This is a show stopper of a poll:
?Partisan gap on COVID in CNBC battleground poll:
Rs v Ds on whether these activities are safe *right now*:
Restaurant dining
70% R v 5% D
Bars
52% R v 4% D
Flying
46% R v 5% D
Mass transit
40% R v 2% D
*Large sporting events*
37% R v 2% Dhttps://t.co/b5DxxMAzVd
— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) May 6, 2020
However, I have one big question — does this set of questions predict actual leave the house behavior compared to the behavior to give a polarized partisan-aligned answer to own the libs?
I think both factors are in play. The question is how much of the question is predicting actual behavioral changes as defined by someone leaving the house and going to a sit down restaurant for an hour instead of merely giving the “politically right” answer as a form of self-identification?
Elizabelle
I guess we will have our answers WRT restaurants and retail within the next month.
Good point about owning the libs answers.
LuciaMia
The Air Travel, especially. Is there social distancing in the plane’s cabin? Or do they envision going back to pre-Covid seating? Not to mention the recycled air.
Yeah, I think theres a real assholish tone to the R’s responses.
trollhattan
Isn’t the mass transit response a tell? Republicans loathe mass transit but where it exists they assume “those people” are the ones using it. “Go right ahead.”
patrick II
I had a doctor who is a Republican. At an appointment a couple of months ago I told him I was concerned about the coronavirus. He told me not to worry, it was just like the flu. I am 72 years old and looking for a new doctor.
Bill Arnold
I have been awaiting studies of party affiliation vs COVD-19 status.
The 4 people I know personally who have had it are two Republican couples, who were both proudly out and about after it became clear that COVID-19 was a threat in the area and before state distancing guidelines. “Worse than the worst flu”, but none of the 4 ended up in the hospital. I’ll be sure to ask them whether they have any (checks notes) resulting life-long lung damage, kidney damage, heart damage, liver damage, brain damage (strokes, or virus-caused lesions). No, really, I will ask them.
So i differentially avoid being physically close to known Republicans, though relaxed a bit with NY States compulsory mask/face covering order, thank you Cuomo.
Mnemosyne
I already have Facebook friends who live in red states saying that people are flocking to restaurants while ignoring the rules about social distancing, wearing a mask, etc. So, yeah, big train’s a-coming and a whole lot of people are going to find themselves under it.
cain
It’s best to just avoid republicans – we know they are all plague carriers. They don’t care about spreading the disease.
Bill Arnold
@patrick II:
COVID-19 is turning out to remarkable useful at unmasking the [unmasked] stupid gullible psychopaths. Taking notes of a lot of names both locally and in the public sphere.
cain
@Mnemosyne:
If it is in red states, at least they won’t gaslight and blame Democrats since they aren’t in charge anywhere. That’s usually the MO. Although I guess what they will do instead is hit conspiracy theory land and try to find someone to punish like bill gates, china, and jill stein.
Peale
I’m surprised they didn’t ask the question about church services.
Alex
Unfortunately, even if it’s largely a performative identification with regard to the survey respondent’s own behavior, it will be enough to force employees into dangerous situations as “reopening” becomes the policy. Business owners will be pressured as their competitors open back up, and a lot of employees are going to be placed in impossible situations.
Sab
Your question is why I currently like Gov deWine, although he is very reluctantly edging towards opening up. When he slammed is into a shutdown it gave business owners an excuse to do the right thing.
It’s easier to say “our Republican governor ordered it” than to say “I follow news other than Fox and I think it is best for the safety of me and my employees, and I hope you understand why our service to customers and clients isn’t as prompt as usual.”
Our clients don’t necessarily agree that we are at risk, but they do understand that licensed businesses don’t ignore the Governor and local health departments.
bbleh
It can, of course, be both. Going to a restaurant without a mask as a mark of tribal affiliation, aka to own the libs.
Just wait til Trump holds a rally.
The real tragedy is, the truth probably never will come out. Figure it’ll take a month or more of unsafe behavior to start ramping up the curve of infection, and then the usual week or two of incubation and another week or two until it starts showing up in the death statistics. That’s two months or more between cause and effect. The cultists and other Republicans will have no trouble asserting — and believing — that there’s no connection.
NickM
These are bullshit answers by Republicans I think – flying is permissible right now and is down 95%.
Alex
@Bill Arnold: Here in Michigan, the main outbreak has been in heavily Democratic Detroit. I don’t personally know any Republicans who’ve had it. That’s why the rural white protesters are complaining about the shutdown (“we shouldn’t be penalized just because of those people in Detroit having a problem again”). Once it starts spreading in rural areas, I fully expect them to switch to “you people infected us!”
West of the Rockies
Republicans who trust science: 4%
Democrats who trust science: 89%
MattF
It’s hard to believe a factor of ten in real behavior. But we shall see…
Jeffery
@patrick II:
“What doctors lack in skill, they make up for in confidence.”
Colm Toibin.
West of the Rockies
@cain:
They carry the diseases of racism, bigotry, homophobia, misogyny, mistrust of science, math, facts…
Obdurodon
@cain: There was a meme going around for a while that we shouldn’t have needed a pandemic to get people to wash their hands. I think the same principle applies to hanging out with Republicans.
Barbara
The funny thing is that even among Republicans (and to a lesser extent among Democrats) you see the same trend — sporting events and mass transit are definitely less safe than restaurant dining. Still, flying and going to bars strike me as probably just as unsafe as sporting events and mass transit, but I don’t really know.
I make no prediction for individual behavior. I hope that the restaurants around here continue to observe limitations on the number in attendance. I live in a state where the prevalence of cases is definitely found in institutional settings, but still, the level of testing is not high enough to keep it from spreading outward. We will be hunkering down for the foreseeable future.
Brachiator
We are beyond the “own the libs” crap because the answer to the question, “is it safe?” is objective and non-partisan.
I am more at risk so the question is answered for me. There are a lot of activities that I will give up or severely reduce until there is a vaccine. It’s pretty simple.
It’s funny that conservatives just want to stop even thinking about the issue in the name of “liberty” and “personal responsibility.”
My mother lives with my sister, who has been working at home. Her employer is about to re-open as usual, with the blessings of the state governor. My sister is going to be having some tough conversations and choices. They previously treated her as super-essential. She does her job better than previous people in the position. But if she cannot continue to work from home, she is going to ask them for some physical space changes to help insure that she does not catch the virus and take it home where our mother might become infected. And if she doesn’t like the answer, she won’t quit right away, but will definitely be looking for a new job.
dmsilev
“Republicans riding public transit to own the libs” was not high on the list of things I would have predicted for this year.
Obdurodon
@Alex: *So far* urban areas have been the hardest hit, and urban minorities harder still. But my impression is that’s beginning to shift, as the mostly-whiter people in mostly-redder small cities and rural areas fail to learn from others’ mistakes. By the time all is said and done, I’m not so sure those places will fare well by comparison.
Just Chuck
@Bill Arnold:
They’re Republicans. I can leave it there.
Elizabelle
@bbleh:
Fuck them. They are lost until they’re 6 feet under. Don’t even count them for anything. Some might have an epiphany once ‘rona strikes near to them, but until then …
It’s the noncultists that are reachable, and might observe what is actually happening.
I don’t know why we spend so much time obsessing over the non-reachable. Waste of time.
FIDO. Raven’s useful acronym. Fuck it and drive on.
Just Chuck
@dmsilev: The sharp drop-off going below even 50% suggests they don’t want to take the risk of public transpo. Because yunno those people are infected.
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: There is no “and” in FIDO.
dnfree
“Change Research conducted a poll of 3,544 likely voters May 1-3 across 6 competitive battleground states: Arizona, Florida, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. A companion national survey of 1,489 likely voters was also conducted May 1-3, 2020. Unless otherwise stated, the results presented in this analysis are among battleground state voters.“
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Mnemosyne:
The time lag between action and consequence is hard for people to parse.
patrick II
If as low of a percentage of Democrats go to restaurants, bars, or use mass transit as this poll suggests, it seems that social spacing won’t be a problem as it would otherwise be. Of course, they won’t wear masks so that’s a negative.
Elizabelle
@Omnes Omnibus: Pedant! But yeah.
I live by FIDO for some issues these days.
different-church-lady
Dying
0% R v 0% D
Other People Dying
90% R v 0% D
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: Any former or current service member cold have told you same. If you use the term, use it right.
jl
Well, OK, let the R’s get themselves sick and killed if they want. I think morality dictates that sane people try to persuade them not to put themselves and others in harms way, but if they won’t listen after repeated explanations, really nothing to be done.
OTOH, I think important to remember that several countries, first in Asia, and now in Europe, are showing that societies can do much better at getting out from under extreme and lengthy shut downs than the US is. Some regions of the country have done good jobs at managing the hands they were dealt in handling the epidemic. They should be able to gradually open up so we don’t have to sit home all the time. Would be a mistake for liberals and sane people to turn enduring an extreme shut down as virtue signalling that they can endure more than others.
As I noted yesterday, these kinds of shut downs were studied in depth for the next flu pandemic . They were supposed to be very extreme and much shorter than what some people are talking about for covid-19. For pandemic flu, there was cavalry that could come to the rescue, and that included, as soon as the epidemic was tamped down enough, to start expanded versions of established testing, contact tracking and quarantine.
No one understands well the dangers and risks of prolonged extreme shut downs, particularly in a country with a broke ass safety net and miserable level of population health like the US today.
You may call me a dreamer, but I’m not the only one. As noted, several countries are demonstrating every damn day that they can do much better.
It is true that some of the sketchy reopen states displayed willful incompetence and obtuseness in being able to do a competent shut down in the first place, but that is another issue.
different-church-lady
@Jeffery:
One of the best decisions I ever made was firing a surgeon who exhibited that attitude before he could get his knife on me.
different-church-lady
Imagine the “This is fine” dog, except the flames are invisible.
Sab
@Barbara: In my job, in Ohio, I do not know what my bosses believed. I do know that a large minority of employees were deeply concerned. We are a tiny firm 11 people, 3 of them partners. They let the mothers work from home when the schools closed. When push came to shove, 2 of the other employees who could afford to quit/ take leave did so. So 2 of their 8 employees bailed, 2 others worked from home, and 1 drastically cut her hours. 1 of those who continued to work was deeply concerned about her safety. That is an office not retail, but it isn’t a sustainable way to run things
ETA : 2 of your 8 employees feel safe working in the current environment. I felt like a heel when I bailed, but I think it was a necessary wake-up call to the owners. We aren’t screamimg at you but we are scared and unhappy.
International Mikey
I’m okay with these idiots owning me to the grave. If that makes them happy, have at it.
Another Scott
https://www.poemuseum.org/the-masque-of-the-red-death
Yay! They were safe!! ;-)
I’m not clairvoyant enough to know what the infection and death totals will be, but since we still have insufficient PPE, no effective treatment, no vaccine, and don’t even have sufficient testing to know the extent of the infection in the US, unnecessarily going out among others still seems terribly foolish. And dangerous to others.
There was a clip a few weeks ago on the BBC of a cop somewhere in the UK yelling at someone (who had been found to be positive and ordered to stay home) to “GO HOME. YOU’RE KILLING PEOPLE!!” Maybe it will take such things here to snap people out of it…
Grrr…
Cheers,
Scott.
Chief Oshkosh
@Bill Arnold:
How would be able to tell?
jl
@Barbara: “We will be hunkering down for the foreseeable future.”
Understandable, but it shouldn’t have to be that way. One thing that needs to be emphasized is the sheer stupidity of the Trumpster/GOP and a large chunk of the ruling corporate oligarchs of this country. They’ve been pampered for so long by getting the government to shove all the cash they want down their gullets. And this has gone on so long that they are both insane and incapable of running anything, not even a lemonade stand for GS cookie sale. All they know how to do is grab any cash that isn’t firmly nailed down. Honing that skill is the sole world historic contribution of US society over the last 30 years or so to humanity.
After so many Times covers proclaiming them the Masters of the Universe, they think it’s true and if they can just issue orders, business will go on as usual. They don’t have to do one damn thing than issue orders, and they get lots of cash.
Sadly for them, they can’t order the virus around, and they can’t order people who fear for their health and life around. Their BS Grand Reopening will flop, because people aren’t going do all the shopping and eating and movie watching the bigshots order them to do.
The usual technique of threatening the lesser people with ruin if they don’t jump quick like a bunny as ordered won’t work. Getting permanently maimed from a serious sickness or dead, will ruin people too. And more and more are seeing the severity of covid-19 with their own lying eyes.
Peale
@Another Scott: Its not just that we don’t have vaccines or treatments or medicines or supplies. Its that we seem to be completely broken as a country to produce those things as we need them. That breaking has come from electing Trump who breaks things, makes decisions based on his donors and promotes quackery if it makes his donors money. I really doubt that any of the research into vaccines conducted so far will be shown to be any good. Instead, we really do seem to have an FDA that is going to approve treatments and vaccines based on bribes, stock ownership offers, and cronyism.
Hopefully some place like Poland or Gabon has a better handle on how to conduct scientific research necessary to produce a safe and effective vaccine. I think we would be better off as a planet were we to allow China to come in and kidnap our researchers. We won’t put them to good use here.
MoCA Ace
FIFY. Today’s conservatives are uniquely unfamiliar with that second term.
WhatsMyNym
If anyone is looking to buy non-medical masks, check Etsy. Ordered from one seller earlier today and they already shipped. You do have to pick your way thru a lot of sellers, but I selected 2 different sellers based on the west coast.
Brachiator
@Obdurodon:
This is not entirely true. Even considering the impact on black people, a recent CNN report included this:
And a tremendous number of deaths have involved nursing homes and assisted living facilities, patients and staff. I would really like to see a breakdown by gender and ethnicity.
But I get the feeling that quite a number of white people who think they are immune are also willing to kiss their parents and grandparents goodbye.
And as people defy social distancing recommendations, the impact of the virus may change in unexpected ways.
Early studies in China suggested that men were more at risk of death than women, but I don’t know whether that has varied as other countries have been hit.
Matt McIrvin
Nate Silver or one of the 538 people recently wrote something saying that, in fact, behavior didn’t vary nearly as much between Democrats and Republicans as the responses to these sorts of questions did. But I can’t find it now.
The same data are referenced here though: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-political-is-the-coronavirus-pandemic-already/
kindness
The virus does not care whether you are Republican or Democrat. Karma will happen but it is sad some people will become infected by bad actors.
cain
It’s quite likely that they’ve (Republicans) looked at where all the virus has infected – minorities and large cities and made a bet that it’ll just only stay there and it isn’t going to spread to the rural areas where most of their support is.
But we all know that’s not how virus works. So for now the demographics affected works for them because it targets the people they want to target. But over time, that’s not going to be the case. I am going to be very interested in the walkbacks that is going to happen.
The other thing that is going to kill them is that because we aren’t doing proper testing we have no way of figuring out if we are done or not. I suspect highly that other countries that have controlled the spread will very likely ban travel from the U.S. or have very strong restrictions in terms of flights coming in from the U.S. etc. That is going to drag commerce down. The Marmalade Malarian is going to predicatively lash out and make it worse.
jl
@Matt McIrvin: Would be interesting to get the numbers by proximity to a serious outbreak in the general population. Not sure GOPers near meat packing plant outbreaks that haven’t spread yet would care that much. But if an epidemic wave had gone through their neighborhood?
Not sure data are available for that breakdown, though.
rikyrah
Knock yourself out.
It?won’t?be ?me?
gvg
The thing that jumps out at me from that poll, is that poorer people are more likely to have to do things they think are dangerous. Going to a restaurant to eat is a choice and will impact it’s profitability. Going because you’ll lose your job and unemployment which will lead to no food AND losing your apartment or house where you can avoid people and have choices like homelessness or moving back with friends or family who may also have to work…This is how they drag us along to death.
Subsole
@patrick II: Had that conversation at work the other day. The number of folks who don’t see what’s coming is depressing and terrifying.
Matt McIrvin
@cain: Or maybe they’re planning to shelter at home while claiming all this stuff is safe so they can force city people and minorities to do them to draw a paycheck. Then the city people and minorities start dying in large enough numbers to flip a couple of swing states.
That probably assumes more strategic thinking than they’ve got, though.
Sab
Mike deWine didn’t have press conference today. I bet it is really unpleasant behind the scenes there today. Any fly on the wall would be squashed.
I really wish I could type with my fat fingers on my Nook and hit n when I meant to instead of m. It’s just one key away and I always get it wrong.
Much better than autocorrect which rewrote whole sentences to the point where I couldn’t remember what I had intended. Here, if you think it should be an n and I type an m, it should have been an n. Typo. Almost always.
Subsole
@Alex: Yep. What really sets their assholishness apart is how utterly damn tedious and predictable it is.
Subsole
@Matt McIrvin:
The leadership, maybe.
The rank and file? Nope. They mean that shit. It’s all a ‘Gimmecrat’ hoax that was cooked up in a lab in China and isn’t any worse than the flu anyhow.
Barbara
The refusal to have used the month of April to gear up for a coordinated national testing program that focuses in particular on employees moving in and out of institutional settings and warehouses and manufacturing plants is nothing short of reckless homicide on Trump’s part. I have very dark thoughts when my mind wanders in this direction but even the possibility of karma keeps me from expressing them.
Amir Khalid
@LuciaMia:
From what I’ve seen, social distancing on a plane would reduce passenger capacity in business and first by at least half, and in economy by quite a bit more than that. Which would likely make it unprofitable to operate a flight. Of course, that might not be a problem in practice; hardly anybody wants or needs to fly right now, and many destination countries have closed their borders.
gvg
@Peale: Scientific research happens at Universities and certain kinds of companies. I assure you, they are still there. The problem is the government isn’t listening and going from research to production involves a lot of different actors to come together and Trump is trying to break them all. I swear, sometimes I do think he is an actual foreign agent or at least an anti American agent. His past record shows long stupidity so probably not but it amazes me how wrong he gets EVERYTHING! It’s hard to think it’s just coincidence.
How could enough people not have noticed how stupid his actual record was? My conservative relatives were screeching in high pitched voices from the beginning “not Trump” and really hate him. My gun nut Uncle voted for Obama already and Clinton too though. He was a Vietnam Vet who noticed Iraq was as stupidly run. So I guess they aren’t typical, but they knew he was a conman and they aren’t that news oriented. People should have known.
Percysowner
The rubber meets the road on Tuesday for me. My daughter and SIL have been working from home and doing a good job of self isolating. I watch my granddaughter so they can actually get work done. We live in Ohio and my SIL works for the State Legislature. Next week they are sort of going back to work. all employees will work 1/2 a day a week. They usually work in 4 person cubicles, and there will only be one person per cubicle. They will be asked to wear masks, but none will be provided by the State. Most of this I can live with. The problem is the office on the 8th floor and there is no access by stair, everybody has to pile into the elevators, that they share with the rest of the building. Employees are being told only 4 people per elevator (seems like too many to me) and people must wear masks when in the elevator. However this is, as I said, Ohio and Representative Nino Vitale says “says he won’t wear a mask because it dishonors God.”, so I’m less than sure that elevators will be particularly safe (the Legislature is one floor higher than my SIL’s, so who knows what will actually happen. Now I have to decide if I feel safe taking care of my granddaughter. It’s all so STUPID. They have been working at home for weeks and have ironed out most of the kinks, but for some reason, they now have to go in and expose themselves more than I or my kids are comfortable with.
Matt McIrvin
@Subsole: I do think the White House inner circle outright want to kill as many Democrats as possible (and are getting increasingly brazen about saying so). Including decimating blue states, even though that won’t really help them in the current election.
MisterForkbeard
@jl: I don’t think we’re virtue signalling, per se: It’s just that the right path right now does not mean re-opening in the sense that it’s happening.
I can see some limited re-openings: California seems to be on the right path here. They’re having limited & curbside openings for retail stores this Friday.
After that, there’s a few weeks of waiting before we see another change.
Subsole
@Obdurodon: They won’t. Rural health networks tend to be understaffed and overstretched and – at least where I am – already hammered by decades of state (read:GOP) mismanagement. It’s gonna be extra-worse because if those local facilities get overwhelmed, geography limits your options.
The governor here got caught admitting on an open mic this nonsense is going to spike our covid cases. Which were already increasing the day he announced we were opening back up.
Ugly does not begin to describe the coming summer.
Kent
Covid-19 is becoming the new Climate Change. The GOP is making it into a test of your party loyalty rather than belief in science. The lemmings are stampeding along behind them.
Fuckers are gonna kill us all.
Yutsano
@West of the Rockies: Sounds like we need to remake the Seven Deadly Sins.
rikyrah
@Obdurodon:
they won ‘t because they don’t have a healthcare infrastructure.
Capri
My governor actually said out loud that the people who are going to church are the “control group.” It hasn’t phased them at all, I don’t think the churchgoers know what it means.
LevelB
I saw this poll posted elsewhere, with the takeaway that this shows dems united and pubs split. Yes, I am always looking for ‘the base’ to fracture, so I have some hope.
B.
rikyrah
@WhatsMyNym:
you want to leave their names?
I am trying to order from different places. Trying out different masks so that I have a wide variety for when I have to physically have to go back to work.
trnc
True, but they won’t learn from this, either. They’ll blame those “urban” (wink) people for bringing it into their nice, wholesome suburbs and farms.
Never underestimate the learning ability of the (self identified) aggrieved.
Brachiator
@cain:
Ironically, Trump may get his wall, but ironically it may be a wall that keeps Americans in, not one that keeps immigrants out.
WhatsMyNym
@rikyrah:
They are all small companies with limited stock. Also, what style works for me might not be best for another person. There are plenty of reviews on Etsy, and I recommend reading the detail from the seller.
catclub
or as I put it. People have the patience of a flea. Trump is worse.
Jeffro
This would all be happening a lot more efficiently if Donald J(im Jones) trumpov would just tell his adoring fanbase to drink the Kool-Aid already.
But…if it takes a few months…ok!
Jeffro
And this is all happening because
JimV
This might have already been commented: both sides may be correct, under different interpretations. Most people will recover from the virus so yes, going to a restaurant isn’t too dangerous to you, especially if you’ve already had or have the virus, or don’t have the risk factors. It will spread the virus and more people will be put at risk, so yes it is a danger to society.
I’ve stopped responding to polls. The questions always seem open to interpretation if they’re not push-polls (which they usually are). And what’s the point of asking me what I think? Ask an expert. Poll all the experts and publish that.
Brachiator
@Percysowner:
I really don’t get that dishonors God thing. Is that from Deuteronomy?
Quiltingfool
I live in the Lake of the Ozarks area (not on the lake, mind you, but in a rural area about 15 miles from a “lake” town). Woo whee, the folks around here are acting like a hound that just broke its chain. Running around like they got a fire lit under their heinies. Most everything is open, and the lake home folks have left KC, StL, Illinois and Iowa to start summer early. I’m figuring in about 3 weeks or so we’re going to see the illness start. I haven’t worn a mask, I limit my trips and watch my distance, but no more. I have seen more folks wearing masks, and shop employees are wearing them, so that’s a positive. When I hear some of the people around here poo-pooing the virus, I grit my teeth and think to myself, “Did anyone ask what the stupid people think?”
Bill Arnold
@Brachiator:
Passport applications/renewals are effectively suspended:
Passport Operations in Response to COVID-19 (May 1, 2020)
We shall see whether reopening America means allowing Americans to travel outside “their” country resuming normal passport operations.
Bill Arnold
@Brachiator:
Well there’s this in Exodus:
And when Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil on his face.
I presume that doing as Moses did is somehow theologically forbidden.
Brachiator
@Bill Arnold:
Fuck. I actually need to get my passport renewed. It’s not critical, but would be useful. I know that a lot of IRS operations have been suspended (no paper return processing), but I had clean forgot about other agencies that would also be affected.
Thanks for the unexpectedly useful reminder.
jl
@MisterForkbeard: Sorry, didn’t mean to accuse anyone here of virtue signalling at this point. Maybe I am just hyper alert about where patterns of thought can go if we lose a sense of ‘situational awareness’, to use tactical talk.
And also, it seems like countries like South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Japan, and now New Zealand, Denmark, Norway, Finland, just don’t exist. Except occasionally some snot nosed punk news articles describe what those countries are doing, and then end with the dismissal: “Waaalll gggeeee cases are rising there, their plan might blow up, might not work,, cases are rising…. might not work… ” as if the author wants to find an excuse for the US not being able to wipe its own ass. Now, months later, some of those countries have had outbreaks, yes. But they’ve been controlled. And the levels of disease and death per capita are orders of magnitude below those in the US.
So, everyone should keep that in mind, and that we do not need to face the shitty choices offered to us by our miserably failed national leadership.
Percysowner
@Brachiator:
I guess he’s the perfect image of God and nobody should ever forget that.
J R in WV
@Percysowner:
I don’t think so !!!
What an ego this monster has!
Nettoyeur
Let’s hope that MAGAts stick together socially so they infect each other and not sane people. A cull could raise the regular and emotional IQs of the US.