never realised how gross and sad mt rushmore looks when you can actually see the whole mountain pic.twitter.com/XUd4Iio3hR
— andy, the melted mask (@AndyAstruc) July 3, 2020
A bunch of white Trump supporters chanting "Go back to where you came from" to Native American protesters in front of Mt Rushmore is probably THE most American way to celebrate the Fourth of July ever.
— Daryl Sturgis??? (@darylsturgis) July 3, 2020
Robin Givhan, at the Washington Post, “Trump got his crowd and his fireworks, and peddled his fiction”:
… Mount Rushmore is painfully complex — much like America itself. The faces of four revered, but profoundly flawed, presidents were carved into the stone by a talented sculptor who sympathized with the Ku Klux Klan. The majestic monument — a testament to human tenacity — scars land considered sacred by Native Americans.
But the president is not a man of complexity and nuance. He is a man who sees things in gloriously righteous white and suspicious, dangerous black. For him, Mount Rushmore is not complicated. It’s telegenic. His was not an open-armed celebration of American independence and the country’s raucous striving to fulfill its promise. The president had orchestrated a rally — a place where he could wade into a warm embrace of approval…
He stepped to the microphone and settled into his speech, which was not a pleasing pep talk for a country torn into bits. Instead, he warned his Americans that other Americans were a threat to the country. “Our country is witnessing a merciless campaign to erase our history,” Trump warned. “One of their political weapons is cancel culture … This is the very definition of totalitarianism.”
He promised to save the monuments, to defend the monuments, to put the full weight of the federal government into protecting giant hunks of stone and bronze. And why not? It’s so much easier to cordon off a statue, to surround it with police officers, than it is to come to terms with the blood and the glory, the cruelty and good will that built this country and that haunts it.
Trump derided “social justice.” He referenced Martin Luther King, Jr., whose words have been so repeated, so decontextualized by errant politicians, that they’ve become rhetorical armor. Everyone claims King. Some stand on his shoulders; some hide behind him…
He will defend the Second Amendment and never defund the police. The former is part of the oath he takes as president; the latter is not up to him. No matter. They are his campaign cherry bombs.
The crowd chanted: “USA, USA.” The crowd demanded “four more years.” The president did not discuss the coronavirus, which has killed more than 130,00 Americans. The crowd did not seem to care.
Trump left the microphone with a promise to the crowd that the best is yet to come. If the president assured the country of anything on this night, with his buzzwords and generalities, with his us versus those other Americans tone, it was that the monuments would be safe.
He would defend the American fable, the mythology. The truth would go missing…
Reminder: The guy talking about the threat from protesters is the same guy who does nothing while Russia pays bounties for dead American soldiers.
— Quentin Hardy (@qhardy) July 4, 2020
Answer: This speech
Question: What is the kind of speech most likely to convince suburban voters, women and college educated voters he's bonkers?— Jennifer Rubin (@JRubinBlogger) July 4, 2020
Notable reaction to @POTUS mentioning Frank Sinatra in his speech at Mt. Rushmore. pic.twitter.com/9oZc20o1pW
— Steve Herman (@W7VOA) July 4, 2020
If history is any indication, future Trumpists gonna put up a statue of the coronavirus, christen “Fort COVID-19.”
Lol jk there is no future.
— dismantle the mpd (@anamariecox) July 4, 2020
Trump obviously has no idea what words like facism and totalitarianism mean. To those who wrote that speech, shame on you. To those that cleared on this speech, shame on you. Perhaps the most un- American speech ever delivered by an American president, on the eve of July 4th.
— Michael McFaul (@McFaul) July 4, 2020
I just watched my sister get arrested for #DefendingTheSacred Black Hills. She was beautiful. GIVE TO THE BLACK HILLS BAIL AND LEGAL DEFENSE FUND IF YOU ARE ABLE, and please share either way ?? https://t.co/JzQdjbztAU
— Lily Gladstone (@lily_gladstone) July 4, 2020
David Evans
Trump looks at the whole mountain and thinks “Room there for me and my family”
debbie
I’m picturing this Garden of Heroes and laughing my ass off. Perhaps it should be located at Mar-a-Lago while he’s serving out his prison term.
Ladyraxterinok
NPR has posted a video of 5 young descendants of Frederick Douglass reading parts of his famous 4th of July speech on how a slave views Independence Day.
Very moving
After the reading, they talk a bit about how they view today’s protests
Elizabelle
I disagree with McFaul that Trump does not know what fascism is. It is what he and Bannon and their ilk promote. I suspect he admires Mussolini, even as he wants to avoid his mortal end. Trump just pulled the usual projection WRT deploying that word against those who are actually fighting it.
Trump’s speech did not make me ashamed to be an American. Because I never voted for, and never ever once supported the bastard. He does not speak for me, or to me. It made me ashamed for those who continue to support him, though, and especially for those who attended the Mt. Rushmore and Tulsa speeches. For shame.
Old Dan and Little Ann
I watched 45 minutes of that clown. Shiver. He said he’d sign an executive order to build statues of the greatest Americans in history. Can’t wait to the details.
Ladyraxterinok
I believe the tweet about her sister being arrested dates from tbe Keystone pipeline protests #defendthesacred
randy khan
I guess he’s resolved the question of whether to continue to appeal to his base or try to broaden his appeal so he can win re-election.
Ladyraxterinok
@Old Dan and Little Ann:
Have seen some fear he is thinking about Scalia!
Baud
@Old Dan and Little Ann:
I’m honored, but no thanks, Trump.
Baud
MattF
Reports say Trump delivered a ‘divisive’ speech, which is… a euphemism. Trump, to pump up his hard-core fans, said that a race war would ‘solve’ our current problems. Maybe it was actually Miller who wrote the words, but it was what Trump wanted and ordered up. Anyone who suggests that that Trump could plausibly ‘broaden his appeal’ or be less ‘tone-deaf’ is deeply delusional.
different-church-lady
Oh, but they will. It’s only a matter of time, and they’ll be caring about it personally…
SFAW
@Baud:
As if you’re an American, you commie.
SFAW
I don’t recall if I ever read that speech in the original German.
different-church-lady
@SFAW: Baud is as American as any of us, Comrade!
planetjanet
I am having difficulty suppressing a giggle reading that Kimberly Guilfoyle, DJT, Jr’s girlfriend tested positive when she arrived for the rally in South Dakota. She and DJT, Jr have been quarantined, though he has tested positive so far.
Amir Khalid
@David Evans:
Corrected to reflect Der Scheißgibbon’s self-centredness.
Hungry Joe
When I visited Mt. Rushmore many (many!) years ago, it reminded me of seeing the Mona Lisa: 1) you can’t get very close to it, and 2) yup, it looks just like its pictures. Never again gave it any thought, but that aerial shot is a shocker. It really is a scar — grotesque, Brobdingnagian kitsch.
HumboldtBlue
Protesting Mt Rushmoore??? I DONT THANK SO
JPL
@Baud: but you could take Scalia’s place
SFAW
@Ladyraxterinok:
I saw what I think is the current list. It included Scalia. Surprisingly, it did not appear to include any Confederate generals nor politicians. Of course, the list had the word “including,” so maybe Bobby Lee and Jeff Davis get added later, when no one’s looking.
Actually, here’s the relevant part of the Exec Order:
Scalia? Reagan? Graham? Patton but not Grant? WTF ?
SFAW
@different-church-lady:
Da, tovarishch!
planetjanet
@SFAW: Putin???? That must be major league trolling.
Frankensteinbeck
@Elizabelle:
I am convinced, no hyperbole, that Hitler is his personal idol. He is a literal Nazi.
zhena gogolia
I just saw this exchange from last night on BJ:
My reply would have been, “He should be on Mt. Rushmore in exactly the same way as Martin Landau was on/off Mt. Rushmore . . .”
SFAW
@planetjanet:
That was just my little joke, thrown in there to see if anyone was paying attention. The rest of the list is accurate, however.
Hungry Joe
@SFAW: Patton was a vicious, out-front, in-your-face (or in my face, anyway, if I’d been around) anti-Semite. Fuck him.
planetjanet
@SFAW: I bow to your trolling skills.
Mallard Filmore
@different-church-lady:
If Trump is reelected, we could reach that magic 2 million mark.
SFAW
@zhena gogolia:
Your proposal is acceptable
Calouste
@Hungry Joe:
A couple of years ago I saw the statue of David by Michelangelo and 1) you can get really close to it 2) seeing it live gives a totally different impression than the pictures.
SFAW
@Hungry Joe:
Didn’t know he was an anti-Semite. My limited “knowledge” indicates that he was not a particularly good general, except when pursuing a retreating enemy. Either way, he shouldn’t be one of the first-cut list.
ETA: “Knowledge” because I don’t really know, I just recall reading that somewhere, possibly here.
Laura Too
@HumboldtBlue: I am never on soon enough to let you know how much I value you! I always end up looking through the comments way after the thread is dead.Thanks for always finding tweets to fit the occasion and your input.
Emma from FL
@SFAW: VLADIMIR PUTIN?!
Ruckus
Is anyone surprised by this speech, this hate rally?
shitforbrains has decided that he’s not getting reelected so he’s going full racist hate. Yes I know that he’s been a massive racist for his entire life. And that the people that work for him are massive racists as well. I’d bet that a number of people didn’t know this about him or know how little he knows past the hate. But it doesn’t take intelligence to hate, it helps to have a lack of intelligence to hate to his degree. And he’s far enough gone to have lost all his filters. He doesn’t care that 130,000 Americans have died at his hands, as long as a portion of them are black, he’s fine with it, probably more than fine with it. He’s going to continue to do crap like this racist rally, because this is who he is. He got elected and quite probably thinks it’s because of his views. He gets support for his views from an ever narrowing bit of America, because while racism is strong here, it isn’t as strong as he and his supporters believe. They don’t hide in white robes and dunce cones for nothing.
HumboldtBlue
Thank you and I’m glad to help. It’s a site populated by the extraordinarily educated which I ain’t but we still need a clown.
All I need are my copy-paste skills .
SFAW
@Emma from FL:
As I said to planetjanet, it was just my little joke. The rest of the list is accurate, however.
Obvious Russian Troll
My wife–no Trump supporter herself–is currently watching the Trump speech on youtube. I am currently questioning her sanity.
Keith P.
@zhena gogolia: That’s a pretty solid bet
Hungry Joe
@SFAW: Patton: “Harrison and his ilk believe that the Displaced Person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies particularly to the Jews, who are lower than animals.”
SFAW
Unrelated to the Traitor-in-Chief’s speech, but this caught my eye:
The thing I don’t get is the “(of all people!)” assholery. Not sure what connection/insult he’s trying to imply. Seriously: I have no idea what attempted insult he’s trying to make.
patrick II
Nice metaphor, but when did Lincoln become a profoundly flawed person? He was a good man from the beginning.
SFAW
@Hungry Joe:
I didn’t doubt you; it was just that I hadn’t heard about his anti-Semitism until you noted it. But thanks for the quote, I guess. [“I guess” because I get perturbed when I see shit like that from, for example, the Racist-in-Chief.]
SFBayAreaGal
@Calouste: I saw the statue of David when I was in Florence. The pictures do not convey the beauty of the statue of David.
Hungry Joe
@Calouste: Yes, the David is … astonishing. I just kept walking around it, first one way, then the other. My father (I was a teen) stage-whispered to me, “It’s not that impressive. You just take a big block of marble and chip away everything that doesn’t look like David.”
Years later I learned that that’s a VERY old joke.
WaterGirl
@HumboldtBlue: I truly can’t tell anymore.
Was that parody? Or for real?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Hungry Joe:
I delivered your greeting to Scalzi yesterday. You should go on over there and see.
sdhays
@SFAW: I don’t want waste braincells pondering the details of another one of Dump’s stupid, racist insults, but I am finding it harder to ignore this one from the COVID-19 thread:
WTF is he trying to say?
RepubAnon
@debbie: Why do I think the Garden of Heroes will be all white men, and omit anyone who challenged the American myths? Will Colin Kaepernick be in that Garden? O will they instead have Nathan Bedford Forrest? Or perhaps a plaque honoring the white men who burned down black houses in Tulsa.
Funny thing – the right has been suppressing inconvenient truths for years, and calling it “patriotism.” Any attempt to point out what really happened is greeted with screams of “cancel culture”.
Note: If Trump supporters tell the Cherokees to go home, can they retrace the Trail of Tears?
Another Scott
@zhena gogolia: There’s a picture floating around with him smirking with the carving in the background, obviously posed to show what it would like were he up there (next to Lincoln).
Everything he touches turns to crap.
January 20 cannot come soon enough.
Cheers,
Scott.
JeanneT
@patrick II: He was a good man, but he was still a racist, believing whites and blacks were inherently different and incompatible. He hoped for some time to settle emancipated slaves to Africa or to Central America. See https://www.theroot.com/did-lincoln-want-to-ship-black-people-back-to-africa-1790858389
Don K
@Hungry Joe:
All the more reason to have him on the list. I’m honestly surprised Henry Ford didn’t make the cut – anti-Semite, check; anti-union, check; revered industrialist, check.
sdhays
@JeanneT: He was representative of a deeply racist culture, but one of his strengths was his ability to be convinced otherwise. He was less racist at the end of his life than he was at the beginning of his Presidency. If he had lived, who knows where he would have ended up.
We should have more monuments to Thaddeus Stevens, who was more than a hundred years early in his thinking
ETA: Also what made Lincoln an effective politician was that he wasn’t too far ahead of the rest of the culture, so he was able to bring part of the country with him on his evolution. We lost a lot when he was murdered. I think Israel possibly lost a similar amount when Rabin was murdered.
p.a.
@RepubAnon: “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel”- Dr. Samuel Johnson.
“Patriotism is the first refuge of scoundrels”- some wag during the W years, I believe.
Ken
@sdhays: Maybe someone told him the virus is alive? So we have to kill that life because it is bad life?
Either that or he’s one of Saberhagen’s Berserkers.
Hungry Joe
@p.a.: I believe it was Ambrose Bierce, in “The Devil’s Dictionary.”
germy
@JeanneT:
Ghana to black Americans: Come home. We’ll help you build a life here
scav
How thoughtful (?) of Herr TrumpenDump to spell out his Garden of Heroes fertilizer pack ingredient list! In the mean time, the national garden is so over-abundantly supplied with his own trademarked bullshit that our needs are covered for the immediate future.
danielx
A real national anthem!
Ladyraxterinok
@SFAW:
Putin?? Kidding, right??
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Remember Trump’s fake Civil War battle memorial at one of his golf courses; want to bet that the key point for Trump in the Garden of Heroes project it will be on some shuttered Trump property?
germy
Frankensteinbeck
@SFAW:
In Trump’s mind, Elizabeth Warren is universally known to be a dumb, bad person who does dumb, bad things and has been defeated by smart, good Donald Trump many times before. There is no need for him to explain, because everyone knows.
Martin
If you put a gun to his head, Trump could not name the 4 presidents on Mt Rushmore, even while looking at it.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Hungry Joe: Yes, that is a surprise, I was thinking it was on the side of some dramatic cliff like The Lion Monument in Switzerland, not looking like a recent landslide on crumbling pile of rocks.
Ladyraxterinok
@Ruckus:
Obligatory reference to this song from South Pacific You’ve Got to be Carefully Taught
WaterGirl
@sdhays:
Yes.
Frankensteinbeck
@Martin:
I’m not sure I know. Looking at the photo, I guess that’s Washington, Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt, and Lincoln? Ah, yep. Looked it up. At least I can recognize them. Mount Rushmore is something I never think about.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Old Dan and Little Ann: Can an executive order obligate funds? I’m pretty sure the answer is no.
But I guess he could steal some more from the military.
germy
patrick II
@JeanneT:
@sdhays:
Lincoln always believed in black people’s basic humanity. He believed in the “gold” of the Declarations’s basic assertion that all men are created equal, and they are equal in the eyes of God, and should be treated equally before the law.
What he didn’t believe, despite us being equal in the important sense of law and God, that we were the same. And, though people are loathe to admit it, we are not all the same. We have different cultural biases and some physiological ones as well, but so what. We all deserve to be treated with the respect due equals.
In Lincoln’s time slaves were not allowed to read, most blacks were not well educated, there culture had been mostly isolated from whites. He did not know that if freed they would do well here. But as time went by and his travels broadened his views about black’s capabilities changed. Espeically after he met
StephenFrederick Douglass, whom he considered intellectually equal (at least) to any man he had met.And that realization was possible because of the basic tenant of equality that was the underpinning of his approach. A true racist would never be open to Douglass’s intellect — just like Trump (and too many others) think Obama isn’t that smart because he can’t be because Trump has superior genes. He can’t see it.
When Lincoln was a lieutenant in the Black Hawk war, he challenged some soldiers to a duel to prevent them from hanging an Indian. He was on a trip back home to Springfield and met a black barber. They traveled the rest of the way together and Abe invested in and helped him open a barbershop. He did not smoke or drink, and he would not even hunt as a young man living on small farm in backwoods Illinois.
I think many people who call Lincoln racist do not have as sophisticated an understanding of race, rights, and equality as Lincoln did from early in his life.
It came down to treat people with respect and as equal in the most essential ways. The less important differences can be dealt with.
edit: to correct the name
JPL
@Ruckus: You might be right and that will allow them to hold hate marches fully attired.
germy
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@JeanneT: Lincoln thought that until Fredrick Douglas talked some sense into Lincoln.
JPL
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I wonder if it will have an ark?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
My favorite red hat Brent gives us Libertards a piece of his mind about Mt Rushmore,
https://youtu.be/j-I1-c-pRTc
That’s right, what about the gift shop there?
Ladyraxterinok
@sdhays:
IIRC the Mennonites who were invited by Penn to settle in PA colony very early set forth a proclamation condemning slavery
BTW I learned when doing genealogy that many Mennonites migrated south and settled in the Shenandoah Valley of VA
Brachiator
@JeanneT:
It may be unfair to hold Lincoln accountable for everything he ever contemplated and ignore what he actually did, and how this reflected a change in his attitudes.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
That would be prefect in it’s absurdity
prostratedragon
Antidote: John Lewis: Good Trouble
Rep. Lewis’s careers as activist and Congressman, emphasizing his work on voting rights. Also, there are chickens. And a cat. And you’ll end up happy.* Streaming info at the link, or you can rent it at Prime or through YouTube tv.
______
* And damned ready to vote!
prostratedragon
@SFAW: And they should all have archaic smiles.
Wyatt Salamanca
In order to cleanse yourselves after reading or hearing the putrid, venomous bile that Trump spewed in his disgusting Mount Rushmore speech, I urge you all to read this amazing Frederick Douglass speech:
“What to the Slave Is the Fourth of July?” https://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/what-to-the-slave-is-the-fourth-of-july
Douglass delivered the speech on July 5, 1852 in Rochester, New York, addressing the Rochester Ladies’ Anti-Slavery Society. It should be required reading for all Americans and if we lived in a just, rational society it would as familiar and recognizable as the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Gettysburg Address.
I look forward to the day when we elect to the Presidency someone who has a fraction of the capacity for learning, understanding, and analysis that Frederick Douglass clearly possessed:
h/t https://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/what-to-the-slave-is-the-fourth-of-july
NotMax
‘Twas a rendezvous with sophistry.
patrick II
Dammit. I said Stephen Douglass instead of Fredrick Douglass. Sorry. The rest still stands.
different-church-lady
@Brachiator: I think it’s kind of cool the way we’re going to tear down all the statues and rename all the stadiums and still have a bunch of congress critters and judges hardening the concrete on systemic racism because voting is a waste of effort when you don’t get the candidate you want. Way to go, online left!
Bruuuuce
I would LOVE it if Joe Biden asked Senator Duckworth to be his VP (she’s not the only one I’d love, but she is up there).. Here’s a sample of why:
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
I wonder what the right-wing response to this framing would be? Probably some variant of “You libs just hate America.”
WaterGirl
@patrick II: I added the correction, if that’s not okay, let me know and I’ll change it back.
JoyceH
@patrick II: As an experience in cognitive dissonance, there’s a black church in Roanoke with a stained glass window memorializing Stonewall Jackson. The church was founded by the descendants of slaves who were taught to read by Jackson.
different-church-lady
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Wow, that’s quite an endorsement of Biden.
Warblewarble
let history call it “The Roast Chicken Racist Rant”
The Moar You Know
I’d like to see a law that forbids people from blasting apart mountains in a wretched attempt to turn them into monuments. Rushmore looks like shit. Stone Mountain even worse. The Crazy Horse Memorial. They all look like shit. Subpar artwork sitting in the middle of a giant pile of rubble.
Feel free to revoke the law the day that humans can create anything that’s more beautiful that what nature herself put there.
patrick II
@WaterGirl:
thank you.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Brachiator:
How is it unfair? He was a flawed man and probably fundamentally a good person, but his beliefs regarding resettlement of POC was always racist. He just wasn’t as racist as many of his contemporaries
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@The Moar You Know:
To be fair to the Crazy Horse Memorial, it’s not finished yet
Bill Arnold
@SFAW:
Saw that, ctrl-f putin [enter] to see what the rest of the thread had to say. Yes, we pay attention. :-)
rikyrah
HumboldtBlue
@WaterGirl: parody
cain
It is part of the same disease – rigid ideologues cannot see the forest for the trees. Their aim is to repudiate everything – and so nuance is tossed out. It’s one of the things that we must guard against when working social justice that people are complex and the more you know them the harder it is to put them in boxes.
JoyceH
@The Moar You Know: The other day, I saw a picture of what Mount Rushmore was supposed to look like. The original plan was to depict the four presidents from the waist up, but the project ran out of money in 1941. When you know that and then look at the monument as it is, geez, Lincoln’s face isn’t even finished! He looks like he’s emerging from primal ooze or something.
And as I saw some clips of the fireworks last night, it looked to me like there were cracks on Jefferson’s face and on Lincoln’s. I don’t know if that’s surface stuff than could be repaired, or if the whole thing is starting to crumble.
NotMax
Probably ought to mention there’s already this:
different-church-lady
No, seriously, it’s going to be great when all the universities are no longer named after white men who have been dead for centuries and as a result cops realize they can’t drive their knees into the necks of black people any more.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@different-church-lady:
Imagine if Biden had come out and started speaking, trashing Trump
Kay
I didn’t realize the “privately-funded Trump wall” was actually a way to win federal contracts from corrupt Trump appointees, although I suppose I should have. There’s always a grift in there somewhere.
prostratedragon
Alex Dumas, an Afro-Frenchman who became the top cavalry officer in the Revolutionary army. His statue was melted down by the Nazis, who objected to his color, and eventually replaced by the French with a sculpture depicting chains and a shackle. His son was the writer.
Steeplejack
Movie note: 1776 is coming up in a bit on TCM: 2:30 EDT.
trollhattan
@Bruuuuce:
I’d be chuffed at VP Duckworth. What is the current Illinois succession scheme for replacing a senator? They have a…um…bit of history in that regard.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@JoyceH:
Huh, you’re right. It really does look like unfinished. You can see that Washington’s upper body was started
prostratedragon
@trollhattan:
Yeah, no shit! According to Ballotpedia it’s still the same: governor appoints a replacement to serve until the next state general election. Fortunately, the present governor is Democrat JB Pritzker, who’d be unlikely to do anything dumb.
Citizen Alan
@SFAW: I imagine if Shitgibbon actually did order the creation of a Patton statue, he would insist it look like George C. Scott.
trollhattan
@Kay: I’ve worked on hundreds of levee repair studies and workplans. That fencing will not last w/o being anchored really, really deep. The map shows a dramatic river bend, which results in complex hydrology that will concentrate force in small bank segments. Rivers change their course. It’s what they do.
NotMax
@trollhattan
Did you drive your Chevy to the levee? And was it dry?
:)
sdhays
@different-church-lady: I expect that universities will solve the problem of being named after racist dead white men by selling naming rights like stadiums have.
“FedEx College” anyone?
Martin
@The Moar You Know: I agree.
We have Rushmore on land that the Supreme Court says was stolen from the Lakota, and that will need to be dealt with. I’m not sure what they’re going to do with Stone Mountain but I can’t imagine it will make the mountain look better.
But we need to move into an era where we are more attuned to the world around us. Carving mountains are just a celebration to our ability to conquer nature, and that’s completely the wrong attitude right now.
Another Scott
@The Moar You Know:
Reuters:
+1. That would be money very well spent.
Cheers,
Scott.
Bruuuuce
@trollhattan: Per https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/vacancies-in-the-united-states-senate.aspx, Illinois is a state where the governor appoints a replacement until the next regularly scheduled general election. Because IL’s governor is a Democrat, I feel reasonably confident that the replacement he chose would also be one (though Illinois Dems are weird), which is why I can endorse the Senator as strongly as I do
ETA: What prostratedragon said, first.
JoyceH
I’m wondering when Virginia is going to get around to renaming Jefferson Davis Highway. We have a Democratic legislature and a Democratic governor for the first time in decades, might be time to do it.
patrick II
@trollhattan:
In a “I’m not saying this because I want to be Vice President” way, she has been making a hell of an impression lately.
NotMax
@Another Scott
Suggested some time back planting kudzu and nurturing it for six months.
;)
sdhays
@JoyceH: Amen. One of the most jarring aspects of moving to Virginia was encountering the Lee Highway and the Jefferson Davis Highway. Fuck those guys. I try to use the route names, but it confuses my wife.
Hoodie
@The Moar You Know: My dad used to say his idea of a great 4th of July party would be a battery of 150mm howitzers blasting that shit off of Stone Mountain.
Martin
@Another Scott: You really can’t bring in the history of Stone Mountain State Park without also noting that it was opened on the 100th anniversary of Lincoln’s assassination.
Even in 1965 they were pissed that slavery ended.
JoyceH
@sdhays: And do you notice? Nobody says “Davis Highway”. It’s always “Jefferson Davis Highway”. And the clown wasn’t even a Virginian.
Another Scott
@sdhays: We refer to the JD Highway as “Route 1”, and Lee Highway as “US 29/Route 29” also too.
Similarly, the airport is DCA/National.
Cheers,
Scott.
NotMax
@JoyceH
From 2019:
Jefferson Davis Highway to Be Renamed Richmond Highway in Arlington
Cheryl from Maryland
RE: the “National Heroes” Sculpture Garden. UGH. The poverty of thought which went into that list angers me (well, it’s another addition to the list). No artists, no writers, no one from the arts, as well as bad choices and most choices from the World Book Children’s Encyclopedia of the 1950s. Where’s Mark Twain, Herman Melville, Paul Dunbar, W.B.E. DuBois, Paul Robeson, Arthur Rubenstein, Jackson Pollock, Mark Rothko, Dr, Suess, Charles Schultz, Billy Wilder, Frank Capra, Howard Hawks, Jonas Salk, Erwin Schrodinger, and so on and so on. Patton and MacArthur rather than Eisenhower and Bradley? No George Marshall? No U.S. Grant? Scalia rather than John Marshall or Thurgood Marshall or Earl Warren or even Oliver Wendall Holmes? Daniel Boone rather than Lewis and Clark? Faugh.
raven
@Another Scott: The interesting thing is the diversity of the town surrounding the mountain. I attended a couple of conferences and climbed the mountain for sunrise. They have gates where local residents come in to walk, run and bike on the trails and they are largely African American. Here’s sunrise looking toward Athens.
NotMax
@Cheryl from Maryland
See the list included at the link in #101 above. Nothing’s perfect, but it’s a far better extant mix.
sdhays
@Cheryl from Maryland: I think SFAW put more thought into adding Putin to the list than was put into the actual list.
Calouste
@sdhays: Have you tried calling them the Traitor General Highway and the Traitor President Highway?
Brachiator
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
The historical record is not clear as to whether Lincoln’s ideas about colonization were simple racism or reflected a “belief that white racism in a post-slavery United States would continue to plague African-Americans to the point that their future could only be secured abroad.”
His discussions with black leaders and the inclusion of black troops seemed to have an impact on his actual proposals.
His pessimism about the persistence of white racism was not far from the mark. And here, Lincoln’s biggest defenders would like to believe that he would have persuaded white Americans to become more accepting.
But if course, we can never know what he might have done had he not been murdered.
A useful link
raven
Folks going up Stone Mountain for sunrise. Hint, these are not confederates.
NotMax
@Brachiator
His record of tweets provides no clue.
:)
Mike in NC
Andy Rooney was a war correspondent in Europe during WW2. He said he hated Patton because he was a cruel bully who cared little for his men.
Kay
@trollhattan:
Trump hired him off an appearance on Fox News. I wonder how many of those there are over the last 3 years- Fox news appearance selling the proposal to Trump/ multi-billions in federal contracting. I think that’s exactly what happened with the covid 19 cure grift. Maybe Fox even gets a kickback.
He’s such a sucker, Trump. He awards federal contracts on the basis of what is essentially an informercial on Fox.
sdhays
@Another Scott: It’s “National Airport” in our house too.
raven
@Mike in NC:
He was one of the first American journalists to visit the Nazi concentration camps near the end of World War II, and one of the first to write about them. During a segment on Tom Brokaw‘s The Greatest Generation, Rooney stated that he had been opposed to World War II because he was a pacifist. He recounted that what he saw in those concentration camps made him ashamed that he had opposed the war and permanently changed his opinions about whether “just wars” exist.
sdhays
@Calouste: My wife struggles with street names as it is, so it’s better to just stick with what’s on the signs, I’m afraid.
Just One More Canuck
@NotMax:
And what would happen if the levee breaks? Would you have a place to stay?
raven
@NotMax: Even thought it’s hotter than shit the princess wants to go for a ride in my 66 chevy so off we go!
Kay
different-church-lady
@sdhays: I think you’re kinda missing my point here…
NotMax
@raven
Her finger healed?
raven
@The Moar You Know: You can’t see the Stone Mountain carving from anywhere outside the park.
JoyceH
@sdhays: ” My wife struggles with street names as it is, so it’s better to just stick with what’s on the signs, I’m afraid.”
What’s fun is using Map Quest and hearing how the automated voice pronounces some of the street names.
raven
@NotMax: Yea, not bad at all, she didn’t lose the nail either. She’s making her famous blueberry slaw to go on the turkey dogs!
patrick Il
@Cheryl from Maryland:
Scalia ?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cheryl from Maryland:
Patton and MacArthur connect with his maladjusted eighth-grader’s understanding of “tough”
Steeplejack (phone)
Brent Terhune sorts out the Mt. Rushmore thing.
NotMax
@raven
Have one with mustard and kraut in memory of Carl Reiner.
;)
WaterGirl
@HumboldtBlue: oh, thank god! I was halfway in before it even occurred to me that it was parody. so well done.
James E Powell
@prostratedragon:
He’s clearly no Blagojevich, but in American politics, never bet against dumb.
WaterGirl
@rikyrah: I thought I had spent all my tears today sobbing as I watched Pete Seeger from 2009, and afterwards.
But no, I cried again as I watched this. Thanks so much for posting this.
James E Powell
@Another Scott:
We could raise that with a gofundme on a weekend.
Another Scott
@raven: My dad took us there and we rode the gondola up to the top around 1970 (when we lived in Smyrna), before the carving was done. It’s an amazing place.
But the sculpture is an abomination. The gondola lines pass nearby.
A few years ago, a conference I usually go to almost every year was scheduled there. It was a hard pass for me.
Sorry.
Cheers,
Scott.
japa21
@Steeplejack (phone): I expect Trump to retweet that soon.
trollhattan
@Another Scott:
The Taliban will do it for free.
trollhattan
@NotMax:
Fun story: I was passenger in a Chevy that rolled off a levee, luckily on the land side. ’64 Corvette convertible, we landed upside-down and had to dig ourselves out through the dirt. I was afraid it would catch fire before we got out, because teevee.
Baud
@Kay:
Can’t get worse than an infinite ratio.
NotMax
@Baud
Immediately goes on the list of potential band names.
raven
@Another Scott: The gondola line at sunrise.
raven
That was a stupid idea. We hate leaving the old boy so I picked him up and put him in the cab and it was WAY to hot.
WaterGirl
@trollhattan: Holy shit!
raven
@trollhattan: It wasn’t in Southern Illinois was it?
WaterGirl
@raven: While I’m at it, I’ll say holy shit to your comment, also.
Heidi Mom
@The Moar You Know: Crazy Horse never allowed a photograph to be taken of him, so imagine what he’d think of the memorial.
Another Scott
@raven: Thanks. :-)
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
@WaterGirl: Which one?
JeanneT
@sdhays: I can’t argue with that!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@sdhays: It’s National Airport here too.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@NotMax: The mustard is a myth, there is no mustard.
raven
Ok , there used to be a place in Grand Tower, Il called Ma Hales, great food served “family style”. The was a road that ran from Carbondale to Grand Tower that was on a levee and I knew some people who got in a wreck there. I looked it up and ended up seeing “Chester, Il, Home of Popeye and they have a bunch of statues on the Popeye Trail!
raven
@WaterGirl: Please release my very interesting post!
Suzanne
@Elizabelle:
So Mr. Suzanne and I have been talking about how, not too long from now, lots of people are going to deny that they ever voted for him. They will want that to just go down the memory hole. There are a few people in my social cohort who I will NEVER let forget it. I will screenshot their social media if I have to.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Kay: That’s easy; polling costs money. The Republicans group are about girfting off their rich and dumb donors.
raven
Well shit, here’s a link to the Popeye Character Trail. These statues must go!
trollhattan
@raven:
Stockton, California. Cultural hub of the northern bit of San Joaquin Valley.
raven
@Heidi Mom: Did you know Geronimo was held at Ft Pickens in Pensacola?
Geronimo – Pensacola’s First Major Tourist Attraction
By Katie King
133 years ago this October, a train arrived into the port city of Pensacola, all the way from the wild west, carrying a very famous passenger.
His name was Geronimo. He was a legendary Apache warrior and leader.
But unlike most visitors to our shores, Geronimo certainly did not come to Pensacola for it’s beautiful, sugar-white beaches.
On October 25, 1886, 16 Chiricahua Apache warriors were captured by the U.S. government and sent to Fort Pickens on the edge of Pensacola Beach where they were locked behind bars.
This is a lesser-known chapter in our American history books.
After the Civil War ended, the U.S. Government brought its military to bear against the native peoples out west, removing them from their lands, forcing them onto reservations and then continually constricting those reservations.
The Apache natives were known as fierce warriors, and the government’s policy of removal and confinement naturally led to many deadly confrontations in the mid 1870s. Facing the loss of their homelands, bands of Apaches who were once hostile to one another were now forced together, united in their distrust of the American government due to broken promises. As conditions on the reservation worsened, some bands escaped.
In the mid 1870s Geronimo fled his reservation with a band of followers and spent the next 10 years raiding with his band. They raided across New Mexico, Arizona and northern Mexico, successfully evading nearly a quarter of the U.S. Army’s cavalry in that time.
Geronimo and his fugitives’ exploits were highly chronicled by the press. He soon became the most feared Apache and the top target of the Army. His capture even became a personal mission of the President of the United States.
In 1885, Geronimo and some 135 Apache men, women and children left their reservation for the final time. Then in his 60s, Geronimo remained as determined as ever, often pushing his group to cover as much as 70 miles per day to avoid the American cavalry on their trail and raiding countless Mexican and American settlements along the way.
By 1886, the famed warrior’s band was being pursued by 5,000 U.S. soldiers as well as some 3,000 Mexicans. Geronimo was able elude both forces for over five months, but by August, he and his followers had grown weary of life on the run.
On September 4, 1886, Geronimo finally gave himself up to General Nelson Miles at Skeleton Canyon, Arizona. In laying down his arms, he became the last Indian leader to formally surrender to the United States military.
In the following weeks, the Chiricahua Apache were shipped by rail to Florida where they were to be exiled and held as prisoners.
Initially, Geronimo’s band was to be sent to Fort Marion in St. Augustine. Hoping to capitalize on Geronimo’s fame, several prominent Pensacola business leaders lobbied the government to have Geronimo’s group sent to Fort Pickens on Pensacola Beach instead. The petitioners stated Fort Marion was too crowded, and that Army troops from Fort Barrancas could guard Geronimo’s warriors at Fort Pickens.
On October 25, 1886, 16 Apache warriors arrived to Pensacola and were ferried to Fort Pickens. Their wives and children were sent on to Fort Marion in St. Augustine.
Geronimo and his warriors spent nearly two years at Fort Pickens working manual labor. In May 1887, the wives and children of Geronimo’s band were returned to them, but many had died of malaria while in confinement. Eventually the imprisoned Apaches were moved to Mount Vernon, Ala., due to a yellow fever scare, and then later on to Fort Sill in the Oklahoma Territory.
Geronimo spent the last 23 years of his life as a prisoner of war until his death from pneumonia in 1909. In 1913, after 27 years of imprisonment, the Chiricahua Apaches were finally set free and were no longer prisoners-of-war. One-third opted to stay at Fort Sill, while two-thirds moved to the Mescalero Apache Reservation, in New Mexico.
Geronimo and the Chiricaua Apache’s resistance came at a steep cost. The Chiricahua lost loved ones, their lands, their traditional ways of life, and for 27 years their freedom. During Geronimo’s prime, the Chiricahua Apache had numbered 1,200. At the end of the war, in 1886, they numbered 500. By their release in 1913, they numbered only 261.
Historians would later come to define Geronimo’s legacy as one of the most legendary warriors in American history.
Today, Geronimo’s story of continued resistance against tremendous odds continues to inspire thousands of visitors to Fort Pickens every year. There are now over 850 Chiricahua Apache living in the U.S., and the descendants of Geronimo and his band still live on.
https://visitpensacolabeach.com/geronimo-pensacolas-first-major-tourist-attraction-blog/
Baud
@Suzanne:
I hope that’s right. But W. went down the memory hole pretty quickly as soon as the national agenda changed. Maybe Trump will be more memorable.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl:
Have you watched Hamilton yet? I’m bracing myself for “It’s Quiet Uptown” tonight.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Trump is a pretty dumb guy, he likely thinks “fascism” is a bunch of cool looking uniforms and big rallies with lots of people cheering the strong man and utterly no idea about fascism philosophy, such as it is, and wouldn’t even understand it if someone explained it to him.
WaterGirl
@raven: The one I replied to. :-) (pup in the cab, too hot)
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: Not yet. :-(
Turns out that my Apple TV is not generation 4, which you need in order to get the app store, which you need in order to download the Disney+ app. I knew you needed generation 4 for Hamilton, but I thought I had generation 4. Dammit!
I don’t like watching movies on my laptop or iPad screens, especially something like this, so I have to figure out whether it’s worth getting a new Apple TV or a Fire stick.
I have never looked into Fire sticks – never needed that because I have Apple TV – so I don’t know how that works of if that would just be on my computer, also. Haven’t researched that yet.
raven
@trollhattan: Close
raven
THE POPEYE AND FRIENDS CHARACTER TRAIL is spread throughout Chester and to date includes:
?BillinGlendaleCA
@trollhattan: Phil Spector’s current residence.
NotMax
@raven
No Ham Gravy?
Kent
I expect from the historical context he did not oppose slavery until it was a convenient strategy for winning the war.
trollhattan
@WaterGirl:
Was one of those adreneline-drenched events that you, or at least I can’t think about but just react to. Once we were both out of and away from the car, realizing that cuts and bruises were the extent our our injuries, I started shaking and couldn’t stop for what seemed like ages.
Getting home from the countryside was a whole other adventure, since it was midnightish.
Kent
@WaterGirl: Your cheapest and easiest option is to probably pick up a Google Chromecast which are like $30 at Wal-Mart or anywhere else. Then pretty much anything you can stream on your phone/tablet/laptop can be cast onto your TV including Disney+
https://www.cordcutters.com/can-you-watch-disney-plus-chromecast#:~:text=Best%20answer%3A%20Yes%2C%20Disney%20Plus,on%20it%20with%20a%20Chromecast.
WaterGirl
@trollhattan: All the “what if” thoughts will get you, too.
I was in an accident with a semi and I handled it pretty well, emotionally. Until the next day (or the day after) when I went to get my stuff out of the car, and then I burst into tears.
It was horrifying. The driver’s side (me) was smashed in about 2 feet, and if I hadn’t been driving my sporty Subaru that was built like a tank, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be here.
trollhattan
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
That needs to me memorialized somehow. He’s a rebel, donchano.
raven
oops
WaterGirl
@Kent: Well, I can do that now with my screen mirroring from my iPad and my iPhone, but it’s like letterbox gone bad with a huge black box around the mirrored screen, and I don’t want that.
Maybe I can screw around with the settings, but I didn’t have the heart for that yesterday after screwing around with my Apple TV for 2 freaking hours yesterday.
Love my Apple TV, but of course when any equipment gets that old, you are gonna have compatibility issues.
edit: I just have to figure out if now is the time to screw around with trying to make it work in some way just for Disney+ for this one thing, or if I just want to get a new Apple TV that can do 4K and be done with it.
trollhattan
@WaterGirl:
Yeesh. Semis are basically buildings that move. Surviving in even the toughest car depends on a lot of dang luck.
I dealt with it by going back to the site during the day, seeing the skid marks and the path down the thankfully dirt and brush slope. The car was hauled away already but I collected a hunk of the fiberglass body (blue metallic) as a memento.
The water side was boulder riprap and no way in hell would we have survived going down that way.
Elizabelle
@Kent: Popping in to say that Lincoln opposed slavery way before that.
Didn’t he make some speeches against allowing slavery into the “western” states in the 1850s? I remember some speech along the lines of “you wouldn’t put a snake in bed with your child, would you?”
As to what he thought about how the formerly enslaved would fit into the United States after slavery ended, or whether they might want to repatriate … not sure there. I would guess his thinking on a lot of things evolved, and what any politician says in a speech is not necessarily their complete internal mindscape on the issue. Lincoln had a lot on his plate once elected and at war.
Does anyone believe that Barack Obama actually opposed gay marriage, and then had an “epiphany.” I do not. I suspect he was there all along. Everyone has to choose and prioritize their battles.
Robert Sneddon
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: No place for General Groves? One of the greatest American military figures of WWII and barely remembered these days.
NotMax
@Kent
Roku devices without all the bells and whistles are very inexpensive, also too.
Will note there are a very, very few models of Roku which are not compatible with Disney+.
raven
@trollhattan: You see where that guy went off the cliff in Santa Cruz and lived?
Sm*t Cl*de
@NotMax:
“A Certain Ratio” tribute band.
Kelly
I know of two Trump voters that are sensibly scared of CORVID-19 and they are mad at Trump for failing to respond to the pandemic. Their RWNJ issue is the environmental tyranny Democrats want to impose. Spotted owls, off highway vehicle limits, that sort of thing. They’ll probably leave president blank on their ballots. Oregon will go Biden anyway so their votes don’t matter. I’m hoping there’s more like them in the swing states.
Baud
@Kelly:
Ravens scare me too.
(Sorry, Raven.)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Clowns frighten me, as they do with all sensible people.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@NotMax: Looks like even my Roku will work(yeah, finally found it).
Another Scott
@Baud: Who’s “W”? Some baseball commissioner or something??
Cheers,
Scott.
HumboldtBlue
@Elizabelle:
Well-explained.
James E Powell
@raven:
As a child, I found the Bluto/Brutus thing to be very disconcerting.
Kent
@Elizabelle: I’m as much of a Lincoln fan as anyone. But I present to you Lincoln’s First Inaugural Address. I know he was trying to preserve the Union. I understand the context. I’m just pointing out that he didn’t oppose slavery in an official capacity until it was strategically beneficial to do so. In fact he even supported the Fugitive Slave Act.
different-church-lady
@WaterGirl: Remember when TV was a thing you just turned on and it worked?
patrick II
@Kent:
That is wrong. Lincoln had left politics and only got back in after the Dredd Scott decision in 1857. He was always against slavery but thought it would be dissolved as the new western states came in the union and outvoted the South. That idea was changed by the Dredd Scott decision, so Lincoln came back to politics.
I’m not sure why we have to throw rocks at our great men, and in this case perhaps the greatest American in history.
Bob7094
@Cheryl from Maryland:
Scalia, because he couldn’t remember Roget Taney.
Another Scott
@Kent:
Wikipedia – 1860 GOP Platform:
Lincoln was a great politician. But he also had ideals that he wanted to see enacted and knew that doing so would take more than him just saying so.
tl;dr – History, and politicians, is complicated and doesn’t fit into little boxes.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
NotMax
@different-church-lady
Remember hopping up to go across the room in order to adjust the vertical hold?
As a sprat was fascinated with watching the picture close in on itself when the set was shut off, reducing to a pinpoint of light which slowly, slowly, ever so slowly faded away.
;)
Baud
@NotMax:
Another good band name.
Kent
@Another Scott: Look, it’s not my intention to ding on Lincoln. He was clearly our greatest president without exception. I was merely responding to the upstream comment about “flawed men” by suggesting that the author was probably referencing his rather slow opposition to slavery in his official capacity as president. For whatever overall strategic reasons he had. The appeasement he showed to the south in is first inaugural didn’t do any good anyway as the war started a short time later.
Lincoln also initially supported deporting freed slaves back to Africa. His positions and thinking evolved. He didn’t start out where he ended.
different-church-lady
Of course not: you had to keep one hand on the antenna the whole time if you wanted any reception.
Kelly
@Baud: CORVID-19 is my top mespilling the year.
J R in WV
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Worse, if someone were to describe it to him, he would tell you how great that was, and how much he loves that idea. Totally and willfully pig ignorant!
trollhattan
@raven:
Missed it, were either a Thelma or a Louise involved? :-)
Most involuntary flights are a one-time thing. Lucky man!
raven
@trollhattan: It was a carjacking.
Martin
@WaterGirl: We have two gen 4s and they really are much better than the Gen 3 ones. You have the app store, but pushing a desktop to them is trivial, or just a video, or whatever. I have a 4K in my office with an AppleTV hooked up and I can treat it like a 2nd monitor, which is often convenient.
Virtually every network has an app you can install. Most require authentication with your cable provider if you have one. Some don’t.
Supports HDMI-CEC so you can power up the TV from the Apple remote if the TV supports that feature.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
I work next door to a huge body shop that works on late model cars and the other day saw a Honda that looked OK on the passenger side but about 90% of the drivers side was pushed back into the last 10% or was just gone. Car was maybe 3 feet wide, looked like a minor hit from the right. Hit from the front or ran into something rather solid. Over the last 7 yrs I’ve seen some rather beat up cars there, this one was the worst.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl:
Oh, we’re watching it on my laptop. I hope someday it will play safely in movie theaters. But I’m happy with this.
WaterGirl
@different-church-lady: Yep. All 3 channels! :-)
catclub
If the southern representatives had not boycotted the proceedings, a whole lot that Lincoln and his congress got done, would have been stopped.
WaterGirl
@Martin: That certainly nudges me strongly in the Apple TV generation 4 direction. If you post something nice about the gen 4 again tomorrow, that should send me right over the edge. :-)
Or maybe just sleeping on it will do that! thank you
edit: the problem is, I want this also:
12.9-inch iPad Pro
Add the two together, all decked out, and it’s real money. :-)
catclub
I fed raisins to a crowd of crows/ravens in Sri Lanka. They have substantial beaks. I was a bit nervous. and my plan to get one to take a raisin from my hand went out the window.
Martin
@WaterGirl: I have a 12.9″ iPad Pro as well if you have questions.
Another Scott
@catclub: What’s that expression about noses and faces??
The Soviets didn’t learn that lesson before they boycotted the UN in June 1950.
“80 percent of life is showing up.”
One never knows how history will change…
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@Martin: Yeah, do you have 2k lying around that needs a new home? :-)
Seriously though, I appreciate the information offer. I think you were one of the people who spoke up a few weeks ago when I first thought I might like to get one.
My summer client’s business is a no go this year because of COVID, so that’s about 20k less income for me this year. So of course there are two new toys that I want!
Another Scott
@WaterGirl: Does it have to be new?
2nd Gen 12.9-inch IPP for $599.
(I bought a couple of mid-2012 13″ MBPs from them a year or so ago that have been fine.)
Good luck.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@Another Scott: Yeah, I stay away from used and refurbished. I know some people have good luck with that, but in my years in IT, I never saw anyone who did.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Trump would certainly love the whole idea of getting personally rich off stealing stuff from rich Jews like the Nazis did, but I doubt if Trump would listen that long.
Just Chuck
@Martin: I have a Gen 4 Apple TV as well, and while it’s a handy device, I still have a few issues with it: