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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Rofer on International Relations / Michael Flynn’s Conversations

Michael Flynn’s Conversations

by Cheryl Rofer|  May 21, 20209:19 am| 68 Comments

This post is in: Rofer on International Relations, Rofer on Nuclear Issues, Trump Crime Cartel

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The repercussions of Donald Trump’s relationship with Russia don’t go away. Michael Flynn is a part of that relationship, although it is not clear how much of his interaction with Russian officials was directed by Trump. Trump keeps interactions at arm’s length so that he can claim he is not responsible for his administration’s wrongdoing. Flynn had connections to Russia before he became part of Trump’s machine.

Attorney General William Barr has requested that the case be dropped against Flynn for lying to federal agents, to which Flynn pleaded guilty. Judge Emmet Sullivan plans to open the case to amicus curiae briefs and has appointed a retired federal judge to argue against the government’s case for dismissal.

Acting DNI Richard Grenell has released records of requests for “unmasking” that resulted in the legal action against Flynn and the discovery that Flynn was lying to Vice President Mike Pence, for which he was fired by Trump. Those records raise further questions of what Flynn was doing.

Flynn had a number of irons in the fire. From a Washington Post summary:

  • Flynn used his social media accounts to spread Q-Anon-type conspiracy theories.
  • Flynn was paid $45,000 to appear at a 2015 gala in celebration of Russian propaganda network RT (he sat at Vladimir Putin’s table during the dinner). Former senior military officials are supposed to receive Pentagon permission before accepting such payments; Flynn apparently did not.
  • While working as an adviser to the Trump campaign in 2016, Flynn was also secretly working on behalf of the Turkish government, being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to advocate Turkey’s interests. This consisted, in large part, of seeking to discredit Fethullah Gulen, a dissident Turkish cleric now living in the United States. On Election Day in 2016, Flynn wrote an op-ed for the Hill blasting Gulen and praising Turkey, but did not disclose that he was being paid to do so.
  • Flynn also failed to register as a foreign agent as required by law, only doing so retroactively after he was fired as national security adviser in 2017.
  • During the transition after the 2016 election, Flynn maneuvered to delay a U.S. military operation against the Islamic State, an operation Turkey opposed because it involved a partnership between the U.S. and Kurdish forces.

President Barack Obama warned Trump against hiring Flynn, who was forced out of his position as director of the Defense Intelligence Agency because of insubordination, making up “Flynn facts,” and generally paranoid behavior. He also promulgated Islamophobia.

Flynn pleaded guilty to two charges of lying to federal investigators about his December 29, 2016, phone conversations with Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador to the United States. At that time, Flynn had been named by Trump as his National Security Advisor.

The list of requestors declassified by Grenell, however, is for the time period 8 November 2016 to 31 January 2017. In that list are 39 requests before the dates of those telephone calls and 8 after. The requests bunch around December 14-16.* We do not know the subject(s) that raised the interest of officials across several agencies.

Those mid-month requests came from John Brennan, CIA Director (2); James Comey, FBI Director (1); Treasury Department officials (6); John Tefft, Ambassador to Russia (1); NATO officials (8); Executive Briefer, DOE Intelligence and Counterintelligence Office (2); Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, Deputy Secretary of Energy (1); Chief Syria Group (2); Deputy Assistant Director of NEMC (1) (National Media Exploitation Center, DNI?); Patrick Conlon, director of the White House Office of Intergovernmental Affairs (1); two marked only COS and DCOS (Chief of Staff and Deputy?); and two from CMO (Chief Management Officer DOD?).

It’s possible that these unmasking requests were in reference to more than one incident. The requests from Brennan and Comey could have been about anything. The requests from the Department of the Treasury likely had to do with sanctions. Anyone having questionable conversations with the Russian Ambassador to the United states would be of interest to the American Ambassador to Russia. NATO officials might have been concerned about Flynn’s ties to Turkey.

A topic on which a number of these requestors might converge is Flynn’s venture with a group trying to sell civilian nuclear power in the Middle East. The House Oversight Committee looked into that effort in late 2018 in response to a whistleblower complaint in June 2017 and issued an interim report, which shows that the venture was quite active after the election through early 2018.

The origins of the venture go back at least to 2015, when Flynn partnered with Alex Copson, a nuclear entrepreneur who had been pushing big ideas since 1997. The plan they came up with was grandiose – they called it “A Marshall Plan for the Middle East.” It combined commerce with national security policy. Russia and China would work with the United States to sell 40 power reactors to Middle Eastern countries; Israel would benefit from the power generation. Iran and its allies would be excluded, and Russia would split from Iran in order to sell reactors.

Jeff Stein described the plan in 2017, and I’ve written a description from original documents. The plan changed over time, most significantly eliminating Russia and China as suppliers. A large component of the plan was a private security force to guard the reactors. Early claims were that the program would cost the United States nothing, but the activities that the House Oversight Committee looked into had to do with acquiring US government funding.

One of the odd things about this venture is that only one of those involved in it had any expertise in nuclear power. Nor did the group do any groundwork to bring in reactor manufacturers from the United States, Russia or China. Although at one time Saudi Arabia expressed interest in buying 16 nuclear reactors, plummeting oil prices made that impossible.

They seem not to have understood that the US government must approve sales of nuclear technology to other countries, or to have believed that they could strongarm those sales through without approval. That last is what the House Oversight Committee investigated and is remarkably similar to the emergency declaration for arms sales to Saudi Arabia that the State Department Inspector General is said to be looking into. If it were discussed in those telephone calls, it would have drawn the attention of the Departments of Treasury and Energy as well as law enforcement agencies.

The House Oversight Committee investigation found that IP3 had a plan ready to go and expected it to start right after the 2017 inauguration, with explicit support and promotion by the Trump administration. In December 2017, it looked like furthering this venture was part of Flynn’s motivation to have sanctions on Russia removed. The whistleblowers’ letter quoted Alex Copson as saying that “General Flynn was making sure that sanctions would be ‘ripped up’ as one of his first orders of business and that this would allow money to start flowing into the project.”

One of the principals of the company involved, IP3, is Robert “Bud” McFarlane, who was involved in the Iran-Contra scandal while he was Ronald Reagan’s National Security Advisor and pleaded guilty to four misdemeanor counts of withholding information from Congress. He was sentenced to two years’ probation and a $20,000 fine but was pardoned by President George H.W. Bush. Attorney General (then and now) William Barr recommended that pardon.

The willingness of the group to try to direct US foreign policy in the Middle East via a scheme that would make money for them would raise the concerns of most in that unmasking list. But keep in mind that other topics may have been involved in Flynn’s conversations.

Lindsey Graham has sent a letter to Acting DNI Richard Grenell and Attorney General Barr requesting the names of officials who requested unmasking of the names of Trump campaign or transition team members and the reasons given for those requests. Mark Warner, ranking Democratic member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, has sent a letter to Grenell requesting the underlying reports for which the unmasking occurred. It now appears that Flynn’s identity was not masked in the reports about Flynn’s phone conversations with Kislyak.

Stay tuned.

——————

*My attention was drawn to these dates by Susan Simpson’s tweet thread.

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Reader Interactions

68Comments

  1. 1.

    Shalimar

    May 21, 2020 at 9:26 am

    To restate the obvious:  If we’re going to declassify the list of all the people who were alarmed by Flynn’s conversations, we need to declassify the conversations and see what they were so worried about.

  2. 2.

    JPL

    May 21, 2020 at 9:28 am

    Cheryl,  In order to read the entire post, one must hit page 2 to continue.   Page 2 contains the most important information.   Is that what you intended?

  3. 3.

    JPL

    May 21, 2020 at 9:30 am

    I want to know what Flynn was doing in mid-December.   That’s the transcript that might take him down.

  4. 4.

    Cheryl Rofer

    May 21, 2020 at 9:33 am

    @JPL: It’s a long post, and people have complained about long posts on the front page. If you’re interested, I think you can do one click?

  5. 5.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 21, 2020 at 9:36 am

    We already know Flynn has violated Army regs.  He’s still subject to the UCMJ as a retiree.  Court-martial his ass.  Then do this to him.

  6. 6.

    Spanky

    May 21, 2020 at 10:00 am

    Assuming his guilty plea was part of a plea bargain, would dropping the charge mean the bargain is null and void? And ignoring for a moment that some charge may not have a statute of limitations, would said statutes not run out until 2023?

    Be careful what you wish for, I would say.

  7. 7.

    I'll be Frank

    May 21, 2020 at 10:03 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: As a former Army officer, as the son of a former Army officer, as the brother of a former Army officer, as the brother-in-law of a former Army officer, and as the great-nephew of a former Army officer, I wholeheartedly endorse this outcome.

  8. 8.

    WV Blondie

    May 21, 2020 at 10:04 am

    I heard on Morning Blow this morning that Flynn’s name didn’t need to be unmasked – it had not been redacted.

    From the  Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/michael-flynns-name-was-never-masked-in-fbi-document-on-his-communications-with-russian-ambassador/2020/05/20/e94ee050-9a0b-11ea-ac72-3841fcc9b35f_story.html

    So even the premise of this trumped-up (couldn’t resist!) investigation is a lie.

  9. 9.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    May 21, 2020 at 10:08 am

    @Cheryl Rofer: It’s just new and different, and therefore confusing. Not sure I’ve seen that page 2 thing here before…

  10. 10.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    May 21, 2020 at 10:15 am

    This post lays out the Flynn matter very clearly. I was vaguely aware of a lot of this but it was a while ago.

  11. 11.

    dnfree

    May 21, 2020 at 10:23 am

    @Cheryl Rofer: it’s a different format. The usual divided post doesn’t have page numbers, and has a selection to show full post on first page. It also shows the full post with the comments. This one makes you click on a digit 1 or 2 for page number, even in the comments page.

  12. 12.

    Another Scott

    May 21, 2020 at 10:26 am

    Thanks Cheryl.

    It was obvious that he was a kook and bad news way before Donnie appointed him. July 2016 RNC speech:

    (Chanting Lock Her Up!)

    [23:00:02] LT. GEN. MICHAEL FLYNN, RETIRED INTELLIGENCE, U.S. ARMY: That’s right. Lock her up. That’s right. Lock her up. I’m going to tell you what, it’s unbelievable; it’s unbelievable.

    (Chanting Lock Her Up!)

    FLYNN: Yes; I use — I use #neverHillary; that’s what I use. I have called on Hillary Clinton, I have called on Hillary Clinton to drop out of the race because she, she put our nation’s security at extremely high risk with her careless use of a private e-mail server.

    (Applause and Cheering)

    FLYNN: Lock her up. Lock her up.

    {Chanting Lock Her Up!)

    FLYNN: You guys are good. Damn right; exactly right. There’s nothing wrong with that.

    (Chanting Lock Her Up!)

    FLYNN: And you know why; and you know why? You know why we’re saying that? We’re saying that because if I, a guy who knows this business, if I did a tenth, a tenth of what she did, I would be in jail today. So — so, Crooked Hillary Clinton, leave this race now!

    (Applause and Chanting Lock Her Up!)

    FLYNN: She needs to go. Before — before I end — before I end, I will repeat my belief that American exceptionalism is very real. Let — let us not fear what we know to be true. Let us not fear what we know to be true. Instead, we should always remember that our country, our country, was built upon Judeo-Christian values and principles and instead, and instead, let us remember the sacrifices of those who have gone before us. America is unique. America is the greatest country in the history of the world. So –

    (Cheering)

    FLYNN: You’re darn right. So get ready, America; get ready. Now is the time to elect fresh, bold, leadership. (Chanting Trump! Trump!)

    FLYNN: Trump! Trump! Trump! Let’s go. Come on.

    (Chanting Trump! Trump!)

    FLYNN: Get it going.

    (Chanting Trump! Trump!)

    FLYNN: We are just beginning. I promise you, I promise you that Donald Trump, Donald Trump knows that the primary role of the president is to keep us safe.

    (Applause)

    FLYNN: He recognizes — he recognizes the threats we face and is not afraid to call them what they are. Donald Trump’s leadership, decision-making and problem-solving abilities will restore America’s role as the undeniable and unquestioned world leader.

    (Cheering)

    FLYNN: He will lead from the front, not from behind. He will lead with courage, never vacillating when facing our enemies or our competitors; and he knows, he knows that the advantage — Donald Trump knows that the advantage in life, in business, and in wartime goes to the competitor that does not flinch and does not broadcast his game plan.

    (Cheering)

    [23:05:09] FLYNN: He, Donald Trump, will execute the fundamental tenet of peace through strength and there will be, and there will be no apologies for our American exceptionalism or leadership standing around the world.

    (Cheering)

    FLYNN: So once again, once again, wake up, America. You cannot sit this one out. You cannot sit this election out. Get out of your houses and get out there and vote. And instead, elect Donald Trump as the next president of the United States of America. Thank you very much, and god bless America.

    (Cheering and Chanting USA! USA!)

    FLYNN: USA! USA! Keep it going.

    (Chanting USA! USA!)

    (Emphasis added)

    He’s from bizzaro-world. He’s a nutcase who thinks the USA should be a banana republic (locking up political opponents). He had a fair trial, he pleaded guilty, and he needs to be sentenced to jail for his actions.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  13. 13.

    Constance Reader

    May 21, 2020 at 10:26 am

    “Judge Emmet Sullivan plans to open the case to amicus curiae briefs and has appointed a retired federal judge to argue the government’s case.”

    All the other articles I’ve read state that the retired federal judge is appointed to argue against the government’s case, the government would argue it’s own case, would it not?

  14. 14.

    JPL

    May 21, 2020 at 10:35 am

    @Cheryl Rofer:  I agree but was concerned someone might miss it if they didn’t have their coffee yet. Great post

  15. 15.

    Cheryl Rofer

    May 21, 2020 at 10:36 am

    @dnfree: Huh. I just put a page break in, which has simply resulted in “Read more…” in the past. Will check with WaterGirl as to what’s going on.

  16. 16.

    Omnes Omnibus

    May 21, 2020 at 10:38 am

    @Constance Reader:  Here is where we need to separate the interests of the Trump administration and the interests of the US Government. The current Justice Department can be counted on to argue one but not the other.

  17. 17.

    Frankensteinbeck

    May 21, 2020 at 10:39 am

    Trump keeps interactions at arm’s length so

    I’m coming to think that Trump keeps interactions at arm’s length because he’s a fucking moron and Russia wants to make deals with someone who can remember a promise more than five minutes and string two coherent sentences together.  They need a middle-man.  All they need from Trump is to have him hear the word “Russia” and say “Do it!”

  18. 18.

    Old School

    May 21, 2020 at 10:40 am

    @Constance Reader: The retired judge will argue what the government would be doing if the government hadn’t changed its position a few weeks ago.

  19. 19.

    Xentik

    May 21, 2020 at 10:41 am

    @Constance Reader: The point being that the judge doesn’t believe the gov’t is arguing its own case in good faith. The appointed retired judge is supposed to argue what the gov’t would argue if it weren’t transparently  obvious that Barr is corrupting the process.

  20. 20.

    Cheryl Rofer

    May 21, 2020 at 10:42 am

    @Constance Reader: Correct. I’ve fixed the post.

  21. 21.

    EzraRulz

    May 21, 2020 at 10:44 am

    Also, what happened with this Flynn lunacy?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-41947451

  22. 22.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    May 21, 2020 at 10:47 am

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    It is displayed as a two-pager even as an individual post. There is another way to put part of a lengthy front-page post “below the fold” on the front page

    ETA: Apparently a fix is in the works.

  23. 23.

    Amir Khalid

    May 21, 2020 at 11:01 am

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I don’t have a problem with dividing a long post into pages. In fact, I think it helps such a post look less daunting. My problem with a long post with the first few paragraphs on the front page and the rest “below the fold” is that, when one selects the post and sees just how long the whole thing is, it can put one off from reading to the end.

  24. 24.

    cope

    May 21, 2020 at 11:19 am

    Thank you for this post, Cheryl.  One subject, written by one person with embedded links for more info, straightforward and with a point to make, not an endless scroll of boxes of words by people I usually can’t identify using a lexicon with which I am mostly unfamiliar.  Now entering the realm of VERY old, I have trouble following the kinds of posts with too many shiny objects.  I know I am but one reader and probably well out of the blog’s standard demographic ranges but thank you again.

    As for the Flynn saga, it’s all just nauseatingly vile the complete way down.  What nags at me is the lack of any long term accountability Flynn and dozens and dozens of bad actors associated with this administration* are likely to face.  I look back at the rogue’s gallery of criminal players in previous presidencies and can only sigh about how, while they may have paid some short-term debt, almost always ended back up on the playing field.  I mean, I was an adult when a vice president had to resign because of criminal charges and as far as Republicans go, it’s only gotten exponentially worse.  Even if Flynn ends up serving some time in a country club cooler, he won’t emerge in any way contrite or redeemed and likely will enjoy an enhanced celebrity among the degenerates.

  25. 25.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    May 21, 2020 at 11:20 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: Hah. I knew what it was going to be before I clicked on it. Loved that show as a kid. When I saw “Once Upon a Time in Hollywood” I wondered if DiCaprio’s character was based on Chuck Connors.

    Re the main topic: I know they’ve left us a generation of rebuilding to do that will keep us busy, but I hope we investigate and try the hell out of all these traitorous larcenous bastards and don’t fall into the “let’s put it behind us” trap. It’s important for the soul of this country.

  26. 26.

    WaterGirl

    May 21, 2020 at 11:20 am

    @Cheryl Rofer: I think you might want MORE instead of PAGE BREAK.

  27. 27.

    Another Scott

    May 21, 2020 at 11:25 am

    @Spanky: One of the worries I’ve read is that Barr and Donnie are setting a trap for Sullivan (and the rule of law).  Either Sullivan lets Flynn go, or Donnie will pardon him.  A pardon would obviously prevent future federal prosecution (on these charges, and whatever else the pardon covers).  Sullivan needs to keep his wits about him…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  28. 28.

    Gin & Tonic

    May 21, 2020 at 11:32 am

    It’s like these RWNJ’s are willfully obtuse about the “unmasking” concept, or think their cult members are. If you’re “unmasking” Flynn or anyone else, you’re not going to the NSA saying “give me dirt on Flynn” – you don’t know *who* it is (ergo “masked”) – you’re saying “I see a potentially compromising conversation, tell me who it was on our side who was engaged in that.”

  29. 29.

    SFAW

    May 21, 2020 at 11:35 am

    Not specifically Flynn-related, but applicable to “American” traitors helping Putin foment problems for the Euro-US alliance: apparently the Traitor-in-Chief is having the US withdraw from the Open Skies Treaty. Disclaimer: I do not know the practical effects and implications of the US doing so, but I figure it’s yet another instance of the Traitor-in-Chief betraying our country.

  30. 30.

    The Moar You Know

    May 21, 2020 at 11:37 am

    Even if Flynn ends up serving some time in a country club cooler, he won’t emerge in any way contrite or redeemed and likely will enjoy an enhanced celebrity among the degenerates.

    @cope: Agreed.  Flynn 2024.  You know he’ll do it.

    Hey, I was right, played a hunch.  August 6, 2019, someone registered “flynn2024.com”.  Any other info about that domain is locked down but good.

  31. 31.

    JPL

    May 21, 2020 at 11:38 am

    Cheryl, If you are still around, would you please comment your thoughts about trump pulling out of the Open Skies treaty?

  32. 32.

    The Moar You Know

    May 21, 2020 at 11:42 am

    apparently the Traitor-in-Chief is having the US withdraw from the Open Skies Treaty.

    @SFAW: Been in the works for a few years.  Lets both us and Russia develop some new classes of nukes that Open Skies banned.

    That this is a bad idea ought to be self-evident to everyone, but I expect nothing less from President Inject Lysol.

  33. 33.

    Amir Khalid

    May 21, 2020 at 11:45 am

    @Another Scott:

    The DoJ petitioned to drop the charges only after Flynn pleaded guilty and the trial was over. Will Sullivan will do that? Can he? The lawyers among the jackaltariat are agreed that he can’t. I’m convinced that when Sullivan refuses to let Flynn off the hook, Trump will pardon Flynn anyway — just like he pardoned Joe Arpaio.

  34. 34.

    burnspbesq

    May 21, 2020 at 11:48 am

    @Another Scott:

    i’m perfectly happy if Judge Sullivan denies the motion to dismiss and forces Trump to pardon Flynn. Make him own it. Give the Biden campaign the opportunity to tell the voters that Trump thinks it’s just peachy-keen to lie to the FBI about attempts to do favors for Russia.

  35. 35.

    bluehill

    May 21, 2020 at 11:48 am

    @The Moar You Know: Plus Russia doesn’t need to fly over to collect intel. Now they can just call.

  36. 36.

    The Moar You Know

    May 21, 2020 at 11:57 am

    Plus Russia doesn’t need to fly over to collect intel. Now they can just call.

    @bluehill: For now.  That won’t last much longer.

  37. 37.

    bluehill

    May 21, 2020 at 12:04 pm

    @The Moar You Know: It’s easy for me to let my mind wander, so I wonder how deeply Russia has embedded itself into our intelligence systems and other critical networks. Seems like it would be easier as Trump has removed safeguards and installed his own people whose only allegiance seems to be towards him.

  38. 38.

    Cheryl Rofer

    May 21, 2020 at 12:10 pm

    I have removed the page break. ETA: I have consulted with WaterGirl to find where FYWP hides the MORE button.

    Trump is a fool to pull the United States out of the Open Skies Treaty. Every knowledgeable person on the subject agrees.

    I wrote about it a while back.

  39. 39.

    Cheryl Rofer

    May 21, 2020 at 12:13 pm

    ? pic.twitter.com/vJsDN7beNk

    — Grace Kier (@grace_kier1) May 21, 2020

  40. 40.

    Cheryl Rofer

    May 21, 2020 at 12:14 pm

    @SteffanWatkins is a good person to follow on the Open Skies Treaty if you’re on Twitter.

  41. 41.

    debbie

    May 21, 2020 at 12:16 pm

    Cheryl, I am really looking forward to going through this whole thread tonight after work. Ken Rudin, a past NPR political reporter and a man with a really good perspective on politics, was on my local NPR station just now. Wish I could link to the section where he recapped the unmasking “incident.”

    The thought that an administration would not have unmasked the identity of the American citizen making phone calls to Russians is unthinkable, unpatriotic, and would have been anathema to even the GOP before that black man took over.  ?

  42. 42.

    SFAW

    May 21, 2020 at 12:24 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    Give the Biden campaign the opportunity to tell the voters that Trump thinks it’s just peachy-keen to lie to the FBI about attempts to do favors for Russia.

    Not that it matters — and not disagreeing with you — but the Cultists now think it’s super peachy-keen if we do what Russia wants. Because “better a Russkie than a Demon-rat.”

  43. 43.

    SFAW

    May 21, 2020 at 12:27 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Shouldn’t the BF in that GIF be labeled “Trump Admin,” rather than “U.S.”? Mainly because it’s the Russian stooges, not patriotic Americans, who want the OST withdrawal.

  44. 44.

    rikyrah

    May 21, 2020 at 12:28 pm

    These folks getting out?

  45. 45.

    rikyrah

    May 21, 2020 at 12:30 pm

    Yesterday, Trump was asked what he would have done differently to avoid the U.S. accounting for 30% of the world's COVID-19 cases. His response: "Well, nothing."The real answer: By acting earlier, he could have saved tens of thousands of lives. https://t.co/UhnAIz9MVP pic.twitter.com/TkIicOXx8E— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) May 21, 2020

  46. 46.

    eric

    May 21, 2020 at 12:31 pm

    He will not be pardoned before the election because that would make the tape uber-valuable.  My guess is that the tape is as bad for flynn as we think it is.  to pardon him AND have the tape come out before the election would be the best world for Biden and the Dems.  Alas, Trump will wait until after the election then do it.

  47. 47.

    Cheryl Rofer

    May 21, 2020 at 12:32 pm

    Aaannnd! WaterGirl has told me where FYWP has hidden the MORE function, so now the post reads the way I wanted it to.

    I have been looking for the MORE function ever since we moved over to the new site.

  48. 48.

    Cheryl Rofer

    May 21, 2020 at 12:40 pm

    Amy is an expert among experts on treaties

    Several arms control issues and sources of information about treaties are popping up today. If you are curious about the substance of New START's verification regime, without hindsight and revisionism, you can get facts, figures, and footnotes are here. https://t.co/2GDlsPISbg

    — Amy⚾️? (@Woolaf) May 21, 2020

  49. 49.

    cmorenc

    May 21, 2020 at 12:40 pm

    @Constance Reader:

    All the other articles I’ve read state that the retired federal judge is appointed to argue against the government’s case, the government would argue it’s own case, would it not?

    The key takeaway from the fact that the district judge appointed a special counsel (retired judge) to brief the case clearly indicates that the district judge distrusts the Justice Department’s ability to accurately and fairly present the case, even as advocates.

  50. 50.

    Roger Moore

    May 21, 2020 at 12:56 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    It’s like these RWNJ’s are willfully obtuse about the “unmasking” concept, or think their cult members are.

    The goal of talking about unmasking is to make the process sound shadowy and nefarious, no matter how innocent it actually is.  That said, it’s not at all obvious how many Republican leaders are in on the scam* and how many are true believers who have bought into it.  I think Reagan and Bush Sr. understood the whole party was a scam, but I’m not as sure that Bush Jr. wasn’t a true believer.  I think most Republicans who grew up under or since Reagan have actually bought the whole line of BS, but that’s just my personal belief.  I’m not sure how you would actually measure it.

    *For whatever today’s variant of the scam is

  51. 51.

    HumboldtBlue

    May 21, 2020 at 12:58 pm

    Flynn Was Hiding that He Coordinated His Kislyak Call with Mar-A-Lago

  52. 52.

    trollhattan

    May 21, 2020 at 1:02 pm

    @Another Scott: 
    Am as dumbfounded by his RNC performance today as I was back then. He’s a disgrace to the uniform and unfit to be in charge of anything. And yeah, lock him up.

  53. 53.

    Another Scott

    May 21, 2020 at 1:12 pm

    @Amir Khalid: The lawyer tweets I saw (Lawfare, retweeted by Popehat) make it seem that even though he pleaded guilty, twice, that Sullivan doesn’t have any choice but to follow the DOJ recommendation – in normal circumstances.  That doesn’t mean that Sullivan can’t hold him in contempt for lying to the court, multiple times, and/or force the DOJ to get the right guy to sign the request that the charges be dropped and stand before him to argue the position, etc., etc.

    As everything with the law, people can argue both sides…

    FWIW.  IANAL.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  54. 54.

    WaterGirl

    May 21, 2020 at 1:19 pm

    @rikyrah: Growing up, my mom had a phrase that I haven’t heard since:

    Tell the truth and shame the devil.

    Keep telling that truth, Hillary.  Barack, too.

  55. 55.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    May 21, 2020 at 1:29 pm

    One thing about this issue – I hate seeing reporters talking about “unmasking requests for Flynn”.

    This is akin to the passive voice (which is to be avoided…), where the action and actor are hidden. What there are (as I understand it) is “lots of conversations that were troubling, but might have been unimportant, unless it US Person 1 is someone important.”

    The way I’m hearing it, you can never say “please identify this US person in all conversations”. You can only say “this conversation needs context – who is involved?”

    The Republicans are playing with journalistic standards here.

    “Joe Biden made an unmasking request” is simple, and easy. “Joe Biden saw a worrisome conversation concerning subject matter so important, it met the NSA’s standard for unmasking; Flynn was involved” is much wordier, much more complex, and therefore, much less likely to be used. Getting that to happen in text media is pretty easy for that reason.

    And, of course, Trumpfluffers know how to handle it on video. Don’t let the explanation get made, and speak with contempt at how *ridiculous* that shabby cover story is, if someone *does* try to explain while the trumpfluffer in question tries to talk over them. Flood the zone with so much BS, no one knows what’s happening.

  56. 56.

    Omnes Omnibus

    May 21, 2020 at 1:37 pm

    @Another Scott: In normal circumstances is carrying a lot of weight there

  57. 57.

    Another Scott

    May 21, 2020 at 2:04 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Indeed.

    Our courts aren’t designed to handle the situation where the government is corrupt and conspiring with the defendant.

    Grrr….

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  58. 58.

    Duane

    May 21, 2020 at 2:20 pm

    @eric: It’s time for the Democrats to play offense. The evidence of Russian involvement, support for Trumpov, and his willingness to accept it is well-known and damning. The facts are overwhelming, and on our side. Let’s hear that story,

  59. 59.

    Dmbeaster

    May 21, 2020 at 2:50 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: People need to understand this key point regarding Flynn’s motivation for lying – that he was trying to conceal that he was acting on Trump’s instructions when he called Kislyak to urge restraint on sanctions as part of some larger Trump deal with Putin.

    Unfortunately, the initial baked in narrative was the Flynn was freebooting on this, and then allegedly lied about it to Pence.  That allegedly caused Pence to go on national TV to state that no such discussion happened.  Later when it became indisputable that it had happened, Trump baked in the story by allegedly firing Flynn for lying to Pence.  No, he fired Flynn to further conceal that Flynn had acted on his orders, and Pence knowingly lied on TV as part of the concealment.

    Flynn’s guilty plea admits that he coordinated with his aide McFarland, who was at Mar-a-Lago with Trump, about how to respond to Kislyak.  Here is the sentencing statement under oath by Flynn.  https://www.justice.gov/file/1015126/download&ved=2ahUKEwjbi4Lx6MLpAhW1MX0KHff0CskQFjAYegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw1DX_TRYkPpJOdbULtHZoVf Obviously, McFarland was simply forwarding instructions from Flynn’s boss.  Here is the most relevant excerpt.

    3. On or about January 24, 2017, FLYNN agreed to be interviewed by agents from the FBI (“January 24 voluntary interview”). During the interview, FLYNN falsely stated that he
    did not ask Russia’s Ambassador to the United States (“Russian Ambassador”) to refrain from escalating the situation in response to sanctions that the United States had imposed against Russia. FLYNN also falsely stated that he did not remember a follow-up conversation in which the Russian Ambassador stated that Russia had chosen to moderate its response to those sanctions as a result of FLYNN’s request. In truth and in fact, however, FLYNN then and there knew that the following had occurred:
    a. On or about December 28, 2016, then-President Barack Obama signed Executive Order 13757, which was to take effect the following day. The executive order announced sanctions against Russia in response to that government’s actions intended to interfere with the 2016 presidential
    election (“U.S. Sanctions”).
    b. On or about December 28, 2016, the Russian Ambassador contacted FLYNN.
    c. On or about December 29, 2016, FLYNN called a senior official of the Presidential Transition Team (“PTT official”) [McFarland], who was with other senior members of the Presidential Transition Team at the Mar-a-Lago resort in Palm Beach, Florida, to discuss what, if anything, to communicate to the Russian Ambassador about the U.S. Sanctions. On that call, FLYNN andthe PTT official discussed the U.S. Sanctions, including the potential impact of those sanctions on the incoming administration’s foreign policy goals. The PIT official and FLYNN also discussed that the members of the Presidential Transition Team at Mar-a-Lago did not want Russia to escalate the situation.
    d. Immediately after his phone call with the PTT official, FLYNN called the Russian Ambassador and requested that Russia not escalate the situation and only respond to the U.S. Sanctions in a reciprocal manner.
    e. Shortly after his phone call with the Russian Ambassador, FLYNN spoke with the PTT official to report on the substance of his call with the Russian Ambassador, including their discussion of the U.S. Sanctions.

  60. 60.

    HumboldtBlue

    May 21, 2020 at 2:54 pm

    @Dmbeaster:

    Trump baked in the story by allegedly firing Flynn for lying to Pence. No, he fired Flynn to further conceal that Flynn had acted on his orders, and Pence knowingly lied on TV as part of the concealment.

    Yeah, I seem to recall when the first iterations of the story were being reported there were direct ties from Trump to Flynn to Kislyak but there was enough distraction and enough of a smokescreen for Trump and allies to quickly shift the narrative.

    I guess the only solace is that the mainstream news hasn’t followed the RWNJ down the rabbit hole as they did with her emails.

    And thank you for the links, that’s very informative.

  61. 61.

    Dmbeaster

    May 21, 2020 at 3:01 pm

    @Another Scott: I have not seen those tweets, but I have read a lot on this.  Here is a very good analysis of the law governing Sullivan’s options and obligations in response to the DOJ motion.  https://www.lawfareblog.com/judge-sullivan-can-reject-governments-motion-drop-flynns-case

    Money quote:

    “Sullivan does not merely have the authority to review the department’s motion to dismiss. As courts have described it, he has a “duty” to ensure that the dismissal is in “the public interest” and is not “tainted by impropriety” or “bad faith.” And if, after careful review, he finds that the motion is in fact tainted, his duty is equally clear: He must deny it.”

  62. 62.

    trnc

    May 21, 2020 at 4:41 pm

    @WV Blondie:I heard on Morning Blow this morning that Flynn’s name didn’t need to be unmasked – it had not been redacted.

    From the  Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/michael-flynns-name-was-never-masked-in-fbi-document-on-his-communications-with-russian-ambassador/2020/05/20/e94ee050-9a0b-11ea-ac72-3841fcc9b35f_story.html

    So even the premise of this trumped-up (couldn’t resist!) investigation is a lie.

    So true. Of course, the people paid not to understand will ignore this just as easily as they ignore the fact that Obama probably wouldn’t have told DT about Flynn if Obama was trying to conduct a super secret spy operation on DT.

  63. 63.

    Sandia Blanca

    May 21, 2020 at 6:21 pm

    Thank you so much for this discussion, Cheryl–although I’ve read a lot about the Flynn story, I don’t recall hearing about the “civilian nuclear power in the Middle East” scheme. What an outrageous act of treachery! This whole thread has been edifying.

  64. 64.

    Another Scott

    May 21, 2020 at 6:41 pm

    @Dmbeaster: Thanks.

    The lawfare piece I saw earlier was this one (posted when this came up earlier):

    To deny the government’s current motion, in other words, Sullivan would have to distinguish this case from broad and controlling precedent. Particularly given that the government is seeking to dismiss the charge with prejudice (so that no future Justice Department could refile the case), Sullivan could not reasonably conclude that the dismissal is part of any broad pattern designed to harass the defendant. Instead, he would have to read into the Rule 48(a) standard some broader exception for bad faith dismissals. In the alternative, he could perhaps grant the motion but convert it into a motion to dismiss without prejudice. Ruling on a Rule 48(a) motion in 2019 in United States v. Pitts, Sullivan recognized that “there is a strong presumption in favor of a dismissal without prejudice.” In Pitts, in fact, the judge converted a motion to dismiss without prejudice into one with prejudice. But in that case, he did so because the government was seeking a tactical prosecutorial advantage by dismissing without prejudice—which is not the case here. And so, applying the presumption of no prejudice, Sullivan might conceivably convert the government’s motion to one without prejudice. If Sullivan converted the motion, a future Justice Department would be able to refile the case.

    We’ll see how Sullivan goes.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  65. 65.

    Another Scott

    May 21, 2020 at 6:51 pm

    @Dmbeaster: Thanks for that.  It was obvious to me at the time that the “lying to Pence so we had to fire him” thing was comically bad as a plausible excuse.  He was fired because the heat was too close to Donnie and they had to create enough of a distraction so that he wouldn’t be impeached before the end of his first 100 days in office.

    The gaslighting started early, and it hasn’t stopped.

    Grrr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  66. 66.

    Procopius

    May 21, 2020 at 9:17 pm

    Thank you, Cheryl. I, too, was a little surprised when I clicked to read comments and there was a whole additional post, but it wasn’t off-putting. The thing I most appreciate about this post is that it is calm, measured, and avoids the childish names for Trump that too many posters consider de rigueur. My thought is that all of the things listed here are obviously wrong, but they probably are not illegal. My second thought is that there probably was something here that was illegal, so it seems the Mueller team of prosecutors made a tactical choice that looks really bad in hindsight. Much like the prosecutorial overreach in Senator Ted Stevens’ case. They really, really shouldn’t have released the indictment of the Russians, either. That was just grandstanding. Anyway, it’s wonderful to see the case laid out so clearly.

  67. 67.

    BroD

    May 21, 2020 at 10:19 pm

    “He also promulgated Islamophobia”

    Which seems kind of, you know, awkward–given he was doing work for Turkey.

Comments are closed.

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