Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

White supremacy is terrorism.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

I was promised a recession.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Biden-Harris 2020 / Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Praying for Joe Biden

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Praying for Joe Biden

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Were it up to me, I’d keep Biden well away from the Oval Office Plague Vector — several hundred miles away, at the least. (I’m not crazy that Kamala Harris is still supposed to debate Mike Dense tonight, either, but at least we can be pretty sure Pence isn’t yet infected, if only because he’s not usually allowed anywhere near his Dear Leader.)…

This is good, and rather sweet — Robin Givhan, at the Washington Post, on “Joe Biden’s campaign, summed up in one simple gesture”:

Former vice president Joe Biden was standing on the tarmac Monday chatting with reporters at New Castle County Airport before boarding his campaign plane for Miami. Biden was wearing a mask and so were the journalists, but the plane’s engine was whirring and as he was answering questions about whether he would participate in the upcoming scheduled debate, he began to drift from socially distanced range into normal speaking range. And so, with no fanfare but unmistakable firmness, Jill Biden approached her husband from behind, reminded him of proper spacing and physically moved him several paces back.

Biden apologized for his spatial indiscretion and then carried on with his thoughts about the importance of following the science in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic.

An entire campaign was summed up in that simple gesture — and by Biden’s response to it…

Biden has not been perfect in his masking and distancing. He’s tugged his mask down during conversations to be clearly understood. And, he’s leaned in a little too far when others have spoken to him. But he has made the effort to be mindful and cautious while his opponent has not only refused to try but has chest-thumped about that refusal.

After his wife stepped in to pull him back into safer territory, Biden said, “I’m sorry.” His words could be read as a statement of regret to the assembled reporters for violating the new rules of social engagement, for perhaps, putting them at risk. But even more, his apology recognized the concerns of his wife. It acknowledged that a small act can have enormous consequences — not just for him but for others as well. His words made clear that he understood that no matter how VIP he might be, he is not an island. And sometimes, causing someone to worry can be as agonizing for them as any physical pain…

In that consequential moment, Biden is flanked by security in their blue suits and their tie clips. They’re standing on alert, but it’s Jill Biden who steps in. She’s the one standing guard against this new threat that may or may not be present, that can’t be sniffed out by a K-9 team or revealed with a metal detector. There’s intimacy in her gesture, which happens so publicly but is shared by only two people. It is a particular sort of public display of affection. And it is a reminder that even within the candidate’s protective bubble there’s an even more secure space…

And keep in mind:

Reader Interactions

240Comments

  1. 1.

    debbie

    Joe ads are in heavy rotation here (three during the 11pm news [two different local channels] and one at about 6 am). They’re good, they’re positive, and there’s no counterattack from Trump. What’s not to like?

  6. 6.

    Baud

    One thing that’s nice about Joe’s campaign is that he’s still respecting the campaign process and continuing to make his case to voters, notwithstanding his huge polling lead.  I think voters respect that.

  8. 8.

    Geminid

    Last year Biden seemed tentative. With good reason; he was one of several good candidates, and he lacked the self regard to say, like O’Rourke, “I was born to do this.” But he has really grown into the role of Democratic nominee, and now is hitting on all eight cylinders. As a Democrat, I find this very heartening. And as someone just a little over a decade younger than Biden, I find it heartening to be reminded that people can still grow at any age.

  10. 10.

    Baud

    @Geminid:

    He really has, and there were many challenges that could have led to significant missteps by any candidate.  It’s been impressive to watch.

  11. 11.

    Kay

    Caitlin Dickerson
    @itscaitlinhd
    ·8h
    First,
    @DHSgov
    said mass-separations weren’t happening (they said the documents my sources provided were fake). Then they said separations were an unintended consequence, when in fact they were always the point. Years later, the IG confirms, again, the truth. Read for yourself.

    Besides the fact that they cooked up a deliberate policy of separating parents from children, they then all lied about it, repeatedly. I think there should be consequences for the people who either participated in the deliberate deception or didn’t report it when it was happening. This is not just a few bad apples. A lot of people at both DOJ and DHS had to be involved in the lying and the coverup. It doesn’t really matter that the coverup didn’t work because these were obvious lies that could be documented and was exposed by reporters – they all still lied.

  14. 14.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    Yes to prosecutions. Do we know if all families were reunited or whether children were adopted out and lost to their families forever? There’s been zero follow-up around here.

  19. 19.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Spent the day in horse and buggy country yesterday. Scattered among the fields were plenty of trump signs (a huge “FARMERS FOR TRUMP” in a field of unsellable soybeans) and flags but more than a few Biden signs too. Kinda heartening to see.

  20. 20.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    I think the “adopted out” is an oversimplification of what happens when the children go from federal custody to state and then county custody. There would have been an attempt to place them with family members first, not due to anything the federal government did but because there’s an actual transfer of custody from federal to state agencies and when the state took over they would use their normal process for “dependent” children- children who don’t have caretakers or guardians. It doesn’t have to be “family” as in relatives- it can be someone the parent or parent designates as a preferred custodian. They don’t just adopt them out. Adoption is a probate court process that would be governed by state law. The DOJ or DHS wouldn’t have any role in it.
    One reason the federal government shouldn’t do this- and why no one did it before Trump- is because the federal government doesn’t have a process or structure in place to act as custodians of other peoples children. States do. They took these children and then they couldn’t care for them. It was insane. The Obama Administration kept them in the care and custody of their parents because it’s humane but also because they would understand that if the federal government takes the children the federal government is then responsible for their well being, and the federal government isn’t set up to handle that.

  21. 21.

    Princess

    Isn’t the next debate supposed to b a town hall? I don’t see how you can expose ordinary Americans in good conscience to that unmasked orange disease vector in 8 days.

  23. 23.

    r€nato

    don’t give up on stimulus/relief negotiations just yet. I took Trump’s tweet Tuesday morning as just more market manipulation on his part. I promise you before Monday he will reverse course and markets will soar and Trump Crime Family lieutenants and foot soldiers will make bank on the gyrations. Same playbook as summer 2019 but this time it’s not China tariffs.

  30. 30.

    p.a.

    If there’s anything that can remotely approach being a positive abt the 2016 election it’s that the dems won’t become complacent over good numbers for the next generation.  #burythem

     

    Also too, maybe saltpeter male dem candidates #cunningham

  31. 31.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @hueyplong: I raised my eyebrow, but I figured those who practice that have been praying for Joe ever since he locked up the nomination anyway.

  32. 32.

    Kay

    It’s tempting to want Biden to debate Trump because Trump performed so incredibly poorly at the last debate- it is the worst performance I have ever seen in a presidential debate. But there is the risk to Biden and not just Biden- people have to work at these events and they’re at risk too not just from the President but from his celebrity entourage who refuse to follow rules and will probably lie about being tested.

    I don’t think Trump will be well enough to go so Biden could probably credibly bluff and then have douchebag make some lame excuse but that would be gameplaying and Biden’s whole approach to covid has been “I don’t play games with this” and that has certainly worked for him, along with being the right thing to do.

    I confess I would enjoy another Trump disaster debate, but obviously that’s selfish.

  33. 33.

    BethanyAnne

    I watched the Biden Gettysburg speech, and I’m really not happy about it. He wants to compromise with Republicans? Wants us all to come together for the good of the country? What? Did he miss Obama’s second term? What makes him think that there are any Republicans willing to compromise left in the party anywhere? How do you compromise with those assholes? They think you are either evil or a chump. Who is the audience for this? The DC Press Corpse?

  35. 35.

    Gin & Tonic

    On Monday my Biden-Harris stickers finally arrived. I offered one to my son, who fairly recently moved back to the US and within the last week or two bought a car – a fairly well-used Volvo XC70. He said: nah, don’t need one – it’s a Volvo.

  37. 37.

    JPL

    @Kay: There’s another debate scheduled for a week later, that trump might be able to attend.    There needs to be plexi though.

  38. 38.

    Baud

    @p.a.:

    If there’s anything that can remotely approach being a positive abt the 2016 election it’s that the dems won’t become complacent over good numbers for the next generation.

    I hope so, but that’s wishful thinking at this point.

  39. 39.

    Jay

    @hueyplong:

    tots and pears is not supposed to be about blegging God for more money or better hookers,

    It’s not supposed to be a insincere offhand performative act after an avoidable tragedy,

    it’s supposed to be a ritual act of mindfulness.

    another ancient religious/humanist act that the Christianists have befouled.

  40. 40.

    dmsilev

    @Kay: The original debate plan was for everyone in the audience to take one of those rapid tests right before entering the hall. Trump and his crew arrived late enough that there wasn’t time to do so. One might be suspicious of that, suspecting it was deliberate.
    So, both tonight and next week, the organizers should simply refuse admission to anyone who doesn’t take an on-site test. Delay the start of the debate if you have to, and say why publicly.

  42. 42.

    Kay

    @JPL:

    He’s melting down publicly without a debate. Imagine a debate. He was supposedly in top form for the last one and it was a train wreck. He’s not going to get better. That applies to his whole presidency – “he’s not going to get better”. He only gets worse.

  43. 43.

    debit

    @BethanyAnne:  So, do you want him to say that he’ll just steamroll over Republicans?

    I understand where you’re coming from, but we still need votes from everyone.  Would you vote for someone who said they would never work with Democrats?

    This is who he is.  He’s always said he wants to work across the aisle.  That doesn’t mean he rolls over for them.  They get a seat at the table, and if they would rather smear spaghetti in their hair instead of working with him, fine, then they get ignored. That’s my read of what he means.

  45. 45.

    Jay

    @BethanyAnne:

    yes, it’s a sop to the DC Press Corpse, the Beltway, and the few not completely insane ReThug voters.

    it’s performative.

    There will be no Biden “Team of Equals”,

    he has not forgotten the shiving of Obama or Hillary.

  46. 46.

    Argiope

    @BethanyAnne:  The audience isn’t us; it’s independents and people who have soured on Emperor Tang that need a permission structure to vote for Joe.  It’s a closing argument to allow a Dem blowout because “Look, he’s not scary and believes in bipartisanship.”

    ETA or what debit & Jay said

  49. 49.

    Kay

    @dmsilev:

    I definitely think dodging the test was deliberate. There was reporting that the Trump posse were at a Cleveland hotel flouting mask rules prior to the debate exposing scores of innocent people – they had a buffet and drinks. They weren’t in any hurry to get to that hall.

    I have no reason in the world to believe Mike Pence, either. It’s a coin flip whether he’s lying about his status. But Biden and Harris have to govern in a month so they have to operate in a covid environment, so I don’t want to go to far in the “safety” direction. Biden has hit it just right so far.

  50. 50.

    BethanyAnne

    I’m just not in a mood to hear happy talk about reaching across the aisle. I guess my vote is locked in, and he needs to appeal to voters who have somehow missed the last 8 years.

  51. 51.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    I think virtual makes a lot of sense- all of us in the public are doing remote meetings so it’s relatable and familiar to people, but we’re not dealing with rational adults here- we’re dealing with the Trump Administration.

  53. 53.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay:

    I don’t think Trump will be well enough to go so Biden could probably credibly bluff and then have douchebag make some lame excuse but that would be gameplaying and Biden’s whole approach to covid has been “I don’t play games with this” and that has certainly worked for him, along with being the right thing to do.

    I keep coming back to thinking that conservatism’s whole brand was supposed to be that they’re the high-conscientiousness, responsible people. Liberals don’t have their personal shit together, so they want a nanny state to tell them what to do and take care of them; conservatives want a lighter hand from the state because they believe people should be trusted to be responsible, and it’ll make them more responsible in the long run. I don’t agree with this but that’s their traditional pitch.

    But it seems like whenever someone on that side talks about masks or distancing being a matter of “personal responsibility”, they’re actively endorsing the irresponsible behavior–it’s more like “every man for himself” with a side of toxic macho; I can do whatever I want and it’s up to you to protect yourself from me, if you’re chicken. As an endorsement of personal responsibility it’s completely empty.

  57. 57.

    TS (the original)

    @r€nato:

    I promise you before Monday he will reverse course

    Futures were back up last night – probably directly after he started tweeting that he would sign on money for the airlines  & for individuals.

    Someone made some money in the intervening couple of hours.

  59. 59.

    zhena gogolia

    @rikyrah:

    We’ve all, ALL, been doing things on Zoom we never thought we would. Faculty meetings, scholarly conferences, lectures, theatrical and musical performances. There isn’t a reason in the world why the debate couldn’t be made virtual.

  61. 61.

    zhena gogolia

    @BethanyAnne: go to hell

    ETA: Sorry if I was harsh. We can’t criticize Biden right now. We can go back to being Democrats, tearing down our own people, as soon as he’s been inaugurated.

  62. 62.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Matt McIrvin: conservatives want a lighter hand from the state because they believe people should be trusted to be responsible, and it’ll make them more responsible in the long run.

    Republicans are the best argument against that statement I can think of.

  64. 64.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    My husband, who used to be a Right leaning independent, talks about that. Just looking at those photos of the SCOTUS party- not one of them said “this is reckless- why are we all going along with it?” and that wasn’t just the Trump flunkies. It was the fucking brain trust on the Right. The top “thinkers”, supposedly. John Roberts was there just happily flouting the DC city covid rules. They’re judges! Why are they brazenly defying the rules of the city they’re in?

  65. 65.

    germy

    @TS (the original):  Futures were back up last night – probably directly after he started tweeting that he would sign on money for the airlines  & for individuals.

    He probably started tweeting after he saw someone on the Fox network express concern about the stock market.

  66. 66.

    hueyplong

    @BethanyAnne:  Psst, don’t worry, the steamroll comes after Jan 21.

    I say Jan 21 instead of Jan 20 because on Day 1 McConnell will say that they’re not going along with anything because 3 Kentuckians died of the plague the day before and the stock market dropped a point, making it clear that the country has had enough of Democrat rule.

  67. 67.

    gvg

    @dmsilev: I think the debate administration should make contingency plans assuming the Trump entourage will do this and start the debate on time with the moderator asking Kamala questions and listening to her answers alone, without waiting on Pence, and not give him back any of the lost time, and state why.” Not only were they late, but based on the last debate, it looked deliberate, so this is the consequence.” The President and the Vice President are expected to plan carefully, no excuses.

    I hope they also make contingency plans for if Pence and/or some of his entourage test positive…they need to be ready to refuse admittance period. Then go ahead and interview Kamela (assuming she tests negative).  If I were a campaign I would have everyone tested with the most accurate test ahead of time, then isolate, then do rapid just before they all leave, because the optics are really negative for an at the door refusal, so I wouldn’t want to arrive with anyone that could test positive.  Trump and Pence are too stupid to see this.

    It needs planning to stand up to them. They really could try the late stunt again and they really could be positive and need kicking out.

  69. 69.

    JR

    I usually couldn’t give fuck all about the Nobel, but Doudna and Charpentier is like an 8-year turnaround from discovery to award and it’s a big one. Plus two women laureates. Well deserved.

  72. 72.

    Baud

    The best way to stick it to Republicans is to get public sentiment on your side when the Republicans play games.  If you go in guns blazing against Republicans, the public will think you’re the one being unreasonable, and that will only empower the GOP.  Everyone like to tell themselves Obama was ignorant when dealing with the GOP, and you can nitpick his decisions to death, but at bottom that’s what he was trying to achieve.

    Also, too, the time to stick it to Republicans was when we nominated the Hildabeast, whom they loathe.  We (as in our marginal voter) didn’t come through.

  73. 73.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @BethanyAnne:

    His audience is white suburban women in Charlotte, Phoenix, Atlanta, Columbus, Jacksonville, Orlando and beyond. It makes zero electoral sense to announce political show trials or The Revolution if you need those people to be elected.

  74. 74.

    Geminid

    @BethanyAnne: I’ve  been observing Virginia Congresswomen Abigail Spanberger and Elaine Luria defending their purple districts, and Cameron Webb, candidate in my 5th Virginia. Their messaging tracks closely to that which you found so objectionable in Biden’s Gettysburg speech.  So does the messaging of every Democratic Senate challenger I’ve followed. Regardless of its validity, a lot of people want to hear that message, and not necessarily because they are ignorant or naive.         But the limits of bipartisanship will be put to the test in the new Congress. No candidate is giving up any agency by speaking well of it now.

  76. 76.

    hueyplong

    @BethanyAnne: We know where you’re coming from.  We’re a little jumpy because of 2016, promised shenanigans, waking up to a different page from the Book of Revelation each morning, etc.

    Each day the spousal unit complains about the latest about Cal Cunningham and then I snap at her while yelling that we have to drag the stupid MF across the finish line.

    And we’re all on the lockdowns that the Versailles courtiers and aristocrats blithely ignore.

    Tempers are gonna fray.

  77. 77.

    Matt McIrvin

    @JR: Giving it to Penrose feels a little weird–the time to do that would have been when Stephen Hawking was still alive and could share it, because that was clearly Hawking’s Nobel-worthy work.

  78. 78.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    I’m looking at the way polls dropped for Trump after he went to the hospital and trying to figure out what went through people’s minds to make that happen. Oh look, COVID is real? Trump isn’t invincible after all? What a sissy to go to the hospital? I don’t get it.

  79. 79.

    germy

    Here’s something I didn’t understand during the Biden-Trump debate.

    Biden said of his Affordable Care public option, that it would only be available to people who were “really poor.”

    I thought we’d all have the choice to pick the public option if we got fed up with private insurance.  I didn’t know it’d be means tested, and that I’d have to be really poor to choose it.

    Can someone clarify?

  81. 81.

    Ken

    @Kay: John Roberts was there just happily flouting the DC city covid rules. They’re judges! Why are they brazenly defying the rules of the city they’re in?

    One might even call it not “good Behaviour”.

  82. 82.

    Baud

    @germy:

    From Biden’s website:

    Giving Americans a new choice, a public health insurance option like Medicare. If your insurance company isn’t doing right by you, you should have another, better choice. Whether you’re covered through your employer, buying your insurance on your own, or going without coverage altogether, the Biden Plan will give you the choice to purchase a public health insurance option like Medicare. As in Medicare, the Biden public option will reduce costs for patients by negotiating lower prices from hospitals and other health care providers. It also will better coordinate among all of a patient’s doctors to improve the efficacy and quality of their care, and cover primary care without any co-payments. And it will bring relief to small businesses struggling to afford coverage for their employees.

    ….

    Expanding coverage to low-income Americans. Access to affordable health insurance shouldn’t depend on your state’s politics. But today, state politics is getting in the way of coverage for millions of low-income Americans. Governors and state legislatures in 14 states have refused to take up the Affordable Care Act’s expansion of Medicaid eligibility, denying access to Medicaid for an estimated 4.9 million adults. Biden’s plan will ensure these individuals get covered by offering premium-free access to the public option for those 4.9 million individuals who would be eligible for Medicaid but for their state’s inaction, and making sure their public option covers the full scope of Medicaid benefits. States that have already expanded Medicaid will have the choice of moving the expansion population to the premium-free public option as long as the states continue to pay their current share of the cost of covering those individuals. Additionally, Biden will ensure people making below 138% of the federal poverty level get covered. He’ll do this by automatically enrolling these individuals when they interact with certain institutions (such as public schools) or other programs for low-income populations (such as SNAP).

  83. 83.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I think there were some non-political-junkies who still retained some idea that Trump was really being at least as careful about COVID as they were and it was all a show. Or that maybe it was a little overblown. Even I figured that he might skate on COVID personally because everyone allowed to make contact with him was getting tested obsessively. But that wasn’t even true.

  84. 84.

    Mousebumples

    https://threader.app/thread/1313513475491143681

    Hoarse had a thread yesterday, on trumps narcissistic bubble popping that I don’t think I saw posted here yet?

    At some point, a narcissist’s whole shtick implodes. Their fragile, porcelain facade cracks in too many places. They lose control of the narrative. They double down on increasingly unbelievable things.

    And then the monument topples and the pigeons finally scatter.1/

    There are always a few diehard hangers-on but they lose the crowd.

    It has been so long with Trump – and his cult is so brainwashed by a propaganda machine bigger than him – I had more or less given up on his implosion ever coming.2/

    It feels like we’re finally there though.His routine has run its course.It has been too much for too long; and it has been too much all at once.

    His debate tantrum was eye-opening to people usually tunneled in on watching only Trump with no one beside him as contrast.2/

    His COVID case fractured his many lies about coronavirus.It isn’t going away. Even he isn’t well protected from it. And all of that is his own fault.

    His facade of strength and competence and control has just sprung too many leaks.

    There’s more, and worth a read if you enjoy schadenfreude with your coffee in the morning.

  85. 85.

    gvg

    @Gin & Tonic: Well my parents, lifelong democrats are in their 70’s. They are nice polite democrats, never use even mild badwords. They would be very uncomfortable with an aggressive nominee.  They won’t even tell their next door neighbor DeSantis is a white racist…..really obvious things they know.  You aren’t supposed to be mean to people.  Its part of why they vote democrat…they aren’t mean.  I think there are a lot of that type. Look at a significant percentage of the Biden signs say things like we welcome different people in our neighborhood and Joe is decent, Joe is a good man. I know, you know, but a lot of people also just don’t like being angry all the time.

    We need enough democrats in Congress to mostly just do what’s needed.

  88. 88.

    Princess

    @BethanyAnne: FWIW while I agree with the others that it is smart to say politically, I share your worries that deep down Biden believes he will be able to negotiate with the GOP, that they’re the old senate he knew and loved, that he figures Barack couldn’t get them to do anything because he was Black but it will be different for Biden. So I hear you.

  90. 90.

    Mousebumples

    @hueyplong: I know, right? ?

    As I’m reading other comments, this might also cover DAW’s question about what happened to the polls since the debate – in a good way! (well, good for us, anyhow)

  93. 93.

    germy

    @Baud:

    Giving Americans a new choice, a public health insurance option like Medicare. If your insurance company isn’t doing right by you, you should have another, better choice. Whether you’re covered through your employer, buying your insurance on your own, or going without coverage altogether, the Biden Plan will give you the choice to purchase a public health insurance option like Medicare. As in Medicare, the Biden public option will reduce costs for patients by negotiating lower prices from hospitals and other health care providers. It also will better coordinate among all of a patient’s doctors to improve the efficacy and quality of their care, and cover primary care without any co-payments. And it will bring relief to small businesses struggling to afford coverage for their employees.

    Yes, I remember this from his website, which is why I was confused by his “No, you gotta be really poor to get the public option” answer to trump’s needling him about “socialized medicine.”

    The above paragraph is something I’ve been quoting for a long time to my wife and friends.  I didn’t know what to tell them after the debate.

  95. 95.

    Baud

    @germy: As I read it, the public option for the poor will be premium free.  Everyone else would have to pay something for it.

  96. 96.

    germy

    @Baud:

    Okay, good.

    I was worried I’d have to provide ten years of financial paperwork to prove I’m worthy.

    I don’t mind a premium.  I would hope it would be lower than private insurance.

  97. 97.

    Baud

    @germy:

    @Baud:

    Here’s what he said at the debate.

    It does not. It’s only for those people who are so poor they qualify for Medicaid, they can get that free. In most states, except governors who want to deny people are poor, Medicaid. Anyone who qualifies for Medicare — excuse me, Medicaid — would automatically be enrolled in the public option. The vast majority of the American people would still not be in that option. Number one —

    The poor would get it for free and be automatically enrolled.  Biden is factually right that most other people would not be in the public option (because they get employer based coverage.).  It’s obvious not as clear as it could be (can you blame him?) but nothing suggests he has backtracked from making the public option available to everyone.

    ETA:  “Socialized medicine” would mean everyone is on the same national plan.  Biden is saying most people will still have private insurance.

  98. 98.

    Kay

    @Ken:

    It grates on me in particular because “the fancy Right” are such insufferable, sanctimonious prigs.

    I mean, really. How dare they. They’re too vain and silly to put a mask on and they’re going to lecture us on public virtue?

  99. 99.

    Nicole

    @BethanyAnne: I hear you; I get really annoyed every time Biden trots out the “I am running as a Democrat but I will be a President for all Americans” but the bullshit state of our nation is such that Democrats are expected to be willing to be bipartisan while Republicans can be the bullies their sad, shriveled, frightened hearts want them to be.

    It’s on all of us, as his constituents, to keep the pressure on after the election to go after members of the GOP who have committed crimes and to tell the Biden Administration that it’s not okay to let bygones be bygones; the US gov’t needs to set an example to its citizens that no one is above the law.  That’s on us.

    And if some corrupt Democrats go down in the process, the thing with the Democrats that’s great is, we’re totally okay with that.

  100. 100.

    Armadillo

    @rikyrah:

    Why does everyone seem to be talking about in person debate as the only option? Everything else is done by Zoom these days. For that matter why is Harris debating Pence in person and not by Zoom? I don’t understand why we (well the press and the two campaigns) are having all these arguments about plexiglass shields and distance. Or maybe that’s the answer – that the Republicans won’t agree to a virtual debate and Biden/Harris feel there’s an advantage in having the debates

  101. 101.

    germy

    Tonight’s the night.

    Pence doesn’t want the plexiglass, because it will be a constant reminder of how he’s failed to handle the coronavirus. He’s trying to push this on Kamala, but he ain’t slick. He’s scared. #VPDebate— Sister Night Says…Period. (@SisterNightSays) October 6, 2020

    “She can come out in a giant hamster ball. It wouldn’t change the fact that all she has to do with every question is say you let your boss get sick. The potus is sick because of you. You’re supposed to be the czar” pic.twitter.com/e70i4AVfqE— Acyn Torabi (@Acyn) October 7, 2020

  104. 104.

    Jeffro

    @Kay:not one of them said “this is reckless- why are we all going along with it?” and that wasn’t just the Trump flunkies. It was the fucking brain trust on the Right.

    ‘leader signaling’ is a very real thing

  105. 105.

    Kay

    @Ken:

    Not that it matters but they’re also full of shit on their commitment to robust debate and examination. The Right and the newest justice have colluded on a political campaign to make ANY questions about her work or her record off limits, by characterizing everything as an attack on her religion. She’s chilling speech and she’s doing it in a way that benefits her personally.

    She can be religious. She can’t use it as a shield to hide behind. We’re permitted to ask this public employee questions before we hand her a lifetime job. The entitlement is just off the charts. She is the least examined nominee I have ever seen and STILL her backers are running a coordinated campaign to shout down anyone who asks anything.

  106. 106.

    Scout211

    That story about Dr. Jill gently moving Biden back during a conversation with reporters really touched me. Mr. Scout is in Joe’s age group and has age related hearing loss.  If you have a hearing loss,  it’s especially difficult to clearly hear what people are saying when they are wearing masks, even with hearing aids. I’ve gently moved Mr. Scout back like that many times.  And he is always grateful and apologetic, like Joe is.

  107. 107.

    Baud

    As a reminder, there is nothing more irrelevant to the presidential campaign than the Vice Presidential debate.  Tonight will be no different.

  108. 108.

    zhena gogolia

    @Princess: 
    Biden is extremely smart. He knows exactly what the Republicans have been doing, PRECISELY because he remembers what it used to be like.

  110. 110.

    Jeffro

    @Geminid: 1.a lot of people want to hear that message, and not necessarily because they are ignorant or naive.         2.But the limits of bipartisanship will be put to the test in the new Congress.

    1. Yes, we need to pull in every possible vote we can for the biggest possible landslide on 11/3…I’m good with Dems all up and down the ticket reaching, reaching, reaching for those crossover votes
    2. I’m good with bipartisanship as long as it consists of sane Republicans coming around to our positions  ;)
  113. 113.

    zhena gogolia

    @Nicole:

    I get really annoyed every time Biden trots out the “I am running as a Democrat but I will be a President for all Americans” but the bullshit state of our nation is such that Democrats are expected to be willing to be bipartisan while Republicans can be the bullies their sad, shriveled, frightened hearts want them to be.

    No, the president should attempt to be a president for all Americans, as Obama (and Bill Clinton) did. That is the ideal. I thought we were trying to preserve something of what we think the country should be. I don’t want a president who’s going to act like Trump, only by favoring my side.

  114. 114.

    germy

    @Baud:

    I’m interested in seeing two people, a heartbeat away from becoming president themselves, debate each other.

    I won’t be watching any more trump debates, though.

    The last one raised my blood pressure and upset my wife.  Pence is a liar, but he’s not a shouter.  I’d like to see Harris refute his talking points.

    And then I’m done.  We know who we’re voting for.

  116. 116.

    Immanentize

    @Baud: Except this VP debate has one thing no other ever had — Trump.  People talk about an audience of one.  Harris could ignore Pence all night and just make fun of Trump and it would be an effective use of her time.

  118. 118.

    Jeffro

    @Baud: true indeed.

    I may do the smart thing tonight – leave the TV off, and hit the sack before the debate’s even over.

    Stay safe, Senator Harris!

  119. 119.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    In the photo it looks like he is attempting to social distance and (I think) his wife was wearing a pretty elaborate face shield.

    Eugene Scalia, who is IN CHARGE of federal regulation of workplaces, was sitting in a fucking federal workplace flouting basic safety rules. Every Wendy’s manager has to worry about these rules but the elite Right just blows them off. It’s appalling behavior. What it also is is entitled and privileged behavior.

  120. 120.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Thread:

    Robert Samuels
    @newsbysamuels
    The more I hear about President Trump’s covid treatment, the more I think about the late James Brooks, an 80-year-old black man who lived outside Detroit. He left Mississippi for Detroit and built a middle-class life for his family as a company man at Chrysler.

  121. 121.

    Kay

    @zhena gogolia:

    I agree. I bitch that half the Trump voters in my county are on Obama’s medicaid expansion but I’m proud he did it. We have to have standards. They have to serve the whole country.

    I know it’s a double standard when Trump and the Right shit all over cities and blue states and Democrats don’t shit all over red states. But I want my standard, not theirs.

  122. 122.

    germy

    At Biden’s NBC town hall the other night, his last question was from a young person, and his answer was awesome.  Biden won a crowd of undecideds’ cheers and applause.

    Lester Holt was apparently instructed to feed Biden a bunch of GOP gotcha questions, and he did so dutifully, but it didn’t look like his heart was in it.   Matt Lauer would have had more fun doing it, but he’s currently in time out at one of his estates.

  123. 123.

    NotMax

    @zhena gogolia

    This (among other things). There’s a big difference between compromises and concessions.

    When and if one side adamantly refuses to consider the former and petulantly demands the latter, that’s the time to fire up the steamroller.

  124. 124.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: They really thought they had created a rich elite bubble that would protect them all.  Hell, I mostly believed they had too, because they could have with all their resources available.  But they couldn’t even do what everyone knows they could have done.  That is why, answering DAW, I think Trump’s numbers are sinking.  It’s because he showed himself to be a failure at a thing so easily done.

  127. 127.

    zhena gogolia

    @Immanentize:

    All I can think, based on their behavior, is that they imagine they’ll also be able to somehow escape the effects of climate change with their money and privilege. I think they are wrong.

  128. 128.

    germy

    @zhena gogolia:  they imagine they’ll also be able to somehow escape the effects of climate change with their money and privilege.

    Yes.  Trump by moving to the Florida coast.

  130. 130.

    geg6

    @BethanyAnne:

    he needs to appeal to voters who have somehow missed the last 8 years.

    Yes, that’s what he needs to do.  You do realize that these people are the majority of actual voters, right?

  131. 131.

    Jeffro

    OT but this year’s Fat Bear Contest is over and the winner is…747!

    (as in the jumbo jet ;)

    747 was a worthy champion, the park said in a statement. “This year he really packed on the pounds, looking like he was fat enough to hibernate in July and yet continuing to eat until his belly seemed to drag along the ground by late September,” the park said.

    So it wasn’t just me, then…

  134. 134.

    Jeffro

    Ok back on topic: trumpov is tweeting to Californians about how much better he’s going to make their lives.  “We can win in California NOW!”  Oh my

    It’s an…unorthodox…campaign strategy, to say the least.  All those Electoral Votes lying there, just waiting to be picked up by the right Republican…  0_0

    “Top of the world, ma!” countdown commencing in 3, 2, 1…

  137. 137.

    Jeffro

    @Immanentize: It’s ridiculous.  I can’t wear shorts and track pants all winter and I refuse to buy next-size-up pants!!

    Somebody pass me the kale (sob)

  138. 138.

    Immanentize

    @Jeffro: I think I see the brain pan logic — Trump is told, look, if we hope to win at all, we have to win Florida and Texas.  We have to move resources to shore up those states….

    Sound of creaking gears and smell of smoke….

    Trump:  We need to take the fight to the Democrats, we need to focus on California and New York — make them spend all their monies in those states!

  139. 139.

    MattF

    For the record, Trump on how often he was tested “I do take probably on average a test every two days, three days.” Which, needless to say, means he was tested only after everyone who came near him went positive.

  140. 140.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Jeffro: Hey, it’s 55 EV’s. He’d be a fool to ignore that haul. I encourage his campaign to devote a lot more resources there – spend, spend, spend.

  142. 142.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    There’s this whole Trump thing with “superior genes” that has run thru his whole Presidency. I mean, I would like to think their feelings of invulnerability are based on their coddled status, but I’m afraid it’s a little deeper than that. It goes beyond ideological tribalism to actual tribes.

  143. 143.

    Chyron HR

    @BethanyAnne:

    It’s so sad that Biden is looking somewhere other than the far left for votes.  Perhaps by 2024 the Bernievolution might figure out that pre-emptively vowing not to vote Democratic means Democrats make less of an effort to get their votes.

  144. 144.

    geg6

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    My theory is that people thought how could they have let this happen?  The guy was, as told by the WH spokescritters and Cheetolini himself, being tested constantly.  I think they assumed that, although he acted the tough guy in public, that extraordinary precautions were being taken to keep him safe behind the scenes.  His contracting it, especially after the optics of the Barrett receptions, showed that he was being just as cavalier in private and, perhaps, even more so.  Having that insane performance during the debate seems to have been the start of the big slide, but I think becoming Typhoid Donnie and then Covita when he came home to the WH was just the last straw for some.

  145. 145.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: Even if we have zero regard for Republican voters, concern for our own supporters in those states, who are already getting crapped on by their own states’ elites, is a huge part of what we stand for. I think there are too many Northeastern and Californian white liberals who lose sight of that too often and just want to write them off.

  150. 150.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: I think Steven Miller probably reinforces this idea every time he seems Trump.  But Miller has to be a self- deprecating courtier.  “Oh, Sir, your genes are the best.  (Tears in Miller’s eyes) Look at your daughter.  The best.  If only worms like me could have the same great genes….”

  151. 151.

    BethanyAnne

    @Chyron HR: You might scroll up. I stopped asking question or objecting in any way shape or form about 100 comments ago. I’m sorry, I didn’t get the perfection of the strategy at first, and had a worry. I apologize to you for having that worry, and having the temerity to write it out. I have no worries now.

  153. 153.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Trump does it a lot. The overt racism gets all the attention but the Trump’s are fucking weird and archaic about the alleged superiority of their forebears. Yuck.

  154. 154.

    TS (the original)

    @germy:

    I’d like to see Harris refute his talking points.

    I’d like to see the adjudicator ask the same question again and again when it doesn’t get answered as happened last night in the McSally/Kelly debate.

    When pressed over and over again, Republican Sen. Martha McSally of Arizona would not say on Tuesday whether she was proud of her support of President Donald Trump in her debate against Democratic opponent Mark Kelly.

    There is a video around somewhere, but at the minute I am not finding it.

  156. 156.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: And even going by states, the border between Red America and Blue America keeps changing, anyway!

    I haven’t lived there for a long time but on some level I still think of myself as a Virginian. When I lived there, Virginia would have been a write-off state in the New Confederacy (and, let me tell you, you knew it at every moment). Now it’s not. We’re on the edge of getting North Carolina and Georgia, maybe even Arizona. The clock is ticking in Texas. We’re probably losing a chunk of the upper Midwest, long-term. Treating these as static boundaries is foolish.

  158. 158.

    Betty Cracker

    @BethanyAnne: No apology necessary. Your reaction was normal considering that the GOP is a death cult rather than a political party with which we have policy disagreements. I had the same reaction myself, though I recognize the necessity of that kind of talk to reach independents, suburbanites, blah blah blah.

    I thought the end of Biden’s speech was really strong, though. I’ve never bought into the “soul of America” thing, though I recognize its utility as a political pitch. The truth as I see it is that 30-40% of the “soul of America” is a rotting, putrid horror that cannot be redeemed, and the only remaining question is whether we can move forward with such a grievous burden. Biden had me half believing that perhaps we can. It was a good speech!

  160. 160.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    The anti-immigrant thing on the Right is just baffling to me, because I think I’m outside the mainstream in the other direction. I think people are allowed to move.

    I never thought the country was “mine” so I can’t keep it. I can’t imagine thinking it’s mine. Why would it be mine? It offends me in a nitpicky legalistic way- they don’t hold title!

  162. 162.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    People forget this but Republicans and conservatives made a conscious choice to take the Trump road, and they did it before Trump started running (but after he launched his birther slander). They had this whole discussion about whether they should double down on white working and middle class men after the Romney loss OR if they should expand the tent. They CHOSE this. Trump saw the opening but they made it. If it hadn’t have been Trump it would have been another reactionary- Huckabee or that ilk.

  164. 164.

    scribbler

    @BethanyAnne:  You expressed worry and frustration.  Just as we all are feeling, on different levels.  Yet you were put through the meat grinder even after trying to respond to people in a reasonable way.   You did not deserve the beat down.

  165. 165.

    jonas

    @BethanyAnne:

    Who is the audience for this? The DC Press Corpse?

    Oh, absolutely. They eat this shit up. So do so-called “independent” voters. I think Biden is perfectly aware that this bipartisanship stuff is bullshit, but he needs to say the right things for the media, esp in swing states.

  166. 166.

    Ken

    @Kay: Even in a 60/40 Trump county 40% isn’t nothing. It’s a lot of people.

    Conversely, in 2016 more people in California voted for Trump than did in North and South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas, and Alaska combined.

  167. 167.

    Jay

    @germy:

    “same way we pay for the Pentagon, failed wars of choice, Corporate subsidies  and tax cuts for Billionaires.”

  168. 168.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Kay:

    I still think we fucked up with rural electrification, rural flood control/irrigation, rural road build outs, and farm aid. The Sainted Market (Peace Be Unto It) would have incentivized people to abandon unproductive ruralities and sent them to bona fide agricultural production or urban labor, as market shifts dictated.

    Eventually, the bootstraps cannot be relied upon to pull up those boots in large portions of the Deep South and Appalachia, and one must move on from grandma n’em….

     

    ?

  169. 169.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: When the entire 2016 Republican field (including the children of Hispanic immigrants) signed on to the idea of getting rid of automatic citizenship for everyone born in the US and making it somehow dependent on your ancestry, that was a sign. They made their choice.

    (I should say, I know self-identified Democrats who agree with this on the basis of having read something about birth tourism. It’s a thing to watch out for.)

  171. 171.

    Ken

    @Jay: You mean tax cuts?

    I would love to see the Democrats troll the Republicans by proposing to use tax cuts to pay for all their proposed expansions.

  174. 174.

    Danielx

    Slept in, didn’t hear that Trump had ordered a nuclear strike on Chicago or anything similar….it’s going to be a good day.

  178. 178.

    germy

    @Ken:  We both know that won’t receive any national attention.

    Unless a Democrat is involved, then it’ll be splashed all over the headlines….

    It’s a Republican, so it will remain one of those “Huh!” stories we’ll see on twitter and blogs like this.

    I mean, all network news channels spent three nights worrying about Omar’s “benjamins” remarks, but were curiously silent when Gaetz invited a holocaust denier to the SOTU.

  179. 179.

    Ken

    @Immanentize: He should meet in person with the conservative justices, to emphasize (with much shouting) how important this is.  He should also bring his personal attorney, Bill Barr, with him.

  181. 181.

    brantl

    @Kay: I think we should start using plane wreck for Stumpy’s little outings, it implies no survivors, so it would be more apt, I think.

  183. 183.

    MisterForkbeard

    Jesus H Christ, you cant put things like this into the title. I saw this article title and was convinced Joe had covid.

    Nice early morning heart attack to wake me up

     

    ETA: I see I’m not the only one.

  185. 185.

    trollhattan

    @Jeffro:

    Perhaps of value for the Devin Nuneses and Kevin McCarthys and Tom McClintocks. Otherwise, money wasted to which I can only say, “Please proceed.”

  186. 186.

    Wolvesvalley

    @gvg: And if anybody in the audience refuses to wear a mask or takes their mask off after the debate begins, the debate should be canceled immediately. Like this.

  188. 188.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Kay: you are presuming far too much compliance from an administration that has proven time and again it doesn’t give a shit about the law.  Those kids were sold to donors.

  191. 191.

    brantl

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I’m thinking it was people coming to the realization that he really is too stupid to avoid getting Covid 19, even with all the protection that a president could have, if he was smart enough to use it.

  193. 193.

    Jeffro

    @Kay:People forget this but Republicans and conservatives made a conscious choice to take the Trump road, and they did it before Trump started running (but after he launched his birther slander). They had this whole discussion about whether they should double down on white working and middle class men after the Romney loss OR if they should expand the tent. They CHOSE this.

    So true.  And so totally unworkable, their views on immigration.  It’s the same way with climate change, with abortion, and a host of other issues.  They could be proposing conservative/right-leaning/”market”/science-based solutions and policies to all of these issues.  But when the party consists of hard core racists, Randians, and religious nutters (with significant overlap) they’re not going to be satisfied with carbon taxes, easy availability to birth control, etc.

    Their “solution” to everything is, “my way or the highway”.  Well, I think they’re about to get run over on that there highway.

  194. 194.

    Jeffro

    @Ken: If Biden wins Texas next month, methinks a great many Republicans are going to be very interested in the U.S. having a national popular vote for president.

  197. 197.

    Betty Cracker

    @Jeffro: That’s the only way we’ll ever get rid of the Electoral College, and we should definitely take them up on it!

  200. 200.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @BethanyAnne: @scribbler: Gang ups are a balloon juice tradition. It can be hard to take, but there it is. From what I’ve seen, BethanyAnne seems to be able to handle it. Gave me a couple of good chuckles too.

  201. 201.

    Peale

    @Jeffro: Depends. I’m going to bet that Biden might Win that state but not get any electoral votes from it.  As long as state legislators can be bought for a few ten thousand dollars they’ll hang on to their electoral vote advantage using shenanigans until the Democratic voters figure out that showing up for off year elections is critical.

  202. 202.

    fancycwabs

    Looks like Trump’s going all-in on the Hail Mary* play of getting Amy Boney Carrot on the Supreme Court and then the Supreme Court electing him President.
    __________

    * Yes, this is intentional.

  203. 203.

    db11

    @Betty Cracker: Co-sign all of this.

    I’m not worried myself by Biden’s reflexive instincts to ‘reach across the aisle’, and in fact I think that the intent is necessary to begin to heal the division in the country.

    I also think that there are enough strong, emerging Dem leaders who have an entirely different history with Republicans — for whom Senate ‘comity’ is more like comedy, as in farce — that won’t allow the (policy) store to be given away in an attempt to woo the centre-right.

    Plus Biden has shown that he is moving with the party centre as it moves left.

    I understand the worries about Biden and his nostalgia for a political time that has long passed, but he grasps the essence of the moment and has stepped up. I don’t see him faltering.

    (This from someone who never wanted him — or Bernie — to run in the first place).

  204. 204.

    Jeffro

    @Betty Cracker: Maybe play a bit coy, just to completely suck them in?

    “You guys are SURE you want to amend the Constitution and get rid of the EC?  I mean, you’re positive?  I just dunno…ok, we’ll give it a try and see how it works out…”  ;)

  205. 205.

    Jeffro

    @fancycwabs: I don’t think Roberts and Gorsuch are going to go along with any such thing, especially in the face of a huge Biden/Harris win.

    I’ll be interested to see which GOP Senators will crack and come clean on 11/4.

  206. 206.

    Peale

    @fancycwabs: I am beginning to get very worried about this attempt. If it succeeds, then what? Are going to become the “fringe” party that calls for the assassination of judges, like right wing militia were for 25 years? The difference being that right wing types who threaten judges are allowed in this country and its proponents are courted by the GOP, and that has never been the case for “the left.” But I honestly don’t see any choices if they decide to rule exclusively by court decree for the next 40 years.

  207. 207.

    WaterGirl

    @BethanyAnne: It does feel like piling on, but I don’t think it’s intended that way.

    Most of us don’t read the comments all the way through before we comment, so we have no idea that sometimes 85 people have already replied.

    I don’t read all the way through first, either – if I didn’t reply until I had read all the comments, most threads would be dead before I got to make my comment.

    Cue someone chiming in immediately to say that would be a plus!

    My advice?  Take in the comments that are helpful, and spit out the rest like watermelon seeds.

  210. 210.

    Ken

    @fancycwabs: Do you say that because the Trump campaign has canceled more ads in critical swing states? Or has he been dex-tweeting again, and given the whole plan away?

    “I KNOW I will WIN because the SUPREME COURT has told ME they will SET ASIDE the phony votes and MAKE ME PRESIDENT!!!!  This is WHY smart business people LIKE ME keep all the receipts INCLUDING those for KAVANAUGH’S DEBTS!!!!!  They HAVE to do WHAT I SAY!!!!!!”

  212. 212.

    catclub

    @RandomMonster: Will the Wray/National Security presser be significant, or not?

     

    about as significant as the melania tapes – which was FRIDAY ago.

    destined to be drowned  out by something new.

  213. 213.

    db11

    @OzarkHillbilly: Gang-ups are just another word for group bullying.

    It’s one thing when they’re aimed at obvious trolls. But too often here that fire is aimed at friendlies, and the obvious glee with which some here engage in it is seriously off-putting.

    Somehow some (many/most?) Juicers seem to believe that this dyspeptic nastiness is evidence of political savvy, and just part of playing the game.

    Yes, we should have a thick skin in the face of our enemies, but we shouldn’t need it to be shielded from ostensible allies.

    I think BethanyAnne was more hurt by these exchanges than you’ve acknowledged. (and yes, she did manage a few good lobbies in her retreat).

  215. 215.

    catclub

    @Jeffro: ummm, not sure that works for them to give more influence to California. Unless Biden somehow wins texas but doesn’t win the national popular vote?

  218. 218.

    BethanyAnne

    @zhena gogolia:  It’s ok. I shouldn’t vent here when I’m not committed. The stimulus falling through *again* has me freaked, tbh. I’m worried, and then I watch a Biden speech about making nice with the Republicans, and I’m *more* freaked. But y’all are really right. He’s making a smart play that will expand his lead. I shouldn’t worry. The speech *really* isn’t for me, it just isn’t, and that’s a good thing.

  219. 219.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio

    @BethanyAnne: 
    The press, former Republicans like my brothers-in-law, who hate to think there’s nothing good left in the party of their youth (Eisenhower era). Low-information voters relying on their recollections from 8th-grade Civics classes. People who are anti-Trump but nervous about what they’ve heard for 40 years about the Democratic Party.
    Biden was wooing shy birds out of the bushes with that speech.

  220. 220.

    zhena gogolia

    @BethanyAnne:

    I am so on edge I am snapping at everyone. My poor husband. He has to keep me from openly giving the finger to our neighbor’s Trump signs as we walk by. I’m sorry again. I hope we can all get out of hell some day soon.

  221. 221.

    BethanyAnne

    @zhena gogolia: :) On the plus side, I made garlic noodles for the first time last night, and they were good and we have leftovers. So, it’s not all bad today.

  222. 222.

    BethanyAnne

    @zhena gogolia: I totally get that. I drive through a very Trumpy neighborhood when I go to the pharmacy, and just want to flip them all off. But it’ll be ok. C’mon January.

  223. 223.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @db11: Again, it is what it is and one either deals with it or not. In case you didn’t notice, I’m not defending it, I’m acknowledging it. Most everybody here has been subjected to one at one point or another, some of us (raises hand) more than once. And, as Watergirl noted above, sometimes it is absolutely accidental.

    Maybe you feel I am not being sympathetic. You are right, I’m not. It’s not my job. Besides, BA doesn’t need it.

  229. 229.

    Quiltingfool

    @BethanyAnne:  I think it’s okay to express your misgivings on this site – and it’s okay to criticize your preferred candidate (and I didn’t take your criticism of Biden to be extreme).  I think we are all scared that if we make one tiny complaint about our candidate it means all hell will break loose and the ferret-headed shitgibbon will win.  That is where we are right now, raw to the touch.  I have never expected a President to do everything the way I want – I think President Obama was fantastic, but I didn’t agree entirely with his education platform – but I was looking at it through the lens of a public school teacher in a  rural, poor, white school district.   Urban poor school districts have wholly different set of problems, so fixing both takes much different remedies.  Anyway, don’t shy away from expressing your misgivings – you opened up a good discussion, and I learned much from it.  I’m sorry that some reactions were not very nice, but I think sincere apologies were made, and, really, we are all just hot messes right now!

  231. 231.

    StringOnAStick

    @Quiltingfool: People are on edge right now; There’s too much to lose.  One of my closest out of town friends first texted me she’s been doing a deep dive in moving to Portugal and When I tried to talk her down, she seemed to disappear or just post curt answers until I called her on it, asking if I’d pissed her off.  She’s one of the strongest, well planned people I know, so I was shocked that she felt she’s being crazy about Portugal and was trying to protect me and her other friends from “my current darkness”; she’s that terrified about the upcoming election.

    Combine that with losing her personal icon, RBG, living in smoke and wildfire risk that is on going, losing several other things and organisations due to the fires plus working in a business that is interest rate dependent and seeing the companies are now guessing we’ll have depression era low rates for another decade has her completely freaked out and shunning her friends to protect them from herself.  I’m responding by sending her positive news bits on a daily basis.  Her distress is yet another reason I can’t wait for this election to be over.

  232. 232.

    J R in WV

    @BethanyAnne:

    No! I don’t have any questions or problems. You got your wish, I’m in hell.

    Jeeze, BethanyAnne, this is Balloon Juice. Just tell people who irritate you to get fucked with a rusty farm implement of your choice like the rest of us do!!

    …….             |;~)

  233. 233.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: What are the ethical rules that would apply to a situation in which your client is taking drugs that seriously affect decision-making ability?

    That client asks you to take an action when there is plenty of reason to doubt whether that client can determine what is in their best interests at the moment?

  235. 235.

    ballerat

    Not having covid is a huge electoral advantage for Biden and Harris — Trump set it up to be so, not them. So Trump and Pence will do everything possible to make sure Joe and Kamala lose that advantage. Trump’s already tried at the first debate. He knew he was pos.

    Biden and Harris should not debate in person. It’s an unnecessary risk and it won’t cost them votes. We all know Trump and his crew are plague carriers.

  236. 236.

    ballerat

    The republicans will make sure someone at the debates is asymptomatic and not wearing a mask. They have plenty of people who are infected who have not been publicly identified. Someone will agree to be a Typhoid Mary. They are desperate.

    Watch the R’s who refuses to mask up. The assassin is among them.

  237. 237.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Baud: As a reminder, there is nothing more irrelevant to the presidential campaign than the Vice Presidential debate. Tonight will be no different.

    Disagree emphatically. They’ve taken their best shots at Joe and haven’t come close to denting him. They’ve got exactly one play left: Convince the electorate that Biden is too old and frail to complete his term (hell, convince them he might not last till the Inauguration) and run against the scary nasty dark woman who’ll take over as POTUS.

    This of course depends on Joe showing some sort of physical fragility in the meantime; if he just goes rolling along, all bets are off. My mostly-unscientific guess is that 1/3 of the Thuglican “brains” trust is sticking pins in Biden-shaped voodoo dolls, 1/3 is sacrificing small animals to Cthulhu, and the somewhat sentient remaining 1/3 is beating the bushes for COVID superspreader MAGAts & scheming to slip them into as many of his events as they can.

    But first they have to paint Kamala as scary, nasty & dark as they can. IMO they’re actually hoping she goes after Mikey Dense hammer & tong tonight to push that narrative forward.

    I hope she jiu-jitsus ’em. Start with something like

    How are you feeling, Mr Vice President? I hope you’re feeling well. We’re all concerned about your health, because, you know, if the President’s COVID infection suddenly takes a turn for the worse…

    And when he starts gish-galloping out the lies, laugh in his face:

    Really, Mr Vice President. If you have  nothing to offer the American people but one lie after another – and I have yet to hear a single thing from you that wasn’t a missstatement, deception, or out and out lie – what are you even doing here tonight?

    But that’s just me. The Biden-Harris campaign will have done their homework and know just how to play this – and so will she.

  238. 238.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @BethanyAnne: You got your wish, I’m in hell.

    Posters who actively egg on confrontational politics that will foment a civil war where the other side has all the weaponry – even if they’re too stupid to realize that’s what their tantrums amount to – richly deserve to be in hell.

  240. 240.

    The Fat White Duchess

    @Kay: That’s beautifully worded.  May I quote you else-web? (And if so, how would you want to be credited? ) Thanks!

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