The Journal of the American Medical Association has a short article saying that the evidence is strong for wearing masks in public.
There is good evidence that masks help both in keeping viruses from being spread by the wearer and also in preventing the wearer from breathing viruses in. Further, wearing a mask does little harm, which is greatly outweighed by the benefit of reducing transmission.
Some selections:
After emerging data documented transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from persons without symptoms, the recommendation was expanded to the general community, with an emphasis on cloth face coverings that could be made more widely available in the community than surgical masks and to preserve personal protective equipment such as N95 respirators to the highest-risk exposures in health care settings. Now, there is ample evidence that persons without symptoms spread infection and may be the critical driver needed to maintain epidemic momentum.
…recent research of household textiles’ performance when used as source control suggests cloth face coverings may be able to do so with acceptable efficiency and breathability.
Like herd immunity with vaccines, the more individuals wear cloth face coverings in public places where they may be close together, the more the entire community is protected. Community-level protection afforded by use of cloth face coverings can reduce the number of new infections and facilitate cautious easing of more societally disruptive community interventions such as stay-at-home orders and business closings.
At this critical juncture when COVID-19 is resurging, broad adoption of cloth face coverings is a civic duty, a small sacrifice reliant on a highly effective low-tech solution that can help turn the tide favorably in national and global efforts against COVID-19.
The article is easy to read and gives examples with references. Check it out.
[Apologies to Betty Cracker for bigfooting.]Cross-posted to Nuclear Diner
Matt McIrvin
One of the authors is CDC director Redfield, and I’d say his standing as a good Trump soldier would make the article more convincing to people of that inclination, except that Trump seems to be actively undermining and disparaging the CDC now.
Cheryl Rofer
@Matt McIrvin: I was concerned about Redfield for somewhat opposite reasons – that because he is a good Trump soldier, what he says can’t be believed. But you make a good point.
Redfield seems to talk out of the scientist side of his mouth on even-numbered days, and out of the Trumpie side on odd-numbered days. I guess it’s his way of walking a difficult line.
trnc
Bingo! This is the clearest explanation I’ve seen of how masks are like the vaccine we don’t have yet, and it’s the part the anti-maskers don’t get. They think getting the virus first leads to herd immunity.
jonas
I doubt this will mean much. One-third of the country are irredeemable WATBs.
trnc
@Cheryl Rofer: I’ve read that Redfield is also extremely verbose and unclear, but I haven’t tried listening to him because I figured he wouldn’t provide any useful information beyond what is posted on the CDC website.
jonas
“Yeah, but who gives a fuck about the community?”
— Your Average Mask-Truther
NotMax
Consensus has determined that water is wet.
//
lgerard
Check out some of the comments on this crazy person’s Youtube videos.
They all start out as “I am medically exempt” and end with “I’m not letting a demonic communist dictator make me wear a face diaper!”
Bonus point for those who brought in Agenda 21.
different-church-lady
The only… I repeat, ONLY… reason this conclusion is in any way controversial or not self-evident to anyone with intelligence higher than plankton is because the president of the United States is a complete and resolute asshole.
NotMax
@Igerard
“It’s a plot to fog up my glasses so I can’t see the black helicopters and chemtrails.”
//
dmsilev
@lgerard:
Pity. Given the amount of shit coming out of their mouth, a face diaper sounds like a reasonable idea.
Baud
Masks are weak sauce. When I go out, I wrap my whole head in a clear plastic bag for 100% protection.
(Please don’t do this.)
Baud
@dmsilev: ?
wvng
@jonas: I have a no mask guy who keeps telling me “if you are afraid stay home” macho bull, when in fact he is the threat to public safety and should be forced to stay home. He can’t even process the reality that Governor Justice will keep ratcheting restrictions up as too many people refuse to wear masks. Justice has been clear that he has no intention of presiding over a WV charnel house.
eric
@lgerard: that was concentrated insanity.
NotMax
@Baud
Recyclable plastic, one presumes.
;)
catclub
but for herd immunity you need leather masks. geometric logic.
trnc
@different-church-lady: I second that.
dmsilev
@eric: ‘YouTube comment section’ should have been the giveaway sign there.
Cameron
@Baud: Works even better if you spray the inside with Lysol first.
catclub
maybe fool them into wearing them by saying they protect from chemtrails.
different-church-lady
@Baud: Luxury! We dream of having clear bags. We have to use contractor bags, and dark green ones at that!
Marcopolo
@Baud: I hear tin foil is where it’s at.
Roger Moore
And therefore unacceptable. Doing something even the tiniest bit inconvenient in the name of helping others is sacrilege in the cult of the individual.
trnc
Psssst. I know a place you can get those, but you never heard it from me, ok?
trnc
@dmsilev: I have to say, I am sometimes pleasantly surprised at the comment sections on youtube and other sites, generally more so lately.
trnc
Those are the mint-scented ones, right?
Mary G
Not sure I’ll listen. The comparison between who is president and who should be is too ginormous.
Dorothy A. Winsor
We’ve been wearing disposable paper masks. Would we be safer with cloth masks? I can’t tell from the stuff I’m reading, because they seem to rule out paper masks from the start as something to reserve for medical workers.
Marcopolo
@Matt McIrvin: My take on Redfield is that as the dimensions of the pandemic have expanded he’s finally decided to take a stand, more or less, for the science over the politics.
I also think this is why Trump & his court have decided to underbus the CDC. I’m posting on my phone which is a pain in the @ss or I’d link to the reporting about how, as of today, the CDC has been taken out of the COVID-19 data reporting loop. Hospitals are now supposed to report COVID stats to some entirely new database housed somewhere else in DHSS & run by a company with ties & backing from the CIA. Oh, and there will not be any public access for the data. Doesn’t that sound like a totally innocent thing to do a half year into a pandemic that your administration has fucked up royally?
Frankensteinbeck
@Roger Moore:
They never liked it, but when a black man did it for them, it became absolute anathema. Charity from a black man. They’re still enraged about it.
Roger Moore
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
The paper surgical masks should be fine. My employer (a hospital) gives cloth masks to people without patient contact and the paper surgical masks to people who come into contact with patients. That says to me they think the paper ones are better.
Major Major Major Major
As always, I’m proud to have been a mask crank from the start.
Fleeting Expletive
Has this been mentioned here or did I see it on somebody’s twitter feed:
“Wearing a mask under your nose is like wearing your underpants under your penis”
Now I don’t think I’ll ever be able to see someone doing that without stifling my snickers.
I’ll snicker at their knickers.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Roger Moore: Thanks. I got a pack of 50 on Amazon.
NotMax
@Dorothy A. Winsor
Nothing inherently detrimental about the paper ones. Washable cloth ones more economical in the long run, though.
And we’re in for a long run.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@NotMax: I thought maybe I’d try some washable cloth ones in cooler weather, by which time we’d have run out of the paper ones.
Fleeting Expletive
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I did too. Amazon seems to have ample vendors @ $20/50 pieces, the plain disposable surgical masks.
J R in WV
@Marcopolo:
But don’t try aluminum foil, only tin has the majick to block the government RF waves!!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
FL state rep Anthony Sabatini is a total asshole piece of shit. Was being interviewed on CNN about his lawsuits against metro areas requiring masks.
Thinks Florida is doing just great and is a total smarmy ass. Came across as a sociopath, too
“Hospitalizations and deaths are the best metrics.”
Nevermind that deaths are a lagging metric. Also ignored test positivity rates and pretended the interviewer was talking about # of cases only
“Government requiring face masks violates the Florida constitution!”
Oh, but he’s fine with business “incentivizing” mask wearing.
When the Alabama governor mandating masks was brought up, he said she’s terrible and will be voted out by the voters
The dick had an answer for everything, no matter how nonsensical it was. Definitely gave off big “prepare to be DESTROYED with FACTS and LOGIC libtard!” energy
JPL
If I’m shopping in a crowded store, which is seldom, I make sure to insert a filter in the cloth mask. I have some vacuum cleaner bags and removed the thin hepafilter from them. I use that. Coffee filters are just to heavy for GA weather.
Kent
Costco is now selling paper masks by the case. They have boxes of 50 for about $19.99 so $0.40/each and there were pallet-loads on display at the entrance to my local Costco yesterday. They look like ordinary paper surgical masks with the wire piece to shape to your nose.
Brachiator
@Matt McIrvin:
As far as Trump is concerned, the pandemic is over. He thinks that he can bring things back to normal by force of his will. Kind of an extension of his Sharpie insistence about hurricanes. Once his mind is made up, that’s it. Done.
The news is that all data about the pandemic is going to the White House, not to the CDC. It is no longer public information.
As far as Trump is concerned, there is no pandemic anymore.
JPL
A lot of the paper masks sold by Amazon are not the same quality as regular disposable surgical masks.
JPL
@Brachiator: President pissy pants has talked his way out of trouble all of his life, and he assumes he can again.
NotMax
@Dorothy A. Winsor
I have some cloth ones but prefer the repurposed yarmulkes for both fit and comfort. Prices have no doubt fluctuated but snagged a 5-pack of pretty blue yarmulkes on Amazon for about 8 bucks before the ca-ca hit the rotating air movement device.
If a search for yarmulke on Amazon isn’t satisfactory, try searching for kippah.
Used a hole punch to make a hole on each side and looped a ponytail elastic through each hole. Voila. Instant mask.
Eunicecycle
Governor DeWine of Ohio is having some kind of special briefing at 5:30 today and says it’s about the coronavirus. I’m hoping he’s putting out a statewide mask mandate. Right now it’s county by county depending on that county’s numbers. It’s dumb and confusing.
Kent
Oklahoma governor now has Covid.
My personal prayers are for four GOP Senators to come down with Covid and maintain at least a contingent of four of them in the ICU on ventilators between now and January 20. We don’t need them to die, just lose their voting majority for the next 6 months to prevent any Senate actions or confirmations without Dem votes.
J R in WV
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Local Drug Emporium, which sells some of everything, now has a big rack of paper disposable masks coming into the store, and more at the cash registers.
These are NOT N-95 masks suitable for health care workers, but seem OK for a trip to the farmer’s market. If I’m going to be in Kroger’s for 2 hours, I still use my industrial respirator with N-100 filter packs suitable for use in a chemical accident cleanup.
I can’t smell blue oily vehicle exhaust from the old truck beside me in the parking lot with that puppy on my face, although I do look like an invader from Mars!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Brachiator:
This shouldn’t be legal. There has to be a way to stop this.
Anyway, this isn’t going to stop hospitals from being overwhelmed. Or hide the bodies piling up
mrmoshpotato
@lgerard:
Then they should wear real diapers, because they’re obviously shitting themselves over this. Stupid, self-centered Trump trash.
MomSense
@lgerard:
I just found out that the Agenda has been updated! The UN changed its 21st century to 2030. There was a Karen in Nashua who went off on some contractors and she started ranting about Agenda 2030. Sure enough the UN updated their evil scheme!!
Kent
Kayne West ends his presidential campaign after 10 days or “one full Scaramucci”
Gotta say, the Mooch is kinda growing on me.
Kent
Well, one assumes that all the blue states will continue to report their data publicly. I sure as hell don’t expect my governor Inslee to go along with this sort of crap. It is all state data.
As for what states like TX and FL do, who the hell knows. I doubt their existing data can be trusted.
PS…I don’t now how to double quote here.
mrmoshpotato
@different-church-lady:
In the interest of completeness, he’s also a racist, fascistic, pu**y-grabbing, Soviet shitpile mobster conman who’s been sucking the Kremlin’s asshole since 1987.
Gretchen
Red hat in a restaurant pulled out his gun when told he needed to wear a mask. Restaurant owner told him he can’t shoot a virus and he needed to leave.
Marcopolo
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Whelp, it kinda sorta isn’t legal. There are rules on the books about how medical data is supposed to be reported:
But whether those rules will be enforced & by whom is anyone’s guess in Trumpcrazytown. Sure someone with standing (no I don’t know who that would be) could file suit but lawsuits take a bit to get resolved.
Brachiator
This is who he is. No one cared when he was an insane private citizen. It is a disaster for the country. That the Republican leadership lets him get away with this makes them complicit in Trump’s insane failure as president.
Matt McIrvin
Trump can’t force states to keep COVID-19 data secret, and there are national aggregators other than the CDC. So I doubt this is going to make it much harder than it already is to tell what’s going on.
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: Viola! Instant larger violin.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
True, but it might help.
SWMBO
I was in a Facebook fight yesterday. The niece of my uncle-in-law asked why she should wear a face mask since she wasn’t sick. I posted the meme where they showed two people talking, without masks, one with a mask and both with masks. I knew she was a solid Trumper from before but Jesus on toast, she and her idiot son went after me. “No one is going to make me wear a mask.” “You’re just a libtard sheep!” “You’re a pedophile!” I told him I was not and had never been a pedophile and that his comment was defamation. They just kept attacking me and a couple of others who were trying to convince them that wearing a mask was a good idea. Nope. I pointed out that my aunt (heart) and uncle (heart) and his sister (polio) were all medically vulnerable and asked them to wear a mask around them. Nope. They weren’t sick and they weren’t wearing masks and don’t try to tell them how to treat their elders. I hope that my aunt, uncle, and his sister all insist on masks and social distancing. I also hope that the antimaskers get what they deserve, especially if they insist on taking it to the sicker members of the family.
mrmoshpotato
@J R in WV:
These are both positives.
Also – SMOKEMOBILE!
Van Buren
@Roger Moore: My son works in a lab where it is impossible to maintain social distance. About 2 weeks ago, paper masks became mandated, which says management there also believes them better than cloth.
MomSense
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I have a friend who makes beautiful cloth masks with awesome fabrics. She also puts something along the top that you can bend to mold over your nose and cheeks. She charges $5 per mask. Not sure what she would charge for shipping. She’s on Instagram. I could connect you.
I’m going to pick some up for my dad and stepmom in Florida. I have 6 for myself now.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@MomSense: Thank you. At the moment, I’m looking at some my DIL bought that my son says are very comfortable at work. I may be back!
Major Major Major Major
I highly recommend this Atlantic article on a new way of thinking about herd immunity. We already knew it was a factor of R0, and so it can be achieved at a lower antibody rate as long as we wear masks, close bars, etc. But the new thinking is that it’s heterogeneous—not everybody is equally likely to get it—so you may hit herd immunity as low as 20%, more likely 40%. Further evidence that masks will let us return to a semblance of normalcy sooner
theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/07/herd-immunity-coronavirus/614035/
jonas
“Hey, if you’re concerned about my drunk driving, stay off the road!”
Same logic.
Punchy
@lgerard: Jade Helm, bitches.
sheila in nc
@Roger Moore: Rather, it might mean that the patient contact people need to dispose of their masks more frequently, while the people who don’t have patient contact can just wash and rewear theirs.
Kay
Eli Stokols
@EliStokols
·15m
As Trump tries to separate himself from Navarro’s attack on Fauci, a WH source tells us that POTUS himself approved it:
“Not only was he authorized by Trump — he was encouraged.”
But we all assumed they were lying. All of them. That’s just Wednesday.
Brachiator
My sister made some masks for various family members. But I also ordered some disposable masks from Amazon. The last time I tried to order some more, they were back ordered.
The last time I was out running errands, I noticed some dry cleaners selling masks for reasonable prices. Don’t know if that is still an option.
No Costcos nearby. I haven’t noticed whether the local pharmacy sells masks.
A bit of a pain. I prefer mixing up disposables with masks that I have to wash and recycle.
Kelly
I will continue to wear the mask Mrs Kelly made me. Custom fit to enclose my beard and she salvaged the nose wire from a coffee bag. Made from one of my old shirts it’s double layer and we have matching masks!
Mallard Filmore
@Matt McIrvin:
“Due to National Security concerns, the President has declared that all data in the following subject matters will be considered Top Secret ….”
Another Scott
Thanks Cheryl.
ICYMI, NHK World video of effects of masks on micro-droplets (1:07)
Wear your masks!!
Cheers,
Scott.
Roger Moore
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I saw somebody saying that this isn’t legal; hospitals are required by statute to send that data to CDC. I didn’t see a reference to the appropriate USC or CFR, though, so I would take that with a grain of salt.
Mallard Filmore
@jonas:
All those olds, and the sick … we could build some nice facilities for them to live in while the True Americans get on with the business of keeping the economy going.
We need plenty of space, and thats a lot of people. Now, where can we get all this room? Maybe Walmart parking lots! These facilities are like summer camp, but they will outlast summer, so lets just call them “camps”.
And who will administer these camps? Well, this is an emergency, so FEMA would be a good choice.
Lets round up the olds and put them into FEMA camps on Walmart parking lots! Sound like a plan?
Cheryl Rofer
@Major Major Major Major: I had a hard time with that article. As someone who lives near the Santa Fe Institute and sometimes attends their events, I’ve seen far too much “chaos theory” stuff when it isn’t useful. That’s the case with the Atlantic article. The “chaos theory” part has no relevance whatsoever to the problem they are discussing, which is quite capable of being addressed with regular mathematics.
It is beginning to look like there may be superspreaders, and perhaps network structures make a difference. So it’s worth exploring those possibilities. They may have some value in prioritizing vaccinations.
I found the article hard to read, but that may have been because I reflexively remove “chaos theory” stuff to try to understand what people are actually doing.
Roger Moore
@Marcopolo:
I think the main thing those rules will do is to give cover for hospitals that want to continue reporting to CDC, which I suspect most of them do. If someone wants to try to enforce the White House’s dictate that they stop reporting to CDC and report to someone else instead, they can point to the existing rule as cover for why they absolutely had to send the data to CDC. “There’s an existing entry in CFR requiring we do X” is a very good legal argument for why you did X.
Suzanne
@Major Major Major Major: I read that yesterday. I thought it was a fascinating idea. Moderna also had good news this morning, Fingers crossed. I am really, really stressed out.
Major Major Major Major
@Cheryl Rofer: fair point—I also skipped that stuff as bad science “journalism” fluff. What interested me was the heterogeneity part, which I hadn’t really thought of before, and how it probably means we don’t have to hit the rate suggested by the naive formula.
Nicole
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I think you’re fine with paper masks. I will say cloth masks offer, in the midst of this sadness, a wee bit of fun, because they become a little fashion accessory. Oodles of people are selling them on Etsy, and TeeFury and the assorted tshirt places sell virtually all of their designs on masks now, so if you have a particular pop culture love, you can show it over your mouth. My husband has an “I Love NY” one with the StayPuft Marshmallow man from Ghostbusters, which seems quite appropriate, under the circumstances.
I have a nice blue one with donkeys that says, “VOTE.” :)
Cheryl Rofer
@Major Major Major Major: I’m wary of that, because vulnerable spots will remain and can flare up, although they will be less likely to set the rest of us on fire. The math makes sense, but we’re not going to be really safe until 70-80% of us are vaccinated.
ETA: Yes, I do believe in belts and suspenders where public health is concerned.
Ken
@Cheryl Rofer: There is of course a semi-related xkcd.
Major Major Major Major
@Cheryl Rofer:
Oh, absolutely. I’m more focused on the next twelve months right now, and if it’s true that there exists a world where modest interventions can bring places like NY near herd immunity levels… well, that’s good. Even if everywhere else experiences NYC’s 90 days of hell, it at least suggests a light at the end of the tunnel
zzyzx
@Major Major Major Major: That’s definitely a model that fits the available data, that everywhere is vulnerable until they have their month or two of hell and then things seem much better.
Fitting the data though isn’t the same thing as true. And I do wonder if the Seattle approach of somehow having 140 or so cases a day for months instead of a high peak and a drop off can work too.
wvng
@jonas: perfect analogy.
JPL
Well staying true to form, president pissy pants arrived without a mask and was greeted by the Governor and other folks all with masks on.
Major Major Major Major
@zzyzx:
That’s sort of the original “flatten the curve” plan, no?
Obviously there are some countries that have managed to keep it pretty contained, but they’ll be piles of tinder until there’s widespread vaccination.
JPL
Except for a few people, those in attendance at the UPS hangar to greet the president have on masks. They must have read what happened to those in attendance at the Tulsa rally including Cain. Forget about social distancing though.
zzyzx
@Major Major Major Major: yeah and we’ve been the only place doing it. Everywhere else has either had very few cases but they’re vulnerable to a new one or they’ve had a huge flare up.
Look at our graph. It’s ebbed and flowed but it’s stayed in a range forever.
kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/daily-summary.aspx
Cheryl Rofer
@Ken: Excellent
terraformer
As obvious as water is wet. I’m so damn tired of having to wait for the Neanderthals among us to catch up.
E.
But what about the recent findings that people do not retain immunity after getting the virus? Doesn’t that change everything?
JoyceH
Paper masks can be reused. I read an article that said the best way to reuse a paper mask is NOT to clean it with water, with or without soap, but to set it aside somewhere for 72 hours. By that time, any virus on the mask will have died off and the mask can be reused.
As for me, I’ve become a big proponent of face shields. Protects the wearer from those non-maskers out there. Mask and shield, people. I got two shields on Amazon for ten bucks.
Brachiator
@E.:
But what about the recent findings that people do not retain immunity after getting the virus? Doesn’t that change everything?
The discussion about herd immunity is mainly speculative and coming from lay people. No one should depend on it.
Ken
@E.: Antibody titers fall off, but that doesn’t mean immunity is lost. Immunity has other factors most of which are far more difficult to measure. I recommend Derek Lowe’s “In the Pipeline” blog, he’s discussed this several times.
Kent
We hang ours in the sun on our deck on the theory that solar radiation and UV light are a better disinfectant than just leaving it hanging on the rear view mirror of the car in the garage or someplace else.
Soprano2
I have a casual friend on FB who is a nurse. She was posting today about how it was a big deal that they’re giving everyone who needs surgery a COVID test, and that pumps up the numbers so much and makes things look so much worse than they really are! Never mind that this only makes the number of tests higher, not the number of infected people, and that it’s the only responsible thing to do. One person commented that this is why they’re so glad Trump is taking away the CDC’s responsibility for reporting the numbers, since they are faking the numbers with all these tests. I just kept scrolling, you can’t fix that much stupidity.
Ken
@Kent: Wait a minute, brilliant idea. How can we get that sunlight inside the human body?
(A line which indicates you are either a total idiot, or a serial killer discovering his ritual.)
debbie
This should carry weight with a lot of people. At least until Trump sets about to discredit the AMA. ?
Yutsano
@Kent: When the Mooch went NeverTrumper he found his comedic genius. And his brain. I saw him on TV the other day and he was making cogent points. And interjecting funny bits too.
J R in WV
@debbie:
SWMBO
@Soprano2: You’re friends with my sister on Facebook? Small world.
Geminid
I heard on the 4pm CBS radio news that Walmart will require customers to wear masks, nationwide, starting in 5 days. The greeters will be renamed “health ambassadors” and will furnish masks to customers without them. Same with Sam’s Club.
Major Major Major Major
@E.:
It would if it were true. The one that was making the rounds this week is an anecdote about a person who never had a positive test the first time getting sick. There were other findings that antibodies may only last a few months—but that’s solvable by more frequent injections.
Did I miss something?
PIGL
@Ken: “In the pipeline” is an excellent source of up-to-date reliable information on COVID vaccines and anti-viral treatments. The level if discourse is a bit higher than your average blog, but most of us should be quite able to follow it.
PIGL
@Geminid: I hope they backed up by armed security guards with orders to shoot to kill.
No, I am not kidding.
different-church-lady
@mrmoshpotato: Well, sure, if you’re gonna get all comprehensive about it…
(DCL +I’ve lost track…)