an attempt by the Trump administration to put all the blame on Azar

  200. 200.

    Amir Khalid

    April 22, 2020 at 11:32 pm

    @sanjeevs:

    I just googled Dr Messonnier and learned that she is Rod Rosenstein’s sister. Could that have been a contributing factor in her silencing?

  201. 201.

    sanjeevs

    April 22, 2020 at 11:35 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Maybe. Here’s what the WSJ says

     

    On Feb. 25, Nancy Messonnier, a CDC official, said the agency was preparing for a potential pandemic and that community spread of the virus was likely. The stock market plunged.

    At a media briefing later that day, Mr. Azar sought to quell concerns, saying the virus was “contained.”

    But it was too late. A furious Mr. Trump, flying back to Washington from India, called Mr. Azar and threatened to oust Dr. Messonnier.

    The next day, the president announced he was putting Vice President Pence in charge of the federal response—news Mr. Azar learned a few hours before the announcement

  202. 202.

    Yutsano

    April 22, 2020 at 11:36 pm

    @Amir Khalid: We know he’s that petty. But that’s assuming knowledge on his part that I don’t think he has the interest to retain. Simplest answer is she made him look bad. The relationship deal is just gravy.

  203. 203.

    danielx

    April 22, 2020 at 11:40 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    I believe It (It being the orange one) raised that point.

  204. 204.

    Jinchi

    April 22, 2020 at 11:43 pm

    @cain: Whelp here it is !

    Huh! It all started with an argument about whether Ben Domenech is a racist.

    Did we ever figure that one out?

  205. 205.

    danielx

    April 22, 2020 at 11:43 pm

    I have to say I don’t really don’t want to hear any of that “look forward and not back” bullshit this time around. It didn’t buy Obama anything last time around, it never does – it just leads to the continued belief on the part of corrupt rich assholes that there are no consequences for anything they do. I want to see some people doing some time in prison, and not any Club Fed resorts either. I’d love to see William Barr’s fat ass doing the perp walk, just to name one example. I want to see video of FBI agents breaking down the door to Betsy DeVos’ house and marching her out in her nightgown and robe. I want to see Stephen Miller in the dock at the Hague.

  206. 206.

    joel hanes

    April 22, 2020 at 11:43 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Went to Vegas once, for a game-bird breeders’ convention.  (My wife was interested.)

    Never never never again.

  207. 207.

    smedley the uncertain

    April 22, 2020 at 11:48 pm

    @hueyplong: Actually, the Dr. is being reassigned to a lesser position in the HHR medical hierarchy.  Two stories floating out there. One, he was not  a team player, and took too long making decisions, and “was all about himself”.  But, according to him he got crosswise on the Malaria Pill debacle saying it wouldn’t be effective.   Ya pays your money and you takes your choice.

  208. 208.

    danielx

    April 22, 2020 at 11:48 pm

    Moderation?

    And I didn’t even say “fuck Donald Trump with a rusty garden tool”, not once.

  209. 209.

    cain

    April 23, 2020 at 12:04 am

    @Jinchi:

    I dont know.. he is a dick though. Who would have thought we were fighting about the future Mr. Meghan McCain!

    Yeah, that was a pretty epic thread.. the people there are a completely different mix of people than now.. it used to be a mix of conservatives and progressives. During the 2008 election most of the conservatives left.

  210. 210.

    Anya

    April 23, 2020 at 12:21 am

    @Kent: A great president who destroyed the party who assembled a mediocre government. Wow…

    Guess I lived through a different Obama era.

  211. 211.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    April 23, 2020 at 12:23 am

    @danielx:

    And I didn’t even say “fuck Donald Trump with a rusty garden tool”, not once.

    There’s your problem.

  212. 212.

    Anya

    April 23, 2020 at 12:26 am

    @Amir Khalid: It shouldn’t be because being Rosenstein’s sister won’t matter to Rosenstein. He’ll betray his sister and throw her under the bus in a New York minute just like he did to the country and the DOJ.

  213. 213.

    neldob

    April 23, 2020 at 12:26 am

    Am I the only one who never saw this guy before: Ticked Off Vic : A Message to the Government. The O’Reilly of the left? Antidote to David Brooks commentary? NSFW.

  214. 214.

    patrick II

    April 23, 2020 at 12:32 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    Perhaps, but  Mitt Romney’s daughter Ronna McDaniel is RNC chair. She had been calling herself Ronna Romney McDaniel, but that has changed.

  215. 215.

    rikyrah

    April 23, 2020 at 12:33 am

    @Sab:

    {{{HUGS}}}

  216. 216.

    patrick II

    April 23, 2020 at 12:33 am

    @danielx:

    You don’t get moderated for that, you get to be a front-pager.

  217. 217.

    Anya

    April 23, 2020 at 12:35 am

    @patrick II: She’s his niece not daughter and she sided with Trump against her uncle. Family gatherings must be super awkward.

  218. 218.

    Mary G

    April 23, 2020 at 12:38 am

    @patrick II: She’s Mitt’s niece.

  219. 219.

    Suzanne

    April 23, 2020 at 12:50 am

    @Roger Moore:

    and even Trump’s loyal followers will start doubting him when people they know are hospitalized or dead 

    Do you really believe that? I absolutely do not.

  220. 220.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    April 23, 2020 at 1:00 am

    @Suzanne: If only the Czar knew.

  221. 221.

    Brachiator

    April 23, 2020 at 1:13 am

    @Kent:

    I was in education for the entire Obama Administration so my perspective may be somewhat distorted by the Obama Administration’s utter fuckup with public education.

    Yes. It is.

  222. 222.

    Another Scott

    April 23, 2020 at 1:22 am

    One for Steve in the ATL:

    I know just barely enough labor law to have thought at the time that this was characteristically dumb. Now it’s going to cost him a pretty ringgit https://t.co/zbhYHkuXo8

    — UntakenCareOfHat (@Popehat) April 23, 2020

    Cheers,
    Scott/

  223. 223.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    April 23, 2020 at 3:30 am

    So apparently Trump whole game is what ever the governors do, it’s wrong.

    https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/coronavirus-georgia-trump-kemp-233804652.html

    President Donald Trump says he disagrees “very strongly” with Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp’s decision to reopen portions of the state’s businesses this weekend despite the growing coronavirus pandemic.

    “I love those people that use all those things, the spas and the beauty parlors, I love them, but they can wait a little longer, just a little bit, not much, but safety has to predominate,” Trump said Wednesday during a coronavirus task force briefing at the White House. “It’s just too soon.”

    Last Sunday it was “oh the social distancing is just PC, we should get back to work” and when one of Trump’s boot lickers takes Trump up on it…

  224. 224.

    Procopius

    April 23, 2020 at 3:31 am

    @debbie: She should have known it’s politically incorrect to ever compare a Jewish person to a Nazi. Should have compared her to Rehoboam. Trouble is most of the mainstream Protestants don’t have any idea who Rehoboam was nor why the tribes of Judah rose up in revolt against him. “My father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.” Great slogan to subdue social unrest.

  225. 225.

    trnc

    April 23, 2020 at 7:48 am

    @dmsilev: ‘I’ve never heard of him’ is probably true, but every bit as damning.

    Did anyone follow up with, “Since you didn’t know who he was or that he was fired, now that you know he had an important role, why haven’t you hired him back?”

  226. 226.

    There go two miscreants

    April 23, 2020 at 7:56 am

    @Aleta:  Yes, that is a good presentation in graphic form! There _is_ still some debate about where it originated, but Barry cites what seems to be good evidence that it actually started in Kansas, and spread first to a large, newly-constructed Army camp nearby. He does note that there is a debate on the point (which really is a bit moot anyway).

  227. 227.

    chopper

    April 23, 2020 at 2:03 pm

    @There go two miscreants:

    one thing that really helped spanish flu along was governments like the US lying about it and censoring information. never thought we’d repeat the exact same mistake a hundred years later but here we are.

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