NEW: Joe Biden during tonight's livestream: “There are probably anywhere from 10 to 15 percent of the people out there that are just not very good people." https://t.co/kb8LKRsxBm
— Reid J. Epstein (@reidepstein) June 5, 2020
This will lose him no more than 3 votes. Not 3 percent. 3 votes. https://t.co/Lb7fUn6MdQ
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) June 5, 2020
That Biden thinks 85% of his fellow citizens are good people is just another demonstration of him being one of the sunniest and most optimistic people in politics. https://t.co/eAtqetBicX
— Josh Barro (@jbarro) June 5, 2020
They really want it to be like “deplorables” or “guns and religion” but he didn’t make it partisan, so they had to go with the truncated version to make it sound saucy
— Adam Serwer?? (@AdamSerwer) June 5, 2020
Good. https://t.co/Y6GdtLZmUe
— The Public Option is good actually (@gdigitalzsmooth) June 4, 2020
— Alfonso Santillana (@alfysantillana) June 5, 2020
Worthwhile Democratic Initiative:
We cannot tolerate an American secret police.
I will be introducing legislation to require uniformed federal officers performing any domestic security duties to clearly identify what military branch or agency they represent. pic.twitter.com/2kaFAlWUow
— Chris Murphy (@ChrisMurphyCT) June 4, 2020
mrmoshpotato
Rescinded.
Some dancing instead.
Baud
The media updates its template to fit recent events.
WereBear
This is hardly a controversial statement. It starts by kindergarten, at least.
Baud
This one’s for Kay.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: OMG the disarray! Jeeves, be a good fellow, and fetch me my fainting couch!
Some dancing would do them some good!
NotMax
It’s an unnecessary statement to give. One might even say impolitic. The other side will find fodder for its ravenous maw, no need to hand it to them.
Nicole
I would have gone with 27%, but okay, Biden, we’ll go with your more optimistic numbers.
Baud
@NotMax:
Why? The other side attacks see people all the time and more directly. It helps rally their side.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud:
Haha, targeted number. And who said these had to be good paying jobs?
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone ???
Lacuna Synechdoche
via Anne Laurie @ Top:
Well 46% of the voters voted for Trump in 2016. Now maybe not all of them are bad people, but you gotta figure at least 2/3 – 5/6 of them are pretty awful. which would be about 30%-38%. So, Joe, 10-15% is probably a significant underestimate.
Hell, even the Rogers/Tyrone Crazification Factor suggests it should be at least 27%.
rikyrah
@Baud:
????
rikyrah
@Nicole:
I would say 40%, but I am unforgiving that way.
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
mrmoshpotato
@Nicole: 62,984,828 but adjusted for deaths.
TheMightyTrowel
Keep your eyes on Australia, jackals. Big BLM protests led by First Nations communities are planned for tomorrow in Syd and Melb. In Victoria, police have already announced that they’ll fine the organisers under Covid rules if too many people show up. In NSW, the cops took the organisers to court on public safety grounds and got a judge to declare any large gathering unlawful. They also announced today that spectators can go to rugby matches in NSW so public health is clearly the priority. Anyhow, protests will take place regardless and i can’t imagine the police will be restrained. It’s going to be a shit show.
NotMax
@Baud
All politics is dirty, Republican politics is filthy. I prefer not to incorporate their seamy playbook as an operational guide.
debbie
@WereBear:
It’s an opportunity for those who oppose Biden to beat him up about it. That’s the problem. Sometimes specificity is good.
Baud
@NotMax:
This isn’t seemy. It’s trying to reassure decent people that despite what they see in the media and social media, most people are good people, so don’t give up hope.
rikyrah
Here is one of that 10-15%?
mrmoshpotato
@TheMightyTrowel:
Lightly seasoned with sarcasm. Or has non-contact rugby been invented? Can the hooligans do their hooliganing 2m apart?
rikyrah
Baud
We should have had Hillary’s back on the “deplorables” dust up. Let’s not make the same mistake with an even more anodyne comment.
NotMax
Switching gears for a moment away from higher blood pressure.
Hm. Something with which to temporarily puncture tension and ease into a weekend. Let’s see… (*ruffles through random files*) …ah, here we go.
Person who shared this with me swears it is exactly as originally run.
debbie
@Baud:
Same old, same old in Ohio. This has been pervasive since the 1990s. In fact, saying half of the tax breaks/abatements have not delivered on their promises is far too low. It’s much closer to 90+%.
WereBear
@rikyrah: Mr WereBear burst out of the computer room yesterday with this news.
Proof that heedless irony does not kill. And that’s too bad.
rikyrah
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax:
I heard Russthuglicans fuck rats.
rikyrah
????
Baud
@rikyrah: He should issue an executive order.
rikyrah
NotMax
@mrmoshpotato
And not the high class rats, either. Primarily the skeevy ones.
rikyrah
rikyrah
????
mrmoshpotato
@rikyrah: Worth another watch. :)
Nicole
@rikyrah: Morning! How was the day back at the office yesterday?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@rikyrah:
I see people analyzing how this is like or unlike 1968. One huge difference is the omnipresence of cell phones. The sheer number of these videos is shaking white people who have never seen police violence up close.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I think most of us Dem voters did have HRC’s back on the “deplorables” thing; ’twas the media that made endless hay of it. Like everything else from the 2016 campaign, history has proved HRC was right; the MAGA hate rally people truly are awful.
I don’t know how we overcome the double standard. History suggests Biden is going to continue to say controversial shit. Perhaps since “authenticity” is an important part of his brand, he should be real about it.
So, apologize when he says something that really was a dumb thing to say (“you ain’t black”) and own it unapologetically when the “controversial” statement is true. Biden rightly apologized for the former, and he can explain what he means by the latter because it’s TRUE.
rikyrah
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: LMAO!
See my link at 1 too.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Agree. I hope he doesn’t apologize.
TheMightyTrowel
@mrmoshpotato: the rugby is 100% back on, but NSW is taking the additional step of allowing spectators which no other state is permitting.
NotMax
@Dorothy A. Winsor
re: 1968
The difference between parallels and asymptotes.
John S.
@Baud: Yup. Trump and his MAGAts routinely say far worse about more than half the country on a daily basis.
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: Oh no, definitely not.
They loves them some toxic waste rats.
Nicole
@Betty Cracker:
Absolutely- What I wouldn’t give to hear, “Well, take Tom Cotton, who wrote an op-ed saying he thinks the American military should be called out to invade American cities; possible open fire on and kill their fellow Americans. Somebody had to vote that guy into office, that’s all I’m saying.”
rikyrah
@Nicole:
The office was ok. I could be the only person on the elevator. They have changed- only 3 people on a elevator. That’s going to be fun at quitting time ?
I wiped down everything.
I gotta change masks. I need something not so confining.
I am inclined to walk around with wipes and wipe down anything that I am about to touch
Hardest part was going home. My commuter train wasn’t working.
I refuse to go on the CTA.
Had to take a LYFT home
Hopefully, by Monday, the train service will be restored.
rikyrah
prostratedragon
@WereBear:
Proof that heedless irony does not kill. And that’s too bad.
Indeed. Were it otherwise, a white cop might have been immediately struck down for killing a black man by taking a knee on his neck.
low-tech cyclist
I continue to NOT be proud to be a Democrat.
I don’t even know what the House – the only part of government that the Democrats actually control – is even DOING right now. Meanwhile, Trump does whatever he damn well pleases – has the DOD bring troops into DC and buzz protesters with helicopters, imports troops to DC from everywhere else, fences off a mammoth area around the White House to belong to him alone, steals postal shipments of COVID-19 masks that say “Don’t Kill Black People” – and new outrages pile up, one on top of another, while the Democrats think of how to respond to one of the outrages from several days ago.
Trump is totally inside the Democrats’ OODA loops.
Remember when Ron Suskind wrote:
This is happening right now, only here in America this time.
rikyrah
This rally in Nashville
debbie
@Betty Cracker:
Or come back out the next day and get specific about what he meant. Not apologize, but clarify.
zhena gogolia
@low-tech cyclist:
I saw it right on this here blog just a few minutes ago.
rikyrah
Kay
@Baud:
So gross:
15 thousand in property taxes for 3 commercial buildings is not a high property tax. So they got a complete waiver from taxes for 90% of their operation and they won’t even pay the 10% – the additional taxes on the increased value after improvements. Goes right to schools.
debbie
@rikyrah:
I’ve had good luck getting single-use masks here. I ordered on the Friday before Memorial Day and they showed up on the Tuesday after Memorial Day (regular shipping, USPS I believe).
rikyrah
@WereBear:
Think on this. Biden had a town hall with young people, and this is the best that the NYT could come up with ???
RSA
Right, but I don’t think this one is going anywhere. “Deplorables” is an easy shorthand reference for Hillary’s comment, one that Trump supporters could adopt for themselves, which gave it legs. They’re not going to call themselves “not very good people,” as accurate as that might be.
donnah
Oh, come on! Literally anything Biden says will be made to sound controversial by the opposition. He could state that grass is green and morons in the Republican camp would say he’s advocating pot sales. He’s the target and he will be accused of a million things, and they’ll be overhyped to the max.
One of my favorite pictures shows Hillary holding up a basket and the caption is, “In you go!”
mrmoshpotato
@rikyrah:
Ask Baud.
Also, ?Metra – the way to really, oh, the trains aren’t running?
NotMax
@Betty Cracker
I refuse to believe the entirety are irredeemable. Maybe the majority, maybe the vast majority. But peel away those we can, don’t dismiss them outright.
Somewhat sad to point out those don’t necessarily have to vote for US, they have to not vote for THEM.
rikyrah
Context about the Biden statement
trnc
@Lacuna Synechdoche:
It doesn’t cost a thing to claim more good people than there are.
Baud
@mrmoshpotato:
I’m not the mask expert.
Barbara
Biden is an optimist compared to me.
Baud
@rikyrah:
We’re not allowed to use the same language for racists as we are for billionaires.
John S.
@Betty Cracker: I disagree with the part about explaining. There are some things that are so self-evident and clear that they require no explanation. This is one of them.
Explaining in this context means you said something wrong. It’s an admission of wrongdoing. And as much as I despise Ronald Reagan, he had a point when he said “If you’re explaining, you’re losing.”
Baud
@NotMax:
Anyone who wants to be part of the 90% is welcome to join us.
Nicole
@rikyrah: I hear you on the anxiety over taking public transit. I’m comforted that they’re starting to think it’s not a major source of transmission (people don’t tend to talk together with strangers on the subway, and not many are on the train for a long time), but I don’t find it comforting enough to want to actually take the subway.
I’m glad it was an overall okay day, though. You’re right; the elevator can become a point of contention. Our apartment building has a sign up- one family allowed at a time (i.e., if you don’t live with the people, don’t get on the elevator) and my husband got into it with an overprivileged bro who pushed his way on yesterday and got mad when my husband told him to get off. A-hole doesn’t even live in our building, to make it worse; he’s somebody’s houseguest. I knew exactly who it was, though- I saw the douchecanoe wandering around the lobby without a mask on earlier.
John S.
@debbie: There’s nothing to clarify. We all know what he meant, and he’s right (and as many have said, probably underestimating). Let the conservatives and their lackeys in the media take to their fainting couches.
MJS
@debbie: I don’t think it even needs clarification. While the media may try to make it into something it’s not, there is not one person who doesn’t believe that statement to be true. It’s just a matter of who they believe the “bad” people are. Just as with the “deplorable” comment, if someone is going to use it as an excuse not to vote for Biden, they were never going to vote for him anyway.
trnc
Your question kind of answers itself. They passed something like 400 bills that won’t even get a hearing in the senate, so bills seem like a dead end. Whitmer testified before a House committee on Tuesday.
Also, don’t count on the news media covering what House members are doing. You have to go look for the stories.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: Oh, so you weren’t being serious?
??
rikyrah
trnc
@zhena gogolia: To be fair, they’re senators and low-tech was talking about the House, but I did find a couple of House action items for him/her.
Planetjanet
The video with that young man has brought tears to my eyes. I must share it. Thanks.
Baud
@mrmoshpotato: I forgot about. I’m not sure rikyrah will find that less confining.
@rikyrah: Agree. The videos have made all the difference this year.
I do wonder how things would have played out if we weren’t locked down for Covid and people still had to go to their regular jobs.
rikyrah
@Nicole:
I have resigned myself to taking a later train, once the service is back. I am not standing in any hallways with a lot of people at the end of the day.?
Betty Cracker
Deleted because trnc got there first at #72.
NotMax
@mrmoshpotato
Or Sirius, even.
/Snagglepuss
;)
Baud
Since we’re entertaining the subject
NotMax
Le sigh. Fix.
@mrmoshpotato
Or Sirius, even.
/Snagglepuss
;)
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: Maaaaasks. Oooof. Spaaaaaace!
rikyrah
gkoutnik
Reading Oscar Wilde’s “A Woman of No Importance” for a virtual performance later in the summer. At one point, one of the stereotyped, entitled, aristocratic white women says:
“Did he become angry with you, and say anything that was unkind or true?”
I think it’s incredible how the world shifted in the last weeks and showed us what Biden was angry about, and why the thing he said was true. The most carefully nuanced and liability-free way to say it? No. But he got angry, and told the truth.
Me? I want more of that. Canny electoral strategy? Obviously not. But I want more of that.
debbie
@rikyrah:
Then Joe needs to state that. Today.
Aziz, light!
@zhena gogolia: Anti-Democrat Democrats see only what they want to see.
NotMax
Mentioned this last night, may be worth a repetition as an FYI.
Prime streaming now showing listings in a category labeled Black History, Hardship & Hope above the Watch Next queue, which normally gets pride of place.
Also a prominent banner where there’s usually a promotional programming ad reading:
Black lives matter
Amazon stands in solidarity with the Black community
.
rikyrah
Betty Cracker
@gkoutnik: I really don’t know what constitutes a canny electoral strategy these days. I know the media has imposed different standards on Democrats and Republicans for my entire life. But it only works to the extent that the public is willing to be spoon-fed bogus narratives based on two wildly disparate standards.
Having a dumb, loud-mouthed bully not as an “unconventional” candidate who generates clicks and helps networks sell soap but as the wildly corrupt and disastrous POTUS has to have changed things, and not just for Republicans.
Zzyzx
I do think this election is going to be different from 2016 because there are real outrages this year. It’s harder to get angry over the stupid shit when it feels like the world is collapsing.
rikyrah
The Pale Scot
Buzzfeed got some pics
32 Pictures That Show What White Privilege Looks Like
zhena gogolia
@Zzyzx:
I hope and pray you’re right.
SFAW
@Betty Cracker:
But has it changed things for the better (vis-a-vis the media)? I’m not sure it has. The FactCheck (or whoever it is) tally of 18,000-plus lies etc is a good piece of data to have, but outside of that, how many media outlets refuse to call him out on his lying? Meanwhile, it seems most of them follow the Les Moonves “thought process” (i.e., bad for the country, but good for CBS).
Yes, there are some pundits from whose eyes the scales have fallen, but pundit disapproval is probably more than balanced by the willful ignorance of the outlet(s) where they opine.
Look, I want to believe that the media will start calling him a liar, or at least saying that his lies are lies, and that he’s trying to become a latter-day Hitler (or whomever), and that they’ll stop pretending “both sides are the same,” but their history does not encourage me.
Kay
The mask requirement for manufacturing workers here seems to be 100%. They’re ALL wearing them at work. I think that will increase acceptance and make it easier if states have to require them for other indoor activities. One of the courts I frequent requires them for entry – I’ve been wearing one in my home court anyway although it’s voluntary because the sheriff’s deputies who work security there requested it – I realized yesterday I’m already to the point where I have a few in my car, one in my work bag, and one in my purse :)
I think the masks becoming ordinary are our best shot at some level of compliance with infection control that people will actually comply with, longer term.
The Pale Scot
@The Pale Scot:
Clueless in the comments
So explaining you privilege is an insult? Who’s the snowflake?
Betty Cracker
@SFAW: My wording was unclear; I don’t mean things have changed for the Beltway media, necessarily. I agree they haven’t figured out how to cover a pathological lying bully. My hope is the PUBLIC won’t passively accept their lazy-ass narrative this time. Too much skin in the game.
rikyrah
Dupe1970
@Baud: I swear to God that Biden could be up 15 points, leading above the MoE in every battleground state, and Trump could be -20 in approval and just taken a dump on the White House lawn in front of the world press and the “liberal” media would still find a way to play Chicken Little.
Kay
I wonder, too, if we underestimated kids with the masks. I went to one of the first school sports practices yesterday- middle schoolers- and they seemed to be handling wearing masks without skipping a beat.
They’re usually better than than we think they are- capable of doing more than we think they can :)
Baud
@rikyrah:
Huh? Past job losses don’t have any relationship to jobs gained this cycle.
germy
In this clip, a black female police officer confronts a white male officer, after the male officer attacks a female protester.
TS (the original)
@TheMightyTrowel:
I assume you are talking about rugby league (NRL) – In my part of Australia rugby usually means rugby union.
There have been 2 incidents so far in relation to the games & the anti virus rules – I’m waiting for another week to see if there are any coronavirus related outcomes.
To me it all relates to money – more money in sport than in protests.
Kathleen
@Baud: Malicious Mad Libs.
Baud
@Dupe1970:
“Democrats worry about maintaining coalition as Republicans routed.”
Capri
The Biden thing reminds me of the Obama tire pressure scandal. Early in his first campaign he stated the fact that if you have the correct tire pressure your car is more energy efficient. The GOP acted like this was the biggest gaffe that ever was gaffed, and the media piled on. One headline from the time: “Obama inflates tire pressure claim”
Obama addressed it directly. I didn’t look up the exact quote, but he said the push back by the GOP made them look ignorant. And with that the whole thing died.
So I hope Biden does the same thing- he said nothing wrong, he should own it.
SFAW
@Betty Cracker:
OK, got it. I hope you’re right.
Kay
At this point I don’t even care about these conspiracy theories that are now mainstream on the Right- the specifics- because they’re all the same.” X did Y to harm conservatives and their political agenda”
That’s what all of them are about – how the universe is coordinating to defeat conservatives, silence them, hurt their feeelings, wah, wah, wah.
I want them to ask themselves how they ended up creating a movement that believes everything under the sun is about them. Covid 19? About conservatives. BLM? Really about conservatives. The church next to the White House? Exists for the use of conservatives as a photo op.
The self centeredness and ego of this is just off the fucking charts. It isn’t all about you. People act and things happen without conservative politics being at the center. No one gives a shit about your dumb political objectives. We’re busy.
Matt McIrvin
@WereBear: I object strongly to the idea that it’s anywhere near as low as 10 to 15 percent. But I guess Hillary Clinton got in trouble for suggesting it was about a quarter.
germy
Emerson College poll showed 13% believe Chauvin should not face charges.
So Biden was pretty accurate on the statistics.
And of course Maggie H. is trying to make a big thing out of the Biden quote. It’s what she does.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
“I misspoke, and I apologize. The only bad American is Fred. Everyone else is cool. But Fred… Christ, what an asshole.”
Matt McIrvin
…Jesus, it’s a gaffe that Biden thinks this country is at least 10% assholes? Who doesn’t believe that?
mrmoshpotato
@Matt McIrvin: I think Keith Olbermann was closer in saying that it was 100%.
Kay
They did it again yesterday with the Cotton campaign ad the NYTimes printed. No discussion, at all, of the fact that Cotton wants to sic soldiers on protesters. No, instead we must all talk about how Right wingers are being silenced.
That’s why they’re mad at the BLM movement. The country is talking about something other than them.
germy
@Kay: And wasn’t Cotton’s entire thesis based on his misunderstanding of the Constitution?
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: Well, yes. Just look at one of his racist, fascistic, pussy-grabbing, Soviet shitpile, mobster conman sons.
Fuck Fred.
Baud
@mrmoshpotato: Touche.
different-church-lady
@Nicole: I would have gone with 46%, and that’s lowballing it.
mrmoshpotato
@Kay:
Ok! We can talk about more than one topic at once.
Let’s talk about how the Rethuglican party has been a goddamned fucking pile of shit for 40+ years too!
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
I await the inevitable
on Twitter.
germy
He’s so incompetent, he held up the “wrong bible” and people noticed:
different-church-lady
@germy: Look, when you’re doing a bible smash-and-grab at a burned out church you don’t have time to be choosy about it.
SFAW
@germy:
Fixed.
artem1s
@Baud:
AMEN. Also her calling out the alt right. Remember how controversial it was to say that out loud in 2016? She put a name to systematic white supremacy movement and paid the price.
That video of Joe giving his flag pin away – T_T – dammit I hope that kid’s mom is right. Doesn’t look like Joe has an enthusiasm problem with those voters does it?
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Great point. No wonder Trump was able to take over the party and remake it in his image so seamlessly. It already reflected his moral bankruptcy and self-absorption. He’s the the whiny, self-pitying, greedy, spotlight-hogging character of the “movement” made flesh.
Sab
@Kay: I stopped by my job yesterday to drop off a finished project and the only person wearing a mask was the managing partner. Everyone else was scampering around maskless like always. They can hire themselves another tax person next year because I won’t be there.
Geminid
I thought Biden picked a good number. Low enough that most people won’t necessarily think he is talking about them. Some people will express outrage, but when you throw a rock into pack of hounds, the one that yelps is the one you hit.
Dave
@Betty Cracker: Go to war with the Biden you have not the over stylized and stage managed Biden you don’t actually want regardless is solid advice.
artem1s
@germy: probably found it in a hotel drawer somewhere.
SFAW
@germy:
And, dumbshit that I am, here I was thinking that it was the Resurrection which was The Big Thing. Oh, right, “A cardinal tenet,” not “THE cardinal tenet.
ETA: Glad to see that it’s the phrasing that’s important to those assholes. FSM forbid they actually follow Jesus’s beliefs and teaching.
cmorenc
@debbie:
Yeah, and then the media will portray it as Biden “walking back” his [gaffe] statement, and anyone who was faux-outraged or nervous about his original statement will still be faux-outraged or nervous about both Biden’s “explanation” AND his original statement he was supposedly [walking back] explaining, and as a bonus, they’ll play the “indecisiveness” and “looks weak” cards on Biden for the whole transaction.
So, no explanation by Biden needed on this, WHATEVER, period.
different-church-lady
@MJS: I mean, who goes through life not thinking that at least one out of every ten people they meet are assholes?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Kay: The emotional objection to masks strikes me as very citified or suburban. At least it must be mostly coming from people who’ve never worked with their hands. Mr DAW is working on a project with some other engineers he worked with in Iowa. They’re all Republicans. I bet all of them voted for Trump. And they all wear masks. They’re used to it from being in places where there’s welding, frex, or even on a tractor when a lot of dust is being kicked up.
Gin & Tonic
@artem1s: Right. The chances anyone in that family actually own a Bible, of any version, are zero. Kudos to whoever it was at that photo op who asked him “Is that *your* Bible?”
SFAW
@different-church-lady:
What’s bothersome is that I seem to be everyone’s ten-percenter.
different-church-lady
@The Pale Scot: part of my white privilege is being able to take an insult about being white without feeling any realistic threat or losing my shit over it.
rp
@SFAW: If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you’re the asshole.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@different-church-lady: people who have never: driven a car with at least two other cars on the road; used public transportation; been on a plane, especially since the overhead bin wars begun they have; been in a grocery store; watched a movie in a theatre, even before the advent of cell phones; had a job; had more than one sibling; gone through middle-school/junior high; worked retail; shopped retail in December; worked in a restaurant; eaten in a restaurant…. I may be missing one or two.
SFAW
@Gin & Tonic:
“It is! It was given to me by my friend, big guy named Gideon. He came to me, tears in his eyes, said ‘here, sir, you’re a much more godly person than I, so this should be yours.’ And he told me Jesus himself told him to do that. Met Gideon at the Trump Motel 6. “
different-church-lady
@SFAW: Public service you’re providing: if you’re the one the other nine you’re with are safe!
danielx
@Baud:
Well, of course.
SFAW
@different-church-lady:
Made it, Ma! Top of the world!
Dave
@artem1s: Doomed to be Cassandra. Or prematurely anti-fascist.
Sab
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Yes. My spouse has been insistent about wearing masks on dog walks for solidarity reasons. And suddenly my seasonal allergies aren’t bothering me like other years.
My sister had some facemasks sent by friends in China to our dad’s nurse’s aide. They are so much better than ours. Just cotton knit but so comfortable.
ETA: Why are we reinventing the wheel so ineptly. Other countries already knew how to do this. We used to be competent.
artem1s
@Nicole:
oooo! let me do one!
“Well, take Attorney General Bob Barr who ordered security forces to rough up American Citizens in the nation’s capital just so Donald Trump and his family could do a photo-op on church grounds. Someone had to appoint that guy and keeps looking the other way when he violates citizens constitutional rights. That’s all I’m saying”
different-church-lady
@Betty Cracker: Trump is only the symptom, not the desease.
different-church-lady
@Dorothy A. Winsor: It’s just Cleek’s Law in action. Democrats embraced masks first, so Republicans were obligated to oppose them. Everything else is over-analyzing.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@NotMax: Think the concept of “Karen the obnoxious customer” The other side will make up shit to be upset about. In fact trolling them is good because it triggers their rage and they act like drooling fools.
Barbara
@germy: Maggie H is the gossip girl of political coverage. That’s all she is.
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
We must be trolling them an awful lot.
Omnes Omnibus
Biden’s 10-15% statement doesn’t need explanation or a walk back. If we let ourselves get our knickers in a twist about an entirely non-controversial statement like that, then we are fucked. The Right and MSM want things like this to take hold (for varied reasons). The solution is simple; don’t take the bait. This wasn’t a gaffe. This wasn’t misspeaking. Don’t pretend it is.
danielx
@rp:
Hey, I live in Indiana. This happens to me frequently.
Gin & Tonic
Boy, you know what went down the memory hole about two nanoseconds after it appeared? The current prosecutor-general in Ukraine issuing the results of his audit of all prior investigations into Burisma, which found no wrongdoing of any kind on Hunter Biden’s part.
I guess Ryaboshapka is no longer on Giuliani’s Christmas card list.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic: What does that have to do with Tara Reade?
Subsole
@TheMightyTrowel:
I understand the AUS gov’t is pretry hardline conservative, but am not clear on the regional picture. What are the red/blue state equivalents? Like is NSW ruby red like Oklahoma while Queensland is blue like Illonois? How does it break down?
zhena gogolia
@Dave:
Perfect!
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Raise your hand if you believe this jobs thing….
Subsole
@debbie:
They don’t know how to do anything but beat us up. I’m tired of worrying about what they’re gonna do. We know what they’re gonna do – throw a tantrum on the flimsiest of pretexts and hope we cower.
I really like how Kay put it: it’s like a bank account. After the last decade, Conservatism’s credit is no good. They can screech, but we don’t owe them any consideration until they grow up a little.
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus: I think what Biden said was true in every sense except he low-balled the percentage of our fellow citizens who are shitheads. But yeah, saying 10-15% of Americans aren’t good people is by definition a controversial thing to say. I don’t think he should apologize either, but even though it’s self-evidently true that a minimum of 33,000,000 million or so of Americans suck, it’s a controversial thing to say, and it’s not buying into Republican framing to acknowledge that. It’s buying into reality, IMO. The only thing to discuss is how to handle the inevitable follow-up questions. “It’s self-evidently true” is one way of handling it.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Ah – there it is. Pence is crowing and yammering about a payroll tax cut.
That jobs number is a phantom.
Kay (not the front-pager)
Right? I mean, Trump is very forthright in saying that all Democrats are bad and evil, and even those Republicans who aren’t totally onboard with everything he does are “never Trumpers” and therefore bad and evil. So we’re supposed to be upset by this???
senyordave
It would have been a much better statement if Biden had just left it at “some people just are not good people”, or even better yet, “unfortunately, there are some bad people out there”. Don’t apologize, and Biden would be better off not doing much off the cuff stuff.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: oh, there’s no need to await it.
different-church-lady
Meanwhile, here’s how the WaPo is handling it:
Baud
Remember when Obama said “you didn’t build that,” and the GOP made it the theme of the 2012 convention that led to a sweeping Romney victory…
Leave Biden alone.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin: I’ll need to await someone reposting it here, since I’m not on twitter. :-)
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker: Something that is self-evidently true is not a controversial thing. I guess, if you stretched things a bit, it is controversial in the same way climate change is.
Subsole
@low-tech cyclist:
What would you like Congress to do? Because there ain’t much we can do with 1/2 of 1/3. Take that up with every asshole that ditched us in 16. Take it up with McConnel. Take it up with a media that cuts us off mid-speech to watch a bigot’s empty podium.
I know this is painful and scary and frustrating. And sometimes you gotta scream. But we have to be realistic. It is gonna be a hard road home. The worst thing we can do is have unrealistic expectations- like Pelosi is gonna save us singlehanded with a stern speech.
different-church-lady
OK, y’all are missing an obvious point: Clinton was talking about about Trump’s supporters specifically, and whether they were redeemable. They turned that to indignation which in turn rallied them to the polls.
Biden is talking about the general population. If you take offense at that, you’re self-selecting the identity.
gwangung
@Kay:
To be honest, I think it’s endemic to white culture. I see examples of this all the time in liberal folks, worrying about how BLM is going to affect them and the local political races.
BruceFromOhio
@mrmoshpotato: She is a national treasure.
Betty Cracker
@different-church-lady: Perfect illustration of the difference in how those papers cover US politics.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@senyordave:
I wish he talked like Obama, but four of our last six presidents when not carefully scripted negotiated the English language like a drunk manages ice skates.
different-church-lady
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: 13.3% unemployment is something to crow about?
Sab
Payroll tax cut. I am amazed Pence went there, but he isn’t bright. They have cut every other tax. Okay to cut Social Security benefits, but the Social Security tax will end up being the only thing keeping the government afloat. And it’s regressive. They will never even think about cutting it.
Subsole
@rikyrah: A lot of masks have come off these days.
Our task is to remember, and see that those who come after remember.
I don’t expect it will happen, but these people need to CRAWL to forgiveness when we eject Trumpism.
germy
Here’s a photo from 1905.
The Albany Armory:
https://www.shorpy.com/node/25649
And this reader comment:
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus: I wish that were true, but it’s self-evidently not.
Calouste
@Kay: Conservatives are like black holes: they’re really dense and everything revolves around them.
Subsole
@RSA:
I think the only reason it got so much mileage is because it’s a five dollar word. If she’d just said “rude” or “not very good” they still would have embraced it and gotten up into their habitual high-dudgeon, but it wouldn’t have had the same transgresdive appeal. It would have been the same tired whining about PCculture.
The Thin Black Duke
Biden’s statement is a nothingburger, but you guys can chew on it if you like. I don’t have the stomach for it.
BruceFromOhio
@Aziz, light!: This. “A man sees what he wants to see, and disregards the rest.”
(and still one of the best nyms ever, anywhere)
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
Remember when Republicans tut-tutted Trump for mimicking a handicapped journalist during a speech? Leadership and accountability we can all believe in.
L85NJGT
@NotMax:
Frank Serpico said something like 10% of squad rooms are straight arrows, 10% crooks, and the rest go with whoever holds sway.
germy
‘This Face Will Be The Last Thing You See Before You Die,’ Says Trump In Healing Address To Nation
Suzy
@rikyrah: I love Joe Biden to pieces. But he should avoid calling people “bad people”. Bad choice of words. Always create controversy.
Say “people who refuse to see the problem” , “people who have prejudices”, etc.
You can keep the authenticity, brutal honesty factor, and yet avoid political traps.
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker: Okay, then what is the controversy here? That we think he is low balling it? That some conservatives think he is talking about them (hint: he was)? We say we want a candidate who takes the fight to the GOP, but then, when he does so, we parse his words to death. What he said was fine. End of story.
germy
https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/if-war-correspondents-reported-on-the-american-protests-in-the-same-way-they-reported-on-protests-in-other-countries
Subsole
@Aziz, light!:
Ehhh. That might be a little harsh.
We are on year four of a daily national rape. People are gonna get angry and scared and frustrated. That hurt is gonna boil up, eventually. I try not to take it too personal if it’s coming from fellow passengers on my boat.
We are gonna be processing this pain a long, long time. It ain’t going away with Trump.
debbie
@cmorenc:
We’ll check back on this in the fall and see how it turns out.
The Thin Black Duke
@Omnes Omnibus: Thank you.
Subsole
@Baud: Is it bad that I actually am worried about that?
I fear we are gonna roll over and go home for the midterms and 2022 is gonna erase what little we won back.
JWR
CBS covered the first few minutes this morning of Trump doing a victory lap over the jobs report, but once they realized he was just making stuff up, repeating crap he’d heard on Fox News, they cut away. But boy, was Trump ever excited!
a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio
@Matt McIrvin: I think the best way for Biden to handle this, if asked about it, is to look at his interlocutor with a sincere expression and and say “You think I’m wrong? Do you think it’s worse than that? You don’t seem to have much faith in humanity!”
Let them be the one who have to struggle there.
Subsole
@Kay:
Those aren’t theories. They’re excuses.
Gassing Jews? Bad.
Gassing Jews because they rigged the world against you? Still bad, but if you shove your head far enough up your ass you can make yourself live with yourself.
Same dynamic.
We complicate things so we don’t have to look at them. So we don’t have to think. That’s what the Alex Jones Industrial Media Complex is – one big Conspiracy Costco full of excuses to NOT THINK. Just be afraid. Be always afraid.
Fox news, too, come to think of it.
Barbara
@different-church-lady: WaPo has moved beyond the standard framing. Looking out at the military occupation of one of the last remaining truly public spaces for engaging public protest, which is what Lafayette Square is, might do that to you.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@JWR: wow, CBS cut away from trump? I don’t watch much network news anymore, but my impression is of the Three Elders, CBS is the most Fox-like.
The Hoarse Whisperer says trump is manically retweeting every nice thing every Republican Senator has said about him for the last three years. Lisa Murkowski’s mealy-mouthed- prairie-dog-peeking-out-of-hole comments have him freaked out. And I saw that Susan Collins is going to busy regrouting her tub or something when trump comes to Maine.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I predict that by July 4th Fredo trump will be tweeting about Biden’s unpatriotic bad people comment and normals will not know what the fuck he’s talking about
JWR
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yes they did! It wasn’t a teleprompter speech, just him rambling on about the “Democrat” party raising your taxes, the evil Green New Deal, and so on. Just a bunch of his usual rambling nonsense. And as far as the Big 3, I never ascribe to any one of them what’s just as true of one of the others on any given day. They’re all equally bad, or occasionally decent, in my book.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Subsole:
not in this case, that commenter has been banging that emo drum like a dead horse for months
Feathers
@Suzy: Wishy washy language creates its own problem, and leads to people, especially young ones being alienated from politics and politicians. If you can’t even say cops boldly murdering people while the know they are being filmed “bad,” there is something seriously wrong.
JustRuss
I’m guessing the Times went with that headline because it hit close to home. Yes, NYT management, you’re part of that 10-15%.
L85NJGT
@Baud:
Maybe they should have handed individuals and households the money. Buy out lots, give them some walking money, and acknowledge the good old days are gone. Having surplus labor chained to a dead industry and region seems like the root problem, rather than disinvestment.
Emma from FL
No offense but the “let’s say ‘controversial’ things in non-controversial ways so we don’t raise any blisters” is about as failed political policy as it can be. It hasn’t made the opposition nicer, it has just made it more empowered. They see us cowering and push more and more. After all, we do retreat so well.
germy
You want controversial? Here’s controversial.
Gin & Tonic
@The Thin Black Duke: Nice.
J R in WV
This! Police and any uniformed officer needs to have a bright legible badge ID on their helmet so people can ID who is doing what, whenever.
Emma from FL
@germy: Jesus righteously pissed Christ!
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m not disagreeing with Biden; I’m disagreeing with your statement that it wasn’t a controversial thing to say. It was.
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker: And I am asking in what way was it controversial?
different-church-lady
@germy: There is no bottom.
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus: Maybe Mr. Dictionary can help:
Is Biden’s statement wrong? No. Is it “giving rise or likely to give rise to public disagreement”? Manifestly yes. This really shouldn’t be…controversial! ;-)
Brachiator
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Raises hand.
What I’ve seen so far suggests that the data is reliable.
Let me get on my medium size horse for a moment (the high horse is at the vets). From today’s news stories.
I think that people should pretty much ignore stock market reports and stories about GDP for a while. Things are too volatile.
Stories about employment numbers are reasonable, but everything about “unexpected” or “economists predicted” should be rigorously ignored.
We have not been here before. This is not a recession or Great Depression. The economy was deliberately shut down and no one knows what it means to try to recover. Worse, many economists are stuck in old ways of thinking and this is reflected in their stale predictions.
Now, are the employment numbers indicative of a positive trend? No. Too much of the economy is still shut down. And businesses and industries teetering on the edge of recovery or disaster may fall.
So, recovery will be uneven, but I would say that pent up consumer demand is a positive sign. Somewhat perversely, there are some news stories suggesting that the uber wealthy continued to make money during the lockdown. The rising stock market added to their wealth.
This offers room for raising taxes, increasing spending and possibly more stimulus if the Democrats can win big in November.
Also, I know that a lot of people are still hurting. Unfortunately, I don’t see much help coming from Trump and the GOP.
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker: Again, what is the disagreement? The “controversy” is over whether it should be said or not. The statement itself is not controversial.
bluefoot
@rikyrah: How did they know what was in the packages? The implications are chilling.
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
Wanna bet that’s exactly what they are? The real thing, the military, has commanding officers, and everyone else, who have been, or at least used to be, versed in the concept of not obeying non-lawful orders.
And there are just too many holes in this, these unidentified “militia” That work for the DOJ, we were always sailors, marines, grunts, not employees of the DOJ, a separate branch from the DOD, which we worked for.
WaterGirl
@rikyrah: I never thought I’d say it, because I voted for Pritzker while holding my nose, but he has been very good. At this point, I’m proud to call him my governor.
Thank god! Imagine if we still had the Republican cretin in these times.
taumaturgo
Democrats don’t seem to learn and always fall for the fake rightwing outrage trap. Move on, nothing to see here. Biden should 100% ignore the noise and go on to the next misspeaking incident (which will happen, Joe being Joe) the media predictively will latch on to the newest rightwing fake outrage and forget the previous incident. This will continue ad infinitum and ultimately will have zero effect on those who support or oppose Joe.
J R in WV
@germy:
Cotton doesn’t misunderstand the constitution at all. He DOESN’T BELIEVE in the CONSTITUTION !!
He doesn’t believe in the Constitution he swore to protect and defend. If he doesn’t adhere to his oath, shouldn’t he resign his office? Of course he should!! Will he? Of course not.
WaterGirl
@rikyrah: WTF? I hope the ACLU is already in court somewhere over this.
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus: I think we’re talking past each other, but I’ll give it one last try. Looks like we’re really talking about two controversies here and agreeing/disagreeing on their classification as controversial or non-controversial as well as the substance of each issue:
We disagree on the classification of #1 if you’re still insisting the statement itself isn’t controversial but agree on the substance, i.e., that Biden was correct. It sounds like we agree on both classification and substance on #2 as we both recognize it as a controversy and also agree that Biden doesn’t need to walk anything back.
The only thing I was taking issue with was your assertion at #153 that what Biden said wasn’t controversial.
WaterGirl
@The Pale Scot:
Is this the link you wanted?
https://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/white-privilege-black-lives-matter-protest
Subsole
@germy:
Words fail me.
I cannot figure if he is clueless or evil or both and I am frankly beyond caring.
GOP delenda est. Enough of this.
MisterForkbeard
@Betty Cracker: This thread is mostly dead so I don’t think this will get much discussion, but:
This doesn’t seem to be getting a lot of traction outside of the fox news sphere. Job numbers, new Trump fuckups and everything else have already pushed it out of the news a bit. I mean, FoxNews is full-on Trump Fluffing today with huge amounts of misleading informaation, and they’re not mentioning it at all.
I think the best course here is to just say “Biden said that? Okay. Sounds right.” and then move on.
WaterGirl
@The Thin Black Duke: I know I’ve said it before, but I really appreciate the way you stay focused and don’t let yourself get distracted with bullshit.
J R in WV
@Ruckus:
I learned somewhere, perhaps links from B J even, that these particular Nazis were employees of the federal Bureau of Prisons, and were swat teams used to put down prison riots.
So naturally, AG Barr thought of using them to put down peaceful demonstrations against police brutality, murder conducted on live video for the excitement of fellow Nazis.
AG Barr is a fascist, loves Nazis, will do whatever it takes to control peaceful people.
James E Powell
@taumaturgo:
It’s not the right-wing outrage that matters; it’s the press/media’s determination that the story of the day is always “What are Republicans complaining about now?” Our problem is that far too many Democrats have conditioned themselves to respond apologetically.
We should respond with an aggressive restatement of the claim: “Look, we have to face the fact that there are racists. We have to stop pretending it’s one or two people. We have to stop saying it’s okay.”
Then I’d attack the press/media.
db11
@Betty Cracker: Dead thread, but I this is the first time I’ve ever read anything from you (on any issue) that I think is manifestly the wrong take.
Can’t believe I’m agreeing with OO over you ;
Edited to concur with Mister Forkbeard’s take @ 225
Betty Cracker
@db11: It’s possible that I’m just wrong, of course — I often am. But in this case, I suspect it’s more of a failure to communicate. A pervasive subtext of every response seems to be that I’m finding fault with Biden’s statement or recommending a cleanup on aisle 2020 or something. That’s just not what I meant. At all. But as my old gran used to say, if one person calls you an ass, shake it off, but if several people call you an ass, maybe buy a saddle. Neigh! :-)
db11
@Betty Cracker: Thanks for the chuckle!
It’s maybe a semantic argument re: the definition of controversial. I don’t consider something actually controversial when it’s self-evidently true by empirical observation.
That the Republicans would attempt to gin up a fake controversy over the statement is a given, but anybody arguing in good faith would find it an unremarkable statement of fact (qualitatively), and likely too kind (quantitatively).
[In this case, if anything Joe was being waaay too generous towards at least an additional 12-17% of the population.]