Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Our messy unity will be our strength.

Books are my comfort food!

Come on, man.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

There are a lot more evil idiots than evil geniuses.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

The lights are all blinking red.

Disagreements are healthy; personal attacks are not.

Giving up is unforgivable.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

This blog will pay for itself.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

We still have time to mess this up!

I like political parties that aren’t owned by foreign adversaries.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

The words do not have to be perfect.

When I was faster i was always behind.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

People identifying as christian while ignoring christ and his teachings is a strange thing indeed.

You are here: Home / Healthcare / COVID-19 / Chill Grey Dawn Open Thread: Clusterf*ck At the Dumpster Fire

Chill Grey Dawn Open Thread: Clusterf*ck At the Dumpster Fire

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… Ain’t that just the nicest way of phrasing this mess.

Because I am a devout Cynic, it would not surprise me if lifelong germophobe and hypochondriac Trump mistook a post-bad-debate panic attack (pouring sweat, trembling hands, shortness of breath) for an attack of the ‘Rona. If so, after a few days of ‘medical’ pampering — have you seen the sweet Presidential suite at Walter Reed? — he will emerge as ‘fit’ as ever, and twice as obnoxious, braying about his superior genes.

On the other hand, who knows, maybe he’s really sick! Many emergency doctors have pointed out that frequently the first symptom of a coronavirus among the elderly is not fever, but confusion, anxiety, rage, even hallucinations — much as displayed by the guy standing on the opposite side of the debate platform from Joe Biden last Tuesday.

Either way, his entire administration and the rest of the GOP death cult will continue to lie about it, just as they are lying right now, and have been lying since news of the ‘novel Wuhan-based virus’ arose back in January. Keep the hip boots handy…


Schadenfreudelicious rumors from a best-selling rumormonger:

… The White House’s shifting chronology and lack of transparency are being driven, in part, by Trump’s desire to conceal the seriousness of his illness from the public. Three sources said Trump argued with his doctors on Friday after they told him he needed to be moved to Walter Reed. “He didn’t want to go to the hospital a month before the election,” a Republican close to Trump told me. Two sources said doctors gave Trump an ultimatum: he could go to the hospital while he could still walk, or doctors would be forced to take him in a wheelchair or on a stretcher at a later point if his health deteriorated. “They told him, ‘You can go now or we’re taking you later and it’s non negotiable,’” a second source close to the White House said. Trump waited to leave for the hospital until the stock market closed on Friday, a source said.

After spending months denying the dangers of COVID-19, Trump is expressing an emotion aides have rarely seen: fear. On Friday, Trump grew visibly anxious as his fever spiked to 103 fahrenheit and he was administered oxygen at the White House, according to three Republicans close to the White House. Two sources told me Trump experienced heart palpitations on Friday night—possible side effects of the experimental antibody treatment he received. Trump has wondered aloud if he could defeat the disease. “Am I going out like Stan Chera?” Trump has asked aides, referring to his friend, New York real-estate developer Stan Chera, who died of COVID in April.

On Saturday, two sources said Trump was feeling better. But it is difficult to assess the information given the White House’s history of lying. According to a source, Chief of Staff Mark Meadows has told Republicans that the next few days will be critical to determine the virus’s outcome. “Meadows has said if Trump can get out of the hospital by Tuesday, then he’s gone through the worst of it. But if he’s still there after Tuesday, the worst is yet to come,” the source told me.

Inside Trumpworld, the shock of Trump’s hospitalization is giving way to despair about his prospects in the upcoming election. “They all know it’s over,” a Republican close to the campaign said…

Reader Interactions

282Comments

  2. 2.

    Nicole

    What I will never forgive the GOP for (well, one of the many things), is that I’ve reached a point where I simply don’t believe anything my government tells me. That’s a very stressful place to be.

  4. 4.

    Splitting Image

    Just goes to show that Trump is the symptom, not the disease.

    The entire basis of these guys’ worldview is that everybody else is supposed to give them the benefit of the doubt no matter what they say, so telling one howler of a lie after another is all in a day’s work. Did you know that Jesus is their personal saviour?

    I’ve seen people say they are afraid that Trump will get a sympathy boost out of this, but I think the constant lying will stop that from happening.

  5. 5.

    PsiFighter37

    A lot of people seem to think both the video and pictures released of Trump yesterday are edited and/or taken before he left for Walter Reed. Perhaps the most amusing one is of him signing a blank piece of paper with a Sharpie…these idiots can’t even fake-stage a fake signing properly.

  6. 6.

    sanjeevs

    Likely scenario is Trump knew he had tested positive before the debate.

    So he deliberately arrived late at the debate so he couldn’t be tested.

    Then he spent two hours shouting in Biden’s direction in the hope he would infect Biden.

  7. 7.

    mrmoshpotato

    the shock of Trump’s hospitalization is giving way to despair about his prospects in the upcoming election

    Oh these shitstained assclowns.

    How about the despair caused by the realization that we’re coming for all you Russthuglican fuckfaces and taking no prisoners?

  8. 8.

    Morzer

    I am grimly amused by the dismantling of the latest Trump propaganda video which couldn’t even edit out his coughing competently. And then there are the propaganda pictures which show him signing… a blank page of paper.  What a miserable goat rodeo the White House currently is.

  9. 9.

    scav

    Consider this.  We’ve finally found something that Trump and the Republicans as a whole will actually share — willingly and enthusiastically share — with everyone; a deadly disease.

  14. 14.

    Geo Wilcox

    I just read a frightening post on the ProMed site. This shit can trigger Parkinson’s disease. It happened before after the 1918 flu pandemic. A huge surge in Parkinson’s diagnoses happened 3 years after the pandemic burned out.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1474442220303057?via%3Dihub

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-23/covid-19-may-cause-parkinsons-disease-research-finds/12688384

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41531-020-00123-0

  16. 16.

    Nicole

    @Anne Laurie: Thank you for asking! She’s on the last few days of a 10-day antibiotic course and seems right as rain again.  The (new) vet ran bloodwork and said everything was perfect, so it looks like a UTI was indeed the problem. She’ll have a follow up this week to be sure though.

  17. 17.

    tokyocali (formerly tokyo expat)

    Biden will have his work cut out for him in restoring the credibility and competence of our government.

    We have no idea when the president actually found out he was positive. Was it 72 hours before or 48 hours before?

    We have a CDC who was standing by to do contact tracing, but was never told to go ahead and do so. People attending various events have apparently not been contacted.

    Local health authorities have not been contacted by the White House and are doing what they can to figure out who attended the events in their states (MN, NJ, etc.)

    We have doctors at our top military hospital providing more spin than doctoring if you listen to Commander whatshisname.

    This administration has been a farce from start to finish. I hope this closes the chapter on them, but I know it won’t. We are stuck with this reality TV family and their horribleness for the foreseeable future.

  19. 19.

    TS (the original)

    I feel for the ordinary people who work at the white house East & West). What on earth are they supposed to do? Business as usual? Quarantine? Get tested?

    Everything I read tells me they are finding out what is happening in the media. Great example of health place work & safety within this administration.

  22. 22.

    zhena gogolia

    @Nicole:

    I never thought this country would feel like the Soviet Union in this respect. But it does.

    We’re down to the point of getting clues based on them playing Swan Lake on TV.

  24. 24.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    I just keep thinking of this quote from Archer: “This is like O. Henry and Alanis Morissette had a baby and named it this exact situation.”

    (That episode also has a reference to Chekhov’s gun, by the way. Not too many animated comedies can boast that.)

    Whoever is writing this season has obviously given up on subtlety, but at this point, I’m here for it. Subtlety obviously was lost on most of the American public. Maybe this will sink in.

    Cēterum cēnseō factiōnem Rēpūblicānam esse dēlendam īgnī ferrōque.

  25. 25.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I’m having a lot of trouble reconciling this…

    Three sources said Trump argued with his doctors on Friday after they told him he needed to be moved to Walter Reed. “He didn’t want to go to the hospital a month before the election,” a Republican close to Trump told me. Two sources said doctors gave Trump an ultimatum: he could go to the hospital while he could still walk, or doctors would be forced to take him in a wheelchair or on a stretcher at a later point if his health deteriorated. “They told him, ‘You can go now or we’re taking you later and it’s non negotiable,’” a second source close to the White House said.

    …with this:

    But I had no choice because I just didn’t want to stay in the White House. I was given that alternative: Stay in the White House, lock yourself in, don’t ever leave, don’t even go to the Oval Office, just stay upstairs and enjoy it. Don’t see people, don’t talk to people, and just be done with it, and I can’t do that.

    Or better stated, I would have trouble reconciling the two statements if I didn’t know for a fact that Trump and every single person in this custerfluck of a maladministration lies about everything. Everything.

  26. 26.

    RandomMonster

    @Morzer:

    Looks like COVID-19 is just mowing down anyone in the White House without mercy.

    It moved on ‘em like a bitch.

  28. 28.

    Princess

    “Because I am a devout Cynic, it would not surprise me if lifelong germophobe and hypochondriac Trump mistook a post-bad-debate panic attack (pouring sweat, trembling hands, shortness of breath) for an attack of the ‘Rona.”

    You say this, but i think I had the exact opposite happen to me. I thought I was having a panic attack and later realized it was a virus when my husband had the same thing happen a few days later. And even later I wondered if it had been ‘Rona because we had both bee exposed to someone who had the same thing a few days before us who herself had ben exposed to someone who died of ‘Rona.

    My own guess with Trump is that they are using a rapid test that is inclined to give false positives. He got a few positive tests and insisted they were false until he came down with symptoms. This is why they won’t tell us when his last negative test was — may have been a week Friday!

  29. 29.

    J R in WV

    @(((CassandraLeo))):

    Good to see you,  I  missed you being here!

    How have you been lately?

    It looks like your slogan will get a good workout to me. Do keep in touch,  the place isn’t really the same without you!

  30. 30.

    Stacib

    Where are the tweets proclaiming how he has kicked this hoax virus in the ass, and he will re emerge stronger, smarter and more handsome than evah???

  33. 33.

    Morzer

    Because I am a devout Cynic

    Northern Conservative Cynic Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Cynic Eastern Region?

  34. 34.

    rikyrah

    Every Democrat in a debate with a Republican needs to bring their own version of the Jamie Harrison plastic booth.

    They do not Respect science and can’t be trusted.

    That includes Kamala.

  35. 35.

    SFAW

    @TS (the original):

    I feel for the ordinary people who work at the white house East & West). What on earth are they supposed to do? Business as usual? Quarantine? Get tested?

    Murderer-in-Chief affecting a Gert Frobe accent: “No, peons, I expect you to DIE!.”

    ETA: Yes, I know he thinks “peon” is two words, and only associated with Russian hookers.

  36. 36.

    hells littlest angel

    The past two days I have woken up feeling great. I think I’ve turned the corner.

  37. 37.

    SFAW

    @rikyrah:

    Every Democrat in a debate with a Republican needs to bring their own version of the Jamie Harrison plastic booth.

    I saw a clip of Harrison taking the wood to Graham last night re: Graham’s whoring on SCOTUS confirmations in an election year, but in general how did the debate go for Harrison? The usual suspects said he “destroyed” Graham, but they tend to be hyperbolic (to put it mildly).

  41. 41.

    Patricia Kayden

    There are those who wish Trump a full and speedy recovery and there are those who wish the worst for him.There are good people on both sides.— Barney Panofsky's Best Intentions (@mynamesnotgordy) October 4, 2020

  44. 44.

    JPL

    @Morzer:  The White House was hoping the president would be asymptomatic and tried to bury the Hope Hicks diagnosis.   Jacobs broke that story and then the House of Cards started collapsing.

  46. 46.

    SFAW

    @rikyrah:

    Yeah, I’ve seen the polls. I’m just hoping Graham doesn’t “Harvey Gantt” him. Good to hear that you thought Harrison did well. Thanks!

  47. 47.

    Sloane Ranger

     

    @Stacib:

     

     

    Where are the tweets proclaiming how he has kicked this hoax virus in the ass, and he will re emerge stronger, smarter and more handsome than evah???

    Yes, I wondered that. Didn’t he use to have a ghost tweeter? I remember Adam saying he could tell whether a tweet actually came from Trump based on the phone used. Where’s this guy now? Or is he one of those who have also gone down with COVID-19?

    Hell, even Herman Cain managed to tweet when he was actually dead!

  50. 50.

    SFAW

    @Sloane Ranger:

    Hell, even Herman Cain managed to tweet when he was actually dead!

    Well, it IS kind of fitting that twitter is the usual mode of communication from those “souls” in Hell.

  54. 54.

    Princess

    @rikyrah: Yes, I watched several clips and I thought he was excellent. I felt like his message was carefully calibrated to appeal to winnable voters, and he stayed on it. His answer to the question about partisanship was especially well done. He seemed confident without being arrogant, and Graham was a scared whiny mess.,

  55. 55.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    Kudos to John King for comparing the White House staff to the Keystone Cops.  These guys are the Keystone Cops on steroids.

     

    Kyle Pope @kylepope

    This gang doesn’t do normal, and there’s no reason to think things have changed just because the president is in the hospital. The lies, the spin, the BS are the norm with them. Pretending it will be different *this time* is the enduring mistake of journalism under Trump.

    12:11 PM · Oct 3, 2020

     

    h/t https://twitter.com/kylepope/status/1312424964189020162

  58. 58.

    Ken

    Has anyone suggested that maybe Trump always signs blank pieces of paper, and they print whatever they want on them later? Barr probably has a stack of a couple hundred ready for National Pardon Day, which falls on November 5 this year.

  59. 59.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @Bruce K: For sure. This is most certainly one of them!

    @J R in WV: Thanks! I’ve been trying to avoid obsessing over the news too much lately, so I’ve been focusing more on some of my hobbies (game development being the big one – I’m trying to avoid providing any information that could potentially dox myself, but if you search for information on third-party Marathon Aleph One mods, you’ll undoubtedly uncover at least one to which I’ve contributed and/or am still contributing), but then something like this happens, and how can you not obsess?

    In any case… I’m doing OK. Lost a pet these last few months. Still grieving over that. Still grieving about RBG, too. Doing a decent job staying up with classes, with one or two slip-ups here or there. I’ll try to avoid disappearing completely for this long in the future. Hope you’re staying well as well!

    I’ve added “with fire and sword” to the end of my Latin phrase at the end of each of my comments, BTW, because Cato the Censor by himself just isn’t forceful enough to convey my utter contempt for the party any longer. The current translation is: “Furthermore, I opine that the Republican Party is to be destroyed with fire and sword.” My addendum is a phrase commonly used in Latin writing to describe scorched-earth tactics in warfare.

    At some point, I feel as though I may have to graduate to nuking the entire party from orbit… because it’s the only way to be sure. But I rather doubt that the Romans had a phrase for the use of nuclear weapons.

    Cēterum cēnseō factiōnem Rēpūblicānam esse dēlendam īgnī ferrōque.

  62. 62.

    Chicagopat

    “Trump is expressing an emotion aides have rarely seen: fear.”

    Rather than,  “Trump is manifesting his normal gibbering, incoherent fear of inadequacy,  embarrassment and betrayal, layered over with an actual fear of imminent death,  which they haven’t seen before. “

  68. 68.

    Patricia Kayden

    Headlines from new NBC/WSJ poll (conducted after the debate, 9/30-10/1)1. Biden's national lead among registered voters expands from 8pts to 14ptsBiden 53%Trump 39%Was Biden 51%, Trump 43% in Sept poll before debate— Mark Murray (@mmurraypolitics) October 4, 2020

  69. 69.

    MomSense

    I texted my kids yesterday to ask if anyone else was checking their phones to see if the president was dead yet.  Teenager responded immediately that it was the first thing he did when he woke up.
    I’m not going to feel guilty about it anymore.  That motherfucker was rooting for people in blue states to die and using the power of the government to make it happen.  They have been trying to kill us.

  70. 70.

    MattF

    And no, he wasn’t signing a so-called ‘blank’ sheet of paper. It was his healthcare plan.

  71. 71.

    Ken

    @sanjeevs: “And men 50 years and older moved from a 13-point advantage for Trump in the pre-debate NBC News/WSJ poll, to a 1-point advantage for Biden in this latest poll.”

    I finally feel I can show my face in public again.  Except for the pandemic thing.

  72. 72.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @Chicagopat:

    Trump has been hoisted by his own petard and I feel fine about that.

    I do hope he recovers from COVID not because I care about the ratfucking bastard, but because he deserves to die in a prison cell as a convicted felon.

  74. 74.

    hells littlest angel

    @MomSense: I confess that upon awakening I’ve been  checking to see if Trump is dead for the last four years, but it’s been a lot more fun and exciting the past couple of days.

  75. 75.

    debbie

    There was a sizable Trump Truck Rally here yesterday. Apparently they drove slowly along one of the interstates. Of course, there was an altercation and one of the paraders shot at a truck driver who was probably ticked off at the slow-down.

  79. 79.

    hells littlest angel

    @Morzer: If he survives and when he loses, the right-wing will pretend he never existed, though the ONAN network will probably give him some airtime.

  80. 80.

    Morzer

    @Morzer: I must admit that I do sometimes think it would be fun to get lots of people to tweet at Trump “HELLO, DONALD” in the voice of Terry Pratchett’s Death.

  81. 81.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @MattF: And no, he wasn’t signing a so-called ‘blank’ sheet of paper. It was his healthcare plan.

    But then, you repeat yourself.

  82. 82.

    Morzer

    @hells littlest angel: I think you are absolutely wrong about that. The right wing isn’t going to get any say in the matter. The cultists will primary anyone who even suggests that Trump isn’t the bigliest and bestest.

  84. 84.

    debbie

    I expect lots of people here were disappointed in Jim Carey’s Biden on SNL, but that bit with the remote control saved the whole thing for me.

  85. 85.

    Ken

    @Morzer: He wouldn’t recognize it since he’s never read Pratchett. I say that with some confidence since (1) he never reads the official papers he’s supposed to read and (2) Pratchett doesn’t talk about him so he wouldn’t see any point in reading it.

  86. 86.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @Morzer: Small Gods has my favourite ending of any work of literature in human history. Tagged as white text because, really now.

    “Ah. There really is a desert. Does everyone get this?” said Brutha.
    Wʜᴏ ᴋɴᴏᴡs?
    “And what is at the end of the desert?”
    Jᴜᴅɢᴇᴍᴇɴᴛ.
    Brutha considered this.
    “Which end?”
    Death grinned and stepped aside.
    What Brutha had thought was a rock in the sand was a hunched figure, sitting clutching its knees. It looked paralysed with fear.
    He stared.
    ‘Vorbis?’ he said.
    He looked at Death.
    ‘But Vorbis died a hundred years ago!’
    Yᴇs. Hᴇ ʜᴀᴅ ᴛᴏ ᴡᴀʟᴋ ɪᴛ ᴀʟʟ ᴀʟᴏɴᴇ. Aʟʟ ᴀʟᴏɴᴇ ᴡɪᴛʜ ʜɪᴍsᴇʟғ. Iғ ʜᴇ ᴅᴀʀᴇᴅ.
    ‘He’s been here for a hundred years?’
    Pᴏssɪʙʟʏ ɴᴏᴛ. Tɪᴍᴇ ɪs ᴅɪғғᴇʀᴇɴᴛ ʜᴇʀᴇ. Iᴛ ɪs… ᴍᴏʀᴇ ᴘᴇʀsᴏɴᴀʟ.
    ‘Ah. You mean a hundred years can pass like a few seconds?’
    A ʜᴜɴᴅʀᴇᴅ ʏᴇᴀʀs ᴄᴀɴ ᴘᴀss ʟɪᴋᴇ ɪɴғɪɴɪᴛʏ.
    The black-on-black eyes stared imploringly at Brutha, who reached out automatically, without thinking … and then hesitated.
    Hᴇ ᴡᴀs ᴀ ᴍᴜʀᴅᴇʀᴇʀ, said Death. Aɴᴅ ᴀ ᴄʀᴇᴀᴛᴏʀ ᴏғ ᴍᴜʀᴅᴇʀᴇʀs. A ᴛᴏʀᴛᴜʀᴇʀ. Wɪᴛʜᴏᴜᴛ ᴄᴏᴍᴘᴀssɪᴏɴ. Cʀᴜᴇʟ. Cᴀʟʟᴏᴜs. Cᴏᴍᴘᴀssɪᴏɴʟᴇss.
    ‘Yes. I know. He’s Vorbis,’ said Brutha. Vorbis changed people. Sometimes he changed them into dead people. But he always changed them. That was his triumph.
    He sighed.
    ‘But I’m me,’ he said.
    Vorbis stood up, uncertainly, and followed Brutha across the desert.
    Death watched them walk away.

    I’m resolutely agnostic, but if there’s an afterlife, I hope we get one like that.

    I, meanwhile, am nowhere near that merciful.

    Cᴇ́ᴛᴇʀᴜᴍ ᴄᴇ́ɴsᴇᴏ́ ғᴀᴄᴛɪᴏ́ɴᴇᴍ Rᴇ́ᴘᴠ́ʙʟɪᴄᴀ́ɴᴀᴍ ᴇssᴇ ᴅᴇ́ʟᴇɴᴅᴀᴍ ɪ́ɢɴɪ́ ғᴇʀʀᴏ́ᴏ̨ᴜᴇ.

  87. 87.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Morzer: Could we get a GoFundMe to pay someone to stroll silently by his bed at 3 am in a Grim Reaper outfit every night? That would satisfy me.

  89. 89.

    Suzanne

    @Morzer: I want Trump to survive, too. If he dies now, he won’t live to see Melania divorce him and take what remains of his money, Ivanka become a pariah upon her return to New York, and his most hardcore followers devolve into total liars who, within eighteen months….. well, it’ll seem like no one will admit voting for the man. I’d love for all of that to happen while he’s in prison, but I’m not optimistic about that part.

    If he dies now, he gets to evade any consequences.

  90. 90.

    trnc

    “Am I going out like Stan Chera?”

    Not “Am I going out like 214,000 others?” Nope, just the one guy he knew.

  94. 94.

    trnc

    @sanjeevs: Likely scenario is Trump knew he had tested positive before the debate.

    Yup, but incontestable is that he and his family at least knew they had been exposed to someone who was very ill, so the malicious intent is clear.

  96. 96.

    dmsilev

    @Suzanne: Or, to quote the classics,

    To the pain’ means that the first thing you lose will be your feet below the ankles. Then your hands at the wrists, next your nose… The next thing you lose will be your left eye, followed by your right. […] Your ears you keep, and I’ll tell you why: so that every shriek of every child at seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish; every babe that weeps at your approach; every woman who cries out, ‘Dear God! What is that thing?’ will echo in your perfect ears. That is what ‘to the pain’ means; it means I leave you in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery, forever.

  97. 97.

    geg6

    @SFAW:

    I didn’t see the whole thing but have now partaken in several clips.  He took a 2×4 to Lindsay’s knees, a baseball bat to his ribs and a saw to his neck.  He was beautiful.  He’s a real star, I think.

  99. 99.

    MomSense

    @hells littlest angel:

    @Sab:

    Yesterday I went for a really nice hike that took me to two beautiful coves.  The pup did some wading and some rolling in mud.  I felt lighter of spirit than I have in a couple years.

  100. 100.

    Brachiator

    On the other hand, who knows, maybe he’s really sick!

    Trump might be a hell of a con man, but it would be tough even for him to take a positive test result. It’s not like sneaking in a dummy urine sample.

  101. 101.

    Ken

    @H.E.Wolf: One striking thing about that electoral map is that, if all the other states are assigned correctly, Trump could take California and still lose, with Biden taking more electoral votes than Trump got in 2016.

  103. 103.

    trnc

    @Geo Wilcox: I just read a frightening post on the ProMed site. This shit can trigger Parkinson’s disease. It happened before after the 1918 flu pandemic.

    This is why I have nothing but contempt for Scott Atlas and his ilk. It’s crazy to claim a virus with no vaccine and with known lingering effects is like the flu or any other virus we’re familiar with. Covid has after effects that would seem unrelated to the illness itself, like brain damage, and that’s just what we know 9 months in.

    Another reason someone who is not an epidemiologist or who does not have the relevant experience should not have a megaphone in the public discourse.

  107. 107.

    TS (the original)

    Don’t know if this has been posted

    Headlines from new NBC/WSJ poll (conducted after the debate, 9/30-10/1)

    1. Biden’s national lead among registered voters expands from 8pts to 14pts

    Biden 53%
    Trump 39%

    Was Biden 51%, Trump 43% in Sept poll before debate
    — Mark Murray (@mmurraypolitics) October 4, 2020

  108. 108.

    trnc

    @OzarkHillbilly: Reports are that his brother died of covid too.

    No official cause was given, so that’s most likely correct. DT was probably told it wasn’t covid because he probably insisted it wasn’t.

  113. 113.

    trnc

    @Morzer: Looks like COVID-19 is just mowing down anyone in the White House without mercy.

    I think I read there was a no mask policy in place by Meadows, but can’t remember for sure or vouch for it.

  114. 114.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @dmsilev: I literally quoted that speech last night on LGM. I find myself thinking of it often, these days.

    @OzarkHillbilly: Done deliberately, as @Ken said, to avoid spoiling the ending of the book for people who haven’t read it yet. If you highlight it, it should be perfectly legible. If not, I recommend getting a better browser, or I guess you could always copy it to a new Notepad document.

    Cēterum cēnseō factiōnem Rēpūblicānam esse dēlendam īgnī ferrōque.

  115. 115.

    JPL

    I’ve been thinking about The Great Gatsby lately and might have to read it again.  They were careless people, Tom and Daisy – they smashed up things.     The difference is that they didn’t have the power to kill so many and Daisy didn’t say f..k this Christmas stuff.

    I hope Biden can pick up the pieces and remind us what a functioning government looks like.

  116. 116.

    artem1s

     

    I’ve seen people say they are afraid that Trump will get a sympathy boost out of this

    @Splitting Image:

    I read thru the comments on an ABC article about the superspreader debate in CLE and found not one sympathetic remark. I’m sure the bots haven’t gotten to it yet, but after a couple of dozen you always get at least one troll for the troll.  So it was definitely weird. People are pissed. Less about him than their friends, colleagues, neighbors, family who are being exposed because of someone’s complete lack of concern for others.  It might finally be sinking in exactly how ruthless and horrid these people are.  Those who have tried to be civil and remain calm have just lost all patience with that and are speaking out in numbers that we haven’t seen before.

  119. 119.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @(((CassandraLeo))): I got it now. It was just that before now I had never heard the phrase, “Tagged as white text” and had no idea what it was. I thought maybe it meant, “No dumbshit, luddite Hillbillies allowed.”

  121. 121.

    Ken

    @debbie: I think that was a foreigner, with ways different from our own.  Or was that the guy who said Trump should make Ivanka vice-president?

    Anyway as someone noted, that just means Pelosi becomes president in January, since she’d (presumably) still be speaker and we wouldn’t have a president or vice-president.

  122. 122.

    trnc

    @MomSense: I’m not going to feel guilty about it anymore. That motherfucker was rooting for people in blue states to die and using the power of the government to make it happen.

    Yup. I was glad to see that Biden was hitting back some this morning. I suppose there’s still some kind of line somewhere he shouldn’t cross, but if DT’s team is going to keep saying how well he’s doing, why should Biden have to worry about negative ads at this point?

    Does anyone know if DT has pulled negative ads since Biden did? Or did the checks from the donors he tried to infect bounce?

  127. 127.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @debbie: People say all kinds of stupid shit.  The presidential succession and the date of the election are not things in Trump’s control.

  129. 129.

    artem1s

    @Ken:

    Trump always signs blank pieces of paper

    sad part about that dog and pony show is all of them think this is what work looks like. FFS

  130. 130.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @OzarkHillbilly: Haha, no, I just meant the HTML/CSS tags on the text were specifying a white colour. Perhaps I should’ve specifically used the word “spoiler”, but in my defence, I’d just mentioned that it was the ending of the book. No worries though.

    @trnc: Judging from the shit I’m seeing on YouTube, they absolutely have not pulled negative ads.

    Cēterum cēnseō factiōnem Rēpūblicānam esse dēlendam īgnī ferrōque.

  132. 132.

    ThresherK

    CBS Sunday Morning has introduced a segment talking about the idea of the October Surprise. Nixon sabotaging peace talks with North Vietnam; Reagan interfering with the Iranians; you know?

    Nothing this year has been an October Surprise.

    Aren’t there any grownup journos left at CBS?

  133. 133.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @(((CassandraLeo))): I just meant the HTML/CSS tags on the text were specifying a white colour.

    Teeheehee… You actually think that would have made a difference., your lack of knowledge about the depths of my ignorance is just adorable.

  138. 138.

    MoCA Ace

    @rikyrah: Three North Carolina establishments close to deep clean after Ivanka Trump visit

    I think that’s SOP with all Trumps isn’t it?

  139. 139.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Chicagopat:

    “Trump is expressing an emotion aides have rarely seen: fear.”

    sources close to the president-elect who were pretty clearly Chris Christie said (IIRC) he looked like he had seen a ghost when the ’16 returns started to come in. I think Fredo let slip something similar.

  140. 140.

    Patricia Kayden

    Yep.

    Suddenly it’s the Coronavirus and not the China Virus. Suddenly we’re all in this together. Suddenly the Republican party is calling for people to show empathy. Suddenly it’s clear none of them cared until it affected them. YOU never mattered to him or them.— Chase Stefano ??️‍? #Resistance (@StefanoChase) October 2, 2020

  141. 141.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @trnc:

    50 year old and up men moving from overwhelmingly DT to slight Biden advantage was the biggest surprise for me.

    1. Biden didn’t drool on himself like trump said he would
    2. trump undid his own ‘tool of the radical left’ talking point a couple of times, IIRC (You just lost the left!)
    3. not limited to white men over 50
    4. maybe because that’s one of the most vulnerable demos for Covid? (even though this poll was I gather before trump’s public diagnosis)
  145. 145.

    Ihop

    Please forgive if this has been already said, but I believe the phrase we seek is “criminally negligent genocide”.

    Although a good team of attorneys might be able to talk it down to “casually”.

  147. 147.

    MoCA Ace

    @debbie: I expect lots of people here were disappointed in Jim Carey’s Biden on SNL

    It was exactly what I expected.  He plays one character.  I’m just surprised he didn’t roll out an “all righty then”.  I find him unwatchable.

  149. 149.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @MoCA Ace: on the whole I think SNL has been pretty good the last couple years, but the reliance on stunt-casting is so weird and so weak, especially bringing Jim Carrey down from the pop-culture attic

    I guess we should be glad they didn’t go to the Kate McKinnon well again for Biden. And I like Kate McKinnon

  150. 150.

    germy

    Trump suing to gut the ACA while his hospital room has a chandelier dining room seems like bad optics.

    — Tentin Quarantino (@agraybee) October 3, 2020

    U.S president Trump isn’t staying in any old hospital room. Walter Reed Hospital has a six-room presidential suite just for the commander in chief that includes an intensive care unit, a kitchen, a living room, a bedroom, & a dining room with a crystal chandelier. pic.twitter.com/QQVhFYjzLJ

    — Richard Southern (@richard680news) October 3, 2020

  152. 152.

    hueyplong

    Just watched parts of the SC debate and just wow.  Either Lindsey Graham REALLY had to go to the bathroom or he physically showed the TV audience that he knew he was being flayed alive.

    That was some GoT-level stuff.

    I’m a fan of this Harrison guy

  154. 154.

    Kay

    Good polling this weekend for Biden! I wonder if the low quality Trump hires are looking for work yet- is the nation’s private sector scam industry prepared to absorb all the newly unemployed Trump hires?

    I heard there were openings at My Pillow.

  158. 158.

    trollhattan

    @Kay:

    Is there a legit chance Lindsay loses? That would be amazing, if so. Losing to a black man in South Carolina would make it 5X so. LFG!

  160. 160.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @hueyplong: I’m usually skeptical of the body language analysis, but that rocking back and forth and staring into the middle-distance did not look good.

    @NotMax: and her voice was too low even before she died

  162. 162.

    NotMax

    @germy

    Cannot bring myself to become incensed about the accommodations. They pre-date him and are being put to a use for which they are intended.

    Will go so far as to posit the layout and and decor are several steps above what’s found in the presidential suites of any of his hotels.

  163. 163.

    germy

    So Trump is signing a blank piece of paper in the photo they released of him?

    More empty theater.

  164. 164.

    Ken

    @Humanities Prof: Small Gods is also relatively standalone, and you can read it without knowing the rest of the series.

    IIRC, the only characters that might need some background are the Librarian and the History Monks. The only other repeating character is DEATH, and he’s pretty self-explanatory.

  165. 165.

    p.a.

    @Kay: Senator is a great gig, but Wingnut Welfare is pretty cush.  Does Lil Lindsey think he won’t qualify?  Should be a shoe-in if he stays in the closet, yes?

  167. 167.

    germy

    @NotMax:

    It’s not the the luxury, it’s the simultaneous attempt to destroy the Affordable Care Act.

    If Biden were in the same position after signing a bill expanding the ACA, public option, lower copays, etc.,  I’d say he deserves every comfort.

  171. 171.

    Ken

    @p.a.: I think after Trump loses, he’ll be lashing out in every direction but especially at any Republican Senators that have lost – he’ll be blaming them for dragging him down.  If that happens, Graham and the others might become too toxic for any network that still has to cater to the Trump cult.

  173. 173.

    Jinchi

    the first symptom of a coronavirus among the elderly is not fever, but confusion, anxiety, rage, even hallucinations

    Sure, but unless Trump has had coronavirus for the last 10 years, I don’t think those symptoms are useful for diagnosing the man.

  176. 176.

    p.a.

    @Ken: tRumpturds are all about ‘winning’.  If tRump gets someone withreal $$$ to build his network he might have staying power.  Otherwise, he might be memory-holed like the fine fascist 40% did to W.  If he survives covid, if he really has it.  So Lindsey may be in better position than donnie.  It’s donnie who’s the anchor, not the other way around.  The institutional Rethug Party survived Nixon and W.  Granted, shitmidas gonna shitmidas, but I’m afraid the Rethug Party & Lindsey will survive.

  180. 180.

    Kay

    Brian Beutler
    @brianbeutler
    37m
    Not a huge surprise that a sleazy deadbeat liar like Miller can’t grasp the concept or value of modeling good citizenship, but the notable thing is that neither can literally anyone with any influence in the conservative movement.

    That’s what I thought about when I saw the photos of the White House supreme court party. I thought about how every single student in our ordinary Ohio public high school was wearing a mask when I went in there to sign my son out early two weeks ago.

  183. 183.

    Jinchi

    @germy: presidential suite just for the commander in chief that includes an intensive care unit, a kitchen, a living room, a bedroom, & a dining room with a crystal chandelier

    I get the ICU, the kitchen, and all the rest.

    But a crystal chandelier? Who thought that was an essential item?

  184. 184.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Kelly O’Donnell @KellyO· 1h
    9am on a Sunday morning and “Born in the USA” and Lee Greenwood’s “Proud to be an American” blaring outside the hospital where the president is being treated for covid.

    when I was a wee lad there were signs up in the streets around the local hospital that said something like “Quiet: Hospital Zone”.

  185. 185.

    BR

    Anyone know if there are any reports on Biden testing negative again?  Am very worried about this and it’s been on my mind constantly.

  186. 186.

    Patricia Kayden

    @germy: Harrison did what I hope Senator Harris does during her debate with Pence. Protect yourself from these super spreaders. They don’t care but you should.

  190. 190.

    Patricia Kayden

    @germy: It makes me lol whenever Graham whines that Harrison is getting donations because people hate him. Yes we hate you, Graham.  I’ve personally hated you since the Obama administration. So what?

  191. 191.

    sdhays

    @germy: I could have sworn I saw a clip last night where he answered a challenge from Lindsey saying “who do you trust on the economy” with something like “I trust people who haven’t infected everyone with COVID”. But I can’t seem to find it, so maybe I hallucinated it.

    Last night sucked, so hallucination is definitely a possibility.

  192. 192.

    Aleta

    Three Minnesota congressmen are facing backlash over taking a commercial flight home from Washington, D.C., on Friday night just two days after they shared Air Force One with President Trump.
    U.S. Reps. Pete Stauber, Tom Emmer and Jim Hagedorn all were on the same Delta Airlines flight despite the airline’s restrictions on passengers recently exposed to COVID-19. Trump announced early Friday morning he had tested positive for the virus.
    Delta’s policy says customers who know they were exposed to the virus in the last 14 days cannot travel on the company’s aircraft. The airline defines exposure as face-to-face contact with someone carrying the virus, or sustained contact for more than 15 minutes less than six feet apart.

    …

    https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-10-03/minnesota-congressmen-flew-delta-after-flying-with-trump

  193. 193.

    NotMax

    OT. Lawdy, the movie on this week’s Noir Alley on TCM may be the dullest, most plodding noir ever.
    Otto Preminger must have been mainlining Miltown.

    @Jinchi

    Hey, got to plant the listening devices somewhere.

    :)

  195. 195.

    Jinchi

    @germy: Jaime Harrison brought his own plexiglas divider to his Senate debate with Lindsay Graham.

    That’s brilliant. I imagine debate stages usually prohibit props, but given the events of last week I doubt anyone would have dared to challenge him on this. Pretty sure Graham should be quarantining right now.

    BTW is it possible that Graham looked so physically beaten at his debate for the same reason Trump looked sweaty and unhinged last Tuesday?

  197. 197.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Aleta: Looking forward to airlines banning Republican Congress critters from all flights as a health risk. They’re such selfish mofos.

  198. 198.

    Kay

    Another good Pennsylvania poll.

    To avoid the problem of the corrupt Bill Barr and the DOJ lawyers he has corrupted (I don’t know how many but it is more than zero) we need conclusive results in a few states. We still need monster turnout. A blowout solves most of the problems with corrupt actors interfering, including the SCOTUS.

  200. 200.

    Mike in NC

    Looks as if after November 4th nobody is ever going to invite Lindsay Graham to golf with them. Sad!

  201. 201.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Splitting Image: Sympathy boost?  From what I’m reading and hearing, quite a few of us are rooting for major injuries.  Trump lacks even basic empathy for anyone not named Donald J Trump so there’s no reason for us to show him a drop of sympathy.
    He contracted COVID because of his carelessness and mishandling of this pandemic. He’s reaping what he sowed.

  202. 202.

    NotMax

    @BR

    Wouldn’t get too worked up about it. Not to say there’s no concern (and we don’t know what occurred backstage) but the nature of the camera shots make them appear much closer than they actually were.

  204. 204.

    Kay

    @Patricia Kayden:

    You would think airlines would enforce the rules just for their own self interest. They sell safety. They have to be able to tell people flying is safe. If you’re sitting next to some wingnut who refuses to follow the rules and no one enforces them that goes to the airline’s ability to keep passengers safe. I would think they would hang onto that with both hands.

  205. 205.

    Ken

    @Kay: The part about Ohio being very close is also good.  It’s generally agreed that puts Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan in the Democratic column since they trend bluer.

  209. 209.

    0.

    @Kay:

    A blowout solves most of the problems with corrupt actors interfering, including the SCOTUS.

    My not-so-fearless prediction: If there’s an obvious Biden blowout on November 3, The Traitors (Barr and Trump) will suddenly decide mail-in ballots MUST BE COUNTED (because their fellow racists/fascists/traitors “will have decided that mail-in is the only TRUE vote”). Plus, it will give them time to challenge every in-person vote, provisional vote, etc etc, in the hope of running out the clock and getting the SCOTUS Traitors to select Trump.

    Now, I don’t REALLY think that will happen, but it certainly wouldn’t surprise me if they did a 180, etc.

    Your goddamn right I’m cynical.

  211. 211.

    Ken

    @Jinchi: BTW is it possible that Graham looked so physically beaten at his debate for the same reason Trump looked sweaty and unhinged last Tuesday?

    I assume you mean covid, rather than flop sweat, or revelation of corruption and crimes, or huge loans due to the Russian mafia, or court orders to provide DNA, or fear his children are conspiring to declare him incompetent, or….

  212. 212.

    BR

    @NotMax:

    There have been outbreaks in restaurants between tables that were farther apart than that, and without one party spewing and spluttering for the whole time. It all comes down to airflow. (There’s good evidence that the 6 foot rule is useless indoors. It only applies to maskless, outdoors settings.)

  216. 216.

    germy

    @Kay:  You would think airlines would enforce the rules just for their own self interest. They sell safety.

    I saw a story on the news about a man who was removed from a plane (fortunately before takeoff) because he objected to a maskless airline steward.  The passenger was wearing a mask, but the stewardess had hers down around her chin.

  217. 217.

    Geminid

     

     

    @trollhattan: Cantor took a job with an investment bank after his loss to Dave Brat in the 2014 Republican primary, and has kept a low profile since. Dave Brat  lasted four years until Democrat Abigail Spanberger beat him in 2018. The Va 7th had been in republican hands for 48 years. Brat now teaches at Liberty University.

  222. 222.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Ken:

    The person who suggested delaying the election for a year was the woman who challenged Nancy Pelosi in 2018. The person who suggested that Trump might appoint Ivanka as his Veep and successor was a high-ranking person from an unspecified G-7 country.

  223. 223.

    SFAW

    Apparently, one of my usual stunningly witty and insightful comments got eated, so posting this as a test.

  226. 226.

    Aleta

    @Aleta:

    7/25 U.S. Rep. Pete Stauber, R-Hermantown, received the Champion for Healthy Seniors Award from the Partnership to Fight Chronic Diseases.

    7/27 Congressman Pete Stauber visits Park Rapids to talk about how the COVID-19 pandemic has affected programs serving adults with disabilities and the elderly, and what kind of help Congress can provide.

    (From his site.)

  229. 229.

    SFAW

    @(((CassandraLeo))):

    The thing about that passage that gets me is that Brutha, after all Vorbis had done to him (and others), was still a compassionate soul.

    I’m a devout atheist, but that behavior seems pretty Christ-like.

  230. 230.

    Aleta

    @SiubhanDuinne: Here

    “Ah. There really is a desert. Does everyone get this?” said Brutha.
    Wʜᴏ ᴋɴᴏᴡs?
    “And what is at the end of the desert?”
    Jᴜᴅɢᴇᴍᴇɴᴛ.
    Brutha considered this.
    “Which end?”
    Death grinned and stepped aside.
    What Brutha had thought was a rock in the sand was a hunched figure, sitting clutching its knees. It looked paralysed with fear.
    He stared.
    ‘Vorbis?’ he said.
    He looked at Death.
    ‘But Vorbis died a hundred years ago!’
    Yᴇs. Hᴇ ʜᴀᴅ ᴛᴏ ᴡᴀʟᴋ ɪᴛ ᴀʟʟ ᴀʟᴏɴᴇ. Aʟʟ ᴀʟᴏɴᴇ ᴡɪᴛʜ ʜɪᴍsᴇʟғ. Iғ ʜᴇ ᴅᴀʀᴇᴅ.
    ‘He’s been here for a hundred years?’
    Pᴏssɪʙʟʏ ɴᴏᴛ. Tɪᴍᴇ ɪs ᴅɪғғᴇʀᴇɴᴛ ʜᴇʀᴇ. Iᴛ ɪs… ᴍᴏʀᴇ ᴘᴇʀsᴏɴᴀʟ.
    ‘Ah. You mean a hundred years can pass like a few seconds?’
    A ʜᴜɴᴅʀᴇᴅ ʏᴇᴀʀs ᴄᴀɴ ᴘᴀss ʟɪᴋᴇ ɪɴғɪɴɪᴛʏ.
    The black-on-black eyes stared imploringly at Brutha, who reached out automatically, without thinking … and then hesitated.
    Hᴇ ᴡᴀs ᴀ ᴍᴜʀᴅᴇʀᴇʀ, said Death. Aɴᴅ ᴀ ᴄʀᴇᴀᴛᴏʀ ᴏғ ᴍᴜʀᴅᴇʀᴇʀs. A ᴛᴏʀᴛᴜʀᴇʀ. Wɪᴛʜᴏᴜᴛ ᴄᴏᴍᴘᴀssɪᴏɴ. Cʀᴜᴇʟ. Cᴀʟʟᴏᴜs. Cᴏᴍᴘᴀssɪᴏɴʟᴇss.
    ‘Yes. I know. He’s Vorbis,’ said Brutha. Vorbis changed people. Sometimes he changed them into dead people. But he always changed them. That was his triumph.
    He sighed.
    ‘But I’m me,’ he said.
    Vorbis stood up, uncertainly, and followed Brutha across the desert.
    Death watched them walk away.

    From  @(((CassandraLeo))): above

  234. 234.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @trollhattan:

    I would absolutely love it if it turned out that South Carolina had two black Senators simultaneously. South Carolina, of all states!

  235. 235.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    When else would a man be removed from a flight?

    Well, in one episode, Harry Bosch removed a bad guy from a plane, mid-flight.

  236. 236.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @SFAW:Apparently, one of my usual stunningly witty and insightful comments got eated, so posting this as a test.

    Witty and insightful… No wonder, the system thought it was spam.

  237. 237.

    SectionH

    @SiubhanDuinne:  Ken‘s suggestion works. I selected the white text, copied it, and then opened Notes and pasted it into a new note. Bit of a hassle, but if you’re out and about armed with just an iPhone, it’ll do.

  240. 240.

    danielx

    @ThresherK:

    Generally surprises are not one of my favorite things in life, because they’re usually unpleasant.

    However, given the month to date, October Surprises are getting to be like packages under the Christmas tree. I know it’s a small sample so far.

    eta: I hope that pastyfaced sonofabitch William Barr is sweating like lard melting in a hot skillet.

  242. 242.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Ken:

    Thanks anyhow. I tried that and it shows as white text. I can vaguely make out that it’s a slightly whiter shade of pale, but the contrast isn’t sufficient to make out the words.

  243. 243.

    Aleta

    @SiubhanDuinne:  Hard to imagine the extent of how horrible it must be to be T’s Drs and nurses at WR.  Of course they’ve trained to handle patients who’re argumentative,  aggressive, delusional, confused, defiant, resistant to all authority.  Ones who are powerful and won’t follow orders and recommendations… but put all those qualities together in one person who expects his every order to be obeyed immediately.  Whose life or death or impairment impacts the country.  Whose handlers are lying to the public about his condition.  Who flies into rages but probably can’t be restrained.  Who demands too much of their time.  Whose relatives are just as bad.

  250. 250.

    Ruckus

    @Suzanne:

    As much as I’d like to see him in prison I seriously doubt he’ll ever be in for even a day. This country seems to go out of it’s way not to hold it’s ex “leaders” responsible for anything. Maybe it’s not actually much different in most parts of the world and only in overthrown dictatorships do ex leaders suffer much indignity, like hanging from a lamppost for a while.

  251. 251.

    MattF

    Folks, for the record, the way to deal with white-on-white text is to mark it and then copy-and-paste it into the ‘leave a comment’ text box. It will appear as ordinary text.

  252. 252.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @OzarkHillbilly: Who would’ve ever guessed that sometimes, I might still qualify as an optimist?

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Yes, it’s clear that Adam Reed knows his literature. There’s all kinds of clever references to obscure literary works (what other animated show would sneak in a reference to Bartleby, the Scrivener?) and random bits of pop culture trivia. And more than a bit reminiscent of Arrested Development (probably not a coincidence, since they share several cast members).

    @SFAW: That was no doubt deliberate on Pratchett’s part. I think Pratchett himself may also have been an atheist, or at least agnostic, but the Christ-like symbolism is pretty difficult to ignore.

    Throw another recommendation on the pile for Small Gods, if my praise for the ending above wasn’t enough. It’s one of the finest, wisest works of literature I’ve ever read.

    Cēterum cēnseō factiōnem Rēpūblicānam esse dēlendam īgnī ferrōque.

  255. 255.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Ken: … as someone noted, that just means Pelosi becomes president in January, since she’d (presumably) still be speaker and we wouldn’t have a president or vice-president.

    Sorry, but nope. US Constitution, Amendment XX, Section 3 is the applicable law:

    If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

    Which could get verrrrrry interesting if the Thugs are still busily contesting the Presidential results (i.e., throwing sand into the gears of the succession) as January 3 approaches. If the Democrats will have a majority in both Houses by then, the GOP might be desperate to dicker some sort of compromise in a lame-duck session, and if Nancy SMASH! holds the House Democrats together to block them, she would be in a perfect position to hold their feet to the fire.

  256. 256.

    Kay

    @0.:

    Plus, it will give them time to challenge every in-person vote, provisional vote, etc etc, in the hope of running out the clock and getting the SCOTUS Traitors to select Trump.

    Challenges aren’t arbitrary though. They can’t just pronounce “I challenge the vote!” They know how many absentees they sent out and they know how many came back. If Biden is ahead 100k and there are 80k absentees not counted it isn’t going to change the result so they can’t just demand to hold it up.

    It’s very fact intensive and rule bound. Their ordinary low quality legal work and bullshit is going to hit a wall and that wall is called “numbers”. Math. It’s no longer about perceptions. It’s addition and subtraction. Most of the scenarios that picture Trump successfully throwing the election into chaos are like “Trump challenges…..inevitable chaos!” That isn’t how it works and it won’t be how it works here. They will need a true basis for a challenge. One that fits with addition and subtraction.

    If it were true that any losing candidate could just “challenge” results willy nilly some asshole would have come up with it well prior to these morons.

  258. 258.

    Kay

    @0.:

    The elections where conservatives have been able to either try to throw out votes or hold up calling the race have been REALLY close. That’s the condition precedent to a challenge. That matters. It’s the whole thing. So say, for example, that it’s really close in Arizona. They’re whining and suing and attempting to throw out votes. But other states are coming in and they’re not close. The math of that happening, the addition to Biden’s side and subtraction to Trumps (because Trump no longer has those electoral votes available) can and very well might make challenges moot. They can then litigate over Arizona for as long as the lawyers get paid. It doesn’t and won’t change the results of the whole race.

  259. 259.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Ken: The part about Ohio being very close is also good.  It’s generally agreed that puts Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan in the Democratic column since they trend bluer.

    You know what else puts MN, WI, and PA in the Dem column?   The polling in those states.

  260. 260.

    WaterGirl

    @NotMax:

    Cannot bring myself to become incensed about the accommodations. They pre-date him and are being put to a use for which they are intended.

    I read something last night, linked from some thread on BJ, that it was Trump’s administration that had them re-do the Presidential accommodations at Walter Reed – because of the pandemic.

    Now I don’t know whether that is true or not.  Do you know for a fact that those rooms pre-date the Trump administration?

  261. 261.

    Kay

    @0.:

    We know a lot about elections, especially in swingier states. That’s how they’re able to call them before the votes are counted. The votes that are out are not enough to change the result. These are not unknown numbers. They’ll have both of them. The votes they have counted and the possible votes for either candidate they have not counted. They have the real numbers. They now have a universe of possible votes and that won’t change no matter who gets more of them.

  263. 263.

    Kay

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I think people are using it as a check on the polling. Since WI and PA and MI are at their expected place relative to Ohio that lends credibility to the polling. That’s based on a real thing- 2016. If Trump was up 5 in Ohio in ’16 that should have been an indication that MI and PA and WI were too close for comfort and there was some kind of error operating because it didn’t make any sense that OH was so far Right relative to those other states.

  264. 264.

    Kay

    Maggie Haberman
    @maggieNYT
    NEWS – Two members of the White House residence staff tested positive for the coronavirus a few weeks ago, raising new questions about exposure around the president

    These reckless fucking assholes, I swear. The staff doesn’t have any choice. They have to wait on the low quality Trump hires or they get fired.
    With the permission of the infected people (of course) I would like media to follow their health with the same attention and concern we were all ordered to show to Chris Christie. If we can wring our hands over the elite conservative ruling class who recklessly got infected at the SCOTUS cocktail party they insisted on having we can wring our hands over other people too.

  266. 266.

    Another Scott

    @Kay: Speaking of staff…

    Not one email to their staff — many of whom I represent — about the danger.

    This callous disregard for human life would be unacceptable from the local government of a small town.

    In the seat of government of the most powerful country in the history of the world it is appalling. https://t.co/3vmRF5zlKT

    — Rep. Don Beyer (@RepDonBeyer) October 3, 2020

    It sounds like the hundreds/thousands of people who work at the White House complex don’t know anything more than we do. It’s inexcusable.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  267. 267.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Is it my imagination or does Trump’s medical team all look like they are from central casting? I am sensing more fake doctors.

  268. 268.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: I thought the space guidelines were based on thinking that droplets were the issue.  I thought now that they know the virus is airborne, then there are other issues to consider besides distance.

    Like how well ventilated is the space, where are the vents, are they blowing on you, etc.  I don’t believe that we know enough about that building to know whether that was safe or not.

  269. 269.

    Ruckus

    @Ken:

    After trump gets kicked to the curb as bad as it hopefully looks he is, what republican is going to even remember his name? They like winners, not whinny losers. We look and see their history, like in my lifetime the losers they’ve elected are stunningly bad and they don’t remember or acknowledge the history of any of them. They don’t learn from history, it’s what allows them to keep finding worse candidates every time they need a new one.

  271. 271.

    Ruckus

    @Kay:

    Planes have returned to the gate and disembarked people who refuse. Pisses off everyone else because it makes them late, miss connections, dinner, etc. But the shithead usually gets a standing boo from them.

  272. 272.

    James E Powell

    @hueyplong:

    Agree with your assessment, but I have no idea how it looks and sounds to SC voters. It is, after all, the original confederate state.

    It got me wondering. Have any Democrats ever done as badly as Trump and Graham did this week? I couldn’t think of any.

  274. 274.

    theturtlemoves

    It likely goes without saying, based on the ‘nym I have chosen for myself, that I also highly recommend Small Gods.

  276. 276.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @James E Powell:

    Because of my job, I started following him in 1994. And during his first two terms in the House, he was on the International Relations Committee, so we had a fair amount of interaction with his office. I never met him, but I’m pretty sure I set up meetings for my Consul General with Graham and his senior staffers in his SC state offices (the Canadian Embassy handled relations on the Hill).

  277. 277.

    Jinchi

    @WaterGirl: that it was Trump’s administration that had them re-do the Presidential accommodations at Walter Reed

    Aha! That explains the chandelier. Who else would put such a useless decoration in an emergency health facility.

    (Any word on whether the toilets are gold-plated?”)

  281. 281.

    H-Bob

    @Kay: A Justice Reveal Party caused Covid to spread like wildfire through the Republican elite, when a gender reveal party caused actual wildfire to spread through California!

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