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You are here: Home / Healthcare / COVID-19 / Policies, Getchya Policies Here!

Policies, Getchya Policies Here!

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Stephen Berry and Zach Cooper, of the Yale Public Health and Economics Departments, say that Congress isn’t doing enough on the pandemic. They have specific suggestions:

  • If You Want to Save the Economy, Stop the Pandemic

That’s the title, but it’s a good suggestion. More:

  • In the face of competing proposals, our suggestion is to do all of them. 
  • Widespread testing with and without contact tracing
  • Production of enormous quantities of masks and personal protective equipment to allow daily life to resume in relative safety
  • Effective treatments
  • Multiple routes to vaccines

They figure it would cost a half-trillion dollars, and that that would be a good thing no matter what.

Joe Biden talked yesterday (or sometime, it gets fuzzy) about his economic policies. His task forces, which included Bernie supporters (am I allowed to say that here?) and Warren supporters (ETA, thank you Betty!), produced six:

  • Combating the climate crisis and pursuing environmental justice
  • Protecting communities by reforming our criminal justice system
  • Building a stronger, fairer economy
  • Providing a world-class education in every zip code
  • Achieving universal, affordable, quality health care
  • Creating a 21st century immigration system

Each task force provided an overview and a list of recommendations. The overviews come first, then the recommendations. A lot of recommendations.

It’s smart to bring the Berners and Warren supporters in. I haven’t worked through the policies in detail, but they generally look good.

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

115Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    Our main dispute with the “Berners” was never over policy goals.

    I hope this convinces people that voting for Biden is voting “for” something instead of against Trump (to the extent there are still people who need that.)

  2. 2.

    Nicole

    That was a good read, Cheryl; thanks for posting it.  I was most struck by the authors’ take that the US is behaving as though we’ll definitely have a vaccine in 12 months, even though there’s no indication that will be the case.  And so all this money is being flung at the “economy” instead of at the cause of the economic destruction, which is the virus

    ETA- and even there, we can’t seem to do what works best.  It’s highly unlikely the additional pandemic UI will be extended, despite a large number of economists saying that would be of more benefit to the economy than another round of stimulus checks.  But hey, the US gov’t hasn’t valued expert opinion so far in the pandemic, why start now?

  3. 3.

    Gin & Tonic

    Trump in Doral, Florida: “People don’t remember – nobody ever heard of it until I came along, nobody remembered it for a long time or they didn’t use it at least, I use it all the time: Abraham Lincoln was a Republican. You know you say that and people say, ‘I didn’t know that.’”
    — Manu Raju (@mkraju) July 10, 2020

  4. 4.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Nicole: We should be extending UI and having another round of stimulus checks. :/

    The problem this whole time is that we’re hamstrung by a Republican Party that wants to do as little as possible to curb the pandemic and its economic effects. The overall spending and damage is going to be much less if they just exercised all options, but they don’t want to for ideological reasons. It’s sad.

  6. 6.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Gin & Tonic: I can’t believe he’s STILL talking about this.

    Look, the reason why most politicians didn’t bring it up all the time is because it’s stupid and didn’t matter. It’s the argumentation skill of a 6 year old.

    They teach this in fucking grade school. But it was always transparently stupid when the people who say it are trying to defend 50+ years of institutionalized and knowingly systematic racism within their party. It’s like saying that you shouldn’t be punished for breaking the TV because 2 years ago you told on your sister when she broke the TV.

  7. 7.

    Nicole

    @MisterForkbeard: 

    The problem this whole time is that we’re hamstrung by a Republican Party that wants to do as little as possible to curb the pandemic and its economic effects. The overall spending and damage is going to be much less if they just exercised all options, but they don’t want to for ideological reasons. It’s sad.

    Very true. If ever a time called for “Why not both?” it’s now. But as this goes to individuals, and not corporations, the GOP can’t see the value.

  8. 8.

    Kay

    The only part I’ve read is student debt. Allowing it to be discharged in bankruptcy! I support that and I’m pleased it’s in there.

    I’m impressed it’s in there too because that is a sore spot with Biden, the bankruptcy bill, and I think it’s gracious that he made that specific concession. Bankruptcy courts are specialized – they’re experts and they do a good job and they already exist. It’s a fair, smart way to determine need and it solves the problem of unfairness- people who paid their loans back or skipped college completely because they couldn’t afford it, and so won’t be included in any debt forgiveness.

  9. 9.

    Mary G

    In today’s oh, for fuck’s sake, WaPo says “Touting criticized study, White House presses FDA to authorize hydroxychloroquine — again. It’s Peter Navarro and Rudy Pattootie, with a questionable study. Somebody’s stuck with a bunch of it and needs to make bank.

    “A reversal [on hydroxychloroquine] would be widely seen as bending to the political will of the White House, and the hit to Dr. Hahn’s credibility would be profound,” said Steven Joffe, a medical ethicist at the University of Pennsylvania.

    The FDA’s response to this pressure will be closely watched, not only because the White House has already been criticized for pushing to influence the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s guidelines for the pandemic but also because the agency will take the lead in approving a vaccine for the coronavirus, a decision that could potentially affect millions. Health experts say it is important for the agency, which was criticized for its initial decision to okay hydroxychloroquine in March, to guard its credibility as it prepares to make these landmark decisions for a public sometimes skeptical of vaccines.

    I put the odds at Hahn’s standing up to Twitler at slim to none. I took hydroxychloroquine for RA more than 30 years until it became impossible to get in March. Now I could get it with a much higher copay, but I don’t feel worse enough to bother.

  10. 10.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Baud: I’m glad to see the influence on Biden that the Berners are getting. I don’t think it’ll help much – when I posted their recommendations on Health Care the other day, my Very Reasonable Berner friend said “This is weak tea!”

    I think they’re going to be in the same position here as in the primary – anything less than Bernie’s original unrealistic position isn’t acceptable. This will help them hold their noses I guess, but it’s not going to help them be happy with Biden.

  13. 13.

    hueyplong

    Trump’s Sat pm rally in NH is supposedly canceled due to a tropical storm.

    I just googled “New Hampshire weather forecast” and it is showing an approx 15% chance of rain tomorrow night.

    Maybe a flight path to get there would be problematic, but the fact is that I googled the weather because the first assumption is always that they’re lying.  About any and everything.

  14. 14.

    NotMax

    Post office took away our ZIP code several decades ago. It overnight became reserved solely for P.O. boxes. The rest of us have to share a ZIP code with the next town over.

    So the computer of every place one orders from automatically plugs in that town’s name as part of the address and most of them gag on accepting a correction.

  15. 15.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @MisterForkbeard:

    my Very Reasonable Berner friend said “This is weak tea!”

    as somebody who hates Bernie Sanders with a passion and thinks the top-line candidates’ heedless rush to jump on the single payer bandwagon is what made Joe 2020 possible, I thought he could have started with something bigger, but maybe he started with something that Jaime Harrison and Barbara Bollier can effectively campaign on.

  18. 18.

    ShadeTail

    I’ll grant Sanders this much, he’s not repeating the same narcissistic bullshit he did back in 2016. That highlights what a blatant misogynist he is considering the only real difference between Clinton and Biden, but it’s still one baby-step forward.

  19. 19.

    Ken

    @hueyplong: But the caravan of Trump supporters is practically there! It’s not easy or cheap driving from South Dakota to New Hampshire, you know, especially with the Canadian border closed.

  21. 21.

    mali muso

    The entirety of my week (and foreseeable future) has been taken up in discussing the implications of the recent ICE “guidance” on international students and the fall semester.  This article in the Chronicle does a good job of laying out the meanspiritedness behind it.  As usual, the cruelty is the point.

    In truth, the ruling should be unsurprising, since it manages to accomplish in one stroke three of the central objectives of the current administration.

    First and most important, it continues and extends the pattern of this administration of treating the pandemic not as a public-health emergency but as an opportunity to advance policy objectives, and in particular the objective of excluding as many immigrants as possible from the United States. No matter if these immigrants are permanent or temporary: the fewer the better.

    Second, it maintains the charade that the pandemic is over and that the United States is “open for business” by pressuring colleges to offer their classes in person, regardless of the health risks to students and employees. This policy was announced, as it happens, on the same day that Donald Trump tweeted that “SCHOOLS MUST OPEN IN THE FALL!!!” Since the federal government has virtually no authority to force schools at any level to OPEN IN THE FALL, this policy is the next best thing: extortion. Hold in-person classes, no matter the guidance of public-health officials, or lose all of your international enrollments.

    Third, it creates a host of problems — pedagogical, financial, ethical — for higher education, an industry that many conservatives, particularly Trumpian conservatives, absolutely love to hate.

  22. 22.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Betty:  @geg6: Warren was on the Hayes program last night and in his intro and opening questions he was trying to get her to take credit for the economic plan. She was having none of it, it was all “What Vice President Biden has done….” She’s a team player with her eyes on the prize(s).

    Compare and contrast with another prominent figure who insisted on presenting their committee’s proposals as having forced Biden to bend the knee.

  23. 23.

    Fair Economist

    @Mary G:

    It’s Peter Navarro and Rudy Pattootie, with a questionable [hydroxychloroquine] study. Somebody’s stuck with a bunch of it and needs to make bank.

    It’s all about the grift.

  26. 26.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Baud: No argument there. The things that were added to Biden’s plans are genuine improvements and many of them are just slightly past realistic – but we can get most of them done with a Democratic Senate. I like them and they’re good additions.

    But we don’t really need to chase stragglers anymore, as you say. Biden’s aware of this – he’s not going to cause giant rifts with the left or right wings of the party, but he’s going to grant concessions where they help him get elected. It’s a good fit.

  27. 27.

    Leto

    @Gin & Tonic: Trumpov letting us know Lincoln was a Republican, Megan McCain letting us know her dad was John McCain… nobody ever knew those facts before they told us those facts….

  30. 30.

    Leto

    @mali muso: Here’s some more ICE fuckery:

    ICE Offering ‘Citizens Academy’ Course with Training on Arresting Immigrants

    The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency is set to launch a six-week “Citizens Academy” course on immigration enforcement, which will include training for citizens on how to arrest undocumented immigrants.

    A letter published online by The St. Louis Inter-Faith Committee on Latin America (IFCLA) appears to show ICE Chicago Field Office Director Robert Guadian inviting shareholders to participate in the course, which includes six days of training over a six-week period starting in September.

    “You have been identified as a valued member of the community who may have interest in participating in the inaugural class of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO) Chicago Citizens Academy,” the letter states.

    Noting that the program is “the first of its kind,” Guadian states that the program will “serve as a pilot for nationwide implementation.”

    During the training, stakeholders would receive training on a number of “facets and responsibilities of ICE/ERO operations,” he says.

    Included in the course would be training in “defensive tactics, firearms familiarization and targeted arrests.”

    The training would be “scenario-based,” he states, adding that exercises would be “conducted in a safe and positive environment.”

    In a statement sent to Newsweek, ICE spokesperson Nicole Alberico said the academy was “an extension of the community relations work ICE is already doing in the community.”

    “The goal is to build bridges with the community by offering a day-in-the-life perspective of a federal law enforcement agency,” she said.

    Hmm, “build bridges”?

    Speaking with Newsweek on Thursday, however, Chicago Congressman Jesús ‘Chuy’ García said he was disturbed by the program, which he fears will lead to racial profiling, surveillance and potential violence.

    The “Citizens Academy” was first brought to García’s attention when his wife spotted a social media post about it.

    “The first thing I thought was, ‘is this a prank or fake news or what is this?’ because it’s appearing on social media and neither I or any of my staff had been alerted or reached out to by ICE,” he said.

    As a member of Congress, García had thought a program like this would have been brought to lawmakers’ attention prior to its rollout, but it never was.

    “I should not be learning about this on social media and I resent that,” he said.

    The six-week course, García said, appeared to be “inviting people to become an extension of ICE… to possibly surveil their neighbors who might be undocumented.”

    He also feared that the invitation might appeal to “right-wing individuals who might like the vigilante lifestyle,” which could lead to potential violence.

    “Absolutely. When you incite people with hateful and intolerant rhetoric for four years and you ratchet things up, especially if the polls show you’re behind or struggling you can become reckless and that’s my fear,” he said, appearing to refer to President Donald Trump’s current struggle in the polls.

    Recommend reading the whole thing, because it’s just fuckery top to bottom.

  32. 32.

    mali muso

    @Leto: I saw that on Twitter and couldn’t even bear to read the details.  It’s just… Rage.  Inducing.

  33. 33.

    The Moar You Know

    @Leto: Was wondering when we’d get around to forming the SA.

    This seems awful late in the game.

  34. 34.

    Yutsano

    @Leto: She will also remind you John Sidney Mccain III was a POW. You knew that right? If not she’ll gladly tell you. And tell you again 5 minutes later.

  36. 36.

    Roger Moore

    It’s smart to bring the Berners and Warren supporters in.

    It’s smart in multiple ways.  On the politics side, it lets people who supported other candidates in the primary know that he respects them and isn’t going to ignore them.  On the policy side, it shows he’s willing to adopt best-of-breed policies, even if they didn’t originally come from his people.  And in practice, any policy that has to go through Congress is going to have to go through those people anyway, so you might as well get them working on policy now so they can hit the ground running in January.

  39. 39.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Baud: This this this.  The problem has been that Bernie has no clue how to implement his policies (he can probably get a post office renamed, but that’s about it), he’s an egomaniac, and he doesn’t play well with others.

    Economic policy needs to be unrigged, in that it’s now rigged to benefit pure parasites like the Koch klan, the DeVos klan, the Mercer klan, the Waltons (not the John-Boy Waltons, fer sure.) and the rest of the parasite overclass.

    Rig the economy to benefit the actual job creators, the workers who are also consumers and drive the economic engine.  Supply side is pure bullshit, and Adam Smith saw this 244 years ago, but then again, no one bothers to read Adam Smith, they’re all mesmerized by the concept of the “Invisible Hand” which needs help from being manipulated by said parasites.  Decorum inhibits me from mentioning what they all truly deserve, let’s just say Place de la Concorde and leave it at that.

  40. 40.

    Leto

    @mali muso: Definitely. I saw the headline and was like… wait, what? Read it and just… rage. There’s needs to be an exhaustive deep cleaning at most of the Immigration agencies because it seems to be brown shirts all the way down.

    @Yutsano: But did you know that John Sydney McCain III was her father? Not sure if you knew that. If you didn’t know, she’ll gladly tell you in case you have a goldfish’s memory.

  42. 42.

    Roger Moore

    @Baud:

    Our main dispute with the “Berners” was never over policy goals.

    I might argue that.  I agree that if you presented a list of my political goals, the Berners would probably agree with at least 95% of them.  Where we differ is on priority.  For example, I think the whole argument about how we should replace Obamacare is idiotic when we have dozens of other policy issues that have been getting short shrift.  Spending as much time trying to pass M4A as we did on Obamacare will prevent us from achieving a lot of other important goals.  As tempting as it would be to go there, we should limit what we do on Obamacare to some obvious technical fixes until after we’ve worked on a new VRA, fixing our immigration system, infrastructure, ending predatory lending, childcare, education, etc.

  43. 43.

    Jinchi

    @Gin & Tonic: “…people say, ‘I didn’t know that.’”

    Trump uses that line a lot. It’s always clear that he is the person who didn’t know it.

  45. 45.

    Mary G

    @HinTN: The stenographer is getting off the boat:

    Yes the weather is bad but “people familiar with the sign-ups said the interest in the rally was significantly lower than for rallies that took place before the coronavirus paused campaigning.” https://t.co/dHb0BXtikz— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) July 10, 2020

  46. 46.

    Jinchi

    @Leto: “You have been identified as a valued member of the community who may have interest in participating in the inaugural class of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO) Chicago Citizens Academy,”

    I wonder how they go about identifying the valuable members of the community?

    This just reminds me that George Zimmerman was out playing citizen cop when he murdered Trayvon Martin.

  47. 47.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Roger Moore: I have viewed, since it was implemented, ACA as a baby step toward a national health care single payer system.  It gives time for the parasite middlemen and their minions to rethink their lives and find another way to make a living, as we eliminate the unspeakably complex private insurance system with something much more in line with “keep it simple, stupid” and providing actual health care, not stress inducing insanity (apologies to David, the whole system just sucks swamp water).

  49. 49.

    different-church-lady

    which included Bernie supporters (am I allowed to say that here?)

    Yeah, you’re allowed to say that here. What people aren’t allowed to say here is that Biden is a shitty rapist who’s gonna hand the election to Trump because he refused to just roll over and die when Bernie took New Hampshire.

  50. 50.

    different-church-lady

    @Mary G: Like I said: in that location there’s likely to be more protestors than rally-goers. These people do not do their homework.

  52. 52.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Your Friday afternoon outrage…

    John Roberts @johnrobertsFox
    · 1h
    The alert lights are “blinking red” for a possible Roger Stone commutation this afternoon…..

  53. 53.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Just heard that on MSNBC. Disgusting but, of course, not at all surprising.

  54. 54.

    different-church-lady

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    and he doesn’t play well with others.

    Another thing I’ve said before: if Bernie knew how to make friends he’d be running for his second term right now.

  55. 55.

    Leto

    @Jinchi: I can’t wait for people to pull out their ICE participation cards as justification for trying to murder people.

  56. 56.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mary G:

    The stenographer is getting off the boat:

    Don’t know how far off the boat she is yet, but she seems to be okay with getting her toes wet.

  57. 57.

    Mary G

    Breaking REVERSAL: @WHO has formally recognized that #COVID19 can be transmitted indoors by droplets in the AIR: people in crowded settings with poor ventilation run risk of being infected by the coronavirus as the droplets circulate via the air indoors.?https://t.co/8SvSIcjDch— Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) July 10, 2020

  61. 61.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    howardfineman @howardfineman
    · 1h
    Just had a long talk with #RogerStone. He says he doesn’t want a pardon (which implies guilt) but a commutation, and says he thinks #Trump will give it to him. “He knows I was under enormous pressure to turn on him. It would have eased my situation considerably. But I didn’t.”

    1) Doesn’t a commutation also imply guilt? does it erase the conviction in any way? IANAL
    2) Isn’t Stone telling us he could have turned on trump, that trump is, you know, guilty? Well yeah, but… once again, public apathy is trump’s greatest asset. /sigh/

  65. 65.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @different-church-lady: in addition to not being a lawyer, IANAMD, but I believe it breaks down to: this shit can travel further than six feet, especially indoors, but in much smaller particles, which are less dangerous, but still dangerous. And I think air conditioning helps move those smaller droplets around.

    anybody else have “droplets” move up above “moist” or “ointment” on the list of words I just don’t want to hear anymore?

  66. 66.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Mary G: The weather in Portsmouth, NH is actually *not* bad, and will not be bad tomorrow. The remnants of tropical storm Fay are moving well to the west, and will hardly affect us here in southern New England. It will have blown through coastal NH by the time most people finish their first cup of coffee.

  69. 69.

    Mary G

    @Baud: I’m no expert, but the controversy was how long the virus stays up in the air. Before it was considered just big drops that dropped to the ground quickly, now it may be aerosolized and stay in the air much longer.

  70. 70.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: IIRC…

    six feet was shortened from two meters, which was shortened from the original recommendation of three meters, because people were worried about compliance. Sneezes can travel up to five I think?

    But yeah, aerosols can spread the virus and are especially pernicious indoors, particularly in buildings with recirculated air. Which we’ve known (to the degree we know anything about the virus) for a while. The WHO pretending not to know it has undoubtedly killed people.

  71. 71.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    The lovely Amy McGrath is a Marine Corps veteran. The average donation to her campaign is $36.

    Mitch McConnell is a broken-down old man owed by cheap labor lobbyists.#DefeatMcConnell
     

    — Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) July 10, 2020

  79. 79.

    jonas

    @MisterForkbeard: I remember a couple of years ago, Rand Paul was (for some reason) invited to give a talk at Howard University and he was like, “now, you kids may not know this, but Lincoln was the OG — original GOP-er — and freed the slaves. So that’s why you should vote Republican now.”

    As you might imagine, this proved less than convincing to a room full of HU students.

  81. 81.

    Phylllis

    @Baud: Why yes, reopen schools, which are air-conditioned buildings full of people for 8 hours a day ASAP.

  83. 83.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @HinTN:

    It missed D.C. Caused some flooding in Delmarva and made landfall north of Atlantic City. I’m eight miles west of the Potomac, and it’s been sunny and clear all day.

  84. 84.

    mrmoshpotato

    Stay safe this weekend, my friends.

    [I did a prelim in Indio once and I got out and headed to my car at about 4 PM and it was like 110 degrees and when I started the car it informed me that about 10 systems were non-functional because of the heat and when I sat down I singed my taint through my suit pants]— RadicalLeftIndoctrinarionHat (@Popehat) July 10, 2020

  85. 85.

    Roger Moore

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    It’s not that I think fixing the healthcare system is an unworthy goal; I’m just not convinced it’s the best place to put our effort right now.  Completely replacing it with M4A would be as much of a knock-down, drag-out fight as passing it the first time, and doing that stalled a lot of the other stuff that needed doing.  That pile of other stuff hasn’t gone anywhere under Republican misrule and has actually gotten worse.  Yes, we should patch some obvious problems with Obamacare when we can do it relatively quickly, but I don’t want to see the 2021-22 legislative session turn into an endless shouting match about healthcare while immigration, police reform, infrastructure, voting rights, etc. get short shrift again.

  87. 87.

    Chief Oshkosh

    I guess the Russian bounties on our soldiers is A-OK with the Republican president and with the Republicans in the Senate and House.

    How has this already slipped out of the news?

  88. 88.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Nicole: I think it’s closer to say the Republicans convinced themselves the Democrats will fix it and the Republicans can just sit on their behinds and tell everyone what a bad job the Democrats are doing. There is sense that’s dawning on some of the Republican that this won’t work.

  90. 90.

    Roger Moore

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: 

    1) Doesn’t a commutation also imply guilt? does it erase the conviction in any way? IANAL

    AFAIK, to accept a pardon, you have to admit that you were guilty in the first place, but you don’t have to do anything to accept a commutation. You can just walk out of your prison.

    2) Isn’t Stone telling us he could have turned on trump, that trump is, you know, guilty? Well yeah, but… once again, public apathy is trump’s greatest asset. /sigh/

    No. We all know that it’s possible to extract a false confession from someone or to get them to make up lies about a supposed co-conspirator in exchange for leniency, and that’s what Stone is saying was happening to him. He could have gotten out scot-free if he had been willing to confirm the prosecutors’ lies about Trump, but he manfully went to prison rather than bend to their evil scheme.

  93. 93.

    debbie

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Republicans have always brought that up. Just like they’ve always said KKK members were Democrats. They didn’t start dissembling when Trump arrived; it’s what they’ve always done.

  94. 94.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Roger Moore:

    AFAIK, to accept a pardon, you have to admit that you were guilty in the first place, but you don’t have to do anything to accept a commutation. You can just walk out of your prison.

    A commutation doesn’t erase the guilty verdict, so he’d still be CONVICTED FELON Roger Stone.

  98. 98.

    debbie

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    I think the youngs ought to pick another rally and do the same thing but then post on Twitter. Then sit back and watch as Trump veers back and forth between wanting to ban Twitter and wanting to tweet more and more.

  100. 100.

    Ksmiami

    @MisterForkbeard: I was an early Biden supporter because of Trump as existential threat but I’ve actually been impressed with how good of a politician he actually is

  101. 101.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Roger Moore: Absolutely agree.  We’ve got a stopgap that addresses the most heinous feature of the old “system”: preexisiting conditions.  There are things that need attention right this fucking minute: the pandemic, and near term, the cops.

  106. 106.

    Another Scott

    @NotMax: At least “HI” wasn’t erased.

    I recall once trying to get information at work from a company’s web form and they didn’t have “DC” available as a “state”.

    Um…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  107. 107.

    prostratedragon

    @Leto:
    I cannot read that article right now –this dragon is prostrate for good reasons– but is there any way this action can be challenged in the courts? Is ICE really authorized to form a task force and give people the power of agency without some action by Congress, maybe?

  108. 108.

    prostratedragon

    @Gin & Tonic:  You’re just saying that because you don’t have another fizzled rally there that you don’t want to attend.

     

    Let me go to a live thread …

  112. 112.

    Another Scott

    @debbie: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-airborne/pandemic-exposes-scientific-rift-over-proving-when-germs-are-airborne-idUSKBN24B2YG

    The Geneva-based World Health Organization acknowledged this week that the novel coronavirus can spread through tiny droplets floating in the air, a nod to more than 200 experts in aerosol science who publicly complained that the U.N. agency had failed to warn the public about this risk.

    Yet the WHO still insists on more definitive proof that the novel coronavirus, which causes the respiratory disease COVID-19, can be transmitted through the air, a trait that would put it on par with measles and tuberculosis and require even more stringent measures to contain its spread.

    “WHO’s slow motion on this issue is unfortunately slowing the control of the pandemic,” said Jose Jimenez, a University of Colorado chemist who signed the public letter urging the agency to change its guidance.

    Jimenez and other experts in aerosol transmission have said the WHO is holding too dearly to the notion that germs are spread primarily though contact with a contaminated person or object. That idea was a foundation of modern medicine, and explicitly rejected the obsolete miasma theory that originated in the Middle Ages postulating that poisonous, foul-smelling vapors made up of decaying matter caused diseases such as cholera and the Black Death.

    “It’s part of the culture of medicine from the early 20th century. To accept something was airborne requires this very high level of proof,” said Dr. Donald Milton, a University of Maryland aerobiologist and a lead author of the open letter.

    […]

    My reading of the open letter – https://academic.oup.com/cid/article-pdf/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa939/33478095/ciaa939.pdf (9 page .pdf) – is that they’re not arguing that there’s definitive proof that COVID-19 is mainly spread by aerosols.  They want people to be more aware of the evidence that it is important and want WHO and other organizations stressing the possibility.

    One of the main things they point to is that study of transmission as it related to AC airflow in the restaurant in China (which we heard about months ago).

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  115. 115.

    Bill Arnold

    @Mary G:
    (ETA @Another Scott‘s link is helpful too.)
    Sheesh. Looked at the WHO scientific brief.
    Transmission of SARS-CoV-2: implications for infection prevention precautions (WHO Scientific Brief, 9 July 2020)
    (Paper links in the brief are to C:/Users/areid. Sloppy :-)
    It’s better, but the authors are clearly still ego-involved in their early (expert) guesswork recommendations, which will end up killing at least hundreds of thousands of people. IMO. CDC shifted more quickly.
    Bold mine:

    Despite consistent evidence as to SARS-CoV-2 contamination of surfaces and the survival of the virus on certain surfaces, there are no specific reports which have directly demonstrated fomite transmission. People who come into contact with potentially infectious surfaces often also have close contact with the infectious person, making the distinction between respiratory droplet and fomite transmission difficult to discern. However, fomite transmission is considered a likely mode of transmission for SARS-CoV-2, given consistent findings about environmental contamination in the vicinity of infected cases and the fact that other coronaviruses and respiratory viruses can transmit this way.

    And yet, hand hygiene is still given first place in their list of precautions, masks for source control in 4th(/5th?) place.

    At all times, practice frequent hand hygiene, physical distancing from others when possible, and respiratory etiquette; avoid crowded places, close-contact settings and confined and enclosed spaces with poor ventilation; wear fabric masks when in closed, overcrowded spaces to protect others; and ensure good environmental ventilation in all closed settings and appropriate environmental cleaning and disinfection.

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