To be honest, the only thing that has changed now that we have proof Trump was lying about the virus is that he moved ever so slightly towards evil on the stupid/evil continuum, which in his case is just a circle.
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PsiFighter37
Oh no, he’s definitely stupid first. That man couldn’t fucking negotiate his way out of a paper bag.
germy
Woodward will be on 60 Minutes this Sunday, interviewed by Scott Pelley.
debbie
Yep, all the way back to the 1980s, when he thought he could charm the Russian bankers into forking over all the cash he wanted.
Steeplejack (phone)
@germy:
Oh, jeez. Just the thought of that combination . . .
rikyrah
Bob Woodward ain’t shyt.
He sat on this while 190,000 Americans have died so that he can sell a book.
Phuck him and his mama.
Emma from FL
@rikyrah: Co-signed. Creep.
TS (the original)
Meanwhile back at the wapo – the US political media is its usual self. The updates on the Biden election campaign today
Biden removed Redskins logo from family photo
Biden mixes up military and Michigan in citing number of dead from covid-19
Biden slams Trump’s comments about playing down coronavirus dangers: ‘It’s beyond despicable’
Princess
Trump lied about COVID to protect the stock market. That’s it. That’s why 195,000+ died.
Mike in DC
A modest erosion of Trump’s numbers (say, 5-10%) makes the difference between a decent sized win and a huge one with long coattails. Some of that number may switch to Biden, some may vote 3rd party, and some may just stay home. 9 out of 10 of his supporters are impervious to facts, reason and logic, but some of them are not. And I suspect this stuff is finally starting to stick.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@rikyrah: Yup.
Cacti
Woodward had this audio 3-weeks before the first death was recorded.
And as bodies piled up in the thousands, he still decided “Let’s see how this plays out.”
Fuck him.
Mary G
@rikyrah: This. The families of at least 150,000 people who died unnecessary deaths and the million or two who’ll have to live the rest of their shortened lives with heart or lung or brain damage should sue Woodward for every penny he has. Yes, I know that isn’t a legal cause of action, but he still deserves to be shunned and berated when he shows his face anywhere in public.
gwangung
@Mike in DC: I think there is no single revelation that will turn core Republican voters away from their candidate. None.
The best you can hope for is a gradual leakage…some votes here…some votes there……It’s just that Trump has so MANY flaws that they’re adding up to a veritable flood now…
Kent
@rikyrah: What do you actually think would have happened if Woodward would have given an interview in March? Absolutely fucking nothing. Not one single life would have been saved.
The whole country and whole world knew exactly who Trump was. We had just finished up Impeachment. The whole world also knew he was lying about Covid. We had PLENTY of experts and scientists who knew exactly how much Trump was lying. It’s not like he had some presumption of truth and competence going into the pandemic that was destroyed by his performance during the start of the pandemic.
There were plenty of people in government and in high positions of credibility and authority within the country’s public health system. It was their job to inform the country how much Trump was lying and what should actually be done. Many of them did.
Not trying to excuse Woodward. He obviously has his own agenda. But I’m not unhappy this stuff is coming out now with the election approaching, rather than something that was totally old forgotten history by November 2. In fact, I hope the Pentagon big wigs who can call bullshit on Trumps claims to respect the Troops schedule their pushback for Mid-October when they can Comey his ass before it all falls into the Trump memory hole.
In fact I almost wish Woodward had waited until October 15 to release his book for that reason.
Geminid
@Mike in DC: Any candidate grabbing trump’s coattails is liable to find they have grabbed an anchor.
Mike in DC
@gwangung: Herbert Hoover retained 75% of the people who voted for him in his reelection bid. I think we could peel off a few percentage points from his total support–they either switch, vote 3rd party, or stay home. Not every supporter is a fanatic.
lofgren
In Trump’s case, the stupid-evil continuum is a Klein bottle.
Martin
I think people are missing how narcissists work. Trump is a self-described germaphobe.
I’m sure at least some of this, if not a lot of it, was Trump creating a new reality to protect him from his own fears. Did he lie? Sure. Does he know he lied? Probably not because everything he does is to protect himself, including the awareness that he lied.
That’s not a defense of him, merely an observation that he’s unfit for a job like this. And we’re all paying that price.
scav
How many additional circles of hell are we up to for housing Conservative-American pundits, politicians and enablers?
geg6
@Kent:
It’s not so much the book as the damned tapes. Every time Cheetolini opened his mouth to lie, Woodward should have released him saying exactly the opposite in private. Jesus. I would have done it on the off chance it might save a life or two. I cannot fathom the depths of monstrousness it takes to keep it to your self all this time, damn the political consequences. People are dying and being rendered permanently disabled. I’d have done anything within my power to avoid that.
Spanky
@Kent: Thank you! My thoughts exactly. If he had a big article out in March with this revelation, not one fucking thing would be different in the government’s non-response. Not.One.Fucking.Thing.
And I too am kinda disappointed that this couldn’t wait another 3-4 weeks.
piratedan
been seeing some spin stating that the Dems downplayed the Virus as well and I sit here and wonder that you know… maybe if DJT had done something Presidential and clued them into the data that he had, maybe.. I dunno just maybe there could have been an effective national response. I love how that the Dems are supposed be omniscient about this stuff when they’re effectively blocked from the flow of information, you know like Obama did with the killing of UBL, the Russian meddling in our elections and the GOP… NOPE. It’s really tedious to see these jackholes on TV come on there and say this shit without acknowledgement that one side plays by established norms and the other side always insists on them whenever they are out of power…. but its never acknowledged.
Calouste
@scav: They’re all in the ninth circle, and as they don’t really care about building codes and fire regulations over there, no need to make additional space.
Mike in NC
First there was the report on Putin’s putting bounties on Americans in Afghanistan. Then the ‘losers and suckers’ business in France. Now this bullshit about “not wanting to cause a panic”. Fat Bastard is simply a coward who’s afraid of his shadow. In the next several weeks we’re going to find out even more outrageous stuff about this deranged oxygen thief.
Roger Moore
Evil/stupid isn’t a continuum; they’re more or less orthogonal.
Omnes Omnibus
The fault is still Trump’s.
NeenerNeener
@gwangung: I’m afraid you’re right. Several Trump/Pence lawn signs popped up on my street this week. They obviously don’t care about “the troops” or COVID-19 either.
Mary G
Lincoln Project is on it – in his own words, with dates. Damning.
Patricia Kayden
Kent
@geg6: He was lying every damn day on live TV all through March. I still don’t think any “gotcha” tapes from Woodward would have made the slightest damn difference.
What having an ACTUAL book allows him to do is make the round of TV interviews and actually draw attention to what he is saying. Just like the Cohen interview on Maddow yesterday. She had him on to actually talk about his book.
The fact that Woodward now has a book out allows the press to frame this whole thing with some context rather than just another 1 day story about how shitty Trump is, which everyone already knows.
Martin
@Kent: Yeah. We had experts telling us the truth, and a group of people decided to do the opposite. That’s not a problem Woodward could have prevented. There’s nothing here we didn’t know before.
Woodward didn’t kill 190K people – Trump did. Don’t take that blame off of Trump and his followers.
Trump has completely broken the role of the 4th estate (with some of their own help). Trump outruns the daily news cycle. You can’t make an impact at that level. I’m not sure how you do it, but this labor day full-court press might work. We have, what, 6 books in 2 weeks views on vets, Covid all brought forward – this concentration of focus. May not work, but we’ll see.
Calouste
The Dow Jones lost more than 30% of its value in a few weeks? Wait, …
Kent
@geg6: I dunno. My opinion is that there are no referees anymore and you don’t get any points for being right or “owning” Trump. Impeachment ain’t gonna happen again before the election. The only damn thing that matters is the vote count in November. And whatever is most strategic towards that end is what I’m in favor of.
The whole country has had Trump dead to rights on a bazillion different lies including on tape and it hasn’t really made any difference in terms of getting him removed. In fact, most of his most flagrant lies are right there in the open. The only thing that matters is November.
MomSense
@rikyrah:
Word. Fuck trump and Woodward.
hueyplong
@Martin: Make no mistake, if there’s a hell, Woodward is going there, but having this drop as early voting is about to start is a good thing. COVID as “hoax” from March got memory holed and this would have, too.
AnotherBruce
@rikyrah: I don’t know what set me off into chuckling land with your comment. I think it was because “phuck him and his mama” made the ph comment sound more dirty.
HinTN
@scav: Driftglass can tell you.
RaflW
Trump tried to regain the news cycle by saying that he thinks whipped reduced fat hydrogenated part cotton-seed oil spread* Ted Cruz would make a good replacement for RBG.
If that doesn’t turbocharge Planned Parenthood donations, as well as Emily’s List and any even modestly pro-choice Dems, nothing will. Can you fucking imagine?
*because I can only say oleaginous so many times before I bore myself
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@Princess:
Trump lied about COVID to protect the stock market [because he thought that was his only avenue to another term]. That’s it. That’s why 195,000+ died [for his ego].
/fixed
Martin
@Patricia Kayden: It’s not *our* panic. It’s his. A pandemic would panic *him* and he is incapable of thinking that we might be stronger than him.
Kathleen
The latest from Maggie Haberman:
“Sources say Trump grew morose at the prospect of losing many of his voters from Covid before the election but remained steadfast in his resolve not to panic the American people.”
Princess
On the other hand: I don’t know what announcing that Cotton and Cruz are Trump SCOTUS picks does other than energize Democratic voters. Surely anyone who they would persuade on the GOP side is already on board. And Cruz almost lost in Texas so he’s hardly universally popular even in the GOP.
Mary G
He went to Jared!
Ken
No additions needed, the eighth circle has always been there for frauds, and the ninth for traitors.
Pundits and enablers would likely be the eighth circle, either the eighth bolgia of evil advisors (who are merely on fire) or the second bolgia of flatterers (who suffer a far more horrible punishment).
ballerat
Been calling this a genocide for months. Didn’t need fucking Woodward’s tapes to figure that out.
Some of you keep saying Trump is more stupid than evil. That just lets him off the hook.
We know he arranged for tens of thousands to die. Tens of thousands more died while he stood watching with the means to save their lives in his hands. He did this for his own benefit.
What’s the threshold for evil when mass murdering? That first unit of 100,000 dead? Passed that toll a while ago. A quarter mil? Well, we’re going to see that too, and more.
He’s as evil as any of the perpetrators of the worst genocides in history. He just happens to be stupid too.
Mary G
@Kathleen: Maggie is #2 behind Woodward on my shit list of journalists who seek to make money and personal fame; damn the public interest.
Jeffro
a FLAT circle!
Or in his case, a flat, orange, skimming, traitorous, racist, rapist, ignorant, incompetent, circle. May the GOP forever* be stained by enabling him.
*or at least for 100 American Voter Memory Units (AVMUs), enough for us to repair the damage and maybe even move the country a little bit forward for once
Yutsano
I just listened to Claire McCaskill blow up about this. She needs a better word than stupid for Dolt45. Ye gods does that moniker fit him now.
hueyplong
@Mary G: We’re to the point at which Kushner is much more reliably wrong about everything than Bloody Bill Kristol ever was.
Jeffro
Biden & Co: “Can you imagine limping along like this as a country for four more years? Being abused like this for four more years?”
Not a hard sell there…
Chuck
@Princess: boom, absolutely right – no way could he face the inevitability of the economy taking a major hit, no way he would act to get ahead of it, just not in the guy.
Wyatt Salamanca
“If you are unable to simultaneously hold in your head the ideas that Trump is a vile, racist fascist with blood on his hands and that Bob Woodward is a vile, greedy pandemic profiteer who failed to meet the most basic standards of journalism, please see yourself out of my feed”
john r stanton
h/t https://twitter.com/dcbigjohn
h/t https://apnews.com/99916044401d8f8e24eb7bedfec1d5d2
Aleta
Parker James Asmann @PJAsmann
Roger Moore
@gwangung:
Again, though, “core Republican voters” are not enough to win; they’re maybe only 40% of the electorate. To win, Trump needed to keep some marginally attached voters onboard. It was losing those marginal voters that really cost the Republicans in 2018, and if we keep hammering him on everything that’s wrong with him we can keep those voters detached in 2020.
Calouste
@Martin: Indeed. The shitgibbon panicked and was telling himself lies to make it go away. Didn’t work funnily enough.
I think there is a decent chance that he will have a meltdown before the election. Not show up at a debate with some lame excuse or something like that rather than something public most likely.
MomSense
@ballerat:
Yeah he’s stupid, but his own description of the virus to Woodward was accurate. I’ve been saying for months that they are trying to kill us.
Sister Golden Bear
What a bizarre day. It’s 5:15, but with the permanent Mars twilight, it feels like I pulled an all-nighter.
JMG
Bob Woodward is the venerated patron saint of every inside the Beltway big-time both-sides reporter. For him to end a book with “Trump’s unfit to be President” will affect the coverage of the rest of the campaign in the Post, Times and all the networks, broadcast and cable (except Fox of course). That is the value of this book.
Yutsano
Oh and Senator Kennedy can find the nearest fire and fucking die in it. Looks like the official talking point is out. Fuck all of them.
Elie
@Kent:
Agree… I also note the horror of the impact of holding onto the information — but if you are going after the “King” with a hit, the timing has to do maximum harm. Like you say, October would have been good but I like this, following on a constant train of shyt from the info about his disrespect for the military — keep up the pressure. I want him to fucking RESIGN. He won’t but that is what I want and what I want leaders to begin demanding. Trash. Take out the fucking trash.
Martin
@Calouste: I’ve been saying from the beginning, Trump is probably going to get carried out of the WH. I stand by that.
schrodingers_cat
@MomSense:
@rikyrah: I will add my voice to yours, fuck Woodward. Sat on a story that could have saved lives to make money from a book.
NotMax
OT as to the virus, on topic as to the stupid.
“Stable genius” strikes again: toll booths.
Elie
@Yutsano:
I agree with you. The man is just EVIL. What he is doing — aiding and abetting — is worse than the original evil — I would be afraid of the fates and justice — VERY afraid
BruceFromOhio
@rikyrah: This.
If Woodward were a baseball card, it would take fifty or sixty to equal one David Farenthold.
Princess
@Calouste: I read today that Trump has not done one scrap of work to prepare for the debates. Now maybe that’s a lie told to lower expectations. But I can believe it’s true and his staff is leaking it because they don’t want the blame when he falls on his face.
jonas
Trump was very confused and thought he was talking to the special plush toy he confides everything in. For Woodward to exploit a dementia-addled old man like this is reprehensible.
Elie
@schrodingers_cat:
The souls of the murdered will call out for justice. You watch — the fall will be horrendous. The Greek goddess Nemesis is lining up the fall… Hubris is not just in Greek tragedy….
Elie
@jonas:
Bullshit. An evil man is receiving his just desserts. May he burn in hell — slowly….
Jeffro
@Patricia Kayden: that’s just an excellent tweet.
People don’t panic when steady leadership gives them the facts, hope, and a plan.
Spanky
@Martin: And if it takes two or three trips I’m down with that.
Dan B
@Martin: I agree with you and Kent that a big reveal about Trump’s wanting to “avoid panic” in February or March would have most likely gotten little traction. Most people have to experience dusaster viscerally and there is no memory of the Spanish flu except for people like me who had a parent that barely survived and made sure we knew all the stories and all the data from an early – impressionable – age.
I’ve got strong memories of AIDS and the crazy rumors, responses, and non-responses. Reagan didn’t say the word AIDS until long after Rock Hudson and other friends of theirs died. Leaders wanted all gay men quarantined. It was promoted for years even after health experts stated the obvious; if you lock people up millions will go underground. It hasn’t been a surprise there are tens of millions who deny facts and embrace crackpot theories. It happens all the time in crises and in every institution. Our military, the business and financial sectors, and the fourth estate can’t see the cliff ahead if the Trump administration is not stopped. They’re busy looking at the next quarter. And they’re trapped in the myth of “exceptional America the bastion of Democracy”. There’s little exceptional about our core institutions at the moment.
Gvg
Those audio tapes of Trumps actually sound more intelligent and coherent than I usually hear From him. Therefore I am back to he is doing it on purpose.
as for Woodward’s timing, we had already had 3 years of people revealing damaging stuff about Trump that didn’t change his numbers. The interviews started right after impeachment when we had actual whistleblowers and impressive competent officials and it didn’t work. Aiming for the election was the only thing left to try.
the details about hacked Florida county voting machines is also really important to me. There have been non specific rumors for years. This named which counties. That will help verify things. Finally.
Elie
@Princess:
I think that there is a better than even chance Trump will “loose it” during the debate… 25th amendment y’all. Pence is drooling with hope ….
Jeffro
Why would be prepare? he’s Superman, isn’t he? //
He’ll just put Tara Reade, an ‘Angel Mom’, and a cardboard cutout of Beau Biden in the front row of his reserved seats and think that’ll win the day. What scum.
ballerat
50. @Jeffro
Abused is the exact word.
Trump is first and foremost an abuser. An emotional, physical and sexual abuser of the weaker, the youngest, the vulnerable and the less powerful.
Jeffro
@ballerat: I do wish Biden & Co would use that word more in their ads, etc.
But they seem to be doing pretty well without my assistance, so… =)
Aleta
The result of the BW tape release is Trump calling up his reserve distraction swarm. Releases ridiculous list for SC; gets (pays?) far right Norwegian to nominate him for coveted Swedish gold medal; more to come tomorrow. Probably another feel-good story about women and work, illustrated with Ivanka accessorized and walking.
jl
@Martin: “I think people are missing how narcissists work. Trump is a self-described germaphobe.”
I have to wonder how much of Trump’s behavior was also due to being a depraved and incompetent swindler. We have that self-confessed motive of avoiding panic, but also the reported one of hoping it would blow over and not hurt the false notion of a special booming Trump economy and so as not to hurt his re-election chances.
So, was he telling a total or just a partial lie to Woodward?
Also, in the Woodward tapes, Trump still doesn’t seem to understand how infectious disease works, and thinks it’s just fifteen cases, and they’ll get better and the whole thing would go away. By then, several good studies had shown that there was a lot of spread from pre- or asymptomatic cases, and only about 5 to 15 percent of them would be ID’d at any point in time so there were really between 100 and 300 cases running around spreading the disease.
Also, several good studies, which turned out to be accurate, that the disease could spread to any country in the world and establish itself in two to three weeks. So, Trump’s wonderful terrific ban in entry from Europe was way too late.
I have to believe Fauci, Birx, and Redfield tried to explain this too Trump, but probably it didn’t get through.
Edit: knowledge of ascertainment rate of 5 to 15 percent and likelihood of very rapid spread around the world was public in several peer-reviewed publications and high quality pre-prints between Jan 25 and middle of February.
Jeffro
@Elie:
I would be surprised if he even shows for the debates. I definitely cannot see him showing up for debates #2 and #3 after Biden reduces him to a sputtering pile of orange nonsense in #1.
I sense that Harris is more than ready for Pence and yet, in the moment, dealing with such a bold, up-is-down liar in the moment is tough. Don’t get Kaine-ed, Senator!
Gin & Tonic
I posted in a dead thread downstairs, somebody on Twitter said Woodward is the Walter Duranty of the coronavirus pandemic. Harsh, but hard to say it’s wrong.
BruceFromOhio
@gwangung:
Based on the number of Trump signs on my travels in the buckeye, I don’t think anything will turn these fascists away. “I get to hate on the browns and the poors because Daddy said so!” is a powerful siren that the weak-minded can fully embrace, no matter how abusive Daddy is to the family.
I seriously accept the scenario that preznit shitwhistle could chew the head off the nearest person at any moment, and the death cultists would cheer and start sharpening their teeth. Double-plus good if its a reporter.
The poor bastards will require de-programming treatments to be able rejoin humanity, just like any other cult. Pshaw, like that’s gonna happen. “Ah ain’t wearing no may-ask, ah got rahts!”
Jeffro
@jl: it never occurred to him that handling it – transparently, competently, and with significant resources, attention, and the guidance of experts – might send his poll numbers soaring.
Never even dawned on him. It was just “DONTSPOOKTHEMARKET THEMARKETISEVERYTHING TOMYREELECTION!!!!!1!!”
Americans died for the Dow because trumpov decided to put himself first, full stop. He couldn’t conceive that if he really wanted to put himself and his re-election first, he’d actually want to put the health of the country first.
I hope he has plenty of time to think about it after November…
Amir khalid
@rikyrah:
When he and Carl Bernstein were covering Watergate, they wrote stories to run in the Washington Post, and then they published their bestselling book. in the run-up to Nixon’s resignation, they wrote some more stories to run in the Washington Post, and then they published another book. So it’s not like it was impossible to break a big story to the public and then do the book.
Kay
That was important to me, though. I feel I know him better now. He’ll kill 200 thousand people to retain power. That’s good to know! Info we need, I think.
SiubhanDuinne
@ballerat:
According to your linked list, we seem to be in a race to overtake the Armenian genocide — and we’re rapidly gaining.
zhena gogolia
@Jeffro:
Hunter, not Beau, please.
NotMax
@Gvg
From what I’ve read it was voter registration databases which were infiltrated, not voting machines.
As voting machines in operation have no online connectivity, damn improbable to issue an execute command bringing malware out of hibernation, especially in any sort of precinct-targeted way.
Kathleen
@Mary G: I loathe her and love to mock her. Helps me channel my anger.
Bill Arnold
@Princess:
Worse than that. A lot worse. He delayed the stock market panic so that his “friends” (these are “transactional friends”) could profit from the panic.
OK, I’m conjecturing that was a motivation but dues are high at Mar-A-Lago and Bedminster for a reason. :-)
Kathleen
@MomSense: I’ve been saying it since the early 2000’s and whenever I said it my liberal friends would look at me askance and tell me I was being hyperbolic.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jeffro:
Tucking this away to use on a sign at the next march.
BruceFromOhio
@Yutsano:
“These piles of dead Americans don’t interest me much.”
The drones have received their programming for this topic now.
Kathleen
@Elie: I agree with you!
Kay
Let’s just drive around and blast this from pickup trucks to get out our voters.
ENRAGING how entitled and arrogant these people are. So, so convinced they’re smarter than everyone else.
Gin & Tonic
Wasn’t this asshole supposed to be taking a break from Twitter to concentrate on his family?
Kathleen
@Elie: The only time Pence drools is when Mother Pence dons her “Women of the Waffen SS” shiny jack boots.
Mai Naem mobile
@Jeffro: I think when your loved one or you yourself gets hit with COVID you stop poo poohing COVID. I know 3 people who’ve gotten hit by COVID and it whoops your butt hard. I’ll guarantee you Orange Lumps followers who’ve been personally affected by COVID are not going to ignore this stuff.
RedDirtGirl
@rikyrah: Ditto!
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic:
He’s been dipping back in. These news stories are too delicious to resist.
Baud
@Mai Naem mobile: His real supporters are happy that the libs are upset again.
Viva BrisVegas
I don’t really know if this is still longer true, but didn’t the voting machines get their updates via USB stick?
I seem to recall that the Stuxnet virus was propagated through Iran’s unconnected computers this way.
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia: Tells us how important his daughter’s emotional health is to him.
schrodingers_cat
@MomSense: As have I. Its not stupidity its malevolence. Every step he took and the lies he told has added to the death toll. It is deliberate.
zhena gogolia
jl
@Jeffro: Several other large countries didn’t pay enough attention to that early research, for reasons that escape me, and paid or horrible price. A few did, and they are the ones who did really well early on, Mongolia and New Zealand are two.
So, even a half-decent job with a fumbling start would have been enough to make Trump look very good. He didn’t have to do anything really, just call the CDC, USPHS and NIH honchos into the Oval Office and tell them to handle it and tell him what to say after they finished speaking at the pressers, tell him what to sign. Would have been the least effort option, with best results. Any ordinary fool would have taken it.
MagdaInBlack
@Jeffro:
This is what amazed me. All he had to do was the RIGHT thing, and he would sail ( god help us) to re-election. And NONE of them thought of that.
ballerat
56. @MomSense
Yes, he is trying to kill us. And has succeeded on a historic scale.
He is indeed stupid, but not mentally incapable. But evil AF.
pattonbt
We all know, if trump had wrapped up some basic precautions (masks, social distancing, etc) in flag and country from jump street (privately telling the monies interests “it’s going to be bad regardless but we show lip service resolve to addressing this and we win four more years”) he’d be being hailed as a saviour of America. Because the democrats would do the right thing since they’re not evil. Honestly, Trump would be cruising to re-election.
But he is the scorpion and it is his nature to destroy things.
different-church-lady
Just gotta keep peeling away swing voters little by little. This will peel away a few more.
debbie
@ballerat:
What, he can’t be both? He’s always been evil, but he has also always been stupid enough to think he could succeed at anything, whether it’s real estate development or the presidency.
schrodingers_cat
I wrote this in May
Is there a bounty for every dead American? It would be irresponsible not to speculate. Because he is literally killing his base. If you look at the raw numbers older white people make the biggest proportion of the casualties.
WaterGirl
@Spanky: A whole lot of people will have voted by the end of October. This timing is probably better, especially if more information comes out.
Shalimar
@Mary G: Maggie Haberman is 46. Donald Trump Jr. is 42. Maggie’s mom works for a company that started doing Fred Trump’s PR in 1973 and continued under Donald. Maggie grew up knowing the Trump family. She has access because Ivanka et. al. have known her their whole lives.
Wag
@Elie: I don’t want him to resign. That’ll just open up the election for the GOP to come back.
I want Trump crushed
PPCLI
@JMG: Yes! This is important to remember. Let’s stipulate, as the lawyers say, that Woodward is a bad person who has done a bad thing. But let’s take that as a datum, and consider what’s in his book.
The fact that he and Bernstein brought down Nixon has served to disguise the fact that Woodward is/was an establishment Republican. He protected Republicans. His book on Iran-Contra pulled all its punches and ended up putting the lion’s share of the blame on a dead guy, based on an iffy “deathbed confession”. It is a big deal that he is saying openly, and without pulling any punches, that Trump is unfit. It’s a big deal that he has Mattis saying flatly that Trump is unfit. That an old-school Republican like Dan Coates said he was convinced Putin had something on Trump. Etc.
There is a lot of damaging stuff in this book, and Woodward is a messenger establishment people listen to. Let’s just press that home, and curse Woodward when the election is over.
Patricia Kayden
WaterGirl
@Yutsano: Wow.
Immanentize
@Jeffro: I am angry with you. You broke the margins. And for no good reason at all.
SiubhanDuinne
@Yutsano:
“These ‘gotcha’ books don’t really interest me that much.” Rinse and repeat.
Mary G
@Sister Golden Bear: My cats are pitching a hissy fit because it’s getting dark earlier due to all the crud in the air and they think it’s past their 7 pm snack time. I’m 90 miles west of the El Dorado fire. We only have a few ashes falling, and no red skies so far, but helicopters have been coming and going all day. either scooping up seawater or patrolling for new fires in the hills back of us. The wind here is only 8 mph, and humidity is high (70%) . A real Santa Ana would be a disaster.
schrodingers_cat
I am so old that I remember when the MSM including the normally staid Snooze Hour lost their shit because of Ebola. Just compare the MSM reactions to the two pandemics under 2 presidents, one black and one white.
Patricia Kayden
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Someone should do a side by side video.
kindness
I thought what Trump said about veterans & military service people was worse than his lying about Covid-19 but that’s just me.
WaterGirl
@Gvg:
What did I miss?
Immanentize
@different-church-lady: This is the clear goal. Peel away at whatever margin exists.
MisterForkbeard
@Kathleen: please tell me that’s not an actual quote. What the holy sycophancy, batman!
Gvg
@Mai Naem mobile: Co worker I know had it, said 3 people from his church have died so far. A lot of real religious people I know are really involved in their church community. My mother is on various committees that arrange flowers or food for the sick that don’t have family close. They count their friends. They really miss church and just going, but they don’t deny when they lose someone. My Uncle and his wife have it, he is a retired minister. Evidently he found it just impossible not to go to a service when requested. He isn’t conditioned to say no, he is always supposed to comfort and they caught it. All the rest of his life he was trained to always be a good person who showed up for all these events. He couldn’t break the habit when a virus changed the rules. People who are actually sincerely religious not hypocrites are going to erode from supporting him.
Churches are full of older people too.
i just wish I thought they would see through the other republicans. The pro life brainwashing has really hooked a lot of them in.
Shana
@debbie: Hubby and I are about 5 episodes in to Mr. Sunshine and in an earlier episode a pawn broker tells a noblewoman who’s trying to pawn a jade ring in order to pay her gambling debts “If you don’t know who the patsy is in a game, then it’s you.” Your comment made me think of that.
lowtechcyclist
All Woodward’s tapes change is that Trump knew how bad the coronavirus was in February, then went into denial and did nothing.
We already knew Trump knew how bad the coronavirus was in April, then went into denial, did nothing, and actively interfered with the states that were trying to minimize the effects of the virus. I’m not seeing the additional two months as much of an issue by now.
Either way, he should have been impeached over Covid-19 months ago, and every time a GOP Senator showed his face, people should be asking him if he would still vote the same way, given the tens of thousands of additional Covid deaths since then.
Mary G
@Amir khalid: There are no publishers/editors like Katharine Graham and Ben Bradlee anymore. Decisions are made by MBAs who were maybe communications majors in undergrad.
The Moar You Know
@Omnes Omnibus: Exactly. Bob Woodward has no power or role in the federal government. Donald Trump is in charge of all of it.
jl
Trump did pay attention to some important aspects of pandemic control, like whether docs and nurses and troops were ratfinks who were fencing Trump regime provided PPE and ripping him off.
NotMax
@Viva BrisVegas
Yes, in a roundabout (and now known, so a method to be on the lookout for) way. The malicious coding ended up on the USB sticks by hacking the online computers of outside firms which produced, maintained or repaired the non-connected units in Iran.
Testing and confirming the integrity of USB sticks deployed by voting machine providers is not an involved and difficult procedure.
Mary G
I bet you can all guess who’s the lead byline in the top story:
(Robert Costa, Conservative Whisperer)
geg6
@Amir khalid:
Exactly. Woodward is scum. Bernstein was the talent.
kindness
@Mary G: Where I live (Modesto) my car was covered thick in ash this morning. Had to hose it off. When the Santa Cruz & South Bay fires were going we didn’t see the sky for 2 weeks. Then we got sky again for a week and now it’s back to grey with an orange ball where the sun should be. Everything smells like a fire. I think it’s from the fires east of Fresno now.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
Not a helluva lot, frankly. Here ya go.
schrodingers_cat
@Mary G: He was on Snooze Hour too making excuses for the Orange One.
Immanentize
@different-church-lady: To add:
hitless
@Kay: It’s also important to know that the action he takes in a crisis is to lie. He doesn’t attempt to accomplish something real and actually solve the problem. All he can do is run a scam.
Another Scott
AL’s 2nd Coronavirus-tagged post is here – https://balloon-juice.com/2020/01/26/the-wuhan-coronavirus-saturday-sunday-update/
It has a link to this tweet:
Even in January, there were indications that masks were likely important.
Of course, Donnie knew this. Of course he did nothing, because he enjoys thinking that he’s smarter and better than all the Looosers out there. (Look at the recent report of him making fun of the preachers that were praying over him as soon as their backs were turned…)
That said, Woodward had a duty to come forward sooner than today.
Grr…
Cheers,
Scott.
schrodingers_cat
Woodward and these other “reporters” sitting on news to write their precious books is what is wrong with the fucking media. Just because the Orange person is a terrible president doesn’t give them a pass.
More people would have been alive today if this had come out as news in say March
He is a media creation. They are his biggest base and enablers outside the elected Republicans.
Bill Arnold
@ballerat:
Global heating could easily end up killing 4 billion humans. That would be 400 holocausts in raw numbers. Trump’s withdrawal from the Paris accord could easily kill several 10s or even hundreds of millions of humans, especially if he somehow retains power.
The SARS-CoV-2 pandemic itself has had prompt effects that have not yet been properly quantified; effects on lethal levels of air pollution in many cities, on GHG emissions (fossil fuel demand shocks, including travel/commuting and shipping), on auto accident deaths, etc. Longer term: the long term effects of SARS-CoV-2 infection survivors look potentially really bad. The effects of the COVD-19 pandemic on global heating depend a lot on the politics of economic recovery around the world; stimuluses that build more coal plants: bad. Stimuluses that build out more renewable generation/help break carbon lock-in: good.
NotMax
@NotMax
Slight addendum for clarity.
Testing and confirming the integrity of USB sticks deployed by voting machine providers against a vetted pristine benchmark version of the data is not an involved and difficult procedure.
WaterGirl
@Immanentize: I added spaces in order to un-break the margins.
Gvg
@WaterGirl: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article245597985.html
WaterGirl
@NotMax: thank you!
Immanentize
@WaterGirl: I heart you!?
I negative heart margin breakers!?
Nelle
@NotMax: We don’t know. It is a mess of different machinery, different practices, confusing programs for the machines, and a welter of different regulations. All the better for hacking them, my dear, says the wolf with a leer
I was disappointed when Obama said, right after the election in 16 that the vote wasn’t hacked. That is part of the vaunted myth that we are so very, very special, and like Gore in 2000, it is the myth that we will always have peaceful transitions that we have to keep alive. Obama couldn’t have known that soon that there was no there there, in terms of hacking. I have uncomfortable memories of the Ohio vote in 2004. Kerry told us he would fight for accuracy and whoops, he folded too.
piratedan
@lowtechcyclist: granted, I understand the caveat…”by now”, at the time though, I was building hallway bed locations for my hospital system to begin the challenge of tracking these patients in case our system got swamped… but I’m thinking about things like directing the PPE production to be amped up, actual travel restrictions, national mask mandates, adopting tracing protocols at the national, state and local levels, supporting what the CDC was recommending, adopting the WHO testing protocols, so there wasn’t a mad scramble for home grown testing….. and the number of people gone now because none of that happened… I know, its would have, could have… all in the misguided notion that a healthy Wall Street was more important than a healthy you and me…
Barbara
@piratedan: Just canceling Mardi Gras celebrations would have saved lives.
Immanentize
@Nelle: most states have one program, one vendor and one software package. Therefore, just use one specific update software program per update. NotMax (if not Max, who?) I think is correctly describing the ease with which usb delivered update software (when not internet/cloud based) can be tested for virus/bugs and deviation from system norms?
Gvg
@schrodingers_cat: he is not actually a reporter or editor anymore. Retired.
he is giving interviews about why he waited. He says Trump lies and he couldn’t verify that what Trump said was based on legitimate info until months later.
not sure I can accept this, but Trump does just pull stuff out of the air or use Qannon nut stuff.
i have other reasons to not like Woodward. But maybe reporting on Trump is difficult. He should have blown up from any one of these types of scandals before he ever won the last election. I don’t understand why nothing has worked till now.
I think I will wait and see what else comes out and if this really hurts Trump.
schrodingers_cat
@Gvg: Its not just Woodward, NYT has had several reporters write books instead of reporting news when it happened.
NotoriousJRT
@rikyrah:
Exactly. It’s grotesque.
NotMax
@Immanentize
And need not involve anything approaching line by line comparison. Step the first (numbers pulled from thin air for purposes of example):
Benchmark version: 223 MB
Ostensibly same data on USB stick 223.2 MB
Red flags immediately go up.
.
piratedan
@schrodingers_cat: and while Woodward is essentially “retired”, the MO is the same, gain access, learn something important, sit on it, publish tell all book, rake in cash, damn the consequences….
apparently we don’t pay journalists enough if they feel compelled to let the rest of us fend for ourselves instead of informing us about what is taking place…
Amir khalid
@Gvg:
True, but that doesn’t get him out of his obligation to share with the public what urgently needs to be public knowledge.
Immanentize
@piratedan: As someone on Twtr said, in an alternate universe, Bob waited until after the election to publish his book and everyone in that universe wishes they were in this one.
WaterGirl
@Immanentize: Just sent you an email message.
Immanentize
@WaterGirl: waiting to receive….
ballerat
111. @debbie
Sure he can be both. I said as much:
“He’s as evil as any of the perpetrators of the worst genocides in history. He just happens to be stupid too.”
[alas, clicking the reply button does not do the linked @nym thing in my comment for some reason.]
DesertFriar
Vote totals from St. Lucie County Fla. in 2016
Candidate Party Total
Donald J. Trump REP 19,564 48.18%
Hillary Rodham Clinton DEM 19,539 48.12%
Sorry if this has been posted before
Immanentize
@WaterGirl: hmm. Nothing. Gmail?? Two “j”s?
Bill Arnold
@Elie:
Νέμεσις is [annoyed] with a lot of current hubristic perpetrators of injustices. (Not least that her wikipedia page was edited to remove her name except in a footnote.) She [likes] balance, and balance there is not.
ballerat
95. Kay
For Trump, smart means breaking the law and getting away with it. Tax evasion, blackmail, fraud, money laundering, assault, rape, genocide: state or federal, misdemeanor or felony, it don’t matter, he’s gotten away with it.
That makes Trump smart in a shitpile mobster conman’s world.
Obama didn’t crime even when it was a lead-pipe cinch to get away with it, as it’s not illegal when the president does it.
That makes Obama dumb. And a sucker.
Also, Obama’s black. So no matter what Trump will always believe himself to be smarter.
Kay
@hitless:
I did know that, though. I don’t know why more people don’t talk about the extreme laziness of the Trump Administration. They never do any work. The last thing I remember them affirmatively doing is caging children.
Even this covid shitshow wasn’t an action, it was inaction, unless you count lying about it. WTF do they do all day?
Kay
@ballerat:
I’m so, so sick of them calling everyone stupid.
Jared bragging that Trump somehow tricked Democrats into defending Baltimore. WTF does that even mean? In Jared’s world attacking a US city is smart? Why is it smart?
I would be horrified if Democrats shit all over Baltimore, like the Trump Administration did. I have nothing against Baltimore. Does this idiot think there’s a large group of people who have a particular hatred for Baltimore, Maryland?
Kay
@ballerat:
Did Jared say that about Baltimore because it’s a BLACK city? Is that the ultra-genius subtext there? We were all supposed to join the low quality Trump hires in shitting on Baltimore because black people live there? That’s super SMART in Trump world. They laid a TRAP with that Baltimore thing! Democrats feel right into it and stupidly defended an American city!
sherparick
Every six hours there is another titanic that would by itself have sent any other President to resignation and the last helicopter ride. But this is now an authoritarian leader, followed by an authoritarian party organized strictly on Wilhoit’s Axiom: We are the in Group, based on wealth, White identity, & male patriarchy & service to it, and the law protects but does not bind us; the rest of you are the Others, who are bound by the law, but not protected by it.
sherparick
Meanwhile, one of Senator Thom Tillis’ best people also proves one can be both stupid and evil:
ballerat
40. Martin
This is a great point. When he talks of panic, he means his panic. This virus will kill my re-election! Because it’s always about him. And it’s always projection.
Kay
@sherparick:
The Trump people aren’t going to prison for killing 200,000 people, or colluding with Russia or any of that. They’ll go to prison for something petty and greedy and gross, something like stealing tens of millions in campaign funds, which it looks more and more likely they did. It was always money they wanted. There was never anything bigger. They’re small people.
WaterGirl
@ballerat: I have been noticing your replies, and wondering whether the reply feature is no longer working for you on the device you are using.
Let me know if there is a problem with it, please. thanks
WaterGirl
@sherparick: Oh. My. God.
Steeplejack (phone)
ballerat
171. Kay
You got me there. Looks just damn stupid to me. But I’m not a white-supremacist ass-sucker of Trump.
I don’t know much about Baltimore. Is Baltimore a predominately Black city? If it is then yes they think it’s an ultra-genious move.
They think super smart move to shit on Balitimore. Because their base will love it. Because their base sees the Black people living in it and thinks Baltimore is not an American city.
You, me, the Democrats, Black people. We are not considered real Americans. They deny we have any legitimacy to govern this country.
Jared thinks this is ultra-jenius. In the same way Wile E. Coyote is a genius and thinks the Acme trap is going to work too.
RaflW
[edit: wrong thread, but at least the related topic]
To the OP, you know who I don’t think was unaware of the impending Woodward firestorm?
Kelly Anne Conjob. She left just in the nick of time. What a coinkydink!
rikyrah
@sherparick:
That has to be an ad??
JCNZ
@rikyrah: Didn’t trump say in May or June that he always knew it was a pandemic? That observation was out of date within hours. At least Woodward’s late revelation means it might have an impact on the election, amirite?
JCNZ
@Mike in DC: Agreed.
Bruce K
@Kay: Capone went to prison for tax evasion, but prison is prison. If Trump dies in Sing Sing while serving a sentence for a New York crime that’s less than the hundred-some-odd-thousand cases of murder by depraved indifference he should be rotting for, then he still dies in prison.
I’m not betting on it, but maybe my wish will be answered and I’ll live long enough to make that pilgrimage to the prison cell where he died.
Kathleen
@MisterForkbeard: Thread is dead but no, it’s my version of how Maggie will spin this.
SWMBO
@Martin: Michael Che has pointed out numerous times over the last few years that Trump is not a germophobe. A germophobe would not raw dog porn stars and hookers. This is a lie. It is a Trump lie and it is persistent. It is part of his “persona” that is his public front. He’s no more a germophobe than he is a successful business man. When I say that I usually get pushback in the form of the story about the bleeding old guy at Mar a Loco. He’s squeamish over the sight of blood. He probably faints. And that is a weakness he can’t have stick to him.
GrueBleen
@Kent:
So “the whole world knew Trump was lying” ? So how come the whole world doesn’t know he’s still lying now ? This is Trump, who lies every time he opens his mouth or flexes his twitter fingers. Every. Single. Time.
So why would anybody believe that anything he told Woodward is/was “the truth” ? Is Woodward somehow some holy spirit that can get Trump to be truthful ?