Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The willow is too close to the house.

Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

People are weird.

American history and black history cannot be separated.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Every decision we make has lots of baggage with it, known or unknown.

Everybody saw this coming.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Let there be snark.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Come on, man.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

You cannot love your country only when you win.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2020 / RNC Day 4, Part II

Reader Interactions

306Comments

  1. 1.

    TS (the original)

    Copied from the end of the previous thread:

    And what’s with all the white shirts in the audience? Was it a condition of entry that white shirts must be worn?

  4. 4.

    gene108

    I watched 2-3 minutes of Trump’s speech. Seemed to be just a rehashing of his regular lies.

    Did Trump grope Ivanka, like in 2016?

    Anyway, I want a strong  a gust of wind to dishevel his hair, while he is speaking.

  7. 7.

    Ksmiami

    Don’t worry just vote – within two weeks, a bigly number of attendees will have contracted Covid…

  9. 9.

    Patricia Kayden

    This weird thing where the country will devolve into violence under Joe Biden and we know this because the country has devolved into violence under Trump is giving me a headache.— digby (@digby56) August 28, 2020

  12. 12.

    opiejeanne

    I can’t get Twitter to load it. In fact, I can’t get Twitter to bring up anything.

    What am I missing?

  13. 13.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    The White House said in a story published Thursday that it was compiling a “very large” dossier on a Pulitzer Prize-winning Washington Post reporter and others who it said are a “disgrace to journalism and the American people.”

    The astonishing revelation about the White House’s efforts to discredit reporter David Fahrenthold came after The Post requested comment for a Thursday story he wrote with two colleagues. The story, co-bylined by reporters Josh Dawsey and Joshua Partlow, detailed how President Trump’s company “charged the U.S. government more than $900,000” for hotel rooms fees among other services at Mar-a-Lago.

    h/t https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/27/media/white-house-dossier-journalists/

  14. 14.

    mad citizen

    From the other thread, why the death grip on the podium?  If you follow Tom Joseph twitter, it’s due to trump’s dementia and reduced capabilities.  Notice all the arm jerking.

    I too am horrified this is happening at the White House

    And another thing.  Watching a clip or two of Melania today after last night.  Her heavy accent is unforgiveable.

  18. 18.

    Mary G

    I had to turn it off. I can only take so much of that voice. I don’t even watch the impersonator or Sarah Cooper.

  21. 21.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @WaterGirl: 
    I gather from comments downstairs that Lara Trump also fixed Ivanka with a look of pure loathing. Hope somebody captured that on video. I’m always up for watching the Trump women lay some hate on each other.

  22. 22.

    Jeffro

    @Edmund Dantes: I think – if I remember correctly – Biden did advise Obama that he should wait for a better opportunity.

    Who cares?  Biden was ACTIVELY INVOLVED and was TRYING TO SERVE SOMEONE OTHER THAN HIMSELF.  Two things trumpov could never do, or even comprehend.

  26. 26.

    Mary G

    Love Mr. Kamala:

    My only thought watching this nonsense: I’m going to run through walls for @JoeBiden to help him and Kamala get elected. Join me. Enough is enough.— Doug Emhoff (@DouglasEmhoff) August 28, 2020

    That’s a real man.

  27. 27.

    Jeffro

    @Mary G: I foolishly turned it on for 10 minutes and heard at least 20 lies, so it’s off now.

    I am wishing things on him and his family that they fully deserve, but might not be my absolute best self.  Whatever.  I’ll sleep just fine tonight regardless.

  33. 33.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    twitter says he’s losing the thread on the teleprompter, getting distracted, and he’s a little more than halfway through

  34. 34.

    Leto

    Claiming that Dems will abort 9 month old babies. Now saying under god was removed from the pledge of allegiance during the Dem convention. Just fucking… fuck I hate him.

  36. 36.

    There's no such thing as a good Republican

    I used to semi-jokingly lay odds on whether Mr. Trump and Ivanka were fucking.  I don’t think there’s a need to joke any more; the matter is determined.

  38. 38.

    Elizabelle

    It’s fun to lip read.

    He isn’t making any more sense than he probably is with the sound on.

  41. 41.

    Leto

    Someone should have let me know it was Festivus, and it was the airing of grievances. Sadly it’s just the same old bullshit. Him trying to pronounce words in Spanish… he can barely do English. And now Ann Dowd is trying to comfort these people.

  44. 44.

    mrmoshpotato

    @WaterGirl: BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    Glad I wasn’t actively eating while watching that. Death by sub is not how I want to go.

    ETA – I hope all this trash starts shiving each other at Biden’s inauguration.  Just start the second they know they’re all going to die in prison or be hanged!

    ETA2 – “You’re not my real mom!”

  45. 45.

    TS (the original)

    That he needs an audience and adulation, says so much about Joe and Kamala who gave speeches full of hope and meaning to an empty room & came out way on top of anything said for the past 4 days.

    If he hasn’t lost 100% of any wavering voters after this illegal disgusting event – they were never wavering to begin with.

  46. 46.

    gene108

    @Edmund Dantes:

    Wait. Biden opposed the effort to take out osama bin laden? Huh?

    VP Biden would not have approved the raid that killed Osama, when Obama authorized it. Biden advised more caution, before launching the raid because of all the problems a botched attempt would cause.

    We did lose one of the helicopters, after all. More things could have gone wrong. Biden worried about that.

  47. 47.

    Peale

    @Leto: I’m so glad I’m not watching this. I’m having a tough enough time keeping my zest for life at the moment. I’m afraid I’ll Join Mr. Kamala in that running through walls business. But I live on the 5th floor and that’s probably not a good idea.

  49. 49.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Tom Nichols @RadioFreeTom 33s
    He’s off script again and he’s getting lost and he struggling with his denture or his plate or whatever that is in his mouth that makes him do this

    I’m almost tempted to look but Aaron Rupar or somebody will make a clip if it’s worth seeing

  51. 51.

    jl

    Coming out of my hibernation from this mess, a little early.

    Not sure what happened in the video, but at least we know Melania can show emotion

    Edit: but sure as hell not within ear or eye distance of Trump’s acceptance speech.

  57. 57.

    WaterGirl

    @mrmoshpotato: If you watched it from within the BJ tweet, you really have to click on the twitter bird to watch it in twitter, where it’s bigger.

    In the bigger version, even the first “smile” was terrible, and the big drop-off was still awesome.

  60. 60.

    Robmassing

    No one cares about Biden’s advice on Bin Laden. I know this because people cared for about two weeks after Obama got him, and then we went right back to arguing about whether Obama was a Muslim Kenyan socialist.

  64. 64.

    Leto

    @Yutsano: You can only be so old, so fat, and so demented, for so long, before it all catches up. Remember when presidents released the annuals? Good times, good times.

    Recycled “spied on my campaign”… JFC…

  65. 65.

    HumboldtBlue

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Yup and one of the better ads out today was the father of a Marine killed in a needless mission to Yemen and called Trump out for doing it at a dinner table to impress guests.

  66. 66.

    gene108

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Joe was one of many people honestly advising President Obama that day on what he thought was best.

    From what I read Obama wanted a list of pro’s and con’s. Joe gave him the con’s.

    And, Joe probably does have a much stronger memory of the fallout from Desert One, than many other people in politics today.

  71. 71.

    West of the Rockies

    With all sincerity, I believe Melania must be utterly miserable and desolate as ash.  I hope the gold toilets are worth it.

  74. 74.

    Keith P.

    I am eagerly waiting for some Ivanka excerpts from the new Melania bio coming out next week.

  78. 78.

    Leto

    @gene108:

    fallout from Desert One

    I thought about that too, that the mission might have gone that way. Eternally glad that it didn’t. Also I’m glad Obama had people around him who didn’t just, “KILL’EM ALL! GOGOGO!” and would give him honest/sanguine advice.

  80. 80.

    Elie

    @Elizabelle:

    You got it!  I’m so surprised that this has not been stated more.  This set design and the other at that auditorium is pure third reich.  Also Melania s green military outfit for her speech the other night. They are full frontal fascist using every prop to support that message

  81. 81.

    Leto

    @Yutsano: I’ve been flipping between the shitshow and House Hunters. At commercial, I flip over to see whatever he’s blabbering about. Don’t feel like I’m missing anything. He’s starting to sweat. Hope his pancake doesn’t run…

  82. 82.

    Jeffro

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

     

    @Robmassing:

    I care that Obama thought enough about Joe’s opinion to hear it and consider it thoughtfully, before making one of the hardest calls a president has to make.  I have no doubt that Joe can walk a debate audience through the whole process and why he advised PBO not to give the green light.  I also have no doubt that both men know that these kinds of things are crap shoots, and that it’s great that it turned out well, and that they both stand by their calls.

    It’s called experience, wisdom, duty, and integrity.  trumpov wouldn’t begin to understand a word of it.  So I hope Biden doesn’t run away from it or even stress about it for a moment.  Everyone who’s already with him will stay with him, and a few folks might even come to understand him as a decent and responsible man who’ll make a great CINC.

  84. 84.

    Quinerly

    @Elizabelle: Captain Dorn’s wife who gave the speech earlier. I suspect those are her sons. Not his. The dead Captain’s daughters have been very outspoken here in St. Louis that their father was not a Trump supporter. That their stepmother was, before his death. The stepmother is a police sergeant (maybe retired now. Not sure). I posted an article upstairs from our great St Louis American.

  88. 88.

    Elizabelle

    Tee hee.  Am sure you all discussed this earlier.  Headline in Politico:

    Biden snags ‘Keep America Great’ domain in latest act of Trump trolling
    The Democrat’s campaign recently learned the web domain was available and snagged it.

  89. 89.

    Jeffro

    Klobuchar just brought the big stick on Twitter: “Get off our lawn”

    YIKES

    Between her and Duckworth launching broadsides like that, it’s reassuring.  =)

  93. 93.

    mrmoshpotato

    @WaterGirl: Thanks for the tip, but I’ve seen enough of the gold-digging birther bitch for the night.

    Gonna continue reading the comments and watching this Aussie plumber make a mess of the street.  Can he get 3 jetting hoses struck?  We’ll see!

  96. 96.

    randy khan

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    astonishing revelation

    Really, it’s probably just another lie, so it’s likely neither astonishing nor a revelation.  After all, much of Fahrenthold’s reporting is based on information in public records.

  104. 104.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Jesus.

    Annie Oakley, Davy Crockett, Wyatt Earp, and Buffalo Bill.

    Why not Zorro and Gabby Hayes and Hopalong Cassidy while you’re at it?

  106. 106.

    Sally

    @mad citizen: I agree with you on Melanie’s accent. If she were a lower income private citizen, the accent is fine. But, she is third lady of the US, a very public, at least until now, figure. When trump decided to run, or at least when he “won”, she should have embarked on an  English speaking program with a good voice coach. As a matter of courtesy to the people. But she couldn’t be bothered. Mary of Denmark, when she married Fred, studied conscientiously to learn Danish, still with an accent but very acceptable. She speaks beautifully in her peoples’ native language. Mel has been living in an English speaking country for about thirty years and this is the best she can do? I don’t believe she speaks five languages judging by her English. I learnt French, German and Russian (ha), and after living in the countries again for a few weeks I stumble along in those languages at least as well as Mel. I speak French with an understandable accent, but my German, I am told is excellent. I work at it. That’s the difference. It’s a matter of respect.

  111. 111.

    Steeplejack

    @opiejeanne:

    Dunno if this makes any difference, but I was going to suggest not going through the Twitter app, just use your browser to navigate to that page. (Which is how I do all my reading on Twitter.)

  114. 114.

    Steeplejack

    Well, that was may more of an ordeal than I thought it was going to be. I feel like I got second-hand soul damage.

  116. 116.

    randy khan

    Did the speech just end?  I hear fireworks in the distance. (I’m about 10 miles away from the White House as the crow flies.)

  124. 124.

    Elizabelle

    Fireworks.

    Weird.

    He might be reminding DC area residents that they did not get a July 4th this year.

    But nothing denied for the Republican convention.

    Anyway, it’s an impressive display.  Music sucks.

  128. 128.

    gene108

    @Quinerly:

    From your link:

    Stephanie, who worked for Vogue and helped planned the prestigious Met Ball in New York City for around a decade, first met Melania when she was dating Donald in 2003.

    She started working for Trump’s administration in 2016 where she helped plan his inauguration and became Melania’s trusted adviser.

    The friends fell out after Stephanie was blamed for financial irregularities to do with the inauguration and Melania “stood by her man… a betrayal which nearly destroyed” Stephanie, according to the book’s description.

    The description adds: “In this candid and emotional memoir, Stephanie Winston Wolkoff takes you into Trump Tower and the White House to tell the funny, thrilling, and heartbreaking story of her intimate friendship with one of the most famous women in the world, a woman few people truly understand.”

    So Stephanie got in trouble following their orders, and the Trumps dumped her a like a used Kleenex.

  131. 131.

    Martin

    @gene108: One of the more interesting fallouts was the V-22 Osprey.

    Much of the problem with Desert One was that it was reliant on helicopters hop-scotching with refueling support to an impromptu base  built in the Iranian desert. Half of the helicopters failed for a variety of reasons, but dealing poorly with sandy air was a major component of them.

    So they came up with this plan for a tilt-rotor plane that could do the job instead – fly in with the range of a plane and land in a limited space like a heli, but with some cargo capability unlike a VTOL jet.

    So they came up with the Osprey, which has the following benefits:

    1. Can’t carry shit
    2. Crashes due to sandy air
    3. Is unstable during a fast descent and crashes
    4. Is really difficult to midair refuel because it’s simultaneously really slow and because the rotors have such large intake pressure that it really likes sucking in refueling hoses.

    So basically they wound up with a plane that is worse than all of the things they used during Desert One and almost certainly couldn’t have pulled off the mission if we had it available.

    It was such a dumb idea that even Cheney tried to kill it.

  137. 137.

    mad citizen

    @Sally: I’m always impressed by people like you who are multilingual, including Melania.  But you captured my thoughts; put some work in and show some respect.   I think the 5 language claim has been thoroughly debunked.  There was a twitter thread yesterday where a CO congresswoman made the claim, and the amount of pushback with examples was immense.  She speaks her native language and english.

  138. 138.

    Martin

    @WaterGirl: Oh yeah, totally. I always got the sense that Liberty’s rules were perfectly designed for some administrator to be grooming students.

  139. 139.

    Elizabelle

    Ave Maria.

    Christopher Macchio has a beautiful voice.  I am sorry it is deployed on such an occasion.

    But I love thinking of all those Republicans being held hostage even longer.

    3 encores, Christopher!

  147. 147.

    NotMax

    @Martin

    Also too:

    Cost overruns plagued the V-22’s development. The development budget in 1986 was $2.5 billion. It was increased to $30 billion in 1988. In 2001, the V-22 squadron’s commander, Marine Corps Lt. Col. Odin Lieberman, was relieved of duty after allegations that he ordered his unit to falsify maintenance records to make the aircraft appear more reliable. Three other officers were also implicated.

    There were numerous safety concerns as well. During testing from 1991-2000, V-22 aircraft crashed seven times, resulting in 36 deaths. The V-22 was grounded after each crash while improvements were made. The Pentagon declared the Osprey “operationally suitable” in September 2005 and called for full production. Source

  149. 149.

    Steeplejack

    Rachel, Joy and Nicolle making the good point that Trump’s audience was not only packed in like sardines but was yelling and cheering for over an hour. That’s church-choir levels of COVID exposure.

    My mantra now: super spreader event! ?

    This is making me a little bit optimistic.

  153. 153.

    ET

    That was a hell of a noisy fireworks that just finished at 11:30 at night that I could hear where I live near RFK. God I hate him.

  155. 155.

    NoraLenderbee

    Seriously, you are criticizing someone for having a heavy accent? What’s next, telling her to go back where she came from?

  156. 156.

    Yutsano

    This just supports my theory that Russian bots are taking over long dead accounts from legitimate Twitter users and using them to hide. It’s insidious. Just like the Federation.

    Oops. Sorry. Carry on people.

  157. 157.

    mad citizen

    @dnfree: I stopped watching it, or rather our local fox news cut right in after trumpov.  Wonder if this song is not on the Do not play list without permission.  If Cohen’s family owns it I can’t imagine they are pleased.  Also, great song but way overused it’s a cliche now.

  159. 159.

    Quinerly

    @Elizabelle: threw him down and blew him. You can better believe there were more. The kid was their son’s band mate. Gotta wonder about his instrument. ?

  160. 160.

    opiejeanne

    @Steeplejack: I have a Twitter account, and it was working perfectly on the computer just a couple of hours ago. The iPhone went straight to the site.

    And now Twitter is loading again, but any videos or images are taking forever to load. Lots of big squares of black.

  165. 165.

    mad citizen

    @NoraLenderbee: Yes, I am.  She could and should have learned how to speak more like 99% of her fellow citizens, since she is married to the leader of our nation.

  166. 166.

    Elizabelle

    @WaterGirl:   Macchio did “Hallelujah”.  Very well, but … Leonard Cohen would not like it used in that setting.  For that orange wannabe.

  173. 173.

    Edmund Dantes

    So anyone is allowed to rent out the Washington monument for a fireworks show?

    there needs to be consequences for all big and small law breaking.

  177. 177.

    Doug R

    @Jeffro:

     

    I think – if I remember correctly – Biden did advise Obama that he should wait for a better opportunity.

    Who cares? Biden was ACTIVELY INVOLVED and was TRYING TO SERVE SOMEONE OTHER THAN HIMSELF. Two things trumpov could never do, or even comprehend.

    They weren’t 100% sure Bin Laden was there, sending a Seal Team was a risk, riskier than a cruise missile or drone strike. Sending the Seals meant a confirmation and they were able to collect valuable data.
    That’s why they were followed with a regular Blackhawk and a Chinook, note the stealth Blackhawk crash landed-probably got in its own prop wash and couldn’t recover, especially with the mods that would also affect its flight controls.

  181. 181.

    TaMara (HFG)

    As someone whose grandparents were immigrants, I’m appalled that of all the criticisms that can be laid at the feet of the Third Wife, people are choosing to criticize her accent? I’m ashamed for you.

    My grandparents had beautiful accents after living here most of their adult lives. I miss hearing them.  My neighborhood is filled with beautiful accents from many different countries, of hardworking folks living in and loving the United States.

  183. 183.

    Quinerly

    @prostratedragon: I seem to recall that now that you mentioned it. I’m flashing on my mom saying that. She loathed Kissinger. This was during the period before his marriage… He was considered a lady’s man… My mom kept up with all that Beltway gossip. I think he dated Barbara Walter’s briefly…after she dated Ed Brook… But I digress….

  185. 185.

    Elizabelle

    @WaterGirl:   That’s hilarious.

    I like the COVID virus dress just as much as naked Melania.

    Didn’t people have fun with QE2’s green dress recently, too?  I can’t recall what they put up, but it brings out creativity ….

  186. 186.

    NoraLenderbee

    @mad citizen: Your comment is despicable. It’s abhorrent to demean someone because of their accent–especially since she DOES in fact speak English perfectly understandably. We don’t have an official approved accent in this country. And I’m quite sure more than 1% of US residents have a first language other than English and speak with accents.

    …

    Oh wait, did I just eat sea lion chow?

  187. 187.

    Aleta

    The overwhelming majority of guests were not administered rapid coronavirus tests, Trump campaign and convention officials said, despite their relative proximity to the president and other White House officials. A White House official said it was logistically unfeasible to test such a large number of people.

    Two attendees said in interviews that they were not offered tests and were not even put through a more basic screening, such as being questioned whether they had any symptoms, such as coughs, or taking their temperature. They spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk frankly.

  189. 189.

    RaflW

    @Leto: The thing I wonder, and I guess we won’t know for a while, because a cavalcade of shit-takes will have to be written by pundits, and spouted on the endless TV nooz, but does saying such outrageous and obvious bullshit like the 9 month abortion lie in front of the freaking White House, tramped up with those hug Trump signs piss off more people than it motivates.

    I’m sort of frightened of the answer. And it won’t really be known till after Nov 3.

  190. 190.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @mad citizen:

    On those occasions when I’ve been asked how many language I speak, my response has been “I’ve studied Latin, French, German, Italian, and Hebrew. I speak English.”

  192. 192.

    Yutsano

    @Doug R:  I thought the one Blackhawk was sacrificed as a distraction outside. No one died or was injured in that crash. Then again it’s not like the military would need to tell the whole truth there.

  193. 193.

    WaterGirl

    @Elizabelle: I think Melania wouldn’t care about the COVID dress.  But I think she will be humiliated, which pleases me, and as I said above, I think Trump probably despises Melania for not looking like that anymore, so I think this will not be helpful for them.  Which works for me

    edit: I’m mostly furious because if Michelle Obama had posed nude it would have been the end of the world.

  194. 194.

    RaflW

    @TaMara (HFG): Bravo. thank you.

    I will fault Melania for her disgusting choice of that “I don’t care” jacket when visiting immigrant refugee kids, and plenty of other maliciousness. But her accent, that ain’t the problem.

  196. 196.

    Fair Economist

    It says something about Melania’s soul that she can express such disgust and disdain with a face paralyzed by Botox.

  197. 197.

    Yutsano

    @TaMara (HFG):  Jesu Christe! I have a fucking accent! I learned how to speak in Virginia and South Carolina. It doesn’t make either of us less American. It’s part of the tapestry that makes up our country. I love hearing speech from someone whose first language isn’t English. It gives a spark to our boring and difficult tongue.

  198. 198.

    Aleta

    1500 people, conservative estimate of 1% w/ covid, so 15+ carriers.  Chairs close together side by side and front to back.  “Everybody, sing with me !!” and some cheering.  Humid.

  202. 202.

    Leto

    @RaflW: Idk. It wasn’t meant for us, that message. But I hope we throw their asses out Nov 3.

     

    @Yutsano:

     

    As they hovered above the target the first helicopter experienced a hazardous airflow condition known as a vortex ring state. This was aggravated by higher than expected air temperature[55][73] and the high compound walls, which stopped the rotor downwash from diffusing.[73][82][83] The helicopter’s tail grazed one of the compound’s walls,[84] damaging its tail rotor,[85] and the helicopter rolled onto its side.[22] The pilot quickly buried the helicopter’s nose to keep it from tipping over.[74] None of the SEALs, crew, or pilots on the helicopter were seriously injured in the soft crash landing, which ended with it pitched at a 45-degree angle resting against the wall.[55] The other helicopter landed outside the compound and the SEALs scaled the walls to get inside.[86] The SEALs advanced into the house, breaching walls and doors with explosives.[74]

    Just a quick note, but a number of the things that Martin noted as “bad” with the CV/MV-22 are all right here in this crash. With a Blackhawk, using the latest in technology.

  206. 206.

    Sally

    @mad citizen: Oh please don’t be impressed, at least by me. It’s like learning anything, it’s just effort and practice. Melanie couldn’t be bothered, like all of them, she is so lazy. She could have retained a charming but intelligible accent, with a little effort. Especially while living in the country of the language she was learning, which I hadn’t done.  I was thinking about this because apparently Bette M copped a lot of flak the other day when she criticised Mel’s accent on Twitter. And it is just one of the few things I can get upset about that isn’t, you know, desperately life and death!

  209. 209.

    Brachiator

    @TaMara (HFG):

    As someone whose grandparents were immigrants, I’m appalled that of all the criticisms that can be laid at the feet of the Third Wife, people are choosing to criticize her accent? I’m ashamed for you.

    Totally agree. Well said. Thank you.

    ETA: I also want to give a thank you to everyone who watched any of the Republican Convention.  I just couldn’t do it.

    As I noted in an earlier thread, I will be curious to read about voter reaction and to see how the convention affects polling, but all the comments seem to confirm my feelings before this thing started that there would be nothing of value in the proceedings.

    I hope some GOP lackey turns off the dumpster fire and lets everyone go home.

  211. 211.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I didn’t watch, but it looks like Ivanka plagiarized herself with a story that wasn’t true in the first place

    Andrea Bernstein @AndreaWNYC 2h
    OMG, Ivanka is telling a story about her son Joseph building a lego model of the White House. She told the same story about herself once, building a lego Trump Tower. The story was made up.

  215. 215.

    Elizabelle

    Please keep it coming with the Melania greenscreen dress shots.

    I see she is now dressed like a Cheetos bag, too.

  217. 217.

    mrmoshpotato

    @WaterGirl:

    edit: I’m mostly furious because if Michelle Obama had posed nude it would have been the end of the world. 

    A sleeveless dress made the Rethuglicans almost burn DC down to the Earth’s mantle.

  219. 219.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Leto: Choppers are dangerous beasts.  And one my classmates at OCS was a warrant officer Huey pilot who insisted that when they went to the funeral of the last Blackhawk, everyone would fly home in a Huey.  We also had another CW3 in the class who was a special ops Chinook jockey who claimed that he had been one of the stand-by pilots for Desert One – he wasn’t much of a bullshitter, so I don’t doubt him.  Weird dudes.

  221. 221.

    opiejeanne

    @Sally: meh. All of you non-Californians have accents, except for Iowans. Mostly.
    heck, I should have said all you non- Southern Californians, because NorCal people have a little accent. I never noticed it until we moved to the SF Bay Area.

    I’m joking, except about the people from NorCal.

  223. 223.

    Shakti

    @Sally: Who knows? All I know is that she plagiarized a speech written for Michelle Obama.

    I guess her accent and her little grammar errors don’t matter because she’s white and a former model.  If Columba Bush, for example, spoke that badly, she’d have been barbequed.

    She can speak like Natasha Fatale and nobody says shit to her lying birther face. Must be nice.

  224. 224.

    dww44

    @Steeplejack: Midmorning we got word via email that a cousin in our large extended family had suddenly succumbed to Covid.  He became ill about 10 days ago, tested negative for Covid, but his Doctor told him he had the classic symptoms. He did not know how he  contracted covid, but he and wife did attend services at the small country Baptist church they were members of. His doctor told him he would have been better off going to a bar.

    After 3 or 4 days he seemed to be getting better and many extended family members spoke with him.  He told each that the virus was not something to play around with.  That he wouldn’t wish it on his worst enemy.  Evidently the last 2 nights were especially bad,  so that early a.m. he and wife decided he needed to go to a hospital for help. He sat up in bed and she turned to get his clothes and suddenly he fell back on the bed dead.  She, of course, is distraught.  Interestingly, he was never hospitalized.  Small rural red state county and hospitals were miles away. Though a diabetic (adult onset), he had been managing the disease.

    Earlier tonight I was at a 25 member in person board meeting.  All wore masks and sat in chairs that were socially distanced.  To see the video from tonight’s RNC is just anger inducing.  The unmitigated gall of Trump and his family and his minions.  Unlike my cousin, the event becoming a super spreader for the virus would be poetic justice.

  229. 229.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    TV Ratings: Republican Convention Declines Sharply on Night 3
    The 15.7 million viewers Wednesday.

    Last week’s Democratic convention brought in 21.46 million viewers on its third night.

     

    Six million fewer viewers. HA!

    If you have a convention and no one is watching did it make a sound?

  232. 232.

    Doug R

    @Yutsano: Apparently they practiced in an area fenced off with chain link to the dimensions on the satellite photo. Except air flows through chain link, but not the wall in the compound. So they ran into prop wash sooner and being a modified aircraft, had less leeway with recovery.

  233. 233.

    prostratedragon

    @Sally:  Heh, “charming but intelligible.” That’s my objective when trying to speak or say words in another language –picking the nicer sounds in English when I can’t quite get the correct ones.

    [From elsewhere], unlike many immigrants who were very hardworking, had families, and I might add usually learned decent idiomatic English over time, she has had the resources to improve had she really cared to–

    —assuming her husband wouldn’t have sabotaged her, that is. He does, after all like the uneducated, and he has, after all, made no attempt himself to acquire the patina of civility or conventional culture that wealthy people often try to project, I suppose since it would mean he’d have to admit he doesn’t already know something.

  234. 234.

    Leto

    @Omnes Omnibus: They definitely are. Gen 1 aircraft are also dangerous beasts as their operating characteristics are still being found, typically in lethal ways. Honestly most of what Martin said is just wrong, but whatever.

  235. 235.

    Jay Noble

    Melania’s accent problem probably stems from her speaking Slovenian way more than English due to her parents being around nearly constantly since she married Trump. Barron is said to speak Slovenian to his grand parents. It’s hard to keep up a language when you have a more comfortable one easily at hand.

    I believe she was “fluent” at one time by high school standards in the other 3 languages. Past English and Slovenian, they were required to take at least 1 if not 2 more languages. Oddly, Russian was not often one of the choices offered. Languages fade without usage.

  237. 237.

    Mary G

    Wow. Even lost Brit Hume, brown noser supreme:

    “Surprising flat” and “didn’t seem to have the bite that he usually does have in his speeches,” Fox News’ Chris Wallace says in panning Trump’s RNC address. “Chris has a point,” Brit Hume added. “The speech was very long.”— Christopher Cadelago (@ccadelago) August 28, 2020

  238. 238.

    sdhays

    @Sally: The third lady is definitely a piece of shit, but I would suggest not judging people on their accent. Some people have a knack for picking out the subtleties of a new language and others don’t, just like some have some musical talent and some don’t. It’s not a character flaw. She already has plenty of those.

  240. 240.

    Another Scott

    @Aleta: It’s their live performance of Poe’s The Masque of the Red Death, isn’t it??

    Donnie wants everyone else to catch it.

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  241. 241.

    Brachiator

    @opiejeanne:

    heck, I should have said all you non- Southern Californians, because NorCal people have a little accent. I never noticed it until we moved to the SF Bay Area.

    I had to go to the dentist earlier this week. West Hollywood area. While sitting in the chair between procedures, I overheard this woman talking to someone.  She had that affected California accent that has been parodied on Saturday Night Live skits.

    I really didn’t think that many adults spoke that way. It was sad and funny…

    @Shakti:

    I guess her accent and her little grammar errors don’t matter because she’s white and a former model.

    No. Her accent and little grammar errors don’t matter because this shit does not fucking matter!

  242. 242.

    Doug R

    @opiejeanne:

     

    meh. All of you non-Californians have accents, except for Iowans. Mostly.
    heck, I should have said all you non- Southern Californians, because NorCal people have a little accent. I never noticed it until we moved to the SF Bay Area.

    I’m joking, except about the people from NorCal.

    There’s aboot a million Canadians living in greater Los Angeles. Plus all the shows they shoot in Canada. That flat accent is easy to understand, eh.

  243. 243.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @opiejeanne: Angelos have a slight accent as well. My references to “the 101” hella give me away up here in NorCal.

    @Brachiator: Back when I lived in LA, I knew folks who still spoke with the Valley Girl accent or the Jeff Spicoli stoner/surfer dude accent. The stereotypes have a bit of truth in them.

  245. 245.

    Kent

    Stumbled across this interesting little factoid:

    Evangelical churches loosing members to Q-Anon

    https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/08/27/pastors-are-losing-church-members-to-qanon-swapping-one-myth-for-another/

    The QAnon conspiracy theory has emerged as a powerful cultish force within the Republican Party, and while there’s no polling that shows it, many QAnon followers are people who regularly attend church. In a really eye-opening piece by Abby Ohlheiser in the MIT Technology Review, she speaks with pastors who have essentially lost members who went down that rabbit hole. It didn’t help that the pandemic forced more regular churchgoers to view services online, meaning they were spending more time than usual on social media, with algorithms directing them to ever-more-insane places.

    One pastor said it reminded him of the “Satanic Panic” from the 1980s — another completely ridiculous accusation that took hold of evangelicals unable to think critically about what they were hearing.

    Before the pandemic, [Pastor Clark] Frailey knew a little bit about QAnon, but he hadn’t given such an easily debunked fringe theory much of his time. The posts he started seeing felt familiar, though: they reminded him of the “Satanic panic” of the 1980s and 1990s, when rumors of secret occult rituals tormenting children in day-care centers spread quickly among conservative religious believers who were already anxious about changes in family structures. “The pedophile stuff, the Satanic stuff, the eating babies—that’s all from the 1980s,” he says.

    That conspiracy-fueled frenzy was propelled in part by credulous mainstream news coverage, and by false accusations and even convictions of day-care owners. But evangelicals, in particular, embraced the claims, tuning in to a wave of televangelists who promised to help viewers spot secret satanic symbols and rituals in the secular world.

    Why is the connection between evangelicals and Q supporters so strong? Both overlap on their beliefs that liberals are bad, Trump is good, that believers are victims at the mercy of the powerful, and that a savior is there to rescue them.

  248. 248.

    opiejeanne

    @Brachiator: you mean Valley Girl? Some people in south Orange County have their own little accent, but I think it’s fairly recent development, and its practitioners seem to be a bit snobby about such things as area codes  I heard a grown woman make a disparaging remark about someone who is probably from xxx area code and not the 714  I laughed at her and informed her that that region originally had 714, when south county was still mostly fields and orange groves and was in the 619

    yes, some people affect that weirdness, and I suspect they are from some other state, think it makes them sound like a native.
    Stephen Colbert has a very neutral accent that he taught himself when he was young, maybe a teen. He sounds more like a native of SoCal than a lot of people who pretend to be

  249. 249.

    opiejeanne

    @Doug R: lol. They will swear they don’t say “about” or “eh” and other Canadians will say,”oh yes you do”.

  252. 252.

    Sally

    I really should let this accent controversy go. Just once more though. I think Mel’s accent is one more signifier of the contempt with which they all hold everyone else (even each other, it seems!). If I were the wife of the Head of State of a country whose language was not my native language, I would make the damned effort to speak well in the public appearances I would be required to make. Like Mary of Denmark. Because I would have respect for the office. And Mel has the time, the opportunity, the wealth and any and all other resources she needs to polish her English. It isn’t even I really don’t care, it’s a big F U. I remember when Theresa Kerry was criticised as being totally unacceptable as a First Lady because of her accent. One rule for them, another for us. So, I’ll stick by my criticism, but I am truly sorry that I have made some people ashamed. I think you are not understanding that I am not criticising anyone’s grandma or friend down the street, but the office holder of the First Lady of the United States.

  253. 253.

    Martin

    @Kent: Hmm. Boy, catch-22 that one. How do you train your congregation to not be gullible rubes while also ensuring they remain the right kind of gullible rubes?

  254. 254.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @sdhays: I’ve known a number of people who have lived here for decades and speak perfect idiomatic American English … with a heavy accent that’s at times almost incomprehensible.

    I’ve also heard it in the other direction, Americans who speak other languages a hell of a lot more fluently than I do, but with an American accent that’s like nails on a chalkboard.

    Just something about whether people hear or can adjust their own pronunciation or something.

  258. 258.

    Martin

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: My son had a doctor who was a Vietnamese immigrant and settled and sent to school in Texas. Vietnamese with Texas drawl is the funniest fucking thing you’ll ever hear in your life.

  259. 259.

    Calouste

    @Martin: 
    Yeah, the overlap between evangelicals and Qanonites is that they both don’t do critical thinking. If evangelicals did critical thinking they wouldn’t have voted for a twice-divorced adulterer who never goes to church.

  260. 260.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    Cool! Thanks for the link.

    I love accents. I’m going to start be seeing if they have Philadelphia. I’ve lived in the Philly area for 20 years and can immediately hear the local accent, it’s very identifiable. And yet I’ve spent 20 years trying to figure out what it is that makes it distinctive. It’s more than the word “wooder” (water)

  261. 261.

    Brachiator

    @Sally:

    I really should let this accent controversy go. Just once more though. I think Mel’s accent is one more signifier of the contempt with which they all hold everyone else (even each other, it seems!). If I were the wife of the Head of State of a country whose language was not my native language, I would make the damned effort to speak well in the public appearances I would be required to make.

    You’re right. You should let it go.

    This is the United States of America. We do not have an official national language. We do not require that a person speak English, or speak English in a certain way to establish or certify their legitimacy.

    And God knows Trump himself mangles the fucking language all the goddam time. If anyone needs to make an effort to communicate better, it’s him.

    ETA: It might be grammatically correct to say “it’s he” for the last bit. But that sounds stupid.

    Fight me.

  262. 262.

    opiejeanne

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: I’m not talking about the transplants, in m talking about people who say, “That band is on tore.” There are other little things I’ve forgotten because I moved back to SoCal 20 years ago, to the OC, and started hearing fine intonations, tiny rise and fall patterns, delicately different pronunciations that I hadn’t heard from Los Angeles county natives.
    Now I live in Western Washington and it’s almost a new language from the locals.

  263. 263.

    sdhays

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Exactly. I’ve had the same experience. And as far as I can tell, the third lady has at least as large a vocabulary as her husband. I fault her for being a horrible FLOTUS and just a shit person, but everyone has an accent.

  264. 264.

    Chetan Murthy

    There’s that saying I once learned from Jeeves & Wooster: “the rank is but the guinea stamp”.  And in this case, I think that people are glomming onto her atrocious Natasha accent, as a sort of “guinea stamp in reverse” for their loathing of her.  if it weren’t her accent, it’d be something else.  Anything else would do.  Something that would never bother us in a decent human being (honestly, even before the Apocalypse, when I would encounter a (usually Chinese) woman in a dim sum shop, who couldn’t speak a word of English, all I could think was: “Another immigrant!  The people who make California strong!”  And yet, when I hear The Third Lady babble on, I get *enraged*.

    It’s the same behaviour, but the -person-, is what makes it offensive.

    Lordy, I so want this to be over.  Then we only have decades of cleanup to do.  Oy.

  266. 266.

    piratedan

    would rather not worry about how she spoke, but would rather observe that she went out there and talked about Trump’s moral character to the American people and stating that he is a moral, ethical choice all while understanding that during the 2016 campaign, he paid a porn star to sleep with him and to used campaign cash (a violation of election law) to do it, then tried to cover it up and not pay for services rendered.

    so yeah, I could give a shit about the accent she used, I sit back and note what a cold calculating person she must be, to say all of that shit with a straight face (and the fact that very few of our political pundits said a goddamn thing about it).

  267. 267.

    Omnes Omnibus

    I am not going to criticize Melania for her English, her accent, or for posing nude.  I will criticize her for marrying Trump, promoting birtherism, and any anti-democratic, fascist shit she signs up for – including wrecking the Rose Garden.  Other’s mileage may vary.

  270. 270.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    @Jay Noble:

    I believe she was “fluent” at one time by high school standards in the other 3 languages. Past English and Slovenian, they were required to take at least 1 if not 2 more languages. Oddly, Russian was not often one of the choices offered. Languages fade without usage.

    I don’t believe a word of the story about her 5 languages, but the rest of what you say is true.

    Monsieur Colette and I went to Slovenia on our honeymoon, 24 years ago when it was still relatively little-visited by Americans. Menus were in Slovene and (usually) German, and sometimes in Italian. If there was a fourth language, it was French or Russian. Oddly, we saw no Hungarian although it’s supposedly one of the official languages. We never saw anything in English. I’m sure everything has changed now.

    It was an absolutely lovely and charming place and we’ve always meant to go back, but somehow never gotten around to it.

  272. 272.

    gwangung

    Remember…if they speak English with an accent, they probably speak more languages than most Americans.

    (And…I DETEST criticism of accents. Yes, I know. I’m oversensitive, coming from the Asian American community. But I STILL detest that kind of criticism).

  275. 275.

    Kent

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: Yeah, I don’t begrudge non-native speakers.

    Slovenia was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire so German and Hungarian would have been official languages during that time period but I expect the Hungarian dropped away long ago after WW1 when the empire was broken up and Hungary went it’s own way.

  277. 277.

    James E Powell

    @opiejeanne: 

    Southern California white people have a distinct accent and rhythm to my NE Ohio ears. It’s especially prominent in Orange County and the IE.

  279. 279.

    PJ

    @prostratedragon: Someone once asked Kissinger’s brother why he didn’t have an accent, and Henry did, when they came to the US at the same time.  “You have to understand,” the brother responded, “Henry never listens.”

  280. 280.

    Brachiator

    @opiejeanne:

    you mean Valley Girl? Some people in south Orange County have their own little accent, but I think it’s fairly recent development,

    It’s not quite Valley Girl, but a derivation of it. SNL nails it with their Californians skits. Some of this stuff has been around for a long time. There is an accent associated with the beach cities (Manhattan Beach, Redondo Beach), San Pedro has its own accent (influenced a bit by Serbian and Croatian immigrants).  A lot of this is subtle, and its importance ebbs and flows.

     

    and its practitioners seem to be a bit snobby about such things as area codes I heard a grown woman make a disparaging remark about someone who is probably from xxx area code and not the 714 I laughed at her and informed her that that region originally had 714, when south county was still mostly fields and orange groves and was in the 619

    Oh, the area code snobbery used to be a huge thing until they started running out of phone numbers and had to add new area codes.  And smartphones which could have any area code made such nonsense largely obsolete.

  281. 281.

    TriassicSands

    There is no vaccine on track to be ready by the end of the year.

    Not true. There is the scientific-medical timetable and there is Donald Trump’s “Hey, it doesn’t have to work or not have deadly side effects, it just has to be ready by October.” That way Trump can say, “I have done the impossible. No one believed it could be done, but I did it. I alone can produce a vaccine in record time.”

    Trump wants votes, not a cure or to save lives. The only thing better than a vaccine that would protect everyone would be a vaccine that killed only intelligent people. That would spare 100% of Republicans and make a significant cut in Democratic voters. Translation = Landslide for Trump on election day.

    Trump has successfully corrupted the CDC. No one who comes into contact with Trump in a working relationship can be trusted.

  286. 286.

    NotMax

    @Brachiator

    If I were given a magic wand with one charge that could eliminate either the verbal fry or anything Trump it would be a tough choice.

    ;)

  287. 287.

    PJ

    @Kent: German was the dominant language in “CisLeithania”, the Austrian part of the Empire, which included Slovenia.  In “TransLeithania” Hungarian dominated.  Nationalities were allowed to speak their native languages in schools and courts, but I doubt there were ever many native Hungarian speakers in Slovenia.

  288. 288.

    James E Powell

    @Brachiator:

    Oh, the area code snobbery used to be a huge thing until they started running out of phone numbers and had to add new area codes.

    I remember when the cell phone carriers started issuing 424 to the West Side instead of the fashionable 310 and the People’s Republic of Santa Monica lost their minds.

  293. 293.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    FWIW, San Francisco used to have the Mission Brogue, which sounded similar to a New York accent. But it’s long died out.

    The accent has died out, but not quite all of its former practitioners have. My husband’s late aunt knew DiFi when both were schoolgirls, and said she once had “such a strong Mission District accent!”

  297. 297.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @Sister Golden Bear: Oh God, I looked at the link, and yes, I pronounce “cot” and “caught” exactly the same. I was born and raised on the Peninsula.  Never knew I had an accent.   In my defense, most of the TV anchors sounded like me when I was a kid

    I have noticed how flat American English like mine sounds compared with a lot of other languages (Spanish, French, and German sounds are the ones I’m most familiar with). If you are in a crowd of people in Europe, the American English is easy to pick out.

  301. 301.

    Woodrow/asim

    We must be winning in a landslide, the way we’re focused on Melania Trump.

    Oh, we aren’t? We got work to do?

    Then focus on that. We so-called Progressives/Liberals/Democrats got a hell of a nerve, throwing crap at Melania, when she ain’t in the way of stopping Trump from hurting another innocent kid in detention, or failing to address COVID testing…or acknowledging that Black Lives Matter, and Policy must follow that Fact.

    Slut-shaming ain’t gonna get Trump outta office. Saying things about an accent that we’d never accept if it was someone in a cage, don’t get no votes.

    My Parents grew up with a slogan — Eyes on the Prize. And as much as they dragged a lot of these screwed-u ideas y’all wanna banter about as if we ain’t fighting for the damned soul of this Democracy? That’s a good slogan, to keep in mind.

  302. 302.

    NYCMT

    @Quinerly: Henry Kissinger’s father was my grandfather’s tutor in Erlangen and his mother a fourth cousin of my great-grandmother; my grandfather and mother visited Paula and Ludwig in their apartment on Fort Washington and Cabrini the shabbos Heinz married Nancy Maginnis in ’74, a week before Passover, because Paula and Ludwig did not attend that wedding.

    Mom says Henry Kissinger lost his accent when he went to George Washington High School and only began exaggerating it again when he was at Harvard.

  304. 304.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @mad citizen: Her heavy accent is unforgiveable.

    What’s “unforgivable” is that anyone with half a brain would make a comment that’s as egregiously stupid as it is nasty.

    Anyone who isn’t linguistically gifted, or doesn’t learn it thoroughly in childhood, is almost certain to have a noticeable accent in any tongue not his native one, no matter how hard they try to remove it. It has nothing to do with arrogance or stupidity.

    I had a coworker who came to the US in his early 30s from Crete to attend grad school. Even after 20+ years here married to a native USAn his accent was still thick as a slab of moussaka. When he’d drop by it would take me 20-30 seconds to make the mental shift necessary to understand him. But Manos – besides being a genuinely nice guy – had a PhD and CPA, and had probably forgotten more about English grammar & syntax than the flunkies on the telephone (who treated him like an idiot) had ever known.

    (Let they who have ears to hear, hear.)

  306. 306.

    SteverinoCT

    @Yutsano:

    I learned how to speak in Virginia and South Carolina.

    I worked with a woman who escaped East Germany, and married an Air Force guy stationed overseas. He was from Alabama. She spoke with a German-Southern accent: “Unt how are y’all?”

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