I have been loathe to talk about this for a number of reasons, some large and some small, but Biden has addressed the nation this morning and I might as well rip off this band aid and put out my first and last thoughts on the issue. Obviously, if new information comes to light, I am willing to reconsider my opinion.
I didn’t want to talk about this because I didn’t want to spend hours explaining to people the difference between listening to women and believing them. The recent events around #metoo have been based on decades of women not even being listened to regarding sexual harassment and assault. They couldn’t even get a fair hearing- it was just dismissed out of hand- “Boys will be boys” or “He’s like that with everyone” or the victim blaming bullshit like “she was drunk” or “her skirt was too short.” It was about women’s claims being summarily dismissed. It was not about just believeing any allegation made.
I didn’t want to talk about it because so many women have been harassed, assaulted, and raped, that the issue itself causes trauma.
I didn’t want to talk about it because so many of the people pushing it are Bernie dead-enders and right wing stooges just trying to fuck Democrats.
I didn’t want to talk about it because Biden was not my first, second, or third choice and I thought he should have just spent his retirement as a beloved former VP.
And on and on. But here we fucking are, so there is no point beating around the bush. I don’t believe her. Unlike other prominent victims who I do believe, her story has constantly shifted, is undocumented and unverifiable, seems politically motivated,and just does not pass the smell test. You can read some of the summations here, here, here, and here, and the last is a link to Patterico, WHO HATES DEMOCRATS and LOATHED the Obama/Biden administration.
I don’t buy the latest bit from the neighbor, either. If my neighbor came to me and said she was raped by Joe Biden, and I believed her, there is no fucking way in hell I would vote for Joe Biden.
And you know what? I don’t think Team Obama would have missed this in their vetting process.
None of it adds up, it all smells, and I simply do not believe her at this point. You are free to disagree, and should new and verifiable and credible evidence emerge, I will readdress the subject. But for me, right now, other than the political implications, the subject is closed. I would also note that the Republicans learned from Franken (and I am not going into whether or not he was actually guilty)- but they learned you can take a Democrat who scares them out real quick, so expect EVERY Democratic Presidential nominee to be accused of something like this every election from here on out. Which is just another fucking reason we should have had Harris or Warren, but I digress.
I respectfully ask you to behave in the comments section. I personally don’t give a shit if you agree with me or not or think I am the biggest asshole on the planet for my position, but there are a lot of women who have been sexually assaulted everywhere, and that includes on this website, and this issue can be triggering and traumatic. So be cognizant of that and try not to be your usual jerk self.
JPL
This is the reason that I don’t believe her, she said Biden told her she means nothing to him. Does that sound like the man we know? The current president talks like that, not Biden. Her story has changed so often, that she might rephrase that also.
trollhattan
Yup, all of it. And now that he’s addressed it he’s smart enough to make today’s his last word, lacking anything of substance in the future. Nothing about this has me feeling as though it’s got legs. The virus and presidential idiocy will sweep back in and grab the headlines.
This didn’t deserve headlines to begin with.
Radiumgirl
Count on it. If Harris or Warren were the nominee, they’d dig up some pretty boy to claim those women had harrassed him.
Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)
If it was Warren, the Repubs would trot out her alleged affair with a former Marine.
Never mind that it’d show that she’s definitely not “low energy”. ?
lee
If you want to put on a tinfoil hat for a bit. This twitter thread is interesting about some of her tweets. It seems her command of the English language is rather fluid.
eric
Bait and Switch. We will go from Reade to his Senate Papers by the Sunday shows. The Press will say that he denied it, but to get to the heart of those claims we need the papers — the same papers we never got to see when he ran for Vice President twice….the same papers that likely have policy positions that undermine the party’s move to the Left. This game is easy.
geg6
@Radiumgirl:
THIS.
schrodingers_cat
Morning Hoes can stuff it and all other assorted MSM personalities can stuff it. We have 60,000 dead people. The WH has put in place a permanent immigration ban. This is a fucking distraction that helps no one but the Orange King in the WH and his monstrous party and their patrons in Russia.
rikyrah
” Believe all women?”
No, I don’t think so.
This is a response to someone on Twitter for trying to ‘ shame’ Reade by branding her a liar.
…………………………………
Liars should called liars whether they are women or men. Ask Brian Banks about false accusations or Emmett Till. GTFOH with this we got to believe women even when they are not credible bullshit. I got 2 black sons I don’t have that mentality. Never will.
— #BobbysDaughter
Clap clap clap
JPL
@Radiumgirl: If Biden selects Amy, I expect them to say that no one would have an affair with her, because she’s so mean.
Baud
The challenge for all of us will be to maintain the pushback while not becoming overly distracted by it, because it’s not what voters will care about.
PaulWartenberg
they were accusing WARREN of sexual shenanigans – with a young Marine no less – so this a standard go-to Swiftboat/Mudslinging tactic for the GOP anymore.
The Politics of Personal Destruction. The sliming has been out there for a long time (since Hamilton and Jefferson!) and all it does is destroy the nation.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
She allegedly told four people, her mother, her brother, the anonymous friend and the neighbor, Lynda LaCasse (sp?). I keep coming back to “three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead”, even without getting into the fact that both her brother and LaCasse had to be reminded that TR told them she was sexually assaulted. In the fifteen years between the revelation and ’08, in the more more than decade that Joe Biden has been one of the half a dozen most frequently mentioned names in the news, not one of these people had one too many and told somebody else, “I’ll tell you something about Biden…”.
@JPL: it’s one of the smaller things, but one of the things I can’t get past is that in one version of her story, Biden’s reaction to being pushed away was “C’mon, man!” C’mon, man, indeed.
rikyrah
@eric:
see….see……uh huh
UH HUH
Tell that truth.
Zzyzx
What stuns me is how poorly they’re doing it this time. A story like this is news for 1-2 weeks unless it has more layers that appear. So let’s drop it in the middle of a massive health and economic crisis when no one has the energy for it? It’s like they’ve decided that they don’t need to put on their A game.
TaMara (HFG)
I can’t even with any of this. I think Adam has put up enough links for us to follow to understand the game here.
That being said, if a credible woman or women came forward with similar accusations, I’ll be the first one in line asking Biden to step down.
This story would burn out the first time someone asked Reade to go under oath with any of this.
oldster
Good thread by Lindsay Beyerstein:
https://twitter.com/beyerstein/status/1255628410254241793
“To me, “Believe Women” has always meant treating rape allegations as ordinary claims, rather than extraordinary ones. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Ordinary claims do not. Though they still require evidence, if challenged.”
schrodingers_cat
Also let’s not forget that these accusations were first touted and circulated in BS friendly circles
Repeating this from the morning thread:
BS Presidential campaign 2.0 was a ratfucking Russian operation to try out smears to be later used in the fall campaign. It performed the same function in 2016.
Let’s see where he buys his 4th home.
ETA: Are we still clinging to the fairy tale that the Vt Jesus ran only to nudge the Ds to the left?
TaMara (HFG)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Exactly. Let me tell a little story. I worked in LA/Hollywood while Schwarzenegger was running for Governor. You know how many, “guess what I heard” and “this happened on the set” stories I heard? People don’t a) forget or b) not share when someone with name recognition is involved.
Josie
@Zzyzx:
This is why I think it is being put out there or at least being amplified by Bernie’s people. They think they can push Biden aside and Bernie will get the nomination instead. That’s how delusional they are.
VOR
@Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman): Beat me to it.
Yes, they already trotted out a claimed affair by Warren with a much younger man. It was a pretty pathetic attempt, but did illustrate the bottomless pit they would descend into.
TaMara (HFG)
@Josie: I want what drugs they are on, because I could use a little delusion these days.
germy
@schrodingers_cat: Sanders was involved in a plot to reelect Trump, and is being paid by the Russians, and he’ll use that money to purchase another house?
Wag
@Zzyzx:
I think that this IS their A game. And unfortunately, the media being what it is, they might keep this story alive, on life support, just like they did with Benghazi, for as long as it takes to get the results the GOP needS.
Major Major Major Major
Thanks, JC. I basically have the exact same opinion as you here—you took the words right out of my mouth. I’ve been waiting for somebody to write this so I didn’t have to. Just dead-on.
germy
@VOR:
Everyone laughed when that happened, including the young man making the accusation.
eric
The other point I will make: people think they know Joe. When people first saw an angry Cavanaugh and a composed Ford (under oath), they made a judgment based on the totality of information available. Had Cavanaugh behaved differently, and/or Ford not been under oath, then perceptions might have been different.
Biden has long been a touchy guy, everyone knows that. He has never appeared violent. There are far more data points for Biden than there were for Cavanaugh.
That does not mean that he did not do it; it just makes a difference as to how people come at the allegations.
schrodingers_cat
@germy:
1. He is a grifter.
2. He has been helped by the GRU both in 2016 (it is in the fucking Mueller Report) and this year also.
3. Many of the attacks used in the fall against HRC in 2016 originated in the BS campaign. It was the beta test.
4. Whether he is a useful idiot or an active collaborator I don’t know. He too loves Russia and has loved it for a long time. Who goes to the Soviet Union for their god damned honeymoon?
PenAndKey
@VOR: It also hilariously blew up in their faces when they failed to realize that claiming she had an affair with a young and arguably hot marine ran completely counter to their concurrent claim that she was “low energy”. Too bad for them the guy was an idiot who had already posted photographs of his “bedroom injury” evidence on Instagram bragging about how he got it like he was auditioning for Jackass.
Litlebritdifrnt
As Rihkya (sp) said this morning in Adam’s post there is no way that Biden would have been put on the ticket in 2008 if this was out there and credible. Obama’s campaign was perhaps the smartest in the history of the US, they managed to get a skinny black dude from Illinois elected POTUS for gawds sake. There is no way they missed this and there is no way that the repubs didn’t look into this and found it lacking in 2008 and 2012. No way. Did. Not. Happen.
Brachiator
I agree with this big time.
But the accusation is out there. It should be investigated. And even though it may be totally false, it will continue to hang over the campaign. The idea is to try to chip away at the reputation for kindness and integrity that Biden has built up over the years.
And so, there will be more garbage. Ironically, I have heard Trump supporters say crap like “he’s a hard charging businessman, so of course he would have mistresses, have sex with porn stars, and even mistreat women. But look what he has done for the economy.”
Tractarian
“Believe all women” was always a foolish sentiment, and I have no problem admitting that liberals and Dem politicians have done a bad job making that fact clear. Women must be heard and respected, and accusations must be taken seriously, but each case must be judged on its own merits.
In the Reade case, my instinct is to believe her, despite all the inconsistencies and discrepancies in her story. We know Biden has a reputation for being handsy, and we know that he belongs to a generation that seemed to accept routine sexual assault as a matter of course.
But, unlike with Kavanaugh, there were no eyewitnesses and there is no sworn testimony; and unlike with Trump, Biden has not proudly admitted on tape to habitually sexual assaulting women.
As with any he-said-she-said, it is impossible for anyone other than the two people involved to know the truth. It is a depressing situation, to be sure. If this really happened, there is no escaping the conclusion that Biden does not deserve to be elected president. Which would mean that there are no deserving candidates. And yet, (barring some really crazy sh!t) one of these men will take the oath of office next January.
Joe Biden may or may not be an honorable man. He may or may not deserve to be President. But I’m damn sure the people of this country deserve to have a president who governs with competence and compassion. We need to elect the only viable candidate who can do that.
And then, if Biden is elected and more evidence comes out after the election, cut him loose.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
checked the feeds of a couple of the bien-pensant lefties who piously and more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger (and sometimes in spittle-flecked rage) told me I have to take this seriously (looking at you, among others, Chris Hayes). None of them have anything to say about Biden’s response. I guess we don’t have to give any weight to what he says?
JMG
The reporters clamoring for Biden’s papers are just lazy jerks wanting months worth of easy stories handed to them on a platter. Putin did it for them in 2016, so now it’s their due. Watch today’s Trump shitshow to see if any reporter asks him about documents or sexual assault charges. I don’t think there will be any.
Cheryl Rofer
Thanks, John. I totally agree.
A succinct summary of why Tara Reade can’t be believed.
And why Republicans must be pushed out of American politics.
JCJ
@germy:
My favorite part of that episode was the statement from Senator Warren regarding this where she mentioned her education at the University of Houston and concluded with “Go Cougars!”
PenAndKey
That would imply they haven’t already rendered a verdict.
Jinchi
Republicans have been doing this for a long time and it’s not just directed at male candidates. The Pizzagate and Vince Foster conspiracy theories were both directed at Hillary Clinton.
And conservative women activists have no problem lying about sexual assault.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jinchi:
this wasn’t Republicans, this was (appears to be) a Bernie Cultist joining forces with the Dirtbag Left
germy
@schrodingers_cat:
The “Soviet Union Honeymoon” are Sean Hannity, Scott Walker and Rudy Giuliani talking points.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bernie-sanders-honeymoon-russia/
Kent
In other words, an undemocratic coup attempt by the fringe left who lost at the ballot box. Fuck them all if that is the case.
schrodingers_cat
@germy:
I stand corrected about the honeymoon but I see that you haven’t refuted any of the other points I made.
The Tara Reade story was hyped for weeks by Sanders campaign staff before it was picked up the MSM.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Warren was accused of raping a guy.
hitchhiker
The only response that works is the one that rejects the premise and calls out trump without naming him.
I have nothing but contempt for men who treat women this way. Ms Reade’s accusation fits with nothing known, suggested, or even hinted at in Joe Biden’s long career, which makes it very difficult to understand. There are men in public life who are this crude, sexist, and self-entitled, but Joe Biden is not one of them.
Are you saying she’s lying?
I’m saying that I have nothing but contempt for men who treat women this way, and that Joe Biden does not fit this pattern. Many others do.
——
The neighbor who says she heard the assault story from Reade in 95 or 96 is almost certainly telling the truth; Reade probably did tell her this. That doesn’t make it true. My best guess, given all the evidence so far in public, is that Reade felt queasy about the shoulder-rubbing stuff back in 93, but didn’t tell her bosses or file a complaint … she just thought about it.
And over time, that went from what if he did this to he could have done this to he did do this.
She worked for a senator, which in some circles is a big deal. What’s the story she could tell about her time there that would be the most attention-getting? Not, he touched my shoulders and it was weird, which seems to be what she said to her brother. What did she tell her mom? Who knows.
As a mom of two adult daughters, I can assure you that my very last thought if one of them told me she’d been assaulted at work would be, “Hey, let’s phone in to Larry King Live!”
PJ
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: What gets me are the reporters and pundits who refuse to mention not only all of Reade’s credibility issues (particularly her writing a year ago that her grievance against Biden was “nothing sexual”), but the fact that Reade went to Time’s Up not for legal counsel, but trying to get them to pay for PR for her, that Reade deliberately set this up for March of this year (her “tic toc” tweet to Ryan Grim), that both she and her brother were coached by “journalist” Nathan J. Robinson regarding what to say to the press in April, and that not only has Reade herself said that the complaint which Read allegedly made while she worked for Biden did not mention sexual assault, but that one of the “journalists” pushing the story, Katie Halper, acknowledged that there will be no evidence of any complaint in Biden’s papers and that is irrelevant, because then it must be evidence that there was a complaint which Biden had destroyed. In other words, this is just about smearing Biden and setting out on a six month fishing expedition.
MoCA Ace
Funny, I’m not hearing this anymore.
Yes, let us look!
Brachiator
@schrodingers_cat:
This honeymoon thing is totally false.
Never liked Sanders, but this thing is as phony as the Clinton emails thing.
schrodingers_cat
BTW how many BJers went to the Soviet Union as newly weds I would like to know. Is it something that was a done thing? I mean Moscow in 1988 is hardly Paris.
Carol
Well said, Cole. Was trying to organize my thoughts to make the same argument, but you did it for me and were much better at it than I would have been.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@hitchhiker:
and tell ol’ Lar that your daughter has a lot of respect for the man who violently assaulted her. As to the neighbor, I’m willing to believe she told him the neck-stroking, ‘nice legs’ story, which version of the story I find believable.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
That’s really John’s point, who ever the Democratic nominee is, they will be accused of every sin under the sun and the press will demand the candidate prove they are innocent. Remember the Right pulled this theory out of their ass that Obama was sekretly’ was born in Kenya and then his parents faked a birth announcement in Honolulu on the off chance a child named “Barrack Obama” was going to run for president.
Gretchen
Reade’s father wrote book in the 1990s which included a fictional sexual encounter identical to the experience Reade claimed with Biden. And did any man of Biden’s age call a woman “man” in 1993? No.
germy
@schrodingers_cat: Sanders’ Sister City outreach wasn’t unusual – it was a Ronald Reagan initiative.
(WaPo headline)
Betty Cracker
I explained why I’m skeptical of Reade’s claim in response to a question about it in comments a month ago. Nothing I’ve seen since changes my mind, except now it seems like maybe Reade has been telling the sexual assault story for longer than was known then.
I disagree with Cole on two points:
1) The neighbor’s claim that she believes Reade’s story and will still vote for Biden isn’t logically inconsistent to me; Trump is so awful that I’d do the same given that binary choice. Probably any woman over 40 has had to vote for at least one shithead man known to treat women like shit because the alternative was far worse. I’m not saying that describes Biden, but we all have to compromise, all the fucking time.
2) While I’m sure the Obama VP vetting process was thorough, I doubt very much an obscure person who briefly worked for Biden 20 years prior would be interviewed, let alone her acquaintances, etc., questioned. Even if Reade is telling the truth (she’s not), for whatever reason, she wasn’t talking then, so the story wasn’t “out there” to be investigated.
Those minor points aside, I agree 100%. But here’s the thing that really fucking sucks: no matter what, every woman who supports Biden is going to be hounded about this until the end of time. Men too, but women more so. That includes whichever woman Biden chooses as VP. It’s unfair, but there it is.
msb
@Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)
And don’t forget amateur clown Jacob Wohl trying to pin sex charges on both Mueller and Pelosi.
JC: said it perfectly. Maybe “Listen to Women” would have been a better slogan; I tend to say “believe women and investigate”.
Who else remembers that strange woman who cut the letter B into her own face and tried to say that pro-Obama black thugs did it to her? Unfortunately, she had done it while looking in a mirror, so the B was backwards – she also lied about money IIRC.
germy
White House Statement on the 30th Anniversary of Sister Cities International
March 19, 1986
The President met today with the leadership of Sister Cities International to mark their 30th anniversary and receive their award for his contribution to international understanding. The President is the Honorary Chairman of Sister Cities International.
Over the years many ideas have been tried in the field of private international exchanges. For 30 years the Sister Cities programs have been among the most successful and effective. Sister Cities programs began after 1945 but became a full-scale national effort in 1956 when President Eisenhower initiated the People-to-People Program at the White House. Since then, Sister City relationships have been established between more than 745 U.S. cities, representing more than 90 million Americans and over 1,100 communities in 86 nations.
Sister Cities programs have worked to eliminate barriers of culture and language and have enhanced the opportunities for mutual understanding. Because of Sister Cities programs, thousands of young people have the opportunity each year to expand their horizons, American know-how is made available to help people in dozens of developing countries, and thousands of people around the world can see the American volunteer spirit at work.
Sister Cities International is also an important part of our effort to expand and broaden contacts and communications between the people of the United States and the Soviet Union. The President and General Secretary Gorbachev agreed in Geneva on the utility of broadening exchanges and contacts and finding new ways to increase cooperation. People-to-people programs can help build better understanding and genuine constituencies for peace.
The Sister Cities programs are an outstanding example of citizen and private sector participation at their best in the field of international exchange, understanding, and cooperation. We wish them well on their anniversary.
(Ronald Reagan presidential library)
Tom Q
Like John, I’m an aging white guy (i.e., the person whose opinion matters least on this issue), but, for me, the most striking part of this is the fact that the most singularly damning detail in her story — the placement of fingers — didn’t appear until the last year or so. Isn’t that kind of burying the lead for 25 years? It reeks of “I’ve tried this story, it’s not getting any traction, so let me add something that’ll really get tabloid headlines”
The added fact that it’s nearly a verbatim pick-up rom a novel Reade’s father wrote jut adds another layer of “Not buying this”.
schrodingers_cat
@germy: I know about sister cities. I may be an immigrant but that does not mean I am an idiot. I have even worked on a sister city project.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@germy: Have the Conservatives finally gone there and declared Reagan a bleeding hart, libertard RINO yet? It’s pretty much inevitable. The Watchmen pretty much foresaw that.
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: regarding 2: Biden is a professional and I have the impression he would’ve mentioned it during the “tell us everything horrible about your past” phase. But that might be misguided, just a hunch.
germy
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Yes, I agree. It’s just dispiriting to see RW talking points repeated as “facts” in these comments.
trnc
And that’s one of the differences between this and the Kavanaugh case (for those people screaming that Blasey Ford didn’t say anything for years). Biden has been in the news either running for pres or being a heartbeat away for 20 years. Kavanaugh was pretty much unknown to the public until he became a SCOTUS nominee. If both women wanted to just put their incident behind them, it’s easy to see how CBF could do that and impossible to see how Reade could.
PJ
@hitchhiker: The neighbor who allegedly heard the story in 1995 says in the Business Insider interview that she didn’t remember any of it until Reade called to remind her of it last month. She says that she repressed the memory of the story, which is the first time I’ve heard of someone repressing a memory of something that happened to someone else. I don’t know about you, but I would remember a story about my friend being sexually assaulted by a Senator who later became Vice President.
The more likely story is that Reade told her something about a grievance with Biden’s staff that the friend forgot about because it was nothing, and then when Reade called last month, she said, “Hey, do you remember when I told you what happened to me when I worked for Biden?” The friend responded, “Uh, not really”. And then Reade said, “And how Biden pushed me up against a wall and stuck his finger inside me?” And the neighbor said, “Oh my God, that’s horrible, now that you mention it you did tell me something, and I must have suppressed it (because I didn’t remember it at all)”.
The fact that the neighbor and the brother have to be coached as to what to say is an indicator that they didn’t know anything about the rape story until this year.
kmeyerthelurker
LGM has a couple posts about how the press weaponizes transparency and ignores opacity in candidates. They want those Senate records opened so they can pore through them fishing, ala Hilary’s EMAILS!
Belafon
@eric: And she never filed a complaint, so there’s no paper to examine.
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: How would that work? Biden says he’d never heard the charge until she raised it this year, so what would there be to tell? And if he actually did it, he’d hardly tell on himself. I must be misunderstanding your point…
Kent
The question I think needs to be asked is this: WHAT DOES TARA READE WANT?
Does she want Biden arrested and prosecuted? If so, she’s about 35 years too late.
Does she want to overturn the results of the primary? If so, to what end? Most likely the re-election of Trump. Is she claiming that Biden is unfit to serve and needs to step down?
Does she just want to be heard? If so, by who?
Does she want to cash in?
I don’t know the answer. But she strikes me as unusually flaky. And she has a history of lying. About this and in her previous jobs.
Elizabelle
I am just adoring that Biden went on an NBC outlet to refute the sexual misconduct charges against him.
NBC, home to Matt Lauer with his “lock the door remotely for private moments” switch. Everyone was shocked, shocked, shocked. Ancestral home to Chris Matthews — remember him? And rikyrah reminded us on the morning thread that even
Greatest Generation NBC glory days scoldy guybeloved codger Tom Brokaw had sexual allegations thrown at him. (In that last case, NBC women lined up to vouch for him — Maddow, Mrs. Greenspan, etc.)NBC, home of The Apprentice. Which reputation laundered and brought us …
This is all so third rate.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@PJ: I just heard Yamiche Alcindor– of whom I am a big fan– say on NPR (from memory) that we don’t have any idea of any political motivation on Reade’s part. How can she be unaware of Reade’s history with the Sanders campaign and the Sanders media? Does Ryan Grim throw really great barbecues? Was he at Yamiche’s wedding? WTF? Does she just feel kind of sorry for Nathan Robinson (so do I, to be frank, and I’d never heard of him till a week ago, but he’s like the Susan Carpenter McMillan of this whole thing)
and speaking of himself, did a twitter search to make sure I had that name right:
this delusion, that Biden and the “DNC” are all that stand between the nation and BernieCare, and they (we) are doing it out of gratuitous malevolence, just fucking fascinates me.
PJ
@Betty Cracker: Everyone who is now saying that Reade told them years ago about the sexual assault was coached to say that by Reade or Nathan Robinson.
germy
@kmeyerthelurker:
Did you see this?
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: What I mean is that it would’ve come up if it were true because he would’ve volunteered it, along with any lesser harassment etc. allegations. He is a professional and that is a standard part of the vetting process. They proceeded with the nom, so it presumably didn’t come up.
ETA: Basically I’m saying I’ve a gut feel that he would’ve volunteered it during vetting, especially if there was a paper trail.
@Elizabelle: You would prefer Fox News?
feebog
Obama’s VP vetting team flat missed the Tara Reade allegations. Because there was nothing there. No written complaint to the Senate as she alleged. No police report. No record of a complaint to anyone on Biden’s staff. Pretty hard to vet something that does not exist.
PJ
@Tom Q: The bigger tell is that Reade says now that she wasn’t wearing pantyhose when this happened, but every major DC office required them in the early ’90’s, and if she wasn’t wearing them, she would have been sent home from work.
Brachiator
@MoCA Ace:
RE:But look what he has done for the economy
Yep, this is what has Trump acting even more infantile than usual. He is in a jam, and cannot easily get out of it.
His “blame China” thing is an act of desperation. This is going to blow up in his face.
Elizabelle
Another thing: Joe Biden has been a devoted and appreciative husband to a wonderful woman. For decades. He had one previous wife. Killed young in an accident.
The contrast between him and Trump could not be sharper.
Dr. Jill can be a real asset to Biden this campaign. No making her into a scorned woman who stands by her man. For political and monetary reasons.
MattF
For the political press, the question of what Biden or Reade actually did is much less important than the question of who writes the narrative. A story a day about Biden (Biden Denies Allegation!) is what they want, and, unfortunately, is what they’re getting. I don’t really know how Biden can change that, but my modest proposal is to attack Trump.
spc123
@Zzyzx: That assumes there is direct outside influences plotting this (rather than just climbing aboard). If one is a bit grandiose and wants to spark a Bernie nom revival, earlier could be seen as better despite all the other noise. Who knows?
germy
bluehill
Repubs are good at microtargeting demo groups. Thanks, Facebook. At first I thought this story was targeting a group called “double-haters” by some pollsters that dislike both candidates. This group swung heavily to Trump in 2016, but right now strong favors Biden.
I thought this allegation is trying to make Biden seem just as bad as Trump and hoping that these voters swing back towards Trump a little. Now, I think it may be aimed more at Bernie supporters trying to discourage them from voting for Biden and voting for Amash instead or Tulsi Gabbard when she enters the race (you know that’s coming).
Elizabelle
@Major Major Major Major: Just pointing out that NBC has a very strange culture that allowed sexual abuse by prominent males for years upon years.
As does Fox News. Memorably. But no taking the scolding tone, NBC.
Citizen Alan
@schrodingers_cat: While the “Honeymoon in Moscow” thing is overblown in and of itself, there is no question in my mind that there is video footage of Sanders in Russia praising the Soviet Union and denigrating the U.S. that would have gotten saturation coverage if he’d gotten the nomination. Does no one else remember that it was a big deal for Bill Clinton to have simply gone on a field trip to Moscow while in college?!?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kent:
yes, she wants to be Our Revolution’s Joan of Arc.
I don’t think she’s in it for the money, but I do think she wants to be a star.
go back and read her published piece of barely a year ago–
Alexandra Tara Reade: A girl walks into the Senate April, 17 2019
–this is not someone who was “afraid of speaking out against one of the most powerful man in the world”. This a person who really, really wanted to be seen speaking out et cetera et cetera
trnc
@Betty Cracker: I agree with you on the neighbor voting for Biden thing cuz otherwise 4 more years of Mango Menace, but I think the Obama vetting thing is legit because it’s not just woman in a short term job – it’s the lack of a senate complaint that would have come up if it existed. It’s the lack of stories from the other women in the office that Reade allegedly told – if she had, it’s hard to believe those women wouldn’t have at least said, “One of our coworkers said JB assaulted her,” even if they went on to say they didn’t believe it. And, of course, no other stories of even rumoured sexual assault.
Major Major Major Major
@Elizabelle: Gotcha!
Jinchi
A rumor that started in October 2016, spun out of on emails hacked by Russia, pushed by white supremacists on twitter, reddit and 4chan, echoed by InfoWars, Qanon, r/The_Donald, and retweeted by Mike Flynn and Don Trump Jr…
I stand by my claim that this was being pushed by Rightwingers and Republicans in support of Donald Trump.
cthulhu
I find it interesting that the account of Biden’s supposed behavior went from being overly touchy to the point of making Reade uncomfortable (pretty believable overall but I am not confident, given her changing stories that it led to her leaving DC) to an action exactly identical to what Trump has been accused of/admitted.
It is almost as if certain people want Biden to be seen as no better than Trump. In my experience, the people pushing this idea haven’t been Trump supporters, if you get my drift.
PJ
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Robinson and Grim and Halper all hate Democrats, and consider them far worse than Republicans (who are going to outflank the Dems on the left any day now.)
If you review Reade’s Twitter and Medium posts from prior to this year, it seems like she is someone who craves attention, which she is getting in spades, and which must have disappointed her not to be getting when she originally approached journalists like Ronan Farrow. Now, she retweets every mention of herself in the press or in a tweet.
But someone on the internets has pointed out a weird thing where there are many of her tweets which sound like they are coming from someone who is not familiar with English, and particularly regarding the use of articles (i.e., someone Russian.) If I were conspiracy minded, I would speculate about the possibility that Russia is paying off her debts in exchange for these accusations.
MJS
@Betty Cracker: This will be the least effective “hounding” in the history of hounding. If it comes from Trump supporters, the appropriate response is derisive laughter, and a recitation of the names of the 25 plus women who have made sexual assault allegations against Trump. If it comes from the media, in the form of “but his (Biden’s) Senate records”, the response should be, in addition to the recitation of the names, a question about Trump’s tax returns, financial records, response to the numerous assault allegations, etc.
schrodingers_cat
@Citizen Alan: I have heard his answers about Cuba in the last debate with Biden. He did not walk back from his praise for Communist dictatorships. Surely you can’t blame Hannity for that?
trollhattan
@Elizabelle:
But, what about that time when he mixed up Jill and his sister, that was awkward. :-P
artem1s
The issue here isn’t whether to believe or not to believe any particular accuser. IT’S NOT THE PUBLIC’S JOB! The public isn’t the jury or judge. The point of believe women and MeToo was to get the LEGAL system to stop gaming the laws to favor rapists and stop making the victim defend their very existence in order to get their day in court. It’s not up to me or you to believe or not believe Reade on rape. It up to us to decide whether we want to vote for Joe Biden in November. It strikes me as rather ironic that the whole ‘broken glass’ concept was driven by the candidate that was no one’s second choice and, as it turns out, hardly anyone’s first choice. Now that his campaign is worm dirt, the idea of crawling over broken glass to elect the democratic nominee is suddenly a foreign concept to the very misogynists who spent the entire primary swiftboating Warren and Harris.
I was never all in on broken glass anymore than I’m ever going to be all in on forcing someone to resign based on innuendo and unfounded rumors. Reade can have her day in court, or could have if she had actually named someone in the police report. Until she actually names someone in a legal document, the courts can’t weigh in. Outside legal proceedings, it’s not the media’s job or my job to decide whether someone has a verifiable complaint. Biden could have said this straight up or had his lawyers do it for him. Where is the police report naming me as a suspect and I’ll turn myself in for questioning.
Betty Cracker
@PJ: I wondered about that too but didn’t know if the Capitol dress codes were similar to corporate dumbfuckery back then. I worked for a big consulting company in the early 90s and was required to wear fucking pantyhose IN FLORIDA, which is hotter than the surface of the sun in the summer (as is DC). Not wearing pantyhose was not an option if you were wearing a skirt or dress. I’ll never forget it because I hated that rule so much.
clay
So I’ve been thinking about Al Franken.
Lemme explain. When Reardon’s story broke, a lot of us were instantly suspicious. She was a Fox News frequent guest, and her accusation was previewed by Roger Stone. Plus, there were many aspects of her story that smelled funny. But then a series of new accusers, with accusations of varying degree of seriousness, came forward, and eventually Al resigned, and you know the drill.
Much later, Jane Mayer writes a story that — in my opinion — pretty well demolishes Reardon’s story. It did NOT as well demolish the subsequent accusers’ stories, so I’m not claiming that Al should’ve stayed on or whatever. In fact, I’m not here to re-litigate the Franken thing at all.
But it got me to wondering… Assuming that her accusations were crap, what was Reardon trying to accomplish? Obviously, she wanted to damage Franken, but resign? I think that if it had just been Reardon, then Franken would’ve been able to weather that storm. There were too many holes in the tale; it would’ve been picked apart and dismissed eventually. But with the subsequent accusations, the focus wasn’t just on Reardon, so her individual story got less attention.
So the questions is, when Reardon made her accusation, did she know that there would be other women to come forward? Was she just trying to get the ball rolling? Or was it a fishing expedition — cast a net and see if we catch anything? Make a somewhat plausible story with some sort of evidence (the picture), and see what happens.
Which brings us to today. If Reade is making the whole thing up, which is my position, then what’s her game? I think it’s something like this: “Biden is known to be handsy. A more serious accusation is also plausible. If I make this public accusation, then maybe some other women will come forward who DO have legitimate complaints. Then it won’t be my word vs his, it’ll be OUR word.”
So what do you think? Fishing expedition?
JoyceH
Don’t believe her, never will.
I’m so old I was fending off bosses before the term “sexual harassment” was even invented. And when sharing the latest incident with a friend, I never, not once, omitted the most disgusting detail of the encounter.
And has been mentioned upthread, no pantihose? In a government office in the ‘90s? Come ON!
Jinchi
Right, like all the stories about the Clinton Foundation in 2016. (What ever happened to those, anyway?)
trollhattan
@Kent:
The stories about her from coworkers at that horse rescue organization describe somebody who we’ve all worked with (or worse, are related to)–one who mixes truth, lies and fantasy in a blender and who’s relentlessly self-dealing. I’d need to hear from others before I’d give this any credibility. Everyone deserves being listened to, but everyone need not be believed.
Betty Cracker
@trnc: Good points, thanks. FWIW, I believe the women who said Biden touched them in ways that made them feel uncomfortable; I’ve seen it with my own eyes on camera. But that’s not the same thing as sexual assault, and even 10 years ago, it’s not the kind of thing people would have brought up in a vetting interview. Straightforward sexual harassment and sexual assault are.
PJ
@Betty Cracker: I worked for a large firm in DC in the mid-90’s (after 1993), and it was a big deal when “casual Friday” was started, probably in 1995 – men did not have to wear ties or suits (though button down shirts were required), and it may be that women did not have to wear hose – but the dress code was in full effect every other day, and you would be sent home (or told to go to a store to buy the missing item(s)) if you were not in compliance.
The Moar You Know
Nor Team Clinton. And no fucking way Team Romney or McCain would have missed this in oppo.
trnc
There’s no way Gabbard could qualify for the ballot in most states (if any) because she wouldn’t be able to get the signatures. Maybe Amash can in states with no deadline because he’s new and shiny, but I suspect he wouldn’t have much luck, either.
ETA: I thought the filing deadlines were earlier, but that’s mostly for major party candidates, not independent.
Chyron HR
@germy:
Oh no, of course not. Saint Bernie would never try to get Trump elected out of spite two elections in a row.
trollhattan
I eagerly await the various “men’s rights” organizations to issue their strong supporting documents defending Biden from these scurrilous attacks.
Mandalay
@Tractarian:
Absolutely true, except that “Believe all women” was never originally a slogan of the #metoo movement. Instead, it was fabricated as an unsourced strawman by Bari Weiss in this hit piece NYT column of 11/28/17, and folks who wanted to denigrate #metoo gleefully latched on to it.:
As many folks pointed out in the comments to her column, “believe all women” was not even a thing until Weiss made it the focus of her article. That’s pretty easy to verify by googling the use of the exact phrase before and after 11/28/17.
So sneer at “believe all women” if you want to, and that’s fine since the notion is obviously absurd. But just be aware that when you do that you are being a useful idiot parroting a strawman, and helping to distort the goals of #metoo.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: I don’t know for sure, but I’d be surprised if Capitol dress codes were more relaxed than business codes.
PJ
@Baud: No fucking way. Congress is one of the most conservative institutions in DC.
Betty Cracker
@MJS: It will be a gigantic fucking distraction, regardless of whether the hounders have standing, which they don’t. The MSM hot take right now is all about what hypocrites Democrats are for believing Christine Blasey Ford while being skeptical of Reade. Strong feminists like Gillibrand, Warren, Harris, etc., are being questioned along these lines and will continue to be. It’s bullshit, but it’s harmful bullshit.
kindness
One of the things I really appreciate about our John here is he is straight up. No bullshitting around.
You the man John! Thanks.
JoyceH
Remember when Trump invited those Clinton accusers to one of the debates? Suggest Biden do the same thing – can they reserve three rows of seats, do you think?
germy
@JoyceH: We’d need a larger venue. Perhaps a stadium.
JPL
@Betty Cracker: It’s time that he return to his basement and focus on policy. MSM will tire of interviewing her.
Nora Lenderbee
Exhibit 1: Bill Clinton. If I had to do it all over again, I would still vote for him.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@trnc:
It’s a bad time to be trying to collect signatures too.
Elizabelle
The new White House press secretary will “brief reporters” at 2 today. Learned this via C-Span.
Jinchi
If I recall correctly, the original was “I believe the woman” in response to what had always been the media’s default assumption “I believe (Kavanaugh, Weinstein, Cosby … etc etc etc.)”
Kent
When I worked on the hill it was some years ago. Actually it was 1994-1995 so exact same time period as Reade. But basically if Congress was in session then it was coat and ties and business dress for women. If Congress was out of session and only staff were working in the Congressional offices then it was more relaxed. You could wear kakhis and open collars with no ties. Jeans and t-shirts or even polo shirts were pretty much not allowed
This was mid-1990s and women most certainly had to wear hose if they had skirts on. Especially if there was a chance they would encounter Senators. Some wore pant suits but no one would ever go bare-legged. I remember the younger women complaining about having to wear stockings in the DC summer heat. I was unsympathetic because I was wearing wool suits and ties and leather shoes which I felt was worse.
I was a NOAA employee but detailed to the Senate Commerce Committee to work on fisheries issues so I was actually in Senator Glenn’s office.
MattF
@trnc: I expect Amash will try for the Libertarian party nom– they’re on the ballot in most, if not all, states. I don’t think Amash is any more or less attractive to voters than the usual run of Libertarian nominees– but in any event, they were always going to be on most of the presidential ballots.
Sean
@bluehill: Tulsi endorsed Joe Biden. Aside from what party she’d run under (if not green or lib, she’d have to get on the ballot in all 50 states, which in this situation would be almost impossible, if not completely so), having endorsed Biden fully would make her run seem pretty absurd. I don’t think she plans to enter the race. (PS I dislike her a great deal, but not sure she’s that insane).
Jinchi
It’s hard to believe there will be any debates this year. But as a rule, I think it’s always best to avoid doing the same thing as Donald Trump.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I’ve given up believing that most voters are like me, but I’d like to think there are many gettable voters who would be excited to see Democrats respond strongly and resolutely to bullshit questioning.
Betty Cracker
@Mandalay: So it was Bari Weiss who started that idiocy. That figures.
Elizabelle
@PJ: Yeah. I remember having at least half a dresser drawer full of stockings. With several unopened packages, at all times. Pre casual Fridays that morphed into casual most days in our law office sometime before 9/11/2001. Remember wondering what to do with all the excess hosiery. My career is not holding up liquor stores.
I did not even wear stockings to the last two funerals I attended.
It is nice to no longer be spending on stockings, which don’t last that long and required constant replacement.
All that said: Tara Reade is a liar. Although we knew that.
ShadeTail
I refuse to say anything about Reade herself. I don’t know enough about her. But when it comes to the people who are pushing this, I definitely don’t believe them. They’re all either GOP trolls, Russian bots, or Bernie dead-enders. To call them untrustworthy fascists who are acting in bad faith would be a massive understatement. Not even one of them gives a single shit about women in general, or rape culture specifically. They’re just using Reade and her story as political pawns.
Unless and until we get legitimate information from trustworthy people, I’m staying strictly neutral about Reade and her experiences, and I’m not going to let it impact my voting choice.
Elizabelle
@Kent:
Love it. Seeing a Gary Larson cartoon out of that one.
Kent
@Elizabelle: Ha! Thanks. I fixed that typo.
ruemara
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Honestly, that’s what they think. Believe Reade without question; condemn Biden without question. Which isn’t justice and not what the movement was about. These people poison everything for power.
@PJ: Younger women who don’t work at an old school law firm will not know this was mandatory at big firms back then.
Same for Congress.
cthulhu
@PJ: I don’t see any grand Russian conspiracy. Her behavior over the years strikes me a pretty opportunistic/scammy. The $1400 theft from the horse rescue, the hiding her car from repo, the GoFundMe thing – pretty low value grifts by someone who seemingly is often low on funds. Thus my guess about the pro-Putin stuff is that there’s probably various organizations out there who will pay non-Russian citizens for writing pro-Russian tweets or articles for relatively small amounts of compensation. Are these ultimately backed by the the Russian government? Almost certainly, but that doesn’t make the writers particularly complicit, just a bit desperate for cash for however they can get it. I would think a well-thought out plan by the Russians wouldn’t utilize someone with clearly so much distracting baggage obvious from any serious review of her background.
JoyceH
@Elizabelle: “Remember wondering what to do with all the excess hosiery. My career is not holding up liquor stores.”
When I was in Officer Candidate School, the guys were always clamoring for our run pantihose. Not for any kink, unless you think ultra-shiny shoes is a kink; they made great shoe shiners.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I’m having difficulty expressing the point I’m trying to make. I don’t necessarily mean it’s harmful from a vote-getting standpoint, though it could be. I’m pissed that women will bear the brunt of this bullshit. That’s always the way it works.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Gotcha. And agreed.
Mandalay
@Betty Cracker:
It was, but the tragedy is that was she was hugely successful with her lie, and as an earlier poster pointed out, those supporting #metoo are generally poor at pointing this out.
It’s worth noting that the same applies to the Bernie Sanders “honeymoon in Russia” bullshit which reared its ugly head in this thread for the umpteenth time. It’s a right wing talking point, but folks here gleefully parrot it, clueless to the fact that they are being used by the right to propagate a lie.
Elizabelle
I think the new liar press secretary is up. First topic is hospital funding.
Amir Khalid
@JoyceH:
I tried that with my (civilian) dress shoes. Didn’t work for me.
PJ
@cthulhu: I honestly don’t think Putin (or whoever is making these decisions at the IRA) gives a shit about whether Reade or anyone else’s allegations against a Democrat hold water or if they have “distracting baggage.” The point is not to get Biden to drop out, but to constantly dirty him up enough so that enough voters say, “ugh, I’m not voting for him, I’ll just stay home!”, just like they did with Hillary. Reade will probably be forgotten by the end of May, but there will be another allegation to take its place. (“He’s an out-of-touch ice cream eater!” “He’s refusing to shake hands and make public appearances despite Georgia opening up!”)
The real endgame for the media, the GOP, and the BernieBros would be to get his archive at the U of D opened to them, because then they could raise a new scandal every week until November. So far, Biden has been smart enough to deny them this, despite the fact that today major newspapers are calling for him to do just that.
Cacti
The brother’s changing story is a huge red flag. What brother would EVER in his natural life forget his sister telling him about being sexually assaulted?
Elizabelle
Does the deplorable Nathan Robinson face any legal jeopardy from coaching alleged witnesses to make false statements?
James E Powell
If I were working the press/media for Biden or the Democrats and a question regarding Tara Reade came up, I’d say, “You know who Tara Reade is and you know who Christine Blasey Ford is, can you name any of the women who have made claims against Donald Trump? Can you tell me how many there are? Can you describe their claims?”
Suzanne
@Mandalay: To me, “believe all women” has always meant that we assume that they are telling the truth from the beginning. ***And then*** we should investigate and make a judgment on the veracity of the claims at that point, with more information. It means beginning the process from a standpoint of acceptance of the claim…. but it certainly doesn’t mean ending the process at that same point.
trnc
@MattF:
OK, thanks.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@cthulhu:
I hadn’t thought of that, cause it seems like such a weird waste of money, but the world of reddit and facebook is alien to me. I wonder what it would pay? a couple of hundred bucks for a thousand words or something? that’d be worth it to some, and if you’re already reading people like Greenwald and Taibbi, you could persuade yourself you’re doing The People’s work
Dan
I see the Bernie Bros pushing this WAY harder than the GOP. Bros gotta bro.
Elizabelle
Don’t think of an elephant. Top of the WaPost website right now. They got what they wanted. Big headline. Biden and sexual assault. Separated by two words.
Biden denies he sexually assaulted former Senate aide
Joe Biden’s statement, released shortly before he appeared on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” is the first he has made about the allegation by Tara Reade, who worked in his Senate office for nine months ending in 1993. He also called on the National Archives to release any record of a complaint.
Lyrebird
@germy: Thanks germy!
and what Ms. Tchen said!
And John Cole, I know you 1. won’t read this and 2. don’t need an additional sister, since you have multiple awesome sisters already, but hey: LOVE YOU JOHN! Yes this is triggering stuff for some of us, including me. Really appreciate what you said.
trnc
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yup. Also, from her article:
But after Bob Packwood became a household name and basically a synonym for sexual assault. Maybe this is reaching, but it seems a little odd that a year after a senator became the poster boy for sexual assault and almost got expelled, another senator could sexually assault someone and have it be completely unknown by congressional members and staffers.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Elizabelle:
Elizabelle
The FTF NY Times is surprisingly restrained. The Tara Reade stuff is halfway down the page, no big headline. Have to look for it.
Their article on Covid toes is just above it.
louc
A friend who used to work for the Senate raised another discrepancy in her story. She described Biden as dragging her into a semi-private hidey hole in the hallway of a building on Capitol grounds (though she can’t remember which one, which is problematic in and of itself). My friend says there is no such thing in the Senate buildings. He would have basically had to assault her in a place where anyone could see them. There are such places in the Capitol itself, but tell me you wouldn’t remember *that* detail.
Plus at the time, Biden was commuting home nightly to Delaware via Amtrak.
Elizabelle
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
She is a motormouth. Rather diminishes her effectiveness. Kayleigh Isuzu.
clay
@Elizabelle: But I just thought of an elephohhhh, now I get it.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne: I never liked the slogan “believe all women.” It doesn’t make sense and it doesn’t do justice right. Fact is, not all women (nor all men) are truthful and some people (male and female) lie intentionally to hurt other people and/or elevate themselves. My mom was a pathological liar who was super-smart and presented well. She leveled accusations about my dad and other family members that I eventually learned were utter fabrications. So no, “believe all women” is a dangerous approach. More sensible and respectful would be to “listen to all women, take their claims seriously and investigate thoroughly, and take appropriate action from there.” Not as snappy a slogan, but the workings of justice shouldn’t have to fit on a bumper sticker.
chopper
you’d think if your neighbor tells you she was raped by a prominent politician, you’d remember that and wouldn’t have to have her call you to jog your memory. this is especially true of her brother, i mean, who forgets his sister’s rape? “well shit, it musta just slipped my mind.”.
cthulhu
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Economists often get paid rather large sums (in the $10Ks) by governments or government supported agencies to write position papers the about the potential for investment in various countries or regions that then get published in academic journals. And unlike medical research, they are aren’t required to disclose such support which frankly blows my mind. I am not even allowed to have lunch bought for me by any company that does business with the medical center where I work despite my having zero input or control over purchases.
cmorenc
While of course trying to damage Biden for the general electorate is one goal of the GOP/RW/ Bernie-Dead-Enders – it’s not the only nor even the most important goal they hope to pull off. They would no doubt like to force the Democrats into pressuring Biden to withdraw from the nomination, and be thus forced to turn to Bernie as the second-place winner in results so far. If they don’t succeed in forcing Biden out of the race, then they’re hoping to at least damage the enthusiasm of a few % of voters from turning out for him (which strategy worked for them well enough against Hillary to permit Trump to squeak out hair-breadth wins in three critical states.)
BobS
The more I think about this allegation (which I already think is bullshit), the weaker it looks.
It’s inconceivable to me that an adult (29 years old) staffer for a United States Senator didn’t take any contemporaneous notes (even in the form of a personal journal) that would give any clue as to dates and times (dates and times that would allow Biden to account for his whereabouts). It becomes increasingly suspicious when it’s reported she (allegedly) attended law school. The educational/working environment she inhabited in the 1990’s is one in which documentation is a huge part. It also makes me wonder whether the reason for searching the Biden archives is to help her cement a date.
With respect to the phone call to the Larry King show- I’d like a little more proof it was her mother. Certainly she has some audiotape/videotape of her mom to compare it to.
And it’s probably just a little too paranoid to point out that Larry King’s current show is on RT.
Dmbeaster
@Zzyzx:
“What stuns me is how poorly they’re doing it this time. ”
It came out of the Bernie Bros fever swamp – not the skilled slimer squad. Trumpies are probably pissed about the lack of tradecraft.
O. Felix Culpa
@BobS: And as others have pointed out, why would you call Larry King if your daughter had been sexually assaulted? Wouldn’t other, better remedies come to mind? And why would you not mention the perpetrator’s name if such a heinous action had taken place? It’s bullshyte from start to finish.
Quaker in a Basement
@Tom Q:
I had not heard this before. You got any more info about it?
bluehill
@Sean: Yeah, forgot about that. Then again, Bernie endorsed Biden too, but the rf’ing seems to be continuing.
As for getting on ballots, I hope it’s too late. It only matters in the swing states like MI. In MI, Amash isn’t trying to win the election only extract something from either party by the threat of turning MI towards Trump or Biden.
O. Felix Culpa
@Quaker in a Basement: Here, courtesy of Mr. Silverman: https://twitter.com/SallyAlbright/status/1255753538518515717
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Kamala’s Secret Panda @ oldmancoyote22 16m
Dana Bash, who was part of “new trump tone” chorus ten days ago or so. “Home Team interview” is interesting. I wonder if MSNBC’s demographics are more profitable/culturally desirable and the lady from the aiport/Jiffylube waiting room channel has a jealous.
Suzanne
@O. Felix Culpa: I like Lindsey Beyerstein’s formulation as treating sexual assault as an ordinary claim, not an extraordinary claim. That doesn’t mean that the claim isn’t then scrutinized, but it does promote changing the cultural climate around accusers.
And then we investigate and make the various sort of judgments that we do… but based on more evidence.
Tim Ellis
“And you know what? I don’t think Team Obama would have missed this in their vetting process.”
This is an extremely compelling point I hadn’t seen made anywhere else yet.
I’m so torn on this. I won’t elaborate here – I just need to process it for myself – but I appreciate you taking the time to talk it through here. I found this helpful.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: If Joe and Mika had integrity, they would be offended by Bash’s characterization of them.
Elizabelle
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Dana Bash is such a hack. Has been, for years. Was once married to John King, who is overtly wired for Republicans. She is covertly wired.
David Hunt
Thank you, Mr. Cole for posting summaries that I can look at after work. I don’t now crap about any of this yet. So I may be putting my foot in my mouth, but my current view is that, considering Trump is the GOP nominee, if the Devil himself were the Democratic nominee for President, I’d want to know what his campaign platform was before I made final voting decisions.
schrodingers_cat
Norm Ornstein
Beth
@Radiumgirl: They already did–wasn’t there some insinuated BDSM affair between Warren and some hot young dude? The accusation provided much merriment.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Elizabelle: I think that was Kate Snow. Or Snowe. Dana is the ex-wife of Jeremy Bash, Leon Panetta’s (iiuc) COS at DOD and the CIA, (more acronyms!) and MSNBC talking head, which is maybe another wrinkle in the whole “home team” thing
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Morning Hoes have no integrity.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne: That approach makes good sense to me.
Tractarian
@Mandalay: Thanks for the info. “Believe all women” was not originally a slogan of the #metoo movement, I agree.
But I have seen plenty of tweets and posts saying “believe women,” or something to that effect, without qualification. Did you Google that phrase?
Don’t get me wrong – I do NOT think the people saying “believe women” really meant “all accusations MUST be true because women making accusations of sexual assault are incapable of lying.”
What I am saying is it could reasonably be interpreted that way, and it should have been clarified, precisely because of what we’re seeing now.
joel hanes
@germy:
Sanders’s successive candidacies were seen as useful by Russia, and the Russians did some work to amplify and support his campaigns.
I do not think that Sanders nor anyone he employed deliberately colluded with the Russians, nor invited their help. I think that, like Gabbard, Sanders was used as an unwitting tool. Unlike Gabbard, there was considerable pre-existing substance to the Sanders campaigns, and a considerable base of voters who had good reasons to support him.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@schrodingers_cat: the Bernie cult is like GOP racism, it’s somehow impolite to mention it in The Village. Good for Norm Ornstein.
(Stephanie Ruhle used to be big on interjecting “Not all trump voters are racist! My mom voted for trump, and Louise Ruhle is no racist!” She’s just (at best) someone who thinks being a racist is not disqualifying for the presidency.)
Nicole
This thread (and some of the other ones) make me glad that I’m not the only one who immediately went to, “but… pantyhose!”
And boy, people were really judgy about it then. Back in 1992 I did costumes at a summer theater for a show that took place during WW2. Much to the actresses’ joy (the theater was not air conditioned and it was HOT that summer), I told them no nylons; draw a line up their leg with eyeliner. Better on the budget, more comfortable for them, and historically accurate.
And then the very small-town reviewer came to the show and complained that none of the women in the show were wearing nylons and I had to go buy nylons for them all.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Elizabelle: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: you’re right: King was Dana’s second husband. Could’ve sworn King was married to Kate Snow.
JustRuss
That reminds me, has the IRS finished auditing Trumps returns so we can take a look at them?
schrodingers_cat
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It is impolite to mention that here and on many left leaning/liberal blogs as well, not just the MSM.
schrodingers_cat
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: These TV pundits marry each other like people in a soap, are there no other human beings available?
negative 1
@Betty Cracker: I agree with you wholeheartedly, and it’s why IMHO it’s important (and thank you) that you gave a cogent answer as to why we should be skeptical. I don’t think the reasoning behind a false claim is all that complicated; it allows the GOP to call anyone a hypocrite if they bring up Trump’s many, many rapes. Is it false equivalency? Sure. But depressingly, is it enough to get the media to give ridiculous amounts of attention to ‘Joe Biden assaulter’? Yup, sadly. Having a simple way to push back on why anyone can be skeptical of this bumps out the effectiveness of that narrative quickly and effectively.
Politics is f&8king horrible sometimes– somehow we got here when we really should be discussing optimal policy but there you go.
TheTruffle
I hear so many people say, “Biden wasn’t my first choice blahh blah blah.”
Clearly he was someone’s first choice if Super Tuesday was anything to go by.
I’m a New York State resident who will never have the chance to vote for my preferred candidate (Warren). I’m bummed that she didn’t even win MA.
But Biden has plenty of supporters out there, if Super Tuesday is anything to go by. Maybe people shouldn’t confuse the Internet with real life?
What do you think? How do you explain Biden’s performance so far?
Annie
@JoyceH:
I’m 64 and I too remember fending off bosses’ disgusting conduct.
As far as I’m concerned, this country is drowning and T**** is holding our head under water. Under these circumstances I Do Not Care what happened 27 years ago if Joe can get T**** out of office.
schrodingers_cat
@Annie: That is an eloquent description of what is happening.
cthulhu
Other people have pointed out that the content of the call could be interpreted as having only to do with some work-related problem her daughter had experienced. Reade’s earliest statements suggest she had no issue with Biden himself but rather with some others who worked for him. And there wasn’t any implication that the issues had anything to do with harassment. The harassment story first surfaced only last year, not in her writings pre-2019 about her time in DC as far as I have seen.
Chyron HR
@TheTruffle:
Bernie says DA STABBISHMENT rigged it, and also that black people are
too stupid to vote right“””low information voters”””.Fancycwabs
I do believe the marine who said Warren shagged him so hard he was traumatized forever, though.
Immanentize
@Kent: We had a good discussion about the hose issue in this morning’s thread. Anyone who was a professional — especially lawyers — know that “no hose” or “collarless shirt” was a reason for getting sent home at best in court, in firms, and of course in any place of business where you might meet someone who “mattered.”
But let me just say about one thing you said, women had it much tougher. I could wear the same suit and tie every day of a three week trial and no one noticed. But if a woman dressed in the same outfit two days in the same week, jurors held that against them. And, have you ever worn hose? Ever wrap your lowers extremities in confining and tight saran wrap? If you have, better not to share.
MattF
Jen Rubin on how the press deals with the accusations against Biden.
trollhattan
@TheTruffle:
I don’t think it’s anything more complicated than folks gravitating to the familiar and comforting in an autonomic response to Trump’s psychopathy and blatant, wanton destruction of the government he was hired to run, and chunks of the nation itself.
Whatever Trump is, Biden is the opposite. It’s not helpful they’re both old but that’s where the familiar stems from. Nobody else had his level of recognition, not even the bidnezmen.
ETA for Republicans, Bob Dole was the last hurrah of the WWII generation. Biden is technically pre-boomer but may be the final nominee of his or the boomer generation. I suspect everybody expected someone far younger would win the nom, but they kind of erased one another.
Tehanu
John, you may not be as much of an expert as some of the other front-pagers here (who I do admire), but you are the main reason why I read this blog every day. You have such a gift for cutting through the BS and talking straight. Thanks for this.
Immanentize
@Cacti:
One with a serious heroin addiction? One who needed some cash pronto? One who had a traumatic brain injury days after being told? It’s possible….
Bex
@Betty Cracker: From what I understand, people who do that kind of vetting look for just this kind of thing. In this case, checking out employees who didn’t work for the candidate very long and claimed to have been fired or mistreated. Maybe Adam has some thoughts on this.
Kent
It was more the summer heat in DC. Walking too and from the metro in August when it was 99 degrees and high humidity wearing a navy or charcoal wool suit and tie. I was always a sopping sweaty mess. Women had to wear hose, yes. But could get away with summer dress and lighter, looser clothing otherwise. They always seemed to be more comfortable with the heat than I was. But then I was also on temporary duty assignment from Alaska and so I was probably particularly ill-adapted to DC heat.
Immanentize
@louc:
This is what really bothers me. Her inability (refusal) to say when this happened (“sometime in the Spring”) robs Biden of a defense like, “Nope, I was home having dinner with Jill that day….”
Immanentize
@O. Felix Culpa: “Trust but verify?”
Anya
@germy: we seriously need to stop saying this. It’s Alex Jones level conspiracy nutty and it makes a mockery of the actual credible Russian interference in our election.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@trollhattan:
also, a ludicrously large field, many of whom mistook the Bernie vote in ’16 for being more indicative of the national mood than the ’18 mid-terms (‘Medicare For All’) and college-educated whites being over-represented in the first two contests.
ETA: and twitter. Fucking twitter.
germy
O. Felix Culpa
@Immanentize:
A better description ne’er was made.
Kent
And, having actually worked in Senate offices for a year of my life during that time period I can also tell you that they are NEVER deserted. At least not when the Senate is in session. It isn’t just staff and Senators walking around. But lots of tourists back then. I don’t know if it is still the case, but if you wanted something like a White House pass, you would go visit your Senator or Congressman’s office and the secretary would give you one. And there were lobbyists and business folks ALWAYS prowling the hallways. And if hearings are happening, there are always staff and lobbyists stepping out into the hallways for private discussions and to make phone calls and such. As well as reporters calling in stories, or interviewing folks. Most definitely NOT the sort of place you would pick for a sexual assault. You would pick the Senator’s private office, not a public hallway. Like that NBC sexual predator reporter (forgot his name) who had the special remote control door lock on his office door to trap women inside.
O. Felix Culpa
@Immanentize: Well done.
cthulhu
This is partly what infuriates me when people make Blasey Ford comparisons. She tried her best to provide as many details as possible as she could remember them. And was willing to go under oath. Reade would not even name Biden in a police report.
Kent
Sanders is not a Democrat and has never been a Democrat. The main argument for his repeated presidential campaigns has been to tear down the Democratic party and remake it in his image. We don’t need foreign conspiracy theories to explain Sanders. He has already shown himself to be an enemy of the Democratic party. And many of his followers have taken the ball and run much further with it than he has. The didn’t need the Russians to help them with that. They are perfectly capable of doing it themselves without help.
JoyceH
I think a better slogan than “believe all women” would be simply “take women seriously”. For pete’s sake, when someone goes to the cops and reports a burglary, the cops don’t START with the assumption that the alleged victim is lying. But if they go to the residence, find no evidence of a break-in, and also no evidence that the reporter ever even had the items he claims were stolen, they can reach a conclusion.
JoyceH
Thought – it might be worthwhile for a reporter to escort Reade to the Senate building and ask her to point out where this alleged assault took place.
J R in WV
@Major Major Major Major:
Thanks for this, Major^4 !!
you took the words right out of my mouth!!! To quote a trusted friend… “Just dead-on !!!”
Hoodie
This may have even less credibility than the Burisma accusations, but it doesn’t matter because most people are not going care whether it’s true or not because they’re really not interested in the truth. I had a similar reaction to this when it first came out as I did to the Ukraine allegations; no one is going to run with this except hard core Trumpsters and some press twits who are desperate for some sort of story. Remember that douchebag Vogel, the guy that missed the real story (Trump attempted to extort a made up investigation from Zelensky) because he thought he had some kind of killer scoop about Biden and Ukraine? Too many reporters are ambitious, superficial and, ultimately, stupid.
Irrespective of whatever the facts about something that may or may have not happened 30 years ago, as with the Burisma thing, the advantage Biden has is that he has been around so long and has such an deeply etched image as good ole Uncle Joe, most people are just going to pass on this a political nonsense that doesn’t jibe with his image and that, if it were true, it likely would have come out a long time ago. On top of that, they don’t give a rat’s ass about Tara Reade, given that they’r scared to go to the freaking grocery store. Therefore, I suspect the press will lose interest in this just about as quick as they did with the Ukraine stuff.
The difference between this and rat-effing that Hillary suffered is that a bunch of people are misogynists and Clinton haters because Bill Clinton beat them like a freaking drum throughout the ’90s and was liked by a bunch of people they want to hate. They “believe” everything that was conjured up about Hillary even if they actually know it’s not true. For example, they want to believe she is the head of pedophile ring operating out of the basement of a DC pizza parlor, which all but the most deranged would know is absolutely ridiculous. The plausibility (of lack thereof) or the seriousness (or lack of) of the accusation doesn’t matter; what matters is who the target of the smear is. In other words, the “scandal” is more a proxy for generalized hatred of the target for merely existing than any particular problem with what they are accused of doing.
For that reason, I don’t think this type of attack will work against Biden. There is not a deep well of Biden hatred that this can draw life from.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@J R in WV: I wonder how many MSM bigfeet pundits are waiting for someone else in their club to point out that these accusations, according to what we know today and pace Rebecca Traister, are not, actually, “credible”. And then they can all tweet “provocative case laid out by Bill” or even better, “by Jane”
PJ
There are three Senate office buildings, and Reade can’t say which one it happened in.
Suzanne
@Immanentize:
Yes. And I’ve farted while wearing it, which is a whole next level of weird.
J R in WV
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I disagree. This is taking place with people so far off the normal political spectrum, it is where the right wing authoritarians go so far around back it crashes into the left wing authoritarians.
Left wingers loved Soviet Russia, in spite of the fact that it was an authoritarian Fascist hell hole with no bread on the shelves. They still love Russia even though any pretense of socialism is long dead. See Sen. Sanders, honeymoon in Moscow!
But now right wingers love Russia because Russia is Authoritarian and Fascist. Because RWNJs are Fascists also, too !! See current news plants by RWNJs aided by Russian GRU~!!!~!
Immanentize
@Suzanne: great, enduring, unwanted image!
Princess
@Betty Cracker: Re: your first point (that the neighbour, like lots of women would vote for Biden even believing he assaulted Reade because the alternative is Trump). This is certainly true, but the thing is, the neighbour said on NPR, not just that she would vote for Biden but that she would vote for him because she thought he was a good man, a good guy. There was no holding her nose about it. It sounded…way off to me.
Raven Onthill
Was Biden handsy? Undoubtedly yes. Is he a rapist? Probably not. Is Tara Reade a credible witness on her own behalf? Only if you want to believe.
Something I thought during the time Franken was pressed out: “I am left thinking that if we pressure all the officials with consciences who have done wrong out, we will be left with only the conscienceless and the moral prigs.”
What I wrote after Jane Mayer’s reevaluation of the Franken charges still applies, apparently to executive Democratic officials as well as legislative:
This damages Biden in more ways than simply giving his opponents an excuse to write “But Tara Reade.”
r€nato
it’s a standard GOP ratfuck move, slightly more artful than the Ukraine ratfuck maneuver. Solely for the sake of argument, let’s say Reade is being substantially truthful. Since therefore both candidates would have questionable sexual assault behavior to account for, it’s either disqualifying for both or not disqualifying for both.
Since it is highly unlikely either will withdraw from the race for that reason, let’s look at all the other reasons one or the other is fit or unfit for the job. Oh, right: Biden is still the far better candidate than Trump. Biden never cruelly mocked a man’s disability. Biden never begged Russia on national television to interfere in a presidential election in his favor. Biden never called his generals ‘dopes and babies who don’t know how to win’. Biden trusts scientists and experts and the intelligence community. Biden acts like a grown man, not a whiny little cunt. Biden has the respect of foreign leaders rather than their contempt and scorn. Biden wouldn’t take advantage of a natural disaster to spite the voters of states that didn’t give him their electoral votes. Biden (unlike Kavanaugh) didn’t have a mysterious benefactor pay off his substantial debts prior to entering the race.
I will take this matter a tad more seriously when the right proves it’s not a ratfuck job. Let them pry into her sexual life and come up with extremely high and always-shifting standards of proof. Let them delve into Reade’s political contributions and party affiliation and anything and everything she’s ever done to find ‘dirt’ on her to discredit her. Let them conclusively prove she hasn’t gotten a Paula Jones deal from right-wing activists.
Feathers
@Kent: This. I worked for a summer in Russell Senate Office Building (RSOB in the lingo). The halls are beautiful, with columns, and actually fairly dark when empty. But… yeah, very busy. I worked in a leading Dem office, with a very famous, very conservative Republican next door. Yes, there were pranks in the hallways. But they always involved a lookout at both ends of the hallway to look out for tourists, reporters, lobbyists, etc. And it was always young guys who could run fast if needed. I remember one day there was a desire to do weird bird calls outside the neighbor’s office (where the people logging constituent calls worked). The guy begged off it because his shoes were too slippery that day. Russell has old school polished floors.
That this happened in the Russell hallways is what tipped me off that it was a bullshit story. Also, what gym was she coming from? Was there a staff gym at that point? I thought one had been opened, but it was newer. There’s all article in Roll Call from 2004: Senate Staff Get Their Own Gym, but it says that the gym is new and on a trial basis for 12 months.
Interesting note on the pantyhose. Yes, it was fuckin required everywhere. Where I worked there was a stash of spare coats and ties for the men and a some elastic waisted flowery dresses for women if they weren’t dressed to go in front of the cameras and it became necessary. Women kept spare pantyhose in their desks and lent if necessary, just like tampons.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Feathers:
I wondered about that: Wouldn’t the fact that she was supposed to be bringing Biden his gym bag narrow it down?
but long before we get to those granular details: the change in her story from, again, BARELY ONE YEAR AGO (A Girl Walks Into the Senate.. I linked it upthread)? the tic toc tweet? the horse rescue charity? the Russia stuff (the idea that she was doing bottom feeder PR work– I’m not one to think she’s an agent run out of Moscow) are any of these things ever addressed in the oh-so-carefully neutral MSM write ups?
J R in WV
@Elizabelle:
Probably not really, until and unless it becomes a legal action either criminal or civil. Coaching a witness in a legal action to lie is probably a crime. Just in the news? Not so much…
Leumas
My standard observations is that if there is one accuser and one accused, you have just that. One or the other may be lying or telling the truth or something in between. But one accusation opens the floodgates, if they are there to be opened. If there are multiple, non associated accusers, then there is a problem.
Mnemosyne
I’ll go back to read the rest of comments, but I’ll say something I rarely say to John’s posts: ditto, ditto, ditto.
The thing that makes me so suspicious is that she can’t even pinpoint a MONTH when this happened. Christine Blasey Ford knew that it was in mid-July, but didn’t remember the exact date. Reade can’t even narrow it down to less than a 3-month period: it was March, April, or May. Maybe.
If this really happened, then Reade should go the Blasey Ford route and make a sworn statement that holds legal penalties for lying, something that she has been very careful to avoid doing so far. Funny, that.
Nettoyeur
Any good lawyer would want to take a look at Ms Reade’s reported income and bank deposits for the last year or two. It’s called Discovery…..
BBA
As usual I dissent. Traister is right about this, and wrote about it better than any man can.
But being right doesn’t mean anything in this world. So for six months and three days I’ll hold my tongue.
schrodingers_cat
Why did only the BS campaign of all the D campaigns have help from Russian bots on social media? Why does Putin amplify BS campaign? Both in 2016 and now.
I don’t believe in this level of coincidence.
Mnemosyne
@eric:
I still say that Kavanaugh could have defused the whole thing with a 30-second speech, something like:
When I was a young man, I had a drinking problem that sometimes led to blackouts. With God’s help and the support of my family, I was able to overcome it. I do not remember acting as Dr. Blasey Ford says that I did, but I hope she will accept my most humble apology for frightening her and hope she understands that I am no longer that person.
Done. Boom. He might even have gotten a majority of Democrats to vote for him. But, of course, he couldn’t admit to a “weakness” like that in front of all of his friends, so instead we got red-faced crying and raging denials.
bupalos
I pretty well jumped over to the side of thinking Reade has major credibility problems from the Halper interview itself. Most glaringly two things –
That’s where I’m like, we’ll you COULD be telling the truth, but if you are, you’re being highly manipulative with the telling of that truth.
I think the best odds are that the standard handsy “clueless” harassment Biden is known for and has copped to is really the whole of what actually happened, and for various reasons and motivations it was intentionally blown up. And some of that blowing-up may have been at or around the time of her working there and some of it may have been in the last year.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@BBA: I may regret this, but I’d be curious to hear a brief argument that Reade is credible, based in the actual facts we know. Traister’s whole screed about the ‘poisoned chalice’ rests on that shaky foundation.
Note, I said “brief”
Mnemosyne
@germy:
I work in an archive (though not as an archivist). Anyone who tells you that it’s quick and easy to work through that volume of probably mostly handwritten paper is a fucking idiot who should be assigned to do the task for the next 5 years just so they can see what it really entails.
Mnemosyne
@clay:
From what I recall, Franken was known to be a pretty handsy guy, which is probably why Tweeden was able to gamble that other women would come forward if she did. I think it was an attempt to torpedo Doug Jones’ candidacy against uber-creep Roy Moore by making it seem like the Democrats didn’t really care about sexual assault, and thankfully it did not succeed.
I also would not be surprised if Franken had been unfaithful to his wife of many years at some point and didn’t want that to become public knowledge. That would be very damaging but non-assault related knowledge that could make Franken decide it was better to resign than to have that get dragged out even though it was unrelated to the other claims.
Mnemosyne
@joel hanes:
Eh, I wouldn’t be so sure that Paul Manafort’s former employee Tad Devine wasn’t working for the Russians in 2016. It’s really fascinating how BOTH campaigns that opposed Hillary were run by guys who worked for Putin in Ukraine and Russia and nobody in the media seemed to think that was at all strange.
J R in WV
@Hoodie:
This is so true. Wife worked for 30 years as a news correspondent with The Associated Press. While state house reporter, she once wrote a lede on a legislative story that said something like “This bill flew through committee like Sherman’s march through Georgia!”
She got a call from a desk reporter who was to edit the story and put it on the wire, with a tiny summary. She said “Wife, I don’t understand this lede, who was Sherman and why did he march in Georgia?”
Wife was a little taken back, as reporter had a Masters degree from Columbia (or equiivant Ivy, perhaps Cornell…) and didn’t have basic knowledge about the Civil War. So wife explained that General Sherman marched through Georgia, splitting the CSA in half and forcing an end to the Civil War.
At which point highly educated desk reporter told wife “Oh, I see. Well I’m from New York, and we didn’t have anything to do with the civil war*!!!!!”
Both ignorant and stupid, this one was and is. But typical of many reporters who appear to attempt to not learn anything as they coast through life…!!!
* Of course, in real life, New Your state provided hundreds of thousands of troops for the Union Army, and partly as a result of this there were draft riots in NYC that were famous for their impact on politics and the course of the war. So she must have slept through (or never had any) American history ever in her many years of education.
Also… there are many reporters who are, on the contrary, experts in many fields, having studied those fields intensively for every different story they ever researched and wrote.
TJWeston
Is Hillary “standing by her man” preventing us from viewing Jill Biden’s presence as a strong endorsement of her husband’s character ? Asking for a friend.
Sab
@Immanentize: In my brief stint as a female lawyer in the 1980s I had to carry two pairs of shoes to court on motion days. Some judges insisted on high heels. Anything else showed disrespect. Other judges would insist on flats or pumps because the high heels were too loud. So I would sit in the hall in front of all the other lawyers and clients, switch my shoes, and stuff the unused ones into my briefcase before going to the next courtroom.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: Franken’s political mentor was Paul Wellstone, who was a “hugger”. I’ve heard Al talk about Wellstone and the way he’d greet folk is hug them.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
also, too, I haven’t paid any attention to Michael Moore’s latest movie, because he’s Michael Moore, and he should have been hounded and shamed into silence after he told us all there wasn’t a dime’s worth of difference between Gore and Bush, but I gather in his new movie he comes about against renewable energy?
tam1MI
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: By calling on the National Archives to release Reade’s complaint, IF IT EXISTS, Biden hurled the grenade right back at them. They’re trying to figure out how to respond.
Morzer
@Immanentize:
“Take seriously and review the evidence with an open mind.”
CaseyL
Tom Nichols on the archival document search:
Chris Johnson
@cthulhu: You’re not getting it. Russia doesn’t do well-thought-out plans anymore, they do this. Stochastic chaos and undermining, to the Nth degree, as a modern style of warfare. Probably learned it from the CIA in Central America, didn’t invent it, have escalated it to unprecedented levels.
I am amazed when anybody out there hasn’t figured out we’re in a bombless war with Russia, which has been seriously winning. I also tend to suspect ’em all of being Russians, which is a side effect of Russia winning: they want me paranoid, and are getting their wish because of the sheer amount of shit they’ve pulled off and the degree of simultaneous obviousness and denial they practice.
This is one of the obvious parts.
And I doubt this woman got ‘trained as an agent’: more like, turned in some way, and then used without a lot of concern for her welfare, as they do. There’s no exit plan for these people any more than there is for Trump. They’re just wrecking balls, and are probably threatened and terrorized into doing what they do. The Russian mob is scary and answers to Putin, or at least it’s plausible it does. You don’t have to do all that much to have people panicking and carrying on in ways they think will appease Russia. That’s what all this is.
Mnemosyne
@CaseyL:
I was able to find the photos from the University of Delaware’s archive that someone referred to above, and it’s probably closer to a million individual pieces of paper judging by how full the bays are:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/uofdlibrary/7167049215/in/album-72157630020264989/
But, sure, a couple of interns could digitize and OCR all of that in a day, say people* who know nothing about digitization. ?
* Present company excepted.
Chris Johnson
@Mnemosyne: This. Sanders ended up getting rid of Devine, but it was too little too late for me. The problem with Bernie is he got used as a catspaw and WAY too much of his organization was out of Russia. I worked in 2016 in NH (early in the primary) and saw some funny things, and boy did I run into some rabid Hillary haters, which confused me back then. Some of the people who in retrospect were most like possible Russian agents got yanked out of NH and sent to places like… Nevada.
As early as 2016, Bernie’s operation was totally owned. I worked for it in NH, I was there to see though I didn’t understand at the time. And now, it’s so completely compromised that it’s a shame upon the Left for generations probably… which of course is the intention. It’s not like they were trying to HELP Bernie or the Left. These are ruthless people, and they’re trying to wreck everything they touch… or, preferably, have us all wreck each other.
nicestrategeryorsomething
John Cole’s solid analysis and common-sense have won the internet on this topic.
Empathetic, with rigor, humility, and perspective.
Like a good teacher should be, and is.
Thank you.
PJ
@Mnemosyne: That’s just two pallets from the first truckload. There are supposedly close to two thousand boxes total (but I’ve got to believe it’s more than that, over a 50 year career.)
brantl
If you think that they wouldn’t find a way to do the equivalent of this to a woman, you don’t know the pricks that these people are.
Feathers
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ah, I thought she was coming from the gym and it was her gym bag. That’s even weirder. I’ve been an assistant for many, many years. You wouldn’t meet your boss somewhere with the gym bag. A senator does not stand around in the hall waiting for somebody. The dangers of getting waylaid by someone he didn’t want to talk to are too high. You’d take it directly to the gym, racing to get there before him and leave it at the front desk. As an assistant, your time means nothing, how far you run is nothing. (Actually, there is usually some sense of moderation, but when push comes to shove…)
Also, this whole thing seems set up for maximum fuckery. It’s all in Business Insider, but behind a paywall, to maximize ability to make maximum claims about what the article says, without anybody actually reading the article.
GeoWHayduke
She is 100% full of shit. This is a clear cut ratfucking.
biden has handled this adroitly, calling for a full investigation, because there is nothing. Fucking. There.
Gvg
@Nora Lenderbee: exactly. Bill vetoed several religious misogynistic bills that frightened me. I regarded him as a blocker to protect my rights. That also thought me to place policy and voting record over personal. Republicans were so obviously dishonest in their witch hunting that I really didn’t believe the intern until the semen test of the blue dress. Science and facts. I still didn’t want him to resign. For that matter JFK and FDR both had affairs and I had heard about that at an early age. Consider what Biden is likely to pass and what he will veto and who he will appoint. Then tell me who you vote for. Also why I don’t care for Sanders and hate Trump.
brantl
@schrodingers_cat: Defending “dictatorships” for their record on freaking literacy? Who are you kidding? I don’t love Bernie, but anybody that wants to take him to task for this, needs to grow up.
grandpa john
Two very important points that are the most revealing of indicating falsehood of her many statements and changes of the story. 1. non of the supposed events have a date or time line or happened in a location that can allow for verification. 2. not one statement or utterance of supposed fact, was ever sworn to under oath.
SW
Its really just all about Joe’s response. Its tricky because of the way we’ve painted the Me too thing. “Believe the woman”. It is rather unequivocal isn’t it? Did in AL Franken didn’t it? So, now it requires some subtly. Well…. Here it is.
This is what Old Joe should say about the matter, and nothing more.
“I believe Ms Reade’s original complaint, that she filed in 1993. Back then, many of us were ignorant. I include myself in that statement. We were caught up in a culture that condoned indeed celebrated ways of complementing of interacting with women that many found uncomfortable, even offensive. Although I have no memory of doing anything intentionally offensive to Ms Reade, if that was her experience, I have no reason to doubt her. For that I am truly sorry. But although times have changed and we have hopefully all evolved during the intervening years, I have always known what constitutes assault. And I promise you I have never assaulted anyone, including Ms Reade. There are powerful economic, political and social forces at work here who would like to use Ms Reade to draw a parallel between my behavior and the behavior of others and suggest that I am somehow not fit for the Presidency. I hope that Ms. Reade is not a victim of these forces in this process and that she manages to reconcile herself with the truth.”