Romney just announced that he’ll vote for a RBG replacement this year, so Mitch probably has the votes to go ahead.
I’m so disgusted by this whole spectacle that I’ll just outsource further commentary to Josh Marshall, who is right when he says that Democrats need to expand the supreme court and federal courts* in response, and also right when he points out that arguments of the form “if we pack the court, Republicans will do something even worse” are arguments from impotence.
As I see it, we have two choices: (1) put up with the pearl clutching of the DC press and the whining and caterwauling of Republicans when we make DC a state, pack the courts, and otherwise play hardball, or (2) lose.
* Expanding federal courts is what I’m advocating, not Josh, but it’s consistent with rebalancing the courts.
On The Road After Dark – WaterGirl – Farewell to Paris
neldob
We can also protest like we should have when Garland was denied a hearing.
Ohio Mom
I never stopped hating him. Romney falls under my policy of hating all Republicans.
I’ll put this news in my “More Bad News 2020” file, but I may need a new folder, the first one is pretty full.
Imusselm
This angers me so much – but is entirely expected. I just hope the Dems can pull it together to expand the court. The usual suspects are already whining (Feinstein).
The level of my anger on this inspired my first real comment after maybe five years of lurking. Otherwise… hope everyone has a good morning/day.
-I
zhena gogolia
They’re all Stalinists. It’s just raw power exercised with no regard for principles or norms. It’s really kind of awe-inspiring.
Nicole
I forget who tweeted about this on Friday or Saturday AM, but they basically said this- that McConnell would grant permission to vote no to one or two Senators who would benefit from voting no, but keep everyone else voting yes. Romney hates Trump, but he doesn’t hate McConnell. I wonder if it’ll come out years from now that McConnell gave him the okay to vote for removal on the one count of impeachment. Wouldn’t surprise me.
There are no good Republicans.
zhena gogolia
@neldob:
What good will that do? Spread some Covid? Bring more Republicans to the polls?
VOR
Mitt’s always had a backbone made of the purest jello with a weathervane for a conscience. He had one brief flirtation with going against the pack when he knew it made no real difference.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Mitt Fucking Rmoney: Shoulders you could land a 747 on, somehow held up without a spine. He has trace evidence of a cartilaginous spine but it’s not the same as proof of a backbone.
I’m sure I stole that quote from somebody here during the 2012 campaign.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Nicole:
This is how McConnell works. It was Mitt’s turn to take one for the team, and he did.
gene108
@zhena gogolia:
For years, I thought Republicans were Leninists, because they basically tapped into the same dynamic Lenin figured out. A well focused minority can overwhelm an unfocused majority.
So I guess the natural progression is towards Stalinism.
Ryan
Can the House abolish the Senate?
RaflW
Igor Volsky, who was a strong organizer in the save-ACA effort that culminated in McCain’s thumbs down moment says, in part:
Real the whole thread. It’s only seven tweets. And I agree. I’m seeing some folks over there being all defeatist. Use Mitt’s no-surprise betrayal of any remaining ‘values’ as fuel – peel off that wavering Republican family member who says not all Republicans are. Yes, Uncle Steve, they are. All of them have lost their way.
oatler.
Susan Collins is concerned.
Benw
@gene108: so Alaska will be the new Siberia?
Can I opt-in to the Hawaiian gulag?
Baud
I agree with Josh’s second point, which Biden is following — he shouldn’t make specific promises about how the Dems will respond.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@RaflW: The issue with his analysis is that he doesn’t take a lame duck appointment vote into account. If Collins and all the other vulnerables lose, they will have zero reason not to vote for a R appointee after the election. And every other R will have at least 2 years before their next election.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: also, before I sign on to any “Joe Biden MUST strongly endorse this tweet!” demands, I want to see some polling on the issue, and hear how Cal Cunningham and Theresa Greenfield feel about it.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Baud:
I thought Biden’s response (forgot where I read it) that Trump would just use anything he says wrt court packing as a distraction so he just won’t engage on that, was pitch perfect.
SiubhanDuinne
He needs to just strap a dog to the roof of his car and drive away forever.
Baud
@download my app in the app store mistermix: It’s in the morning thread. And it was an excellent response.
WereBear
I never stopped.
And it just goes to show there are no good Republicans. Name me one reliable one that is still in the party.
I’m not even waiting. I’ve got something on the stove.
Kay
It’s just so bad that they’re actively hoping to take peoples health insurance away.
How is anyone supposed to plan anything in this country? I’m serious. How are they supposed to be able to run their lives when there’s this huge group of powerful people who spend all day cooking up ways to throw their lives into chaos? Would it be so fucking bad for people to have some security? It will free them up! They can’t even have that one area of security? These assholes have decided that’s too good for the US public, that we must suffer.
RaflW
@Nicole: Romney can do just about anything and win in Utah. And he isn’t up this year. So, yeah, I am sure McConnell did a nose count and dispensed two hall passes to the most vulnerable Rs.
Cory Gardner was deemed beyond saving. Which makes him reckless, but soon out. I’m encouraging folks with CO connections to support down-ballot swing races there. Punish the whole state GOP for Cory’s sins.
lamh36
Mittens “Weathervane” Romney strikes again, surprising no one.
Unfortunately, the time to protect the SCOTUS was in 2016. But too many folks let misinformation guide them to think HRC had it in the bag or HRC and Chump were both the same. What we gotta do now is VOTE THR REPUBLICANS OUT AND FLIP THE SENATE and just maybe we can expand the SCOTUS and mitigate the damage.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
I don’t understand these people. Aren’t they afraid that they’re going to provoke a violent reaction? If the ACA is repealed, either somebody who is dying but can’t receive care or a family member of the former could feel they have nothing left to lose and try to kill them.
The 2017 Republican Baseball Practice is evidence that they’re all vulnerable. Scalise almost fucking died from his wounds.
patrick II
You know that in addition to all of the other terrible things intrinsic to being right-wing Federalist Society approved, whoever is Trump’s nominee will have had to swear a loyalty oath to him for any cases hitting the Supreme Court. One other reason for pre-election nomination and approval.
schrodingers_cat
@RaflW: Thank You. Defeatism is a choice for well off white people for whom another term of the Orange One will hurt the least. They can afford to be defeatist, but many of us don’t have that privilege.
hitless
This means the ACA is gone and Trump will have succeeded in annihilating the Obama presidency.
But I guess history is filled with disgusting and tragic stories, and there is no reason why this age should be any different.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@hitless:
No, it doesn’t. Stop being a defeatist. This isn’t the end
Kay
Ideally you want a health care system people don’t have to worry about constantly, which frees them up for things like caring for their family and working. They won’t be featherbedding! No worries there. They’ll fill the “panicking about health care every 6 months” slot with something more productive.
We’re never allowed to just move on. Ten fucking years these people have been threatening us. Dragging us back into the umpteenth Obamacare fight.
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
I knew the day Ginsburg died that they would get their justice. It was worth making a stink over it, and raising money over, and pointing out what weasels they are, but this was one we were always going to lose.
What we do from here on out is pour money into the Democratic campaigns, vote, and then lean on every fucking elected Democrat to cram more seats onto the courts when they take office.
“But then that’ll give Republicans an excuse to do this and so if they take power later!” is a load of reeking horseshit. Republicans don’t need excuses to do anything. They’ll do what they want to do, every time, because they can, and that’s what they do.
The sooner elected Democrats learn this, the better.
hitless
@Kay: I agree – it’s baffling to me because I’m not even sure what Republicans get from having a bunch of uninsured people…or uninsurable people through pre-existing conditions. Does it make them that much more money?
Baud
@hitless:
They get bargaining power in Congress to implement laws that funnels more money to the industry in exchange for lower quality insurance and access to health care.
RinaX
I’ve been operating under the assumption that we are paying for the stupidity, corruption, and inaction of others from 2016. It was clear that the Supreme Court was on the line, and that wasn’t enough for some people.
I never stopped disliking Mittens. Its been exasperating seeing his stock rise among political analysts just because he hides his bullshit behind better-fitting suits. He’s no better than Susan Collins and deserves the same disdain. He’s only considered a moderate because Trump rejected his attempts to suck up after he won. Remember those pics of Romney and Trump at the restaurant, forever capturing the true craven of Romney? I do.
Nicole
@hitless:
As others have said, if the ACA is ended, but we take back Congress, they’ll vote in something else, and probably something better, because doing so would be popular (now that people have had 10 years of ACA- as Pelosi said, they had to find out what was in the bill to discover how much they liked it).
I fucking hate this, but I can’t help but wonder if there will be less fighting on the GOP side if new health care passes under a white President. Like, as you said, this is all about annihilating the Obama Presidency because the GOP are a bunch of fucking white supremacists and cannot abide the thought of any legislation existing that was passed under the black guy.
Obama, being Obama, I’m sure doesn’t give a flying fuck if the ACA ends up replaced by something else as long as there is health care available for Americans, but it really makes me mad. God almighty, white patriarchy is fucking exhausting to live under.
cmorenc
Agree that hardball with court-rebalancing is our only option, even though it opens the door to a potentially infinite sequence of retaliatory re-balances next time the GOP has POTUS and Senate, the next time after that the Ds have POTUS and Senate, ultimately resulting in an unwieldy, unstable court and constitutional structure. The potential upside of such a constitutional crisis is that it might force a resolution toward a more sustainable reform, such as limited maximum terms for SCOTUS justices.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.):
Exactly. They’d get there eventually anyway. By expanding the federal judiciary and the SCOTUS, we’ll be further ahead next time and in a better position to fight the next GOP federal government
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@hitless: if you listen to the way they talked about UI benefits and other Covid relief, Republicans lie awake at night tormented by visions of the undeserving poor, eating food stamp crab legs while watching their lucky-duck brand big screen TVs and laughing at the poor saps who get up and go to work every morning. If they don’t have to punch a clock to get health insurance, they’ll quit their jobs and get on disability.
Remember Paul Ryan’s sad-face when he talked about how our “inner cities” have lost the culture of the work ethic or some such nonsense? He meant that. That was the real Sweet Paulie Blue-Eyes showing us his Randian ass.
hitless
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
It’s not defeatist – it’s just the truth. I intend to vote and donate and I wouldn’t bother if I knew for sure it wouldn’t make a difference. But that hope doesn’t change what has happened.
I think it’s important appreciate reality, because without that it’s unlikely the same mistakes that got us here can be avoided in the future.
Jeffery
The time for tough love for rightwingers is long over due. If the Democrats take complete control of the government they should do everything the majority wants them to do.
Baud
@RinaX:
Absolutely.
cmorenc
@Kay:
Which is why Biden is being very savvy keeping the focus on COVID, Health Care, and the GOP’s fecklessness and attempts to take coverage (especially for those with pre-existing conditions) away, and postponing the fight over reforming the courts until *after* his inauguration.
Betty Cracker
Y’all know which state has the highest number of people who purchase health insurance under the ACA? Florida. Almost two million people are insured through the ACA here.
Omnes Omnibus
Just an observation. The FDR Court packing scheme did not succeed. Oddly though, the Court’s decisions changed. Coincidence?
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus: Right. Constant pressure helps even if it does not result in an actual increase in the size of the court.
ETA: The pressure is why Roberts saved the ACA the first time.
neldob
@zhena gogolia: Maybe the BLM folks should never have protested? Sometimes a person “has to put your bodies upon the gears” -Mario Savio.
mad citizen
I have tweeted my two R Senators twice this morning, once telling them if they do this, my rage will move to white hot rage. I sent them the Post column linked here in the last thread (hat tip!).
Expanding the court should go along with ALL THE OTHER SHIT that needs fixed. Assuming we take over the two houses and WH, it should be a flood the zone time with 50 or 100 things happening at once, so many that the R’s won’t be able to contain them–also because they will be favored by the majority of the nation.
Post expanding SCOTUS, we need to change this political body entirely to 9 justices with 18 year staggered terms, a new one ending every two years. Back when the lifetime thing was created, people lived 25 or 40 years on average. Google just told me even in the late 1800s to 1900, it was still only 40-47 or so. This current system of waiting on luck, etc., is simply wrong.
zhena gogolia
@RinaX:
Yep. Frog’s legs.
Di
I’m from MA and Romney doing the wrong thing isn’t in the least surprising. He’s always been and will forever be a weasel.
Nicole
@Omnes Omnibus:
I always interpreted it as FDR stopped trying to pack the Court when the justices started giving him what he wanted. Biden would do well to learn from that. Hell, a little suggestion to Kavanaugh that the DOJ is thinking about looking into who paid off his debts might be enough to make him rethink how he votes.
zhena gogolia
@neldob:
My focus is on the election. There’s a guy in our church prayer group who whenever I mention voting wants to switch the conversation to “social movements” and marches and protests. We need to focus on the voting right now.
Xentik
@cmorenc: I feel like this idea that there’ll be a back and forth of retaliation is flawed. I’m 100% certain that if there’s another Republican administration within the next decade, that will be the end of Democracy in the US. The next one, after all, will be composed entirely of people who feel that Fascism is an entirely acceptable solution to their economic anxiety.
As far as expanding the judiciary goes, I believe it was on the podcast Opening Arguments where I heard it pointed out that the Federal Court system has roughly the same number of judges today that it did in the 1950’s-60’s, and like 2-3x the caseload. This means that Judges encourage parties to settle out of court, because they simply do not have time to deal with every case. Increasing the number of judges means more cases can go to trial, means more white collar criminals can be brought to justice instead of simply being given a fine and told not to do it again.
gene108
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
People have not reacted violently to political decisions in this country in a very, very long time.
The risks of violence are low.
The reason, I think, they want the SCOTUS to repeal the ACA, as well as packing the lower courts with right-wing judges is because this way Republican Congressmen do not have to do any work to repeal popular laws.
The hatchet work will be done by the courts, so Republican Congressmen do not have any tough votes to be used against them.
Matt McIrvin
@hitless: Did you read David Anderson’s post? The overturning of the ACA can be undone by a trivial legislative patch. If the Dems get the trifecta and end the filibuster, this goes away. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the specific motivation for ending the filibuster.
Hungry Joe
Romney’s calculations include another run for Prez in ‘24. Can’t do that without the base. So … priorities.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: We don’t want to do that to a dog! Maybe Romney should be strapped to the top of the car since it’s “harmless”.
Seriously, though. This is starting to feel like Kavanaugh, where we held out hope that this could stop him, or that could stop him, valiantly holding with “it’s not over til it’s over”. But then, of course, it was over.
So this is quite upsetting to me this morning.
But I still stand where I did on Saturday, even if they seat someone, we will have lost that battle, but voting is the war, for all the marbles. That’s why I added the category:
This Fight Is For Everything.
Matt McIrvin
@Omnes Omnibus: For FDR, that was success. All he had to do was threaten.
Nicole
@mad citizen:
The average short life span prior to the 20th century was because child mortality was so high. Death in childbirth was a much higher risk for women then, too, which pulled the average down. For people who made it to adulthood, they had a reasonably good chance of living to see grandchildren.
I googled the average age at which USSC justices are appointed, and it’s stayed relatively consistent throughout history- appointed in their mid 50s.
Omnes Omnibus
@mad citizen: Life expectancy figures from the past are somewhat misleading as they tend to include infant mortality and childhood illnesses. Once men got to adulthood, living a long life wasn’t that uncommon. For women, the dangers of childbirth fucked everything up.
Emerald
I think it’s actually worse than the ACA, Roe, Griswald, DACA, LGBTQ and all other civil rights, environmental law, Social Security and Medicare, and essentially eliminating the 20th century.
I think it’s wiping out the election. If they seat her before the election no matter if we win every state they’ll invalidate the vote and keep tRump president. Don’t think Roberts won’t go along with it. He will.
That’s why they’re rushing. That’s why they don’t care about electoral consequences. They have to get her seated before Nov. 3rd.
I mean, it’s happened before, and recently.
Oh, fun fact: It seems that the cult of the leading candidate, People of Praise, was the inspiration for Margaret Atwood.
Omnes Omnibus
@Matt McIrvin: @Nicole: That was my point.
gene108
@mad citizen:
Life expectancy averages include infant mortality, as well as childhood deaths due to diseases that are preventable today.
If someone survived to adulthood reaching 70 was not unusual.
RaflW
@mistermix: I don’t disagree with this. But you stage the battle. Make Republicans work as hard as possible for this shit.
And as John Stoehr says, “first, build a majority recoiling from GOP’s naked power-lust.”
Betty Cracker
@Hungry Joe: Romney might think he’ll have another shot at a nomination, but if so, he’s delusional.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
I doubt that the SCOTUS justices in the 1930s were extreme right-wing ideologues who fundamentally don’t believe in liberal representative democracy. No, they’d react more like their congressional counterparts: invincible and working overtime to ensure no other opposition party ever has any power again. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the fascists on the Court to rule the recent “Ban the Demonrat Party” bill constitutional
Sab
Well, I hope Stiart Stevens is embarrassed. He thinks Romney walks on water.
Yutsano
@Hungry Joe: I’m too lazy to look up Willard’s age right now, but I noted down below he’s starting to get a little old to enact the White Horse Prophecy. It won’t stop him from trying because of Biden, but it might be perceived as a drawback especially against a 59 year old Kamala.
Omnes Omnibus
@zhena gogolia: We can do both.
Quinerly
OT:
Good read in response to Trump/Miller’s Patriotic Education. I really think his speech at the National Archives isn’t getting enough press (but who the fuck has time? We are fighting multiple fire hydrants spewing at us)
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/the-rights-long-war-on-howard-zinn-reaches-the-white-house
Matt McIrvin
@gene108:
Political violence is actually pretty common these days. It’s just that most of the time, it’s either right-wingers, or it’s people upset about cops murdering their neighbors. I wouldn’t be surprised to see that expand.
Thaddeu
We will get to thirteen on The Court. But for now,
Get a democratic President elected. Get Democrats elected up and down the ballot Senate, Congress, State,….. dogcatcher.
Get the most liberal Democrats for their constituency elected. Definitely not the Feinstein kind from California. They should not expect Kamala/Biden/Schumer to endorse an effort to ditch Feinstein, and should not do it based on what they say. They should elect someone who represents California
Democrats need to massively engage in primaries. The rest will fix itself.
Thats the way to get thirteen on the Court.
Dupe1970
Thus fulfilling my maxim: There are no good Republicans.
Baud
@Emerald:
Again, they didn’t invalidate the vote in Bush v. Gore. They invalidated the recount. It was wrong but don’t make it something it wasn’t.
Nicole
@Omnes Omnibus: I was agreeing with your initial comment. The objective is not the number of justices: it’s having enough justices who rule the way you want. And if some can be persuaded to rethink their positions, that’s just as good as bringing in additional faces. Outcome is the same.
patrick II
@Kay:
How is anyone supposed to plan anything with this country from outside of it? Our (former) allies are exasperated, or in the case of the Kurds, demolished. We’re like a beach ball caught in the wind but blowing towards fascism.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Emerald:
This. That’s a big reason why they’re rushing it before the election. Otherwise, why not simply wait until after the election, in the lame duck? They will use the Courts to steal the election.
And if that happens, what’s the plan, then?
JPL
@Betty Cracker: My first thought was that he didn’t want anything to stand in the way of his sons future in politics He’s afraid of the tweet.
RaflW
@Kay: I am fearful for the next few years. Things will get worse, and of course I’d rather not go through this, but if SCOTUS strikes down the ACA, but Biden is President, we have to do what’s been necessary for a couple of decades now: Return to an agenda of actively legislating.
Dems have been too reliant on the courts. No, I’m not some anti ‘activist judges’ moron. We did what was expedient and that’s how politics works. But it came at a big cost. We participated in the atrophying process of Congress legislating less and less.
This stops. We have to use the generational energy I see rising to re-assert the right of the people to pass some god damned laws. It is why pushing Mitch to minority leader (at least) is vital.
And to @Goku’s point, there is a rage simmering just below the surface that I think Republicans are insulated from and don’t understand. I’m opposed to violence, but this past summer’s street demos will be just the preview reel if ACA goes down.
Baud
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
The Court from the post reconstruction period until the late New Deal was incredibly reactionary. More so than to current court. This was the Plessy and Lochnor era.
SFAW
@Kay:
Yes. You’ve heard the term “wage slave,” right? They don’t want that literally — well, some of them don’t want that — but that’s pretty much the end goal. The decades-long work to destroy unions has been part of that. You may think I’m kidding. I’m not. [Well maybe a little, but not much.]
No. The oligarchs (or however you want to characterize them) want the masses to be dependent on them for life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, etc. Making employment “security” a constant battle for the powerless keeps them in their place.
Lest any of the usual suspects call this Eeyore-ism: I’m merely responding to Kay’s questions. I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion by any stretch that they’ll succeed — but it would help if the “but-but-but Biden’s (figurative) e-mails!!!” crowd* would STFU, grow the fuck up, and do everything they can to get Biden and a Dem Senate elected.
*Not putting anyone here in that group, just thinking of the Bern-or-Bust-ers.
Mary G
Add me to the list of people who never stopped hating Mitt. It was utter bullshit to vote yes on one count of impeachment and not the other. It was Susan Collins level of concern.
IANAL but can’t the Ds just vote to restore the mandate in the ACA in January and make the current lawsuit moot, killing it? The Supremes would show their asses if they disregarded that. Another case would of course start its way up the ladder, but Twitler has demonstrated the value of delay and obstruction. Democrats have to let go of being the good child in the family and fight as dirty as the other side does.
JPL
A front pager should put this photo up It explains everything
https://twitter.com/Eugene_Scott/status/1308421765346086912
Mike in NC
Most of us never stopped hating Mitt the Shit, for very good reasons.
Betty Cracker
@Yutsano: Romney will be 77 in 2024, same age as Biden now. I’m hoping this mini-trend of geriatric candidates ends after Trump and Biden and that our next primary features Harris vs. some fresh-faced fascist, whom she crushes to dust under her Timbs.
blacque_jacques
I posted this to a couple of very dead threads on the weekend, but here goes again:
Do we have to pack the courts? If we keep the House and win the Senate, can’t we start 2021 by declaring open season on any Justices who perjured themselves during their hearings or displayed bad character? Kavanaugh almost certainly did; Trump’s stooge almost certainly will. Impeach and remove them, reducing the 6-3 GOP majority to 4-3, including Roberts. No actions, pledges, etc. required of Biden, because it goes ahead whether he wins or loses.
If Biden wins and Trump’s chaos play fails, two picks make an instant Democratic majority of 5-4. The first seat is for Garland if he still wants it.
If Biden loses, the House and Senate remove one more from Alito, Thomas, Roberts, or Gorsuch. (Gorsuch seems to have grown into the job, for a conservative.) Senate in permanent session, so no recess appointments. Trump can nominate two new Justices, starting with Garland. The second has to pass an emboldened Senate.
No court packing necessary.
WaterGirl
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): The plan is to get so many people to vote Democrat for this election that – even with lying, cheating and stealing – the Republicans are not successful.
What are you doing to make that happen? Maybe hearing about what a young pup like you is doing to make this happen will help some of us feel less panicky.
sdhays
It’s been forgotten by some that Mitt Romney’s 2012 campaign was a high mark for outright lying (and he was praised for getting away with it in the first debate with President Obama) – that is until the 2016 campaign. I still don’t know why he voted to impeach. It was so out of character for him.
He’s not spineless – he’s just a piece of shit, and no one should expect anything other than shit from him.
Mike in NC
@Betty Cracker: The fresh faced fascist that the GOP picks in ’24 will be Tom Cotton. Bank on it.
khead
@gene108:
And you would be correct. The USSC will be striking down laws the right doesn’t like because someone didn’t cross a T on page 137 of the text.
Emerald
@Baud: I expect them to invalidate vote-by-mail. That outta be enough. Plus, even if he loses badly, tRump will still have his power, and will use all of it to stay in office, no matter the Constitution. His new Court will uphold it all. What was that he was saying about the Insurgency Act of 1807 again?
Yeah, I’m that far down the hole.
The only thing that has stopped him during these four years is the law. With his new SCOTUS, there is no law.
Somebody, talk me off the ledge.
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus:
Trying to make sure I’m following you properly: are you saying (or implying) that the attempted court-packing led the then-Justices to rule differently (from a political viewpoint) than they had been?
James E Powell
@sdhays:
I’ve been saying this for years. A person who runs Bain Capital – ruining lives for money – is not a good person.
Betty Cracker
@Mike in NC: I wouldn’t bet against that outcome, though Hawley is also laying the groundwork to inherit the Twitler Youth.
Matt McIrvin
@RaflW:
We have to do this regardless. Much of the brokenness of American government comes from the fact that strong partisanship + constitutional hardball, applied to rules intended for a weakly partisan debating society, has made Congress incapable of passing substantive laws except under the most extreme conditions. That needs to change somehow or we need to throw out our whole system of government.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@patrick II:
Our allies are having problems of their own. Look at the UK. Look at the Australian government for god’s sakes! They were blatantly lying to the public about the wildfires last year. They’re completely in thrall to the coal industry. Fascist Marie Le Pen nearly won the French presidency a few years back. Germany isn’t in great shape either. Their “Alternative for Germany” is a fascist, xenophobic party gaining traction. The Conservatives in Canada have gone off the deep end too.
This isn’t just an American problem. All over the world, populist authoritarian parties are rising
Baud
@Emerald:
I think if they invalidate vote by mail, that’ll be the end of the Court.
Matt McIrvin
@blacque_jacques: Conviction in an impeachment trial requires a Senate supermajority. That’s not Senate rules, it’s in the constitution. So actually removing judges this way is not going to be possible, any more than we could remove Trump.
henrythefifth
At this point, I see no downside to the Dems getting rid of the filibuster (if they take the Senate) and doing what they want to do. Then, if they lose power, let the Republicans actually do all the shitty things they want to. They won’t stay in power long. It will lead to a lot of ebb and flow in the law/outcomes, but screw it. We have to stop just playing defense. We’ve been losing ground for decades.
SFAW
@blacque_jacques:
What mechanism to “remove” an existing justice outside of impeachment? I have been assuming (A) impeachment is the only (official) method and (B) it would require a two-thirds vote. If both (A) and (B) are correct, then what makes you think the “removal” would ever happen?
Even if Kavanaugh were tried and convicted for perjury, what makes you think he’d lose more than a few Rethug votes?
Heidi Mom
@Baud: And if health insurance is decoupled from employment and made available to all, employees can more easily move around and find the job that’s the best fit for them. Republicans probably dislike the very idea of that.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
Yes, but they still accepted the very idea of democratic government and the rule of law, even if they restricted who got to vote. It was democracy for white people. The current GOP? They don’t believe in multiparty democracy or the rule of law. The law is only something to empower themselves and destroy their enemies to them
Omnes Omnibus
@SFAW: Yes.
James E Powell
@RinaX:
Completely agree. I said the same thing in 2000 and it wasn’t good enough for some people then either. Every day I pray for the demise of the NYT.
Emerald
@Baud: How? Please convince me.
So, yeah, we take to the streets, thereby giving tRump the excuse for invoking the Insurgency Act. Gonna be a bloodbath, but we’re that angry.
If they go as far as my dark fantasy, then I’m happy I’m a native Californian. Could get our own nation out of this. We’ve got the population and the economic chops for it. Y’all are welcome to come.
Baud
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
We disagree if you believe the current Court is worse than that court in absolute terms.
It may be worse in relative terms vis a vis general society.
RaflW
@Betty Cracker: And if you ask a Republican voter in Florida about that, I’d wager that they say:
I don’t believe that.
I don’t know anyone on ACA.
They’re still robbing me blind on taxes! (as they scoot into their three car garage in a blingy golf cart, to park next to a Cadillac sedan and a big SUV).
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
I fear it will be the end of American democracy as we know it. The GOP will never let another Democrat occupy the White House or control either house of Congress again, if they can help it
SFAW
@Baud:
How so? Would the Rethugs attempt to abolish it? Or do you mean “end of their perceived position as an impartial third branch.”
Quinerly
@Emerald: agree with you 100%. It’s all about undoing the election.
Baud
@Emerald:
Do you think Trump is going to live forever, or that he’s going to anoint Ivanka as his successor? Real people still exist, and they’re not just going to go in with their lives like nothing happened, if you’re scenario comes to pass.
Baud
@SFAW: The court has no army to enforce it’s own decisions. Everything rests on its legitimacy. The GOP can’t hold people back forever.
James E Powell
@Baud:
What you say is true, but is it really that hard to imagine them going one step further? They’d have FOX, Sinclair, RW Radio blaring full support while the NYT & the cable shows would be giving it the “some say” and “both sides” treatment. There are no more institutional barriers to Republican hegemony.
RaflW
@Hungry Joe: He’ll be 77 years old. As we see this cycle, of course that’s not too old to run. But for god’s sake, can we try for someone maybe under 60?
Just a wild thought.
bemused
@Ohio Mom:
“Corporations are people, my friend.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: I agree, Cotton has too strong a “that boy ain’t right” vibe. Hawley can do the aw shucks things better
Emerald
@Baud: True. That helps. And I’m warming to the tumbrel idea.
mad citizen
Thank for the corrections on life expectancy in older times–I had that nagging feeling about infant mortality pulling down the average but was too lazy to confirm.
OT: Just saw a postcard I received yesterday asking me to complete the census, etc. It’s from Attorney General Letitia James, New York. I’m in central Indiana, have never lived in or near New York (or any other state). What is this? Nice picture, though.
For a second I thought our AG had resigned: A Republican who drunkenly harassed women at party, etc. Our State Supreme court had to get involved. The result was: “INDIANAPOLIS — Indiana Attorney General Curtis Hill, who has sought national attention as an anti-abortion and tough-on-crime crusader, will have his law license suspended for 30 days over allegations that he drunkenly groped a state lawmaker and three other women during a party, the state Supreme Court ruled Monday.May 11, 2020″
Baud
@James E Powell:
Is it hard to imagine? No. Nothing is anymore. Is it likely? I don’t think so. What does it get the justices to throw away the court’s credibility for the aged Donald Trump? They’re main goal issue to issue business-friendly decisions for the next 40 years.
ETA: This assumes the scenario where they overturn a clear Biden win by preventing ballots from being counted. If the election is close, I can more easily see the court doing some Bush v. Gore type shit.
blacque_jacques
@Matt McIrvin: <Peter Griffin>Aw, crap!</Peter Griffin>.
I’d thought it was a simple majority. Another beautiful plan crashes on the rocks of ugly fact.
But I’m not discouraged, dammit!
EDIT: I sent my voter registration from overseas almost 4 weeks ago: nada, according to the registry website. Sending another tomorrow. @#$% Texas
MattF
Rather to my surprise, George Fucking Will is forcefully opposed to the current Republican SCOTUS hypocrisy. He even sorta accepts court-packing as the inevitable consequence. No, no link to Will.
gvg
@SFAW: That is the generally accepted opinion as I understand it. Now professional historians are more nuanced and sometimes even contrary, but I’ve heard this for decades, everytime the Supreme Court stays in the news awhile.
Ruckus
@Kay:
Others suffering is how they think the world works. Using suffering to their advantage is a core value, not ending or at least decreasing it. They think money makes them better, but work requiring thought and effort doesn’t. They think actual sacrifice is OK – for others. They think that any effort that doesn’t bring them the most wealth for the least effort on their part is for suckers.
The kicker – they think trump is the ultimate conservative. He hates the same people they do, and he says this out loud. He has money that he didn’t earn. He lies easier than he breathes. His idea of style is brash, ornate crap, same as theirs. His concept of law is that it doesn’t apply to him. They like him because he’s one of them.
Baud
Updated original comment.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
The PRM held dominion over Mexican politics for over 70 years. Historians have called this period, “the perfect dictatorship”. People absolutely can be held back for a very long time, especially when you have control of the media
Maybe I’m comparing apples to oranges, I don’t know
SFAW
@Baud:
They don’t need one. If they make a decision that the Traitor-in-Chief wants implemented, he’d use his military to enforce. And while there may be service members who would be against that, I’m guessing there ain’t enough of them.
I guess I’d like to see an end to their rule before I die, and I would bet a beer that they could hold on that long, if the SC decides to go full-on wingnut/Trumpist/Stalinist.
Baud
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
I think it’s apples and oranges.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
Some of them may not care about the Court’s credibility, but ideology and their Party
Baud
@SFAW: The court is going to want its decisions enforced by presidents who aren’t Donald Trump. That’ll be their concern.
The Moar You Know
@Kay: insecure people don’t ask for raises, stay in jobs they hate because it’s all they’ve got left, and take whatever marginal health care they’re offered because it’s better than having none at all.
From the GOP standpoint this lack of security and stability in the lives of working Americans is nothing but gravy.
Baud
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
You’d need five of the six GOP justices (assuming Trump’s pick is on) to not care. I doubt you’ll have more than three.
SFAW
@MattF:
He, Rick Wilson, George Conway, and the rest of the Rethug-enablers-turned-Never-Trumpers can get together for a circle jerk at some point. I’m happy to pretend that they’re the “voice of reason” for now, but after Biden gets elected, they can FOAD.
Nicole
@mad citizen: Wikipedia’s entry on life expectancy is decent reading- interesting tidbit:
“Life expectancy increases with age as the individual survives the higher mortality rates associated with childhood. For instance, the table above listed the life expectancy at birth among 13th-century English nobles at 30. Having survived until the age of 21, a male member of the English aristocracy in this period could expect to live:[32]
Figure the average middle-class American lives considerably better than a Middle Ages aristocrat, and yet we’ve only added what, about ten years onto average expected lifespan since the 1500s.
gvg
@SFAW: I don’t think Justices are exempt from ordinary laws like tax fraud or bribe taking and Kavanaugh always struck me as fishy. He should have been vetted properly and after Biden is elected (hopefully) someone should look him over. there may or may not be something there.
RaflW
This is also important context. McConnell is doing this because the GOP is absolutely toast in November. (Yeah, some people are saying the 6-3 Scotus will destroy America. Maybe. Who can know. But the nation functions at the consent of the governed. Roberts is a hack, but he’s not a fool.)
SFAW
@Baud:
You have a higher opinion of human nature than I do, I guess.
Matt McIrvin
@Emerald: When talking about “invalidating vote-by-mail” you have to be specific about mechanisms. In most states it’s not going to be possible to throw out mail ballots that have already been counted. When determined to be genuine, the ballot comes out of the envelope and goes in with the other ballots–no way of identifying it after that. You have to stop it from being counted before the fact.
Now, in many swing states, they’re going to start processing mail ballots before Election Day–it’s already started, in some places. So the only way to invalidating the mail ballots will be to stop the count well before Election Day (which they haven’t done yet) or to declare the whole election void, including the Election Day votes, which is a much bigger ask.
Exceptions are WI, MI, PA and IA. There, they start counting them on Election Day. Of those, the first three are where Biden is currently ahead. There’s some possibility that Trump’s people could see they’re ahead in the Election Day numbers in these states and try to stop the count somehow. Fortunately Biden is already lawyering up–he clearly sees it coming.
But there’s also an outside possibility that Biden gets to 270 without those states. If he actually wins Florida and Arizona it becomes more probable than not.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@SFAW:
I have to disagree with you here. The top military brass generally does not like Trump. And polls of the armed forces have shown him to be fairly unpopular. Like a majority don’t approve of him. I don’t think the Army would like to be used that way. I’m more worried about SCOTUS schenigans than the military. If anything, they would be on our side
RaflW
@gvg: Right. That two day sham FBI investigation was a cover up. Finding out who paid off his suspect debts is crucial.
Baud
@SFAW: No, I just assess the justices self-interest differently from you.
I’d prefer to not have to bet the country on that, of course, but I don’t see them invalidating all mail-in ballots.
Betty Cracker
@RaflW: Yeah, no doubt, but fuck those assholes. My point is elections here are often decided by a percentage point, so throwing 2 million people off their health insurance in the middle of a pandemic right before the election doesn’t strike me as a genius strategic move.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: great opportunity for some of Bloomberg’s money to be spent on ads
Baud
@Betty Cracker: The case won’t be heard until after the election and the decision several months after that.
Ksmiami
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): Civil War
Felanius Kootea
@RaflW: Democrats need to finally understand that the only principle the GOP believes in is getting and keeping power. When you’re dealing with people like that, the only thing to do is give them a beat down – get the majority of the votes, put your people in the house and senate, eliminate the filibuster, expand the courts (there are many legitimate reasons to), enact far-reaching progressive legislation, explain to the people what you’re doing for them and how they benefit, and ignore the GOP whining the way they ignored yours when they had the power.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I forgot about that part. Still a good opportunity to turn these hearings into a discussion of health care
Zzyzx
@Baud: I’m also down the “this might be it” rabbit hole and I can’t get out from it.
The ACA lawsuit (incredibly stupid troll suit that keeps winning) is what is terrifying me along with the fact that Trump literally telegraphed this move at rallies this week. If he files some POS lawsuit written in crayon, what 5 SC justices can you count on to vote no?
i’m not yet down the anarchist cities is there to mean that our votes can’t be counted because the government is corrupt paranoia yet, but give Trump a week.
Disclaimer: I’m a Jew raised a generation after the Holocaust so I’ll always be paranoid. Also I’m on day 13 of a headache/sore throat (not Covid it turns out) so who knows how rational I’m being?
taumaturgo
@Kay: Those of the liberal wing of the party have been tired of losing battles to the corporate incrementalists for a long time. Their do little or nothing, seeking consensus when there is none and surrendering before the battles, and preserving the corrupt status quo is leading to defeats after defeats. People are craving for real change. The important question is, have the centrist, conservative voters had enough?
RaflW
@SFAW: This. I’m sure Wilson’s long con is that he’ll claim the Lincoln Project was critical to Biden’s win, so Dems owe never-Trumpers a buncha shit (cabinet posts, etc).
I hope Kamala laughs in his face.
Wilson’s a ratfucker. He attacked Max Cleland, a sitting senator and disabled vet. Wilson has ties to Cheney, so seriously, fuck him.
Matt McIrvin
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): If the Supreme Court declares that Trump is the legitimate President, the army will generally obey his orders, because they’ve got drilled into them that constitutionally sanctioned civilian command is what they obey, and the Court is the accepted arbiter of that.
They also have an obligation to disobey illegal orders, but the bar there is very high. It’s going to have to be so blatant that the brass in question would happily submit to being court-martialed for insubordination.
Trump can’t just stay in office by trying to order the military around after Biden’s inauguration. But if the courts are behind him, it’s another story.
Chris Johnson
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): You’re forgetting that too many Republicans want to believe it’s the DEMOCRATS who instill royalist patronage machines of corruption and scorn the fundamental principles of our country.
It’s kind of like the Republicans screaming ‘socialist’ at like Bill Clinton, and then being completely unprepared when an actual Left pops up.
Being totally unprincipled toadies to a would-be King that doesn’t respect them in the least is NOT what all of the Republicans signed up for. They grow up with certain principles instilled in them, and spend lifetimes glossing over the many ways that their party really doesn’t respect those principles.
Now, a New York Yankee fake billionaire seizes control of their party, and he can’t begin to pretend that any of that stuff matters. He is openly contemptuous of all of it. We can see that many of them appear to go along (also: he works with Putin, some of the bigger names are being blackmailed and pressured to side with him and the threats ain’t made up).
We don’t see (except with apostates like the Lincoln Project, who ARE STILL Republicans, but truly pissed) what it looks like for Republicans to break with their party and not go along, because unlike Democrats they do not embrace the herding-cats, circular-firing-squad model of party membership. So, Republicans do not show you when they’re going to break ranks, or go against their leadership. Not until they actually do, as with the Lincoln folks.
And I’m watching their latest podcast. The Lincoln Project is full of glee about something, and it has to do with further attacks on Lindsey Graham, unlikely alliances they are making that they’re not talking about right now, and they are behaving like Trump seizing a SC seat is walking into a very big trap. I think there’s a part of them that is happy about having a right-wing radical court: I don’t see ’em calling for court packing. But they seem very sure that Trump is opening up pandora’s box here.
Also: you know, some of the gun nuts out there are also the kind of people who would break with Trump if he suspended elections and basically made himself King. Trump is escalating in a direction that’s really dangerous for the Trumpists. Quite a bit of his support depends on him being able to feign being a real Republican, and he’s really REALLY not.
Ruckus
@blacque_jacques:
The court has grown slightly over the last 200 yrs in response to the work load. But the court, like the house, has not grown in step with the population and that is a bad thing in a democracy because it values the wealthy over the rest of us, those who have the money to create a life better for them than the rest of us. I’m not meaning bigger houses, more expensive cars, I’m talking opportunity.
School is an example. Conservatives want schools completely paid for by the users, while the entire country, benefits from a better educated population. But requiring that restricts people from the benefits of an education and is counter to democracy.
The courts and the house is part of the system of democracy that we have and restricting their growth is counter to the original design of the founders – they restricted the senate to 2 reps per state, but not the house or the court size. They expected those to grow, to represent the needs of the country and that is correct, as the country grows, and it has, so do the needs of the governing, while no state should have more representation than any other. And so, geographically small states, and/or states with small populations have the same number of reps for the state itself, while the humans in those and all the states should as well and currently don’t.
The Moar You Know
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): PRI was the name of the party, for starters, and you might want to actually read some history to find out why they held power for so long. It is not the facile “control of the media” explanation you’ve tossed out here for some reason.
Emerald
Aha! There now! That gets me off the ledge! Not saying they won’t come up with some other lame excuse because they’ll have ALL the power, but yeah, it won’t be that straightforward.
And plus, I do wonder if even this shiny new SCOTUS will want to risk massive civil unrest, which is what would happen if, as I strongly suspect, we’re already building a blue tsunami.
OK. I feel better now! Back to the fun of winning!
Matt McIrvin
@Zzyzx: Like I keep saying: the only reason “card says Moops” troll suits like that even work is that Congress can’t pass laws at all. If we can break that impasse, we can fix these things. Just patch the two sentences of awkward verbiage that the argument hangs on.
MattF
@RaflW: I’m pretty sure the Lincoln Project is sending out feelers to both the left and the right. And they want K Street style influence, not managerial cabinet posts.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Agreed.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Matt McIrvin:
It’s obvious to anybody why they’re trying to ram through a Justice before the election and not simply wait for the lame duck period to confirm one. Obvious even to the brass of the Armed Forces. They’re political creatures as much as any civilian politician
They would have to ask themselves if they’re willing to serve a man and a party that has basically subverted the Constitution and stolen an election through corrupt means, all the while risking severe and massive social unrest
zzyzx
@Chris Johnson:
But would they care if he just said that those liberal city dwellers who don’t have cops and have been controlling your state don’t get to vote until they establish order, but your rural votes will of course be counted?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Yes, this is the truly petty part of it. Let’s trash the insurance system once it’s stabilized for the yucks. This isn’t governance, it’s trolling.
Chris Johnson
What did I just tell you folks?
Of course that’s his position. George Will is a real Republican. Donald Trump is not, is absolutely not.
I told you, a significant number of Republicans need Trump to maintain the fiction that he is not the dictator of a banana republic, or the straw boss of Vladimir Putin. And Trump cannot maintain that fiction. He is what he is. And he’s a fucking traitor, and shows it, along with his lackeys like Barr.
Republicans breaking ranks, matters. Pay attention to what they’re saying when they do. It’s not personality issues, and it’s not them becoming liberals. Right now, the controlling authority in the country is RINO, and they are prepared to try and make the court RINO: one that will back the destruction of what America means.
OF COURSE Republicans exist that are crying foul. Also, they have guns.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: something I as a non-lawyer have been wondering about. I know Gorsuch has voted to kill O’Care before, but he also strikes me as being like Roberts more of a politician than an ideologue. Is there some kind of legal, or quasi-legal, theory he can use to back away from the cliff’s edge in the name of the ‘legitimacy of the court’ that Roberts has people say he’s concerned about? that overturning Obamacare would be too disruptive to the social fabric?
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@The Moar You Know:
The PRI was known as the PRM (Party of the Mexican Revolution) until 1946. Thereafter it was PRI.
From Wiki:
Josie
I think we are assuming here that all the conservative judges vote in lock step. That has not been the case so far. We may lose on some issues and not on others. We should not be running around with our hair on fire about future judicial decisions that we have no way of knowing about at this point. We should concentrate on sending money to and working for candidates of our choice and voting (in person as much as is possible).
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Emerald:
Truth be told, that explanation makes me feel better too
RaflW
The other thing the zealots forget:
Overturn Roe?
NO- 69% / YES- 29
(via kff.org)
taumaturgo
@The Moar You Know: The keyword he was looking for is corruption, big-time corruption. Today, they have an administration that is constantly after the corruption perpetrated by past neoliberals presidents that carved and sold the country’s riches to the highest bidders at the expense of the people. The press, as an allied and protector of the corrupt, played a big role because they sold their principles and betrayed the country for money.
Jinchi
Democrats should really start pointing out that “packing the courts” is exactly what McConnell has been doing for the last 6 years.
Ruckus
@Chris Johnson:
Actually I think trump is a today’s republican. I’ll fully agree that he has only one principle and that’s himself above all else but really that is a current day republican principle. In the founders days a conservative was one who didn’t want to change the status quo of life but did want to change who made that, while a liberal wanted to change the concept of governing. Today a liberal wants to make the government more accountable, responsible and run representatively by all the individuals in the population, while conservatives want to change the form of government back to a monarchy, with the royal family being one of them.
Jinchi
You’ve seen the people in the that Trump has nominated lately, haven’t you?
Kathleen
@neldob: This. We grass roots Dems dropped the ball on this.
Ruckus
@hitless:
It does two things for conservatives. It makes, in their world view, fewer people who want something for less and aren’t willing to suffer for them. And it makes for a more docile group, willing to work for less so more profit.
After all the point of conservatism is profit, IE money, specifically them having more/all of it.
Kathleen
@Kay: I’ve felt this way about Rethuglicans since Bush’s administration. They really want us all to suffer miserable deaths
Enhanced Voting Techniques
That’s the shoe I’ve been waiting to drop; when does Trump conspiracy theory base realize Trump by definition is The Man. They’ve been twisting themselves into pretzels trying to deny Trump is the president.
Kathleen
@Nicole: It’s also lethal for Black people. We’ve said it here before. Cruelty is the point.
Hoodie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Doubtful. Gorsuch actually is an ideologue, even though he may not be as partisan as the other right wing judges. He’s hard to predict some times because he can be an extreme originalist/textualist. Scalia tended to be that way early in his career, but then generally turned into FoxNews Grandpa. You might be able to get Gorsuch to rule your way if you’re talking about, for example, a clearly worded statute. I doubt he’d be much of a help on the ACA ruling.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Hoodie: thanks
I would think Thomas and Kavanaugh are licking their chops to get at the ACA, and Alito always looks to me like he’s looking for witch to burn or a heretic to rack.
different-church-lady
Gotta win the fuckin’ elections first.
Chief Oshkosh
Overall this is a positive for Democrats. Adding another rightwing asshole to the USSC makes it a worse bench, but that bench needed to be entirely remade the day McTurtle decided to not even consider an Obama nominee anyway. The additional assholery on the part of the Republicans is another reminder to the DC press that the Republicans really are different from the Democrats, that false balance is no longer a believable approach to reporting. This also fires up the Democrats even more. Who knows, maybe Democratic leadership will finally learn what Machiavelli tried to teach us centuries ago: When it comes to running a country, it is good to be loved, but it is better to be feared.
Bobby Thomson
Collins never would have jumped ship unless McConnell had the votes. It’s a transparent gift to her campaign but hopefully Mainers have wised up.
I am not putting up with another four years of McConnell blocking the will of two-thirds of the country. First we have to get Democratic control of the White House and Senate. Then we need to make it very painful for elected Democrats to continue to reach out to people who literally want to murder them.
catclub
the first year you could get coverage was 2014
Soprano2
Well, everyone is also assuming that Thomas and Alito will live forever. Don’t forget, Scalia just suddenly dropped dead. Not saying that’s going to happen, but it’s always a possibility. It’s like saying “permanent tax cut” – nothing that can be changed in the law is actually permanent. If Biden gets elected, there are 4 years where anything could happen. For some reason Republicans are assuming that they will have a conservative majority on the court for a whole generation. There is no guarantee of that.
I was reminded on Twitter this morning that the Republicans actually tried to reduce the size of one of the Circuit Courts when Obama was president – I think it was the one Merrick Garland sits on. That didn’t go anywhere, but they tried to say that we didn’t need those empty seats anyway and could just eliminate them. I think that was before Reid eliminated the filibuster for judges. It pisses me off when people are critical of him for doing that, because Republicans would have done it the moment Trump became president anyway.
Miss Bianca
@James E Powell:
@RinaX:
I will never forget actually being hectored by someone – who I had always thought was flaky but not actually an idiot – that she wasn’t going to be “blackmailed” into voting for HRC because of Supreme Court considerations. Oh, and that I was “hateful” for telling a young leftier-than-thou of our mutual acquaintance that I didn’t appreciate her slagging of the Democratic Party.
KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))
@RaflW: Thank you for this quote and link! It’s just what I, and a lot of other folks I see, needed to read. We can either curl up and cry, or we can fight. We may not win, but we (or at least I) didn’t think we” win the ACA fight either. We just knew we couldn’t afford to lose, so we had to go down at least trying to win. And guess what – we won!
Granted, “winning” may look different this time. It may involve delaying the vote till after the election, or expanding the Court in January (BTW, Feinstein is opposed to ending the filibuster. Does anyone else like the idea of making her an ambassador somewhere so a liberal senator from CA can be appointed?). Maybe we just make good organizing connections this time. But if we just give up, we gain nothing.
So yeah, read the thread, and let it fire you up to fight. There’s more to do.
Geminid
@Miss Bianca: I saw in this morning’s Politico Playbook that the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee has purchased $631,000 in advertising for the Colarado 3rd District, split between Grand Junction and Colorado Springs broadcast, and district satellite. The report said Democrat Diane Mitsch Bush has a narrow lead in more than one poll.
Jinchi
He’s Their Man.
As long as he’s kicking liberals, poor people and immigrants, they’re fine with that.
J R in WV
@gene108:
Oh, really?!!?!!! Oklahome, Little Timmy McVey, wasn’t that his name? nearly 200 dead, including the day care center full of little kids.
Atlanta, GA Olympic bombing, plus other bombs at health care clinics. I forget his name on purpose!
Unibomber, one at a time, scientists mostly, some dead, some maimed, Ted Kazinsky, right?
Sniper at the Republican House BBall practice meeting, Scalise in the hospital for months.
If I spend more time concentrating on these murders I could think of more, but I think this is enough to show that your proposal that “People have not reacted violently to political decisions in this country in a very, very long time.” is very, very incorrect!!!
Fair Economist
@MattF: Knowledgeable conservatives know that life under fascist rule is horrible for everybody. George Will still hates liberalism with the heat of a 1000 suns, but he knows fascism under Trump is worse, even for him, and is acting accordingly.
I am boggled no Republican Senator gets this, aside from maybe Murkowski.
J R in WV
@Matt McIrvin:
All true as far as the super-majority for impeachment conviction goes!! But if we convince a couple honest patriotic Republican Senat… wait, I’ll go back out now…!
Ruckus
@KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager)):
Back a few years I was unemployed – recession, republican caused of course – and I thought I should run for CA senate against Feinstein, I’m not doing anything, she doesn’t need nor seem to appreciate the job and I’m only a few (hundred) miles left of her. Thing is she had/sort of has momentum/is liberal – ish/a successful woman in politics. My chances were about the same as all the rest of the nobodies running against her. Now it’s going on 2 terms later, I feel her age, 87, is an issue and I’d like some fresh blood. It’s not like we don’t have at least someone who might be a decent senator, out of 40 million people.
On the point of the filibuster, it has it’s place and rational but all the teeth have been take out with it not being an actual filibuster. So as someone said the other day it should be an actual filibuster or it should go. I’d say go, it’s an antique premise and all it really ever did was a delaying tactic, or worse, a way to stop actual democracy.
Ruckus
@Fair Economist:
Fascist rule for a republican senator who doesn’t really care about their subjects probably would’t be any worse off than they are now and would still have a decent paying job. So I can see why they would rather go along rather than have to try to actually earn a living. Sure they might be some of the first to find out what a beheading feels like when the entire fascist government is overthrown but still, from their current prospective…..
Just One More Canuck
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): As an aside, the new leader of the Conservatives up here has Covid, as does the leader of the Bloq Quebecois
Fair Economist
@Ruckus: The thing about fascist regimes is that they avidly turn on their own supporters. Nobody is safe, not even top political leadership.
J R in WV
@Chris Johnson:
Of course, when someone uses a gun in a political manner, they become a Democrat just before the trigger releases the hammer onto the primer of the cartridge. Then we need to round up ALL the demoncrats.
Miss Bianca
@Geminid: Woot!! Thanks for the update – that’s stupendous news!
The Utter Dregs
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Every time I see Cotton I hear “Foul Owl On the Prowl” playing from the jukebox.
Miss Bianca
@Fair Economist:
Republican Senators are part of the power structure in a way that George Will, however influential his opinions might be, is not. I don’t think *they* see fascism under Trump as being worse for them than liberal democracy under, say, Democrats. Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven, nicht wahr?
bluefoot
@Zzyzx: I don’t think you’re being irrational. I mean, when Trump was elected we all thought things would get bad, but did we think it would get this bad? That 200,000 Americans could die from a pandemic and the executive branch would be blatantly lying and using it to make money and still have a decent chance of being re-elected? Did we think there would be families ripped apart at our borders and children put in cages with no recourse and no due process? Did we think there would be literal neo-Nazis marching in the streets, and would subsequently be praised and encouraged by the president and law enforcement?
This is not to say we give up or stop fighting. Things suck right now, but they have been worse, and they got better because people fought for rights and justice. I’m willing to take the consequences of fighting, even if it means I catch COVID while being a poll worker or get run over by a white supremacist while protesting or whatever.
Hell, even the simple act of being kind to each other is a way to fight against all this madness. We keep doing it. We have to keep doing it.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
They need to read history more, those closests to Caesar have the most to fear.
JPL
@Jinchi: This!
Ruckus
@Fair Economist:
And how is that different from today’s republican party, especially given our current president? Which leads to the question, where does the republican party go from here? Their direction is destruction of anything resembling democracy, what’s left for them?
My point is that unless they go along they really aren’t safe now, maybe not in the strictest sense of the word but still.
randy khan
@RaflW:
The rest definitely is meaningful, but Trump mostly goes places where he thinks he will get a great reception. There was literally no campaign reason to have the Tulsa rally.
Barry
@Chris Johnson: “Also: you know, some of the gun nuts out there are also the kind of people who would break with Trump if he suspended elections and basically made himself King. Trump is escalating in a direction that’s really dangerous for the Trumpists. Quite a bit of his support depends on him being able to feign being a real Republican, and he’s really REALLY not.”
For all practical purposes, the gun nuts *want* Trump to rule as a Maximum Leader.
brantl
You know, when Mittens was trying to swallow a bowling ball, and saying that witnesses should be called at the impeachment, I felt a little respect for him, and a little sympathy. Well, now he’s swallowed, and he’s decided he likes swallowing, though I’m sure Stump still won’t give him the time of day, so he should get up off his knees, and take the knee-pads off.
SFAW
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
So? It’s not as if they’d refuse him. As Dick Winters said in “Band of Brothers”: “You salute the rank, not the man.”
Or am I mis-remembering how much Mattis and McMaster and the other military and ex-military stood up to him? [Yes, I realize there’s a significant difference between being active and ex-. I also understand about refusing illegal orders, etc.]
dww44
@Miss Bianca: This.