Now who can argue with that?
Open thread!
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.
Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?
I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.
You passed on an opportunity to be offended? What are you even doing here?
But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.
The willow is too close to the house.
Our messy unity will be our strength.
Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.
One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.
Accountability, motherfuckers.
This is dead girl, live boy, a goat, two wetsuits and a dildo territory. oh, and pink furry handcuffs.
Fear or fury? The choice is ours.
The line between political reporting and fan fiction continues to blur.
Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.
T R E 4 5 O N
Lick the third rail, it tastes like chocolate!
… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact
Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.
Jesus watching the most hateful people claiming to be his followers
Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”
We are aware of all internet traditions.
Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?
When I was faster i was always behind.
if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.
cain
This turned into an episode of Jerry Springer – the noise was about the same.
EmanG
First!
Baud
Good clip.
cain
@EmanG – nope!! :)
EmanG
@cain dammit you beat me out of the first time ever!
EmanG
@cain well played sir, well played.
BlueDWarrior
This was a exercise in Rhetorical Violence.
What Trump wanted to do, even if he can’t physically do it, was take a lead pipe to Biden’s head, and then point the bloody pipe and scream “You’re next if you don’t get on your knees right now!”
This is the politics the Republican party wants, what it craves, it craves obliteration of the normal and the establishment of the Unquestioned Strongman that can brutalize anyone they declare an out-group person or people.
They want this, they NEED this, because they can feel the culture and the zeitgeist turning against them for good. So instead of adapting, they will retreat into their own fantasy land and try to drag us all kicking and screaming into the Super-Violent-Wackoland with them.
Juju
The big question from this debate is, looking at the current president’s behavior during the debate and also while in office, do you really want four more years of this ?
HumboldtBlue
The Twitter reaction is a fun read.
cain
@EmanG: :) I accomplished something today :D
FlyingToaster
I “watched” it on twitter (and was sending tweetlinks in text to my best friend).
I just want to note (again) that Jim Cantore would have been a better moderator. And he’s a meteorologist. Who dances to Thundersnow.
Rina99
That’s about the craziest I’ve seen Trump. Worse than his behavior against Hillary, minus the stalking. It’s hard to prepare against crazy. Biden wasn’t perfect, but he did about as well as anyone could.
catclub
If Biden had a clear statement of: “We need a federal system of testing, contact tracing, and support for frontline workers,” I did not hear it. Nor of emphasizing that is what Trump never came up with.
sdhays
Did Wallace even bring up Dump being broke and/or a fraud?
dmsilev
Next debate, the moderator will be equipped with a trank gun and a taser.
BlueDWarrior
@Rina99: There is no preparing against a crazed abuser. You figure out how to survive with minimal injury to yourself, that’s it.
TaMara (HFG)
Take away: your choice, a calm, reasoned president, or an abusive dictator. Chose wisely.
L85NJGT
The polling aggregators will be Biden +10 by the end of the week.
catclub
I listened. Biden needs to make the point that trump is a broken record on his hobbyhorse topics.
Baud
@sdhays: He brought up the taxes. Trump lied about it.
TS (the original)
Open thread – different topic
Helen Reddy Just died
Leto
@Rina99: Joy Reid made that point just now. He was totally out of control, just unable to control his emotions. Just another fucking body blow to America in the world’s eyes. Another destroyed democratic institution.
catclub
@sdhays: I started late, but heard nothing about who Trump owes money to.
sanjeevs
@sdhays: No and the Russian election interference was ignored and that most of his campaign is now in prison, awaiting prison or enjoying their pardon
Kay
The Trumpsters are all in a tizzy and blaming Wallace.
Baud
This is the frustrating part — waiting to see if the normies see things the way we do.
Leto
@catclub: he didn’t, but it was also a chaotic shitshow so…
Jeffro
@Juju: Amen. The MSNBC crew is talking about “abuser” behavior – totally spot-on. Hint hint, Biden & Co.
Other that that, my only free* advice for the Blue Team is to insist that the rest of the debates include having the moderator cut the mic of one candidate while the other is speaking, period. Not when they start interrupting – just flat-out cut it until the speaking candidate’s time is over.
scott (the other one)
The one bit of solace I take away from tonight’s shitshow is this: for the rest of his life, Chris Wallace is going to know how badly he blew this; he got utterly rolled by Trump.
You know that embarrassing thing you said that one time at that party, or in class, or in a business meeting? That will still suddenly just pop up at you out of absolutely nowhere, decades later, and cause you to cringe, or even say, involuntarily, “oh my god!” out loud?
That’s what this debate is going to be for Chris Wallace for the rest of his life. And it should be.
Leto
@Baud: Might possibly depend on how their local news frames it. But agree, it’s frustrating.
SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!
Soprano2
@catclub: He might have mentioned it, who could tell in that mess? I’m sure he has one.
If I were Biden’s people, I would insist that the moderator mute the mic of the person who isn’t talking at the next debate due to Trump’s inability to follow the rules he agreed to.
Kay
Very upset.
Jeffro
@Rina99: He did throw an awful lot of FoxBubble shit out there that will confuse normal human beings.
And the constant talking-over…I’m guessing that cost him an ADDITIONAL three points in support from women voters. Maybe more. What a jackass
PJ
@catclub: Biden pointed out multiple times that Trump never had any plan to deal with Covid and still doesn’t.
sdhays
@L85NJGT: With Dump becoming increasingly unhinged and his campaign essentially broke in October, and with 18+ leads on his tax/fraud schemes that the FTFNYT just unleashed, I kind of expect a drumbeat of bad news throughout October, and while I don’t expect a huge swing in the polls right away, I really do think we could see quite an erosion by the end of October.
In 2016, the Dump campaign was on the edge of a cliff when the Access Hollywood tape came out. All it would have taken was a little push. But the Republican leadership rallied around the rapist. And somehow Dump was able to appear less out of control and Republicans “came home” and made it close enough for Comey to fuck things up.
I don’t think October 2020 is going to work out the same way.
Baud
@Kay:
When he saw his career and reputation circling the drain because he couldn’t handle Trump.
dmsilev
I imagine Trump’s current fans liked what they saw, but was this really going to sway any of the few remaining undecided voters in let’s say Wisconsin? On the other hand, the Biden Has Dementia attack has just gotten blown to shreds. Trump tried to attack Biden for being ‘not smart’ because he went to a state school, and I wish them luck pushing that line of attack…
cain
I’m a bit worried about Portland with the President telling the proud boys “Stand back and stand by” they basically are taking it as a call to arms. These assholes are going to come down hard.
The portland police is also a bunch of lunatics. It looks like we are in for some rough weather.
TaMara (HFG)
@catclub: You seem to be under the impression that Biden could actually get a word past the insane rantings of a madman in an unmoderated shitstorm.
The fact Biden kept at the orange disease enough to rattle him while Wallace sat and spun on his thumb, and then laughed at the continued temper tantrums, made Biden the clear winner.
Jeffro
@scott (the other one): “Well…what was I supposed to do? I tried – tried hard, mind you – to get the president* to follow the rules his own campaign team agreed to!”
Gee Chris, I guess you could have done any of the dozen things a 1st-year elementary school teacher would know how to do in order to get her class back under control. But you be you, you battle-tested and battle-scarred Beltway guy!
Cheryl Rofer
Sorry I couldn’t be here. Things were so crazy I could only deal with one medium.
Adam L Silverman
@cain: No one got hit with a chair. No one had their girlfriend attack their wife. No one had to take a paternity test.
Fact check: False.
trnc
I disagree. I think he did exactly what he planned to do – talk over Biden as a bullshit “show of force.” I think it will probably not come off as well to undecided voters as he thinks it would, but the bull in a china shop vibe is 100% on brand for him.
Amir Khalid
@TS (the original):
Listening to I am Woman right now. Timeless and true.
Jeffro
@Soprano2: totally agree. It should be a non-starter: mute the non-speaking candidate’s mic while the other candidate is speaking, or we’re out of here. Oh and by the way we’re about 8 points ahead.
lafcolleen
What started out as a discussion about quarentine haircuts combined with “likely voters” commentary on the dumpster fire that was Trump’s debate performance brings you this new, and I hope evocative, campaign slogan:
“TRUMP 2020: A different disaster is all you can hope for.”
Adam L Silverman
@Juju: I didn’t want the first four years of it.
Baud
@dmsilev:
That seems stunningly tone deaf given who his base is. But I guess he figures they’ll stick with him through anything.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Leto:
Many other democratic countries aren’t faring well themselves. I remember reading that people in the EU couldn’t believe BoJo was real after the recent blowing up of the Brexit agreement. They laughed at him. Australia’s government was gaslighting its people last year during the horrible wildfires. Brazil elected Latin Trump, who is maybe not quite as unhinged as his northern counterpart, but has repeatedly undermined public health measures during the pandemic
Patricia Kayden
That during this debate Trump encouraged Proud Boys to interfere with the election should disqualify him.
Morzer
@Kay: That looks mighty like a concession from the Trumpkins that Biden won the debate on points.
trnc
True dat. He did refer to the primary debates where he did say that, but he should have explicitly said it. But we have 2 more debates, so he’ll probably work it in.
sdhays
@Baud: What I learned in 2000 is that “the normies” will react the way the pundits tell them to react. Immediately after the first debate, they thought Gore won (according to polls immediately after the debate), but after the pundits’ fixation on Gore being “condescending” to W for saying stupid shit, polls shifted to conform to the media’s perception.
Has 20 years really changed things?
Kay
@cain:
I am sorry the President of the United States keeps calling for attacks on your city. We’ll get rid of him and that will stop.
scott (the other one)
@Jeffro: I agree that that’s what he’s going to say when asked about it over and over.
But deep down in his heart of hearts, he’s going to know the truth.
Omnes Omnibus
@TaMara (HFG): This. Every bit of this.
Don K
@Jeffro:
That was my husband’s thought – cut the fucking mike.
Kay
@Morzer:
I think so too. They think they lost and for this group of delusionals, that’s really saying something.
Adam L Silverman
@Kay: These chucklefucks have exactly one play for everything.
Jeffro
For what it’s worth, the Post is at least getting its hot takes right:
– “country is weaker, sicker, poorer, more divided under trumpov”
– “trumpov continues his misleading attacks on mail-in voting”
– “trumpov refuses not to declare presumptive victory, while Biden urges calm”
– “trumpov doesn’t condemn white supremacists when asked to”
Lather, rinse, repeat. Get over your (naive) shock at trumpov’s behavior, national snooze media, and remind Americans who was unhinged all night long here.
Damned_at_Random
@Soprano2:
shock collars would be more entertaining
Jeffro
@scott (the other one): and thank goodness.
dmsilev
@Baud: Well, his base is white men who didn’t go to college period, which I guess makes them (in Trump’s view) even dumber than mere state school grads.
Adam L Silverman
@sdhays: He made Coney Barrett’s life much harder with his answer about expecting the Supreme Court to resolve the election.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Kay:
Not really? They probably just think the moderator was biased and Trump still won. Oh well, they’re delusional
HumboldtBlue
@dmsilev:
There ain’t gonna be another one and if Biden agrees I’ll seriously think about voting for my cat as a write-in.
bluefish
@BlueDWarrior: All the way correct. Thank you.
Baud
Wallace also sucked with a lot of his questions, although we knew that would happen going in.
Jeffro
@Don K: it seems to be a popular opinion here, there, everywhere.
Can you imagine what this debate would have been like if those rules were in force? The long awaited orange stroke-out would have happened by minute 20 at the latest.
So…let’s make sure that is in place for the next 2 debates (and the VP debate too). #cutthemic – let’s make it happen!
MomSense
@dmsilev:
Patton Oswalt said the next debate moderator should be John Wick!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@sdhays:
That’s what I’m only a little concerned about. Most people aren’t on Twitter, but a lot of media people are, and they can shape public opinion
Adam L Silverman
@dmsilev:
https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/29/no-joe-biden-did-not-say-he-attended-delaware-state-university/3574205001/
dmsilev
@sdhays: One innovation which came in I think in 2008 was rapid snap polls of debate viewers, which played a big role in shaping the immediate pundit reactions. Before that, it was all their own views plus campaign spin.
bluefish
@Adam L Silverman: That’s right.
Jeffro
@Baud: yeah from the “you’re going to like this next question, Mr. President” to the constant badgering of Biden about the cost of the Green New Deal, etc. F you, Mike. What was the cost of the trumpov tax cuts again? Oh that’s right…the pandemic response team that would have been in place in China, among other things.
trnc
I suspect some of his base orgasmed when they found out that he cheated on his taxes, and someone has probably started a gofundme to pay next year’s $750 for him.
Morzer
@HumboldtBlue: It was a horrible thing to watch, but I think this debate did Trump some damage – and a couple more debates might well open an artery in his campaign, especially with stronger moderators.
Jeffro
@Adam L Silverman: it was a good moment, strategically speaking. And boy did Donnie ever bite on that hook.
HumboldtBlue
@sdhays:
And then Comey came out with Hillary’s emails.
Sab
@cain: I had a friend years ago in Vegas whose brother was a Portland cop. He was PTSD from fear of hepatitis from drunk bites. Very different from other cops I have known in other cities.
Baud
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): The media has always been our biggest concern.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Real people make trump nervous, he knows he shouldn’t lash out, he bumbles it when tries to connect real voters, and it’s Biden’s best format
TaMara (HFG)
@HumboldtBlue: If he refuses to debate, it will become all about Biden being weak.
All he has to do is show up, insist on some stronger moderation, behave like a human being and let the orange disease continue to meltdown and then fact check him on the really important stuff (voting, racism, taxes, Covid) and he’ll win each debate.
OD barely made it through this debate, the next two should see his poll numbers continue to drop. Mostly because all the but 27% crazies who would march with him into an auditorium filled with rabies, covid-19 and anthrax.
Suzanne
Joe survived that, got a few good lines in there and a few solid points, and that is the best that can be expected. Trump was probably higher than a kite. That was the behavior of a madman. The kind of person you back away from slowly. There’s no winning. They shouldn’t have another one. He literally told white supremacists to stand by for more direction. It would be dangerous to have another debate.
Don K
@dmsilev:
Yeah, the present Trump fanpeople will love it, but as a grad of two state Us, I say, “FUCK YOU!!!” I dealt with grads of the Ivies over the years, and they’re not so bright necessarily.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Agreed.
Jeffro
@Morzer: this debate did no damage to Biden, moved no Biden voters to trumpov’s column, and quite possibly (checking for my bias here) helped confirm to at least one if not both of America’s undecided voters that the country would be better off in stable, non-abusive hands.
So…make your money talking all week, Beltway pundits. My take is, “scoreboard!”
Morzer
The Lincoln project people are discussing giving the moderators in the next debate the ability to turn off the mic and/or to taze an unruly participant.
Suzanne
@TaMara (HFG):
Now that’s a good idea.
sdhays
@Adam L Silverman: I know she’s going to be asked about it in the hearings. It should be very easy to answer, but the correct answer will really upset Dump. It’s the only question I’m really interested in hearing her answer.
guachi
Hypnotic watching the ActBlue ticker increase by several thousand dollars per second. Per. Second.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Suzanne:
The only way to “win” against that insanity is to punch the nut-job out. Or sedate them
Jeffro
@Suzanne: I’d like to see Biden ask him “what exactly did you mean by ‘stand by’, Don?”
Among many other questions.
C Stars
In case the choice wasn’t clear before, it sure is now. Unhinged and paranoid, or decent guy.
Does this move the needle? If you were a decent, semi-intelligent person who happened to grow up in a persuasively GOP culture and was waiting on tonight to see which way you wanted to vote, I don’t think you’d be able to see past the craziness on full display. I just don’t.
WV Blondie
@Jeffro: Yes! My husband was a standup comic for decades – as we watched that shitshow we kept saying “Cut his mic!”
And I sure hope the debate commission imposes that for the next one(s).
C Stars
@guachi: Yeah, my bank account is hurting today (for a good cause)
Kay
OK Baud, here’s your normies:
We won! :)
Morzer
FWIW the Lincoln project people think that this debate was bad for Trump and the GOP senators. They also wonder whether Biden should do the next two debates.
Marcopolo
I don’t think I have anything to add to discussion about the debate. So let me just say that it looks to me like so far today ActBlue has seen $40 million in political contributions $6.84 billion atm). And there is still time left in the day. And tomorrow is the last day of the fundraising quarter. Be interested to see where we wind up tomorrow night at midnight on the West Coast.
I’m getting up early to do stuff before I go and VOTE. All you all have a good evening
P.S. If they cancel the next 2 debates, Trump wins. Just put a shock collar on him and hit the button when he interrupts.
Adam L Silverman
@Morzer:
via GIPHY
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
True, and explanation @dmsilev: gave about snap polling has made me feel better about it
C Stars
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, I am definitely not in the “cancel the debates” column. This might be terrible for everyone watching but it’s probably good for Biden (and democracy)
Adam L Silverman
@sdhays: Either Klobuchar or Harris should have the clip cued up, play it, and then ask her to respond.
bluehill
Trump did what he always does which is to try to steamroll Biden and Wallace. Worked in the past because the whole nation wasn’t watching and he was sharper mentally to make it seem charmingly roguish.
Trump came off worse than an a-hole. He came off as a doddering a-hole. Reminded every service worker of the entitled ranting customer they have had to deal with and every office worker of the idiot supervisor they worked for. Don’t think that helped him.
Leto
@Suzanne: Lawrence O’Donnell said that each moderator should repeatedly press him on that in the next two. Not shocked that he wouldn’t speak out against them.
Baud
@Kay: Good. I would have accepted a tie.
Adam L Silverman
@Jeffro: My guess is that Yamiche Alcindor will either ask him tomorrow or at the debate she’s moderating.
Morzer
@Adam L Silverman: I feel we would all be better off if Biden turned to Trump, pointed a finger and whispered “Dracarys!”
mali muso
@guachi: Yes, it’s very soothing. Boom, there goes another million.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Kay:
Imagine being the 11% who must’ve been undecided or thought “nobody won”. I can almost understand that second one’s sentiment, but Biden clearly won. Trump, based on everything I’ve read, was nuts
Kattails
A campaign ad for Biden aimed at the working class people (was going to say guys but hell I do carpentry)–someone building a house, various tools around, saws, level, drill, etc, show different tasks being done, interspersed with images of Trump repeating himself over and over. Finish with “when the only tool you have is a hammer…”
HumboldtBlue
@TaMara (HFG):
I hear ya, the Beau comment was what pissed me off and I’d be surprised if Trump shows to the next debate.
Baud
To the extent there was anything interesting, it was that Trump’s strategy was to simultaneously call Biden a socialist and to drive a wedge between Biden and socialists.
trnc
I think Biden and Harris should answer the “court packing” question, but don’t accept the usual framing. Point out that since the last time the SC was expanded, congress has grown by more than 50%, and federal caseloads have increased exponentially. We absolutely need the court to be expanded to keep up.
sdhays
@TaMara (HFG): Even if Biden doesn’t gain more supporters, his poll numbers can still go up. Dump’s crazed loser stink can become a self-fulfilling prophesy, with people who were previously planning to vote Dump deciding to just sit this one out.
I don’t have TV (we only watch things online), but being off the air all month in October in critical swing states, alone, should have an effect. Dump doesn’t just need to convince people to vote for him in these debates, he needs to convince people to keep funding his
griftcampaign.If Dump’s fundraising doesn’t pick up, he lost, and is losing badly.
WaterGirl
@sdhays: Everybody gets to early vote, though. Even the people who voted for Trump and might possibly have seen this and thought, hmm maybe that wasn’t the best choice.
Adam L Silverman
@Morzer: I don’t read George RR Martin and I have never seen an episode of the TV show. So I sort of take your meaning.
Morzer
@C Stars: I think Biden should do the debates, because Trump was so utterly repulsive. Sure, the cultists will cling on, but everyone else just wants to move away from the creepy, raging meth-head at the end of the bar.
Subsole
@Jeffro: Are we sure it will help with men? I used to do hospital equipment repair, which necesitated coordination with electricians, plumbers, carpenters, IT people, telecom, contractors… all pretty male-dominated.
We generally HATED that one loudassed dipshit who kept yammering over everyone because he made it imposible to do. our. fucking. work.
Twitter might love that shit. People who actually work for their bread generally don’t have time for it.
mrmoshpotato
Yes.
Kabecoo
I’m sure that those of us in Portland will learn what “stand by” means.
and I’ve watched too many of these in the last 40 years, but I’ve never before seen one where one candidate urged folks to vote, and the other…. didn’t.
WaterGirl
@TaMara (HFG): My niece sent me this tweet during the debate:
Baud
I thought Biden did fine considering the circumstances, but he didn’t do as well as he could have. But now that he’s been through this once I’d imagine it’ll be a little easier next time since they can look at the tape and see what worked and what didn’t.
Subsole
@cain: That sucks. Stay safe.
Is there ANYthing the mayor can do??
Elizabelle
@Baud: Yeah. That was interesting.
Rina99
@Jeffro: I rarely watch Trump live, and NEVER watch Fox news. It was overwhelming, though I forced myself to watch until the end. Fucking nutjob. I thought the first 10 minutes were the roughest for Joe. However, he seemed to navigate the cuckoo waves better as the night went on and got some real hits in.
sdhays
@trnc: I’m personally all for expanding the Supreme Court, but I think until Judge “Who I Am Doesn’t Matter” is actually confirmed, they would be wise to keep the focus on the travesty that the Republicans are putting the country through right now. That’s the debate we want to have right now. Discussion about remedies should wait until after the Republicans pull the trigger.
WaterGirl
@WaterGirl: She sent me this one, also:
catclub
@Kay:
any votes for Chris wallace? he was great!
susanna
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): And said Brazilian leader’s son is proudly aligned with Steve Bannon and his “Movement.” The son I believe intoned the impression that it (ahem, he!) would be taking all of South America to new, grander heights, whatever the crackers he means.
sdhays
@WaterGirl: True, but apparently Republicans aren’t early voting in nearly the numbers Democrats are.
Marcopolo
@Adam L Silverman: Adam, this is the clip you need to put up, if no one already has:
Monty Python’s Argument sketch
Yes I came back cause I remembered this.
Subsole
@Baud: Eh, they used to call me a college-puke, and I only have an associates. It prolly won’t faze them.
Though anyone even remotely professional is prolly pretty damned steamed at it.
I sure am.
catclub
I think the parts where he was steady, reassuring and talking about the needs of ordinary families were best. trump had none of that.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
Didn’t see it, I was watching the Yankee game, but judging from twitter it looks like Dump blew himself up.
Morzer
When you’ve lost Big Chicken…
@JohnJHarwood
MoCA Ace
JFC. Wallace kept tossing softballs to Trump and he kept smearing them with shit then complaining to Chris that they smelled like shit.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Leto:
Agreed. A moron online actually claimed I “misquoted” Trump in his response to Charlottesville in 2017 when he called the neo-Nazis “very fine people”. Well, I think this puts to bed any doubts about Trump liking white supremacists
catclub
@WaterGirl: Biden saying “vote for me and I won’t be sticking my head in front of every microphone and spouting lies eight days a week like this
guy” would be a winner argument.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
In which HRC weighs in….
also, I don’t know how this person is determining this, I looked at ActBlue’s main page and don’t see this kind of breakdown, but I’ll take it as good news
Nelle
I want a teacher to moderate the next debate. Probably one used to the weird behavior of lower elementary school naughty boys.
Reminds me of teaching a university freshman English class. The back row was filled with big guys, all on the football team. They were having a lovely time in the first week or two of the semester, jabbering to each other, making a general uproar. I just stared them all down. The class got very quiet. I still didn’t speak. I’m sure to the rest of the class, the silence lasted an ungodly amount of time. Finally, they mumbled apologies and that was it for the semester. Wouldn’t work with 45, though. He needs a first-grade teacher.
Morzer
https://twitter.com/TimAlberta/status/1311142872008323074
Subsole
@trnc: Yep. Then they’ll turn around and bitch because their taxes are too durn high.
Like, yeah…whose asses did you THINK they were gonna take the shortfall out of, dipshit??
jc
I think the barrage by Trump shows his weakness. He *had* to go on offense and do his total gish-gallop bamboozler-in-chief act, because he’s extremely vulnerable on so many issues. He attacks so that he won’t be attacked. And when he’s pinned, he aggressively changes the subject. Just roll over everyone, flood the zone with bullshit. Trump was doing the verbal equivalent of stalking the stage.
HumboldtBlue
From David Simon:
Kay
@Kabecoo:
I agree and people keep describing it like it’s this brilliant strategy “he will make you so sad and despondent you won’t vote!” but it’s just bullshit. Trump needs votes. At the end of this he has to produce them. No candidate has ever told people not to vote before because it’s a dumb thing to do.
sdhays
@catclub: He has made that point before. “Donald Trump thinks everything is about him. I think everything is about you.” I wonder if that will be his primary theme in the final days of the race.
Captain C
@Adam L Silverman: Isn’t the paternity test more of a Maury thing?
sdhays
@Morzer: LOL!
Subsole
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): “Oops, Mr President, dart in your neck!!”
Morzer
https://twitter.com/TimAlberta/status/1311140481561227267
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Kay:
I definitely think that’s the GOP strategy. If the legitimacy of the voting process is called into question, they think it will demoralize people. I think, given the stakes, it will do the opposite
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Did an “ActBlue” search on twitter
also, their site is apparently crashing
Morzer
https://twitter.com/TimAlberta/status/1311144160292995072
Kelly
Sheriff Reese of Multnomah County the county Portland, OR is in does not support Trump
https://twitter.com/SheriffReese/status/1311125507757416449
mali muso
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: If you go to their main landing page, you can see a counter on the right hand corner that ticks upward as donations come in. I was watching it between refreshing BJ open threads tonight and it was running just under $100k per minute earlier and definitely even faster now.
Baud
@Morzer: Ruthie is all right.
West of the Rockies
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
The “undecideds” are attention-hounds. They almost always “lean Republican, and some claim to have voted for Obama. They are too embarrassed to admit they want to huff Trump’s farts and luvvvvv the attention they’re getting.
SiubhanDuinne
@TS (the original):
Ah shit. No.
Goddamittohellfucking2020
Mallard Filmore
@scott (the other one):
I interpret this to mean you do not like Chris Wallace. Going beyond that, any moderator that assumed Trump is a normal person would be steamrolled. Trump cannot help himself nor can he stop on command. Without a mic kill switch he is helpless before Zod, err, Trump.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Morzer:
Another important insight from that thread:
The “Joe has dementia” bullshit backfired
ETA: didn’t see you beat me to it before I posted
tokyokie
@dmsilev:
Yeah, the guy who went to a state university is an elitist and the slacker whose daddy bought him a spot at Penn and left him $400 million is a man of the people.
TS (the original)
@Amir Khalid:
Always remember when she first sang it – suits the occasion now very well.
Morzer
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I refer my honorable friend to #154
L85NJGT
@Morzer:
Well…. she ain’t wrong.
sdhays
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I just may watch that one.
Zzyzx
Apropos of nothing, I have this stuck in my head for some reason:
https://youtu.be/b-tAiOVMYFY
Leto
@Morzer: reading through those other replies and I want to choke people out:
Dude, just fucking admit you’re voting from Trumpov. JFC…
Baud
Well, I guess the initial data and hottakes are generally positive. I’ll take it.
WaterGirl
@mali muso: It appears that you only see the counter on the ActBlue page (top right) if you are on a computer or on a tablet in landscape mode.
On a tablet in portrait mode, or on a phone, the counter doesn’t seem to show up. I wasn’t able to find it anywhere on mobile.
I am an apple girl, but this was also verified by a jackal who uses android.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@West of the Rockies:
That sounds about right, based on that Luntz focus group
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@guachi: Just timed it for 60 seconds and saw $70K roll in.
@WaterGirl: I’ve been wondering about this “ticker” people were talking about, because all I was seeing was a static dollar figure on the front page, that didn’t change even on reloading. Switched to Safari, same thing.
Scrolled down to the bottom looking for mention of a ticker, saw nothing, scrolled back up.
Then all of a sudden the dollar figure started updating. Not sure what triggered it.
Kay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I just believe they’re overthinking it. This is pretty straightforward. The goal is to get votes. A double backflip plan to depress votes in suburban Philadelphia means he isn’t getting votes.
No one else tried the “get fewer votes” strategy because it’s a bad strategy.
Kent
So I’m helping my 9th grade daughter who had to watch the debate for her English class and discuss the different rhetorical tactics used by each candidate and describe examples of pathos, ethos, and logos from each candidate.
Try doing that for Trump. I dare you.
TS (the original)
The debate should have been stopped until trump’s so called supporters put their masks back on.
No masks, No debate
Edit: Better thought, cut trump’s mic until the masks were on. Biden gets all the time without interruption.
West of the Cascades
@Kelly: gonna vote me some Mike Reese in November (more accurately on October 13th when my ballot arrives).
Baud
I thought Biden’s response about modern suburbs was pretty nice. It’ll probably fall through the media cracks given everything else.
Baud
@Kent: bullshitos
different-church-lady
@Juju:
Given the current condition of this country’s society, I’m afraid of what the answer might be.
HumboldtBlue
@Kelly:
Yeah, that’s a popular retweet including me.
different-church-lady
@dmsilev:
…and use it on Biden, probably.
catclub
my polling questions: 1. After you saw the debate, do you think Biden has dementia?
2. what do you think is up with Trump?
debbie
I saw some clips on the local news and on Colbert just now. As real_dick nixon would say, My God. The head of Ohio’s Right To Life Coalition was interviewed and said he hoped there would be no more debates. That tells me he realizes he’s going to lose big in November.
mali muso
@WaterGirl: Yeah, I can’t see if when I’m on my iPhone but I do on my (admittedly old) iPad. For whatever reason, the mobile version of the site doesn’t have the counter.
And there goes another cool million…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@TaMara (HFG):
Never-trumper Mike Murphy said the Biden campaign can win the week by insisting on some kind of muting mechanism when the speaker is out of time. trump will never agree to it, but it will make him look worse
debbie
@catclub:
If only it fit on a bumper sticker!
TaMara (HFG)
Baud
@debbie: Damn. The crazy was obvious to the crazies.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Kent:
Good luck with that. In more normal times, that would be a fun, straightforward class activity. Just imagine what class discussion tomorrow is going to be like
BlueDWarrior
@debbie: if OH flips, Trump is done. And if there are enough white crossover votes to flip OH back, then the Republican Senate majority is in all likelihood done as well.
Boy I would love for these trends to hold, because they should lead to Biden winning with 340+ EVs and 52 (maybe 53 with some luck in AK or MT) Democratic Senators.
different-church-lady
@scott (the other one):
One time? You mean one thousand times, right?
catclub
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: better yet would be a cone of silence, or isolation booth to watch Trump ranting with no sound getting out.
TS (the original)
How to hide your bad news – on debate night – Washington Post
Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron did not recommend murder charges to the grand jury considering evidence against the police officers involved in the death of Breonna Taylor, he said Tuesday amid growing criticism of his handling of the case.
Cameron recommended that the grand jury indict one officer on charges of wanton endangerment for firing bullets that entered neighboring apartments, but said the other two officers, whose bullets struck Taylor, were “justified in their acts.”
Lacuna Synechdoche
@Baud:
Baud:
Also given that he’s trying to win Pennsylvania. Penn State graduates tens of thousands of students every year. That’s a lot of state-school alumni to offend in a tipping-point state.
Steeplejack
I got home from Sighthound Hall a while ago. Called a friend to vent for a bit and am still coming down off my rage high. I think Biden won the debate, but it was such a shitshow that I’m not sure how you could even score it. I will be interested to see what the “conservative,” i.e., Trumpista, pundits have to say tomorrow.
One thing I realized is that for future debates I need to be at home, where I can watch the video, monitor multiple blogs and Twitter, drink heavily and fire off real-time comments here and elsewhere. Just sitting there and taking it tonight was excruciating. And that was with a good dinner and the wine flowing.
Morzer
@TaMara (HFG): Yup, that’s a win on points for Biden.
Kent
Someone here said that the next debate is a town hall format? Is that the case? If that is the case it will completely play to Biden’s strengths and to Trump’s weaknesses. All this talking over the question and the other person will be perceived as being disrespectful to the person asking the question. It will be a lot easier for Biden to contrast his empathy and sincerity against Trump.
Leto
@TaMara (HFG): I think about this versus 2016. Dotard did the same thing and the only take away is misogyny. He hasn’t changed. It’s the same carnival barker schtick. Will always be mad.
oldgold
CNN: Biden 60% / Trump 28%
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: With an electorate already divided about 50% Biden – 43% Trump, that translates to “nothing happened”.
sdhays
@different-church-lady: It doesn’t necessarily mean anything, but according to Wikipedia, Steve Scully (any relation to Dana Scully, I wonder??) actually was a constituent intern with Joe Biden in 1978 and worked in Ted Kennedy’s media relations office in 1979.
I’m kind of surprised that someone with that background was allowed to moderate a debate with Biden. I hope it doesn’t make him feel the need to overcompensate.
dww44
@HumboldtBlue: The post debate tv pundit consensus disagrees with you. Biden can’t walk away;he has to debate. One of them did say that his team should push hard with the debate overlords to agree to a mic shutoff even though the Trump team won’t agree
Subsole
@Kent: Dude was pathetic. Does that count? Because otherwise, I got nothin’…
Leto
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Idk, what kind of monster asks children to watch Trumpov in the first place? /s
catclub
@Kelly: That was Trump’s best line, that all the police groups are for him, and Biden could not name one that was for Biden.
dmsilev
Here’s some encouraging news:
Early surge of Democratic mail voting sparks worry inside GOP
Kent
They are studying animal farm and George Orwell. The question she is on right now is how did Trump or Biden use the same rhetorical methods as Major Pig in his big speech (which he blamed Man for the root of all evil).
She’s knocking it out of the park, talking about how Biden used the same tactic, talking about how Trump is the root of all evil in this country. When that really isn’t true. If Biden wins all our problems won’t actually vanish because of the 40% of the country who agrees with him.
Cheryl Rofer
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@oldgold:
It is what it is
sdhays
@BlueDWarrior: I’m absolutely not making predictions, but there is a not at all crazy path to a 9
10vote swing in the Senate, based on current polling.Rina99
@oldgold: And with that, I’m going to get some ice cream.
Kay
But Right wingers love it and so Wallace put it in there. “Election integrity”, “ballot security”, Wallace spun it so we never talk about ballot access and the right to vote, which is the Democratic policy focus.
I don’t know why non-Republicans have to put up with a Republican moderator. Why can’t we have an actual neutral? It’s not like he’s uniquely talented in this- he was terrible.
HumboldtBlue
@tokyokie:
You misunderstand Trump’s clumsy attempt to insult Biden there.
In this case “state school” means Delaware State University an HBCU and there is a new meme going around the right wing that Joe claimed he got his start at DSU and lied about that cuz he was a UD grad. Joe kicked off his campaign at DSU in 1972, that’s what he meant but the nutballs created nonsense from whole cloth again.
sdhays
@dww44: It didn’t work well for Dump in this debate, and it will work even worse in a town hall format.
Please proceed, Donald.
TriassicSands
@catclub:
Biden simply isn’t articulate. Expecting him to come up with concise statements that drill right to the center of a problem is unrealistic. That’s not who is or who he’s ever been.
There are certainly Democrats who are far more articulate than he is, but it is unknowable whether they would be able to maintain their composure under the onslaught of sheer insanity that Trump delivers. Biden did pretty well in that department.
I agree with Rina99, Biden did about as well as anyone could. While greater rhetorical skill would always be better in a debate, Trump’s behavior — “bullying and trolling” according to a WaPo journalist — overwhelms everything.
I’ve seen presidential debates every year since Nixon-Kennedy and Trump’s performance was the worst I’ve ever seen…by far. Even worse than with Clinton. He has absolutely no self-control or self-awareness. And his supporters probably loved it.
Tazj
@oldgold: I saw on someone’s Twitter feed(I can’t remember whose) that they (CNN) asked an undecided voter what they thought of Biden calling Trump a clown. They said that it wasn’t great but that Trump has been calling Warren Pocahontas for years and if the shoe, if the clown shoe fits well..
That gave me a little chuckle and the results of that poll will help me sleep tonight. Watching that debate gave me a headache. I wasn’t going to watch it but my 13 year old wanted to mock Trump so I decided to watch with him.
glyph2112
One, I don’t think Trump smiled once. Which reinforces the bully look.
Two, at some point Biden should simply ask “what people”, “what scientists”. Everything Trump says is non specific.
Three, I think letting him ramble on at the end was actually brilliant. That rant about ballets and voting really made him appear unhinged.
catclub
@sdhays: yeah, Trump was terrible in the townhall that was all his.
although he did mention today that terrible things happen in philadephia. isn’t that where that townhall was?
Wyatt Salamanca
I used to think that 3 presidential debates were too few, but with Trump it’s simply too many
Jennifer Epstein @jeneps
The Biden campaign says it had its best single hour of fundraising between 10 and 11 p.m. tonight, bringing in $3.8 million.
Stephen Curry @StephenCurry30
Stand back and stand by??????????? No further questions your honor!
David Frum @davidfrum
On the plus side, tonight eliminates any risk that President Biden will sign a pardon for Donald Trump
Adam Serwer @AdamSerwer
it’s probably true that all the police unions back trump, who encourages them to engage in police brutality and argues they should face no consequences for that.
McKay Coppins @mckaycoppins
A strange thing that keeps happening in this debate is that Trump keeps saying “You’re not allowed to say X because you’re a left-wing radical” and then Biden just says “X” and Trump doesn’t have a response.
Elie Honig @eliehonig
Whoever interviews President Trump next needs to to start with: “What exactly did you mean by ‘stand back and stand by’”?
James Fallows @JamesFallows
-this spectacle was a disaster;
-the blame was principally Trump’s but also Wallace’s;
-there absolutely should be no more debates this year;
-and maybe the whole performance-form has reached the end of its useful life
Larry Sabato @LarrySabato
CANCEL THE REMAINING PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES. It is impossible to have an orderly, productive exchange with Donald Trump. Stop pretending otherwise.
Kent
All Biden needed to do is talk about he meets actual policemen every single day who support him and pivot to how there are so many good police officers around the country who are actually trying to bring solutions to the problems of racism.
glyph2112
@TriassicSands: Unfortunately, I think some of that is due to having to overcome a stutter. I think if more people knew he was overcoming that, it may change they way they see his responses.
WaterGirl
@oldgold: What is that measuring?
Kay
Good Lord. That went better than I thought. They also think Trump’s a liar by 20 points but you knew that.
Mallard Filmore
@Marcopolo: And here is how Team Trump are discussing the debate with The President:
https://splunge.de/essays/2016/11/splunge/
MazeDancer
Kyle Griffin just tweeted:
sdhays
I’ve felt that that happened a long time ago.
TS (the original)
Apologies if this is a repeat – then again worth repeating
Edit: Just saw Kay had it above and Maze Dancer and everyone. Well done Joe Biden
sdhays
@Kay: Now I’m curious what Fox’s post-debate poll will show.
Kay
@MazeDancer:
That’s good! I was horrified but I can’t tell anymore. Maybe people like a screaming, lying lunatic.
oatler.
Helen Reddy Roar In Peace
Eolirin
@HumboldtBlue: This is the problem with living inside a closed information bubble. You forget that normal people don’t know what the hell you’re talking about when you start ranting about some bugbear that only makes sense to the cult.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Leto:
LOL, yeah. Won’t somebody think of the children?
ruemara
That was the most shit show of a shit show that ever fucking shit showed
@TriassicSands: Well, that’s your opinion. All yours.
With what he was dealing with, while on television, he did fantastic.
sdhays
@TS (the original): Any bets that Dump is going to blame Chris Wallace for his awful debate performance?
CaseyL
Captain C
I just ordered one of the “will you shut up” shirts from the Biden site, and kicked down a little extra, too. I am impressed at the speed at which they made those available.
Morzer
@sdhays: I am waiting for Rasmussen to drop a poll showing Trump +10 in MA and NY after the debate.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@Kay: The general public really cares about “tone” and “likeability”
Wyatt Salamanca
@bluehill:
Trump came across as someone who had just escaped from the lockdown unit of a mental hospital.
Kent
My daughter wanted to put it on. We watched 5 minutes of Hannity interviewing Don. Junior and Sara Huckabee Sanders talking about how Biden got tripped up and other bullshit about both sides were insulting. They couldn’t get over the fact that Biden insulted the president, calling him a clown and a racist and telling him to just be quiet.
Yes, it was as bad and ridiculous as you can imagine
Who knows what their poll will show. No one but old white people watch.
TS (the original)
@sdhays: Doubt it – trump thinks he did well. He is a winner, always.
SiubhanDuinne
@C Stars:
My pension check arrives tomorrow, and not a moment too soon!
Kay
@sdhays:
I always think that’s important because it’s immunization for Biden. They think Trump’s a liar so the attacks don’t stick. I think it’s one of the biggest differences between now and 2016. They know he’s a liar. It’s why I don’t worry as much as some do about Trump being able to discredit the election results. Most people don’t believe him. He pays a price for lying so much and that’s the price.
hueyplong
If Fox hasn’t posted a poll yet, you’ve been told a lot already.
catclub
The sweeping the forest floor gibberish. With obligatory ‘sir -‘
James E Powell
@guachi:
Where do you see the actblue ticker?
catclub
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I am amazed Luntz is putting those out.
dmsilev
cain
Wow, that’s crazy.. there is a large pan handler population.. then it became a lot of homeless.. which strangely showed up rather suddenly.
Danielx
@trnc:
Wait until they start a gofundme to pay off his $421 million in loans coming due in the next four years.
TS (the original)
@TriassicSands:
Biden has a speech impediment & dealing with the trump fiasco made it more obvious than usual. Compared to trump he is 100% articulate and democrats wanting perfection need to rethink who has the ability to win presidential elections and who does not. For 2020 Biden is the best on offer.
Feathers
And the Proud Boys have started proudly showing off a version of their logo encircled by the Stand Back, Stand By motto. Yeah, it was a discouragement of violence. Why do they get away with this shite?
I told a friend recently that the Proud Boys name came from their commitment to not masturbating in order to conserve their many strength. She changed the subject. Her from her later and she apologized. She said she knew I didn’t lie about that sort of thing, but she couldn’t quite believe me either.
The Proud Boys aren’t a joke at all, but they are in a way. It would be helpful if the people on the TV mention all the time what their name means.
sdhays
@Kent: I cannot fathom why anyone would want to subject themselves to Sean Hannity and whatever pile of shit suckers he talks at on his show. I hope you both have good strategies for detoxing.
But Fox’s polling outfit is actually one of the few legit things they have. I’m very curious what they find, but I’m betting that they will not report it on Dump’s favorite shows, or if they do, they will mention it once and then quickly move on to the best way to grill a McDonald’s hamberder.
WaterGirl
@James E Powell:
Copied from my comment in the next thread:
oldgold
@SheriffReese
In tonight’s presidential debate the President said the “Portland Sheriff” supports him. As the Multnomah County Sheriff I have never supported Donald Trump and will never support him.
CaseyL
@James E Powell: Go to the ActBlue home page; the ticker is in the upper right-hand corner. If you’re on a phone, you may need to have it in landscape view.
Steeplejack
Robert Costa on MSNBC says that Republican insiders fear a 1964-level defeat after Trump’s debate performance tonight. Dunno how credible he is.
Geoduck
@TS (the original): For me, Helen Reddy will always be the woman who danced with Sopwith the Camel.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
Act Blue
raised $4,700,000 million dollars in the past 60 minutes
That’s $78,333 per minute during the midnight hour (eastern).
catclub
jennifer Rubin is totally in the tank for Biden.
So THAT’S why the trumpers think wallace is a DNC plant!
HumboldtBlue
@catclub:
My Cali-homed sister caught that and ranted a bit about that nonsense again in the family thread.
sdhays
@TS (the original): But he’s also obsessed with what people are saying about him, and if the polls are saying he lost 68% to 20% and focus-groupees in Republican focus groups are calling him a crackhead, that’s going to set him off.
And he’s going to blame someone who is not named Donald Trump.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@Steeplejack: Costa is a republican. He used to be with National Review. The Post hired him because of his close contacts inside the gop.
?BillinGlendaleCA
I don’t usually quote George W. Bush, but…
“That was some weird shit.”
dmsilev
@Steeplejack: Costa has a lot of GOP sources; he used to be at National Review before moving to the Post. Because of that background, I’m wary of his straight news writing, but he is good at relaying thoughts from inside the GOP establishment.
TS (the original)
Slow on the uptake here
CNN poll trump: 28%
Who was truthful Trump: 29%
So close to the crazification factor
sdhays
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: My impression of him is that he gets actual useful scoops. He’s one of the few conservative journalists who actually seems to be an actual journalist rather than a right-wing hack.
Kent
I grew up in Oregon and went to college in Portland in the early 1980s. There were plenty of homeless vagrants in Portland back then too, especially in the old town area. You would get hit up by drunks and panhandlers all the time. There were also a ton of violent junkie types doing robberies and burglaries. Crime was way way higher and there were lots of right wing vigilante groups.
But there weren’t nearly so many homeless sleeping out in public parks and such, mainly because there were so many sleazy SRO hotels that have long since been torn down for condos and offices. And police used to viciously roust out the homeless who were sleeping in public. They can’t do that anymore by court order.
Wapiti
@Kent: Yeah, they should have asked Junior why the Trump family refused to wear masks – are they all assholes?
Eolirin
One thing though, please. Understanding that I think Biden did pretty well, though he could have given better answers on some questions especially the Supreme Court one, and I think he’s going to make a pretty good President if we also take the senate, but can we dispense with the no one could have done better stuff please?
Hillary did better. There’s plenty of good reasons why this is harder for Biden and Trump was even more unhinged during parts of this, but he literally stalked around her on stage and she did better than this.
Warren probably could have done better too. Or Harris. Let’s not lower standards to meet old white men when we know there are women who are more capable please. He did good enough. That’s all he had to do.
tokyokie
@Lacuna Synechdoche:
And the University of Michigan and the Ohio State University have among the highest enrollments in the country. That line probably doesn’t play well for supporters of the Badgers, the Golden Gophers, or the Hawkeyes, either.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@sdhays:
I’m guessing Chris Christie is getting screamed at right now
Juju
Quinerly
@scott (the other one): ?
True.
catclub
anybody who has watched the last couple of elections knows that such a landslide in the liberal direction is really out of the question now. It makes me doubt their knowledge.
Kent
Every state. University of Texas and Texas A&M systems educate hundreds of thousands every year.
cain
More of a Wheel of Time kind of guy eh?
HumboldtBlue
@oldgold:
Are you by chance familiar with the Wolverhampton Wanderers?
sdhays
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s a nice thought!
catclub
@TS (the original): i doubt CNN watchers are evenly distributed politically. and polls? even more uneven.
TS (the original)
@sdhays:
Maybe the debate teacher who had the flash cards? Chris Christie? The First Lady Melania, Barr because he didn’t dig up the dirt on Biden, Munchin because he talks to Speaker Pelosi, The First Lady Ivanka (no that’s my joke).
I think he will be throwing blame around his own people who told him he had this in the bag.
I want to see how many republicans start leaving the sinking ship.
BruceFromOhio
@Geoduck: that is the best thing I’ve seen today.
Mike in NC
Looks like I picked a bad week to give up drinking.
Another Scott
(via Popehat)
Cheers,
Scott.
randy khan
@Eolirin:
Hillary was great. You’re right – we should not forget that.
As someone who consciously chose not to watch this, but has read a lot of the commentary, my impression is that Trump was way Trumpier now than in 2016, which certainly would be a challenge to address. But unlike 2016, Trump dominating the debate isn’t good for him, so as long as Biden was competent (and he was), he was going to look great by comparison.
Feathers
Dems should pack the Supreme Court, but it should be done with an increase in all the federal courts. They haven’t been expanded in a long time, while the caseload has been expanding.
And increase the number of seats in the House, and statehood for DC (and Puerto Rico, too, if they want it).
oldgold
@HumboldtBlue:
I am familiar with the Wolves.
But, my use of oldgold is unrelated to their jerseys.
randy khan
@catclub:
The way it happens is if R turnout is suppressed. That may be what’s worrying them.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
It’s accelerating. I just clocked it at $140K in one minute.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman:
That’s debate #2.
Debate #3.
catclub
whatever cognitive issues TRUMP has, he has extremely good command of his limited, repeated set of talking points.
I would like to see a record of how much time he spent on Hunter Biden.
Quinerly
@Kay: for what it is worth, I dipped over to the FB page (no privacy on it) of an insane Trump supporter who I don’t know but run into on a friend’s page from time to time. The insane Trump supporter is in his 70’s, and brags about being a Communist in the ’60’s but “saw the light.” Anyway, he and his geriatric friends are howling that Chris Wallace should be fired from Fox. That Wallace was all in for Biden going into the debate. That Wallace was on a mission to make Trump look bad and to try to take him down.
HumboldtBlue
@oldgold:
Cool, thanks.
TS (the original)
@Eolirin:
Hillary did better, lots of people could have spoken better, but Biden’s approach worked. I could say the same about Nancy Pelosi, she is not a great orator, but what she says works and what she does works. If someone else had the ability to win the primary & then the Presidency, I would have thought that great, but Biden was the only one in the nominees who brought most of the democratic party with him.
If some polls give Biden a 30 point win in the debate – then he did great. Nothing else is relevant.
Mallard Filmore
@catclub:
Proof that Biden does not read Balloon-Juice, or he would have to have put his head on the podium so he could recover from laughing too hard.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Eolirin:
Okay. And had they both not wildly misread the political landscape and the results of first the 2016 and then the 2018 elections, we might have had a chance to find out.
catclub
@randy khan: they still will win all the small western plains states,
all the core southern states, indiana -which Obama won. plus they will not lose a huge number of senate races. Reagan won how many states? 48?
alabama, mississippi, Louisiana, tennessee, kentucky, arkansas, kansas, oklahoma. missouri,
wyoming Ndakota, S dakota, alaska, idaho are any of these even imaginable wins for biden?
cain
The mayor is a fool, he’s both the mayor and the head of the police department. So I’m not sure what his problem is. He’s very wishy washy and seems to have no political power that he can bring to bear on the portland police who are undeniably proud boy supporters – a lot of them live in Vancouver anyways. So it isn’t like they live amongst the portland community at all.
Bobby Thomson
@Kay: so in other words, just like any other debate – who “won” depends on who the viewer supported before the debate began. Those Luntz “switch” voters were always plants.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Morzer
@Steeplejack: The Lincoln Project people were talking about the floor falling out for Trump and the GOP.
JeffH
@Kay: Off by 1 percentage point…
sdhays
@catclub: Dump is broke going into the last several weeks of the campaign, and he has a lot of bad news waiting to greet him. It’s not at all crazy to see the Democrats picking up 10 seats in the Senate and taking the Texas House. It’s not even crazy, at this point, to see a path to a 60 vote majority in the Senate if Republicans stay home because Dump seems clearly headed for a big loss.
I think there’s a decent argument that Republicans fretting about 1964 are actually the Pollyanna’s. In 1968, the Republicans won back the Presidency and started to win elections nationally again. The real danger to Republicans is for a realignment like the New Deal coalition in the 30’s that shut the Republicans out of the Presidency for 20 years and Congress for half a century.
If Democrats win big in 2020, they can remove structural barriers that have been putting the thumb on the scale for Republicans for years now. And without those barriers….
Steeplejack
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch, @dmsilev:
Thanks for reminding me. I knew he has some “insider” cachet, so I take his reporting with a grain of salt. I guess if his speciality is GOP insiders that makes his comment possibly a bit more credible.
catclub
@sdhays: I will be extremely pleasantly surprised.
Omnes Omnibus
Bullshit.
PJ
The Biden shop already has a “Will You Shut Up, Man?” t-shirt for sale: https://store.joebiden.com/will-you-shut-up-man-black-t-shirt/. I’d get one, except that I’d have to see Trump when I looked in the mirror while wearing it.
sdhays
@catclub: I’m not predicting anything. All I’m saying is that Republicans should be worried.
Eolirin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The thing that Harris most misread, it seems, given the response she’s had as VP, was being a woman.
Pretty sure it’s the same for Warren.
PJ
@sdhays: It seems pretty clear from the state of Trump’s campaign that no big money players are willing to put a significant amount of cash in because they think it will be a waste. They’ve already written him off. McConnell is pushing for Coney Barrett to be confirmed now because he knows a wave is coming, and he doesn’t know how long it will be before Republicans (if they still exist as a party) make it to shore again.
Feathers
Loved Helen Reddy as a kid. People remember I Am Woman, but she also sang about abused women in a way that really stood out at the time, especially for a fairly sheltered suburban girl. An acknowledgement of the dangers. Delta Dawn, Angie Baby, Ruby Red Dress… there was probably more of this on country radio, but on the top 40 AM stations? Nope.
Remembering that there was one station my parents had on all the time. WMAL-AM – Harden and Weaver in the morning, news on the hour, pop music in between, jazz at night. Different times.
TS (the original)
@catclub:
Check on https://electoral-vote.com/
Alaska, Kansan Missouri, Tennessee, Montana are Likely GOP
Texas, Arkansas, Georgia are barely GOP
I think the latest Alaska poll had 1 point between the candidates
After 2016, everyone thinks the GOP will come good at the end. Seems this may not happen in 2020.
Ruckus
@HumboldtBlue:
Wanna bet that shitforbrains thought he did great?
BTW I’m not offering a bet here, just an observation that donnie’s view of the world is a lot different than a sane human being.
MCA1
@Leto: Also too, there are two more (maybe) debates, and also also too too, there is maybe 4% of the country that is undecided at this point in this election. All Biden has to do in these things is not drool all over himself to consolidate those (far too many) people who can’t f’ing stand Trump but have been disinformation concern trolled into thinking “but I’m afraid Joe Biden’s incoherent and has dementia” by showing that reality doesn’t quite mesh with their Facebook feeds.
The ads can cover the COVID failures and the lack of empathy for families who’ve lost people to it and being Putin’s bitch and all that stuff.
HumboldtBlue
@Omnes Omnibus:
Agreed.
He’s not an orator but he is articulate and as I learned from my dad who overcame his stutter through music, Joe isn’t lyrical or rhythmic but he’s effective, clear and articulate.
The Pale Scot
@Kent:
That could be Python’s The Funniest Joke in the World if you let yourself think about it
“It was obvious the joke was lethal”
sdhays
@TS (the original): I’m reminded of how Obama didn’t handle his first debate with Trump 1.0 (aka Mitt Romney) that well, with all of the lying and interrupting. And Obama, class act that he is, got on the phone with his supporters and explicitly apologized to them for letting them down. He owned up that he didn’t do as well as he needed to do, and pledged to never let them down like that again.
It was actually pretty stunning to see a President treat his volunteers so explicitly like they’re all in this together (we don’t see that through the media lens much) and that HE OWED THEM something. Imagine that. He’s such an extraordinary leader.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Eolirin: no doubt that was a factor, but they also both came out hard and fast for single payer, and eliminating private insurance, which is actually unpopular. They both bought into the Bernie/Squad hype, and didn’t notice that it was moderates who gave Dems the House majority.
DivF
@TS (the original): I did a quick check on 270towin with the assumptions you made and got Trump at 99 ev.
In 1964 Goldwater got 58, so this would be a comparable wipeout. I think it’s a possibility between the foaming at the mouth and the $1B debt.
HumboldtBlue
@Ruckus:
His supporters don’t and it has all the feel and stink of another Trump fuck up.
Long may they scramble to warble about Biden’s fitness.
Eolirin
@TS (the original): The 1964 map is a lot more lipsided than that would be. I honestly don’t see a path to that kind of map with current demographics. We could win Mississippi and not get close to it.
bluehill
I’m amazed Biden was able to hear anything through his earpiece with the shouting and all.
cain
@Steeplejack:
He won the debate because he raised 3.4 million dollars in one hour.
SoupCatcher
@PJ:
Yeah, I went over there to buy one, “take mah moneeeee,” but Trump’s ugly mug has more real estate than the Biden/Harris logo.
I’ll let them workshop the design a bit more.
MCA1
@Jeffro: The other thing they need to do is trumpet that new rule, and then highlight the hell out of the fact that they forced Dotard to agree to it, because he cannot regulate his behavior like a normal adult. This makes Trump look like the subordinate party in the whole affair, which is a narcissistic wound he can’t tolerate.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
Not everyone gets to vote early, or at least as early as before now. I just got my CA sample ballot yesterday but the actual ballot isn’t out yet. There are states that don’t allow early voting, or at least one, someone on here the other day said they can only vote on 11/3.
patroclus
I just got through watching the “debate” (late work) and Biden won hands down. Trump was just awful – interrupting constantly and trying to dominate every single point with his usual lies. I can’t imagine him picking up any votes tonight. The best that he can hope for is that he solidified his ever diminishing base. If the election continues like this, I expect a Dem blow-out, with large pick-ups in both the Senate and House. Trump simply cannot dial it back even a little. It was embarrassing, to say the least. All Biden had to do was be okay – he succeeded easily. He’s not the greatest debater, but he doesn’t have to be. Cancel the other debates??!! No way! I like it. I love it. I want some more of it!
Eolirin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Neither of them were all in on single payer. But yeah, they probably would have done better if they had rejected it entirely instead of muddling their positions on it.
They still would not have won though.
Ruckus
@Nelle:
trump needs a jacket with wrap around sleeves and a room with padded everything.
Bill Arnold
@Jeffro:
Better than that, have the mic for the person talking on a 2 minute countdown timer, shut off automatically after 2 minutes, with a display on their podium so that they can see their time remaining.
But in any case, no more debates with a mike active for both candidates.
Misterpuff
@tokyokie: No, no, they love him. He gave them Big 10 football, so generous and kind.
James E Powell
@Kent:
University of Arizona , Arizona State, University of Georgia, Georgia State, University of Iowa, Iowa State. There’s a lot of alumni right there.
catclub
@Bill Arnold: isolation booths
cain
@Kent:
They had that on PBS as well. Stupid ass concern trolling.
trnc
There’s no point in asking because he’ll just BS his way through an answer, which gives him the original dog whistle AND the pretense that he meant something else. We know he’s explicitly telling his supporters to go disrupt the election sites, and that’s what any reporter or interviewer should say.
HumboldtBlue
This is the kind of run-around we need
Quinerly
@Morzer: that entire thread is worth the read. Thanks for the post re Ruthie.
The Pale Scot
@Adam L Silverman:
Here ya go
Dracarys !
HumboldtBlue
Then there is Melania.
cain
@Kent:
That would explain it.. Yeah, I remember when Old Town was not a safe place. It’s still fairly sketch but generally safe. I generally walk briskly near the train station.
JaySinWA
@Kay: CBS had Don Jr for analysis. This is at the low end of the Biden polls. Coincidence?
cain
maybe a false flag to get liberals to relax some.
Anne Laurie
New post up top, for freshness. Chris Wallace not being able to control the Manbaby clip, this time.
trnc
True. I think the next time DT interrupts him, Joe should just stop and say, “You really have to have the attention all the time, don’t you? You’re the world’s biggest brat.”
trnc
DT would martyrize that until the end of time. I think instead that Joe needs to be prepared for it with a couple of comments like “280 pound baby” and “attention whore.”
Ruckus
@CaseyL:
It’s not on the mobile site no matter what orientation. Probably hurt performance and take up too much screen area.
trnc
@CaseyL: Trying to figure out who that insults more – the goat or the pcp?
trnc
@catclub: I’ve been somewhat confused by the non-wingnut things Luntz has said the last couple of years. Still wouldn’t trust him in my house, though.
Bill Arnold
@WV Blondie:
I actually did that several decades ago. It was a anti-nuclear-weapons gathering at a Midwestern college, and I was sitting in the front row with a friend (surname Daemon, really), and the microphone jacks were right in front of us. And a young Spartacist guy (of some sort) took over the mike and was rambling on about socialism. (They’d been previously practicing their craft in the breakout sessions). And my friend quietly suggested that I pull the mike cord, and I did. The Spartacists were really annoyed that I so simply and effectively spiked their disruption. :-) Friend was tae kwon do trained and stood like he was trained (and he <em>was</em> kinda dangerous) and no fight broke out. (I’ve since earned a couple of black belts.) My actions are much more covert these days. And if i did that to someone reading here, sorry, sort of.
So yeah, cutting mikes can work wonders. :-)
Fair Economist
@catclub:
At various points there have been good quality polls showing Biden within 3 in AS, AK, and MO. So, yes for some.
lgerard
Ken Bone declares Biden the handy winner
https://twitter.com/kenbone18/status/1311134370435137536
That’s that then
Bill Arnold
@catclub:
My undergraduate college had a few of those for psych experiments. A few times, I broke in at night through steam tunnels to use one of them to study. Nice and quiet, easier to get into a flow state. :-)
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@HumboldtBlue: Escorts don’t hug or kiss their customers
TS (the original)
@sdhays:
I so well remember that debate. President Obama had a massive opening with Romney talking b.s. in the first few minutes and Obama 100% blew it. I had to turn off the TV.
But as you say, he knew he had blown it, and blamed no-one but himself.
TS (the original)
@DivF:
They weren’t my “assumptions”. That is the polling as evaluated by electoralvote.com
I doubt Biden will get them all – but he could well get most of them. Texas would be the real victory.
TS (the original)
@cain:
No, just a possibility that the democrats will do much better than most think is possible. The lies of the GOP & gerrymandering, vote suppression etc have made it near impossible for democrats to go near 1964, but they can still do better than the VIP pundits are predicting.
TriassicSands
@ruemara:
I’m curious. Do you read entire comments or just stop if you come across something you don’t like?
I wrote:
I guess that was my opinion, all mine, and it certainly makes your comment seem like it missed the mark.
TriassicSands
@glyph2112:
There is an element of truth in that. Overcoming a stutter is a huge accomplishment. But Biden’s problem is not how he says things but what he says. Recently, Biden was quoted as saying that all COVID-19 dead would be alive if Trump weren’t president. I don’t see how a stutter contributed to him making such a ridiculous statement.
I think Biden has done extremely well to be able to speak as effectively as he does. But he will never have the rhetorical facility that Warren or Harris have. That said, he’s a lot better to listen to than Bernie Sanders.
I’m proud of him for calling Trump a clown — all he did was openly acknowledge the obvious. The deference we have historically paid to our presidents simply can’t apply to someone who behaves as offensively as Trump. Joe is low key. It was also great when he finally said, “Will you just shut-up?” No sign of a stutter there!
Uncle Cosmo
In my collegiate years (a couple of generations ago) it was widely understood there were schools (mostly public) that were easy to get into but demanded a lot of hard work once there in order to get through with decent grades, and there were schools that were hard to get into[1] but once in you could more or less coast. Call them the C-curve schools vs the B-curve schools. The Ivies, and other institutions of high repute[2], were the latter.
[1] Unless you were a “legacy,” an athlete of the proper sort, a minority token, or the scion of a fambly ready willing & able to dump megabuck$ into the endowment.
[2] My own alma mutter, Johns Hopkins, was/is kind of a hybrid: C-curves in engineering courses but B-curves everywhere else. The theory was that an engineer could do a lot to disgrace his school with a bachelor’s degree, but in any other discipline the chances for embarrassment were minimal without a higher degree, and a fistful of Cs would destroy one’s chances at grad school just as efficiently as Ds or Fs. (One could always teach with a C-average out of JHU, but the administration lumped public school teachers in with the janitors.)
OGLiberal
@trnc: They likely think that the fact that he doesn’t really pay any taxes is business genius on his part. Or that most of his businesses report major losses. Or that he and his kids pay themselves consulting fees from a company that are employees of. That what smart bidness folks do?
I do not want to paint too broad a brush here but I think Trump gets a lot of support from right-leaning “small” business owners who think they are god’s gift to the economy and that because of that they shouldn’t pay taxes so while they really bring home about $300k a year, employ undocumented immigrants to whom they pay crap, have two homes, three cars, a really nice expensive pickup, and an in-ground pool, they claim to be “economically anxious” and also probably only report about $75K in “official” income because they lie and/or write off a bunch of shit…just like Trump. He’s their hero because he does what they do and has a fancy 5th Avenue apartment with the most disgusting, gold plated (likely not real gold) furnishings and a bunch of other extremely tasteless and horrible looking interior decorations and an unwarranted and untrue reputation as a great businessman.
In my part of Northeast PA – the rural part – the homes with the most and biggest Trump signs – like the ones with the huge “No More Bullshit” flags – don’t exactly look like they are having economic problems. Not at all.
Uncle Cosmo
QFT. I love Senator/Professor Warren as a policy wonk but she has the political acumen of tree moss – her shtick played well with Jackals (representative of maybe 1% of the Democratic electorate) but nowhere else. (She lost her home state fer chrissake!)
Kamala counted on AA women carrying her through after the first primaries, was stunned when they flocked to Uncle Joe instead, & decided the only way forward was to kneecap him in the debates, because once he was toast all those votes would fall to her… Frankly it’s a testament to Biden’s basic decency, & ability to see the best in others, that he could write that off to “just politics,” trust what he knew of her via her connection with Beau, & comfortably elevate her to running-mate.