Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

So many bastards, so little time.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

When we show up, we win.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

“Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on.”

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

Trump’s cabinet: like a magic 8 ball that only gives wrong answers.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Come on, man.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Town Hall Tonight on ABC

Reader Interactions

355Comments

  5. 5.

    dmsilev

    Streaming on abcnews.com if you prefer that to broadcast.

    Seems to be going reasonably well so far.

  8. 8.

    Kent

    Every time I see him on TV he gets better and better.

    The Black primary voters in South Carolina may truly have saved this country.  We just gotta get through 18 more days and do our part.

  19. 19.

    Anonymous At Work

    I sent multiple links to my friends and family that do politics, just to help boost his numbers.  I have it streaming on 2 of my 4 devices, just in case it helps.  Imagine Trump seeing Biden had better numbers, and the rest is simple…

  26. 26.

    Kent

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka):

    @Baud:

    Why did Clinton choose him to be his press secretary?

    He used to be good.  Watch the 1992 Clinton Campaign movie “The War Room” sometime.  He was damn good before he sold out and became a villager.

  28. 28.

    Mary Ellen Sandahl

    Joe is cooking. His command of details *and* the broad scope is very impressive, and he can put it over in a completely human way.

  29. 29.

    mad citizen

    Savannah said “You’re not someone’s crazy uncle.”  He is 100% America’s crazy uncle.  That’s one of his things.  Getting to first question now.  Asking about covid policy.  Trump saying travel ban solved it.

  36. 36.

    dmsilev

    @Kent: I refuse to watch, but some of the twitter threads I scanned suggest that he’s basically at the same level of crazy as the first debate.

  37. 37.

    Redshift

    I never watch debates because they always make me feel tense and anxious (and I’m normally a very relaxed person.) I thought I would be able to handle the Biden town hall. He’s doing fine, but these Trumper questioners they’ve dredged up (they have to be polite, but still) are unbearable.

  38. 38.

    dr. bloor

    @Baud: I haven’t seen War Room in a while–I wonder what I would think of it now–but there was no question that George was getting a good landing spot in the administration.

  41. 41.

    Kent

    @dmsilev:@Kent: I refuse to watch, but some of the twitter threads I scanned suggest that he’s basically at the same level of crazy as the first debate.

    And more orange and sweaty than normal too.  It’s not just my TV because every other face they show looks normal.

  42. 42.

    Redshift

    @Mary Ellen Sandahl:

    Joe is cooking. His command of details *and* the broad scope is very impressive, and he can put it over in a completely human way. 

    And he’s very good with the questioners, thanking them for their questions, saying he hopes he addressed their concerns.

  45. 45.

    mrmoshpotato

    Rocking out here.  Got Biden on TV for the ratings but practically on mute (because I’m undecided. LOL)

  50. 50.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    @Baud:

    I assume he was useful when he was younger and not a Villager.

    I would hope so

    @Baud:

    Truthfully, I could kind of see why people would think that. I’ve never seen her have to assert herself

  56. 56.

    dmsilev

    One nice thing about dueling town halls is that Biden can give a long extensive answer like this without President Plague Rat interrupting every ten seconds.

  57. 57.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    Joe sounds kind of rough to me, but he’s doing alright. I’m sure Trump is a total shitshow as usual, so it doesn’t matter

  58. 58.

    TheflipPsyd

    I refuse to watch Trump, but George S is absolutely horrible. His questions about raising taxes remind me of the debate he and Gibson moderated in 2016 (I think). Representing the 1 percent again. Why do all the questions  have to be gotcha  questions? Even the ones from supposed progressive audience members. Biden is doing great. He wasn’t  my first, second, or third choice,  but he’s knocking it out of the park. As a fellow transplanted  Delawarean, I am glad to see him doing well.

  60. 60.

    Anonymous At Work

    From what I gather…

    Is NBC really showing scenes from Cannibal Killer Suburban Women 3: The Savannah Guthrie Story?

  61. 61.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    My television was already tuned to NBC, so I couldn’t avoid a second or two. Unfortunately, during that second or two, I heard Trump insist that 85% of people wearing masks end up getting sick anyway. Click.

  62. 62.

    Redshift

    @dmsilev:

    I refuse to watch, but some of the twitter threads I scanned suggest that he’s basically at the same level of crazy as the first debate. 

    People’s theory of his “strategy” in the first debate was:

    • Try to trigger Biden’s stutter and then use the footage in “Biden is senile!” ads
    • Interrupt constantly to keep Biden from getting his message out to a mass audience.

    My belief now is that the first is true (reporters had sources from the debate prep confirming it), but that the second was not based on any strategy, it’s just that Trump doesn’t have enough self-control to not act like an asshole, even when it hurts him. He also can’t bear to have anyone else getting any attention, so he’ll do whatever it takes to make everyone look, even if they hate what they’re seeing.

  67. 67.

    Feathers

    @SiubhanDuinne:  I’m watching it on the YouTube app on my TV. Apparently the ABC News website makes you have a cable subscription to stream, but they are also streaming this live on YouTube. Just search for ABC and it’s there. They’ve got nearly 300,000 viewers between the two different streams I saw.

    ETA: My laptop won’t show me how many are streaming Trump and I refuse to click to see it pop up.

    EATA: Checked the YouTube app on my phone: Trump on NBC:  131K.  Suckers. What does Trump have on NBC?

  71. 71.

    jl

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka): A more cynical view is that Trump smeared and slandered her bosses before the broadcast, after they did a solid for Trump. Wonder if she got a phone call?

    To amplify the Good Book: Pride and lunacy goeth before destruction, and a fool who acts like he is stoned up to his eyeballs before a fall.

    That is from the book of Erasmus 20:20

    @WaterGirl:  Biden gets ‘undecided and independent’ Trumpers and Trump gets disrespectful disgusting plebes and riff raff, and ungrateful The Blacks who he has done more for than anyone since Abe Lincoln. Will be a fun evening.

  73. 73.

    Baud

    Everyone ABC got for this is a plant.  Or really these are the only undecided voters left.  The dregs of the normies.

  76. 76.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Damn, Joe is good. Maybe he’s outnumbered at this Town Hall, but he ain’t outgunned.

  78. 78.

    Quinerly

    @dmsilev: Guthrie pushed him with a study out of University of Washington. He back into the Scott Atlas shit. Brought him up. Then she attacked Atlas’s credentials.

  83. 83.

    Kent

    @Quinerly:@dmsilev: Guthrie pushed him with a study out of University of Washington. He back into the Scott Atlas shit. Brought him up. Then she attacked Atlas’s credentials.

    Actual debates have very carefully curated rules that limit moderator interaction and follow-up.  And basically license the candidates to ramble on with no follow up or fact checking.

    Apparently ad-hoc town halls do not.   OOPS!

  84. 84.

    divF

    How is Trump’s physical stamina ? Is he short of breath, having trouble with physical coordination?

  85. 85.

    Kent

    @divF: It’s the normal unhinged Trump.  He’s got his rant voice on.  He doesn’t look like he is going to collapse.

  86. 86.

    Redshift

    I unmuted on Georgie asking “a followup about the crime bill,” ugh. Dude, it was more than 25 years ago, nobody cares about it except Berners and Republicans, that is, people looking for an excuse to be against Biden!

  87. 87.

    A Ghost to Most

    Shitgibbon, asked at his town hall if he tested negative before the first debate:

    “Maybe I did, and maybe I didn’t.”

  89. 89.

    Anonymous At Work

    @Baud: Someone reposted an old Chris Hayes article on “undecided” voters from 2004 or so and about how, yes, they are derided, but usually for ignorance and the inability/unwillingness to connect their real-world problems to politics.  There is no link because I think it predates the archives…

    That said, remember that 90% of registered Independents are what political scientists call “fraking liars” or “fraking pretentious liars” (aka partisans), 5% are legitimately “independent” in largely noncoherent ways, and the rest are split between various pathologies.

  91. 91.

    Quinerly

    @divF: sitting funny in a very uncomfortable chair for an obese man. Savanah is getting to him.

    He’s not answering the questions. Mostly all women with the questions.

  93. 93.

    Quinerly

    Savanah hitting him about taxes.

    “Who do you owe $400 million to?”

    Trump, “Tiny percentage of my net worth.”

  94. 94.

    Elizabelle

    Just got home; have Biden on ABC online.  You could not pay me to watch Trump, and screw NBC for giving him the forum.

    So:  NBC has Trump both Thursdays; next week is the debate moderated by Kristin Welker.

  96. 96.

    Anonymous At Work

    @Kent: Seems like solo town halls would be the better forum for general presidential elections.  Lower levels, like primaries, Senate, Governor, Congress, etc. can have debates, new information is possible.  But by this time, things are known as well as possible.

  97. 97.

    guachi

    Biden’s really practiced his answers. There are only so many questions a voter is likely to answer and Biden clearly has a thorough answer for basically anything anyone is likely to ask.

    Good preparation.

  98. 98.

    jl

    @Redshift: Biden is a man for all seasons, a dangerous commie who wants to sic the depraved riff raff on suburban white women and take all the T-ball dads’ stuff, and also the irredeemable racist and classist who wants lock them all away in jail forever.

  99. 99.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    @jl:

    Hah! Could be. It’s always nice to see Trump suffering consequences for his own actions every once in awhile

  103. 103.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Elizabelle: Just got home; have Biden on ABC online. You could not pay me to watch Trump, and screw NBC for giving him the forum.

    Same here.  But Biden on TV not online.

  104. 104.

    mad citizen

    @divF: he’s much more coherent and physically OK than I expected.  Savannah asked who he owes money to.  He says he is extremely under levered, and took some loans as favors when institutions wanted to loan him money.  Says he doesn’t owe Russia anything.  Can’t release taxes until IRS audit is done.

  110. 110.

    Quinerly

    @guachi: Trump didn’t prepare.

    This is my shocked face.

    “I don’t owe money to sinister people.”

    “$400 million is a peanut.”

  111. 111.

    Mary G

    Biden isn’t generating any sound bites and he gets stuck on a word here and there, but he clearly knows his stuff. He was honest about some of the 1994 crime bill being bad. George tried a gotcha and Biden blew right by him. The lady who asked the question was nodding along.

  113. 113.

    Anonymous At Work

    @Baud: Pretentious media types see them as the “real deciders” because it allows the media to play both sides off against each other while retaining morale superiority.

    And that’s the charitable explanation.

  114. 114.

    Kent

    @Anonymous At Work:

    @Baud: Someone reposted an old Chris Hayes article on “undecided” voters from 2004 or so and about how, yes, they are derided, but usually for ignorance and the inability/unwillingness to connect their real-world problems to politics.  There is no link because I think it predates the archives…

    That said, remember that 90% of registered Independents are what political scientists call “fraking liars” or “fraking pretentious liars” (aka partisans), 5% are legitimately “independent” in largely noncoherent ways, and the rest are split between various pathologies.

    I know actual undecided voters in my family.  It’s deliberate ignorance and tuning out of all politics and taking the general attitude of “pox on all their houses” and then coming around at the last minute and trying to make some sort of personal a-political “character judgement” about the two candidates.  Who you want to have a beer with sort of thing.   Hillary is shrill, Trump seems like a nice guy level of analysis.

    Fuck them.  They don’t deserve to be listened to.  In no other area of society do we actually give a microphone to people who make themselves deliberately ignorant.  Do we do technology reviews by people who can’t be bothered to learn about how computers work?  Do we do movie reviews by people who don’t actually watch movies?  Do we let people with no knowledge or interest make any other important decisions in our world?   Nope, only in politics do we have a fetish about undecided voters.

  116. 116.

    JPL

    @mad citizen: I had to switch back to Biden cuz trump was giving Guthrie the Wallace treatment.   If I keep spouting nonsense, she can’t ask follow ups.

  119. 119.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    @Quinerly:

    Thanks for watching it so we don’t have to. What are the facial expressions like on the voters asking him questions?

  120. 120.

    mad citizen

    There was an obvious planted question for trump from a woman: “Corporate tax rate is a hot button issue…”  What?

  122. 122.

    Elizabelle

    I am liking Biden answering questions without MOFO Trump sticking his ass in.  And this is a good Q about the Supreme Court.  Just don’t pledge not to pack the Court, Joe.  Please.

  124. 124.

    sralloway

    @mad citizen: Loved that comeback. When I switched over, I saw Trump and thought of Galaxy Quest when Jason Nesmith told Sarris, “You’re sweating.” Trump is sweating and looks wet under the lights.

  128. 128.

    Princess

    I’m listening to Biden tonight and TBH I think this is the first “debate” I’ve really listened to all season.

    Biden is coming across as a very normal guy who has thought hard about a lot of things and is pretty smart and quick.

    I can’t even imagine having a president who is a normal person at this point. It would be so restful.

  129. 129.

    mad citizen

    @Quinerly: Yes, agree, he is sweating a lot.  Miami.  Now the scotus hypocrisy question.  Trump BSing it.  All BS.  All the time.

  135. 135.

    Rina99

    The cable is out here, so I can’t watch on TV. Based on the comments,  it seems preparedness actually works for Biden. Trump appears to be acting like Trump, so…yeah.

  140. 140.

    Leto

    Can we reserve a special rocket to fire Stephanopolus straight into the sun after this? Preferable at the next commercial break?

  141. 141.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    @Kent:

    Which exactly ZERO “undecided” voters care about.

    Oh, but according to the very savvy press, that’s just “Democratic wishcasting” dontcha know

  143. 143.

    guachi

    @Princess: Biden is coming across as a very normal guy who has thought hard about a lot of things and is pretty smart and quick.

    Yes. It’s a good one sentence summary of Biden’s strength.

  144. 144.

    Quinerly

    “within closed rooms, Dems like ACB.”

    I’m paraphrasing.

    “Never seen a human being treated as badly as Kavanaugh.”

    I’m on my phone. Can’t type out this rambling answer on the Supreme Court. He didn’t talk about obvious things with ACB.

  153. 153.

    Quinerly

    “Would you like to see Roe vs Wade overturned?”

    Trump, “I don’t want to give her a signal on how to rule.”

    Rambling answer.

  154. 154.

    Leto

    George: how is the Biden administration going to sic the DOJ on the Trumpov admin?

    Biden: they’re not MY DoJ!

    Fucking ty, Joe!

  155. 155.

    mad citizen

    Trump is a human cartoon.  He reminds me of when larry david tries to bullshit on his show.  I’m laughing now that people ask this guy any question to see what this great mind is going to tell us.

  156. 156.

    Kent

    @dmsilev:So much for the “Truth and Retaliation Commission”. Sob.

    He’s talking to Republican voters.  18 days from the election it’s all about making it safe for Republicans to cross the aisle and vote for Biden.

    Come January 20th law breaking can still be prosecuted.

  159. 159.

    Steeplejack

    I was reading in the bedroom, but I had to rouse myself to come get on the computer to see the Trump shitshow after reading some Twitter stuff. I’m a little nonplussed, because from what I have seen in the last few minutes he seems remarkably calm—for him—although the actual content of his words is complete bullshit, of course.

    Savannah Guthrie is pressing him a fair amount, which is good.

    I’m looking forward to what Rachel Maddow—with Joy Reid and Nicolle Wallace, I hope—makes of these events.

  160. 160.

    Princess

    More thoughts: Biden knows what he thinks and isn’t trying to hide it. He comes across as very honest. You may agree or disagree with his view, but he’s calling it the way he sees it.

    Also, I don’t mind the George S GOP talking points. It gives Biden a chance to bat them down in front of an audience, and he’s doing it easily. George hasn’t stumped him once, again, because Biden knows where Biden stands.

  163. 163.

    Kent

    undecided voter

    “Mr. President, you are so handsome it makes my knees weak”

    For real.  That just happened.

  166. 166.

    Anonymous At Work

    @Kent: Some weirdness here but technology should, to some extent, be judged by how well your grandparents or Luddite friends use it.

    The article was good because it talked about how the disconnect between a trucker wondering why his non-union company lacked the health care plan a previous union employer did.  There’s ignorance that can be cured, somehow, and part of it may be not having the capacity or willpower to stay informed.

    I put a lot of blame about this on the media.  By staying neutral on content and hewing to a both-sides style objectivity, the media is actually harming their readers/viewers.  And yes, the media’s overhyping of “independents” and “moderates” and “undecideds” creates a pretentious comfort zone for too many.

    To the extent that a minimum wage worker doesn’t have time or energy after 2 40-hour a week jobs…that’s something else.  I’m not so quick to cast all blame.

  167. 167.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    This Fucking lady tells trump he’s got a great smile before asking her question.  Fuck off, you nut!

  168. 168.

    Steeplejack

    Okay, had to mute it. A “slightly leaning Democrat” woman prefaced her question with a shameless fangirl gush about how handsome Trump is when he smiles. Democrat, my ass. And hella bad taste.

  169. 169.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud:  Yeah, that was cool.  Very human.

    ETA:  I am loving ABC Go.  It mutes the commercials.  Blessed silence.  Online, I just get ABC station promos (special on John Lennon coming up soon).

  170. 170.

    Quinerly

    Telling a Black woman that he has a great relationship with African Americans.

    Now White Clinton Woman voter (now undecided) tells Trump he has a great smile. He should smile more.

  178. 178.

    Jeffro

    @mad citizen: that whole immigration exchange was a joke…

    Guthrie now correcting trumpov’s BS on DACA

    trumpov now lying about that (shocker!)

    …annnnnd we’re right back to immigrant murderers and rapists…

  179. 179.

    Steeplejack

    Guthrie has done a fair job of pressing Trump on the questions a bit, but she has done a shit job of fact-checking or calling him on his bald-faced lies.

  181. 181.

    Yutsano

    I’m coming into this late, but Unca Joe has been really good so far. A couple rough spots but still really solid. “I can’t be Irish because I don’t hold a grudge.”

  184. 184.

    Kent

    @Anonymous At Work: You missed my point.  People have a right to be ignorant.  I’m ignorant about a lot of things my kids are obsessed about, like KPop.  What I dislike is how our media fetishizes this ignorance and gives it the microphone at these sorts of events.  We don’t really do that in any other walk of life.

  185. 185.

    Ohio Mom

    Leto @140:
    Can I have dibs on lighting the fuse on the rocket sending Stephanous into space?

  186. 186.

    Steeplejack

    Okay, over to Rachel Maddow. Might have to break out the Hendrick’s and tonic. Got a nice, fat lime at the grocery today.

  187. 187.

    Quinerly

    @cain: he is insistent that they didn’t discuss “the obvious.”

    Now he is ranting about “We had no borders when I came to office.”

  193. 193.

    Zzyzx

    @Old Dan and Little Ann:

    ‘Gilderoy Lockhart, Order of Merlin, Third Class, Honorary Member of the Dark Force Defence League and five times winner of Witch Weekly’s Most-Charming-Smile Award – but I don’t talk about that. I didn’t get rid of the Bandon Banshee by smiling at her!’

  195. 195.

    Fair Economist

    @dmsilev:

    So much for the “Truth and Retaliation Commission”. Sob.

    Not at all. Biden said prosecutions will be decided by those he appoints as prosecutors. And at this point anybody honest is white-hot to break up the Republican criminal enterprise. All Biden has to do is not get in their way, and that’s what he said he will do.

  202. 202.

    Steeplejack

    @Quinerly:

    “We had no borders when I came to office.”

    That and the whole “We had to rebuild the military” thing both drive me nuts. He’s been blatting that out for four years, and I don’t think anyone has ever said it’s bullshit. They just seem to ignore it.

  203. 203.

    Anonymous At Work

    @Kent: Agreed on everything but this:

    Don’t sleep on KPop.  They single-handedly launched the Twitter battles that destroyed #whitelivesmatter and #proudboys

  204. 204.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: Why can’t Biden do town halls with the League of Women voters?  I get the they have no control over the debates, but if Biden can work out this deal with ABC, why not work one out with the league of women voters and stream it?

  207. 207.

    Adam L Silverman

    New open thread on the less than two hours old, it was only a 1/2 hour old when I started typing, is up.

  209. 209.

    Ian

    @Anonymous At Work:

    That was a good article.  The gist of it was this “there is this bloc of undecided voters out there.  They hate politics, but their parents raised them that it is their civic duty to vote.  They don’t pay any attention till the last month, they have a weird sense of how the government works and what it actually does, and they have a weird proto-isolationist viewpoint.

    The article came up at lot in the post 2016 discussions of where the F* did all these last minute Trump voters come from?  Between him and Comey, they did their best to appeal to all the right (wrong?) buttons for these kind of voters at the close of 16.

  213. 213.

    mad citizen

    Turned over to Biden who is still going.  The contrast to a candidate who can talk intelligently using facts about all the subjects is jarring.  Obama.  Hillary.  Joe.  Kamala on deck.

  215. 215.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Princess:

    Also, I don’t mind the George S GOP talking points. It gives Biden a chance to bat them down in front of an audience, and he’s doing it easily. George hasn’t stumped him once, again, because Biden knows where Biden stands.

    I agree and Joe’s response to the repeated pushing on “court packing” was a great example. Just kept up the light footwork and George had to chase him around the ring and never landed a solid blow.

  220. 220.

    cain

    @Baud: who needs corporate backing when you have twitch.tv?

    Just put it on twitch the networks will be forced to follow along

  225. 225.

    Sayne

    Ugh.

    There’s no way to get to net-zero carbon without Nuclear power.  It drives me totally bonkers that it’s such a controversial topic.

    BUT CHERNOBYL.  

    Nuclear accidents are the plane crashes of the energy generation world.  They’re big and scary and draw attention… but on a whole nuclear plants are much safer than coal plants.

    Coal plants are the auto crashes of the same world.  They’re diffuse so we don’t recognize the threat.  But the health and environmental effects of coal extraction, burning and waste storage (coal ash emits far more radioactive material into the environment than nuclear plants do, because there’s no means of catching it) are HORRIBLE for the environment.  Way worse than properly designed and regulated nuclear power.

    Drive me bonkers.

  226. 226.

    Jeffro

    @TheflipPsyd: Too funny.  We’ve been back in VA for about 6-7 years now but still have lots of connections in the First State.

    We got back up to Dewey Beach late this past summer for 4 days and it was like “ahhhhhh” – so nice!

  231. 231.

    Kent

    @Ian:That was a good article.  The gist of it was this “there is this bloc of undecided voters out there.  They hate politics, but their parents raised them that it is their civic duty to vote.  They don’t pay any attention till the last month, they have a weird sense of how the government works and what it actually does, and they have a weird proto-isolationist viewpoint.

    Of course there is.  There always is.  The point is we shouldn’t be letting them ask all the questions at these sorts of events.  Imagine how different these town halls would be if:

    • Teachers were asking questions about education
    • Doctors and nurses were asking questions about health care policy
    • Farmers were asking questions about agricultural policy
    • Immigrants were asking questions about immigration policy
    • Environmental scientists were asking questions about climate change
    • Black people asking questions about civil rights and voting rights
    • Economists asking questions about economic policy
    • etc.

    instead of a bunch of deliberately ignorant people or partisan liars asking random stupid questions that make my head hurt.

  232. 232.

    The Thin Black Duke

    People on my FB feed: The media is being mean to Trump again.

    Who cares what these assclowns think?

  237. 237.

    MagdaInBlack

    Watching Hal Sparks live stream trump. Hal makes it bearable. He stops the stream and explains and comments.

  238. 238.

    Jay

    Siena/NYT polls suggests Graham has polled significantly better as he's gotten the opportunity to preside over cordial, collegial confirmation hearings. If it's tight, Feinstein's praise and (literal) embrace of Graham might just cost Harrison the race. https://t.co/zuoD9RzIzM— Will Stancil (@whstancil) October 15, 2020

  241. 241.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    @Sayne:

    The problem with nuclear power is the waste that gets left behind. It will still be radioactive for 10s of thousands of years

  243. 243.

    Elizabelle

    Biden:  “Trump gets laughed at — literally, not figuratively — when he goes to the United Nations …”

  245. 245.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @khead: I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to be rude. Still, I can’t laugh at these idiots because they ain’t no joke.

  246. 246.

    Omnes Omnibus

    “I give him some credit.  Our reputation in tatters.  Etc.  But Trump hasn’t literally shit in his hand and thrown it at any head of state yet.  So yea?!”  Damning with faint praise and doing it well.

  249. 249.

    Kent

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka):

    @Sayne:

    The problem with nuclear power is the waste that gets left behind. It will still be radioactive for 10s of thousands of years

    Nuclear waste disposal isn’t a scientific or technical problem.  It’s a political problem.

  250. 250.

    dmsilev

    I can always tell when the next thread is by Adam, because the arrow widget over on the right side of the page is almost a whole screen in height…

  252. 252.

    Kropacetic

    @Anonymous At Work: By staying neutral on content and hewing to a both-sides style objectivity, the media is actually harming their readers/viewers.  And yes, the media’s overhyping of “independents” and “moderates” and “undecideds” creates a pretentious comfort zone for too many.

    A naive person’s idea of “savvy.”

  255. 255.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Baud: At this point, “undecided voters” are Republicans who love Republicans but maybe might not like Trump or cant bring themselves to admit to it publicly.

    Of course all the questions are fucking terrible.

  258. 258.

    Steeplejack

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    It is very good. I drink it sparingly because of the expense and also because I’m more of a rum-and-tonic guy (Mount Gay), but once in a blue moon I just need a dirty martini with a couple of fat Mezzetta olives or an ice-cold gin and tonic with lime. My only complaint is the bullshit moonshine brown bottles. Hard to pour from, and I can never gauge how much I have left.

    A few months ago we had a hilarious conversation at Sighthound Hall about what things you would want a trusted friend to “take care of” in the event of your untimely demise. I said the only thing I would want is for whoever cleaned out my refrigerator to know that the gin chilling in the low-end Bombay bottle is Hendrick’s, not Bombay. Nice clear bottle where you know what’s what.

  264. 264.

    mali muso

    Just turned on the Biden town hall about 15 minutes ago.  Jayzus, that question (commentary?) from the “undecided” dipshit about “Peace in the Middle East” was so painful.  Has it all been this bad?

  267. 267.

    dmsilev

    Stupid question, not quite at the level of 2016’s “say something nice about the other candidate”, but getting there.

  268. 268.

    Ian

    @Kent: I don’t disagree with you, these forums would be better if people who knew what they were talking about asked the questions.

    The point of the article is a lot of these people don’t give a shit about politics the way you and I do.  The point of these ‘town hall debates’ is to give ABC and NBC ratings.  That’s why the morons are running the thing at the same time.  I have no idea why they decide every four years that we the people need to be represented by the least informed among us, but I suspect the reason being to do with their bottom line and a desire for low info repeat news.  I also suspect that getting activists and people who cared about issues would create a harder to control format, with a greater possibility that someone who cares about these issues creating a disruption for the producers.

    My 2 cents, thanks for taking the time to engage with me.

  272. 272.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    @Kent:

    Yes, that’s true. However, how can there be any guarantee that the underground sealed containers of nuclear waste will not leak into the surrounding soil and water table at some point thousands of years from now? We would only be giving our future descendants one more headache to deal with; especially if our civilization falls and another less advanced civilization takes our place

  275. 275.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud:

    FWIW

    Trigger Alert: I’m about to say something that will upset many people reading my Twitter feed tonight.My group of undecided voters say that the more Trump speaks, the worse he looks.— Frank Luntz (@FrankLuntz) October 16, 2020

  285. 285.

    patrick II

    @Kent:

    I also think that independence allows them to think of themselves as fair and unprejudiced. They don’t think of themselves as partisan, prejudiced and unable to weigh the objective truth as the rest of us are. Much like Amy Gooney Barrett.

  286. 286.

    mali muso

    @Baud: Guess I’m glad to have missed it.  Really only tuned in to do my part to help the viewing numbers and ratings.

  288. 288.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Steeplejack: Yeah the Hendricks bottle does suck. Most of my gin drinking happens in the spring and summer. This time of year I usually switch to whiskey and such. I have been making martinis more since I learned that dry vermouth can be used in place of white wine when cooking. I used to feel bad buying it because so much went to waste on account of my liver would give out if I had to use up an entire bottle of vermouth on martinis before the flavor went off.

  291. 291.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    I thought Biden did fine. Didn’t watch a second of Trump but I’m sure Joe was miles better than Cheeto Benito.

  293. 293.

    Redshift

    @mad citizen:

    There was an obvious planted question for trump from a woman: “Corporate tax rate is a hot button issue…” What?

    Anand Giridharadas on Twitter ID’ed her as a Senior VP for Wealth Management at UBS.

  294. 294.

    Kent

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka):

    @Kent:

    Yes, that’s true. However, how can there be any guarantee that the underground sealed containers of nuclear waste will not leak into the surrounding soil and water table at some point thousands of years from now? We would only be giving our future descendants one more headache to deal with; especially if our civilization falls and another less advanced civilization takes our place.

    My solution would be to bury it in the deep ocean subduction zone trenches where it will be sucked into the earth’s mantle and be disintegrated.    Sea water is actually an extremely effective radiation barrier.   We don’t actually consider doing that because it isn’t reasonably retrievable and that was one of the criteria for nuclear waste storage.  That we can get it back if we change our minds or develop new technologies.

  295. 295.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    @Baud:

    Technologically less advanced than we are as well as not having a scientific understanding of radioactivity. They wouldn’t understand what they’re dealing with. I assume nuclear waste is disposed of in geologically stable areas

  297. 297.

    Skepticat

    @Redshift: He’s doing fine, but these Trumper questioners they’ve dredged up (they have to be polite, but still) are unbearable.

    I thought that all but the one asking him to applaud tRump’s foreign policy were decent. (And that classy guy walked out early.) Even those who asked pointed questions—which are the point of an actual debate—sometimes ended up nodding in agreement with much of what Joe said. I was very pleased with how well he handled less than fawning questions as well as all the others.

  298. 298.

    Jerry

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    I thought Biden did fine. Didn’t watch a second of Trump but I’m sure Joe was miles better than Cheeto Benito.

    Yup, he did a fine job. It was a reminder of how a politician answers questions. He stuck to his talking points and related to people on a personal level. It was refreshing to see.

  301. 301.

    Mary G

    @Jerry: He’s still in the studio, wearing a mask, and talking to the few audience members, also wearing masks, from a good distance. What a way to model good behavior.

  302. 302.

    jl

    I had to go do something constructive. Josh Marshall’s twitter says Trump, or some Trumpster, is shitting all over Mr. Rogers. WTF? Is that true, if so, how did that happen?

  304. 304.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Steeplejack: Yeah I get the smaller bottles of Martini & Rossi. Not a vermouth snob either, at least in martinis. Got a buddy who is particular about the sweet vermouth his Manhattans are made with

  306. 306.

    Humanities Prof

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: It’s sort of funny the things that these people think are insulting.

    I’m thinking that after the last four years, the idea of President Mister Rogers would sound pretty damn appealing to a lot of Americans (at least those of us old enough to know who Mr. Rogers is, anyway).

  308. 308.

    TheflipPsyd

    @Jeffro: Grew up in Philadelphia so we went “down the shore” but after we moving here, we try to go to the beach as much as possible. Cape Henlopen State Park is our favorite. Miss it so much. Haven’t  been to the beach since before the pandemic.  Actually, who am I kidding? — I haven’t been further than ten miles from my home since March 13th.

  310. 310.

    Jerry

    @Mary G:

    @Jerry: He’s still in the studio, wearing a mask, and talking to the few audience members, also wearing masks, from a good distance. What a way to model good behavior.

    Yeah, I’m seeing that on Twitter. That’s pretty darn awesome.

  312. 312.

    Mary G

    Joni Ernst getting slapped around by the moderator in her debate tonight:

    While everyone’s paying attention to the presidential town halls, the biggest moment in the #IASen race just happened in their final debate: pic.twitter.com/Ru3Qwyv8iv— Pat Rynard (@patrynard) October 16, 2020

    Asked her the current price of corn or soybeans, she says $5.50; he says it’s $10.00+. Greenfield just sitting there laughing at her. Sad!

  313. 313.

    Marcopolo

    A little OT but I just saw a Cindy McCain Biden ad. It was outstanding!

    As to the town halls, I watched Biden’s. I think he did fine. His answers were not as crisp as they could have been but they were comprehensive, showed he had a good grasp & deep knowledge of important issues.

    My favorite response was to the guy who wanted Biden to give Trump credit for foreign policy successes. You could see from his facial expression that he did not like Biden setting him straight.

  315. 315.

    jl

    @Mary G: I think they were talking about breakeven price. Looking like you don’t have a clue about that is much worse than not knowing the current price.

  316. 316.

    The Moar You Know

    Yes, that’s true. However, how can there be any guarantee that the underground sealed containers of nuclear waste will not leak into the surrounding soil and water table at some point thousands of years from now? We would only be giving our future descendants one more headache to deal with; especially if our civilization falls and another less advanced civilization takes our place

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka):  it’s not stored in containers.  Nuclear waste can be safely contained for millions of years, not that it needs to be; most of it, within several hundred years, is no more radioactive than the ore it was mined from in the first place.

    As Kent said, it’s a political problem, not a scientific or safety problem.

  318. 318.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Steeplejack: Not sure if Airport Martini is supposed to be an insult – once upon a time air travel was glamorous, so it could be a compliment, or at least not an insult.

  319. 319.

    jl

    @Mary G: I wonder if farmers, in places like Iowa, watch these things more than other people do. Does anyone know?

    From personal experience, I know they listen through endless droning ag marketing reports during early breakfast. I remember one for stone fruits  that started at 5AM. Then there was one on hay and dairy feed crops. So it occurred to me that farmers are more willing to put up with these shows than others.

  320. 320.

    Ohio Mom

    I started watching Biden late and I missed some because I was trying to keep up with this thread but what impressed me is how carefully Biden tailored his answers to the people who asked them.

    He had to know that insurance salesman with his question about World peace is breaking outsell over, isn’t Trump great? was playing back Fox News talking points.

    Biden started by bringing up lots of different aspects of foreign relations (as if to say, That’s a mighty incomplete view of things you got there bub), threw in a very small bone about Israel, and made the point that there are more soldiers in Afghanistan than when he left the Vice Presidency very casually, just a tangental by-the-way.

    He was so gentle with that insurance salesman, even as he shredded him to bits.

    For the PT with the transgender daughter and the gentleman who wanted to know what Biden would continue to do with his platform if he (god forbid) loses, Biden was frank, genuine, unguarded, warm.

    Don’t know if I believe the story about the gay couple being so out back in Biden’s high school days though. Weren’t gay PDAs illegal back then? Not that I think one small tall tale matters.

  321. 321.

    Steeplejack

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    It was weird. I don’t think it was an insult—I thought I detected a bit of a Rat Pack/​Ultralounge vibe in that part of the article—but it came out of left field in this ultra-geeky discussion of esoteric vermouths that I’d never heard of, much less seen in the wild.

  322. 322.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    @The Moar You Know:

    From the American Chemical Society: 

    Highly radioactive waste, often called high-level waste, comes mainly in two forms. One is leftover fuels that were used in nuclear power plants to generate electricity. The other is the waste made by facilities involved in nuclear weapons production or by facilities that reprocess and recycle used power plant fuel.

    All these wastes can remain dangerously radioactive for many thousands of years. For that reason, they must be disposed of permanently, experts say.

    Thousands of years. And I was talking about whatever means would be used to permanently store this waste. I imagine it would be a lot like landfill with special lining

  325. 325.

    Jay

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka):

    and the slight problem that it’s not affordable with out massive public subsidies through out the whole life cycle of the reactor, and of course from the digging of the raw ore out of the ground, to the end when you bury the waste back in the ground, hoping the leaks only kill workers slowly.

    Etc.

  326. 326.

    Mary G

    @jl: You remember correctly:

    i am from NE – those prices are all over the news, all the time. It really isn’t arcane knowledge there.— Lisa Glass (@LMplusG) October 16, 2020

    ETA:

    I'm pretty sure this question is on the kindergarten entrance exam in Iowa.— Nick Vucic (@npv708) October 16, 2020

  328. 328.

    The Moar You Know

    Thousands of years. And I was talking about whatever means would be used to permanently store this waste. I imagine it would be a lot like landfill with special lining

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka):  No.  it’s called “vitrification”.   I’ll let you look up the details.  Quite effective.  Lasts millions of years.  But reactor waste is a small percentage of our overall nuclear waste stream, which, again, has a danger span of hundreds of years, not thousands.

  330. 330.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Steeplejack: I might try something better if I can find it in a small bottle but I’d much rather skimp on vermouth than gin.

  333. 333.

    Matt McIrvin

    @HumboldtBlue: My parents used to go to Lewes every summer. Eventually they moved to Colonial Beach, VA, a place with a sort of Lewes-like vibe though it’s on the Potomac rather than the ocean.

  334. 334.

    jl

    @Mary G: Thanks, there is no drone like an agricultural report drone.

    I should curse them because waking up early in the morning as a tyke, I heard the words ‘futures market’ and ‘options strike price’, and wonder if that lead me down the wrong path in life

    Edit: I watched the clip, and I think the disaster was that Ernst looked like she didn’t even understand what the words meant, far worse than getting the ‘current’ price wrong (doesn’t even mean much, spot price, current forward or futures price?). But going blank on breakeven price? She deserves to lose the farm vote on just that alone

    Edit: but what I am curious about is if the farm audience is more likely to watch these political talkythons? I know farmers know the crop prices by heart, and they are always running through their heads.

  335. 335.

    zhena gogolia

    If your vote for Biden hinges on any answer he might give about fracking or transgender issues or, really, any answer at all about almost any policy issue, then you're just not taking the stakes in the election seriously enough.— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) October 16, 2020

  336. 336.

    Steeplejack

    Goddamn it, Lawrence O’Donnell is running off the rails on the question of what Joe Biden wants to do about the Supreme Court! He played a clip of George Stephanopoulos trying to pin down Biden—which Biden handled well—and then O’Donnell started hammering the Biden campaign spokeswoman on his show about the same thing. “Don’t the American people have a right to know his position?” Unusually stupid for O’Donnell.

    I wish someone would tell these nimrods that Biden is keeping his tactical lines open and that there’s no need for him to telegraph ahead of time what he—with the advice and consent of Nancy Pelosi and, I hope, a Senate majority—plans to do next year.

  338. 338.

    Steeplejack

    I’m glad I saw so little of the town halls. Just the short clips of George Stephanopoulos that Lawrence O’Donnell is showing are making my blood boil. Serenity now!

  340. 340.

    Ohio Mom

    Steeplejack:

    All this questioning of Biden, asking him if he will “pack the court” is doing a disservice by dis-educating the public. It’s not up to the President, it’s Congress’s call.

    I wish Biden would point this out more clearly. He did have a good answer to the question, “Would he go after Trump?” “No, that’s up to the Department of Justice. Who are not the President’s private lawyers.”

  341. 341.

    Steeplejack

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Dang, I love Colonial Beach! Only been there once, and that was, jeez, over 10 years ago now, but I really liked the vibe. I remember thinking “This could be Rehoboth Beach before it got popular.” It’s high on my list of places to look at if by some miracle I win the lotto. I should drive down there for a day trip to check it out now.

    My brother has a nice house in Rehoboth Beach, and I enjoy going down there, although I haven’t been in over a year. He and his gay posse have 30 years’ worth of memories of going to Rehoboth from D.C, ever since they all came to the big city and started their careers. That was the beach town they sort of took over, at least in terms of not getting a lot of homophobia and finding some measure of acceptance. Not nearly as much of an issue now, of course.

  343. 343.

    WaterGirl

    @Ohio Mom: They are so interested in playing gotcha in the hopes of getting a scoop that they have forgotten the fucking plot.  They have forgotten that there’s a madman, literally and figuratively, in the white house.

  344. 344.

    James E Powell

    @The Moar You Know:

    As Kent said, it’s a political problem, not a scientific or safety problem.

    It’s a political problem because it is an understanding of science problems. Medical profession had to drop the word nuclear from nuclear magnetic resonance imaging because patients were afraid to do it.

    The word nuclear conjures up nightmare scenarios shown in a lot of movies, TV series, books, over the years. We don’t trust “industry” scientists because they are always going to say that whatever the industry wants to do make money is no problem.

  345. 345.

    Steeplejack

    @jl:

    You triggered a childhood memory there. I remember when we visited my grandparents in rural Tennessee my grandfather was always up at the crack of dawn with the snowy black-and-white TV tuned to the morning farm report. He would listen to the seemingly incomprehensible drone and then abruptly switch off in the middle of a sentence—after he heard whatever he was listening for. At various times they raised cows, corn or tobacco—sometimes a combination.

  346. 346.

    Citizen Alan

    @Baud: If Justice Serena Joy gets her way, I’m pretty sure the Republic of Gilead will have no plans for dealing with nuclear waste leaking into the ground water beyond praying harder.

  347. 347.

    Kent

    @Jay:

    @Kent:

    Hanford disagrees.

    Water is an excellent radiation barrier.  What happened at Hanford was the waste itself leaked out of the all the temporary wartime storage containers and penetrated into the ground water.  Separate issue.

    Hardened containers of waste send deep into the ocean subduction zones and buried deep into the ocean sediments would have none of those issues.  There isn’t groundwater down there and it is an extremely stable environment.  Long-term (geological time) it will slowly disappear into the earth’s mantle.   We don’t do it because it would violate international treaties and would be to difficult to retrieve if we ever changed our minds.  So political issues.  But strictly speaking on geological terms that would be the best place on earth to put it.

  348. 348.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Quinerly: don’t be surprised about Guthrie being good. She’s a grad of Georgetown Law school and had the top score in Arizona  for the State Bar exam the year she took it – she grew up in Tucson and did her undergrad at the U of AZ.

  349. 349.

    Another Scott

    @Sayne: Um, one can buy a huge amount of solar panels and wind turbines (and quite a bit of power storage) for the life-cycle cost of one nuclear power plant.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  350. 350.

    SFAW

    This headline from CNN.com:

    “Van Jones gives this Biden answer a D- minus.”

    Shocked, shocked, I tells ya.

  351. 351.

    Soprano2

    Boy, Guthrie sure didn’t let him get away with anything! No wonder all the right wingers are pissed about it. He didn’t answer any questions at all as far as I can tell.

  352. 352.

    J R in WV

    @dmsilev:

    October 15, 2020 at 8:45 pm

    @mad citizen:

    He says he is extremely under levered, and took some loans as favors when institutions wanted to loan him money.

    Sounds plausible.

    Well, wife and I do get phone calls from people who want to sell us money. Even Chase Bank. But we have a great credit score, have never declared bankruptcy!

    Trump, I wouldn’t loan him the old junk truck that broke down up on the ridge!

  353. 353.

    J R in WV

    @dmsilev:

    October 15, 2020 at 9:19 pm

    I can always tell when the next thread is by Adam, because the arrow widget over on the right side of the page is almost a whole screen in height…

    Oh, yeah, that’s why that’s so weird, Adam’s title runs on FOREVER!! Which is OK, just interesting.

  354. 354.

    J R in WV

    @jl:

    From personal experience, I know they listen through endless droning ag marketing reports during early breakfast. I remember one for stone fruits that started at 5AM. Then there was one on hay and dairy feed crops. So it occurred to me that farmers are more willing to put up with these shows than others.

    To a farmer, those droning AG reports tell them whether they can expect to make a profit on their crops this year, or not.

    They are like listening to someone tell you about your pay check for the next six months, if your paycheck was variable, depending upon the weather and many other things completely out of your control.

  355. 355.

    J R in WV

    @The Moar You Know:

    No. it’s called “vitrification”. I’ll let you look up the details. Quite effective. Lasts millions of years. But reactor waste is a small percentage of our overall nuclear waste stream, which, again, has a danger span of hundreds of years, not thousands.

    And now random anonymous guy on the Intertubes knows more better than the American Chemical Society? Sure thing, pal standing at the end of the bar!

    I’m personally sorry to hear that the Japanese will be allowing contaminated water from their worse than dead power plant into the Pacific ocean. Better “vitrified” and dumped into a subduction zone, but Japan won’t be doing that, just dumping it into the ocean. Yum. Sushi with spice! Glow in the dark spice!

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