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You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Cash for Votes

Cash for Votes

by Betty Cracker|  August 9, 202010:29 am| 80 Comments

This post is in: Domestic Politics, Open Threads, Politics, Trump Crime Cartel

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House Democrats have made the decision to ride out the Trump crime spree until November. It’s an understandable decision. They control only one half of one chamber.

The GOP majority on the SCOTUS, GOP-controlled Senate, Trump-controlled DOJ, etc., have signaled they’ll accept and/or abet any crimes Trump and his pack of rapacious grift-mavens commit. Under the circumstances, there’s no point in House Democrats trying to rein in Trump’s lawless behavior.

Trump is a deeply stupid man with untreated personality disorders that compel him to do many self-destructive things. But like most bullies, he has a crude instinct for testing boundaries, and he senses there are none now. Here’s the latest consequence of that:

President Trump pledged on Saturday to pursue a permanent cut to the payroll taxes that fund Social Security and Medicare if he wins reelection in November, a hard-to-accomplish political gambit that some experts see as a major headache for the future of the country’s entitlement programs.

Trump unexpectedly promised the policy action as he signed a directive that aims to help cash-starved Americans amid the coronavirus pandemic. The order allows workers to postpone their payroll tax payments into next year but doesn’t absolve their bills outright — though the president said he would seek to waive what people owe if he prevails on Election Day.

“If I’m victorious on November 3rd, I plan to forgive these taxes and make permanent cuts to the payroll tax,” Trump said at a news conference in Bedminster, N.J. “I’m going to make them all permanent.”

How is that not straight-up bribery? Basically, he’s saying, “Here’s a temporary loan, which will accrue for the remainder of my term until a balloon payment comes due. But if you vote for me, you’ll get to keep the money without paying it back.”

In addition to gutting the safety net, the bribe doesn’t even address the needs of the tens of millions who are out of work — no payroll check, no payroll tax break. But it’s not intended to. It’s just a cash-for-votes scheme. And there’s no one who’ll stop him.

To be clear, I’m not arguing that House Dems should hold impeachment hearings or whatever to try to stop Trump’s nutty and criminal schemes — the ones we know about and the ones he’ll hatch between now and November. That would almost certainly backfire.

The truth is the Beltway press controls the narrative. What did it take for them to finally start treating Trump like the malevolent clown he has always been? Only a spectacularly failed response to a pandemic that has so far left 160K dead, 5 million infected and an economy in shambles.

We can’t afford to introduce a new story line now. No matter what, apparently.

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Reader Interactions

80Comments

  1. 1.

    The Thin Black Duke

    August 9, 2020 at 10:32 am

    This doesn’t seem like a winning political strategy somehow.

  2. 2.

    japa21

    August 9, 2020 at 10:33 am

    Unfortunately, most coverage is not discussing this aspect, nor the probable illegality, nor that there was really only one EO in the bunch.

     

    And a couple writers for the AP ran a story about all the potential problems with mail-in voting.

     

    The media is doing Trump’s job for him.

     

    ETA: It is interesting that Trump acknowledged that technically, this tax cut is merely a suspension and will need to be paid back.  He is talking like he has the power to make the tax cuts permanent, which he doesn’t.  Otherwise he could have done it now. A good media would point out he is, in effect, killing SS.  Current recipients receive their benefits from the people who are paying into the system now.

  3. 3.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 9, 2020 at 10:34 am

    My nym. Again and again.

    Wipe them out. All of them.

  4. 4.

    japa21

    August 9, 2020 at 10:38 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: Agreeing more and more with you.

  5. 5.

    navigator

    August 9, 2020 at 10:38 am

    I have come to the realization that today’s media environment allows once-difficult political maneuvers to be taken without long-term consequence. Revoke this on day 1 with a new EO, and move on to the necessary blizzard of new legislation that will bury it inside a month’s hourly “news” chit chat.

  6. 6.

    The Thin Black Duke

    August 9, 2020 at 10:38 am

    @japa21: I dunno. In the news I’ve been seeing, the headlines are “Trump threatens to kill Social Security and Medicare”. I think “the third rail” of politics is still hot.

  7. 7.

    Luciamia

    August 9, 2020 at 10:40 am

    Bribery or blackmail? Can’t decide which.

  8. 8.

    J R in WV

    August 9, 2020 at 10:41 am

     

    What is really happening here is Trump is killing Social Security AND Medicare right in front of everyone, and no one is willing to say so.

    Trump wants to zero out the funding for the two most popular programs undertaken by the Federal Government… why? To destroy those programs in the middle of the confusion caused by the Trump Plague.

    This is what this story is all about:

    • Right Wing nut job Republicans ending Social Security and Medicare in the middle of both a plague AND an economic depression.

    I don’t know who talked Trump into this, but it looks to me like Trump committing electoral suicide in public.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    August 9, 2020 at 10:41 am

    Yutsano last night said the tax suspension wasn’t implementable.  Just smoke and mirrors.

  10. 10.

    J R in WV

    August 9, 2020 at 10:42 am

    @Luciamia:

    Bribery or blackmail? Can’t decide which.

    Why not BOTH~!!~

  11. 11.

    MattF

    August 9, 2020 at 10:44 am

    And, the suggestion that Microsoft should ‘share’ profits from the possible TikTok deal. That bit of casually corrupt dealing was mostly ignored, just the usual Donnie cut for services rendered.

  12. 12.

    Percysowner

    August 9, 2020 at 10:45 am

    @The Thin Black Duke:

     

    I dunno. In the news I’ve been seeing, the headlines are “Trump threatens to kill Social Security and Medicare”. I think “the third rail” of politics is still hot

    That’s what I’m seeing as well, the fact that this gambit will destroy Social Security and Medicare. The payback part of the scheme isn’t being talked about, but let’s face it, voting seniors care about not losing their benefits. I don’t think the people in the Villages and other retirement communities will be happy about even the slightest chance of losing a portion of their income AND their medical insurance. It’s the right way to attack Trump on this.

    Plus, if Trump can say the paycheck loans don’t have to be repaid, so can any other President, or the Congress can pass a law saying that. It’s an empty threat.

  13. 13.

    Another Scott

    August 9, 2020 at 10:45 am

    Donnie is a lying liar who lies.  He wants to break the government and the safety net.

    I was disturbed to see a story on Steve Bannon a couple of days ago, reminding us of his penchant for saying the quiet parts out loud.  E.g. https://www.gq.com/story/steve-bannon-shadow-president (from January 2017)

    Over the last ten days, it’s been easy to feel like shadow President Donald Trump and the actual President Steve Bannon are purposely trying to destroy this country, but common sense would indicate that such an idea would be ridiculous. After all, these are men who wanted the giant responsibility of running the nation. Surely, they couldn’t have set out to do evil, right, guys? Right? I said, right, guys? Oh no. The fact that no one is responding is a little unnerving. Well, if you are to believe these next two sources, it sure seems like Donald Trump and Steve Bannon are okay with letting the whole thing burn down. Those sources? Donald Trump and Steve Bannon.

    We’re well past the time of asking whether they’re really actively acting to destroy the country or not.  As several have asked, “How would they behave differently if they were?”

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  14. 14.

    Ramiah Ariya

    August 9, 2020 at 10:51 am

    In India govts are disallowed by law from promising policy initiatives such as new roads a couple of months before elections take place. It works well in theory, but then political parties directly bribe voters with cash, given the huge inequality.

  15. 15.

    Parfigliano

    August 9, 2020 at 10:53 am

    Seems to me if it is legal to cut the payroll tax by executive order then it is legal to raise same by executive order.  Say  next President makes it so rates stay same but rate kicks back in on incomes over $xxx thousand on earner only not employer.  Income includes capital gains, interest income, everything….

  16. 16.

    NotMax

    August 9, 2020 at 10:56 am

    Undoing/reversing the New Deal has been a goal for them for more than three-quarters of a century.

  17. 17.

    SFAW

    August 9, 2020 at 10:58 am

    I’m hoping that, if Dems take back the Senate, that there are endless investigations of their traitorous actions. Not “endless” in the Benghaziiiii!!!!!!! sense — I just think there’s enough there to keep non-stop investigations going for at least two years, and more like eight or ten.

    I think there would also need to be some rule changes for the hearings: if some Rethug committee member starts in with the usual bullshit (think Sexual Assault Aider-and-Abetter Gym Jordan doing his usual shoutiness, or Drunkard Matt Gaetz being Matt Gaetz), cut their mic, have them removed from the room/chamber, institute censure and removal proceedings, and start investigating THEM.

    Yes, I hate all those motherfuckers. Why do you ask?

  18. 18.

    oldgold

    August 9, 2020 at 10:59 am

    Tomorrow morning, they should reconvene the House. Play last night’s presser. Then, vote to impeach.

    In a just and sane world it should not take an hour.

    After lunch, walk it over to the Senate.

  19. 19.

    SFAW

    August 9, 2020 at 11:00 am

    @NotMax:

    Undoing/reversing the New Deal has been a goal for them for more than three-quarters of a century.

    This does not get stated enough. What do those mofos call it, “the Constitution in Exile” or something like that?

    ETA: I don’t know whether Social Security is technically considered part of the New Deal, but they want that gone as well.

  20. 20.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 9, 2020 at 11:00 am

    @Parfigliano: Capital gains should be taxed at a higher rate than income from employment.  And executive bonuses should be also.  It’s time to put the squeeze on the parasite overclass.  Long overdue, in fact.  Eisenhower era rates are needed.

  21. 21.

    TaMara (HFG)

    August 9, 2020 at 11:00 am

    I know we’ll be faced with any number of crises come January. But we need someone appointed to investigate and recommend charges to whichever entity is appropriate for the entire GOP crime cartel. Including Turtle.

    If the stars align, and we take back the Senate and the WH, I’ll be calling my reps daily to demand this.

  22. 22.

    NotMax

    August 9, 2020 at 11:00 am

    @NotMax

    Will add the thinking (such as it is) seems to signal “Let’s go all in on this. Dolt 45 has screwed the pooch so deeply this may be our last chance for a generation.”

  23. 23.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 9, 2020 at 11:01 am

    @NotMax: Exactly.  Never mind that the New Deal saved the worthless assess of the .01%.

  24. 24.

    SFAW

    August 9, 2020 at 11:02 am

    @TaMara (HFG):

    Truth and Retribution Commission. The only question (for me) is whether any of those Rethug mofos get tried for Treason.

  25. 25.

    JPL

    August 9, 2020 at 11:04 am

    First they came for the Post Office and I did nothing……………….

  26. 26.

    mesmer a la carte

    August 9, 2020 at 11:07 am

    An alternative reading of this EO is Tr*mp signaling to his financial backers that he will realize their long term goal of ending SS & Medicare as government functions and taking them private.

  27. 27.

    laura

    August 9, 2020 at 11:08 am

    As soon as the Biden Administration is sworn in I’d like to see investigations of each and every act of fuckery committed by trump and his minions, confiscatory tax rates to squeeze the idle capital out of the soft palms, a John Leeis voting rights act crammed down John Robert’s throat, evidence of chicanery that would force the. Within mayor of keg city to resign from the SC and the entirety of the trump family shunned and/or prosecuted. I want it all. Come at my earned benefits fuckers- just try.

  28. 28.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    August 9, 2020 at 11:17 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: Yes! Why should they pay lower taxes on unearned income that most people pay on income they earned by the sweat of their brow.

  29. 29.

    PPCLI

    August 9, 2020 at 11:19 am

    @The Thin Black Duke: Yes, the Democrats should be hammering this point:
    TRUMP WANTS TO END SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE BY BANKRUPTING THEM.

  30. 30.

    trnc

    August 9, 2020 at 11:20 am

    @J R in WV: I don’t know who talked Trump into this, but it looks to me like Trump committing electoral suicide in public.

    You would think, but don’t underestimate the power of crappy media that let’s people think this is easy money for them during hard times. Will NYT point out that not only will this put a huge hole in most peoples’ only retirement option, but that the current fund would likely be converted to a private fund with zero payout to the people who have already paid into it.

  31. 31.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 9, 2020 at 11:20 am

    @NotMax:

    Undoing/reversing the New Deal has been a goal for them for more than three-quarters of a century.

    Yup. FDR welcomed the hatred of the bankers and other moneyed classes, and they’ve hated him and the social safety net since then.

    Hell, the bastards amended the Constitution so there’d be no more Democratic “presidents-for-life.”

  32. 32.

    Ken

    August 9, 2020 at 11:21 am

    @SFAW: I just think there’s enough there to keep non-stop investigations going for at least two years

    Just do “four years ago on this date crimes A, B, C, … took place”, like the sites that were doing WWII day-by-day a few years ago.

    Use the Greek alphabet when you run out of English letters.

  33. 33.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 9, 2020 at 11:23 am

    @SFAW: Shit.  There’s enough criminality from this Soviet shitpile mobster conman bastard administration for a generation of investigations.

  34. 34.

    Bex

    August 9, 2020 at 11:30 am

    HIllary on MSNBC now.

  35. 35.

    WereBear

    August 9, 2020 at 11:30 am

    @mesmer a la carte:  My take.

  36. 36.

    Adam

    August 9, 2020 at 11:36 am

    This also doesn’t account for the fact that some companies may just decide not to comply with this. Eliminating payroll tax isn’t a flip of the switch thing, it takes time to implement this sort of change. And it puts them in the position of possibly having to take huge chunks out of their employees’s paychecks at the end of the year. Plus there’s also the fact that companies aren’t going to be excited about dropping everything to change this when it might not survive any legal challenges.

  37. 37.

    artem1s

    August 9, 2020 at 11:44 am

    President Trump pledged on Saturday to pursue a permanent cut to the payroll taxes that fund Social Security and Medicare if he wins reelection in November

    MAGAt COVIDiots might see this a good thing.  Even “small” business owners who hate having to contribute any revenue to their communities.  And the usual plantation owners who think they own their employees labor will grab any chance they can to further indenture workers.  But the reality is municipalities, state, county and federal government rely on the cash flow of income taxes to keep their communities running.  Any decent urban planner understands that you can’t wait for capital gains to be realized if you expect to be able to conduct business on a day to day basis. Eliminating payroll taxes for individuals and matching taxes for businesses will kill the markets deader than dead and plunge most of the country back into Depression levels of poverty and unemployment. There is a reason why income taxes were instituted during the Civil War (cash flow and production stimulus) and why their continuation allowed for a faster recovery and economic boom for the North, Midwest, and West after that war and every other war since. The south lagged behind economically for another 150 years because of their return to Jim Crow and concentration of assets/wealth to a few percent of the population.

    The GOP might collapse because of Trumpism but what we really need is a completely new way of thinking about Capitalism and who that economic system is supposed to benefit and allow to thrive.  That’s why Pelosi’s statement  that they “don’t give a damn” shows me that she does care.  And she understand that cash flow is the goal but the GOP will grab it as a means to the end of stealing everything that isn’t nailed down before they finally do lose political power.

  38. 38.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    August 9, 2020 at 11:53 am

    It’s blackmail, but who is Trump blackmailing? Remember the EO keeps the taxes for those making over 100K.  Since it there is no way the GOP base would go along having their health care and retirement programs ended the budget short fall with have to be taken out of the rich if this EO becomes policy. I think the real target is Trump’s rich donors who have stopped donating to his re-election campaign after the GOP convention debacle and the associated scandles.

  39. 39.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 9, 2020 at 11:54 am

    So. Much. Corruption. They should all be eaten.

    We require social distancing on park grounds: please keep at least 6 feet away from a dinosaur’s mouth— Jurassic Park Updates (@JurassicPark2go) August 6, 2020

  40. 40.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    August 9, 2020 at 11:57 am

    @Adam: Conversely, the core of the Trump’s base is retired so they will never see it.

  41. 41.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    August 9, 2020 at 12:01 pm

    Following up about my assertion this really about blacking mailing Trump’s donners

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/08/trump-antagonizes-sheldon-adelson-phone-call-392688

    When President Donald Trump connected by phone last week with Republican megadonor Sheldon Adelson — perhaps the only person in the party who can cut a nine-figure check to aid his reelection — the phone call unexpectedly turned contentious.
    The 87-year-old casino mogul had reached out to Trump to talk about the coronavirus relief bill and the economy. But then Trump brought the conversation around to the campaign and confronted Adelson about why he wasn’t doing more to bolster his reelection, according to three people with direct knowledge of the call. One of the people said it was apparent the president had no idea how much Adelson, who’s donated tens of millions of dollars to pro-Trump efforts over the years, had helped him. Adelson chose not to come back at Trump.

    And then this.

  42. 42.

    SFAW

    August 9, 2020 at 12:10 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

     Shit.  There’s enough criminality from this Soviet shitpile mobster conman bastard administration for a generation of investigations.

    Oh, I know. I did the two-year thing because, the electorate being what it is, it would not surprise me if there were only two years of Dem Senate control.

  43. 43.

    M31

    August 9, 2020 at 12:14 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Following up about my assertion this really about blacking mailing Trump’s donners

     

    lol let’s hope Trumps Donners can have a party :-)

  44. 44.

    SFAW

    August 9, 2020 at 12:14 pm

    @artem1s:

    Social Security was (I think) instituted as a response to the poverty and suffering caused by the Depression. It’s unsurprising, and perhaps ironic, that killing Social Security will plunges millions of Trumpistas into poverty.

  45. 45.

    SFAW

    August 9, 2020 at 12:15 pm

    @M31:

    lol let’s hope Trumps Donners can have a party :-)

    NotMax will be pissed that you beat him to it.

  46. 46.

    way2blue

    August 9, 2020 at 12:20 pm

    I disagree with this mindset »    “Under the circumstances, there’s no point in House Democrats trying to rein in Trump’s lawless behavior.”

    Democrats within the House & elsewhere need to use whatever tools they have to clearly explain the Trump administration’s malfeasance and both its intended & unintended consequences.  As no one else will.  The public needs to hear the voices of those who oppose the desecration of our nation.  Regardless of whether it succeeds in driving him out of office ahead of time.  Perhaps it will fuel a landslide for Biden and other Democrats running for state & federal office.

  47. 47.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    August 9, 2020 at 12:22 pm

    @M31: It was a mistake, but ya’ know, cannibals eating their own really sums up the current GOP.

  48. 48.

    M31

    August 9, 2020 at 12:23 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: accurate typos are the best typos

  49. 49.

    Kay

    August 9, 2020 at 12:30 pm

    While Trump has collapsed in the polls in Pennsylvania and nationally following his mishandling of the coronavirus pandemic, the race is likely to tighten in its final weeks. In a pivotal state Trump won by less than 1% of the vote in 2016 — partly because of voters in Lackawanna County and bordering Luzerne County — even small shifts in his favor in places like Carbondale could have outsized importance. And interviews with 20 residents and political operatives in the northeast suggest that places like Carbondale are trending even more pro-Trump than four years ago.

    I wanted to talk about this because I think it’s real and we have to grapple with it in this election. I say this because I just spent a week in one of these towns in PA and they are MUCH more rabidly Trump supporting than my own (small) Ohio city, which is Republican.
    We were only there because of the covid, funnily enough. My daughter would not meet me in Ohio or Michigan because she’s a health care worker in NY and she was afraid she would have to quarantine before seeing her elderly patients when she returned from our trip, so we borrowed a house from a friend in a small town in PA and spent a week there. VERY Trumpy. Not “Republican” (like where I live) but TRUMPY. My daughter basically wouldn’t leave the house- she has a 6 month old and does not want the covid, so I did all the “go out in public” chores. I spoke to a lot of them.
    PA will narrow. We’re going to have to fight to win this and we need turnout, turnout, turnout. We aren’t going to persuade these people and they are not going away. We have to get ALL our voters out if we want to win this.

  50. 50.

    lumpkin

    August 9, 2020 at 12:30 pm

    permanent cut to the payroll taxes that fund Social Security and Medicare if he wins reelection in November, a hard-to-accomplish political gambit that some experts see as a major headache for the future of the country’s entitlement programs.

    Why do reporters write like this? Are they genetically incapable of describing republican’s destructive behavior accurately? This would have an absolutely devastating effect and it’s described as a headache.

  51. 51.

    SFAW

    August 9, 2020 at 12:33 pm

    As I just said to Mrs. SFAW:

    I would have thought that, after almost four years, nothing he did could make my jaw (literally) drop. Then I saw this at CNN.com:
    New York Times: White House reached out to South Dakota governor about adding Trump to Mount Rushmore

  52. 52.

    cain

    August 9, 2020 at 12:43 pm

    @MattF:

    And, the suggestion that Microsoft should ‘share’ profits from the possible TikTok deal. That bit of casually corrupt dealing was mostly ignored, just the usual Donnie cut for services rendered.

    Isn’t that just like a tax? I would think every Republican would be screaming in rage.

  53. 53.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 9, 2020 at 12:43 pm

    @Kay:

    I spoke to a lot of them.
    PA will narrow. We’re going to have to fight to win this and we need turnout, turnout, turnout. We aren’t going to persuade these people and they are not going away. We have to get ALL our voters out if we want to win this.

    Yup. See also, FL, WI, MI, NC and AZ. It doesn’t mean we’re doomed! but there are a few people who are leaning too much into the idea that trump is doomed. Not here, but the sort of second-tier commenters and blog-prominent types whose names we recognize and tweets we see, while Normies say “What’s a Josh Farro?” and “Armando from DKos? What the fuck are you talking about?”

  54. 54.

    MattF

    August 9, 2020 at 12:49 pm

    @SFAW: And a Nobel prize, and Time MOTY, and have sex with his daughter.

  55. 55.

    Kay

    August 9, 2020 at 12:51 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    To grasp it I think you have to draw a distinction between “Republicans” as voters and “Trump people” as voters. The people I met in the sad and dying town in PA aren’t “Republicans”. They support Donald Trump and only Donald Trump.

    My town in Ohio is “Republican”. The power structure is moderate Republican. But my town is prosperous, comparitively. This is different. These places are collapsing and Trump has filled a void. Trump has made these places worse, but they’re so far gone they STILL won’t quit him. There is almost no real (not government subsidized)) economic activity at all in the town I was in. Without low income housing no one would live there. That’s not true in Republican towns. It is true in Trump towns.

  56. 56.

    rikyrah

    August 9, 2020 at 12:54 pm

    @japa21:

    Me too

  57. 57.

    Kay

    August 9, 2020 at 12:54 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    That’s why I wouldn’t include all the swing states. The southern and western states were Republican. They were never Trump states. These towns in PA are no more “Republican” than I am. They are Trump voters and they happen to matter because they live in places where in a tight race they can tip it.

    We need BIG turnout. The final will be closer than we think. He gets some good luck and he could win it again.

  58. 58.

    Kay

    August 9, 2020 at 1:00 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    In the town (proper) where I was there were two federally subsidized low income apartment complexes. Other than a smattering of private homes that’s it-that’s where they live.

    I was looking at houses that have been on the market for a year, dropped from 100k to 70k. No buyers. These towns no longer exist as going entities. There’s no private economic activity at all, outside a gas station. It’s fucking spooky really- there’s so few kids. Their school was closed- it was consolidated with a suburb and I can see why. The median age is probably 50. Dead. The “town” is gone, they just won’t admit it.

  59. 59.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 9, 2020 at 1:01 pm

    @Kay:

    To grasp it I think you have to draw a distinction between “Republicans” as voters and “Trump people” as voters. The people I met in the sad and dying town in PA aren’t “Republicans”. They support Donald Trump and only Donald Trump.

    well put, and I think very true

  60. 60.

    Kay

    August 9, 2020 at 1:21 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    He will have drop off in my county in terms of traditional Republicans. Some of them are horrified and they have told me they won’t support him. But that’s in a place that has been solidly Republican for 100 years- we have a GOP business class who run the town. They booted the Tea Party in one cycle because they fucked up town business. They refused to allocate funds for the town to remain functioning and REPUBLICANS here kicked them out in short order. They’re invested here and they’re not going to let a bunch of idiots kill their quality of life. They replaced the Tea Party with the standard college educated GOP who ACTUALLY run things in one cycle.

    The question will be if the Trump voters exceed the normal Republicans, statewide.

  61. 61.

    SFAW

    August 9, 2020 at 1:23 pm

    @MattF:

    And a Nobel prize, and Time POTY, and have sex with his daughter.

    Not necessarily in that order, of course.

    It should also be noted that, except for the daughter thing (ewww/Thank FSM!), they’re Obama achievements the Traitor-in-Chief will never have.

  62. 62.

    SFAW

    August 9, 2020 at 1:27 pm

    @Kay:

    I’ve said it before, but it’s worth repeating: I love reading your comments, and really appreciate your wisdom, insights, and perspicacity.

  63. 63.

    Kay

    August 9, 2020 at 1:29 pm

    This is anecdotal but I think it’s true. Democrats have to stop assuming people know things. I have an employee who was listening to me talk about politics with a retired judge in the waiting room of our office. We were speculating on the election. Okay I don’t know her politics and I would never ask – I know she’s sympathetic to BLM because she has mentioned it- she has 2 children she adopted from her drug addicted sister who are AA and this place is 90% white and she’s now experienced the bias. But her politics are her business. Anyway, she heard this and she sincerely told me that Democrats should tell people they support Social Security and Medicaid, because “people” don’t know it. And maybe they don’t. Maybe if you’re a 30 year old woman who hasn’t paid much attention and who spends most of your day either at work or ferrying your children to sporting events you just have no idea. She’s a very honest person- to the point of bluntness. She told me this in a “wanting to help” way :)

  64. 64.

    Cameron

    August 9, 2020 at 1:34 pm

    Slashing payroll taxes to gut social-welfare programs is an old, old Republican trick.  I doubt Trump thought of it himself; he’s way too stupid.  The ultimate dream of Turtle et al: screw us Olds, but blame it all on Trump.

  65. 65.

    Kay

    August 9, 2020 at 1:36 pm

    @SFAW:

    Oh, thanks. My daughter got mad at me for surveying the town. She literally said “stop talking to them- you’re supposed to stay inside”. She would only agree to outside distanced activities- bikes and kayaks.

    I met a woman from Michigan who was staying there- same story. Grown kids in NY, they met there as a safe spot in between MI and NY instead of going to Lake Michigan. I love Covid stories. Everyone has one. We both agreed Erie is an inferior Great Lake to Michigan and were pining away for Lake Michigan :)

  66. 66.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    August 9, 2020 at 2:08 pm

    @Kay: Democrats should tell people they support Social Security and Medicaid, because “people” don’t know it. And maybe they don’t

    Remember the signs with “Keep the government out of my Social Security”? The problem is the Dems say it,  those people won’t listen, the whole information bubble thing.

  67. 67.

    John Revolta

    August 9, 2020 at 2:20 pm

    @Kay: I remember driving through  central PA on a road trip during the 1984 campaign and the stuff I saw and heard shocked me.  It was like being in Alabama, and not Northern Alabama either. I knew right then that I was living in a NYC bubble; Mondale didn’t have a chance.

  68. 68.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    August 9, 2020 at 2:40 pm

    Oh good lord; Bloomberg is saying Trump got the idea for these EOs from an episode of House of Cards…

  69. 69.

    Hoodie

    August 9, 2020 at 2:43 pm

    @Kay: What you saw in PA is occurring in a lot of places because small town America is generally dying, even in relatively prosperous sunbelt states.  For example, you get too far off the interstate corridors in NC, you find a lot of dead textile/furniture manufacturing towns that are similar to these,  largely populated what I call feral white folks.  Same in parts of VA away from NOVA and Richmond.  The exceptions are the small towns close enough to Charlotte, RTP, etc. to be bedroom communities or towns that have a sizeable number of immigrants, who move to these towns because they’re cheap and have jobs in really awful stuff like meat processing or are close enough to urban centers to offer relatively high paying work (construction) with long commutes.  In addition, some of these towns in the south tend to have large black populations, who are not going to be Trump supporters even though they suffer from many of the same economic grievances of the white folks you describe.

    The question is whether there are enough of these feral Trump voters to really make a difference in a state like PA, given that the suburbs and cities tend to outnumber them.  They used to have a big effect in VA until the NOVA suburbs turned away from the GOP.  I wouldn’t assume that the part of PA you were in has that much electoral weight and that the real battle in PA will be the suburbs, where Biden should do well.

  70. 70.

    John Revolta

    August 9, 2020 at 3:02 pm

    @Hoodie: feral white folks

    I am SO stealing this!

  71. 71.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    August 9, 2020 at 3:05 pm

    @Hoodie: They were saying that suburban white women is were Trump is dying this time around.

  72. 72.

    SWMBO

    August 9, 2020 at 3:06 pm

    The reason Trump is trying to delay the eviction part of his “EO”s is that if you have no address, you have no vote.  And somewhere in his Adderall laced brain, something got through to him that if his base is rich white folks, they’re going to vote for him anyway.  It’s the poor white folks that have no home that won’t be able to vote for him.  And that means electoral death to his re-election.

    Let’s reopen the schools.  Yeah, what could go wrong?  You have to have an address to register/enroll your kids in school. No address, no school.  No address, no vote.  This is going to hit Trump’s base hard.  These people are the common clay of the new South. They can so home school their kids.  And their kids will be able to compete for jobs against the very best of the trailer park kids.

  73. 73.

    Betty Cracker

    August 9, 2020 at 3:08 pm

    @Kay: You’re right, but I think we’ll get the turnout we need because people are fed up. Trump definitely wins the “enthusiasm” metric over Biden, but it doesn’t look like the election will be about Biden. It’ll be about getting rid of Trump. He’s the best GOTV machine we have.

  74. 74.

    SWMBO

    August 9, 2020 at 3:12 pm

    @Betty Cracker: This virus and the economic fallout is going to fall on the poorest in the country.  No address, no vote.  How do we GOTV if we don’t keep people in their homes?  Is there some mechanism that isn’t obvious that lets people vote even if they’re homeless?  How do we get displaced people to vote and have it count?  Where do we attack this problem?

  75. 75.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 9, 2020 at 3:16 pm

    deleted, wrong thread

  76. 76.

    Betty Cracker

    August 9, 2020 at 3:26 pm

    @SWMBO: The poor are always the least likely to vote. It’s a huge problem from a human and small-d democracy perspective, but will it have a decisive effect on the upcoming election? Probably not.

  77. 77.

    Yutsano

    August 9, 2020 at 3:29 pm

    @SWMBO:

    No address, no vote.

    Not true. There are processes in every state that allow people with no permanent address to vote. And there is also the possibility of staying with a relative that also would allow that address to be used.

  78. 78.

    debbie

    August 9, 2020 at 3:31 pm

    @SFAW:

    I have endured Donald Trump since 1978 (when I moved to NYC). Despite all that time, I still feel the need to put my head through a wall when this kind of shit kicks up. Despite all that time, nothing has changed with him.

  79. 79.

    OGLiberal

    August 9, 2020 at 4:03 pm

    @Hoodie:  If Kay is referring to the same area cited in the article she quoted, these places will matter in PA.     Obama cleared double digits in a lot of the Wyoming Valley in NEPA both times he ran.  (Scranton-Wilkes Barre are urban with a lot of suburbs…the farms aren’t far away but this isn’t really “country”). Clinton barely won or lost in the same places.  Casey and Wolf won pretty big here in 2018.  This is historically Dem country and they do vote for Dems a lot.  But they are sad and aggrieved and Trump taps into their grievances.  Yeah, it’s very white here but, again, they voted for Obama twice and it wasn’t close.  Biden is a white dude who was literally born here so that may help.  Clinton had roots here as well and she was white but there was something else about her that I’m sure changed the votes of a lot of folks from both genders.  Kay is right, these folks mostly aren’t Republicans, they are Trumpers.  And there are more than enough voters here that if Clinton had done half as well as Obama she probably would have won PA.

  80. 80.

    Betty Cracker

    August 9, 2020 at 4:18 pm

    @OGLiberal: The party’s bet was that Biden can get those people back. We’ll see.

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