The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff should never have participated in Trump’s hideously inappropriate Lafayette Park photo-op in the first place. But kudos to General Milley for publicly disowning it:
General Mark Milley apologizes for taking part in Trump’s Bible photo op outside the White House: “I should not have been there…It was a mistake.” pic.twitter.com/h8PIunEOCP
— Keith Boykin (@keithboykin) June 11, 2020
No response so far from Hair Furor. Fellow citizens, maybe we’ll get through this crisis after all, if only because the would-be “strong man” is so damn weak. It’s heartening to see some resilience in an institution. Probably too much to hope that it’ll stiffen spines at the DoJ…
Open thread.
schrodingers_cat
Good for Milley. I am glad that he apologized.
Get ready for cray cray and nasty immigration EOs
1. Suspension of the asylum program
2. Barring entry to all on long term visa holders (Work and student) and who are currently out of the country
3. Suspension of the OPT program for F-1 students where by international students can work in the United States for 1 to 3 years following graduation.
(This will hit universities particularly hard.)
trollhattan
Nice knowing ya, general.
dr. bloor
A pretty good moment of clarity for someone disoriented by the fog of propaganda.
laura
Tell you what, General Flynn would have proudly walked to the park in uniform…..if paid to do so by a foreign government.
rikyrah
Yeah, Milley’s out of there.
Roger Moore
@schrodingers_cat:
I expect them to go very hard against J-1s, too. They’re already going hard against researchers from China, and I expect them to spread that to all foreign researchers sooner rather than later.
WaterGirl
Seems like he should have known all of that BEFORE he participated in the awfulness of last week.
It’s a fine apology, but in my opinion he betrayed his principles and his military oath, so I am not feeling all warm and fuzzy about this.
What changed? Surely not the principles he has pledged his life to. He showed TERRIBLE judgment, and there should be consequences.
The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff should not be allowed to lose the plot entirely, and then just get to say “I’m sorry”.
Leto
I posted this yesterday, but the Senate just confirmed the first black military Chief of Staff. USAF Gen Charles Q. Brown, Jr, current commander of Pacific AF. Progress!
Gin & Tonic
10 days later, he finally realizes how bad it looked. I thought general officers were supposed to see things in advance, not in hindsight. Like I said, with this apology and $2.75 he can get a ride on the subway.
WaterGirl
@Leto: I hope that was in the works before just a couple of weeks ago.
I would love to hear your take on my take at #7. Am I wrong?
H.E.Wolf
Nasty indeed. :(
I am hopeful that the WA State Attorney General, Bob Ferguson, will file suit to block these, as he has successfully sued and blocked other anti-immigration EOs. He’s been successful so far in all of his lawsuits against this racist administration.
Also, congrats to your small town on its B.L.M. protest!
dr. bloor
@WaterGirl:
If it will make you feel better, he’s a dead man walking as far as his job is concerned.
Roger Moore
@rikyrah:
So be it, then. Too many people have decided to compromise their integrity so they can stay close to Trump in the hope of reining him in. They’ve uniformly failed. Instead, they’ve given undeserved credibility to the idea that our institutions would keep him in check. We need more people around him to put integrity first; they can do far more good by showing how awful he is than by trying to cover for him.
dmsilev
@schrodingers_cat: I know. There are a lot of people here who are not-so-quietly starting to panic. University admin has been lobbying Congress and agencies like DOE; the rumors I’ve heard are …not optimistic. I think at this point we’re in “do what we can to minimize the damage for the next six months and hope to hell he isn’t reelected” mode.
WaterGirl
@dr. bloor:
That depends. Is he dead man walking because Trump will fire him for making that statement and being “disloyal” to Trump? If so, then no, that makes me feel worse.
If you think he’s dead man walking because the military will turn its back on him and will negatively reward him for his actions, then yes, that makes me feel a little bit better.
zzyzx
Hey Milley, how about you speak out against Trump’s threat to invade my city because a few hundred people are cos-playing the beginning of Holy Grail on Capitol Hill and the rest of Seattle is just kind of collectively rolling our eyes and saying, “Have fun with your Autonomous Zone!”
Although I am amused that Portland tried to create their own AZ and failed yesterday. The world might be falling apart but Seattle can always mock Portland (and vice versa).
Leto
@WaterGirl: Yeah, positions like that usually take a while. By the time they get to the Senate hearing part, it’s usually a done deal.
Regarding #7, I agree, he should’ve known better. Simple as that. I know he was pilloried for going out in the streets in uniform, but it was the perp walk with Hair Furor that was the biggest issue. He allowed himself, and by extension the entire military, to be used for a political stunt and for that he needs to exit stage left. As I’ve always been told, it takes a lifetime to earn trust but just an instant to lose it.
Jinchi
@Roger Moore:
I’m pretty sure this quote defines Trump’s immigration policy.
They’ll try to exclude everybody. The policy is clear. Steve Miller is just polishing up the details.
Kay
I don’t really trust him not to attack protesters. I’m sorry but he allowed this to get really far before they got to the church and the stunt imploded. What if the bullshit with the bible had worked? Would they have used some of that ammunition they stockpiled? What if the church pastors hadn’t have blanketed media with accounts of being teargassed?
I feel like we were spared only because Ivanka Trump is very, very bad at photo ops. Talk about a thin reed we’re all clinging to.
We were lucky. Next time we might not be.
Baud
@H.E.Wolf: There will definitely be lawsuits.
Leto
@zzyzx:
He’s not going to do that. Look back to Gen McChrystal and Pres Obama, Maj. Gen. Harold N. Campbell and Pres Clinton, Army Gen. John Singlaub and Pres Carter, and most famously Truman and McArthur. It sets a dangerous precedent and they’re not going to do it. Once he leaves his post I think he should, but not while he’s actively in uniform. I think he should be called in front of the House and questioned there. Same with Mattis and Kelly. I think their situations are different because they retired, then were nominated for civilian positions. You can’t have it both ways, assholes.
zzyzx
@Leto:
OK that’s fair. Still though, using the military on civilians crosses a line and the only thing saving us is that Trump is too lazy to actually do the work.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: THIS. It’s way too much of a stretch for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to claim that he has just now “learned” about “situational awareness.” I can muster at most a grudging cheer-and-a-half for his after-the-fact ass-covering — it’s better than saying nothing.
Gin & Tonic
@Jinchi: Not feeling sanguine here about my daughter-in-law’s green card application.
Exregis
The lengthy time between the act and the apology leads me to believe that he has been getting hell from current and former military and finally relented. Because current military — by rule — cannot disparage their commander-in-chief, retired military have been battling to remind all of us that the military should not be used (blatantly) politically by the federal government.
A post without what’s his name. Feels good.
Roger Moore
@Jinchi:
I don’t think that’s actually Trump’s policy. He only wants to say “go back to where you came from” to Those People. He’d be perfectly happy to allow more immigration from non-shithole countries like the UK and Sweden.
Leto
@zzyzx: agreed. I don’t know what legislation needs to be put in place post Trumpov, because I fear the next Trumpov will simply ignore it like the current shit pile has done with so much law.
Roger Moore
@Leto:
I agree. It is as wrong for an active service military leader to publicly oppose what the President is saying as it is to publicly back it. Both are overstepping the bounds of civilian control over the military. What he needs to be doing is privately telling Trump that he isn’t going to follow an illegal order. And if he is given that illegal order, he needs to stick to his guns, refuse to follow it, and resign and go public if necessary to stop it.
Exregis
One thing we can depend on is Republican hypocrisy. Impeach Clinton for lying about sex. Free Flynn for lying about treason.
The perpetual see-saw: sex/treason, treason/sex, … .
A Ghost to Most
@Leto: The military just gave a (very late) message that they are not Bunker Boi’s plaything. Folks should give them space to prove it.
Brachiator
This guy should have known his duty from the beginning. But okay, he disowned his decision.
Problem is, Trump keeps pushing. One day he may demand that his people do something horrible that cannot be walked back.
This is who Trump is. His resentment and insecurity cannot be assuaged by the power of the presidency. He’s got that itchy need to dominate someone, to humiliate anyone who defies him or whose behavior displeases him. And he always needs a lackey to pull the trigger or to stand beside him.
rp
He shouldn’t have agreed to it in the first place, but this does feel like a pretty big deal. It’s as close as an active member of the military can come to disagreeing with and calling out the President.
Aleta
The tweet cut off his full sentence: “It was a mistake that I learned from.”
He needs to tell us exactly what he learned. (To mistrust Trump and Co. in every direction, I hope.) And what he believes he should have done in that situation. Then tell us how he’s going to handle the pickle he is in, so that he will now serve the country instead of the lying manipulative men who want to use our military as a threat to back their desires for infinite power. Walking out of the WH with them on a ‘misunderstanding’ is the least of the problem.
zhena gogolia
Man, this guy went to Princeton.
Jinchi
@Roger Moore: He’s definitely got a sliding scale, but it’s pretty clear that he’d be perfectly happy to shut it all down, and only allow exceptions with his own personal approval.
zzyzx
@Leto: I mean I’m joking about it and stuff, but I live like 3 miles from the CHAZ and in the Before Times would regularly go there to eat and my wife went to school at SCCC for a year, so it scares me a bit.
Aleta
The Post reports that Esper and Milley, after missing the committee’s deadline to respond in writing to questions from the House Armed Services Committee, have sent them a letter.
HalfAssedHomesteader
Not a perception, a fact.
Jinchi
He’s already halted green cards, hasn’t he? In fact, I’d read that he won’t even allow current green card holders to return to the U.S. if they were caught overseas when coronavirus hit.
I’m not sure how the process works. Will the application still be in the system in January? Biden will likely be rescinding a lot of executive orders on day one.
kindness
I saw an article elsewere highlighting a bunch of tweets from the howler monkeys from right wing media and they are ready to toss the good General overboard for his insolence. I have to wonder what country they grew up loving? It sure ain’t the one I did.
sdhays
@Aleta: I agree. He displayed horrible judgement for someone in his position, and under other circumstances, he should resign for it. But MAYBE he actually has learned from it and is developing a strategy for dealing with other inappropriate demands from his CinC.
Ugh. Writing that made me feel naive. But here’s hoping.
LuciaMia
Another one whos seeing the writing on the wall come November and is trying to get into Heaven.
Gin & Tonic
@Jinchi: My understanding is that consular processing of all types has been suspended for some time. Her application is in the system, but at this point your guess is as good as mine. She and my son are, unfortunately, out of the country.
Calouste
@kindness:
The CSA?
Villago Delenda Est
The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is not in any chain of command.
scav
Not at all sure that this is evidence of anything but — slightly better than others who participated in that little waddle parade — hindsight and reading the reaction.
Hoodie
@Aleta: I recall an interview in which Jeh Johnson said in effect that Milley was not in charge because he’s only in charge of the JCS. Milley is headed to retirement, he serves at the discretion of the President and Hair Furor will go ballistic at this. So, yes, he should have known better, but he did have the decency to publicly admit it was wrong instead of remaining or just slinking off to the golf course and various corporate sinecures.
Poe Larity
Who is Donald going to trust? Perhaps we will see a battlefield commission for Jared. He might look good in a Hugo Boss uniform.
Spanky
Every one that Trump has shitcanned has been replaced by someone markedly worse, or not at all (“acting!”). So no, I don’t want Milley to go. Things are already going to get worse.
James E Powell
@WaterGirl:
That’s my question, too. I can’t imagine, but there are people in this community who have knowledge and insights into that world. I’d like to hear their thoughts.
What had to happen to motivate this guy not only to realize his error but to decide he had to say so out loud? It’s not like he has a superior who is making him do it.
Brachiator
@sdhays:
Ultimately, Trump will install people who are willing to do whatever he wants.
C Stars
I’m glad that some top brass are finally feeling embarrassed about acting as Trump’s bootlickers. A good sign, I think.
I have a random open-thread question, and I hope it’s not too obnoxious to just drop it in after not posting for the last few months (although I have a pretty good excuse for that…)
I’m wondering what other parents are doing with regard to the “opening up” in the face of virus surges in several states. Here in the Bay Area it seems that summer camps are running (albeit with some new regulations) and people seem to be ready to allow their school-age kids socialize again pretty freely with one another. My spouse and I have been trying to divide our time between working and keeping the kids occupied all day, and doing neither terribly successfully. And our kids, of course, miss playing with other kids terribly. But the risk of sending the kids to summer camp seems huge, especially as infections are rising in our county. I’m curious what the cost/benefit analysis looks like in your household, and if anyone statistically-minded (Martin?) has any advice in this situation.
LongHairedWeirdo
I hate to be all “you’re nowhere near cynical enough” but, remember, the DOJ decided that Trump can take bribes, as long as they’re laundered through his business holdings. (I don’t think *they* used the word “laundered”, but that is precisely what they decided, de facto.)
They need more than spine; they need to root out corruption as well. Crazy world, where the President can call the DOJ corrupt because they are investigating him, when, in fact, the true corruption is invariably where they *aren’t* investigating him, but should be.
Oh, and this is your daily reminder that the entire GOP congressional caucus is part of the gaslighting of the nation; even those who aren’t vocal in their support are failing to be vocal about the corruption and lies. Remember that hilarious Republican saying something like “people will see (our investigations are) not partisan when they see us hold a President of our own party to account”?
Omnes Omnibus
@James E Powell: He fucked up. He heard from his retired peers that he fucked up. The grapevine told him that the consensus of those below him was that he fucked up. Sometimes the only way you can retain any credibility after fucking up is to own up to it. This is one of those times.
Mary G
@schrodingers_cat: This is so stupid. They’re going to use COVID19 as an excuse when we have botched it worse than any other country. It is infuriating.
Wapiti
@James E Powell: It’s part of the culture in the modern US military to accept responsibility if one makes the wrong decision.
Yeah, at high levels it doesn’t always work that way, but it’s supposed to. It was a bad move on General Milley’s part, and the responsibility for the decision is wholly his. It’s a positive example on his part to accept responsibility for the decision.
WaterGirl
@Leto:
isn’t that the truth!
Wapiti
@Poe Larity: They already installed Reince Priebus in the Naval Reserves. Give the man a couple of promotions. He’s tanned, rested, and ready.
WaterGirl
@C Stars:
In champaign IL where I live, the summer camps are not open this year. I believe the Air Force has cancelled their summer camps for AF kids this year, throughout the US and overseas.
I know that rikyrah asked for thoughts from parents on a thread last night, and I saw her announce today that Peanut would not be going to summer camp this year. I do not know what happened in between.
That is the sum total of everything I know. :-)
Brachiator
@C Stars:
I’m not a parent, but I think that a getting ready for summer and getting ready for school thread would be very good.
Questions about camps have come up and a couple of people have deep knowledge about the topic.
artem1s
@Aleta:
don’t get caught on camera
hope that someone like Barr is around to take the blame
hide wherever Pence was when he gets the call to ‘take a walk’ with Dump?
C Stars
@WaterGirl: Thank you! I will look for that thread.
WaterGirl
@Brachiator:
@C Stars:
I will try to put up a thread on that tonight.I put a post up now, since things are quiet today.C Stars
@Brachiator: I agree about that as a thread topic–I’d love to read BJ opinions on this because I’m feeling a bit lost. I’ve started organizing some potential homeschooling resources with some other parents in my community because we are all expecting that school will be limited in the fall. But people are all over the place on summer camp. Some folks I would expect would be more cautious are sending their kids out into the world eagerly because they’ve just had quite enough with the parenting/working shell game. I’m not quite there yet…I’d rather my kids be lonely for another few months than lose a parent..
ETA @WaterGirl: I just saw your comment–Gracias! I will keep an eye out.
gratuitous
I suspect that it is very wrong of me to wonder if Gen. Milley would have accepted this mea culpa from a similarly-situated Maj. Milley?
Roger Moore
@C Stars:
Letting your kids socialize is probably a bigger risk to you than it is to them. Children seem to be somewhat less likely to get sick with COVID-19 than adults and much, much less likely to get severely ill. For example, in New York City, out of over 20,000 deaths, only 14 have been in people younger than 18. The bigger risk is probably of you catching it from them.
Noskilz
Better late than never, but also something that should have never happened to begin with.
Serious question, though, while this means Dolt45 is probably going to want to replace him, who would he replace him with? It’s not going to be an attractive gig for anyone with two brain cells to rub together.
Redshift
@dmsilev:
I think the whole world has been in that mode for a while.
C Stars
@Roger Moore: Exactly; that’s what I’m worried about. We’re in our mid 40s and pretty healthy, but who knows. I also don’t want to contribute to community spread in general.
WaterGirl
@C Stars: Summer camp post is up. I figured this is a good time since it’s kind of quiet this afternoon.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
Milley is desperately trying to save his job. He knows he’ll be fired in January.
zzyzx
Oh and as though things weren’t stressful enough today in Seattle, a local TV station decided it would be a good day to test their tsunami alert system and they had a Tsunami Warning banner on their webpage.
patrick II
@schrodingers_cat:
This one is particulary dumb. They send us some of their best students, then allow them to work for a few years. It has been how we steal their best young minds. Trump, in addtion to being a racist asshole, is afraid that, if allowed to stay, they will steal American Secrets. I’m sure that happens, but it is a terrible trade-off not to educate and use the best young minds from around the world.
Mike in Pasadena
The military has not been apolitical for a long time. That ship sailed, general.
bluehill
@Brachiator:
I think this is the dilemma for all the people working for Trump who still respect the oath that they took. They are walking a line between keeping Trump in check, obeying their CiC, and not getting replaced. We’ve already seen what happens when you get a smart, but unprincipled person in charge. I think the military has had some near misses, but I’m guessing there are some senior military officers that would do Trump’s bidding. I think I would prefer Milley to that.
Omnes Omnibus
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: The best that Milley could hope for is to continue for the remainder of his four year term.
Marcopolo
Has anyone mentioned (do folks here remember) that Milley was in his combat fatigues when he joined that awful photo op? After coming from a meeting in the WH followed by Trump’s wacko “I am law and order” speech. A meeting where the Chair of the Joint Chiefs typically (which means always) wears his dress uniform. He knew what he was doing, he planned to take part in it including wearing the combat duds, and this is all post-blow up ass covering.
Let’s elect Biden in November and hopefully kiss Milley’s ass goodbye next January.
MisterForkbeard
It’s good that they did this and apologized. But they also pushed the national guard and other escalations, and they did it to… stop Trump from insisting on order the Army into battle with the protesters.
They knew what they’re doing. And I know it was a hard burden. But this resilient institution bent enormously in a way they knew was inapprorpriate. Trump is continuing to distort them and everyone else around him, and they’ll fail too if he keeps this up.
sdhays
@Marcopolo: That’s a good point. I had forgotten that.
gwangung
@patrick II:
Because at least half of them stay forever and become Americans.
Folks who aren’t impressed by that argument tend to think ethnicity determines loyalty…which is more than a little bit racist.
balconesfault
@zhena gogolia: Yep – he was on the Hockey Team … I ran track during the same time period.
A lot of us were angsting over the last week after the Lafayette Square debacle. He did us proud today.
“Princeton in our Nation’s Service”
bluehill
Given my cursory knowledge of the constitution, the military is under civilian control and I don’t know what provisions there are for the military to disobey orders. Whatever those are, I would imagine that they are not very clear. I think the founders expected congress and the courts to check the president in check not the military. Unfortunately, the Senate hasn’t done its job. We’ll see about the courts or specifically SCOTUS does.
Cacti
Since it’s an open thread:
Starbucks corporate sends out company memo banning employees wearing anything in support of “Black Lives Matter”.
Got that, black employees of Starbucks. Saying your life matters is too dangerous for your employer to support.
James E Powell
@gwangung:
Exactly. The bigots will never regard them as Real Americans® and will always believe they are “stealing our jobs.” Our jobs.
dr. bloor
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: He’s going to piss off his current boss, who values personal loyalty over anything else, because he’s afraid he’ll get canned by the next one?
MisterForkbeard
@Cacti: I’m sort of sympathetic to this request even though it’s massively douchey to do.
If your job wants you to avoid making political statements while you’re literally in uniform and representing the company, that feels legit to me.
Of course, the RIGHT thing to do is to say “we only allow this for certain, pre-approved messages and themes, of which Black Lives Matter is one” and then drop it.
MisterForkbeard
@dr. bloor: I’ve seen speculation that these military leaders are worried about more than being fired in January.
If it comes out that they were enthusiastically pushing military action on citizens when it wasn’t warranted at all, they might even face a dishonorable discharge or other actions beyond just getting let go.
e julius drivingstorm
I wonder how much we can trust our top brass to be knowledgable enough to disobey an unlawful order from Trump in case he wants to pull some kind of unwarranted military October surprise.
Cacti
@MisterForkbeard: Except, Starbucks allows employees to wear LGBTQ pins during pride month.
O. Felix Culpa
@balconesfault: “in the nation’s service and the service of humanity.”
I didn’t know that Milley was a Tiger. He didn’t cover himself in glory with the publicity stunt (and I don’t believe for a minute that he thought they were going to inspect a damaged latrine), but good on him for owning his mistake.
WaterGirl
@Cacti: Maybe black lives can matter at Starbucks for one month a year? //
smintheus
@Kay: I agree, the US military was too damn close to starting a fascistic crackdown on the public. The fact that Milley went along with it up to that point and beyond is bad enough. Then he made various implausible excuses. And only then did he finally admit what the rest of the world had recognized instantly.
sgrAstar
Just want to mention Dexter Filkins’ new piece in the New Yorker- he says Milley is very much part of Pompeo’s orbit, along with Esper. Fillins describes Milley as an overly ambitious careerist who is not well-liked/respected at the Pentagon.
?
Matt McIrvin
What’s going to happen to him will likely un-stiffen the spines.
Trump probably has already attempted to use the military in a coup. He’ll try his damndest to purge its ranks until he gets down to someone who will go along.
Matt McIrvin
@kindness: They love a White America that exists only in their minds.
Bill Arnold
@schrodingers_cat:
This will also hit industry R&D hard.
dirge
@MisterForkbeard: If your job wants you to avoid making political statements while you’re literally in uniform and representing the company, that feels legit to me.
But it’s not possible to avoid the subject, ever, and especially now. The suppression of political statements is a political statement, in favor of the status quo.
O. Felix Culpa
@Bill Arnold:
That’s what’s so damn stupid about these anti-immigrant measures. Leaving pesky issues of justice, fairness, and other ideals aside, it hurts us economically. It hurts the great Republican god of Business. Clearly hatred animates Trump and his henchmen EVEN MORE than greed.
JAFD
In other news, “Welcome to New Jersey / Don’t Be A Knucklehead” t-shirts are now available at
https://nj-dems-store.myshopify.com/?emci=b64217f5-f3ab-ea11-9b05-00155d039e74&emdi=94ceecd6-1aac-ea11-9b05-00155d039e74&ceid=3045421
Thanks !
dirge
@James E Powell: The bigots will never regard them as Real Americans® and will always believe they are “stealing our jobs.” Our jobs.
Because they think that being American is something they have, so they must police who is American to preserve enough America for themselves.
We think that making America is something we do, so the more people doing that, the more America we’ll have to share.
jonas
@C Stars: Our summer camp in the Adirondacks just canceled. Disappointed, but understandable. How can you have a real summer camp experience — swimming, roasting s’mores, sleeping in bunks, kayaking with a buddy — wearing masks and standing apart from everyone? You *could*, but it would suck. What would be the point?
Ruckus
@patrick II:
murcans are the smartest!
Ruckus
@Marcopolo:
Good point. I wondered what he was doing, it’s normally dress for high tea at the WH.
debbie
@trollhattan:
Exactly. He ought to avoid the abuse that’s heading his way and just retire.