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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Pennsylvania and Wisconsin: Do You Want Your Vote To Be Counted? Drop Off Your Ballot, Don’t Mail It

Pennsylvania and Wisconsin: Do You Want Your Vote To Be Counted? Drop Off Your Ballot, Don’t Mail It

by WaterGirl|  October 28, 202012:09 pm| 121 Comments

This post is in: Early Voting 2020, Open Threads, Vote Like Your Country Depends On It, This Fight Is For Everything

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Word from organizers in Wisconsin:

Wisconsin Voting:  Want your vote to be counted?  Return your absentee ballot, but don’t use the mail.  Or vote in person.  

It’s too late to mail your ballot and be sure it will be counted.

Make sure your vote will be counted.  Drop. It. Off.

Wisconsin drop box locations


Word on the street from Pennsylvania:

Pennsylvania Voting:  Want your vote to be counted?  Use a drop box, or turn you ballot in at your county board of election office.  

With the recent ruling, it’s too late to mail your ballot and be sure it will be counted.

Make sure your vote will be counted.  Drop. It. Off.

The upshot of this Supreme Court order: Pennsylvania voters, if you haven’t voted yet, do not vote by mail — vote some other way.

CNN: Some Pennsylvania counties will count mail-in ballots last

Official PA website: Location for PA drop boxes, drop off sites, as well as satellite county election offices, and early voting locations

You can also vote in person on election day, but if you requested a mail-in ballot, you must bring your ENTIRE mail-in ballot with you, both envelopes.  Everything.  If you don’t bring everything with to vote in person in PA on Nov 3, you wlll be given a provisional ballot.

 

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Reader Interactions

121Comments

  1. 1.

    Nicole

    October 28, 2020 at 12:15 pm

    Thanks WaterGirl!

    CNN had an article up today about how the different counties in PA are choosing to deal with drop-off ballots.  The Democratic counties are starting to count them at 7AM on Election Day; the Republican-controlled ones (the one I grew up in got special mention) are waiting until after the polls close, probably to give the early impression that the state is going to Trump and try to pull shenanigans, see Kavanaugh’s bullshit statement.

    That said, important to get the ballots in.

  2. 2.

    WaterGirl

    October 28, 2020 at 12:21 pm

    @Nicole: If you have a link, I would love to add it to the top of the post.  That goes for Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

  3. 3.

    Mousebumples

    October 28, 2020 at 12:23 pm

    @WaterGirl: https://vote.wisdems.org/dropbox-locations/

    ?

    Dropped mine off in September and I’m good to go, but that link may be helpful for wisconsin juicers unsure where they can drop off.

  4. 4.

    Leto

    October 28, 2020 at 12:27 pm

    Location for PA drop boxes, drop off sites, as well as satellite county election offices, and early voting locations: https://www.votespa.com/Voting-in-PA/pages/drop-box.aspx

  5. 5.

    pat

    October 28, 2020 at 12:34 pm

    This is insane.  In WI as far as I know they don’t even begin to count absentee ballots until election day.  Next up, stop counting at midnight because the election day is over…..

    I wouldn’t put it past them.  The repubs, that is, who know that if every voter can vote, they will lose…  Trump even acknowledged it.

    I went to the Town Hall with my ballot the day after it arrived, filled it out, signed it, and the clerk signed as witness and kept it.

  6. 6.

    WaterGirl

    October 28, 2020 at 12:34 pm

    @Mousebumples:  @Leto:

    Thanks you guys, just what I needed.  Links added up top.

  7. 7.

    Martin

    October 28, 2020 at 12:35 pm

    Nobody in any state should be mailing in by now. Vote in person. 4 years of Trump is more likely to give you Covid than visiting the polling place. Make sure that vote counts.

  8. 8.

    Martin

    October 28, 2020 at 12:38 pm

    Watergirl, I hope you’re getting plenty of rest and hydrating well, because next Tues we’re going to fucking break this site like you’ve never seen before.

  9. 9.

    Snarki, child of Loki

    October 28, 2020 at 12:40 pm

    MAGAts are invited to drop off their ballots in the nearest dumpster fire.

    Then hop in after it, to keep it ‘secure’.

  10. 10.

    Gravenstone

    October 28, 2020 at 12:41 pm

    Single data point, but it only took 3 days for my mailed WI ballot to be received. Of course this was 1) a month ago and 2) a blood red county, so any USPS shenanigans were likely focused elsewhere. I would be completely unsurprised if they are ramping up the obstruction now that we’re in the thick of it.

  11. 11.

    dmsilev

    October 28, 2020 at 12:42 pm

    @Martin: California is OK to mail in, since ballots just need to be postmarked by Tuesday and will still be counted even if they’re not received until after Election Day. Per this table compiled by the NYT, November 20th is the cutoff for receipt.

  12. 12.

    Gravenstone

    October 28, 2020 at 12:43 pm

    @pat:

    In WI as far as I know they don’t even begin to count absentee ballots until election day. 

    Correct. State law, ass-backwards though it may be. Not likely to change any time soon, unless we can somehow pry the state leg from the cold, dead fingers of the Republicans.

  13. 13.

    Benw

    October 28, 2020 at 12:44 pm

    @Nicole: I don’t understand this strategy. If I were Republicans I’d be frantically counting NOW so they can announce a Trump lead early and then try to lock up the counting in D districts. This seems backwards of that?

  14. 14.

    WaterGirl

    October 28, 2020 at 12:44 pm

    @Martin: It will be lit.

  15. 15.

    Martin

    October 28, 2020 at 12:45 pm

    @Nicole: Kavanaughs argument was that ballots counted after the networks call the election are a threat to the publics perception of the integrity of the election.

    Straight up, they’re going to pressure Fox to call the election for Trump (a tall order as that part of Fox is actually pretty good) and then use that action to argue in court that ballot counting should have ended on election day. They’ll rely on Republican AGs and appointed judges for this strategy.

    Mind you, I don’t think it’ll work, but it’s terrifying they are even setting the stage for this. The John Lewis Voting Rights Act doesn’t go far enough to address what’s happening right now.

  16. 16.

    WaterGirl

    October 28, 2020 at 12:46 pm

    @Martin: I agree with that, wholeheartedly, but I didn’t want to dilute the message to WI and PA by saying so.

    But it’s sure not hard to draw the dotted line and figure out that the advice applies everywhere.

    That’s why I voted in person, which i really did not want to do because of COVID.  As have a zillion other people, no doubt.

  17. 17.

    VOR

    October 28, 2020 at 12:48 pm

    Hell, I dropped off my absentee ballot at the county election center 3 weeks ago. I figured October 1st was too late to guarantee delivery by election day, given the intentional fuckery at the USPS. We’ll probably find bins full of undelivered ballots after this is all over. Well, assuming Biden wins, if Trump wins everything will be swept under the rug.

  18. 18.

    Benw

    October 28, 2020 at 12:48 pm

    Man I remember the good old days of 2016 like it was just a few years ago when courts were extremely hesitant to rule on voting cases the same YEAR as the election. It feels like we’re about to get 10 different rulings this week

  19. 19.

    frosty

    October 28, 2020 at 12:49 pm

    We drove up to the County Courthouse yesterday so my son could drop off his ballot. Ms F and I will vote in person on Tuesday – I want my vote counted immediately for a PA landslide on election night.

  20. 20.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    October 28, 2020 at 12:49 pm

    Thanks, WaterGirl!

    I dropped off my ballot at City Hall in San Francisco yesterday and had an odd little experience. The dropoff site was well-staffed and well-organized, as usual, and very heavily guarded, as not-so-usual. After I dropped my ballot in the slot, a man who had been standing a few feet away approached me – a youngish white guy with a hesitant manner and an accent. He said, “hello, I’m from Brazil, is it alright if I ask you a question? Who did you vote for?” Now I’m in the heart of SF and surrounded by police and poll workers, so I’m not worried for my safety or about being harrassed for my answer, but I said “for which office?” just to stall a little. He seemed surprised there was any question and said “president – Trump or Biden?”  I was about to tell him when I saw that he was maneuvering to take my photo with his phone, which he held low and angled up. I was wearing a mask, of course, but immediately said I was not comfortable with him taking my picture and walked away.

    No harm, no foul, but it was so odd.

  21. 21.

    West of the Rockies

    October 28, 2020 at 12:49 pm

    I would think that in their deepest gut, Republicans should feel wretched.

    Yes, there are occasional terrible Democrats, there is bad history within the party, and they have gerrymandered…

    But now, truly, the only way Republicans retain any federal power is by gerrymandering, blocking voters, ratfarking, and lying.  They know that their “ideas and values” are trash, that they have lost the battle of hearts and minds.

    Seriously, if we had a candidate as dreadful as Clump, we’d have abandoned him back in March of ’16.

  22. 22.

    Nicole

    October 28, 2020 at 12:51 pm

    @WaterGirl: 
    Here you go:
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/28/politics/early-voting-ballot-count-pennsylvania-2020/index.html

  23. 23.

    Martin

    October 28, 2020 at 12:52 pm

    @dmsilev: Yes, that’s what will happen in state. That’s not what the courts (including USSC) is signaling. USSC is now arguing that state legislatures and state SOSs are not equipped to enforce state constitutions on voting.

    CA isn’t the hill that the GOP is going to try and die on, because holy shit are they unprepared to win in CA courts, but if the House were close, they would try and invalidate counts in certain districts.

    Put another way, they have the USSC makeup they want, and it may not last long. This is go big or go home time for the GOP. If they don’t throw everything into this effort, they likely lose the ability to ever do it again. Kavanaugh is clearly on board. He’s making good on the threat he issued during the confirmation.

  24. 24.

    NeenerNeener

    October 28, 2020 at 12:56 pm

    There are less than 6,000 people in my town and the lines for early voting have been long, long, long since Saturday morning when it started. At this rate I’ll be the only one showing up at the regular polling place on Election Day.

  25. 25.

    Martin

    October 28, 2020 at 12:57 pm

    @West of the Rockies:

    I would think that in their deepest gut, Republicans should feel wretched.

    They don’t. The core belief of conservatism is that much of the population is either undeserving or unable to govern. As far as they’re concerned this is being done for our own benefit.

  26. 26.

    Nicole

    October 28, 2020 at 12:57 pm

    @Benw: I think it’s because, thanks to President Asterisk’s lack of an internal monologue, the GOP voters are now askeered away from mail-in or early voting and are determined to vote only on Election Day.  The perception is that the mail-in voting will be overwhelmingly Democratic.

    I’m grateful for that lack of an internal monologue, though.  It’s been very helpful for us that Dime Store Palpatine broadcasts all of their evil plans ahead of time.  Mitigated a fair amount of damage over the past 4 years.  Horrifying to think it could have been worse, but it could have been.

  27. 27.

    WaterGirl

    October 28, 2020 at 12:59 pm

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: That is creepy.

  28. 28.

    mali muso

    October 28, 2020 at 1:00 pm

    @WaterGirl: I waver between planning to hang out here that night or trying to block the whole thing out completely and going to bed early to see what the morning brings.  The 2016 PTSD is strong.

  29. 29.

    WaterGirl

    October 28, 2020 at 1:01 pm

    @Nicole: Thank you!  Added up top.

  30. 30.

    cthulhu

    October 28, 2020 at 1:03 pm

    Not that Oregon is a battleground (though tRump/Parscale originally designated us at one, hahaha), but yeah, they announced that yesterday was the last day you should mail your ballot. They acknowledged that, sure, it is likely a ballot mailed in the middle if this week should make it, but to be safe, people should now use a dropbox (there are plenty) or go to an elections office.

    BTW, in the this all vote by mail state, ballot return rates of Dems is significantly running ahead of the GOP so it seems, at least here, the enthusiasm is on our side and there’s no sign of the “silent majority” despite all the coverage of the PDX protests and my regular encounters with loud and proud tRumpers.

  31. 31.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    October 28, 2020 at 1:04 pm

    @Martin:

    I know in PA, the governor and the SOS are Dems and can tell GOP judges (including the SCOTUS) to go pound sound if ordered to stop counting. I hope Wolf and the SOS don’t bow to pressure “for the sake of the country”. Also, I’m sure PA Republicans wouldn’t just sit back and take this on the chin. They no longer have a supermajority anymore since 2018, so I guess there’s not much they could do at that point

    In WI, obviously the GOP controls the state leg, with the governorship and SOS in Dem hands. I guess WI Dems could also tell courts to go pound sand, and the Republicans there don’t have a supermajority either

  32. 32.

    chopper

    October 28, 2020 at 1:04 pm

    @Martin:

    it seems a tall order for trump to argue at the court that counting has to stop at midnight because he has a heretofore never-recognized constitutional right to know with 100% certainty the outcome of an election as of midnight on voting day, especially since that 1) basically invalidates every election this country has ever had, and 2) means things like recounts are wholesale unconstitutional.

    i wouldn’t put that sort of garbage past the goopers on the court, but man that would be fucking crazy.

  33. 33.

    prostratedragon

    October 28, 2020 at 1:04 pm

    @Nicole:
    ” The perception is that the mail-in voting will be overwhelmingly Democratic.”

    Some bright boys out in Nevada are trying to act on this perception. link

  34. 34.

    oatler.

    October 28, 2020 at 1:07 pm

    https://www.mediamatters.org/infowars/militia-leader-stewart-rhodes-says-his-group-will-be-polling-locations-and-ready-kill

  35. 35.

    Haroldo

    October 28, 2020 at 1:09 pm

    @Martin:

    Mind you, I don’t think it’ll work, but it’s terrifying they are even setting the stage for this.

    It is terrifying, but not surprising.

    I wish I was as sanguine as you, however.

  36. 36.

    germy

    October 28, 2020 at 1:11 pm

    @Martin:  Kavanaugh’s argument was that ballots counted after the networks call the election are a threat to the publics perception of the integrity of the election.

    Ah!  An originalist!

  37. 37.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    October 28, 2020 at 1:13 pm

    @Martin:

    Kavanaugh is being a bit, uh, disingenuous.

    Justice Kavanaugh KNOWS how this works. He was on a team in Florida that argued for the inclusion of ballots received 10+ days after election day, and pressed counties to change their totals over THANKSGIVING weekend. He knows.
    https://t.co/yn8kRohQM8

    — Ronald Klain (@RonaldKlain) October 27, 2020

  38. 38.

    Bill Arnold

    October 28, 2020 at 1:19 pm

    Yep. Here’s the NYTimes email tracker.
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/14/upshot/is-the-mail-getting-slower-tracker.html
    Basically, percentages for late first class mail have been increasing again.
    The Postmaster General needs to be prosecuted, IMO.

  39. 39.

    Sab

    October 28, 2020 at 1:20 pm

    @Martin: Ironic coming from him, since he has no concern about the public’s perception of the integrity of the courts, which is supposed to be an actual thing with judicial ethics.

  40. 40.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    October 28, 2020 at 1:20 pm

    DH voted yesterday.  NC allows people overseas to fill out, sign and then scan their ballots and e-mail them.  That is exactly what he did.

  41. 41.

    artem1s

    October 28, 2020 at 1:20 pm

    @Benw:

    @Nicole:

    I don’t understand this strategy. If I were Republicans I’d be frantically counting NOW so they can announce a Trump lead early and then try to lock up the counting in D districts. This seems backwards of that?

    strategy not their strong suite?  Remember, voter suppression is all they know how to do.  It’s the only tool in their toolbox.  They don’t know how to give a leg up to people they want voting.  They only know how to keep people from getting their vote counted.  It’s the last bullet in their gun.  Once the GOP has lost all it’s suppression advantage, they won’t win another election until they get better leaders and policies who want to convince people to vote for them.

  42. 42.

    chopper

    October 28, 2020 at 1:20 pm

    @germy:

    fox can just call the election for trump at 8am on election day and everyone can just stay home.

  43. 43.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    October 28, 2020 at 1:23 pm

    @oatler.:

    These guys are unhinged.

    West Coast Dems are “bought and paid for” by China

    Comparing Dems to the “loyalists” during the American Revolution. “What do you do with these people?”.

  44. 44.

    Martin

    October 28, 2020 at 1:25 pm

    @chopper: @Goku (Amerikan Baka): Yes, that would be crazy. But there is a reason they rushed Barret onto this court, and a reason she went along with it. If they lose this election and Dems add 4 seats to the court, everything the GOP did the last 10 years, effectively burning the party to the ground to achieve it, will be for naught.

    In order to preserve that effort, they have to go for it. And yes, the PA gov and SOS can tell USSC to pound sand, but that’s why the GOP is focusing on the electors. The gov and SOS don’t choose the electors – that’s a right reserved for the state legislature. Could the PA legislature choose electors for Trump even if Biden wins? Yeah, I think they could, and I think USSC would back that up because they already said they would in the faithless electors case. All the PA leg would need is some political cover from USSC, which Kavanaugh has already started to provide.

  45. 45.

    Martin

    October 28, 2020 at 1:28 pm

    @Steeplejack (phone): Of course, however Kavanaugh’s opinion is now USSC precedent. It’s the judicial branch’s official statement on how laws should be applied. It’s complete bullshit, but also effectively law.

  46. 46.

    Jeffro

    October 28, 2020 at 1:29 pm

    1) Roberts and Gorsuch won’t go along with all these wacky not-counting-votes things.  Alito, Thomas, K-man, and Covid Amy will, but they won’t.

    2) the NYT is running some sort of feature on “can you tell from looking at a picture of what’s in their fridge whether this person is a trumpov or Biden voter” and all I can say is, bring on the asteroid.

  47. 47.

    Faithful Lurker

    October 28, 2020 at 1:29 pm

    @Martin: Speaking of Kavanaugh, did anyone ever figure out who paid his credit card bills? That’s the entity that owns him and his SCOTUS votes. Inquiring minds would like to know the answer to that vexing riddle.

  48. 48.

    Baud

    October 28, 2020 at 1:29 pm

    @Martin:

    The new Congress will decide which slate of electors to accept.

  49. 49.

    Baud

    October 28, 2020 at 1:31 pm

    @Jeffro:

    Trick question. It’s the NYT.  The Biden voter is in fact a Trump voter posing as a Biden voter.

  50. 50.

    Martin

    October 28, 2020 at 1:32 pm

    @Haroldo: My anxiety level is around an 11. I can rationalize my way through this, but emotionally I’m a fucking wreck.

    My faith is with the public, that the GOP can only get away with this if the public lets them, and I don’t think we will. I’m not certain it will be peaceful, but I’m pretty certain we’ll come out on top.

    I should add, the amount of early vote and the Dem turnout gives me faith that come election night we’ll look okay. Cook political report just moved Texas from lean GOP to tossup. And early vote in TX has been off the fucking rails.

  51. 51.

    Sab

    October 28, 2020 at 1:33 pm

    @Martin: They seem to be oblivious to the concept of down ballot elections. Kay pointed out a couple of days ago that there a lot of locally powerful political people very invested in local elections.

  52. 52.

    LuciaMia

    October 28, 2020 at 1:33 pm

    @Snarki, child of Loki:

    MAGAts are invited to drop off their ballots in the nearest dumpster fire.

    And to try to stay warm, if youre hanging around after a Trump rally.

  53. 53.

    patrick II

    October 28, 2020 at 1:33 pm

    @pat:

    In Virginia, we don’t count ballots until election day either.  But we “process” the ballots before then — open the envelopes, do whatever manual checks they have to do for validity, and then put them in a stack to be put into the machines at 7:00pm on election day.  From then on it goes quickly and I don’t have a problem with it.  The processing process varies from state to state and ballots in some states may be more ready to count on election day than others.  Some states do no pre-processing at all.  Sorry, I don’t know where Wisconsin stands on that.

     

    @pat:

  54. 54.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 28, 2020 at 1:35 pm

    @Martin: They’re going to try to throw out ALL the votes, ALL of them, on the basis that the early vote is entirely corrupt, and simply substitute in a Trump electoral slate with backing from Republican state legislatures where they can find them. They’re going to try to do it even if Biden is 17 points ahead in the state.

    They think the public will just shrug and let them do it–gee, I can’t find a specific rule in the book that says a mule can’t play football! Guess it stands! Of course it’s actually blatantly illegal.

    Fortunately I think Biden’s legal team is actually ready for this.

  55. 55.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    October 28, 2020 at 1:36 pm

    @Martin:

    Laws are only “laws” if they can be enforced and followed

    In addition, there are explicit laws in place for choosing electors. I assume in PA it’s tied to the popular vote. It would be blatantly illegal.

    Do Kavanaugh and the other conservatives on the Court really not think that by doing this they’re effectively signing their own death warrants and painting targets on their backs? Do they not see how this could cause the country to erupt in mass violence, directed at them? Yes, they have the Court police protecting them, but all it would take are a few lucky shots

    And even if that didn’t come to pass, Congress could just refuse to certify the blatantly corrupted results of the election.

    Not to mention they would fucking over a bunch of other GOP politicians at the state and local level. Hell, at the federal level! Not all of those ballots will be from Dems. I’m not sure what the fuck they’re thinking. The rush to confirm Barrett indicates they were all on board with this strategy, but Lord knows why. This will call into question the integrity of the elections GOPers too

  56. 56.

    danielx

    October 28, 2020 at 1:38 pm

    @Martin:

    But if it appears Trump is getting hammered into the ground on election night, which I devoutly hope is the case, “the integrity of the electoral process” will demand that every last mail in vote be counted. Because reasons.

    Kavanaugh may have insisted on ensuring votes be counted in Florida, but that was centuries ago. Republican jurisprudence has evolved since then, and it will evolve as necessary in the future. Depending on conditions and circumstances of course, such as the likelihood of Republican candidates getting crushed like grapes at the hands of irate voters.

  57. 57.

    Nelle

    October 28, 2020 at 1:39 pm

    I have the greatest get-out-the-vote coordinator around. She called yesterday and asked if I could hand out pamphlets to another 28 houses. I said sure So she brought them over this morning. Along with chocolate chip cookies. You can easily buy me with sugar.

  58. 58.

    PsiFighter37

    October 28, 2020 at 1:39 pm

    Biden, Ossoff, Warnock all leading in Georgia in last Monmouth poll. We’re gonna fucking win the state and take both Senate seats.

  59. 59.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 28, 2020 at 1:39 pm

    @Sab: Well, the “alternate Trump electors” trick would amount to throwing out JUST the presidential votes and accepting all the other votes, even though the argument is that the ballots are all illegitimate. Would require a bit of doublethink but Republicans may be up to that.

  60. 60.

    chopper

    October 28, 2020 at 1:40 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    if they try to pull that sort of thing off, throwing out a clear biden win and handing their electors over to trump, there’s going to be blood in the streets. lots of it.

  61. 61.

    Baud

    October 28, 2020 at 1:40 pm

    @PsiFighter37:

    We’ll win outright without a runoff?

  62. 62.

    West of the Rockies

    October 28, 2020 at 1:40 pm

    @Martin:

    You know, that would at least be an ethos but I suspect it’s actually pure thirst for power.  It’s akin to rooting for a dirty player (Clemens or Bonds or Romanowski or Andre “Dirty” Waters).  I guess if he’s on your team, hooray.  Winning is more important than honor.

  63. 63.

    Sab

    October 28, 2020 at 1:40 pm

    @Martin: The more I think of this the mpre I respect our foumdimg fathers. They were all active in local politics. They umderstood ratphucking.

    Bush v Gore was possible because the election was so close that screwimg around with one coumty in Florida could do it.

    I can’t imagine that even the Supreme Court can get away with disregarding election laws applying to hundreds of counties in multiple states.

  64. 64.

    chopper

    October 28, 2020 at 1:40 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    throwing out all the votes is all the same to trump; he doesn’t give a shit about any election but his.

  65. 65.

    Steeplejack

    October 28, 2020 at 1:43 pm

    Meaty snippets at the link, in case you don’t want to continue to the NYT.

    Solid and astonishing roundup in the @nytimes morning briefing of the many GOP efforts underway explicitly to make it harder for people to vote in this election. Not the GOP campaigning for its issues and candidates, but trying to stop people from voting altogether.
    pic.twitter.com/SqPqIQb4tB

    — Aaron Hanlon (@AaronRHanlon) October 28, 2020

  66. 66.

    hueyplong

    October 28, 2020 at 1:44 pm

    @PsiFighter37: I’m incapable of articulating the joy that would bring.

  67. 67.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    October 28, 2020 at 1:44 pm

    @chopper:

    But Trump isn’t going to be around forever. The GOP should’ve just cut it’s losses months ago, not tried to rush Barrett onto the Supreme Court before the election. Absent that, court expansion and rebalancing would never have come up or been as big of an issue as it is now. The Republicans are their own worst enemies

  68. 68.

    Martin

    October 28, 2020 at 1:44 pm

    @Sab: Yeah. They don’t have a deep belief in democracy, after all. As far as they’re concerned, their control of federal courts, should they keep control of the executive, gives them 2 of 3 branches and they can just start rolling over state courts/legs.

    This is potentially the political endpoint of the civil war (the cultural war continues on). The courts are now primed to undo all of the civil war reforms. They won’t return to slavery of course, but the various reforms regarding a persons ownership of their labor will be diminished, their right to vote, democratic institutions etc. Fundamentally this is an attempt to return to a pre-civil war view of individual rights by diluting the 13-17th amendments and the 19th.

    Dems need to take this as seriously as the GOP by working as hard to reinforce those things as the GOP has worked to undermine them. They’re signaling that they get it, but I worry they’ll be sufficiently ruthless to push them through. But if Dems pull it off, this would probably stop that effort by the GOP. Their demographic coalition isn’t strong enough to keep them in power. They would need to reinvent.

  69. 69.

    chopper

    October 28, 2020 at 1:45 pm

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka):

    trump isn’t going to be around forever, but for now, he is the gop.

  70. 70.

    JMS

    October 28, 2020 at 1:48 pm

    In Pa, if you have your mail in ballot but haven’t returned it by Election Day, bring it with you to your polling place. If you requested a ballot but didn’t get it in the mail (or lost it or it was wrong) go to your polling place and request a provisional ballot.

  71. 71.

    Kent

    October 28, 2020 at 1:50 pm

    @Sab: Yes, you only get fuckery happening in places where it is close enough to make a difference.  In 2000 that was Florida.  In 2016 that was WI, MI, and PA.  We can suspect where it might be this year, but we don’t really know.  It might come down to say NC or AZ.

    If Biden locks up an electoral college win in not too close states then the fuckery will still continue.  But it will be for Senate and House races in paces we don’t necessarily expect.

    In places where the GOP holds a narrow lead the effort will be to shut things down.  In places where they are narrowly behind, the effort will be to “harvest” as many ballots as they can, but only from red precincts.

    The only thing to do is be vigilant.  And also have the backs of Dem politicians who are going to be fighting this.  Say it comes down to PA and the Gov is standing up to SCOTUS and refusing to stop counting ballots.  It isn’t just going to be that happening.  There are going to be Brooks Brothers mobs showing up to demand that counts stop in places like Philly.  They need to be opposed by even bigger Dem protests, and driven from the city.

  72. 72.

    Baud

    October 28, 2020 at 1:51 pm

     

    @Kent:

    https://protecttheresults.com

  73. 73.

    Kent

    October 28, 2020 at 1:52 pm

    @JMS:In Pa, if you have your mail in ballot but haven’t returned it by Election Day, bring it with you to your polling place. If you requested a ballot but didn’t get it in the mail (or lost it or it was wrong) go to your polling place and request a provisional ballot.

    Is PA the state where you also have to bring in the envelope, security inner envelope, and all that stuff as well as just the ballot to the polling place?  One state is like that.

  74. 74.

    germy

    October 28, 2020 at 1:54 pm

    Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman hit with 15 new felony charges one day after testifying in related case
    The pair of right-wing provocateurs each face up to 18 years and six months in prison if convicted

    If Jacob is looking for a good lawyer Rudy might be available. He would be in good hands with Rudy.

    — Scott Scog (@ScogScott) October 28, 2020

  75. 75.

    Ksmiami

    October 28, 2020 at 1:54 pm

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka): ill camp out at his fucking house and I’m not alone… if the Supreme Court goes this far, they will be over

  76. 76.

    Jeffery

    October 28, 2020 at 1:54 pm

    I got my ballot October 1st in Philadelphia. Filled it out and mailed it two hours later. Tracking it on the state site. It was recorded received October 19th. It traveled 7 miles.

  77. 77.

    MrSnrub

    October 28, 2020 at 1:55 pm

    In suburban Philadelphia, we are opting to vote in person.  We have our mail-in ballots, and will take them with us to do so.

  78. 78.

    smedley the uncertain

    October 28, 2020 at 1:55 pm

    @Baud: New Congress won’t be seated until Jan 3 2021.  That would be too late to rectify electoral shenanigans, No?

  79. 79.

    Calouste

    October 28, 2020 at 1:56 pm

    @Baud: Winning the Georgia special without a run off would be massive, because that means the Senate is 50-50 in the lame duck session, providing we win the Arizona special as expected.

  80. 80.

    Kent

    October 28, 2020 at 1:56 pm

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka):

    @chopper:

    But Trump isn’t going to be around forever. The GOP should’ve just cut it’s losses months ago, not tried to rush Barrett onto the Supreme Court before the election. Absent that, court expansion and rebalancing would never have come up or been as big of an issue as it is now. The Republicans are their own worst enemies.

    Honestly, If I was a true red rich business-oriented Republican.  Not a Trump cultist, but a traditional Republican.  Then I would actually be rooting for a Trump loss right now that Barrett is on the court.  Because that just accelerates by 4 years the starting point of rebuilding the party back into a serious business-oriented party that isn’t beholden to the mouth breathing MAGA and evangelical rubes.

    Putting Barrett on the court actually reduces the argument to “hold your nose and vote for Trump”

  81. 81.

    Ksmiami

    October 28, 2020 at 1:56 pm

    @chopper:  yes- Republican blood

  82. 82.

    Martin

    October 28, 2020 at 1:57 pm

    @Goku (Amerikan Baka): That’s what I thought too, but Trump, unlike previous GOP presidents isn’t attenuating Leonard Leo’s strategy (not only did he pick the justices, he’s behind a lot of the voter suppression efforts).

    Consider that the Federalist Society has not had particularly good luck with GOP presidents, but Trump is so fucking lazy that he just turns the whole effort over to them. So they’re going for it, trusting that what they lose in public support for the party can be made up for by control of a branch of govt. It’s risky, and I don’t think it’ll work, but in that narrow regard they’ve gotten as far as they ever have. This is their high point. 3 outcomes:

    1. they convert this moment into a hold on power and use it to move the US into a full-on minority rule state (which we used to be, mind you)
    2. they lose this moment, and Dems are bold enough to put safeguards around these institutions, undoing the last 4 decades or so of GOP judicial activism.
    3. they lose this moment, Dems act like Dems have always acted and does too little, the GOP hibernates for 2 years, makes a run for the Senate in 2022 and it start back up all over again.
  83. 83.

    Kent

    October 28, 2020 at 1:58 pm

    @Jeffery:I got my ballot October 1st in Philadelphia. Filled it out and mailed it two hours later. Tracking it on the state site. It was recorded received October 19th. It traveled 7 miles.

    But you don’t know how many of those 19 days it was in the hands of the USPS and how many of those days it was sitting in a box in the elections office waiting to be “processed”

  84. 84.

    PsiFighter37

    October 28, 2020 at 1:59 pm

    @Baud: Warnock will go to a runoff, but he is well ahead of both Loeffler and Collins. For Ossoff – he’s at 49% here. He’s really the one that there needs to be a big push to get over 50% on Election Day.

  85. 85.

    Calouste

    October 28, 2020 at 2:01 pm

    @Kent:  The shitgibbon has been pretty explicit that if you are rich and you want something, you need to give him millions. See the TikTok/Oracle saga. And if you don’t, you’ve earned his wrath. If you’re really rich and not already 100% in the cult, your money is a lot more secure under Biden.

  86. 86.

    Wag

    October 28, 2020 at 2:04 pm

    @danielx:

    Republican jurisprudence has evolved since then

    Cleek’s Law raises it’s head again!

  87. 87.

    Martin

    October 28, 2020 at 2:05 pm

    @smedley the uncertain: Depends. Ultimately Congress ratifies the election. As such, they can tell USSC to fuck off and seat who they want – not just for President but for Congress as well. This has been done fairly recently, too.

    But Dems won’t do this without cause, and it’s a tricky maneuver to pull off because the 12th amendment doesn’t make it easy. I’m not sure what happens if entire state delegations aren’t seated and they need to go to a contingent vote for president, which seems the most likely outcome if we’re talking about shenanigans.

  88. 88.

    Baud

    October 28, 2020 at 2:05 pm

    @smedley the uncertain:

    If there are competing slates of Trump and Biden electors, the new Congress gets to decide which ones to count and which to reject.  So if there are shenanigans before that point, the new Congress can take that into account in deciding.

  89. 89.

    germy

    October 28, 2020 at 2:06 pm

    NEW: Arizona Democrat U.S. Senate candidate Mark Kelly has filed a defamation lawsuit against far-right National File reporter Patrick Howley in Pima County over a baseless story that alleges Kelly wore a Hitler costume to a college party.

    — Zachary Petrizzo (@ZTPetrizzo) October 28, 2020

  90. 90.

    Steeplejack

    October 28, 2020 at 2:07 pm

    Spooky Halloween ahead with Brent and Blaire!

    Cancel Halloween??? WE DON’T THANK SO.

    With @blaireerskine.
    pic.twitter.com/DTEIrM1hyG

    — Brent Terhune (@BrentTerhune) October 28, 2020

  91. 91.

    Haroldo

    October 28, 2020 at 2:07 pm

    @Martin:

    Me, too.  I’m a rationalizing wreck.

    All the anti-coup stuff I’m reading these days hinges on the mass response of the populace.  Let’s hope this isn’t put to the test.

    We’ve prepared well….now, good luck to all of us.

  92. 92.

    Hoodie

    October 28, 2020 at 2:08 pm

    @Martin: Actually, it’s not precedent because Kavanaugh’s was a concurrence.  However, I think it was a signal to prospective litigants that some portion of the court would be open to such arguments, and I imagine that at least Thomas, Alito and Barrett would sign on to that logic.  However, his opinion was so sloppy, I’m not sure that someone like Gorsuch would go for it.

  93. 93.

    Kay

    October 28, 2020 at 2:08 pm

    Jennifer Epstein
    @jeneps
    1h
    Confirmed: Joe Biden and Barack Obama will reunite to rally together in Michigan on Saturday, per person familiar.

    Can I go to this or are you guys going to get mad at me for leaving my house? :)

  94. 94.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 28, 2020 at 2:11 pm

    @PsiFighter37: I’ll take whatever we can get in Georgia, but to see the Pastor of Ebeneezer Baptist Church in the Senate seat held by Herman Talmadge and Kelly Loeffler, to say nothing of Zell Miller, would be a historic breakthrough in American politics

    (and of course I had to look that up, but I figured it was pretty safe bet that seat had been held by a Dixiecrat segregationist)

  95. 95.

    WaterGirl

    October 28, 2020 at 2:11 pm

    @Bill Arnold: I knew Kavanaugh was a rapist but I had no idea he was a whore, also.

    edit: with apologies to all upstanding prostitutes.

  96. 96.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 28, 2020 at 2:13 pm

    @Kay: is it a drive-in rally? and do we have time to go fund you a novelty horn that plays City of Blinding Light?

  97. 97.

    Baud

    October 28, 2020 at 2:13 pm

    Two senators take aim at Justice Kavanaugh over his recent opinion containing “incorrect information” on mail-in ballots: pic.twitter.com/ydQrDVhdX3
    — Lawrence Hurley (@lawrencehurley) October 28, 2020

    Statement by Sanders and Klobuchar (interesting combo).

  98. 98.

    PAM Dirac

    October 28, 2020 at 2:14 pm

    @Martin:

     

    But there is a reason they rushed Barret onto this court, and a reason she went along with it. If they lose this election and Dems add 4 seats to the court, everything the GOP did the last 10 years, effectively burning the party to the ground to achieve it, will be for naught.

    I can see that, but they don’t need Drumpf to prevent that, they just need the Senate. I could easily see the GOP powers that be going all in on whatever crimes they need to do to hold the Senate, but why go to that risk to save Drumpf? No one in the GOP wants to govern, least of all Drumpf, and with COVID and the crashing economy, governing in the next year or two is going to be very, very difficult. Drumpf is a pain in the rear anyway, so why wouldn’t they let Biden take on that headache and run in 2 years on what a lousy job he did, especially if they can hold the Senate and stop any real fixes that might be made.

  99. 99.

    trollhattan

    October 28, 2020 at 2:15 pm

    @germy:

    Do they not know they are fucking with a NASA astronaut? This is the sort of nonsense up with which he will not put.

  100. 100.

    Kay

    October 28, 2020 at 2:17 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    It will be a drive-in rally and I love driving.

  101. 101.

    trollhattan

    October 28, 2020 at 2:17 pm

    @Baud:

    That is interesting–New York “nice” meets Minnesota “nice.” I’d likewise find it interesting if li’l Brett were impeached for his troubles. IIUC it’s technically feasible but there’s no precedent.

  102. 102.

    UncleEbeneezer

    October 28, 2020 at 2:17 pm

    Thanks for this.  Sharing with my PA friends/family.

  103. 103.

    Kay

    October 28, 2020 at 2:19 pm

    @Baud:

    I’m so glad they’re doing it. The commercial radio station even had it here, except it was “election officials alarmed by…”

    Guffaw.

  104. 104.

    Humanities Prof

    October 28, 2020 at 2:19 pm

    @Martin: I don’t think this is technically true.

    Kavanaugh’s opinion was a concurrence, not the majority opinion.  So officially, it doesn’t have any legal standing.

    Officially.

  105. 105.

    Baud

    October 28, 2020 at 2:21 pm

    @Kay: He has major egg on his face.  Keep pressing.

  106. 106.

    randy khan

    October 28, 2020 at 2:21 pm

    @Martin: 

    Kavanaugh’s opinion is a concurrence, meaning he agrees with the result, not the opinion of the court. (The court did not issue an opinion, and because it was a stay request, no opinion was required.) So it’s not precedent.

  107. 107.

    randy khan

    October 28, 2020 at 2:22 pm

    @PsiFighter37:

    That would be fun.  Particularly if Warnock wins outright.

  108. 108.

    mad citizen

    October 28, 2020 at 2:23 pm

    It’s a damn shame that Boof Kavanaugh, given his job, is part of the problem.  Glad to see the two Senators correcting him.  Dang Baud, you are fast on the twitter news!

    Garry Kasparov  @Kasparov63  Dec 13, 2016

    The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.

  109. 109.

    Kay

    October 28, 2020 at 2:23 pm

    My youngest listens to you tube and last night there was an ad from some good government group about how we “count all the votes no matter how long it takes”

    I feel like we’re ready for this attempted theft.

  110. 110.

    Hoodie

    October 28, 2020 at 2:26 pm

    @PAM Dirac: That is a good point.  This stuff is pure desperation. The push to confirm Barrett and not do anything by way of a relief bill indicates that McConnell already knows that Trump is a loser.  Instead, he’s trying to save his majority because base evangelical support for some of his borderline senate candidates might collapse if they didn’t push the Barrett nom through.  He didn’t want a stimulus bill because a chunk of his caucus would balk and cause an open schism in the party that would likely ensure defeat as well.  He was also preserving leverage with the Biden admin if he somehow manages to keep the majority.  Maybe he’s willing to go all in because (1) 2022 doesn’t necessarily present a desirable map for retaking the Senate and (2) Mitch has some kind of serious illness and might not make it to 2022.

  111. 111.

    WaterGirl

    October 28, 2020 at 2:28 pm

    @PsiFighter37: Is Warnock at 50% + 1 yet?

  112. 112.

    WaterGirl

    October 28, 2020 at 2:30 pm

    Bob Bauer – head of Biden’s voter protection effort. Maybe we all need to watch this again. :-)

    So you’re worried Trump is going to try to steal the election? Join the club. But Bob Bauer, the Democratic super-lawyer and head of Biden’s massive voter protection effort, had a soothing message when I sat with him for @SHO_TheCircus:

    “He will fail.” pic.twitter.com/b0pU0ot4yu

    — John Heilemann (@jheil) October 20, 2020

  113. 113.

    catclub

    October 28, 2020 at 2:32 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: NC allows people overseas to fill out, sign and then scan their ballots and e-mail them. That is exactly what he did.

     

    so long anonymous vote, though.

    with real mailin ballot there is an outer envelope that identifies YOU, then an inner ballot envelope that is anonymous.

     

    I  guess the zero-config math guys could figure out  a way to anonymize it,  but did they?

  114. 114.

    WaterGirl

    October 28, 2020 at 2:39 pm

    @Kent: @JMS:   I believe that is true for PA.  I just asked Leto to check the note I added up top to make sure it is complete and accurate.

  115. 115.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    October 28, 2020 at 2:40 pm

    @WaterGirl: Thank you. That will help keep the panic at bay for at least 24 hours. If I repeat once a day I might make it through to Nov. 4.

    Feel free to keep posting that periodically.

  116. 116.

    Omnes Omnibus

    October 28, 2020 at 2:42 pm

    @Martin: Kavanaugh’s theory is from a concurring opinion.  It is not controlling.  Further, IIRC and I do not have the opinion in front of me, this was set out in a footnote.  Footnotes are where you stick things you think are interesting, not where you announce a new legal theory on how elections are run.  If I am off base on the footnote thing, it is still a concurring opinion.   You need to step back a bit.

  117. 117.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    October 28, 2020 at 2:53 pm

    @Kay:

    Can I go to this or are you guys going to get mad at me for leaving my house? :)

    You can leave your house, you just can’t come to mine.

    I wish I could go, though.

  118. 118.

    Kent

    October 28, 2020 at 3:03 pm

    @Martin:@chopper: @Goku (Amerikan Baka): Yes, that would be crazy. But there is a reason they rushed Barret onto this court, and a reason she went along with it. If they lose this election and Dems add 4 seats to the court, everything the GOP did the last 10 years, effectively burning the party to the ground to achieve it, will be for naught.

    I honestly don’t think the election was the main reason why they rushed Barrett onto the court.  They had a 5-3 majority without Barrett.

    I think they rushed it because they wanted the vote to happen BEFORE the election when there was still a bit more of a veneer of legitimacy.  If a lame-duck president and a lame duck Senate are pushing it through the stench is just a lot greater and some more moderate senators like Murkowski might have more trouble with it.  Also, they stand to lose 2 Senators during the lame duck with both AZ and GA in special elections.

    They probably also wanted it done on Monday so that vulnerable Senators could go back home for one final week of campaigning, rather than get tied up in DC for another week of hearings.

    Trump, of course, wanted the vote before the election.  But I’m not sure the calculus was exactly the same for the Senate leadership.  It was now or never.  The longer they waited the harder it gets.

  119. 119.

    WaterGirl

    October 28, 2020 at 3:20 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m in for that!

  120. 120.

    WaterGirl

    October 28, 2020 at 3:25 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: I may have to watch it again today, myself!

  121. 121.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 28, 2020 at 7:37 pm

    @pat: In WI as far as I know they don’t even begin to count absentee ballots until election day.

    In normal operation, MD election law (MD Code 11-302) prohibits local boards of election from even opening mail-in/absentee ballots until 8 AM of the day after Election Day.

    This provision was superseded by GOV Hogan (GOP) in August by powers conferred after declaration of a state of emergency due to COVID-19. (Confirmed by the MD state AG, a Democrat.) IIUC counting is ongoing as we post.

    (ETA: MD election law needs to be revised to remove this prohibition when the General Assembly reconvenes next January.)

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