I haven’t followed the VP selection speculation much because my preference, Senator Warren, won’t get the nod, and I am 100% voting for Biden regardless — even if he chooses Susan Collins — because Trump. So, it’s mostly been been background noise to me. But here’s a piece in CNN that claims the three most serious contenders now are Karen Bass, Kamala Harris and Susan Rice.
No telling how accurate that is, but I hope to Christ that Biden isn’t listening to some of the backers quoted in the article, because they offer some truly idiotic rationales for and against the contenders:
Former Pennsylvania Gov. and Biden supporter Ed Rendell, who said he currently does not have a favorite in the search for a running mate, said in an interview that Bass is seen as a “very safe choice” in a way that Harris simply is not.
“Kamala can rub some people the wrong way. Karen Bass is not likely to do that,” Rendell said. “The number one rule for picking the VP? Do no harm.”
It’s axiomatic that no one should listen to Ed Rendell about anything, ever, but these comments are egregiously stupid. I like Bass a lot — she’s probably the most progressive of the trio. But nearly 50 years ago, as a young activist, Bass spent some time in Cuba with a lefty cultural bridge-building program and has visited many times since, and she said something vaguely favorable about Castro when he croaked a few years ago. That could cause problems in Florida.
It’s stupid that something like that could cause problems in Florida because Bass’s activities and comments were a nothingburger, but Florida is known for its razor-thin electoral margins rather than its rationality, so Rendell is wrong to call Bass a “very safe choice,” especially when juxtaposing Bass with Harris in that framing because “Kamala can rub some people the wrong way.”
The people Harris rubs the wrong way are older, powerful white men, such as Ed Rendell, Chris Dodd and Florida ambulance chaser John Morgan:
In multiple media reports, Biden allies have attacked Harris’ motives. Florida donor John Morgan lamented that Harris “would be running for president the day of the inauguration. For me, loyalty and friendship should mean something,” Chris Dodd, a member of Biden’s VP vetting team, reportedly complained to a donor that Harris showed “no remorse” when asked about her famous clash with Biden on the debate stage.
Just shut the fuck up, the entire lot of you. Biden said he wants to be a bridge to the next generation of Democrats, so picking an ambitious VP is a must, dinosaurs.
Anyhoo, on the subject of Rice:
Meanwhile, Rice’s emergence as a serious contender has surprised some in the Biden world, given her limited campaign experience. But her close allies point to her governing credentials from her time in the executive branch and her deep foreign policy background at a time of global turmoil. They also say Biden’s years-long working relationship with Rice is not to be underestimated, particularly given how he has emphasized wanting a partner who is “simpatico with me.”
“If there ever was a time to pick someone without campaign experience, this would be the year,” a Cabinet member from the Obama administration, who knows Rice well, told CNN. “Susan would be the best governing partner.”
The anonymous cabinet official makes a good point about campaign experience, and if Biden-Rice won, she’d have plenty of time to acquire the type of experience she’d need to run for president in her own right, if that’s what she wants to do. Does she? That’s an important consideration.
Rice has a Trump-supporting son, but we won’t hold that against her. My one reservation about Rice is that she was considered something of a hawk in the Obama admin. But Biden fancies himself a foreign policy guy, so he’ll set the tone anyway. Rice is smart and competent, and if Biden picks her, Fox News will stage a Benghazi-fest from now until election day, and I think that could actually be to our benefit because persuadable voters don’t give a shit about that.
One last dollop of dumb from the CNN article, and we’ll call it a day:
Biden enters the final stretch of deliberations as the country confronts a dire public health crisis and a economic recession. President Donald Trump’s approval rating has taken a serious hit over his handling of the coronavirus pandemic — a reality that close allies say should offer Biden the room to choose a running mate without weighing as much as he might in any other election cycle the political and electoral advantages that a specific running mate could offer.
Are you fucking kidding me?!? We’re in the worst public health crisis in a century, the economy is in the shitter, U.S. prestige is at its lowest ebb since WWII, we’re ass-deep in guns, approximately a third of our fellow citizens are in the Cult of Stupid, and Biden is 77 years old.
I get that Biden is likely to win regardless, but the question of by what margin and who becomes vice president could not possibly be more important than it is right now, so yeah, let’s weigh those political and electoral advantages carefully — not just in terms of the upcoming election but for the future of democracy in America, okay?
In summary, whatever. We’ll find out when we find out. Open thread!
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Baud
One of the things I liked most about Hillary was her enemies. Harris seems to be doing well in that department also.
scott (the other one)
@Baud: Yep. I was already a big Kamala Harris fan. These attacks have only served to make me even more so.
I admit, I do wonder if in 2020 the “but she’s a cop!” nonsense will have legs. I hope not, and she’s still by far my #1, but as I said, I still wonder.
Pigdog
I really don’t want to spend the next three-plus months relitigating Benghazi.
just pick Duckworth and get it over with.
Baud
Also, too, someone on the search committee must like Harris if she’s one of the “finalists,” even if it’s not Dodd.
Quaker in a Basement
I think that last “dollup” you quoted says the same thing you did in your first paragraph. Biden could pick Susan Rice or Susan Collins and it won’t matter to voters.
Mary G
@Baud: Yeah, like Betty, I was pretty meh on the whole thing, but these old white guys are coming pretty close to calling Kamala uppity, and now I want her more. Joe needs to tell all his old boys to STFU. They are coming close to sounding like Republicans.
Baud
@scott (the other one): It’ll be noisy, but it wont’ have legs. As the left might say, it might even help us with middle of the road voters.
Demmings was hot not to long ago. I don’t know what happened there (assuming the CNN story has any credibility).
MattF
Harris was my original choice, so I’d be fine with her. Rice would be a thumb in the eye to the FOXies, so she would be good too. And, needless to say, I’d be happy with Hillary or Chelsea.
Quaker in a Basement
@scott (the other one): If that’s a criticism of Harris, then Bass isn’t an alternative. Harris was a prosecutor; Bass was an actual uniformed cop.
Mary G
@scott (the other one): “Kamala is a cop” makes it harder for Republicans to hang the “defund the police” label onto Uncle Joe.
Chetan Murthy
Sure, I think Kamala Harris is great. She’s my Senator, she’s from our area, and she’s a Desi! Represent! But seriously, those fuckin’ men, they’re gonna be all “I’d be happy to vote for a woman — just not THIS woman” no matter WHOM Biden chose.
I’m with you, BC: Biden should be ignoring those fuckers. A VP candidate who doesn’t want to be President …. shouldn’t be a VP candidate. A politician who isn’t ambitious and hungry …. isn’t going to do what needs to be done for the country.
piratedan
@Baud: agreed, while she may not be as “progressive”, I like her pragmatic streak. Knows that legislatively we need to fix things, now as a Senator and as a State AG, she knows how those levers are manipulated and there’s a buttload of those levers that have to be leveraged to get a bunch of shit fixed.
There’s an opportunity to right a LOT of wrongs here in Domestic policy… Biden is adopting a lot of the Harris and Warren platforms into his embrace. Harris can help ease some of the burden of the unfucking of the country and would be a responsible focal point for undoing a LOT of the illegal shit that has been perpetrated if she was running a reconcilliation hearing.
Rice I see running State or being NSA and helping repair our image globally. Don’t know enough about Bass to have an opinion so will refrain from comment on her.
Baud
@Quaker in a Basement: Oh wow. I knew Demmings was a cop, but not Bass.
BruceFromOhio
Which makes Senator Harris an EXCELLENT choice. With you from the top, though, while it will be interesting to know who and why, it doesn’t sway me at all. Let’s get this done already so we can go get on with gutting the KKKonservatives like fish.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Harris is still my first choice, both because I’m a big fan and she strikes me as the conventional choice, including being the most conventionally charismatic, as much as I’m capable of understanding that. I find her ‘likable’, but I found George W Bush double-plus unlikable, and most Americans seem to disagree. I’ve been impressed by what I’ve read, very recently, about Karen Bass, but Ed Rendell should be boiled. (What follows is amateur and egregious punditry, so feel free to stop reading) I feel like if it’s Bass, he’s leaning into the idea of a caretaker presidency. I said back when things looked closer to fifty-fifty that if Harris agreed to tie herself to Biden, to someone else’s career, at this stage of her own, she’s taking one for the team. A Biden/Bass ticket (again, based on my un-researched hunch) sets a clean slate for ’24.
I’m a Susan Rice fan, but I her lack of campaign experience– if anyone has any relevant campaign experience in the age of zoom and home-office campaigning– might be a concern.
And Ed Rendell should be boiled (metaphorically, I don’t like violence. Usually).
Just trying to wrap my head around the idea that Ed Rendell, who spent most of Obama’s first term trolling Obama out of bitterness over the Cabinet or Ambassador job he thought HRC would give him is a source for talking about Harris’ theoretical “loyalty”.
namekarB
I’ll vote for Biden. VP matters for a head start in four years.
Oh for Pete’s sake. Biden has been running for President since 1988 and nobody labeled him as too ambitious.
Each of the candidates carry baggage. Rice will be labeled with a Clinton millstone on her neck. Bass will be tied to Cuba and Harris was too mean as a DA and is unapologetic for saying mean (but true) things in a debate. Good Grief these people. Just shut up and tell us which one has been selected. Enough with all the pearl clutching
Bass for VP
Rice at State
Harris at DOJ
Baud
@piratedan: Right. I see Rice in a top national security or diplomatic position, but she has no campaign experience and no domestic policy experience, or legislative experience (Veeps often work with Congress). She’s impressive, but I don’t see how she makes the most sense as a Veep.
patrick II
I am so fucking tired of “safe” democrats. Biden is the safe choice, and as much as I like Joe, my problem has always been the older cadre of democrats he hangs with are still scared of their shadow because of Reagan. Reagan is dead now. His policies are dead ends. The Republican party that followed those policies are traitors to the constitution — as was inevitable if you put money and race first. If Harris is the one who most offends Republicans, that is a plus.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: She wasn’t.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
One of the nice things about the long Veep search process is that I learned a lot about our deep bench of strong women leaders.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: That’s probably why I didn’t know about it.
Kristine
@Mary G:
Yup.
Also the fact that they’re slamming her supposed ambition to be POTUS–so? Biden–may he win–won’t be running for a second term, and the 2024 pre-primary warmups are going to start in 2022. If Harris decides to run, the Veep position will be a great chance to showcase her. Preview of coming attractions. She–or frankly, whoever Biden chooses–will need to be very active and up front because barring the Inevitable Unforeseen they’ll be the party leader from 2022 on.
Funny how a woman with drive seems to upset old white men no matter their political persuasion.
Baud
Seriously, though, “senior Democratic adviser” has more credibility than Ed Rendell.
thruppence
Just pick one, and let ten thousand bumper stickers bloom.
Roger Moore
I think the thing about picking a VP without concern for politics and electoral strategy is saying that he should be focusing his VP selection on governing after the election, not on appealing to voters during the election. I think that’s probably true regardless. The number of people who are on the fence and will be swayed by the VP pick is minuscule.
J R in WV
I’m for Kamala Harris, all the way. “She was a cop!” is flat out wrong, she was a prosecutor, and then state AG, neither of which is a LEO position.
Plus, in today’s electoral politics, that may be a good thing, having some prosecutorial history and experience. We need a lot of prosecutions in the very near future!! Lots and lots of prosecutions.
Baud
Biden/Harris
Biden/Bass
Biden/Rice
While I like Harris, Biden/Bass does sound better.
ETA: Not sure what’s going on with line spacing
Omnes Omnibus
@Kristine: How do you know that Biden wouldn’t go for a second term (if he wins)?
Eric U.
If rendell was any worse, he’d be Zell Miller
J R in WV
@thruppence:
Fixed that for you!
Kent
I think you are confusing her with Val Demings. Bass was a physician’s assistant and community organizer before running for the state legislature.
Brachiator
On Rice:
Being in the executive branch does not confer “governing credentials.” And I would look more to the secretary of state, not the VP, for foreign policy chops.
This is absurd. Things may be looking good for Biden, but Trump and Pence will typically be nasty boys.
It’s as though these dopes will accept a woman VP, but don’t want someone who could also become president.
The people trying to advise Biden are a bunch of fools. I hope that Biden is smart enough to ignore them.
Quaker in a Basement
@Quaker in a Basement: Nope. I am thinking of Val Demings here. My bad.
Baud
@Baud:
Weird. Spacing problem fixed on my phone.
zhena gogolia
@Quaker in a Basement:
Are you thinking of Demings?
rp
Whoa…I didn’t know that about Rice’s son. That’s disqualifying to me. Probably unfair, but it really rubs me the wrong way.
Quaker in a Basement
@Kent: You are correct. I was reading up on Bass and Demings just a few days ago and scrambled their records and names. Thanks.
Baud
@rp:
I’m concerned she will resist sending her son to the camps.
Wapiti
I think that Harris, like Biden, and Obama, projects authentic caring for people and for the country. I can definitely see her as a younger partner, advising him where he might have a blind spot. And I can see the two of them laughing, honestly laughing, about something funny.
And yes, I want the VP to be prepared to run for President for two terms after Biden’s time in office. I want her to have a head start.
Quaker in a Basement
@zhena gogolia: Uh. Yes? Mistake!
Kristine
@Omnes Omnibus: He’ll be, what, 81? Given all that needs repair, his term will have been a meat grinder. Many Dems were disappointed that a woman didn’t get the nomination, and there are the undercurrents that it’s well past time for a change. Anything’s possible, I guess, but I just don’t see it.
MisterForkbeard
@MattF: Harris was my first choice in the primary and has been one of my first choices for VP since Biden won.
I’m honestly not sure though – she gets dragged A LOT on social media. The Right says she a racist who’s slept her way into power and the Left says she hates gay people, trans, hates prisoners and loves cops.
It’s all nonsense, but it would give the media (and social media) a lot to fuck around with. Rice would have similar problems. Bass might be better there just because she’s relatively unknown, but I agree that she’s too old to the ideal VP to a 77 year old.
Kent
Honestly, if the three finalists are Bass, Harris, and Rice then that basically says to me that the choice is Harris. Bass and Rice sound like the kind of names you put forward as alternatives when you have already made up your mind but still need a couple of names to make it look like you are still deliberating.
If we are talking Warren, Harris, Whitmer or something like that as the three finalists then I’d be saying who knows.
I don’t dislike Bass or Rice. But If I’m a fairly informed long-term Democrat and I don’t really know much about either one then that says something. Well, Rice I obviously know about but she seems the obvious choice for Secretary of State and not VP.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Same! Bass has an amazing background and record. I bet if Rendell read up on her, he’d stop using her as a stalking horse against Harris.
Adam L Silverman
The simple reality is that VP Biden will pick whomever Congressman Clyburn signs off on. Without Clyburn, he would not be the nominee. Since Clyburn will have the last word, we know it will be an African American woman, which removes Senator Duckworth, Senator Baldwin, Governor Lujan-Grisham, and Governor Whitmer. All of these things are what are freaking out Rendell and Dodd and the other fossils. My guesstimate is that it will be either Senator Harris, Mayor Bottoms, or Congresswoman Demmings. All of them have significant experience administrating large organizations. Ambassador Rice does not. Neither does either Congresswoman Bass or Congresswoman Lee. Nor does Stacey Abrams.
Martin
So, I spent a bit of time thinking about Biden and am convinced that there’s a quality to him that doesn’t get mentioned, that kind of explains why people have such differing views of him. One of the many ways you can plot a politician is on a scale from ‘I was elected based on my views, and I should hold true to my values’ to ‘I was elected to represent this population and I’m a conduit for their values, not my own’. Joe is pretty strongly toward the latter side of the scale. More than pretty much any politician I can think of, actually. This is why he can be a practicing Catholic and support abortion -he’s been very clear on that point. But also why he got to gay marriage before Obama did – he saw the trajectory of the electorate and jumped in front of it, where Obama wanted to wait until the electorate got there. This is why he can suddenly seem much more liberal than he was as VP, and why his conservative votes in the 80s aren’t exactly out of character – he was voting for what the public was demanding.
I don’t think being on one side or the other is better or worse. Everyone is some blending of the two. But I do think it’s important to recognize that he tilts to the political winds a bit more freely than others, and that can be both a benefit and a liability.
So regarding the VP pick, I think its likely going to come down to who can take that ride with him. I don’t think anyone has any idea where the nation is going to go post-Trump, with Covid and everything else going on. I think a rigid executive is going to struggle. I think they’re going to have to adapt a LOT. So who has that kind of personality? Who can spot the national mood and lean into it quickly?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MisterForkbeard:
the Left will turn on anyone who agrees to sully themselves by association with notBernie! (unless Biden tests my broken-glass commitment by picking Nina Turner, who probably wouldn’t accept), and the Right and the Russians will, as they did in 2016, amplify those messages, and vice-versa
Gravenstone
Maybe it’s just me, but when the story broke about Dodd’s complaints re. Sen Harris, my first thought was “Cool! we could use someone willing to be ruthless when the situation calls for it.”. Gods know the Biden admin is going to have to be plenty ruthless to root out pro-Trump saboteurs left behind as well as rebuild all the myriad bits of the government they undermined during his tenure. And then there’s trying to reclaim as much international influence as we can manage.
zeecube
I’m still holding out hope for Warren as VP. She has plans to fix things, you know, and the ability to get them done. I’d love to see her eviscerate Pence in a debate.
Kent
Oh..FFS. No matter who Biden picks there will be a hurricane of feces unleashed by the right. None of it will be deserved. And it doesn’t matter which one. Trying to pick the candidate least likely to enrage FOX News and Breitbart is a fools errand and playing right into their hand.
By the time they are done Bass will be a disloyal commie Castro sympathizer. And Rice will be deeply implicated in some sort of Obamagate thing that they just make up but the Senate will still “investigate”
Pick the VP for (1) who is the best campaigner, (2) who will be the best VP second in command to implement Biden’s vision across government, and (3) who will make the best 2024 frontrunner. I think Harris wins on all 3 counts.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: The next 4 years are going to be the hardest to govern since Reconstruction. Biden seems very aware of that. We’re going to effectively need 2 presidents to repair all of this damage, and I think he’s going to pick someone that he can turn loose on big issues. I really only see two candidates filling that space.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Mary G: I know! I couldn’t believe Chris Dodd’s reasoning. Pitbull is what you traditionally want in a VP candidate. I think you nailed it with “uppity”.
gvg
I don’t really want to see any Presidential candidate ever again that hasn’t run for office and has a voting and administrative record so I don’t want rice. I consider VP to also be a Presidential candidate too, especially right now. Not only Biden’s age, but the pandemic.
That said I’m voting dem so Biden can ignore me.
I consider Rice more likely in a cabinet position. Our foreign policy mess needs a lot of clean up.
I wonder if any of these speculations are happening because of vetting for other positions too. Biden must plan to name everyone for every position as fast as he can. I wonder if he could send all of them in one document the minute the oath is done?
S. Cerevisiae
I was for Harris in the first place so I hope Joe picks her, as someone says above she is making the right kind of enemies and I just have a good feeling about her. Biden/Harris 2020!
Roger Moore
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The Left will turn on anyone who sullies themselves by association with compromise. They are the left wing equivalent of the Freedom Caucus, and they want that kind of back bench bomb thrower as their standard bearer.
Rand Careaga
I’m favoring Harris in part on the assumption that there will be at least one vice-presidential debate, in the course of which I would very much enjoy watching Mike Pence being fed into a woodchipper.
UncleEbeneezer
There is very little evidence that the VP pick (aside from a Palin-level WTF) has much influence on the election. For all the bluster of She’sACop/Woke Twitter and the fact that she never gained a ton of steam in the Primary, there’s no reason to think Harris would turn off huge amounts of potential Biden voters. Anyone who claims they can’t support Biden if he picks Harris, wasn’t gonna support Biden anyways.
raven
I have a friend who is Chinese -American, UVA undergrad, Cal Law, and does lots of progressive lawyering in the east bay and she HATES Harris.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: There’s an entire sub-area within political science on this. Specifically are elected officials delegates for their constituents or are they trustees. Over time a third option emerged: politico, meaning that in reality most elected officials are sometimes delegates and sometimes trustees.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@zeecube:
Does that include the ability to get Joe Manchin, Kirsten Sinema and (let’s hope) John HIckenlooper, Mark Kelly, Cal Cunningham and (getting more hopeful) Steve Bullock, Jaime Harrison and Barbara Bollier and Amy McGrath to vote for her plans?
Adam L Silverman
@Gravenstone: Nuts need to be cut right now. Hiring an exceedingly effective nut cutter is therefore appropriate.
Major Major Major Major
I consider how somebody runs their presidential campaign to be a strong indicator of whether they’re good at running things. Harris scores very poorly on that metric. I’d rather have somebody else. But I’ve made my peace with her being the likely pick. Obama’s campaign organization skills were what convinced me he would be good despite lack of leadership experience.
ETA: Not to mention that having run a shambles of a campaign doesn’t bode well for helping run a campaign.
raven
And having been in SDS and The Venceremos Brigade is a nothingburger?
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: No arguments here. Moreover, whomever he picks is likely the Democratic front runner, if not nominee, in 2024. Biden has made it clear he is a transitional nominee and would be a transitional president. While he’d be stupid to announce anytime before his third year in office that he’s not running for reelection, the reality is that if elected he’s serving one term and then handing the baton to his VP.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Are you in text mode, by any chance? Rather than visual?
Hoodie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s actually Biden’s job, and it’s one of his strengths.
Adam L Silverman
@Rand Careaga: There will not be any debates. They actually do nothing to aid Biden at this point. And the demands that the President has made for the debates, combined with the pandemic, make it easy for Biden and his team to hold firm and watch the President, his key surrogates, and conservative news, social, and digital media freak out about it.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I liked Harris in the primaries, so I guess she’s my choice now. But really any of them would be fine. I mean, compared to Pence? Come on.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Major Major Major Major: Jennifer O’Mally Dillon seems to be doing a pretty good job. And I believe he has no official campaign role other than “informal advisor” I think is the term he uses, but all reports are that Ron Klain is likely to be Biden’s Chief of Staff and he’s a legendary manager
Ken
Any sightings of “Biden should reach across the aisle” arguments yet? Like someone (seriously) suggesting he pick Susan Collins. Or Liz Cheney, or maybe Ivanka Trump.
Ohio Mom
I remind myself constantly that I didn’t think Obama, a Black man, could ever win, and I was pretty certain Hillary would — that’s what I tell myself when I get nervous about a Black woman VP running for President after Biden finishes serving.
Which may very well be in four short years. But first things first, let’s get Trump OUT.
terry chay
@rp: Agreed. It says something you raised such an entitled fool.
Of course, “disqualifying to me” means, “if he picks her, Ill still happily vote for Biden.” so it doesn’t mean much of anything in this election.
Kent
Honestly I’m a little mystified by this late shift to Bass. She seems a decent legislator and all, but not particularly dynamic judging from the video I’ve seen. If we are going to pick a little known Congresswoman then Val Demings seems a far stronger candidate. She’s just way more badass, has a more interesting bio coming from poverty. She runs marathons and rides a Harley. She did extremely well on the national stage during the Impeachment. She is younger. And she is from a swing state.
What that tells me is that Bass really isn’t a serious candidate but more a placeholder finalist to make it look like deliberations are still happening.
FelonyGovt
Karen Bass was the Congresswoman representing one of my clients, and her office was very helpful untangling a government contract problem he had. They went out of their way for him. That said, Bass is probably older than is optimum (I think she’s my age, 66) and Harris is still my first choice.
Mary G
The most credible Never-Trumper out there:
Tom Q
There are people out there who REALLY don’t want Harris to advance. Many misrepresent what happened to her in the primaries. Her initial debate (the busing one) actually boosted her numbers significantly. Word was out that the White House saw her as a legitimate threat. Then, in the second debate, Tulsi Gabbard went after her with ferocity, and Russian bots flooded the zone with anti-Harris stuff. Her numbers never recovered.
Flash-forward to today. She seems to be a logical choice, hitting the demographic notes, also reaching out to the more liberal side of the party. (Not to be confused with True Progressives, for whom Bernie himself is the only acceptable choice.) And here, at the 11th hour, there’s this full-court press of Old White Guy Used-to-be Politicians, along with some journalists, characterizing her as a political Typhoid Mary for things that wouldn’t get a raised eyebrow were they attached to a man (or a white person).
Biden is, unmistakably, 77 years old, which makes him an actuarial risk to survive even one, let alone two, presidential terms. The most important part of the VP choice this year is selecting someone who could be a credible (and re-electable) president should something awful happen, or be a logical next-in-line at the end of one or two terms. Neither of these criteria call for someone most people have never heard of (Bass) or someone without a lick of electoral experience (Rice). Harris, as a charismatic candidate with her own base, is easily the top choice.
Maybe to put it all more succinctly: if Ed Rendell is against her, she must be the right choice.
West of the Rockies
Harris or Rice would be fantastic.
Roger Moore
@Adam L Silverman:
This is closest to my feeling. There are some issues where the people have expressed a strong opinion, and on those issues politicians should act as delegates. There are other issues where the public hasn’t expressed a clear opinion, and in that case politicians are necessarily trustees.
WaterGirl
@Martin: Before Joe said “yes” to Barack, Joe said he expected to be the last guy in the room with Barack when Barack was making a decision. And he was.
So Joe is going to be looking for someone who can play the role that Joe played for 8 years.
Given that, I think Joe’s choice will be made a lot more on style, personality, chemistry and trust. Joe knows exactly what role he wants that person to play, and his choice is not going to be about who is a good campaigner or any of the other crap that these old white guys are talking about.
BruceFromOhio
@raven: very curious to explore that. Not a knock on your contact, just wondering what drives that view.
raven
@FelonyGovt: If she studied at San Diego State I wonder if she had Angela Davis for a prof?
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: The first question that should always be asked of Baud is if he is wearing pants. And I don’t care if he has one of these cards, not pants, no Balloon Juice tech support!
JMG
Odd. Before this campaign, Biden’s two prior Presidential runs were complete disasters, far worse than Harris’ bid. So I’m not sure how your campaign did is a good metric for evaluating political skills. Each race is different, each race calls for different skills. Ed Rendell and Chris Dodd should be shot into the sun. Good advisors to Presidential candidates talk to him and nobody else.
LuciaMia
The only VP pick I remember is when Clinton chose Al Gore. It was around Fourth of July. So it felt like Biden was stretching it out. But really, as soon as he names her, the attack weasels will be in full, idiotic charge.
Hoodie
@Kent: I tend to agree. If deliberations were still going on, I think they would be talking about Harris, Demmings and Bottoms.
raven
@BruceFromOhio: She does criminal defense in the Bay area and it’s based on here experience in that arena. I personally like Harris.
Di
All in for Harris. I love watching her eviscerate fools. She is smart and fearless and knows how to get shit done. BTW, “In summary, whatever” would be an awesome rotating tagline.
Betty Cracker
@raven: It’s a nothingburger to me. It would be a big deal to a lot of other people in Florida (and possibly elsewhere). That’s why Rendell’s comment was so thunderingly dumb, especially contrasted with “Kamala rubs people the wrong way.”
dmsilev
My interpretation of Rendell’s and Dodd’s blatherings is that they have heard (rightly or wrongly) that Harris is the front-runner, and they don’t like it. One theory I’ve seen floated as to why do-not-like is that there are various other people they’d like to see running for President in 4 years, so they don’t want to see a strong VP who would immediately have the lead in replacing Biden if he decides one-and-done.
Sexism and racism are, of course, strong go-to theories as well. Good move for Biden to commit early on to a woman as a running mate, since it takes at least some fraction of the sexism off the table (not all of it by any means, but at least you’re not going to get “well if we torpedo her, $MAN will get the job”).
Edit: Committing to picking a woman means that we didn’t have to live through a 3 month long campaign by the Wilmerite dead-enders to get him the job. Give thanks for that.
Major Major Major Major
@Ken: My brother talked about how he thought it would be healing etc. to have a moderate Republican as VP. Fortunately he said it via instant message so he couldn’t see my face…
zhena gogolia
@Tom Q:
I agree with this analysis.
zhena gogolia
@Kent:
I would be happy with Harris or Demings. The other options are less attractive.
piratedan
@raven: Harris has made some enemies with how she’s handled things in the past. A while back I worked for a group of California Hospitals that were under the jurisdiction of the Catholic Church. There were unions involved and multiple suitors in play for the facilities. When the contract for sale came up, Harris essentially put a hold on the sale and demanded that the buyer commit to 1) negotiating in good faith with the unions (some bidders had busted unions in the past) and also bring the hospitals up to spec with state building regs.
leading bidder noting the cost in #1) having been clued in to how they dealt with unions 2) wanting to make money but not invest money in the community backed out and the sale was then shunted onto buyer #2.
for some reason, her call on that, managed to piss off the communities, the unions (delaying their financial security and noting that not every union is a good proponent for their members) and the prospective buyer who took their pain to the media…
some people took it as her grandstanding and getting in the way of business getting done. As in any elected official, there are gonna be people who carry their own torches…
James E Powell
I like the Biden/Harris ticket more than all the others that have been proposed. I’m of the school that people don’t vote for the VP.
While there are concerns that Biden’s age means his VP has to be his successor, I’m sure if she’s not that some other worthy Democrat will emerge by 2023.
Adam L Silverman
@Roger Moore: I will alert the American Political Science Association so they may update your preferences!//
Raoul
I saw that fucking Ed Rendell bullshit and gave my credit card a month-end workout supporting candidates for the Minnesota state senate. I figured the national old boy club will do whatever crap they do.
I will help build the next generation of Democrats where they grow, at the local, district level.
Keep moving. Keep organizing. Screw the old, frightened fossils like Ed n Steny. They’ll be out of the way soon enough.
zhena gogolia
@Quaker in a Basement:
Sorry, I forgot not to comment until I read all the other comments.
Major Major Major Major
@BruceFromOhio: @raven: For whatever it’s worth, the two lawyers I know who worked under her in SF and later in CA say she was not super great at running the department(s).
I agree with the sentiment expressed in this thread that Rice et al. are the sorts of names you’d mention only if you’d already made up your mind.
peej01
Harris was my second choice during the primaries (Warren being number one), so she’s my pick.
raven
@piratedan: I think this has more to do with her role as DA and AG but I really don’t know.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
the danger of picking Rice is that David Broder and Tim Russert will claw their way out of their graves to celebrate her trump-supporting son and bipartisan family, and this will launch the invasion of the zombie pundits and we’ll all get bitten and start solemnly intoning things like “To be sure, not all trump voter are racists…” and “we, on the coasts, must acknowledge that Donald trump speaks to the values and concerns of the Heartland…”
randy khan
It’s going to be Tim Kaine’s wife.
Anyway, while I hope it’s Harris, because I like her and would like her to be on a path towards being President. Also, the whole sexist (and that’s what it is) thing about her being too ambitious just grates on me so much that I’d like to rub some people’s noses in it if Biden picks her. I should be more high-minded, I know, but there it is. (Besides, I know that a lot of people here would be way ahead of me in line to do said nose-rubbing.)
Kent
@Hoodie: I have nothing against Bass. I just don’t really know enough about her. But I did pull up what YouTube videos I could find of her and she comes across as sort of a bland managerial type. She doesn’t have that searing and compelling style that both Demings and Harris have. She doesn’t command the stage like they do. If you are going to pick an unknown black congresswoman who would you rather have debating Pence:
This Val Demings on impeachment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANtMp7DsxTQ
Or this Karen Rice on impeachment: https://youtu.be/ji-MtPxX5xs
James E Powell
@Adam L Silverman:
I remember that split model from a political science class in college (late 70s). Back then it was the explanation for liberal hawks.
I’m wondering if there is a new model in response to the Republican transition to a parliamentary party.
raven
@Betty Cracker: Yea I wasn’t thinking of you.
tokyokie
I’ve sort of been rooting for Tammy Duckworth to get the nod, because of all the possible VP choices, she’s the one who would most get under Needy Amin’s skin. She’s everything he isn’t: smart, capable, and courageous, as well as an Asian-American woman. I don’t see any way he can attack her without coming off as the small-minded cowardly son of extraordinary privilege that he is. And although every American should already be aware of that, the fact that he’s polling above 27% indicates that many aren’t.
UncleEbeneezer
@Major Major Major Major: Meh. Pretty much EVERY candidate struggled to make inroads in a ridiculously crowded field led by 1.) a VP from a beloved Administration and 2.) a guy who started running in 2015 (Bernie). Buttigieg/Klobuchar could appeal to moderate/conservative Dems, but really what were other candidates supposed to do with Bernie’s voters refusing to budge from him. Even Warren struggled to gain much ground. If Harris ran a bad campaign than I’d say that pretty much every candidate not-named Biden or Bernie also ran bad campaigns. The combination of voters just wanting a November win at any cost (Biden voters) and ones who would only support Bernie really left very little on the table for anyone who didn’t want to be the conservative alternative. Warren and Castro pushed some of the most progressive policies out there and got very little reward for doing so. I’m just not sure what exactly Harris could have done besides trying to steal the Buttigieg/Klobuchar lane (which really wouldn’t fit her values).
sdhays
All three of these ladies sound fantastic, but this:
is actually one of the top reasons to support Kamala. Joe Biden is really, really old, and he’ll be 100 years older by 2024 because the Presidency ages you if you give any kind of shit about the job you’re doing. Having someone champing at the bit to pick up the torch for the Democrats in 2024 or 2028 should be part of the criteria for a candidate who has already mused about not running for a second term.
J R in WV
@WaterGirl:
Sometimes I get an elderly looking edit box with neither Visual nor Text tab options. It seems to be a text only editor, and I know how HTML works, so I just use it. Happens both for entering a new comment or for editing so far as I recall… what day is it again? Elephanty right?
Maybe 1 in 10 times? or some frequency along that line.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Hoodie: I am a zealot against the Cult of the Presidency, and I’m expanding my war to the Cult of the Vice-Presidency.
coin operated
I’d love it if Harris was our VP…but secretly hoping she ends up heading DOJ. That organization needs to be fumigated, repeatedly, until every one of the old white misogynist cockroaches are gone.
Edit for grammar…
Adam L Silverman
@BruceFromOhio: My understanding from reading and hearing what the defense lawyers and progressive lawyers (some overlap there) from California are saying, what they are angry about or don’t like is that she was a factory standard prosecutor when she was both a DA and the California AG. So she was one part politician and one part tough on crime prosecutor. The latter was the standard for DAs and AGs until just a few years ago. We’re now seeing a major and long overdue shift with the election of progressive DAs in Philadelphia and other major cities. But at the time she was a DA and AG, she was squarely within the norms and bounds. And whatever she did that was innovative and made improvements are immediately discounted by her detractors.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
I was in visual and everything was double spaced. Changed to text and thought I had fixed the problem. When I published, the last line of the list was spaced differently in my computer, but not on my phone.
James E Powell
@Kent:
Thank you for the links. I don’t say this to argue with you, but I liked them both about the same.
That was also a weird reminder that the impeachment drama was only six months ago, though it feels much longer.
raven
@Adam L Silverman: That may be my friend.
Major Major Major Major
@UncleEbeneezer:
I’m not talking about the electoral ineffectiveness, I’m talking about the campaign machinery itself. I’m not interested in slamming Harris, so I won’t get into it, but if you’re curious, here is an article on it.
Adam L Silverman
@James E Powell: Read Ornstein and Mann’s It’s Even Worse Than It Looks.
Mike in NC
Looking forward to the VP announcement early next week. Do it while Fat Bastard is chasing a golf ball so he can’t tweet some instant bullshit.
Meanwhile I’ve been out and want to read the Vanity Fair article on how Kushner and the other rocket scientists in the West Wing blew off the initial response to the pandemic, i.e. stupidly thought it would only affect places run by Democrats.
James E Powell
@Adam L Silverman:
That is likely to remain the standard for most of the nation, huge blue cities being the exceptions.
Lacuna Synechdoche
@Pigdog:
You’d rather spend the next three-plus months arguing over whether Duckworth is a natural-born US citizen? She was born in Bangkok, Thailand. And yes, she’s a natural citizen, but the GOP will spend the next 4-8 years arguing that she’s not anyway.
Or would you rather watch the GOP using Russian bots and trolls to attack Harris from the left as “cop and prosecutor”? Or attacking Bass on Cuba, as mentioned by Betty at top? Or listen to Trump call Warren Pocohantas over and over and over again?
My point is: Whoever Biden nominates for VP, Republicans will have an attack line ready. If they don’t, they’ll make one up. So the cons here really don’t matter.
Adam L Silverman
@raven: It is both a legit critique and ignore reality, which is that when she was a DA and an AG none of these progressive DAs and AGs that are finally starting to get elected would’ve made it out of their primaries. Times change, in this case for the better. But being mad at her for not being something that didn’t exist yet is kind of silly.
sdhays
@dmsilev: Oh, yes, absolutely. Committing to a woman early was a masterstroke. It ended the debate over whether or not he would pick a woman. It seems like a small thing, but it’s been pretty nice not having that argument/speculation for the past few months.
Adam L Silverman
@James E Powell: Pretty much. Eventually it’ll expand to more suburban areas. Rural areas will likely never make the change.
Chyron HR
@Major Major Major Major:
As opposed to Biden’s two previous Presidential campaigns, one presumes.
Major Major Major Major
@Chyron HR: Since Biden has done things like “be a senator for decades” and “be Vice President”, competently by all accounts, I don’t put as much weight on his campaign organization.
Regardless, most of his issues were Joe Biden-related, not management-related, iirc.
ETA: Biden’s 2020 campaign actually endeared me to him. He just ignored the Internet and let everybody else fight over the Extremely Online 30% of the primary electorate, then won because he could read polls.
lee
@rp: I am exactly the same. It is 100% disqualifying. If it makes me a horrible person, I’m ok with that
raven
@Adam L Silverman: you have mail
JAFD
I was citizen of Philadelphia during Rendell’s term as mayor, of Pennsylvania during his years as governor, and IMVAO think he did a highly competent job in both. (Of course, he was historically lucky to be in charge of a city when The Fifty Years of Suburbanization and DeIndustrialization were seen to have ended.)
What he’s done as pundit – being not possessed of TV – I care not of
Certainly of the three, I’d pick Sen Harris
James E Powell
@Major Major Major Major:
I’m not slamming you, but seriously, Politico?
You can read articles just like this about every campaign that moved from high hopes to utter ruin. Same articles were written about Howard Dean in 2004 or Hillary Clinton in 2008.
It’s like the articles written about professional sports teams GMs, managers, and coaches when they lose.
Uncle Cosmo
Doddering Chris is (IIUC) butthurt cuz Kamala prosecuted some of his Best Budz. No idea what Whinedell’s problem is but wouldn’t be surprised if it was similar.
I hope Uncle Joe finds them ceremonial posts where they can do the least damage to the campaign. “Javelin catcher” is one option.
Major Major Major Major
@James E Powell: Yes, I consider Politico a valid source of political inside-baseball news. It’s what they do. Most of the utter bullshit artists moved to Axios.
None of the other main contenders–all but one of whom, of course, lost–got postmortem write-ups like that. Perhaps there is a fire under this smoke, and it’s not just reflexive Dem-bashing.
Kent
@UncleEbeneezer: To be fair, Bernie ran a ridiculously bad campaign as well. Based entirely on the notion that they could march to the nomination never gaining more than 30% support or widening their base.
Omnes Omnibus
I don’t really care who Biden picks. I have a preference, Harris, and I have a guess, also Harris. He, however, could pick a psychotic clown (but I repeat myself) and the pairing would be better than Trump/Pence. As a result, I am not going get too invested in this debate.
tokyokie
@Lacuna Synechdoche: I’d like to think that Rafael Cruz’s presidential run four years ago put an end to that debate, but then, the people who’d raise that point are not particularly intellectually consistent.
Uncle Cosmo
@Baud: I switch to Text mode when quoting something like a poem that abhors paragraph spacing with every < cr >, but FYWP always slips in an odd blank line just for spite. FYWP!
Major Major Major Major
@Kent: Bernie’s campaign was also atrocious, yes. Far worse, actually. At least Harris’s incompetent hires didn’t want to burn the Democratic Party to the ground.
Kent
Imagine how fucked up the search recommendations would be if Biden hadn’t pre-emptively declared he was going to pick a woman. We’d be hearing all sorts of bland white young Congressmen floated as the way to win back the white working class. All those guys who couldn’t vote for Pelosi as speaker. Those are the types that would give Chris Dodd and his media enablers a woodie.
J R in WV
@Major Major Major Major:
Did you ask him to name 2 “moderate
Russian stooges,er, uh, Republicans” he thought would be acceptable to most Democratic voters?‘Cause those don’t exist anymore.
My RWNJ brother and I do not mention politics in emails or on the phone. He’s in TX and I am not! He did send me a couple of RWNJ cartoons after I sent him some photos with NO political content.
But I’ll still call him on his birthday, which is one of 4 birthdays I actually recall. His, mine, Wife’s and friend who has a birthday next to Wife’s birthday. Happy Birthday is pretty non political, thankfully !!!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kent: Remember Seth Moulton?
Kent
Hell, they’ll probably try to swift boat her and question whether she was a competent chopper pilot in the first place to get shot down like that. Drum up various old white chopper experts to talk about what she did wrong. They will go to any end to fling feces. It’s what they do. And what they will do no matter who he picks.
patrick II
@Roger Moore:
That’s mostly true, except there is a higher than normal chance that the VP in 2020 might be the Presidential nominee in 2024. I don’t want someone who isn’t a good politician as the number. Surely somewhere there is a competent democrat who can do both manage and run.
Martin
@piratedan: How she handled the St Joe/Hoag merger really impressed me. My only real focus was on how they’d sort out abortion services since Hoag provided them and St Joe didn’t. I thought her requirement was pretty solid – St Joe can’t tell doctors what they do within their office – so even existing St Joe doctors could perform abortions within their office areas – that was indefinite. For a period of I think 20 years they would have to transfer any patient, on their dime, to an abortion provider. No telling them to go across town, they need to move them. And Hoag needed to continue to provide their old services for a period of 10 or 15 years. There were a bunch of other bits and bobs.
But I thought it was pretty good overall. 90% of abortions in the US could be chemical abortions right now, done in a drs office with no surgical facility needed (this is the starting point for the new abortion services mandate at CA universities), and given that ⅓ of the abortion providers in the nation are in CA, losing Hoag as one isn’t really an impediment to the public.
But that was my first real introduction to her. And I thought she spoke on that issue with passion and realism.
Kent
Yep. Those are EXACTLY the type of “white working class war heroes” from the rust belt that dinosaurs like Rendell and Dodd would be pushing forward as the “safe choice” had Biden not taken that option off the table by announcing he was going to pick a woman.
They would be searching for the Dem version of Tom Cotton.
Patricia Kayden
Mallard Filmore
This thread is already stale, so maybe nobody will read this.
Trump has done so much damage to the image of the USA that Rice will be severely constrained on her range of actions.
We are not who we once were.
Major Major Major Major
@J R in WV: he named Romney, I changed the subject lol
rmirth
I found Rice very uncharismatic as Obama’s UN ambassador (and sec of state? can’t remember). Meh about her public demeanor and speaking style
Quaker in a Basement
@zhena gogolia: Me too, also.
Jeffro
Given the magnitude of the rescue effort Biden/_____ are about to undertake starting this January, I don’t care about appearances, history, ambition, or ability to run and win in 2024.
I care about:
That’s it. Biden certainly has latitude to ignore electoral considerations (which almost never impact the ticket much anyway) given how large of a lead (and a growing lead at that) he has over trumpov. And he can (and probably will) ignore all the “BUT IF YOU PICK _____ REPUBLICANS WILL BE ALL OVER HER ABOUT _____” nonsense, because it’s all just that – nonsense.
Clearly, given #1 and #2, his best pick is Warren, probably followed closely by Rice. If he was all that thrilled with Harris, we wouldn’t be seeing this constant stream of Bass stuff. Duckworth would be fine as well.
I will be thrilled no matter who he picks, crawl over broken glass, etc etc.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kent: A Harvard grad from Salem, MA, is a working class war hero from the rust belt?
Quaker in a Basement
@Major Major Major Major: Love your added comment!
J R in WV
@Mike in NC:
It isn’t just stupid, it’s a hoped for genocide against Americans of color and Democratic voters, both. As such, Kushner and everyone else on the committee is guilty of attempted genocide, and should be shipped off the The Hague on January 21, or a date near that point in time.
Jeffro
@Adam L Silverman:
@James E Powell: seconded on the book recommendation
gwangung
@Major Major Major Major: Personally, I thought any candidate that started out where Bernie did should have been able to garner the nomination with ease. He was his own worst enemy (and his second worst were his rabid fans).
Omnes Omnibus
@Jeffro: Your clearly is pretty muddy.
WaterGirl
@Adam L Silverman: Or, no pants = you definitely get tech support!
Jeffro
Seconded here. The VP doesn’t need to campaign – heck, Joe hasn’t! – but she will need to help with the national rescue effort and have Joe’s back the whole way. That requires trust, as you’ve noted.
J R in WV
@Adam L Silverman:
My rural county had a prosecutor who experienced serious brain injury in a auto accident. He got elected because his family has a big history of electoral success in the county.
Whenever he tried a case, in my experience as juror, he had other lawyers, prosecutors in other counties, to help out and actually try the case. He did present the cases to the Grand Jury I served on, though. I think he mostly does real estate work now…. which is a good thing.
Major Major Major Major
@gwangung: one of his awful hires, I forget which, convinced him that he could win with 30% of the vote against a split field, so he should just focus on cultivating his base.
100% predictably, he instead lost with 30% of the vote.
Kent
Sorry, I had him mixed up with the other younger white centrist Congressman running for president, Tim Ryan, who is indeed from rustbelt epicenter Youngstown Ohio.
My point is that those are all the names we’d be hearing about from folks like Ed Rendell if Biden hadn’t nipped that in the bud.
Falling Diphthong
@Quaker in a Basement:
This. There is some evidence that picking a veep from a small state expected to be very close might gain you a couple of points in that state. And that’s it.
As confident as I am that whoever Biden picks will be met with some “Oh DEAR! This gives me such grave doubts! Perhaps Trump-Pence would be better after all!” those people are not adding up to a point in any state. The veep pick is analyzed to death because it is finally a new election story. Assuming Biden announces someone early next week, within 48 hours Trump will have topped “Suburban Housewives beware the Invisible Sex Demons!!!!!” to drag the cameras back to himself. And all the “But what about Cuba/Benghazi/prosecutor/cop/lactaid/veteran” will fade under the onslaught of new crazy.
Eljai
I think we’ll see an avalanche of misogyny once Biden names his VP pick. It’s not like members of the media ever learned their lesson or admitted their mistakes from 2016. I’m gonna back the nominee no matter who it is and I vow to go full raving, jack russell terrier on any politician or member of the media who tries to regurgitate the bullshit they threw at Hillary.
WaterGirl
@UncleEbeneezer: You can’t possibly think that Pete Buttigieg ran a bad campaign, can you? Do you know how far the mayor of South Bend got in the process???
Quaker in a Basement
@Kent: I like ’em both for different reasons. Bass is very rational and matter-of-fact. Demings has a compelling style and a strong personal story.
Either one would be OK by me.
J R in WV
@Major Major Major Major:
OK, that’s funny. My bro could never get that close, he of the White Horse Prophecy. Pretty good. Hysterical, really!
Jinchi
Biden has repeatedly and publicly rejected this, but this concern was one of my biggest objections to his presidential run. A VP takes on all the baggage of the President and yet does not inherently gain the advantage of the incumbent.
It would increase the risk that he not only will be a one-term president, but that the Democrats will lose it again in four years. We had plenty of good candidates this year. If he didn’t think he could last a full two terms, he shouldn’t have run.
My guess is he will be very tempted to run again for a second term, no matter what he’s said to aides and friends behind closed doors.
WaterGirl
@J R in WV: when that happens, you click the link that’s just above the comment box. The one that manually clears cache and gets you both tabs again.
Just make sure that you copy anything you have already typed in the comment box, because you will lose that when you click the link. But if you copy if first, you get both tabs and you haven’t lost your work.
In a perfect world, you would never need to click that link, but cache is complicated and it’s nearly impossible to get the perfect balance.
Uncle Cosmo
From the evidence of the current campaign, roughly 80% of Jackals – representing about 0.001% of the electorate. That’s “many” if you count on your fingers (NB impersonal “you” – you’re all more intelligent than that) but not so “many” if you’re running for President. “Many” more preferred Biden.
Again, a bit of furious agitation in a very minor tributary of a very large stream. IMO Joe made a mistake limiting his VP pick to one gender months before he had to – you want to keep the enemy guessing until the last possible moment – but I’ll trust the campaign did its due diligence to establish that it was a constructive move, or at least not damaging.
(Slightly o/t, but it is a constant source of amazement and dismay that the great majority of yinz seem to be blissfully unaware how utterly atypical the Jackaltariat is of the US electorate, or even the Democratic electorate. And how poorly yinz understand those others – every one of whom has the same number of votes as every one of you, i.e., one.)
Quaker in a Basement
@Falling Diphthong: LOL! Lactaid? I missed a story somewhere.
Major Major Major Major
@J R in WV: my brother’s a Dem, but I think he resents having only one sane choice. It’s not that uncommon tbh
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: yeah he won Iowa! Pete had a pretty good campaign org. His early bet on “I will seriously talk to anybody on camera” paid off.
Kent
Ask him who’s fault that is.
Jinchi
No that was smart on Biden’s part. Otherwise we’d have people like Dodd arguing that the safe bet was not to rock the boat, by picking a controversial gender.
He completely normalized the idea. Biden will have a woman VP. That’s no longer news, now he can focus on the skills he wants in a partner. The press doesn’t even remark on its historic context anymore.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Yeah, there is a weird bug where certain devices with a certain browser displays an extra space before the last item. That’s a browser issue that we have no control over.
1
2
3
4
5
vs.
1
2
3
4
5
If you see both of those sets of numbers the same way, you win the “yes, you are using the browser that does the weird thing” award. If – in the first set – the spacing between 4 and 5 is the same as the spacing between the other numbers, you do not have that browser.
Major Major Major Major
@Kent: he’s well aware, he’s not stupid.
Omnes Omnibus
@Uncle Cosmo: But you have your finger on the pulse of the electorate? You aren’t just the cranky old ass you seem to be on the Internet. Christ, even when I agree with you, you make me wish I didn’t.
WaterGirl
@sdhays: It was masterful, it swept all the guys right off the table, including and especially Bernie.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The BIG silver lining of the pandemic is it shut down all those God damn road side diners the press likes to use to write putrid article on voter sentiments.
SiubhanDuinne
@Quaker in a Basement:
Could you please provide more details? I just did an admittedly quick scan of Bass’s Wikipedia bio and saw nothing to suggest she was in law enforcement.
I did notice that her daughter and son-in-law were killed in a car accident a few years ago. She and Joe share the unspeakable loss that comes from losing a child, and I imagine that would be an important factor for him (not a box to check, I don’t mean that, but a point of emotional connection).
WaterGirl
@Uncle Cosmo: Sounds like you use the magic browser that inserts the extra line before the last line. Lucky you.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@WaterGirl: HA! and it forced Bernie to agree that it should go to a woman. Brilliant maneuvering.
Jinchi
@Major Major Major Major: Sounds like your friend would like to live in a universe where the nation doesn’t melt down if the Republican wins.
Fair Economist
We need a VP who can run the country if Biden needs to step down, run to replace him in 2024 if he wants to step down, and run to succeed him in 2028 if he serves out. Rice would be good to run the country, but she has no electoral experience and is a huge risk for the top of the ticket in the future. Bass is good, but Harris has more administrative experience so she’s better to take over, more electoral experience so she’s better to run in either year, plus will be under 70 in future elections.
You *know* Dodd and Rendell aren’t pushing Bass because they want a leftier candidate in control of the country. For that matter, I doubt she’d be any less ambitious given the opportunity – she is a politician. They’re pushing her because she has less experience and is older than Harris, and they think they’re more able to beat her for the nomination in 24 or 28.
Like Betty, I’ll enthusiastically support Biden no matter who he picks, but Harris is the strongest choice on the list.
schrodingers_cat
I like Kamala Harris. I think the VP nominee should be a black woman. They are the soul of the Democratic party.
Jeffro
@Omnes Omnibus: Um okay. I think I put out my two most important criteria and noted who is closest to meeting those criteria, according to what I know about the four folks in the running. What else would make things clearer?
Buckeye
Alex Sammon of American Prospect compares her to Barr, so I guess the regurgitation of ‘she’s a cop and a terrible AG’ continues.
As California’s Attorney General, Kamala Harris repeatedly subverted a Supreme Court ruling that required the state to cut its prison overcrowding rate to 137.5%, courting a constitutional crisis that nearly saw her held in contempt. Bill Barr style move.
https://twitter.com/alex_sammon/status/1289251405266444288
zhena gogolia
@Kent:
Same here. Demings and Harris are both orators. We need orators.
japa21
@WaterGirl: What about seeing a difference between 3 and 4.
zhena gogolia
@Jinchi:
Yes.
zhena gogolia
@SiubhanDuinne:
Quaker has clarified that she mixed up Bass with Demings.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jeffro: When you say clearly, it reads as though you are saying that this should be clear to everyone and I don’t think that it is.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Buckeye: The Department of Corrections is not part of the California Attorney General’s remit. Alex might want to train his fire on Chairman Jerry.
WaterGirl
@japa21: For real? I have not heard of that.
Space between 3 and 4? How about 4 and 5?
SiubhanDuinne
@zhena gogolia:
Right, saw that long after my edit window closed. Didn’t comment further as thread seemed pretty dead, but maybe I should have acknowledged the correction — which I now do.
Uncle Cosmo
He has made no such thing clear at all. This strikes me as no more than a severe case of wishing-makes-it-so on your part.
There is no reason, health permitting, that Joe Biden could not serve two terms as the modestly-progressive analogue to Reagan: Setting the tone and the broad outline of a program, but relying on a legion of superbly sharp staffers (and former fellow candidates like Warren) to fill in the details.
A center-left Reagan may be just what the USA needs right now – & it may well need the avuncular Uncle Joe at its head for the full two terms. I am willing to bet good $$$ that the Biden of Christmas 2026 would be a damsite more coherent and functional than St Ronaldus at the equivalent time.
Quaker in a Basement
@SiubhanDuinne: My fault. See comments above. Mixed up the bios of two different candidates. Sorry.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: seconded. Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ.
jefft452
@Tom Q:
“Tulsi Gabbard … and Russian bots”
Redundancy
Uncle Cosmo
And what, pray tell, was the “actuarial risk” of JFK dying in his first term?
FTR, the SSA actuarial tables give male life expectancy at age 77 of 9.94 years; at age 81, 7.76 years.
POTUS Joe will doubtless delegate the great bulk of his work to trusted staffers, à la Reagan. And he’ll get the best medical care in the known multiverse…
Tl;dr version: Sheesh.
Uncle Cosmo
@WaterGirl: The bowser, I meant bruiser, I meant … known to my West By God Virginia cousins as “Farfawks.” (These are the same good folk who think “parts” is the name of the MLB team that plays in Pittsburgh: Y’see that thar Parts game yestiddy? :^D)
pattonbt
I don’t believe vp means squat. The election is all about trump. Whoever Biden picks will be the devil incarnate and the media will, of course, happily engage in the “some say….” BS, so fuck them all and let Biden choose who he likes.
All the vp candidates are great, accomplished and have some “political calculation” flaws (and strengths). I like abrams personally, but whatever.
Just please, no senators. I know Harris gets replaced safely, but let’s leave the heavy hitters we have there there. Biden will neither in nor lose from his choice of running mate.
Jeffro
@Omnes Omnibus: Fair enough. I’ll work on it.
Dennis
Maybe YOU won’t hold her Trump-supporting son against Rice, but those campaign ads write themselves and would be devastating.
marv
@Adam L Silverman:
Well, that’s the best damn summation I’ve seen yet. And will just add, because I haven’t seen it mentioned yet, how wonderful it has been since Biden announced it would be a woman that all the male insecurities have not been a factor. i personally thought it was semi-revolutionary when first Abrams (as I recall) and then Warren and Harris said yeah, I would like to be the vice-presidential nominee. The absence of male ego and competition has just been so refreshing to me.
jc
I live in CA, and I like Harris. But I think Rice is a preferable choice. Just my personal preference. No one is going to make sleazy innuendo comments about her. She seems mature and adult, not that Harris doesn’t, but I can see Rice as president. Harris would be an excellent AG.
Mai naem mobile
I like Harris or Rice. I think Harris would attract Asian support which I know is not a big deal numbers wise but I think would bring in a few extra votes for down ballot races. I actually think it’s a pity you can’t have a second white guy on the ticket this time around because Washington Gov. Jay Inslee would be the right guy because he’s probably been the best governor(not Cuomo) on the COVID 19 issue and he’s good on climate change. He’s also from a solid blue state. I hope Biden picks him for something important in his cabinet. Maybe work with Ron Klain on COVID for a little while and then become some kind of Climate Change Czar??
BTW I am not sure why Val Demings fell off the list. She was on the Impeachment prosecutors so she knows the Russia stuff.
Geo Wilcox
Bass won’t get it because she is a Scientology supporter. Gave a big speech praising the “church”. With all the scandal associated with that cult, any supporter of it in any way is just not viable.
arielibra
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan):
It would help us pick up Florida.