Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“But what about the lurkers?”

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

This chaos was totally avoidable.

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

Fight them, without becoming them!

The words do not have to be perfect.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

If ‘weird’ was the finish line, they ran through the tape and kept running.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

We will not go back.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

I would try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

People are weird.

You passed on an opportunity to be offended? What are you even doing here?

You are here: Home / Music / Thursday Evening Respite Open Thread: Popular Culture

Thursday Evening Respite Open Thread: Popular Culture

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Curious to see how this is received (and to see it myself, once the worst of the joining-to-stream-it bump is over)…

Reader Interactions

118Comments

  2. 2.

    joel hanes

    I wish that whoever first said “six feet separation” had said “ten feet” instead, or more.

    Because, indoors, six feet is not enough.

  3. 3.

    John Revolta

    When I saw “Social distanced salsa” the first thing I thought of was three-foot long tortilla chips

    Maybe I ought a think about getting some lunch.

  5. 5.

    joel hanes

    My kids took me to see Hamilton at the Orpheum in San Francisco as a surprise gift a while back.

    Best theatrical experience I’ve ever had.

    I’m an old, and hip-hop is not my native language, so it took me maybe ten minutes to entrain … a litle like getting used to Shakespearean language at the start of Branagh’s Henry V part II.

    Coda:  I’ll never understand why, given a choice between A HAM and BURR hats at the merch counter, some people chose BURR

    Gore Vidal’s Burr is a good read.

  11. 11.

    geg6

    This would be the only reason I would sign up for Disney+.  I’m going to join for one month and then cancel.  I am not a Disney fan at all.  Never was.

    Very interested to see what Duvernay and Kaepernick do together.

  12. 12.

    VeniceRiley

    man City beat LiVARpool 4-0 and today is my meetiversary with the lady. :-D Banner day!

  13. 13.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    The family and I are excited for Hamilton. The young teens have been singing the soundtrack for years, and we finally get to see the whole thing!

  17. 17.

    zhena gogolia

    @geg6:

    I joined a month ago just to be on the safe side, and I haven’t used it once. Although I might be tempted to go back and watch things like The Shaggy Dog, etc.

  20. 20.

    geg6

    @zhena gogolia:

    I could count on one hand the Disney films I’ve seen in my lifetime.  And probably have a finger or two left over.  I hate animated films and cartoons.  Not big on “youth oriented” movies either.  Not even back when I was the target audience.  I had to be dragged to see Mary Poppins, which is probably my favorite Disney film.  And it doesn’t even make my top 100 favorite movies.

  21. 21.

    scav

    @joel hanes: Oh, and given a choice between those hats, I’m afraid I would be the person asking for the GRRR option.
    i can never resist low-hanging fruit.

  22. 22.

    Tenar Arha

    Oooh. ~*rubs hands together happily*~ Between enjoying this and the Mandalorian, it almost pays for the “free” subscription with my expensive unlimited Verizon wireless plan I signed up for last fall.

  23. 23.

    JMG

    Hamilton is what Disney hopes gets people to sign up. Their catalog of Marvel movies is how they hope to keep people for more than a month.

  24. 24.

    raven

    ”
    San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick offered his thoughts on the first presidential debate Tuesday, making it clear he’s not satisfied with either nominee.
    “To me, it was embarrassing to watch that these are our two candidates,” Kaepernick said, via Yamiche Alcindor of the New York Times. “Both are proven liars, and it almost seems like they’re trying to debate who’s less racist. And at this point, talking with one of my friends, it was, you have to pick the lesser of two evils, but in the end, it’s still evil.””

  25. 25.

    joel hanes

    @geg6:

    You might consider making an exception for “Up!”.

    My mom dislikes animation too — but Up! became one of her favorite movies after we inveigled her into watching it.

    Up! has no Disney princesses, is not really a musical, and Ed Asner knocks it out of the park …  but Russell is the best.

  26. 26.

    raven

    @JMG: I get it free for a year because of having a Verizon account. I haven’t watched anything yet but I guess I’ll watch this.

  27. 27.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    @joel hanes:

    My kids took me to see Hamilton at the Orpheum in San Francisco as a surprise gift a while back.

    Best theatrical experience I’ve ever had.

    Lucky you! I could never find any tix other than obstructed view for $100+, so I haven’t yet seen it. I’d be more than willing to pay more than that, but not for a frustratingly imperfect experience.

    @joel hanes:  I second “Up,” and also “Toy Story 4.”

  29. 29.

    Nicole

    @joel hanes: I’ll never understand why, given a choice between A HAM and BURR hats at the merch counter, some people chose BURR

    Well, when  I went to see it on B’way a few years back, the extremely fine Brandon Victor Dixon (Judas in the NBC live performance of Jesus Christ Superstar) was playing Aaron Burr, so I get it.  ;)

  31. 31.

    James E Powell

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Years ago I read a bio of Burr by Milton Lomask – the first of two volumes – and I learned quite a bit but not enough for me to understand him.

  34. 34.

    dnfree

    @geg6: I was also going to suggest “Up”. The Toy Story movies are also surprisingly moving. And WallE—is that Disney?  There is more pathos in animated films than people might think.

  35. 35.

    evap

    My best friend is a direct descendant of Aaron Burr.  (I’m not making this up.)

  41. 41.

    Yutsano

    @John Revolta: To be fair, that was from 2016. Yamiche works for PBS now and there hasn’t been a debate yet since the Democrats don’t have an official nominee yet. How many primaries are left anyway?

     

    @raven:  Aww! It wasn’t the full sequence! When I played bassoon I used to love playing that piece even if it was a challenge. But it’s a fun little vignette. Also: Disney needs to do a Fantasia update. It should have been this year but oh well.

    @Betty:  Still, to this day my favourite Pixar movie. The first 20 minutes with no dialogue is just amazing storytelling. (TIMEWARP!!!)

  43. 43.

    dnfree

    @zhena gogolia: if you read the books (I’m old), you would hate the movie. The character is nothing like the book—too saccharine. The book character is fun.

  44. 44.

    senyordave

    @John Revolta: I’m pissed that there is no candidate who I agree with on every single issue.  The only person I can think of who does agree with me on every issue is me, and I’m not on the goddamn ballot.  And if it takes more than a millesecond to figure out who is more racist, Joe Biden or Donald Trump, then you are a fucking moron

    Update: I stand by this comment, but as someone said, in all fairness this was from an article in Sep, 2016.  I’m hoping that Kaepernick doesn’t feel the same right now.

  45. 45.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    @John Revolta:  @Yutsano:  So much has happened since 2016 that I’m not in any way going to condemn Kaepernick for what he said then. I’ll listen to what he says now.

    ETA: and I’ll also listen to what Biden says now. He wasn’t my first pick, by far, but at least he’s shown he can learn.

  46. 46.

    geg6

    @raven:

    Not to me.  I really, really don’t like animation.  My niece and BIL live for it.  That and super hero stuff.  Which is pretty much the same thing, AFAIC, since super heroes come from comic books, another art form for which I have no appreciation.

    Musical theater, OTOH, is awesome as long as Andrew Lloyd Weber wasn’t involved.

  48. 48.

    Brachiator

    @joel hanes:

    I’m an old, and hip-hop is not my native language, so it took me maybe ten minutes to entrain … a litle like getting used to Shakespearean language at the start of Branagh’s Henry V part II.

    There’s a Henry IV, Part II. But Henry V is just Henry V.

    But I understand what you mean about the musical language of the play. It will be interesting to see how viewers react to it. I notice though, that Miranda also weaves in traditional Broadway approaches to the songs, with hints of Sondheim. It is really well done.

    And one of Burr’s numbers is just beautiful and straightforward, with a Latin flavor.

    Coda: I’ll never understand why, given a choice between A HAM and BURR hats at the merch counter, some people chose BURR

    In some ways, Burr is as much the “hero” of the play as is Hamilton.

  52. 52.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    A friend of mine shared this video of social distanced salsa and it’s how i’m tryna be.

    Just occurred to me, all the no touch dances, those started in the ’20s, after the Spanish Flue.

  53. 53.

    geg6

    @dnfree:

    Pathos or not, I can’t get past the animation.  It distracts me and I much prefer live action.  Real people.  Real animals.  Real.

  58. 58.

    Brachiator

    @geg6:

    Not to me. I really, really don’t like animation. My niece and BIL live for it. That and super hero stuff. Which is pretty much the same thing, AFAIC, since super heroes come from comic books

    Superheroes come from the foundations of literature. Homer, the Greek dramatists.

    Achilles is a superhero, as is Hercules and Samson. Deborah is one of my favorite biblical superheroes.

  59. 59.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    Must confess we’re both kind of fond of a lot of Disney stuff, and often kid movies are our go-to when we want a good date movie and my wife is not in the mood for a lot of emotional gut-wrenching or extreme violence. (We recently watched Spike Lee’s new film Da 5 Bloods and while I thought it was fantastic and she thought it was OK, she says I owe her about 3 chick flicks for that one).

    There was a long period I think of as “The Dark Years” from Walt’s death to The Little Mermaid where their output was pure crap. But honestly I really like a lot of the stuff they’ve done in the last 20 years.

    And I agree with others, “Up!” is wonderful.

    So yeah, I have Disney+. Signed up a couple of months ago for something else, and so we’re going to watch Hamilton, probably this weekend, and see what all the fuss is about.

  62. 62.

    geg6

    @Brachiator:

    Not a fan of mythology or the Bible, either.  Too cartoon like for my taste.  Though much more stupid and unbelievable than cartoons.

    ETA: And yes, I took both Greek and Roman mythology classes in college, plus a Bible as literature class.  Hated all three but I aced them.

  65. 65.

    zhena gogolia

    @dnfree:
    Even as a child I sensed it was too saccharine for me. But the songs are quite good.
    I objectively understand that Julie Andrews is very good, but I can’t really take her. Except in The Americanization of Emily

    ETA: Speaking of which, RIP Johnny Mandel.

  66. 66.

    Nicole

    @zhena gogolia:  I recognized him RIGHT AWAY when we watched Jesus Christ Superstar Live.  Oh, my heart. :)  He was great as Aaron Burr.  Also great as Judas; I’ve watched it several times over, too. I think it’s the best live musical NBC pulled off.

  68. 68.

    laura

    @James E Powell: I dunno. Last I’d read she was getting ready to return to the workplace. I miss her comments – especially her Hamilcrushing and her insights on narcissism personality disorder.

    I hope she comes back around soon. I expect that she’s missed by most.

  69. 69.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @dnfree: There is more pathos in animated films than people might think.

    We have a tradition of watching the Oscar-Nominated Shorts every February (the nominated Documentaries, Animated Films, and Live-Action Films are each released as a full-length feature to theaters).

    The animated films especially are often pretty rough, emotionally-speaking. And more often than not are about death. But usually very beautifully drawn, in an astonishing variety of styles.

    I confessed above to liking Disney features, but I resent when they stomp their big mouse feet over this genre. The real joy of those films is the small studios from around the world.

  70. 70.

    zhena gogolia

    @Brachiator:

    That device is borrowed from Jesus Christ Superstar, to give Tim Rice and Andrew Lloyd Webber their due. The treatment of Burr is modeled on the treatment of Judas, as I believe Mnemosyne would point out if only she would come back!

  71. 71.

    Another Scott

    @raven:

    He didn’t vote, either.

    I’m not going to beat on him about this. He’s done more to change the world, and politics, for the better than I have.

    That said, I hope he’s re-evaluated his views over the last 4 years…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  72. 72.

    Nicole

    @JPL: I saw Persepolis!  In the theater, even, back in the days of yore when we could still see things in the movie theater. :(  It was really good.

  73. 73.

    zhena gogolia

    @geg6:

    I’m with you. I loved animation when I was a kid and even in youth, but now I have no patience for it.

    ETA: I happily enjoyed Paddington 2, because that was mostly real people. So it’s not about kiddie content.

  74. 74.

    geg6

    @Nicole:

    Totally agree.  Most of the others were a travesty.  But JCS was excellent.  The only good thing Andrew Lloyd Weber ever did, even though I tend to give Tim Rice all the credit for it because I despise ALW so much. ??

  75. 75.

    prostratedragon

    @JPL: Only just enough in passing to know that I’d like to see the whole thing sometime.

  77. 77.

    Emma

    I have to rant, because sleeping over it hasn’t done much to blunt my annoyance over Larian and the way they wrote Divinity OS: 2’s ending. Not quite as bad as Bioware and Mass Effect 3, since I’m not in a mini-depression over it, but that’s only because Larian didn’t write very much dialogue for even your romantic interests, considering the length of a campaign. I put in over 100 hours to finally finish my campaign, only to end up with the ME 3 endings of “choose the ending that the story and companions have been psyching you up for this whole time, only to get an epilogue of utter dreariness,” choose the middle path that popped up all of sudden, but which was not the people around you had signed up for, or choose the ending that the sociopathic, genocidal villains had been trying to achieve this whole time, because of the “greater good.”

    I then looked up Larian’s official Divinity canon, and hoo boy, let’s just say that I hope they treat Baldur Gate 3’s canon with more respect. The Divinity game that let’s you read newspapers, swan about in an airship, fly around the battlefield with a jetpack, and deploy maniacal imps in fighter jets is in fact the EARLIEST in the lore timeline, while all the other games, which are vaguely medieval in technology, are all freaking 9,000 years in the future. How did you lose FIGHTER JETS, Larian???!!! Oh yeah, and the official canon is that you went with the genocidal villain’s plan at the end of Div. OS 2. Really makes me want to play the next Divinity game, Larian

    Edit: oh yeah, and the despite getting all the right dialogue, my romantic interest winds up going off to continue his search for his long-lost wife in the epilogue. No, it’s not a bug. I thought we talked about this, Fane, what the hell.

  78. 78.

    neldob

    101 Dalmations is one of the greats as far as I’m concerned, but I can live without Disneyland.

  79. 79.

    zhena gogolia

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    I’m a little worried based on the clip in the OP that the movie is going to look murky. I’m sure it wasn’t that way in the theater (I’ve memorized it, but I’ve never seen it in a theater; the one chance I had, I then had to go to Milwaukee instead, long story, and I’ve never had another chance).

  80. 80.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    To the animation haters: Even the Aardman stuff, like Chicken Run or Wallace and Gromit?

  81. 81.

    zhena gogolia

    @Nicole:

    I love it to pieces. I’ll state a controversial opinion and say that I even liked John Legend in it. And Norm Lewis was fantastic!

  83. 83.

    geg6

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    When I say I don’t watch animation, believe me.  I have no idea what those things are that you refer to.  No clue.

    ETA: I’ll throw you a bone.  As a kid, I liked Rocky and Bullwinkle.  Mainly because I sensed it was a bit subversive.  I was that kind of kid.  Didn’t like what everyone else liked.

  84. 84.

    Kropacetic

    @zhena gogolia: I’m with you. I loved animation when I was a kid and even in youth, but now I have no patience for it.

    ETA: I happily enjoyed Paddington 2, because that was mostly real people. So it’s not about kiddie content.

    So the format matters more than the content?

    Also, I object to the notion of kiddie content.  If something isn’t good enough to entertain adults, we’re going to show it to our kids?!?!?!?

  85. 85.

    zhena gogolia

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    No, I love that stuff. But that’s stop-motion. I have a lot more patience for that. And Wallace and Gromit are so funny!

    ETA: Or at least it’s done to look like stop-motion.

  86. 86.

    zhena gogolia

    @Kropacetic:

    Okay, I worded it inartfully. The film is marketed to a child audience, but like Rocky and Bullwinkle, it is fully entertaining to people of all ages.

    ETA: I know, I’m commenting too fast. But I realize I’m contradicting myself by citing Rocky. Rocky doesn’t count.

  88. 88.

    Kropacetic

    @zhena gogolia: No, I love that stuff. But that’s stop-motion.

    Have you ever seen “Coraline” or “Kubo and the Two Strings”?  Beautiful stop motion animation in those films with compelling stories.

  89. 89.

    dmsilev

    @Emma: 

    Not quite as bad as Bioware and Mass Effect 3

    Basically nothing in recent memory is quite that bad. You pretty much have to embrace the ‘it’s the journey, not the destination’ philosophy to avoid maniacal rage at that ending.

  90. 90.

    Brachiator

    @geg6:

    Were you in my Literary Use of the Bible class?

    Thing is, of course, no mythology, no literature. Period.

    @zhena gogolia:

    That device is borrowed from Jesus Christ Superstar, to give Tim Rice and Andrew Lloyd Webber their due. The treatment of Burr is modeled on the treatment of Judas, as I believe Mnemosyne would point out if only she would come back!

    Good point on Jesus Christ, Superstar.  Listened to the album a lot as a yoot. Enjoyed the recent TV production

    Is Mnemosyne away for work purposes, or was there some other reason? Yes, very much missed.

    ETA: Loved, loved, loved the Persepolis graphic novel. A comic book masterpiece.

    Also recommend Maus.

  91. 91.

    Kropacetic

    @dmsilev: It was good right up until the very end too.  A lot of outcomes I was working toward throughout all three games paid dividends in that game, until every choice of ending negated it all.  Also, framing the ending around such a stark direct choice like that sort of ignored the series’ tendency to actions driving consequences.

  94. 94.

    zhena gogolia

    @raven:

    I haven’t gotten on the Kaepernick train either. I may have some vague memory of the thing you posted.

  95. 95.

    Emma

    @dmsilev: for sure. It’s just that I like RPGs quite a lot, and Div OS 2 is the only game in the last decade that has made me feel anything like how I felt with ME3. I uninstalled it out of spite XD Give me back my imps in fighter jets, Larian!!! *bangs head on wall

  99. 99.

    Nicole

    @zhena gogolia: I liked John Legend just fine in it.  He’s not an actor, and it showed, but I thought he did a really good job, especially as how he was the name that got the thing done on NBC.

    And yes, Norm Lewis!  He and Jin Ha singing together gave me goosebumps.  I would like a Caiphas-Annas buddy road comedy, please.

  100. 100.

    geg6

    @Brachiator:

    Did you go to Pitt in late 70s/early 80s?  If so, maybe!

    Thing is, of course, no mythology, no literature.

    Not sure I agree with this.  Not at all sure this is true.

  102. 102.

    Brachiator

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    To the animation haters: Even the Aardman stuff, like Chicken Run or Wallace and Gromit?

    Sports reporter Rich Marotta used to be a sidekick on a LA morning radio program. He was adamant that animation was just for kids and absolutely refused to see any animated movie, no matter how well it was reviewed.

    A co-worker thought that Star Wars movies were all crap. He finally went to see one with his sons, and was able to enjoy it once he was able to think of it as a political allegory.

    Another co-worker was dismissive of animation, but took his kids to see “Finding Nemo.” He came back raving at how visually beautiful the film was.

    This kind of thing also reminds me of people I know who dismiss all science fiction because it is set in the future or on fantasy worlds. Strangely enough, they can accept any movie or book set in the past, no matter how inaccurate it might be.

    People are strange.

    ETA: Rich Marotta was also an incredibly knowledgeable and astute commentator on the history of American presidential primaries. He was also incredibly fair minded. Some have suggested that the host of the radio show Marotta appeared on got tired of Marotta being accurate and fair about things and had him gracefully dropped from the program. The host subsequently could rattle off his wrongheaded opinion without fear of being corrected.

  103. 103.

    dmsilev

    @Emma: I never got around to playing Divinity. Last big RPG I played through was Dragon Age: Inquisition. Which was fun, but a real slog given that I have RPG Side Quest OCD.There was one side quest there which was basically ‘retrieve a bunch of overdue library books’ and sure enough, I spent however long it took to track down umpteen copies of that silly thing.

  104. 104.

    Nicole

    @geg6: I think Evita is quite listenable.  I don’t think it works well as an actual show, because it’s pretty much telling you the entire story in the songs, so it’s kind of dull to actually watch, but it’s good to listen to.  In fact, that’s my issue with Tim Rice as a lyricist; I think he writes great lyrics for pop songs, but as a musical theater writer, not so much.  A lot of his songs are really hard to act because the lyrics aren’t active- you don’t watch animation, so you haven’t seen Aladdin, but half of the songs are by the brilliant Howard Ashman and the other half are by Tim Rice and you can really tell whose is whose, because Ashman (he of Little Shop of Horrors) knew how to write a musical theater song.  “Friend Like Me” is a great, great piece of musical theater, and Robin Williams acted the sh*t out of it.  “A Whole New World”- eh.  That said, it was the big pop hit from the film.

    Which is not to say I don’t like Tim Rice- I do- I love Chess, which again, not a great show to watch, but a great album to listen to.  He’s a terrific pop song lyricist.

    My husband vehemently disagrees with me about the watchability of Evita, by the way.  He LOVES that show. ;)

    On Youtube, you can find the original concept album for Evita, with Colm Wilkinson singing Che, and it’s pretty hilarious, as he really tries to Latin it up.  With not a lot of success.

  105. 105.

    Brachiator

    @geg6:

    Did you go to Pitt in late 70s/early 80s?  If so, maybe!

    No. East Coast Ivy League, mid 70s.

    RE: Thing is, of course, no mythology, no literature.

    Not sure I agree with this.  Not at all sure this is true.

    Homer, Greek drama is foundational to Western literature.

    Herakles, Theseus, Samson, David, Deborah, Beowulf, were the superheroes associated with specific city states or tribes.

    I could throw in some Egyptians as well, and of course Gilgamesh.

    And in the comic books you disdain Superman, Batman, etc, are all protectors of specific cities. Metropolis, Gotham City, instead of Athens or Thebes.  A callback to the role of the superhero in the earliest myths.

  106. 106.

    John Revolta

    @Brachiator: I think the Giant Evil Corporation shut down her department “for the duration”. I imagine they don’t want to be cranking product out with no way to exhibit it.

    ETA: Seconded on Maus. An amazing work, not to be missed.

  107. 107.

    Barbara

    @raven: Yeah, while I think Kaepernick has been unjustly treated, when I listen to him speak about politics and issues he strikes me as shallow, not impressive.

  109. 109.

    MomSense

    I love love love to dance salsa.  I might have to make a little dance party for myself this weekend.

  114. 114.

    Jay

    @raven: @John Revolta: 

    Y’all don’t get it. In my 60+ trips around the sun, I have voted FOR a cantidate twice.

    Trudeau said the words, Universal Basic Income, this year, an ideal to deal with poverty, unemployment, under employment and other social ills, for the first time, the first mention by a “Liberal”, when Sars-Covid 19 shut everything down.

    An Idea that has been out there since 1936, and “proven” to decrease economic insecurity and all the ills associated with that.

    Our so called “Leaders” are sheep.

  115. 115.

    Nicole

    @zhena gogolia: Antonio Banderas was the best thing in the film, by far.  And I didn’t hate the film.   I really, really liked what Banderas did.

    (Though Mandy Patinkin’s gorgeous voice is really pretty to listen to in the original Broadway recording.)

  117. 117.

    Another Scott

    @joel hanes:

    Nobody: What’s your favorite paradox?

    Me: If you ask Rick Astley for his copy of the movie UP, he cannot give it to you as he will never give you up. However, in doing so, he lets you down. Thus creating the Astley Paradox.

    — Alenora (@spunkyturnip) June 28, 2020

    (via nycsouthpaw)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

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