Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

No one could have predicted…

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

The revolution will be supervised.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Republicans in disarray!

Republicans do not pay their debts.

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

You are here: Home / Music / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Turn the World Around

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Turn the World Around

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Found this while looking for an entirely different Belafonte clip, on a much less uplifting topic!

About yesterday’s Early Morning Open Thread…

Speaking of serendipity, somehow it’s not surprising that the earliest roots of human speech might’ve been what we politely term ‘cat-calling’:

… and that’s why it’s gonna be hard for some primates to move towards low-touch social interaction…

Reader Interactions

158Comments

  2. 2.

    debbie

    @Betty Cracker:

    Yep. Though I think the loss of eye contact (thanks, social media and phone screens) will have a greater impact than losing social touch.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    Earlier this month, he briefed top Biden campaign officials on two battleground surveys conducted by his firm. Accompanied by a slide presentation that was obtained by POLITICO, Greenberg addressed the question hanging over Biden and his inner circle: Which vice presidential candidate will help the most in November?

    The conclusion was blunt: “Senator Warren is the obvious solution.”
    Biden’s biggest problem, Greenberg said, is that the Democratic Party has not unified behind him. In fact, Biden is now behind where Clinton was with Bernie Sanders voters in 2016, with more than 20 percent of the democratic socialist’s backers saying they would not vote for him, even as 87 percent of them pledge to vote for a Democrat for Congress. At a similar point in the 2016 cycle, roughly 15 percent of Sanders voters said they wouldn’t vote for Hillary and Greenberg’s own polling through Democracy Corps around Election Day found the same.

    What a cancer. Thankfully, Joe is leading without their support..

  6. 6.

    Baud

    Karine Jean-Pierre, Biden’s new senior advisor, is ready for November

     

    In an exclusive interview with theGrio, Jean-Pierre talks Biden’s chances of picking a Black woman as his VP and running an election amid coronavirus

     

     

  8. 8.

    Baud

    The executive order would require the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to propose and clarify regulations under Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, a federal law largely exempting online platforms from legal liability for the material their users post. Such changes could expose tech companies to more lawsuits.

     

    The order asks the FCC to examine whether actions related to the editing of content by social media companies should potentially lead to the platform forfeiting its protections under section 230.

    FCC lawyers going to get some billables.

  9. 9.

    OzarkHillbilly

    NYT: The Bird Watcher, That Incident and His Feelings on the Woman’s Fate

    Christian Cooper is already back birding at Central Park. “I’m not excusing the racism,” he said. “But I don’t know if her life needed to be torn apart.”
    ………………………………
    “Any of us can make — not necessarily a racist mistake, but a mistake,” Mr. Cooper said, “And to get that kind of tidal wave in such a compressed period of time, it’s got to hurt. It’s got to hurt.”

    A gray catbird darted around his hiking boots.

    “I’m not excusing the racism,” he said. “But I don’t know if her life needed to be torn apart.”

    He opened his mouth to speak further and then stopped himself. He had been about to say the phrase, “that poor woman,” he later acknowledged, but he could not bring himself to complete the thought.

    “She went racial. There are certain dark societal impulses that she, as a white woman facing in a conflict with a black man, that she thought she could marshal to her advantage,” he said.

    “I don’t know if it was a conscious thing or not,” he added. “But she did it, and she went there.”
    …………………………………..
    Then he resumed. “If we are going to make progress, we’ve got to address these things, and if this painful process is going to help us address this — there’s the yellow warbler!” Mr. Cooper said, cutting himself off to peer around with his binoculars.

    At length, he turned his eyes away from the tops of the London plane trees and continued where he had left off:

    “If this painful process — oh, a Baltimore oriole just flew across!— helps to correct, or takes us a step further toward addressing the underlying racial, horrible assumptions that we African-Americans have to deal with, and have dealt with for centuries, that this woman tapped into, then it’s worth it,” he said, setting his binoculars down on his chest.

    “Sadly, it has to come at her expense,” he added.

  14. 14.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Man acquitted of entering a home with a weapon after successful sex fantasy defence

    Two men hired to carry out a stranger’s sexual fantasy of being tied up while clad in his underpants went to the wrong rural NSW address with machetes, but politely left after realising their mistake.

    One of the Sydney men, Terrence Leroy, has now been found not guilty in the NSW district court of entering the home in July 2019 intending to intimidate while armed with an offensive weapon.
    …………………………
    “They carried the machetes either as a prop or something to use in that fantasy,” the judge said in his published reasons for the acquittal earlier this month.

    “The fantasy was unscripted and there was discretion as to how it would be carried out.”

    According to statements tendered at the brief judge-alone trial, a man living in western NSW near Griffith wanted to be tied up and have a broom handle rubbed around his underwear.

    “He was willing to pay $5,000 if it was ‘really good’,” the judge said.

    The would-be client had a “history and proclivity for engaging the services of people”, a police officer said.

    After making arrangements with a man on Facebook for people to engage in the role play, he sent his address, which he later updated after moving to another home.

    But on 14 July, a resident living in the same street as the first address noticed some light coming from his lounge room when he got up to go to the toilet.

    Assuming it was a friend who came daily to make a coffee, he yelled out “Bugger off, it’s too early”.

    After hearing a voice ask if his name was that of the intended client, the resident turned on his bedside light, took off his sleep apnoea mask, and saw two men standing next to his bed.

    They carried machetes pointed down towards the ground.

    They started to leave after he told them his name – which was not that of the intended client.

    One man apologised, saying “Sorry mate”, and shook the resident’s hand, while the other said “Bye” before they drove off. The resident then contacted the police.

    Straight from a Ben Stiller movie.

  15. 15.

    debbie

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I actually agree with him. There have to be serious consequences, but losing a job in a time of double-digit unemployment is pretty much the end of her working life.

  18. 18.

    Betty Cracker

    @OzarkHillbilly: As always, Sirota is a dishonest hack who frames every issue to center himself. He doesn’t speak for progressive Democrats, and I reject his bullshit framing.

  19. 19.

    germy

    This just made me realize all pictures of Mark Zuckerberg look to me like Mark Zuckerberg is leaning over a hospital bed where you're strapped down, unable to move, and he is saying silkily, "It didn't have to end this way if you'd just minded your business." https://t.co/GWHJ1MHEcM

    — Sandra Newman (@sannewman) January 14, 2019

  20. 20.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    Thursday Morning Open Thread: Turn the World Around

    Love to hear percussion.

  23. 23.

    Barbara

    @OzarkHillbilly: He seems like such a decent man. I must say, I would have been a bit alarmed by someone trying to give treats to my dog, but I would have left if I really felt afraid, and summoned help if I were being followed. I do hate it when people let their dogs roam off leash.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    @Barbara:

    When I had dogs, there was a woman in the park who always had treats for the dogs she encountered.

    I called the cops on her.

     

    ETA: j/k, in case that wasn’t obvious.

  25. 25.

    Barbara

    @Betty Cracker: The Guardian’s sometimes gullible and sometimes malicious and always willful misunderstanding of US politics is what keeps me from donating. I am not willingly giving David Sirota a nickel.

  26. 26.

    Barbara

    @Baud: She didn’t feel afraid because you don’t stick around when you are afraid. She had to make a fraudulent claim because she knew she was in the wrong. I would have left the area.

  27. 27.

    satby

    @debbie:  Losing her job vs. potentially causing that man to lose his life at the hands of the police? She’s getting what she deserves. And I hope they charge her for the false 911 call and animal abuse.

  28. 28.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Barbara: He is a decent man, a far more decent man than I.

    I sometimes let my dogs off the leash in areas where I am not “allowed” to, but they are both good boys who stay close and come to me when called, and I have leashes to put them on as soon as I see someone coming.

  29. 29.

    WereBear

    No question that Christian Cooper is a birder! :) In case anyone was wondering.

    Essentially, while this woman deserved to be shunned for blatantly lying to put someone she’s angry with in a dangerous situation, she’s also a scapegoat. By piling on her, we focus on an individual instead of the institutional/cultural pressures which created her.

    Still, she’s also an obnoxious piece of work who deserves all the consequences bad public relations will bring to bear on her. Don’t worry our little heads: she will land on her feet somewhere among white upper class racists. Which are not hard to find in a sociopathic milieu like corporate finance…

  31. 31.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @OzarkHillbilly: If progressives wanted their priorities to, erm, make progress within the party, they should have explored their options and not latched so determinedly to such a flawed candidate.

    I was every bit as frustrated at Bernie’s durability in the top of the primary field as Biden’s.

  32. 32.

    Betty Cracker

    @Barbara: The excerpts I read suggest the birder knew that a stranger offering treats to the dog would prompt the dog walker to leash the dog, and he was right about that. Thank dog he had a phone when she responded by weaponizing white supremacy to try to frame him for threatening her.

    As a birder myself, I think we can come across as cranks on the subject of roaming pets. I’ve shamed people into leashing dogs on the beach by pointing out that the laws forbidding it aren’t to keep dogs from having a good time but to protect nesting shorebirds. If it were up to me, nobody’s pet cats would be allowed to roam outside off leash, ever.

    But I can confront people in a tone that ranges from polite but firm to mildly obnoxious without worrying that someone will call the cops and try to frame me for a crime. What a fucked up society.

  33. 33.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: There were more Bernie Sanders supporters in 2016, since he was the only viable primary alternative to Hillary Clinton. The people who stuck with him in the 2020 cycle, with a field split more ways, should be expected to be more hardcore Bernie-or-Buster.

  34. 34.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @WereBear: Don’t worry our little heads: she will land on her feet somewhere among white upper class racists.

    If she has at least two functioning brain cells to rub together, but no more than ten, her resume should already be at Fox News HR.

  35. 35.

    germy

    @WereBear:

    By piling on her, we focus on an individual instead of the institutional/cultural pressures which created her.

    I agree she’s a symptom.  She’s horrible, but it’s also horrible that we know there’s a good chance the birder would have been murdered by police if he’d been there when the police showed up and didn’t have a cell phone.

    Fix the problem in the police depts (and it’s not just a redstate problem) and then women like Ms.  Off-Leash Cooper lose their power.

  36. 36.

    germy

    @WereBear:

    The rescue organization taking the dog back? Priceless.

    And I bet the dog suffers no more “near accidents” now that this woman is out of his life.

    Her instagram account (or whatever it was) is full of “OMG my little baby almost died but I saved his life!” stories.  Almost choking.  Almost drowning. More than a few stories like that.

  37. 37.

    Princess

    @OzarkHillbilly: I honestly think one reason Bernie lost was that *people looked at the people high up in his campaign and realized many of them would be perfectly fine with a Trump second term and thought, “Nope. Anyone but Bernie,” and banded together.

    Even if Bernie had won, and won the presidency, with people like Sirota and Brie Brie and, frankly, his own wife deeply involved in the West Wing, he would have accomplished nothing.

    *I’m not talking about ordinary voters. More obsessed people like us and people active in the Democratic party.

  39. 39.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @WereBear: Don’t worry our little heads: she will land on her feet somewhere among white upper class racists.

    Indeed she will. This virtual lynching of a poor white woman who was just minding her own business when accosted by this large black man and made to fear for her purity virginity precious bodily fluids dog’s virtue was absolutely right to call the police. Who among us wouldn’t do the same?

  40. 40.

    Brachiator

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    This Guardian piece is crazy shit.

    These are bleak days for America’s progressive movement. The Democratic primary process handed the party’s nomination to the candidate with the most conservative record. Corporate-friendly politicians like the New York governor, Andrew Cuomo, are using the pandemic to brandish their images and install billionaires to run things. Progressive lawmakers in Congress are being steamrolled, even by their own party’s leadership. And a recession is battering the state and local budgets that fund progressive priorities like education and the social safety net.

    The Pandemic is pretty fucking bleak for the goddam human race. And Governor Cuomo is “using” the pandemic?? It’s like trying to save lives is what? inconsequential compared to the progressive agenda.

    And apparently the Democratic primary is invalid because the majority of the people voted for the “wrong” candidate.

    These hard core so-called progressives are useless. They live in their own special bubble.

  41. 41.

    JPL

    @OzarkHillbilly: Because she was fired so quickly, the same attitude that was displayed in the park, likely occurred at work.    I imagine they interviewed some of the folks beneath her.

  43. 43.

    Immanentize

    @Matt McIrvin: Yes. First thing I noticed about that presentation — percentages of Sanders voters, not numbers.  As my Dad used to say, figures don’t lie, but liars figure.

    Meanwhile, is there anything more likely to piss off Sanders’ supporters than a recommendation in favor of Warren??????

  45. 45.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @Princess: Even if Bernie had won, and won the presidency, with people like Sirota and Brie Brie and, frankly, his own wife deeply involved in the West Wing, he would have accomplished nothing.

    I’m not sure this is true, given the likelihood of Democratic strength in Congress that would come along with this and the high-quality hiring pool his ties to the party would have provided.

    Congress would define the parameters of the domestic policy discussion and, on issues where Bernie could act on his own, he would not be completely bereft of good advice.

    Sure, it wouldn’t be ideal. But compared to what we have now it would probably look like the model of government efficiency.

  46. 46.

    Betty Cracker

    40 million unemployment claims filed in the past 10 weeks, per a WaPo alert on my phone. Wow.

  47. 47.

    NotMax

    @Brachiator

    Brandish their images? Way to mangle the language, David.

    “Hm. How can I pad Democrats In Disarray to 800 words?”

  49. 49.

    mad citizen

    @Baud: First, the potential censorship or pressure on online platforms is chilling.  Second, sounds like trump might want to sue Twitter.  The self-serving is incredible.

    Maybe twitter should not exist for government or business people–everyone should only have personal accounts.

    The media should report on the nature of the replies to trump’s tweets–they are vicious.

  50. 50.

    Baud

    @Brachiator:

    @NotMax:

    Disagree.  It’s shameful that Establishment Democrats are using the country’s pressing need for  leadership to demonstrate their ability to lead.

  52. 52.

    Anne Laurie

    @Baud: When I had dogs, there was a woman in the park who always had treats for the dogs she encountered.

    True story:  A friend & I were once ‘mugged’ by a Secret Service dog for dog treats…

    (More innocent days, those: Albuquerque in 2000.  We were attending a hobby convention, and came back after a day of touristing to find SS agents had taken over the parking garage, because the then-President was speaking to a different group at the same hotel that night.   One of the sniffer dogs recognized that *somebody* hadn’t cleaned out her tote bag before leaving home, and there was still a goodie or two she might be charmed into surrendering.   His handler was NOT pleased, but two middle-aged white ladies get more slack than an African-American birder… )

  54. 54.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    This comment showed up here last night (I wasn’t the author):

    2.709 million Americans were deployed to Vietnam. 58,220 of them died. 1.746 million Americans have officially contracted Covid-19 so far. 102,107 of them are dead.

    Vietnam deaths got a wall with a list. I propose a virtual memorial, laser projected on or above every Trump Tower and Trump property, composed of the faces and name lists of COVID victims interspersed with screenshots of inflammatory Trump tweets.

  59. 59.

    Amir Khalid

    @Baud:

    I don’t get why any Democrat should give a rat’s patootie about Biden’s support among Bernistas — or why winning their support matters, even if it’s doable. They are much fewer now than in 2016, and much less significant.

    Does it really matter how well Biden’s eventual choice of running mate performed in the primary? I expect that Democratic voters will support whichever woman Biden picks. He has some superbly qualified ones to choose from, not just Harris and Warren, and it’s going to be hard to botch the selection.

    Nor can I really see any of the most touted candidates as a potential drag on the ticket or on Biden’s White House. Democratic voters will be voting first and foremost for the presidential candidate, after all, and that’s Biden. Also, Biden himself was a lacklustre primary candidate in 2008, yet was excellent as Obama’s running mate and VP.

    I wish political writers would spend more time thinking about how Biden envisages the VP job, and who would best fit that requirement. It’s more relevant than her polling numbers as a candidate.

  60. 60.

    gene108

    @WereBear:

    I doubt she lands on her feet. No company will want the bad PR of hiring her, because at some point she’s going to update her LinkedIn profile, etc. with info on the new job.

    With the cratered economy, I doubt companies are looking to hire. Even in a good economy, with no social shaming, it can take months to land a similar job after getting fired.

  61. 61.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Almost forgot, this also from the NYT, Charles Blow goes there:

    Specifically, I am enraged by white women weaponizing racial anxiety, using their white femininity to activate systems of white terror against black men. This has long been a power white women realized they had and that they exerted.

    This was again evident when a white woman in New York’s Central Park told a black man, a bird-watcher, that she was going to call the police and tell them that he was threatening her life.

    This was not innocent nor benign nor divorced from historical context. Throughout history, white women have used the violence of white men and the institutions these men control as their own muscle.

    From the beginning, anti-black white terrorists used the defense of white women and white purity as a way to wrap violence in valor. Carnage became chivalry.

    We often like to make white supremacy a testosterone-fueled masculine expression, but it is just as likely to wear heels as a hood.
    ………………………….
    This practice, this exercise in racial extremism, has been dragged into the modern era through the weaponizing of 911, often by white women, to invoke the power and force of the police who they are fully aware are hostile to black men.

    In a disturbing number of the recent cases of the police being called on black people for doing everyday, mundane things, the calls have been initiated by white women. And understand this: Black people view calling the police on them as an act of terror, one that could threaten their lives, and this fear is not without merit.

    There are too many noosed necks, charred bodies and drowned souls for these white women not to know precisely what they are doing: They are using their white femininity as an instrument of terror against black men.

    Stop beating around the bushes Charles. Tell us how you really feel.

  63. 63.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Amir Khalid:

    I wish political writers would spend more time thinking about how Biden envisages the VP job, and who would best fit that requirement.

    But that sounds suspiciously like *wor

    ETA: I tried to type *work* with both asterisks, but it seems FYWP doesn’t like one as an ending character in a comment.

  64. 64.

    Nicole

    Any day that starts with the first online image I see being Harry Belafonte is a good day.  I remember watching that episode of The Muppet Show as a wee child back in the 1970s.  My parents had his Live at Carnegie Hall album (the first one; I think he did two) and I was obsessed with all things Harry Belafonte at that age.

    Childhood crushes linger, too.  The branch of the NYPL I live closest to was recently renamed after him, and every time I arrange to borrow a book via the website it asks me at check out, “Would you like to pick this book up from Harry Belanfonte?” and I get all bashful and think, “Would I EVER!” :)

  65. 65.

    Baud

    @Chyron HR:

    Some progressives, I assume, are good people

    Most are.  The problem is how we relate to each other. Betty Cracker has correctly said that, over the long-term, the Democratic Party cannot remain the party of all sane political ideas, covering the waterfront from Evan Bayh to AOC. But I think the same is true of “progressives.” That movement or cohort of people cannot cover the waterfront of people who are dedicated Democrats and people who hate the Democratic Party.  Something has to give at some point (and maybe that point was the 2016 election).

  67. 67.

    rp

    @Baud: This seems crazy to me. (a) There’s little evidence AFAIK that VP picks in general make much of a difference in the general election, (b) I don’t buy that selecting Warren would persuade Sanders diehards, and (c) picking a VP is about far more than the election, esp. now. Warren’s seat isn’t safe, and she wouldn’t be a great position to run in 4 or 8 years. As much as I like her, I really don’t want Biden to pick Warren.

  68. 68.

    Amir Khalid

    @mad citizen:

    Here’s what I think Dorsey ought to do. If he believes that Trump’s tweets are part of the public record, then he certainly should keep them accessible to the public; i.e. anyone should be able to find every tweet Trump ever tweeted, from day one. But Dorsey should also ban Trump, as a persistent violator of community standards, from tweeting new tweets.

  70. 70.

    Brachiator

    @zhena gogolia:

    He’s “brandishing his image”? WTF does that mean? I think he means “burnish.”

    The author of the piece is both stupid and in need of a copy editor.

  71. 71.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @Amir Khalid: I don’t get why any Democrat should give a rat’s patootie about Biden’s support among Bernistas — or why winning their support matters, even if it’s doable.

    It’s doable.  Among the Bernie supporters I know  who didn’t immediately embrace Biden, I’ve made some progress on softening their position with respectful conversations about the importance of their support in the GE and occasionally pointing out a worthy, lofty goal I curated for such conversations from Biden’s website.

    Wherever I perceive I’ve gained some traction I actually encourage them to read Biden’s policy proposals on his site, because he actually has many of such worthy goals and people who liked Bernie are bound to find something they like.

    A reminder of the importance of Congress in policymaking and Bernie’s continued presence in the Senate couldn’t hurt also, too.

  74. 74.

    Amir Khalid

    @Baud:

    I think the problematic progressives are that ilk who see themselves as The Only TRUE Progressives.

  78. 78.

    Nicole

    @Barbara:

    I must say, I would have been a bit alarmed by someone trying to give treats to my dog,

    Mr. Cooper said that’s why he carries them- dog owners who ignore requests to leash their dogs freak out at the prospect of their dog taking food from a stranger (also demonstrating they don’t have the control over their dog that they delude themselves into thinking they do) so they’ll put the dog back on a leash.  As an NYC dog owner who HATES owners of ill-behaved off-leash dogs, I think this is brilliant.   Keep your dog on a leash and strangers won’t call the dog over to give it treats.

    People posted shots from the Instagram the woman kept  of her dog, and in one of them she had photos of the dog after, as she claimed, it was attacked by another dog.  I’m guessing it’s why she was unwilling to go to the areas where the dogs were permitted  to be off-leash (the ones she claimed were “too dangerous”)- I suspect her dog was one who had bad social manners with other dogs and rather  than thinking, “Maybe this means I shouldn’t have my dog off leash” she decided to break the rules and destroy bird habitat away from other dogs.  My dog has great recall, but I can’t count on other dogs leaving her alone in the communal off-leash areas, so… I keep her on a leash.  So it goes.  It’s a big city; we all gotta live together and I shouldn’t expect any more privilege than anyone else.  Especially over a freaking dog (no matter how much I love her).

  80. 80.

    rp

    @gene108: There’s a line in the matrix about the fact that the simulation is set in 1999 because it was the “peak of human civilization” or something. I often think about that.

  81. 81.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: Anecdotes aren’t data, but my sense from real life encounters is that the hardcore Bernie or Bust people are mostly not registered Democrats, which also explains the Sanders campaign’s focus on open primaries and caucuses. I don’t think there’s a serious schism among self-identified progressive Democrats, but I’d love to see some data on that question.

  82. 82.

    Baud

    @Amir Khalid: Sure, but there’s a continuum. Although we can identify the worst of the worst, there’s not a clear dividing line between “bad” and “good.”  What makes it hard is that sometimes the only way to tell the difference is to examine a person’s body of work over time.  For example, although he’s not progressive, a lot of progressives regard Greenwald as less credible than they did a decade ago, based on experience.  The same might be said about Michael Moore, who we were talking about the other day.

  85. 85.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @OzarkHillbilly: FTA

    And yet, when the Republicans proposed a bill to let Trump’s appointees dole out government cash to their corporate allies with no strings attached, this same opposition party mustered not a single recorded vote against the package. Not one.

    It’s almost as though Democrats had to work around the limitations of sharing power both within Congress and with a deranged fool of a President. I suspect, also, that this package included several less objectionable parts and that there have been attempts during the crafting of this legislation and since to bring some accountability to this program.

    Also, not one vote? So then I imagine Sanders, Warren, AOC, and other people with strong support among the party’s left flank all supported this.

  86. 86.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker: I would also like to see such data.  Like I said in the comment just below yours, however, I’m not sure the lines are clean enough to permit an accurate survey. But it would be nice to have a better sense of what we’re dealing with.

  87. 87.

    germy

    @Nicole:  He gave a lecture last year, and my wife took her mother to see him.

    He’s still going strong after all these years.  The place was sold out.

  88. 88.

    Nicole

    @Betty Cracker:

    that the hardcore Bernie or Bust people are mostly not registered Democrats, which also explains the Sanders campaign’s focus on open primaries and caucuses

    Ding ding ding ding.  I’ve started ignoring progressive celebrities on Twitter who make sure to point out in at least one of their tweets that they aren’t Democrats (unsurprisingly, they are overwhelmingly white men).  Dudes, if you’re not a member of the party, I don’t give two shits what you think about the primaries.

  89. 89.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @germy:

    …in need of a copy editor.

    They’ve all been laid off.

    You mean layed off.
    Sorry, bad “lack of copy editor” joke.

  91. 91.

    NotMax

    @rp

    “Everything that can be invented has been invented.”
      – U.S. Patent Commissioner Charles Duell, 1899 (apocryphal)

  92. 92.

    geg6

    @Betty Cracker:

    I don’t like people touching me, so I’ve always tried to avoid shaking hands if I could.  I won’t miss that stupid convention at all.  Let alone all the acquaintances and strangers who always want to hug or peck my cheek when we meet.  Hallelujah, I finally have an excuse for declining the “pleasure.”

  93. 93.

    Nicole

    @germy: I’M SO ENVIOUS!  Years ago, I found out THE DAY AFTER he’d been at the library, talking about his new memoir and I was devastated not to have known.

    The Carnegie Hall album is one of the best live albums I’ve ever heard.  I don’t know what magic the engineers did, but the balance between his voice, the band and orchestra and the audience is… (chef’s kiss).  Gorgeous.  As a child, I loved the funny songs best, but as an adult I appreciate the social commentary he made with a lot of the song choices.  It’s a great album.

  94. 94.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Princess: Sanders was never close to majority support from Democrats, and had little hope of getting it. In overall support he was running behind 2016. The only reason he theoretically had a shot this time was that the field was split several ways, and he could eke out a plurality if that situation continued all the way through the campaign. But it wasn’t going to.

    His supporters tried to make the case that he was owed support from everyone who had been behind Elizabeth Warren, and kept trying to add Warren and Sanders’ numbers to make a progressive bloc that he could get, but that wasn’t likely to happen and that still wasn’t a majority anyway.

  95. 95.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @Baud: Haha, is it bad I want some context for this “scale” even though I suspect it’s entirely made up?

  98. 98.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @Matt McIrvin: His supporters tried to make the case that he was owed support from everyone who had been behind Elizabeth Warren, and kept trying to add Warren and Sanders’ numbers to make a progressive bloc that he could get, but that wasn’t likely to happen and that still wasn’t a majority anyway.

    I was firmly behind Warren and had supported Sanders in ’16.  Nevertheless, I was far, FAR away from supporting Sanders this year.

    After Warren; I was team Harris, Klobuchar, Booker, Inslee…everyone minus Williamson and Gabbard.

  100. 100.

    Bruce K

    Thanks for the clip of Belafonte and the Muppets.

    My proverbial bag was empty this morning; I almost got in a fight with an obnoxious maskless entitled jerk who thought his right to scream at people in a store overrode my desire to pay my phone bill and leave. (Well, I didn’t aggress, beyond asking if he could keep it down so I could hear the cashier; he kept on screaming at the staff, and then when he got out he started screaming at me, and telling the staff that if they were going to call the police on anyone, it should be me because he was more important than me because of how much he’d spent with them…)

    Muppets just make life better, though.

  105. 105.

    Citizen_X

    @Brachiator:

    The Democratic primary process handed the party’s nomination to the candidate with the most conservative record.

    Fucking Sirota. Buttigieg, Moulton, and a half-dozen anonymous assholes that ran were all more conservative than Biden. But go on about what “the process” (not, mind you, the actual voters) did.

  107. 107.

    Amir Khalid

    @Amir Khalid:

    Very late correction:

    I think the problematic progressives are that ilk who see paint themselves as The Only TRUE Progressives.

  108. 108.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Krope, the Formerly Dope: I was honestly not sure what to do if Warren had dropped out before Super Tuesday. I really didn’t want to vote for Biden, might have supported Sanders over him, but I wasn’t fond of that alternative either. But I voted for Warren. Wasn’t fond of Sanders folk telling me I was obligated to ditch her to make the right triple bank shot to get Bernie in the White House.

  109. 109.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @Bruce K: My proverbial bag was empty this morning; I almost got in a fight with an obnoxious maskless entitled jerk who thought his right to scream at people in a store overrode my desire to pay my phone bill and leave.

    We need a male equivalent to Karen* for wealthy white entitlement.  I propose calling them “Don”s.

    *I actually know quite a few lovely, compassionate people named Karen.

  110. 110.

    germy

    The president of the United States of America has retweeted a tweet that includes a video that opens, “the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat.”

    Thank you Cowboys. See you in New Mexico! https://t.co/aCRJeskUA8— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 28, 2020

  111. 111.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @Matt McIrvin: I was honestly not sure what to do if Warren had dropped out before Super Tuesday. I really didn’t want to vote for Biden, might have supported Sanders over him, but I wasn’t fond of that alternative either. But I voted for Warren.

    Even though she hadn’t dropped out by Super Tuesday it was already a moon shot.  I had no horse in a Biden/Sanders race and even if literally no one else was running at the point I voted, I still would have voted for the person I wanted over one of those two, just because I refuse to sit out an election.

  112. 112.

    germy

    “Pompeo led contrived campaign to blame Hillary for Benghazi, which GOP-led committee found w/out merit. now we learn while Pompeo headed CIA, first foreign-planned terrorist attack in US since 9/11 was organized; while he was SecState it was carried out” https://t.co/afnFKOM4T7

    — John Harwood (@JohnJHarwood) May 28, 2020

  113. 113.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Citizen_X: The brief moment when people were talking about it turning into a two-man Bloomberg vs. Sanders race is down the memory hole by now.

  114. 114.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @Matt McIrvin: The brief moment when people were talking about it turning into a two-man Bloomberg vs. Sanders race is down the memory hole by now.

    For the honor of competing against Trump. Talk about a national nightmare.

  116. 116.

    danielx

    @NotMax:

    “Hm. How can I pad Democrats In Disarray to 800 words?”

    He needs a little coaching, is all. David Brooks has been doing  that shit for years and makes it look easy.

  117. 117.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @Amir Khalid: You’re talking about Democratic voters who liked Bernie. I’m talking about Bernistas.

    No. I’m talking about people who, upon Biden becoming the presumptive nominee, have stated things to me up to and including we’re better off reelecting Trump.

    They are winnable.  They can be talked down.  You’d be amazed what a little respect, information, and appeals to think things over on one’s own time can accomplish.

  118. 118.

    geg6

    @Betty Cracker:

    Except that the Democrats I know and deal with don’t use the far left’s language to describe themselves.  They, and I, call themselves what they have always been called: liberals.  Just as I don’t accept GOP demonizing of the word, I don’t accept the cowardice of not using the word they demonized to describe myself.  Plus, I’m a Democrat and feel no need to give myself a new label to distinguish myself from the party.

  121. 121.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @geg6: Plus, I’m a Democrat and feel no need to give myself a new label to distinguish myself from the party.

    There are some people who use the  terms interchangeably.  There are still others who recognize liberal/progressive as distinct terms, each of which can describe important things about a person’s outlook and are not mutually exclusive to one another.

  122. 122.

    germy

    This Is the Saddest Picture I Have Ever Seen

     

    There’s no visual way into or out of this picture — no space. It’s all wall, a kind of premodern brutalism and rigid minimalism. Everything is stripped of adornment, rendered in low relief, unreal, dreamlike, diminished but concrete, realistic. Botticelli made The Desperate One in Florence when he was approaching a life crisis. He was born there in 1446 and died there in 1510. He never lived for long more than a few miles from where he was born, like Bruce Springsteen, who also has imagined encyclopedic universes filled with operatic casts. Springsteen once remarked, “I made it all up; that’s how good I am.” Botticelli saw it all. He was an eyewitness to the birth of a new world and the beginning of its death.

  123. 123.

    BC in Illinois

    @germy:

    Breaking precedent, White House won’t release formal economic projections this summer that would forecast extent of downturn

    Ah, yes . . . the Monty Python strategy:

    ” Run away ! ! Run away ! ! “

  125. 125.

    geg6

    @Krope, the Formerly Dope:

    I’m a liberal, born and raised.  I am not a socialist or a social democrat.  I am a liberal and a Democrat.  Which means that I support pretty much every progressive goal except socialism as the operative character of the US government.  I have found that those calling themselves progressives generally have contempt for people who call themselves liberals and have an unrealistic idea of what socialism is and how it (mostly doesn’t) work in the real world with real humans, especially in the United States.  And very few of them are actual Democrats.  It irritates the hell out of me how liberals will do anything to avoid using the label, accepting the framing of the GOP and assholes like Sirota.

  127. 127.

    Amir Khalid

    @germy:

    Ein kleines nitpick: Bruce Springsteen spent much of the 1990s living in California with Patti and the kids.

  128. 128.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @Amir Khalid: We appear to be talking at cross purposes.

    I’m just tryin to get across that the people I’m talking about are anything but D voters.  I’m talking Jill Stein ’16, “Bernie is as far to the right as I’m willing to go”, very online Young Turks fans.

    People who refused to consider Clinton and had been refusing to consider Biden, who have stated things to me like “I’m tired of being shamed for not jumping to support whoever the Ds nominate.”

    We aren’t going to get them all, but I think I provided at least some helpful ways to approach it.

  130. 130.

    Betty Cracker

    @geg6: I consider myself a progressive Democrat and a liberal. I’m not letting assholes like Sirota scare me off using the former any more than I allowed shit-stains like Ronald Reagan to scare me off using the latter.

  131. 131.

    RL

    I shook Harry Belefonte’s hand once. I was playing drums at a Lead Belly tribute concert, and I was only one of dozens of performers – many very famous. He took the time to walk up TO ME, shake my hand and thank me for my “artistry.” So gracious, so cool. I still have goosebumps writing about it!

  132. 132.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    I know the woman in Central Park is a symptom of a larger problem, but she’s also responsible for her actions. Sometimes you start fixing a larger problem by quashing the symptoms first.

    I had a blood draw this morning. I got halfway there and realized I’d forgotten my mask, so I had to turn around and go home to get it. Then today is the day my building leaves donuts on my door shelf and both of them were filled (ie, bad! Where’s the plain one???). First world problems.

  133. 133.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @geg6: I am a liberal and a Democrat.  Which means that I support pretty much every progressive goal except socialism as the operative character of the US government.  I have found that those calling themselves progressives generally have contempt for people who call themselves liberals and have an unrealistic idea of what socialism is and how it (mostly doesn’t) work in the real world with real humans, especially in the United States.

    As I was saying, liberal and progressive are distinct terms.  “Liberal” is decidedly pro-capitalist and many, many liberals want to see our society make important progress, but not everyone with progressive aims are liberal.

    Unfortunately, as long as the Democrats are the only party representing anyone who thinks the government should do anything beyond shooting foreigners and funnel money as quickly as possible to powerful people, that’s going to include people who are very much not liberals, at least as far as economics.

  134. 134.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Krope, the Formerly Dope: Well, strongly partisan, liberal Democrats (like many of the commenters here) are probably not the ones to reach out to that group.  I, for one, have no interest in turning away any votes, but I think my efforts will be better spent in helping to counter voter suppression.  You seem to come at politics from the same general area as those you are talking about, so perhaps you will have success talking to them.

  135. 135.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @BC in Illinois:

    I saw a license plate once, that I greatly coveted. It said:

    EDITER

    That’s fucking brilliant and one can only hope it was deliberate.

  138. 138.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @Omnes Omnibus: I, for one, have no interest in turning away any votes

    Thank you for that.

    but I think my efforts will be better spent in helping to counter voter suppression. 

    Word.  I’m fully onboard with that.

    Well, strongly partisan, liberal Democrats (like many of the commenters here) are probably not the ones to reach out to that group.

    …

    You seem to come at politics from the same general area as those you are talking about, so perhaps you will have success talking to them.

    I mean I’ve voted a straight D ticket going back to 2006 (just majority D in 02 and 04).  But yeah, I get where you’re coming from. I’m at least more sympathetic to them than…at least a handful of other people I can think of.

    And voting hasn’t happened yet so it may all come to naught, but I’m happy for any sign of progress I see. But my main point comes down to that first thing I quoted you on, please no one push people away.

  139. 139.

    germy

    @Krope, the Formerly Dope:  Many years ago I worked at a newspaper.  Editor wanted to change a title of something I’d written.  She explained that her version rolled more easier off the tounge (her spelling).

    I haven’t worked there in years, but I believe she’s still employed there, decades later.

  140. 140.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @germy: Editor wanted to change a title of something I’d written.  She explained that her version rolled more easier off the tounge.

    That’s pretty funny.  I can empathize with her though, as I am frequently called on to proofread yet am loathe to do so for my own emails and text messages.  When I’m done typing, I reflexively jump on that send button.

  142. 142.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Krope, the Formerly Dope: But my main point comes down to that first thing I quoted you on, please no one push people away.

    There’s the rub.  What constitutes pushing people away?  When a person has been involved in politics for years and has fought for an inch of policy here, half a loaf there, and gone scorched earth to keep other things from being rolled back, they sometimes can get a little prickly when someone comes comes in and suggests that they don’t want it that badly and they haven’t been trying hard enough.

  143. 143.

    Krope, the Formerly Dope

    @Omnes Omnibus: they sometimes can get a little prickly when someone comes comes in and suggests that they don’t want it that badly and they haven’t been trying hard enough.

    Well, I bristle at a lot of things I have said to me. And even though, as you know well, I am no stranger to emotional flame-outs; a lot has to break down in a dialogue before I get to that point. Equanimity never hurt anyone.

  144. 144.

    artem1s

    @HumboldtBlue:

    Two weeks after court scraps Safer at Home, Wisconsin sets record for new coronavirus cases and deaths

    right on schedule.  expect Ohio to follow suit.  We’re already having a post mothers day surge in cases.  I expect this weekend’s Megachurch reopenings to mean that Rona hotspots will move out of our urban areas and into suburbia and rural Ohio.  Gonna get really fun in those counties that have little or no health care facilities.  Thanks DeWine – for setting an example for the rest of wingnut Ohio to follow by not upholding masking directives!

  146. 146.

    cckids

    @Barbara:I must say, I would have been a bit alarmed by someone trying to give treats to my dog,

    I’ve read that he keeps the treats on him to get people to leash their dogs. They don’t listen when he asks, but they’re nervous about a stranger giving out treats, so they leash up.

    It makes sense.

  147. 147.

    Barbara

    @cckids: Yes, I gathered that was his MO — a non-threatening but effective way of pointing out that the owner’s dog is not actually under the owner’s control when they are roaming.  I don’t let my dogs off the leash, ever, anymore. I realize that it might depend to some extent on the dog or even the breed.

    What is so upside down about this incident is that she called the police BECAUSE she had no argument that the request was unreasonable or unfair.  I can’t remember where, but I read an article about a local incident in which a woman called the police to report a suspicious person on adjoining property (who turned out to be the guy who just bought the house and he TOLD her that when she asked who he was).  The person who wrote the article talked to a sociologist who said that incidents like this basically showed how white people try to force adherence to social hierarchy through law enforcement.   They view their discomfort with unexpected racial dynamics as a reason for getting the police involved.  A woman summoned the police to validate her ingrained belief that a black man had to be trespassing — not inspecting the house he had just bought.

  148. 148.

    Nicole

    @Barbara: That’s a really interesting observation!  I’m going to try to google that article because that is really fascinating. Infuriating, because it shows how deep racism is ingrained in our society, but wow, that’s really interesting

    Because yeah, what I keep coming back to is, she was in the wrong, she KNEW she was in the wrong, and that how she chose to react to being in the wrong.

  149. 149.

    Barbara

    @Nicole: In this case, the woman called the police to re-exert the “expected” hierarchy of a black man threatening a white woman, rather than admit to what was actually happening, which was, a white woman was scoffing at a black man trying to get her to be more respectful to her natural surroundings.

  150. 150.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Princess: I honestly think one reason Bernie lost was that *people looked at the people high up in his campaign and realized many of them would be perfectly fine with a Trump second term

    • They couldn’t organize a two-car funeral if you spotted them the hearse
    • Would have zero chance of getting anything more than a Post Office name through Congress and the courts
    • Would discredit the entire concept of “social democracy” for at least a generation,
    • And almost certainly lose to a competent fascist in 2024 who would end American democracy as we know it

    and thought, “Nope. Anyone but Bernie,” and banded together.

    (FTFY.)

  152. 152.

    J R in WV

    @Anne Laurie:

    One of the sniffer dogs recognized that *somebody* hadn’t cleaned out her tote bag before leaving home, and there was still a goodie or two she might be charmed into surrendering. His handler was NOT pleased

    That right there is some really fine sniffing out… you would think handler would be proud of dog’s ability to sniff~!!~

    Once saw in international airport, little sniffer dog pawing thru some distraught young woman’s luggage, looking for something. Hope it was just illicit cheese… we hurried on towards our own meeting with customs or whatever. Charlotte I think…

  153. 153.

    J R in WV

    @germy:

    Breaking precedent, White House won’t release formal economic projections this summer that would forecast extent of downturn. W/⁦@JStein_WaPo⁩: https://t.co/2tV35MAlgy

    — Josh Dawsey (@jdawsey1) May 28, 2020

    Check and Mate, Libs.

    Trump is so stupid he doesn’t know the White House can’t stop people outside the West Wing from releasing economic forecasts, mostly more accurate than politically motivated forecasts.

    So stupid, I’m in awe of how stupid!

  155. 155.

    J R in WV

    @Nicole:

    The Carnegie Hall album is one of the best live albums I’ve ever heard.

    Perhaps because of the nature of Carnegie Hall, which is world famous for it’s wonderful acoustics, which I can vouch for, just the crowd applauding sounds better than the usual hall.

    We heard a jazz act there, with a big black community turn out for a home town group. Great dressy crowd. Loved everything about that night! Everything there is to love about NYC.

  156. 156.

    J R in WV

    @BC in Illinois:

    I saw a license plate once, that I greatly coveted. It said:

    EDITER

    Swell, funny. Here in WV we have a rule that an otherwise too old and ratty a truck can have “Farm Use Only” painted on the doors and can be used without a license plate or state inspection; you do need liability insurance. You can in theory only drive from your farm to nearby farm supply stores, or other farms to procure hay, etc. You see some amusing vehicles.

    Wife reported seeing a new Lexus SUV with the vanity plate “FARM USE” — I have since seen it too in town. Funniest vanity plate ever in my book!

  157. 157.

    Llelldorin

    @Krope, the Formerly Dope:

    Also, not one vote? So then I imagine Sanders, Warren, AOC, and other people with strong support among the party’s left flank all supported this.

    The DNC must have used their “influence” or hypno-rays or something.

    (I always love how the DNC always transforms into something between The Order of Solomon’s Temple and mind-controlling aliens as needed in these arguments, despite being entirely comprised of a bunch of third-tier dems who have never shown much more than bare political competence in any other context.)

  158. 158.

    SteverinoCT

    @Anne Laurie:

    True story: A friend & I were once ‘mugged’ by a Secret Service dog for dog treats…

    That scene in “Top Secret” where the “SS” dogs alerted on the peasant with a backpack; he was dragged off and shot, while the dogs tore open the pack: dog treats.

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