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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Never Complain, Never Explain

Never Complain, Never Explain

by $8 blue check mistermix|  May 23, 20209:35 pm| 127 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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Yesterday, Joe Biden said a bad, bad thing, by 2015 standards — he said, “If you have a problem deciding whether you’re for me or Trump, you ain’t black.”

After a big dust up, driven by our double-standard mainstream media, egged on by Republicans, Biden walked back that comment.

My immediate reaction to Biden’s remarks was: so what? My considered reaction is still: so what? What Biden said was a poorly phrased and unsubtle reflection of a basic truth: Donald Trump is a racist xenophobe, and if you are in one of the groups that he will scapegoat endlessly to motivate his base, you’re making a big mistake if you even consider voting for him.

As someone who’s part Mexican, I know that my mother and her family are a focus of Trump’s hatred. I have no issue telling any of them roughly what Biden said: if they have a problem deciding between Biden or Trump, they’re not paying attention to the way that Trump treats Mexicans.

It’s become commonly accepted that Trump can barely open his mouth without saying something far worse than what Biden said. If Republicans react in any way to Trump’s remarks other than with shrugged shoulders, they defend what he said, or say he was misunderstood. Still, Republicans will attack Biden for anything that he says that is even remotely outside the 2015 norms of acceptable discourse simply because they get political traction from doing so. Part of that traction comes from Democrats who hear what Biden says, cringe, and don’t feel like defending him because what he said is a blunt expression of a truth better expressed in more subtle language.

Wouldn’t it be better in this specific case if Democrats simply shrugged their shoulders, the way Republicans do about Trump’s endless stupidities? Or, better still, Democrats should say that Biden was just articulating a basic truth that everyone knows, and anyone pretending that they don’t understand what he really meant is playing games.

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Reader Interactions

127Comments

  1. 1.

    Parfigliano

    May 23, 2020 at 9:41 pm

    They should just tell them to fuck off.

  2. 2.

    Sandia Blanca

    May 23, 2020 at 9:42 pm

    Caveat, I am white, so am not qualified to speak on behalf of POC, but what you’ve said sounds right to me. Really tired of hearing the commentariat go on about Biden’s “pratfall” (thanks, Ron Elving), and not a single word about trump praising Henry Ford’s anti-Semitism!!!

  3. 3.

    HumboldtBlue

    May 23, 2020 at 9:44 pm

    I think the reaction from sensible people has been it’s a statement that missed a mark but still rings true. There are plenty of folks trying to take advantage and gin up the controversy and it’s actually rather hilarious to see the likes of Townhall suddenly pretend to know of and be interested in Charlamagne tha God.

    On another note, I believe this starter pack fits at least a few dozen regular commenters here.

  4. 4.

    Chetan Murthy

    May 23, 2020 at 9:44 pm

    I’m 100% with you.  D’felon D’vorce D’spousa isn’t South-Asian: he’s just a plain shit-eating fucker.  Ditto Verma, Pai, and any other shitheads workin’ for that moral pustule in the Oval Office.

  5. 5.

    raven

    May 23, 2020 at 9:45 pm

    @Chetan Murthy: shit eatin DOG fucker please

  6. 6.

    Ruckus

    May 23, 2020 at 9:45 pm

    We’ve been playing the republican game for decades, not wanting to hurt fee fees. And it hasn’t done crap for our side. And of course most of the media plays the game right along with the politicians. It is what it is, we live in a country, hell a world, where racism is front and center. It’s better than when I was a kid, but better is not necessarily good. And we have a completely racist president. We should be pissed, we should be saying it out loud, we should never apologize for not being racist. And that is what happens, we don’t want to make waves so we say the loud parts quietly. And all the while shitforbrains says the quiet parts out loud and makes “policy” based upon racism and grift. It may never stop but it can’t if we attempt to never say what needs to be said.

  7. 7.

    WaterGirl

    May 23, 2020 at 9:48 pm

    I think Biden should have said something like:

    I’m afraid I wasn’t clear.  I didn’t mean that you’re not actually black if you are a black person who supports Donald Trump.  What I meant to say, what I should have said, is that Donald Trump is so racist and so clearly discriminates against people of color or people from – as Donald Trump put it – shithole countries, that I am gobsmacked to find that anyone who is paying attention could support Donald Trump.  Particularly if they are black or hispanic.

  8. 8.

    Yutsano

    May 23, 2020 at 9:55 pm

    Eh. I don’t see any votes moving away from Unca Joe over this.

  9. 9.

    SFAW

    May 23, 2020 at 9:57 pm

    I have to confess, when I first heard about this on the news, I mentally flinched, because it came across as the way the Rethugs wanted it to be heard. Then, after thinking about it for a few seconds, I realized that he was “inartfully” saying what WaterGirl proposed in # 7. [And I hope someone in Biden’s campaign reads that proposed statement, and passes it along to him.]

  10. 10.

    Another Scott

    May 23, 2020 at 9:58 pm

    @Ruckus: +1.

    Meanwhile, …

    DOJ has now represented that it coerced one of the world's most powerful men into falsely pleading guilty to a crime he did not commit. What are the odds that none of BOP's 225,000 federal prisoners was likewise coerced into a false guilty plea?

    — Clark Neily (@ConLawWarrior) May 23, 2020

    Eyes on the prizes.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  11. 11.

    raven

    May 23, 2020 at 9:58 pm

    @Ruckus: I keep thinking these fucks have us painted in a corner. If the shit doesn’t get way worse from this “opening” the asshole will probably win. So, where does that leave us?

  12. 12.

    Cameron

    May 23, 2020 at 9:58 pm

    This was a real statement from “I used to be jiggy with Strom Thurmond” guy?  So there’s that…

  13. 13.

    JPK

    May 23, 2020 at 9:59 pm

    Hear hear, this is totally another non-issue.

  14. 14.

    Jager

    May 23, 2020 at 10:01 pm

    One of my closest friends is a black guy, we’ve been tight for years. We talked about Biden’s comment. Ray said, “Joe is right”.

  15. 15.

    Jeffro

    May 23, 2020 at 10:01 pm

    ‘Shrugged my shoulders’ is exactly what I did, and then went about bashing Republicans (both with social media and donations to D candidates).  Why waste time on anything else?

    My TCNJ dad and I did our weekly Saturday catch-up today and it was quite illuminating.  He had no idea the whole Tara Reade thing got flushed down the media’s collective memory hole this week, nor that we were approaching 100k Covid deaths in the U.S., nor that the U.S. has 5% of the world’s population but 30% of the Covid deaths so far, nor that Covid is 10-20x more deadly than the flu.

    I’ll try to remember to ask for his thoughts about the president*s much-delayed ‘second half’ of his physical, whatever happened to “OBAMAGATE!”, and maybe Uranium One next Saturday.  ‘Til then, keep swinging Dems but don’t worry to much about reaching out to those trumpov supporters…they are in. the. bubble.

  16. 16.

    Jeffro

    May 23, 2020 at 10:02 pm

    @Yutsano: Me either.  Next topic.

  17. 17.

    Yutsano

    May 23, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    @raven: Here’s the real point: Biden was on a radio show that caters to a primarily AA audience. He let that “slip” in that venue. I dare Dolt45 to do the same thing. Again: this only hurt him in the Village. Otherwise it’s not really affecting a single vote.

  18. 18.

    geg6

    May 23, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    I defer to the consensus among African Americans, but I agree with you, mm.  Why play the part the media want us to play?  Hardball this time, mother fuckers.

  19. 19.

    WaterGirl

    May 23, 2020 at 10:06 pm

    @Another Scott: BOP?

  20. 20.

    dfh

    May 23, 2020 at 10:07 pm

    “Wouldn’t it be better in this specific case if Democrats simply shrugged their shoulders, the way Republicans do about Trump’s endless stupidities?”

    YES. It would be better. I’m in the place of not giving a damn what Uncle Joe says (mostly) and literally shrug it off, with more than a few moments of worry. Yes, it’s a double standard, and IOKIYAR is still in full effect. My blinders are on, sad to say. Biden has to beat the Shitgibbon, period.

  21. 21.

    eemom

    May 23, 2020 at 10:10 pm

    All we white people need to shut the fuck up and watch this .

    It is not just about trump. It is that “our” guy needs to be better than a presumptuous, condescending asshole to Black people.

  22. 22.

    Frankensteinbeck

    May 23, 2020 at 10:11 pm

    @raven:

    If the shit doesn’t get way worse from this “opening” the asshole will probably win.

    We had blue waves the whole last three years, polling was already looking so bad for Republicans the Senate was in play before COVID, and now it has become apocalyptic for them.  While things can change, all the ‘probably’s are that Trump gets his ass kicked in November.

  23. 23.

    Barbara

    May 23, 2020 at 10:11 pm

    I look at the 7 day rolling average of CV-19 deaths at the Washington Post and count back from the current day to the same day last week (data is lumpy and pretty clearly reflects timing of reports of deaths).  There were more deaths today than there were last Saturday.  Those deaths are disproportionately African American, Latinx, low income, elderly and sick people.  But sure, no one should dare suggest that any one of these groups might not want to vote for someone who doesn’t care whether they die or not, and in fact is maybe hoping more members of some of these groups will die, especially in key swing states. I mean, so long as he doesn’t actually say it out loud we have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Seriously, what universe do pundits inhabit?

  24. 24.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    May 23, 2020 at 10:11 pm

    @WaterGirl: Bureau of Prisons.

  25. 25.

    zhena gogolia

    May 23, 2020 at 10:13 pm

    @eemom:

    Yeah, great, he’ll be really happy with four more years of Trump.

  26. 26.

    Gvg

    May 23, 2020 at 10:13 pm

    It may be entitled white democrat, but I have basically thought it’s been obvious that all black Americans should of course be voting straight Democrat ticket for at least the last 20 years, not just Trump. I don’t think Bush Jr was racist, but all the rest of them were and he couldn’t get them to even pretend. Rove used racism to get Bush the win in South Carolina. He couldn’t get immigration reform through his own party even though it would have been strategically beneficial to his party. And if you look, a lot of the democrats I think they should be voting for ARE black. They have become a significant part of our party leadership and the workers. So voting democrat is voting for them.

    But it isn’t polite or tactful to say, so Biden and other people have to pretend to be stupid. Our party has had around 90% of the black vote since Clinton and Trump is vicious, stupid and insane. Yeah, Biden or any other Democrat can count on the Black vote, but everyone likes to asked nicely.

  27. 27.

    VeniceRiley

    May 23, 2020 at 10:14 pm

    I saw it and it was very “Old white guy tries to be cool.”  You’re not Katie Porter, Joe.
    But I believe will will, each and every one of us individually, be required to go on every network and cable news show and perform our shrugs in response to a question and also a follow up question.

  28. 28.

    zhena gogolia

    May 23, 2020 at 10:16 pm

    If you’re not offended by Trump, don’t expect us to take you seriously when you claim to be offended by anything else.— Jon Zal (@OfficialJonZal) February 5, 2020

  29. 29.

    WaterGirl

    May 23, 2020 at 10:17 pm

    @eemom: This was in the comments.  I wonder if this is true:

    Marc your opinion doesn’t matter… you are no longer credible when you supported Jill Stein back in 2016 and she was a plant from the Russian Govt… Bye Marc! Your opinion is null

    I googled.  Yes, it’s true.  He was very much against Hillary.

  30. 30.

    eemom

    May 23, 2020 at 10:18 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    You didn’t listen to a fucking word he said, did you?

  31. 31.

    WaterGirl

    May 23, 2020 at 10:18 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: thank you.  I hope this bullshit move bites the current DOJ in the ass.

  32. 32.

    zhena gogolia

    May 23, 2020 at 10:19 pm

    @eemom:

    Yes, I did.

  33. 33.

    eemom

    May 23, 2020 at 10:19 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    See above. There is not one fucking thing in that piece to which 2016 is relevant.

    You people blow my mind.

  34. 34.

    Barbara

    May 23, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Yeah, this exactly.  Anyone who isn’t daily reminding themselves that President Pussy Grabber is the kind of person who said out loud that he wished we had more immigrants from nice countries like Norway instead of shit hole countries like Haiti is just chasing a news cycle like a hamster on a wheel and should strive to include some context for their tut tutting.

  35. 35.

    eemom

    May 23, 2020 at 10:22 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    Then I wonder how you managed to miss it when he said trump is not an option. Staying home is not an option. Biden needs to be fucking better than this.

  36. 36.

    zhena gogolia

    May 23, 2020 at 10:23 pm

    @eemom:

    He lists his political party as “Green.” So I am not really interested in his opinion.

    The Russians are going to keep lobbing crap at Biden every single day. I don’t have to pay attention to it.

  37. 37.

    WaterGirl

    May 23, 2020 at 10:23 pm

    @eemom: See what above?

    I watched the video and listened to what he said.  But I don’t find someone who promoted Jill Stein over Clinton in 2016 to be someone I am going to look to for advice.  I’d like to know if the person who was interviewing Joe took offense at what Joe said.

    I do agree that he was very clear that Biden is way better than Trump.

    I also remember that in December 2017 while I was canvassing in Iowa, Barack Obama said something about farmers in the back of rooms chewing on a piece of hay and for a few days people were wondering whether having offended farmers was going to cost Barack the primary in Iowa.

    Let’s not forget when Barack talked about clinging to guns and religion.  Yeah Biden got too comfortable and was displaying a bit of bravado.  Hopefully he learned from it.

    But that doesn’t mean I think he should have walked back what he said.  It’s not time to slit our wrists, and he can do better next time.

  38. 38.

    zhena gogolia

    May 23, 2020 at 10:24 pm

    @eemom:

    Biden is not going to change. But he’s the Democratic candidate. I’m not going to participate in tearing him down. Not for one second.

  39. 39.

    eemom

    May 23, 2020 at 10:24 pm

    I’m out. Have a good evening, sheep.

  40. 40.

    zhena gogolia

    May 23, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    @eemom:

    BAAAAA!

    So not being a sheep means participating in re-electing Trump? Because if we don’t support Biden, that’s what we’re doing.

  41. 41.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    May 23, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    @VeniceRiley:

    I saw it and it was very “Old white guy tries to be cool.”

    I had the same reaction. He’s incredibly thin-skinned, which he should be working on, not good at “non-traditional media” (I thought CtG came across as a dick, myself, but Biden lost whatever sympathy that might have gotten him) and I think he thought he was speaking in the host’s language. After almost a half-century in politics, he should be better at this

  42. 42.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    May 23, 2020 at 10:26 pm

    @eemom: You’re an odd duck.

  43. 43.

    zhena gogolia

    May 23, 2020 at 10:27 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    And Hillary is so over-prepared and so stiff. And why did she have to have that private e-mail server?

  44. 44.

    Jinchi

    May 23, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    @Yutsano: Biden was on a radio show that caters to a primarily AA audience. He let that “slip” in that venue.

    I haven’t heard much about this controversy, but the obvious question is, what did the AA audience of that show have to say about his comments? Presumably they heard it live and in context.

  45. 45.

    SFAW

    May 23, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    @eemom:

    I did, and I’m not as impressed as you obviously were. He spouted, among other things, the same old “Dems need to prove they deserve my/our vote(s)” bullshit that we’ve been hearing for years from the pretend-Dems who voted for Trump, and the Bern-or-Busters.

  46. 46.

    Ruckus

    May 23, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    @raven:

    Personally I don’t think shitforbrains has any chance of winning. Yes his support is hardened in all their hate but the only real difference was that they are more open about it, not that they have a lot more support.

    To answer your question, if we lose in November I have no idea, but I imagine it will not be in any way good for the health of the country.  There is so much hate and racism, all of which shitforbrains has been stoking with his every breath. On the other hand a lot of people are right now starting their class on virus give a shit. And probably to their amazement they are going to find out that a virus does not have one political concept in it’s box of tricks. It kills indiscriminately, painfully and without regard to how much racism and stupidity you display. And they display plenty. I’m betting that a large amount of shitforbrains supporters are going to find out exactly how badly wrong they are, although most of them won’t understand the lesson.

  47. 47.

    zhena gogolia

    May 23, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    I’m so old I can remember when everyone was outraged about something Kamala Harris said on this same stupid program.

  48. 48.

    The Thin Black Duke

    May 23, 2020 at 10:29 pm

    @eemom: I don’t give a fuck what he said. I guess that makes me a black sheep, huh?

  49. 49.

    eemom

    May 23, 2020 at 10:31 pm

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    Cool. But white people need to shut the fuck up, IMVWO.

  50. 50.

    The Thin Black Duke

    May 23, 2020 at 10:32 pm

    @eemom: White people need to vote for Biden. Everything else is irrelevant.

  51. 51.

    SFAW

    May 23, 2020 at 10:32 pm

    @eemom:

    I’m out. Have a good evening, sheep.

    Wow, not even 15 minutes.

  52. 52.

    zhena gogolia

    May 23, 2020 at 10:33 pm

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    BINGO

  53. 53.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    May 23, 2020 at 10:33 pm

    @zhena gogolia: We’re Democrats, we get outraged and lose; Republicans say “Fuck You” and win.

  54. 54.

    khead

    May 23, 2020 at 10:33 pm

    Repeating from the original thread on this subject:

    Biden – or if it had been any other Dem nominee – would have to threaten my cats to lose me at this point. I mean, I’m not the one who set the bar so fucking low in 2016.

  55. 55.

    Chyron HR

    May 23, 2020 at 10:33 pm

    Oh boy it’s the weekly “eemom is off their meds” thread.

  56. 56.

    zhena gogolia

    May 23, 2020 at 10:35 pm

    Joe Biden could cut a video that was nothing but him stepping on garden rakes and hitting himself in the face with the handles, and I’d still crawl through a trench of COVID-19-soaked broken glass to vote for him over Trump.— Jon Zal (@OfficialJonZal) May 22, 2020

  57. 57.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    May 23, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    @khead: Yup,  there were a couple of primary candidates I loved, a couple I actively dislike and a whole bunch in between– I got a fund-raising email from Eric Swalwell today and and it took me a couple of beats to remember who he was, and there was that bald guy Elizabeth Warren handed his own entrails to, and I’d have voted for any single one of them, and probably donated too.

  58. 58.

    Anya

    May 23, 2020 at 10:42 pm

    @Jager: Being right is irrelevant, it was not his place to say it. But also, white people getting outraged over this need to sit this one out, specially, racist republicans.

  59. 59.

    Brachiator

    May 23, 2020 at 10:46 pm

    Yesterday, Joe Biden said a bad, bad thing, by 2015 standards — he said, “If you have a problem deciding whether you’re for me or Trump, you ain’t black.”

    I just can’t get worked up over this. Biden spoke the truth. And even if some people want to say that only black people can talk about blackness, Biden spoke the truth. Republicans can pretend that Trump is not a racist, but Biden spoke the truth.

    Meanwhile, the Corona Virus meter is at 97,000 deaths in the US. We may pass 100,000 sometime after Memorial Day. Maybe sooner.

    The other thing that Biden can honestly say, with a nod to the Terminator, is “Vote for me if you want to live.”

    ETA: Being right is irrelevant, it was not his place to say it.

    Biden did not speak for black people. He spoke with black people.

  60. 60.

    WaterGirl

    May 23, 2020 at 10:47 pm

    @The Thin Black Duke: I nominated that for a rotating tag.

  61. 61.

    O. Felix Culpa

    May 23, 2020 at 10:49 pm

    @Jager: The black folks I follow on fb said the same: Joe’s right. And they found his comment hilarious.

    I’m so very tired of the faux outrage directed at Democrats.

  62. 62.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    May 23, 2020 at 10:50 pm

    I was thinking today about my never-trump Republican aunt– her biggest issue is “life”, as she puts it. I think she’ll vote for Biden. And she lives in Florida.

  63. 63.

    O. Felix Culpa

    May 23, 2020 at 10:51 pm

    @eemom: Except that the black people I know thought he was right…and funny. So I’m taking their cue.

  64. 64.

    opiejeanne

    May 23, 2020 at 10:55 pm

    @Ruckus: My daughter who ran the raclette stands at farmers’ markets in Seattle for several years, closed it down nearly a year ago last July.

    Today she got a request to cater a graduation party for 50 guests.

    WTF are people thinking here? The state is not open yet, how could she possibly keep the guests and her employees and herself safe?

  65. 65.

    GregMulka

    May 23, 2020 at 10:57 pm

    I, as a standard issue white dude, think Michael Harriot nailed it here.

  66. 66.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    May 23, 2020 at 10:57 pm

    New Biden ad, made with video taken this morning:

    Joe Biden @JoeBiden
    Nearly 100,000 lives have been lost, and tens of millions are out of work.
    Meanwhile, the president spent his day golfing.

  67. 67.

    James E Powell

    May 23, 2020 at 10:58 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    Biden is not going to change. But he’s the Democratic candidate. I’m not going to participate in tearing him down. Not for one second.

    I’m favor of unswerving aggressive defense of Biden. I consider it one of the keys to a big Democratic victory.

  68. 68.

    E

    May 23, 2020 at 11:00 pm

    I’ve said virtually the same thing to members of my family who are Jewish. A couple of them support Trump. I’ve said to them Point Blank “you actually consider yourself Jewish and you’re voting for a guy who described a bunch of people wearing  swastikas and chanting Jews will not replace us as very fine people. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?” I don’t see anything wrong with the comment he made.

  69. 69.

    Beautifulplumage

    May 23, 2020 at 11:04 pm

    @opiejeanne: I work for a tent rental company. We recently got a call from a client for a backyard wedding tent. They are planning on 50 people and they requested a very oversize tent by “normal” standards for social distancing concerns. The kicker is that they first tried another company whose salesperson kept trying to talk them into a smaller tent! In Seattle!

     

    ETA: the event is later this year in hopes that we can be at the 50 person level of relaxing shelter-in-place

  70. 70.

    opiejeanne

    May 23, 2020 at 11:14 pm

    @Beautifulplumage: I don’t know where Washington is right now. I know that Inslee extended the restrictions to May 31, but I know that he was considering opening certain places, like parks and hiking paths. I’ve lost track of what the rules are.

    We are still masking if we go out somewhere, and staying home as much as possible.

  71. 71.

    JaySinWA

    May 23, 2020 at 11:15 pm

    @Ruckus:It kills indiscriminately,

    Evidence says no, it kills black people in greater percentages than whites. Some whites see that as fine, no worries for me and mine then. In the end they may be wrong as the virus engulfs us, but in the short run whites are getting less of the pain than others.

  72. 72.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    May 23, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    If you want, steal a bit from the GOP. As soon as someone complains about what Biden said, ask “what about…” a half dozen or so things Trump said. Don’t give them the reaction they want, and by golly, don’t try to explain – anyone who can learn from an explanation has figured the story out for themselves.

    e.g.:”Biden said people who aren’t sure whether to support him, or Trump, aren’t really black!”

    “What about Trump saying John Lewis’ district was in horrible shape, falling apart, and crime-infested, just because Lewis is black?”

  73. 73.

    JaySinWA

    May 23, 2020 at 11:19 pm

    @opiejeanne: Here’s the current WA status, a number of counties to the east and far west are going into stage 2 restrictions.

    https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/inslee-statement-progression-safe-start-phases

    ETA 50 or more people gatherings requires stage 3.  Warning PDF :https://www.governor.wa.gov/sites/default/files/SafeStartWA_4May20_1pm.pdf?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

  74. 74.

    Felanius Kootea

    May 23, 2020 at 11:22 pm

    @eemom: I prefer Michael Herriott’s take.  Also the comment (forgot who made it now) about black people knowing the difference between an “awkward ally” and a “virulent racist.”

    Biden definitely needs to do better, but I’m not going to waste my time on his gaffe while we have Trump in the White House.

  75. 75.

    SFAW

    May 23, 2020 at 11:24 pm

    @LongHairedWeirdo:

    “or Trump, aren’t really black!”

    Except I don’t think he used the word “really.” Had Biden used the word “really.” it would imply that Biden is saying that he (by extension) can determine who is “black.” Without the “really,” it’s much more like what WaterGirl wrote in # 7. [Yes, I realize you’re using a RWMFs “voice,” not your own, in that sentence.]

  76. 76.

    frosty

    May 23, 2020 at 11:24 pm

    @LongHairedWeirdo:

    “What about Trump saying John Lewis’ district was in horrible shape, falling apart, and crime-infested, just because Lewis is black?”

    I believe the actual quote was “vermin-infested”. He didn’t master the original German, but he was close enough.

  77. 77.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    May 23, 2020 at 11:25 pm

    @Parfigliano:

    This

  78. 78.

    Beautifulplumage

    May 23, 2020 at 11:26 pm

    @opiejeanne: JaySinWA has the state info. In King County masks are recommended and stores can require. The majority here wear them from my observations.

  79. 79.

    opiejeanne

    May 23, 2020 at 11:26 pm

    @JaySinWA: Thanks. We live in King County and are not even ready for stage 2

     

    ETA: Not everyone is observing proper distancing or wearing a mask. It’s a bit shocking to us.

  80. 80.

    Brachiator

    May 23, 2020 at 11:30 pm

    @JaySinWA:

    Evidence says no, it kills black people in greater percentages than whites.

    More complicated than this, since we are talking about a global pandemic. And even in the US, this is more complicated.

    Some whites see that as fine, no worries for me and mine then.

    Yep, but then again, these are people who don’t understand the disease, don’t understand risk, and cheer a president who peddles snake oil malaria pills and bleach as possible cures.

  81. 81.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    May 23, 2020 at 11:32 pm

    @JaySinWA:

    I think that’s mostly because non-whites are more likely to work in “essential” positions and many white people don’t

  82. 82.

    JaySinWA

    May 23, 2020 at 11:32 pm

    @opiejeanne: We are in King county as well. The “50 or more” should have been “50 or fewer”.  The phase 2 counties should be interesting as will our reactions if they regress.

  83. 83.

    Shalimar

    May 23, 2020 at 11:35 pm

    @eemom: You’re failing at shutting the fuck up.

  84. 84.

    Beautifulplumage

    May 23, 2020 at 11:36 pm

    @opiejeanne: my observation is for Kent/Renton. Went to Enumclaw last Sat & noted far fewer masks driving through town, but only visited family & got gas. Not the best data!

  85. 85.

    JaySinWA

    May 23, 2020 at 11:37 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Agree, I was thinking about US statistics.

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Yes the reasons why are complicated, but I was addressing the idea that white people are going to see it as indiscriminate, at least until it has a significant impact on “our people” and not “those people”

  86. 86.

    Darkrose

    May 23, 2020 at 11:37 pm

    Speaking as always for one and only one black person–namely, myself–here’s my take:

    1. Should Biden have said that? Nope.

    2. Was Biden wrong? Nope, not at all.

    3. Do I give a fuck? Nope, for thanks to the president* my field of fucks is completely barren, and the only thing I care about is getting the tangerine bawbag out of office. Joe Biden saying something true but tactless means nothing when nearly 100,000 of our fellow citizens have died in part because of the orange shitgibbon’s incompetence and narcissism. The rest of this is just distractions.

  87. 87.

    gwangung

    May 23, 2020 at 11:38 pm

    @JaySinWA: Gonna bet most Republicans aren’t gonna wanna understand the term “regress.”

  88. 88.

    Emma from FL

    May 23, 2020 at 11:41 pm

    @Darkrose: May I sit 6ft away from you?

  89. 89.

    JaySinWA

    May 23, 2020 at 11:43 pm

    @Beautifulplumage:

     

    @opiejeanne:

    Just north of Seattle here, I took a drive to keep the battery charged yesterday and scouted the Home Depot / Costco lot. Mostly masked people at HD, a vast improvement over my last observation, but it looked like a lot of crowding outside and what I could see inside. Costco had a fair number outside and not as well spaced as they were in the past. Summer looks like it may be a bummer.

  90. 90.

    Sally

    May 23, 2020 at 11:46 pm

    @WaterGirl: Excellent. I would have condensed to: if you’re voting for trump, you’re not paying attention.

  91. 91.

    Callisto

    May 23, 2020 at 11:47 pm

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    White people need to vote for Biden. Everything else is irrelevant

    Yes. No offense, white people, but we speak for ourselves.

  92. 92.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    May 23, 2020 at 11:47 pm

    @Brachiator:

    malaria pills and bleach as possible cures

    Funny you should mention that. There was a large global study done that has shown that hydroxychloroquine isn’t effective in COVID-19 patients. I hope Trump is freaking out atm.

    I have an aunt and an uncle that are RWNJ evangelicals and their faith in Trump is unshakable. When confronted with the “injecting disinfectant” comment, my aunt denied he even said it! She claims their doing better than they ever have under Trump, having sold their mineral rights or whatever to a shale drilling company

    It’s sad that’s what it comes down to. I can’t wait for the checks to stop coming in because the domestic shale oil industry has been demolished

  93. 93.

    JaySinWA

    May 23, 2020 at 11:48 pm

    @gwangung: Especially since most of  the stage 2 counties are largely Republican majorities. OTOH I don’t have a lot of confidence that the rest of us are going to hold fast either. Quarantine fatigue may do us in.

  94. 94.

    Jackie

    May 23, 2020 at 11:51 pm

    @JaySinWA: I’m in Benton County (southeastern WA) and our positives and deaths are still ticking up, so we’re in the gray zone, as well. Unfortunately, it’s Trump country and there’s a lot of rebellion about staying at home and mask wearing.

  95. 95.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    May 23, 2020 at 11:55 pm

    @Beautifulplumage:

    Went to Enumclaw last Sat

    Guy I knew in grad school was from “The Claw”.

  96. 96.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    May 23, 2020 at 11:57 pm

    @SFAW:

    I know that’s the best part. eemom went GBCW and then almost immediately came back! It makes her look like a fool

  97. 97.

    different-church-lady

    May 24, 2020 at 12:01 am

    We will always be fighting uphill against our own standards: Democrats have compunction and shame. Republicans have abandoned both. It means we’ll always be apologizing for things that are far less than what Republicans will double down on.

  98. 98.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    May 24, 2020 at 12:01 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Large quantities of cheep box wine will do that to ya.

  99. 99.

    debbie

    May 24, 2020 at 12:02 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    I know more than a few Democrats who are very loudly saying, “Fuck You!”

  100. 100.

    debbie

    May 24, 2020 at 12:04 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I don’t remember who pointed it out earlier, but he’s got a horrible swing.

  101. 101.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    May 24, 2020 at 12:06 am

    @debbie: Well, Katie Porter has a potty mouth.  //

  102. 102.

    debbie

    May 24, 2020 at 12:07 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Indeed. We need more like her.

  103. 103.

    Mary G

    May 24, 2020 at 12:09 am

    I’ve missed ornery eemom. Feel like normal is returning.

  104. 104.

    JaySinWA

    May 24, 2020 at 12:10 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: i just poured out my first glass of cheap box wine, thank you very much. I may end up resembling that remark.

  105. 105.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    May 24, 2020 at 12:12 am

    @JaySinWA: Just be careful, you saw what could happen earlier.

  106. 106.

    ziggy

    May 24, 2020 at 12:13 am

    @opiejeanne: WA is doing really well right now. There was a wierd blip in deaths, but I think it was from data that was collected earlier and finally entered. I follow the stats closely. Most of the new cases lately seem to be down in Yakima County, probably due to the chicken processing plant. At UW virology, which processes a lot of the tests in the area, the positivity rate is now down to 2.9% which is very good. Statewide is about 6%.

    Most of the counties have very few cases, King, Snohomish, Pierce and Yakima are the ones that will be in Stage one a while longer. Thurston county (mine) is doing great–no new cases at all for 6 days! First time that has happened since they started testing. Positivity rate here is only 1.7%. So we will be moving to stage two soon. Mask wearing is hit or miss here, I choose my stores and move quickly.

  107. 107.

    burnspbesq

    May 24, 2020 at 12:14 am

    @eemom:

    why are you here, Elaine? We were all perfectly happy without you when you were on hiatus.

  108. 108.

    JaySinWA

    May 24, 2020 at 12:19 am

    @Jackie: I suspect a lot of “everyone who will die was going to die anyway so hurry up and get it over with” thinking is going to become more mainstream. Tautologically correct up to the hurry up part, we are all going to die eventually, but pretty starkly inhumane. The “so I don’t have to be inconvenienced for you” subtext may remain less explicit, or not.

  109. 109.

    JaySinWA

    May 24, 2020 at 12:23 am

    @burnspbesq: 
    Apparently@Mary G:  disagrees.

  110. 110.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    May 24, 2020 at 12:25 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    ?

  111. 111.

    Brachiator

    May 24, 2020 at 12:28 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    RE malaria pills and bleach as possible cures.

    Funny you should mention that. There was a large global study done that has shown that hydroxychloroquine isn’t effective in COVID-19 patients. I hope Trump is freaking out atm.

    Trump was always making this up, but he probably believes his own bullshit. But the unforgivable thing is that his bullshit induces other people to risk their lives.

    I have an aunt and an uncle that are RWNJ evangelicals and their faith in Trump is unshakable. When confronted with the “injecting disinfectant” comment, my aunt denied he even said it! She claims their doing better than they ever have under Trump, having sold their mineral rights or whatever to a shale drilling company

    I hear you. His base has faith in Trump and will never abandon him. It’s sad. He doesn’t deserve such loyalty, and will never reciprocate it. I also understand that some people have prospered under Trump. He throws them pennies while throwing dollars at his plutocrat buddies.

    Of course, Trump has nothing for those who have died because of his failure to lead.

  112. 112.

    Jackie

    May 24, 2020 at 12:41 am

    @ziggy: Add Benton and Franklin Counties, too.?

  113. 113.

    PJ

    May 24, 2020 at 12:42 am

    @eemom: So why do you keep talking about it?  Black people are plenty capable of making up their minds about Biden, and have been doing it  – and voting for him – for almost 50 years.

  114. 114.

    PJ

    May 24, 2020 at 12:44 am

    @The Thin Black Duke: This is the salient point.  It’s not people of color who are trying to tear Biden down.

  115. 115.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    May 24, 2020 at 12:54 am

    @Brachiator:

    Trump was always making this up, but he probably believes his own bullshit. But the unforgivable thing is that his bullshit induces other people to risk their lives.

    Likely. Still, I wish he actually was taking it so he’d suffer some physical consequences

    I hear you. His base has faith in Trump and will never abandon him. It’s sad. He doesn’t deserve such loyalty, and will never reciprocate it. I also understand that some people have prospered under Trump. He throws them pennies while throwing dollars at his plutocrat buddies.

    Of course, Trump has nothing for those who have died because of his failure to lead.

    All true. I would hope they would abandon him if Trump personally fucked them over or treated them like shit

  116. 116.

    Yutsano

    May 24, 2020 at 12:59 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):  He has fucked them over. Remember all the soybean farmers who took a bath because of the Chinese tariffs? Almost all of them still stood behind Dolt45. Why? Because their tribe mattered more than even their livelihoods. There are reasons why we call it a cult. It has sucked people who should know better into toxic thinking patterns.

  117. 117.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    May 24, 2020 at 1:15 am

    @Yutsano:

    I get that. I’m talking about in much more personal ways. No room for ambiguity. Like getting screamed at by Trump, or having family members killed in front of them on his orders

  118. 118.

    Matt McIrvin

    May 24, 2020 at 1:49 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):  It’ll be interesting to see what happens in the Republican Party when Trump either loses power or dies. Lots of people who know him personally well enough to despise him, but are clinging to him out of fear? Will there be a dam break of sorts? We’ll see.

  119. 119.

    Ruckus

    May 24, 2020 at 2:42 am

    @JaySinWA:

    Not sure there is any thing directly connected with the genetics and why it’s more deadly to blacks, and I’m for sure not saying there isn’t. What I’m saying is that being black may in fact be a contributing factor, but it also seems very deadly to the elderly or anyone with any lung issues or heart issues, like weakened muscles from a heart attack. There is a lot no one knows about this virus yet.

    But your point is valid, blacks are dying at a higher percentage than whites.

  120. 120.

    Morzer

    May 24, 2020 at 3:01 am

    @Chyron HR: Could be worse. It used to be a daily thread.

  121. 121.

    SFAW

    May 24, 2020 at 6:35 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    I get that. I’m talking about in much more personal ways. No room for ambiguity. Like getting screamed at by Trump, or having family members killed in front of them on his orders

    It will be some variation of “Thank you, sir! May I please have another?”

    I admire your optimism, but nothing we’ve seen to date would indicate that the cultists would ever abandon him. At least, not while they’re still alive.

  122. 122.

    evodevo

    May 24, 2020 at 7:15 am

    @JaySinWA: Just like with the “war on drugs” – somehow crack in black communities was a failure of morals or will or something, but the opioid epidemic in white communities is a national crisis (or was, before covid showed up)

  123. 123.

    evodevo

    May 24, 2020 at 7:48 am

    @Ruckus: Well, that’s easy to answer – co-morbidities, less access to adequate healthcare, and the fact that a LOT of POC have jobs that they HAVE to go to or their family starves, in places where the employer doesn’t care about social distancing, safety or any other concerns, or you’re self-employed and your clients don’t care.  If you have a middle class job where you can work from home, AND you can afford wifi access, hey! it’s all good.  A LOT of working class POC and white people I know don’t and are screwed.  You catch it at work or church, your underlying health/lifestyle is bad, you are out of luck.

  124. 124.

    WaterGirl

    May 24, 2020 at 9:10 am

    For what it’s worth, I’m a big fan of mocking a commenter to their face, when warranted.  But mocking a commenter behind their back, not a big fan.

    Just one person’s opinion.

  125. 125.

    SFAW

    May 24, 2020 at 10:59 am

    @WaterGirl:

    But mocking a commenter behind their back, not a big fan.

    Not disagreeing, but I’m trying to figure out how one would do that. Via e-mail?

  126. 126.

    WaterGirl

    May 24, 2020 at 11:35 am

    @SFAW: I’m not sure what you’re asking, so I’ll explain where I was coming from.

    eemom was long gone but people were still mocking or trashing her, so it just felt icky to me.  Maybe it’s just me, but at least if the person is still in the thread, they can explain themselves, or defend themselves, or just issue a hearty “fuck you all”.

    On the other hand, if you’re a troll, all bets are off, even in my book.  Like I said, just one person’s opinion.

  127. 127.

    SFAW

    May 24, 2020 at 2:09 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    I assumed that she had been here all along — i.e., didn’t know that she was on hiatus (or whatever) — so figured any comments were made to her “face” (so to speak).

    Thanks for the explanation

    ETA: And my “e-mail” comment was intended to convey that Commenter A might trash Commenter B in an e-mail to Commenter C. Said (hypothetical) e-mail was the only way I could conceive of something being “behind the back” of the commenter being trashed. [Not that it makes sense, but that was the best I could come up with.]

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