Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

No one could have predicted…

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

It’s a doggy dog world.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Not all heroes wear capes.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

No Justins, No Peace

Trump makes a mockery of the legal system and cowardly judges just sit back and let him.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

“Just close your eyes and kiss the girl and go where the tilt-a-whirl takes you.” ~OzarkHillbilly

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

We won’t go back.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

I am pretty sure Katy Tur wasn’t always such a bootlicking sycophant.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” is supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

You are here: Home / Politics / America / Vice Presidential Debate Open Thread Part II

Vice Presidential Debate Open Thread Part II

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Vice President Pence does not look well, nor does he sound well. He’s sweating, he seems to have something funky going on with one of his eyes, and his voice is scratchy. Senator Harris isn’t having any of his “butter won’t melt in my mouth” BS.

This look pretty much sums things up.

Vice Presidential Debate Open Thread Part II

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

368Comments

  1. 1.

    lamh36

    @gregoryawilson

    ·
    56s

    She’s in total command of this debate, and Pence is doing nothing but watching as the boulder of the fading Republican campaign rolls even further down the hill. Excellent performance by Harris on all levels so far.

    Repost

  2. 2.

    Melusine

    Love that she isn’t afraid to give her words space and time to land. Pence just vomits out word salad.

  6. 6.

    dmsilev

    “It’s about relationships”. This was a brutal answer. I await Pence’s lies in response.

  7. 7.

    A Good Woman

    I thought I posted this below, but will put it here. I am following on Twitter.

    Susan Page is a GOP Toadie and even less useful than Wallace. Pence is smarmy but not a toddler.

    Pence is as useful as tits on a boar hog, and believes in mansplaining. He needs to SHUT UP!

  9. 9.

    JWR

    Kamala just let go a stemwinder on Americas role in the world, leaving Mikey staring off into space.

    Also too, Susan Page is awful.

  16. 16.

    Adam L Silverman

    This look says “I’m taking off my sandal/chancla/shoe and it is coming not for your head, but for your very soul!!!!”

    Image

  24. 24.

    Leto

    HE’S NOT GOING TO TAKE THE FUCKING 15 SEC SO STOP OFFERING THEM TO HIM! Your shithead spawn don’t fucking count you fucking soul-less sock puppet.

    Goddamned, 1 hour in and she’s now doing the Wallace, “Your campaign agreed to the rules” bullshit. GAH!

  25. 25.

    Elizabelle

    And Pence helps himself to more time.  So he can lie about Trump’s respect for the troops.

    CUT HIS FUCKING MIC, Susan Tool Page.

  33. 33.

    mad citizen

    Dense totally dodging his religious nutjob views.  They are craven fucks.  Oh the Christian martyr bullshit.

  41. 41.

    Elizabelle

    Pence passes on Roe v Wade to get back to defending Trump.  And Page served that up very specifically, since a USSC decision would affect Indiana.

    Now he gets to the question.  He likes ACB.  And her sizeable family.  Not one word about abortion.  He’s eluding the whole issue.  Talking about Christian faith.

    Pence is so oily.

  43. 43.

    sdhays

    I think Dense barrelling on through his time constraints once or twice when he thinks he’s on really solid ground could possibly be somewhat effective. But it’s just douchy and kind of pathetic when that’s what he does every single time.

    And Susan Page should not let him get away with it every single time.

  44. 44.

    Kay

    @Searcher:

    He doesn’t look well but it could just be the stress of being in that horrible work environment. I myself don’t believe the test results he announces and I don’t know why anyone would believe any of them at this point.

  52. 52.

    Melusine

    Page reminds me of a line from “The Women”:

     

    She’s about as useful as a diamond-plated douchebag.

  57. 57.

    lamh36

    How well is Kamala doing, the only thing folks like Megan Kelly or even Axelrock rock can try to comment on is facial expression.

     

    She’s killing it

  62. 62.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Melusine:

    She’s about as useful as a diamond-plated douchebag.

    Was it Rosalind Russell or Marjorie Main who delivered that line?

  66. 66.

    Yutsano

    Kamala strong on the right to choose. Now bringing up the ACA because, well, she answered the question about abortion succinctly.

  70. 70.

    Elizabelle

    Now Pence wraps himself in the sanctity of human life.

    Late term abortion!  Joe and Kamala will snatch that baby right up to the minute of birth.

    Now he’s whinging about possibly packing the Court.

    Good.  Don’t take the bait, Kamala.

    And fuck Pence for lecturing about not playing by the rules.

  71. 71.

    lamh36

    Kamala Harris: “Joe Biden and I are both people of faith and it’s insulting to suggest that we would knock anyone for their faith.”

  72. 72.

    Ruckus

    @Searcher:

    I think he will be hospitalized before he’ll have a chance to be tested. The WH is a virus factory right now and dense looks to be one of it’s latest toys. Either that or he really, really has a problem with women. And could be both.

  76. 76.

    Leto

    “If somehow you win this election” motherfucker…

    Kamala laying out a history lesson. Court’s in session!

  79. 79.

    Delia

    I’m getting sick of how Mike ignores whatever question is asked and pontificates on whatever is bothering him.

  80. 80.

    Elizabelle

    Pence is just trying to get the existing Trump supporters to turn out.  That sanctity of life whistling and whinging about packing the court was for them.

    Not gonna be enough.

  82. 82.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Kay: Or it could be there is a coverup of things being worse than previously known in the White House.

  84. 84.

    The Moar You Know

    Pence is obviously ill.  They need to stop this debate nonsense now.  No more.  They’re trying to kill our candidates.

  86. 86.

    patroclus

    Pence’s strategy of going over time constantly, lying incessantly and repeating his talking points ad nauseum worked well at the beginning of the debate, but Kamala is clearly dominating the last part of it.  Especially on the military questions, the choice issue and on foreign policy.

  87. 87.

    Jeffro

    @Kay: always, always, always trying to have it both ways.

    Pick a position, any position at all, GOP.  Stand by it publicly and loudly and see what happens.  They are literally in the minority of what the American public wants for. Every. Issue.

  89. 89.

    Japa21

    Seems to me, based on the comments here, that Kamala is too prepared. That can hurt her and Joe as well.  At least I am sure Chuckles would say so.

  91. 91.

    Kay

    Dave Weigel, Re-Animator
    @daveweigel
    ·4m
    It was notable when Trump said Roe wasn’t “on the ballot” in the last debate, but Mike Pence – Mike Pence! – punting on a question about whether he’d want Indiana to ban abortion is something.

    It really is remarkable. They’re the dog that caught the car with their far Right justice. The plan seems to be to promote her to the base and lie to everyone else. Like we won’t notice.

  95. 95.

    Jeffro

    @The Moar You Know: I have to believe (hope?) that after tonight, Biden & Co will pull the plug on debates 2 and 3.

    genuine thoughts and prayers here for Kamala, having to sit in the same room as #PinkEyePence for 90 minutes.  Ugh

  98. 98.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @mad citizen: Dominionists are utter wackaloons.  They do not belong in this country.  They should migrate to Russia, Iran, or Saudi Arabia.

  100. 100.

    Melusine

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It was cut from the movie, but did appear in the stage show. PBS showed a version with Rue McClanahan as the Countess. The line was spoken by the Marjorie Main character.

    Isaac Mizrahi did the costumes and they had a 1940’s lingerie curtain call.

    But no one could replace Rosalind Russell in that role.

  101. 101.

    Elizabelle

    Good that Kamala did not take the bait on packing, but pointed out no African American judicial nominees.  (Is that what I heard?)

    One of these candidates lives in the real world.  The other is just smarmily shameless.

    First I heard that Breonna Taylor wanted to become a nurse.

  102. 102.

    Kay

    @Jeffro:

    This to me is different though. These people have been scolding Americans on abortion cycle after cycle, for decades. They finally have their far Right majority and the plan is to DENY they ever said any of it.

  103. 103.

    lamh36

    Let’s talk about packing the courts.

     Of the 50+ judges they pushed through the courst… “Not one of them was Black” 

    let’s talk about packing the courts

     

    DRAGGG HIM KAM!!!

  104. 104.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @MomSense: I’m not a doctor, and I haven’t heard this, but…

    Steve Schmidt @SteveSchmidtSES 20m
    Conjunctivitis is a Covid symptom. #covideye

  106. 106.

    Elizabelle

    @Betty:   I am regretting I don’t have a Post It within arm’s length.  Was gonna block off Pence’s lying and shaking his head face.

  107. 107.

    Steeplejack

    Despite my rage reaching apoplectic levels, I think this debate is a win for Harris. She has done a good job, and I think that Pence has pissed off every woman in America who’s not a diehard MAGAt. And Susan Page is joining Chris Wallace in the moderator hall of shame.

    Serenity now.

    “Do you have to yell it?”

    “The book wasn’t specific.”

  108. 108.

    Kent

    I think Democrats should answer the SCOTUS question by pointing out that EVERY SINGLE justice appointed by every single president going back centuries was confirmed by a bipartisan 60+ vote majority.   It was only under Trump that the GOP changed their own rules to ram through right wing justices on a simple majority vote rather than upholding the bipartisan tradition of finding nominees that could gain the support of both sides.

    They are the ones packing the court by changing the rules to ram through extremists.

  110. 110.

    Morzer

    I am starting to develop a theory that Mike Pence’s Ferengi genes are slowly rejecting the human material that was implanted into him.

  119. 119.

    danielx

    @Ruckus:

    I think he will be hospitalized before he’ll have a chance to be tested. The WH is a virus factory right now and dense looks to be one of it’s latest toys. Either that or he really, really has a problem with women. And could be both.

    That would be door #1 and door #2, particularly #2. Because he definitely has a problem with women. Can’t be alone with one other than Mother, because the Whore of Babylon’s devilish influence might override his control of his Holy Member.

    And yes, they really do think that way.

  120. 120.

    John S.

    This debate changes nothing. The 40% of Trump dead enders think this debate is a win for them, and everyone else sees a shameless liar.

    And Susan Page is fucking awful. She literally lets Pence do whatever he wants and go over time and not answer a single question, and then turns around and tries to make an example of Harris.

  124. 124.

    Yutsano

    Dense is sputtering. He can’t answer the question. So now he has to bring up rioting.

    EDIT: Gotta say I love how Kamala just bullied over Page like Dense is.

    THAT FLY IS STILL THERE!!!

  127. 127.

    Elizabelle

    @Steeplejack:   Yes.  Kamala has been excellent.

    Pence is mansplaining.  Now he’s hiding behind the thin blue line, none of whom are racist, he will have you know.

  141. 141.

    Elizabelle

    He’s filibustering again.

    “I will not sit here and be lectured by the VP on how to enforce the laws of our country.”

  143. 143.

    Eljai

    Wonder what Pence is writing on his notepad – “she’s kicking my ass — help me Jeebus!”?

  144. 144.

    lamh36

    Dude you got a dead fly on your head. that’s the OPTICS that gonna stick. Like my friend @JazzySDH flies land on shit…LOL

  145. 145.

    Llelldorin

    Why did Pence think the visual of the Whitest Man on Earth lecturing Harris on the nonexistence of racism would go well for him? (I mean, even apart from the fly.)

  148. 148.

    Elizabelle

    Bringing up white supremacism.  Stand back and stand by.

    Mexicans as rapists and criminals. … remind us of all of Trump’s greatest hits, please.

  149. 149.

    Amir Khalid

    I long to hear: “Mr Vice-President, your time is up and I’m cutting off your microphone.”

  154. 154.

    Martin

    Ok, I checked back in, only to see a fly stuck to Pences head. How long has that been there?

    Not surprising given shit for brains.

  155. 155.

    Keith P.

    My two cents on court packing – leave the possibility open as bargaining leverage.  Either Clarence Thomas retires, accenting to being replaced by a liberal justice, or the court gets bigger.

  157. 157.

    Peale

    So what happened to Trump’s live address to the nation that was supposed to stomp on this event?

  161. 161.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Kay: It was always a scam. The white evangelicals cared about reinstating segregation, especially in education, by finding a way around Brown V Board of Education not banning abortion. They’d also like to get rid of Loving V Virginia if they can. But they adopted abortion to do two things. The first was to rope in traditionalist Catholics to expand their coalition and abortion was the key to doing that. The second was to get around the very real problem of campaigning to reinstate segregation in education, housing, marriage, etc.

    Every time a Republican president since Reagan has appointed a justice to the Supreme Court the Republicans, the white evangelical leadership, the leadership of the major pro-life groups all say the same thing: we need just one more Supreme Court appointment to outlaw abortion, so send us more money and reelect us. They know if they ever actually deliver then they lose these single issue voters and that’s a major issue for them.

  163. 163.

    Elizabelle

    Pence does not believe any of Harris’s statements.  They are published, actually.  There is a record.

    Pence now blaming the media.  And have you noticed how he always thanks Tool Page for the question? Like it’s a personal gift, to him.

  164. 164.

    Morzer

    Pence thinks that attacking the media is going to somehow get him and Trump off the hook on the racism issue.  He’s just crazy.

  167. 167.

    Eljai

    Oh now Pence is interested in criminal justice reform.  I thought he just said he trusted the system.

  168. 168.

    Kay

    @Elizabelle:

    I guess the entire Right wing are now going to deny a central issue in their ideological approach, one they told us was non negotiable and utterly central to their belief system. They’re going to coyly dodge it and lie about it and no one can even ask, because to even ask is to attack their “faith”.

  169. 169.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    where’s Furio from The Sopranos when we need him?

    You got a fly on your head

  180. 180.

    lamh36

    Yes… Kam!

    Stand ya azz down Susan…ya letting Pence go over his time, I’m gonna finish wtf I was saying

  183. 183.

    trnc

    Page: “What will you do, Sen Harris, when you win and DT refuses to leave?” That’s going to be on a loop on Fox.

  187. 187.

    Ivan X

    That question of “what will you do if Trump doesn’t concede”? What kind of idiot question is that? Any answer doesn’t say anything about the candidate’s character or positions.

  188. 188.

    Ken

    @Peale: So what happened to Trump’s live address to the nation that was supposed to stomp on this event?

    They had trouble rigging the cables to make his mouth move.   They’re going to try to do it with CGI for tomorrow evening.

  189. 189.

    Kay

    Jonathan Karl
    @jonkarl
    ·9m
    The question of expanding the Supreme Court is a legitimate one — both those who favor the move and who oppose it deserve an answer on where Biden/Harris stand.

    It may be a legitimate question but no normie voter gives a shit about it. I don’t think most people have any clear idea on what it means, or why they should care.

  190. 190.

    LeftCoastYankee

    One of the symptoms of Covid is confusion, and both ends of the Dump/Dense ticket managed to catch it right before attempting to debate, and it’s not really obvious from what they say.  Confused Bullshit is no better or worse than calculated bullshit.

    Coming up for Pence, his turn for Stupid on Steroids….

  191. 191.

    lamh36

    @johnvmoore

    ·
    1m

    Susan Page is letting the white male talk over the Black woman,
    @SusanPage
    is enforcing the rules on a Black woman while letting the white male get away with what he wants. Susan Page upholds the white supremacist patriarchy. #VPDebate

    Let me tell ya, that THIS is not getting lost by ALOT of people.  And Black folk are taking ntoce of it

  198. 198.

    Leto

    “Rebuild our military” name 1 thing you slimy fuck. Oh, bring out the conspiracy theories. Drink!

  202. 202.

    chopper

    @Baud:

    outside of a few famous zingers/gaffes, when has one ever?

    im watching bit of it cause i love harris and hate pence, that’s about all

  206. 206.

    Leto

    I hope Kamala drags him for bringing up the Russian generated conspiracy theory that Ron Covid Johnson helped launder through his senate committee. Oh, not going to get a chance to do that… fuckers.

  208. 208.

    Martin

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah, I don’t think GOP leadership wants abortion banned. It’s too good of a wedge issue for them. They want to constantly dangle it.

    That said, if Dems sweep and eliminate the filibuster, just pass a law reiterating RvW. Dems are never going to win Alabama anyway.

  209. 209.

    Elizabelle

    Pence is a grievance queen. “Overturning the results of the last election.”

    That reminds us:  get rid of the Electoral College.

    And he brings up Hillary Clinton.

  211. 211.

    scott (the other one)

    For future debates, when the speaker goes over time, the mic should get 10% quieter every second, so that it’s fully off after 10 seconds. (I realize that’s not quite how the actual math works, but you know what I mean.)

  215. 215.

    Elizabelle

    Scolding on civility from a college kid.

    Learn up, girl.

    — ETA:  Wait?  She’s 8?  OK, that explains the level of comprehension.

  216. 216.

    Juju

    I let the dogs out and I missed the fly!!’  Darn.

    The Republicans can’t call their party the party of life after letting 210,000 and counting people die.

    Susan Page sucks donkey whatevers.

  217. 217.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    That fucking smarmy bullshit is a waste of fucking time. How DARE Page waste their time with this childishness.

  219. 219.

    mad citizen

    At least Page didn’t ask each to say something nice about each other

    Yes.  Terrible question.  Answer is we need to investigate how traitorous the Republicans are before we move forward as Americans.

  222. 222.

    sdhays

    @PJ: Better than that question in 2016 where they asked Hillary and Dump to say something nice about the other. But not much.

  226. 226.

    Peale

    @Martin: They’ll cave. There are unfortunately plenty of nutter busybodies who want to harass pregnant women who miscarried. They’ll find plenty of volunteers for their local single mother harassment committees as well. Maybe not in the Democratic cities, but certainly, there’s plenty with nothing else better to do.

  228. 228.

    scott (the other one)

    @Adam L Silverman: It hasn’t gotten a lot of play yet, but the pop issues an encyclical which seems to say that according to the Catholic church the death penalty is as serious a sin as abortion, and that it’s no longer a matter of opinion but faith that the death penalty is wrong and must be fought against. This is going to make things very difficult for conservative Catholics and could be a serious wedge, the way abortion was used back in the late 70s (only in reverse).

  231. 231.

    Ruckus

    One thing this is doing is making the ActBlue counter go nuts. Adding 10K/every 1 to 3 seconds. It’s gone up over 2 million since the “debate” started.

  232. 232.

    zhena gogolia

    I have it muted most of the time, but it looks from my clicking on it that Pence has gotten about twice as much time to speak as Harris.

  234. 234.

    Yutsano

    I think Dense just broke. He’s babbling like mad now.

    TAKE THE DAMN NAME OF RUTH BADER GINSBURG OUT OF YOUR FOOL DAMN MOUTH!!!

  236. 236.

    Lacuna Synechdoche

    @sdhays:

    I think Dense barrelling on through his time constraints once or twice when he thinks he’s on really solid ground could possibly be somewhat effective. But it’s just douchy and kind of pathetic when that’s what he does every single time.

    The thing is, Pence hasn’t felt solid ground for at least 4 years. So he’s really not in position to recognize it if he were.

    But, if it makes you feel any better, he hasn’t had a moment on solid ground for the entire debate either. So there was never any chance of him being effective.

  240. 240.

    Steeplejack

    Okay, I turned the sound back on, and Harris is making a great summation about Biden.

    . . . Glad she got the last word.

  244. 244.

    Martin

    Is it possible a maggot crawled out of Pences eye and matured into a fly right on top of his head? Because that would clear up a  lot of things.

  249. 249.

    Brachiator

    @patroclus:

    Pence’s strategy of going over time constantly, lying incessantly and repeating his talking points ad nauseum worked well at the beginning of the debate, but Kamala is clearly dominating the last part of it.

    Good point. It appears that the Republicans have decided that rudeness and “domination” of their opponent is the way to go.

  250. 250.

    PJ

    @sdhays: I wish they’d ask that question now, because if they did Biden or Harris should just spend five minutes up there contorting their faces: “That’s a puzzler, I’m searching and I just can find anything good about this man.  Really.  Sorry.”

  253. 253.

    Adam L Silverman

    @NotMax: I’m aware. But the real two gets for white evangelicals, specifically the leadership, has always been Brown and Loving. They really don’t care about Roe or Griswold. But they’ve indoctrinated their congregants to care about them because they 1) need to stay partnered with traditionalist Catholics and 2) they can’t say they want to reinstate segregation and reoutlaw interracial and interethnic and inter-religious marriages.

  255. 255.

    Melusine

    Kamala’s expressions are every woman who had to refrain from throat-punching a man-splaining shitgibbon – or god forbid raising her voice, or not smiling. ???

  257. 257.

    randy khan

    Not watching, as is my custom.  (Saw a live-streamed Suzanne Vega concert instead, and I know I’m much happier as a result.)  But I think I will have to look for the fly, which is such a perfect metaphor for this administration.

    By the way, Pence is not violating the rules when he doesn’t answer the question.  He’s being a monumental jerk, but that’s also not against the rules.  (And remember that Biden’s best moment in the debate last century, uh, I mean last week, came when he specifically said he wasn’t answering a question about expanding the Supreme Court.)

  258. 258.

    Steeplejack

    Okay, over to MSNBC for the sweet balm of Rachel, Nicolle and Joy.

    . . . Oh, fuck, no. Brian Williams. ? Okay, wait, he was just doing the intro to the trio. Whew.

  259. 259.

    lamh36

    Real talk, Kamala Harris triggers some white women and it’s showing up in lotsa comments (not here on BJ, but on SM) masked as “constructive” criticism…it’s also in Susan Page’s “thank you Mr VP” while Pence is disobeying the rules…while she instructs Kamala to follow them…smh.

    Winner: Kamala Harris and that fly on Pence’s head

    Loser: Pence

  271. 271.

    Morzer

    I really do think Kamala Harris has grown as a politician. Her primary campaign was not impressive, but she looked poised, effective and ready to be a president tonight.

  275. 275.

    Benw

    Mike is awful (and sick)

    Kamala is awesome

    The Dodgers are whumping the Padres

    The universe continues on its majestic dance…

  277. 277.

    Leto

    @Adam L Silverman: Loving is the one I don’t understand, especially concerning Thomas. It was outlawed via the Supreme Court, but LGBTQ was overreach. Idk. I stopped trying to think about that tortured logic. It’s too dumb.

  279. 279.

    trnc

    I don’t have a problem with the 8th grader question. Good chance for Kamala to point out that Joe actually did work with republicans before, although I wish she had said before they started shitting on every norm and process.

  283. 283.

    Elizabelle

    @zhena gogolia:   Yes.  And Kamala got better and tighter at it, throughout.

    Pence threw out his red meat in an attempt to keep the rightwing base and placate his addled and diseased boss.

  285. 285.

    Bill Arnold

    So, what’s the consensus: did that fly lay eggs?

    Flies are not normally attracted to white. But they are attracted to, well, shit.

  289. 289.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    Of course they don’t. It’s an eye-glazing discussion. I mean, “pack the court” is catchy and it sounds vaguely bad but these are the same “undecided” voters who were absolutely shocked that Donald Trump is an insane asshole- a fact they apparently just learned when he went crazy at the last debate.

  291. 291.

    Central Planning

    Lol, my 19 year old had no idea Pence calls his wife “mother.” She wishes she had that last 30 seconds back so she wouldn’t have to know that.

  294. 294.

    jimmiraybob

    When a fly bothered Obama during a TV interview didn’t the proto-Trumer loony bin declare him to be a demon?

  296. 296.

    JWR

    and Lester Holt wrapped it all up by saying “we’ve just watched the first and only VP date”.

  298. 298.

    Leto

    @Suzanne: There’s at least 3 accounts, with more dropping soon.

    Joy Reid pointing out what a number of women have here said: Pence just talking over the women is what sooooo many women have experienced and that it was a problem.

  303. 303.

    Elizabelle

    Nicolle Wallace carving Pence a new one.  Pointing out that he himself wouldn’t answer questions.

  308. 308.

    JWR

    @jimmiraybob: When a fly bothered Obama during a TV interview…

    I remember during one interaction where Obama was watchig a fly in the room, and he snatched it in midair! It was awesome.

  311. 311.

    Uncle Jeffy

    If the next debate fails to have a microphone cutoff to halt the time overruns and interruptions of Trump, it will be a waste of time

  313. 313.

    Brachiator

    @Martin:

    Yeah, I don’t think GOP leadership wants abortion banned. It’s too good of a wedge issue for them.

    The Republicans have made abortion extremely difficult, if not outright impossible, for many women in red states.  Repealing Roe is almost unnecessary, but would be symbolically important. And it would free conservative states to enact more extreme laws relating to abortion.

    The Court would next go after birth control and otherwise intrude into the lives of women and families.

  314. 314.

    scott (the other one)

    @khead: I mean, it’s not an inherently bizarre take–that IS one of the debating techniques which is often very effective. But it’s a staggeringly stupid thing for a member of the press to say, since it rewards candidates for bad behavior.

    Which is to say: your mainstream media 2020, ladies and germs.

  321. 321.

    Kay

    lisa mirando
    @LisaMirandoCNN
    ·2h
    From #CNN’s Chief White House Correspondent
    @Acosta
    : Two people in contact w/Trump say they have seen him have some trouble breathing since returning from Walter Reed. One Trump adviser cautions it’s not serious. But says it has been noticeable.

    I don’t really blame them- they don’t have proof he’s sick but it was obvious to anyone watching his White House stunt that he was having trouble breathing. I just don’t want to play along anymore. They pumped him full of drugs and that’s how he’s functioning for those Soviet-style propaganda videos. That’s what’s going on here.

  323. 323.

    NotMax

    Oh my. Joy Reid’s dress is an exact replica of the design on the framing around the ATM at one of the local banks.

  329. 329.

    zhena gogolia

    Let me sum things up: Kamala Harris is here to meet the moment and move America forward, and Mike Pence is here to put a shiny coat of gold-colored spray paint on Donald Trump’s many piles of shit.#VPDebate— Jon Zal (@OfficialJonZal) October 8, 2020

  330. 330.

    James E Powell

    @khead:

    Norah O’Donnell is a Village courtier. Whatever Republicans do is clever and savvy, while Democrats are extremist and shrill.

  333. 333.

    Mary G

    @Leto: I noticed that, too. Some Leona Helmsley “rules are for the little people” action again. Can’t they read a poll?

  337. 337.

    Mary G

    Nancy SMASH sticks in the shiv:

    Thank you @KamalaHarris for making the case for ACA & against Trump assault on pre-existing conditions benefit in the middle of a pandemic. Tonight, Harris declared Trump/Pence total failures in the fight against COVID. America deserves Biden. Bravo Kamala, Poor Pence! -NP— Nancy Pelosi (@TeamPelosi) October 8, 2020

  338. 338.

    Baud

    To the extent that there was any substantive takeaway from this, it’s that Kamala explained that Trump wants to take away the ACA and Pence had no real response to offer.

    Now, back to the fly.

  340. 340.

    TS (the original)

    I agree with Clare McCaskill on MSNBC – Kamala smiles – she has a wonderful personality and it showed through the debate. As with the Obamas – she has a natural inclination to smile. Pence & Trump 100% the opposite.

  344. 344.

    NotMax

    Pence totally came across as the kid who pesters the teacher that he/she forgot to assign homework.

  350. 350.

    Leto

    @TS (the original): Trumpov, and everyone within a solar system’s orbit around them, are just ugly, ugly people on the inside. And it projects out. They don’t know joy. They don’t know life. They don’t know soul. Joe and Kamala project that at every turn. You know that if you told them a dumb joke, they’d laugh. And if it was a belly buster, they’d laugh from deep down.

  356. 356.

    dmsilev

    @Kay: So, basically their only strategy is to say everything is fine while hoping that Trump recovers enough by next week that they can roll him out onto the debate stage without everyone else running away shrieking ‘unclean!’

  357. 357.

    mad citizen

    @khead: Yes, I saw that awful Norah O Donnell take too.  I tweeted them.  It was right after they were talking about how people need to hear about the issues.  Then they had Reince Priebus on and he mispronounced Kamala.  Fucker.  Tweeted him too.

  359. 359.

    J R in WV

    I didn’t watch, but I heard the moderator pleading with Pence to follow the rules, pointlessly. He nor Trump have any concept of following any rules.

    Wife did watch, said Pence had a bug on his head for much of the debate, right on top of the silver hair. No surprise, I said, we all know what bugs are drawn to. Wife said what’s that — Shit I said.

    I hope he is coming down with the White House Plague… if that makes me a bad person, good.

  360. 360.

    JWR

    @TS (the original): Clare McCaskill on MSNBC – Kamala smiles – she has a wonderful personality and it showed through the debate

    PBS had a female reporter from the Washington Free Beacon say that Harris maybe not realizing she was on split-screen and she was making all these weird faces!

    They’re called SMILES, honeybun. Look it up..

  361. 361.

    Misterpuff

    I am the great and all powerful (and extremely healthy) Don.

    Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

  362. 362.

    Brachiator

    @Baud:

    People who are already fans of Harris and Pence will like their performances.  That’s about it, I think.

    Harris also knew that she had to introduce herself to some voters who don’t know much about her, or who only knew the right wing spin. And she needed to counter the lie that she is a fiery leftist radical just waiting to unleash commie leftist cooties on God Bless the U.S.A.

    I think she did well here.

  366. 366.

    Grover Gardner

    I thought she did great. Won’t change any votes, IMO, but she did a fine job and Pence looked evasive and smarmy. And that fly!! Like Nixon sweating profusely.

  367. 367.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    @Suzanne: Sorry, pet peeve. You abort *PREGNANCIES* – or, more generally, processes (including, e.g., missions).

    You don’t abort, for example, “fetuses.”

    It’s a pet peeve because I feel it is an implicit trap – it equates the ending of a process (for health or other reasons) implicitly with death. And, sure, there’s a distinct entity that is going to die as a result of almost all abortions (remember: PROCESS! A dying or dead fetus is also removed as a result of an abortion), that’s focusing on the wrong issue.

    At 12 weeks, a fetus is about as big as my thumb (or maybe, both thumbs put together). Unlike President Puny, I have decent sized fingers, and my thumbs-up actually points, you know, *up*. If all that remained of your brain was that size, you’d be in a persistent vegetative state, *if* that was enough brain tissue to sustain even *that* much. We could imagine that you can’t stuff personhood into a space that small. And that’s *precisely* why banning first trimester abortions is a travesty. That’s the state taking one of the most personal of choices, and decreeing they know better, even though all but the most hardheaded can at least *imagine* feeling differently. It might be based on secular dogma instead of religious, but that’s no better than a state religion.

    You can haggle back and forth in the next two trimesters, and you can worry over what *really* counts as “health” for a pregnant woman, and yeah, it always hurts heart and brain more, the further in the pregnancy it occurs.

    But I believe the key thing is the process, and only the biggest liars (possibly, lying to themselves first and foremost) would argue that it’s clearly and objectively wrong to abort/terminate the process at its earliest stages.

    (Oh: the other reason it’s a pet peeve is, anything that prevents a fertilized egg from implanting *can’t* cause “an abortion.” I don’t know of any forms of birth control that work that way; Plan B, for example, can’t work that way – the timing is all wrong, there’s no way it could prevent a viable egg from implanting.)

  368. 368.

    luc

    Nobody did great in this “debate”.  To me, it is not a debate and unconvincing, if nobody even attempts to answer questions of the moderator or to reply to the opponent.

    90% of the time both blathered (unrelated) talking points. The format is broken and useless.

    Why are the democrats so scared to present plans, visions, birds-eye view explanations? They come across like they (also) don’t have a plan.

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