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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Joe Biden Speaks on George Floyd Death

Reader Interactions

185Comments

  5. 5.

    Mary G

    Joe Biden's speech was incredible. I received numerous texts about it from friends and family who've told me they are ready to do everything in their power to see him elected. I am too. Who's with me?— Ares ?? (@AresStopell) May 29, 2020

  7. 7.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    pretty strong statements:  “we’re a country with an open wound and we can no longer turn away”  —  “who will be next”

  9. 9.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Mary G:

    Either it’s a federal probe into how to exonerate the police officers involved, or he’s going to get squashed by his own boss, fast.  Trump is a white supremacist with a history of pardoning people who murder minorities.  If this cop IS convicted of murder, I expect a pardon.

  10. 10.

    WaterGirl

    Charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter. I wonder why third-degree?Manslaughter?  “Oops, I didn’t mean to kill him, just accidentally killed him while putting the full weight of my body on the man’s neck.  Could have happened to anyone!”

    *my made-up quote.

  11. 11.

    Joe Falco

    So does this mean Sen Klobuchar is no longer going to be considered as a potential VP pick?

  17. 17.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    If this cop IS convicted of murder, I expect a pardon.

    If that happens, what will erupt across the length and breadth of this country will make last night in Minneapolis look like a Quaker meeting.

  19. 19.

    WaterGirl

    @Joe Falco: Magic 8-ball says you are correct.  I had assumed Amy K. was on the short list in the first place as a courtesy because she had been in the race.  But now i see her chances at not just zero, but less than zero.

  22. 22.

    MisterForkbeard

    This is an excellent speech. He’s sad and a little faltering at first. But he’s ANGRY and it shows through shortly after he starts. Lots of energy, lots of calls for action. Specific action.

  24. 24.

    Elizabelle

    @Frankensteinbeck:   You are one size fits everything, I realize, but even horrible Bill Barr can see what an appalling event this murder on camera by Minneapolis police was.

    I think they’re trying to get out ahead of it.  Don’t look at us for all of the race-baiting and Trump’s incendiary tweets.  We have started a federal probe.

  25. 25.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Origuy:

    Good point.  Apparently there are federal and state levels of homicide prosecution?  Trump is too lazy and stupid to do anything that requires more than a couple of minutes of yelling at someone to get done, but Barr seems loyal enough that if there’s a way to interfere from a federal level, he’ll find it.

    EDIT – @Elizabelle:

    I think they’re trying to get out ahead of it.

    That is definitely the official GOP reaction, if McConnell is saying this is a bad thing.  Trump can’t even denounce Nazis, though.  If Barr is trying to do the smart thing, Trump will override it.

  29. 29.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Exactly.  Anybody on “our side” who was lukewarm on his candidacy and thinking about sitting it out or abrogating their electoral responsibility needs to see this.

  30. 30.

    Baud

    Murder Charges in Minnesota

    Minnesota has several degrees of murder that they can charge a defendant. The state also has other types of laws that involve the unlawful killing of another that do not rise to the murder level.

  31. 31.

    WaterGirl

    @HumboldtBlue: I added that video up top.  I don’t know the name of the woman who is speaking, but she is President of the NAACP in Minneapolis. I hope this video is seen far and wide.

  32. 32.

    CaseyL

    Wonderful statement.  I’m heartsick, but it was good to hear Joe speak simply and eloquently about America’s original sin.

  33. 33.

    Baud

    I think it’s third degree because they believe it will be hard to prove “intent,” which is required for first and second degree.

  36. 36.

    Amir Khalid

    @Baud:

    I only ever went to the TV school of law, but it’s my impression that if it’s at all problematic to prove premeditation, as in a case like this, the prosecutors will go for something short of murder like manslaughter or negligent homicide.

  37. 37.

    Elizabelle

    Cannot find a transcript of Biden’s remarks.  Good excerpt in a quick WaPost recap.

    I really, really wish the Biden campaign would put the video and a transcript up, pronto.

    WaPost item on the Biden speech:  and Biden’s rhetoric was way more eloquent than what is quoted here.

    Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, called on every American to confront the nation’s historic racial injustices and said those who remain silent are “complicit in perpetuating these cycles of violence.”

    In a live virtual address Friday afternoon, the former vice president to the nation’s first African American president spoke gravely about the killing of George Floyd, casting it as one more unnecessary death of a black American in a long list that dates back hundreds of years.

    “The original sin of this country still stains our nation today,” Biden said solemnly. “And sometimes we manage to overlook it. We just push forward with a thousand other tasks in our daily life. But it’s always there. And weeks like this, we see it plainly that we’re a country with an open wound.”

    Without mentioning him by name, Biden also condemned President Trump over a tweet flagged by Twitter as inciting violence against people protesting Floyd’s killing in Minnesota.

    “It’s no time to encourage violence. This is a national crisis,” Biden said. “We need real leadership right now, leadership that will bring everyone to the table so we can take measures to root out systemic racism.”

    Earlier in the day, Biden tweeted a simple message seemingly intended for Trump: “Enough.”

    Then, in two subsequent tweets, Biden said he wouldn’t amplify the president’s words by repeating them, but characterized them as “calling for violence against American citizens during a moment of pain for so many.”

    “I’m furious, and you should be too,” Biden wrote.

    Biden also noted in his earlier tweets the injustice of a black CNN reporter’s arrest while covering the protests as “the white police officer who killed George Floyd remains free.” He added, “this, to me, says everything.”

    As Biden began his remarks, Derek Chauvin, the Minnesota police officer captured on video pressing his knee into Floyd’s neck, was arrested.

    Biden said he had spoken to members of Floyd’s family, who he described as a “close, decent, honorable, family loving one another” who had to hear their loved one beg for air, calling it “an act of brutality so elemental.”

    “It did more than deny one more black man in America his civil rights and his human rights. It denied him of his very humanity and denied him of his life,” Biden said.

    As of Thursday afternoon, Trump had not spoken to the family.

    Biden closed his remarks promising the Floyds that “we will do everything in our power to see to it that justice is had.”

  38. 38.

    japa21

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: There are people here and elsewhere that say that Biden is not inspiring. Sure, he may not have the oratorical skills of Obama and others, but that was a inspirational address.

    I loved the line about how we just can’t, once again, let this wound scab over, like we have done so many times in the past.

  39. 39.

    Brit in Chicago

    Can we have Joe Biden as President? Please? Soon?

    I was lukewarm about him (though always thought him infinitely better than the alleged incumbent), but this really changes my opinion.

  41. 41.

    kindness

    I’m not looking forward to Trump’s racist ass tweets over Joe’s statement.  Damn that part of this timeline is really shitty.  Good going Uncle Joe.  Keep the faith.

  42. 42.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Baud: Oddly enough, Christmas is happening in November this year. Sure, it’s early but I’ll take it. I get to vote to pick out my present.

  44. 44.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Frankensteinbeck: McConnell is saying this is bad, but he’s also attacking the protestors and rioters, saying they’re overreacting and that ‘we have justice in america and they just had to wait for it’, etc.

    They’re trying to thread the needle and hoping that the violence is bad enough they can energize their racist base with cursory statements about the murder itself while spending a lot of time condemning the local response to complete police inaction.

  45. 45.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    AAAaaaaaaannnnd he just told the world we will no longer fund WHO.

    We’re not gonna make it to November.

    He’s starting a war with China

  47. 47.

    zhena gogolia

    @japa21:

    He’s a good person and it comes through. A stark contrast to the villains who are now populating the regime.

  55. 55.

    HumboldtBlue

    This is absolutely absurd, this can’t be happening, this can’t be the state of our national executive. That fucking fool turns and walks away after a slew of nonsense about China.

    We are not only fucked, but we are bound and gagged while being fucked.

  57. 57.

    West of the Rockies

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I would be stunned if he was convicted within 200 days, the amount of time Clump is still in charge before being escorted from the White House.  He won’t be able to pardon the racist, toxic-masculinity cop.

  62. 62.

    Kay

    “China’s coverup of the Wuhan virus allowed it to spread all over the world.”

    They’re back to the “Wuhan virus” shit. I believe we have already seen this tactic. I insist the low quality hires put some effort into excuse making. They literally perform no other work than churning out this bullshit- must it also be this lame?

  63. 63.

    Leto

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I think that alone is going to carry a lot of people. Honestly after 3 years of some of the most morally bankrupt people being in charge, having someone who is a fundamentally decent person in the lead means plenty.

  66. 66.

    WaterGirl

    Today I find myself wondering how we will make it thru the election in November without the world blowing up.  Possibly literally.

  67. 67.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Baud: Before he came to the lectern, I was wondering how frantically they were rewriting, as this morning’s events unfolded. It was hard to see how Trump could fake any level of human concern. Probably his and his handlers’ best bet not to say anything, but that’s not going to fly.

  68. 68.

    germy

    Stunning.

    President Trump says nothing about Minnesota as the nation is on edge and leaves the Rose Garden without taking questions.

    — Yamiche Alcindor (@Yamiche) May 29, 2020

  69. 69.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @West of the Rockies:

    I would be stunned if he was convicted within 200 days

    That did occur to me, but the point is, Trump is not just racist, he is hardcore racist with no self-control.  No matter what anyone else in the GOP recognizes as wise, if his administration does anything about this murder it will be to side with the cop.  It sounds like his staff has at least convinced him to ignore the topic and bitch about China for now.

  70. 70.

    p.a.

    Citing the danger of Trump’s re-election, the Green Party of Rhode Island says it won’t put a Green candidate on the presidential ballot
    Guess no rubles/kochpence  trickle down to the RI Greens, so they can do the right thing.  Unlike the national party.

    What’s shit-midas’ reaction gonna be, even to what will be a half-assed, political-cover operation ‘investigation’ by the DoJ?

  71. 71.

    HumboldtBlue

    @WaterGirl:

    I did as Betty ordered and I shut the fuck up and I went for a walk.

    I came back to this.

    I can’t start drinking at noon.

  73. 73.

    bluefoot

    @Bluegirlfromwyo:

    Yup, me too.  I’m on that bus (or maybe since it’s Joe, I’m in that convertible?).  He’s done a lot of problematic (to say the least!) things in the past, but he’s really bringing it.  And if he’s able to bring white people along, I’m happy to drag as many people on the bus with me as I can.

  75. 75.

    Inventor

    You know what? That guy would be a way better President than the one we have now.

  76. 76.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Maggie Haberman
    @maggieNYT
    ·40m
    Spotted at White House again this week: Karl Rove.

    @maggieNYT
    ·Apr 19, 2015
    [email protected]
    got her hands on that “Clinton Cash” book, y’all

    Same energy.

  78. 78.

    Brachiator

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Trump is a white supremacist with a history of pardoning people who murder minorities. If this cop IS convicted of murder, I expect a pardon.

    I don’t see Trump pardoning this guy. Not even at the last minute before he leaves the White House after a November defeat.

    Trump is also grotesque. He is a racist, but he also needs to be loved. So he talks about how much he has done for black people, even though he has not done shit.

    He will talk tough about law and order to play to his base. But it will be interesting to see if he squeaks out even a tiny bit of sympathy for those who have been kicked in the gut by the cops’ heinous act.

  79. 79.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Despite the way it was billed, it was not a press conference. It was a statement. He read a statement off the teleprompter and then he went back inside without taking a single question from reporters.

    ETA: Of course I know you know this, Cheryl. Even though I replied to your comment, I’m pissed at the WH, not at you. I fear it came across differently.

  83. 83.

    Brachiator

    @germy:

    I had not read many of the posts here when I noted that Trump is a racist who still wants to be loved by everyone, including black people. I wondered if he would play to his racist base or offer some thoughts about Minnesota, and show any sympathy.

    President Trump says nothing about Minnesota as the nation is on edge and leaves the Rose Garden without taking questions.

    Answers my question.

    My mother generally is a sweet spirit. But she would call out hypocrites as a lying sack of shit.

    Trump is a soulless lying sack of shit.

  84. 84.

    JMG

    Trump got mad at a virus because he felt it made him look bad on purpose. I’m sure he think George Floyd got himself murdered to make him, Trump, look bad, too. So he’s yelling at China, whose government of course will make outraged sounds then go back to the offices and laugh uncontrollably.

  85. 85.

    August West

    Amy Klobuchar tries to defend herself:

    Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) on Friday denied dropping criminal charges against Derek Chauvin during her tenure as Hennepin County attorney, calling it “absolutely false” and “a lie.”

    “The case … was investigated. That investigation continued into a time where I was already sworn into the U.S. Senate. I never declined the case. It was handled and sent to the grand jury by my successor,” Klobuchar said in an interview on MSNBC.

    Chauvin, the officer who has been charged with murder in connection with the death of George Floyd, was one of six officers who shot 42-year-old Wayne Reyes in 2006 after Reyes brandished a shotgun. While Klobuchar did have the power to charge the officers with wrongdoing, she said she opted to let the investigation continue until she left office. The case was dropped in 2008 when a grand jury advised against charging Chauvin.

    Klobuchar said she regrets the decision. “I have said repeatedly back when I was the county attorney, the cases we had involved with officer-involved shootings went to a grand jury. That was true in every jurisdiction across our state and many jurisdictions across the country. I think that was wrong now. I think it would have been much better if I took the responsibility and looked at the cases and made the decision myself.”

    h/t https://www.mediaite.com/news/amy-klobuchar-denies-blowing-off-chance-to-charge-george-floyds-killer-absolutely-false/

  86. 86.

    lamh36

    This is NOT GOOD! Whatever you think you know about the World Health Organization from some bullshit fake as conspiracy video on Facebook or wherever, the WHO has more credibility on COVID and global health issues than the current administration and the what the CDC has become under Chump!!!

    JUST IN: Trump says he will terminate US relationship with @WHO…..

  87. 87.

    pamelabrown53

    @Baud:

    I agree that the charges were a result of difficulty proving intent.

    Still, a thought experiment: if a black male fought against a white police officer because he feared the officer was trying to kill him and gained the upper hand and the white officer died, would the DA charged the black man with the third degree murder/manslaughter because of the difficulty with proving intent?

  88. 88.

    Elizabelle

    Working on an informal transcript.  Here’s the part that really spoke to me:  first part of Biden’s speech, which calls out racism and which the early stories are … not touching yet.  He’s got a passage that just breaks my heart and tears it out, too.

    [Begins with having spoken with the Floyd family.]

    “And they’re a close, decent, honorable family, loving one another.

    And once we heard the words — and they heard them — “I can’t breathe.”
    An act of brutality so elemental it did more than deny one more black man in America his civil rights and his human rights.  It denied him of his very humanity.  It denied him of his life.

    Depriving George Floyd as it deprived Eric Garner.  One of the things that every human being must be able to do.  Breathe.

    It’s so simple.  So basic.  So brutal.

    The same thing happened with Aubury.  The same thing happened with Breonna Taylor.  The same thing with George Floyd.

    We’ve spoken their names aloud.  We’ve cried them out in pain and in horror.  We’ve chiseled them into our long-suffering hearts and they’re the latest additions to the endless list of stolen potential wiped out unnecessarily.   You know, it’s a list that dates back more than 400 years.  Black men, black women, black children.  The original sin of this country still stains our nation today, and sometimes we manage to overlook it.

    We just push forward with the thousand other tasks in our daily life, but it’s always there, and weeks like this we see it plainly that we are a country with an open wound.  None of us can turn away.  None of us can be silent.  None of us can any longer hear the words “I can’t breathe” and do nothing.

    You know, we can’t fail victims with what Martin Luther King called “the appalling silence of good people.”

  89. 89.

    sdhays

    @JMG: A big part of Dump’s election strategy was relieving the pressure on farmers brought by his dumbass trade war. He backed down and got China to promise to buy a bunch of agricultural products. Somehow, I expect that now all of the agriculture products that China promised to buy somehow never get sold to China.

  90. 90.

    Brachiator

    “China’s coverup of the Wuhan virus allowed it to spread all over the world.”

    I try to avoid what-if political hypotheticals, but I have no doubt that if a pandemic originated in the US, Trump would bend over backwards, jump through hoops, do every fucking thing he could to cover it up. He could have live virus dripping from his lips and say “Nope, nothing here.”

    I don’t take his claims seriously.

    But Trump’s base see China as needing to be hurt, punished for daring to take away American jobs, or whatever. These fools don’t care if Trump even risks war with China.

  92. 92.

    Gretchen

    @WaterGirl: Prosecutors on twitter are saying they had to charge it that way because first and second you have to prove intent to murder and juries tend to give the benefit of the doubt to police and  they don’t want to make a charge they don’t think they can win.

  93. 93.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @lamh36: These asswipes really think that if they ignore COVID-19, it’ll go away. Un-fucking-believable.

  94. 94.

    Brachiator

    @lamh36:

    JUST IN: Trump says he will terminate US relationship with @WHO…..

    Right wing America first fools are deliriously happy to hear this.

    Trump’s base: This is a good thing. America needs to spend all its money on me and mine.

    Voice of Reason: But Trump will just give this money to the rich in the form of tax cuts.

    Trump’s base: Well, when I strike it rich, I want my tax cut, too. America! America!

  95. 95.

    Elizabelle

    This is fascinating, how all the Very. Important. People can now discuss Trump’s pulling us out of the WHO (WTF!), and ending Hong Kong’s special relationship with the US. (WTF!)

    Drowning out Biden’s wonderful speech on America’s original sin, and all the wasted potential of lost black lives.  On how we need to reform policing.

    But we all heard that.  And it’s more important — or just as important — to address.

  97. 97.

    Baud

    @pamelabrown53: I’m not going to pretend that the system is fair. But purely as a “thought experiment,” the problem for the black male (or any arrestee) would appear that he killed in order to resist a lawful arrest, not in self-defense.  And killing in the course of resisting a lawful arrest might be deemed “intent.”

    Now what if Arbery had managed to kill his two killers? In that case, he shouldn’t be arrested at all because it was self-defense.

    But all that is hypothetical, because the system isn’t fair.

  98. 98.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Elizabelle:

    We’ve spoken their names aloud.  We’ve cried them out in pain and in horror.  We’ve chiseled them into our long-suffering hearts and they’re the latest additions to the endless list of stolen potential wiped out unnecessarily.   You know, it’s a list that dates back more than 400 years.  Black men, black women, black children.  The original sin of this country still stains our nation today, and sometimes we manage to overlook it.

    Yes, that was powerful and moving, the entire speech was.

    @Spanky:

    And today sure as shit looks like on of those days.

  100. 100.

    trollhattan

    @Spanky:

    Unrecorded event from the wedding at Cana, Jesus invented the bloody Mary prior to turning water to wine. “Have thee never hosted such an event before? Verily, thou art limited in the event-giving arts.”

  102. 102.

    Edmund Dantes

    @August West: we Pontius Pilate every officer involved shooting. And just can’t get them to ever eat the ham sandwich when it comes from blue ham for some reason.

  103. 103.

    Msb

    Good job, Joe. I’m in.

    of course trump is doubling down on his threats re: WHO. Sadly, WHO is used to irresponsible US presidents trying to cut off its funding. They’ll keep working, and other Member States will keep contributing, and the US will be left behind.

  104. 104.

    Elizabelle

    The NY Times just put up a full transcript of Biden’s remarks.  They’ve got the story siloed on their “Politics” page.

    Watch Joe Biden’s Remarks on the Death of George Floyd

    “It’s time for us to face that deep open wound we have in this nation,” Mr. Biden said. “We need justice for George Floyd.”

    You know, I just had an opportunity to speak with the Floyd family, a group of them, most of them. They’re a close, decent, honorable family, loving one another. And once again we heard the words, and they heard them, “I can’t breathe” — an act of brutality so elemental, it did more than deny one more black man in America his civil rights and his human rights. It denied him of his very humanity. It denied him of his life, depriving George Floyd as it deprived Eric Garner of one of the things every human being must be able to do: breathe. So simple, so basic, so brutal.

    You know, the same thing happened with [Ahmaud] Arbery, the same thing happened with Breonna Taylor, the same thing with George Floyd. We’ve spoken their names aloud. We’ve cried them out in pain and in horror. We’ve chiseled them into long-suffering hearts. They’re the latest additions to the endless list of stolen potential wiped out unnecessarily. You know, it’s a list that dates back more than 400 years. Black men, black women, black children.

    The original sin of this country still stains our nation today, and sometimes we manage to overlook it. We just push forward with the thousand other tasks in our daily life, but it’s always there, and weeks like this, we see it plainly that we’re a country with an open wound. None of us can turn away. None of us can be silent. None of us can any longer, can we hear the words “I can’t breathe” and do nothing. We can’t fail victims, like what Martin Luther King called “the appalling silence of good people.”

    Every day, African-Americans go about their lives with constant anxiety and trauma, wondering who will be next. Imagine if every time your husband or son, wife or daughter left the house, you feared for their safety from bad actors and bad police. Imagine if you had to have that talk with your child about not asserting your rights, taking the abuse handed out to them so, just so they can make it home. Imagine having police called on you just for sitting in Starbucks or renting an Airbnb or watching birds. This is the norm black people in this country deal with. They don’t have to imagine it. The anger and frustration and the exhaustion is undeniable.

    But that’s not the promise of America. It’s long past time that we made the promise of this nation real for all people. You know, this is no time for incendiary tweets. It’s no time to encourage violence. This is a national crisis, and we need real leadership right now. Leadership that will bring everyone to the table so we can take measures to root out systemic racism. It’s time for us to take a hard look at the uncomfortable truths. It’s time for us to face that deep open wound we have in this nation.

    We need justice for George Floyd. We need real police reform to hold cops to a higher standard that so many of them actually meet, that holds bad cops accountable and repairs relationships between law enforcement and the community they’re sworn to protect. We need to stand up as a nation with the black community, with all minority communities, and come together as one America.

    That’s the challenge we face. You know, it’s going to require those of us who sit in some position of influence to finally deal with the abuse of power. The pain is too immense for one community to bear alone. I believe it’s the duty of every American to grapple with it, and to grapple with it now. With our complacency, our silence, we are complicit in perpetuating these cycles of violence.

    Nothing about this will be easy or comfortable, but if we simply allow this wound to scab over once more without treating the underlying injury, we’ll never truly heal. The very soul of America is at stake. We must commit as a nation to pursue justice with every ounce of our being. We have to pursue it with real urgency. We’ve got to make real the promise of America, which we’ve never fully grasped: that all men and women are equal, not only in creation but throughout their lives.

    Again, George’s family, thanks for taking the time to talk to me. I promise you, I promise you, we’ll do everything in our power to see to it that justice is had in your brother, your cousin’s case. I love you all, and folks, we’ve got to stand up. We’ve got to move. We’ve got to change.

  105. 105.

    mrmoshpotato

    I see it was 10 minutes of bullshit according to Wonkette’s live blogging.  Thank you Evan.

  108. 108.

    James E Powell

    For those curious, here are the relevant statutes. I have very rarely dealt with criminal cases and never with homicide other than vehicular homicide.

    609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.

    (a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

  109. 109.

    Elizabelle

    @lamh36:  WRT the WHO:  I would be curious how quickly he can do that.

    He’s done a lot of sword rattling that came to naught in the past.

  110. 110.

    Baud

    This has got to hurt the young Nazis.

    Taylor Swift on Friday blasted President Donald Trump for a tweet he posted hours prior that protesters in Minnesota should be shot.

    “After stoking the fires of white supremacy and racism your entire presidency, you have the nerve to feign moral superiority before threatening violence? ‘When the looting starts the shooting starts’??? We will vote you out in November. @realdonaldtrump,” she wrote. Swift has more than 86 million followers. Swift previously said she intends to “do everything I can” to see Trump is not reelected.

  111. 111.

    Immanentize

    @pamelabrown53: I think the charges are what a county prosecutor brings before a case is submitted to a grand jury.  A placeholder serious enough to trigger significant judicial response.  But not over the skis as more information comes in.  Remember Freddie Gray in Baltimore — the prosecutor got pretty far out in front of the facts and — although she was right! — allowed the case to get twisted and fucked with until there was no case left.  The investigators should be working to flip an officer or two who watched it all — as well as securing all their phone and text records.  Maybe this will be the final charge. Maybe not.

  112. 112.

    Brachiator

    Just had an opportunity to watch Biden’s speech.

    Just excellent. Spoken from the heart.

  113. 113.

    PST

    @Baud: Agreed. Both first and second degree murder in MN require intent to kill. There are some details, but the general distinction is premeditated vs. unpremeditated intentional killing. The statute for third degree murder reads:

    Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

    An example sometimes used is firing a gun into a crowd, but without actually intending to kill. I think this is the appropriate charge, unless it turns out that some history between the killer and his victim suggests actual intent.

  114. 114.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    @Baud: look what they made her do.

     
    I don’t like your perfect crime
    How you laugh when you lie
    You said the gun was mine
    Isn’t cool, no, I don’t like you

    But I got smarter, I got harder in the nick of time
    Honey, I rose up from the dead, I do it all the time
    I’ve got a list of names and yours is in red, underlined
    I check it once, then I check it twice, oh!

  115. 115.

    Redshift

    @Msb: And if anything, China will have more influence in the WHO because they’re funding it and we’re not.

    Bad for America and the world, but Trump I’m sure would be happy if any of his yes-men told him that, because he cares more about having the WHO as a whipping boy than about any of our lives (and cares even less about the lives of people around the world, of course )

  116. 116.

    rp

    As a general matter:

    First degree murder: Premediated. e.g., Def. planned out how he was going to kill victim the day before.

    Second degree murder: Intent to kill, but not premediated. Def. got into an argument with someone on the street, pulled out a gun, and shot victim.

    Third degree/Manslaughter (varies by state): Usually applies when killing wasn’t intentional, but Def. acted with reckless disregard for human life. Can be intentional or unintentional (e.g., drunk driving).

    First and second degree would be extremely difficult to prove in this case. Third/manslaughter is the logical choice for the prosecutors.

  117. 117.

    West of the Rockies

    Trump Tweeted that racist thug comment just before 1 a.m.  Doesn’t he sleep?  Not getting enough sleep is damaging his already broken brain (if you want to call the gelatinous mass in his skull a brain).

  119. 119.

    Mike in NC

    Many years ago, I knew an incompetent officer on my ship who left active duty and quickly got hired as a police officer in a small town in Virginia. I don’t think he lasted on the job for very long, but the fact that they hired such a specimen in the first place convinced me that standards for becoming a cop were pretty damn poor. Nothing has changed I’m sure.

  123. 123.

    yellowdog

    @Frankensteinbeck: If the shitgibbon is still in office when this comes to trial, it would mean we’d lost the election. And if that happens the US would no longer exist as a democratic country.

  125. 125.

    Jinchi

    @Mary G: AG Barr announces federal probe into killing of George Floyd

    At this point, I fully expect Barr to investigate why so many people were allowed to record video of the arrest, whether Twitter is at fault for allowing them to share the video and whether the prosecutors are violating the officer’s due process rights.

  126. 126.

    Kay

    Adam SerwerSpaghetti
    @AdamSerwer
    ·1h
    You can’t really walk back enthusiastic expressions of bloodlust. Thank you!

  128. 128.

    WaterGirl

    @HumboldtBlue:  That’s worth pasting the whole thing.  Wow.

    Between Amy Cooper’s Oscar worthy Central Park performance, Ahmaud Arbery shooting death in Georgia, Breonna Taylor’s assassination inside her Louisville home, and the Minneapolis murder of George Floyd, black people in America are running on fumes.

    We’re tired, angry, confused and yet, this space is familiar to us. This place of torment and trauma has become a home of sorts. The cycle begins in the far corners of Twitter with rumblings of a killing. Then a recording of the victim’s last moments pop up and shortly after, we finally learn the person’s name.

    A new name to add to a growing list no one wants to be part of.

    Sparks of outrage, disgust and bewilderment soon follow. Maybe a protest happens, and in the case of Floyd, uprisings. Men and women ballooned with righteous anger take to the streets to make their presence known; to scorch earth and shout from the pits of their belly to the top of their lungs that their lives matter. Whether the powers that be hear or acknowledge their chants is one thing, but it’s the community formed by the injustice of another black death that acts as a temporary solve.

    And while some of us take to the streets, the rest of us have to hide these shared feelings behind professionalism.

    I don’t know who decided that being professional was loosely defined as being divorced of total humanity, but whoever did they’ve aided, unintentionally maybe, in a unique form of suffocation.

    If I am to perform my duties for 40 hours a week, it’s asinine to assume that the life I live outside of those 40 hours won’t rear its head. Whether I’m a sleep deprived single mother of two or a struggling college student who really needs this internship to graduate, the belief that only the part of me that fattens your bottom line is allowed in the workplace, is stifling.

    This is magnified for young black professionals who are recruited for their culture, but told, in so many words, that their blackness and the struggles that come with it are to be left at the door.

    A black man went for a run only to be ambushed by two white men, shot and then killed. A black female essential worker was asleep inside her home when police serving a “no-knock” warrant shot her eight times. A white woman, enraged that a black man asked her to follow the park rules lied to cops about being threatened. And a black man died face down on the ground because a white cop suffocated him.

    But yeah, I can totally have that presentation for you by end of day, Ted. No problem.

  129. 129.

    Bill Arnold

    Here’s a WaPo ref from 2018 for “when the looting starts, the shooting starts”:
    After bloodshed in earlier U.S. riots, D.C. police showed restraint in 1968 unrest (Paul Duggan, Clarence Williams, March 26, 2018)

    In Miami, Police Chief Walter E. Headley credited the post-assassination calm in his city to a “get tough” warning he had been issuing in “the Negro district” for months.
    “This is war,” Headley had declared in late 1967. “We haven’t had any serious problems with civil uprisings and looting because I’ve let the word filter down that when the looting starts, the shooting starts.”

    Trump’s attempted walkback on twitter is a pathetic lie. (If he wrote the tweet, where did the phrase come from? His racist father, perhaps?)

  130. 130.

    Feathers

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:  I generally like Swift, and applaud her newfound spine, however this song is atrocious. I had to sit down with my bigtime Swiftie niece and have a talk with her about how “look what you made me do” is abuser talk and if anyone ever says this to her she should run. Or at least know that she should be very careful and never fully trust this person again.

  131. 131.

    Mary G

    Katie Couric is on Twitter asking that Obama and GWB make a joint statement and asking for thoughts. She’s getting them. My fav:

    definitely the most ambitious crossover event since the nuremberg trials— saeen (@saeen90_) May 29, 2020

  136. 136.

    Aleta

    And the ultimate forgetfulness of violence
    Sweeps the landscape like a headlight of a train

    Night train

    And in the absence of a vision there are nightmares
    And in the absence of compassion there is cancer
    Whose banner waves over palaces and mean streets

  137. 137.

    MisterForkbeard

    I want to note a couple of things:

    1) Even my friends and family who really dislike Biden and shit on him for no good reason had nothing but effusive praise for this speech. Though they still had to say they wished he was this good all the time.

    2) Trump is ignoring the problem as much as he can and instead has started to freak out about China. He did 8 minutes on the podium, refused to answer questions and ran away.

    The difference in quality couldn’t be clearer.

  138. 138.

    HumboldtBlue

    @chopper:  @Jamie:

    Spanky

    @HumboldtBlue:

    I can’t start drinking at noon.

    Son, there are days ahead that will require you to start at 7 AM. Best get acclimated.

  139. 139.

    rikyrah

    @Baud:

     

    I only thought he was having a conference because of the Biden statement.

    And now, folks say that he said nothing about Minneapolis???

  140. 140.

    LuciaMia

    Hannity has made some oddly sympathetic comments about George Floyds death. Did he get some serious diagnosis? Is he trying to get into Heaven?

  141. 141.

    Immanentize

    So I did a little more research about the kinda odd murder statutes in Minn. First — you must understand that “degree” is meaningless from jurisduiction to jurisdiction. The use of a “degree” is just a way or odering things as short hand within a jurisdiction. It has no legal meaning. All that said, FYI here is the second degree statute from Minn., which obviously does not apply:

    609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
    Subdivision 1. Intentional murder; drive-by shootings.
    Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
    (1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or
    (2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).
    §Subd. 2. Unintentional murders.
    Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
    (1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or
    (2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, “order for protection” includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

  143. 143.

    jonas

    @PST:unless it turns out that some history between the killer and his victim suggests actual intent.

    I forget where I saw it this morning, but someone was reporting that Floyd and this cop actually used to work together at a local restaurant — he had to have known who it was.

  144. 144.

    LuciaMia

    @West of the Rockies: His medical people celebrate the idea that he only sleeps a few hours a night, like a gerbil. What he’s supposed to be doing during that time is anybodys guess.

  145. 145.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Immanentize: I was just about to post something saying that people should not get too concerned over the “degree” in a homicide charge.  As you noted, the terms vary from state to state and they can have very specific language that lawyers need to parse.

  148. 148.

    lamh36

    I hope the family can afford an independent autopsy

    @DavidBegnaud

    BREAKING: Charging doc against Minneapolis police officer who kept his knee on George Floyd’s neck says autopsy revealed: “No physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation”…combination of force & health problems contributed to death. (CNN)

    https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/1266462897288425472

     

  151. 151.

    Baud

    @lamh36:

    No physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation”…combination of force & health problems contributed to death. (CNN)

    I’m no doctor, but “force” seems like something you would see in asphyxia or strangulation cases.

  152. 152.

    sdhays

    Questions about the exact charge aside, is “intent” really that ambiguous when the murderer has his knee on the victim’s throat and the victim says he can’t breath loud enough that it can be heard on a cell phone video? I mean, is the ambiguity that the murderer is so stupid that he might not understand that if someone can’t breath, they die?

  153. 153.

    cain

    @Elizabelle:

    Which is why, you are going to continue to go out there and even consider violence so that focus doesn’t go away. Unless Trump declares war – in which case – shit’s going down one way or another – then this needs to happen to keep the media focused.

    Enough is enough.

  155. 155.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @sdhays: In a word, yes.  Intent to hurt?  Intent to damage?  Intent to cripple?  Intent to kill?  Can you really tell?  And all you need is one juror who you can’t bring along to intent to kill.

  156. 156.

    Raoul

    Texas needs to get John Cornyn out of office. That bastard knew exactly what words he was using when he said this today.

    @tom_orsborn [San Antonio Express reporter. emphasis added below]
    More from @JohnCornyn on nationwide reaction to death of George Floyd:. “We need everybody to take a deep breath and let the authorities do their investigation, and we will hold people who are responsible accountable, but violence is not called for.”

  159. 159.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Jim Acosta is torching Dump.

     

    Just called him a “coward” — twice.

  161. 161.

    cain

    I liked the speech from the NAACP woman. It was strong. It called people out but also reached out to the hurting and angry saying we are with you. Indeed. White Minnesota should stop hiding.

  163. 163.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @MisterForkbeard: I checked some right wing sites.  Some looter (who was a older white woman in a wheelchair) was beaten and robbed.  They are now using that to accuse all protestors of being horrible people.  Expect more of that.  Ugh.

  164. 164.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @rikyrah: In most jurisdictions, premeditation requires some evidence of planning in advance, like buying poison, laying in wait for the victim, etc.  It doesn’t necessarily have to be long or elaborate planning;  walking out to your car to get a gun can be enough.   Just knowing someone won’t get you there.

  165. 165.

    Cacti

    The Flynn transcripts have been released.  Some of them anyway.

    The first smoking gun is on p.8.

    “Do not allow this administration to box us in right now.”

    Flynn requesting Kislyak work against the sitting President of the United States.  December 29, 2016.

  167. 167.

    Barbara

    @Omnes Omnibus: The laws of various states incorporate so many different concepts along this line it can be hard to figure out what the “maximum” charge could be. The idea of premeditation does get metaphysical at some point, but, basically, if it is spur of the moment, and there is no separation between the beginning and culmination of the event, it’s unlikely you can get premeditation.  If a person walks away from an argument and comes back five minutes later with a gun, there is a case for premeditation.  If during the course of an uninterrupted argument someone pulls out the same gun and causes the same injury, the case for premeditation  is much weaker.  And then there are states that single out murder for hire or murder pursuant to a conspiracy for the harshest charges.  I speculate that the gist of the third degree charge is reckless disregard of the impact of force that caused the death of a person.

  168. 168.

    J R in WV

    @PST:

    without intent to effect the death of any person

    I’m ok with thinking the cop didn’t intend to kill George Floyd the first minute he had his knee on Floyd’s neck, even the second minute. Remember, Floyd had peacefully surrendered to the group of cops, allowed them to handcuff him, then was assaulted.

    After that second minute, I’m thinking at that point the intent was to kill the guy, because he kept his knee on him nearly indefinitely. Long enough to kill him, slowly. Murder in the first degree after that second minute ran out in my book.

    The jury bill should include involuntary manslaughter, vol. man. Second and First degree homicide, all the potential offenses causing a death. Leave it up to the jury to decide, after hearing all the evidence.

    Just now I hear on CNN it was 9 minutes that cop kept his knee on Floyd’s neck. The last 7 minutes was murder. I’ll reluctantly give the cop a couple of minutes, as manslaughter, but nine minutes is way past manslaughter. Way past. And I’m an old white guy in WV.

    Fortunately I had good black men around me as a little kid, and served in the Navy with good hard working black men as shipmates. So I’m not crazed RWNJ, I’m a solid liberal who believes in equality. Hated seeing Jim Crow as a really little kid driving into the south on family vacation, was shocked and appalled.

  169. 169.

    Gravenstone

    @Frankensteinbeck: Yup. Either they’ll do a quick whitewash to keep a DOJ under Biden from coming after him and his confederates, or he’ll get chucked under the bus as a “bad apple” to try and protect the department as a whole.

  170. 170.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Barbara: Yes, I know that.  I was trying for a fairly simple answer to rikyrah’s question not a detailed analysis of the concept of premeditation.

  174. 174.

    Ruckus

    @HumboldtBlue:

    There are no good words here.

    I know of none that will make this better.

    I’m so angry it makes my jaw hurt trying to eat. But I have to eat anyway, so I can be here to help to try to change this.

  176. 176.

    Patricia Kayden

    Dear @realDonaldTrump: You’re full of shit. You wrote: “the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts.” The “we will assume control” language destroys your attempt to backtrack. Delete your tweet. https://t.co/5Nvarm4adc— Ted Lieu (@tedlieu) May 29, 2020

  178. 178.

    James E Powell

    Republicans have dragged Trump into reacting to this Floyd situation. They must realize that they cannot survive an election in which the African American voters are energized.

    ETA – Or it could have been Ivanka’s moderating influence, I can’t be sure.

  182. 182.

    Patricia Kayden

    There is a concept in tort law known as the “eggshell plaintiff.” What that means is that even an extraordinary frailty on the part of an injured victim is not a valid affirmative defense to the negligence of the tortfeasor; they are still liable for the consequences 1/ https://t.co/ZvkHOczGpW— Asha Rangappa (@AshaRangappa_) May 29, 2020

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