Thomas Jefferson Portrait Recreated by His Sixth Great-Grandson https://t.co/X0oNNAjWlp pic.twitter.com/VcaoRATlbz
— Karen Williams (@redrustin) July 3, 2020
Countless words have been written about the Declaration of Independence and Thomas Jefferson, but few about Robert Hemings, the slave who was on hand as Jefferson famously declared that “All men are created equal.”https://t.co/QyTuaBQnfJ
— The Associated Press (@AP) July 1, 2020
In the early summer of 1776, Thomas Jefferson worked away in the second floor parlor of a boardinghouse in downtown Philadelphia. Wielding language he would call “plain and firm,” he set down the words that still inspire those seeking justice and liberation, “All men are created equal.”
But Jefferson, among history’s most studied men, didn’t travel from Virginia to Philadelphia alone. He brought with him an enslaved teen named Robert Hemings, whose life and contributions to history — like so many of his status — are stories of what we don’t know…
The eldest of six children, Robert Hemings was born in 1762 into bondage, contradiction and entanglement. His father was the slave owner John Wayles, Thomas Jefferson’s future father-in-law; his mother was a slave, Elizabeth Hemings. Sally Hemings, the enslaved woman with whom Jefferson fathered several children, was Robert Hemings’ sister, and Jefferson’s future wife, Martha Wayles, was his half-sister. Robert Hemings himself would become both Jefferson’s in-law and his property.
The Hemings siblings were brought to Monticello, Jefferson’s home in Virginia, not long after the 1773 death of Wayles. Within the plantation hierarchy, Robert Hemings held a high position and was described once by a friend of Jefferson’s as having “behaved exceeding well.” He was just 12 when Jefferson chose him to replace the 31-year-old Jupiter Evans as his personal attendant. He was dressed more formally than other slaves, was permitted to read and write, travel on his own and to learn a craft, as a barber…
Jefferson kept Hemings close to him until 1784, when, for reasons undetermined, he decided to leave Hemings back in Virginia while he moved to Paris on a diplomatic mission. Hemings, meanwhile, had met a slave named Dolly from another Virginia plantation, and, wishing to marry her, sought emancipation in 1794. “Bob’s business has been hastened into such a situation as to make it difficult for me to reject it,” Jefferson wrote to his son-in-law, Thomas Mann Rudolph.
Jefferson is believed to have freed around 10 slaves in his lifetime, Stanton says, and Hemings was the first, although Jefferson’s role was indirect. He allowed a French emigre in Richmond, Dr. George Frederick Stras, to advance him the purchase price for Heming’s freedom, around $200. Hemings, in turn, would work for Stras and pay off the debt. A letter from Jefferson’s daughter, Martha J. Randolph, suggests Hemings knew well that Jefferson was surprised and unhappy that he wished to leave…
By 1799, Hemings had apparently won his freedom and his name turns up on Virginia tax rolls. Documents indicate he managed a livery or hauling business, lived with his family on a half-acre lot in Richmond and named Jefferson’s son-in-law the executor of his will, which bequeathed all of his holdings to his wife and children…
Preachers, rabbis, imams and other religious leaders will invoke Black abolitionist Frederick Douglass on July 4th as they call for the U.S. to tackle racism and poverty. https://t.co/9OCWNmW9Dp
— AP West Region (@APWestRegion) July 4, 2020
Black Lives Matter groups will hold a virtual national convention, on Aug. 28. Organizers say the convening will produce a new political agenda that builds on the protests calling for officials to defund police and invest in Black communities. https://t.co/jkrY6aVKMg
— The Associated Press (@AP) July 1, 2020
Our nation was founded on a simple idea: We're all created equal. We've never lived up to it — but we've never stopped trying. This Independence Day, let's not just celebrate those words, let's commit to finally fulfill them. Happy #FourthOfJuly! pic.twitter.com/1WrATlx8Xl
— Joe Biden (@JoeBiden) July 4, 2020
Baud
I just finished watching Hamilton. Pretty good, but I think they took some historical licenses. I’m pretty sure the Founders didn’t sing that much.
ETA: Looking forward to the sequel.
WaterGirl
@Baud: What would we do without you, Baud? You are too funny.
NotMax
@Baud
They’ll give it a shot.
;)
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Baud: Is the sequel the one where they include women? (Look around, look around…)
The Lodger
@Baud: Hamilton II: The Hamiltoning
NotMax
@The Lodger
Needs more mass market appeal.
Hamilton vs. Zombies
:)
Baud
@NotMax:
Hamilton vs. Trump
Baud
Sab
@Baud: ?
Baud
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Heh.
Baud
@Sab: !
Jeffro
Hope that BLM convention makes some noise about how they’re just like ALEC, without the lobbying/bribery oh and also not evil.
Ruckus
Compare and contrast to the current office blockade, the man running to replace him. We’ve done a lot worse, in my lifetime.
Jeffro
@Baud: My idiot TCNJ dad still refuses to listen to HAMILTON…apparently the thought of being exposed to a rap song or two is just a bridge too far.
Talk about ‘cancel culture’ LOLOL
Mary G
James E Powell
So many people here spoke well of it that I have to watch Hamilton. I want to wait till I can schedule an uninterrupted time.
Baud
@James E Powell:
It’s nearly three hours long. I watched it over two nights.
Sure Lurkalot
@Ruckus: I couldn’t agree more. Joe might have been in the bottom third of my list from the big field, but I am very impressed with how he frames things.
”We’ve never lived up to it”…honest assessment.
”Let’s commit to finally fulfill them”…aspirational challenge.
I can forgive the split infinitive.
Achrachno
@Jeffro: I’m a bit behind on fashionable acronyms.
TCNJ = Trump Cult Nut Job?
A Ghost to Most
@Jeffro: To be fair, he could be like me, and detest all musicals. But likely, he is just a racist asshole.
Jeffro
@Achrachno: ding ding ding! When “right-wing nut job” just won’t cut it! ;)
Baud
@A Ghost to Most:
¿Por qué no los dos?
Brachiator
@Baud:
Wait. You mean that 1776 was not actual found-footage of the Founders creating the Declaration of Independence?
Baud
@Brachiator:
I didn’t say that.
Jeffro
@A Ghost to Most: He has liked a few musicals in the past. His “entertainment”, such as it is these days, mostly consists of flipping back and forth between Fox, CNBC, and occasionally (just to see what the libs are lying about) CNN.
Not too many books being read, not a lot of music new or old being listened to…it’s just pathetic.
WereBear
@Baud: What? Haven’t you seen the historical document, 1776?
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Much as I love it, I don’t see how I could sit through the whole thing in the theater. We watched Act 1 last night, Act 2 will be tonight.
Geminid
Annette Gordon-Reed wrote a very good history of the Hemings family, The Hemings of Monticello (2008). It’s long (800 pages), but a good read. It won a Pulitzer Prize for History. Gordon-Reed grew up in the small Texas town of Livingston. Now she teaches history at Harvard.
James E Powell
@Jeffro:
I expect FOX to make comparisons with the Beer Hall Putsch.
zhena gogolia
@Jeffro:
Soon after the election, I made some mention of loving Hamilton while my dentist was doing a root canal. He said he could never listen to Hamilton because they were disrespectful to the Vice President, “and he’s a dignitary.” This was in reference to the very respectful speech that Brandon Victor Dixon made to Pence when he did his cynical visit to the show right after the election.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Same here. I never go to the movies anymore either.
namekarB
@Achrachno:
If you don’t keep up with Acronyms you’ll be SOL
brantl
This is off-topic, but just so everyone gets this from the defunct thread. I am not a Nazi apologist. I don’t know if DJT is a Nazi, he is definitely a racist, and a white supremacist. I was only saying that concrete proof is much better that speculative proof, or conjectural proof. Period. I was saying that when making the argument, stick to solid, easy to substantiate PROOF.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
My guess is that the guy wasn’t offended when that GOP rep shouted “You lie” at Obama during the SOTU.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@zhena gogolia:
I guess “disrespect” according to your dentist means “not kissing Pence’s ass”
Another Scott
“A Capitol Fourth” is on PBS now. It opened with “Put a little love in your heart” and was well done. The teasers showed all kinds of choral groups shoulder to shoulder. :-( It is showing clips of performances from all over the country. I hope the shoulder-to-shoulder ones were from the Before Times…
Cheers,
Scott.
Jeffro
@zhena gogolia: Yup. Total projection on ‘cancel culture’, GOP!
Baud
@brantl:
What is your litmus test for Nazis? I’m confident Trump isn’t actually a member of the National Socialist German Workers Party.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Pretty much.
Just to say that like masks, Hamilton is a shibboleth for the right.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I’m an old and have kind of mostly avoided hip-hop, so I expected to be struggling a little with it. But what I realized is that my problem with hip-hop, or at least the songs in Hamilton, is not the music so much but the number of words. There are five hundred thoughts going by in every verse, it’s a lot more intellectually challenging than your standard musical theater song, and it’s going by at a thousand miles an hour. Blink for a millisecond and you’ve missed 10 key plot points.
We’ve seen maybe 1/3 of it so far, and had to keep pausing to say, “wait, what did we just learn?” and “who was that person?” and Googling various things, like who are Hamilton’s drinking buddies. I don’t know how you can absorb this show live.
Or maybe I’m just a moron and a cretin and most people can absorb it just fine.
Peale
@Baud: Can’t really say one way or the other about the singing and dancing. We weren’t really there in the room in real time, so we’ll never know.
NotMax
@namekarB
Used to be a sign prominently displayed behind the bar in an occasionally frequented watering hole in the Poconos:
YCHJCYAQFTJ
25¢
.
If one inquired about it, the bartender would ask for the coin to be paid first and then explain it stood for:
You Curiosity Has Just Cost You A Quarter For The Jukebox.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
So, does anybody know what happened with this?
Dems Working With Trumpsters to Re-Up the Patriot Act
Uncle Cosmo
It’s not “fashionable” – no one ever uses it except him, & he’s only defined it once on this blog, & only because I hassled him until he finally did. And it’s such a compelling idea// that I’ve completely forgotten what he means by it.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@zhena gogolia:
I’d believe it is. Hamilton is a modern, multi-racial reinterpretation of history. Racists (and bootlickers like your dentist) aren’t going to like it
Peale
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I just had to keep making mental notes when I saw it live and hit up wikipedia afterwards with my playbill in hand to sort out the various founders.
Baud
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Closed captioning. Turn it on.
WaterGirl
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I am wondering if, after while, your ear gets tuned to the rhythm and you don’t have to work so hard to take it in. That’s what I’m hoping for, anyway.
Uncle Cosmo
@Jeffro: Sorry, it’s pathetic & superfluous. You ain’t nearly as clever as you think you are, Sparky.
zhena gogolia
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
It’s a complex masterpiece. You can’t absorb it all at one go.
dmsilev
Sometimes, the headline writers just get it right.
Trump’s push to amplify racism unnerves Republicans who have long enabled him
Sab
Husband wants to open up the windows now. 85 degrees, fireworks everywhere, and two dogs and five cats in a panic. Good job protecting the homefront, Jerk.
WaterGirl
When Hamilton first came out, I remember someone, likely Mnem, saying it’s a good idea to listen to the soundtrack before watching Hamilton. Maybe that would help.
Yesterday I watched the Hamilton number that LMM performed at the White House, and it’s true – you have to pay attention every second in order to take in what they are saying. We have all gotten lazy (we all = me) – only half listening to things and doing something else, or thinking about other things while we’re listening.
That’s a terrible habit, and it certainly won’t work with Hamilton!
CaseyL
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Watching at home on the computer allowed me to take liberties I wouldn’t dream of in a theatre; i.e. pausing the stream, opening another tab, and looking up something I didn’t quite get.
I also paused the stream and rewound, to see if I could catch dialog/lyrics I missed.
Achrachno
@Jeffro: Thank you!
A Ghost to Most
A squad of armed black men marched through Stone Mtn today. They call themselves the NFAC (Not Fucking Around Coalition). Well done!
Peale
@Sab: Sounds like you’re under siege. He’ll need to open the window if he’s going to launch the counter-defense.
Jeffro
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: we listened to the soundtrack several hundred times before we got it all. ?
NotMax
Is a Disney crossover in the works?
The Hamilorian
oldgold
Trump tonight: “Together we will fight for the American dream, and we will defend, protect, and preserve American way of life, which began in 1492 when Columbus discovered America.”
Lordy! Where to start.
WaterGirl
@dmsilev: Exactly as I thought!
They aren’t upset with WHAT he’s saying. They fear LOSING POWER. I don’t think there is a single person left who still supports Trump that has a soul.
Jeffro
@Uncle Cosmo: up yours, mon ami
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I haven’t seen Hamilton, but SuperLeftyTwitter has its collective knickers in a twist about how it’s some kind of propaganda for the Obama cult. So I’m glad they’re angry that so many people seem to enjoy it.
WaterGirl
@Sab: Just say no.
Suzanne
@Jeffro:
I hate their bitching about cancel culture so much. Like I irrationally hate it. They “cancel” people and companies all the time, it just doesn’t hurt our feelings because no one cares.
Jeffro
@Achrachno: not a prob – great intuition you have there ?
Jeffro
@Suzanne: it’s their new dog whistle for “we will not be replaced”, imho
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@oldgold: he also gave history of the VietnaDesertStorm War.
I saw a trump campaign ad about Joe Biden’s cognitive decline last week. On MSNBC.
ETA:
Suzanne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: They hate it because high-quality art isn’t being created for/about their cultural milieu. Similar to how Nike ran that ad with Kaepernick and they got all butthurt because a large company with cultural cachet basically said “Right wingers, you’re gross, and we don’t want your money”.
Jeffro
@Suzanne: also, I think they know they are outnumbered in many ways and they are terrified for people to figure out that they can definitely cause change with their pocketbooks
they are certainly terrified of collective action, which is why they do everything they can to pretend it doesn’t exist
dmsilev
@WaterGirl: Yep. It’s a long article, and you’ll search in vain in it for Republicans who denounce Trump’s racism because, you know, racism is bad.
Also, notice how the media is no longer saying things like “Trump’s racially-charged rhetoric” and similar. They’re just flat-out saying “Trump’s a racist”. Only took several years of blatant behavior, but I guess progress?
H.E.Wolf
https://genius.com/Original-broadway-cast-of-hamilton-alexander-hamilton-lyrics
Dorothy A. Winsor
@James E Powell:
It’s in two acts, so you can easily split it that way. The first act is the Revolution; the second is the early days of the new country.
dmsilev
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: SuperLeftyTwitter always has their knickers in a twist about something. Personally, I regard the red-rose icon as a warning mark, similar to the biohazard sigil.
Jeffro
He’s working hard for that one swing voter who is really wound up about Columbus statues being toppled ?@oldgold:
Kent
The woke 17 year olds take on the 4th:
“Let it be known that on this day 244 years ago a bunch of rich old white men got tired of paying their taxes”
She’s not all wrong.
Jeffro
@Suzanne: that’s a great point – they have kid rock, Ted Nugent, Dean Cain, and Scott Baio. ye gods… That’s no way to appeal to the yoots!!
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
There’s a SuperLeftyTwitter? Oh my!
Peale
@dmsilev: Remember “moderate” presidential hopeful John Kaisich? If I recall in his presidential ghost written biography he went on a few pages with an anecdote about listening to his first rap CD in his car and finding it so foul that he threw it out the window and proudly proclaimed that he’d never listened to any of it again. Not saying he had to treat music he didn’t like like some kind of sacred idol, or be forced to try to learn to develop a taste for something that’s beyond him, but just kind of saying the race pandering hasn’t just been a problem for the ostentatious trump types. As if Kaisich spent his time thinking about maybe reaching out to try to win over African American voters in his cities. Push comes to shove, the “cuckervatives” in 2016 gladly and willingly went along with this. So next week when Trump promises to rid the country of these vile foreigners, liberals, gays, and blacks – which he was on the verge of doing in his speech tonight – I doubt they’ll do much pushing back. Its bred in them not to ever reach out and ask for help. Oh, they would never light the match to burn down the neighborhood, but they certainly would finance the PAC who’d divy up the money to buy the matches and certainly would agree to pool their money in a PE deal for an LBO to consolidate the match industry.
Suzanne
@Jeffro: Yes. When they cancel things, it’s a principled decision to spend their money in places that support their dumb values. When we cancel things, we’re the totalitarian mob.
I have said before and I still believe that half of why they hated Obama so much is because he is cool as hell. Meanwhile, the entire GOP is super-thirsty for approval and attention and popularity and their fan base is, like, the grossest part of the country that no one with taste or influence wants to be associated with.
Kent
Civil war in the villages.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-power-video-was-a-glimpse-into-trump-era-political-discourse-in-americas-friendliest-retirement-community/2020/07/04/0ca405dc-bbc0-11ea-8cf5-9c1b8d7f84c6_story.html
Baud
@Kent:
If they lived today, they could have just tweeted about it and saved themselves some misery.
Sab
@Peale: We are under seige, from firecrackers and fireworks. The scared critters are inside and most of them are his special little beasties. Too bad. Toughen up, lambchops.
Grandchildren stopped by and I got within 5 feet of several of them. He was frantic. He said ” You only stopped the little one.” Well yes. She is six and autistic, and wanted to hug me. The others stopped at 5 feet (not 6, and we were all outside, and no one was talking, much less singing.) That was NOT OK.
But now he wants all the windows open. It’s hot. I could say there are pedestrians near the house, which there are, but I am better than that
I will not be cooking dinner tonight. He can eat the damned pie by himself (I had a piece. It was good.)
Grrr. grrr. First world problems.
gwangung
@zhena gogolia:
You should have told your dentist to look up, The Noble Call, a traditional Irish custom.
The Lodger
@Suzanne: Someone will create an opera about the Trump White House once we figure out how the story ends. (The Ivanka/Melania duet is probably on its 14th or 15th draft by now.)
Suzanne
@Jeffro:
They know they are gross. Their aesthetic is cheap and trashy. Like Kaylee McNeenerNeener…. the kind of woman that frat dude bros from universities in Missouri find attractive.
Kent
@Baud: they could have screamed at each other from their golf carts in the villages.
Kay
They’re bailing on us, you guys.
PsiFighter37
Heading to Portland, Maine for a last-minute weeklong remote work/R&R trip. I love that town, and I was somewhat surprised that Maine decided to change the rules last minute, before July 4th, to let people from NY, NJ and CT come (why RI and MA are still restricted is puzzling to me). Nonetheless, we grabbed a very nice AirBnb right in the heart of downtown – looking forward to morning strolls, grabbing lobster rolls to go for working lunches, and enjoying a nice change of scenery. NH was pleasant enough, but not close enough to the water/coast. Can’t wait / fingers crossed that it is a slow work week :)
Jeffro
@Suzanne: Yup. Super cool and competent as hell. CAN’T HAVE THAT!
What has been truly amazing and surprising in recent years, as my kids have gone through their teens, is just how progressive and socially aware and activist and pragmatic they and their generation are. They’re the opposite of my “Reagan baby” generation and thank god. Go “Obama babies!”
Gin & Tonic
@oldgold: Is that an actual quote?
Jeffro
@PsiFighter37: That’s awesome! I have fantasies of going to Maine, seeing Acadia NP and eating nothing but lobster rolls for a few days.
Might have to move that up on the schedule for this fall ;)
Sab
@Peale: John Kasich just wanted to cut taxes to appease his donors. He tried to stomp public unions and got his head handed to him on a platter. But tax cuts was his entire thing otherwise. Everyone is yelling about DeWine backing down, but at least he got some serious standards in place. With Kasich we would be Arizona now.
CaseyL
I may have told this story, but if so it was years ago; and this being Independence Day and all:
I lived in Philadelphia until age 12, and went to public school. Back then, they still taught things like Civics and American History. Almost every year, we went on a field trip to Philly’s Greatest Independence Day Hits: Carpenter’s Hall, Independence Hall, Betsy Ross’ House, the Liberty Bell, etc. etc. My being a kid, and the fact that we went every year, meant that the sites had no impact on me emotionally. I didn’t grasp their importance, except in a “this will be on the test!” sense.
Fast forward about 45 years. I’ve been living on the West Coast for decades, and my aunt invites me to come visit her in Philadelphia. We’ll hit the Bethlehem Music Festival, head out to Ocean City for a few days, have fun. Sounds great, so I go.
I have the days to myself, as my Aunt is still teaching, and Philly has a very decent public transit system, so I go downtown – to what Philadelphians call “Center City.” And I wind up re-visiting the historic sites for the first time in a very VERY long time, and hearing the tour guides’ patter.
The revolutionaries in Philly lived among and amidst British spies. They plotted right under said spies’ noses. Social societies, benevolent societies, even municipal planning meetings – all were used to plan strategies, collect and spread information, all the activities needed to mount a rebellion. The British weren’t stupid, and they would spring sudden arrests and searches, looking for any incriminating documents or information. The mere possession of a building blueprint that noted secret tunnels or storage rooms could lead to an arrest for treason. Betsy Ross sewing anything that looked like a non-approved banner could get her arrested for treason. Just meeting with certain people in the privacy of your home could get you arrested for treason (those Bill of Rights amendments regarding search and seizure were passed for a reason).
It’s hard to describe the impact the information had on me, hearing it as an adult. I think we tend to think of the Revolutionary War as a done deal because, after all, “we” won and it was a long time ago.
But suddenly I was able to perceive it, a little bit, from the revolutionaries’ point of view. For them, it was anything but a done deal. Many of them had family members who were Loyalist Tories: imagine living with someone who could and maybe would turn you in for treason if they happened to find a certain kind of document in your room, or overheard a conversation you were having with a friend/co-conspirator. Imagine walking down the street to a meeting, with plans hidden in a roll of blueprints, or a medical textbook, and watching British spies watching you, wondering if they’d grab you and search you. All for an enterprise that might not happen, might not succeed, might not last.
I had a brief bit of a visceral understanding of what it meant to be plotting rebellion against the British. It was… sobering.
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
You never say anything controversial to someone with sharp instruments poised above your mouth!
PsiFighter37
@Jeffro: Unpopular opinion perhaps – I wasn’t a huge fan of Bar Harbor / Acadia when I went up there. Part of it was that we were looking for more strenuous hiking when we went. The other was that, TBH, the seafood ain’t anywhere as good as it is down closer to Portland area. It also feels very small – after a long weekend, I didn’t feel like we had much else to explore.
We also booked a 2-week trip, which will be purely vacation, before Labor Day (as a substitute for Italy and Spain…oh well). I am hoping things hold steady as they are, but I do see Maine (and even NY’s numbers, although not NYC) starting to tick back up. Kinda worrisome if the part of the country that’s been doing the best after getting hit the hardest starts going the wrong way…
PsiFighter37
@Sab: Kasich is also a pretty hardcore social conservative
Suzanne
@Jeffro: There’s something really powerful about being a coveted demographic that makes people feel good. This is why they sniff about colleges being bad, and gripe about cities, and countless other markers of status and taste. The people who have influence, whose money and association are wanted…. are not them.
zhena gogolia
@debbie:
It was his nurse who asked me what I’d been doing, and I didn’t think that commenting on my recent musical enthusiasms was controversial! I forgot the right-wing way of thinking for a moment.
Kent
I set up an outdoor theatre in the garden last night so the woke 17 year old could have a safe watch party with a couple friends. To my chagrin I will admit I hadn’t previously realized it was an all black cast. I had even scraped up tickets for her and her friends for her birthday when the musical came to Portland in 2017 and suffered a year of hearing the kids sing the soundtrack 24/7 in the car.
I guess I’m just not really a big musical person but I really liked how austere the production was. Very simple set and costumes. It is all the music and story not the special effects.
debbie
@A Ghost to Most:
If only there were photos of the reactions!
P.S. Love the group’s name!
zhena gogolia
@Kent:
You didn’t miss the crashing chandelier and Erik rowing Christine through the sewer while singing “Point of No Return”?
WaterGirl
@dmsilev: I’ll take it. But yeah, they are slow learners!
Baud
@Kent:
You should really let them into the house every once in a while to shower.
debbie
@Sab:
Rotating tag!
lamh36
@Baud: I saw the travelling company show and loved it. So I wasn’t gonna watch the film but I really had to see the original cast and I’m glad I did.
For my money having now seen the original cast and comparing it to the traveling cast, Daveed Diggs steals the show. Which says a lot in a cast with ALOT of standouts. His Thomas Jefferson was fabulous!
I can’t listen to Hamilton’s “One Last Time” without hearing the version that included PBO reading the Washington parts.
Even when I saw the Hamilton travel company, I loved King George’s song. It’s one of the song that got stuck in my head almost instantly. I dare anyone to not have that damn “Da da da dat da dat da da da da ya da
Da da dat dat da ya da” chorus in their damn heads after hearing it…LOL
But HD filming did Jonathan Goff SOOOOO wrong. But apparently, he’s known being ah…excessively “moist” when he sings…ew
zzyzx
I’m envious of those who love Hamilton and wish I could hear what they do. It was OK enough, I guess for me, but I eventually turned it off 40 minutes in last night and did something else. I might try to give it another shot because so many people I trust love it, that it might eventually click.
On the other hand, I probably would have been fighting for tickets to see that and who needs that kind of stress in my life :)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Gin & Tonic: Looks like.
Kent
@Baud: heh yeah. They sing in the shower too.
As a policy I try not to get too involved in their musical and pop culture tastes for fear of ruining it for them. Nothing more “lame” than a dad who knows all their music and shows. I don’t want to inadvertently cause their favorite stuff to jump the shark.
lamh36
@A Ghost to Most: My sister is not theatrical musically-inclined. So when we saw the travelling show and afterwards she said she loved it…that told me the show really was something special.
Besides which the musical also has as many “traditional” songs as rap songs?
Baud
@lamh36: I thought the moistness was intentional since he was playing a mad king. I liked him and the guy who played Burr.
zhena gogolia
@lamh36:
I thought he was intentionally foaming at the mouth to convey King George’s madness
Or what Baud said.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I don’t see this year ending without Trump appearing in blackface somewhere. Maybe at the RNC even?
Baud
@Kent:
Have you ever thought of acting like a conservative so you’re kids would rebel against it?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
DROPLETS!
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I can’t believe the speech got the attention and not the fact that the Trump Administration is focused on installing a “statue garden” in the middle of a pandemic and accompanying economic collapse.
This was their re-elect policy rollout. The statue garden. They wrote rules of the statue gardens- 50 people worked on this. It’s amazing how low the bar is, just in terms of work. It doesn’t have to be high quality or important work- there’s just none at all.
lamh36
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: closed captions is actually a godsend for some people. But I know folks find it hard to watch and read, but it’s never been a problem for me.
And I agree the fast pace of the rap when I saw the travelling company did have me saying, “wait what did he say” a lot and wanting to rewind…LOL.
But I mostly knew who everyone was because I tend to pre-read source material whenever I see shows like this.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: his executive order apparently calls for a committee to be created to study, et cetera et cetera. He’s gonna talk about heritage and heroes for the next six months. It fits his Golden Corral place mat understanding of history.
apparently he mentioned Sinatra last night. And again today. Some of Francis Albert’s family noticed, and were not amused.
lamh36
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Right…EWWW and he seems unapologetic about it…smh
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
“cancel culture” is Job One. Happily, “battling cancel culture” doesn’t involve doing anything real or measurable other than whining about liberals and writing op eds and speeches about it, so “battling” it won’t require any work and “beating” it isn’t measurable. Covid tests and unemployment we can measure. “Cancel culture” we cannot. Talk about pick your battles.
Baud
@Kay:
I support the statue garden. I think it’s important to have a place where liberal parents can bring their children to teach them how to identify which statues should be torn down and which should not be.
HumboldtBlue
@Brachiator:
Sit down, John! For god’s sake John sit down!
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Is the tennis court even finished? They should complete that before the statue garden. One crisis at a time.
aliasofwestgate
I love Hamilton because it’s awesome. Musically? Remember the history of rap itself, r&b, and soul. All of it grew on the toil of slavery, and rap itself was about revolution when it began in the late 70s (possibly 60s, I’ have to look up the history). Between that and the POC majority cast, that’s why it was such a full on subverting of the Broadway standard. The fact that it started off broadway, and then conquered it aftewards is an amazing thing.
That said, i love the music because i’m in the same generation LMM is. I get all the musical references he tossed in there, with the various styles as shorthand. Partly because i’m a vocalist and you understand things whether you like the genre or not as a trained musician. The rest is as i said, I’m the same later Gen X (Xennial) group that LMM is. Using ‘musical shorthand’ is not unusual. But doing it this way? THAT was unusual for Broadway. So yeah. I have a love for Hamilton, probably not to the lengths some others do. But egads, i will stop to sing along with Leslie Odom Jr’s ‘Wait for It’ and anything Daveed Digs is singing you can tell how much fun he had with it. The musical is full of bangers, as they call them now. But mostly they are just incredibly well put together to make a statement on several levels. Plus a lot of fun to listen to!
lamh36
Dean Cain who?
If not for the stink of Bryan Singer, Brandon Routh was the closest to the spirit of Chiristopher Reeves (the best film Superman, IMHO) as Superman, IMHO
Dean Cain who?
Kent
@Baud: that might of worked pre Trump. Today they will threaten to ship me to glue factory instead of retirement home if I try that.
Brachiator
@Kay:
Anyone who has seen the Doctor Who episode “Blink” can tell you that statue gardens never turn out well.
Kay
Imagine Donald Trump’s library. A library full of lies. No one ethical can work there. You’d have to run screaming from the room if you’re a real librarian. “You JUST printed this document! This isn’t a real paper. And what are these numbers? NONE of this happened”.
zzyzx
@Brachiator: I don’t know. Being zapped back to a year that isn’t 2020 is sounding pretty good right now.
HumboldtBlue
@aliasofwestgate:
Nice summary.
I believe Netflix has a series on the birth and growth of Hip Hop and rap from the early 70s Bronx and the genre’s growth is mirrored by that of the reggae and ska movement in England at the same time.
Very similar social and economic forces at play, young black and brown men and women without access to mainstream musical equipment and outlets created their own sounds.
One thing both shared as a staple of the musical genre — whoever brought the biggest baddest sound system was the one who ran the tables and owned the street (or the literal street light, the original DJs gathered on the sidewalk and hacked electricity from the city light poles).
I’m not a fan of 2nd Amendment marches but this one works for me today.
Baud
@aliasofwestgate:
I thought it was even better than Cats.
Patricia Kayden
raven
@HumboldtBlue: I told ya’ll Stone Mountain was diverse.
Patricia Kayden
Yay!!
Brachiator
@Kay:
Interesting. These people clearly believed that the recent travel restrictions were only for little people.
During the early stages of the pandemic, there were a couple of interesting stories about a sudden increase in jets taking off from private airports for “safer” destinations.
NotMax
@Kent
GAH!!! (runs, screaming like a banshee on fire, from the premises)
;)
Baud
@Patricia Kayden:
I assume he takes votes away from Trump.
Anne Laurie
I get the impression that many of the most dedicated ‘Hamilfans’ have listened to the cast album A LOT before watching the show itself; they’ve done their ‘homework’ in advance.
Also, many twitter commentors seeing it for the first time seem to be doing it over two nights (or more), as though it were a mini-series. Seems like, yes, there is MUCH to absorb!
JMG
@Jeffro: That’s so silly. There’s far more conventional Broadway musical music in Hamilton than straight rap. The rap is what would’ve been dialogue in say, South Pacific.
Peale
@Patricia Kayden: fer real? It’s dated July 4…
Wyatt Salamanca
Let America Be America Again
By Langston Hughes
h/t https://poets.org/poem/let-america-be-america-again
JMG
@Kay: One of my son’s friends said before Trump’s inauguration that his Presidential library “would have the loosest slots in town.” Still sounds right.
Kay
@Brachiator:
My son and his wife live in Denmark and they’re vacationing this week, in a different part of Denmark. They thought they’d run into problems with US passports. He says the guidance isn’t clear and although they have Danish work visas and spent the entire pandemic within Denmark he thinks they’re in the US category.
mrmoshpotato
JoyceH
Cute exchange on Twitter. Joe Biden tweeted, “I’ll read my daily briefings.” Republicans For Biden tweeted back, “You had us at ‘I’ll read’.”
lamh36
@Baud:
@zhena gogolia:
Nope, it’s a thing he’s apparently known for. Even LMM mentioned it in a tweeta jokingly.
dmsilev
@Kay: The statue garden proposal, which I’m guessing will never come to fruition, should be viewed through the lens of “Trump and his crew are continuing to try to gin up culture wars”. That’s all they have. They were planning on trying to run on “we inherited Obama’s economy and didn’t do too much to screw it up” (ok, not quite framed that way), but well, yeah. What else do they have? It’s an act of desperation, not one of strength.
joel hanes
Open thread?
Florida man
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
Who does these days.
Brachiator
@Kay:
I hope they don’t run into any serious problems. The regulations were aimed at people traveling from pandemic problem countries into “safer”countries.
It’s odd that EU rules allow travelers from Italy to go to England. Given how Boris Johnson has made such a mess of things, I would imagine that smart people would think twice before planning a trip there.
Kay
@dmsilev:
Oh, I agree, I just think it’s notable that no one even expects them do anything anymore.
I think we anticipated exactly this, did we not? A racist, mean-spirited campaign chock full of bullshit and lies. Right on schedule.
Amir Khalid
@joel hanes:
But he looks so dashing in his underpants hoodie!
Eric S.
@Sab: I just closed all my windows, turned on the A/C, and Ozzie the Cat is under the bed. It is definitely his least favorite night of the year.
joel hanes
@Jeffro:
I have fantasies of going to Maine, seeing Acadia NP and eating nothing but lobster rolls for a few days.
Played Fallout 4 Far Harbor?
Brachiator
@zzyzx:
I’m ancient. I love the Hamilton cast album just as much as I loved the original cast album of Hair, when that was first released.
Jeffro
@PsiFighter37: Good tips – thanks! I think I’m stuck on Acadia because I did a report on it back in…was it middle school? a LONG time ago, let’s put it that way. But Portland-area sounds good too!
Mike in NC
@PsiFighter37: Stationed in Brunswick, Maine when my ship was being overhauled in 1981-82 at BIW.
Jeffro
@Kay: and I love how he/they threw Scalia in there, so that when sensible people reject the whole project (either as wasteful, or because Scalia’s in it), they can go to 11 with their white grievance nonsense.
‘THEY WON’T EVEN HONOR JACKIE ROBINSON WHEN WE PROPOSE IT! WE DIDN’T INCLUDE A SINGLE CONFEDERATE!!”
Nope. Not going to let you co-opt folks who you discriminated against their whole lives and still would if we let you, wingnuts.
oldgold
@Gin & Tonic:
Unfortunately, it is.
Peale
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: as for me, I’ll just sit here soaking my feet in exotic substances while munching on potato chips I bought at the Asian market, because the Japanese just do junk food better these days. It’s probably not a way of life worth preserving, but I’m fairly satisfied at the moment. I can’t quite figure out what they see in living like paranoid versions of Holly Hobby
West of the Rockies
Super late to the game, but did Stephen Miller write that turd sandwich of a speech? It was so dreary and pissy.
Gin & Tonic
@Jeffro: It’s worth going to Portland if only to eat at Duck Fat.
Jeffro
@JMG: I know that, and you know that. But all Fro’s dad knows is that it’s a musical about a founding father with a cast full of people of color, and some rap in it, and well…we can’t. have. that.
Silly, sad, and pathetic.
Jeffro
@joel hanes: Nope. Is that one of them thar video games or something?
Kay
@Jeffro:
For a fleeting moment I thought it was like what 2 term Presidents do, where they set aside land for protected areas, on the way out, they do some stuff they wanted to do for their “legacy” and then I remembered none of them know what Presidents “usually do” so it’s not a sign they’re leaving.
zzyzx
So a band I like is playing a set today in rural Wyoming. One of the fans drove up there and was stoked that they got to see a show in a small Covid-free town because they could then go to a brewery and not stress about it.
That sounds great, but what happens if you infect people there and you have an outbreak in a place where it’s a 3-4 hour drive to specialists? I have a friend with health problems who used to lived there and she always had to deal with finding ways to getting to the doctors she needed.
It’s frustrating that people don’t get that aspect too.
debbie
@Kay:
“Where do we place Elvis Presley? To the right of Thomas Jefferson or just behind Vince McMahon?”
Chyron HR
@brantl:
Nooooo you can’t call Trump a nazi unless he comes from the national socialist region of Austria, otherwise he’s just a sparkling racist!
Thanks for sharing.
West of the Rockies
@zzyzx:
Some people just want their tunes and beer. It’s ridiculous.
brantl
@Baud: This is beside the point, the point that I was trying to make was that his direct quotes are sufficient to prove that he is a white supremacist, and that all of the inferential stuff is not useful to convince the people who aren’t on the inside track of Nazi information. That’s what I’m saying. Shorter: it isn’t important to convince the people that agree with you, that Trump is a Nazi. It’s important to convince the fence-sitter, uninformed people, and they aren’t going to get those oblique references.
zzyzx
@West of the Rockies: I mean don’t get me wrong, I’m going crazy without live music as that is pretty much what I do, and if there were a pod drive-in concert or something around me that was all outdoors and socially distant, I’d be all about it.
It’s just going into an indoor venue and acting like we can just pretend we’re in normal times that I don’t get.
J R in WV
OK, I’ve said this before, and I’ll have to say it again:
TCNJ == TheoCraticNutJob
It is as simple as that!!
We have a NeoCalvinist religious movement that intends to control the members sitting in the pews, and intends to allow the husbands and fathers to absolutely control the women, wives and mothers and daughters, totally. They stand against everything America stands for, religious liberty most especially, and equality as well.
Patriarchal Theocratic monsters, AKA Republicans. Women can’t even teach their bullshit, because female cooties might make it nastier!
Ken
Does it have a proper opera ending, with each of them pulling a dagger and stabbing the other?
debbie
@HumboldtBlue:
That’s a lot of NFACs.
Jeffro
@Kay: for any given thing that this administration does or says, I usually ask myself, “In what way might they be either lining their pockets or trying to piss off the libs?” Or both, of course.
For this one, the statues they’re proposing are like 90% well-known and well-regarded prominent Americans. But Billy Graham? Antonin Scalia? And Christopher Columbus?? Junipero Serra?? No. They’re clearly just trying to get a backlash going, and then get their own backlash to the backlash going. Which is kind of (darkly) funny because they have no idea just how very much in the minority they are when it comes to these issues.
Another Scott
@joel hanes:
It’s just Science!! Or brain damage. One or the other…
Cheers,
Scott.
debbie
@Baud:
Wasn’t Kanye his special friend earlier this year?
MisterForkbeard
@Another Scott: Well, it’s science that they have brain damage, right? We can test for that. ;)
Peale
@Jeffro: I wouldn’t put it past them to secretly purchasing a derelict bronze casting factory who’ll be awarded sole contractor for 50 statues and that Melanie’s personal hairdresser – the one who received all that unspent money from the inauguration – will suddenly find that he has an interest in sculpting and will somehow win all the design contracts.
brantl
@Chyron HR: Not what I said, thanks for failing the reading comprehension test.
Another Scott
@brantl: ICYMI, Jay Smooth – How to tell someone they sound racist (2:59) (from 2008).
tl;dr – Semantics aren’t the issue.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
brantl
@Another Scott: I’ll take that in the spirit is was intended? I saw the video you tendered, and he makes my point nicely.
J R in WVeric
@JMG:
The last time wife and I went to NYC, several years ago, one of our nights out was to a revival of South Pacific at Lincoln Center. The guy who played/sang the planter lead was also appearing in an opera at the time — it was a fabulous production.
I’ve seen South Pacific a whole lot as a young, and until this performance I never understood the prominence of racism in the plot! The young woman co-star finally learned that the children were his kids, with a native woman who had died. And she was shocked!
Amazed that I hadn’t figured that out in high school 50 years ago.
Another Scott
@brantl: It’s a very good video, if you haven’t seen it (or have forgotten it).
Unless you’re a lawyer for the ACLU, in a free-speech trial, arguing that people who say racist things are not true NAZIs isn’t a good look, IMHO.
People giving opinions here usually aren’t trying to convince others – especially others who don’t read Balloon-Juice.
Just MHO, FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
J R in WV
I have fumbled my user nym, so if someone could fix that and or release the comment, please…?
Maybe too much bubbly for dinner?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
…I’m going to see it again and again.
Another Scott
@Peale: What makes you think they would actually buy a factory??
GovExec:
So much winning…
Cheers,
Scott.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jeffro: There are at least 4 statues of Jackie within 15 miles of the cave here in Glendale(Rose Bowl, Pasadena City Hall, Dodger Stadium, and UCLA).
Kent
@NotMax: are u nitpicking my grammar?
SFAW
@Gin & Tonic:
And if they’re too busy, you can try East Ender, two or three doors from Duckfat. And failing those two, how about DeMillo’s?
SFAW
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
See, libtard — racism no longer exists!
lahke
@H.E.Wolf: thanks so much for this link. I really appreciate all the historical background.
mrmoshpotato
brantl
@Another Scott: I never once argued that Trump isn’t a Nazi, what I said was, there are much better arguments to be made, than that his message contained 14 words, or had 2 capital H’s in it. And there are, if you want to prove him a fascist.
brantl
@Another Scott: I never once argued that Trump isn’t a Nazi, what I said was, there are much better arguments to be made, than that his message contained 14 words, or had 2 capital H’s in it. And there are, if you want to prove him a fascist. If you go into the kind of minutiae these people are doing, you’re going to be asked to wear your tinfoil hat. And that is my point. If this is only inside baseball, then never mind. I tend to consider any organised political writing to be intended to convince people of the author’s point. Your mileage, and destination may vary.