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You are here: Home / Elections / Biden-Harris 2020 / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Good for Joe

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Good for Joe

by Anne Laurie|  September 3, 20206:33 am| 243 Comments

This post is in: Biden-Harris 2020, Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat, Readership Capture

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.@JoeBiden is a man who learned to treat every person he meets with respect and dignity, living by the words his parents taught him: “No one’s better than you, Joe, but you’re better than nobody.” That empathy, that decency, the belief that everybody counts—that’s who Joe is. pic.twitter.com/RW8o39zQJL

— Barack Obama (@BarackObama) September 2, 2020

Joe Biden says he has begun to prepare for the presidential debates by going over what Trump has said and "the multiple lies he's told."

He says he wishes the debates had live fact-checking chyrons.

"I'm looking forward to debating the president."

— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) September 2, 2020

Biden on public health measures for Covid: "I talk about patriotism. Why do you wear a mask? To protect your neighbor. To keep someone else from getting sick … I call that patriotic. This is the USA. Every generation has made sacrifices to help others in moments of crises." pic.twitter.com/x5CSAVrF5g

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) September 2, 2020

Eighty-one Nobel Prize winners endorsed Joe Biden for president in an open letter on Wednesday, citing the former vice president's "willingness to listen to experts" and his "deep appreciation for using science to find solutions." https://t.co/oMjN7MbFVX

— CNN (@CNN) September 2, 2020

Joe Biden says he would use existing federal disaster law to direct funding to schools to help them reopen safely during the pandemic. The Democratic presidential nominee accused President Trump of ignoring the issue. https://t.co/OJWUY1QTuW

— The Associated Press (@AP) September 2, 2020

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Reader Interactions

243Comments

  1. 1.

    japa21

    September 3, 2020 at 6:50 am

    Good morning

  2. 2.

    rikyrah

    September 3, 2020 at 6:54 am

    @japa21: 

    Hey japa?

  3. 3.

    Eural Joiner

    September 3, 2020 at 6:55 am

    Good morning everyone! Awake to head off to my first week back to virtual high school teaching – and it has certainly been interesting. I feel like I’m walking through mud, making slow progress but every step that should be easy takes so much effort. Everyone – teachers, students, parents, administrators, staff – is on a steep learning curve. But I really think that, whenever we do go back to a physical school environment, teaching will never be the same. Also, it’s very eerie sitting in my classroom, alone, going around campus, alone, hearing distant noises of other people working but having very little contact. I look out my window and see a beautiful campus I’ve come to love over 27 years of teaching here…and not a person in sight for hours at a time. Crazy world! Namaste :)

  4. 4.

    rikyrah

    September 3, 2020 at 6:55 am

    Good Morning, Everyone ???

  5. 5.

    rikyrah

    September 3, 2020 at 6:55 am

    Stay in the basement Joe ?

  6. 6.

    rikyrah

    September 3, 2020 at 6:56 am

    @Eural Joiner:

    Good luck ??

  7. 7.

    cmorenc

    September 3, 2020 at 7:06 am

    Appearances like this by Biden help us mightily in moving past our existential dread there might be some possibility Trump could somehow pull off enough distracting, fear-mongering antics to squeak out re-election. Biden and Harris are perfectly suited to combat and contrast attractively well against the toxic bullshit Donnie and his valet Pence throw out, except to Trump’s hard-core base, of whom there simply aren’t enough to pull off a second electoral college squeaker.

  8. 8.

    debbie

    September 3, 2020 at 7:09 am

    @cmorenc:

    No dread, even after hearing Trump tell his NC supporters to vote twice? ? ?

  9. 9.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 3, 2020 at 7:10 am

    @Eural Joiner: Remember pants. ?

  10. 10.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 7:12 am

    @japa21:

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning.

  11. 11.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 3, 2020 at 7:13 am

    On the good news front, just about three weeks after returning to the US, my son got a job offer yesterday, for something which meshes extremely closely with his education and experience. It was offered at the salary he requested, and in fact they wanted him to start today, but he said he’d start Tuesday. Almost exclusively remote/work-from-home, so he’ll still be living in my house for a while, but gainfully employed, so hopefully he can buy the beer from time to time.

  12. 12.

    OzarkHillbilly

    September 3, 2020 at 7:13 am

    Blech.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 7:13 am

    No one’s better than you, Joe, but you’re better than nobody

    I am better than Trump.

     

    ETA: And so is Joe.

  14. 14.

    raven

    September 3, 2020 at 7:13 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Hell yes!

  15. 15.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 7:13 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Excellent.

  16. 16.

    raven

    September 3, 2020 at 7:16 am

    I’ve had a guy working on my leg and foot and he’s got me trying to drink a gallon of water a day. I can do it but it really sucks because, as the ad says, “that’s all I was doing’!!! I went back to the Y to swim and the fellas are playing full blast hoops with little regard to any damn virus. I’m not sure that makes me feel better about the dingy locker room.

  17. 17.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 7:17 am

    I don’t like Morning Joe, but credit where it’s due, he has a COVID death toll chyron up on the screen.

  18. 18.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 7:17 am

    @rikyrah: ?

  19. 19.

    raven

    September 3, 2020 at 7:19 am

    Geeze, my facebook memory page popped up and I retired a year ago today and it was the 50th anniversary of coming home. Who knew what a suck ass year it would be?

  20. 20.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 7:19 am

    Happy Thursday, All.

    Let’s see, coffee is ready, it’s garbage day here, I have six hours of Zoomeetings, and the weekend cannot come quick enough.

    Which all adds up to:. BLECH!

  21. 21.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 3, 2020 at 7:20 am

    And for the morning crowd.

    Here is a story about the time I got in trouble as a kid for repeatedly using the word “whorehouse.”— Andrew Farmer (@thatsajellyfish) September 1, 2020

  22. 22.

    rikyrah

    September 3, 2020 at 7:21 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Yeah ?

    Congratulations ?

  23. 23.

    rikyrah

    September 3, 2020 at 7:21 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    ??

  24. 24.

    rikyrah

    September 3, 2020 at 7:22 am

    @Immanentize:

    How is Little Imma ?

  25. 25.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 7:23 am

    @raven: A year already?  I remember you making short timer jokes….  Yes, the year sucked.

  26. 26.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 3, 2020 at 7:23 am

    @raven: How’s the bike working out?

  27. 27.

    SFAW

    September 3, 2020 at 7:23 am

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Remember pants.

    You’re apparently not onboard the Baud!2020 train.

  28. 28.

    debbie

    September 3, 2020 at 7:25 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Impressive!

  29. 29.

    raven

    September 3, 2020 at 7:26 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Ugh, I like it but I get exactly the same problems with my quad and heel. It’s one reason I went back to the pool. I called the sport med doc and asked, since the PT failed, what he thought I should do next. He said maybe spine injections would help. I don’t think I’m interested so now I’m going to try real rest for a while and see where that gets me.

  30. 30.

    debbie

    September 3, 2020 at 7:26 am

    @Immanentize:

    How’s Immp doing at college?

  31. 31.

    raven

    September 3, 2020 at 7:27 am

    @Immanentize: Yea I still have my “Dylan’s Greatest Hits” poster up!

  32. 32.

    Betty Cracker

    September 3, 2020 at 7:27 am

    Angel dust, huh? Well, that would explain the mass hallucinations.

  33. 33.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 7:27 am

    @rikyrah: He’s doing well.  He is very happy in his dorm room, his suitemates are “OK.” He likes his classes which seem pretty cool, but they are all online. We had to get him a monitor because he uses a surface and he couldn’t zoom and take notes without a separate monitor (and cam).

    I sent him a package of a bunch of stuff he needed the other day and slipped in some madeleines I made. He was very happy about the treats. Typical student, I’d say.

  34. 34.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 7:27 am

    @SFAW:

    Joe’s pro-pant stance was clearly more popular with voters. But I’m proud that I did not compromise Democratic values for political expediency.

  35. 35.

    OzarkHillbilly

    September 3, 2020 at 7:28 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Not that Bud Light swill I hope. Life is too short to drink cheap beer.

  36. 36.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 3, 2020 at 7:28 am

    @raven:

    Geeze, my facebook memory page popped up and I retired a year ago today and it was the 50th anniversary of coming home. Who knew what a suck ass year it would be? 

    I’ve been thinking lately how lucky it was that this virus hit so late in Dump’s bastard presidency.  Imagine if this had happened at the end of 2017.

    (Yes, I know we still have to crush the fascist on November 3rd.)

  37. 37.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 3, 2020 at 7:28 am

    @debbie: Yeah, I may not have been fully forthcoming – this opportunity has been in the works for a while, quite a bit longer than three weeks.

  38. 38.

    MomSense

    September 3, 2020 at 7:29 am

    @Eural Joiner:

    Sending good thoughts your way. My son picked up his school computer yesterday and said he and his teacher both started to cry.

  39. 39.

    debbie

    September 3, 2020 at 7:29 am

    @raven:

    I missed your injury; is this that fishing injury acting up? Have you looked online for stretching and strengthening exercises you can do on your own? After you rest it up a bit, they might help recovery.

  40. 40.

    OzarkHillbilly

    September 3, 2020 at 7:29 am

    @Baud: I have one on the back of my truck, but I only update it once a week.

  41. 41.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 3, 2020 at 7:29 am

    @Baud: To hell with Morning Joe and every other media outlet that treated Dump’s campaign like a joke.

  42. 42.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 7:30 am

    @raven: I see one of those posters occasionally and think — I should get one now to have ready when I decide it’s time to go.  The plan is like you — 70 — which is a decade away.  But one never knows…

  43. 43.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 3, 2020 at 7:30 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: We only drink good beer here. I raised my kids right (although, despite my best efforts, he ended up a Celtics fan.)

  44. 44.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 3, 2020 at 7:30 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Morning sunshine.

  45. 45.

    debbie

    September 3, 2020 at 7:30 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    In this economy, it’s still plenty impressive.

  46. 46.

    John S.

    September 3, 2020 at 7:31 am

    There’s an old legal aphorism that goes:

    If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.

    All Trump does is pound the table. Biden is going to pound the facts and the law. Let’s hope the jury (voters) are persuaded by the latter and render the appropriate verdict.

  47. 47.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 3, 2020 at 7:31 am

    @raven: Sorry to hear it’s not helping.

  48. 48.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 7:33 am

    @Gin & Tonic: I thought three weeks ago he was still negotiating a position in Ukraine?  Or is that ANOTHER son?

  49. 49.

    MomSense

    September 3, 2020 at 7:33 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Congratulations to your son!

  50. 50.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 7:34 am

    @MomSense: So much loss that we aren’t even admitting.  Yet.

  51. 51.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 3, 2020 at 7:34 am

    @Immanentize: There were two things in the pipeline. The Ukraine offer wasn’t complete.

  52. 52.

    MomSense

    September 3, 2020 at 7:35 am

    @raven:

    Fuck 2020!

  53. 53.

    raven

    September 3, 2020 at 7:35 am

    @debbie: Oh it’s way beyond that. It’s not really an injury, at least not some identifiable trauma. I’ve had issues walking more than a mile without my foot/ankle weakening significantly. I went to a sports med doc right before the virus hit and the MRI showed nothing. In July I started PT and, after 8 sessions, the dude said he wasn’t helping so we stopped. I have a friend who moved back from LA and he’s a really good massage therapist and he’s been working me over with little result. I worry that it’s related to my stroke 2 years ago but the info on peripheral neuropathy don’t seem to connect so I’m at a loss. I do all kinds of stretching too.

  54. 54.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 7:35 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Grim task.  But I’m glad you are doing it.

  55. 55.

    NotMax

    September 3, 2020 at 7:36 am

    Interesting find on Prime, Red Line (original title Rédl), a Czech four episode TV series.

    Criminal conspiracy during a time of snowballing political change, Densely plotted, intensely presented.

  56. 56.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 7:36 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Your son is a veritable Soviet Union of pipelines.

  57. 57.

    raven

    September 3, 2020 at 7:36 am

    @Immanentize: I’ll send you mine! I laminated it so you can use a sharpie to make off the days.

  58. 58.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 7:36 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    How does he feel about moving to a less civilized country?

  59. 59.

    Betty Cracker

    September 3, 2020 at 7:38 am

    We have a rarely used half-bathroom with a pocket door, and for some reason, the dogs recently decided to annex it as their…office or something? They figured out how to open the door, and they hang out in there most of the day.

    I can’t figure out why they’ve suddenly glommed onto that room. It’s tiny. They both curl up on the bathmat, which doesn’t seem like it would be as comfortable as the well-padded dog beds they could be sleeping on, or the sofa, which is their preferred evening hang-out.

    The only explanation I can think of is that the room tends to be a few degrees warmer than the rest of the house. The previous owners added that room, and it doesn’t have an A/C vent.

  60. 60.

    zhena gogolia

    September 3, 2020 at 7:39 am

    @Eural Joiner:

    It’s very weird. Yesterday I felt as if I and a single young German professor were lady and lord of a large manor house that used to be teeming with guests and servants but was now echoing and empty, with only the two of us on the top floor, separated into two distant offices with the doors closed. Next week there will be in-person classes, so it will be different, but so strange and eerie. I hate to say it, but I kind of like it.

  61. 61.

    OzarkHillbilly

    September 3, 2020 at 7:40 am

    @Gin & Tonic:  Despite of my best efforts, neither of my sons are perfect either. And yes, “despite” is sometimes interchangeable with “because.”

  62. 62.

    zhena gogolia

    September 3, 2020 at 7:40 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Congratulations!

  63. 63.

    MomSense

    September 3, 2020 at 7:40 am

    @Immanentize:

    It’s giving me a new understanding of the roaring 20s.

  64. 64.

    OzarkHillbilly

    September 3, 2020 at 7:43 am

    @Immanentize: Pissing off my fellow Miserians is one job I enjoy immensely.

    ETA: I also have the latest unemployment numbers there, just so everyone knows how the greatest economy in the history of economies is doing. Underneath both is:

    “So. Much. Winning.”

  65. 65.

    Kay

    September 3, 2020 at 7:44 am

    NowThis
    @nowthisnews
    Families in Detroit, Michigan, set up 900 portraits of loved ones lost to COVID-19 as part of a massive memorial in Belle Isla Park

  66. 66.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 7:45 am

    @raven: I’ll take it! — but you should hold onto it a while longer.  Bob’s head is always good juju.

  67. 67.

    NotMax

    September 3, 2020 at 7:45 am

    @zhena gogolia

    strange and eerie

    Throw in despondent and you’ve got 90% of Russian literature covered.

    ;)

  68. 68.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 3, 2020 at 7:46 am

    @NotMax: Danger 5 looks cheesy as hell. I’ll have to check it out.

  69. 69.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 7:46 am

    Nearly 100 Republican and independent leaders will endorse Democrat Joe Biden for president on Thursday, including one-time 2020 Republican presidential candidate Bill Weld and the former Republican governors of Michigan and New Jersey, people involved in the effort told Reuters.

    I guess Weld is ok with us now that our nominee isn’t a chick.

  70. 70.

    debbie

    September 3, 2020 at 7:46 am

    @raven:

    IANAD, but years ago, when I had plenty of issues with my back and legs, my MRI looked perfectly fine. If you’re dealing with muscle weakness, you might want to think about a neurologist or rheumatologist. Those were the specialties that helped me the most.

  71. 71.

    JPL

    September 3, 2020 at 7:46 am

    @Gin & Tonic: So what do you think is happening in Minsk?   I read that they have several visitors from Russia.

  72. 72.

    Patricia Kayden

    September 3, 2020 at 7:46 am

    A majority of Republicans believed in birtherism.A majority of them now believe in QAnon. At what point do we acknowledge we have a serious problem here which goes way beyond politics & partisan divides? Oh, and what would you say if you saw these trends in another country?— Mehdi Hasan (@mehdirhasan) September 3, 2020

  73. 73.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 7:47 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Does your truck also have bullet holes? ?

  74. 74.

    JPL

    September 3, 2020 at 7:48 am

    @Immanentize: fyi CNN has had on the president of Rice University on their plans to keep students and faculty safe.   Little Imma is in good hands, and before you know it Thanksgiving will be here.

  75. 75.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 3, 2020 at 7:49 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’m long sick of all the winning.

  76. 76.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 7:50 am

    @MomSense: Daisey, Daisey, give me your answer true….

    I always liked to think Nat was singing about Gatsby

  77. 77.

    OzarkHillbilly

    September 3, 2020 at 7:52 am

    @Immanentize: Not yet.

  78. 78.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 7:52 am

    @Baud: I have a theory — these announcements are leading up to a George W. endorsement in Texas sometime mid-October.

  79. 79.

    Kristine

    September 3, 2020 at 7:53 am

    @Gin & Tonic:Congratulations ? to your son!

  80. 80.

    Betty Cracker

    September 3, 2020 at 7:54 am

    @Baud: In Weld’s defense, he did run around frantically the last week before the election endorsing the hell out of Clinton. Too little too late, but he at least made an effort, unlike his running mate or Jill Stein.

  81. 81.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 7:56 am

    @JPL: You cannot know how much I have been relieved by the Rice efforts.  They have a lot going for them — horizontal campus, large outdoor spaces and lots of resources.  The last one counts the most.  They are taking the sting out of launching the Immp and out of paying that tuition.  :-)

  82. 82.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 7:56 am

    @Betty Cracker: I remember that.  But he didn’t drop out.  He could have done more.

  83. 83.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 3, 2020 at 7:56 am

    @Betty Cracker: Oh Gary “And what is Aleppo” Johnson. ?

  84. 84.

    raven

    September 3, 2020 at 7:58 am

    @debbie: I’ve been leaning in that direction, thanks!

  85. 85.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 3, 2020 at 7:59 am

    @Baud:

    But he didn’t drop out.  He could have done more. 

    Johnson/Weld not running in the first place would’ve been a good start.

  86. 86.

    Betty Cracker

    September 3, 2020 at 8:00 am

    @Immanentize: I love that theory, and I can definitely imagine the elders of the Bush clan busting such a move to preserve the family dynasty in Republican politics. George II’s heresy wouldn’t necessarily hurt George III with Texas Republicans since the latter is a confirmed Trumper. Maybe they’re playing the long game.

  87. 87.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 8:00 am

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Libertarians always field a candidate.  Weld isn’t a libertarian, so he kind of shoulders a bit more of the blame.

  88. 88.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 8:01 am

    Just FYI y’all.  This somehow feels like a normal before-Covid morning thread.  More neighborly, less agitated and angry.  And for that, I thank each of you.

  89. 89.

    Butter Emails

    September 3, 2020 at 8:02 am

    @Baud: 

    Not sure what his dropping out would have done. He and Johnson still would have been listed on the ballots. Plus, he like most of us probably thought Hillary had it right up until the last honest man in Washington dropped his turd into the punch bowl in late October.

  90. 90.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 8:02 am

    @Immanentize: Fuck you.

  91. 91.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 8:04 am

    @Butter Emails: Maybe nothing.  But I’m not interested in forgetting any of the men who created this hellscape, even the bit players.

  92. 92.

    MomSense

    September 3, 2020 at 8:04 am

    @Immanentize:

     

    @Baud:

    That’s more like it!

  93. 93.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 8:05 am

    @Betty Cracker: I really think Obama and Biden (and Michele and Jill) have won over W and Laura by just being kind.  And I am pretty certain Bush cannot abide Trump.    It would be a great statement to have all living former Presidents support Biden.

  94. 94.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 8:08 am

    @Baud:. Ha!

    And, Sorry, I forgot to not thank you.  ?(Just had to add a little Quinerly there)

  95. 95.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 3, 2020 at 8:09 am

    @Baud: ?

  96. 96.

    OzarkHillbilly

    September 3, 2020 at 8:10 am

    @Immanentize: Fuck off.

    ETA figures. Baud beat me to it.

  97. 97.

    Betty Cracker

    September 3, 2020 at 8:13 am

    @Immanentize: Agreed. If every living person who has held the job came out and said Trump isn’t up to it but Biden is, that would be a powerful statement.

  98. 98.

    Jeffro

    September 3, 2020 at 8:14 am

    @Gin & Tonic: congrats to him!

  99. 99.

    Mai naem mobile

    September 3, 2020 at 8:16 am

    @Immanentize: there is no way the Bush family sacrifices Bush Pee’s political future by having Dubbya endorse Biden. He called around to get votes for Kavanaugh and he’s working on getting Collins reelected.

  100. 100.

    Eural Joiner

    September 3, 2020 at 8:16 am

    @zhena gogolia: Yes! Exactly right – especially when I go to the bathroom in this really large, empty space….:O

  101. 101.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 3, 2020 at 8:18 am

    @mrmoshpotato:

    I’m not usually doubled over with laughter at 8:15 in the morning, but I’m gasping for breath after reading that! Priceless story!

  102. 102.

    Betty Cracker

    September 3, 2020 at 8:19 am

    Election Day is exactly two months from today. Election Day 2016 seems like at least 10 years ago, possibly 20. Will time stop telescoping into hellish infinity after Trump is gone?

  103. 103.

    Jeffro

    September 3, 2020 at 8:20 am

    @Baud:

    The impact of this unprecedented campaign by members of a political party to oppose one of their own running for re-election as president remains to be seen. Polls show that Trump still enjoys nearly 90 percent approval among the Republican rank and file.

    Other anti-Trump groups include 43 Alumni for Biden, comprised of hundreds of officials who worked for Bush, the 43rd president; Former Republican National Security Officials for Biden; and The Lincoln Project, founded by Republican political operatives.

    Biden & Co should run a ‘Star Wars opening crawl’ type ad with a list of all these “__________ for Biden” groups.  It’s getting kinda long.

  104. 104.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    September 3, 2020 at 8:22 am

    @Immanentize:

    A couple of days ago, I spent a solid 6-7 hours in various zoom hearings and meetings. My favorite parts of zoom so far:

    – 2 hours in a conference zoom with 12-15 other lawyers. At times, there were 3 different cross conversations among various participants as multiple cases were being dealt with. This was followed by about 40 minutes in the ensuing hearing, with 12 people participating (including 2 opiate addicts) and a fuzzy connection.

    – I heard a flushing toilet from an unmuted pro se participant on a motion docket last week.

    – One lawyer I know was treated to the sounds of boom chicka bow wow during a criminal docket a few weeks ago. Didn’t know if the participant was watching a porno or getting it on.

  105. 105.

    sherparick

    September 3, 2020 at 8:22 am

    @debbie: That is one of the marvelous thing about mail in ballots.  It is a paper record and the person sending it signs under oath that he or she is voter and this vote is there only vote.  When a voter votes, the register/election official checks the name off the roll for that precinct.  If a mail in vote comes in 1) it is not counted and 2) triggers a issue about the original vote.  Intentionally doing it is a felony and will get you prosecuted.

    However, there is a problem with people who maintain more than one residences in different states. Florida has been notorious for this because until recently, it did not share voter registration information with other states.  Also, it is not clear that “Double Voting” in this way (registering and voting in two different states where you have mailing addresses in both states) is always against the law as it depends on the states.

    https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/double-voting.aspx

    Obviously, this kind of voter fraud tends to benefit upper income voters who tend to be Republican. https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/morse/files/1p1v.pdf

    In the past, out of tens of millions of votes, a thousand double votes has not been a problem.  But of course the 2000 and 2016 elections were decided just by a few thousand votes.

  106. 106.

    Jeffro

    September 3, 2020 at 8:22 am

    @Mai naem mobile: Yup.  They’re trying to keep whatever they can of the ‘regular/normal/quiet-part-quiet’ Republican Party together, for the post-trumpov years.

    I hate to tell them, they’re not going to be able to put that Party back together again.

  107. 107.

    Brachiator

    September 3, 2020 at 8:25 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Very good news. Congratulations to your son.

  108. 108.

    Another Scott

    September 3, 2020 at 8:27 am

    Populism in Germany declines sharply, says Bertelsmann study
    https://p.dw.com/p/3hvZo

    Populism in German politics is on the decline after peaking in 2018, according to a study released Thursday by the Bertelsmann Foundation.

    Around 20% of registered voters in Germany are considered to have a “populist mindset,” which is a drop from the 2018 figure of 33% of voters who had such a view, according to researchers.

    […]
    Populist attitudes in the study include viewing politicians as part of a self-interested “corrupt elite,” rejecting compromise or supporting direct sovereignty through referendums. The study also analyzed populist attitudes “within the dimensions of anti-pluralism, anti-establishment, and homogeneity of the people.”

    Good, good. Here’s hoping that the trend grows world-wide.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  109. 109.

    cmorenc

    September 3, 2020 at 8:28 am

    @Jeffro: Biden only has to peel off 5 -7% of GOP voters to vote for him, who in any other election would have voted for the R candidate, to be fatal to Trump’s chances, irrespective of the 90% of Rs still firmly with him.   Trump also can’t afford to lose (by not turnng out) any of the normally less motivated-to-turnout white working class voters who deecided to come out for him in the upper Midwest during the last week of the 2016 election.

  110. 110.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    September 3, 2020 at 8:29 am

    @Jeffro: You know you don’t really hate to tell them

  111. 111.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 8:30 am

    @cmorenc:

    Yep.  It’s the same reason the GOP still tries to make a pitch to black voters.  And why the Russians targeted black voters in 2016.  Just to peel off a few percent.

  112. 112.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 8:30 am

    @Another Scott:

    Good.

  113. 113.

    NotMax

    September 3, 2020 at 8:30 am

    @cmorenc

    “Whaddaya mean boats can’t vote?”

    //

  114. 114.

    Jeffro

    September 3, 2020 at 8:31 am

    Here’s the biggest big-picture issue Democrats face: if we want progressive policies, we’re going to need much more progressive tax rates:

    Using conservative estimates, these ripple effects mean that each dollar of spending the state cuts leads to a drop of at least $1.50 in the gross domestic product, and there are reasons to believe that the drop is as much as $2.50. With state budget shortfalls forecast to approach $300 billion this fiscal year, a spending-cut-only approach to balancing state budgets will cause at least a $450 billion reduction in G.D.P.— more than 2 percent.  Tax increases, especially on high-income people who aren’t living paycheck to paycheck, are much less economically damaging, costing the economy only around 35 cents for every dollar raised.

  115. 115.

    Soprano2

    September 3, 2020 at 8:31 am

    I swear, NPR is getting on my last nerve. They had a story about Trump telling his supporters to vote twice, and they said “it appeared President Trump told people to vote twice”. No, you morons, it didn’t “appear” that he said that, HE SAID IT! Good Lord, why can’t they just say what happened? Why are they still carrying water for him?

  116. 116.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 8:33 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Sadly, Judges, Lawyers and clients are not often known for their tech literacy.  Did you see this recent lovely case in a federal sentencing order after a plea? After ranting online about convicts get too many rights and that Covid was a hoax and bragging about going to a maskless party, the newly minted convict moved to serve his sentence at home because of the virus threat.  Enter the sentencing judge:

    As a criminal, Mr. Hamm does have certain rights. At this point, Mr. Hamm’s rights include asking the Court to reconsider this decision, appealing to the Seventh Circuit, or asking President Trump for a pardon. But he does not have a right to not serve the prison sentence he agreed to because of a virus he does not believe exists.

  117. 117.

    MomSense

    September 3, 2020 at 8:35 am

    @Soprano2:

    Getting on your last nerve?

  118. 118.

    Jeffro

    September 3, 2020 at 8:36 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:  ?

  119. 119.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    September 3, 2020 at 8:36 am

    @Immanentize: Whose side are we on there?

  120. 120.

    gene108

    September 3, 2020 at 8:37 am

    Baby  laughing while getting a haircut. Worth the 0:33 seconds of your time.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwqIqX1oUt0

  121. 121.

    rp

    September 3, 2020 at 8:39 am

    @Betty Cracker:  That’s hilarious. Our boston sometimes likes to hang out under our bed with one leg sticking out. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  122. 122.

    MomSense

    September 3, 2020 at 8:41 am

    @Jeffro:

    Here’s an example of how fucked our state taxes are.  22,200 – 52,599 = 6.75%
    52,600 and UP = 7.15%
    Single tax bracket.

  123. 123.

    John S.

    September 3, 2020 at 8:41 am

    @Soprano2: Because they are Nice Polite Republicans.

  124. 124.

    NotMax

    September 3, 2020 at 8:42 am

    @Betty Cracker

    Next thing you know you’ll find them in there smoking and playing poker.

    ;)

  125. 125.

    frosty

    September 3, 2020 at 8:43 am

    @raven: Congrats on both anniversaries and I’m totally agreed on the suck-ass year.

  126. 126.

    Brachiator

    September 3, 2020 at 8:43 am

    I had to go to the local Kaiser medical office and saw that they have refined their Covid-19 screening. When you enter a nurse asks you the questions about symptoms, then when you enter the lobby you stand on a place on the floor with 4 orange dots and they use some electronic gizmo to take your temperature.

    For half a second, I imagined that a phaser blast would evaporate those with a very high fever.

    Later I stopped by my local takeout place and was told that the local health authority had made the owner shut down the self serve ice and drink machine over pandemic concerns.

    This is total bullshit. Drink machines have never been shown to be a problem. And it’s adding insult to injury since it’s expected to be hotter than hell in the Los Angeles area this weekend, with the temperature in some areas reaching 110 plus degrees.

  127. 127.

    narya

    September 3, 2020 at 8:43 am

    @raven: I started doing Pilates 6-7 years ago, in part because of low-level occasional lower back pain. Made a huge difference, not just with that but with overall flexibility (hint: I’m not flexible) and strength. I paid for 1:1 sessions, which has been worthwhile. Expensive, but still worthwhile. We’re now doing remote sessions, which is less satisfying (I don’t have the equipment in my home). There is a ton of stuff online, too. It has some cult-like aspects, but the basic work is really focused on functional ability. (I had done yoga for many years, but I like this better, tbh.)

  128. 128.

    Jeffro

    September 3, 2020 at 8:44 am

    @cmorenc: so true, great point.

    I wonder if anyone/any organization has looked in detail at the composition of trumpov’s current support?  I suspect he has lost more former “regular”* Rs than people think, while pulling in some additional infrequently-voting Rs, hardcore racists (who now know without a doubt that trumpov champions their cause), and QAnon wackaloons (who might otherwise not vote, or at least not vote for a major-party candidate).

    *I use the term advisedly, to be sure…’regular’ for them

    Then again, we already know that much of the GOP base is racist and believes in ‘Q’, so no point in wasting time on it.

  129. 129.

    frosty

    September 3, 2020 at 8:45 am

    @Immanentize: That sounds great! Takes me back to my own freshman year.

  130. 130.

    Betty Cracker

    September 3, 2020 at 8:46 am

    @rp: Ha! Must be a Boston thing. Our little guy is a burrower (throw pillows, blankets, whatever), and he always has at least one hind leg sticking out.

  131. 131.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 3, 2020 at 8:46 am

    @Baud: He has very mixed feelings about it, frankly.

  132. 132.

    Sloane Ranger

    September 3, 2020 at 8:47 am

    @Betty Cracker: Lord Peter Wimsey once explained that the secret of his family’s success was having a foot in both camps during civil wars and upheavals, That way there would be a Wimsey close to the seat of power whoever won, ensuring the family as a whole would thrive and survive.

  133. 133.

    Jeffro

    September 3, 2020 at 8:47 am

    @MomSense: That is nuts.

    It’ll take no small amount of courage, but Dems really need to get those increases in there a.s.a.p., and then be sure to show voters how a couple % points’ increase on folks making $400k+ produced simply massive amounts of revenue.

    And it ties in to everything, too.  Need billions to rapidly test for Covid at scale?  Want to pay teachers more and hire more of them?  Need subsidies for green energy?  I know where we can find that dough, and so do you, American voters!  ;)

  134. 134.

    Caravelle

    September 3, 2020 at 8:48 am

    That for Joe Biden made me tear up. I wonder if that was a deliberate Hamilton reference they made about Beau Biden’s death (if it was it was an appropriate and powerful one I think, but it could just be a common phrase).

  135. 135.

    Betty Cracker

    September 3, 2020 at 8:48 am

    @John S.: I don’t think they’re Republicans so much as believers in the aggressively stupid creed that holds if you piss both sides off, you’re getting it right. I’m constantly amazed by how many seemingly smart people believe that nonsense.

  136. 136.

    WereBear

    September 3, 2020 at 8:51 am

    @raven: Check out the Egoscue Method.

    You can diagnose and treat from the book and it’s done wonders for everyone I know who has tried it.

    Professional physical therapy person with his own approach.

  137. 137.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 8:51 am

    @Jeffro: 
    It’s hard for state taxes because it’s so easy for rich people to move to another state.

  138. 138.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    September 3, 2020 at 8:53 am

    @Jeffro: While we’re at it, let’s put some teeth in the inheritance tax too. Not only would that produce revenue,  but also it would lessen the power that dumdums like Kushner or Trump gain by inheriting large amounts of money

  139. 139.

    frosty

    September 3, 2020 at 8:54 am

    @Baud: Now THAT’s normal!! And the horse you rode in on.

  140. 140.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 8:55 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Inheritance taxes are the way to go, with so many rich old Republicans out there.

  141. 141.

    NotMax

    September 3, 2020 at 8:56 am

    @Sloane Ranger

    Shades of “There will always be a Vicar of Bray.”

    :)

  142. 142.

    Kay

    September 3, 2020 at 8:56 am

    @Jeffro:

    I think Kasich and Snyder were elected due to support by college educated white voters and that’s who might be moved by them denouncing Trump. Snyder was almost the opposite of Trump- he ran as a “nerd”, his whole pitch was “smart technocrat”. Supposedly. Really they both ran on Right wing magical economic thinking- you can have infrastructure and services and not pay for any of it. Snyder was SO smart he was going to figure out how to build roads for free, perhaps :)

  143. 143.

    Danielx

    September 3, 2020 at 8:59 am

    @Immanentize:

    Could be worse – my first roommate was a guy who had hair a half inch long at a time when hair to the shoulders was more or less the norm. He was going to major in forensic studies and his ambition was to be a state trooper. We were not sympatico.

  144. 144.

    Immanentize

    September 3, 2020 at 9:00 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I am using it as a critical cautionary tale to my students.

  145. 145.

    sanjeevs

    September 3, 2020 at 9:00 am

    Karl Rove laid out the Republican plan for the election in yesterday’s WSJ – litigate everything – signature matching for postal votes, deadlines etc . They’ll do this across all the competitive states.

    I hope the Democrats have a plan for this

  146. 146.

    raven

    September 3, 2020 at 9:00 am

    @WereBear:  thx

  147. 147.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 9:04 am

    @sanjeevs: I think the Dems are pretty solid in the litigation department.  They’ll be ready.

  148. 148.

    germy

    September 3, 2020 at 9:04 am

    Has this been mentioned in previous threads?

    Pelosi says hair salon should apologize for ‘set-up’ visit

    “I take responsibility for trusting the word of a neighborhood salon that I’ve been to over the years many times, and that when they said … we’re able to accommodate people one person at a time, and that we can set up that time, I trusted that,” Pelosi told reporters Wednesday. “As it turns out, it was a set-up.”

    “I take responsibility for falling for a set-up,” she said.

    An attorney for the man who did her hair also said Pelosi appeared to have been set up.

    Matthew Soleimanpour said his client received permission from the salon owner a day earlier to make the appointment.

    During that telephone call the owner, Erica Kious, “made several vitriolic and incendiary comments about Speaker Pelosi,” Soleimanpour said in a statement.

    “It appears Ms. Kious is furthering a set-up of Speaker Pelosi for her own vain aspirations,” the statement said.

  149. 149.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 9:06 am

    @germy: Today show did a bit of a hit job story on this, but at the end, they said that the owner gave permission to the stylist to contact Pelosi.  The stylist now has an attorney.  It’s a hit job, and I hope that all the facts come out and we go on offense with this.

  150. 150.

    germy

    September 3, 2020 at 9:08 am

    @Baud:  This morning is the first time I heard about the set-up.

    I was surprised yesterday at how big the original story was, all over broadcast TV news.  When the story was being framed as “hypocritical and vain Nancy violated her own rules” etc.

  151. 151.

    Kay

    September 3, 2020 at 9:11 am

    @Jeffro:

    I hope Democrats move away from means testing for public services. I think it’s dumb politically and bad public policy. All it does is silo lower income people in this group that “need help” and asks voters to support policy they don’t see any benefit from. It isn’t even true. The biggest beneficiaries of Medicaid aren’t necessarily poor people- they’re old people. Tell them what they get for their taxes. Bring them in to the group who benefit directly from increasing taxes. Who gives a shit if 150 millionaires benefit from free community college? The VAST majority who will benefit are lower income.

    I watched this up close. We added free preschool at the public school. It’s not means tested, same as K-12. Two things happened- higher income people supported it and higher income people sent their kids there. The school is 50% low income. The biggest winners in that are the low income preschoolers. Did it also benefit higher income families? Yes. But now the preschool program is NOT a “lower income” program and it is bulletproof. They’ll never be able to take it away. The vast majority of the families in this town use it.

  152. 152.

    germy

    September 3, 2020 at 9:11 am

    Fox News: “Salon owner decries Pelosi ‘set up’ claim as absolutely false”

    CBS: “Stylist Backs Up Pelosi’s Claim San Francisco Salon Visit Was a Set-Up”

    Who to believe?  Who to believe??

  153. 153.

    Danielx

    September 3, 2020 at 9:12 am

    @Baud:

    A “scandal” only a Villager could love.

  154. 154.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 9:13 am

    @germy: The media loves sticking it to the Dems, especially when they can spin it as Dems being hypocritical and untrustworthy.

    The real story is the salon owner’s deceit.  But the news doesn’t find that exciting.

  155. 155.

    TS (the original)

    September 3, 2020 at 9:16 am

    @Immanentize:

    More neighborly, less agitated and angry.

    Maybe it was the Wednesday Polls. Everyone on RCP has Biden ahead. A number of them have Biden at 50%+

    I wonder who Rassmussen Polls (White House Staff?)

    Trump disapproval goes from  +7 to +16  while Rassmussen has it at +1.

    And the Fox poll with Kelly 56, McSally 39 would make anyone (except maybe McSally) smile.

  156. 156.

    Suzanne

    September 3, 2020 at 9:16 am

    @Betty Cracker:  Does the room have a nice cool tile floor? If so, that’s your answer.

    I am exhausted. This year is wearing me out. Since June 2019, I’ve got a new baby, new job with new clients and projects, new (old) house, new city, new living arrangement for Spawn the Elder…. and a pandemic, with all that that entails.

  157. 157.

    Joe Falco

    September 3, 2020 at 9:24 am

    @Kay:

    Who gives a shit if 150 millionaires benefit from free community college?

    Hell, just giving their kids the option to be able to attend school without their parents threatening to cut them off if they don’t meet expectations is laudable.

  158. 158.

    Barbara

    September 3, 2020 at 9:25 am

    @Jeffro:

    The impact of this unprecedented campaign by members of a political party to oppose one of their own running for re-election as president remains to be seen. Polls show that Trump still enjoys nearly 90 percent approval among the Republican rank and file.

    It’s important to keep in mind that party affiliation is fluid.  A president should always have fairly strong party support because people who don’t support the president are much more likely to disclaim party affiliation.  Party identification is not fixed, especially compared to demographic traits.  Losing support by demographic groups is far more indicative of reality on the ground.

  159. 159.

    Booger

    September 3, 2020 at 9:27 am

    @Brachiator: Are these the self-serve ice machines which test higher for e.coli than the bathroom surfaces in the same facilities?

  160. 160.

    Ken

    September 3, 2020 at 9:27 am

    @Joe Falco: Plus, it will be so much cheaper for the millionaires, not having to “donate” $300,000 to the college so their kid gets in. Community colleges take anyone.

  161. 161.

    Suzanne

    September 3, 2020 at 9:29 am

    @Joe Falco: The other thing that does is dilute the spendy colleges as a class separator. We should actively want rich people to go to public institutions. They’re more egalitarian that way.

  162. 162.

    Brachiator

    September 3, 2020 at 9:31 am

    @Jeffro:
    Thanks for the great article link. There is much to get into, and much that is wildly incorrect. I think it is a great example of how even “smart” economists are thinking in wrong headed ways about the economy. They keep trying to look at it as though it is like a normal recession. Consequently, much of the recommendations about taxes is severely flawed.

    For example:

    But regardless of whether Congress acts, states and localities can bolster their local economies and support their residents by raising taxes on those who have not been hard hit by the recession. This is not only the right thing to do from a humanitarian standpoint, it is sound economics.

    I agree that state and local governments need federal aid. But the authors seem to ignore the simple fact that many state and local economies are still shut down. All of the economic activity that generated revenue from sales taxes has been artificially stifled. I think I read some economist call it a “demand recession.”

    So raising state taxes is not adding to other state revenue. It is substituting for revenue that normally flows into state and local coffers. And it would be taxing more of savings, reducing money that might otherwise be used for investing, or paying worker salaries.

    I don’t think that they authors have a grasp of the impact of the pandemic on the economy. I say this even though I admire much of their work.

  163. 163.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 3, 2020 at 9:34 am

    @Immanentize:

    But he does not have a right to not serve the prison sentence he agreed to because of a virus he does not believe exists.

    Thing of beauty, that is.

  164. 164.

    Kristine

    September 3, 2020 at 9:36 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Maybe they’re playing the long game.

    The wealthy–as opposed to the merely rich–have playing the long game in their genetic code. It’s all about self-preservation and retaining power.

  165. 165.

    Matt McIrvin

    September 3, 2020 at 9:38 am

    @sherparick: I think that in some states it’s possible to do a legal double vote. For instance, in Massachusetts, there’s a strict Election Day receipt limit for mail ballots, but there’s a tracking website and if they haven’t gotten your ballot by Election Day, you can vote in person.

    But the deadline is, I think, close of polls on Election Day. So what if the mail ballot arrives on Election Day itself? You could have also voted in person that same day, before the receipt was recorded in the voter rolls.

    (I’m a programmer; I think about “race conditions” like this a lot.)

  166. 166.

    Brachiator

    September 3, 2020 at 9:38 am

    @Booger:

    Are these the self-serve ice machines which test higher for e.coli than the bathroom surfaces in the same facilities?

    Interesting question. The store owner said that nothing was tested. He was just told he had to stop using the drink station.

    The health authority seems to prefer that canned and bottled beverages be sold.

  167. 167.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 9:42 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    You’re assuming they aren’t checking the mail in ballots to see if the voter had already voted.

  168. 168.

    Kay

    September 3, 2020 at 9:42 am

    @Joe Falco:

    When Whitmer ran in Michigan on “fix the roads” she didn’t say “in low income areas”, even though higher income areas with local road funding probably have better roads. She’s just fixing the roads. If they’re broken, she fixes them whether they lead into Detroit or Grosse Pointe. And it works out fine because lower income areas have lower tax revenue so will benefit more from any universal state subsidy. They get more anyway. If we didn’t have a public preschool here the higher income families would pay for private preschool. The lower income families wouldn’t go at all. They benefit more, and it isn’t means tested. Spend less time worrying about making sure higher income people don’t benefit and instead look at the benefit to lower income people. I feel like it came out of this really rigid way of looking at inequality- the same win/lose frame that created it in the first place. “Winners: poor people! Losers: people who will pay more taxes!” It can be more fluid than that. It IS more fluid than that. The model doesn’t even reflect current reality.

  169. 169.

    Joe Falco

    September 3, 2020 at 9:43 am

    @Ken: True. I’m more concerned though with the young adult who might be trying to escape from their family for whatever reason(s) but still wants access to higher education without being forced into debt. Just like what I’d want for anyone regardless of class or status. Maybe there would be less terrible people in the world if they don’t have to become terrible people to satisfy their terrible parents just so they can have a happy future. Or not develop mental disorders if they have to deny themselves e.g. hiding their sexuality or gender because their parents would retaliate and refuse to help them in their time of need if the parents found out.

  170. 170.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 3, 2020 at 9:48 am

    @Suzanne:

    Since June 2019, I’ve got a new baby, new job with new clients and projects, new (old) house, new city, new living arrangement for Spawn the Elder…. and a pandemic, with all that that entails.

    Thank heavens you’re living in a thriving economy, where the government is a smoothly-oiled machine, and your fellow citizens are invariably kind to one another, and you’re free to go anywhere you want….

    Um. Wait.

  171. 171.

    Aleta

    September 3, 2020 at 9:50 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:  Respect.

  172. 172.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    September 3, 2020 at 9:51 am

    @Suzanne: Holy cow. Your stress level must be through the roof. Take it easy on yourself.

  173. 173.

    Another Scott

    September 3, 2020 at 9:52 am

    @germy:

    Repost:

    A shame folks editorialized without actually sharing from the stylist. #Setup ? https://t.co/M5H6skLr6r pic.twitter.com/H6mGSpEwEA

    — Christine Pelosi (@sfpelosi) September 3, 2020

    Includes image of stylist’s letter.

    (via NotLarrySabato)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  174. 174.

    Aleta

    September 3, 2020 at 9:53 am

    I can’t quite believe that T will go through with a live debate.

  175. 175.

    O. Felix Culpa

    September 3, 2020 at 9:55 am

    Good morning. I’m too fried these days to comment much, but I continue to read more or less faithfully. These are stressful times, so take good care of yourselves.

    Also too, I think Jen Rubin may have had a genuine (and permanent?) Cole awakening: It’s not just Trump. All Republicans must go.

  176. 176.

    Kay

    September 3, 2020 at 9:57 am

    @Joe Falco:

    I had this hysterical conversation with a person who was getting the 600 dollar bump in unemployment benefits. I know him well and I know he lives with his well-off parents although he works a lower wage job. I don’t know if he has expenses- I doubt it. Okay he talks to me about money and he takes it really seriously and he told me he’s “building wealth” by buying stock with the extra money. I don’t care if he buys stock – I know that the vast majority of the people in this town are paying rent or a car payment with it. He can have the stock because giving the subsidy to most people makes the subsidy wildly popular and not a dreaded “poor people program” that can and would have been demonized. Bring poor people back into the “people” category. It’s not helping that they’re off by themselves.

  177. 177.

    Redshift

    September 3, 2020 at 9:58 am

    @Brachiator:

    Later I stopped by my local takeout place and was told that the local health authority had made the owner shut down the self serve ice and drink machine over pandemic concerns. 

    Hmm, I do wonder if it’s an issue with much lower traffic, so the drink machine gets resupplied and cleaned less often. I got takeout a couple of months ago at a place where I had a free refill cup, and the results were… not good.

  178. 178.

    Another Scott

    September 3, 2020 at 9:59 am

    @Brachiator: Trouble is, of course, that this unconventional recession caused by the pandemic lockdown is going to turn into a real recession/depression unless the federal government acts quickly.  Permanent layoffs are increasing, people are going to be losing their housing, real incomes are going to fall off a cliff, etc.  One can’t simply flip a switch if/when we have a good vaccine to make everything better again.  A lot of the Before Times jobs and economic activity are not coming back anytime soon.

    All because Moscow Mitch and his lackeys in the Senate refuse to do their jobs because OhNo helping the country will help Democrats.

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  179. 179.

    Baud

    September 3, 2020 at 10:00 am

    @Another Scott: That there is the real story.  Thanks for posting it.

  180. 180.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    September 3, 2020 at 10:02 am

    @Kay: Including everyone is what makes the difference in how many people regard Medicare and Medicaid. They’re far more willing to cut the latter.

  181. 181.

    Brachiator

    September 3, 2020 at 10:02 am

    @Redshift:

    Hmm, I do wonder if it’s an issue with much lower traffic, so the drink machine gets resupplied and cleaned less often. I got takeout a couple of months ago at a place where I had a free refill cup, and the results were… not good.

    Unlikely. I am double checking out of curiosity, but was told that the health people were going to every eatery that had self-service drink setups and shutting them down.

  182. 182.

    Joe Falco

    September 3, 2020 at 10:04 am

    @Kay:

    Bring poor people back into the “people” category.

    I second that.

  183. 183.

    sanjeevs

    September 3, 2020 at 10:05 am

    Chance of a Biden Electoral college win if he wins the popular vote by X points:

    0-1 points: just 6%!

    1-2 points: 22% 2-3 points: 46%

    3-4 points: 74% 4-5 points: 89%

    5-6 points: 98% 6-7 points: 99%

    https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1301190941110341632

  184. 184.

    Another Scott

    September 3, 2020 at 10:09 am

    A cautionary note about the unemployment numbers this morning. They (for good reasons) changed the way they are doing the Seasonal Adjustments so the SA numbers today cannot be compared to previous weeks. Using the NSA numbers shows the real trend.

    https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2020/09/weekly-initial-unemployment-claims.html

    The Not Seasonally Adjusted (NSA) claims increased to 833,352 from 825,761 the previous week. These are directly comparable since the Seasonal Adjustment Factor was identical for both weeks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  185. 185.

    Redshift

    September 3, 2020 at 10:10 am

    @Kay: Hear, hear! Liberals should be full-throated advocates of making things government services rather than assistance for the poor. Conservatives have been doing the opposite because they want to cut government and they know that makes it easier (because racism and poor-shaming). Too often people on our side are suckered into that to make a deal or to seem “responsible.”

  186. 186.

    Barbara

    September 3, 2020 at 10:11 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: I think the judge should decide based on whatever the real risks are.  The penalty for whatever offense he committed should not include heightened risks of death through infection.  He doesn’t deserve greater consideration but he doesn’t deserve less.

  187. 187.

    Kay

    September 3, 2020 at 10:12 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I wonder sometimes why Democrats are so shy about mentioning Medicaid and nursing homes. It’s a subsidy not just to the resident but to the resident’s family, who would either have to pay for care of their elderly loved one or care for that person themselves. We’re ALL benefiting from this, and in very direct ways. It’s not all generous that we’re paying for it- we use it.

    It’s this quiet, huge subsidy to a big group of people who are not “poor” yet Medicaid is always vulnerable to cuts because it’s sold and perceived as a poor person’s program. Just tell the truth! It’s not just for poor people!

    John Kasich put in free college in Ohio. College Credit Plus is a state program where any high school student who passes a test can take college credit classes free. Any. It is WILDLY popular. Does it maybe give some free college credits to better off students? Absolutely. But the benefit to lower income students is much bigger and it would have controversial and unloved if he has proposed it as a program for low income.

  188. 188.

    TS (the original)

    September 3, 2020 at 10:19 am

    @Brachiator:

    Unlikely. I am double checking out of curiosity, but was told that the health people were going to every eatery that had self-service drink setups and shutting them down.

    I think it’s the “self-serve” – anyone & everyone is accessing them. Cans/bottles are sealed when they get to you. In my part of the world, any type of self-serve/ food/drinks was shut down during restrictive conditions. Must admit I have no idea if they have since been allowed as things opened up.

  189. 189.

    catclub

    September 3, 2020 at 10:20 am

    @Kay: It’s this quiet, huge subsidy to a big group of people who are not “poor” yet Medicaid is always vulnerable to cuts because it’s sold and perceived as a poor person’s program.

     

    The person who gets the nursing home care paid for by medicaid is poor, since they have spent down virtually all their assets before they qualify.  But their children, can be definitely middle class and upper middle class. The ‘big group’ that is getting the subsidy is both the poor user and their kids.

  190. 190.

    Matt McIrvin

    September 3, 2020 at 10:21 am

    @Baud: No, I’m talking about the case where the ballot arrives in the several hours in between the printing out of the paper voter-roll lists that the poll workers check to see whether an in-person voter already voted, and the deadline for receipt of the mail ballots.

    They’ll detect the situation when they check and scan the mail ballots, of course. The vote won’t be counted double. I assume they’ve just got some consistent rule for deciding which vote to keep.

  191. 191.

    catclub

    September 3, 2020 at 10:22 am

    @TS (the original): I wonder how close you can get to a ‘no touch’ self service drink setup – all the customer touches is their own cup.

  192. 192.

    Miss Bianca

    September 3, 2020 at 10:25 am

    @Kay: I saw another article on this after a friend from my high school posted it on FB. Made me wish I could go back to my hometown, if only to visit Belle Isle again. Beautiful place, beautiful memories…now a memorial site itself.

    God damn the Trump Administration for destroying so many lives, hopes, and dreams.

  193. 193.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    September 3, 2020 at 10:27 am

    @Miss Bianca: When I was in high school, we used to skip and go over to Belle Isle. Beautiful place.

  194. 194.

    Brachiator

    September 3, 2020 at 10:27 am

    @Another Scott:

    Trouble is, of course, that this unconventional recession caused by the pandemic lockdown is going to turn into a real recession/depression unless the federal government acts quickly.  Permanent layoffs are increasing, people are going to be losing their housing, real incomes are going to fall off a cliff, etc.

    We have a problem no matter what. I agree big time that the federal government needs to help/work with states. But some creative solutions are needed as well.

    European governments are finding that their progressive policies that provided some job security for furloughed workers and support for small business only provided short term relief. As the pandemic drags on, businesses are laying off workers in large numbers. A British airline is cutting staff and also slashing salaries.

    One can’t simply flip a switch if/when we have a good vaccine to make everything better again.  A lot of the Before Times jobs and economic activity are not coming back anytime soon.

    I actually think that the economy will bounce back big, but very unevenly.  There are still industries that practically no longer exist. I’m in the Los Angeles area, and it shocks me that movie theaters are still gone, and all those workers without jobs. Equally bad, there are movies that have completed production, but if they were released to streaming only, the realized losses on blockbusters would be astounding. Hospitality and leisure is still down, air travel is down to a trickle.

    And yet home sales are still strong, as is the market for used automobiles (and unfortunately people are avoiding public transit in droves). Net saving is much stronger than before for many income groups. I think that there is a considerable amount of pent up consumer demand, and this could lead to significant new spending, which may in turn produce new jobs.

    But obviously, there are a lot of people barely hanging on. In reading economic news and listening to some business podcasts, I make note of every time an economist notes that they are “surprised” at some positive economic result.

    The pandemic economy is something new.  Even the Federal Reserve is rethinking some of its past policies.

    Current and former Federal Reserve officials say the timing of its interest rate hikes between 2015 and 2018 may have been a mistake, a rare moment of humility spurred by the Fed’s adoption of a new framework for approaching inflation.
    Lael Brainard and Richard Clarida, both serving on the Fed’s Board of Governors, said this week that the Fed may have curbed a quicker post-2008 recovery in the job market by lifting off of zero interest rates too soon.

    I hope this also leads them to consider pandemic-related policy more carefully.

    ETA: I also recall seeing that the IRS has predicted that 37 million fewer Forms W2 will be issued for tax year 2020. This may presage a significant decrease in federal and state tax revenues. Again, it’s tough to read the signs and make any conclusions about where the economy is headed.

  195. 195.

    catclub

    September 3, 2020 at 10:28 am

    @Matt McIrvin: I assume they’ve just got some consistent rule for deciding which vote to keep.

     

    and since your in-person vote has been (effectively? actually?) dropped into the tabulator immediately, i figure THAT is the one they keep.  There is really no way to pull that one out without violating any ballot secrecy.

  196. 196.

    Ken

    September 3, 2020 at 10:28 am

    @catclub: I wonder how close you can get to a ‘no touch’ self service drink setup

    Not while children exist.

    Also many restaurants have drink machines with touch-screen controls, so you can mix your own ginger-lime diet cola.

  197. 197.

    TS (the original)

    September 3, 2020 at 10:30 am

    @catclub:

    all the customer touches is their own cup.

    They could sneeze on the machine?

    I don’t know how different your self serve is to the few I have used, but it was easy to touch much of the machines. I use them so infrequently I usually start banging things because I don’t know how they work.

  198. 198.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 3, 2020 at 10:34 am

    @sanjeevs:

    Chance of a Biden Electoral college win if he wins the popular vote by X points:

    0-1 points: just 6%!

    1-2 points: 22% 2-3 points: 46%

    3-4 points: 74% 4-5 points: 89%

    5-6 points: 98% 6-7 points: 99%

    If ever there were an argument to vote, even if you think your vote is superfluous or won’t count … this is that argument.

  199. 199.

    Matt McIrvin

    September 3, 2020 at 10:36 am

    @sanjeevs: For what it’s worth, Sam Wang roughly agrees about the location of the threshold:

    https://election.princeton.edu/2020/08/31/even-odds/#more-24208

    Adjusting for the EC bias is what his “Meta-Margin” is about

    And, as he says there, this is all without adjusting for “Trump cheats”.

  200. 200.

    Jeffro

    September 3, 2020 at 10:38 am

    OT but I am listening to Larry Sabato opine about the ‘post-truth’ era and um well it’s disappointing.  It’s a “just the way things are” kind of mentality as opposed to the press and pundits having any role or agency in shaping perceptions, accountability, etc.

    Maybe I just need more coffee…grrrrr…

  201. 201.

    Chief Oshkosh

    September 3, 2020 at 10:39 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Now THAT made me laugh. Back the howling pack of jackals.

  202. 202.

    Miss Bianca

    September 3, 2020 at 10:39 am

    @O. Felix Culpa: Damn. I think maybe you’re right. She’s moving from Never Trumper to Democrat in All But Name! Come on, Jen – take that last step, we’re all waiting to welcome ya! : )

  203. 203.

    Jeffro

    September 3, 2020 at 10:39 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: YES

    That, and stepping up on IRS enforcement by oh a factor of 10

  204. 204.

    Jeffro

    September 3, 2020 at 10:40 am

    @Kay: everybody loves a free lunch, even college-educated techno-nerds.

    “No more magical thinking!” = great for democracy, governance.  Not so great for winning elections, unfortunately.  =(

  205. 205.

    Chyron HR

    September 3, 2020 at 10:41 am

    @Kay:

    Only Nixon Republicans can go to China socialist handouts.

  206. 206.

    Mike in NC

    September 3, 2020 at 10:43 am

    Media reporting that people are starting to die from attending the imbecile 400K biker rally in Sturgis. Whocouldaknown???

  207. 207.

    Jeffro

    September 3, 2020 at 10:44 am

    @sanjeevs:

     

    @Baud: trumpov & Co are going to try and cause as much chaos as possible, and then try to wear us out (w/ litigation, calls for violence, etc).  Can’t happen, won’t happen.

    This is why Clinton already publicly said, ‘Biden should not concede’.  He’s going to win, so I hope she means he should not concede one iota one inch one issue, about any of it.  Any fishy, super-close vote totals this time around and he shouldn’t concede then, either.

  208. 208.

    Jeffro

    September 3, 2020 at 10:45 am

    @Kay: Agreed.  Don’t means-test the access to services…just get those highly progressive tax rates in there and the rest takes care of itself.

  209. 209.

    Brachiator

    September 3, 2020 at 10:45 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    While we’re at it, let’s put some teeth in the inheritance tax too.

    Yep. This needs to be revisited, along with everything else the Republicans crammed into their last tax cut bills. Trust vehicles that let people shift income around to be sheltered need review as well.

  210. 210.

    A Ghost To Most

    September 3, 2020 at 10:46 am

    @NotMax: There will always be a Dread Pirate Roberts.

    Rackets persist.

  211. 211.

    Matt McIrvin

    September 3, 2020 at 10:51 am

    @Jeffro: Hillary’s way out ahead of things, giving true warnings that sound insane, as usual.

  212. 212.

    The Moar You Know

    September 3, 2020 at 10:55 am

     

    Later I stopped by my local takeout place and was told that the local health authority had made the owner shut down the self serve ice and drink machine over pandemic concerns.

    This is total bullshit. Drink machines have never been shown to be a problem.

    @Brachiator:  I can well believe that the local health department shut his machines down…but not due to the pandemic.

    Used to clean them when I worked at McDonald’s back in high school.  I have never gotten fountain drinks or soft-serve anything since.  We cleaned them right and I still thought they were pretty sketchy from a food safety standpoint.  A place that doesn’t clean them right – and that’s most places – is a constant low level disease vector not on many people’s radar.

  213. 213.

    Matt McIrvin

    September 3, 2020 at 10:55 am

    @Redshift: While I agree that universal services are preferable to means-tested ones, I’ve also noticed some purity-pony advocacy here from the extreme Bernie crowd that seems to prefer nothing at all to means-tested services. Especially when bashing Democrats for having supported means-tested services in the past.

  214. 214.

    L85NJGT

    September 3, 2020 at 10:56 am

    @MomSense:

    One degree of separation now – nephew managed a week at state U before testing positive.

  215. 215.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 3, 2020 at 10:58 am

    Boy, even MSNBC is kind of ganging up on Nancy Smash for getting her hair washed. She’s “defensive.” That was ugly, and disappointing.

  216. 216.

    japa21

    September 3, 2020 at 10:58 am

    @catclub: In Illinois,  if you were sent a mail in ballot, unless you bring it into the polling place with you, you can only vote with a provisional ballot.  If when the deadline for receipt of mail ins arrives and your ballot hasn’t,  then the provisional gets counted.  I anticipate a high number of provisional ballots.

  217. 217.

    L85NJGT

    September 3, 2020 at 11:00 am

    Largest balance of trade deficit with China since 2008. That man truly knows the art of the deal.

  218. 218.

    Brachiator

    September 3, 2020 at 11:02 am

    @catclub:

    I wonder how close you can get to a ‘no touch’ self service drink setup – all the customer touches is their own cup.

    Variations of these drink machines are used in most movie theaters these days.

    I wonder if health officials will impose new restrictions on food and beverage service here, especially if more movie theaters ever re-open again.

  219. 219.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 3, 2020 at 11:03 am

    @L85NJGT:

    Does he have symptoms? Hope he’s okay and is able to flunk the test with flying colours in a couple of weeks!

  220. 220.

    Another Scott

    September 3, 2020 at 11:06 am

    @The Moar You Know: OTOH, my dad told a story once about getting lunch at a local family owned eaterie where he and some buddies would regularly meet.  Getting unsweetened tea poured from a pitcher and dipping his spoon in to stir it and lifting the spoon out with a nice mat of algae/mold/something growing on it.

    :-/

    The waitress sheepishly brought him a fresh glass…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  221. 221.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    September 3, 2020 at 11:08 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Yay! glad he got the job.

  222. 222.

    debbie

    September 3, 2020 at 11:13 am

    @Aleta:

    I heard that he’s implying an unnamed moderator will not be fair to him.

  223. 223.

    L85NJGT

    September 3, 2020 at 11:14 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Cold symptoms with chest pain for a couple of days.

  224. 224.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    September 3, 2020 at 11:15 am

    @Matt McIrvin: I don’t think her warnings sound insane at all, I didn’t think they sounded insane back in 2016, Trump had business ties to Russia and so did Jared, that the press and the public ignored.  Calling him Putin’s puppet was right on the nose.

  225. 225.

    Brachiator

    September 3, 2020 at 11:17 am

    @The Moar You Know:

    I can well believe that the local health department shut his machines down…but not due to the pandemic.

    I think this was the claim. The pandemic. But I will actually double-check the next time I stop by.

    Used to clean them when I worked at McDonald’s back in high school. I have never gotten fountain drinks or soft-serve anything since. We cleaned them right and I still thought they were pretty sketchy from a food safety standpoint. A place that doesn’t clean them right – and that’s most places – is a constant low level disease vector not on many people’s radar.

    I’ve read somewhere that McDonalds is good about maintaining these machines. From a quick random search.

    McDonald’s also controls freshness by cleaning everything daily. Letting syrup sit in hoses and machines allows it to chemically degrade and for bacteria to grow. Keeping everything clean also keeps it fresh and tasting good.

    But even though customer access machines are being shut down, many eateries use similar machines to serve the takeout window. And variations of these machines are used in movie theaters and other places.  And yet, I’m not seeing that people are dropping with illness.

  226. 226.

    L85NJGT

    September 3, 2020 at 11:17 am

    @The Moar You Know:

    I stopped with the quick-e-mart fountains when I noticed I ALWAYS got an acid stomach from them.

  227. 227.

    Ruckus

    September 3, 2020 at 11:20 am

    @raven:

    Sorry about the leg. I see neuro regularly, less now than in the last 4 yrs, partially about the pains I have. Mostly very short term, often rather severe pains, in extremities. This a sometimes effect of diabetes, which they tell me I’m not so everyone seems stumped. But our bodies can do funny/not so funny things to us, rather than for us. And from my experience, debbie is likely right, if normal PT does nothing, neuro is your next stop. Good luck with finding a cause and cure. BTW if they want to do a nerve conduction test, when they did that on me, my response was “Mother Fucker,” rather sharp and loud. Didn’t even get a rise out of the attending but the resident watching/learning was surprised. The voltage is not high, the shock is administered say in the calf, but they measure it at the farthest point from the brain, your foot and your verbal response lets them know that it also went the other way. I had good transmission. Very, very good.

  228. 228.

    germy

    September 3, 2020 at 11:21 am

    The salon owner is now looking for donations.

    Of course.

    The grift is underway ??‍♀️ pic.twitter.com/R6zVDy5uId

    — Parker Molloy (@ParkerMolloy) September 3, 2020

  229. 229.

    Geminid

    September 3, 2020 at 11:22 am

    I remember reading this political/economic definition in the Farmer’s Almanac: “Democracy is a system in which everyone gets ahead, and no one is left behind.”

  230. 230.

    The Moar You Know

    September 3, 2020 at 11:26 am

    Boy, even MSNBC is kind of ganging up on Nancy Smash for getting her hair washed.

    @SiubhanDuinne:  She fucked up.  She was going to be a prime  target for exactly this sort of ratfuckery and she fell for it.

    I hope other Dems are seeing this and taking notes.  When people are gunning for you, don’t make yourself a target.

  231. 231.

    Elizabelle

    September 3, 2020 at 11:31 am

    @Betty Cracker: 

    They’re den dogs! They found them their den.

  232. 232.

    J R in WV

    September 3, 2020 at 12:08 pm

    @raven:

    I’ve done a ton of PT for a wide variety of injuries and issues, so please allow me to make a suggestion. Stop exercising until it hurts, start working in small increments that don’t get you to that point. Run a quarter mile out and come back, sit and admire a tree. After a while, do it again. Same in the pool. And don’t use the locker-room, put on some sweats and go home.

    You aren’t a young stallion any more, we’re both old now, and need to husband what we have left to work with. I can work hard, still, but I better not go for a 6 or 8 hour day if I can avoid it, or I’m trashed the next day or two. A couple of hours and I’m OK in the morning. Yes, it takes longer to get stuff done, but so what!? At least I’m still vertical and cooking dinner.

    Ozark, blech right back.

    Fuck Nixon, and LBJ too! We outlived both those crusty bastards, that’s a win in my book!

  233. 233.

    catclub

    September 3, 2020 at 12:14 pm

    @Geminid: I like HL Menckens, too.

    Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.

  234. 234.

    jc

    September 3, 2020 at 12:34 pm

    Dear President Obama, respect, dignity and decency are noble traits. But this country is in a full-blown crisis, and the “we go high” approach is nice, but it’s a bit too nice when your opponent is a raging, amoral monster, who spits on niceness and following rules.

    When a cop is dealing with a low-down criminal, they don’t “go high,” they bust their ass and make them face justice. The law is the law, and Trump and his crew think they’re above it. And if they successfully steal this election, we can kiss goodbye the rule of law in America. Every rotten thing we’ve seen over the past four years will be set in stone as acceptable, and it will get ten times worse.

  235. 235.

    MisterForkbeard

    September 3, 2020 at 12:39 pm

    @The Moar You Know: The local Targets have done this too.

    My understanding is that while it’s not required it’s one of those “Hey, you should really have your customers avoid touching things other customers touch if at all possible”.

    Maybe it is actually health-dept mandated. Many of them went beyond what you think you might need, because that’s prudent in a pandemic situation and there’s an easy workaround here: Have the employees do the soda and ice.

  236. 236.

    Kathleen

    September 3, 2020 at 2:00 pm

    Deleted. Not worth the energy.

  237. 237.

    J R in WV

    September 3, 2020 at 2:05 pm

    @Chief Oshkosh:

     

    @OzarkHillbilly: Now THAT made me laugh. Back the howling pack of jackals.

     

    I have worked really hard to not tell people to get fucked so often as I used to. Not even with a rusty farm implement, which slogan I love to use on Republican wack-a-loons. Now I just pie idiots.

    I don’t hesitate, I just do it, because it is so easy to undo. After a few days or a week or two, I toggle them to see if they still enrage me, if not I un-pie them. The pup-cake and the kitten cake are both so cute, and the Sea Lion Chow is LOL funny for some commenters.

    Some times, though, there is nothing else to do than to call a spade a spade and tell someone to fuck right off…

    Thanks to Cole for creating such a forgiving space!!

  238. 238.

    Matt McIrvin

    September 3, 2020 at 2:32 pm

    @The Moar You Know: She fucked up by being a woman and a Democrat. Anyway, she’s a good lightning rod for this kind of thing, since she’s a non-Presidential-candidate in a safe seat. It’s probably better for us if she’s attracting the aggro.

    I haven’t even bothered figuring out what this haircut thing is about because ginned-up scandals about Democrats’ haircuts are a whole genre of bullshit.

  239. 239.

    rikyrah

    September 3, 2020 at 3:08 pm

    @Immanentize:

     

    Just so happy to hear it :)

  240. 240.

    rikyrah

    September 3, 2020 at 3:10 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    That sounds so cute :)

  241. 241.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    September 3, 2020 at 3:38 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Roll with it and put a dog bed in there.

  242. 242.

    Ruckus

    September 3, 2020 at 4:01 pm

    @Brachiator:

    My boss says that he always done well in a turn down. Till now. Been there just over 7 yrs and we’ve always had work lined up. Till now. We manufacture parts and tooling for a number of industries, healthcare and agriculture among them.

    The last 3-4 weeks we’ve been seeing a slowdown and my work hrs have been cut back. The only real reason I mind is that I’m trying to build my bank back up from the last recession so that I can retire because I’d really like to not have to go to work any longer, even part time. I’m 71 and still producing but it’s getting to be less and less desirable to get up to an alarm clock and go to work after 6 decades. I’d planned to work for 7 more months and that would be it, but now I have no idea what is going to happen, not even really able to guess what. And I’m not in as bad a place as many are.

  243. 243.

    Ruckus

    September 3, 2020 at 4:07 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    I’ve often wondered how many are injured/die from drunken motorcycle operation from The Ride. And now a new way to die from Sturgis, an invisible virus that feeds on closeness and exposure. WhoCoudaKnown?

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