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You are here: Home / Anderson On Health Insurance / What we don’t know will hurt a lot of us

What we don’t know will hurt a lot of us

by David Anderson|  August 19, 20208:50 am| 100 Comments

This post is in: Anderson On Health Insurance, COVID-19 Coronavirus

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Ed Yong in the Atlantic writes about the long-haulers from COVID:

When we spoke on day 150, she was on her fifth month of gastrointestinal problems and severe morning nausea. She still has extreme fatigue, bulging veins, excessive bruising, an erratic heartbeat, short-term memory loss, gynecological problems, sensitivity to light and sounds, and brain fog. Even writing an email can be hard, she told me, “because the words I think I’m writing are not the words coming out.” She wakes up gasping for air twice a month. It still hurts to inhale.

Tens of thousands of people, collectively known as “long-haulers,” have similar stories…They suggest that in the United States alone, which has more than 5 million confirmed COVID-19 cases, there are probably hundreds of thousands of long-haulers.

This is our biggest unknown. We don’t know what long term prognosis from COVID is. We don’t know what one year of COVID looks like. We don’t know this because we only have 8 months worth of data on anything about COVID. We have less than six months of data on any appreciable population in the United States.

Some people are likely to have recovered with no long lasting effects.

Other people still have not recovered to their January 2020 health status. And they might never.

We don’t know!

And this is why the YOLO let’s get herd immunity plans by engaging in mass internal migration and social mixing known as college move-in falls apart on any risk assessment measure. We know that higher infection levels and community spread will lead to more deaths. We can somewhat model that with appropriate coefficiencts for demographic changes in the mixture of infections. We can’t really model long term effects of incremental additional infections.

we need to crush community spread. We need to do that to minimize deaths and to also minimize future long term consequences of being infected and not fully recovering.

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Reader Interactions

100Comments

  1. 1.

    Mousebumples

    August 19, 2020 at 9:14 am

    I completely agree. Recent reports indicate we may have long lasting immunity if we are infected – but with the risks of death or long term disability, why risk it ?

  2. 2.

    Eric U.

    August 19, 2020 at 9:18 am

    Probably the only person that is going to be fired over universities reopening is the Yale professor that told the truth about it link

  3. 3.

    Mary G

    August 19, 2020 at 9:21 am

    It’s a good argument for universal access to health care, because these people will need a lot of it.

  4. 4.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 19, 2020 at 9:23 am

    Dave, I wanted to let you know that tho it took a while for my NOLA son’s application for Medicaid to process, it finally came thru in the positive. Thanx much for the advice, and the offer of now thankfully unneeded additional assistance.

  5. 5.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 19, 2020 at 9:25 am

    @Mary G: Why do I think Republicans will see it as an argument for why universal health care will be too expensive?

  6. 6.

    seaninclt

    August 19, 2020 at 9:29 am

    Alyssa Milano is a long-hauler and has been talking repeatedly about this issue.

  7. 7.

    David Anderson

    August 19, 2020 at 9:30 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Awesome — I hope that things will work out well for him.

    Again, if you need anything e-mail me.

  8. 8.

    Gin & Tonic

    August 19, 2020 at 9:31 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:  Not directed to you, but the Medicaid thing made me think: my son just returned to the US, and although there’s a job in the pipeline, he is not currently employed, so zero income. He applied through NYS for Medicaid, and I guess they told him coverage will begin Oct 1. I thought that international relocation was a “qualifying event” and he could get immediate coverage? David?

  9. 9.

    WereBear

    August 19, 2020 at 9:35 am

    Mr WereBear went through years of hell to get on disability, even with an official diagnosis of CFS/ME from a Johns Hopkins-educated endocrinologist.

    We had to sue his disability insurance, and settle for pennies on the dollar.

    COVID long haulers are going to face the same crap if we don’t ditch the profit motive from sick people.

  10. 10.

    ant

    August 19, 2020 at 9:35 am

    This has been obvious to me for quite some time now.

    The Republican “take the hit” strategy is a risky roll of the dice over the long term irrespective of death counts in 2020-2021.

    It was a long time ago when I told my husband that we would be paying for Covid for the rest of our lives in increased health care premiums, and higher disability payments. Also lower overall productivity, and lower quality of life as a nation compared to the world on average.

    The failure to seriously address collective action problems will be the death of our species. There are no easy answers. We are collectively incapable of planing for the future.

  11. 11.

    R-Jud

    August 19, 2020 at 9:54 am

    I had a COVID-like illness back in late March. (Symptoms started just days after the UK ended community testing, so I don’t know for sure if I had it, but I had all the symptoms including loss of smell and the weird toes.) I’ve made quite a decent recovery, but am still dealing with brain fog, heart palpitations, and (weirdly) tinnitus all this time later. I can’t imagine how I’d be coping if I were still having that shortness of breath I experienced back in the spring.

  12. 12.

    David Anderson

    August 19, 2020 at 10:05 am

    @Gin & Tonic: That is weird… e-mail me and we’ll figure out what the hell is going on.

  13. 13.

    David C

    August 19, 2020 at 10:09 am

    Great article. The neurological effects seem to go beyond the organ inflammatory and vascular injury effects. Because we have a defined cohort of patients with known infections, we may be able to link these effects to those of patients whose infectious disease history is unknown. It’s got to be tough to go through this, especially not knowing if the syndrome is self-limiting or not.

  14. 14.

    wvng

    August 19, 2020 at 10:29 am

    One of my great frustrations through all this is inability to get a sense of absolute numbers for a lot of this to put this illness into the proper perspective. I can find number of confirmed cases and number of covid deaths, and daily hospitalizations. What I feel a need to see are total # of individuals who have been hospitalized, # of people with extended covid illness, # of “long haul” sufferers, percentage/# of people who had “mild” illness who were not hospitalized but continue to have problems. That small German study that found 70% of asymptomatic and mild symptom cases had heart irregularities or myocarditis was startling.

  15. 15.

    geg6

    August 19, 2020 at 10:33 am

    Students at my small campus start moving in tomorrow. Not including PA students, we have 28 states and 10 foreign countries represented. I will be back in my office, meeting with parents and students during move in and the drop/add period that ends next Friday. I’m not a happy camper about this, but I don’t have a choice in the matter. I really wasn’t given a choice, unlike the faculty. If I get infected, I’m going to be pretty pissed.

    I really wish I could retire.

  16. 16.

    Malovich

    August 19, 2020 at 10:33 am

    This is the thing about novel coronaviruses that is absolutely bonkers that people cannot process. I really wish they would, we’d get a lot more compliance from the fence-sitters and social contrarians.

    The GOP death cult and their voters can go straight to hell.

  17. 17.

    CliosFanBoy

    August 19, 2020 at 10:48 am

    Meanwhile, I am supposed to start classes Monday, wearing a mask AND a face shield, in a  classroom that can only hold maybe one-quarter of my students at a time. Oh, and my class time dropped from 75 minutes to 60 so they can stagger classes leaving and arriving (which was a good idea). So  I am teaching 100% online. I have tenure. Go ahead and make a stink.  I’ll be happy to answer threats with a nice letter from a lawyer.

  18. 18.

    TaMara (HFG)

    August 19, 2020 at 10:51 am

    Notes from the recovery trenches:

    Shortness of breath ✔

    Extreme fatigue ✔

    Weird heart palpitations – have FINALLY subsided.

    April 13 – first symptoms and this week, other than sleeping A. LOT. (I’m assuming partly because of the travel and family stress) I am finally feeling more like myself. I’m back to cycling 30 minutes and am going to try for every day this week to gauge how I’m doing.

    But I will say that the extreme shortness of breath comes out of nowhere – feel fine for days and then wake up one morning gasping for air all day. So, I’m cautious on that front.

    And I had a “mild” case. The unknown here is a bit scary.

  19. 19.

    WaterGirl

    August 19, 2020 at 10:55 am

    @geg6: I’m sorry.  I really hate that you have to do that.

  20. 20.

    chopper

    August 19, 2020 at 10:56 am

    @Mary G:

    exactly. assuming immunity lasts a year or two, this means 80+% of the country will need to get a covid shot every year.

  21. 21.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    August 19, 2020 at 10:56 am

    @Mousebumples:

    Haven’t you heard? It is your patriotic duty to take on the unknown risk of lifetime poor health or death in order to:

    1. Make it more likely for Donald John Trump to have a second term by throwing your body into the economy; and

    2. Validating the greatness of conservatism by sacrificing yourself for it, without question.

    I regret that I have but one life to give in the service of and gratitude for Donald John Trump.

  22. 22.

    WaterGirl

    August 19, 2020 at 10:58 am

    @TaMara (HFG): I admired how brave you were when you were going through it, and these past couple of months I have admired your grace in handling the ongoing symptoms that have to be distressing.  And the not knowing?  That’s really hard.

  23. 23.

    Old School

    August 19, 2020 at 11:04 am

    I agree.  The long-term effects are what makes the “herd immunity” ideas dangerous.

    My father-in-law had rheumatic fever as a child.  He fully recovered and then as an adult, he had heart issues for the last 30 years of his life.

  24. 24.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    August 19, 2020 at 11:05 am

    @TaMara (HFG): Thanks for the update. I’ve wondered how you were doing but didn’t want to ask.

  25. 25.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    August 19, 2020 at 11:18 am

    @Eric U.:  I do appreciate the fact that the writer of the article mentioned this, because there is no Yale campus as such, Yale is spread out over New Haven,  and also West Haven (they bought the old Bayer property, its now the home of the Nursing school/West Campus.)  Add in Yale New Haven Hospital and all of it’s branches,  and life this fall is going to get interesting…

    “Additionally, because the campus is intertwined with the city — even bisected by Elm Street — though undergraduates are tested every few days, there are large swaths of city residents and sophomores living off campus who the school won’t test and who could possibly be part of an outbreak, Vermund added. “

  26. 26.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    August 19, 2020 at 11:21 am

    @TaMara (HFG): I hope all of your symptoms disappear soon.  I also hope you get the time to rest and recuperate that you need.

  27. 27.

    Nicole

    August 19, 2020 at 11:21 am

    My son’s school (elementary/middle) is starting all online and already there are parents who are really upset about it. The school is a pretty diverse mix of families, from very working class to very well-off, but it’s the well-off parents who are making a stink. And I don’t get it- I mean, I completely empathize with how hard online learning is- we’re tightening our belts hard because I’ll be on full-time kid watching- but everything I read from health experts all say opening schools is not a good idea. And all the info about long-haulers is really scary.

    A number of private schools here are opening with in-person instruction. I spoke with an educator friend yesterday and a friend of hers, who heads up one of these schools, says it’s pressure from the parents making them do it, and they anticipate being closed again by November. And I have no doubt the same parents demanding these schools open will not hesitate to sue those schools if/when their child gets sick.

    This all sucks so, so bad. But these are our kids. I don’t want to risk their long-term health for 18 months of struggling to make distance learning work.  And rather than giving money to families so they CAN stay home with the kids, we instead run a huge science experiment with our children as the guinea pigs.

  28. 28.

    gkoutnik

    August 19, 2020 at 11:23 am

    Both colleges located in our small city – 7,000 students – are opening in person classes (hybrid model, but the students will be here).  The community spread numbers in our county have been pretty good this summer.  But how about the community spread numbers in the cities and towns that the students are coming from?  How can we talk about opening up campuses – or anything else – until the community spread in the entire country is brought under control?

    We say, “The virus doesn’t respect borders,” but also say, “You can open up if your community spread is under control.”  Doesn’t compute.

  29. 29.

    Geo Wilcox

    August 19, 2020 at 11:29 am

    Wait till they find out it affects fertility. The testes in males have the same ACE-2 receptors that the hearts, liver, kidneys, etc have and which are all attacked by the virus. What’s to stop it from attacking the  cells in the male sexual organs?

    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200624/Abnormal-findings-in-testicular-tissue-of-COVID-19-patients-SARS-CoV-2-mostly-undetected.aspx

  30. 30.

    Hoodie

    August 19, 2020 at 11:30 am

    Yeah, recent talk I’ve heard about a potentially lower threshold for herd immunity by some non-life sciences mathematicians and armchair epidemiologists is worrying because people will latch on to that too easily and ignore issues like this.  It may turn out to be true and would certainly be good news if true, but there simply has not been enough research to make any assumptions.

    Relatedly, I think the GOP has always danced with the dark side because their electoral success has generally relied on telling people that their own simplistic views of the world are inherently superior to scientists, judges, and other “expert” figures who had gained authority by established channels, such as education, experience in government etc.   My guess is that there was probably a lot of that type of populism before the Depression (e.g., in the 20’s), but the Depression scared the shit out of people (including a lot of the rich) and the relative competence of the Roosevelt administration in dealing with the situation dampened that particular impulse and restored some confidence in intelligentsia, especially after the perceived success in WWII.   It re-emerged with the election of a washed up B-movie actor and corporate shill to the presidency who told a susceptible public made vulnerable by the massive clusterfuck in Viet Nam and the attendant social unrest that government is the problem.  It’s endemic.

  31. 31.

    WereBear

    August 19, 2020 at 11:37 am

    @TaMara (HFG): At least some things ARE getting better. Ray of light there, I hope.

  32. 32.

    The Moar You Know

    August 19, 2020 at 11:37 am

    If you think lockdowns are expensive, try having 10% of the US working population on permanent disability from COVID complications.  You can probably add another 2% who will be growing up COVID orphans and who will need help for a long time.   America will be broke forever under that financial burden.

    This admin won’t care.  In fact, pretty sure this is just the kind of thing their Russian employers wanted.

  33. 33.

    Barbara

    August 19, 2020 at 11:38 am

    @geg6: Ugh.  My brother in law is a professor at the main campus and I don’t think he will be teaching in person at all.  He had a major cardiac event in January and I doubt he would survive an infection.

    Somewhat related, I went into a local bodega and noticed that they had put a detailed sign on the door about wearing masks.  The highlights were, “you have a right not to wear a mask and we have a right to protect our employees by not letting you into our store,” and wrapping up with, “Stop confusing inconvenience with oppression.”

    I hope mask wearing is not an issue for those you are coming into contact with.

  34. 34.

    Barbara

    August 19, 2020 at 11:41 am

    @Nicole: More evidence that those of us who have been lucky in life are having a very hard time dealing with adversity.  But expecting others to take higher risks than we would take for ourselves is just an infuriating response.  And yes, I am incredibly disappointed that we are stuck with online learning here for now, but what else can we do?

  35. 35.

    CaseyL

    August 19, 2020 at 11:47 am

    A friend of mine has a life-long cluster of strange conditions that intermittently flare up into potentially life-threatening acute phases.  I’ve been scared for her, since exposure to Covid-19 would wreak havoc on an already-havocked system.  But she’s been relatively fearless, having regular family gatherings – though not, I think, going out traveling as she used to do.  I think in her case, living with chronic conditions has made her a bit fatalistic: “Condition X hasn’t killed me, and neither has Condition Y, so what the hell.”

    Me? I took the antigen test, which came back negative.  That was a surprise.  I figured **everyone** has at least been exposed – particularly here in the PNW, and particularly since the virus was here long before we knew it was.  I figured the most relevant factors were quantity of virus load and duration of exposure, in terms of actually coming down with Covid-19.  It looks like I was wrong, and had the luck/carefulness to not be exposed at all.

    Which, to tell the truth, is scarier. Because I have to continue being absolutely vigilant, careful, and semi-hermetic.

  36. 36.

    Barbara

    August 19, 2020 at 11:50 am

    @CaseyL: My antigen test was also negative, even though I had a month’s worth of mostly mild symptoms, starting with a dry cough, escalating to fatigue and fever, which resolved a few weeks before the cough did.  It’s possible the test was wrong, that my symptoms were too mild to register or that I had something else.  My working assumption is that I didn’t have it.

  37. 37.

    Fair Economist

    August 19, 2020 at 12:02 pm

    My concern, and hypothesis, about the long-haulers is that neurons can express the ACE2 target. CNS neurons are immunologically privileged – T-cells can’t normally kill them – because they are irreplaceable in adults. Coronaviruses are not generally lytic either – they don’t have to kill the host cell. So SARS2 can get into neurons, and once it’s there, it’s very difficult to get out. Neurons can control viruses replicating inside them via the interferon system, but that requires interferon and all the flu-like symptoms it creates (interestingly pretty typical of long-haulers). It’s also very possible the RNA interference system also serves to control viruses. All the same, I think it’s likely – and terrifying – that COVID is producing long-term neurological infections

    @The Moar You Know:

    If you think lockdowns are expensive, try having 10% of the US working population on permanent disability from COVID complications.

    Amen.

  38. 38.

    Miss Bianca

    August 19, 2020 at 12:08 pm

    @TaMara (HFG): I’ve been citing your “mild case” symptoms while hammering the locals here about “why the theater hasn’t opened up again yet” and “why everyone needs to be wearing masks and practicing social distancing still”.

    And our school just opened up again today. The betting figure on when they will shut down again? I gave it a generous six weeks, the librarian gave it two, my editor and I have settled on four – two weeks to confirm that yes, indeed, cases have spread throughout the school community, and two more weeks to go completely online.

  39. 39.

    geg6

    August 19, 2020 at 12:15 pm

    @Barbara:

    I expect about a week of classes and then we’ll all be online again.  I have few expectations of success in this endeavor.

    Mask wearing has not improved much here, though the infections have decreased locally the last few weeks.  It really depends on where you are.  In Target and Giant Eagle stores, it seems to be pretty universal.  Walmart is a nightmare.  There are a few local restaurants that are taking a lot of chances for my taste.  And the new Shell cracker plant, with all of the out-of-state workers mostly from places like OK, TX and LA based on the license plates I see on the giant pickups they all drive like lunatics, has been a vector of infection locally.  Although I have no faith in Shell’s commitment to safety on the construction site, I see these people out in the community and they are assholes.

    I’m very pessimistic at this point.

  40. 40.

    Fair Economist

    August 19, 2020 at 12:15 pm

    @Miss Bianca: I think 2 to 6 weeks is a good range, because it will depend on the local response. With active monitoring, it will be 2 weeks because they’ll catch the spread in the school. With casual responses, it will be 4 weeks because that’s when secondary spread is obvious in the community. With denialism, 6 weeks, because that’s when the secondary cases start dying.

  41. 41.

    BC in Illinois

    August 19, 2020 at 12:16 pm

    Even aside from the long-term health effects, I don’t think that the herd immunity people have thought through the effects of tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths.

    My brother died last night from Covid-19. He had been exposed at work to someone who had gone to a family gathering in July. My brother, who was fairly observant about masks and distances and the like, admitted that they were not so consistent about wearing masks continuously around co-workers. When the co-worker went into the hospital, all the workers were tested. My brother tested positive and quarantined at home. That lasted for a week or so before he came down with a fever and low blood oxygen level and went to the hospital. There he got better. Until he didn’t. ICU. Oxygen level down. Blood pressure down. Then he got better. Until he didn’t. Ventilator on Monday. They called his wife in to say goodbye. He died Tuesday night.

    Now. Death comes to us all. Every family has the experience of accidents, illness, death. But death in a pandemic does have its differences. In a normal time (like last year), I would be making arrangements today to fly to Maryland. The family in Maryland would be gathering at the sister-in-law’s house. But she has been quarantined at home herself. People bring by soups and salads, but mostly it’s all done at a distance. Arrangements beyond that? We will see.

    And here is where Facebook life kicks in. I wrote an overnight article about my brother on my FB page. Today I look at comments on the article and see who has shared the article and look at their comments. I look at pictures that my daughter put on her page and the comments and shares there. Dozens of people have “reached out” to me. On FB. By email. By text. Not real life, but that’s what I have . . . and it’s not nothing.

    Not real life, but I have appreciated the  contacts of so many people – supporting me, my family, my sister-in-law, her family. It’s like a real funeral, where people I don’t know tell me about what they knew of my brother, or of their contacts with those who loved him. (When my first daughter died, back in the ‘70s, I was really touched by how many people came to see me, then I realized that half of them were coming to be a support for my mother.)

    That’s sort of normal. But nothing is normal in pandemic times. The people that think that we can just “herd immunity” our way through this, have no idea what the real-life effects will be, of what they’re prescribing.

  42. 42.

    Nicole

    August 19, 2020 at 12:23 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I am so, so sorry.

  43. 43.

    Johnny Gentle (famous crooner)

    August 19, 2020 at 12:28 pm

    @ant: They’ve simply never accepted that it has any serious or lasting effects. To them, only sickly, old and black people have any real risk of severe symptoms or death. If you don’t live in a nursing home or New York City, you’ll be fine.

    If they actually do hear stories about long-haulers, it means nothing to them because there must be some underlying health or demographic reason why this happened to them, because the virus simply isn’t that bad. I mean, “Only a 2% death rate” is their mantra.

    It’s human nature to believe you’re special and will somehow be excepted out of something happening to everyone. Compound that with the internet-fed stupidity and paranoia of today’s republicans and you can see why they’re not just oblivious about COVID but actually prone to conspiracies and violence about it.

  44. 44.

    BlueNC

    August 19, 2020 at 12:29 pm

    @BC in Illinois: 

    I am so sorry to hear this, BC in Illinois. May his memory be a blessing to you and your family.

  45. 45.

    Monala

    August 19, 2020 at 12:31 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I’m so sorry about your brother. My deepest condolences.

  46. 46.

    Miss Bianca

    August 19, 2020 at 12:32 pm

    @BC in Illinois: Oh, oh, oh. So, so sorry to hear it. My condolences.

    I am so torn up about how badly we are handling this. There are thousands of stories like yours out there, all unique, all similar, all heartbreaking.

  47. 47.

    beth

    August 19, 2020 at 12:35 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I am so sorry for your loss. I’ve always been a loner kind of person so when my husband died I was surprised how much I appreciated having supportive friends and family with me – I can’t imagine how hard it is to do alone. The affect on people’s mental health from this virus is greatly underestimated in my opinion.

  48. 48.

    Fair Economist

    August 19, 2020 at 12:40 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I am so sorry to hear that.

  49. 49.

    Sister Golden Bear

    August 19, 2020 at 12:40 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I’m so sorry. May his memory be a blessing.

  50. 50.

    Nicole

    August 19, 2020 at 12:48 pm

    @Barbara:

    More evidence that those of us who have been lucky in life are having a very hard time dealing with adversity.

    Yeah, this.  Someone posted somewhere that (mainly white) Americans are very unused to hearing, “no” and they’re right. As a result, we are not well equipped to deal with something that is not open to demands to speak with the manager.

  51. 51.

    geg6

    August 19, 2020 at 12:48 pm

    @BC in Illinois:

    My deepest sympathies to you and your family.  Another awful and unnecessary death, another family torn by grief and still no leadership.  Vote in honor of your brother.  Have all your relatives do the same.  It’s all we can do right now, but it isn’t nothing.  Peace to you and yours.

  52. 52.

    Old School

    August 19, 2020 at 12:54 pm

    @BC in Illinois: My sympathies on your loss.

  53. 53.

    TaMara (HFG)

    August 19, 2020 at 12:56 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: You can always ask! I’m working under the assumption that my struggles with Covid-19 will help others as they encourage everyone to wear a mask or if they are going through it themselves. When I found out one of my clients had it, it was like finding a 4-leaf clover for both of us, just reassuring to share symptoms and recovery.

  54. 54.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    August 19, 2020 at 12:57 pm

    @BC in Illinois:

    I’m so sorry about your brother

  55. 55.

    TaMara (HFG)

    August 19, 2020 at 12:58 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I am so very sorry! There are no words. This is a terrible loss.

    ETA: Fuck Trump and all his enablers.

  56. 56.

    Cheryl Rofer

    August 19, 2020 at 1:12 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I’m sorry. It’s hard to lose family, and particularly in this way. Take care of yourself and your family.

  57. 57.

    WaterGirl

    August 19, 2020 at 1:20 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I am so very sorry.  What a terrible loss.  And your sister-in-law, in the midst of losing her husband, now has to worry about her own risk of COVID.

    Again, I am so sorry.  Virtual hugs.

  58. 58.

    Tom Levenson

    August 19, 2020 at 1:24 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I’m so sorry to hear of your loss.

    There aren’t good words at such moments–fewer at this one. But I wish all possible comfort for you and your family.

  59. 59.

    H.E.Wolf

    August 19, 2020 at 1:43 pm

    @BC in Illinois: Deepest sympathies to you and your extended family.

  60. 60.

    Barbara

    August 19, 2020 at 1:43 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I am so sorry.  My brother died unexpectedly two years ago, and if he had gotten sick this year — whether from Covid or from the terminal cancer that killed him — I would not have been able to support him in the last weeks of his life.  That makes death even harder to bear.  Sending heartfelt condolences to your entire family.

  61. 61.

    JeanneT

    August 19, 2020 at 1:47 pm

    @BC in Illinois: My heart goes out to you and your family.

  62. 62.

    Wolvesvalley

    August 19, 2020 at 1:53 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I am so sorry to read this. I am holding you and your family in the light.

  63. 63.

    Medicine Man

    August 19, 2020 at 1:57 pm

    Mild case here too, back in spring.

    Does anyone have experience with mild nausea in the morning? I’ve noticed this in my case – post recovery – and am wondering if this is due to COVID after-effects.

  64. 64.

    arrieve

    August 19, 2020 at 1:57 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I am so sorry for your loss. And for your poor sister-in-law going through losing her husband while being quarantined herself. Having friends and family around you is one of the things that helps the most after a death, and it’s one of the worst parts of this pandemic that it’s taken that little bit of consolation away from us.

  65. 65.

    Kay

    August 19, 2020 at 1:57 pm

    My middle son came got tested yesterday when he went in for stitches for a gash on his leg. I was surprised by that – he didn’t complain of anything other than the cut on his leg. He said they took his temp but no one said it was high and I took his temp and it’s normal. He doesn’t mind that he was tested and he’s glad he’ll get results because he did a job in a nursing home here that has two cases, now, not when he did the job.

  66. 66.

    WaterGirl

    August 19, 2020 at 1:59 pm

    @Medicine Man: The block quote at the top of the post says that woman has severe nausea in the morning.  That leads me to think you are not alone in the morning nausea club.  That would suck.

  67. 67.

    Zelma

    August 19, 2020 at 2:05 pm

    @BC in Illinois:

    Deepest sympathy.

    I think all of us are doing much of our living online these days.  It’s not like being with people, but thank goodness we have it.

  68. 68.

    WaterGirl

    August 19, 2020 at 2:05 pm

    @BC in Illinois:  I added a note about your loss in the California peeps check-in thread.

    I hope that’s okay.  So you may want to check that thread for notes to you in the comments.

  69. 69.

    Medicine Man

    August 19, 2020 at 2:09 pm

    @BC in Illinois: Hang in there. Really sorry for your loss.

  70. 70.

    Aleta

    August 19, 2020 at 2:13 pm

    @BC in Illinois: My sympathy to you and your loved ones.

  71. 71.

    Amir Khalid

    August 19, 2020 at 2:16 pm

    @BC in Illinois:

    I’m sorry your brother had to suffer, and like the rest of the Jackaltariat I grieve along with you and your extended family. I feel the same way about herd-immunity strategies: the cost in what bereaved families must endure on that path is too high — needlessly high.

  72. 72.

    Marcopolo

    August 19, 2020 at 2:19 pm

    BC, so sorry to hear this. I’m making a donation to Jill Schupp in your brother’s memory today. Really hoping you wake up on Nov. 4 with a new congressperson who actually represents your values & will take this pandemic seriously. And when it is safe to get back to such things, we’ll do a St Louis BJ meet up where you can tell me a little about your brother over a couple beers. Until then, stay safe & take care of yourself & your loved ones.

  73. 73.

    Bluegirlfromwyo

    August 19, 2020 at 2:21 pm

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner):

    I mean, “only a 2% death rate”’ is their mantra.

    Once again, GOP failure at math fails us all. I bet none of them believe the simple math that 2% of 200 million infected is 4 million dead.

  74. 74.

    Bluegirlfromwyo

    August 19, 2020 at 2:26 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I am so sorry he’s gone, and doubly sorry that you and yours can’t come together to mourn.

  75. 75.

    Betty Cracker

    August 19, 2020 at 2:26 pm

    @BC in Illinois: So sorry to hear this terrible news. Condolences to you and your family.

  76. 76.

    Phein60

    August 19, 2020 at 2:33 pm

    @geg6:   After two days of classes, Illinois Wesleyan has 10 new cases: small, private DIII college, but in a town of 200K+.  That’s cases among students; they aren’t telling us numbers among faculty/staff.

  77. 77.

    chopper

    August 19, 2020 at 2:34 pm

    jesus, BC, that’s terrible news.

  78. 78.

    David C

    August 19, 2020 at 2:38 pm

    @BC in Illinois: So sorry. I hope you can find some comfort from the on-line gang here.

  79. 79.

    BC in Illinois

    August 19, 2020 at 2:40 pm

    @WaterGirl:  Yes.. Thank you

  80. 80.

    BC in Illinois

    August 19, 2020 at 2:43 pm

    @geg6:

    Vote in honor of your brother.

    Oh yes.  My Sister-in-law is all about that.

  81. 81.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 19, 2020 at 2:43 pm

    I’m so sorry BC.

  82. 82.

    BC in Illinois

    August 19, 2020 at 2:44 pm

    @Marcopolo:

    I’m making a donation to Jill Schupp in your brother’s memory today.

    Yes. Thank you. That’s entirely appropriate, and welcome.

  83. 83.

    BC in Illinois

    August 19, 2020 at 2:46 pm

    @David C:

    I hope you can find some comfort from the on-line gang here.

    Oh yes. Thanks to you all.

  84. 84.

    Delk

    August 19, 2020 at 2:46 pm

    @BC in Illinois: so very sorry to hear about your brother.

  85. 85.

    beth

    August 19, 2020 at 2:49 pm

    @Medicine Man: my daughter is a long hauler and has noticed certain foods make her body aches and nausea worse – for her it’s gluten, refined sugar and dairy. She’s never had any problems with these foods before. It may help to keep a journal of your symptoms along with the foods you’ve eaten.  If you’re having nausea in the morning without having eaten anything obviously this wouldn’t help.

  86. 86.

    Lyrebird

    August 19, 2020 at 2:49 pm

    @BC in Illinois: Another voice… without great phrasing but with heartfelt condolences.  May his memory be a blessing and may you be surrounded by love even in this awful time.

  87. 87.

    Ohio Mom

    August 19, 2020 at 3:06 pm

    Adding my condolences, BC in Illinois. What a roller coaster his illness was — sick enough for the hospital, getting better, no, getting worse, looking better, no, he isn’t… That had to be a horror to go through.

    Here’s hoping you and your family are able to find solace in knowing the doctors and nurses tried their hardest, that all of you did exactly what needed doing, that many are grieving with you and sending you all their virtual support. May you also find comfort in your memories.

  88. 88.

    StringOnAStick

    August 19, 2020 at 3:08 pm

    @BC in Illinois:  I’m so very sorry for your loss.

    Facebook has a few uses, and comfort and contact at a time like this, when you can’t see family and friends in person is certainly one of them. Facebook should be a public utility..

  89. 89.

    opiejeanne

    August 19, 2020 at 3:09 pm

    @BC in Illinois: 
    I just saw this and I’m so sorry. I’m glad so many are there for you even if we’re all Imaginary Friends.

  90. 90.

    Jean

    August 19, 2020 at 3:28 pm

    Distressing to hear the news about your brother, BC in Illinois. Many of those commenting here or on FB, may be virtual friends, but their feelings are genuine and real.

  91. 91.

    rikyrah

    August 19, 2020 at 3:55 pm

    These stories frighten me. We have found out nothing good about this disease. Nothing.

  92. 92.

    rikyrah

    August 19, 2020 at 3:56 pm

    @BC in Illinois:

     

    I am so sorry for your loss. I will say a few prayers.

  93. 93.

    geg6

    August 19, 2020 at 3:57 pm

    @Phein60:

    We’re so small, we can’t even make DIII.  Our varsity athletes compete in the USCAA.  Our student population is only about 600.  We are one of the smallest PSU campuses.  If we get just a few cases, it will be a major emergency.

  94. 94.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio

    August 19, 2020 at 4:01 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I’m so sorry. I’d hoped the worst was behind you all after your news the other day.

  95. 95.

    Johnny Gentle (Famous Crooner)

    August 19, 2020 at 4:04 pm

    @Bluegirlfromwyo: That was a typo in my part. I think it’s 0.2% or something similarly made up.

  96. 96.

    satby

    August 19, 2020 at 4:17 pm

    @BC in Illinois: Deepest condolences on the loss of your brother. I hope there will come a time not too long in the future when you can gather with your family and celebrate his life together.

  97. 97.

    satby

    August 19, 2020 at 4:20 pm

    @Bluegirlfromwyo: Exactly. At a death rate of 1.25% and a population of 328.2 million, over 4 million people sacrificed to stupidity. Just mindboggling.

  98. 98.

    laura

    August 19, 2020 at 5:13 pm

    @BC in Illinois: I am so sorry for your loss – and that the cause is what prevents you from grieving as a family. Wishing you comfort and Grace.

  99. 99.

    MomSense

    August 19, 2020 at 6:06 pm

    @BC in Illinois:

    Oh, BC I am so sorry.  It makes me so angry that this has happened to your family.  Sending peace and love to you and all of your extended family.

  100. 100.

    J R in WV

    August 19, 2020 at 6:12 pm

    @BC in Illinois:

    So sorry for your family’s loss. We’re lucky so far that no one close has suffered from Covid-19 at all, but I’ve lost my family’s whole elder generation just from getting old, and one whole set of cousins way too early from using tobacco.

    Hang in there, know that there’s a big group of online jackal folks who know you and sympathize with your loss.

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