Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Joe Lieberman disappointingly reemerged to remind us that he’s still alive.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

“And when the Committee says to “report your income,” that could mean anything!

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

DeSantis transforms Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Let’s finish the job.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

The words do not have to be perfect.

He really is that stupid.

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

We still have time to mess this up!

This really is a full service blog.

I was promised a recession.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

Optimism opens the door to great things.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Pelosi Moves On The 25th Amendment

Pelosi Moves On The 25th Amendment

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Earlier today, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi teased a press conference tomorrow: “We will be talking about the 25th Amendment.”

Anyone who has been following Donald Trump’s tweets lately, even in the most desultory way, has to have wondered what that amendment has to say about mental capability. Trump is recovering from covid-19, which is known to affect mental processes in some cases, and is taking dexamethasone, a steroid which is known to affect mental processes.

Details are coming out.

The relevant part of the 25th Amendment is Section 4:

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

The Vice President is necessary to declare that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. But Congress has a role too. If Vice President Mike Pence finds it unseemly to initiate action to declare the President incapable, the House is generously offering to investigate the situation and provide cover if necessary.

At any rate, the Commission’s hearings should be interesting.

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

155Comments

  2. 2.

    Elizabelle

    Nancy Smash has their attention.  WaPost:

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Rep. Jamie B. Raskin (D-Md.) plan to introduce legislation Friday that would create a commission to “help ensure effective and uninterrupted leadership” in the presidency.

    The panel would be called the Commission on Presidential Capacity to Discharge the Powers and Duties of Office, “the body and process called for in the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution,” the offices of Pelosi and Raskin said in a statement announcing the move.

    The 25th Amendment formalizes that the vice president takes over the duties of the presidency in the event of a president’s death, inability to perform his duties or resignation from office. It also lays out a process by which a sitting president may be removed from office. Congress’s role in this, however, is limited.

    ….. Raskin introduced a similar measure in 2017 that would establish a congressionally appointed commission of physicians and top leaders who could evaluate the president’s health — both mental and physical — and work with the vice president on a transfer of power.

    At the time, the Maryland Democrat said the move was necessary because Trump had “thrown our country into chaos at every turn” since his inauguration that January.

    “For the security of our people and the safety of the Republic, we need to set up the ‘body’ called for in the 25th Amendment,” Raskin said in 2017. “The president can fire his entire Cabinet for asking the same question tens of millions of Americans are asking at their dinner tables, but he cannot fire Congress or the expert body we set up under the Constitution.”

    …. During an interview Wednesday on ABC News’s “The View,” Pelosi suggested that Trump’s covid-19 medications, which include steroids, may be having an effect on his mental capabilities.
    “I said yesterday to my colleagues, I said there are those who say that the steroids had an impact on people’s thinking. I don’t know, but there are those health-care providers who say that,” Pelosi said. “Also, if you have the coronavirus, it has an impact, as well.”

    Under the 25th Amendment, a president could be declared “disabled” and involuntarily removed from office by joint agreement of the vice president and a majority of the Cabinet, something that has never happened.

    In an event with the 92nd Street Y on Tuesday, Pelosi dismissed any suggestion of the 25th Amendment being used against Trump before the election.
    “I don’t think it would work for this president — this presidency,” she said.

    Because of that toxic, enabling, enfeebled Cabinet.

  3. 3.

    BruceFromOhio

    If Vice President Mike Pence finds it unseemly to initiate action to declare the President incapable, the House is generously offering to investigate the situation and provide cover if necessary.

    PenceBot2016 will rip off his own head and shit in it for his pet fly before he lifted a pinky fingernail against preznit shitwhistle.

    However, to send shitwhistle into a frothing rage-gasm and further tank his election prospects, this is a cold chess move. Madame Speaker can prepare the paperwork, state the paperwork is prepared, and stop there. shitwhistle will set himself on fire, figuratively, and, one hopes, literally.

  4. 4.

    Ken

    Kabuki, since it would never be brought up in the Senate, much less pass both chambers with a veto-proof majority.  But I agree it will be useful to read some of the recent Trump tweetstorms aloud, for people who don’t pay attention to that stuff.

    EDIT:  I’d also hope that they go through with establishing the commission next year.  It’s clearly envisioned by the amendment, and – as with so many things – events have shown it’s necessary.

  6. 6.

    Elizabelle

    Trump is recovering from covid-19, which is known to affect mental processes in some cases, and is taking dexamethasone, a steroid which is known to affect mental processes.

    And he was a sociopathic, malignant narcissist before, without curiosity, and with sundowning.

    Not that the Republicans find anything wrong with that.

  8. 8.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Well, this presumably explains why Pence is heading back to D.C. instead of going to Indianapolis to vote.

  13. 13.

    HumboldtBlue

    @BruceFromOhio:

    However, to send shitwhistle into a frothing rage-gasm and further tank his election prospects, this is a cold chess move.

    That’s my take as well, the screaming from inside the WH and Fox will hit decibels unheard of.

  15. 15.

    dmsilev

    @Cheryl Rofer: Under the theory that “there’s always a Tweet”, how long until someone digs up a Trump tweet from 2014 or so calling Obama unfit for office and removal via the 25th?

    I give it until 9 PM tonight.

  16. 16.

    jl

    When Jason Miller went out and said Whitmer deserved the vigilante kidnapping plot because she committed heart crimes against Trump ( closer paraphrase ‘hatred in her heart against Trump’), was that official executive policy? I’d like an investigation into that.

    Trump shows that he is clearly incapacitated and unfit to do his job now. Used to be he could maintain for the duration of an official appearance.

    I guess the 25th amendment has to say explicitly ‘high as a kite from ‘roids Rx to treat the future covid-19 pandemic.’ Nutso corrupt way the country is run now, someone will say yes it does and we are sunk.

  19. 19.

    Bill Arnold

    @Ken:

    But I agree it will be useful to read some of the recent Trump tweetstorms aloud, for people who don’t pay attention to that stuff.

    Ooooh. Who would be the best Trump Tweet Storm reader?

  24. 24.

    Splitting Image

    Anyone care to suggest an over/under for the number of tweets between now and tomorrow night?

    100? 200? 500?

    In less than four weeks, no one will ever have to pay this person a moment of attention ever again.

  26. 26.

    jl

    Dub had more capacity when knocked out during his colonoscopy.

    Note: added for context for the obvious factual statement above, Dub was still a totally disastrous president and we should not wish for him back.

  27. 27.

    Morzer

    I am sure Trump will react with the calm moderation that is the hallmark of his very stable genius.

  31. 31.

    lamh36

    Trying to do something for my birthday next month. Been a while since I traveled, is it safe to travel to San Fran or LA? It’s been a while since I traveled to the West coast, esp San Fran, which I LOVE, but I forgot about the fires.  So is it even safe to do either city

    My birthday is election week.  So I’m looking at Nov4-Nov8

  32. 32.

    jl

    If Democrats say that Trump was not smart in handing off authority to Pence, then he’ll blow for sure. For Trump, that is far worse than an accusation of mental incapacity.

  34. 34.

    JPL

    It’s long overdue that a law is passed to allow Congress to see the president’s health records.   Silly me, I thought this was resolved after Kennedy hid his affliction.   Unfortunately it this climate, it’s just a stunt.  I hope that Biden comes out in support of the law, because it’s important for the safety of our country.

  38. 38.

    Mai Naem mobile

    Adam Schiff warned these fuckers and I was really impressed with Jamie Raskin during the impeachment hearings. However this ends it didn’t have to come to this.

  40. 40.

    Ken

    @jl: moist cool weather here over weekend. Air quality is good. Covid down.

    I just had the depressing thought that all weather and travel reports will be including that information for quite a while.

  42. 42.

    Tim C.

    @jl: From 2006 on, Dubya at least clearly knew he had done effed up.    Not that it excuses anything, but the man was a huge fuck-up, not a hater.

  44. 44.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Splitting Image:

    In less than four weeks, no one will ever have to pay this person a moment of attention ever again.

    Unless he tries to run again in 2024. But I don’t think that’s likely to happen. If he’s still alive in 2024, he’s going to have a lot to worry about

  47. 47.

    lamh36

    @jl: I have a good friend who lives in LA and she said LA is good right now and should cont.

    She said she beleived SF was good as well, but will def be more so by Nov.

    I really want to go to SF, but LA would be fine.  It really depends on my family and if they want to hang with me too

  48. 48.

    Baud

    I love how we tell Dems to make more noise and when they do, we dismiss it as kabuki or a stunt.

  54. 54.

    Splitting Image

    @Geoduck:

     No, we’re stuck with him until January.

    I think that if Biden wins, Trump will be marginalized even more than W. was after Obama won. Trump will blast out tweets every day demanding that people do this and that, but even his subordinates will quit listening after awhile.

    Mitch McConnell, on the other hand, we’ll be stuck with. Any evil that happens between November and January will be his doing.

  57. 57.

    BruceFromOhio

    @Baud: Interesting. I thought it was a cold chess move as a matter of respect for Madame Speaker and her canny ability to get under the shitwhistles’ skin. Not a stunt, not kabuki. I approve bigly!

  58. 58.

    jl

    @lamh36: Wine country is inoperative at the moment, though. So are Redwood state parks in SF Bay Area. So, I assume you just want to see The City.

    Edit: State Parks around SF should be open by Nov and not burned down. Those down by Santa Cruz are down for a year.

  62. 62.

    Roger Moore

    @lamh36:

    SF is probably better than LA COVID-wise right now.  LA County has had a really hard time bringing our case rate down.  We’re still in the most restrictive category as far as reopening, while SF is in the second-least restrictive.

  65. 65.

    RSA

    @Elizabelle: 

    “I said yesterday to my colleagues, I said there are those who say that the steroids had an impact on people’s thinking. I don’t know, but there are those health-care providers who say that,” Pelosi said. “Also, if you have the coronavirus, it has an impact, as well.”

    Pelosi’s adoption of Trumpisms (“Some people say…”) has to be deliberate, and it made me laugh out loud.

  67. 67.

    trollhattan

    @lamh36:

    Things are cooling off but there are a bunch of ACTIVE fires with low containment rates. Since we’re talking a month from now, so long as there are one or two wet storms the state will generally be open save for the actual fire zones. And what are those but two or three million acres, total?

    IOW I wish we knew. The infamous 2018 Camp Fire started in November and burned for weeks.

  70. 70.

    lamh36

    @jl: I don’t drink, so wine country was never my thing.  If my family visits, then it’ll be mostly the city.  tho I did miss the redwood last time, but with the fires and stuff I already figured it’d likely won’t happen anyway

  71. 71.

    jl

    RE ‘stunt’, just because a corrupt and depraved political party won’t do it’s duty, and a failed corporate media will play along with that party’s BS, that doesn’t that anyone who tries to do their duty and the responsible thing is guilty of pulling stunts.

  72. 72.

    germy

    The Vice President is necessary to declare that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. 

    He’ll never do that.

    He was asked today who won the vice presidential debate and he replied “Donald Trump!”

  73. 73.

    Bill Arnold

    @RSA:

    Pelosi’s adoption of Trumpisms (“Some people say…”) has to be deliberate, and it made me laugh out loud.

    Oh, yeah. She’s been quite good at trolling Trump for at least the last couple of years.

  74. 74.

    lamh36

    @Roger Moore: I’m def leaning to SF.  I’ve visited LA at least 3x and to be honest, I’m not much in the mood to see what I’ve mostly already seen and anything else is likely still not open anyway.

    So yeah…I’m def leaning towards SF…with or without the fam

  75. 75.

    jl

    @lamh36: City itself should be fine. But trollhattan has a point, unless we get rain, probably will still be some fires burning, or still dying down, just outside SF Bay Area.

  80. 80.

    Baud

    Pence-Harris Matchup Draws 58 Million TV Viewers

    NYT > Top Stories / by John Koblin / 7min

    It was the second most-watched vice-presidential debate, according to Nielsen

  82. 82.

    VOR

    @Bill Arnold: Ooooh. Who would be the best Trump Tweet Storm reader?

    The Late Show w/Colbert had both Josh Brolin, in Thanos voice, and Andy Serkis, using his Gollum voice, read Trump tweets.

  83. 83.

    germy

    NEW: Fox News announced that Trump campaign adviser Harlan Z. Hill, a self-described Washington public relations and political consultant, is no longer welcome on their air after he tweeted that Kamala Harris “comes off as an insufferable lying bitch” https://t.co/rKhqIASM1Y— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) October 8, 2020

  84. 84.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Trump is on and off again today on a pandemic relief bill. I won’t quote anything because the stable genius seems to be changing every few minutes.

  85. 85.

    jl

    @laura: Yes, late autumn is usually a nice season, either warm sunny if a long summer season, or refreshing temperate showers. Spring and early summer are weirdest and often the most unpleasant, with unpredictable frigid fog blizzards (much to to dismay of tourists who come and think SF is in California or similar odd notion)

  90. 90.

    lamh36

    Wait…so nobody knows nothin’ bout what going on with Chris Christie? I mean shouldn’t his people be saying “the gov is doing well…just…needs more recuperation”. Just SILENCE. Eerily parallels to what happened with Hermain Cain.

    Is it just me or is it fuq’n weird? Like why aren’t his spokesperson at least trying to stave off the rumors?

  91. 91.

    JPL

    @germy: Jason MIller pretty much said Whitmer deserved what she got, cuz she is mean.   He’s allowed on Fox, even though he’s a dead beat dad.    sad

  93. 93.

    Lacuna Synechdoche

    Trump is right at the time frame where CoViD-19 typically gets a lot worse, if it’s going to. Could happen as early as tomorrow, or as late as the 19th (if the Regeneron delays onset). Most likely it’ll be between the 9th and the 16th – IF he proceeds to that stage.

    So, CoViD may force the 25th Amendment issues upon us any day now. I don’t know if that’ll make the commission Pelosi is announcing moot or even more necessary, but, in any case, the next 7-10 days could be crucial.

  97. 97.

    Calouste

    Ideally IMO the commission should be made up out of people who are not in the executive branch, or not in government at all, and appointed ex officio. So say the department head of neurology at John Hopkins, those kind of people. The reason for that is, besides them being experts in their field of course, that they will have a significant amount of professional prestige to lose if they make an obviously political decision, and it will be harder to put pressure on them than it is on government employees.

  98. 98.

    Mike G

    This is great for two reasons.

    a> It’s absolutely a real and necessary action

    b> It will make Trump’s head explode

  100. 100.

    hueyplong

    @germy: Just reading phrases in the way they’re commonly applied in this context, “He’s a fighter” can be interpreted as ominous.  You don’t have to “fight” something minor.

  101. 101.

    hueyplong

    @JPL:  “What about Ivanka and Jared?   Will no one think of them?”

    I look forward to that magical day.

  102. 102.

    kindness

    Nancy SMASH! knows how to get under Trump’s skin too.  This will no doubt provoke Trump Tweets providing all the reason middle America needs to know not to vote for Trump this time.

  103. 103.

    germy

    It’s starting to feel like their spell is breaking, the vultures are circling and the light is about to shine. Maybe a sunrise, maybe a blaze, maybe something awful. But for all that is holy, BRING IT

    — Xeni Jardin (@xeni) October 8, 2020

  104. 104.

    germy

    We aren’t hearing about the conditions of all the different republicans who have covid because many are doing really badly. Are people investigating this? I am hearing things – some scary things- and I don’t even know almost anyone and the stories got to me.

    — Judd Apatow (@JuddApatow) October 8, 2020

  105. 105.

    germy

    Awww…. he’s pissed he lost a nice gig because of his dumb mouth:

    You can say the most vile things about Trump AND his family, but don’t you dare speak ill of Queen Kamala

    LMFAO

    — HARLAN Z. HILL ?? (@Harlan) October 8, 2020

  106. 106.

    lamh36

    Rumors circulating that Pence got dat ‘Rona.  If so odds they probably waiting until markets close Friday before annoucing it…um hm

    Alls I know is…if he exposed Kamala to COVID, it’s time to “CUT A BITCH”!

  108. 108.

    Calouste

    @lamh36: I would think that if Pence got it and went knowingly  to a public event after the shitgibbon did exactly the same a week earlier, that’s going to play pretty badly except with the 15% or so rabid anti-maskers.

  111. 111.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    @Immanentize:

    Speaking of which, we haven’t heard from Christie recently since he went to the hospital “out of an abundance of caution”, have we?

  114. 114.

    NotMax

    When does Barr announce the DOJ is gearing up to argue before the courts that a Constitutional amendment is unconstitutional?

    //

  115. 115.

    hueyplong

    In the NJ article, the current governor calls Christie “a fighter.”  Normally, that’s ominous, but the governor simply might not know Christie’s condition.

  116. 116.

    germy

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka):

    See comment #83.

    He’s a very young republican operative and ratfucker who looks like a 50 year old man.  He writes books and starts fake PACs like “Bernie Supporters for Trump” etc.

  117. 117.

    Kent

    However, to send shitwhistle into a frothing rage-gasm and further tank his election prospects, this is a cold chess move.

    @HumboldtBlue:That’s my take as well, the screaming from inside the WH and Fox will hit decibels unheard of.

    Nancy is a seriously badass professional level troll.  She makes everyone else look like amateurs.

  125. 125.

    germy

    @persistentillusion:

    There’s a much older “conservative commenter” who looks EXACTLY like him, but I can’t remember his name.

    I don’t think they’re related, but they’re almost twins, except Halan is a 30 year old and the other guy is 60, I think.

    They’re all just profoundly weird people, working hard to ruin this country.

  128. 128.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    @germy:

    Wow. When Fox News doesn’t want you on their channel…

    That’s pretty bad. Also, he boasted about a $25 gin and tonic and drank it through a paper straw lol

    He sounds like a loser

  134. 134.

    TS (the original)

    From wapo

    In an event with the 92nd Street Y on Tuesday, Pelosi dismissed any suggestion of the 25th Amendment being used against Trump before the election.

    My bold. I think she is intending to look at what to do if trump refuses to accept the election result.

  136. 136.

    NotMax

    Disgusting.

    Democratic vice presidential candidate Kamala Harris was picked for her color and her race, an Eastern North Carolina Republican congressman tweeted — and then deleted — during Wednesday’s vice presidential debate.

    Greg Murphy is a first-term Republican representative from Greenville. He was elected in a special election in 2019 to fill the 3rd Congressional District vacancy left by the death of Rep. Walter Jones.

    “@KamalaHarris is a walking disaster. … she was only picked for her color and her race …. is that how we pick our leaders now in America??,” Murphy tweeted.
    [snip]
    Murphy is running for re-election against Democrat Daryl Farrow. His district, which includes parts or all of 17 counties, is considered a safe Republican seat. Source

  137. 137.

    brantl

    If Christie dies, it’s just karma for the people that died on the bridge (and that he’s as healthy as a 3-day beached whale).

  140. 140.

    Brachiator

    At any rate, the Commission’s hearings should be interesting.

    I’ve been away from the Internets getting some work done. But when I check to see what’s happening, things are getting crazier and crazier.

  141. 141.

    Kent

    @brantl:If Christie dies, it’s just karma for the people that died on the bridge (and that he’s as healthy as a 3-day beached whale).

    Why is it that the out of power has-been Republicans like Christie and Cain are the ones that are falling to Covid when the current GOP bench is such a target rich environment of old obese white men?

  142. 142.

    Ihop

    @NotMax: her color and her race?

     

    What about her taste in fall outerwear?

     

    How is she on proper pumpkin spice usage?

    For fuck sake.

  143. 143.

    Brachiator

     

    @kindness:

    This will no doubt provoke Trump Tweets providing all the reason middle America needs to know not to vote for Trump this time.

    Oh yes. Trump must be a very unhappy little camper. Or golfer. He probably never camps.

  145. 145.

    Sm*t Cl*de

    @NotMax:

    she was only picked for her color and her race …. is that how we pick our leaders now in America??

    Said another unaccomplished upward-failing white mediocrity.

  147. 147.

    Dmbeaster

    Its Kabuki, but good kabuki.  It focuses attention on the issue of his diminished capacity, and pollutes everything he does with that possibility.

    I like it.

  148. 148.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @JPL: BotoxBarbie and Jar Jar Kush?

    If Krisp Krispie wants to “fight” he is cordially invited to stick his head back up his arse and fight for air. (Of course, the odds at the moment lean in the direction of him already fighting for air…)

    I had a thought: You know that Christopher Columbus statue that was taken down in Baltimore’s Little Italy and dumped in the Inner Horror? How cool it would be to replace it with one of a real Italian-American hero – Nancy SMASH!

  151. 151.

    Anomalous Cowherd

    There ain’t no flies on me, on me;
    There ain’t no flies on me.
    There might be sties in Mike Pence’s eyes,
    But there ain’t no flies on me.

  152. 152.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Dmbeaster:  It’s actually a Noh play – cuz we all know Yertle will say Noh to it – but that’s OK because it focuses attention on an important issue: Section 4 of the 25th provides (too imprecisely IMO) for how to sideline a POTUS who is incapacitated but refuses to admit it, but it also specifically delegates to Congress the power to remedy this imprecision, via legislation to establish a “body” to determine if & when this has occurred. Any discussion of the issue at the moment will likely bear fruit in legislation passed and signed into law next year if the Democrats take the trifecta.

  154. 154.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    I love how we tell Dems to make more noise and when they do, we dismiss it as kabuki or a stunt.

    Who’s this “we”?

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