I followed the negotiation of the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA, Iran Deal) very closely and wrote quite a lot about it. I think that was before I became a front pager here. There were great wars on Twitter about it, in which I fended off, with Jeffrey Lewis’s help, three AP reporters and two editors. They had a vested interest in disinformation that their Vienna correspondent was peddling. And there were others, like the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, whose objective, still, is to trample Iran into the dirt.
The JCPOA is a well-crafted piece of statesmanship. Iran has responded quite moderately to Donald Trump’s withdrawal from it, but Trump has put us in an unstable situation. Fortunately, the other parties have kept their heads, no doubt hoping that the US will have enough sense to elect a president who knows what he is doing.
Joe Biden released a long statement on Iran and the JCPOA today. It’s very good. Take a look.
kindness
Gotta love Uncle Joe. He sure will be a healing balm so long as we can overcome the Republican and Russian rat bonking.
Matt McIrvin
Good but I don’t see realistically how we un-fuck this chicken. Why would Iran have any reason to believe we wouldn’t just elect another Trump and put the whole thing back at square one? It’s the general problem of US international relations at this point. No one has any rational reason to trust us over the long term.
Chief Oshkosh
Solid statement, and actually not very long. Also, a good reminder of how normal people think and write.
Trump is such a godawful fuck-up, it’s hard to remember normal.
Chief Oshkosh
@Matt McIrvin: Good points. I think that if we actually investigated and prosecuted Trump and his ilk, and really punished them, we would gain back some of what we’ve lost with international partners. It should be one of the driving factors in Biden’s diplomacy approach.
Hell, I suspect putting Donny in an orange jumpsuit would garner several Nobel Prizes (Peace, Medicine, more) and several reunited friendships. If they could manage to slap Putin hard and politically crap on Boris and Bibi without harming their populaces, Biden and Harris would be hailed as world saviors.
TS (the original)
Off topic but sort of related
What is going on with China? From my local press
Do foreign diplomats write op eds in local papers attacking the country where they are? This upends my idea of what Ambassadors are supposed to be doing – or am I naive?
Betty Cracker
@Matt McIrvin: I share those concerns. I’ll never trust us again, so it’s hard to see why anyone else would. But on the other hand, Iran has incentives to accept a deal — even knowing we’re just one election away from reneging — and so do U.S. allies on this specific issue. It alleviates the pain in the here and now. That said, some things are probably lost forever, such as basic trust in U.S. sanity and competence.
Gin & Tonic
@Chief Oshkosh: And if I had wheels I’d be a bus.
Omnes Omnibus
@Gin & Tonic: Not true, you might be also be a wagon, motorcycle, tram, etc. Why do you want us to think you would be a bus? What’s in it for you?
raven
@Betty Cracker: The Kurds keep trusting us.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: What about a train, trains have wheels. Why do you hate trains?
Omnes Omnibus
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Trams are kind of train.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: I’d think you’d be in favor of buses, since ‘bus’ is in your nym.
Omnes Omnibus
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I will cut you.
Roger Moore
@Chief Oshkosh:
FWIW, I think the obvious candidate for this year’s Medicine Nobel is WHO. They’ve obviously done important work on COVID, and picking them will rightly be seen as a rebuke to Trump’s decision to pull out.
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
Maybe we can trade Trump to Iran to as part of the renegotiated nuclear deal.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
LOL
Ruckus
@Baud:
Do you think Iran would be willing to do the necessary, IE trump?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Yeah, but what would you do about Tom Cotton or Ted Cruz?
Betty Cracker
@Baud: OMG, yes! They can have the whole family (except Mary, of course, and any minor children) — pallets of Trumps.
catclub
@raven: The only constant in the Middle East is that the Kurds will get screwed. and they NOT get a homeland.
RaflW
@Matt McIrvin: This has been my worry, certainly. Voters that can re-elect GW Bush after his terrible first term, and then after just eight years of competent (but blackity black) leadership, elect the Orange Idiot Clown Posse, well, that is a country that cannot be trusted for a substantial period of time going forward.
So … congratulations Mike Pompeo, Lindsey Graham, Tom Cotton et al. You’ve well and truly f–ked the US’s foreign policy position for at least a decade.
Bill Arnold
One big problem is ratification, or not. One the Senate approve a resolution of ratification it’s harder to undo.
Cheryl Rofer
@Matt McIrvin: @Chief Oshkosh: @Betty Cracker: Iran and the UK, France, Russia, China, and the EU have been mostly adhering to the JCPOA. Iran’s steps away have been measured and reversible. Overall, the JCPOA and its measure of stability is better for Iran and everyone else than the alternatives. There are some difficulties, but if the US will return, everyone will be relieved.
I agree that trust in the US has been damaged, but much of international relations has little to do with trust, more with benefits and stability. I think that if we can deliver a hard enough blow to the Republican Party, we can come back internationally relatively quickly.
Gravenstone
@Betty Cracker:
/raises hand
I volunteer to do the shrink wrapping. Vacuum shrink wrap should work a treat…
L85NJGT
Iran has interests, the US has interests. ignoring the interaction of those interests is making common cause with Trumpist Neo-isolationsts fantasies and just not practical IRL.
The notion that every actor has to be 99 & 44/100% pure to engage in dialog is just…. please stop.
catclub
wtf? : also, who is Joe Rogan? Does trump see him as even handed straight-shooter – along the lines of Sean hannity?
RaflW
Semi-OT, but I’m watching British punter Ian Dunt live-tweet the UK Parliament as they debate the bill that, if I am understanding their very convoluted politics, will screw up the Ireland/Northern Ireland good Friday agreement.
It sounds to me like they’re unleashing all sorts of shite. So we’re not the only Anglophone country that can shred norms and f*k over partners.
RaflW
@catclub: Trump desperately wants out of the debates. He knows he’ll be spit-roasted.
So this completely laughable request will be the attempted leverage to say that Biden is ‘unreasonable’ and won’t agree to debate because he’d be ‘too tired’ (aka not on rails and rails of stimulant) to go four hours.
Lets see how the press both-sides this craptasm.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: See, now we’re bringing some intelligent, creative thought to the problem!
Captain C
@catclub: I don’t think there’s enough adderall in the world to keep Deadbeat Donnie going for a 4 hour debate.
Chief Oshkosh
@RaflW: I think Joe should call his bluff. In fact, set it open-ended. At some point, Trump’s handlers will miscalculate on titrating him via drinking water “supplements,” and hilarity will ensue.
Kay
@catclub:
The high school boy demo likes Joe Rogan. My son and his friends listen. I’m game so I did- it was good- it was about mushrooms with a mushroom expert. It’s kind of meandering and Rogan himself is a little annoying because he does that fake “interest” thing, where he acts like he’s fascinated.
Anyway. Rogan has endorsed the douchebag so I doubt very much that Joe Biden is going on a Trump fan’s 4 hour debate, nor should he.
J R in WV
@catclub:
I don’t think Trump can even come close to standing at a podium for 4 hours. He would keel over, limp away, not complete his mission… plus the babble would flow after an hour or two.
Another Scott
@Matt McIrvin: “Trust, but verify.”
Yes, a huge amount of damage has been done. But it’s in everyone’s interests to cooperate. There will be friction for a long time, but progress will come pretty quickly, I think.
Cheers,
Scott
Kay
The funniest part about Trumpism is how they constantly have to explain away the lies they tell to their fans.
They told them Joe Biden was addled, it’s not true so like pathetic third graders they have to scramble to explain why the lie they told is plausible. Drugs! That’s it!
I imagine the low quality hires sitting around a table working on this. Grown men and women. Jesus. Just soul destroying. No wonder they’re all so nasty.
Kay
@catclub:
I think Joe Rogan is a standard Republican but that’s not cool enough, so he had to pretend to be backing Sanders and then end up at Trump. It grosses me out because it’s all so mannered and strategic and self conscious. Like anyone gives a shit who he votes for. Why bother will all that? I don’t care if he’s a Republican.
Kay
I think this part of BLM, where the general public starts to find out that police lie a lot, is so very valuable. If they just did this the movement would be a success.
Everyone in the court and justice system knows this. Everyone. The public were the last to find out but they are now finding out and it’s essential information for them. The lying changes everything. It’s devastating to police and if they had any sense they would address it themselves, because the liars discredit ALL of them. They have to start telling the truth.
Amir Khalid
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Go for the trifecta: send Tom Cotton, Ted Cruz, and Tom Cruise to Iran.
Cameron
@catclub: Four hours? Christ, that sounds like Lincoln-Douglas or something. I thought that type of marathon died out over 100 years ago.
MisterForkbeard
@Kay:
This is really important. I have a lot of relatives who just flat don’t believe that Police DO lie – you take their side until proven otherwise, and if they’re wrong it’s a misunderstanding.
No! Police are people, and they’re in a position of power over a lot of people. When they get backed into a corner over it (or even get called on their behavior) many of them will lie. It’s the entire reason we have things like body cameras, because you cannot rely on the word of interested parties. And even with body cameras, police will often go out of their way to turn them off or hide the footage.
Which I get, because accountability sucks for the person in power. But it’s necessary for literally everyone else.
StringOnAStick
@MisterForkbeard: I read a story at Oregon Public Broadcasting this morning that there’s video of a Sheriff telling the person making the video that antifa has been setting fires and pre-placing explosives. He’s now been suspended, but there you have it: a cop parroting the “fires are being caused by Antifa” RW lie, while in uniform and acting in an official capacity.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: I keep thinking that we can pass a law that says a fucking madman president cannot unilaterally take us out of a treaty, agreement, etc without the agreement of both houses of congress.
The “fucking madman president” part does not need to be stated explicitly; it should apply to any president.
Ben Cisco
@StringOnAStick: The guy that got suspended wasn’t the one caught on camera, it was ANOTHER jackass that got caught.
Chief Oshkosh
@Ben Cisco: So, there’s at least two. That makes for a probable conspiracy. The anti-anti-fascists. AKA, Nazis.
Robert Sneddon
@catclub: Question — whose existing homeland gets taken away from them to give the Kurds their own “heimat”? The last time the Western powers drew lines in the sand and gave land in the Middle East to outsiders was the creation of the nation of Israel from the Palestinian Mandate territories and that has been a source of strife and dissent ever since.