Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

There is one struggling party in US right now, and it’s not the Democrats.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Every day Vance writes another chapter in the book called “Worst VP Pick Ever”.

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

I really should read my own blog.

Bogus polls are all they’ve got left. Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls a year from now.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

The arc of the moral universe doesn’t bend itself. it’s up to us.

Fight them, without becoming them!

Democrats are back in array!

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Always Time to Do Things Right the Second Time Around

Always Time to Do Things Right the Second Time Around

by | 207 Comments

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So we’ve found what it takes for a Trumper to de-Trumpify: an absolute wildfire of death:

AUSTIN – Governor Greg Abbott today issued an Executive Order requiring all Texans to wear a face covering over the nose and mouth in public spaces in counties with 20 or more positive COVID-19 cases, with few exceptions. The Governor also issued a proclamation giving mayors and county judges the ability to impose restrictions on some outdoor gatherings of over 10 people, and making it mandatory that, with certain exceptions, people cannot be in groups larger than ten and must maintain six feet of social distancing from others.

Abbott, of course, is the one who earlier ordered that mayors and judges could not require masks.

Trump is kinda-sorta saying masks are OK, but if Abbott runs again, even in kinda-red, probably-purple Texas, if there’s any justice left in the universe, this should destroy him.

Speaking of dumb fucks, shot:

Chaser:

Cain attended Trump’s Tulsa super-spreader event, unmasked, of course..

Reader Interactions

207Comments

  1. 1.

    joel hanes

    What it took, because Abbot is a coward and lickspittle, was cover from Pence wearing a mask and saying people should mask, Hannity saying masking is good, and the orange asshole admitting that masks might be useful, even if he won’t wear one in public.

    So once he didn’t have to cross His Orangeness or minions, Abbot could do the right thing.

  2. 2.

    Patricia Kayden

    Ditto.

    Trump just complained that his life was so much better before he became President. So was mine.— Deacon Blues (@DeaconBlues0) July 2, 2020

  3. 3.

    Jeffro

    Noem makes me worry that I was aiming too low when proposing that any future presidents have completed a full term as Governor or Senator before filing to run for president.

    Maybe there needs to be an IQ test as well.  A shoe-tying test.  SOMEthing.

  6. 6.

    Jeffro

    @Leto:the Faux robots have started saying positive things about masks too.

    Well of course they have!  It was their idea all along, don’t you remember?  It was the libtards/BLM terrorists/”Pocahontas” who tried to tell good, decent, hardworking Americans to skip the masks.

    Just watch…

  7. 7.

    Mai naem mobile

    Hope for Herman Cain that he has 999 lives. He must have a ghost twitterer and that ghost twitterer is an idiot.

  8. 8.

    Punchy

    One day in the distant future, when kids struggle to understand just how dysfunctional the Trump experience was, those 2 Cain tweets placed side-by-side will suffice to get the yoots to understand.  The only greater kicker would tomorrows announcement that’s he’s passed on account of COVID….

  10. 10.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @joel hanes:

    What pisses me off is Trump et al are now saying this….without ANY mention of the previous months they downplayed wearing masks! They want to have their cake and eat it too. The unspoken implication is that they were always for wearing masks

  12. 12.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Jeffro: So Lincoln, Grant, TR, and Ike (off the top of my head) wouldn’t qualify, but Rand Paul and Scott Walker would?  That seems like a good rule.

  14. 14.

    West of the Rockies

    @Mai naem mobile:

    I just looked at his account to see if he was getting any, “Hey, you believe Covid is serious now?” comments.  Looks like he doesn’t allow that.  It’s nothing but super stupid RWNJ stuff.  Coward.

  16. 16.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Jeffro:

    She’s so stridently pro-Trump. She’s quickly becoming the most hated Republican for me

  21. 21.

    Delk

    Cain was tweeting from Tulsa about how great it was to meet members of Black Voices for Trump.

  24. 24.

    hells littlest angel

    Thanks to the quick action of Republican governors, we might keep the death toll down to a mere quarter of a million!

  27. 27.

    hueyplong

    @Mai naem mobile: Hypothetically, if Cain were to meet his maker* in the near future, I’ll bet any jackal that GOPers push the idea that he had some undisclosed prior condition and his death should therefore not be attributed to COVID.

    I might even give odds.

    And yes, this is a step beyond the current GOPer argument that Cain has gone many places, it wasn’t necessarily contracted in AZ, Instant Karma isn’t a thing, yada, yada, yada.

    P.S. If God were to pick out a MF to make a point about this, it wouldn’t be Cain, it would be Texas’ Lt Gov, who appears to be one of the few who, instead of kissing Trump’s ample ass, insists on out-trumping Trump and demanding that Trump pay homage to him as the biggest asshole on planet Earth.

     

     

    * He’d have some splainin’ to do.

  29. 29.

    Mary G

    @Jeffro: It will be the classic abuser “You made me hit you” situation. “We would’ve worn masks all along if liberals hadn’t made this a political issue and the pointed and laughed at us from the coasts.” Just like they blame Obama for dividing the country by race instead of their unwritten rules of white supremacy being exposed by his election.

  30. 30.

    Sab

    I will admit that now I almost attack the maskless at the grocery. I used to respect the six feet. No more. ” You want to go down that aisle and I want to go down that aisle, you old WMF?  I am faster than you and more angry. Give way or be rammed.”  So far it has worked out.

  31. 31.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Jeffro:

    Noem makes me worry that I was aiming too low when proposing that any future presidents have completed a full term as Governor or Senator before filing to run for president.

    Maybe there needs to be an IQ test as well.  A shoe-tying test.  SOMEthing.

    Not being a Soviet shitpile or mobster or conman would be a good test.

    Also, yes, suggestive text, not being a slapdick would be a good test too.

  36. 36.

    Gravenstone

    Speaking of going around a second time, just saw a headline that the Feds are opening a new pandemic office. Shame about them closing down the first one, since it had the ‘taint’ of Obama on it. Fucking idiots.

  40. 40.

    Martin

    So, any theories of Maxwell being aware of the arrest appear to be incorrect. Reports are that she’s been moving around the US under different names, phone numbers, emails, bank accounts and when the SDNY saw her land in NH, they decided to grab her.

    Sounds like her atty will claim that she’s immune to prosecution because of the SDFL plea deal, so we’ll see how that goes. She faces 35+ years, so we may find out how much faith she has in higher powers coming to her rescue.

  42. 42.

    Nora

    At the very least, you shouldn’t be able to run for President until you have taken and passed a basic citizenship test. That would have spared us from Trump.

  44. 44.

    hueyplong

    @Martin: The evasive action might lead an outside observer to suspect that she isn’t 100% confident about the effect of her prior plea deal.

  46. 46.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Nora: “You wrote ‘I AM TREMENDOUS BIGLY AT EVERYTHING, YOU LOSERS!’ for every question on a multiple choice test.”

  47. 47.

    jonas

    @Gravenstone:the Feds are opening a new pandemic office.

    Sure to be staffed with the same, highly-qualified scientists that Obama’s was, and not at all a bunch of low-rent hacks with profit motives or anything.

  50. 50.

    Gravenstone

    @Sab: I ducked into the local Home Despot after work to look at mowers. I was the only masked face I saw in the barely 2 minutes I was inside. This is my shocked face. Realized this was likely to be an uphill slog when the fucking pharmacy staff at Walgreens a couple days prior all had their masks below their noses. Idjits one and all.

  51. 51.

    burnspbesq

    @joel hanes: 

    Any move Abbott takes toward doing the right thing, however small or tentative, is bitterly and vociferously resisted by the crackpot right, and increases the likelihood of his being primaried in 2022.

    Yes, he should have done this six weeks ago. But give appropriate recognition to the fact that he’s in a tough spot.

  53. 53.

    Another Scott

    @burnspbesq: Hmm…  Tough spot?

    “Is it worse than death??” – Cuomo.

    Abbott ran for the office.  He should have the courage to do the job.  If not, he should resign.  Thousands of Texans shouldn’t have to be hospitalized or die because he’s unwilling to do what’s sensible and right.

    Grrr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  54. 54.

    John S.

    Wow, I’ve never heard of karma striking within 24 hours, but here we are.

    I guess we can call it the Cain Rules.

  55. 55.

    narya

    Friend got his vehicle fixed in WI (Milwaukee) on Monday: NO ONE at the dealership was masked. (At the first opportunity, wiped down the vehicle, and kept mask & gloves on til that could happen.) Today, went to the grocery store in Skokie (I think) and EVERYONE, staff and customers, was masked. The mind, it boggles.

  57. 57.

    Roger Moore

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Neither did Obama.  Nixon didn’t serve a full term as a senator before becoming VP, which has the same requirements as president.  Hoover had never served in an elected office before becoming President.  And there were a bunch of former generals in the 19th Century who used that as a stepping stone to the Presidency without serving a full term as governor or senator: Washington, Jackson, WH Harrison, Taylor, Grant (already mentioned), and Garfield.

  60. 60.

    Roger Moore

    @Nora:

    I would be willing to accept that anyone running for President should have served in some important government office.  I would be willing to include being elected to a statewide office (e.g. governor, attorney general, etc.), serving in either house of Congress, holding a cabinet post, or reaching flag rank in a uniformed service.  I could probably be convinced to allow a few other significant kinds of government service count.  But the main thing is that we shouldn’t have someone who has no idea at all what the government is like from the inside.

  61. 61.

    joel hanes

    @burnspbesq:

    So the price of his chance at a second term is the preventable deaths of thousands of Texans and the health of tens of thousands more Texans destroyed.

    Somehow that doesn’t look like a defense to me; that looks like an indictment.

  62. 62.

    Brachiator

    Is there an editorial cartoon somewhere out there with the faces on Mount Rushmore all wearing masks?

    If not, there should be.

  65. 65.

    Jinchi

    @hueyplong: I’ll bet any jackal that GOPers push the idea that he had some undisclosed prior condition

    I think the Republican approved line is “He had a good life.”

  67. 67.

    joel hanes

    @Roger Moore:

    I would be willing to accept that anyone running for President should have served in some important government office.

    This rule would have estopped

    Trump
    Ralph Nader
    Jesse Jackson
    Ross Perot

    who else?

  71. 71.

    Brachiator

    @Roger Moore:

    I would be willing to accept that anyone running for President should have served in some important government office.  I would be willing to include being elected to a statewide office (e.g. governor, attorney general, etc.), serving in either house of Congress, holding a cabinet post, or reaching flag rank in a uniformed service.  I could probably be convinced to allow a few other significant kinds of government service count.

    And so, for example, Michelle Obama would not be able to run for president.

    I totally understand the sentiment, and damn, I would love to prevent a moron like Trump from being able to run for president, but I like the idea that any citizen can be president.

    I also contrast this with the UK where being from a certain social class and having gone to Eton gives you a decided edge to become prime minister.

  73. 73.

    E.

    57,000 new cases today. Almost 15 percent up from yesterday. So 100,000 about Tuesday if the slope doesn’t get any worse than it is now.

  75. 75.

    The Moar You Know

    “Always Time to Do Things Right the Second Time Around”

    Not for at least 130,000 Americans, who are now dead because things weren’t done right the first time around.

  76. 76.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Brachiator:

    I totally understand the sentiment, and damn, I would love to prevent a moron like Trump from being able to run for president, but I like the idea that any citizen can be president.

    I also contrast this with the UK where being from a certain social class and having gone to Eton gives you a decided edge to become prime minister.

    It basically works out to be the same way here in the US

  77. 77.

    Jinchi

    @Baud: Would you rather have a president who’s overprepared?

    What would that mean? Someone who was prepared for too many crises, like a pandemic and a collapse of the health care system and massive unemployment and protests in the streets and a foreign power paying to assassinate our soldiers overseas?

  78. 78.

    Mai naem mobile

    @West of the Rockies: he is getting a lot of snarky replies, I believe, on the SD governor Rushmore retweet.  I just cannot believe this country is arguing about masking. It’s a fucking mask.

  81. 81.

    Punchy

    @Jinchi: FL is fucked beyond belief.  Perhaps the state will die itself into a blue state.  At least the oranges will grow in the newly fertilized soil, although they will taste like Geritol and nursing home.

  82. 82.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    My deepest condolences to residents of Texas and South Dakota who have the misfortune of being governed by two of the dumbest governors in the nation.

  83. 83.

    Hungry Joe

    A few years ago we were at Zion for the Fourth. It had been over 100 degrees for about a week, and EXTREME FIRE DANGER signs were everywhere. So we were surprised to see an announcement that the town  (very small, lives off Park visitors) would be putting on a fireworks display right after dusk. But they must know what they’re doing, right? The fireworks were on one of the hills overlooking the town. Not two minutes after the display began, a fire started on hill. Fifteen minutes later the whole hillside was ablaze, the sky was orange … and there is one road out of town. We ran back to our B&B, threw our stuff in car, and got the hell out of Dodge. Learned later that the town didn’t burn but the B&B owners had spent the night on what had been our roof, hosing it down.

    So, the fireworks in South Dakota … madness.

  84. 84.

    Aleta

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/secret-service-agents-preparing-for-pence-arizona-trip-contracted-coronavirus/2020/07/02/8029280c-bc97-11ea-bdaf-a129f921026f_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_pencetulsa-905pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

    Pence’s trip to Arizona this week had to be postponed by a day after several Secret Service agents who helped organize the visit either tested positive for coronavirus or were showing symptoms of being infected.

    …
    On Monday night, the Secret Service urged Pence’s staff to delay the Tuesday trip until Wednesday because at least one agent on the ground had a confirmed case of covid-19 and other agents and federal officers preparing for the Arizona visit were showing signs of illness, according to two administration officials.

    .. .one of the officials said the Secret Service estimated that a total of eight to 10 agents and other officers from sister agencies — all of whom were helping prepare for Pence’s visit to Arizona — had fallen ill.

    This is the second time in recent weeks that Secret Service agents preparing for a White House or Trump campaign event outside of Washington have contracted the virus. At least three Secret Service personnel working on the advance team for President Trump’s Tulsa rally on June 20 tested positive for covid-19. Two agents tested positive hours before the indoor stadium event was held and dozens of agents who were on site for the rally were ordered to self-quarantine when they arrived home.

  85. 85.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @Sab:

    I will admit that now I almost attack the maskless at the grocery.

    In the past 2 weeks, I’ve encountered 2 individuals who were wearing Trump 2020 face masks.  Both times I was tempted to say something snarky, but figured these morons were beyond hope so I just ignored them. I can’t understand how these idiots could advertise their support for a criminally negligent buffoon who’s done nothing but ridicule the wearing of face masks.

  86. 86.

    Kelly

    @Aleta:This is the second time in recent weeks that Secret Service agents preparing for a White House or Trump campaign event outside of Washington have contracted the virus.

    Gonna run out of Secret Service Agents after a while.

  87. 87.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Hungry Joe:

    I don’t want to sound like I’m wishing harm on Mt. Rushmore, but an image of it ablaze as a result of Trump’s stubborn insistence on fireworks would be a true icon of the Trump presidency.

  88. 88.

    Kelly

    @Sab: I will admit that now I almost attack the maskless at the grocery.

    I’ve settled on asking “Why are you special?”

  89. 89.

    Kelly

    Off to dinner. Mrs Kelly fixed salad nicoise a lovely meal for a warm summer evening.

  92. 92.

    cain

    @Gravenstone:

    Every place I went to today was masked.. everyone. By law. Including home depot. Our Kate is not putting up with any bullshit.

    There was some video of state troopers refusing to put masks on and basically said “fuck the governor” – she was not pleased and they embarrassed the state police. I think one of them was suspended with pay.

  93. 93.

    TS (the original)

    @burnspbesq:

    Yes, he should have done this six weeks ago. But give appropriate recognition to the fact that he’s in a tough spot.

    Doing the job you are paid to do is tough? Wearing masks and social distancing, closing down areas is NOT political – only in Trump’s America could it be seen this way.

  94. 94.

    Kelly

    @WaterGirl: Very mixed replies. One hunched over “I’m not special” maybe I wasn’t the first talk to him. A young rather robust looking guy claimed a medical problem. Another guy went down the “virus is overblown” road. Seems innocuous enough to keep me out of fights.

  95. 95.

    Jeffro

    @Omnes Omnibus: I just want trumpov 2.0 to at least have had to work for it for a few years (among other things, like disclosing 10 years of tax returns, etc)

  96. 96.

    Jeffro

    @NotMax: why ludicrous?  Does anyone off the street get to be CEO of a corporation (much less the world’s biggest and most influential one) on the strength of their reality TV show?

    I fail to see the harm here in ramping up the job requirements.

  97. 97.

    scav

    @cain: Many LEOs really seem to be on a mission to prove a) they are above the law and b) they’re utterly indifferent to, if not titillated by, causing civilian deaths. This lot is on beyond bang-bangs and high speed chases though.

  101. 101.

    Jeffro

    @Dadadadadadada: that was then, this is now.

    there are other Obamas out there.  Not sure I want another JFK anyway.

    trumpov is not qualified to be a dog catcher (no offense to dog catchers)..,maybe part of the solution here is just some basic HR processes.

    Totally serious here.

  103. 103.

    Jeffro

    @Roger Moore: Thank you.  Just some basic minimum job experience is all I’m asking here, same as with every other job in the country except the kids’ corner lemonade stand.

    We are 330M strong…I think somehow this won’t deprive us of the next Obama.

  104. 104.

    Uncle Omar

    @

    @joel hanes: #67  There goes my neighborhood coffee For Baud 2020.  I’ll just have to stop payment on my check to Baud 2020.

  105. 105.

    Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)

    @burnspbesq:  that he’s in a neck and neck race with the Lt.Gov.for the  most stupid man in Texas? I want him and Patrick to learn about ventilators firsthand. Fuck them both.

  107. 107.

    Kropacetic

    @Jeffro: Just some basic minimum job experience is all I’m asking here, same as with every other job in the country except the kids’ corner lemonade stand.

    They should get a little practice making lemonade first.

  109. 109.

    Martin

    @Kropacetic: Per my mom, I was the kid that when the lemonade started running low would just fill it up with the hose.

    Maybe our bar should be a bit higher yet than just that.

  111. 111.

    Jeffro

    @Brachiator: we’re not talking about class here…we’re talking about working one’s way up the governmental ladder.

    We can still have our “rags to riches” and “anyone can be president “ fantasies…they just include a few years in some other office.  Is that a lot to ask for the person who can potentially flush our nation’s ‘pandemic playbook’, spend a couple hundred million on golf outings, or trigger a nuclear war?

    the resistance here is really surprising, people.  Stan-dards.  If you don’t like the ones I’m proposing…what are your recommendations??

  112. 112.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    These 5 states show slowest coronavirus job market recovery

    Guess which ones:

    While some states have seen unemployment applications plummet from record highs after the coronavirus pandemic roiled America’s employment picture, some have suffered stubbornly high job losses months into the recovery. A Yahoo Finance review of jobless claims data from the U.S. Department of Labor shows that Oklahoma, Alaska, Georgia, Mississippi and Florida have seen the weakest signs of return to normal and a bottoming out in job losses.

    I guess opening up early didn’t work out huh, Kemp and DeSantis?

  115. 115.

    Another Scott

    @Jeffro: I understand the sentiment, but I think it’s wrong.  There are many elected officials who are just as wrong-headed as Donnie.  Some who have been in office for decades.

    People should be able to choose their leaders.

    People who are elected leaders should take their oaths and responsibilities seriously.  The baseline problem with Trump isn’t that he didn’t have any elected experience.  No, the basic problem is that the GOP were more than happy to be taken over by him and his minions, including violating their oaths and refusing to do their jobs.

    tl;dr – People are policy.  Written rules and requirements are no protection from bad people.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  116. 116.

    cain

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    My deepest condolences to residents of Texas and South Dakota who have the misfortune of being governed by two of the dumbest governors in the nation.

    Condolences to the residents who didn’t vote for a republican. The rest? Maybe going up against reality will soften their stance about everything.

  117. 117.

    cain

    @scav:

    Yeah, well, they should be fired. I hope this guy does. Insubordination is I believe something they can fire people for.

  118. 118.

    Peale

    Here in my county, we’re down to 5-6 hospitalizations and had our first death in a week. This after having more cases per capita for a few days in late April than anywhere else in the country. I’ve only been in one convenience store where some young asshole was in without a mask, otherwise, I think we’re still masking anywhere indoors.  Unnvervingly, I see a lot less compliance in my building wtih wearing a mask in the common areas. I think people think that if you’re not going to be outside your unit for a long time or are just heading outside, there’s no need to mask up. Or for some reason feel that they own the elevator and the halls and the mailroom.  Bleah.

    It does seem like they are taking contact tracing seriously. We have 350 tracers who along with the DA, took a bunch of 20 something party-goers to court who were refusing to disclose who attended a house party that had 9 cases. No dithering and saying “oh well” with compliance. Some complaints about giving too much authority to the state to force people to quarantine until test results came back, but I don’t think there’s much support for them. When cases are found, either people comply or we’ll all have to shut down again. That’s the new reality. Individual businesses, offices, etc. will be shut down immediately and a few dozen people will be sent to quarantine to prevent having to shut down all businesses again.  My fear though is that there is a big Florida/NYC Metro Area connection that will be hard to break.

  120. 120.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @cain:

    Upon reflection, I should have expressed my condolences specifically for those individuals who did not vote for Abbott or Noem.  As far as I’m concerned, any person who voted for Abbott or Noem or Trump can go fuck themselves.

     

    @joel hanes:

    Sadly, this country has no shortage of profoundly dumb governors.

  121. 121.

    joel hanes

    @Peale:

    I see a lot less compliance in my building

    Some people seem to be tacitly convinced that they can’t get it from anyone they know, and certainly not from anyone they know well.

  122. 122.

    Martin

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Gonna go out on a limb and guess which 5 states have the shittiest unemployment claim processes that has caused people to have to go weeks before they could successfully get a claim filed.

  123. 123.

    scav

    @cain: Absolutely, although it would be even better if there were means to ensure they wouldn’t just be rehired down the road in the usual fashion — the worst apples bobbing along between barrels.

  124. 124.

    Jeffro

    @Another Scott: it’s not a magic bullet, but it solves parts of the problem.  Let’s make it harder for lazy people and morons to run our country, eh?

  125. 125.

    lgerard

    I don’t think any story I have read in the last few years has made me as angry or disgusted as this one. I had to read it through twice to make sure I was processing it right.

    Only a few hours had passed since President Trump pardoned 1st Lt. Clint Lorance and the men of 1st Platoon were still trying to make sense of how it was even possible.

    This may be the most ignorant and cynical thing trump has ever done. May he be haunted by the ghost of Joseph Welch for the rest of his miserable life.

  126. 126.

    Brachiator

    @Jeffro:

    the resistance here is really surprising, people.  Stan-dards.  If you don’t like the ones I’m proposing…what are your recommendations??

    I’m okay with the Constitution as it is on this point. The people get to choose the president from the citizenry. I just hope that voters take their responsibility more seriously than they have in the past.

  127. 127.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    I do want to go on record as stating the following, as a bona fide extrovert:

    1. I genuinely fucking despise social distancing, the end of joyous public events, the end of gathering with friends and relatives and acquaintances, the end of public performances, the destruction of bars and restaurants, the ruin of domestic and foreign travel and the wreckage of the economy.

    2. I try, but I’m not doing well mentally. I feel hemmed inside the borders of a nation I despise and under the thrall of too many fellow citizens whose views and very existence I despise.

    3. I see no end to this and occasionally lapse into a mental funk of “what’s the fucking point of continuing, I’m never going to resume economic or social normality”.

    4. I completely understand the desire to say “fuck it, I’m going to live my life and no longer care about masks or others”. I continue to do my part, but goddamn, I can’t even speak live and in person to a therapist about this anxiety and dread.

    Anyway, that’s where I am.

  128. 128.

    Jinchi

    @Wyatt Salamanca: I’ve encountered 2 individuals who were wearing Trump 2020 face masks.

    Trump supporters wearing masks?

    This seems like the sort of logical paradox that would make a science fiction robot start smoking from the ears.

  129. 129.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @Hungry Joe: So, the fireworks in South Dakota … madness.

    Are fireworks a necessary requirement for outdoor celebrations over there? Nobody thought of sneaking in a laser light show instead?

    Trump wouldn’t have noticed.

  130. 130.

    Ken

    @Peale: I suppose it’s a good sign that it only takes one horrific peak to persuade most of the population of a state to mask. Hopefully the attitude will last more than two months.  (If it lasted two months and covered the whole country, US citizens might even be allowed to travel to Europe by the end of the year.)

  131. 131.

    Martin

    @Brachiator: I think the public deserver a clearer understanding of potential wrongdoing by the candidates. At a minimum, could they get a security clearance through a normal process? If not, why not?

    Having a president that clearly could not have gotten one, but who can override that process for anyone he wants with no oversight is incredibly dangerous.

  132. 132.

    Mary G

    Mississippi Karen:

    Mississippi election commissioner: "I'm concerned about voter registration in Mississippi," the commissioner wrote. "The blacks are having lots (of) events for voter registration. People in Mississippi have to get involved, too." https://t.co/m4p7iWpMN2— Mark Elliott (@markmobility) July 2, 2020

    She said in an interview Monday that she thought she was sending a private message, but the comment was shared publicly on Facebook."This was an error on my part," she said.— Mark Elliott (@markmobility) July 2, 2020

    “I still don’t think blacks are people, but I’m sorry you found out.”

  133. 133.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Jeffro: Dude, as I pointed out above, Rand Paul and Scott Walker would qualify under your rules.  They don’t really accomplish anything.  The solution to the problem of Trump is not to elect assholes.

  134. 134.

    Kent

    @joel hanes: Carly Fiorina, Herman Cain, Steve Forbes, Wendell Willkie.   Herbert Hoover held no elective office prior to running but he was Secretary of Commerce.

  135. 135.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @Jinchi:

    Trump supporters wearing masks?  This seems like the sort of logical paradox

    We’re living in a very fucked up reality and over the past 3 years I’ve been seeing and hearing things that I could never have before imagined.  As far as I’m concerned, a Trump supporter who wears a face mask is just as vile and repulsive as a Trump supporter who refuses to wear one.

  136. 136.

    geg6

    It was announced today that the first known student at my university has died from C19.  He was 21, a student in the College of Earth and Mineral Sciences from Allentown, PA.  He was at one of our smaller campuses, like mine, but in the eastern part of the state.  A colleague and friend of mine who holds the same position at her campus as I do at mine was close to him and is inconsolable.

    Fuck these mother fuckers.

  137. 137.

    Kropacetic

    @Jinchi: Trump supporters wearing masks?

    This seems like the sort of logical paradox that would make a science fiction robot start smoking from the ears.

    I bet I can get a lib to yell at me FOR wearing a mask. Hardeharhar…

  139. 139.

    Martin

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I’m in the same place as a bonafide introvert. I don’t mind being stuck at home, but I care deeply about making govt a force for good, and holy shit does that feel like the most pointless thing to put energy into right now given how rapidly Trump can just wipe it out.

    There’s going to be a house decorating contest for the 4th, and we’re mostly ignoring it but our Karen neighbor is going all-out to win this thing, so we thought we’d help out with some new BLM signs in the yard for the drive-by. Boy, if you had any neighbors you were on the fence about their political loyalties, they are extremely eager to let you know. Did you know the blacks are taking over the 4th of July and white people can’t celebrate it any more. It’s true.

    Every night I feel like I need to slip into a hot tub filled with SSRIs and just soak for a few hours. I miss sleep. I get a bit here and there and once a week I just pass out for like 12 hours.

  140. 140.

    Punchy

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I’m there with ya.  Hard to know I inhabit this country with ~45% of fellows who approve of all the Trump bullshit.  And being unable to travel to the UK and EU elims one of the great perks of my job.  That ~45% think this is fine is incredibly depressing.

  141. 141.

    Martin

    @geg6: Sorry to hear that. I’ve been fortunate to not lose any students, but I know 4 people through work that have passed away. None were close, but I always looked forward to seeing them.

    Back when this all started I figured that would happen – I know a LOT of people through my work and losing a few each year is normal – but I’d consider myself fortunate if everyone in my family came through okay, and so far so good.

  142. 142.

    Brachiator

     

    @Martin:

    I think the public deserve a clearer understanding of potential wrongdoing by the candidates. At a minimum, could they get a security clearance through a normal process? If not, why not?

    This gets interesting. I still say no. At least, none of this information should be disqualifying. It should simply be advisory.

    I would also like candidates to reveal their medical history and release ten years worth of tax returns. But I would not make this mandatory.

    Also, given the way the justice system sometimes works, a background check might unfairly be used against a candidate from a non-priviledged background.

    As a counter example, most of his supporters knew the slimy crap that Trump had done. They just chose to ignore it. And a medical background check might have eliminated JFK as a candidate.

  143. 143.

    Jeffro

    @Omnes Omnibus: good luck with that!

    The ‘prior office’ requirement is. not. the. only. solution. here.  I’m not saying it’s a magic bullet.  But it’s funny…in the cases you present…Paul and Walker at least have decent public records of how they have performed in office.  How well they deliver on their campaign promises (or not), and even how they act as public officials.

    Neither one of them is going anywhere (anywhere higher, at least).  Walker’s already out of office, with no prospects.  Paul’s a nationally-known jackass, propped up only by dubious ‘dark money’.

    Perhaps it would help if folks thought of what I’m proposing as ‘more sunlight, over a longer period of time’.  Not a guarantee that cockroaches won’t find their way into the larder…but boy, it sure makes it harder, doesn’t it?  And think of all the cockroaches it might discourage.

  147. 147.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    The depths of Trump’s stupidity never cease to amaze me:

    During a speech about a trade deal with China, Trump began speaking directly to some of the attendees — including South Dakota’s Gov. Kristi Noem.
    “We’re gonna do a big fireworks display, right?” he said. “Mount Rushmore, we’re going over — I think I’m going to try and be there on July 4th.”
    Trump said Noem asked him about getting the fireworks back to Mount Rushmore, citing “environmental reasons” that had prevented them.
    “I said what can burn? It’s stone,” he said. “So nobody knew why, they just said environmental reasons.”
     

    h/t https://www.argusleader.com/story/news/2020/01/15/mount-rushmore-fireworks-president-donald-trump-says-hell-try-come/4478431002/

  148. 148.

    Jeffro

    @Brachiator:The people get to choose the president from the citizenry. I just hope that voters take their responsibility more seriously than they have in the past.

    I (sort of) respect the sentiment about wanting to let the citizenry choose – and they still would, under the system what I’m talking about – but I’m seeing no evidence that ‘the citizenry’ is getting any sharper here.

    I’m pro-democracy…I just want the applicants for the most important jobs in the US (especially the top job) to have cleared some very basic HR shit before they can proceed to the next round.

    No tax returns?  Sorry!

    No prior experience in government at any level?  Pass.

    No public record of how you work with others (as a Governor, or legislator) to improve the lives of the citizenry?  Return to ‘Go’, do not collect $200.

    It’s one of many things we’ll need to do, honestly.  The system is way, way more vulnerable that we thought, at multiple levels.

  149. 149.

    WaterGirl

    @Martin: I’m sorry, Martin.  You are a force for good in so many ways.  I appreciate your presence here, and I’m grateful that you keep plugging away, even as you feel the way you just described.

  150. 150.

    Martin

    @Brachiator: Yeah, I’m not saying disqualifying, but it should be public.

    I write a lot of policy, so I think in those terms. Policies should always have independent arbiters and checks against abuse. The President is unique in the US for lacking those in a host of situations. He can use pardons as bribes. He can even use them to cover up his wrongdoing to a limited degree. There’s an open question of whether he can pardon his own wrongdoing.

    The problem is that a President once in office has a unique ability to shield his own wrongdoing and to cover up or even absolve previous wrongdoing. So if we aren’t informed that information before they get into office, we’re potentially fucked. And heaven help us they are disloyal to the nation on top of that. They can declassify anything without review, making them the only person who can legally spy against the US.

    I don’t think any of this should be disqualifying but it should be transparent. You want that power, we’re going to open you up and show the public.

  151. 151.

    Kropacetic

    @Wyatt Salamanca: “I said what can burn? It’s stone,” he said. “So nobody knew why, they just said environmental reasons.”

    Clearly not familiar with the fact the environment is everything all around us.

    Or perhaps he thinks Mount Rushmore is isolated in a void somewhere.

  153. 153.

    elm

    The Harley Davidson rally in Sturgis will be happening in the same area in a little over a month. That will be a disaster.

  157. 157.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    I was looking at articles on star trails via the Google.  Was reading one and glanced up to see the author’s name…hey, I know that guy.  I meet him when I was shooting at Leo Carrillo last year.  Small world.

  158. 158.

    Jinchi

    @Brachiator: I would also like candidates to reveal their medical history and release ten years worth of tax returns. But I would not make this mandatory.

    I’m all in on the ten years of tax returns rule. We’ve got a serious problem of legalized bribery and self-dealing in this country, the sort that the Supreme Court will shrug “everybody does it” at, but that voters would recognize as transparently corrupt.

    There’s a reason Trump (and Romney before him) hid their tax returns. They know just how bad it would make them look.

  159. 159.

    Martin

    @WaterGirl: Thank you. I feel like a force for good, but also like a bee flying into a tornado. Institutions need a certain degree of predictability so they can know where to go – we move slow. That’s unavoidable. McDonalds can say they don’t care about vegans, they’ll just skip that part of the market. Government doesn’t get to do that – we’ve got to slog through the painful side of the pareto principle. Trump is just sheer chaos. It’s just not possible to fix shit as fast as he can break it, so everything just feels pointless until he’s out of office. And it’s really insulting to see someone treat the public trust with such disdain.

  160. 160.

    Kropacetic

    @danielx: Been there. There are lots of things that will burn.

    Oh, I know.  But then I tend to believe the National Park Service when they tell us this shit.

  161. 161.

    Another Scott

    @Jeffro: I think we’re pretty much all on the same team here about the importance of vetting, it’s just that putting additional requirements in place seems problematic.

    E.g. I don’t like voting for Senators or Governors who haven’t held substantial elected office before.  For the reasons you mention.  ;-)  But Terry McAuliffe did a good job, and so did Jim Webb (at least in some areas).  And they were certainly better than the people they defeated!!  :-)

    Donnie was in the public eye for decades.  People knew who he was, and who he claimed to be.  John Edwards was a bit of a dark horse who also had no elected experience…

    Yes, I whole-heartedly agree.  People should work their way up in politics the way they do in other professions.  Voters should be able to see how they make difficult choices about budgets and bills.  But voters should also be able to pick someone who doesn’t necessarily fit the mold.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  162. 162.

    Immanentize

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    I am so sorry you are in that place.  Many of us are struggling, but you have sent up flares before and this sounds serious.  So, you probably know the three questions:

    Do you feel like you might be better off no longer suffering?
    Better off dead?

    Did you think about harming or killing yourself today or right now?

    Do you have a plan how you would do that and the means to carry it out?

    I am really not being harsh, but these are the questions you must answer honestly. If yes to just Q one, please get in touch with your doctor tomorrow. If yes to both one and two, please call a suicide prevention hotline? Those people can help you work through the next steps. If yes to all three questions, please take yourself or have someone take you to an emergency room or a crisis care center. Please. Too much accidental and needless tragedies because people don’t want to bother others. Sadly, know from experience.

    Shit is fucked up and bullshit, and yet you have the power and skills to help others which you have been doing in the fucked up courts. That counts. You help people. If need be, let others help you?

  163. 163.

    Patricia Kayden

    Ha!

    Instances of racism on social media have led at least a dozen U.S. colleges to rescind admissions offers to incoming students, often after the images circulated widely online and prompted outrage among students and alumni https://t.co/rcJMPGXyOy— The New York Times (@nytimes) July 3, 2020

  165. 165.

    Jeffro

    @Martin:I don’t think any of this should be disqualifying but it should be transparent. You want that power, we’re going to open you up and show the public.

    and when they don’t disclose?  when they aren’t ‘transparent’?  It has to be disqualifying (by law) or it won’t mean anything.

    trumpov hasn’t disclosed jack shit about his taxes, or his health, and since it wasn’t required by law (and his voters, and GOP enablers in the Senate didn’t care)…oh well.

  166. 166.

    Mary G

    @geg6: This comment on Andy Slavitt’s thread today that we are almost out of the ability to timely process covid tests just broke my heart:

    My cousin died yesterday at home of covid-19. She got tested 5 days ago. She died at home after being turned away from the hospital for not being sick enough. We called her doctor to let them know she passed. They said they won’t have her test till next week. She’s dead. Smh
    — Isaí A. Escobar (@IsaiEscobarAZ) July 2, 2020

    The doctor called back the next day to report her test was positive. The family cannot mourn her together. I am just beyond rage and despair.

  167. 167.

    Mai naem mobile

    @hueyplong: if Cain kicks the bucket the GOP will blame it on him eating too much Godfathers Pizza while being blackity blackity black.

    I was having a conversation with a friend and we both think it’s highly unlikely neither Donny nor Pence or Karen Pence have gotten COVID yet. There have been too many testing positive around them and you damn well know Donny didn’t have them wearing masks early on.

  168. 168.

    Kay

    Private Republican polls in recent weeks show Trump struggling even in conservative states, leading Biden by less than five points in Montana and trailing him in Georgia and even Kansas, according to GOP officials who have seen the data.

    Kansas! Okay that’s probably crazy but I can’t resist bad news for Trump :)

  170. 170.

    Jeffro

    @Another Scott: Ok I think we are agreeing much more than disagreeing here.  I’m not arguing about McAuliffe’s or Webb’s performance as Govs…and at least they did their terms/’service’ and voters know how they handle public office.

    Just because trumpov was ‘in the public eye’ in some capacity, one wholly unrelated to governing, doesn’t make for proper vetting of any kind.  Well, anything related to being a decent president, anyway.  It’s not a huge restriction on voters’ rights when we blackball candidates who won’t disclose their tax returns, basic health records, or serve a term or two in some lower office.  We’re a nation of 300M people…surely there are more than a few folks who can meet that minimum standard before we give them power over the DOJ, appointments of all kinds, and the nuclear codes.

  173. 173.

    Patricia Kayden

    It's fucked up to be the only country on the planet whose leader had MONTHS to prepare for the crisis, the best scientists, the best people, and the best idea he could come up with was injecting bleach.— BrooklynDad_Defiant! (@mmpadellan) July 3, 2020

  175. 175.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Your sentiments resonate with me.  Every day since Trump was elected, I wake up with a deep feeling of rage and disgust.  I fervently hope for his defeat in November.  Knowing what a fragile, delicate psyche he has, I hope for a humiliating and crushing defeat.  I only wish it were possible for Trump to face criminal charges once he leaves office.

    With Trump serving as President, I’ve never been more ashamed to be an American.  I strongly opposed Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr, and W, but to me Trump’s administration is the worst presidency of my lifetime.  His ignorance, corruption, and malevolence are off the charts.  Beyond Trump’s horrible record, he’s significantly dumbed down our politics and our culture.  I never felt that his Republican predecessors dumbed down the nation.  As someone who respects science, I have a special revulsion for Trump’s utter contempt for science and for expertise in general.  The only thing that keeps me going is the thought of the incredible and wonderful celebration that will begin once Biden is officially declared the victor on Election night.

  176. 176.

    Mai naem mobile

    @Another Scott: you need to have at least a couple of traditional battleground states pass legislation making releasing the medical and financial records a requirement for having their name on a ballot for all elected offices(local and federal.) I remember hearing that the State of Washington has passed that. Obviously the GOP wouldn’t care because the chances of Washington going red are nil.

  177. 177.

    Another Scott

    @Jeffro: The mechanics of any rules can be gamed (e.g. Cheney being a resident of “Wyoming”).  And courts too often have their own agendas (e.g. the continuing battles over Congress getting access to Donnie’s tax returns despite the clear “shall” language).

    The requirements for being President are in the Constitution.  Changing the Constitution is really, really hard.  I’d much rather that we spend that effort on something else, myself.

    I suspect that the problems in future presidential elections aren’t going to be caused by lack of vetting.  All of the candidates are going to have lots of social media history, etc.  What’s likely to be more of an issue is candidates like McConnell who first ran as a reformer against campaign finance abuses and turned into something very, very different…. No amount of vetting requirements will prevent things like that.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  178. 178.

    Mai naem mobile

    @Kay: if Kobach wins the GOP primary there’s a decent chance for a Dem Senator. I know it won’t happen but I would love to see Tom Cotton beaten in a massive blue wave. He just comes across as particularly dangerous and I would love to see his political career end early.

  179. 179.

    Martin

    @Kay: Coattails.

    Trump is trailing in Texas. CA and TX are the anchors. If Dems pick up Texas, then there’s just no path for the GOP. And how many Senate seats do they lose in the process?

  181. 181.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @Kropacetic:

    Every single day since getting elected President, Trump says or does something that demonstrates his jaw-dropping stupidity and laziness.

  183. 183.

    dww44

    @burnspbesq: Yep, in depth look at his particular position with Beto O’Rourke with Lawrence on the Last Word. The Lieutenant governor it seems has more actual power under the weird Texas constitution. And the current Lieutenant governor, who looks as if he could be on Sunday morning TV hereabouts spouting his religious stuff, seems to be one dangerous crackpot.

    Proof positive that we are better off in our democracy with a strong 2 party system in every state and region.

  184. 184.

    Martin

    @Jeffro: The problem is the asking. We don’t need to ask Trump for his tax returns. Congress could request and publish them. I raised the security clearance because that’s government information. Same thing.

    I don’t think medical health is that important. We have provisions for that. I’m more worried about malice than infirmity.

  185. 185.

    Thaddeu

    Racist-in-Chief John Roberts strikes again

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/070220zr_n7io.pdf

    Racist-in-Chief  must be his epitaph. More than anyone else, he is the cunning king-pin and architect of white supremacy today, building it’s political, legal and moral framework.

    Trashing his legacy should be a core agenda for everyone who believes in the rule of law. Pack the courts.

    Utter emasculation of the Roberts five.  Thirteen on the bench!!!

  186. 186.

    dww44

    @Roger Moore: but he was a businessman, and a successful one at that, who still, according to a couple of Trump cultists, has so much money that he doesn’t need to buy power.  harumph!

  187. 187.

    Martin

    @burnspbesq:

    Any move Abbott takes toward doing the right thing, however small or tentative, is bitterly and vociferously resisted by the crackpot right, and increases the likelihood of his being primaried in 2022.

    Yes, he should have done this six weeks ago. But give appropriate recognition to the fact that he’s in a tough spot.

    I’ve risked my career 4 times as as government employee to protect students and only one of those was so serious as to affect a persons life. And that case even had a meeting scheduled for my termination, interrupted the day of by news from the police that the stalking student I was concerned about did indeed have a gun, was indeed caught while stalking, and the gun was loaded as it went off during the arrest.

    There are many, many things worse than losing your job while having a very good pension. I don’t find Abbots spot difficult at all.

  188. 188.

    VeniceRiley

    I bought a 50 pack of masks to give out to people without when I’m out and about. Haven’t encountered any, but I’m careful where I shop, and when

  189. 189.

    James E Powell

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    Every single day since getting elected President, Trump says or does something that demonstrates his jaw-dropping stupidity and laziness.

    Along with his bigotry and corruption.

  191. 191.

    James E Powell

    @Another Scott:

    The requirements for being President are in the Constitution.  Changing the Constitution is really, really hard.  I’d much rather that we spend that effort on something else, myself.

    We need a defense from the stupid, hateful bigot voters. We need to look somewhere other than the constitution or election laws.

    Time was, the Big Bad Party Establishments were a barrier against someone like Trump getting a major party nomination. Those days are gone forever.

    The press/media eagerly promoted Trump not just because of their deeply ingrained hatred of Hillary Clinton but because Trump was the freak show that drew viewers and got clicks. They will do the same thing the next time someone like him runs. They would like five candidates like that every cycle.

    Our only defense is ourselves. Register. Vote. Every fucking election.

  195. 195.

    James E Powell

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    I’m still in the Trump as result camp rather than Trump as cause. The Republicans, FOX, RW radio, cables shows, and the entire press/media created the world we live in.

    And most of all it’s the people who vote for Republicans. Stupid, hateful bigots.

  197. 197.

    Mai naem mobile

    @Kelly:

    @Jackie:

    That’s pathetic but I guess there was a guy who dropped out right after the deadline to file for health reasons. I used to get spam emails fron James DeWitt(Clinton’s FEMA director) a few years ago whenever he ran for the Senate after I made a campaign donation.  

  200. 200.

    frosty

    @The Moar You Know:  Breaking my Rule #1 the only time I tried hang-gliding: Don’t fly any higher than you’re prepared to fall.
    But what a hoot!

  202. 202.

    Brachiator

    @Searcher:

    What about capping the net worth of Presidential candidates at, say, $25 million, as of Jan 1 of the election year?

    I had to step away, and the thread may be dead. But for the record, I like guidelines that may give voters more information about a candidate, but oppose efforts that would legally restrict who could become a candidate.

  204. 204.

    J R in WV

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    I too am mostly an introvert. We (wife and I) built a nice home, up a tiny shady hollow on our wooded hillside land in rural WV. We love to travel, though, both in the US and abroad more recently.

    We have excellent neighbors whom we love and share things with. Next door east I learned to make French 75s, a drink invented during WW I, made with champagne and gin or cognac, Oh My so nice. We are huggers, and hug each other when we meet and when we part — only not now. Now we try to keep our difference.

    Neighbors to the west, scientists by training, biologists. Great cook, builder of a home, cabinetry, runs our network. We sold them their residential property for $10, have known him since he was in Jr High. Huggers too, but not now.

    I hug my wife, who is the only person I have touched in months but for the nurse and doctor at my last appointment. Medical staff is Just Not the same as close friends you have known for 30 or 40 years!

    So I sympathize with you. I have bizzare dreams about weird medical conditions. I wake up at 4 am and can’t go back to sleep.

    When I’m awake, I can usually focus on something other than my thoughts about myself and my state of mind, which helps. Sometimes I work hard to avoid the news of the day, but usually I’m ok with it. We have to go to a bank today, but we will wear masks and slather with alcohol based hand sanitizer.

    To reward ourselves for making the somewhat dangerous trip into town we will stop at the farmer’s market, wearing masks, and get some of the first fresh harvested this morning corn on the cob. We had the first fresh tomatoes of the season with dinner, and they were great, too!

    Hank in there Le Comte. You do have friends here, although we must agree to disagree some times, we still respect you and admire you. Keep in touch! Remember, eventually things will improve somewhat.

  205. 205.

    Searcher

    @Brachiator: [Yes, I know the thread is dead, the futility of continuing to post on a dead thread, and that posting last on a dead thread does not constitute “winning”.]

    The interesting part to me is that, while technically such a rule would mean that there was a class of people (“people with more than $25 million”) who couldn’t run for President, unlike the “natural born citizen” rule we already have, people with more than $25 million could easily make themselves eligible by giving away some of their money.  They don’t even have to give it to charity; they could give it to their children or their friend Joe.  Hell, it wouldn’t surprise me if they could give it all to a PAC under current campaign finance laws.  And even a very young person can comfortably live the rest of their lives on $25 million, even without investing it, so it isn’t precisely requiring Presidential candidates to put on sack-cloth.

    While the rule would hardly ban every bad Presidential candidate, and there are a number of good ones who would have had to sacrifice some of their fortunes to run, I think the rule would do two things: first, it would make the finances of the candidates of material, legal interest.  If the eligibility of the candidates is directly contingent on their net worth, discrepancies and chicanery would be much more consequential — a Presidential candidate with a secret off-shore account would be a much bigger story, even if they didn’t have a (D) behind their name, if it affected their eligibility to run, and the press and public would hopefully treat it as a bigger deal than we treated the revelation that Trump cheated on his taxes to the tune of hundreds of millions by mis-valuing assets.

    Second — it probably would discourage people from running, the sort of people who have heaps of money, since you rarely accumulate hundreds of millions of dollars if you’re happy to (and have the option of) living on tens of millions.  I think that would be of equal or greater value than prohibiting naturalized citizens or people under 35 from becoming President.

  206. 206.

    artem1s

    @joel hanes: 

    This rule would have stopped

    Since Citizen’s United it’s mostly been a problem with grifters running for the WH. If you are serious about setting some sort of litmus test for candidates, you have to start with financing reform. If Roberts (worst CJ since Taney) hadn’t screwed us on CU, then we probably wouldn’t have ever had to dealt with Dump or any number of grifters who were only in the race because of their staffers running a grift on gullible glibertarians. CU meant the Federalist Society can channel money into mayhem candidates (Tea Party) and never show their hands. And you can bet a good numbers of the grifters will go back to religion or hocking snake oil the minute the cash dries up in politics. We also need to mandate the release of all tax returns – going back to their first paycheck. And we need to mandate signing over all private holdings to blind trusts for the entire WH, cabinet and staff. We let Cheney off the hook and it’s been nothing but corruption and swamp monsters since then. Make it clear that the WH or cabinet is not going to be an avenue to amass personal wealth, then those who have no interest in public service will self eliminate.

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