Roseanne Barr is a racist crackpot, but she hasn’t disgraced the Barr name like this guy:
Attorney General William Barr argued yesterday that coronavirus-related lockdown orders were surpassed only by slavery as the “greatest intrusion on civil liberties” in the nation’s history https://t.co/oFyWpMnINl pic.twitter.com/kBOF9diNoZ
— POLITICO (@politico) September 17, 2020
The “lockdowns are the worst thing since slavery” statement is stunningly stupid and offensive, so it’s getting media play. But Barr’s other comments were equally alarming, IMO. He’s rightly accused of having a monarchical view of executive power, but it’s more expansive than I realized. He sees Donald Trump as a king, but he also views himself as the Hand of the King (Joffrey — it checks out). Via CNN:
In the speech, Barr questioned any criticism he’s received for “interfering” in cases. The attorney general has ultimate authority, he said.
“These people are agents of the attorney general. As I say, FBI agents, whose agent do you think you are?” Barr asked on Tuesday, adding that career lawyers, too, might be influenced by politics.
“And I say, ‘What exactly am I interfering with?’ When you boil it right down, it’s the will of the most junior member of the organization who has some idea he wants to do something. What makes that sacrosanct?”
Okay, I’m not a lawyer, but I think the sacrosanct thing in this scenario is supposed to be the law? I miss the old days, when political operative John Roberts felt compelled to claim he’d be a mere umpire calling balls and strikes. I mean, it was all bullshit to a certain extent and always has been. But it’s preferable to have public officials who are at least constrained by the need to maintain a pretense of impartiality.
“They do not have the political legitimacy to be the public face for tough decisions and they lack the political buy-in necessary to publicly defend those decisions,” Barr also said.
The speech comes after Barr has been escalating alarmist and politicized rhetoric in a series of interviews, and advocating against Democrats in the election.
“In short, the attorney general, senior DOJ officials, and US attorneys are indeed political. But they are political in a good and necessary sense,” he said.
Ironically, Barr made these remarks at a Constitution Day event.
So quaint, the notion that the Attorney General of the United States represents the United States in legal matters. Remember when DC insiders vouched for Barr as a institutionalist with a fancy pedigree who wouldn’t go wilding on Trump’s behalf? They owe us an apology. We’d have been better off keeping the sweaty, bullet-headed hot tub salesman.
Ballot Initiative Questions (and Hopefully Answers)
cope
This is tough for me because, cursed by FSM, Barr is my doppelganger (really, if I posted a pic of me, you’d see) but this man needs to be removed from the vicinity of any and all levers of power. Gonna be a long 50-some days…
MattF
Barr will now always be the paradigmatic counter-example to any claim that ‘the establishment’ is a friend of democratic government. It is not.
David C
The response is simple – federal agents of all kinds are agents of the American people, sworn to uphold the Constitution.
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
I hate these people so much.
khead
Please do not hold your breath while waiting for it. I like your posts too much.
Baud
I appreciate the Barr giving Biden’s AG carte blanche to go after him next year.
sdhays
Those people who vouched for him owe us more than an apology. They should resign from opining on shit publicly. They should decline to offer opinions in the media. If anyone asks them anything, they should say, “I think I’ve already said enough. Why don’t you talk to <this person who was right all along while I boosted a fucking fascist>?”
But being a pundit means nothing you say has consequences – FOR YOU!
Betty Cracker
@David C: Right? I’m sure it’s right there in every job description, from Barr’s on down to the lowliest agent.
PenAndKey
You know, it’s a stretch, but Barr is by far the single most loathsome person in this entire administration. He is actively and maliciously subverting the rule of law to prop up his apparent belief that he works for a monarchy.
Trump is dumb as a post, a liar, and overall evil. But most of all? He’s incompetent. Barr isn’t, and if we have to gauge threat levels here I’ve got to point to the guy who seems to think he’s Tywin Lannister incarnate. If Biden doesn’t win in November, if Barr is still in position after January and not facing serious prison time after a thorough investigation and trial, I have no doubt at all that all the trial balloons he’s been fielding lately are going to come to fruition and our country is done. It really is as simple as that.
MisterForkbeard
As everyone else has noted, the Right flipped the fuck out when the AG met with Bill Clinton for 10 minutes on a tarmac because there might be influence, despite the fact that Loretta Lynch wasn’t interfering the investigation and the whole investigation was farcical on its face.
Bill Barr is openly talking about how he’s protecting the President’s friends and prosecuting his enemies. He’s openly interfered in investigations against his boss and sabotaged them to Congress. I really, REALLY hope there’s some kind of recourse to nail his ass to the wall after all this.
If they keep this up, eventually someone is just going to shoot them. Because they’ve removing all other forms of accountability. And that would be awful.
SiubhanDuinne
They owe us a fuck of a lot more than that.
rp
@PenAndKey: As a lawyer, I’m not sure I agree. I used to think Barr was brilliant and evil, but lately he’s coming across as a complete buffoon. Yes, these comments are loathsome and anti-American, but why is he saying them publicly in such a ham-fisted way? Why was his interference in the SDNY so incompetent?
ETA: I should clarify that I definitely agree that he’s the most loathsome person in the admin. Although if you ask me tomorrow I might say Miller.
Betty Cracker
@PenAndKey: I agree. And if Biden does win (and avoids the unforgivable error of letting the Trump people off the hook in the name of uniting the country), it’s probably more important to bring Barr to justice than Trump. It might be less satisfying, but Barr is the one who needs to be made an example of the most.
PenAndKey
@MisterForkbeard: Malcolm X has a few quotes that apply to this scenario. I’m not exactly sure what Barr and his buddy’s think they’re going to get away with, but rampant lawlessness on the part of the government doesn’t mean nobody can fight back. They should consider themselves lucky that we have a peaceful electoral way to do so. The alternative, the one that will apply if they systematically strip our ability to vote them out? It’s a route that no sane person should ever want to consider a possibility.
MattF
@rp: I think, in particular, that the SDNY fiasco showed that Barr can be out-thought and out-maneuvered. Barr probably underestimates his opposition and over-estimates his own brilliance.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
That Barr rant sounds a lot like Caputo’s last week. Me thinks Barr has out lived his usefulness to Trump and on The Death Watch.
la caterina
@cope: 46 days, 12 hours.
PenAndKey
@rp: My theory is that he doesn’t think anyone can fight back. He’s being an absolute moron by “saying the quite parts out loud”, but if he legitimately doesn’t think anyone can stop him he likely doesn’t feel he needs to hide his intentions. It’s my hope that someone is taking all of these statements of his and building a few entries in a large case file, because that’s what it’s going to take. If for no better reason than to at least start to salvage our global reputation within the next 100 years.
rikyrah
Woke up this early AM to catch the replay of the Maddow show, and her explaining how DOLT45 has gone – in practice – TO HERD IMMUNITY. So, which one of these so-called journalists is going to call him out on it.
MattF
@Betty Cracker: It’s likely that some political types on the RW margin will realize they are in a critical position and try to get points from the Trumpites by saving a few scalps. But we shall see.
WaterGirl
Alexander Haig: “I am in charge here.”
Move over, Alexander Haig.
I want Preet and Benjamin Wittes to write up a public apology and post it on their websites and twitter feeds.
They both fucked up on the rapist Supreme Court Justice also, as I recall.
SiubhanDuinne
I do love it when Betty Cracker, Evan Hurst, and Charlie Pierce are all on the same story at the same time
ETA: Digby, too.
germy
Washington Post
germy
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I wonder if Barr thinks of Trump as his employee.
Roger Moore
Roseanne is a racist crackpot who used to have a TV show. William is a racist crackpot with the power of the USDOJ behind him. The power difference is the main distinction.
MisterForkbeard
@germy:
Our awful fucking media. Trump is not “facing criticism for the swift pace of development of vaccines”. He’s facing criticism because he’s openly contradicting health experts and pushing unsafe practices to openly support his re-election at the expense of Americans and ability to trust the government.
This is like saying Hitler faced criticism for defending the fatherland. Or saying that Putin faces criticism for maintaining order. What putzes.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Chuck Rosenberg has apologized, and I wanna say Neal Katyal.
@PenAndKey: not a stretch at all. Barr is IMHO by far the most dangerous member of this administration because he’s smart and focused. Mnuchin– probably his only challenger for smartest scumbag– only cares about taxes and money. Barr is a frightening authoritarian and theocrat who wants to remake the country in his own image. And he gets that $30K spent on a holiday party at one of trump’s tacky hotels will give him an enormous return in shaping policy, including the judiciary
feebog
@rp:
There are still some checks in place that Barr has yet to overcome. I would point out the Andrew McCabe investigation as a good example. Apparently the effort to indict him went south when they put it before a grand jury. Judge Sullivan pulling back on the reins in the Stone case is another example.
Hoodie
@PenAndKey: Barr is analogous to Newt Gingrich, who was referred to as a stupid person’s idea of a smart person. Barr is a stupid person’s idea of a good lawyer. He has the voice and the arrogant demeanor, but his legal theories are garbage. He’s really just another low-quality Trump hire.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy:
the number of people who correctly view trump as a useful idiot is long, and if it starts with Putin, Big Willie is a good candidate for number two. I often think nobody would be happier than McConnell if trump went full Elvis on the crapper one day (maybe Melania), he could get all the judges with little of the drama and noise. I think Barr needs trump.
Hoodie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: My impression is that Barr thinks he’s Cardinal Wolsey and Trump is Henry VIII. That didn’t end well for Wolsey.
JPL
@Baud: Maybe they can demonstrate how a heat ray really works.
Frankensteinbeck
@PenAndKey:
Thank the sun pony, Barr ain’t no genius, either. He looks like Brainiac compared to his boss and most of the low quality hires, but he his attempts to smear Biden have delivered a set of flops so pathetic that they’re not even remembered. Unmasking, and that one where they ‘proved’ Flynn (I think Flynn?) was innocent and set up by the FBI because Obama, Hillary, and Biden were illegally conspiring against Trump, those are the ones I remember. And a FISA thing? And as pointed out earlier in the thread, he’s done a shit job of sabotaging the state prosecutor offices, which should have been trivial. Barr does a damn fine job of going “Nope, not going to cooperate”, but he’s only semi-competent.
That’s probably why he got so many glowing recommendations. DC insiders knew him as a friendly dumbass like themselves.
Hoodie
@Frankensteinbeck: Exactly, Barr isn’t a lawyer, but he plays one on TV.
Betty Cracker
@Roger Moore: Trump is also a racist crackpot who used to have a TV show. Hmmm….
Enhanced Voting Techniques
The guy is such a monarchy fan boi, Barr sees himself as Richelieu to Trump’s Henry V of France?
germy
I always thought Roseanne Barr stole her whole schtick from Judy Tenuta.
MP
You don’t make comments like these if you’re in a position of strength. Barr at this point sort of reminds me of Robert Duvall’s character in Apocalypse Now and his soliloquy on the smell of napalm. Doesn’t mean he’s not dangerous, but I think he’s teetering.
Omnes Omnibus
@rp: Sounds like a case for Thunderdome.
Hungry Joe
People who went to school with Barr describe him and his brother as being particularly vicious bullies. The thing about bullies is that they’re physically bigger than other kids, generallyget away with it, and really do beat the crap out of any (smaller) kid who stands up to them. So this is who Barr was, and is, and will always be.
Most loathesome? Kind of like the GOAT (Greatest Of All Time) argument in men’s tennis: Federer, Nadal, or Djokovic? Here it’s clearly — to me, anyway — Barr, McConnell, Miller. Barr is subverting the Constitution, McConnell poisoned the judiciary and blew up the Senate, and Miller, though short (relatively) on power, makes the Final Three on sheer evil. Trump is second tier.
prostratedragon
@Frankensteinbeck:
Like Rover in The Prisoner. Good at smothering folks (who lack sharp tools) by laying all over them, and not at much else. When I hear Barr’s name that’s what I picture.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Hoodie: I’ll admit my understanding of the Cardinal comes mostly from Hillary Mantel, so I’m favorably disposed, for the moment.
I’m sure Barr thinks that, like Joe McCarthy, Torquemada was misunderstood, and that somebody in Rome ought to shove that Argentine pretender down a flight of steep stone steps and bring back Benedict, who knew how to do some proper poping, hateful and judgmental, like Jesus intended.
After seeing that wheezy speech he gave at Notre Dame about secularism and permissiveness, I’d be willing to bet that sexuality is at the root of Barr’s worldview, that somebody close to him is doing something with their naughty bits that makes him uncomfortable.
PenandKey
And thank small mercies for that. Still, he has largely unchecked power right now, and in spite of his incompetence he can still ruin a lot of lives for precisely as long as Congress abdicates their duty to keep him in check. McConnell has a lot to answer for, but foisting Barr on this nation, and then refusing to hold him accountable, has got to be at the top of the list
So he’s basically what would happen if Dudley Dursley from Harry Potter grew up to be an American lawyer. Makes sense.
rp
@Omnes Omnibus: For Barr and Miller? I’m ok with that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy:
So did Judy Tentua
MomSense
Fuck Bill Barr.
germy
https://www.thedailybeast.com/bill-barr-bullied-me-because-i-backed-civil-rights
germy
Omnes Omnibus
@rp: Pay Per View?
JPL
@germy: It’s behind the pay wall. Who’s the author?
germy
link to the 1991 article about Barr the student.
JPL
@JPL: Never mind.. It’s Jimmy Lohman and Thom Hartman uploaded a video about him. I’m going to watch it now. link
PST
It is fun to point out from time to time that Barr’s father, while headmaster of the Dalton School, gave a young Jeffrey Epstein his first teaching opportunity despite lack of even a college degree. The elder Barr also wrote a science-fiction novel, Space Relations, about a planet ruled by oligarchs who hold minors in sexual slavery. Very odd. (I am relying on Wikipedia here.)
hitchhiker
I think Ben Wittes got off the train quite publicly in May 2019.
I mean, it’s cold comfort and all that, but he did admit that he’d been catastrophically wrong with that benefit of the doubt shit.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/bill-barrs-performance-was-catastrophic/588574/
Hoodie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The nexus of that and Epstein at Dalton would be interesting . . . Maybe some schoolboy experimentation that led to overcompensation?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker:
I’d argue it depends on what you mean by bringing him to justice (mounts hobby-horse number 3 for the nth time). To me, the lesson of the Mueller investigation, and the Fitzgerald investigation before it, is the wrong way to go, or at the very least the wrong way to start. I’ll yield to the lawyers here who say I’m overestimating Barr’s brains and skill as a lawyer, but he’s certainly a very rich and well-connected lawyer who can find and pay very smart lawyers. I think the odds of criminal prosecution are pretty small.
I think the path forward has to be a Congressional investigation– joint committee, special select committee, something– to investigate the Justice Department under trump, even before, if we consider the FBI as part of the DoJ. From Rudy Giuliani’s boasts about the FBI being trump country in the summer of 2016 to Rosenstein blocking Mueller to Barr and Durham, they all needs to be questioned, in public and under oath.
Any criminal activity uncovered can then be referred to Biden’s DoJ.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@PST: Assuming this right, my gawd, are there really this many brain damaged people in the world?
japa21
Sick and tired of people talking about the measures some states took as a lockdown and that there were stay at home orders. Even the most stringent rules were not even close to a lockdown and no state had stay at home orders.
narya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: His father, I’m gonna say. That whole connection with Epstein just creeps me right out.
rikyrah
EEEERRRRRRRRBOODY
Who came to Barr’s defense needs to apologize.
Gin & Tonic
Funny. OANN has scrubbed their site of all stories re Andriy Derkach. They were big fans.
Brachiator
Some mornings I would wake up and think, “I can’t believe that Trump is actually president.”
Then I would wake up in the morning and think “I can’t believe that Trump is actually president, and we are living through a goddam global pandemic.”
Now, I wake up and think “I can’t believe that Trump is president, we are living through a global pandemic, and I am watching a slow march to the destruction of democracy by a populist autocracy.”
Aleta
So how come Barr’s JD and organizations like the Federalist have spent months challenging the lockdown decisions of elected governors in blue states, and influencing their decisions in red states? Moreover we (the “free people” acc to Barr, unless perchance he’s a lying hypocrite) have not given our elected reps the authority to force gag orders on doctors and researchers in medicine and science. (Though GA sure is trying to claim it. )
danielx
Oh, they’re related! Explains a lot, actually.
Jinchi
But these powers only extend to the rightful king, which is why it won’t be hypocritical of Barr when he is outraged at the excesses of the Biden administration or the Obama one before him.
This is why he has no problem with Donald Trump extorting a foreign president to fabricate evidence that the previous president extorted a foreign official (for which Barr would try Biden and Obama for treason).
Hoodie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I tend to agree that pursuing Barr would likely be fruitless. Getting rid of Trump will do a lot of the heavy lifting. Guys like Barr tend to be powerless without guys like Trump (or Reagan, etc.) because he has the charisma of a sack of rancid suet and his schtick is only really only effective in insular communities of moral defectives like the Federalist Society or as a toady in service to a sociopathic monarch. Investigating and shoring up internal checks and balances in the DOJ is more important that going after Barr because you want to make sure the next Barr can’t do what he’s doing.
Mike in NC
Cannot wait to be rid of both Fat Bastard and his chief enabler come November.
john b
and weirdly AG Barr kinda looks like John Goodman
Kay
Someone really needs to explore why so many fancy, coddled Right wing men need to see themselves as tough street fighters. There are a LOT of them.
Why can’t they just accept what they are? They’re privileged people that were born into good fortune and never had to fight for anything. There’s nothing wrong with that. Why do we all have to play along with their tough guy fantasies? This is now like an entire genre of Right wing men- belligerent fancy people. It’s bizarre.
germy
‘We Are Upholding The Rule Of Law,’ Bill Barr Tells Congress While Federal Agents Drag Jerry Nadler Into Unmarked Van
Tony Jay
@PenandKey:
Kind of, except by the end of the series Dudley had sort of wised up to the fact that his despised weed of a cousin was actually a selfless hero and there was a lot he could learn from him.
Barr, not so much.
Ksmiami
@germy: Barr is one hamberder away from cardiac arrest. Why are so many GOPers incels? Because they are ugly As fuck and no normal woman would fuck them
Formica
I’ve been criticized here for looking too for ahead, hoping that Biden will be elected, pondering cabinet positions, etc. So I will add the appropriate “hoping that Biden wins” disclaimer…
I worry, intensely, about the typical “let us look forward”, “our long national nightmare is over”, media village bullshit that will be heaped upon an incoming Biden administration. These fuckers must, to a person, rot in jail before they rot in Hell. Barr, at the moment, being an example of just how far beyond any norms or boundaries these assholes have blown.
There must be no healing, no forgiveness, no time for reconciliation.
There must be justice. Swift, unyielding, unending, overwhelming justice. Every last one of these motherfuckers must be tried, convicted, and punished for all the world to see. It is the only way we, as a nation, can salvage the American experiment, as well as our reputation around the world. Otherwise, we”re just another nuclear armed kleptocracy, jockeying for dwindling resources in a world on fire.
I’ll settle for trying them in absentia when they flee to Moscow, but I crave the live 24/7 feed from each individual cell at ADX Florence.
Kay
I think Barr has been traveling the country promoting himself because the criticism from other fancy lawyers DOES bother him. I think he’s hugely aware of status and is angry he’s being criticized for being such a corrupt hack because he thinks he belongs in elite circles and that means a lot to him.
None of the low quality Trump hires are actually anti-elitist. They worship celebrity and money and elite credentials and want approval from people they consider their peers. Remember- Trump thought Jeff Sessions was inferior because he went to a state school.
Kay
@Ksmiami:
I think those two things are connected. I think the posh Right wing men fancy themselves tough street brawlers BECAUSE they’ve never had to actually do that. They’re soft and coddled people who use the language of battles and wars because they’ve never actually been in one.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m not qualified to render an opinion on whether Barr broke the law, and I don’t know what mechanism should be used to hold him accountable for misconduct. But even if he’s never charged with anything, I hope he’s compelled to answer for subverting the DoJ and lying to the American people about serious national security matters.
Jeffro
@David C: I do wish the Dems – not just the Biden campaign, ALL the Dems – would get proactive about this, grab the mic, and loudly say
Kay
The truth is you can’t be a decision maker in an organization where the leadership is corrupt without participating in corruption yourself. You’re either directly participating in it or not reporting knowlege of it, and both if those are unethical. There was never really a choice for DOJ lawyers. They had to quit.
It’s not their fault Bill Barr is corrupt but it is their problem, and continuing to work for him with this level of corruption is incompatible with remaining ethical.
They’re simply not in the position of office staff or support people. They sign pleadings and create work – it’s THEIR work, not Bill Barr’s. They’re responsible for it. If it’s corrupted, they’re corrupted.
Kent
@Formica: Wishful thinking.
Barr and others of his ilk will immediately ensconce themselves into conservative think tank organizations like the Hoover Institute, or in conservative law firms with 7 figure salaries. And, within a nanosecond of Biden getting sworn in, they will start showing up on OpEd pages and Fox News telling us how the Biden Administration is “over-reaching” and other ridiculous bullshit.
Jeffro
@germy: per someone’s comment in an earlier thread…if a vaccine is “right around the corner”, then why aren’t we locking down/masking up hard for a short period of time, to prevent all those unnecessary deaths between now and the arrival of the vaccine?
He’s such a fucking liar.
Fair Economist
Barr is:
Aggressively supporting Trump, a known sex offender.
Attempting to interfere with the Epstein investigation.
The son of a known pedophile.
Ostentatiously religious.
He’s a sex offender. No direct evidence, but the pattern is clear. Roll up Epstein and Trump’s trafficking rings and you’ll get him too.
Kay
The Barr justice department has twice submitted pleadings in federal courts that were lies. Whoever signed those is responsible for them. This idea that one can somehow separate lawyers from what lawyers do and make a distinction is just wrong. That’s not how it works. If their name is on it’s theirs. If they’re doing a corrupt person’s bidding they are corrupt. There’s no daylight there, no separation. They simply aren’t permitted that as an excuse.
JPL
@Betty Cracker: Can the heat ray gun be a mechanism for holding him accountable? I’d be okay with that.
Jeffro
@Aleta: he means “elected Republican representatives”, Aleta
Kay
Barr’s a bully too. He gave that speech where he demeaned the line lawyers because he wanted to intimidate them. They either push back against the bully or wave a white flag and surrender to him. They don’t have any good choices. Not their fault, but definitely their problem. Not addressing it isn’t a solution.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Espstien worked at the school Barr’s dad was Head Master for, just saying.
Hoodie
@Jeffro: Of course. There is no fucking way they are going to be able to gauge the long term effectiveness of any actually delivered vaccine developed on such an accelerated timeline. Influenza vaccines often are not all that effective (between 40 and 60% is normal), and we have years of experience making those. Here, we’re talking about new technologies, stringent cold-chain requirements, etc. That’s the cat that Redfield let out of the bag in yesterday’s Senate hearing when he said that masks can be more effective than vaccines, which is why Trump scrambled to “correct” him. Trump is putting all his eggs into being able to say “we have a vaccine!” in October, he doesn’t give a shit whether it works or not and he’s counting on quarterly stock-price driven greedheads in the pharma industry to aid him in that charade. People are infantilized by watching too many stupid movies where they miraculously develop a vaccine to stop some world-ending plague.
WaterGirl
@hitchhiker: I think Wittes and Preet and Chuck Rosenburg should repost/reprint their apologies every single day that Barr does something out of bounds.
Which would be most every day, but it would surely make a point.
Kay
This is exactly how organizations and entities become low quality too. The better people cannot stay, so they leave and the quality goes down.
We’ve seen it just over the 3 years of the Trump Administration. It’s been a straight line down. Every replacement is worse than the one who went before. It’s just how it works. When you fill a pitcher that’s labeled “lemonaide” with motor oil, it may still say lemonaide, but it’s motor oil. I can point to the label in the pitcher and say “look! the institution survived!” but it’s still full of motor oil.
WaterGirl
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: It’s all one big privileged (white) boys club.
Which needs to be blown up.
kjsd
Hi–I was researching some things in order to write a letter to the editor of my local paper about what a moron Kristi Noem is for, among other things, calling educated health professionals “an elite class of so-called experts,” and my googly search “kristi noem dumbest person on earth” led me here, where I had the great pleasure of hearing Her Moronic-ousnous referred to as a “dime store Sarah Palin.” Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Back to topic, Barr is a much bigger danger to this country than even the Orange Wonder. His g*******d smugness makes me think bad thoughts, which I will edit down to: I wish someone’s sweet old grandma would grab Bill Jowly Barr by the ear and drag him out of his office and tell him to apologize to America for being such a corrupt POS.
(Oh, and I know Trump is even dumber than Noem–or is he?)
cain
@cope:
Sir, how would you like to be AG of the United States? Perhaps a switcheroo can take place. You take over, and Barr finds himself somewhere in the arctic circle, homeless, begging for food from seals. (don’t worry, he’ll be ok, global warming will make it livable)
trollhattan
Lemme see if I have this right.
“Sure, Japanese internment was bad and all, but pales in comparison to being coerced to wear masks and not getting seated at Joe’s Crab Shack.”
Can I be AG now?
Heywood J.
Sure hope the Democrats take back the House so they can investigate Barr’s shenanigans.
Ksmiami
@Kay: they are weak and whiny and fundamentally unmanly.. that’s why they punch down and hide behind either coseted halls of power or behind a stockpile of weapons
Miss Bianca
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Barr, Caputo…Trump (always)…I mean, I know they always sound like they’ve just taken crazy pills, but the last couple weeks/days/centuries it’s like someone’s amped their doses up to 11.
Mallard Filmore
@Formica: I’m with you here, except there are a few that need to go to the Hague for trial.
Also the Supreme Court MUST smack down any blanket pardon for Any And All Crimes Committed On My Behalf that Trump signs on his way out the door. Political parties will devolve into one criminal gang fighting another (don’t tell me the Democratic Party wont rot really fast). Any party in power can go wild with kidnapping, torture, murder, turn this country into West Russia. Then if they really screw up and lose power, pardon themselves.
Our Constitution will not stand up to that.
bemused
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)Mingobat, et al.):
So do I but now I am even more enraged at the freaks that will still vote for trump and any republican running for office.
Baud
@Heywood J.:
It’s cool to be cynical, but the Dems have no power right now since DOJ won’t comply with any subpoena, and courts aren’t enforcing them. A Biden DOJ will be more cooperative with the House, so let’s focus on making that a reality.
Heywood J.
@Miss Bianca: They know they’d lose a fair election by a landslide, so they have to spend the homestretch delegitimizing it as much as possible.
And it stands a decent chance of working.
FelonyGovt
I’m just happy because I finished a great text banking session and had lots of enthusiastic Dem supporters m- many of whom have already volunteered! – in Pennsylvania.
Miss Bianca
@Frankensteinbeck: I love how all of the jackaltariat, petite moi included, have just copped Kay’s now-immortal phrase “low-quality hires”. I routinely pepper my conversation with it these days when I have to discuss the Trump “Administration” with the nonpolitical. It just gets the point across so quickly and neatly.
Heywood J.
@Baud: I’m not trying to be cool with my cynicism. They need to use every power at their disposal, regardless of what they assume the outcome will be.
Impeach and investigate Barr, and make it clear to him that every single crime unearthed in the investigation will be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Since he’s already perjured himself to Congress multiple times, it’s already a problem for it.
Do they or do they not have the power to jail people who ignore subpoenas, under the charge of inherent contempt? If they have that power, they need to use it. They just got shown up again today, by a guy who has been found to be illegally heading the Department of Homeland Security.
The problem is not that “there’s simply nothing anybody can do,” the problem is that Nancy Smash has decreed that Barr is “not worth it.” Well, I guess we’ll see if he would have been “worth it” come Nov. 4, when he autocratically decides the results are illegitimate unless they fall in Dear Leader’s favor.
They really do need to exhaust every possible avenue now, while they still have even those weak options. They won’t like whatever options remain afterward.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud:
thanks in no small part because of people who insisted there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between the two parties. NPR did a show yesterday on non-voters, and the overwhelming majority of listeners calling/texting/emailing in were from that camp. After all this time, they have no idea what a confession of privilege and (privileged) insularity that is
narya
@Hoodie: The other thing about this supposed vaccine: the crazybase won’t take it, because they think the virus is a hoax, and/or mistrust science, and/or are antivaxxers, and the rest of us will have an eyebrow raised unless there is serious scientific support for it. So it’s not clear to me whom he thinks is going to be won over by this.
VeniceRiley
Have a thread for you. Qatar to Trump scam.
https://twitter.com/DanAlexander21/status/1306655858437353473?s=20
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’ve long since lost my scorecard, but I believe this one is from the “anti-choice libertarian” aisle?
That’s it. That’s the tweet, and the broken, blinking clock is right!
Aleta
A question about the complaints against Barr submitted by influential lawyers (not to mention the resolution submitted in the House this summer to hold an impeachment inquiry). Is there any chance that once the election is over, the DC Bar might act before January on the request to discipline him for violations? Yes I know it’s nowhere near what he deserves. Still, the thought of him escaping even any sanction while in office for so many blatant ethical breaches is dismal.
Heywood J.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That, and people being too lazy to show up for the midterms. It’s unfortunate that those folks don’t get punished in proportion to their complicity in keeping these bastards afloat.
Chyron HR
@Heywood J.:
“Waaaah the Nazis aren’t the problem, the DIMBYCRAPS are the problem!!!”
Let me guess, you’re a “Democrat voter for Trump”?
bemused
@hitchhiker:
I remember a few other lawyerly folks on msnbc who thought Barr wouldn’t be a bad attorney general pick and then were shocked and dismayed at Barr’s behavior. I guess they didn’t know Barr as well as they thought they did but they could have delved more carefully into his history.
WaterGirl
@Aleta: If Barr was disbarred right now, could he remain as AG? Do you have to be an attorney in order to be Attorney General? Could the bar take him down?
janesays
I hate to say it, but we probably would have been better off with the elfish racist asshat from Alabama as well. Sessions was awful, but he’s been redeemed as only the second worst AG we’ve had in the past 4 years.
Heywood J.
@Chyron HR:
Guess again, Fucko. I’m just a guy who expects the people that I gladly voted for to do everything they can, whether or not it’s difficult.
jc
Yes, Barr’s comments are stupid and offensive … but I think the Trumpies make comments like this on purpose. Barr is always pushing the moral, ethical, legal envelope, but hey, only liberals are offended, and those stupid socialist anarchists don’t count. Barr is extreme in his politicization of a vital government role that’s not supposed to be political. It’s all to push conservative’s advantage and power, while distracting the public with outrageous bullshit. Trump does this a lot too.
CCL
@Kay: Yup… the quality hires leave and the bottom of the barrel stays because they cannot get another job. No one else will hire them. True in bad companies and true in this administration.
VeniceRiley
Here’s another thread for you. Insightful on the subject of “public panic.” (Spoiler- no such thing.)
https://twitter.com/m_older/status/1306493216032796674?s=20
Or go right to the linked article
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/16/trump-woodward-elite-panic-coronavirus-pandemic/
opiejeanne
@Mallard Filmore: I have this nagging idea that Trump won’t pardon those people on his way out the door, because at that point there’s nothing in it for him.
Oklahomo
You know it’s 2020 when you see “Top military police considered using a ‘heat ray‘ that makes the skin feel like it’s burning on D.C. protesters in June, according to a military whistleblower.” in your side-bar on twitter. I bet Barr was drooling over the chance.
japa21
@WaterGirl: Don’t know the answer to that question (my guess is no, just like technically one doesn’t need to be a lawyer to sit on the Supreme Court). I do know that what I want to see is the country deBarred.
Austin Bailey
I wonder if George Takei would take exception to Barr’s opinion regarding face masks. Takei and his family, American citizens, were placed in concentration camps during WW2 for the crime of being of Japanese ancestry. I think that ranks above public health orders regarding masks.
Miss Bianca
@Tony Jay: Yeah, this. Nice to see you again, btw! I was afraid that recent developments on Blighty’s shores had led to you guzzling bleach or something, and that’s why we hadn’t heard from you lately.
James E Powell
@Kay:
I think Barr is also touring the country because he believes he can reach voters who are alienated by Trump’s gross & disgusting manner. Barr reminds me of the right-wing lawyers I encountered in my years of practice. They all probably see themselves in him.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@opiejeanne: The Beast knows who he has to take care of, if you look at the way he lumbered in, and had Barr do the same, for Stone and Flynn. Stone let trump know loud and clear that he was gonna cover his own Nixon-tatooed ass (slight poetic license).
At the risk of sounding tin-foil-hatty, I think the only reason Manafort hasn’t been cleared is there are people Manafort, and trump, are more afraid of than each other. I admit I can’t quite figure out why the Putin gang wants Manafort in jail– as simple as he still owes money and they want him to suffer?–, but I think that’s why he’s still there.
Miss Bianca
@James E Powell:
Like, somehow, his *own* gross and disgusting behavior is just not as gross and disgusting…somehow!
cope
@cain: That’s a better idea than what i was planning. I was going to put on two wetsuits and my Barr tortoise shell glasses and make a video of my Barr-self rolling around a pile of blow with a couple of hookers in nun’s habits. Your idea sounds easier to pull off and much less likely to incense my wife.
Villago Delenda Est
It’s official: Barr has risen to Nazi leadership levels of evil.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Miss Bianca: Those two rants remind a lot of the kind of stuff Communist in the ’30s would do when they realized they were on one of Stalin’s purge lists.
Betty Cracker
@Miss Bianca: Haha, true! I’ve definitely used the phrase in offline conversations. Trump admin employees possess so many bad qualities, and it’s tempting to use series of adjectives. But “low-quality hires” captures their worthlessness while also invoking the origin of the problem — the person who hired them.
kindness
It is my humble opinion that Barr (& Republicans in general) have an expansive view of Executive Authority (the whole Unitary Executive, almost king type thing) when a Republican is in power. When a Democratic member is in power, that whole thing goes out the window.
Really it only confirms my belief that Republicans are hypocritical pieces of shit.
Villago Delenda Est
@Austin Bailey: Someone over at Wonkette said that once George unsticks himself from the ceiling, he might have some comments.
My reply was that first they have to get those glitchy inertial dampeners fixed on the bridge. Scotty, get to work, slacker!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@kjsd: Noem vs. Trump would be quite the competition for most stupid. How do such stupid people get power?
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
Apologies if someone has already made this joke, but:
The current Attorney General has so sullied the term by association that the American Bar Association is considering a name change.
Villago Delenda Est
@Heywood J.: Ralph Nader, Susan Sarandon, and FSB stooge Jill Stein have a lot to answer for. Nader has the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis on his hands, for example.
japa21
@Dorothy A. Winsor: A lot of even stupider people voted for them.
Mallard Filmore
@opiejeanne: I have a vision of Barr writing the Pardon up, going to Trump with a few BIG bodyguards (all security cleared) and asking Trump to sign.
Then telling Trump to sign.
Baud
@Heywood J.:
I have no idea why you think that would be a productive course of action at this point, no matter how morally righteous it would be to do. Did impeachment change Trump’s behavior? It won’t change Barr’s either.
Heywood J.
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
It sucks to think that every politician is basically an accurate reflection of the people they represent.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Heywood J.:
They impeached trump. They convinced IIRC a slight majority of the country that he was guilty. They even got a Republican Senator to vote to convict and remove him. Do you think it damaged trump? Do you know any people in meatspace whose opinion was changed by impeachment?
The problem isn’t what the Dems in Congress haven’t done. It’s that there’s a large chunk of the country, in between the thirty percent who’d light themselves on fire for him and the thirty percent who’d light themselves on fire to get rid of him, who even if they don’t like him, and they’d be fine if he went away, don’t really care enough to do anything about it. Nancy Pelosi can’t make them care. Neither can Bernie Sanders. Not even AOC(!) and her owning slaying awesome twitter game.
I’m all for Constitutional hygiene and laying out a case for history, but if you think investigating, or even impeaching Barr (assuming Nancy Pelosi exercises the kind of iron hand on her caucus that McConnell does on his, which I don’t think she does) would change a significant number of votes… I believe you’re mistaken.
James E Powell
@Miss Bianca:
Not to that class of person. They believe they have an absolute right to abuse others.
Chris Johnson
@Kay: Judging from upthread, with Barr we got
-psycho racist authoritarian
-who was beating up littler kids at school if they supported black causes or even wore buttons to that effect
-whose brother was also a racist bully and as vicious as he was
-whose father set up Jeffrey Epstein with an early position as a teacher
So basically: privileged my ass. His angst is understandable in a certain light, what he’s done with it, definitely not.
If this pattern means that Barr was a molested child forever unable to expunge what was done to him and presumably his brother as well, it explains some of his motivations as far as needing to set up a Higher Authority, an ultimate king-strongman who could destroy the tainted father who hurt him (or whoever else it was: wouldn’t it be mind-blowing if it was actually Epstein all those years ago? But I’m guessing it’d be a legitimate authority figure abusing that authority)
Sometimes it’s that simple. And then you spend years cleaning up the mess.
Heywood J.
@Villago Delenda Est: Sure, but in Florida in 2000, twelve times as many registered Democratic voters jumped to Bush, than to Nader. They seem to sleep just fine at night, since no one ever holds them accountable for their perfidy.
That’s not to excuse Nader or Stein or whoever else, but I prefer to focus on the devils across the aisle, and which people in the opposition party still like to pretend they can “work with” such people.
Institutionalized fuckery is much more of a problem than stochastic fuckery.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think Manafort was granted “home confinement” some months ago due to the pandemic?
Heywood J.
@Baud: Doing something is generally better than doing nothing. I get what you’re saying, but do you apply that same principle to, say, the House passing four hundred bills that they know aren’t ever going to make it to the Senate floor for a vote? Why isn’t that a monumental waste of time?
zzyzx
@Heywood J.: because there’s a group of people who tunes out political fights but still wants bills to be passed.
Baud
@Heywood J.:
(1) Many of those bills will be ready to go once we retake the Senate since the work has been put in.
(2) You can campaign on those issues. You can’t campaign on impeaching people who won’t be in office after the next election.
ETA: Is any House or incumbent Senate candidate running on having voted to impeach Trump? Is there any group of voters that cares that they did that?
Villago Delenda Est
@Baud: You can campaign on putting the motherfuckers in prison until they die.
Baud
@Villago Delenda Est:
Congress can’t. They don’t prosecute people. And Biden’s pitch is that his AG should make those decisions without his political interference, which is consistent with his view that what Trump is doing is wrong.
Villago Delenda Est
@Baud: Then hire an AG who will pursue these assholes all the way. Schiff might be good at that.
Frankensteinbeck
@Baud:
Like I predicted before the impeachment, Democrats got jack shit credit for it. The same people are still calling them weak. To be fair, that isn’t as much of an issue as I expected. Trump’s new daily scandal drives everything else off the political discussion.
Heywood J.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that. Here’s Pelosi in June of this year:
To me this is circular logic on at least two levels. For one — and maybe I’m wrong about this — the vaunted Blue Wave was interpreted as a clear signal from Democratic voters that Something Should Be Done, that this human centipede of an administration should be fought tooth and nail, and its criminality pursued and prosecuted vigorously.
In other words, there was an election, and its message was clear. It may not have been easy, nor palatable to the Trump cultists or the lazy corporate media, but it was clear all the same.
Secondly, if we agree that there is a significant non-zero chance of Barr and or Trump playing an active role in delegitimizing the upcoming election — and I assume that you and I can agree on that premise, if we might differ on the odds — then it’s a reasonable question to ask the Democratic leadership what measures will be taken to ensure the integrity of the count, and that the outcome will be respected?
Barr lied to Congress multiple times. Last I heard, that’s a crime. Failure to prosecute such a crime entails (at the very least) a missed opportunity, and in a more practical sense, an abdication of sworn duty.
They keep telling us to get out there and keep them in office, then when we do, we get this “we can’t do nothin'” response to clear and repeated law-breaking. Then, I ask in all sincerity, what the hell are we paying them for? I can do nothing on my own, I don’t need to pay them $200k for that.
I can respect someone who tries and fails. It’s a bit more difficult to respect someone whose default response is, nah, you do it. Well, I know we’ll all be there. Sure hope it’ll be allowed to count.
germy
Heywood J.
@Baud: I am cautiously optimistic on your first point. Biden was not my first choice, but I strongly believe he understands the enormous amount of work ahead of him (should he be allowed to win), and he is planning to work quickly and aggressively.
But that requires ensuring that the election will be allowed to proceed as intended, and that Trump’s and Barr’s open shenanigans won’t hold. It’s hard to have much confidence in that right now.
I guess we’ll see in about six weeks or so.
germy
Heywood J.
@Villago Delenda Est:
There ya go: Put ’em all behind BARRS! Something like that.
Jeffro
@Hoodie: He’s a moron, so of course he thinks he can magically keep promising a vaccine ‘right around the corner’ and win enough votes to
stay out of prisonget re-elected.He never stops to think, “Hey, they might ask me about its effectiveness…or how we’re going to produce enough for everyone…or how we’re going to get it out to the public…I better study up and have my shit together”
catclub
@john b:
Others say Fred Flintstone
West of the Rockies
Blob Barr has gone all in on Trump, a man who may well be out of power in just over four months. When that day comes, Blob will have no career in government and will be damaged goods in most of society. He will have few admirers, fewer friends, and a place in history as the most corrupt and evil AG in US history. Oh, and he will be that much closer to inexorable physical decline and death.
Dare I say… Let us savor.
Mary G
WaPo story at link:
germy
How were they to know he was with the Russians, too?
Chris Johnson
I’ve been looking at the Twitter trending for ‘Wray’ and it’s quite interesting.
FBI guy Wray is talking a number of things that are quite sensible. He correctly identifies Russian meddling as a continuing problem, he correctly identifies antifa as an ideology or movement rather than an organizations, he correctly (and somewhat unwillingly) identifies white supremacist violence as a matter of present interest to the FBI and acknowledges it’s one of their main concerns by prevalence. And he correctly identifies QAnon as a set of conspiracy theories, without any speculation on WHERE those are coming from, though he does make a point of confirming active Russian influence.
He does not say he sees Russians subverting the electoral system… and he DID see some of that in 2016, but now in 2020, apparently he’s not seeing it.
This has me wondering. I’m hoping if we sketch out some of this, and it checks out, then we have some advance warning on what the real war plans are out of Russia (since this is an ongoing war, on us, through unconventional means).
Let’s say, what if Wray is telling the truth in every particular? Nothing is stopping him from going full wingnut. He doesn’t have to confirm the white supremacist thing, or acknowledge the Russian influence, or confirm that antifa is not an organization. There is one pattern that fits everything he’s reporting and every angle he’s taking.
It is possible Russia is trying to orchestrate a sort of judo move. It would be impossibly hard and implausible to arrange for a ‘win’ for Trump, who’s not capable of earning even a vaguely close race despite every effort of the MSM to suggest there is one. We know people are pissed. It’s showing in polling even if that polling is deeply suspect. We also know the right-wingers are being led into completely insane paranoid fantasy via QAnon, which I think is another Russian operation. As Wray says, that is NOT an organization: as Adam S. and I like to say, it’s stochastic, as in, the whole point is feeding people with stuff so they will turn into terrorists, and you make no effort to micromanage this. Instead, you torture them until they lash out against their imagined enemies. Ideally you can track this through use of things like Google and Facebook, and in 2016 Russia had detailed use of Facebook data through Cambridge Analytica. Some of these tech giants, fearing consequences, are backing away from such collusion: YouTube used to run an alt-right Nazi pipeline where you’d get fed Nazis to watch, and they changed their algorithm so that now it resists doing that, as it may have been an unintended outcome.
Russia’s move here would be this: keep the Q people, keep the conspiracies on the boil, but this time they may NOT be also doing the work to actually throw the election. It would be harder this time. Last time, a lot could have been done by going in and invalidating voting records (apparently not actually flipping votes, but working on who gets disenfranchised, which is also a Republican specialty). There’s a possible strategy for them NOT doing this, in 2020.
They could be trying to orchestrate what will look to the Q people like a complete, unbelievable coup. A wave election, in which (absent Russian electoral meddling, but with tons of social meddling) they get what they expected to get in 2016 in the first place: a Dem administration, and a terrorist cult underground that they can goad and direct and act through. That’s all they really intended in 2016. They thought they’d be able to go to war against a President Clinton, who had their number from the start, and instead they ended up owning the whole show.
And that’s not real: it’s a big country. You can’t pretend that Donald Trump functionally leads it forever. The Republicans were already losing grip and desperate after eight years of Obama. I’m not convinced they can get away with faking a Trump second term victory. I think all hell would break loose.
But they can get away with pretending their LOSS was through cheating.
And if the Russians, as Wray says, are not actually trying to do the electoral cheating this time, then the plan is not to give Trump a second term. The plan is to let him fall, maybe even hope that he strokes out in outrage or directly hurt him to make him a martyr, and then have the Democrats seize a victory that is SO big that the MAGA people are sure it’s an outright coup. And then use them as terrorists, as was planned all along.
Any thoughts on this? I’m trying to get a sense of what we’re up against.
Heywood J.
@Frankensteinbeck:
No, they absolutely get credit for doing the right thing. The fact that they tried and failed won’t change any Trumpkin minds, but it definitely reinforces among at least some Democratic voters that they were willing to give it a shot. That’s not a small thing. I give them a ton of credit for it.
I can only speak for myself, but had they just dithered and whined about the impossibility of it all, there’s a decent chance I wouldn’t have bothered with it this time around.
Barbara
I don’t even pretend anymore to understand what kinds of appeals might be effective for would be Trump voters, but threatening to prosecute protestors for armed insurrection is just way, way over the top, and calling orders to close or reduce density at bars and restaurants the greatest deprivation of civil rights since slavery is just stupid. But these messages are aimed at someone, for sure, and I have to stop and ask — why is he saying these things now? The proverbial strategy for Republican presidential nominees has been to shore up conservative credentials until around July, and then “move to the middle” in order, basically, to dupe everyone else about how extreme your views might actually be. In contrast, this rhetoric seems to be aimed squarely at those who are already supposed to be committed to Trump, as in their side’s cohort of people who would crawl over broken glass to vote for him.
I look at these hysterical and threatening missives by Barr in the same vein. This is such an escalation.
Heywood J.
@Jeffro: I keep trying to imagine the window-licking dope who listens to Trump and says, Oh yeah, I want more of that. Just put in my veins!
For someone who’s supposed to be this master pitchman, he seems completely unaware of how to market outside the people who already have as much of the product as they can ever use. He needs new buyers, and the people who are stupid enough to believe him are already users.
Jeffro
@Heywood J.: Have to agree with all of this. The Dems should have kept at it with impeachment after impeachment, fine after fine, for obviously guilty/lawbreaking behavior like this.
catclub
@Villago Delenda Est: Nader has the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis on his hands, for example.
I used to post that ” so far, Trump may be terrible, but he has a much smaller body count that GWBush”
I don’t do that any more.
gwangung
@Chris Johnson: That’s POSSIBLE….and I wouldn’t be surprised if Russian agents are working on that.
But not all strategies are viable…and after 2018, and constant polling agains Trump, it’s sure not gonna be a plausible position to take for a sizable portion of the country.
Heywood J.
@Chris Johnson: You might be on to something there. Russia clearly wants chaos and destabilization here, and they may be seeing more of that in their analysis with a Biden win than a Trump win.
I’d bet that they are still leaning toward a Trump win, since he’s already under their thumb. But they might be hedging their bets more than in 2016.
Jeffro
@Chris Johnson: Russia (Putin) wants mass disruption, social chaos, economic pain for the U.S. Whatever does that is fine with them. If (since) trumpov has flailed and fucked up and is crumbling before everyone’s eyes, he has outlived his usefulness…Russia will move on and be more than happy to stoke the ‘Q’ people for as long as they’re useful, too.
Betty Cracker
A former Pence aide who was on the coronavirus task force LAST MONTH gave an interview to The Post about Trump’s mismanagement of the pandemic. I don’t know if it will amount to anything, but she’s mincing zero words and calling on other admin officials to do the right thing. Good for her.
trollhattan
@john b: @catclub:
He’s Richard Gilmore from “Gilmore Girls.”
Jeffro
@Heywood J.: If he were smart, he’d realize he needed ‘new buyers’ (ie, to expand his base). But he managed to win last time with just enough base voters plus all the other factors (Russia, Comey, the EC) and being…not smart…thinks that will work for him this time as well.
He doesn’t care. Voters are just ego-servicing to him. He doesn’t have the cunning to see that he needs more of them this time around, and he doesn’t have the self-control it would take to modulate his message even for a week.
Thank god.
Heywood J.
@Jeffro: Yeah, they’re basically defying them to at this point. Failure to act eventually undermines their own legitimacy.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Heywood J.:
And. They. Impeached. Trump. I ask again: How many people do you know in the real world, who didn’t already hate trump, who are up in arms about his acquittal? How many swing district Dems– Lamb, Davids, Underwood, Alred, McBath, Cunningham, Spanberger– are running on their vote to convict? As I far as I can see, they’re running on things like protecting and expanding health care and the social safety net, on Covid more than corruption. If you evidence to the contrary, I’d be thrilled to see it.
Do you have any evidence that the vulnerable R Senators who voted to acquit are in trouble for that vote? I don’t know, I’d be genuinely interested. Collins seems to me (from a distance) to be more in trouble for Kavanuagh than “I think the President learned his lesson”. Is Hickenlooper running ads on Ukraine? or Russia? on emoluments? Is Mark Kelly? Theresa Greenfield? Jaime Harrison?
What “measures” do you think one half of one branch of government can take? Pelosi and Schumer have tried to get election security measures into several relief bills. McConnell said no. Cory Gardner and Tom Tillis don’t seem scared by their association with Mitch McConnell.
Like you, I’m all for Constitutional hygiene, but Barr is not going to be convicted by the Senate. And while I am not a lawyer, my understanding is that the legal, prosecute-able definition of perjury is more nuanced than “Of course he lied! We all fucking know he was lying!”.
Clear to whom? hyper engaged people who read political blogs? our votes don’t win elections. And all the righteous emotion (and emoting) in the world can’t change the Constitution.
and yet, you seem utterly dismissive of the fact that Nancy Pelosi tried to impeach Donald Trump and arguably succeeded (in that he was impeached by the House) and arguably failed (in that he was acquitted by the Senate, as we all knew he would be). You don’t seem to “respect” that she tried and failed. You seem to sneer and say, “Pffft, that was, like, months ago. What has she done for me lately?”
You’re enraged at elected Democrats for responding to actual voters, instead of the voters you think should exist. And I agree with you, they should, but I don’t blame Nancy Pelosi for the fact that they don’t.
Jeffro
And what’s up with Eric trumpov suddenly being willing to talk to the NY attorney general’s office? He’s worried he’s going to jail with his dad and Jr, isn’t he? Weak Link Weak Link!!
JaySinWA
Anybody else see a prince and the pauper style swap opportunity? ETA I see @cain: is on the case.
Heywood J.
@Jeffro: Sure, but you would have at least figured he might have someone around him to go, “You know, the 2018 election showed that we’ve hemorrhaged suburban white women as a demographic, so maybe we hold off on retweeting the ‘Joe and the Ho’ goofballs?”
I’m glad he has no such advisor — or if he does, that he refuses to listen.
Dan B
@Chris Johnson: I believe the Russians have plans to benefit from any outcome. A narrow Biden win could trigger violence as well. The problem for Putin is once violence begins it may weaken the US but it can spiral out of control. A wounded animal is dangerous. I don’t believe Putin has a strategy for the worst outcome. If the US economy collapses Europe’s economy falls, or at least stagnates, then Russia’s fails.
That may be why Wray believes Putin is not going to interfere in 2020.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
John Brennan, on Nicole Wallace’s show, just stopped short of saying that Johnson and Graham don’t have the balls to actually subpoena him. He actually stopped at “they don’t have the b….”
West of the Rockies
@Chris Johnson:
Interesting points, CJ. But this is a dying thread. Maybe repost later in a post on a related topic?
Heywood J.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think you may be focusing too much on the single act of impeachment, rather than the ongoing criminality of the administration, and what other actions might be taken to at least address that.
But you are almost certainly correct that the impeachment issue itself is not a salient campaign issue for candidates of either party. I would be surprised, though, if the Democratic candidates are not bringing up, again that clear pattern of criminality as at least one of their issues.
The #TrumpPlague and its ancillary effects have of course overwhelmed all other issues, so that does knock the criminality down a few notches on the priority list. But as a matter of functionality, these things cannot continue to be ignored. Criminals are always and only emboldened by a refusal to address their actions.
In the end, it’s not on the Democrats anyway. It’s on all of us, and the fact that maybe there’s just more shitheads out there than we realized. Again, we’re about to find out.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
as my above remarks indicate, I am weary of waiting for shocking revelations to shock the Lumpenmittel, but… My god. My god.
cain
haha! You know some priest already tried the two wetsuits but it involved a dildo apparently :D Which would incense the evangelicals – cuz they like their wingnuts to be gay free.
Tony Jay
@Miss Bianca:
Oh, I’ve been around, but yeah, the rollercoaster descent of British everything into late-Weimar authoritarianism with a heavy slathering of open corruption has been depressing. Four more years of this, probably, and it’s absolutely only going to get worse next year.
Savour your (almost certain) victory this November. The world needs some good news.
Matt McIrvin
@JPL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blJGRdBtUz0
Aleta
@WaterGirl: I don’t think any action, even minor, would occur right now (in response to the letter from the NYC Bar Association or to the letter that lawyers sent to the DC Bar Assoc. disciplinary officials), because of “influencing the election.” (Which is rich; but OK.) I’m wondering whether that will continue to be the case once it’s a sitting duck administration or whether (I hope) he’ll at least get some degree of brand with dishonor while in office. Because otherwise he stymied the system the whole time in office. Which don’t feel right.
Mary G
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’d be disgrutled too, if I had been in on the government coronavirus task force. Righteously angry, in fact. Waiting for MAGAts to issue death threats to Olivia Troye, her family, and pets in 3, 2, 1…
Also QAnon is definitely going to accuse her of molesting children.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
: blinks blankly into the middle distance :
trollhattan
@Mary G:
Shorter Mike Pence: Only play politics in odd-numbered years.
WaterGirl
@JaySinWA: It’s not Prince and the Pauper, It’s Dave! Dave is what we should be going for.
What a great movie.
Geminid
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ve thought for a several years that Brennan had this cat-that-ate-the canary look, like he knows stuff he won’t say: namely, the facts of trump’s long criminal history. That wouldn’t be a surprise; after all Brennan was CIA head, and held top level positions before that. Trump’s CIA file probably started when he made his 1985 trip to Moscow, if not before, and I bet it was fairly thick the last time Brennan read it. Former NSA head Michael Hayden has shown confidence similar to Brennan. They both swore to keep secret material secret, and I think they still want to. But Brennan was maybe signaling, if Graham and others want to fight it out, I can take the gloves off.
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Holy fuck. What a disgusting creature.
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That ad deserves an embed.
Chris Johnson
Not exactly what I said. I’m convinced QAnon is Russia-driven. What I’m saying is, that Putin is going to switch to 100% QAnon and getting right-wing terrorists to flood the country, and is not going to try and make the electoral process cough up a Trump win. I think it’s possible that it would be too difficult, and Wray says he’s not subverting the electoral process, but IS trying to undermine Biden. That counts as Putin subverting the country, and if I’m right it’s on a huge scale. It’s just not specifically trying to deliver a ‘Trump win’ out of the election.
And I’m suggesting that Putin has a game plan involving the appearance of an overwhelming Biden win and a Dem wave… it’s an interesting tactic, depends on how badly we will be thrown off balance by waves of crazed QAnon bombers. This is not Putin giving up. It’s a return to what he thought he would be doing after 2016.
Betty Cracker
@Heywood J.:
This is true. My take is the House Dems have made the political calculation that another impeachment in the middle of a pandemic while were hurtling toward an election is too politically risky. They might be right. But that makes it all the more imperative to hold the Trump people, including and maybe especially Barr, to account if we win. No turning the page to unite the country.
Matt McIrvin
@Chris Johnson:
But wouldn’t all hell breaking loose be even better, from Russia’s perspective? You’d get more mass protests, some violence, and that gives Trump the opening to just have the army start gunning crowds down in the streets. Some states start talking about seceding. Complete destabilization of the US, whose power as a global empire is just gone at that point. An unconvincing fake election could actually destroy the United States completely.
Chris Johnson
@Matt McIrvin: Trump doesn’t have the army.
If he did, he wouldn’t have DHS people bundling protesters into unmarked vans, he wouldn’t have to work through cops and random Fed agencies. He would be able to send in the troops and would have already done so. He doesn’t have command of the army.
I was arguing this in a lefty subreddit. The reason is, he has total contempt for the military. He has open contempt for military DEAD. This makes him so sickeningly disgusting to US Military, particularly high ranking military and a bunch of the troops, that he’s alienated them, telegraphed that he is an enemy. Which he is: he serves Russia, incoherently.
If he was not Trump, it might be another story. But he openly shows contempt for everything the military is, and stands for. Lefties don’t always see that as they think the military are just mercs and barbarians anyway. Trump also thinks they are dumb mercs and cannon fodder, and he shows it, and the military doesn’t like attitude like that from left-wingers but they’re REALLY not used to seeing it from right-wingers. I don’t believe there’s any chance that they will side with Trump if there’s an attempt at a coup. They are more likely to be found defending polling places from right-wing terrorists, than attacking our electoral system.
Chris Johnson
I’ve long wondered how much our Dem leadership knows. For instance, Pelosi’s got control of the House and has brought ‘Justice Dems’ into harness, and Pelosi is prepared to accuse Trump to his face of being run by Putin: ‘all roads lead to Putin, with you’. Suppose she is not just taunting, but telling the literal truth.
Why might she, or other Dems, not be looking to nail all the traitors to the wall as hard as possible?
It seems to me the real goal is to deliver a Dem administration that’s capable of taking charge and doing a lot. We are indeed capable of that. But what if Pelosi, etc. are being briefed by the spooks, FBI, CIA etc to the effect of, “We consider that Putin, who is running Trump and subverting the Republicans, means to throw them under the bus in order to create the impression that the Democrats are a revolutionary coup. Watch yourself, and don’t put across the appearance that you intend to string up all the Republicans and take over the country. Act like things are more normal.”
This would fit with what Wray said, that Putin was working hard to undermine Biden and Dem legitimacy but was not actually trying, this time, to deliver a Trump victory. That would suggest the judo thing, where they WANT the Dems to appear like we’ve flipped the table and arrested all our political enemies ‘cos they got in the way of our cannibal adrenochrome parties. Not a brilliant tactic but easier than trying to fake a Trump win at this point. You instead flip the other way and hope for a blowout that is so extreme that the QAnons all think they have to turn full terrorist. I know people who’ve been sucked into that pipeline and they think they’re fighting Satan, pretty much, and that Satan is winning. They aren’t being led to believe that they are winning, they’re being led to think the forces of evil are CRUSHING all that’s good.
In that light, Dems being measured and methodical is wise. Anything aggressive we do WILL be turned against us. It’s like Trump harassing Portland: he WANTS there to be violence, and Putin WANTS us to start lining all the traitors up against a wall… because he has a narrative that would play right into, and he knows he might be able to get it, because he KNOWS which of us are the traitors, ‘cos he’s working with ’em. Not everything has to be as hands-off as QAnon is.
Ian
@Heywood J.:
I find it hard to blame the non voters more than the people who actively voted for it, but YMMV.
As to punishment, this is a democracy, no? Why are we talking about punishing people for not voting?
JaySinWA
@WaterGirl:
I couldn’t think of the movie name, but P&P probably has more familiarity. at least it stuck with me, unlike the Dave movie.
WaterGirl
@JaySinWA: Dave is one of my favorite movies. I’m not sure I could have come up with the Prince and the Pauper if you had promised me a thousand dollars.