In yesterday’s post about a Lincoln Project ad, there was some discussion in the comments about what the Lincoln Project founders would do after Trump’s defeat (if he’s defeated), as well as some well-deserved skepticism about their motivations.
If you put yourself in a position of a never-Trumper political consultant — the genuine kind, not the kind that will leave the box for President blank on their ballot because Joe Biden said something about taking down a statue once — you’re in a tough spot. If, Dios mediante, Trump is defeated and Democrats get the Senate and increase their majority in the House, who’s left in those seats on the R side of the aisle? Hard-core Trumpers in R+10 and better districts, that’s who. They’ll re-brand if Trump loses (“the Qanon party,” probably), but the ideology and motivations will remain. So that rules out pretty much every sitting Senator and Representative as a potential client if you’re a never-Trumper consultant.
But what about the challengers to the newly elected Democrats in 2022 and beyond? Good question — every one of the candidates who would want to hire a never-Trumper will probably face a primary challenge from a Qanon supporter. Having a never-Trumper on staff is a big problem that will probably hurt a Republican candidate facing a Qanon opponent, and as we’ve seen, these Qanon candidates can beat Republican incumbents in primaries.
So, it’s pretty likely that a never-Trumper consultant is politically radioactive in today and tomorrow’s Republican party. I’m not saying this to shed a salty tear for some DC bottom feeders who would be happily lining up to work for President Jeb Bush or President Marco Rubio if the chips had fallen a different way. I’m saying it because the modern Republican Party is rotten to its Qanon, OAN core, and Trump exiting will not drain the pustulated furuncle that the party has become. I don’t know if I’ll see a functioning, conservative opposition party rooted at least in part in reality during my lifetime. Certainly a never-Trumper who thinks that Trump is the only problem with their party is living in a rock-and-roll fantasy.
BGinCHI
They can start a new party, but that would take money (probably not a problem) and hard work (a big problem).
They could also switch parties and help to bury the White Power Party by supporting centrist Dems who are terrible but at least not part of a death cult.
zhena gogolia
Jen Rubin and Tom Nichols fully understand that Trump is not the only problem.
A Ghost to Most
The Lincoln Project is on America’s side. Isn’t that enough right now?
e julius drivingstorm
Whatever is left of the GOP will still punch above its weight because of conservative talk radio, Fox noise, and Russia.
Roger Moore
Project Lincoln, at least, clearly understands this is not the case; they’re going after his supporters in the Senate, too. But this is a good starting point for judging which Republicans who turned on Trump are worth listening to. The only ones worth listening to are the ones who see the whole party as the problem.
Keith P.
I honestly think that the left-most part of the party should accept that those who went all-in against Trump (particularly the Lincoln Project, which has just been killing it with their ads – I’ve always been jealous of the GOP’s ad ruthlessness) should have roles to play in a Biden administration. A lot of these folks have earned it. And if they’re radioactive within the GOP now, all the better. Let the Democratic Party become a big enough tent to accept these folks in the hopes that what’s left of the GOP starves, after which the Never-Trumpers can schism with the Democratic Party to make a new right-centrist party (aka “The Lincoln Party”)
Fraud Guy
I’m going to believe they will try to hive off the centrist portion of the Democrats (those uncomfortable with the socialist/young direction of the party), with the few non-toxic remnants of the Republican Party to create a new center-right party.
Whether that will be the rebranded Democrats (if the Democrats succeed in squashing or forcing out their left flank) or a new moniker fighting to be the 2nd party in our two party system is up for grabs.
West of the Cascades
At a personal level in terms of job prospects, some Never Trump Republicans will be able to get good gigs in the media as the “sane, reasonable” opposition to Biden, even if their views no longer represent a majority of the GOP/QAnon party.
randy khan
In this scenario, the Republicans are kind of like the Whigs (at least more or less). And what happened to the Whigs was that the people who were against slavery left the party to form the Republicans, and the Whigs no longer were a viable party.
The difference is that in the 1850s, there was a natural flow to two parties – the Democrats (who were at least somewhat okay with slavery) and the Republicans, and a Whig could choose between the two. Today, though, we have three groups – the Dems, the deplorable Republicans and the not-as-deplorable Republicans. The not-as-deplorable Republicans wouldn’t really be comfortable in the Democratic Party (and the Dems wouldn’t be that comfortable with them), and of course the deplorable Republicans aren’t really going to be comfortable anywhere but where they are. And neither wing of the Republican Party would be remotely close to an electoral majority (nationally and in most states), so a split would condemn the party to national irrelevance. It’s a conundrum. Happily, it’s not my problem.
Sab
@zhena gogolia: Also Stu Stevens.I am lookimg forward to his book next momth.
mad citizen
An interesting question: wither conservatism? Maybe it’s time for “conservatism” to die. It seems like it morphed into nationalism more than anything. It lost the culture wars, it created huge deficit spending. I guess they have generally won on abortion and gun rights/nuts. But the gun battle is not over, and it is a public health crisis.
Maybe it’s time for kindness and competence in governing to be the overriding drivers for both major political parties. I really hope the Republican party will die and a newly-named party will happen
(Would love to think about this more and comment but working today)
Roger Moore
@Fraud Guy:
I’m OK with replacing the current Republican Party with a sane alternative. My worry is that the rump of the Republican Party would still be big enough to threaten to win real power against fractured opposition.
Comrade Scrutinizer
What Roger Moore said. Best outcome for the NTs is to establish a new party, but that can’t be done until the GOP as it now exists is reduced to rubble. If that party is conservative instead of right-wing extremist, that’s okay with me. I don’t expect the people behind TLP to agree wtih me, but they are the enemy of my enemies, including the GOP Senate and the American Taliban. That’s good enough for now.
West of the Cascades
@randy khan: In the 1850s, deplorable Whigs went with the Know Nothing Party (formally the Native American Party).
Baud
@Keith P.:
I understand why Biden can’t, for political reasons, take the same tack as LP. I don’t understand why more independent progressive groups cannot, especially since so many progressives love the LP ads.
(Is VoteVets considered a progressive group? They’ve had some brutal ads. If there are others, I’m not familiar with them.)
Frankensteinbeck
Hmmm. Looks like the 7-2 decision on religious schools firing over discrimination was ‘religious schools are meant to be religious schools, and their teachers are effectively priests. First Amendment says we cannot tell a religion who can and cannot be a priest.’
Haven’t seen an explanation for the contraceptive one yet, but it was also 7-2 so I expect there to be some extra element involved.
Apparently there’s a thing where the Supreme Court tries to equalize who gets to write decisions, and that leaves liberals for tomorrow’s Trump tax decisions.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@zhena gogolia: Rick Wilson growls that he’ll never forgive or forget, and given his TV-friendly persona, he’ll probably be the most visible. But the far bigger problem is PL’s target audience: trump-voting, upscale white suburbanites who are growing tired of buffoonery but pre-plague thought that tax cuts made up for said buffoonery.
But if Florida Man Wilson wants to bring what he likes to call his particular set of skills against Marco Rubio in 2022, I will continue to appreciate him as a co-belligerent
rikyrah
The Lincoln Project are not our friends. And, that’s ok. We take useful allies in times of crisis.
But, only fools believe that they are our friends.
dmsilev
Once you leave behind the R+10 districts, how favorable is it to be a Trumper/Qloon in a GOP primary to nominate a challenger to a Democratic incumbent? My guess is that will be the potential avenue for the Project Lincoln people, conservative-but-vaguely-sane candidates running in swing districts. That, and media appearances.
Ohio Mom
Keith P.: No, not a single Never Trumper can have a role in the Biden administration.
If they want to become Democrats and start off at the bottom. Maybe giving out sample ballots at polls on rainy, snowy Election Days. I’ll allow that.
They do not get to jump ahead of loyal, committed Democrats who have earned a place in a Democratic administration. What a slap in the face to them to hire a Johnny-come-lately Republican.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Sab: from what I’ve seen, Stevens and Max Boot, and I guess to a lesser extent Rubin (?), have been the ones most willing to take a hard look at the way Republicans have used racist dog whistles. (edited)
@Baud: Biden has put out some pretty tough ads, as has at least one of the big Dem PACs (American Bridge? I can never remember those magnet-poetry names), but they don’t give Joe and Mika the same thrill up the leg
Chief Oshkosh
Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?
zhena gogolia
@A Ghost to Most:
That’s my feeling.
OT, this is the best video — little Asian-American girl sees herself in Philippa Soo in Hamilton:
https://www.oprahmag.com/entertainment/a33234065/philippa-soo-hamilton-little-girl-reaction-representation/
Fraud Guy
@Roger Moore: Especially since our electoral process promotes two parties, and having the voting electorate split in thirds will be a harrowing process.
taumaturgo
It is high time for ALL republicans to do their forty years wandering in the desert away from the levers of power while Biden begins reconstruction 2.0. I’m hoping the new administration will jettison austerity, tax cuts for the wealthy, law and order bullshit, pro-business proclivity, anti-union war, religious bigotry, xenophobia, cancel culture and the anti-voting rights stance.
Aleta
Harvard, MIT sue Trump administration to protect student visas, escalating fight over online learning
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/07/08/harvard-mit-international-students-ice/
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think Biden’s ad have been great. But they do have a different style than these LP ads.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Eleven. They did that incredible impeachment ad.
The Moar You Know
@Frankensteinbeck: AKA “Roberts and possibly Gorsuch are hiding from angry daddy behind RBG’s skirts”
zhena gogolia
@Aleta:
Good for them!
Baud
@Aleta: Welcomed, and inevitable.
kindness
Oh come on. Republicans don’t change. Never Trumpers will immediately pivot 1/22/21 and start acting like President Uncle Joe is the root of all evil.
joel hanes
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Stevens and Max Boot, and I guess to a lesser extent Rubin (?), have been the ones most willing to take a hard look at the way Republicans have used racist dog whistles.
The racist dog-whistles were obvious in 1980.
They “took a hard look” after over thirty-five years of closing their eyes and plugging their ears. I’m glad for the help, but it’s a wonder these people can get out of their homes without tripping over things, because they’re very good at not seeing.
bemused
Never trumpers will have to re-invent “conservatism”. Who knows what updated conservatism will look like eventually but sure many or all of them have plans. It will be interesting to watch which faction of conservatives will prevail.
germy
Is it true they’re thinking of running Tucker Carlson in 2024?
The Moar You Know
@Keith P.: Oh, no no no no no no no. Just no. Pension them off. They earned some coin for their work. Good money. I have no problem with that. But not a one of these people gets to see the levers of power ever again. What is it going to take for some of you to understand that Republicans cannot be trusted?
dww44
@A Ghost to Most: Thank you. I am grateful for the Never Trumpers. They have a megaphone that our side doesn’t have and TBH they wield it very effectively. Would that we had a similarly talented group of spokespersons on our side.
On a different note, I’d say that when it becomes evident that Fox News becomes fiscally weak, then that is a likely indicator that the worm is turning. If the elder Murdoch happens to depart this earth sooner then it might happen even faster. He’s definitely the progenitor of evil media.
germy
@bemused:
Raise the retirement age to 70, reduce Social Security budget, more tax cuts for the wealthy, less corporate regulation, but not as blatantly racist.
Roger Moore
@Baud:
Sure. Biden has a different goal from Project Lincoln. Project Lincoln is primarily a scorched earth effort to destroy the Republicans they don’t like, and a big part of that is encouraging paranoia and dissension within the Trump White House. Biden also wants to attack Trump, but he sees building himself up as at least as important, so his ads need to have a strong component of showing how Biden is an alternative to Trump.
Chyron HR
@Fraud Guy:
Translation: If the “left” continues to lose Democratic presidential primaries by overwhelming margins.
dww44
@Baud:
Votevets is indeed a progressive group. I receive their daily emails. I think they’ve done ads before, but not this hard hitting. The Russian bounties and Trump’s refusal to address the issue has ignited their opposition.
Felanius Kootea
Off topic: Mary Kay Letourneau has died of cancer.
dmsilev
@Aleta: Good to hear. Hopefully, that order can get temporarily overridden while the case is fought and appealed and appealed, and by the time there’s a final decision, President Biden will be able to make it all moot.
MattF
For the most part, the big goals of the Lincoln Project are out there in bright flashing lights. As in ‘Lincoln, y’know, Abraham’– it would be hard to get that wrong, and Lincoln’s the optimum target. That said, it’s also a fact, IMO, that they are making a play for support from liberals. They have no natural constituency other than us libtards, and, as high-powered political strategists, I’m quite sure they’re aware of that. I don’t know how it will all play out, but I think interesting times are ahead.
bemused
@germy:
I suspect so too. Most never trumpers just want to purge the clumsy, incompetent, in-your-face nasties and go back to business as usual with smarter, sneakier players.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Magnet-poetry names! Hahahahahahaha!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
For the record, I won’t be surprised if Biden does name at least one Republican to a cabinet-level post in the name of healing and unity, and I’m not going to rend my garments if he drags Olly Snowe out of mothballs to be Commerce Secretary or something like that. I’d frankly much rather have someone like that in a second- or third-tier job than a Dem blobbist like Leon Panetta in the front row.
marklar
What will Never Trumpers do?
Nobody knows for sure, but don’t overlook the power of Cognitive Dissonance (or in this case, Cognitive dissidents!). Part of the reason Trump supporters have come to accept such blatantly racist policies is that once you let “good people on both sides” and “kids in cages” slide, it becomes hard to justify why you might opposed something else.
I expect the same thing to happen to at least some Never Trumpers. After spending time going after their party, some will shift their world-view to justify why they did so in the first place. They might not become progressives, but many will not be able to reconcile their attacks on Trumpism with some of the beliefs/policies they supported in the past. I expect that more than a few of them will come to reject those past attitudes.
I know it’s just one anecdote, but it’s been interesting watching Nicole Wallace’s transition from a Never Trumper who still promoted Conservative ideology, to a MSNBC host who seems to be promoting a left-of-center (which objectively, is really centrist) perspective.
joel hanes
The realization that horrifies Democrats, socialists, and never-Trumpers alike is that small-c conservatives comprise a very narrow slice of Republican voters and almost no Republican politicians: almost all Republican primary voters and Republican politicians are facists first. White-supremacy authoritarians who have long voted Republican not for the small-government tropes, nor out of fiscal rectitude, but out of racism and a desire to hurt those whom they despise and resent.
So any attempt to create a new conservative third party out of the wreckage (inshallah) of the current GOP is electorally doomed, because if they draw the party small enough that conservatives can win primaries, the racist remnant of the GOP will slay them in the general, but if they draw it big enough to win general elections in R+10 districts, the fascists will primary conservative candidates and win.
Betty Cracker
The Democratic tent is already bursting at the seams trying to cover everyone who’s not an avid bigot and/or religious fanatic. Any votes we gain by accommodating people on the right will be offset by losses on the left, so fuck ’em. They should fix their own damned party, which will be easier to do after the orange shit-stain goes down in flames. I understand that the hardcore crazies will be an obstacle, but that’s their problem, not ours.
PJ
One thing to consider about R +10 districts is that 2020 is a census year. If there is a blue wave this year, that should give more state legislatures to the Democrats, which may equalize the party balance in some districts. It seems to me it is better to have more D+3 and R+3 districts than D+10 and R+10, because reality trends Democratic, and most people want to live, so that it’s likely in future that R+3 will become D+3, but I am no expert on the subject. In any event, if districts are shaped to be more balanced electorally, that will push the Qanon people more to the margins, if Republicans care about winning. (Obviously the death-culters don’t care about living, let alone winning.)
In the long run, whether it’s called the Republican Party or not, the party of less or no taxation, regulation, environmental protection, and labor laws for the wealthy; transfer of public resources into private hands; and suppressing the vote of anyone who would impede the rich from getting richer and controlling government, will be decided by the .01%, the Koches, and Thiels, and Adelsons, and not the Lincoln Project people.
WaterGirl
Someone on this thread is a birthday boy today. Happy birthday!
Tenar Arha
@rikyrah: This. Absolutely this.
Plus these are, after all, the same people whose “messaging” (aka propaganda) drove the GOP into a self-reinforcing white supremacist extremist loop in order to win power, and thereby lost control of their own party.
Frankensteinbeck
@joel hanes:
Pretty much. There is no Republican Party without the racists. They are its bread and butter, and the plutocrats have been riding that wave because ‘fuck you’ policies appeal to both, and include tax cuts and letting employers be evil. If that alliance breaks, there is no plutocrat party. They won’t have enough voters to bother with.
trnc
It’s not possible to be too cynical. However, Republicans as a party have gotten more extreme because they’ve gotten rewarded for. They were not rewarded in 2018, and they may suffer more defeat this year. If we regain the trifecta AND gain in the House, plus some governor seats and legislatures, a lot of republicans will probably realize that the Qanon Qrew route isn’t working. The extremists will still exist but in smaller numbers that make it more difficult to wield influence.
Obviously, it’s speculation at this point, but not unpossible.
mad citizen
@Comrade Scrutinizer: Your last sentence made me (first find) and think of this Bob Dylan lyric from “Highlands”:
“The sun is beginnin’ to shine on me
But it’s not like the sun that used to be
The party’s over and there’s less and less to say
I got new eyes, everything looks far away
Well my heart’s in The Highlands at the break of day
Over the hills and far away
There’s a way to get there, and I’ll figure it out somehow
Well I’m already there in my mind and that’s good enough for now”
cthulhu
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-reelection-chances-2020-house-senate-candidates-biden-1024862/
Jim, Foolish Literalist
PL-er and self-described paleo-conservative Tom Nichols is having a twitter spat with Jay Caruso, a name I remember from the Bush years who’s part of the “anti-anti-trump” camp
jeffreyw
I’m afraid Trump won’t go away after a loss. Not the “squat in the Oval Office” nonsense. I mean in our polity. He will be around and he will probably have his own TV channel. This is the best argument for putting him behind bars.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
If anyone took that label seriously, shame on them.
trnc
Sure they do – the group to which they themselves belong, which is the not entirely insane republicans. Yes, they’ll demand all of the modern republican orthodoxy of tax cuts for the wealthy, no regulations, etc (somewhat insane), but not the racism and complete incompetence regarding things that shouldn’t be partisan, like pandemics.
narya
@rikyrah: @Ohio Mom: @The Moar You Know: Here’s the thing (and I agree w/ all of your comments–especially do not trust/hire): on what basis will they form their “new” party? We’ve been fighting the Civil War, in one form or another, all along, and we’re now seeing the apotheosis of it. The NT have decided not to go along w/ T, but would they go along w/ T’s policies if someone else had proposed them? What is it they’re actually ‘for”? More tax cuts (then bridges fall)? More profits for the extremely rich? The cannot credibly claim fiscal responsibility, with their history, so what, exactly, would the platform be?
MattF
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Here, Nichols yells at Bret Stephens.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@WaterGirl: Ringo is a jackal?
Mary G
LTC Vindman is retiring from the military. For shame America.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@jeffreyw: he’ll never go all the way away as long as he’s wheezing on this side of the grass, but I do wonder what will happen when he’s non-threatening (doesn’t have Bill Barr as his familiar) and less useful.
I don’t hold much hope for criminal prosecution, in part because I doubt even the Keith Richards of Cheezeberders will outlive a dragged out criminal prosecution and appeals process.
trollhattan
I’m guessing a substantial part of the Republican infrastructure understand/believe that Trump is doomed and a significant Dem sweep is likely. They recall pulling power away from Obama in 2010 and are pondering what TeaParty II might look like. The well of resentment will be recharged and ready to pump.
zhena gogolia
@trnc:
Right.
MattF
@trnc: It’s true that once upon a time, there were liberal Republicans– for many years, my congressional representative was Connie Morella, who was to the left of most Democrats. But the Never Trumpers don’t fall into that category. They are, generally self-identified ideological conservatives.
trollhattan
@Mary G:
“Thank you for your service” seems pretty hollow, looking at how he’s been treated. Same goes for the captain of the Roosevelt.
zhena gogolia
@Mary G:
Disgusting.
trnc
I’m going to stitch that on a pillow.
Mike in NC
Gaming out 2024? GOP will embrace Tom Cotton of Arkansas, war criminal who’d happily foster a white supremacist totalitarian state where unarmed protesters are attacked with police dogs and rubber bullets to protect the 1%ers. He’ll choose a worthy running mate like Michelle Bachmann or maybe the QAnon gun nut in Colorado who’s running for Congress.
trollhattan
@MattF:
Go RINO hunting often enough and RINOs eventually become extinct. Sad, that we cannot have two viable main political parties.
Kelly
Lt. Col Alexander Vindman is retiring.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/politics/vindman-retiring-alleged-white-house-retaliation/index.html
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@trollhattan: Newt Gingrich, who is not as stupid as he is loathsome, had a tweet the other day about Biden being the puppet of Schumer and Pelosi (next week, of Warren and AOC!) that somebody said is the first sign of a campaign to save the Senate while putting less effort behind trump. I think throwing trump under a steamroller in return for holding the majority is a deal McConnell would pay half of Elaine Chao’s money for if he could.
@Mike in NC: my money’s on Josh Hawley, he has that TV preacher vibe, and I sense a ruthlessness in him. Larry Hogan has a book coming out, and he has that competent daddy affect, but may not be crazy enough. Cotton has that “parents’-crawlspace-is-full-of-small-animal-skeletons-and-barbie-doll-heads” vibe. That boy ain’t right.
Betty Cracker
@Frankensteinbeck: IMO, the most likely outcome is that the Republican Party rebrands in the image of a spineless plutocrat boot-licker like Marco Rubio and remembers how to employ euphemisms again like Lee Atwater instructed. They have to learn to make the quiet parts quiet again because neither the racists nor the plutocrats are politically viable on their own.
trnc
I think that’s what I described, but tomato tomahto.
Jeffro
As long as the GOP remains committed to racism, Russia, and lying about the pandemic, I don’t think they are going to find themselves in charge of much of anything.
almost every single one of their current elected officials has his/her slavish devotion to trumpov to be easily hung around their necks for the rest of their careers
And they have no bench… Show me a young “conservative“ Who is solid on social justice and climate change issues, and I will show you a democrat
Miss Bianca
@Felanius Kootea: Oh. I’d forgotten what she was (in)famous for. So then I looked. Ugh. Kind of wish I hadn’t.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Betty Cracker: Can you put it back in the box once you’ve said the quiet parts out loud?
Miss Bianca
@marklar: Ha! Love “Cognitive dissidents” – swiping for future use!
MattF
@Jeffro: Well, they had a bench, but all the candidates on the bench were swept away by Trump in 2016. A huge failure, and yet to be really explained, IMO
ETA: It’s all very well to complain about Trump taking over the Republican party, but the party chose him.
Leto
@Kelly: I told Silverman he wouldn’t get O-6. But I’m just a TSgt, so wtf do I know.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Miss Bianca: Her dad was a Bircher State Senator from the OC.
WaterGirl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Who knew?
Miss Bianca
@Mike in NC: With any hope, the “Q Anon gun nut” -or, “Tombstone Barbie” as I like to think of her, when I have to think of her at all – will be history, and sane Democrat Diane Mitsch Bush will be my new rep for CO-3.
LarryB
TC going after Tammy Duckworth hasn’t set well with them either.
Brachiator
@Felanius Kootea:
I saw that. Her strange story seems like a hundred years ago.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mary G:
I hope someone — Adam, ideally — front pages this for discussion. My heart hurts for that good man.
WaterGirl
@Kelly: This is so wrong. Him telling his Dad “this is America, I don’t have to be afraid to do this” and then getting this treatment, it’s breaking my hard. Fuck fuck fuck.
trnc
That’s from the linked Nichols thread, so it made me wonder – does anyone know if he’s referring to statues with plaques that criticize the statue in some way? I’ve generally said that I’m ok with a confederate statue with a large plaque that makes clear what an evil scumbag the subject was. On the other hand, for every one person who tore down a statue without reading the plaque, there are probably 1000 people who revered it without reading the plaque.
Betty Cracker
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Great question. I don’t know.
japa21
@SiubhanDuinne: My guess, and that is all it is, is that he chose to do this rather than be a central figure in a dispute which would prevent his brothers and sisters in the service from receiving their justified and earned promotions.
Jeffro
@joel hanes:
@Betty Cracker:
@PJ:
Great insights all around
Jinchi
Better for the parties too, since in +10 districts the primary is effectively the general election and more extreme candidates thrive. We need sane parties in this country. I’d love to see the Republican party go extinct and be replaced by a sane one, but barring that, I’d like them to be populated by people who give a damn about the country.
CaseyL
Look, all y’all, I also love the LP ads, but bear in mind that the mentality behind those ads is the mentality that made the GOP what it is today – no, that made politics what it is today.
Substance-free, dumbed-down, and full of rage.
Newt Gingrich weaponized partisanship, and people like Rick Wilson used Gingrich-style rhetoric and tactics in their ads. There could be no honest difference of opinion; only one was American and the other was degenerate, Marxist, etc. etc. Max Clelland voted against an “anti-terrorist” bill because he didn’t approve of the provisions within it: Wilson created an ad saying Clelland was pro-terrorism. They did this all the time.
The question for me isn’t whether NTs might be useful going forward.
The question is whether NT’s proven track record of reducing politics to mud-wrestling is what we want for the future of the Democratic Party.
Kelly
@Leto: I don’t know how the Army works. Is he stuck with a “up or out” deadline that makes waiting to see if Biden wins pointless?
Geminid
The 2022 Senate class has 22 republican seats to contest, I think. The never trumper consultants probably can get work with senators like Toomey and Portman. There will be plenty of money to go around. They may have to do it on the down low, though. Some of the tea party/Trump fanatics will give up on politics when their champion goes down, but the ones who stick around will especially hate the Rinos who stabbed him in back.
Brachiator
Not really my problem. But I appreciate their efforts if they help get rid of Trump.
And politics is strange. At some level, political consultants are apolitical. They get hired to get someone elected. Agreement with the candidate’s political ideology is optional.
Jinchi
I don’t care if a new party is conservative or even created out of the wreckage of the GOP. But we do need more than one party in this country. Corruption thrives in any place where a single party has a lock on power, because every ambitious candidate flocks to it, regardless of ideology.
Amir Khalid
@Brachiator:
In mid-2020, everything from the Before Times feels like a hundred years ago.
Ksmiami
@zhena gogolia: I think Rick Wilson has been pretty clear that he’s lit his old GOP contacts on fire on the way out- Bill Kristol has registered as a Democrat so no the GOP is a toxic waste dump
Brachiator
@Jinchi:
Well said.
Marcopolo
Just gonna drop this in here with the usual caveats of taking all polling 4 months out from an election with a fair amount of salt and let’s all keep working hard to make sure we really do bury them in Nov.:
SiubhanDuinne
@japa21:
That possibility also occurred to me, that he was taking one for the team. But it’s a helluva sacrifice, and I just ache with sadness for him.
Wumpus
@trnc: Nichols is referring to protestors in Madison WI pulling down a statue of a Civil War general … who fought on the Union side, was an abolitionist, and an immigrant. Obviously the protesters didn’t bother to do their homework.
Another Scott
Too many unknowns to know how the GOP changes, etc.
How will redistricting go?
What happens if Roberts/Thomas/Alito has to resign because of health reasons?
What if FB and Twitter bots from Russia/China/Macedonia are reined in?
What GOP politicians are going to retire/go to prison/die in the next 2-10 years?
Politics is people. People don’t last forever.
Life is change. We shouldn’t fight the last war. We need to be nimble and work to pass our agenda and let the GOP figure themselves out.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
MattF
@CaseyL: I remember, back in the day, when the McLaughlin group first came on the air. I admit that I didn’t get it– what, after all, was so fascinating about people yelling at each other? It’s only gotten worse– much worse– since then. It would be a good thing if there was a way of responding besides yelling back, but I don’t see it.
randy khan
@West of the Cascades:
They eventually migrated to the Dems (well, the ones who didn’t commit treason in support of slavery). But the idea of some intermediate, unsuccessful way station party certainly would be on the table for whichever chunk of the Republican Party left.
Kelly
I suspect Rick Wilson has banked enough to retire and maybe do a bit of shit stirring just for old times sake. If I recall correctly he’s mentioned some expensive toys including a private plane.
SiubhanDuinne
Betsy DeFuckingVos is on my TV.
*click
Barbara
@The Moar You Know: Seriously. There are so many talented people who have never wavered in their support for Democratic candidates. You can reach out to people and value their contributions without putting them in the driver’s seat.
Suzy
@marklar: Interesting point of view. I agree. The first step is to get out of their political bubble. And they may begin to see more clearly.
Stuart Stevens, republican political operative who worked with Romney, described the bunker mentality. “You just get caught up in the game, you’re so invested in winning, you have blinders” (paraphrasing here).
Interesting that you cite the example of Nicole Wallace. She may be one of the Never Trumpers whose journey has brought her the furthest from her ancient world. She has immersed herself into a different political culture. She spends her workdays with people who are not conservative. Her guests are, for the most part, not conservative.
She’s not going back.
Leto
@Kelly: potentially, but like Japa21 said he’s probably doing this so the rest of his promotion group doesn’t get caught up in this shitstorm. He could file his retirement paperwork with a date of a year out, and if Biden wins, could pull it, but honestly I don’t know. I’ll let Adam comment on the Army side of things.
hitchhiker
My two cents:
The NT folks have a genuine horror at just one thing: stupidity. They see that their party’s tender cultivation of stupid voters got out of hand and led to the elevation of one of the stupidest people in America.
They’re okay with hypocrisy over balanced budgets. They’re okay with institutionalized racism. They’re okay with a military the size of all the stars in the sky. They’re okay with giving certain deference to “religion.”
So, I don’t know where they go. If the Democrats become home to people who can’t tolerate idiocy and incompetence, and the Republicans continue to insist that trump was a genius, the ones among them who really can’t stomach things like affirmative action or progressive tax systems have no place to go.
Maybe they’ll be successful over time in transforming the Republicans. Maybe they’ll start something called American Independents or that sort of thing. Why not? So-called Independents are the largest political group right now.
I give them enough credit to think they won’t take a chance on any move that enables a possible comeback for trumpism.
SiubhanDuinne
@MattF:
I remember reading once that Jackie Kennedy never tried to outshout the noisy, boisterous family she married into. Instead, she’d just start talking in that whispery little voice of hers, and before long everybody else had to shut up and lean in and pay attention to hear what she was saying.
Yeah, probably wouldn’t work today.
Jinchi
Deep down, I agree, but then again they’ve currently got the presidency, the Senate and the Courts, not to mention half the state legislatures, so …..
This problem doesn’t get fixed until they lose big and repeatedly.
Ella in New Mexico
@Betty Cracker:
Yeah, but TBH, there are a few choice people on the left I’d totally throw overboard in exchange for a rational middle of the road Republican coming to their senses…Bon voyage, Susan Sarandon…;-)
trnc
@Wumpus: Ah, yes, that was an unforced error.
Kelly
I don’t remember where but a Ulysses Grant statue was pulled over by some morons. In Portland hooligans during the recent chaos built a fire under a 100+ year old statue of an elk and busted up the base.
Barbara
@SiubhanDuinne: The new thing is to go after public schools for not reopening. Fairfax (really, the entire state of Virginia, at least for Northern Virginia) is moving to a hybrid model that allows some in class learning combined with some online learning, basically 2/3 days present/online — unless you want all online. My kid desperately wants to go back to school. For their efforts, De Vos singled out Fairfax by name in some screed yesterday. As if she ever gave a flying fuck about any public school district ever anywhere.
Like the student visa policy, they are using every lever at their disposal to try to force schools and universities into making students return. They are just fucking ghouls, all the more ghoulish for trying to clothe their greed and indifference in the welfare of students.
MattF
Greg Sargent makes the case that Trump’s coronavirus policy is deliberate and malevolent.
Roger Moore
@marklar:
This is already happening. I thought Max Boot was one of the better never-Trumpers in this regard. He had a whole soul-searching phase in which he admitted he had been ignoring stuff he knew was wrong in order to get progress on one policy issue he cared most about. Jen Rubin has pretty clearly gone through something similar, though I don’t think she’s laid it out quite as clearly. I don’t see either of them going back to the Republicans anytime soon.
I think this is one of the big problems for the Republicans in the longer term; they’ve lost a lot of credibility with people like that. Even if they nominate someone from the establishment wing of the party who says all the right stuff, it’s clear the party as a whole can’t be trusted to keep to any policies except racism and tax cuts for the rich. Anyone whose primary interest in the party was anything else is left wondering what they’re voting for.
Jinchi
You’re talking about a family from Massachusetts? I don’t know if I believe that story. The culture there is that everyone speaks simultaneously and if you want to be heard you speak up. Interrupting isn’t considered rude and if you wait for a pause to speak, you won’t get to speak at all. It was a habit I had to break when I left the northeast and discovered other people took offense to it.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@hitchhiker: American Independent is already taken, it’s George Wallace’s old party. After Wallace was shot, John Schmitz was their Presidential candidate in 1972, he was also Mary Kay Letourneau’s father.
Emma from FL
As I said in the thread below, I don’t much care at this moment who we ally with or even with the concerns about Biden not being liberal enough. The barn’s cinder, the kitchen is burning, and there isn’t enough water in the well to save the house. We MUST concentrate on that, from every direction. If the never-Trumpers turn out to be Ronald Reagan zombies, I’ll take them.
Barbara
@Roger Moore: I think today’s Supreme Court decision on birth control and educational employees will be used as an effort to keep that from happening to the religious wacko wing of the party. They’ve been taking it on the chin so far. I am sure retaining the right to bully “nonconforming” teachers — LGBT, people cohabiting, going through fertility treatment — will feel like a victory. And of course, the right to bully and shame women who want to use contraception never gets old.
Tim C
@MattF: my feelings g was the Iraq war failure and economic implosion of 2008 had a huge impact on Rank and file GOP voters. Part of Trump’s success in the primary was him saying the quiet parts loud, but it was also the total failure of the “grownups” Romney’s humiliating loss also weakened the establishment GOP further.
catclub
I still expect there will be penumbras of the equal dignitude of the states doctrine that forbid inconveniencing a sitting GOP president. Does not apply to Bill Clinton or future Democrat, see election 2000.
VeniceRiley
We need a Republican Party small enough to drown in a bathtub. Sadly, Joe Biden just doesn’t have the killer instinct that HRC has in spades. He’s got BI right in his name. He’ll give them some breathing space and appoint one of his old R buddies and try for bygones, because he is nostalgic for a time when these guys were his friends, and could get him to do things like roll Anita Hill under a bus.
Still voting for him and sending postcards though!
trnc
Tech CEO attempts reputation save:
Pro tip – you don’t lose control if you don’t have your foot jammed down on the gas pedal in the first place.
Kay
I’m optimistic about it because what’s happening as the GOP descends into the Q Party quality goes down. Republicans had this whole discussion about this after they lost in 2012 – ‘oh my God where did all these dopes and grifters and racists come from?” and then they all ran after Trump and forgot about it but their party is now composed almost entirely of really low quality hires, at the national level.
They may never hire the never Trumpers but they have to hire someone and the people they hire are going to come from the bottom 10%. I mean, Jesus. Look at some of the Trump judges. These people would NEVER have been federal judges in a high quality operation or organization.
This happens in the private sector too and you’ve all seen it. Good people just don’t work for bad companies. They either don’t take the job or they don’t stay. So much of hiring is based on this- you absolutely are measured by your prior employer.
They can reject the Never Trumpers if they want but the next tier down who will replace them? LOW quality.
Chyron HR
@VeniceRiley:
I’m old enough to remember when Secretary Clinton was going to sell us out because she was to the right of Trump…
zhena gogolia
@CaseyL:
I laughed heartily at their Russian-language ad, but upon reflection I can’t accept it. It’s just too inaccurate, unfair, and over-the-top.
Roger Moore
@trnc:
I think he’s thinking of a case where they tore down a statue of an abolitionist who had served in the Union Army.
Jinchi
That was my take too. But he might also have decided that there was so much hostility among Defense leadership that he would never be free of it.
zhena gogolia
@Ella in New Mexico:
Me too.
Spider-Dan
Unless you are ideologically opposed to the concept of the Blue Dogs, I have no problem with Bill Kristol, Jennifer Rubin, and Rick Wilson as Blue Dog Democrats. Are they any worse than Heath Shuler, Ben Nelson, or Blanche Lincoln?
svendsen
@Ella in New Mexico:
Yup.
There are serious fractures in our party right now. We are mostly willing to work with each other to get Trump out but any smart person has to expect serious infighting when the clear and present danger is gone.
I will also accept imperfect allies in that upcoming fight.
Yutsano
@Another Scott: Tbh I don’t buy that Roberts’s fall wasn’t related to his seizures. You don’t get observed overnight just from a cut in the head even if concussion is suspected. Thomas has long been speculated as the next retirement even before the election. With Alito I have to go the Scalia route and root for the cannoli. But we could also lose Ruth Bader Ginsburg before the election (please God send all the angels to protect her!) or even in the transition period. Or Breyer could decide to hang up his robes. Anything like that could happen between now and the election.
Kay
You see this systemic loss of quality in the work they do. Or don’t do.
The Republican Party has had TEN YEARS to develop a response to Obamacare and they have nothing.
Joe Biden is going to run against Republicans on health care using exactly the same argument Obama used in ’08 and it is 100% valid because they did NOTHING and they lost the 2018 midterms on it. No response to that AT ALL.
This is bad work. It’s a reflection of the people they hire.
MattF
@trnc: How does that work? Tech CEO demonstrates, publically, that he’s a racist. He’s then, specifically, asked ‘Could you repeat that for the record?’ and does so. And then… apologizes?
MattF
@Kay: The simple explanation is that Republicans don’t want poor people to have health care. Period.
Steeplejack
The particular one I don’t understand is Susan Del Percio, a regular commenter on Morning Joe—a somewhat visible outpost. She is a “Republican strategist,” but she’s not a ranting “opposition voice.” She seems pleasant, says anodyne stuff and offers bland analysis. She worked for Andrew Cuomo and in Rudy Giuliani’s mayoral administration but has run her own consulting firm for at least the last five years.
My question is: who the hell are her clients? The Republican Party has gone so crazy that it’s hard to believe there are still “reasonable Republicans” out there with cash to burn on consultants. If there are, I don’t hear their positions or policy proposals anywhere. Apparently the message isn’t getting out.
Every time I see her I want to ask: Why are you a Republican? How can you say that you are one in the current environment? How can you align yourself even tangentially with the current face of the party? I’d just like to hear her defend herself one time.
Maybe Del Percio is one of the ones who think that things will go back to “normal” after the Trump fever burns out. I just don’t see how anyone with any degree of political savvy can think that. Plus, the Republican normal wasn’t so great before anyway.
Kelly
@Leto: Retiring for his teammates raises my admiration for him.
Baud
@MattF:
“Neither my past nor future actions reflect who I am as a person.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@trnc: I’m an older gentleman and posting on BJ is about as high tech as I get. I spent an embarrassing amount of time yesterday trying to create a PDF. And I would know that if someone were angrily aiming their cell phone at me, there was a good chance that they were at least gonna put it on twitter or facebook. I would not choose to escalate the situation. This guy, I think, founded and runs for a tech consulting firm in the actual Silicon Valley? “I think I’ll show the whole world that I’m a racist fuckwit!” Big brain.
bemused
@trnc:
Times are a changing and these people haven’t noticed how many of the raging racists acting out wide open in public are getting immediately fired from their jobs or arrested. I don’t suppose Fox or wingnut media airs these videos so they probably have no idea it could also happen to them. Seriously, many of them seem to also be mentally deranged or drunk so unlikely to stop self-harming themselves.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
The people most likely described as Never Trumpers were the ones that were continually derided by the far right as “Neocons”. I’m super OK with them, as they generally occupy space that traditionally been in the center-to right side of Team D. Say what you will about people like Rubin and Kristol, they never gave off nasty racial vibes. Steele has been fantastic, and Schmidt, Galen and Wilson have been clear that they’re evolving.
I don’t think that operatives like Schmidt, Galen or Wilson have any future with GOP candidates – they’re acting like pros, and any democrat would do well to bring their experience aboard.
trnc
@Roger Moore: Yeah, apparently in Madison, Wi. Thanks.
J R in WV
@germy:
I would hope that no one but Tucker Carlson is thinking that Tucker is really presidential timber.
Brachiator
@Yutsano:
Today’s Supreme Court rulings make conservatives happy and give them hope for the future. They would love for Roberts to step down, and even for Thomas to retire and give Trump a chance to replace them with younger justices, even if Trump loses the November election.
And the possibility of Ginsburg also stepping down would be icing on the cake.
hueyplong
I read the tweets of lots of Never Trumpers because they best feed my anti-Trump cravings. Some observations that may or may not be accurate:
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Yutsano: They could keep you overnight if you were sufficiently dehydrated.
Hoodie
LP looks like a marketing campaign for its members, not necessarily an attempt to rebrand the GOP. These guys are mostly consultants, i.e., they’re in this business to make money, not to be part of the Biden administration. They’re doing a pretty good job showcasing how effective they can be in taking down Republicans. I would not be surprised if a Dem or two hires one of them to help take out a GOP opponent, especially in a purpler district. If the Dems take the Senate, it will be by taking some swing or even red states (e.g., MT), and they’ll need to be able to compete in these states to hold on to the Senate. The kind of marketing chops these guys have could be useful in some of these states. The LP signals that (1) they have the chops and (2) they’re willing to work for moderate Dems.
trnc
@MattF: I know, right? I assume by this time tomorrow, he’ll be a former CEO.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
good lord
Kay
@MattF:
Preexisting conditions. There are tens of thousands of Republicans. Not one of them is even going to take a stab at it? They’ve just abandoned the field on health care. Biden just shows up and he wins on it- they’re not there. Obama must laugh his ass off. All that drama and he put through the largest expansion of government funded single payer since Medicare while they were screeching about death panels. It gets bigger every year. He’s been out of office since 2016 and states are STILL joining.
Kay
@hueyplong:
I like George Conway because his teenage daughter attacked him on social media. I also like her.
It’s a rite of passage now, it just usually isn’t national.
Brachiator
@trnc:
Here’s the thing, though. Although protests against racism have increased, and there does seem to be a new commitment to solving these problems, there is a counter movement where people are increasingly comfortable espousing their racist beliefs in public and in verbally assaulting people.
And in some cases, they happily invoke Trump’s name as they hope for a greater racist future.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@hueyplong:
Yup, he’s clearly having a fine old time, and I’m guessing raking in money hand over fist. I think those “MSNBC contributor” spots can bring in six figures, and he’s probably at the top of the range. Add in two best-selling books and speaking fees? He’s come a long way from holding the camera when Rudi dressed up as Ginger Grant and filmed… something with trump. Was it a mock commercial for trump’s cologne?
Kelly
Grant statue pulled down was in San Francisco
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/20/san-francisco-statues-ulysses-s-grant-junipero-serra-francis-scott-key
hueyplong
@Kay: Happily, I missed that with my kids (I think). But they were teenagers in the late 00s, so maybe it wasn’t as much of a thing then.
I enjoy Conway. I just don’t have any positive expectations for him if/when Trump lies a mouldering in his political grave.
Steeplejack
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I could see Wilson working for Rubio as a nominally “reasonable Republican” (with some post-Trump blurring of the record). Wilson was Dubya’s Florida field director in 2000 and did a lot of work for Giuliani from 1997 to 2000. And of course he did the hatchet job on Max Cleland in 2002.
If he has had a “road to Damascus” conversion, I’d like to see more evidence of it than just hating Trump.
Roger Moore
@hueyplong:
I’m pretty sure it’s posturing on his part. He and his wife are mercenaries, and they’ve decided the safest strategy is to have one in each camp. If Kellyanne ruins her reputation by working so closely with Trump, George will still be able to get gigs because he opposed him.
Kropacetic
Well, everyone has a camera these days. Make these racist assholes pay.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@hueyplong: I actually wish more people on the left would think about the “voting for judges” thing. I still don’t see that issue as getting a lot of play (I am admittedly in something of a bubble, so I can’t say for sure, but it doesn’t seem to get a lot of discussion, even with, as pointed out above, RBG being something of a medical miracle and more spots likely to open up in the next few years.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Steeplejack: like I said, he swears he’s gonna keep going after trump-enablers post-trump. We’ll see. I’m not betting on it, but I’d enjoy watching it. Also, I believe he was at least a Rubio supporter– if not employee– in 2016, and I could see where he would take Rubio’s caving as a personal betrayal.
joel hanes
@SiubhanDuinne:
The “whisper to get the floor” tactic used to work for me in some meetings, when I could exercise enough self-control to curb my normal large resonant voice.
Also helps to sit in the middle of one side of the long table, instead of at or near an end. Spend most of the meeting leaning back slightly while you listen — then when you lean forward to speak, you capture every eye.
MattF
@hueyplong: Mostly agree. Kristol, though, gives me serious heartburn. At best, his judgement, however sincere, is provably bad.
Just One More Canuck
@?BillinGlendaleCA: that was yesterday
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Just One More Canuck: You are correct.
CaseyL
@MattF: Sargent is saying out loud, and in print, what many people who don’t have big newspaper OpEds have been saying for a while.
I have a Zoom meeting in a few minutes, so I can’t reread his piece – does he include the whole GOP as part of the “deliberate malevolence”? Because they are.
Villago Delenda Est
Donald is the logical result of 50 years of the “Southern Strategy.” The GOP has been exposed for what it truly is, a party of incorrigible white supremacy and unadulterated greed.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Betty Cracker: thank you! I am so sick of the Democratic Party pandering to the mysterious independent voter while throwing things like abortion rights under the bus. The pandemic has made that even more of a reality. Hell No I do not want to see a Republican in a Cabinet post
Captain C
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: As of 2016, we were told that this was blackmail, and that it was more important to pout and sit out than accept 90% of what one wanted. I still see this occasionally, but I suspect it’s limited to people who are mainly concerned with impressing their Twitter circle by losing beautifully. After all, they’re not the ones who will actually suffer the consequences.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@narya:
It would be a centrist party, like the Republicans were before they were taken over by the Dixiecrats. My views are basically center-left. The more Bernie-like the Democrats become, the less comfortable I feel. I know center-right people who have sometimes reluctantly voted Dem at the National level because they think Republicans are crazy, not because they align well with a lot of Democratic policy proposals. Sometimes they reluctantly vote R because Democratic policy proposals can be actively hostile to the industries they work for (aka. insurance, energy, etc). Personally, a perfect world for me would the extremists on both ends unite and form the Crazy People party, so the rest of us could get together and focus on good policy / good government.
Lacuna Synechdoche
@CaseyL:
If we want to keep winning elections after 2020, I don’t see that we have a choice. Mud-wrestling is happening. The GOP will keep dragging Democrats into the mud as long as that’s the ground they think they can win on.
So I think the more important question isn’t whether we want that for the Democratic Party – it’s going to be part of our future, just as it’s been part of the past 30 years, whether we want it or not. Instead, to me, the question is: how are we going to combat that, in 2020, 2022, and beyond?
I wouldn’t mind having a few masters of the political dark arts of mud-slinging and slander on our side for once. Frankly, I’m more worried that, having seen the Democratic light, they’ll no longer have the stomach for it.
MattF
@CaseyL: He’s saying that the people making excuses for Trump are the ones in denial, so that would include the GOP regulars.
Fair Economist
@Hoodie: More or less my thought about the Lincoln Project. They will never be our allies; but for the most part they were never the Republicans’ allies either. They are mercenaries, and they work for who pays them.
jonas
The idea that the GOP as the country’s primary center-right party can ever be redeemed after Trump is a pipe dream and the Never-Trumpers know it. I don’t think they ever plan to identify as Republicans again and, quite frankly, will probably have prices on all their heads by the time this is all over, if they don’t already. The only option is to start building a non-Trumpist, alternative conservative party and hope that the Trumpist GOP implodes to the point where its members decide to give it up and come back and join the normal party, or stick with the GOP and see who wins the 2024 primary between Ivanka, Tom Cotton, and a 2A-rights supporting mule believed to have a telepathic connection with Q.
Ruckus
@zhena gogolia:
Will they remember what their party really is about? This is not anything new, it’s just more open, their reality is just being said out loud.
RobertB
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Ringo’s birthday was yesterday. Mine too, but I’m a little younger than Ringo.
Doug R
If they keep primarying so as they get loonier and loonier, eventually they get taken out by a moderate Democrat, especially if the sore loser also runs in the general.
Democrats took some +20 seats in 2018, there’s a Democratic Senator in Alabama FFS.
We do, however have to watch out for 2022-Tea party 2 Electric Boogaloo.
Ruckus
@trnc:
He’s trying to apologize for saying the shitty parts out loud, to have it both ways, be the wealthy shit he just proved himself to be, and to still be an outstanding member of the community. I hope the community says “Fuck No.”
Kelly
On the business man digging in on wingnuttery topic. A few days ago I yelled at the manager of my nearest local hardware store not requiring staff to wear masks. I didn’t start yelling but he firmly supporting nonsense. That evening I wrote an email apologizing for yelling swear words and a few paragraphs on mask safety and effectiveness going back to the 1918 flu pandemic. The owner of the store replied thanking my for the apology but no mention of masks. The guy owns 4 hardware stores. We’ll just shop elsewhere and warned our friends. One of our friends knows the owner and took it up with him on Facebook. The owner used careful language but is clearly of the fear is the problem, Democrat Guv Brown can’t tell me what to do camp. Local Community Connections Facebook is full of wingnuts spewing wingnuttery to defend the common sense hardware of the owner. Contrast is when I go to any other store in town staff is 100% masked and customers at least 90% masked. So a lot of people seem to get it. Guv Brown has designated Oregon OSHA for enforcement. They only have 75 people to enforce workplace safety statewide so we’ll see how it goes.
Feathers
I think some of them will do work for blue and purple state Republicans, who are running away from Trump. You can still make pretty good money on a losing candidate.
Some will become “media Republicans,” shitting on Democrats, but shitting on the QAnons harder. These guys don’t like the Dems, but they are personally offended by the non-reality-folks. It’s visceral. Kind of like Chait with college students and teacher’s unions.
Some will also move over into the corporate world. There will be always be a billionaire’s boys club trying to make sure there is a voice for Wall Street in the Republican party. The money will be dark, but they’ll have some sort of outfit where no one knows what they do, but everyone has lake houses with huge boats.
The dangerous thing is them spreading overseas like Carville et al. did after Clinton’s win. There are a lot of people wanting to run the Reagan style austerity and tax cuts scams on the local populations. It’s about shutting out the Left more than any sort of governance.
My hope is that the Covidebacle will show the world that you really do need someone with the skills to run things.
ET
I can’t say it is true for all of the Never Trumpers or Project Lincoln guys, but at least one of them (I can’t remember which one but it was one of the more well-known ones) feels like the GOP or at least the tRump version needs of it, needs to die. He couldn’t make that happen until tRump doesn’t control the party. I assume they will go after more of the apparatus that brought them to this point if more work needs to be done after the election (and it will regardless of how the vote goes).
Medicine Man
@hueyplong: I think this is a pretty good read on what motivates the Never Trumpers.
I follow Rick Wilson’s twitter for exactly the reason hueyplong cites above. I agree that Wilson is mercenary, but I’m also pretty sure he’s cottoned to the fact that this isn’t a game we’re playing.
If he were simply playing the long game, I would expect him to be soft on congressional Republicans but he’s firmly in the “burn it all down to the waterline”-camp (like Nichols). He’s also full of scorn for the DC creatures who climbed on board the Trump gravy train.
On the other hand, he made his mea culpa for past ratfucking, put it in a book and sold it, so there’s that. Perhaps he’s an example of how a person can be both money-minded and still have some principles.
To be honest, I’m just beyond caring about people’s petty sins anymore. Current circumstances have rendered a lot of our political differences moot in the short-term.
satby
@MattF:
I’ve believed that for a long time.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
It’s most likely going to be California on a national scale; the GOPer Wingnuts have no reason to change as long as their R+10 district will vote for a dead, bloated hamster as long as that hamster has a R after it’s name, so that leaves non crazy conservatives into dropping the Culture War BS and working with the Dems on things both sides want. The only thing that will change this is some demographic shift were isn’t enough paint chip eating voters to make being a wingnut politician viable.
hitchhiker
@hueyplong:
That’s how I see them, too. You might mention Stuart Stevens, who has a book coming called It Was All a Lie.
He’s done with Republicans, and trying to atone for his part in what they became.
Aziz, light!
@trnc: Mister Racist CEO’s company either has one employee, or fewer than ten, depending on source. He won’t lose his gig but hopefully his clients will all tell him to eat shit and die.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I agree with this.
misterpuff
@zhena gogolia:
Several of the last couple LP ads have crossed over to unfair (if any attack on Drumpf can be unfair considering what he dishes out). And that’s why we Dems don’t do these type ads. But appealing to the emotional is what they do. And I’m glad they are doing it to Trump.
artem1s
@mad citizen:
Maybe it’s time for ‘christian conservatism’ to die. the GOP has already lost it’s connection to the more extreme members and grifters in Liberty U land. The Bush’s didn’t go far and/or fast enough. Don’t forget W promised them they would get to persecute the gheys forever and ever amen. And he blew that and so many other core issues by nominating Roberts to the court. Trump was acceptable because they knew he would nominate whatever train wreck the xtian right put in front of him and they had their McConnell ace in the hole to get them thru the senate hearings. The GOP/Xtian marriage is on the verge of a very messy divorce. The real question is how much longer will they be willing to share their fundraising info with one another. My bet is the Falwell’s of the world are going to stop letting the GOP anywhere near their donors for awhile. The only GOPers ‘conservatives’ left will be the 1%, Raygun, supply side economic, Greed is Good kind.
Stuart Frasier
@trollhattan:
The electorate is going to be about 6 percentage points less white in 2022 than it was in 2010. A Tea Party sized wave wouldn’t even win back the house in 2022. Each election cycle going forward becomes harder for the current white nationalist incarnation of the GOP. At some point, they have to reorganize or they will become a rump party, like the GOP in California.
PST
I’m late to this party, but I want to put in one more word for Jen Rubin based on a column yesterday headlined Let’s not mince Words. Trump is a racist. She starts out by congratulating Anderson Cooper for very directly calling Trump a racist who says racist things. That’s how it ought to be done. Then she says:
And it goes on from there. No doubt she will always be a deficit and foreign policy hawk, but she’s clearly not going back.
artem1s
@narya:
The cannot credibly claim fiscal responsibility, with their history, so what, exactly, would the platform be?
They still have the women to hate on and keeping ‘those’ people out of their country clubs. I mean really, isn’t this what we’re talking about? they are appalled at Trump but not Kavanaugh.
EthylEster
@Chief Oshkosh: Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?
Well, there is wingnut welfare. I don’t think any Rs (always or never Trumpers) are going to suffer much. Be inconvenienced? Yes. Suffer? No.
EthylEster
@germy: Raise the retirement age to 70, reduce Social Security budget, more tax cuts for the wealthy, less corporate regulation, but not as blatantly racist.
So like old timey Conservatism.
EthylEster
@trollhattan: “Thank you for your service” seems pretty hollow, looking at how he’s been treated. Same goes for the captain of the Roosevelt.
But both will get very nice pensions, which is something. I think we as a county suffer more from their loss than than they do.
And I absolutely loathe “Thank you for your service”. It’s the classic example of an empty expression of appreciation, beyond hollow, sort of like the non-apology apology.
whatsername
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
It would be a hideous disappointment if Biden names any Rethug to any post at all.
I have two words for anyone who thinks that R cabinet members are a good idea: James. Comey.
Ruckus
The current, staunch conservative right wing, AKA the republican party, really exist because of one person, Rupert Murdoch. He built a political lighthouse for staunch conservatives, around the English speaking world. He didn’t do this by being a politician, he sold it over 3+ decades using TV and print media. We’ve all seen what decades of lies and bullshit can do, if we aren’t all paying attention and yelling loud enough. shitforbrains is the result of those decades.
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
Absolutelly This.
They screwed the pooch, and everything else, not us. We are and have been attempting to govern for everyone for the last 100 years, they have been screwing everyone and everything during that time. They want to join in for responsible government, welcome. They want to join in to stop responsible government, screw them.
Miss Bianca
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: If *only* they were voting for dead, bloated hamsters with a (R) after their names instead of the live and ambulatory GOP pond scum currently running.
Ruckus
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Back in the box, slam the lid, spray on a little faux news and all will be forgotten.
BobTX
Read this whole thread earlier today. Thought it was funny that this came out today, slamming GOP pols for cowardice and support of Trump, explicitly focusing on holding them accountable post-Trump:
“Names”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vZp3FAQZvU
The Lincoln Project folks certainly aren’t focused on only Trump. I hope they really go after these collaborating pieces of junk more, and actually buy airtime in their home states. They do slip in a “donation” pitch at the end.