Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It is not hopeless, and we are not helpless.

Every decision we make has lots of baggage with it, known or unknown.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

Dear elected officials: Trump is temporary, dishonor is forever.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

If you thought you’d already seen people saying the stupidest things possible on the internet, prepare yourselves.

Text STOP to opt out of updates on war plans.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

The willow is too close to the house.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Lick the third rail, it tastes like chocolate!

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Since we are repeating ourselves, let me just say fuck that.

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

You are here: Home / Elections / Biden-Harris 2020 / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Good for Joe

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Good for Joe

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  3. 3.

    Eural Joiner

    Good morning everyone! Awake to head off to my first week back to virtual high school teaching – and it has certainly been interesting. I feel like I’m walking through mud, making slow progress but every step that should be easy takes so much effort. Everyone – teachers, students, parents, administrators, staff – is on a steep learning curve. But I really think that, whenever we do go back to a physical school environment, teaching will never be the same. Also, it’s very eerie sitting in my classroom, alone, going around campus, alone, hearing distant noises of other people working but having very little contact. I look out my window and see a beautiful campus I’ve come to love over 27 years of teaching here…and not a person in sight for hours at a time. Crazy world! Namaste :)

  7. 7.

    cmorenc

    Appearances like this by Biden help us mightily in moving past our existential dread there might be some possibility Trump could somehow pull off enough distracting, fear-mongering antics to squeak out re-election. Biden and Harris are perfectly suited to combat and contrast attractively well against the toxic bullshit Donnie and his valet Pence throw out, except to Trump’s hard-core base, of whom there simply aren’t enough to pull off a second electoral college squeaker.

  11. 11.

    Gin & Tonic

    On the good news front, just about three weeks after returning to the US, my son got a job offer yesterday, for something which meshes extremely closely with his education and experience. It was offered at the salary he requested, and in fact they wanted him to start today, but he said he’d start Tuesday. Almost exclusively remote/work-from-home, so he’ll still be living in my house for a while, but gainfully employed, so hopefully he can buy the beer from time to time.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    No one’s better than you, Joe, but you’re better than nobody

    I am better than Trump.

     

    ETA: And so is Joe.

  16. 16.

    raven

    I’ve had a guy working on my leg and foot and he’s got me trying to drink a gallon of water a day. I can do it but it really sucks because, as the ad says, “that’s all I was doing’!!! I went back to the Y to swim and the fellas are playing full blast hoops with little regard to any damn virus. I’m not sure that makes me feel better about the dingy locker room.

  17. 17.

    Baud

    I don’t like Morning Joe, but credit where it’s due, he has a COVID death toll chyron up on the screen.

  19. 19.

    raven

    Geeze, my facebook memory page popped up and I retired a year ago today and it was the 50th anniversary of coming home. Who knew what a suck ass year it would be?

  20. 20.

    Immanentize

    Happy Thursday, All.

    Let’s see, coffee is ready, it’s garbage day here, I have six hours of Zoomeetings, and the weekend cannot come quick enough.

    Which all adds up to:. BLECH!

  21. 21.

    mrmoshpotato

    And for the morning crowd.

    Here is a story about the time I got in trouble as a kid for repeatedly using the word “whorehouse.”— Andrew Farmer (@thatsajellyfish) September 1, 2020

  29. 29.

    raven

    @Gin & Tonic: Ugh, I like it but I get exactly the same problems with my quad and heel. It’s one reason I went back to the pool. I called the sport med doc and asked, since the PT failed, what he thought I should do next. He said maybe spine injections would help. I don’t think I’m interested so now I’m going to try real rest for a while and see where that gets me.

  33. 33.

    Immanentize

    @rikyrah: He’s doing well.  He is very happy in his dorm room, his suitemates are “OK.” He likes his classes which seem pretty cool, but they are all online. We had to get him a monitor because he uses a surface and he couldn’t zoom and take notes without a separate monitor (and cam).

    I sent him a package of a bunch of stuff he needed the other day and slipped in some madeleines I made. He was very happy about the treats. Typical student, I’d say.

  34. 34.

    Baud

    @SFAW:

    Joe’s pro-pant stance was clearly more popular with voters. But I’m proud that I did not compromise Democratic values for political expediency.

  36. 36.

    mrmoshpotato

    @raven:

    Geeze, my facebook memory page popped up and I retired a year ago today and it was the 50th anniversary of coming home. Who knew what a suck ass year it would be? 

    I’ve been thinking lately how lucky it was that this virus hit so late in Dump’s bastard presidency.  Imagine if this had happened at the end of 2017.

    (Yes, I know we still have to crush the fascist on November 3rd.)

  37. 37.

    Gin & Tonic

    @debbie: Yeah, I may not have been fully forthcoming – this opportunity has been in the works for a while, quite a bit longer than three weeks.

  39. 39.

    debbie

    @raven:

    I missed your injury; is this that fishing injury acting up? Have you looked online for stretching and strengthening exercises you can do on your own? After you rest it up a bit, they might help recovery.

  42. 42.

    Immanentize

    @raven: I see one of those posters occasionally and think — I should get one now to have ready when I decide it’s time to go.  The plan is like you — 70 — which is a decade away.  But one never knows…

  46. 46.

    John S.

    There’s an old legal aphorism that goes:

    If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.

    All Trump does is pound the table. Biden is going to pound the facts and the law. Let’s hope the jury (voters) are persuaded by the latter and render the appropriate verdict.

  53. 53.

    raven

    @debbie: Oh it’s way beyond that. It’s not really an injury, at least not some identifiable trauma. I’ve had issues walking more than a mile without my foot/ankle weakening significantly. I went to a sports med doc right before the virus hit and the MRI showed nothing. In July I started PT and, after 8 sessions, the dude said he wasn’t helping so we stopped. I have a friend who moved back from LA and he’s a really good massage therapist and he’s been working me over with little result. I worry that it’s related to my stroke 2 years ago but the info on peripheral neuropathy don’t seem to connect so I’m at a loss. I do all kinds of stretching too.

  55. 55.

    NotMax

    Interesting find on Prime, Red Line (original title Rédl), a Czech four episode TV series.

    Criminal conspiracy during a time of snowballing political change, Densely plotted, intensely presented.

  59. 59.

    Betty Cracker

    We have a rarely used half-bathroom with a pocket door, and for some reason, the dogs recently decided to annex it as their…office or something? They figured out how to open the door, and they hang out in there most of the day.

    I can’t figure out why they’ve suddenly glommed onto that room. It’s tiny. They both curl up on the bathmat, which doesn’t seem like it would be as comfortable as the well-padded dog beds they could be sleeping on, or the sofa, which is their preferred evening hang-out.

    The only explanation I can think of is that the room tends to be a few degrees warmer than the rest of the house. The previous owners added that room, and it doesn’t have an A/C vent.

  60. 60.

    zhena gogolia

    @Eural Joiner:

    It’s very weird. Yesterday I felt as if I and a single young German professor were lady and lord of a large manor house that used to be teeming with guests and servants but was now echoing and empty, with only the two of us on the top floor, separated into two distant offices with the doors closed. Next week there will be in-person classes, so it will be different, but so strange and eerie. I hate to say it, but I kind of like it.

  61. 61.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Gin & Tonic:  Despite of my best efforts, neither of my sons are perfect either. And yes, “despite” is sometimes interchangeable with “because.”

  64. 64.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Immanentize: Pissing off my fellow Miserians is one job I enjoy immensely.

    ETA: I also have the latest unemployment numbers there, just so everyone knows how the greatest economy in the history of economies is doing. Underneath both is:

    “So. Much. Winning.”

  70. 70.

    debbie

    @raven:

    IANAD, but years ago, when I had plenty of issues with my back and legs, my MRI looked perfectly fine. If you’re dealing with muscle weakness, you might want to think about a neurologist or rheumatologist. Those were the specialties that helped me the most.

  72. 72.

    Patricia Kayden

    A majority of Republicans believed in birtherism.A majority of them now believe in QAnon. At what point do we acknowledge we have a serious problem here which goes way beyond politics & partisan divides? Oh, and what would you say if you saw these trends in another country?— Mehdi Hasan (@mehdirhasan) September 3, 2020

  74. 74.

    JPL

    @Immanentize: fyi CNN has had on the president of Rice University on their plans to keep students and faculty safe.   Little Imma is in good hands, and before you know it Thanksgiving will be here.

  80. 80.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: In Weld’s defense, he did run around frantically the last week before the election endorsing the hell out of Clinton. Too little too late, but he at least made an effort, unlike his running mate or Jill Stein.

  81. 81.

    Immanentize

    @JPL: You cannot know how much I have been relieved by the Rice efforts.  They have a lot going for them — horizontal campus, large outdoor spaces and lots of resources.  The last one counts the most.  They are taking the sting out of launching the Immp and out of paying that tuition.  :-)

  85. 85.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Baud:

    But he didn’t drop out.  He could have done more. 

    Johnson/Weld not running in the first place would’ve been a good start.

  86. 86.

    Betty Cracker

    @Immanentize: I love that theory, and I can definitely imagine the elders of the Bush clan busting such a move to preserve the family dynasty in Republican politics. George II’s heresy wouldn’t necessarily hurt George III with Texas Republicans since the latter is a confirmed Trumper. Maybe they’re playing the long game.

  88. 88.

    Immanentize

    Just FYI y’all.  This somehow feels like a normal before-Covid morning thread.  More neighborly, less agitated and angry.  And for that, I thank each of you.

  89. 89.

    Butter Emails

    @Baud: 

    Not sure what his dropping out would have done. He and Johnson still would have been listed on the ballots. Plus, he like most of us probably thought Hillary had it right up until the last honest man in Washington dropped his turd into the punch bowl in late October.

  93. 93.

    Immanentize

    @Betty Cracker: I really think Obama and Biden (and Michele and Jill) have won over W and Laura by just being kind.  And I am pretty certain Bush cannot abide Trump.    It would be a great statement to have all living former Presidents support Biden.

  97. 97.

    Betty Cracker

    @Immanentize: Agreed. If every living person who has held the job came out and said Trump isn’t up to it but Biden is, that would be a powerful statement.

  99. 99.

    Mai naem mobile

    @Immanentize: there is no way the Bush family sacrifices Bush Pee’s political future by having Dubbya endorse Biden. He called around to get votes for Kavanaugh and he’s working on getting Collins reelected.

  102. 102.

    Betty Cracker

    Election Day is exactly two months from today. Election Day 2016 seems like at least 10 years ago, possibly 20. Will time stop telescoping into hellish infinity after Trump is gone?

  103. 103.

    Jeffro

    @Baud:

    The impact of this unprecedented campaign by members of a political party to oppose one of their own running for re-election as president remains to be seen. Polls show that Trump still enjoys nearly 90 percent approval among the Republican rank and file.

    Other anti-Trump groups include 43 Alumni for Biden, comprised of hundreds of officials who worked for Bush, the 43rd president; Former Republican National Security Officials for Biden; and The Lincoln Project, founded by Republican political operatives.

    Biden & Co should run a ‘Star Wars opening crawl’ type ad with a list of all these “__________ for Biden” groups.  It’s getting kinda long.

  104. 104.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Immanentize:

    A couple of days ago, I spent a solid 6-7 hours in various zoom hearings and meetings. My favorite parts of zoom so far:

    – 2 hours in a conference zoom with 12-15 other lawyers. At times, there were 3 different cross conversations among various participants as multiple cases were being dealt with. This was followed by about 40 minutes in the ensuing hearing, with 12 people participating (including 2 opiate addicts) and a fuzzy connection.

    – I heard a flushing toilet from an unmuted pro se participant on a motion docket last week.

    – One lawyer I know was treated to the sounds of boom chicka bow wow during a criminal docket a few weeks ago. Didn’t know if the participant was watching a porno or getting it on.

  105. 105.

    sherparick

    @debbie: That is one of the marvelous thing about mail in ballots.  It is a paper record and the person sending it signs under oath that he or she is voter and this vote is there only vote.  When a voter votes, the register/election official checks the name off the roll for that precinct.  If a mail in vote comes in 1) it is not counted and 2) triggers a issue about the original vote.  Intentionally doing it is a felony and will get you prosecuted.

    However, there is a problem with people who maintain more than one residences in different states. Florida has been notorious for this because until recently, it did not share voter registration information with other states.  Also, it is not clear that “Double Voting” in this way (registering and voting in two different states where you have mailing addresses in both states) is always against the law as it depends on the states.

    https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/double-voting.aspx

    Obviously, this kind of voter fraud tends to benefit upper income voters who tend to be Republican. https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/morse/files/1p1v.pdf

    In the past, out of tens of millions of votes, a thousand double votes has not been a problem.  But of course the 2000 and 2016 elections were decided just by a few thousand votes.

  106. 106.

    Jeffro

    @Mai naem mobile: Yup.  They’re trying to keep whatever they can of the ‘regular/normal/quiet-part-quiet’ Republican Party together, for the post-trumpov years.

    I hate to tell them, they’re not going to be able to put that Party back together again.

  108. 108.

    Another Scott

    Populism in Germany declines sharply, says Bertelsmann study
    https://p.dw.com/p/3hvZo

    Populism in German politics is on the decline after peaking in 2018, according to a study released Thursday by the Bertelsmann Foundation.

    Around 20% of registered voters in Germany are considered to have a “populist mindset,” which is a drop from the 2018 figure of 33% of voters who had such a view, according to researchers.

    […]
    Populist attitudes in the study include viewing politicians as part of a self-interested “corrupt elite,” rejecting compromise or supporting direct sovereignty through referendums. The study also analyzed populist attitudes “within the dimensions of anti-pluralism, anti-establishment, and homogeneity of the people.”

    Good, good. Here’s hoping that the trend grows world-wide.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  109. 109.

    cmorenc

    @Jeffro: Biden only has to peel off 5 -7% of GOP voters to vote for him, who in any other election would have voted for the R candidate, to be fatal to Trump’s chances, irrespective of the 90% of Rs still firmly with him.   Trump also can’t afford to lose (by not turnng out) any of the normally less motivated-to-turnout white working class voters who deecided to come out for him in the upper Midwest during the last week of the 2016 election.

  111. 111.

    Baud

    @cmorenc:

    Yep.  It’s the same reason the GOP still tries to make a pitch to black voters.  And why the Russians targeted black voters in 2016.  Just to peel off a few percent.

  114. 114.

    Jeffro

    Here’s the biggest big-picture issue Democrats face: if we want progressive policies, we’re going to need much more progressive tax rates:

    Using conservative estimates, these ripple effects mean that each dollar of spending the state cuts leads to a drop of at least $1.50 in the gross domestic product, and there are reasons to believe that the drop is as much as $2.50. With state budget shortfalls forecast to approach $300 billion this fiscal year, a spending-cut-only approach to balancing state budgets will cause at least a $450 billion reduction in G.D.P.— more than 2 percent.  Tax increases, especially on high-income people who aren’t living paycheck to paycheck, are much less economically damaging, costing the economy only around 35 cents for every dollar raised.

  115. 115.

    Soprano2

    I swear, NPR is getting on my last nerve. They had a story about Trump telling his supporters to vote twice, and they said “it appeared President Trump told people to vote twice”. No, you morons, it didn’t “appear” that he said that, HE SAID IT! Good Lord, why can’t they just say what happened? Why are they still carrying water for him?

  116. 116.

    Immanentize

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Sadly, Judges, Lawyers and clients are not often known for their tech literacy.  Did you see this recent lovely case in a federal sentencing order after a plea? After ranting online about convicts get too many rights and that Covid was a hoax and bragging about going to a maskless party, the newly minted convict moved to serve his sentence at home because of the virus threat.  Enter the sentencing judge:

    As a criminal, Mr. Hamm does have certain rights. At this point, Mr. Hamm’s rights include asking the Court to reconsider this decision, appealing to the Seventh Circuit, or asking President Trump for a pardon. But he does not have a right to not serve the prison sentence he agreed to because of a virus he does not believe exists.

  122. 122.

    MomSense

    @Jeffro:

    Here’s an example of how fucked our state taxes are.  22,200 – 52,599 = 6.75%
    52,600 and UP = 7.15%
    Single tax bracket.

  126. 126.

    Brachiator

    I had to go to the local Kaiser medical office and saw that they have refined their Covid-19 screening. When you enter a nurse asks you the questions about symptoms, then when you enter the lobby you stand on a place on the floor with 4 orange dots and they use some electronic gizmo to take your temperature.

    For half a second, I imagined that a phaser blast would evaporate those with a very high fever.

    Later I stopped by my local takeout place and was told that the local health authority had made the owner shut down the self serve ice and drink machine over pandemic concerns.

    This is total bullshit. Drink machines have never been shown to be a problem. And it’s adding insult to injury since it’s expected to be hotter than hell in the Los Angeles area this weekend, with the temperature in some areas reaching 110 plus degrees.

  127. 127.

    narya

    @raven: I started doing Pilates 6-7 years ago, in part because of low-level occasional lower back pain. Made a huge difference, not just with that but with overall flexibility (hint: I’m not flexible) and strength. I paid for 1:1 sessions, which has been worthwhile. Expensive, but still worthwhile. We’re now doing remote sessions, which is less satisfying (I don’t have the equipment in my home). There is a ton of stuff online, too. It has some cult-like aspects, but the basic work is really focused on functional ability. (I had done yoga for many years, but I like this better, tbh.)

  128. 128.

    Jeffro

    @cmorenc: so true, great point.

    I wonder if anyone/any organization has looked in detail at the composition of trumpov’s current support?  I suspect he has lost more former “regular”* Rs than people think, while pulling in some additional infrequently-voting Rs, hardcore racists (who now know without a doubt that trumpov champions their cause), and QAnon wackaloons (who might otherwise not vote, or at least not vote for a major-party candidate).

    *I use the term advisedly, to be sure…’regular’ for them

    Then again, we already know that much of the GOP base is racist and believes in ‘Q’, so no point in wasting time on it.

  130. 130.

    Betty Cracker

    @rp: Ha! Must be a Boston thing. Our little guy is a burrower (throw pillows, blankets, whatever), and he always has at least one hind leg sticking out.

  132. 132.

    Sloane Ranger

    @Betty Cracker: Lord Peter Wimsey once explained that the secret of his family’s success was having a foot in both camps during civil wars and upheavals, That way there would be a Wimsey close to the seat of power whoever won, ensuring the family as a whole would thrive and survive.

  133. 133.

    Jeffro

    @MomSense: That is nuts.

    It’ll take no small amount of courage, but Dems really need to get those increases in there a.s.a.p., and then be sure to show voters how a couple % points’ increase on folks making $400k+ produced simply massive amounts of revenue.

    And it ties in to everything, too.  Need billions to rapidly test for Covid at scale?  Want to pay teachers more and hire more of them?  Need subsidies for green energy?  I know where we can find that dough, and so do you, American voters!  ;)

  134. 134.

    Caravelle

    That for Joe Biden made me tear up. I wonder if that was a deliberate Hamilton reference they made about Beau Biden’s death (if it was it was an appropriate and powerful one I think, but it could just be a common phrase).

  135. 135.

    Betty Cracker

    @John S.: I don’t think they’re Republicans so much as believers in the aggressively stupid creed that holds if you piss both sides off, you’re getting it right. I’m constantly amazed by how many seemingly smart people believe that nonsense.

  136. 136.

    WereBear

    @raven: Check out the Egoscue Method.

    You can diagnose and treat from the book and it’s done wonders for everyone I know who has tried it.

    Professional physical therapy person with his own approach.

  138. 138.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Jeffro: While we’re at it, let’s put some teeth in the inheritance tax too. Not only would that produce revenue,  but also it would lessen the power that dumdums like Kushner or Trump gain by inheriting large amounts of money

  142. 142.

    Kay

    @Jeffro:

    I think Kasich and Snyder were elected due to support by college educated white voters and that’s who might be moved by them denouncing Trump. Snyder was almost the opposite of Trump- he ran as a “nerd”, his whole pitch was “smart technocrat”. Supposedly. Really they both ran on Right wing magical economic thinking- you can have infrastructure and services and not pay for any of it. Snyder was SO smart he was going to figure out how to build roads for free, perhaps :)

  143. 143.

    Danielx

    @Immanentize:

    Could be worse – my first roommate was a guy who had hair a half inch long at a time when hair to the shoulders was more or less the norm. He was going to major in forensic studies and his ambition was to be a state trooper. We were not sympatico.

  145. 145.

    sanjeevs

    Karl Rove laid out the Republican plan for the election in yesterday’s WSJ – litigate everything – signature matching for postal votes, deadlines etc . They’ll do this across all the competitive states.

    I hope the Democrats have a plan for this

  148. 148.

    germy

    Has this been mentioned in previous threads?

    Pelosi says hair salon should apologize for ‘set-up’ visit

    “I take responsibility for trusting the word of a neighborhood salon that I’ve been to over the years many times, and that when they said … we’re able to accommodate people one person at a time, and that we can set up that time, I trusted that,” Pelosi told reporters Wednesday. “As it turns out, it was a set-up.”

    “I take responsibility for falling for a set-up,” she said.

    An attorney for the man who did her hair also said Pelosi appeared to have been set up.

    Matthew Soleimanpour said his client received permission from the salon owner a day earlier to make the appointment.

    During that telephone call the owner, Erica Kious, “made several vitriolic and incendiary comments about Speaker Pelosi,” Soleimanpour said in a statement.

    “It appears Ms. Kious is furthering a set-up of Speaker Pelosi for her own vain aspirations,” the statement said.

  149. 149.

    Baud

    @germy: Today show did a bit of a hit job story on this, but at the end, they said that the owner gave permission to the stylist to contact Pelosi.  The stylist now has an attorney.  It’s a hit job, and I hope that all the facts come out and we go on offense with this.

  150. 150.

    germy

    @Baud:  This morning is the first time I heard about the set-up.

    I was surprised yesterday at how big the original story was, all over broadcast TV news.  When the story was being framed as “hypocritical and vain Nancy violated her own rules” etc.

  151. 151.

    Kay

    @Jeffro:

    I hope Democrats move away from means testing for public services. I think it’s dumb politically and bad public policy. All it does is silo lower income people in this group that “need help” and asks voters to support policy they don’t see any benefit from. It isn’t even true. The biggest beneficiaries of Medicaid aren’t necessarily poor people- they’re old people. Tell them what they get for their taxes. Bring them in to the group who benefit directly from increasing taxes. Who gives a shit if 150 millionaires benefit from free community college? The VAST majority who will benefit are lower income.

    I watched this up close. We added free preschool at the public school. It’s not means tested, same as K-12. Two things happened- higher income people supported it and higher income people sent their kids there. The school is 50% low income. The biggest winners in that are the low income preschoolers. Did it also benefit higher income families? Yes. But now the preschool program is NOT a “lower income” program and it is bulletproof. They’ll never be able to take it away. The vast majority of the families in this town use it.

  152. 152.

    germy

    Fox News: “Salon owner decries Pelosi ‘set up’ claim as absolutely false”

    CBS: “Stylist Backs Up Pelosi’s Claim San Francisco Salon Visit Was a Set-Up”

    Who to believe?  Who to believe??

  154. 154.

    Baud

    @germy: The media loves sticking it to the Dems, especially when they can spin it as Dems being hypocritical and untrustworthy.

    The real story is the salon owner’s deceit.  But the news doesn’t find that exciting.

  155. 155.

    TS (the original)

    @Immanentize:

    More neighborly, less agitated and angry.

    Maybe it was the Wednesday Polls. Everyone on RCP has Biden ahead. A number of them have Biden at 50%+

    I wonder who Rassmussen Polls (White House Staff?)

    Trump disapproval goes from  +7 to +16  while Rassmussen has it at +1.

    And the Fox poll with Kelly 56, McSally 39 would make anyone (except maybe McSally) smile.

  156. 156.

    Suzanne

    @Betty Cracker:  Does the room have a nice cool tile floor? If so, that’s your answer.

    I am exhausted. This year is wearing me out. Since June 2019, I’ve got a new baby, new job with new clients and projects, new (old) house, new city, new living arrangement for Spawn the Elder…. and a pandemic, with all that that entails.

  157. 157.

    Joe Falco

    @Kay:

    Who gives a shit if 150 millionaires benefit from free community college?

    Hell, just giving their kids the option to be able to attend school without their parents threatening to cut them off if they don’t meet expectations is laudable.

  158. 158.

    Barbara

    @Jeffro:

    The impact of this unprecedented campaign by members of a political party to oppose one of their own running for re-election as president remains to be seen. Polls show that Trump still enjoys nearly 90 percent approval among the Republican rank and file.

    It’s important to keep in mind that party affiliation is fluid.  A president should always have fairly strong party support because people who don’t support the president are much more likely to disclaim party affiliation.  Party identification is not fixed, especially compared to demographic traits.  Losing support by demographic groups is far more indicative of reality on the ground.

  160. 160.

    Ken

    @Joe Falco: Plus, it will be so much cheaper for the millionaires, not having to “donate” $300,000 to the college so their kid gets in. Community colleges take anyone.

  161. 161.

    Suzanne

    @Joe Falco: The other thing that does is dilute the spendy colleges as a class separator. We should actively want rich people to go to public institutions. They’re more egalitarian that way.

  162. 162.

    Brachiator

    @Jeffro:
    Thanks for the great article link. There is much to get into, and much that is wildly incorrect. I think it is a great example of how even “smart” economists are thinking in wrong headed ways about the economy. They keep trying to look at it as though it is like a normal recession. Consequently, much of the recommendations about taxes is severely flawed.

    For example:

    But regardless of whether Congress acts, states and localities can bolster their local economies and support their residents by raising taxes on those who have not been hard hit by the recession. This is not only the right thing to do from a humanitarian standpoint, it is sound economics.

    I agree that state and local governments need federal aid. But the authors seem to ignore the simple fact that many state and local economies are still shut down. All of the economic activity that generated revenue from sales taxes has been artificially stifled. I think I read some economist call it a “demand recession.”

    So raising state taxes is not adding to other state revenue. It is substituting for revenue that normally flows into state and local coffers. And it would be taxing more of savings, reducing money that might otherwise be used for investing, or paying worker salaries.

    I don’t think that they authors have a grasp of the impact of the pandemic on the economy. I say this even though I admire much of their work.

  163. 163.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Immanentize:

    But he does not have a right to not serve the prison sentence he agreed to because of a virus he does not believe exists.

    Thing of beauty, that is.

  164. 164.

    Kristine

    @Betty Cracker:

    Maybe they’re playing the long game.

    The wealthy–as opposed to the merely rich–have playing the long game in their genetic code. It’s all about self-preservation and retaining power.

  165. 165.

    Matt McIrvin

    @sherparick: I think that in some states it’s possible to do a legal double vote. For instance, in Massachusetts, there’s a strict Election Day receipt limit for mail ballots, but there’s a tracking website and if they haven’t gotten your ballot by Election Day, you can vote in person.

    But the deadline is, I think, close of polls on Election Day. So what if the mail ballot arrives on Election Day itself? You could have also voted in person that same day, before the receipt was recorded in the voter rolls.

    (I’m a programmer; I think about “race conditions” like this a lot.)

  166. 166.

    Brachiator

    @Booger:

    Are these the self-serve ice machines which test higher for e.coli than the bathroom surfaces in the same facilities?

    Interesting question. The store owner said that nothing was tested. He was just told he had to stop using the drink station.

    The health authority seems to prefer that canned and bottled beverages be sold.

  168. 168.

    Kay

    @Joe Falco:

    When Whitmer ran in Michigan on “fix the roads” she didn’t say “in low income areas”, even though higher income areas with local road funding probably have better roads. She’s just fixing the roads. If they’re broken, she fixes them whether they lead into Detroit or Grosse Pointe. And it works out fine because lower income areas have lower tax revenue so will benefit more from any universal state subsidy. They get more anyway. If we didn’t have a public preschool here the higher income families would pay for private preschool. The lower income families wouldn’t go at all. They benefit more, and it isn’t means tested. Spend less time worrying about making sure higher income people don’t benefit and instead look at the benefit to lower income people. I feel like it came out of this really rigid way of looking at inequality- the same win/lose frame that created it in the first place. “Winners: poor people! Losers: people who will pay more taxes!” It can be more fluid than that. It IS more fluid than that. The model doesn’t even reflect current reality.

  169. 169.

    Joe Falco

    @Ken: True. I’m more concerned though with the young adult who might be trying to escape from their family for whatever reason(s) but still wants access to higher education without being forced into debt. Just like what I’d want for anyone regardless of class or status. Maybe there would be less terrible people in the world if they don’t have to become terrible people to satisfy their terrible parents just so they can have a happy future. Or not develop mental disorders if they have to deny themselves e.g. hiding their sexuality or gender because their parents would retaliate and refuse to help them in their time of need if the parents found out.

  170. 170.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Suzanne:

    Since June 2019, I’ve got a new baby, new job with new clients and projects, new (old) house, new city, new living arrangement for Spawn the Elder…. and a pandemic, with all that that entails.

    Thank heavens you’re living in a thriving economy, where the government is a smoothly-oiled machine, and your fellow citizens are invariably kind to one another, and you’re free to go anywhere you want….

    Um. Wait.

  176. 176.

    Kay

    @Joe Falco:

    I had this hysterical conversation with a person who was getting the 600 dollar bump in unemployment benefits. I know him well and I know he lives with his well-off parents although he works a lower wage job. I don’t know if he has expenses- I doubt it. Okay he talks to me about money and he takes it really seriously and he told me he’s “building wealth” by buying stock with the extra money. I don’t care if he buys stock – I know that the vast majority of the people in this town are paying rent or a car payment with it. He can have the stock because giving the subsidy to most people makes the subsidy wildly popular and not a dreaded “poor people program” that can and would have been demonized. Bring poor people back into the “people” category. It’s not helping that they’re off by themselves.

  177. 177.

    Redshift

    @Brachiator:

    Later I stopped by my local takeout place and was told that the local health authority had made the owner shut down the self serve ice and drink machine over pandemic concerns. 

    Hmm, I do wonder if it’s an issue with much lower traffic, so the drink machine gets resupplied and cleaned less often. I got takeout a couple of months ago at a place where I had a free refill cup, and the results were… not good.

  178. 178.

    Another Scott

    @Brachiator: Trouble is, of course, that this unconventional recession caused by the pandemic lockdown is going to turn into a real recession/depression unless the federal government acts quickly.  Permanent layoffs are increasing, people are going to be losing their housing, real incomes are going to fall off a cliff, etc.  One can’t simply flip a switch if/when we have a good vaccine to make everything better again.  A lot of the Before Times jobs and economic activity are not coming back anytime soon.

    All because Moscow Mitch and his lackeys in the Senate refuse to do their jobs because OhNo helping the country will help Democrats.

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  181. 181.

    Brachiator

    @Redshift:

    Hmm, I do wonder if it’s an issue with much lower traffic, so the drink machine gets resupplied and cleaned less often. I got takeout a couple of months ago at a place where I had a free refill cup, and the results were… not good.

    Unlikely. I am double checking out of curiosity, but was told that the health people were going to every eatery that had self-service drink setups and shutting them down.

  184. 184.

    Another Scott

    A cautionary note about the unemployment numbers this morning. They (for good reasons) changed the way they are doing the Seasonal Adjustments so the SA numbers today cannot be compared to previous weeks. Using the NSA numbers shows the real trend.

    https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020/09/weekly-initial-unemployment-claims.html

    The Not Seasonally Adjusted (NSA) claims increased to 833,352 from 825,761 the previous week. These are directly comparable since the Seasonal Adjustment Factor was identical for both weeks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  185. 185.

    Redshift

    @Kay: Hear, hear! Liberals should be full-throated advocates of making things government services rather than assistance for the poor. Conservatives have been doing the opposite because they want to cut government and they know that makes it easier (because racism and poor-shaming). Too often people on our side are suckered into that to make a deal or to seem “responsible.”

  186. 186.

    Barbara

    @SiubhanDuinne: I think the judge should decide based on whatever the real risks are.  The penalty for whatever offense he committed should not include heightened risks of death through infection.  He doesn’t deserve greater consideration but he doesn’t deserve less.

  187. 187.

    Kay

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I wonder sometimes why Democrats are so shy about mentioning Medicaid and nursing homes. It’s a subsidy not just to the resident but to the resident’s family, who would either have to pay for care of their elderly loved one or care for that person themselves. We’re ALL benefiting from this, and in very direct ways. It’s not all generous that we’re paying for it- we use it.

    It’s this quiet, huge subsidy to a big group of people who are not “poor” yet Medicaid is always vulnerable to cuts because it’s sold and perceived as a poor person’s program. Just tell the truth! It’s not just for poor people!

    John Kasich put in free college in Ohio. College Credit Plus is a state program where any high school student who passes a test can take college credit classes free. Any. It is WILDLY popular. Does it maybe give some free college credits to better off students? Absolutely. But the benefit to lower income students is much bigger and it would have controversial and unloved if he has proposed it as a program for low income.

  188. 188.

    TS (the original)

    @Brachiator:

    Unlikely. I am double checking out of curiosity, but was told that the health people were going to every eatery that had self-service drink setups and shutting them down.

    I think it’s the “self-serve” – anyone & everyone is accessing them. Cans/bottles are sealed when they get to you. In my part of the world, any type of self-serve/ food/drinks was shut down during restrictive conditions. Must admit I have no idea if they have since been allowed as things opened up.

  189. 189.

    catclub

    @Kay: It’s this quiet, huge subsidy to a big group of people who are not “poor” yet Medicaid is always vulnerable to cuts because it’s sold and perceived as a poor person’s program.

     

    The person who gets the nursing home care paid for by medicaid is poor, since they have spent down virtually all their assets before they qualify.  But their children, can be definitely middle class and upper middle class. The ‘big group’ that is getting the subsidy is both the poor user and their kids.

  190. 190.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: No, I’m talking about the case where the ballot arrives in the several hours in between the printing out of the paper voter-roll lists that the poll workers check to see whether an in-person voter already voted, and the deadline for receipt of the mail ballots.

    They’ll detect the situation when they check and scan the mail ballots, of course. The vote won’t be counted double. I assume they’ve just got some consistent rule for deciding which vote to keep.

  192. 192.

    Miss Bianca

    @Kay: I saw another article on this after a friend from my high school posted it on FB. Made me wish I could go back to my hometown, if only to visit Belle Isle again. Beautiful place, beautiful memories…now a memorial site itself.

    God damn the Trump Administration for destroying so many lives, hopes, and dreams.

  194. 194.

    Brachiator

    @Another Scott:

    Trouble is, of course, that this unconventional recession caused by the pandemic lockdown is going to turn into a real recession/depression unless the federal government acts quickly.  Permanent layoffs are increasing, people are going to be losing their housing, real incomes are going to fall off a cliff, etc.

    We have a problem no matter what. I agree big time that the federal government needs to help/work with states. But some creative solutions are needed as well.

    European governments are finding that their progressive policies that provided some job security for furloughed workers and support for small business only provided short term relief. As the pandemic drags on, businesses are laying off workers in large numbers. A British airline is cutting staff and also slashing salaries.

    One can’t simply flip a switch if/when we have a good vaccine to make everything better again.  A lot of the Before Times jobs and economic activity are not coming back anytime soon.

    I actually think that the economy will bounce back big, but very unevenly.  There are still industries that practically no longer exist. I’m in the Los Angeles area, and it shocks me that movie theaters are still gone, and all those workers without jobs. Equally bad, there are movies that have completed production, but if they were released to streaming only, the realized losses on blockbusters would be astounding. Hospitality and leisure is still down, air travel is down to a trickle.

    And yet home sales are still strong, as is the market for used automobiles (and unfortunately people are avoiding public transit in droves). Net saving is much stronger than before for many income groups. I think that there is a considerable amount of pent up consumer demand, and this could lead to significant new spending, which may in turn produce new jobs.

    But obviously, there are a lot of people barely hanging on. In reading economic news and listening to some business podcasts, I make note of every time an economist notes that they are “surprised” at some positive economic result.

    The pandemic economy is something new.  Even the Federal Reserve is rethinking some of its past policies.

    Current and former Federal Reserve officials say the timing of its interest rate hikes between 2015 and 2018 may have been a mistake, a rare moment of humility spurred by the Fed’s adoption of a new framework for approaching inflation.
    Lael Brainard and Richard Clarida, both serving on the Fed’s Board of Governors, said this week that the Fed may have curbed a quicker post-2008 recovery in the job market by lifting off of zero interest rates too soon.

    I hope this also leads them to consider pandemic-related policy more carefully.

    ETA: I also recall seeing that the IRS has predicted that 37 million fewer Forms W2 will be issued for tax year 2020. This may presage a significant decrease in federal and state tax revenues. Again, it’s tough to read the signs and make any conclusions about where the economy is headed.

  195. 195.

    catclub

    @Matt McIrvin: I assume they’ve just got some consistent rule for deciding which vote to keep.

     

    and since your in-person vote has been (effectively? actually?) dropped into the tabulator immediately, i figure THAT is the one they keep.  There is really no way to pull that one out without violating any ballot secrecy.

  196. 196.

    Ken

    @catclub: I wonder how close you can get to a ‘no touch’ self service drink setup

    Not while children exist.

    Also many restaurants have drink machines with touch-screen controls, so you can mix your own ginger-lime diet cola.

  197. 197.

    TS (the original)

    @catclub:

    all the customer touches is their own cup.

    They could sneeze on the machine?

    I don’t know how different your self serve is to the few I have used, but it was easy to touch much of the machines. I use them so infrequently I usually start banging things because I don’t know how they work.

  198. 198.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @sanjeevs:

    Chance of a Biden Electoral college win if he wins the popular vote by X points:

    0-1 points: just 6%!

    1-2 points: 22% 2-3 points: 46%

    3-4 points: 74% 4-5 points: 89%

    5-6 points: 98% 6-7 points: 99%

    If ever there were an argument to vote, even if you think your vote is superfluous or won’t count … this is that argument.

  200. 200.

    Jeffro

    OT but I am listening to Larry Sabato opine about the ‘post-truth’ era and um well it’s disappointing.  It’s a “just the way things are” kind of mentality as opposed to the press and pundits having any role or agency in shaping perceptions, accountability, etc.

    Maybe I just need more coffee…grrrrr…

  202. 202.

    Miss Bianca

    @O. Felix Culpa: Damn. I think maybe you’re right. She’s moving from Never Trumper to Democrat in All But Name! Come on, Jen – take that last step, we’re all waiting to welcome ya! : )

  204. 204.

    Jeffro

    @Kay: everybody loves a free lunch, even college-educated techno-nerds.

    “No more magical thinking!” = great for democracy, governance.  Not so great for winning elections, unfortunately.  =(

  206. 206.

    Mike in NC

    Media reporting that people are starting to die from attending the imbecile 400K biker rally in Sturgis. Whocouldaknown???

  207. 207.

    Jeffro

    @sanjeevs:

     

    @Baud: trumpov & Co are going to try and cause as much chaos as possible, and then try to wear us out (w/ litigation, calls for violence, etc).  Can’t happen, won’t happen.

    This is why Clinton already publicly said, ‘Biden should not concede’.  He’s going to win, so I hope she means he should not concede one iota one inch one issue, about any of it.  Any fishy, super-close vote totals this time around and he shouldn’t concede then, either.

  208. 208.

    Jeffro

    @Kay: Agreed.  Don’t means-test the access to services…just get those highly progressive tax rates in there and the rest takes care of itself.

  209. 209.

    Brachiator

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    While we’re at it, let’s put some teeth in the inheritance tax too.

    Yep. This needs to be revisited, along with everything else the Republicans crammed into their last tax cut bills. Trust vehicles that let people shift income around to be sheltered need review as well.

  212. 212.

    The Moar You Know

     

    Later I stopped by my local takeout place and was told that the local health authority had made the owner shut down the self serve ice and drink machine over pandemic concerns.

    This is total bullshit. Drink machines have never been shown to be a problem.

    @Brachiator:  I can well believe that the local health department shut his machines down…but not due to the pandemic.

    Used to clean them when I worked at McDonald’s back in high school.  I have never gotten fountain drinks or soft-serve anything since.  We cleaned them right and I still thought they were pretty sketchy from a food safety standpoint.  A place that doesn’t clean them right – and that’s most places – is a constant low level disease vector not on many people’s radar.

  213. 213.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Redshift: While I agree that universal services are preferable to means-tested ones, I’ve also noticed some purity-pony advocacy here from the extreme Bernie crowd that seems to prefer nothing at all to means-tested services. Especially when bashing Democrats for having supported means-tested services in the past.

  215. 215.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Boy, even MSNBC is kind of ganging up on Nancy Smash for getting her hair washed. She’s “defensive.” That was ugly, and disappointing.

  216. 216.

    japa21

    @catclub: In Illinois,  if you were sent a mail in ballot, unless you bring it into the polling place with you, you can only vote with a provisional ballot.  If when the deadline for receipt of mail ins arrives and your ballot hasn’t,  then the provisional gets counted.  I anticipate a high number of provisional ballots.

  218. 218.

    Brachiator

    @catclub:

    I wonder how close you can get to a ‘no touch’ self service drink setup – all the customer touches is their own cup.

    Variations of these drink machines are used in most movie theaters these days.

    I wonder if health officials will impose new restrictions on food and beverage service here, especially if more movie theaters ever re-open again.

  220. 220.

    Another Scott

    @The Moar You Know: OTOH, my dad told a story once about getting lunch at a local family owned eaterie where he and some buddies would regularly meet.  Getting unsweetened tea poured from a pitcher and dipping his spoon in to stir it and lifting the spoon out with a nice mat of algae/mold/something growing on it.

    :-/

    The waitress sheepishly brought him a fresh glass…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  224. 224.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    @Matt McIrvin: I don’t think her warnings sound insane at all, I didn’t think they sounded insane back in 2016, Trump had business ties to Russia and so did Jared, that the press and the public ignored.  Calling him Putin’s puppet was right on the nose.

  225. 225.

    Brachiator

    @The Moar You Know:

    I can well believe that the local health department shut his machines down…but not due to the pandemic.

    I think this was the claim. The pandemic. But I will actually double-check the next time I stop by.

    Used to clean them when I worked at McDonald’s back in high school. I have never gotten fountain drinks or soft-serve anything since. We cleaned them right and I still thought they were pretty sketchy from a food safety standpoint. A place that doesn’t clean them right – and that’s most places – is a constant low level disease vector not on many people’s radar.

    I’ve read somewhere that McDonalds is good about maintaining these machines. From a quick random search.

    McDonald’s also controls freshness by cleaning everything daily. Letting syrup sit in hoses and machines allows it to chemically degrade and for bacteria to grow. Keeping everything clean also keeps it fresh and tasting good.

    But even though customer access machines are being shut down, many eateries use similar machines to serve the takeout window. And variations of these machines are used in movie theaters and other places.  And yet, I’m not seeing that people are dropping with illness.

  227. 227.

    Ruckus

    @raven:

    Sorry about the leg. I see neuro regularly, less now than in the last 4 yrs, partially about the pains I have. Mostly very short term, often rather severe pains, in extremities. This a sometimes effect of diabetes, which they tell me I’m not so everyone seems stumped. But our bodies can do funny/not so funny things to us, rather than for us. And from my experience, debbie is likely right, if normal PT does nothing, neuro is your next stop. Good luck with finding a cause and cure. BTW if they want to do a nerve conduction test, when they did that on me, my response was “Mother Fucker,” rather sharp and loud. Didn’t even get a rise out of the attending but the resident watching/learning was surprised. The voltage is not high, the shock is administered say in the calf, but they measure it at the farthest point from the brain, your foot and your verbal response lets them know that it also went the other way. I had good transmission. Very, very good.

  229. 229.

    Geminid

    I remember reading this political/economic definition in the Farmer’s Almanac: “Democracy is a system in which everyone gets ahead, and no one is left behind.”

  232. 232.

    J R in WV

    @raven:

    I’ve done a ton of PT for a wide variety of injuries and issues, so please allow me to make a suggestion. Stop exercising until it hurts, start working in small increments that don’t get you to that point. Run a quarter mile out and come back, sit and admire a tree. After a while, do it again. Same in the pool. And don’t use the locker-room, put on some sweats and go home.

    You aren’t a young stallion any more, we’re both old now, and need to husband what we have left to work with. I can work hard, still, but I better not go for a 6 or 8 hour day if I can avoid it, or I’m trashed the next day or two. A couple of hours and I’m OK in the morning. Yes, it takes longer to get stuff done, but so what!? At least I’m still vertical and cooking dinner.

    Ozark, blech right back.

    Fuck Nixon, and LBJ too! We outlived both those crusty bastards, that’s a win in my book!

  234. 234.

    jc

    Dear President Obama, respect, dignity and decency are noble traits. But this country is in a full-blown crisis, and the “we go high” approach is nice, but it’s a bit too nice when your opponent is a raging, amoral monster, who spits on niceness and following rules.

    When a cop is dealing with a low-down criminal, they don’t “go high,” they bust their ass and make them face justice. The law is the law, and Trump and his crew think they’re above it. And if they successfully steal this election, we can kiss goodbye the rule of law in America. Every rotten thing we’ve seen over the past four years will be set in stone as acceptable, and it will get ten times worse.

  235. 235.

    MisterForkbeard

    @The Moar You Know: The local Targets have done this too.

    My understanding is that while it’s not required it’s one of those “Hey, you should really have your customers avoid touching things other customers touch if at all possible”.

    Maybe it is actually health-dept mandated. Many of them went beyond what you think you might need, because that’s prudent in a pandemic situation and there’s an easy workaround here: Have the employees do the soda and ice.

  237. 237.

    J R in WV

    @Chief Oshkosh:

     

    @OzarkHillbilly: Now THAT made me laugh. Back the howling pack of jackals.

     

    I have worked really hard to not tell people to get fucked so often as I used to. Not even with a rusty farm implement, which slogan I love to use on Republican wack-a-loons. Now I just pie idiots.

    I don’t hesitate, I just do it, because it is so easy to undo. After a few days or a week or two, I toggle them to see if they still enrage me, if not I un-pie them. The pup-cake and the kitten cake are both so cute, and the Sea Lion Chow is LOL funny for some commenters.

    Some times, though, there is nothing else to do than to call a spade a spade and tell someone to fuck right off…

    Thanks to Cole for creating such a forgiving space!!

  238. 238.

    Matt McIrvin

    @The Moar You Know: She fucked up by being a woman and a Democrat. Anyway, she’s a good lightning rod for this kind of thing, since she’s a non-Presidential-candidate in a safe seat. It’s probably better for us if she’s attracting the aggro.

    I haven’t even bothered figuring out what this haircut thing is about because ginned-up scandals about Democrats’ haircuts are a whole genre of bullshit.

  242. 242.

    Ruckus

    @Brachiator:

    My boss says that he always done well in a turn down. Till now. Been there just over 7 yrs and we’ve always had work lined up. Till now. We manufacture parts and tooling for a number of industries, healthcare and agriculture among them.

    The last 3-4 weeks we’ve been seeing a slowdown and my work hrs have been cut back. The only real reason I mind is that I’m trying to build my bank back up from the last recession so that I can retire because I’d really like to not have to go to work any longer, even part time. I’m 71 and still producing but it’s getting to be less and less desirable to get up to an alarm clock and go to work after 6 decades. I’d planned to work for 7 more months and that would be it, but now I have no idea what is going to happen, not even really able to guess what. And I’m not in as bad a place as many are.

  243. 243.

    Ruckus

    @Mike in NC:

    I’ve often wondered how many are injured/die from drunken motorcycle operation from The Ride. And now a new way to die from Sturgis, an invisible virus that feeds on closeness and exposure. WhoCoudaKnown?

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